Odessa Jenkins

Odessa Jenkins is the CEO of the Women's National Football Conference and her passion for women playing tackle football professionally even got Steve fired up. Speaking of fired up, we also learn why Agent 89 had to go cold turkey on his boxing sessions with G.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is cut to It with Steve Smith Senior at
production of The Black Effect and I heart Radio. I'm
Steve Smith Senior and I'm a little John and this
is cut to it. Good do it, Good do Let's
getting down to do it. Good do it. We asked
the questions you always want to know, but no one

(00:23):
ever asked, let's cut to it. You heard them about it,
then we're about to let you know. It's all we
got that. We gotta get this cut to it podcast.

(00:47):
Good morning, Steve, afternoon. And it depends on when. It
depends on where you are geographically. Let's not limit our
folks just to the United States. Were trying to do
this thing. We gotta get international, international, different zip voice
sound internationally in another country that the voiceover do they
do a voiceover? You want the truth or you want

(01:08):
the lie? I want the lie? Oh Man. A matter
of fact, speaking of lies, UM, I remember like two
or three years ago, right after right after you it retired, men,
you started taking some some boxing lessons and we were
fresh you, we were working, we were working out, and

(01:30):
I probably told myself a lot that uh I was,
I was in shape, but it was real tough, and
it got us into good conditioning and you know, built
up some mass and all that stuff. But one thing
I remember us talking about was it's starting to build
up that competitive spin. We literally had to stop whole turkey.

(01:53):
We really had the shot because you were starting to
get back into almost football. So we started working out.
That was It was about a year after I was
done playing. I retired. I had a full year. I
didn't want to work out, and I told him I
didn't want to work out. And because of around January February,
late February is always in my career where I would

(02:15):
start slowly start working out, and so my body was
starting to get you so like, hey, this round. There's
times and I started boxing, I felt and you can tell.
And in the first time, I, oh, man, I was
out of shape. And the second and third time I started,
you was over there like and I'm over there, like

(02:35):
let's go. And I started like getting into it, and
my body started waking up and my body said this
to me, Oh, I know time, this is, I'm familiar
with it. I love this time. And I can't even
tell my language how I was talking was starting to change.
My wife has always telling me, I know when football
seasons back up because you start cursing a little bit more, slipping,

(02:59):
the slip of the tongue, and I just started to
feel my body started. I used to have goose bunks
going in there. I started to feel like looking forward,
we're looking forward this ball time. This is this is
aging eighty nine time where it started to build that
persona of that anger. And even though it's a completely
different sport, it didn't matter. My body said I know

(03:19):
this time, and I'm ready for this time. And I
have been hybrid nating and I am ready. And I
started and we had to stop because I was like, man,
this isn't good. And I can feel myself kind of
asking what I mean, I could I'm possible. I mean
I'm feeling good. I still got the wiggle on the hips, okay.
And we had to stop and and it's it's real silly,

(03:43):
and somebody would be like, yeah, whatever, it really happened,
and I had to and and I didn't realize the
sixteen years of what I was training my mind and
body to how to respond to there. It literally I
was creating seasons within my body. It's just just football season.

(04:07):
We need to get ready for football season sixteen years
of mid February, pretty much right after Valentine's Day, I
would start working out with my trainer and that's when
we started, right after our bowling event for the Foundation,
and that's when I started to feel. So it lasted
probably about a month or two and I said, man,
I gotta stop this because I was really starting to

(04:28):
get that itch. But what's crazy is I didn't want
that itch. So would you say, you're just you just
mentally have that in YouTube where when you now, I don't.
Over time it faded at that point in time. It's
more of a mental thing to where you being a
professional athlete, you're just I guess ingrained or you're just
it's just it's just in you. Well that's where it called,

(04:49):
you know, mastering your craft, and so it mastering your craft.
It's not just learning how to run a go route,
running how to beat beat press coverage or beat or
runner slant. It's all so the psychological part of it.
It is the new or holistic meaning everything you know
you're pro in the mental yet so playing on the

(05:10):
football field, reacting is just sometimes you can just rely
on your shoulders down. Mitch means that athleticism my god
given talent. And then there's the shoulders above that you
have to always sharpen and always have to be uh

(05:30):
grinding through and processing. That is all year long that
you're always doing. And I realized that that I had
started to start to spark the waste that the shoulders
down part, and then the shoulders up was saying, hey, bro,

(05:51):
we ain't supposed to be doing this. You know, it's
like the little It's like the good guy on the
shoulders and the other guy. Yeah, eat that dope nut.
It's gonna be so delicious. Smith good, Smithy, Bastmithy, eat
that doughnut. Bassman is like, you're gonna earl in boxing tomorrow, right,

(06:11):
And I earled in boxing right, So you know. So
that part is good and and good and bad. But yeah,
that that that happened. Yeah, I mean and we number one,
you left a brother hanging. I ain't gonna forget that
because I'm just showing. I show up and I think
you text me He's like, Bro, I'm done, and I'm
And we had that conversation before that you were thinking

(06:32):
about coming back, but I'm thinking you just talking now.
This brother was done, like done, done, stopped like I
think I went maybe two or three more weeks and
then you were literally done. You had to just shut
it down. I literally had to stop. I had to
stop working out after not working out completely for a year.
Like when I say not working out, I mean not

(06:52):
working like this brother really was thinking about coming back.
I started, I thought, I started like when I was
pulling up the hair on my forearms and the back
of my next started crawling up like it would when
they were sitting singing the national and they singing for
me when they sung the national anthem. The next time

(07:13):
was putting in my mouth piece, putting in my helmet,
kick ass time, knocking on the and I was getting
that feeling right like, this is not a good feeling.
I tried. That was only I had the cold turkey right.
I had to stop. So, ladies and gentlemen, I almost

(07:33):
brought Steve Smith out of retirement that close you did,
so holds our guest. Today coming up on the cut
to a podcast, We've got Odessa Jenkins, the CEO of
the Women's National Football Conference, a former NFL coaching intern
with the Atlanta Falcons, and she's a two time USA
national Women's football champion Odessa Jenkins coming up on cut

(07:54):
to a podcast. I'm jittery, I'm excited. It's like game day.
I can't even. I can't even. Don't don't be. Don't
get caught at a lot of scrimmage when that quick
jam come up on you. Oh no, I'm you're talking
to two hundred plus touchdowns in my career. I don't,
I don't get jam. What's on you? Yeah? About five

(08:22):
hundred folks. Well, Osa, you've done all that, You've done
all this, called all these touchdowns right now, you're about
to get iced up. It's our second where we have
a series of questions. They may or may not have
follow up. It just depends on how we feel and
how you answer and how you answer absolutely, and so
we'll get it right to us. So smart ahead and
give her the first one. This tells me a lot

(08:43):
about you, old Dessa, lets me know your character and
also can I rocks with you long term? Favorite movie
of all time? M hm mm hmm works, gum, we've
a lot. Yeah, I'm going Forced Gump And why is

(09:10):
because I think it goes through um so much adversity
and because of where I come from. I was born
into adversity and and have learned to transition it. I
think into fuel. And I think it goes through telling,
you know, Bubba's story, because not just forces story is

(09:31):
bubba story, is Jenny's story. It's the story of a
black man, a white woman who suffered abuse to a
black or a white man who was disabled. Like it
just goes to the story of a mother and her child.
So I just think it goes through a lot of
different things that a lot of the world can relate to.
But more than anything, it it's about somebody who refused

(09:53):
to stop competing. M hm, well, I love that and WHI.
I always like asking someone, if you really want to
know someone, ask them what their favorite movie is and
why quick story. I had a button in the locker
room one time. I cannot say his name because then
I would lose all respect that I basically pained him
on our podcast, but he said, I said, man, what

(10:15):
it was when Narnia was coming out? Memory Narnia was
out and uh, I said, man, what do you think?
He said, Man? That lion he was a beast like
can go the jungle bro. It's a symbolism of Jesus,
but it's basically a symbolism of God and all he

(10:38):
took it is man. That line was a beast smooth
overs in. I don't ask him for a reference of
any movies ever. Again. Manifest himself into things that that
so that people can understand it. Right, But this dude
totally missed it. This is a pretty good one, and

(10:59):
this is gonna throw you off track, but I love
it and I can't wait to hear from me because
you sound so well rounded, just the way he gave
us an answer FM forced cump. You're heading off to
a desert island. Don't worry about why you're heading off.
Just roll with me. You're heading off to a desert island.
What do you pack? And why are those items essential?
I pack a knife, okay, pocket knife for like a switchblade?

(11:24):
Um a pocket knife? I pack? I pack a pocket knife.
Are you dead? Keep going? I pack uh a pot?
Um so something that allows me to collect water. I'm
a show that I'm like skinning an all clad pot,
like a good a good Williams Sonoma. You know, I'm

(11:46):
not as rich as Hue, So that was a privilege,
and that was a privilege desert Like, Hey, they're good.
Pause bro listen, no stick. You ain't got no margarine
out there saying everybody's non sticking. I'm rocking with your dads.
I thought the same thing, listen, you know, but yeah,

(12:07):
some gotta buy something the whole water in and then
something to start fire with, and definitely some good reading materials.
So I'm it's it's crazy because I'm e collected with that.
So I either go with a Bible or a sports illustrated.
I'm struggling. I don't know if I want to, like
depends on the day. Yeah, so yeah, but definitely something

(12:28):
to read. But that's what I would going with. So
it's just a duffel bag or carry on, Um, it
is a Duffel bag. Good, okay, all right, we go
with that one last one guilty pleasure? What's your guilty pleasure?
No one knows that you you know you enjoyed partaking
on as far as food that you know. It's a

(12:48):
Friday night. Ain't nobody looking. You had a great week,
you you you didn't have any cheap days, and you're
just sitting there. You're going You're going there, You're gonna
refrigerate or the close at the snack bag you like
I need one of these honey bun. You know. So
I grew up in watts Is how central. We used
to go to the corner store and they had penny candy. Now,

(13:11):
might be aging myself. Yeah, you get the candy ladies.
Her name is Ethel. He's my mom's best friend. It's
it's always a relative to Yeah. So you go there
and you get your candy, but the honey bun and
thrown it in the microwave for ten seconds. Your microwave
was it a dial where you turn it clockwise or

(13:31):
to the numbers, like you know you had just got
not it ain't just got just got not um maybe
back in the day. But I got a really nice
microwave now and I and I eat it with a
fork to make it seem like I'm feeling I'm made
it in like you now, I'm privileged plastic Oh no

(13:52):
silverware from William and said, no, look at you. You're
gonna make fun to me. Let's get into it. Where
are you from and what is the place you call
your hometown? Yeah, I'm from South central Los Angeles, so California.

(14:14):
So I grew up mostly on ninety nine in San Pedro.
We spent most of our time there, but we moved
around a lot. I lived everywhere around San Pedro. Basically
we've lived in every I lived in every South Central
housing apartment, so I lived in Nickinson Gardens, all of them,
the Pj's, um, you know, so Perro Courts, the Jordan Downs. Um.

(14:38):
We spent a lot of time. So I spent a
lot of time all over the city. Um. But yeah,
south Central l As is my hometown. What did you
experience uh growing up in South Central I you know,
everybody sees it differently. I had a great childhood. Um.
Like I said, a lot of adversity, but a lot
of people who who loved me. Room where I am today.

(15:02):
I think that my parents saw something special to me.
My dad was a contractor, so he did construction work.
Didn't graduate, you know, elementary school. I don't think. I
think he went to the fourth grade. My mom um
was a hustle like. He always worked two and three jobs,
and my my mom and dad were always into something, uh,

(15:25):
trying to bring home money. I come from a big
family and so we had a lot of loss, a
lot of tragedy. So my grandmother has ten children, eight
girls and two boys. My sister has ten children um
eight girls, eight boys and two girls. My mother has four,

(15:48):
So we have a couple of hundred. We got a
lot of people in my family. It's a gigantic grandmother
had On my mom's side, my mom is one of thirteen.
Oh and each one of them has had so me
between my my mom, myself, and my children is sixty
five of us. Goodness gracious. And my mom was the

(16:11):
oldest of ten. My mom was the oldest of ten
and she had four in our own and uh, like
I said, so growing up, I saw I lost my
my my oldest brother was murdered in um to gang violence,
and so that was that was really tough. I recently
lost a nephew too, similar, So I saw a lot
of loss, but saw a lot of a lot of

(16:33):
gang My family has done a really great job. Now
we got kids graduating college, going on and traveling the world,
starting companies. On the phone with senior, I don't know,
life is life is good. How did those things that
you experience growing up, how did they shape you and
more importantly impact your your view on the world today. Yeah,

(16:56):
I think that going through so first, having a big
family as you need. You come from a big family,
so you know, um, you learn really fast, especially as
one of the younger kids, to kind of suck it up.
You know, when you fall down off of something, there
ain't marry nobody they're saying, oh, you know, let's go
all get It's like, hey, you need to get up

(17:16):
so we can keep this thing moving. Um. So I
think growing up and being one of the younger members
of the family, the youngest of my immediate family, I
learned really early that, um, you shouldn't be looking for
anybody to pick you up. UM. You you got to
do your part. You have to pull your weight, um.
And that that has helped me. I think through everything

(17:38):
that I've seen as an adult. You know, I'm in
women's tackle football, and so it's a market where a
lot of people say, there's no money, there's no interest.
You know, women shouldn't be playing this game. This game
doesn't belong to women in that way. And I think
that the skin that I've developed to be able to
walk in the rooms and have conversations with people who

(18:00):
might not see a woman in that way because of
some of the ways that my family groomed me, um
to to not look for anybody to pick me up. Um.
I think I come from a very loving family as well.
I got a lot of love to give every I've
never met a stranger. Everybody I meet is a part
of my family until you prove otherwise. Um. And then

(18:23):
we were also ballers, we were achievers. Um as the
only girl running around with a bunch of cousins and brothers,
Um I had the ball or sit out. There wasn't
any Hey, We're gonna let her play because she's the
only girl and she's a smart though. You either tope
the rock or you keep playing with us. You can
either shoot the ball or be the PG, or you

(18:44):
can't follow us. So I think also growing up with
a group of guys and my cousins and my brothers
who made me reach their standard, help me be a
really good athlete as well, pull your own way and
suck it up does not sound very encouraging. However, that
that encouraged you, and it gave you your sense and

(19:06):
your purpose. But some people don't see that as characters.
Some people see that is knocking down and not being encouraging.
And so that's why I'm asking to just let's hover
then that because I don't be especially being a dad, right.
And my and my wife is from an area she's

(19:28):
from Utah, She's from an area where, um, she believes
in sometimes debating with our children, and I believe in
dictatorship with our children. And so that is a healthy
balance because there are times where if I didn't miss
the tour out of muck some things up. But then

(19:49):
there's times where she's like, dang baby, all right, we
probably should have just told him, yeah, And so that's
why I'm just kind of like, I'm I'm sitting in
there because I mean, you said something that's that I
I just want to sit on. Like, how was that
encouraging for you when you were told either pull your

(20:09):
weight or sitting on the bench, And sitting on the
bench means you ain't playing right, You're not you're not
in it's not your time, I think. So I think
it was pretty simple for my parents in the village
around me, because there's there was all. There's also this
concept in my family, and this still exists today. So
some things are old school and some things are just
about the tradition and values of your family. One of

(20:32):
the traditions and values of my family is that we
have a village, right so I you know, Um, even
today as a grown adult, if I walk in the
room with my aunts, I'm speaking, I'm yes, ma'am, I'm no, ma'am.
I don't curse in front of him. If I do
it a slip up and I'm looking full back hand
or something crazy like that. But it's just that's just

(20:54):
the way we're raised. So I think something some things
about culture that you want to keep perpetuating, and then
other things. You're right, like the world has changed for children.
They have information at the at the palm of their
hands that we would never think about. When I wanted
to learn the possibilities of the world for the first
half of my life, I had to go pick up
a dictionary or I had to go ask an a

(21:15):
dough So I just think that the possibilities of the children.
So yeah, you have to evolve in your parenting, but
there are still traditions that you have to keep. So
I go back to this. It was pretty simple for
my mom and dad. Um. I think that they believe
that you rear children, um in the ways that you
want them to be, not in the way that you are,
and the ways that they wanted us to be as

(21:36):
they wanted they want, especially um as a black woman
growing up in the in America. My parents grew up
in the gym pro South, so they taught me based
on their perspective. Right. We live in the city in
l A, but that was their perspective. So the things
they never wanted me to do is to not have
to They never wanted me to beg They never wanted

(21:58):
me to have to rely on some one for when
my next dollar or where my next meal was gonna
come from. So I had to build. They had to
help me build up callasis right in my mind, and
had to help me go through experiences and learn the
hard way. So when the world brought me a challenge,
if I didn't win, I didn't back down. So I

(22:19):
think they were just trying to teach me. And that's
what I learned, at least that's what I gained from it.
So that, um, you know, pull yourself up by the bootstraps,
figure it out on your own, learn how to take
a loss, um, so that you learn how to win. Um.
And I think they taught us through a bunch of ways. Um.
Someone was it through study, someone was it through learning?
Habits and other was through learn through stories that they

(22:41):
told us. So I think that that worked for my
family and continues to work for my family in a
lot of ways because it's tradition. But I wouldn't say
that you are raising children the same way you did
thirty years ago that you do today. Let's take a
little break and come back to you about two or
three minutes. Yeah. I love cut to It, and I

(23:08):
love it even more when you download us and subscribe,
and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie,
where where at? And that's at cut to It on Instagram?
What about Twitter? At? Cut to It Facebook? Cut to
It featuring Steve Smith se what about online? And you
can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com

(23:30):
where you can buy merchant and you can subscribe to
us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my
answers questions. Um, yeah, I got all my questions answered.
That's what I'm here for. A brother, cut to a
Podcast dot com. Playing football with the boys in the league,

(23:51):
growing up in middle school, where your coach told you
that you had to quit because there was no place
for you to play in high school. Now the word
I highlighted and I've just been sitting on for the
last couple of days, prepping for this is no place.

(24:15):
And as a dad of one daughter and then I
was as a father of four and two three boys,
I cannot imagine someone else telling my children that you
you don't have a place here. M what was going
when you heard that? How did that sit with you?

(24:35):
And and now hearing that so many years later, walk
us through that. Yeah, it's still a chip on my
shoulder that I carried today. Um. And and unfortunately it's
it's a it's a story that a lot of girls

(24:57):
and women are still being told by their coaches, fathers, brothers, sisters, moms. Um.
But for me, sports was the one is I shouldn't
say was. But at that time in my life, UM,
you know, I was about thirteen, I lost my brother
a couple of years before. My family had been through

(25:18):
a lot. My parents were on the voyage, on the
verge of the divorce. Um. Sports was my refuge. Football
was the place that I was going to on a
consistent basis, UM to be outside of my mind and
inside of my heart. And I was on fire for it. Um.

(25:38):
It was my safe space at the time, and that
that family that I had with the boys who were
on my team was so important to me, and my
coaches were so important to me. So for my coach,
who I trusted, who I believed, who told me I
was exceptional. You know, I was a running back, so
he he it broke my heart. I don't know how

(26:01):
else to put it. To have him come to me
and say, hey, you're great. You you you you, you
know the boys are getting bigger. Um, there is no
option for you. And if you want to be a
serious athlete, which he knew I wanted to be, he
limited my options and he said, here are your options.
And it was one of the few times in life

(26:23):
where I let somebody else give me the options. Um,
because I couldn't see past the people who influenced me.
And I think that's a huge lesson, particularly for women,
because the world guide so much of who we are
and how we're supposed to be in dress, and who
we love and all those things. And so I think

(26:43):
that it was heartbreaking. So I went on and I
carried a fire probably into basketball. Um. I carried a
little bit of anger in the way I played ball.
If you watch me play, UM, I played a lot
like a dB out there or running back out there
going to the hoop, like I had all of that
same fire that I carried from from middle school to

(27:07):
high school and to college playing basketball. And so in
that moment, I felt heartbreak. UM. I felt like the
world was telling me what my possibilities were as a
woman and I and I like it. I really I
really didn't like it. I will say that frankly, that
coach was just making the right decision for me. Right.

(27:27):
I wanted to go to college. I wanted college to
be paid for UM, and so focusing on basketball helped
me get that. For me, it was the right path.
But at the time, UM, I think that the way
I think now is if you have somebody who you
think is exceptional, maybe I wouldn't have been able to

(27:49):
play running back at the varsity level. Maybe I wouldn't
have been able to um even playing high school. Who knows,
But I think totally eliminating that that was a possibility
for me period, for somebody I trusted meant that I
shouldn't even try. And that that's where I think the

(28:12):
miss was, like, you don't even try to do this
because the path doesn't exist just because you come to
a forking roads that's telling you to go left or
go right? Well, how soft is the is the dirt
in the middle, or to continue to go straight right?
Like how is this brick in front of me? Or what? Uh?
So I think that that and and you know, the

(28:35):
world happens exactly the way it's supposed to. But I
think if you want to be a creator, if you
want to advance something, then sometimes you gotta go against
the grain. And I think we should do more encouraging,
particularly our girls, um to make pass for themselves. And
you know, for me, I use it as a chip.
And now I got this league that I'm developing and

(28:56):
creating opportunities for other women. So it worked out, But
I would have loved for somebody to challenge me, to
challenge the system at that time. What would you tell
yourself back then to maybe stand up to those coaches
or just kind of say hey, I want to place
or to create that space for you. If I could
have went back and done that again, would have winning
tried out for our freshman football team at bell Flower

(29:19):
High School? Oh hold on, hole, you could have played
exactly Bell Flowers still Google right now, let's give the
world a context, compare them to Cincinnati Bengals. Oh, doctor
was like that, don't do the buccanmunes like that. We

(29:42):
weren't that bad. We weren't. We weren't Arizona Cardinals bad.
We were before fits. I mean, which Arizona car are
you're talking about when they was in Arizona or I'm
just trying to figure out when you say bell Flower, Yeah,
I just I'm like, I just debunked our wholes story
right there. Team bell Flowers stank. I put it like this,

(30:07):
When bell Flower has a good team, they got a
good team, it's a shocker when they don't bell Flower.
This is how bad bell Flowers. You either play at
night or during the day. If you cannot play at
night is because gang affiliated or your team is awful.
But most of the time, even at night, when it's
a big game and it's game affiliated, they just have

(30:28):
a ton of police. I don't think bell Flower had
a night game. Bell Flower is an offsite teak game
for a big school. How about that. Just keep talking
about my team, my school, and my in my line
though you you I detect no lies, you are not.

(30:49):
And I felt like, um, like I could have I
could have played in Actually you could have. No, they're
gonna three years later playing a UM playing at will
in high school, which was in the same division. So
she she was alignment and so it was a little
different for her. But I definitely could have got could
have got a couple of years in on jav for sure.

(31:11):
How was your support system through all of this? What
did they ingrain in you? What? How did they hold
your hand? And what were those dialogues like, yeah, you know,
nothing was more important than going to college to my mom,
like she going and getting a college education. She knew,

(31:31):
she had the foresight that sports was going to equal
in education. Education was going to equal a good job,
seeing more of the world, and then the possibilities were endless.
So for my mom, she was she was all about listening.
You know, you're a great athlete, you're a great ballplayer,
focused on that. So she wanted me to focus on back.

(31:52):
I think she actually liked seeing me play basketball too,
so that was her preference. Um, So when I got home,
there were no um, you know, cry on my shoulder.
It's just like I told her before, there was really
no cry on my shoulder. It was either hey, are
you gonna listen to them and not play football, or
are you gonna focus on basketball. Whichever one you're going

(32:12):
to do, you need to go be exceptional at it. Um.
I had a lot of love for basketball, so I
saw um. You know, at the time, I had friends
who were going off to college who were older than me,
and so I really saw that path and focused on
that path. And then I had a cousin. His name
is Lonnie, and he was on his way um to college.

(32:34):
He played It's crazy. He played volleyball at Lock. This
dude got a volleyball scholarship. This is yeah, at Lock
High School. He got alleyball. My mom and dad, Yeah,
so he got a volleyball scholarship. And he was like, oh,
j look, I don't care what these people are saying.
You can ball. You go focus on basketball. And that

(32:55):
dude end up coming to like every one of my
games all through high school, all through when you were
playing basketball. Now, where is your heart? I know you
possibly like our You're over there peeking over at football practice,
like going, man, that could be me. I dug one
in the basketball one. I jumped when I decided that

(33:19):
that was the focus. I jumped on and I completely
focused on getting a Division one basketball scholarship. That was
the goal, and I didn't look back until I signed
my letter of intent. The first thing I did on
my visit was go to the football It was so weird,

(33:42):
um um, on my visit to the college and they
were showing me all this stuff, the locker room and everything,
and I just was obsessed and it was It retriggered
my love um for for football. Um. I couldn't imagine
what I would have done if I would have went
to a big old powerhouse as He's football school, I
probably would have not been able to focus at all basketball. Um.

(34:06):
But that's what changed for me. And so I think
I played, you know, my seasons of basketball. But I
immediately met this guy named David Kellogg. He was an
entrepreneur and he played dB. He was a dB uh
for the football team. In a couple of years into
my college career, he was like, Oh, Jay, I'm gonna
start I'm gonna start a women's football league. Oh. He

(34:29):
started telling me that. He was like people, right, He's like,
He's like, I'm telling you, when you've done with basketball,
I'm gonna start this league. It's gonna be hot. Girls
are gonna play. It's gonna be eight on age. You're gone.
He whispering, breath stink, no team, whispering sweet nothing. And

(34:54):
she over there, she taking it all in too giddy.
I was kitty so to dream. Oh he's so hard dreaming. Hey,
I got this bridge. Now it's over. They call it
over at the pond. Don't worry about that. It's not
over at the pond. I got the I got the
title to it. Man, it ain't in my pocket. I

(35:17):
got the time to give me a hundred dollars and
it's yours. She was like, do you accept everything in
my pocket right now? Can I lay away? Do you
take bikes? I gotta bike. So so David Kelaw comes
in and tells you about this women's football team that
he that he wants to start. So what's your what's

(35:38):
your reaction? Does that start to spur up your It
sounds like it starts to spur up that level of
football again. And how did you transition into that? It
was wild because yes, so David, and David was actually
the best friend of my college boyfriend, right so um,
And now that y'all made me think about this, every
guy every dated back in the day. Um, we're all
football players. So there was something I was trying. I

(36:00):
was trying to stay close to the game and every
way I couldn't. Um, you can kiss, but I just
want your cliques. Poor guys like they they really didn't
they really they had no chance, but um, but they
can ballow. Like heading into my senior year, he completely

(36:24):
tore up my focus at basketball because he stood up this,
he went and did it. It was just eight on
eight women's football, tackle football, and he had all the
little teams around all of the little cities. It was
like six teams and it was all of these athletes,
girls from the soccer team, from the intramural teams, and

(36:45):
David mess around and put me at running back at
one of the on one of these teams, and I was,
I was, I could not there wasn't. I was so
overloaded with um, happiness and fulfillment. UM the idea because
it was the first time I played football with women,

(37:06):
and I never thought of the concept like, yo, I
don't have to play against boys. I can actually play
with girls, which was always my preference, like play against
other women. And so um, we ended up doing that
for a couple of years, and once I got a
taste of that, I never looked back. We hear people say, man,
we want equal opportunity, we want this, we want that,

(37:29):
But what does really equal opportunity from Odess's perspective really mean.
I don't have a dream of women playing in the NFL.
I have a dream of the w NFC UM standing alone,
UM having an opportunity to bring in sponsorship dollars, build

(37:53):
a strong revenue stream, UM work with universities and colleges
and the men UM to build a pipeline for girls
to play football against other girls. So if me equity
looks like developing a professional women's tackle football league UM
that has it's uh support from professional men's football, but

(38:21):
that we will wake up and no girl will ever
be told that her time in football is over because
no opportunity exists for her. And see that is an
answer that I love. You want other women to have
that opportunity, that not to hear what you heard, which

(38:44):
is you have no place. Because this world is big
enough with the right leadership in every area, right and
we're just talking about football. With the right leadership, there's
enough football fields to go around, there's enough footballs to
go around and there's enough cliques and listen, it sounds

(39:05):
like there's enough bodies that want to get punished, like
the game of football is right, and who are willing
to put themselves through it. Yea. And also to just personally,
you know, I know you guys are looking and with
with with the pandemic and all all of that stuff.
I think it'll be good as Steve Smith uh senior

(39:28):
Um comes along. We you know, whatever stuff you guys
have havn't going on, email us and we'll give you
a thousand dollars um. And then my foundation will also
do a thousand dollars just just to say, you know.
And and the reason I say all of that is
I can't fix all of the issues, but if if

(39:49):
you get enough of enough people that's right behind y'all,
that that's where it counts. And so that you know,
So just hearing your answering and why really encourage me.
And I loved it because it wasn't a it wasn't
an extravagant you ask or thought. It was a thought through.
It was a kiss for me. I believe in that

(40:11):
there's things that will happen and will exist that I
can't see, UM, but I've been in I've been at
this for a decade. This ain't new, right, Like I
I'm working my ass off to build this. I'm not
asking for anybody to give me or hand me anything.
I've been working at it for a decade. So it's
not like, um, this is happening overnight, or I see

(40:34):
what's been built over a hundred years and think that
I can build it into what what I'm asking for
is that to your point, there are people like you. There.
There are brands out there, you know, shout out to
Adidas and Rebel Sports who have already jumped on board
with us, But there are people, um that could literally
change the trajectory of the opportunity that women have in

(40:57):
women's sports. And I think just takes um some unity,
uh and some support, you know. I think that there's
billions and billions of dollars. Like I was on one
of I don't know if you have all the sides,
but there's one of the things that my presentation that
I always present that says that five hundred million dollars
has been invested over the last seven years in the

(41:19):
failed professional men's football leagues. Five million dollars. Ain't lying, girl,
And what I what I would do with one percent
of that would blow somebody's mind. I think it's about
that time, just so I'll take a little breathing. Good,
it's get down to do it. Hey, Gerard, why did

(41:41):
you get that T shirt? You mean this thing? Oh? Yes,
I got it from cut to a podcast dot com
where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys
at seven or four shot. But yeah, you can go on,
buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you
listen to podcasts you talked about. This has been your

(42:02):
job for a decade. What is your job? So today
I am the chief executive officer of the Women's National
Football and we are the premier women's tape of football
league in the country. And we have twenty teams across
the nations. Where where are these teams? So we're from Washington,

(42:26):
d C. To Washington State, so Seattle, Denver. We got
two in California in San Diego and Los Angeles. Were
in Las Vegas. We're in Denver. We're in Nebraska. We're
in Phoenix, Arizona. We got two in Texas, in both
Dallas and in Houston. We're in Atlanta, We're in Mississippi.

(42:46):
We're in North Carolina. We gotta seem mis Charlotte. And
we got a team in North Florida as well, um
and uh and a team in Mississippi, Mississippi and Alabama.
We got we're all in the South. I always educate
people women of and playing tackle football since nineteen thirty. Yes, yes,
and there are several leagues there are about women women

(43:11):
playing football in the US today. Crazy enough, the w
NFC is only a year old. And the reason that
I created the league, Right, I played in I played
over a twelve year period. Um, I played in different leagues,
amateur leagues. Hold on, so you played over You had
a twelve year career playing women's football, various leagues. Yes, okay,

(43:35):
take us through. I want to sit in that because
I want to hear what you have experienced as a
woman that's playing let's be honest, semi professional um football.
So I'm glad we're having this conversation because I think
a lot of people are afraid to talk what it's real.
I think if for me, the way I envisioned it, it

(43:57):
it is that if I want to create things and
put really if I want help, if I want support,
if I want sponsors, I gotta keep it real like
these aren't. There's no smoking mirrors. I actually believe in
the product of women's tackle football. I believe that if
you put the best athletes on the field with the
best products, you're going to get the best women's professional

(44:19):
sport you've ever seen. No no knock on the w
n b A or soccer or anything. But when you
get the top athletes playing football, there ain't nothing like it.
To your point, um, you know, talking to you about
my experience. I started playing in Dallas at the time
for what was the best team in the country and

(44:44):
ended up winning a national championship with that team. It
was rough. It was hundred dollars I think eighteen hundred
dollars we had to I had to come up with
as a player. Um, to play, I had to pay
for travel helmet. When was this because don't go very

(45:07):
well when you just said travel and helmet. This was
a helmet about two two hundred dollars. And then you
got a flight, so you pay for your own travel.
And then our team paid the league to be in
the league. Oh so you had to pay the play, Yeah,

(45:29):
so the team had to pay the league. We had
to pay. So that's what the team was. It was like, dude,
so you paid your eighteen hundred dollars and that helped
the team to be able to basically say, hey, our
team is locked in loaded, correct, so you have to
have so many players, uh to pay that eighteen hundred
dollars to help facilitate and rent I'm assuming rent um

(45:51):
facilities or even so, when you pay for your own travel,
was it a team bus or y'all? Just your car
proved it. It just depended on where we were going. Right,
we had to go to Houston, it was a car pool.
If we had to go to a couple of states over,
it was a bus. But I'm not talking nice bus.
I'm talking wasn't a good bus at all. Um. We'd

(46:14):
be lucky if we had air conditioning at the time. Um.
And so it was rough. It was rough, And that,
frankly was my experience in women's tackle football for the
first uh five or six years of my career. And
I was being told that that was the best of
the best. I feel good like everybody seemed to be

(46:36):
super comfortable with that being the existence for women and
in twenty seventeen, Um, I was winning my I think
it was like my fourth national championship. I'd actually got
awarded the bill um Wash Diversity Internship and was going

(46:56):
off to train a camp with the Atlanta Falcons. We
had just come back from the US because we gotta
say football. We had just won another gold medal over
in UM in Canada. And I'm sitting down at training
camp in Atlanta and I'm seeing all this stuff that
these men have available to I mean, like grapes, shade

(47:22):
all around, shade all around. Headed to the locker room
they you know, oh you know what I want to
I want a new hoodie. Let me just walk into
their free Rte Freeman and I got really close free
walking into the locker rooms like oh what, I want
some more tights, to get fresh pair of tights and Cleaton,
Oh let me try different pair of gloves today. It
was just m discussed that she was hot. I was.

(47:45):
It was unreal. And the coaches right sitting in nice
offices and I've been coaching, and you know, I only
want to It was just it was it was mind blowing,
um what was available and how well the operation ran,
and and um some of the mechanisms for making money
and all these things, and I was soaking it up
and frankly and my decision in my brain, I was

(48:07):
making a decision that I wanted to coach at the
highest level. But at that point I made a decision
that I'm gonna be a champion to bring this kind
of experience to women and girls, saying, let's build this
thing as a business. First. The game is great, but
if it doesn't stand on the right feet and convince
people like you to get involved in it, then no,

(48:28):
it won't advanced to where I wanted to go. I
want more. I don't want more, I'm creating more. This
last segment we have coming up is what we call
a deep three, and really it allows us to take
a deeper dive, ask some some deeper questions, to go
beyond who you are underneath your helmet, you know, underneath

(48:52):
your shoulder pads. So for me to go ahead and
ask the first question, you've seen always be true to yourself.
Was there ever a time you were not true to yourself?
If so, why when I didn't pursue football in high school?
I think that I allowed the world to define the

(49:14):
possibilities for me, and that is just not who I am.
And it was a huge lesson learned from me that
I haven't had to learn that lesson anymore. UM. I'm
gonna live in my principle and I'm gonna die in
my principle. And whether it's right or wrong, or gets
me what I want or doesn't, UH, it's the way

(49:35):
I'm going to live. What's the biggest change you hope
occurs for women football players and athletes in your lifetime.
I hope to see that women have tackle football, fully clothed,
fully sponsored um as a full time profession, paid profession

(50:02):
in my lifetime. I hope to see a clear pipeline
for girls into the w NFC and professional football in
my lifetime. And I hope to see one support of
the NFL of women playing tackle football against women uh.

(50:25):
In my lifetime. I love food. I love the cook
My grandmother taught me how to cook and and so
food is really a big deal for me. It's the
way I connect um where I have a lot of
moments with myself. I love fresh ingredients, you know, taking
taking time off of the stem, right, chopping bazel, all

(50:48):
that stuff to the point of where I wanted to
name my daughter whose name Bailey basil Um, but they
said you go, hey, hey stuff, A good one works,
is okay? Um? So if you were a dish on tree,

(51:16):
what would you add or take away? Oh that is
a good one. Oh I know, girl on the back again,
if you're swaying right now. Um. If I weren't on tree,

(51:38):
I would add more sauce because I don't think you
can have too much sauce. Um. And I would take
away spice. Okay, what kind of spice though? Is it
like garlic? I think? Um, I'll say like hotsp it's

(52:00):
like a like a tabasco or I don't cook, so
I'm like after um the food hot um like um no,
So what you know, Kayenne Kayane. Here's the hook line
of secre So what dish would you be there? I'll

(52:22):
be macaroni and cheese. I'm complex. It's it's harder to
put together than it looks. Oh girl, yeah, I'm my
mom was I'm Lola Jenkins who cooked this? Yeah, but
I think that that's what I would be. I mean
I think, um, like that could be too much cheese, right.

(52:44):
So sometimes you gotta be careful and just keep it simple,
and that's where I take some away. Sometimes I want
to put all the cheeses in, not just the cheddar.
I want to do it all. And so I think
if I had to take something away, it would be
in this case, your sauce would be your cheese, but
I'd be mac and cheese. I think it's more complex
to making it looks, but it's easily consumable. Um it's friendly.

(53:06):
It's a feel good food, and I think it makes
you think of the possibilities of the South and family
and every single kind of people love it. They have
their own different way of making it, but everybody loves it. Yeah.
I just want to take the time and thank you
for one hearing your story you be transparent and telling

(53:28):
us all the things, and then also how we can
help and and what what kind of support and what
you really need and one we need We need to
have a person with a sound voice and a sound mind,
and and you have that, and you have the ability
to take this where you want to go. But your
your story speaks for yourself, and so thank you for

(53:48):
taking that time, Thank you for spending with us. This
is obviously been my favorite UH interview that I've ever
done so far, and I've been lucky enough to be
blessed enough to do a lot of them in my life.
But this has been special to me as an l
A guy and frankly is a future Hall of Famer
speaking um, but no, I think that it's uh, this

(54:10):
means a lot to me, and I think it's a
great step in the way towards merging women's tackle football
with professional means football and and your support means more
to the sport. And I'm I'm representing all the women
who have played this game for so long and saying
w NFC football dot Com on and w NFC at
at all of the socials. And I really appreciate you

(54:32):
guys for heavy having me and allowing me to tell
the story of women's tackle football. Yeah, that's what sports
is about. We've had Odessa on here, now, We've had
Frank Kaminski on here, and just having those guys and

(54:53):
gals and athletes talk about what sports has allowed them
to remove themselves from, not removing themselves from reality, but
just kind of quiet, quieting all of the outside noise
and focusing and on focusing on something and allowing them
to be themselves, to live life to the fullest, but

(55:17):
not escape life, because a lot of times when things
are going on, people say, I wish I could just escape,
just having a moment to pause and to be able
to not deal with those things at the moment, deal
with them at the appropriate time, but just not on
the on that sports field. And I really like that

(55:38):
about her. I really love what she's doing. She has
such a powerful story, ton of energy. Just all of
the things that she has brought to the table and
what she's trying to do moving forward, and it's pretty
unique and it's different. Um, she's trying to bring football
to women, but not play sports men against women, But

(56:02):
she's saying that they want women to have the same
opportunity to display their athletic talent on a stage that
one is respected two has the same equal sponsorship and
equality of equal and efficient equipment, up the standard, up

(56:28):
the snuff, having a nice uniforms that every other men's
sport has, having a having a support system to the
training staff, the travel expenses of a real athletic sport.
Listening to her is something that was really interesting is
she was a professional woman playing sports on the side,

(56:51):
but yet they were high school teams that had more
and better support and equipment than these grown women who
some of them are career someone gonna stay at home mom,
some of them are are CEOs, and yet they're getting
hand me downs. I don't think that that's about gender.
I just think that's just about lack of And I

(57:15):
just think that she's taking a step instead of complaining,
she said, I want to do something about it, creating
a path. That was the biggest thing I took from
that is that she's creating a path. And whether she
didn't have a path to where she wanted to get
to when she was younger and and playing football, but
now creating a path to everything you just said, giving
women access and giving women a space, um, whether they're

(57:38):
in high school, whether they're in college. Beyond that, giving
women a path to where they want to go. And
so I could have we could have talked to Oh
that's a force another hour or two hours, just so
much energy, so much UM. I'm just impressed. He's one
of my favorite distant cousins, real cousins. Here's one thing though,

(58:00):
that I think we need to walk away from. That's
very important. There's somebody's probably gonna listen to this or
is listening to us say why do women need to
have the same opportunity as men to play sports? I
was thinking about this longer hard when she was talking,
because when she when I gave her a question, she
answered it in a way that was so profound. It

(58:22):
wasn't about men or women. Is this you know? I
use a lot of food analogies. Does it just because
we don't like or we disagree with that restaurant? Does
that mean the standard of the way the restaurants should
be held to health code should change because you don't

(58:45):
agree with that type of food. You may not agree
with women playing tackle football, but does that mean they
have to have less opportunity, unsafe equipment and be literally
car pool and other teams because you don't think they
should be playing tag on football. I don't think that's fair.

(59:06):
I think if we have the same energy to put
a a dog show on there and and have blue ribbons,
I think we can muster up a few bucks to
help these women pursue opportunities pursue a football career if

(59:27):
they wanted, let them do it. But I see every
year they have the some dog shows the Westminster and
I see people parading these dogs around, and some of
these dogs are more taken care of than some of
these some of the kids in in in the world.
So I just I just I just kind of came
my mind, like, what if we started if we don't

(59:50):
like something, we started neglecting. Well, I don't like this kid,
so I'm not I got four kids, but I don't
like one of them, so I'm just not gonna feed
this one. This world would be upside down if we
just started helping people based on our personal opinion of
the action that they're trying to do. And we need
to get over ourselves and just start supporting each other.

(01:00:11):
That's just one thing that I took away from it,
and it really opened my eyes. And you know, I think,
I think it would be really cool to see some
of these women who want and who desired the opportunity
in place to play tackle football and other ones play
tackle football, and let's see how good they can be.
Because I bet you, I bet anything, there's some women

(01:00:34):
out there because doing doing football camps, some of the
best athletes as a young some of the youngsters that
I have, some of the best listeners, some of the
best technicians, some of the best players in some of
my camps when I was doing it, or girls, they
were easier to coach because some of the boys knew everything.

(01:00:55):
Boys six one, ten years old, six one and his
daddy played tight end. He wants to play tight end. Boy.
You got an old lineman body, right, and that just
so it's just really cool. So that that's that's one
of the things. So I hope you enjoyed it. If
you would like to reach out, you like to support

(01:01:16):
financially or business inquiries about them more. Some ladies y'all
here listening. You want to try out, go ahead and
do it. W in f C Football dot Com. Cut
to It with Steve Smith Senior. That Is Me is
a production of Cut to It, LLC, Ball, Told Creative Media,

(01:01:39):
The Black Effect, and I Heart Radio. For more podcast
from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio, Apple
Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From Cut to It, executive producer Steve Smith, singer co
host Gerard little John, talent and booking manager Joe fe

(01:02:00):
She social media manager Peyton Smith from balto Creative Media.
Cut Too It is produced by Brian Falta Chevitch and
Meredith Carter with production assistance by Alex Lebrek, production manager
Sarah Pollock, Theme music by Alex Johnson, Lyrics and vocals
by Anthony Hamilton. You ain't heard about it, then we're

(01:02:22):
about to let you know. It's all