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April 22, 2024 41 mins

A police affidavit says Tifany Adams allegedly gave statements indicating she was responsible for the deaths of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley. 

Investigators now say they believe Butler and Jillian Kelley were lured to the location, arriving around  9:40 a.m. Besides the pools of blood, officers found Butler’s glasses on the ground near a broken hammer.  Police say they believe the women were forced into another vehicle.

Much information has been released in the probable cause affidavit, but not the women's cause of death. The bodies were found in a cattle pasture, leased by Tad Bert Cullum, the boyfriend of grandmother Tifany Adams. 

The location was narrowed down by cellphone data from three burner phones purchased by Adams. The phones first pinged at the location of Butler's abandoned car, the data then led police to the pasture property. Obvious signs of digging were discovered. A hole had been dug and filled back in. Inside the hole were the bodies of the missing women.

The motive, according to investigators, is custody of Butler’s two children: a custody battle has gone on for more than five years. Father Wrangler Rickman, Tifany Adam’s son, had custody of the children, but Rickman was confirmed to be in a rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City. 

 Veronica Butler’s custody arrangement allowed her supervised visitation with her children every Saturday. And reportedly, according to Butler’s attorney, she was likely to be granted unsupervised visitation during an upcoming hearing.

The affidavit states that  “Adams vehemently opposed this and went to great lengths to plan and purchase items used in Butler and Kelley’s murders,” It continues... “Adams, Cullum, Cole and Cora were willing to kidnap and murder two victims to limit visitation for Butler.”

Court documents allege that Adams and the other suspects tried to killer Butler once before in February.  Adams, her boyfriend, and the other couple drove to Butler’s home near Hugoton, Kansas, intending to kill her. A witness told investigators that the planned was to throw an anvil through Butler’s windshield while she was driving. They reasoned that it would look like an accident, but Butler did not leave her home.

As state investigators pulled information from Adams’ phone, it showed web searches for “taser pain level, gun shops, prepaid cellular phones, and how to get someone out of their house."  That’s also according to the probable cause documents. 

Adams reportedly purchased five stun guns before the women’s disappearances, according to the documents. She bought three prepaid, unregistered burner phones from a Walmart near her.  All the prepaid burners stopped transmitting the mornings the women went missing.

Joining Nancy Grace Today: 

  • Kelly Hyman- Trial & Civil Attorney, TV Legal Analyst, Podcast Host: "Once Upon a Crime In Hollywood", Twitter: @kellyhyman1, TikTok: @kelly.hyman, Instagram: @Kelly_Hyman1 
  • Sheryl McCollum  – Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Host of Podcast: “Zone 7;” X: @149Zone7
  • Irv Brandt – Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” – AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN JANUARY; ALSO “FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;” Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor
  • Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School
  • Lauren Conlin – Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of “Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news tonight Inside the
bloody ambush of two Kansas moms, says chilling new details
reveal how an evil mother in law lures the two
moms to their deaths using damning internet searches, burner phones,

(00:25):
stun guns, and a bulldozer.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
This is Crime Stories, and I want to thank you
for being with us.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Fifteen days after Veronica Butler and Jillian and Kelly are
reported missing, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation announces the
recovery of two bodies. The identity of the remains has
not been confirmed as of yet, but we do know
the remains have been sent to the Oklahoma Medical Examiner's
Office for identification as well as the cause and manner
of death.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
All that, all that, burner phones, taser, stune guns, bullets, weapons,
a bulldozer, damning internet searches. Why granny plots to kill
her own daughter in law so she could have custody

(01:13):
of the grandchildren? Really? Yes, that's what official documents are
revealing tonight Inside the investigation.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
But first, how did it all unfold?

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Listen the planned meeting place for Veronica Butler to pick
up her children. Was a closed gas station near the
intersection of Oklahoma State Highway ninety five and Rhodel. The
area is flat and desolate. There are no trees or
homes nearby, as well as no traffic cameras. This is
where Melissa and Joey Padilla, relatives of Veronica Butler, found
her car after the mom didn't arrive at a birthday

(01:47):
party for one of her children. The car was abandoned
and there were pools of blood nearby, so they called police.
Investigators now say they believe Butler and Jillian and Kelly
were lured to the location, arriving around nine forty am.
Besides the pools of blood, officers found Butler's glasses on
the ground near a broken hammer. Kelly's purse was also found.
Inside was a gun magazine, but no weapon. Police say

(02:11):
the women were forced into another vehicle. The women's phone
stop sending signals at nine forty two am and have
not been recovered.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Only that official court document seemingly reveal that this was
not their first attempt on the young mom with me
it all start panel to make sense of what we
are learning. Stunning and chilling details emerging for a straight
out to Lauren Conlin, investigative journalist's host off the Outlawyer podcast. Lauren,

(02:40):
thank you for being with us. You've been on the
case from the very beginning. I can't believe what I
am seeing in this affidavit. A granny, a killer granny.
Suspect uses a bulldozer guns, Lauren, what's happening?

Speaker 4 (02:58):
This is so tragic. It came out in these affidavits
that this was not the first attempt to take Veronica
Butler's life. They were planning to do something in February
where an anvil would go through her windshield, as this
was very common in the area. They would fall off
construction trucks, and.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
They believed, Okay, please tell me you aren't somehow a
victim of Stockholm syndrome because anvils don't just fall out
of the air into people's cars. I don't care where
it is, I mean, hold on right there. Cheryl McCollum
is joining me, founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
forensics Expert. As a matter of fact, she's joining me

(03:40):
right now from her squad car. Cheryl, host of a
Hitting You podcast, Zone seven. I know maybe in crazy
Granny's world. An anvil falling from the sky or off
a truck into the young mom's car sounds reasonable.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
It's it's not, Cheryl. It's not reasonable.

Speaker 5 (04:02):
It is not reasonable.

Speaker 6 (04:04):
You're talking about something that is so heavy there's no
way it's going to fall off a truck, and if
it does, it's simply going to land three feet onto
the pavement, not up five to six feet through her windshield.
So again, when you're talking about plotting and planting a
murder and your baseline is wiley coyote, you've got problems

(04:26):
from the get go. This was asinine at best.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Can I ask you something, Cheryl McCollum. I know you're
comparing them to a and their plan to a wily
coyote plot. But these two women are dead, six children
between them, and I don't care what anybody says, including
a shrink that will tell me how wrong I am.

(04:52):
There is nothing that can replace your mother.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Nothing, Amen.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
And it may be a far f fetched plan, it
may be, but these ladies are dead. Not just the
young mom who is her right there, just going to
throw a birthday party for her children. That's Veronica Butler,
just twenty seven years old. But then you've got the
other lady, the church secretary, preacher wife. She's dead too,

(05:21):
Jilly and Kelly in her thirties, the prime of her life.
She was just doing a ride along to facilitate the
visitation and the pickup of mom's babies, six children without
a mom. So I don't care how zany their plot is.
There were pools of blood left around this young mom's
car because in my mind of.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Killer Granny, may she wrot in hell.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
And let me point out, as Kelly Hyman will tell
me pretty quickly, they're innocent until proven guilty. And you
can all quit telling me that on Twitter. I know that,
I know they're not guilty yet, but I guarantee you
they will be because of a track A mile wide.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Isn't that riot, Lauren Comlin a mile wide?

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Tell me about the evidence we're learning out of this
warrant right here.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
Okay, So this is crazy. So first and foremost, they
got a search warrant on I believe it was March
thirty first for Tiffany Adams's phone. So they searched on
her phone, and they find searches that read taser pain level,
where to buy a gun at different gunshops in the area,

(06:36):
and then where to get prepaid cell phones, and then
how to get someone out of their house. Now in
the meantime, my boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Le, you know what, you're just like spouting all this
damning information like it's a fire hydrant, Lauren Comlin, too much,
too fast.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Okay, I'm drinking from the fire hydrant here.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
So you said, look the pain level of a taser.
That was the mother in law's to say, Google search,
she searched the pay level of a taser?

Speaker 4 (07:06):
She did, she searched.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Okay, I got to go now to an eminent guest
joining me, doctor Kendall Crowns. He is the chief medical
Examiner in Terrance County. That's Fort Worth near Dallas Lecturer University,
Texan Christian University Medical School, and he is joining us
right now from his office at the Medical Examiners. Doctor Crowns,

(07:31):
thank you for being with us. I had a good
friend at CNN who actually tasered himself, and a good
friend at Court TV that followed up on it to
make sure it really hurt.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
God rest his soul, Michael Christian.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
So doctor Kendle Crowns, tell me how a taser works
and this is what was the plan. This is the
plan to use on two unarmed moms. How does it
work and how badly does it hurt? Doctor Crowns.

Speaker 7 (08:04):
So, conductive electronic devices like taser work by injecting prongs
into your skin and then using these skins moisture to
conduct electricity across it and then send a large amount
of electricity into your body, basically shocking you. The shock

(08:24):
itself causes a tremendous amount of pain, causes you to
spasm and then collapse.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
See that's why I have to work with you so
much before I could put you on the stand. Conductive
electronic device? What are you talking about? Can you dumb
me down for me? Please just say it? Regular people
talk how a taser works and the amount of pain.

(08:50):
What can we compare it.

Speaker 7 (08:51):
To conductive electronic devices? Is what a taser is? Taser
themselves prefer you call it a conductive electronic device, because
not all conductive electronic devices are tasers. It's like a
xerox machine is a copier, et cetera. So it is
basically electricity being forced into your body, high amounts of electricity.

(09:14):
It'd be like you putting a fork into a wall socket.
You get the same kind of experience from that, except
the wall socket doesn't cause as much electricity to go
through you as a taser does.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
As a general rule, a taser start with the baseline
a fifty thousand vaults of electricity. Fifty thousand volts of electricity.
What does that mean, doctor Kendall Crowns.

Speaker 7 (09:42):
That's the high amount of electricity. It's higher than basically
your standard current in your house. So it's a large
amount of electricity being put into your body all at once.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Just think about it. Think about it, Cheryl McCollum, This
evil mother in law was prepared to use fifty thousand
vaults of electricity minimum on the victims, in this case,
two unarmed women. She didn't care if she caused that
amount of pain, and Cheryl, think about it. Forget the taser.

(10:16):
They were gunned down. I think they were shot dead.

Speaker 6 (10:20):
But let's talk even more basic in the beginning. You've
got four people and two women. It doesn't take a
taser to control them. If you ambushed two unsuspecting victims
with four people, you're gonna be able to control them
fairly easily.

Speaker 5 (10:38):
I believe that the stun gun was for torture.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Wow, I hadn't even thought of that. Crime stories with
Nancy Grace joining me right now.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Kelly Hyman, trial lawyer and now civil lawyer joining us
out of Miami. Also legal analyst and host of Once
Upon a Crime in Hollywood. Kelly Hymen, I mean, this gang,
which they call themselves God's Misfits, have left a.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Trail a mile wide.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
The State's going to have a field day with this.

Speaker 8 (11:22):
This is a horrible story for these young kids to
lose their mother.

Speaker 9 (11:27):
And we always when we look at things is why
do people do this? What was their motive behind this?
What was their reasoning behind this? That's key, And allegedly
they were in some big family dispute, bitter dispute that
left these beautiful kids without a mother. Ultimately, Nancy, as
you said, you are innocent until proven guilty. But there

(11:49):
is allegedly a lot of evidence coming out that's going
to make a strong case for the state.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
I need to bring up the innocent until proven guilty part.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
What more do we know?

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Oh, guys straight out to Lauren Colin, guns, bulldozers, tasers,
stun guns.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
What more do we know, Lauren?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
And all of this is to take out two innocent,
unarmed mothers.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yes, let me stop you. There have been no guns found,
just stun guns. So this is actually really interesting, and
I'm a bit confused. I came across I think it
was yesterday or the day before. It was on an
outlet called the Oklahomaan, and you have to pay for
a lot of these articles. I did not pay, but

(12:38):
I did find a little snippet where the medical examiner said,
I don't believe they were a shot. And I'm going
through all of these affidavits, the arrest affadavits, all the
probable cause, and I don't see any guns. And as
Dave Max said, you know, Jillian Kelly had a pistol
magazine in her purse, but there were no guns. So
all we have here is burner phones and stun guns.

(13:01):
And then we have the equipment that I was going
to get to. So Tad Cullum, Tiffany's boyfriend, he rented
some land about eight miles away from where their vehicle
was initially found Veronica and Gillian's, and he rented equipment
like bulldozers and all these these names that my son
would know, skid steers. He'd be much better than I

(13:23):
am at this and he ends up digging a hole
in this property and then covering it with hay. And
this area is the last place where the women's phones
were actually pinged this area, and the property owner, I
believe his name is Jamie Beasley, he had no idea
what was going on. So when authorities, you know, send
all those trucks to get to get the women, to

(13:47):
get the bodies, once they get the tip, he's crying.
He's like, oh my gosh, I had no idea and
just in complete and utter shock. So I think it's
safe to say we really don't know the manner of
death that or how these women died.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Joining me, Cheryl McCollum, founder director, Cold Case Research Institute
and forensics expert. Cheryl, I can see all the digital
fingerprint footprint adding up placing the moms at this location
and coincidentally the same location where the burner phones were
turned off.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
But I want to talk about.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
The mag the magazine, the gun magazine found in one
of the victims purses. There's no indication that either of
the victims had a gun. And when I say a magazine,
I'm talking about a mag not a clip. A mag
feeds arounds into the gun chamber as it's being fired.
So what do you make of a mag being found?

Speaker 6 (14:46):
Not verified? A lot of information. They're playing this close
to the vest, which they should. But let's say you
are going with somebody to beat you know, ex family
members that they've been fighting with for nine years. Maybe
somebody gave her something to, you know, protect herself. We
don't know if this was her, you know, potential partible

(15:08):
weapon or perpetrate.

Speaker 5 (15:10):
We don't know yet. And you know, all we do
know is.

Speaker 6 (15:14):
There pools of blood at the seat, broken hammer. So
was somebody shot, was somebody hit in the head, blood
force trauma?

Speaker 5 (15:22):
We don't know yet.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Guys, we are learning that a minor, we believe it
to be a teen girl.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Has turned informant.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Take a listen to this.

Speaker 10 (15:35):
The teenager told police that she had heard conversation among
the adults that Adam's grandchildren were at risk when they
were with Butler. She told investigators that Adams had provided
Burner phones so that personal devices were not needed to communicate.
The girl said she had seen two of the phones
charging on her mother's nightstand the day before the murders.

(15:57):
Adam's boyfriend column forty three, had asked the owner of
the property he rented if he could do some work there.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
With his kids.

Speaker 10 (16:05):
Seer a kind of bulldozer. According to the owner's conversation
with police, Colum reportedly said he wanted to cut down
a tree, remove a stump, and bury some concrete. The
teen said she heard that her mother and stepfather block
the road, diverting the women to where the others were waiting.
When asked why Kelly had to die, her mother reportedly

(16:27):
said because Kelly supported Butler. She wasn't innocent. The child
asked Cora Twombly if they had put the bodies in
a well. She was told something like.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
That, Wow, it's always difficult to put a child on
the stand during a jury trial, but sometimes you have to.
This teen girl revealing so much of what was going
on in the home before the murders. In the home
of the suspects, straight back out to Lauren Colin, joining

(16:57):
US investigative journalist and host of The Outline. So, a
skid steer is a kind of bulldozer. Where were the
two moms bodies found?

Speaker 4 (17:09):
So they were found by a dam in that rented
area of the property. So I'm assuming that they were
somewhat covered by this hay and the fresh dirt. I
believe they called it the soil, and they were easy
to find. I also I want to point something out
as well, Nancy. Her the witness, Cora told her or

(17:34):
her daughter, whoever the witness was, that things didn't go
according to plan. This mission did not go according to plan.
So I don't know exactly what that means, but I
have a hunch it has something to do with a
possible fitth suspect that hasn't been arrested.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
But that's just my team joining me right now.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Former US Marshall Service International Investigations Branch, author of Flying
Solo on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Irvbrandt joining US Irvbrandt.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Did you hear what Lauren Colin just said, and I've
read it in the official court dogs that this gang
God's misfits said they were on a mission. They call
murdering these two young moms a mission?

Speaker 2 (18:22):
What a mission from hell?

Speaker 11 (18:24):
That's exactly what it was, Nancy. These people are obviously deranged.
They're not criminal masterminds. They had a previous murder plan
that didn't come didn't pan out. Then they go into
this elaborate plan using stun guns and a bulldozer, but

(18:46):
they leave a trail a mile wide for police investigators
to follow. Nancy, I've never seen anything like this. They
might as well have written out a confession and signed
it and sent it to the police Earlier.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
I think we heard Cheryl McCollum compared it to Wiley
Coyote their plot, and I admonished her because we've got
two dead moms. But actually it does sound like something
out of the Apple Dumpling Gang, except nobody ever died
in those movies where they've been watching way too many
movies with the burner phones and the rendezvous point and

(19:25):
the bull I mean, how much more obvious can it
be or a brand than to rent a bulldozer or
to bring over your bulldozer Mancia.

Speaker 11 (19:35):
I mean, I can't even give you a reasonable explanation
for their line of thinking of This is just not
It's like Cheryl Max said, it's something out of a
cartoon trying to drop an acme anvil on their head.
I don't know where these people came up with their ideas.

(19:56):
When they started researching it online, bounced to you know
someone saying, well, I want to poison someone. Then doing it,
you know, researching and on their computer, then ordering poison
off of Amazon.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
To carry out the murder.

Speaker 11 (20:13):
I can't give you an explanation, Nancy, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
The team told police that she was told that her
mother and stepfather would be gone that Saturday. When the
team woke up, she was told they were going to
be on a mission, and as she was told, the
Twembleys were not home when she woke up around ten am.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
She says.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
The couple came back around noon in their pickup and
a flatbed pickup owned by a relative. The teen says
she was told to clean the interior of the Chevrolet pickup.
When she asked what had happened, she was told the
meetings had not gone as plan, but that they would
not have to worry about Butler again. At the same
time that the twembles arrived home, Tiffany Adams went to
pick up her grandchildren at the home of the other

(20:52):
couple who hosted God's Misfits meetings.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
The affidavit said, joining me in all Star panel, Cheryl McCollum,
did you hear that.

Speaker 6 (20:59):
They their own vehicle, They used their own computer, They
use their own cell phones to send text message. They
spoke in front of witnesses again for four people to
plot and plan, they made such severe mistakes.

Speaker 5 (21:15):
I agree with her.

Speaker 6 (21:16):
They might as well have just done a confession from
the get go, because it was obvious who did it.
You and I talked todaycy about you know, the victims
left a town of twelve hundred people to go to
a town of two hundred and eighty one people.

Speaker 5 (21:29):
Your respect pool was people right off the bat.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
According to the witness that has emerged, this teen girl
was told the mother, her I guess boyfriend, and two
others who claim to be quote God's misfits were on
a quote mission I'm reading from the affidavit. They were
going to be on a mission. She woke up around

(21:56):
ten am. They all came back around noon, the defendants
in a pickup and a flatbed owned by a relative,
and she, the teen girl, was told to clean the
interior of the Chevrolet pickup.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
What does that mean to me?

Speaker 1 (22:15):
That means that at least one of these mothers was
transported to a burial site in the Chevy pickup. When
the girl asked what happened, she was told things had
quote not gone as planned, but they would never have
to worry about Butler, that being.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Twenty seven year old mom Veronica Butler.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Again, at the same time, Tiffany Adams goes to pick
up the grandchildren elsewhere another cope, another couple's home who
hosted God's Misfits meetings.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
What does that say to me?

Speaker 1 (22:50):
That tells me out to Kelly Hyman, a veteran trial lawyer,
that there are other people, the ones that were babysitting
the children during all this, that knew about the plan
and they are going to be states witnesses along with
this team girl. As if I don't have enough information
and enough evidence anyway, now these babysitters, the other God's Misfits,

(23:16):
they're going to be witnesses or they could always be
charged for aiding and a betting, and I don't think
they want to go to the pen for that.

Speaker 8 (23:23):
I think Nancy, we are just at the tip of
the iceberg on this, and you bring up a really
good point. Yes, So if people overheard this, they could
potentially be the state's witness and what that means is
they will testify in the trial of saying what they've
heard or potentially if they could potentially be charged with
aiding and betting and assisting in this in fact, if

(23:44):
they don't, if they help assist with.

Speaker 9 (23:47):
This murder and stuff like that. So it'll be interesting
to see what transpires in the coming next days and
who turns as a state witness or potentially are there
going to be additional charges for people who will or
heard stuff and were potentially involved in this as well.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Back to doctor Kendall Crowns joining us out of Chartt
County for were from the Medical Examiner's Office DOTR. Crown's again,
thank you for being with us. We're trying to determine
whether the manner of death was shooting or stabbing. I
know the bodies had been buried haphazardly, would you be

(24:25):
able to tell and how the manner and cause of death?

Speaker 7 (24:28):
Certainly you'd be able to determine the cause of death
based on the injury patterns even though they had been buried.
It won't take away the damage to the body, especially
to the skeletal system kind of, and then the manner
of death would be fairly easy. The fact that they've
been buried out in the middle of nowhere, They're obviously
been killed, so it's going to be a homicide. So

(24:52):
determining between gunshot wounds, stabbings or beatings. It would just
be looking at the injury patterns on the body based
on the information you already had, pools of blood, broken hammer,
the fact that they were talking about using an anvil
in the first place makes me feel like they've probably
beaten these individuals to death using a hammer after they
stunned them.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Okay, you know, doctor Kimmel Crowns, I understand what you're saying. Now.
You believe there's a very strong potential of the two
victims being beaten dead with a hammer.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
And why do you say that?

Speaker 7 (25:26):
Because there's a broken hammer at the scene, there's pools
of blood, and they have been talking about doing blunt
force trauma to the individuals in the first place using
an anvil, So it doesn't sound like they had planned
to use guns all along, that they kind of planned
to use blunt force trauma. So it makes me think
that they use the stun guns to kind of subdue
them and then just beat them to death with a hammer.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
You know, doctor Kendall Crowns, I was thinking gun because
of the amount of blood pools of blood there, and
I attributed the hammer handle to breaking the windshield because
a witness stated she had driven by. It was around
ten am. The mom's left for their journey of forty

(26:13):
five minute drive around nine am, and at ten am
a female witness drives by and sees their vehicle and
sees a window on the driver's side bust it out. Now,
I attributed the discovery of the hammer handle to breaking
out the window, but your theory makes a lot more

(26:37):
sense to me. Plus, I'm not hearing about any guns
being registered to the defendants, although I find that really
hard to believe. But that said, what about it, Cheryl McCollum.

Speaker 6 (26:48):
As to why the glasses will be on the ground
large pools of blood? Nobody in the vicinity heard a
gunshot it also, would you know? To me goes back
to my theory. They were tortured. This was anger. She
didn't look up stundum, she looked up the pain level.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
This was very personal.

Speaker 6 (27:10):
They have been fighting for almost a decade over those
children and they were attacked. I'm going to say it again,
this didn't take four people. This was a deliberate gang ambush.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Killer Granny's suspects, bloody ambush on two unarmed Kansas moms
on their way to a children's birthday party, and they
apparently used tasers, burner phones, even a bulldozer to affect
their plan. Joining me an all star panel. You were
just hearing Cheryl McCollum. But now to Lauren Conlin, the

(27:48):
investigative journalist's host of the Outlier podcast. I want to
hear what you have to say about the use of
the hammer as the murder weapon. But also I found
some thing buried in the affidavit and I found this
really interesting. I want everybody on the panel to jump in.
We find out that three prepaid cellular phones were purchased

(28:11):
from Walmart in Oklahoma back on Feb thirteen. That's how
long they've been planning this since Feb thirteen. This is
what I found really interesting. All three of the burner
phones were powered on and access cellular network for the
first time at Colum's residents. So Ellie law enforcement can

(28:39):
identify the first time these idiots turned on the burner
phone is basically inside their own home.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Ding dong.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
They couldn't figure out that they are leaving a digital trail.
They're turning on the cellular phones that were used to
orchestrate this double murder. They turn it on for the
first time in or near their own home. I mean,
they need to go back and watch Ocean's eleven all

(29:12):
over again.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Lauren Colin, you were jumping in. What were you saying?

Speaker 6 (29:16):
Well, I can.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Provide some context to this as well, because while they
appear to be extremely dumb criminals, obviously, I think there's
an element to this, right, the farm element. I don't
think that it's out of the ordinary that he would
rent farm equipment or dig holes xyz. But using your
own cell phones and turning these cell phones, these burner

(29:39):
phones on at your own house. This goes to the
fact that Tiffany Adams is actually very connected in that town.
She runs and is responsible for the Simmern County GOP.
She's their chair, she was a former school board chair.
She knows the sheriff's office. I mean, I think there
was a cool where she had said, you know, I

(30:01):
know the path the judge takes to work. She knows everybody,
and I believe that she thinks that she is untouchable
and people don't necessarily want to talk. The one judge
that did speak, he was forced to resign the next day.
So it's really interesting and I think that this woman,
in particular, Tiffany Adams, she holds a type of power

(30:22):
that we are just going to be learning about.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Well, you know what that calls for a change of venue.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
That won't be hard.

Speaker 12 (30:30):
You know.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
I'm still looking very carefully at this, Adma, David, and
I want everybody to weigh in on this. The whole
dug about two hundred yards below of dam fell back
in and covered with Hey, I mean you could probably
see that with a drive over from a helicopter. For

(30:50):
Pete's sake, did they not think cops are going to
find that? I mean, our brandt. I've seen many many homicides.
I've investigated many, tried many, covered many. But this is
a plethora a Pandora's box of evidence.

Speaker 11 (31:09):
Nancy, That's exactly right. Like you, I've been doing this
all my adult life, and I have never seen a
case probably easier to solve, easier to prove. When we
take it to you, as the prosecuting attorney, you'd look

(31:31):
at us and say, you've got to be kidding me.
You know, I can't believe this. Whereas did they videotape
themselves committing the crime? Did they post it on social media.
They did just about everything else imaginable, you know, to
say they did it, the confessions got to be forthcoming.

(31:51):
I would imagine the.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Police crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me, high profile lawyer,
very familiar with the case. Kelly, I want you to
take a listen to this.

Speaker 10 (32:14):
The motive, according to investigators, is custody of Butler's two children.
A custody battle has gone on for more than five years.
Father wrangler Rickman, Tiffany Adams's son, was awarded custody of
the children, but Rickman was confirmed to being in a
rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of the murders.

(32:34):
For Veronica, Butler's custody arrangement allowed her supervised visitation with
her children every Saturday, and reportedly, according to Butler's attorney,
she was likely to be granted unsupervised visitation during an
upcoming hearing the Affadavid states that Adams vehemently opposed this
and went to great links to plan and purchase items

(32:56):
used in Butler and Kelly's murders. It continues Adam, Cullam, Cole,
and Cora were willing to kidnap and murder two victims
to limit visitation for Butler.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
And isn't it true guys who were talking about Adams
were talking about Tiffany Michelle Adams age fifty four, who
is the alleged evil mother in law.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Her who plotted this.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
It seems to think that she's the political boss of
the county. I got needs for her political boss or no,
she's going down because of her own actions, and its
seemingly straight back out to Lauren Colin or anybody. Cheryl McCollum,
you may know the answer to this. It seems as
if earlier there were plans to take out a judge.

(33:45):
Another relative was concerned about the custody issue and was
told that no need for concern't they would not have
to worry about the custody battle much longer because and
I'm quoting from the affidavit, Adam, that's the grandma, the
mother in law quote had it under control that she

(34:05):
knew the path the judge walked to work and would
take out Veronica at the drop off, take out Veronica
at the drop off. What about that?

Speaker 5 (34:20):
Tell it on herself. She has told on herself.

Speaker 6 (34:24):
I think for the last nine years, I think there's
probably been threats all over creation.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
And let me tell you the most streaking thing for me.

Speaker 6 (34:32):
This woman, the ex mother in law, cannot stand Veronica.
She has made that clear. Veronica's no good for the children.
They're not safe with her. She probably doesn't cook and clean,
she doesn't take care of them. They're only you know, okay,
when they're in her custody. When Veronica did not meet
except the children up, especially on the daughter's birthday, remember

(34:57):
it was her birthday, you would have been the first person,
Tiffany would have been the first person call of the court.

Speaker 5 (35:05):
Saying she's in contempt. I told y'all she was no good.

Speaker 6 (35:08):
I've got these children sitting here crying because their mama
didn't show up.

Speaker 5 (35:12):
Is this baby's birthday? When she didn't do that, she
didn't make that call, pitching a fence. That told me
right there she's involved.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Is nobody worried about discussion of killing a judge pops
up in the affidavit because I'm looking right at it
that we don't have to worry about custody anymore. Because Adams,
that would be the mother in law, Tiffany Adams quote
knew the path the judge walked to work. I mean

(35:43):
Cheryl McCollum, and I'm the only one seeing that. Were
they going to kill a judge too?

Speaker 6 (35:48):
It is telling you the links that she was gonna
go to Nancy. Nothing was gonna stop her from keeping
those children away from Veronica. She was going to have
every possible avenue stopped so that she could have these children.

Speaker 5 (36:07):
Nancy.

Speaker 6 (36:08):
She's supposedly so connected to the courts and to the police,
but she has refused to go by any of the
court's order. They've basically made her bulletproof for years. She
has stopped the mama from seeing them for years. She
has refused to do what the court tells her to do.
And when it looked for her that she could no
longer prow the court or the victim, she killed her.

Speaker 5 (36:31):
That's how it looks, plain and simple.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
There is the death penalty in Oklahoma, Kelly Hyman. There
have to be special aggravating circumstances in order for a
prosecutor to seek a death penalty, and those have to
be clearly enunciated far.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Prior to trial. In writing.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
There has to be an announcement the state is going
to seek the death penalty, and there is a very
limited number of aggravating circumstances that will suffice. However, more
than one body is one of those aggravating circumstances.

Speaker 8 (37:09):
Ultimately that will be up to the state to make
a determination on whether they believe that they can bring
it based on the facts and evidence of the case.

Speaker 9 (37:18):
But there is a lot of evidence that is coming out,
and Nancy, to your point about the alleged about the judge,
that is very very disconcerting because judges are the ones
that preside over the case and they're the ones that
make determinations, and so the fact that there is allegations
of harming a judge, which is very disconcerting and very upsetting.

Speaker 12 (37:41):
But ultimately, no one, no matter who you are, is
above the law, and people need to be held accountable
and ultimately that will be up to the jury of
whether they're innocent or guilty in this case too.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Our brand joining us former US Marshal Service and author
IRV to thank all. This was over what every other
weekend or Wednesday to Saturday versus Thursday to Saturday visitations.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
And you know the so.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Called evil mother in law, evil granny killer suspect. She's
the mother of the bio dad, so she would have
access to the grandchildren every time he had visitation or
you know, share custody. So if he got the children
half the time, she would have access to the children

(38:31):
half of their lives.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
And in a divorce, you know, for a lot of people,
that's pretty good visitation.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
And all of this over what a few days a month, Nancy, I.

Speaker 11 (38:45):
Don't think the time had anything to do with it.
I think to this woman, this was obviously about control,
and she wanted complete control of who was going to
see those children, and when they were going to see
those children, and what the circumstances were going to be.

(39:06):
And she wasn't even going to allow a judge to
dictate to her how to take care of these children,
because she said it, she'll take that judge out. She
knows his path to the courthouse. So no, Nancy, it
makes no sense other than the fact that the woman

(39:27):
was wanted complete control over every action concerning those children.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
To doctor Kendall Crowns, Doctor Kendall Crowns, your theory that
a hammer was used to bludgeon the women dead, most
likely about.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
The face and the head.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
The pain they would have endured preceding their death would
have been unbearable, correct.

Speaker 7 (39:53):
I mean if these being tased or shocked with the
electronic devices or electric devices, then being beaten with a hammer.
Hammer isn't really efficient to kill someone because it's hard
to break the skull with a hammer, so they would
have to continually strike them multiple times, eventually fracturing the
head and then getting into the brain cavity. The other

(40:17):
thing you have to consider is the fact that they
could have been hit with the hammer, knocked unconscious, and
then placed into the grave and then covered with the dirt,
still being alive but unconscious, so then dying by being
buried alive as well. So there's a couple of ways
of going out in this case.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Would a medical examination of their lungs determine if they
were buried alive, their lungs, their nasal pastes in their mouths.

Speaker 7 (40:43):
Their mouths and their nose could have inhaling the dirt.
It wouldn't probably get as deep as the lungs it could,
but you would see that the fact that they were
inhaling or gulping at the dirt after they were buried.
So that is something that can be found at autopsy.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Two unarmed and a mothers dead.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
We wait as justice unfolds, and now we stop to
remember American hero agent Eliezer Ramos Valez, just thirty five,
shot in the line of duty, leaving behind his beloved
fiancee and infant son, Malcolm. American hero agent Elie iSER

(41:25):
Ramos Valez. I want to thank all of our guests
for being with us tonight, but especially to you for
being with us tonight and every night. Nancy Gray signing off,
good night friend.
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