Ep. 123: Working in the Hunting Industry

This week's Pendlton Whisky Q&A took us down a rabbit hole! "How do I get into the hunting industry?" Dirk has a great conversation with hunter, entrepreneur, and good friend, Jon Gabrio. They recap Jon's black bear and elk hunt from last year, then take a deep dive into working in the hunting industry.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.
This week's guest is a longtime friend, John Gabriel. He's
the owner and operator of Apex Advertising. Welcome to the show, John.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thank you appreciate you having me on. Good to see
your face.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, good to see you. People probably don't know this,
but I probably talked to John on the phone more
than any other human being in my circle of friends.
And why Well, I really like John. He's a cool
guy and we share a lot in common. If we
want to rant or rave about something, it seems like

(00:49):
we're always on the line doing it, but we actually
work really close together as John does all the graphic
layout of our packaging. Our show displays man tons of
our our graphics at Phelps game calls. So, but I
think I think you and I met like years ago,

(01:11):
back when I co founded an elk hunting magazine called
Extreme Elk Magazine back in the day. I think you
were kind of helping out with some graphic art assets.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I think, Uh Man, has it been that long.
It's definitely it's been a long time. I remember the magazine.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, it was like twenty ten, I think is when
I first met you and then you know, and then
like in person, it was shortly thereafter. I think we
were a bow shoot or something and spent a lot
of time over the years hanging out and enjoyed your
your companionship and and your your your take on a
lot of stuff. Now, John's just not a pretty face

(01:56):
and uh a wizard for graphic arts. I will say
he is quite a quite a hunter. And some people specialize.
I feel like I kind of specialize in elk, but
I feel like John's kind of a generalist. I feel
like he's really good and a lot of different hunting.

(02:16):
So he's really great hunting with bears, elk, antelope, deer, mule, deer.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
He sucks at turkey hunting, but that could be where
he lives, right, Turkey hunting in Montana is probably not
the greatest.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, there's birds all around. Well we're just gonna we're
just gonna throw it out there. I yeah, turkey hunting, Yeah,
I suck at it. I am me in Turkey's we
just don't jive.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
So that.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
We're going to change that one of these days.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, well you should do it this year. Yeah. Well,
it seems like anytime you text me or call me
about in the springtime. About turkeys. You're like these damn things.
They're like all over the place, but just on the
wrong side of the fence. They love private property, especially
Montana they do.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I know. It's like always by someone's barn or like
something pecking away in someone's yard. Every time I end
up finding a big group of them. But I don't know.
We've had a few out in the woods, but uh yeah,
I just I don't know. I can't I can't figure
them out quite yet, so I'll be honest, It's not
like I've invested a ton of time in them like
I do with other animals. But maybe this year we'll

(03:26):
get a little more into it. So I don't know.
I gotta fill at tagged once.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, yeah, I think. I think if you put the
amount of effort into turkey hunting as you do everything else,
you guys would be slaying them. But I know that
there's other things take it priority that time of year.
I mean, bear hunting that's a lot funner than turkey
hunting for a lot of people, so and I know
you sure enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, you know, I think that's kind of the one
thing that that time of year I'm going out looking
for bears because they kind of open it pretty much
at the same time here around April fifteenth, so it's like,
once that hits, I'm up in the hills watching the
snow melt looking for a bear rather than I am
chasing a bird. So I don't know. I mean, maybe
I should reverse that a little bit though, and go

(04:12):
spend the first week looking for a bird and then
focus on the bears, because I don't seem to find
the bear I want. Untell. I well, like this year,
I jug it out clear to the end of season,
so apparently I like waiting around on that. But maybe
we'll have to dedicate a little more time just some turkeys.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah. Yeah, the same thing could be said about me
and shooting a deer, an early season mule deer or
an early season white tail versus elk. Seems like every
year that first week at Elk archery elk season, I'm
out beating around and I think, what am I doing.

(04:49):
I'm not hearing any bugles, it's hot, it's there's nothing going.
I'm just educating elk. You know what, Next year, I'm
gonna go deer hunting the first week archery instead. Of
elk hunting is you know what, there's I'll probably have
a lot more fun or you know, it's it's something different.
I've never killed a mule deer with my bow. I'd
love to, but it's always been every time just like,

(05:11):
oh elk though, so I can see you know, your
priorities can be skewed a little bit.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
I'm right there with you. I mean, it's like there's
been a lot of years when I thought about going
over to Washington, like hunting white tails and patterning them
during the summer and like that first week of September
and you know when it opens and try to you know,
get a bucked in. But I always enjoyed hunting during
the rut. It was something to do later, so I
waited till November. Plus the elk bug. So like you,

(05:40):
I'm like, I want to be chasing elk. I don't
want to be out dinking around chasing a deer. So Utah,
when I lived there was kind of fun because you
could actually chase them in August, you know, up in
the high country, so I felt like it never cut
into my September, so that was great. But once I
moved away from there, it kind of now I'm back
in the Elk game.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
So yeah, well I don't feel too sorry for you.
We'll talk about your game here soon enough. But you
had a kind of a wild story with your bear
last spring. I got this text and you're like, I
got a bear, but I can't find the dang thing,
and then you know, all this crazy stuff happened, and
then kind of don't walk us through that. That was

(06:20):
kind of a funny story, and I liked to make
I'd made funny a little bit, but it was all
come from a place of love.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, man, that I spent a lot of days up
looking for a bear last year. I think I was
like sixteen days or something like. I had like total
like trying to find a bear from April until the
end of May. I ended up finding this big bear. Well, actually,
I hadn't seen a bear for I don't know, a
couple of weeks at that point, and that morning I

(06:47):
spot one in the middle of the highway on my
way up to my spot in right at daylight. And
I was running behind and had this giant bear across
the road right in front of me and ran on
some private and I whatever, So I take off up
in the hills where I was going sold like an
hour ago, get up there and sit glass till I

(07:09):
don't know, it's like eleven o'clock or so nothing. And
then I was seeing these turkeys back to my turkey,
so they were down in the bottom of this by
this creek, way down in this hole. So I decided
to grab my shotgun and go and chase a bird
instead of a bear. So I take off dive clear

(07:29):
down in this hole like a mile from the truck,
and I'm getting set up on the bird and I
start calling the bird's coming, and it's coming around this tree,
and I'm like, I'm finally gonna kill one of these things,
Like this is great, like I'm gonna shoot this big tom.
And then I look up past the tomb like over
in the hillside and i see something black at like
three hundred yards and I'm like, you've got to be

(07:52):
kidding me, And I really instantly realized it's like a
big bear. And so long story short, I throw my
binos up, I look realize it's a huge bear, and
I hike clear back out of there. Didn't even shoot
the turkey, end up spooking the birds off. Didn't even
shoot this turkey.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Well, you know what, if Ryan Lampers is listening to this,
then he would probably be mad if you had to
shot the turkey, he'd be like, what's wrong with you? Man?

Speaker 2 (08:18):
He probably would here. It gives me enough grief anyways.
So I hike clear back up out of there, get
back to my glassy knob, grab my gun, get all
set up, and I'm watching this hole. I sat there
all day till dark, never seen the bear. I'm like,
you crap. So I go back up the next day.
Nothing And it was like a week later. I go

(08:38):
back up there, and I knew this bear had to
be in that area because there's a bunch of elk
that we're getting ready to calve down in the bottom
and it's right at the end of May. And I
had Kylie with me. We come around this corner and
there's this meadow down in the bottom with a wet
just like that skunk cabbage grass stuff, and it like
just a spot where you should see a bear feeding.

(08:59):
And I've looked in there and looked in there for
the last three years and never seen one in there.
We come around, of course, she looks out the window
and I stop and she goes, there's a bear stand
down there in your meadow. What I'm like, no, stop lying,
And I thought she was pulling my leg and she's like, no,

(09:20):
I'm being serious, there's a bear stand down there. Well,
of course, instantly once I realized she was being serious,
I flew out of the truck and grabbed my gun
because I thought, you know, I knew it was. It
had to be that bear because where I spotted him
the couple of days or the week before, it was
like down three quarters of a mile from there. And
I bail out, go around the front of the truck

(09:40):
down over the hill and it's like this like lodge
pole thick timber crossed and my short legs, I can't
really crawl over anything, and you know, so I was
like scrambling and this bear is only down there, like
two hundred and fifty yards and I'm trying to get
a rest, but it's so steep downhill through this timber
and I can't find anything. So finally I find this

(10:03):
down tree and I lean across it and I pulled
a total rookie move and I put the barrel on
the on the tree. But it was so steep I
kind of had to to lower my stock, you know
that like inch and a half two inches that the
stock is right there down to get the barrel to

(10:23):
get the angle. If I was taller, I wouldn't have
had that problem. But I put the barrel on the thing,
and I wasn't thinking about the harmonics of the barrel,
and I dialed the gun. It was like two hundred
and thirty six yards, touched it off, and all I
hear is Kylie, you missed. And She's yelling down through
the trees behind me, and I'm like, there's no way

(10:46):
I missed that bear. And I look and he's just
standing there. I'm like, oh, so Jack and Ochelle in boom,
same thing, just stand there. She's like, you missed, and
I'm just hear her voice like echoing down the timber,
and I, of course, at this point I'm pissed. I'm like,
how did I miss that bear?

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Well?

Speaker 2 (11:04):
He runs that time under this big tree and it's
like the only tree in the meadow. So I'm like
feeling pretty safe that like he's not gonna be able
to get away, and I go down through the timber more.
But I had to get another angle now to like
look at this tree. Well, finally he takes off, running
out across the meadow. By that time I had moved
positions though, and got on another tree. Well that time,
I put the stock on the tree and I kind

(11:28):
of have my hand like rested against in the stock
and kind of everything lean across my arm and he
runs out across and I figures like three hundred yards
and I touch it off boom here the bullet hit.
And I'm like, I know I hit that bear, and
he takes course at that point too, when it hit him,
he went into like overdrive, like turned on the after burners,
and I was like, Okay, that bear's hit. So I

(11:50):
hike all the way back up through this crap to
the truck and kay. He's like, I don't think you
hit it, and I'm like, no, I know I hit
that bear. And I'm like, did you hear the bullet?
And watch how fast he ran? And then at that
point I think I text you and I you know,
it was like, oh, I shot this bear. And well
then is when it got wild. So I went around,

(12:10):
drove around, had to go clear around and come over
on this other hillside and hike down over the top
and down in there, and as I start hiking down
in there, I'm like, well, he should be right around
here in this creek, and I'm like it's like open
grassy meadow and I'm nothing, no bear, no sign of blood,
no tracks, no nothing. And then of course on the
hillside where I shot from is like this thick lodge

(12:31):
pole jack for like you can't see five feet. And
then I started getting kind of nervous, and so I
think at that point I had like scoured the whole meadow,
looked where like he ran, found kind of his tracks
going through the dirt and everything, and well that's when
it started getting a little western. So at that point

(12:54):
I think I text you again, and I was like, man,
like I shot this bear, like I know I hit him.
I can't find him.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
I swear he's dead. He's got to be right here.
And then ended up going up in those trees and well,
actually I went up in the trees a little bit,
and then I backtracked, went all the way back up
to the truck and back around, and then came down
through the timber on top of him that way, and
it was so thick I couldn't see anything, and as
I started down in the trees. Then I heard something

(13:21):
coming down at me. I must have got like below him,
and he was alive, and I'm like, oh no, and
I hear like a bunch of wrestling, and of course
I can't see anything, and got my rifle and I
had my ten mil on my binal harness, but I
probably should have had that. So I kind of like
got nervous and I backed out, and I just didn't

(13:42):
know at that point what was going on. I don't know,
And so I went back to the other hillside, glassing
across in the timber trying to get a look. Ended
up going back around it up clear up to the top,
get the truck, and I'm like, let's go back to
where I shot from, reassess this whole situation. Like something's
not right. I didn't know when I heard the noise
if it was him, there was another bear. I was

(14:03):
kind of like not sure what was going on. And
I go all the way back around and looked down
in the meadow and that thing's laying dead right out
in the middle of the meadow where I shot the
first shot.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, did he just like could do a big figure
eight and come get back.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Or yeah, he went up where I shot where I
finally hit him on the third shot, and he ran
up the creek draw into the thick trees, up through
the blowdowns into the jack Firs, and then when I
circled under him, he went around and then came down
and through the jack Firs all the way down. And
obviously he was hit pretty good, but I had kind
of spooked him, and you know, it was on that

(14:41):
death run, and I ended up following his tracks and
he like went straight down through the jack fers and
just happened to like run out of steam and like
cart wheeled out into the meadow and was just like
laying out in the middle of the meadow. So like
he was dead in the timber. But I spooked him
and then he like ran down and like you know,
ran out of steam one hundred yards down there and
like lipped out in the meadow and died. But I

(15:02):
never went back down to the meadow because I'd went
clear back around on the road and you know, glass
and trying to see it, and then there he was.
But yeah, when I went down there, I mean I
hit him. It was he was quartered away on that
third shot, but it went up in there and blew
up everything. So I mean he was, you know, kind
of on his last leg I think when I spooked him.
But yeah, it was just such a weird deal to

(15:25):
like go back, and I thought, honestly when I drove
back and got out that it was him standing out
in the meadow because you know, like running away from me,
right until I realized he was dead. And then of
course I couldn't believe it at that point, but then
I had to go clear back around and hike all
the way back down in there. So yeah, that's right,
it was a It was a good bear. He was

(15:46):
actually just got the tooth age back yesterday, and I
was a seven year old bear. For a mountain bear,
that's pretty big. But he's almost six and a half feet,
so I mean he's he's a big, big Montana bear.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
So have a question what caliber of rifle we're using?

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, So on that one was a six five PRC
and I had really loaded some one hundred and forty
grain burgers and had that gun and I just shot
it a couple of weeks prior at the range doing
a bunch of load development. Everything was shooting a thousand
yards and I mean that gun is so deadly, but
I think the one thing I just wanted to kill
something with it, to say that I had shot something

(16:28):
with the six y five, because I had shot an
antelope the year before, but not with that bullet. It
was just the factory horned day loads. So I wanted
just to shoot something with that load. But now looking back,
I ways should have had like my seven som with
like a Burger one to eighty or something bigger. I
won't be shooting a bear with the six five anymore.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Right, Well, I was going to say, you should probably
invest in probably the most deadly rifle in the world,
the six five creed More. I mean, it's going to
take it up a notch from that six five pr
or See, it's the six to five creed More. You
look it up lots of there's a lot a lot
on the internet about you.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, I'll take your word for that. I heard I
heard those guys use the Maverick too.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah they do they. I mean, it's the deadly
thrill thing. So fast forward to elk season. So archery
elk season, you're just hunting Montana this year? The list
last past year. How'd that go.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
It was fun. We kind of went back to a
spot that we've had some luck in the past and uh,
fortunate enough to get a tag and I was really
looking forward to it. Spent a lot of time, you know,
kind of scout in the summer like I've done in
the past, found some really good bowls, kind of set
my target on a couple, and man, I went over

(17:50):
opening weekend, just like you talk about hunting the first
week of September, and it didn't open to I think
the sixth or seventh this year here, and it was hot,
the elk weren't doing much pretty. I mean, I found some,
but it was total summer mode. So I spent the
first week really just trying to find a couple of
the bulls that I had found during the summer, and

(18:14):
had some close calls on a couple, and yeah, it
was It was interesting. And then all of a sudden,
we got a rainstorm that moved in here, and anyone
that knows Montana and the gumbo mud that makes a
mess in a hurry. So I ended up having to
move my trailer and get it on some gravel, and

(18:35):
then the rain hit and I thought I'll kind of
speel it out and see what happens. It was so bad,
like even the gravel road turned a straight mud. I
barely got my trailer out and like four wheel drive
down the gravel for long ways and it was a disaster.
So ended up coming I took a week off and
then ended up coming back with Kylie and then she

(18:59):
had her wife. Kylie's my wife. We call her Kyle.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Kyle, and she's kind of like your main hunting partner too.
You know, you've kind of like doubled down on your
on your relationship of marriage and hunting partner, and some people,
I mean, you might take some people off guard if
you say, yeah, I've been sleeping with my hunting partner.
I tell him that about my hairstylist. I'm like, I'm

(19:24):
sleeping with my hairstylist. Well, if that's my wife, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
I might throw some people off yeah yeah. But yeah,
So took her back. She had a week off and
actually nine days, and she'd saved her vacation all year
and that was kind of all she had left, and
we went for it, and she kind of had her
own battle she was dealing with this year versus a

(19:50):
normal hunting season for her.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Well, you have, you had an extra, you had a
plus one in your hunting group.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
We did, we had a plus one. We had we
had a bean in the oven.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
So fun on the fun in the oven, so to speak,
fun in the oven. She was with child.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, yeah, and so it was exciting for both of us,
you know, and something obviously I knew that was going
to change, and you know, affect how we hunted a little.
And she's like, we'll just see how it goes. And
so we started hunting. A couple of days went by. Actually,
the first morning she goes out and she says, I
just want to kill a bowl with my bow, like

(20:31):
that was her goal this year. At that point, she
was twenty seven weeks pregnant, and she says, I just
want to kill a bowl.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Cool, doesn't She don't care if it's four hundred inches
or or four inches.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, it didn't matter, you know, Like she was shooting one.
So daylight happens, we have a bachelor group of bulls
coming up the hill to us, and uh, I'll never
forget this. And I'm like behind this tree and I
start cow calling and there's like, I don't know, six
eight bowls maybe coming towards us, and I bail over
the backside of this hill and I'm watching her and

(21:02):
I see horns start coming over the skyline and she's
hid by this tree and this like two hundred and
eighty ninety inch like he's he's like a six, but
basically a huge five, and he had like a kicker
on the one side and make him a six and
like a small crab on the other, but he just
had huge fronts, good thirds, nice solid bowl. And the

(21:22):
thing walks and he's like walking head on right at her,
and I'm like, hmm, well, it's going to get interesting.
But he's gonna dive off the backside and come looking
for me, So he's gonna turn broadside. It's literally like
eighteen nineteen yards from her, and I'm thinking she's gonna
jar bow. Nope, so let's it walk off. And the
thing walks right down to me, and I'm just like,

(21:43):
why didn't we shoot that? And all these other bulls
are kind of coming right behind and a bunch of
rag balls and stuff, and finally the bull ends up
smelling us spooks runs off. I go up to her
and I'm like.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Something happened with your bow, Like, what's going on? Like,
why why don't shoot that ball? You say, and you're
just killing anything? She goes, what's the first morning? She said,
I want to shoot something bigger than that. I looked
at her and I go, you said we are killing anything.
And I said, now on top of that, we're trophy
hunting and we're twenty seven weeks pregnant. I said, oh, oh,

(22:19):
we just added some to this. So anyway, so she
lets this bowl walk the first morning, and of course,
you know at that point then things don't go as
planned after that. Oh yeah, and it was hot, and
I was kind of thinking, man like you just kind
of had like the bird in the hand and just
let it go. And so we hunted, had some good

(22:39):
opportunities to close calls like the next like five days.
I mean we had bulls, like honest making moves. Just
things weren't going right for her. One morning she decided
to do some logging and she shot like two arrows
at the same bowls, shot a tree two different times
on the same bowl, shot another tree in another bowl.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
And she doesn't listen to this, she'd be so mad.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Told on her, Yeah, she's gonna be She's gonna be furious.
So she literally logged the whole forest and uh, so,
long story short, we hunted and fast forward. She made
it like the whole week. So it was like day
nine and uh, I'm thinking things are well. She had

(23:21):
a really close call that morning and we had two
big bulls that came in. One bowl was just this giant,
cool bull and he had a broke off right side
but he had his two brows and then his other
side he had kind of this club thing going on,
but like like an eight on the one side, like
just his giant, huge, crusty old bowl. He was just cool,

(23:43):
and we almost killed him. And then she ended up
almost getting a shot at like a three hundred and
six that morning. And then we had another bowl come
by us too. There was two bulls came in. They
started fighting and they were like eighty yards from her
and they were both really good, solid six points and
nothing happened. It's no shots, and so we walked back

(24:04):
to our packs and it was getting warm out. She's like,
I need to go back, get some lunch, regroup, take
a nap. She's like, I'm feeling really tired today. And
I didn't think she was going to make nine days
period and she ended up making it. So as we're
walking back to our packs, we literally get to our packs,
set our bows down, look up and there's like a

(24:24):
three fifty six point like walking by like forty yards
and neither of us had a bow in our hand.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
And I was like, are you kidding me? And I'm
like like trying to signal to her, like pick her
bow up. She doesn't see what's going on. She just
stands up, bowl takes off. So we end up hiking
out of there. We come back there in the evening
because we knew there was a bunch of bowls in
that area, and it was about I don't know, five
thirty maybe, and I look about twelve hundred yards off

(24:50):
and I see this bowl, nice, big seven point. I
mean I never laid eyes on him before. He's just
a big old bowl and he only had two ca.
And we've been dealing with a lot of elk and
there's like thirty forty fifty seventy cows like every day,
depending on how the herds are mixing, and we just
had helk running all over, so it was really hard
to kind of get close, get a shot and that

(25:13):
night when I seen that elk with those two cows,
I was like, this is it. We're killing this thing.
The wind was in our face. We just had to
go straight at that elk and cut down in these
junipers and like climb a canyon up on the other
side and be perfect. We'll call them right in. She's
looking at me times passing, let's sit and see what
they do. All of a sudden, it's like six, She's like,
I can't go over there. And I'm like, it's like

(25:36):
twelve hundred yards, Like that's not that far. We won't
be there in like twenty minutes. And she's like, no,
it's we're not going to make it by dark. You
know it's getting dark at like what like seven thirty
ish maybe, And she goes, I'm not going to make it.
I said, well, you're gonna make it. We're going and
she looked at me and she's like And there's times
like when we're hunting together, like if people knew the
dynamic between the two of us, it's kind of like

(25:58):
I'll push her because I know what's she's capable of,
what she when she can do, and I know she's
pregnant and everything but it's kind of like, you know,
one of those things that like I know she can
do it. It's just trying to like get this point
with the pregnancy and convince her. And of course I
didn't want to wear her out. And she goes, well,
what would the guys do. I said, well, the guy
we had already been over there forty five minutes ago,

(26:19):
that thing would have been dead. And she's like, well,
I'm not one of the guys. I said, well, we
call you, Kyle. I said, you're one of the guys.
I said, so we're going. So we take off. I
find the convincerr and I'd bugled a couple of times

(26:40):
at this bowl in the midst of this, and he
just would have cut me off, and so I knew
he was hot. We go all the way down and
I'm telling you, this is like the slowest like I've
ever went in on an elk in my life. And
I'm literally like a couple of steps, turn around, Look
see what she's doing. A couple more steps. Look she's
behind me, and I'm just kind of taking my time.

(27:03):
We get down in this juniper stuff and we start
going through this kind of creek and like climbing up
this hill and it was nasty and I bugle. The
bull cuts me off, and I'm like, cat, we got
to shut up and just like get up to the
top and cow call like once we get up there
will get set up. And I thought when we popped
out of the trees and be able to see him,
and we couldn't, and it was perfect. There was like

(27:23):
fifty yards and a rise broke over and then you
couldn't see the elk in the meadow and are in
that kind of this flat, so it was perfect cover
for us. We get set up and I got her
next to this tree to my left and she's about,
I don't know, forty yards from me maybe, and I
get kind of down over the edge and I cow called.

(27:44):
The bull cuts me off, and I kind of peek
my head up, and all of a sudden I see
ears like the cows, the two cows just walking right
at us. Here come the horns, the bulls walking right
at us, and I'm like, oh, I knew this was
just going to be perfect. And all of a sudden,
she's ready. The cows walk right into like fifteen yards
and the bulls at twenty five and just stops, rips
this big old bugle, and he's like broadside to her,

(28:06):
and I was like thinking, man, just draw back and
just shoot that thing. And the lead cow kind of
churned her head looking back at the bowl, and she
started to draw, and then the cow whipped its head
back around and Kylie locked up. And that's one of
those moments I think is like an experienced, you know,
like bowhunter like, and she is. I mean, she's killed
a couple with her bow now and done it, but

(28:29):
it's like not like she's killed twenty, you know, and
so she kind of just froze. And I think if
she just would have drawn back, it would have got
that split second where all the boat does elk and
the bowl would have just stared at her and she
would have got a shot instead. She just was kind
of like waiting for them to take the attention off
of her. To finish drawing, had to kind of like

(28:51):
let her bow back down. She started shaking, and right
as that happened, they take off and they start running
right towards me, and they start spinning and looping out,
and I start cow calling and I look over at her,
like thinking she's gonna jar a bow and she didn't
jar bow, and I'm like, crap, I don't know what
you know to do at this point, And all of

(29:12):
a sudden, she goes she just yells shoot, and I
was like okay, And so I just ripped my bow
back and the bowl I mewing like crazy, and the
bowl just spins stops quartered away, and I put my
fifty pin because I'd ranged a piece of sagebrush before
at forty four when they were coming in, and he

(29:34):
ran right behind it and then stopped and ended up
burying the arrow and ran off healing went like a
hundred maybe hundred yards, and that was it. So wasn't
like the most ideal situation, you know, with like her
not getting the shot and everything. But I mean, you
know it's dead.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
So well, it's funny because you made a social media
post about it, you know, you kind of give a
thousand word essay on what happened, kind of a shorter
version of what you just said, explained and uh and
and everybody was reading it, and then pretty soon everybody
started commenting, you know, like YadA, YadA, YadA, pushed my

(30:15):
wife down and shot her. ELK, that's probably the truth. Start, No,
I know.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, I just told her get out of the way.
I'm killing this bowl.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah good, good hunting partner. So she was probably feeling
energetic and probably packed like a front shoulder in a
in a hind quarter and the rack out for you
guys when you were packing.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, she did awesome, Like I didn't have to do it.
She was She cut the whole outc up, did everything.
She is a real chance, so true team player.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, she's a trooper man putting up with all that man.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, so no, we I took care of the whole Elk.
I didn't make her do anything, and it was it
was fun. And then the next morning do we want
to talk about that?

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (31:01):
The next morning was kind of the heartbreaker she'd put
in all this time. We had one morning left and
got up, We got in late, ate dinner, didn't even
go to bed. I shoot, it was like two thirty
three in the morning, and we ended up getting up
take off at daylight. Didn't hear a bugle nothing. All
these Elk hauld like disappeared. Not sure where they went.

(31:21):
There was a huge herd. She's getting frustrated, and I
was like, we gotta go check one more spot. So
we go check this other spot. I bugle bowl bugles,
come over the top, get all set up, get down
in on him. He's coming in, and then some cattle
from the ranchers. There's some cattle around the area. They

(31:42):
ended up get in the middle of the elk and
busting them. They ran off, and so we take off
hike all the way down this ridge. She's like, I'm done,
I'm giving up, I'm over it, like it's I put
in my time, and Mikay like, you know, like you
got a couple hours here, like let's just go after this.
So we all down Popa finally talk her into it again,

(32:03):
go over this hill and I end up calling this
bull in and he runs on a dead run, and
her being pregnant got her. If she wasn't pregnant, she
would have killed this bowl like instantly. And he comes
running around this hill head on to her at like
five yards and it's like a three forty seven by seven,
like just big bowl, almost like the one that I

(32:25):
killed the night before, and comes around sees her and
she couldn't turn her feet quick enough because she was
watching her feet being pregnant, she didn't want to fall over,
and so she didn't want to trip, and I totally
understand that the bull runs down. I stop him at
forty and broadside. She drew a bow back and then

(32:47):
he kind of moved. And then right as all that happened,
the sun was like right there coming over the hill,
and she like looked through her peep and I stopped.
And when he ran forward and he stopped, I stopped
him again. She shot, and she said that the sun
like kind of came right in her peep, and anyway,
she d up hitting that bowl ducked, but she hit
it right in a backstrap and he ran off. And

(33:09):
this is like the kind of the craziest thing that
I've seen in a while. That bowl literally had his
arrow or her arrow was sticking out of his back.
And I called him back into like fifty and then
he turned around and went down. There was another bowl
with some cows like I stand up spoting like three
quarters of a mile away. That bowl ran all the
way down there and started fighting that other bowl with

(33:30):
an arrow sticking out of its back and was trying
to just take those cows. He was so rutted up
didn't even care. But we should have killed two big
sevens in like twelve hours.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
So I mean, if you guys would have done that,
I mean, what do you do at that point? Hang
up your bow like yeah we're done. Yeah, we've unaccomplishable.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
I just want to quit hunt.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, I don't believe you, probably not. But then fast forward,
you went white tail hunting in Washington a pretty nice buck.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
No went you didn't get a nice your buddy.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Got one, Nick Nay got one. I couldn't remember if
I think. Yeah, And then I shot the older season.
You shot an antelope?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
You got did you?

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Did you and Kyle both get an antelope?

Speaker 2 (34:19):
No? She ended up missing a really big goat and
then didn't want to shoot again with being pregnant with
the gun, So I don't I don't blame her there.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah. Yeah, and then mule Deer season. What's your opinion
on Montana Mulder? Are the numbers down? I keep hearing
numbers are down, like numbers of deer, and then maybe
age class? Is that that? What? Do you think that's true?

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah? I do. I mean compared to you know, five
eight years ago, like it's definitely changed. We kind of
had that rough winner, and I would say numbers are down.
I think there's still a few good bucks to be had,
but I think you're really going to work for him
pretty hard. So I mean I spent I mean I
hunted hard and killed a decent buck, but I mean

(35:00):
not you know, one hundred and eighty and s trophy deer.
But I mean it's it's a nice buck. But yeah,
I mean we saw some a lot of deer, some
good deer, but it wasn't definitely wasn't what I would,
you know, say, like this is stellar hunting, you know,
I mean we're you know, like you would have had
We definitely need to make some changes here, and I

(35:22):
know that there are some changes coming down the pipe
in Montana where they're talking about moving deer season meal
deer season, I guess like into October and changing that.
And you can't really hunt the rut anymore, which I think,
you know, I'd be okay for that, but I know
there a lot of people wouldn't be.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
But yeah, it's kind of a unique, you know area
right now. It's you can't hardly hunt mealier in the
rut anywhere, you know, with the high powered rifle ye.
So you know, you kind of look at like what's
what's given but what's gained. Like you may give up
that rut hunt, but man, in five years you're gonna

(35:58):
have incredible meal they're hunting again. So I mean, to me,
it's worth it, you know, being a steward and a sportsman,
I don't I don't mind kind of you know, putting
things back here and there to to to better the herd.
For sure.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, I'm with you. I think, you know, if we
did make a change, you know, and it's like take
that out of take the rut, like the rifle out
of the rut. They what they're proposing is you could
still hunt white tail, which there's a I mean a
pile of white tail for guys if they want to hunt,
you know, white tail here in which I'm all for.

(36:36):
But if you could take some of the mule deer
out and limit tags and you know, a handful all
eastern Montana, like, you know, if you could just limit
the amount of tags over there. A lot of people
don't see it this way, but it's like, man, even
if you only got to hunt them every two three years,
but you know, you could go out and like have
a chance a like a nice you know, mature big
buck and you know one hundred and seventy inch plus deer.

(36:59):
I mean, I would be all for that, but I
know a lot of people think that you're just taking
opportunity away and they don't get a hunt. And it
eastern Montana. You know, it's easier deer hunting, you know,
than other places than climbing the mountains in western Montana.
So I understand it, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
I guess yeah, but you know, like back to your opportunity,
It is like, yeah, you have an opportunity to have
a tag and get out there and hunt. But you
hear a lot of feedback from a lot of camps.
They're saying, yeah, we hunted hard for eight ten days
and we saw a three point a little three point
was as big as we saw, or a forky like
they're just not seeing, you know, and then deer numbers,

(37:36):
you know, we're way down. So in my mind, it's like, man,
it's a it's a lot of effort, you know, for
a lot of different people to get to that part
of the world, whether you're driving across states or if
you're a resident, even driving across that state to go
over there and have the opportunity to hunt something like
that that you're just probably not interested in taking home
with you. You know, maybe it, you know, maybe it's

(37:56):
okay to you know, do it every other year, every
third year to where there's the animals to come back.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And I do feel for the
non residence in a way, you know, coming over here,
because I mean I used to be one. But it's
like when you drive that far and you know, spend
the money, especially on a non resident tag, and you
come over here, it's like, I understand you want to
fill your tag before you go back home because you've
invested so much. And I get that one hundred percent,

(38:23):
but it's also I mean, you could have a chance
to come over here, and especially as a non resident
now you're probably only going to come hunt Montana every
two three years, and so it's like at that point
if you could limit you know, some of the hunting
and change things for a little bit, man Like, wouldn't
you want to come here from an out of state perspective?

(38:44):
And you're like, man, I went to Montana and shot
a nice, big, solid four point buck or you know
some big mature deer. I mean, I don't know, I
mean I guess it just depends what you're after. I know,
we're all at different experiences and you know, some of
them like I'm okay eating my tag. You know, it's
like I don't really care, Like I want to shoot
a nice mature tear just like Washington. You know, it's

(39:06):
like white tails and stuff like that. Like I didn't
shoot one. I had one buck in particular I was
after and I'm okay, Like I ended up getting the
weather got the best of me and snowed out because
I was in a rental truck and stuff. But it
is what it is.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
So yeah, well I always like to say I like
to be part of the solution, not part of the problem,
So that anytime you start weighing in on those kind
of things, like I always try to look through it
that with those kind of lenses and be like, you know,
is this is this solving problems or is this creating
adding to the problem. It's like, well, you know, take
my selfish wants out and be like, okay, you know,

(39:43):
maybe I don't have to you know, be you know,
hunt as much, or you know, I could pass up
or I give up a little season, or give up
a little this or that to to have a better
experience when I do get to go, so yep, but hey,
I want to switch gears here a little bit, and
it's time for the pendle and whiskey Q and A.

(40:04):
It's not just poured, it's earned. And I keep getting
this question sliding into my dms on Instagram and and
I'm sure you probably get them to what's your workout routine? No,
just kidding. On Instagram, I'm listed as a fitness model, yes,
but I'm pretty sure nobody's going to ask me for

(40:26):
my workout routine. But the question is, and I've got
this one for years, how do I get into the
hunting industry? What's your take on that?

Speaker 2 (40:36):
John Man, I've definitely got that question a lot too,
especially doing what I do for work. Man, that that
is a very loaded question. And I guess let's kind
of like start here, like, are you just wanting to
get into the hunting industry because you see guys and
you think that all we do is hunt, and we

(40:56):
go on these hunts and get all this free gear
and get all this big honey, or are you wanting
to get into the hunting industry because it's your passion
and you want to go work for a company and
like make your career out of that. So it's something
you want to do for the next thirty years and retire,
you know. So I guess let's kind of like dive

(41:18):
down the one rabbit hole. Because I started my business
almost fourteen years ago and maybe longer somewhere in that ballpark.
I was doing stuff before that, but officially with my business.
But yeah, you know, it was kind of like I
wanted to be in the industry because I saw that
and I thought, oh man, all these guys get to

(41:40):
go hunt for a living and they're going on all
these big extravagant hunts, all this free gear, free bows
and you know sites and all you name it, you know,
out calls like whatever. It was like, that's kind of
how I perceived it, I guess, you know, in the beginning.
And the one thing that I will say all these

(42:02):
years later down the road, yeah, I work way more
now than I probably would if I just worked a
nine to five somewhere and hunts to clock and just
went and decided to go and you know, hunt and
enjoy my time hunting. Are there perks of being in
the industry? Yeah? Sure, I mean there's times you might

(42:22):
get a you know, call and get a free bow
or get this or you know, some free gear here
and there, but that also comes at a cost because
you know, it's like one of those things that now
those companies generally want something in return, and so you
go on a hunt or go to the archery range
or you're at home, and you know you have to

(42:43):
go and provide and produce this content for them because
they want that in return to help promote the product.
So now you've just added another layer of work to
your career in the hunting industry per se. And so
you really can stack it up in a hurry to
where you're not just hunting. I mean, how many times

(43:06):
have we been in the woods and you know it's like, oh, hey,
we got to get that this shot for so and so,
we got to hold on, we got to get this
video for them, we got to do this. And it's
like you spend a lot more time working than necessarily not.
But I think if you want to get in the

(43:26):
hunting industry and like you just wanted to be like
a part of it, there's I've met so many great people.
I mean obviously yourself and I mean, you know you've
been one of my best friendships, you know, for years.
And it's like there's a lot of good people that
we've met, you know, and Jason and you know, Phelps
and I mean, Chris Pass going. I mean, we could

(43:46):
go down the list and start naming people, but it's
like so many great people in different states, and you
know that we all come together and I feel like
we go to these shows and we don't always get
to see each other throughout the year, and we end
up going to the Hunt Expo in Salt Lake or
like these other shows just to like get in one
room together to be able to go and you know,
have a good time, have dinner together. But that side

(44:07):
the hunting industry, it's like, I don't know, are people
wanting to be in it for the friendships. Are they
wanting to be in it because they think that they
just get it's like this glamorous thing that they get
a hunt all the time and get all this free
stuff because I mean we still pay for our own
stuff at times, so you know, it's like not a

(44:29):
not just this gravy train of I want to be
in it, but if you do it for the right reasons,
I mean, there's definitely some good to come from it.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Oh yeah, yeah, I definitely I agree. Yeah the first thing, Yeah,
you nailed it, Like define what you're trying to get
out of it? Are you trying to have a career,
like just a nine to five job in the hunting industry?
You're like, well, I got to work for some industry,
do I I might as well be in the hunting
industry because I like that kind of stuff. Do you think, Oh,

(45:02):
I'm gonna I want to get into the hunting industry
because I love to hunt. I have a passionate hunt.
I really really like hunting, and I want to do
it for a living. So you have to like like
quantify like that's a very okay, that's like the very
entry level like thought process, like I really love it,

(45:23):
I want to do it for a living. Well, you
have to like consider like how is how is someone
going to pay you for you to go hunting? And
because you love hunting, Like it's kind of a funny
loaded question. It's like you have to like look beyond that, like, well, yeah,
we all love hunting. I mean there's not a single
person that goes hunting consistently that doesn't love hunting. So

(45:46):
you have to kind of figure out like, Okay, well,
what is it that I can bring to the table
to get paid for or get compensated for. I think
people look, they I think they watch outdoor TV a lot,
you know, and they'll they'll watch all these hunting TV
shows and you know, all the different characters and and
they're like, oh, yeah, you know that those guys just man,

(46:08):
they have so much fun and they go kill stuff,
and you know, they wrap all these brands and stuff.
But like you said, you know, you get all this
gear or sponsors or stuff. You have deliverables, right, you
have you know XYZ. You have to provide photos, you
have to provide content, you have to provide you have
to use their stuff. Like what if you make a

(46:29):
commitment and you're like, ah, yeah, I'm gonna use your
stuff and you start using it, You're like, oh, this
is trash. I hate this x y Z fabric, soften
or whatever you know that you're trying to use for
your hunt. You're like, oh, but you're locked in. You
said you'd do it. You have to do it when
you're hunting. That kind of that takes away. It's like, Okay,

(46:50):
now it's a job. Right, So, I mean there's a
lot of things to think about there.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, And to add to that, I think, like one thing,
you know, it's like there's so many kids out there
nowadays too that have a camera and you know, it's
kind of like a major league baseball player or a
football player, like professional like whatever. It's like, you know,
when you're smaller, you start and you know there's little

(47:19):
league and like all these things, and into high school
and then college ball, like in the pot starts getting
smaller and smaller and smaller and pretty quick to actually
make it to the major league. You know, it's like
there's only a tiny percentage that do it. And it's
one of those things that the people that have these
TV shows and do that. It's like there's so many

(47:40):
people out there with cameras now going around the woods
filming their hunts and doing things that the ones that
truly get paid. I mean, it is like this little
fraction that even receive any income. And so at that point,
it's like you better enjoy hunting because you love to hunt.
And if you're okay with just doing some content and

(48:04):
trading for a free bo or you know, backpack or
like whatever, all these companies now too. And I hear
this a lot because I work with a lot of them,
is that they absolutely get bombarded with all these people
now like hey, I'll give you photos like I'll make
I'll give you some video content. Well, the problem is

(48:24):
is the more and more people that do that, and
now it makes it harder and harder and harder for
anyone to get any money because they're giving away their
money and product to so many people in return for content.
Now they don't have any money left to like pay.
So it's like if you think that you're going to
come in and just all make the most killer videos

(48:47):
and we'll do this whole series and do all this stuff,
and you're gonna, you know, I want one hundred thousand
dollars check. And it's like, I mean those that's so
like far fetched to even kind of think that. And
I'm not saying that to like squash people's dreams and
this and that, and because I mean it's like I've
been there one day too, and I think I've lived it,

(49:08):
and it's like I just realized that. You know. It's
like if you have a skill set or something that
you can do, like myself with like designing and building
websites and those type of things where it's like, but
I'm actually like working with the companies to try to
help them make money and progress and do their thing,
but that I'm not making money even though people think

(49:29):
I'm in the hunting industry. I am, but it's like
I'm helping companies. Like, you know, I could do the
same thing if it was you know, someone selling dog food,
you know, and like helping them do that. It's the
same thing. So it's like you almost want to go
into it and be like, hey, I want to go
work for a company like a phelps you know, like
I'm just you know, throwing you out for example. It's

(49:50):
like go work and learn what they do, and maybe
the perk is maybe I get to go on an
ail cunt this year and like go spend time or
go do this, and like you kind of get rewarded
in different ways, you know. So I guess it just
kind of depends, like you know, what what you're what
you're wanting out of it to and what you want
to achieve.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Well, I think that there's a big misconception that you're
just going to get paid a lot of money if
you work in the in the hunting industry. You look
at the folks on you know, outdoor TV, like literally
like the Sportsman Channel over out Door Outdoor Channel. To
produce a TV show, they want a couple hundred thousand dollars.
I mean, I'm not sure what the it is exactly,

(50:41):
but it's it's a large sum of money for you
to put your content on their platform, okay, right off
the bat. So then you go after sponsors, so the sponsors. Basically,
the the the platform eats up all the money from
your sponsors. So and that's why I think there's a

(51:01):
lot of these like like literal TV personalities, they kind
of have some money already, right, They're not depending on
sponsors paying their their their their money to buy food
and electricity and pay their cell phone bill. Right, they
actually have money already somehow, maybe from working hard at
in a completely unrelated industry. Maybe they you know, had

(51:23):
some old money in the family whatever. A lot of
I think a lot of those folks, you know, you know,
they've found a way to do it, but it takes
a ton of money. So outdoor industry. But then you
look at YouTube, so you're like, oh, well, it doesn't
cost me anything, and YouTube will pay me. People have
a huge misconception of what how much money you can
make off of YouTube videos. You get you get paid

(51:48):
by YouTube per thousand views on your video. Okay, so
every thousand views you get paid. Now, if you're doing
hair and makeup and maybe some cooking that has nothing
to do with hunting, that just kind of domestic life.
Those kind of people, they'll make anywhere from five dollars

(52:09):
per one thousand views to seven or eight dollars, depending
on on what advertisers will pay. How do how does
YouTube pay well that people put that put ads that
the little commercials on YouTube, that's who pays them. So
it's all a bid. Now nobody really knows exactly how

(52:29):
it works, but basically these advertisers bid and they say,
we'll pay this much for this for this kind of programming.
We'll pay this much for our ad to be there. So,
you know, I think that what you get paid is
always fluctuated. Now, I have some friends that have a
really popular outdoor hunting channel. He was showing me behind

(52:50):
the scenes on how much they were getting paid. They
got paid thirty three cents per one thousand views. Thirty
three cents per one thousand views, So put that in
your pipe and smoke it. I mean, that's that's that's nothing.
I mean when you consider that the production costs. You
have to pay a camera man, you have to buy tags,

(53:11):
you have to pay for fuel, you have to buy
your food. I mean, you can spend ten thousand dollars
if you have to pay a bona fide camera person,
between camera permit, everything you're gonna spend. You could spend
up to ten thousand dollars just for a non resident
hunt somewhere. So for those thirty three cents per one thousand, man,
you better have a few million people watch your videos, right, yeah,

(53:33):
so on some of mine, I'll be transparent. On my
Bugler YouTube, I think I've gotten around three to four
dollars per one thousand. Now they're not they're not viral videos, right.
You know, I don't have a million people watch my stuff,
and I haven't put any real new content on there
in quite some time. But the residuals, the residual stuff

(53:57):
that's on there, I get a couple hundred bucks a
year basically pay aid from YouTube. So not a lot
of money, not, I mean, you can't even buy a
non resident tag anywhere for that kind of money. So
people kind of think they have this misconception you're gonna
make a lot of money if you get in the
industry and start cranking out content right away. One of
the things I like to recommend is, and you kind

(54:20):
of you kind of alluded to this a little bit
on on your on your job and your craft, is
become an expert. Right. I don't care if you're talking
to what kind of industry you're in. I don't care
if it's automotive whatever. Become an expert and you will
find an opportunity. Right. So, for instance, I am really

(54:44):
good with el calls. I've been elk hunting for thirty
five years. The first four years I literally hunted every
single day of September the whole every year I was
in high school. By the time I graduated high school,
I had more elk hunting time in the most adults
have in a lifetime. Right. And then it just compounds
from there. Right. So I've I feel like, I don't

(55:06):
want to try to come off conceited, but I feel
like I'm a subject matter expert on elk hunting to
a certain degree. Do I learn stuff every year. Absolutely,
I'm always learning more. But I have a lot of
reps and I have and I'm pretty damn good at
using an ELK call. Now I found a spot. I
work for an ELK calling company. There's there's my niche.

(55:27):
There's my niche. Now, if you're trying to be like, okay, cool,
well I'm going to be an expert, well you have
to look at the industry and think, okay, where are
the gaps within that industry? Okay, we have subject matter
experts on bows, on shooting, our archery, on broad hands,
on arrows, whatever it may be. There are some gaps there.

(55:48):
Of course, that's the kind of thing that you need to,
you know, to look at. Now. It can't be it
can't be. It can't be something forced. You can't be
saying well, I'm gonna do this just because I want
to all thes and the likes. You literally have to like.
You have to be passionate about it. You have to
be one hundred percent real. And I think you know
that's why I've done well because I I live and

(56:10):
breathe this. Whether I had a job working for a
call company or not, I've lived and breathed elk hunting
my entire life. Back when I had, you know, maybe
a week a year to hunt, I used that week.
If I had weekends hunt, I used that week. I mean,
I was always elk hunting and enjoying it. So I

(56:30):
didn't really set out to like get an industry job
in my life. I didn't say, like, someday, I'm gonna
get a job in the industry. No. I just worked
hard at my craft because I loved it, and one
day I got noticed and things start, doors start opening up,
and I think you have to really look at it
that way. But it's not easy. You can't just say, cool, well,

(56:55):
I'm gonna learn how to use an up bugle. I
can bugle really good. I'm gonna go get a for
a call company tomorrow or next year. Man, I mean,
you're gonna have to work your ass off. You have
to work your ass off to get to that point
of being an expert. And then once you become an expert,
you're going to have to continue to work your ass off.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
One hundred percent. And you know, unless you just want
to go like work for that call company and like
maybe you want to try to get your foot in
the door and just like stock boxes, you know, shipping
orders like doing whatever, or customer service or like some
way to kind of work your way into it. But
I'm I agree with everything that you said one hundred

(57:35):
and ten percent. You know, I grew up working in
an archery shop and that was kind of like I
loved bows, you know, it was like I loved the
idea of archery. And you know, I still to this day,
like I have my own little pro shop, like in
my gun room in my house because i love working
on my own stuff and I'm super passionate about it.

(57:58):
And that's I think one thing for me that like
even I don't portray to the outside world, but is
like my love for like tinkering and like the little
things that go on behind the scenes. And I'm such
a nerd when it comes to that stuff and tuning
my bows and like arrows and like doing all that.
But it's something that like I've kind of kept close
to me because I enjoy it so much that it's

(58:19):
like the one thing where I'm like, oh yeah, like
I do this and I go out and I'll mess
around with my bow and my gun room and like whatever,
because it's like my like little hobby like my passion.
On the side, I could talk I could go to
any of these shows, you know, and talk archery all
day long, you know, or guns like anything, but it's

(58:40):
like the archery side, Like I could go and do
that all day because I love it, like outside of
just hunting. Obviously I love to hunt. But then you know,
it's like like my business. You know, I was driven to,
you know, figure out I wanted to build websites and
taught myself how to do that long time ago and
design work and all that. Obviously went to college and

(59:01):
all that, but you know, it was kind of one
of those things that I was so driven I want
my thing, Like I wanted to own my own business
so bad, and it was like didn't even really correlate
to hunting at that time. It was like I wanted to.
I was driven because I wanted to be so good
at like designing or building websites or marketing and like

(59:23):
doing stuff like that and like helping companies grow. It
just like went to the hunting industry because I had
a lot of passionate about it and there at that time,
you know, I mean there still is, but it was like
there was that hole that niche and I found my
niche and you know, did it and went for it,
and you know, here I am today. But it was like,
if you find something that you're passionate about, you can

(59:44):
kind of adapt and do that and keep growing, you know,
with your knowledge and everything else is times change. That's
where you know, I think you'll do good and you know, succeed.
So yeah, there's a lot of ways to get in
the industry if you just want to be in it,
if you just want to go work for a company
and go to these trade shows. And you know, I

(01:00:05):
feel like some of the shows like the Hunt Expo
and you know, Shot Show and ATA and some of
these other shows and Sheep Show and all these and
I feel like people see it on social media and
it's like a fomo thing. You know, they're like, oh man,
there's everyone, like all these hunters are there and they're
doing this and having a good time together. And I

(01:00:26):
almost feel like like you create this fomo like people
feel like they're missing out and they want to be
a part of it, and they feel like they have
to be in the industry just to like go and
enjoy and like do that. And like I said, it
is a lot of fun and like, you know, we
have a good time in talking to people and meeting
people and you know everything. But yeah, I mean you
can go do all that, go work for a company

(01:00:47):
and just enjoy and like have that be one of
the purposes of your job and love life, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
So right, Well back to that. Being an expert. I
mean being as expert though is like an un and
you say, oh, yeah, you do marketing and build websites.
But what people don't know the other things you do.
Like you're a professional photographer. You have to take stock
photo imagery, so John does all of our stock imagery

(01:01:15):
for our ELK calls, like like all that, Like you're
doing that all the time. Video work, you know, let's
say somebody wanted you to do something like some kind
of video work, you can do that. Like there's so
much that you have to perfect and be good at
and be an expert on to make this. So you
don't just be like, oh yeah, well I'm gonna learn

(01:01:36):
how to I'm gonna be an expert at blown an
ELK bugle. Well people don't know, like, okay, well my
job not only do I blowing out ELK bugle pretty good,
and I'm really good at talking to people about ELK calls.
I mean that's just that's like probably the smallest part
of my job. We film these hunts every fall. Now
I may not film them, but I'm editing them. So

(01:01:58):
I have to be an expert at using Adobe Premier
or whatever kind of platform you want to use to
to edit your films with. Oh, there's pictures to edit. Oh,
I have to edit those two. Oh, John and I.
You and I work together on designing packaging, So I'm
not I don't have any skills. I can draw something

(01:02:19):
out on a cocktail napkin, but I can say, all right,
I want it to look like this, and then we
have to have a good enough report to work together
to find what works, what will work from your standpoint
in ours social medium. Uh. Management, I've got to do
all of that product product development, you know, and testing

(01:02:43):
like it's. It goes way beyond just like yeah, cool,
it sounds good, We'll do it like it's so there's
so much to it, so it's like an onion. You
kind of pull it back and it's like you find
one more layer that you have to be good at
something written word, you know, Now, I'm on a podcast,
so you know, I have to be able to talk
about stuff with guests and find people that are interesting

(01:03:07):
to talk to. So it just seems to never end.
But those things are out there. There's ad those opportunities
out there, but it's not just going to fall into
your lap overnight. And honestly, you look at like industry jobs,
you might look at it this way. Some of the
probably the highest paid people into the hunting industry are

(01:03:28):
people at a corporate level, you know, at upper management,
who have a degree, They went to college, they worked,
and they started out and they worked somewhere else. They
probably didn't even start out in the hunting industry and
finally got into the hunting industry because they like the
outdoors or they like hunting, and then they spent some
time there with some successful track records and they climb
the corporate letter. Now they hold really good jobs with

(01:03:50):
really secure salaries in some big companies. You know, those
are those are jobs. Those are the kind of jobs
you know a lot of people probably would like to
have if they had skill set. Uh, manufacturing jobs, you know,
whether you're you know, a machinist or a whatever, whatever
kind of you know, stuff that you could can can manufacture.

(01:04:11):
Maybe even if you're just packaging things. I mean, companies
have to take it from the idea to packaging to
putting it into a box and shipping it. You know,
maybe it maybe it's e commerce, you know, maybe you're
you're really good at that kind of stuff. You can
you can make a heck a good heck of a
good living in the outdoor industry, in the e commerce side,

(01:04:32):
or like you a designer, uh, photographer, film production, basically
any kind of a you look at any kind of
a normal business in any industry, those those businesses have
the same support structure as everything in the hunting industry.
So you know, maybe maybe you want to work for

(01:04:53):
a hunting company because you love it, but you have
a skill set in accounting or what or whatever it is,
there's a spot for you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Yeah, I mean that that's so spot on. It's like,
you know, just like if you're gonna go work for
Boeing or Amazon or like whatever, you know, there's still
jobs like that those companies offer in the hunting industry.
So it's like you can go work for someone and
have a great career, you know, just working for a
company and you know, like they're in we you and

(01:05:26):
I both know a lot of great hunting companies that
are out there too, you know. And some of the
perks that some of these people get it seems like
they get more time off and all this, and I'm
over here just slaving away, killing myself with my own business.
But you know, it's like people have great opportunities, you know,
and they're gonna go do things. And maybe you know,

(01:05:46):
some of these people in two you know, it's like
maybe they're they're they want to be in the hunting
industry because they idolize some people and it's like they
maybe they just want to meet them and do that,
and you know, whatever, whatever it is, it's like this,
it is a great industry to be in, and you
will make awesome friendships. And regardless of what level you

(01:06:08):
are at a company, if you went and work somewhere
or doing it on your own or whatever you're doing,
there are you know, some really great people. And I
think that's like that in any industry, you know, snowboarding,
you know, golf, whatever you your passion is, you're going
to meet the people and like minded people. We just
all happen to really like hunting and spend a lot

(01:06:29):
of time doing it as much as we can outside
of working, you know, And I think that's kind of
what it boils down to. But if you want to
be in the industry, I mean, find your niche, that
something you're good at, and then figure out how you
want to apply it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean even I've seen guys get at
their foot in the door with companies just getting to
know people at a trade show. They'll go up, they'll
introduce themselves. One of our good buddies, Cody Wilson, he
come up to the Phelips booth years ago and just
shot the breeze with us for a whole weekend, you know,

(01:07:09):
and got to know him. Just awesome dude, great hunter,
good guy, has a great nine to five job, but
he wanted to he wanted to kind of be part
of the hunting industry, you know, because he enjoyed the
people and and you know, and every year Cody comes
and helps us out at the Phelips booth, at at
the trade show, at at the Honeyex bo in Salt Lake,
and we've built an awesome friendship with him. He went

(01:07:31):
el hunting with me last fall just loved the guy.
But you know it's it all starts somewhere, you know.
So there's a lot of companies they they need those
kind of help or you know at trade shows, you know,
they get they get to know somebody there. You know,
maybe they come able to come back the next year
or to the next show work as an ambassador. Maybe
they can even just maybe they'll even get paid. You

(01:07:53):
just never know. There's opportunities to get your foot in
the door. And uh and if you're a good person
and disguise the limit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Right yep, one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Yeah, So anyway, well I think that'll be we'll just
wrap it up with that thought. You know, there are
disguise the limit on that the hunting industry. You can
get in there, but you have to really be specific
on really what you're trying to accomplish, what do you
bring to the table, And you know you can you
can go along ways, just like just like any career, honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
So that's right, that's right. And one thing we'll kind
of add this caveat in there too, because it seems
like the YouTube thing, you know, it's kind of everyone
wants to have their own videos and be on YouTube.
And do all that kind of a final thought on that,
you know, and keep doing your career that you're doing now,
you know, and and kind of you know, do this

(01:08:49):
as a side hustle, you know, like it's your second job,
you know, if you will and start filming and doing things,
and you know, maybe maybe you just want to be
recognized by some of these companies or get some gear.
Maybe that's like we kind of mentioned, like that's your
thing and that if that's your thought of being in
the industry, just do it then, like no one, you know,
no one's holding you back but yourself. So it's like,

(01:09:10):
go out and achieve it. And all great things come
with a lot of hard work. So put in the
hours and punch the time clock and you'll get there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Yeah. Yeah. I think some of the you know, YouTube creators,
they just they put videos out just because they love it.
They want to share their experiences and with their friends
and family and and they're not looking for anything other
than you know, you know, bringing that you know, bring
enjoyed other people, and they enjoy the the the craft

(01:09:39):
of filming and editing. I love film production. I really
enjoy it. Like now, going through my al cut from
this fall, I've been saying a few beadwords and it's
been a grind. But when you have a good hunt
and you can edit that thing up and put it
out there, and just like I find it very satisfying,

(01:09:59):
you know, it's it's it's really it's really fun. So
it has to be something you enjoy and it has to be,
you know, something you're passionate about. So well, thanks man.
I really appreciate you coming on as always. We haven't
had you on here for a while, but appreciate it
and look forward to your your hunting season twenty twenty five.

(01:10:20):
I always get to live vicariously through you in Montana
because I probably won't draw the Montana deck again this year,
but I always enjoy watching you and your wife's adventures
over there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
So yeah, I appreciate that, and likewise always uh, you know,
especially now we got the little one that's going to
be we're going to be toting around with us this year,
so that's going to add some new adventures in itself,
but I'll be living vicariously through you and Jason and
everyone else that's off traveling the states here.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
So yeah, but well, I have a hunch that you
guys will be just fine with that little peanut running
around with you. I feel like you're going to have
an awesome hunt and a good fall and real good experience.
It's never too early to take your kids.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Hunting, never, I know. And that's kind of the thing.
I mean, spring bear obviously, I mean she's six weeks old,
I guess now, but it's like spring bear coming in April,
because right now is what February fourth and Kylie made
comments to my dad that we were going spring bear
hunting and we were taking her. And my Dad's like, oh,
you guys might have to give up hunting for a
few years, and Kylie said, no, she's we're going, So

(01:11:30):
I mean absolutely, it just just how we do things.
But it'll be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
How did how did all the Native Americans back in
that you think about it? All these Native Americans? Of course,
you know, the women didn't probably go on the hunt
too much, but man, they were living like they were camping, right,
I mean, it was it's a rough existence and those
people were just flaying. They had babies and moved babies
and went across America. I mean, they were a tough people.
And I'm like, geez, we have it way better these

(01:11:58):
days with the I mean diaper. Yeah, I mean, you
name it. You know it's at her fingertips. I mean,
there's no excuse to not to get out and take
your kids hunting with you and bet in the woods exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
No, you know, agree, hundred percent. So I mean we're
looking forward to it. It'll all add a new new
level and I hope it, I'll be honest, kind of
my my main goal this year is just to see
Kylie get an elk. And last year we have a
picture of her with my bowl that she's holding her
baby bump in the picture, And this year I'd love

(01:12:32):
for her to kill one and actually have like little
one in her arms, you know, over the elk. So
I think that would be kind of just a cool,
you know, like full circle thing, and that's kind of
my goal.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
So yeah, you know, it'll happen.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
It'll happen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
I can't wait to see it. Yeah, all right, Well
thanks again, John. We'll catch everybody on the flip flop

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Can