March 23, 2023 • 58 mins
Jordan Budd grew up as a ranch kid taking advantage of all the great outdoors had to offer. Now, she has her own guiding service and a podcast you might have heard of -- MeatEater's Gear Talk. Today, we're talking turkeys and Jordan's turkey killing gear picks. We cover everything from ground blinds and comfortable seating options to broadheads and red dots. If you're a turkey hunter, you're not going to want to miss this!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today's guests. Grew up
in Nebraska as a ranch kid and started hunting deer, turkeys,
and calling Kyle's at a very young age. In high school,
Jordan Bud taught herself how to run a camera and
begin filming her friends and her own hunts, which grew
into profession when she started filming the Western hunts for sheep,
elk and mill Gear. This also allowed her a lot
of time in the field and was a great platform
(00:35):
for her to test equipment, so along with filming the hunts,
she also started to write gear reviews. This has all
led to her current position with Meat Eater producing content
testing gear and now she is the co host of
the gear Talk podcast that she works with Jannis Patellas on.
Aside from the media, she also runs an outfitting business
in Nebraska on the ramps that she grew up in
called Running Water Hunting, where she guides and hunts for
(00:57):
deer and Mariam's turkey. Welcome to the show, Jordan's thanks Jason,
thanks for having me on. Man. How's everything going? Things are?
Things are good, They're warming up, snows melting. I'm in Nebraska.
How's everything going? Things are. Things are good. They're warming up,
(01:19):
snows melting. Um. I'm in Nebraska currently helping out with
some ranch stuff and then getting ready for turkey season,
and I was a little worried about all the snow
we had, but it seems to be melting and and
been seeing a lot of birds, so I'm excited to
get out there. Yeah. So you're talking a lot of
snow in Nebraska as well as Idaho. Yeah, and it
(01:39):
pretty much. I've been here for about a week and
about the time I left Idaho it really cut loose
and started snowing there. So um, yeah, it's been a
little bit of a shift. Yeah. Yeah, it looks I've
seen pictures and it looks like people are trying to
dig themselves out in a few places in Idaho and Montana.
And uh, you know, turkeys, turkeys hunting is gonna be interesting.
(02:01):
I think I think your snow line is going to
be a lot lower. But I'm starting to really worry
for our deer and elk. You know, I've seen lots
of videos and you know, Utah and Idaho and people
often to do some supplemental feeding, so hopefully we don't
lose too many and Um, you know, just just pictures
on social media's people start to head out in the
woods and maybe look for horns, like a few too
many deadheads showing up. Not Yeah, it's been been a
(02:22):
tough winner on them. Yeah, it's been really difficult. But
uh yeah, things are things are good, good good. So,
like all of our podcasts, we're gonna start off with
a few listener questions I'm gonna throw at you, and
if you have any questions of your own, h that's
to our listeners, feel free to get hold of us
on social media, send us a message, or you can
(02:43):
email us at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com and
we'll do our best to get your questions aired. So
the first question we have is from Alan Rodgers. Um,
he was asking what does your layering system typically look
like for spring Turkey? So I'll let you you take
that one on first and see what you come up with. Yeah,
So typically here we're looking at like, you know, thirty
(03:06):
degrees in the morning, maybe even a little bit colder,
and then getting up like into the fifties. We might
be hitting sixty degrees as we move on in April.
So I typically just wear like a a mid like
a midweight style pant. The cord Get Guide pant is
what I like to use. And then I like the
(03:27):
wick hoodie has been a staple piece for me and
pretty much everything. Um. I really like to have that
little lightweight hood on there. And then I go with
like an Origin hoodie, so just a midweight fleece over
the top of that, and then a catalyst jacket over
the top of that. That pretty much rounds me out.
If it's you know, like dipping into those thirties in
(03:48):
the morning, I'll put like a Brooks vest or like
a lightweight puffy jacket underneath my catalyst jacket. But that
pretty much will We'll get me through that first little
bit of oldness in the morning, and then it seems
to heat up pretty quick and especially if we're moving,
So that's that's what I use. Yeah, and I'm very
similar um, you know, core Get Guide. It seems to
(04:11):
be kind of just my go to pant. And then
if I need to if it's getting really chilly, um,
you know, maybe throw just a wick layer on under it,
you know, just a bass layer on. Um, and uh,
you know, I I will go to just like my
Chamberlain UM you know coat if needed over the top everything.
Of course, we have to cut our noise, you know,
(04:31):
it's it's a little bit of a noisier piece, so
we have to be a little bit more cognizant of
our movement. But very similar to you. Um, you know,
we've got got the hoodie on. Um. I like to
be able to get the wind off my ears, my
neck if needed. Um. You know, I used to wear
the Klamath hoodie, but now it switched to the origin Is.
Things have kind of changed. And then um, you know,
on top of that, we'll we'll either throw the Chamberlain
(04:53):
or if it's not too cold, I'll just stuff it
back and um carried around. You know, usually once the
sun comes up, things warm up a little bit. But yeah,
very very similar. Um. One thing I've been doing also,
it's just like in addition to to the lightweight hoods,
it's just like a gator seems to be a little
bit of a game changer as well for me because
I now use that as my my mask. But it
(05:13):
also helps like just keep that cold air off of
my my neck. So um, I also make sure that
that that net gator kind of goes with me everywhere.
And there's a couple different weights. Yeah, I like the
really light one. Is that the one you use? Yeah, yeah,
that's the one I use the majority of the time.
I do have the heavier one, but um yeah, usually
just that real light one so I can keep it,
(05:35):
you know, around my neck most time. But you know,
I use it for my mask now as well when
it comes time to turkey hunt, and I'll just pulled
up and that acts as my mask, you know, even
though the origin hoodie now does have you know, a
mask that comes out of the hood. I just usually
there's too much a movement. I like to be pretty mobile,
and you know it's usually pull my mask up at
the at the last second, so I don't want to
pull my hood down and you know, get my hat
(05:57):
rearranged as I'm trying to get that mask over. Yeah.
Sweet is a great set up. Yeah yeah. So yeah.
And and there's places where where we know in Northeast Washington,
we're gonna hunt Meriam's and I might dress a little
lighter because I know my my my the first half
hour of my day is going to be climbing a
thousand feet up to a ridge, you know, or or
(06:18):
a spot. So it's just it's depending on where you at.
But I I usually always similar to to big game hunting,
I'm gonna carry that that same kit, and I'm just
adjust throughout the day if i need be all right,
if I need to sweet. Um, next question from David Smith, Um,
should I carry binoculars with me while turkey hunting? And
I'm gonna kick this one to you, but I used
(06:40):
to be I'll let you answer, but uh, I used
to never carry binoculars. Like either if I hear the bird,
I'll kill it and if not, then you know, I'll
see the thing. But um, i'll see if your answer
kind of drives with mine. Yeah, I think some of
it depends on where you're hunting. Like here, it's you know,
we have wooded areas on the river bottom, but otherwise
(07:00):
it's pretty open and there's like big open openings between
the trees. So like it's just fairly conducive to glassing.
So like I'll use glassing a lot, even when locating
birds from a long distance, you know, even like the
night before we go out or whatever. But I do
carry a set with me, but I just go with
(07:22):
like an eight power lightweight, like really compact. You know,
I'm not looking to put them on a tripod and go,
you know, like high power on a tripod or anything
like that. I'm just looking for something with like a
wide field of view, lightweight, easy to carry in my
chest harness, and then like just be able to give
(07:44):
a little look, you know. But uh yeah, I don't
go too crazy on it. But I do like to
carry binoculars. Yep. I was. I was in the camp
of you don't need optics for turkey hunting. You know,
they gobble at you, you know where they're if they're there.
But so many times we started getting busted, and then
I knew I needed binoculars. But then I didn't want
to carry them my big you know what I would
(08:05):
consider my Western hunting binoculars, you know, my big ten
by forty twos, or my range finding binoculars or whatever
I might have. And so I still went a few
more years without carrying them and just kept getting busted.
And now I can't imagine turck hunt without them, you know,
whether I'm crossing you know, food plots in Kansas, and
they need to glass like the other timber edge because
I can't pick things out versus you know, if I'm
(08:25):
hunting in um, you know, more open stuff like eastern Washington, Idaho.
Like we'll just sit on a ridge, you know maybe
and when those birds are in lockdown and they're just
not gobbling, you know, they're just they're hind up, they're
not gonna gobble. Um, we'll just spot them with the
binoculars where it's like you may not have spotted them
with your naked eye across the canyon. Um. You know,
they sometimes are easy to spot. But we've you know,
(08:48):
similar to UM to spot in you know, mule deer
that are in tough to see areas or in the shade. Um,
we're able to just spot turkeys. And that kind of
gets us back in the game. So UM, like you,
I carry a very small eight by thirty twos. They
have a spot in my chest rigg. I can still
carry my calls and UM yeah, I'm I'm always carrying
binoculars with me now when I'm in the Turkey woods.
(09:10):
Sweet the other they're nice to have, man. Yeah, So
that kind of wraps up our our two listener questions.
Once again, if you have questions for us, for my guests,
for myself, UM, please email them to us at CTD
at Phelps Gamecalls dot com and we'll do our best
to get them on here. So now we're gonna kind
(09:39):
of jump into to the discussion. Um, we're gonna talk
kind of stay in your lane. We're gonna talk about
gear for turkeys. Um, you know, we're gonna talk about
you know, seat versus seatpad, turkey vest versus chess regg.
We're gonna dive a little deeper into optics, um, you know,
ground blinds and all of that. But before that, UM,
I want you to give me a little bit of
the lowdown on the gear Talk podcast. I'm I'm maybe
(10:02):
the worst because I don't listen to podcasts, not even
my own. After I've done so, I haven't listened to
any of the gear Talk podcasts. But give me kind
of the what you're doing, where it's going, and what
you you and Janna's hope to accomplish with the podcast
before we jump into our conversation. Yeah. So there. You know,
there's a lot of podcasts out on different networks now
(10:23):
and a lot of times they're hitting gear on like
one episode, but there wasn't a podcast that was really
talking a lot about gear and I think that that's
something that people really like, is they like hearing your
kit and what you're using, and it helps them narrow
down there's so many options on the market, like it
(10:44):
helps them narrow down a little bit, you know, of
what they really actually need to buy. And that's really
what we wanted to do with the podcast was just
have it be a source for that, you know, consume
can go listen and get a little bit better idea
of like what they actually need for an upcoming hunt
(11:08):
and what they can get by without. And then also
just be a really educational platform to how some of
this stuff works. Because a lot of this gear we're
using is super it is technical, and there's a lot
of thought and process that goes into it and new
materials that do different things, and we wanted to give
(11:28):
a platform to be able to have experts on to
talk about breathable laminates and to talk about dwr's for
your outerwear and why it's important to wash those because
it like revital It can revitalize the DWR and just
make your clothing perform a little bit better. So that's
(11:49):
really what the podcast is about. We're doing some stuff,
we got some stuff coming up that's going to be
really interesting. We got soft shell jackets from of course
First Light, but we also have them from qu Sitka
arc ICs, Stone Glacier. So we're gonna do kind of
(12:10):
I don't know if like I don't really think like
a head to head, but we're gonna go through those jackets,
talk about fit, talk about some of the materials that
they use and the ideas behind them, and just give
folks like a hopefully a place to go that they
can be like, hey, I've been looking at these jackets
like these are kind of how they fit. This is
(12:31):
the difference in some of the materials and just the
idea behind like what they built them for. And so yeah,
we're doing things like that with those jackets. We're gonna
do pants, eventually, we're gonna do like backpacks. We're trying
to do like a few different things with it. But
really it's we really wanted to make it to educate
(12:52):
and just you know, be a source of learning so
consumers can like better make a decision on their purchase
nice nicely. I'm we talked a little bit before we
got started here and I'm kind of like a gear
nerd as well, Um, you know, especially early on once
you kind of I feel like once I figured out
my gear, I kind of just settled in and don't
look at the new stuff as much. And that's where
(13:13):
I think like a podcast like Gears, if if if
I was to listen, if I if I was, you know,
somebody that hadn't figured out my gear and didn't want
to spend a bunch of money like we have in
the past to kind of figured out, you could tune
into a podcast like that and just kind of get
the lowdown and people that have you know, touched, felt,
and used all this gear in the field. Um, you know,
(13:33):
maybe maybe save save a few bucks and make sure
that you're getting you know, good gear that other people
have reviewed. Um, you're not everything's gonna work or fit
and function like it does, um, you know for you
and jannat but I think you can get a pretty
good sense on on what's gonna work and and um,
like I say, cuts cuts a lot of costs out
of trying it all for yourself. Yeah, it's been Uh,
(13:56):
it's been fun and we've got a lot of good
feedback on it. So con forward to seeing what it
does good. Yeah, I might I might have to change
my ways and put you guys on like the Spotify
the Spotify playlist, so I can have you guys in
the rotation. Um so no, no, I wish you guys
the best of luck. Um it's on the it's a
meat Eater brand podcast. Uh, it's gear Talk and it's
(14:18):
hosted by Jordan and Joannas. Go check it out if
you're looking at um all their gear reviews. Is it
a does it come out weekly or you guys every
other week? Right now we're in every other week. Yep.
I like that cadence. It seems like sometimes producing these
is tough enough to do every other week. I couldn't
imagine doing it every week like some of our podcasts.
So well, yeah, no, I really appreciate you having having
(14:38):
you on. So now we're going to jump into some
of my discussions. Uh, you know, the discussion I want
to have with you because you honestly have a better
grasp on some of this stuff like ground blinds that
we're going to get into. Um, We've got a good
conversation coming up about boots for tricky hunting and kind
of how I've had to change, you know, the way
I think. So we're gonna jump into it to our conversation.
The first thing I wanted to talk about is are
(14:59):
you a seat person? Are you a seat pad person
kind of? And is your style running gun or if
you're on the ranch there in Nebraska, are you kind
of uh, you know, set up and you know ground
blinds in a in a high seat, you know, kind
of kind of give me your take on that, and
then I'll expand on it with what I found to
be the most comfortable set up. Yeah. So a lot
(15:22):
of times, if I'm hunting myself, I'm probably just archery hunting.
And a lot of times like we uh me in Leah,
my wife, we shot a turkey out of or just
on the ground out in the open with a bow
last year and that was like super fun to be
(15:42):
able to do that. But for the most part, like
I'm probably sitting in a blind for archery season. Um.
But if we're if we're guiding, then I'm like we're
more running gun with a shotgun. Um. I've mostly been
a seat pad person, but now that I've gone to
something more like a chest rig, it's I don't always
(16:03):
grab it. I seem to forget it, so I just
haven't been using one. And when you were talking about
the little chair that you've been using, that's what I
want to hear more about that, because I think that's
what I need to do. Yeah, And so I grew
up with a new turkey vest every year every other
year for some reason, you know, the young guy thinking
that turkey vests mattered or the butt pad was going
(16:24):
to get better. And I still found and maybe it
was me being impatient as a younger hunter, where maybe
I'm finally starting to get a little bit of patience.
But that was my biggest I think my biggest fault
when it came to turkey hunting is I wanted to
move and some of these seat pads, no matter how
thick they are, no matter what tree is sit under,
(16:45):
I think fifteen to twenty minutes in and you're like,
all right, my ass is numb, it's going sore. You're
rocking from your right to your left, and you're thinking
of now you're starting to tell yourself why this plan
isn't gonna work. And you know what, I should get
up and move from this tree because it's because you're uncomfortable.
And I've went through that enough times, went out to
my buddy's place and to hunt in Kansas where we've
(17:07):
been hunting a lot, you know, deer, and we cut
the line one tree down everything out there. So I
have a lot of stories about Kansas, but we go
back there and hunt twice year. My buddy Randy handed
me this this bag that looked just like your normal
you know, foldable beach chair, you know the one you
can buy for fifteen dollars at Walmart. You know, springtime
rolls around, they've got them out in the boxes. But
(17:28):
this was a low to the ground that sits maybe
two or three inches off and they're built a little
bit more sturdy, right, um camouflage. I think that brown
was like Cabella's. So we hunted out of those, and
I'm like, man, I could fall asleep under every tree
that I sit under. It's just super comfortable. It adjust
to a little bit of unevenness, and it just was
(17:49):
a game changer for me and it allowed me to
be a lot more patient. I think the one I'm
using now was like a Browning I don't remember the
exact name, like a Browning strutter hunting chair or something. Um,
it's just it folds out and now that I'm using
a chest rig rather than carrying at my vest. Um,
I just throw it over my shoulder kind of, you know,
(18:11):
I don't cross saddle across my back. And that's just
something I carry everywhere. And when we go to set up,
within about twenty seconds, I can, you know, throw the
thing out, get it set in, and we're we're we're
in place, and it's just allowed long sets. And like
I said, I'm getting more patient. A lot of our
turkey call ins are taken thirty to forty five minutes,
especially when we're hunting in that that time of the
(18:33):
year where the talms are just completely hand up and
aren't moving very fast and they're kind of moving at
their own pace. Um, those little folding chairs are are
We're a game changer for us. And I can't imagine
turkey hunting off of a seat pad or a little
we used to have, like those little hard seats like
the the cordrea was stretched really tight. You know, Um,
(18:55):
those things aren't comfortably. This is this is the best
system I've found. So Um, if you haven't turkey hunted
off of a small folding seat and you don't think
it would change things too much, I highly encourage you
to try it, um, because it's it is a game
changer for me. And like I said, I fell asleep
under a tree more than I ever have, um, you know,
(19:17):
in the past. It's just super comfortable. Um yeah, so
I ditch seatpad. I'm a seat guy now. I like it, Yeah,
and like not to change it from turkeys, but I
think colin kyotes, I've seen people use those two yep.
And uh, well we'll jump into it a little bit
on the tick side as well. But I like getting
(19:38):
myself like another barrier of protection off the ground, um,
you know, and only giving them four legs to climb
up to start to get on, you know, and and
my feet to get on me. Um. So yeah, it
just has it's it's been a good system. Um. And
uh yeah, that's kind of a great segue into seat
versus seat pad and then you know with the chest
(19:59):
rig versus a turkey vest conversation, Um, what's your system currently.
I've never been like a big turkey vest person. Um.
I've had a couple and I just always seem to
end up figuring out how to put stuff in my
pockets enough stuff in my pockets to just make it work. Um.
But then I started using a chest rig and that's
(20:21):
been really nice just to have everything in one spot.
Like I can toss it on, I can still get
in and out of the pickup with it easy. Um,
I don't have to take it off. Everything's just in
one spot. And really, like when I'm done with turkey season,
like the thing gets put on the shelf and then
it's like I pull it off the shelf and pretty
much everything is in there that I need. So yeah,
(20:43):
that's that's what I use. An FHF just the regular
chest rig and then I put in an E four
pouch on the front of it this year just for
a little bit extra space for like my headlamp and
stuff like that. Um. Yeah, but that's been a that's
been a good system for me. Yeah. Are you also
using uh, I'm I'm the most unorganized hunter in the world. Like,
(21:04):
as long as it fits in the pocket, it's good.
So when you look at my chest rigg, it's two
pot calls, my strikers, my locators are all just like
just in there in the bottom right. Are you using
any of the divide like the striker dividers, the shotgun
shell dividers and stuff. HF for you just kind of
if it fits and it zips and you're good to go, zips.
I like it. Yeah, No, I do use that that
(21:27):
turkey I think it's just called like their turkey accessory
kid or whatever. That velcro's in the inside, UM, one
thing that's kind of cool. With the diaphragm U divider deal,
I can like stick it to the inside. But then
with the velcrow the E four pouch has a velcrow
patch on the outside, and so I can unstick that
and I can stick it to the outside if I'm
(21:48):
if I need to just get to my calls more,
if I don't want to just keep my thing open
as I'm running around. Um. But for the most part,
I keep that stuck in. But yeah, I've got it
pretty I've got it pretty organized in there. Yeah. Yeah,
I've they sent me all the Turkey accessories and I
haven't ran it. Um, But I'm gonna try to do
(22:08):
a better job of, you know, setting setting it up.
And I wanted to touch on turkey vest just a
little bit. As I mentioned earlier, I had I had
all kinds of turkey vests growing up. Um, and I
got to the point where I had to have seventeen
pot calls, you know, fourteen strikers. I had two. You know,
it's like you just had to fill up every pocket
and then when it was time to like where did
(22:28):
I put my scour pad or my chalk, You're like, oh,
it's inside the front left pocket, two pockets deep, and
then the zipper that's inside. You know, it's like you
couldn't find anything. And so I think it just comes
with a lot of experience and learning, like, hey, you
probably only need two pot calls, Max, even though I'm
the game call guy, right like I need to have
calls on, may need to be promoting them. But you're like,
(22:50):
I can probably get away with maybe a box calf.
I want to use it on this hunt. Is it
a windy day? Is a big country? If not, maybe
I'll leave my box call the truck or the or
the side by side for that day. So I think
it was just like learning that I didn't need to
have so much stuff on me to turkey hunt. You know,
I can leave the truck with three different mouth diaphragms,
(23:11):
you know, a couple different strikers, maybe a crow call,
maybe a woodpecker call, and my binoculars. And maybe a
couple extra shotgun shells. To be honest, I actually just
been carrying my three shotgun shells in the gun, and
it's do you do I really need to bring a
whole bunch of backups, Like if I do my job,
keep my shots close, like I shouldn't even need to
(23:32):
shoot more than once. So it's just like, yeah, I
don't need to carry a whole extra box of shells anymore.
And the chest rig is just like you said, it's simple.
I grab it at the beginning of the year. It's
got everything I need in it, and I don't have
to carry this big, cumbersome turkey best. The one thing
I wouldn't say it's it's a knock on the chest rigg.
It's just one of the things I don't have a
good solution for. It is like carrying a little bit
(23:53):
of water. I'm not gonna lie like we're not hiking
mountains for turkeys. But it's like, all right, you've been
away from the for three or four hours, like I'm thirsty, Um,
Like what am I doing for water? And usually that's
just you know, a little cheap disposable water bottle like
just shoved in my origin pocket, you know, or something
that's what it ends up being. Um, so that's the
(24:15):
one thing I miss on the turkey best having a
spot for water. And we're going to talk about decoys
here in a little bit, but you know, my turkey
best used to also just to hold all of my
decoys in the back, and now that we're using you know,
some Dave Smith decoys and whatnot, I don't have the
need to carry a bunch of foamies around. So it's
like the vest just really doesn't have a lot of
utility anymore for me. Yeah. Yeah, And I will say
(24:39):
I'm pretty like I like turkey hunting. I don't like
love love love it, so I don't get too crazy.
I keep like my call is pretty simple. I have
like a pot call, and I have mouth diaphragm calls,
even like last year, even guiding people I don't remember.
I think I just like forgot my actual old turkey diaphragms.
(25:01):
I called in at least three birds with an Elk
campre dude. Yeah, and it works like it's super clear,
it's a super clean there's no rasking this to it,
but it works. Yeah. I'm always amazed how many people
we get sending us pictures in what Turkey's killed with
our ELK calls. It's just they're more comfortable. They don't
have to do a whole bunch of professional calling. You know,
(25:22):
it's just it works. It gets a job done. And
you know, even though you know, my job is to
make and sell game calls, like it's really ninety percent
of the equations right place, right time, right mood, right,
it's it's not necessarily the calling does help and finish
them off. But you know, very rarely, Um, you know,
are you is the culling making up the majority of
(25:42):
of you know, the the am on a word that wrong.
The calling isn't very big piece of the pie when
it comes like you're, you know, putting the success together.
It's it's a small portion. And I recognize that. Um
so optics, we talked about it a little bit. Carrying binoculars.
Um do you do you carry like spotters in your truck?
(26:02):
Like not with you for sure? If anybody carries a
spotter white turkey hunting and I want to talk to
you and figure out why. But like in your rig,
are you using anything else? Do you bring range finders
to maybe just check your range? Where you're sittting decoys
up or are kind of what do you look at
as far as like your optics package while you're tricky hunting. Yeah,
(26:23):
for the most part, you know, I'm just carrying those
like an eight power on my chest and then I
will carry a spotting scope in my pickup just to
like really sometimes what I'll do guiding wise is I'll
go put people in a blind in the evening and
then they can just kind of hunt themselves, and then
(26:43):
I'll go and do some scouting try to find birds.
And I can, dude, I've picked out birds in trees
with my spotting scope from like long ways away, like
a mile away, yep. And then it just gives you
an idea of like, all right, well those birds are
like kind of over there, like we can probably you know,
slip in this way or whatever. So that has been
(27:04):
nice for me. Um, something I'm gonna use a little
bit more of uh this year. And not like I
don't want to do super shameless plug for a sig.
But there have you seen their image stabilizing binoculars. I've
looked through them. Yeah, I think um at the Western
un somebody had them last year and looked through them
a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're ten powers, are
(27:26):
super little and super light, and they're like if you're
hand holding all the time like you are often with turkeys,
like that thing is so nice just to steady it up. Cool. Cool. Yeah.
And one thing I used to also not carry was
a range finder and my my rifle one. You know,
I use loophold stuff. So like my twenty eight hundred
(27:48):
was just too much for turkeys, Like right, it's it's
not geared up. So I just grabbed my my full draw.
I think last year I used the four. This year
I'll have the five. But you know what, just any
archery range finder that's good. Um, short distant ranging. Um,
it just helps your setup. You know when you're when
you're out there, you know, if you're on the edge
of a field, your depth perception is off a little bit,
like just making sure you're not shooting too far. You're
(28:10):
you're setups right, Um, So we typically range stuff and
when we set up just real quickly, all right, we
can shoot out to that bush, we can shoot to
that line. Um, we can shoot ten yards past the decoys,
whatever it may be. And it's just just so we
have some confidence and we're not miss miss you know,
ranging something by fifteen twenty yards. Um. Yeah, yeah, that's
(28:31):
it's a great thing to carry with you. Now we're
going to roll into the next Uh. Question I have
for you is on ground blinds, which you you know,
(28:52):
guiding and having you know, customers that you may want
to limit their their movement or somebody that might not
be experienced. Um in the woods. Um, I've never hunted
out of a ground blind, um for turkeys. So what
do you feel about ground blinds? Um? What's where were
they useful? And then maybe where do they have their drawbacks? Yeah,
(29:13):
drawbacks can definitely be just your ability to move is quick. Um,
you kind of have to. And it seems like when
I when I go to hunt in a ground blind,
I bring like the kitchen sink with me because I
feel like I got to sit there for a long time. Um.
But then I always if they're not moving or something,
I always feel like I got to get out and
(29:34):
and get after them. So there's a patience factor there
for sure. Um. But I like ground blinds for especially
if the birds aren't moving, um something that or aren't talking.
Sorry if if they're not talking, Um, I can set
that ground blind up in a spot where I've just
(29:55):
seen turkeys go buy a lot or something like that.
Sometimes like you just got to wait them out. And sometimes,
like you know, clients always come in and they want
that like gobbler running in from a long ways away
and they want to get the whole experience. But the
reality is it just doesn't always happen like that, and
(30:18):
so you got to be able to adjust. So that's
where I see ground blinds really coming in. I put
them in places where I just know that turkey's like
to be or pass through, So if we can't get
them talking, that's always a good place to put somebody,
like in the evenings or the afternoons or whatever. But yeah,
(30:40):
it's just kinda they're nice because you can move around,
You can move around, kind of have more stuff with you,
like if you think that you're gonna especially I think
like on a really small chunk of property where you
can't really you don't really just want to walk through
it and blow it out. Just spending a lot of
time in a ground blind seems to be like just
(31:01):
kind of how the East, you know, more Eastern type
hunting is um just due to parcel size. So, um,
they can be really nice, but I definitely see where
people get impatient and they just don't want to sit there. Yeah,
and then um continue on my uh me not knowing
anything about ground blinds, you can see them for you know,
(31:22):
you see him out there one hundred twenty ninety nine
and then you can see ground blinds at five hundred dollars.
Are you of the opinion that you get what you're
paid for on ground blinds? I know that, like the
space inside may be different, like the shooting windows may
be laid out different. Um even I mean, I'll even
give you a chance, like is there a brand that
you like to use or is it more of those
just a ground blinds of ground blind you. So I've
(31:43):
gone back and forth on this a lot. Um. I
think if you're in a spot where it's really windy
and you're dealing with a lot of winds, um, you're
gonna want a more expensive one. Just it seems like
the poles or b fere where the joints like come
in usually they out those are just better, um, because
(32:03):
the wind just destroys them. That's that's a huge problem
we have here. Like I have muzzloader. Deer hunters in
them a lot, and the winds just kill them. Um, Honestly,
I've I've gone to a I've bought a ton of
those things, and uh, the double bowls just seem to
like be holding strong and it's it's Um they're expensive, man,
(32:26):
They're like four hundred bucks. Um. But they've got some
They've got some really cool ones. Now. I bought one
just this last year for deer hunters that it's like
the sea through but you can't see into it, like
the whole the whole wall in front of you or
the whole two walls in front of you. You You can
completely see through them, um, but they are not supposed
(32:47):
to be able to see in. So like that's super
cool too. It's just kind of fun to sit in
it because you're not just looking through a tiny little
window all the time. That's awesome. I hunted um a
little bit out of them. Um. They were elevated ground blinds,
but the ones in Kansas they had more of like
a metal structure like and then they were screwed down
(33:08):
to like a palette or like a platform. But yeah,
those ones are like frustrating because you would have deer
running from your right and you could hear them and
then they'd pop in front of you. It's like, man,
I wish I could see like I it almost like,
I don't want to say it took away from the experience,
but it did take away from the experience because I
was limited. I can only see, you know, ninety degrees
out in front of me, nothing to my right. But
(33:28):
yet Yeah, so it would be cool to have like
that double bull system you're talking about where you can
actually see through and see everything versus out out you know,
strategic windows that you have opened. So yeah, yeah, pretty cool.
One one quick thing Baronet. There's a company called Baronet
that makes a blind called an OX five and instead
(33:49):
of four you know, usually you usually it's a five
hub blind, so you have four sides and then your top.
This one's actually a six, so you have one more
U The thing is huge. Um so, like people with kids,
like multiple kids, and like they want to sit in
and have a lot of room to like, you know,
have the kids laid down and stuff like that. OXX
(34:10):
five is great and I think it's like three hundred
bucks or something like that. The thanks for educating me
a little bit on ground blinds. Now we're gonna jump
into boots for turkey. Um. You know, as I got started,
it was always just took whatever boots I was MAO
hunting Western big game in um and and those those
kind of got the nod for for turkey hunting. But
you know, the more I've learned, the more I've you know,
(34:33):
got the chance to try different boots. Um, I'm turning
into more of a like a lacrosse like arrowhead type guy. Um.
It seems like every morning the grass is wet, um,
you know when during spring turkey, regardless of whether it's
a clear night or not. What's your boot system, um
for for turkey hunting? And what do you what do
(34:53):
you go with? Yeah, so here we're not really dealing
with like swampy type stuff. In the spring, the ground
like hardens up pretty quick. So I'm kind of the
same honestly, just like even a flexible pair of boots,
like not even really a mountain boot, you know, just
like one that's pretty quiet when you're walking, just like
(35:16):
a comfortable, nice boot. But if I'm using my like
rubber boots and stuff, a lot of times it's really
nice with rubber boots because they're warmer in the morning
and stuff. They're just warmer, and if you do have
to like do a crieker river crossing or something like that,
they're just easier to use that with. But I have
always been like, even for all this ranch stuff, I've
(35:38):
always been a muck boot person, Like that's just always
what I've bought, Like that always seemed to be the
gold standard to me was muck boots. And I recently,
like a couple of years ago, I tried apparel across
that were I don't remember what they were called, but
they were just like a little bulky like they were
pretty much the same as muck I was like, yeah, okay,
(35:59):
that's kind of one and the same. Well, this last
year I got the Arrowhead model from Lacrosse. Dude, it's
like a different situation, Like it's I got the seven
millimeter ones. They make a lighter one too, but it's
supposed to be like negative forty to forty degrees is
what those things are supposed to be good for, like
(36:20):
cold weatherwise, And they're so much more comfortable once you
put them on. It's like a running shoe. Yeah, And
that's that was the reason I always hated rubber boots.
You know, growing up, we just probably had the cheap
ones where if you walk more than you know, out
to your mailbox and back, you had blisters everywhere and
they were just uncomfortable from your your your heel slipping. Um.
I got those arrowhead sports, you know, the same seven
(36:43):
millimeter and it's like I could probably you know, hike
all day in them and not have any issues. I
don't know about going up a mountain for too long,
but that was always the reason I would just go
to go to my my mountain boots. Um. And so yeah,
if if I know I'm not climbing mountains, if I'm
not gonna you know, put on five or six miles
on in a morning or a day turkey hunting, I'm
(37:04):
always gonna go for those, um, you know those knee
high lacrosse boots at this point, you know those type
of boots. Um. Now we were talking a little bit before. Now,
if I'm showing up in my spot northeast Washington, where
it's public ground, it's super rugged. Your day near you know,
mule deer or sheep hunting for turkeys, Um, I'm still
gonna lace up my my mountain boots. Because it's it's
(37:27):
just kind of matching the terrain you're in. But um, yeah,
if you haven't tried, you know, like like say, I'm
not not trying to give any specific brand or company
a plug, but those Lacrosse arrowheads, Um, they're they're a
legit boot that you can cover some ground in and
they're super comfortable. Um, it's it's nice, Like you say,
they're warmer, I know my feet aren't gonna get wet, um,
(37:49):
and they just they're they're a good boot and you
know we're gonna get into ticks here in a little bit.
The other thing is that's nice, um, is that they're
they're a tall boot. You know, they cover more of
your they they give kind of and if you tuck
your your pants in, it gives like access for ticks
is a very difficult path. Yeah that's a really good
point man. Um Yeah, those those boots. I I go
(38:13):
through this thing, like just to mention it real quick.
Every time I put them on, I'm like, are these
lighter than the other ones? And I'll weigh them and
they weighed pretty much the same, but just the way
that they fit, they just seem like nimble and lighter.
I can't explain it, but I'm just like I've been
blown away the last couple of weeks season them. Yeah, no,
they're legit. So if you you're going out trick hunting, UM,
(38:35):
don't don't um discredit rubber boots. Um that they they've
got their place for sure. So uh, ticks one of
the things that used to just drive me nuts. They
still drive me nuts, but we've kind of got them
under wrap. Um, every every year I came back from Kansas,
I've been bit or had ticks some kind of stuck
in me. So yeah, it's it's it bothers me. My
(38:58):
little funny story. I cannot get my boy to youth
turkey hunt. And it's not just a it's not just
he's scared of ticks. It's like a serious phobia. Like
if my dog comes in the house with a tick,
like my kids like running through glass doors to get
out the other side of the house. Like it's it's legit. So, um,
ticks and what do we what do we do to
(39:18):
fix it? And I'll let you go. And now I've
got kind of a gross little story about um what
what what happened to me last year in Kansas? So
what do you go to prevent ticks. Um, there's I
think there's like the chemical side, and then there's what
I would consider like housekeeping before you sit down, before
you do this or that, like you can prevent a
(39:38):
lot of this from happening. Yeah. I we don't have
a huge tick problem here, like they're definitely around. Um,
but you know the story you're gonna tell. I don't
think we have anything. I've never seen anything quiet like
that here. Um. But I've got the just the basic
like the off or the sawyer stuff in the house
(40:00):
where it's just like a ticker or repellent, just spray
it on the outside of your clothes. Um. I've done
that a little bit. It seems like if I haven't
really seen any ticks, I just kind of forget to
do it, and then I don't do it. Um. I
do just when I get home, though, I try to
like look through all my clothes and just do like
a body check and make sure that there's none stuck
(40:20):
to me. Um. But I'm really interested to hear what
you guys say about ticks. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, chemical wise,
like we use sawyer or repel like aerosol. Um. I
think I think it's mixed like a half percent permethrin. UM.
I know you can get higher concentrations off of like
Amazon and stuff. I'm I am in no way doning
(40:41):
like the safety of that here on the podcast, but
there are ways to get it in like higher concentration.
But yeah, we we lay out all of our gear. Um,
when we get to where we're going, we spray it down.
I think it lasts like two weeks and it makes
it through washings and Whatnotum, So that's really helped. I
would I got. I got like some. I sprayed my
gaiter last year because I was always worried like if
(41:02):
something landed on my shoulder it came off the tree.
I wouldn't recommend like necessarily spray it on your gaiter
and breathing through it for long periods of time. But yeah,
the chemical treatment does great. But yeah, last year in Kansas,
our buddy Chris Parrish was the last one with a tag,
and me and Dirk set up maybe thirty yards behind
him into the woods to help do some just some
supplemental calling occasionally and set up in my seat kind
(41:26):
of set up in a bunch of oak leaves, and
I could see that I always wear my gaiters as
well as another if I'm wearing leather boots or I'm
not wearing my rubber boots, like I still I just
want those ticks to have like a crazy path to
get on me, you know, if possible. We're sitting there
and I start to see some ticks like crawling up
my leg. Like visually, I'm like, this is interesting. But
(41:48):
you could watch them get to like your knee, and
they get kind of almost what I would consider drunk.
They were like they would start walking crooked, and then
they'd walk to the side of your pant and like
literally just fall to the ground like permeteran was killing
them by time they got to my knee, and then
they were I must have sat in a nest, a
nymph nest or a midge nest. Like they were mostly babies,
(42:11):
but I had a couple of big ones. And then
I realized that I was sitting in a lone star
tick nest, which is it for those that don't know,
those are the ones that carry the alpha gal syndrome.
Were when they bite you. When they bite you, you
could no longer eat red meat. So now I no
longer cared if Chris Parrish ever killed a turkey. I
was getting up and moving once I put it all together.
(42:35):
But yeah, and just it's not my place to tell
everybody about that. But my research that I did is
you got about a three percent chance if a lone
star tick bites you, that you're gonna get that alpha gal.
And I'm like, it's not worth it. So I picked
up my seat. You know some things I could have
did there better, like cleaned out the area when I
first sat down, you know, get rid of all of
(42:56):
those oak leaves, and gave myself, you know, maybe a
six by six area to sit down, which maybe would
have helped. But yeah, that permeteran I said one hundred
ticks earlier. I bet you I probably had, realistically fifty
to sixty climb up my leg and none of them
made it past my knee. So the permethrin works. Um,
(43:18):
it works well. Like I said, I was always worried
about something coming into my neck area, so I sprayed
my gator down, which is always kind of tucked in there,
and I didn't feel real good after a couple of days.
And I don't know if it was that or maybe
I was sick, but I'm definitely not a medical doctor,
but permetern works. UM. Everything else is like just extra
precautions like tucking you know, a shirt in into your
(43:39):
pants and cinching your belt up pretty tight. Like we
talked earlier rubber boots put your pants inside so they
didn't have to you know a long way around. UM,
I've even went to you know, putting like elastic velcro
straps like around my wrist just to keep things really tight.
Just just extra precautions, not necessarily gear related, but just
(44:00):
prevent any of that stuff from happening. So we talked
a little bit earlier about vest versus chest riggs. We
kind of talked about where vests maybe we're a little
bit better carrying decoys are you? Are you bringing decoys
in every turkey hunting situation or there's certain setups we're
going to bring them. And then what what decoys do
you tend to use? You know, for the most part
(44:24):
we're especially during shotgun season, I'm just like not using one.
We'll try to do that. We'll just try to not
use one. UM just helps you like move setups quicker.
And then sometimes I mean, I don't know, maybe if
it's just a way that I set set them up,
but sometimes many they might see a decoy and then
(44:47):
just skirt you like they don't won't commit to it
for some reason. Um, so that deal. But I just
have a DSD hen that I use most of the time. Um,
I've got some other cheaper one, uh that are like
a Jake you could put a fan on it. Um.
I gotta be honest, I don't like super Nerd out
(45:08):
about all the different setups and all that stuff. I've
got the hen that those ones from DSD like they
look so realistic, like pretty realistic looking hen like finding
a decoy. That's pretty much what I'm using. Yeah, I've
been able. I've got a buddy that, um, Eric Broughton
who's on the podcast last week. He's got a couple
of like real life stuffer hens um we're in. I've
(45:31):
seen but just like you, I've seen them not working
situations where I almost wonder if we didn't have any
decoy out, if we would, it would have worked better.
You always hear about people like with a Jake and
a breeding Hin setup, and I just feel like at
times they they have worked, you know, maybe even like
detrimental to the situation. But then like last year in Kansas,
(45:53):
we were on a field edge. We we kind of
crawled out there. We knew there were turkeys on the
other end, set up our decoys and that was the
only reason. You know, calling worked a little bit, but
it was a visual that got those birds all the
way to us. So I think they definitely have their place.
And and like you, um, I've got a Dave Smith
deco one of the hands and then a jake and
(46:13):
you know, we can put the fan on and there's
just times where we'll use it in times where we don't.
We usually always carry them around with us for the
most part, but um, you know when we're running and
gunn and like like I said, I'm already carrying a
chair and then now you've got like the hard decoy
bags over your shoulders, like you can make it happen.
But um, yeah, I'm I guess I'm I'm not bias
(46:36):
either way. Like we usually carry them, we sometimes use them,
sometimes we don't. I think they can be a great asset,
especially where um, if the birds aren't real callable and
you think that that visuals that's gonna work, like, well,
we definitely throw them out there nice. So we're gonna
talk about weapons in the in the gear that we
ultimately use to kill the turkey. You're gonna touch on archery,
(46:58):
and then I'm gonna go over just uh, real quick
kind of what I use as far as my setup
and you know, as far as like patterning and stuff
like that. But you're you're an archery turkey hunter. What
do you use? Are using like special broadheads? Are you
lightning your setup? Kind of give us, give us the
lowdown on an archery setup specifically for turkey. Yeah. The
only thing that I change with turkeys is I will
(47:20):
put an expandable broadhead on it. Um just seems to
I don't know, just it seemed to work a little
bit better for me for turkeys. UM, so it opens
them up pretty good. I have the Grim Reaper. They
have a white Tail Hybrid. It's like a two I
think it's a two and a half inch cutting diameter. UM.
That has been a really nice one for me. And
(47:42):
they're honestly, they're turkeys are small and they're easy to
miss with archery equipment, so UM, I tend to not
want a super expensive broadhead up there. So those ones,
you know, they're your basic like forty bucks a pack
or whatever for three of them. Um, So I snag though,
that's pretty much all I change. Um, I don't do
(48:03):
like a big change difference in my archery set up
from turkeys to like uh target shooting, you know, like
three D season to then going into you know, elk season.
I don't really change anything up like that. But the
broadhead is something I do change. Gotcha. So you're just
using more of what we consider like a big game expandable.
(48:23):
You're not going to like the you know whatever, the
turkey guillotines or like these big four inch cutting diam
You're you're just sticking with something that's more accurate and
smaller expandable. Yeah. Yeah, because honestly, sometimes man like especially
if we're doing a running gun archery setup, that's like
way different, more difficult. You're shooting these things at forty
(48:44):
yards to um, they're not you know three yards from
the from the blind, where I think those guillotines could
really be uh, where they're more like it's likely to
actually work. Um ye. So yeah, it that expandable seems
to work good for me, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. And then
(49:04):
I've I've always felt like turkeys were designed to be
shot with a shotgun. So I just I just haven't
picked my bow up and taking them yet. But I
really like having like a semi automatic shotgunning. I hunted
with a pump forever when UM I first got going,
it's what I could afford. I really liked recoil management. UM.
Some of these turkey loads UM really kind of thump you,
(49:26):
UM when you go to pull the trigger. It's not
so much while you're hunting, it's it's more of the
patterning and whatnot. But I'm using the weather be currently
great gun. UM. I really I kind of got away
from like changing AMMO and tinkering with my setup for
a long time because my old gun shot so well.
When I got a new gun, I'm like, oh, now
we can get a new choke, we can get new ammo.
(49:47):
UM did a bunch of research found that Indian Creek
seemed to have a great following and like a great UM.
You know, they were shooting great patterns and they were
really kind of designing for TSS. I know a lot
of the guys within the Meater crew were using Carlton
chokes with great success. So I screwed into Indian Creek
(50:07):
and then I went to TSS ended up. You know,
we used to have like a meat eater had like
a five seven eight mix or something, and I ended
up just going with a peer number nine. I wanted
more babies, and I didn't have any intention of shooting
the past fifty yards and TSS nine is fully capable
out to fifty And so that combination of being able
(50:31):
to drop down to a three inch magnum instead of
a three and a half inch which I was shooting
out of my old pump gun, that choke and that pattern,
like it is an incredible I've never hunted with the
red dot and was able to kind of you know,
throw that on, and it's just I almost feel like
it's cheating a little bit, like the gun is just automatic,
you know. And I've got the problem of a of
(50:52):
a twenty yard bird now of me missing if I
don't do everything right. So that's the one downside. Yeah, Yeah,
I we're shooting like a I don't know, a six
inch circle. It seems like at about twenty, you know,
with just a few a few errant babies. But yeah,
there's all kinds of way. I'm not gonna tell you
how to hunt but I would say, you know, get
comfortable with what turkeys can pick up and seeing like
(51:13):
maybe you know your first bird or two with a shotgun,
and then once you've kind of got that down and
what you can get away with like I'm one of
these days, I just need to pick up my bow.
But and then archery hunting, like you had said earlier,
having success archery hunting for turkeys outside of a blind
is like one of those ultimate, you know, ultimate accomplishments
(51:34):
because they've got such good eyesight and getting your bow
drawn is incredibly tough. Yeah, it seems like the best
time to do it is coming right up when archery
season is starting just here in about a week. The
twenty fifth, I think is when we open here, they're
just all in big groups. So then you got a
ton of hands that are like looking around. So yeah,
(51:57):
we uh we locked out with that. I just gotten
in a pissing match with the hen and got her
to bring the whole crew in. Bye. And then did
they did they pick you up when you drew or
did were you completely like yep? Yeah, they ended up
I'm not joking, man. There were at least twelve hens
in that flock, and they were like they were feet
(52:20):
away from us, just pecking at the ground. I don't
understand how they didn't see us, because you know, I
was on my Leah was sitting down like kind of
on her knees but on her butt, and I was
just standing up on my knees beside her with a
camera and I was almost laughing because they were so close.
I was like, how is this even happening? But they
(52:43):
ended up, Yeah, they came in. She ended up shooting
him at probably fifteen yards maybe just strutted right by us.
We kind of waited until they all got by us
before she drew. But yeah, they picked us up when
we drew, that's for sure. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool.
So Um and then last thing with gear, which um
this is gonna be a shameless plug for sure, is calls. Right.
(53:05):
You know, everybody when you think of spring turkey hunting,
everybody's got calls in their hand. You know. The whole
idea is to interact, and um, you know we we
bring we've got our al calls, we've got our crow
calls for locators, we've got our meat eater x belps
turkey lineup. Um. One thing I just wanted to highlight here,
which I feel is worth mentioning is if you haven't
checked out like our small batch UM pot calls or
(53:29):
our small batch m al hooters. We joined up with
James Harrison and Steve Morgans during this year. UM. I
wanted to just build the absolute best sounding, UM, most
durable UH Turkey calls we could, and so Steve Morganster
knocked it out of the park. UM gave us some recommendations,
really tweaked the specs on on some pot calls for us.
So we have an aluminum inside an osage, but we
(53:51):
went with a lot thicker aluminum than most people use
on their calls UM, and that aluminum is just a
smoking call. And then we built a green slate UM
inside of a teak pot and teak is just one
of those woods that's you know, it's a reason why
it's used in marine applications all the time. It's you know,
extremely durable, decay resistant, rot resistant UM. And then green
(54:13):
slate is is an amazing UM you know surface to
be used. And then UM Steve assembled all of those,
tested them all UM and and those those pot calls,
in my opinion, are as good as it gets um,
and then we joined up with James Harrison to design
those Alhooters, which I think at the at the time
this uh podcast airs, we're going to be sold out
(54:34):
and we hope to have a restock here. But those
al calls are just at a different level. Um, they
they're very very good. Um. So yeah, that's kind of
the big change, uh, you know, or the additions this year,
um in the phelps Turkey lineup, and then um, yeah,
if you need to get your calls, um, they are
in stock and Turkey season getting close. So in closing,
(55:04):
what does one tip you feel would give Turkey hunters
better odds at finding success this year? Uh? You know,
from a pure filling your tag success standpoint, don't be
afraid to switch things up kind of like I was
talking about if if they're not talking for some reason
or another, like it just you might not be able
(55:25):
to change that. So I think a combination I don't
be afraid to change things up and patience. Yeah, that
can both really help. Yeah, and that's a great tip.
Like as much as especially me going out there, it's
to use the calls. But one time we just hit
it wrong in Kansas where we could see birds, and
(55:45):
we were hitting in with every locator we had. They
had no intention of ever making a sound. Well, it's
like the hens were feeding down to us, and it's like, well,
I'm not opposed to shooting one when it walks by us, right,
And so it's just like changing your strategy. Like we
could have probably sat there and called and we would
have scared them off, or those hands would have changed
their pattern. But it's like all right, well, just you
almost have to play with what the rules that you're given,
(56:08):
right or the playing field that you're given, Like, this
is what they're going to give us. We've only got
so much time in so many days. Um, I'm not
opposed to shooting when when it walks by. So um,
it's just outsmarting them. But yeah, be patient, um, and
and change your strategy. Don't just go in with you know,
one way's got to work. Yep, Yeah, absolutely. I think
that's where, like you know, your ground blind can come in.
(56:30):
Just being able to chill there and be a little
bit more comfortable and move around a little bit more
while you're being patient can help um a little bit.
But you know, then there's there's certainly people that just
want to shoot, they want to have that interaction and
they're just going to move around until they find the interaction.
I mean really no different to Helk you know. Um
(56:50):
so yeah, I guess it kind of depends what you want.
But yeah, yeah, Well we really appreciate you having or
having you on the show today, Jordan. How can people
find out more about you, you know, through social media
or you know gear Talk podcast or where they can
they can find you? Yeah, so Instagram, it's just at
Jordan dot bud on Instagram. And then I've got a
(57:12):
YouTube channel as well. I've been kicking out some stuff
that we've been filming on our fall hunts. So that's
just Jordan budd On on YouTube. And yeah, the gear
Talk podcast, I find it wherever you get your podcasts.
All right, perfect, Thanks for coming on. Good luck out
there in Nebraska this year, and we'll we'll touch base
with you here middle of the season and see how
you're doing. Yeah, I appreciate you. Jason Things
Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today's guests. Grew up
in Nebraska as a ranch kid and started hunting deer, turkeys,
and calling Kyle's at a very young age. In high school,
Jordan Bud taught herself how to run a camera and
begin filming her friends and her own hunts, which grew
into profession when she started filming the Western hunts for sheep,
elk and mill Gear. This also allowed her a lot
of time in the field and was a great platform
(00:35):
for her to test equipment, so along with filming the hunts,
she also started to write gear reviews. This has all
led to her current position with Meat Eater producing content
testing gear and now she is the co host of
the gear Talk podcast that she works with Jannis Patellas on.
Aside from the media, she also runs an outfitting business
in Nebraska on the ramps that she grew up in
called Running Water Hunting, where she guides and hunts for
(00:57):
deer and Mariam's turkey. Welcome to the show, Jordan's thanks Jason,
thanks for having me on. Man. How's everything going? Things are?
Things are good, They're warming up, snows melting. I'm in Nebraska.
How's everything going? Things are. Things are good. They're warming up,
(01:19):
snows melting. Um. I'm in Nebraska currently helping out with
some ranch stuff and then getting ready for turkey season,
and I was a little worried about all the snow
we had, but it seems to be melting and and
been seeing a lot of birds, so I'm excited to
get out there. Yeah. So you're talking a lot of
snow in Nebraska as well as Idaho. Yeah, and it
(01:39):
pretty much. I've been here for about a week and
about the time I left Idaho it really cut loose
and started snowing there. So um, yeah, it's been a
little bit of a shift. Yeah. Yeah, it looks I've
seen pictures and it looks like people are trying to
dig themselves out in a few places in Idaho and Montana.
And uh, you know, turkeys, turkeys hunting is gonna be interesting.
(02:01):
I think I think your snow line is going to
be a lot lower. But I'm starting to really worry
for our deer and elk. You know, I've seen lots
of videos and you know, Utah and Idaho and people
often to do some supplemental feeding, so hopefully we don't
lose too many and Um, you know, just just pictures
on social media's people start to head out in the
woods and maybe look for horns, like a few too
many deadheads showing up. Not Yeah, it's been been a
(02:22):
tough winner on them. Yeah, it's been really difficult. But
uh yeah, things are things are good, good good. So,
like all of our podcasts, we're gonna start off with
a few listener questions I'm gonna throw at you, and
if you have any questions of your own, h that's
to our listeners, feel free to get hold of us
on social media, send us a message, or you can
(02:43):
email us at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com and
we'll do our best to get your questions aired. So
the first question we have is from Alan Rodgers. Um,
he was asking what does your layering system typically look
like for spring Turkey? So I'll let you you take
that one on first and see what you come up with. Yeah,
So typically here we're looking at like, you know, thirty
(03:06):
degrees in the morning, maybe even a little bit colder,
and then getting up like into the fifties. We might
be hitting sixty degrees as we move on in April.
So I typically just wear like a a mid like
a midweight style pant. The cord Get Guide pant is
what I like to use. And then I like the
(03:27):
wick hoodie has been a staple piece for me and
pretty much everything. Um. I really like to have that
little lightweight hood on there. And then I go with
like an Origin hoodie, so just a midweight fleece over
the top of that, and then a catalyst jacket over
the top of that. That pretty much rounds me out.
If it's you know, like dipping into those thirties in
(03:48):
the morning, I'll put like a Brooks vest or like
a lightweight puffy jacket underneath my catalyst jacket. But that
pretty much will We'll get me through that first little
bit of oldness in the morning, and then it seems
to heat up pretty quick and especially if we're moving,
So that's that's what I use. Yeah, and I'm very
similar um, you know, core Get Guide. It seems to
(04:11):
be kind of just my go to pant. And then
if I need to if it's getting really chilly, um,
you know, maybe throw just a wick layer on under it,
you know, just a bass layer on. Um, and uh,
you know, I I will go to just like my
Chamberlain UM you know coat if needed over the top everything.
Of course, we have to cut our noise, you know,
(04:31):
it's it's a little bit of a noisier piece, so
we have to be a little bit more cognizant of
our movement. But very similar to you. Um, you know,
we've got got the hoodie on. Um. I like to
be able to get the wind off my ears, my
neck if needed. Um. You know, I used to wear
the Klamath hoodie, but now it switched to the origin Is.
Things have kind of changed. And then um, you know,
on top of that, we'll we'll either throw the Chamberlain
(04:53):
or if it's not too cold, I'll just stuff it
back and um carried around. You know, usually once the
sun comes up, things warm up a little bit. But yeah,
very very similar. Um. One thing I've been doing also,
it's just like in addition to to the lightweight hoods,
it's just like a gator seems to be a little
bit of a game changer as well for me because
I now use that as my my mask. But it
(05:13):
also helps like just keep that cold air off of
my my neck. So um, I also make sure that
that that net gator kind of goes with me everywhere.
And there's a couple different weights. Yeah, I like the
really light one. Is that the one you use? Yeah, yeah,
that's the one I use the majority of the time.
I do have the heavier one, but um yeah, usually
just that real light one so I can keep it,
(05:35):
you know, around my neck most time. But you know,
I use it for my mask now as well when
it comes time to turkey hunt, and I'll just pulled
up and that acts as my mask, you know, even
though the origin hoodie now does have you know, a
mask that comes out of the hood. I just usually
there's too much a movement. I like to be pretty mobile,
and you know it's usually pull my mask up at
the at the last second, so I don't want to
pull my hood down and you know, get my hat
(05:57):
rearranged as I'm trying to get that mask over. Yeah.
Sweet is a great set up. Yeah yeah. So yeah.
And and there's places where where we know in Northeast Washington,
we're gonna hunt Meriam's and I might dress a little
lighter because I know my my my the first half
hour of my day is going to be climbing a
thousand feet up to a ridge, you know, or or
(06:18):
a spot. So it's just it's depending on where you at.
But I I usually always similar to to big game hunting,
I'm gonna carry that that same kit, and I'm just
adjust throughout the day if i need be all right,
if I need to sweet. Um, next question from David Smith, Um,
should I carry binoculars with me while turkey hunting? And
I'm gonna kick this one to you, but I used
(06:40):
to be I'll let you answer, but uh, I used
to never carry binoculars. Like either if I hear the bird,
I'll kill it and if not, then you know, I'll
see the thing. But um, i'll see if your answer
kind of drives with mine. Yeah, I think some of
it depends on where you're hunting. Like here, it's you know,
we have wooded areas on the river bottom, but otherwise
(07:00):
it's pretty open and there's like big open openings between
the trees. So like it's just fairly conducive to glassing.
So like I'll use glassing a lot, even when locating
birds from a long distance, you know, even like the
night before we go out or whatever. But I do
carry a set with me, but I just go with
(07:22):
like an eight power lightweight, like really compact. You know,
I'm not looking to put them on a tripod and go,
you know, like high power on a tripod or anything
like that. I'm just looking for something with like a
wide field of view, lightweight, easy to carry in my
chest harness, and then like just be able to give
(07:44):
a little look, you know. But uh yeah, I don't
go too crazy on it. But I do like to
carry binoculars. Yep. I was. I was in the camp
of you don't need optics for turkey hunting. You know,
they gobble at you, you know where they're if they're there.
But so many times we started getting busted, and then
I knew I needed binoculars. But then I didn't want
to carry them my big you know what I would
(08:05):
consider my Western hunting binoculars, you know, my big ten
by forty twos, or my range finding binoculars or whatever
I might have. And so I still went a few
more years without carrying them and just kept getting busted.
And now I can't imagine turck hunt without them, you know,
whether I'm crossing you know, food plots in Kansas, and
they need to glass like the other timber edge because
I can't pick things out versus you know, if I'm
(08:25):
hunting in um, you know, more open stuff like eastern Washington, Idaho.
Like we'll just sit on a ridge, you know maybe
and when those birds are in lockdown and they're just
not gobbling, you know, they're just they're hind up, they're
not gonna gobble. Um, we'll just spot them with the
binoculars where it's like you may not have spotted them
with your naked eye across the canyon. Um. You know,
they sometimes are easy to spot. But we've you know,
(08:48):
similar to UM to spot in you know, mule deer
that are in tough to see areas or in the shade. Um,
we're able to just spot turkeys. And that kind of
gets us back in the game. So UM, like you,
I carry a very small eight by thirty twos. They
have a spot in my chest rigg. I can still
carry my calls and UM yeah, I'm I'm always carrying
binoculars with me now when I'm in the Turkey woods.
(09:10):
Sweet the other they're nice to have, man. Yeah, So
that kind of wraps up our our two listener questions.
Once again, if you have questions for us, for my guests,
for myself, UM, please email them to us at CTD
at Phelps Gamecalls dot com and we'll do our best
to get them on here. So now we're gonna kind
(09:39):
of jump into to the discussion. Um, we're gonna talk
kind of stay in your lane. We're gonna talk about
gear for turkeys. Um, you know, we're gonna talk about
you know, seat versus seatpad, turkey vest versus chess regg.
We're gonna dive a little deeper into optics, um, you know,
ground blinds and all of that. But before that, UM,
I want you to give me a little bit of
the lowdown on the gear Talk podcast. I'm I'm maybe
(10:02):
the worst because I don't listen to podcasts, not even
my own. After I've done so, I haven't listened to
any of the gear Talk podcasts. But give me kind
of the what you're doing, where it's going, and what
you you and Janna's hope to accomplish with the podcast
before we jump into our conversation. Yeah. So there. You know,
there's a lot of podcasts out on different networks now
(10:23):
and a lot of times they're hitting gear on like
one episode, but there wasn't a podcast that was really
talking a lot about gear and I think that that's
something that people really like, is they like hearing your
kit and what you're using, and it helps them narrow
down there's so many options on the market, like it
(10:44):
helps them narrow down a little bit, you know, of
what they really actually need to buy. And that's really
what we wanted to do with the podcast was just
have it be a source for that, you know, consume
can go listen and get a little bit better idea
of like what they actually need for an upcoming hunt
(11:08):
and what they can get by without. And then also
just be a really educational platform to how some of
this stuff works. Because a lot of this gear we're
using is super it is technical, and there's a lot
of thought and process that goes into it and new
materials that do different things, and we wanted to give
(11:28):
a platform to be able to have experts on to
talk about breathable laminates and to talk about dwr's for
your outerwear and why it's important to wash those because
it like revital It can revitalize the DWR and just
make your clothing perform a little bit better. So that's
(11:49):
really what the podcast is about. We're doing some stuff,
we got some stuff coming up that's going to be
really interesting. We got soft shell jackets from of course
First Light, but we also have them from qu Sitka
arc ICs, Stone Glacier. So we're gonna do kind of
(12:10):
I don't know if like I don't really think like
a head to head, but we're gonna go through those jackets,
talk about fit, talk about some of the materials that
they use and the ideas behind them, and just give
folks like a hopefully a place to go that they
can be like, hey, I've been looking at these jackets
like these are kind of how they fit. This is
(12:31):
the difference in some of the materials and just the
idea behind like what they built them for. And so yeah,
we're doing things like that with those jackets. We're gonna
do pants, eventually, we're gonna do like backpacks. We're trying
to do like a few different things with it. But
really it's we really wanted to make it to educate
(12:52):
and just you know, be a source of learning so
consumers can like better make a decision on their purchase
nice nicely. I'm we talked a little bit before we
got started here and I'm kind of like a gear
nerd as well, Um, you know, especially early on once
you kind of I feel like once I figured out
my gear, I kind of just settled in and don't
look at the new stuff as much. And that's where
(13:13):
I think like a podcast like Gears, if if if
I was to listen, if I if I was, you know,
somebody that hadn't figured out my gear and didn't want
to spend a bunch of money like we have in
the past to kind of figured out, you could tune
into a podcast like that and just kind of get
the lowdown and people that have you know, touched, felt,
and used all this gear in the field. Um, you know,
(13:33):
maybe maybe save save a few bucks and make sure
that you're getting you know, good gear that other people
have reviewed. Um, you're not everything's gonna work or fit
and function like it does, um, you know for you
and jannat but I think you can get a pretty
good sense on on what's gonna work and and um,
like I say, cuts cuts a lot of costs out
of trying it all for yourself. Yeah, it's been Uh,
(13:56):
it's been fun and we've got a lot of good
feedback on it. So con forward to seeing what it
does good. Yeah, I might I might have to change
my ways and put you guys on like the Spotify
the Spotify playlist, so I can have you guys in
the rotation. Um so no, no, I wish you guys
the best of luck. Um it's on the it's a
meat Eater brand podcast. Uh, it's gear Talk and it's
(14:18):
hosted by Jordan and Joannas. Go check it out if
you're looking at um all their gear reviews. Is it
a does it come out weekly or you guys every
other week? Right now we're in every other week. Yep.
I like that cadence. It seems like sometimes producing these
is tough enough to do every other week. I couldn't
imagine doing it every week like some of our podcasts.
So well, yeah, no, I really appreciate you having having
(14:38):
you on. So now we're going to jump into some
of my discussions. Uh, you know, the discussion I want
to have with you because you honestly have a better
grasp on some of this stuff like ground blinds that
we're going to get into. Um, We've got a good
conversation coming up about boots for tricky hunting and kind
of how I've had to change, you know, the way
I think. So we're gonna jump into it to our conversation.
The first thing I wanted to talk about is are
(14:59):
you a seat person? Are you a seat pad person
kind of? And is your style running gun or if
you're on the ranch there in Nebraska, are you kind
of uh, you know, set up and you know ground
blinds in a in a high seat, you know, kind
of kind of give me your take on that, and
then I'll expand on it with what I found to
be the most comfortable set up. Yeah. So a lot
(15:22):
of times, if I'm hunting myself, I'm probably just archery hunting.
And a lot of times like we uh me in Leah,
my wife, we shot a turkey out of or just
on the ground out in the open with a bow
last year and that was like super fun to be
(15:42):
able to do that. But for the most part, like
I'm probably sitting in a blind for archery season. Um.
But if we're if we're guiding, then I'm like we're
more running gun with a shotgun. Um. I've mostly been
a seat pad person, but now that I've gone to
something more like a chest rig, it's I don't always
(16:03):
grab it. I seem to forget it, so I just
haven't been using one. And when you were talking about
the little chair that you've been using, that's what I
want to hear more about that, because I think that's
what I need to do. Yeah, And so I grew
up with a new turkey vest every year every other
year for some reason, you know, the young guy thinking
that turkey vests mattered or the butt pad was going
(16:24):
to get better. And I still found and maybe it
was me being impatient as a younger hunter, where maybe
I'm finally starting to get a little bit of patience.
But that was my biggest I think my biggest fault
when it came to turkey hunting is I wanted to
move and some of these seat pads, no matter how
thick they are, no matter what tree is sit under,
(16:45):
I think fifteen to twenty minutes in and you're like,
all right, my ass is numb, it's going sore. You're
rocking from your right to your left, and you're thinking
of now you're starting to tell yourself why this plan
isn't gonna work. And you know what, I should get
up and move from this tree because it's because you're uncomfortable.
And I've went through that enough times, went out to
my buddy's place and to hunt in Kansas where we've
(17:07):
been hunting a lot, you know, deer, and we cut
the line one tree down everything out there. So I
have a lot of stories about Kansas, but we go
back there and hunt twice year. My buddy Randy handed
me this this bag that looked just like your normal
you know, foldable beach chair, you know the one you
can buy for fifteen dollars at Walmart. You know, springtime
rolls around, they've got them out in the boxes. But
(17:28):
this was a low to the ground that sits maybe
two or three inches off and they're built a little
bit more sturdy, right, um camouflage. I think that brown
was like Cabella's. So we hunted out of those, and
I'm like, man, I could fall asleep under every tree
that I sit under. It's just super comfortable. It adjust
to a little bit of unevenness, and it just was
(17:49):
a game changer for me and it allowed me to
be a lot more patient. I think the one I'm
using now was like a Browning I don't remember the
exact name, like a Browning strutter hunting chair or something. Um,
it's just it folds out and now that I'm using
a chest rig rather than carrying at my vest. Um,
I just throw it over my shoulder kind of, you know,
(18:11):
I don't cross saddle across my back. And that's just
something I carry everywhere. And when we go to set up,
within about twenty seconds, I can, you know, throw the
thing out, get it set in, and we're we're we're
in place, and it's just allowed long sets. And like
I said, I'm getting more patient. A lot of our
turkey call ins are taken thirty to forty five minutes,
especially when we're hunting in that that time of the
(18:33):
year where the talms are just completely hand up and
aren't moving very fast and they're kind of moving at
their own pace. Um, those little folding chairs are are
We're a game changer for us. And I can't imagine
turkey hunting off of a seat pad or a little
we used to have, like those little hard seats like
the the cordrea was stretched really tight. You know, Um,
(18:55):
those things aren't comfortably. This is this is the best
system I've found. So Um, if you haven't turkey hunted
off of a small folding seat and you don't think
it would change things too much, I highly encourage you
to try it, um, because it's it is a game
changer for me. And like I said, I fell asleep
under a tree more than I ever have, um, you know,
(19:17):
in the past. It's just super comfortable. Um yeah, so
I ditch seatpad. I'm a seat guy now. I like it, Yeah,
and like not to change it from turkeys, but I
think colin kyotes, I've seen people use those two yep.
And uh, well we'll jump into it a little bit
on the tick side as well. But I like getting
(19:38):
myself like another barrier of protection off the ground, um,
you know, and only giving them four legs to climb
up to start to get on, you know, and and
my feet to get on me. Um. So yeah, it
just has it's it's been a good system. Um. And
uh yeah, that's kind of a great segue into seat
versus seat pad and then you know with the chest
(19:59):
rig versus a turkey vest conversation, Um, what's your system currently.
I've never been like a big turkey vest person. Um.
I've had a couple and I just always seem to
end up figuring out how to put stuff in my
pockets enough stuff in my pockets to just make it work. Um.
But then I started using a chest rig and that's
(20:21):
been really nice just to have everything in one spot.
Like I can toss it on, I can still get
in and out of the pickup with it easy. Um,
I don't have to take it off. Everything's just in
one spot. And really, like when I'm done with turkey season,
like the thing gets put on the shelf and then
it's like I pull it off the shelf and pretty
much everything is in there that I need. So yeah,
(20:43):
that's that's what I use. An FHF just the regular
chest rig and then I put in an E four
pouch on the front of it this year just for
a little bit extra space for like my headlamp and
stuff like that. Um. Yeah, but that's been a that's
been a good system for me. Yeah. Are you also
using uh, I'm I'm the most unorganized hunter in the world. Like,
(21:04):
as long as it fits in the pocket, it's good.
So when you look at my chest rigg, it's two
pot calls, my strikers, my locators are all just like
just in there in the bottom right. Are you using
any of the divide like the striker dividers, the shotgun
shell dividers and stuff. HF for you just kind of
if it fits and it zips and you're good to go, zips.
I like it. Yeah, No, I do use that that
(21:27):
turkey I think it's just called like their turkey accessory
kid or whatever. That velcro's in the inside, UM, one
thing that's kind of cool. With the diaphragm U divider deal,
I can like stick it to the inside. But then
with the velcrow the E four pouch has a velcrow
patch on the outside, and so I can unstick that
and I can stick it to the outside if I'm
(21:48):
if I need to just get to my calls more,
if I don't want to just keep my thing open
as I'm running around. Um. But for the most part,
I keep that stuck in. But yeah, I've got it
pretty I've got it pretty organized in there. Yeah. Yeah,
I've they sent me all the Turkey accessories and I
haven't ran it. Um, But I'm gonna try to do
(22:08):
a better job of, you know, setting setting it up.
And I wanted to touch on turkey vest just a
little bit. As I mentioned earlier, I had I had
all kinds of turkey vests growing up. Um, and I
got to the point where I had to have seventeen
pot calls, you know, fourteen strikers. I had two. You know,
it's like you just had to fill up every pocket
and then when it was time to like where did
(22:28):
I put my scour pad or my chalk, You're like, oh,
it's inside the front left pocket, two pockets deep, and
then the zipper that's inside. You know, it's like you
couldn't find anything. And so I think it just comes
with a lot of experience and learning, like, hey, you
probably only need two pot calls, Max, even though I'm
the game call guy, right like I need to have
calls on, may need to be promoting them. But you're like,
(22:50):
I can probably get away with maybe a box calf.
I want to use it on this hunt. Is it
a windy day? Is a big country? If not, maybe
I'll leave my box call the truck or the or
the side by side for that day. So I think
it was just like learning that I didn't need to
have so much stuff on me to turkey hunt. You know,
I can leave the truck with three different mouth diaphragms,
(23:11):
you know, a couple different strikers, maybe a crow call,
maybe a woodpecker call, and my binoculars. And maybe a
couple extra shotgun shells. To be honest, I actually just
been carrying my three shotgun shells in the gun, and
it's do you do I really need to bring a
whole bunch of backups, Like if I do my job,
keep my shots close, like I shouldn't even need to
(23:32):
shoot more than once. So it's just like, yeah, I
don't need to carry a whole extra box of shells anymore.
And the chest rig is just like you said, it's simple.
I grab it at the beginning of the year. It's
got everything I need in it, and I don't have
to carry this big, cumbersome turkey best. The one thing
I wouldn't say it's it's a knock on the chest rigg.
It's just one of the things I don't have a
good solution for. It is like carrying a little bit
(23:53):
of water. I'm not gonna lie like we're not hiking
mountains for turkeys. But it's like, all right, you've been
away from the for three or four hours, like I'm thirsty, Um,
Like what am I doing for water? And usually that's
just you know, a little cheap disposable water bottle like
just shoved in my origin pocket, you know, or something
that's what it ends up being. Um, so that's the
(24:15):
one thing I miss on the turkey best having a
spot for water. And we're going to talk about decoys
here in a little bit, but you know, my turkey
best used to also just to hold all of my
decoys in the back, and now that we're using you know,
some Dave Smith decoys and whatnot, I don't have the
need to carry a bunch of foamies around. So it's
like the vest just really doesn't have a lot of
utility anymore for me. Yeah. Yeah, And I will say
(24:39):
I'm pretty like I like turkey hunting. I don't like
love love love it, so I don't get too crazy.
I keep like my call is pretty simple. I have
like a pot call, and I have mouth diaphragm calls,
even like last year, even guiding people I don't remember.
I think I just like forgot my actual old turkey diaphragms.
(25:01):
I called in at least three birds with an Elk
campre dude. Yeah, and it works like it's super clear,
it's a super clean there's no rasking this to it,
but it works. Yeah. I'm always amazed how many people
we get sending us pictures in what Turkey's killed with
our ELK calls. It's just they're more comfortable. They don't
have to do a whole bunch of professional calling. You know,
(25:22):
it's just it works. It gets a job done. And
you know, even though you know, my job is to
make and sell game calls, like it's really ninety percent
of the equations right place, right time, right mood, right,
it's it's not necessarily the calling does help and finish
them off. But you know, very rarely, Um, you know,
are you is the culling making up the majority of
(25:42):
of you know, the the am on a word that wrong.
The calling isn't very big piece of the pie when
it comes like you're, you know, putting the success together.
It's it's a small portion. And I recognize that. Um
so optics, we talked about it a little bit. Carrying binoculars.
Um do you do you carry like spotters in your truck?
(26:02):
Like not with you for sure? If anybody carries a
spotter white turkey hunting and I want to talk to
you and figure out why. But like in your rig,
are you using anything else? Do you bring range finders
to maybe just check your range? Where you're sittting decoys
up or are kind of what do you look at
as far as like your optics package while you're tricky hunting. Yeah,
(26:23):
for the most part, you know, I'm just carrying those
like an eight power on my chest and then I
will carry a spotting scope in my pickup just to
like really sometimes what I'll do guiding wise is I'll
go put people in a blind in the evening and
then they can just kind of hunt themselves, and then
(26:43):
I'll go and do some scouting try to find birds.
And I can, dude, I've picked out birds in trees
with my spotting scope from like long ways away, like
a mile away, yep. And then it just gives you
an idea of like, all right, well those birds are
like kind of over there, like we can probably you know,
slip in this way or whatever. So that has been
(27:04):
nice for me. Um, something I'm gonna use a little
bit more of uh this year. And not like I
don't want to do super shameless plug for a sig.
But there have you seen their image stabilizing binoculars. I've
looked through them. Yeah, I think um at the Western
un somebody had them last year and looked through them
a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're ten powers, are
(27:26):
super little and super light, and they're like if you're
hand holding all the time like you are often with turkeys,
like that thing is so nice just to steady it up. Cool. Cool. Yeah.
And one thing I used to also not carry was
a range finder and my my rifle one. You know,
I use loophold stuff. So like my twenty eight hundred
(27:48):
was just too much for turkeys, Like right, it's it's
not geared up. So I just grabbed my my full draw.
I think last year I used the four. This year
I'll have the five. But you know what, just any
archery range finder that's good. Um, short distant ranging. Um,
it just helps your setup. You know when you're when
you're out there, you know, if you're on the edge
of a field, your depth perception is off a little bit,
like just making sure you're not shooting too far. You're
(28:10):
you're setups right, Um, So we typically range stuff and
when we set up just real quickly, all right, we
can shoot out to that bush, we can shoot to
that line. Um, we can shoot ten yards past the decoys,
whatever it may be. And it's just just so we
have some confidence and we're not miss miss you know,
ranging something by fifteen twenty yards. Um. Yeah, yeah, that's
(28:31):
it's a great thing to carry with you. Now we're
going to roll into the next Uh. Question I have
for you is on ground blinds, which you you know,
(28:52):
guiding and having you know, customers that you may want
to limit their their movement or somebody that might not
be experienced. Um in the woods. Um, I've never hunted
out of a ground blind, um for turkeys. So what
do you feel about ground blinds? Um? What's where were
they useful? And then maybe where do they have their drawbacks? Yeah,
(29:13):
drawbacks can definitely be just your ability to move is quick. Um,
you kind of have to. And it seems like when
I when I go to hunt in a ground blind,
I bring like the kitchen sink with me because I
feel like I got to sit there for a long time. Um.
But then I always if they're not moving or something,
I always feel like I got to get out and
(29:34):
and get after them. So there's a patience factor there
for sure. Um. But I like ground blinds for especially
if the birds aren't moving, um something that or aren't talking.
Sorry if if they're not talking, Um, I can set
that ground blind up in a spot where I've just
(29:55):
seen turkeys go buy a lot or something like that.
Sometimes like you just got to wait them out. And sometimes,
like you know, clients always come in and they want
that like gobbler running in from a long ways away
and they want to get the whole experience. But the
reality is it just doesn't always happen like that, and
(30:18):
so you got to be able to adjust. So that's
where I see ground blinds really coming in. I put
them in places where I just know that turkey's like
to be or pass through, So if we can't get
them talking, that's always a good place to put somebody,
like in the evenings or the afternoons or whatever. But yeah,
(30:40):
it's just kinda they're nice because you can move around,
You can move around, kind of have more stuff with you,
like if you think that you're gonna especially I think
like on a really small chunk of property where you
can't really you don't really just want to walk through
it and blow it out. Just spending a lot of
time in a ground blind seems to be like just
(31:01):
kind of how the East, you know, more Eastern type
hunting is um just due to parcel size. So, um,
they can be really nice, but I definitely see where
people get impatient and they just don't want to sit there. Yeah,
and then um continue on my uh me not knowing
anything about ground blinds, you can see them for you know,
(31:22):
you see him out there one hundred twenty ninety nine
and then you can see ground blinds at five hundred dollars.
Are you of the opinion that you get what you're
paid for on ground blinds? I know that, like the
space inside may be different, like the shooting windows may
be laid out different. Um even I mean, I'll even
give you a chance, like is there a brand that
you like to use or is it more of those
just a ground blinds of ground blind you. So I've
(31:43):
gone back and forth on this a lot. Um. I
think if you're in a spot where it's really windy
and you're dealing with a lot of winds, um, you're
gonna want a more expensive one. Just it seems like
the poles or b fere where the joints like come
in usually they out those are just better, um, because
(32:03):
the wind just destroys them. That's that's a huge problem
we have here. Like I have muzzloader. Deer hunters in
them a lot, and the winds just kill them. Um, Honestly,
I've I've gone to a I've bought a ton of
those things, and uh, the double bowls just seem to
like be holding strong and it's it's Um they're expensive, man,
(32:26):
They're like four hundred bucks. Um. But they've got some
They've got some really cool ones. Now. I bought one
just this last year for deer hunters that it's like
the sea through but you can't see into it, like
the whole the whole wall in front of you or
the whole two walls in front of you. You You can
completely see through them, um, but they are not supposed
(32:47):
to be able to see in. So like that's super
cool too. It's just kind of fun to sit in
it because you're not just looking through a tiny little
window all the time. That's awesome. I hunted um a
little bit out of them. Um. They were elevated ground blinds,
but the ones in Kansas they had more of like
a metal structure like and then they were screwed down
(33:08):
to like a palette or like a platform. But yeah,
those ones are like frustrating because you would have deer
running from your right and you could hear them and
then they'd pop in front of you. It's like, man,
I wish I could see like I it almost like,
I don't want to say it took away from the experience,
but it did take away from the experience because I
was limited. I can only see, you know, ninety degrees
out in front of me, nothing to my right. But
(33:28):
yet Yeah, so it would be cool to have like
that double bull system you're talking about where you can
actually see through and see everything versus out out you know,
strategic windows that you have opened. So yeah, yeah, pretty cool.
One one quick thing Baronet. There's a company called Baronet
that makes a blind called an OX five and instead
(33:49):
of four you know, usually you usually it's a five
hub blind, so you have four sides and then your top.
This one's actually a six, so you have one more
U The thing is huge. Um so, like people with kids,
like multiple kids, and like they want to sit in
and have a lot of room to like, you know,
have the kids laid down and stuff like that. OXX
(34:10):
five is great and I think it's like three hundred
bucks or something like that. The thanks for educating me
a little bit on ground blinds. Now we're gonna jump
into boots for turkey. Um. You know, as I got started,
it was always just took whatever boots I was MAO
hunting Western big game in um and and those those
kind of got the nod for for turkey hunting. But
you know, the more I've learned, the more I've you know,
(34:33):
got the chance to try different boots. Um, I'm turning
into more of a like a lacrosse like arrowhead type guy. Um.
It seems like every morning the grass is wet, um,
you know when during spring turkey, regardless of whether it's
a clear night or not. What's your boot system, um
for for turkey hunting? And what do you what do
(34:53):
you go with? Yeah, so here we're not really dealing
with like swampy type stuff. In the spring, the ground
like hardens up pretty quick. So I'm kind of the
same honestly, just like even a flexible pair of boots,
like not even really a mountain boot, you know, just
like one that's pretty quiet when you're walking, just like
(35:16):
a comfortable, nice boot. But if I'm using my like
rubber boots and stuff, a lot of times it's really
nice with rubber boots because they're warmer in the morning
and stuff. They're just warmer, and if you do have
to like do a crieker river crossing or something like that,
they're just easier to use that with. But I have
always been like, even for all this ranch stuff, I've
(35:38):
always been a muck boot person, Like that's just always
what I've bought, Like that always seemed to be the
gold standard to me was muck boots. And I recently,
like a couple of years ago, I tried apparel across
that were I don't remember what they were called, but
they were just like a little bulky like they were
pretty much the same as muck I was like, yeah, okay,
(35:59):
that's kind of one and the same. Well, this last
year I got the Arrowhead model from Lacrosse. Dude, it's
like a different situation, Like it's I got the seven
millimeter ones. They make a lighter one too, but it's
supposed to be like negative forty to forty degrees is
what those things are supposed to be good for, like
(36:20):
cold weatherwise, And they're so much more comfortable once you
put them on. It's like a running shoe. Yeah, And
that's that was the reason I always hated rubber boots.
You know, growing up, we just probably had the cheap
ones where if you walk more than you know, out
to your mailbox and back, you had blisters everywhere and
they were just uncomfortable from your your your heel slipping. Um.
I got those arrowhead sports, you know, the same seven
(36:43):
millimeter and it's like I could probably you know, hike
all day in them and not have any issues. I
don't know about going up a mountain for too long,
but that was always the reason I would just go
to go to my my mountain boots. Um. And so yeah,
if if I know I'm not climbing mountains, if I'm
not gonna you know, put on five or six miles
on in a morning or a day turkey hunting, I'm
(37:04):
always gonna go for those, um, you know those knee
high lacrosse boots at this point, you know those type
of boots. Um. Now we were talking a little bit before. Now,
if I'm showing up in my spot northeast Washington, where
it's public ground, it's super rugged. Your day near you know,
mule deer or sheep hunting for turkeys, Um, I'm still
gonna lace up my my mountain boots. Because it's it's
(37:27):
just kind of matching the terrain you're in. But um, yeah,
if you haven't tried, you know, like like say, I'm
not not trying to give any specific brand or company
a plug, but those Lacrosse arrowheads, Um, they're they're a
legit boot that you can cover some ground in and
they're super comfortable. Um, it's it's nice, Like you say,
they're warmer, I know my feet aren't gonna get wet, um,
(37:49):
and they just they're they're a good boot and you
know we're gonna get into ticks here in a little bit.
The other thing is that's nice, um, is that they're
they're a tall boot. You know, they cover more of
your they they give kind of and if you tuck
your your pants in, it gives like access for ticks
is a very difficult path. Yeah that's a really good
point man. Um Yeah, those those boots. I I go
(38:13):
through this thing, like just to mention it real quick.
Every time I put them on, I'm like, are these
lighter than the other ones? And I'll weigh them and
they weighed pretty much the same, but just the way
that they fit, they just seem like nimble and lighter.
I can't explain it, but I'm just like I've been
blown away the last couple of weeks season them. Yeah, no,
they're legit. So if you you're going out trick hunting, UM,
(38:35):
don't don't um discredit rubber boots. Um that they they've
got their place for sure. So uh, ticks one of
the things that used to just drive me nuts. They
still drive me nuts, but we've kind of got them
under wrap. Um, every every year I came back from Kansas,
I've been bit or had ticks some kind of stuck
in me. So yeah, it's it's it bothers me. My
(38:58):
little funny story. I cannot get my boy to youth
turkey hunt. And it's not just a it's not just
he's scared of ticks. It's like a serious phobia. Like
if my dog comes in the house with a tick,
like my kids like running through glass doors to get
out the other side of the house. Like it's it's legit. So, um,
ticks and what do we what do we do to
(39:18):
fix it? And I'll let you go. And now I've
got kind of a gross little story about um what
what what happened to me last year in Kansas? So
what do you go to prevent ticks. Um, there's I
think there's like the chemical side, and then there's what
I would consider like housekeeping before you sit down, before
you do this or that, like you can prevent a
(39:38):
lot of this from happening. Yeah. I we don't have
a huge tick problem here, like they're definitely around. Um,
but you know the story you're gonna tell. I don't
think we have anything. I've never seen anything quiet like
that here. Um. But I've got the just the basic
like the off or the sawyer stuff in the house
(40:00):
where it's just like a ticker or repellent, just spray
it on the outside of your clothes. Um. I've done
that a little bit. It seems like if I haven't
really seen any ticks, I just kind of forget to
do it, and then I don't do it. Um. I
do just when I get home, though, I try to
like look through all my clothes and just do like
a body check and make sure that there's none stuck
(40:20):
to me. Um. But I'm really interested to hear what
you guys say about ticks. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, chemical wise,
like we use sawyer or repel like aerosol. Um. I
think I think it's mixed like a half percent permethrin. UM.
I know you can get higher concentrations off of like
Amazon and stuff. I'm I am in no way doning
(40:41):
like the safety of that here on the podcast, but
there are ways to get it in like higher concentration.
But yeah, we we lay out all of our gear. Um,
when we get to where we're going, we spray it down.
I think it lasts like two weeks and it makes
it through washings and Whatnotum, So that's really helped. I
would I got. I got like some. I sprayed my
gaiter last year because I was always worried like if
(41:02):
something landed on my shoulder it came off the tree.
I wouldn't recommend like necessarily spray it on your gaiter
and breathing through it for long periods of time. But yeah,
the chemical treatment does great. But yeah, last year in Kansas,
our buddy Chris Parrish was the last one with a tag,
and me and Dirk set up maybe thirty yards behind
him into the woods to help do some just some
supplemental calling occasionally and set up in my seat kind
(41:26):
of set up in a bunch of oak leaves, and
I could see that I always wear my gaiters as
well as another if I'm wearing leather boots or I'm
not wearing my rubber boots, like I still I just
want those ticks to have like a crazy path to
get on me, you know, if possible. We're sitting there
and I start to see some ticks like crawling up
my leg. Like visually, I'm like, this is interesting. But
(41:48):
you could watch them get to like your knee, and
they get kind of almost what I would consider drunk.
They were like they would start walking crooked, and then
they'd walk to the side of your pant and like
literally just fall to the ground like permeteran was killing
them by time they got to my knee, and then
they were I must have sat in a nest, a
nymph nest or a midge nest. Like they were mostly babies,
(42:11):
but I had a couple of big ones. And then
I realized that I was sitting in a lone star
tick nest, which is it for those that don't know,
those are the ones that carry the alpha gal syndrome.
Were when they bite you. When they bite you, you
could no longer eat red meat. So now I no
longer cared if Chris Parrish ever killed a turkey. I
was getting up and moving once I put it all together.
(42:35):
But yeah, and just it's not my place to tell
everybody about that. But my research that I did is
you got about a three percent chance if a lone
star tick bites you, that you're gonna get that alpha gal.
And I'm like, it's not worth it. So I picked
up my seat. You know some things I could have
did there better, like cleaned out the area when I
first sat down, you know, get rid of all of
(42:56):
those oak leaves, and gave myself, you know, maybe a
six by six area to sit down, which maybe would
have helped. But yeah, that permeteran I said one hundred
ticks earlier. I bet you I probably had, realistically fifty
to sixty climb up my leg and none of them
made it past my knee. So the permethrin works. Um,
(43:18):
it works well. Like I said, I was always worried
about something coming into my neck area, so I sprayed
my gator down, which is always kind of tucked in there,
and I didn't feel real good after a couple of days.
And I don't know if it was that or maybe
I was sick, but I'm definitely not a medical doctor,
but permetern works. UM. Everything else is like just extra
precautions like tucking you know, a shirt in into your
(43:39):
pants and cinching your belt up pretty tight. Like we
talked earlier rubber boots put your pants inside so they
didn't have to you know a long way around. UM,
I've even went to you know, putting like elastic velcro
straps like around my wrist just to keep things really tight.
Just just extra precautions, not necessarily gear related, but just
(44:00):
prevent any of that stuff from happening. So we talked
a little bit earlier about vest versus chest riggs. We
kind of talked about where vests maybe we're a little
bit better carrying decoys are you? Are you bringing decoys
in every turkey hunting situation or there's certain setups we're
going to bring them. And then what what decoys do
you tend to use? You know, for the most part
(44:24):
we're especially during shotgun season, I'm just like not using one.
We'll try to do that. We'll just try to not
use one. UM just helps you like move setups quicker.
And then sometimes I mean, I don't know, maybe if
it's just a way that I set set them up,
but sometimes many they might see a decoy and then
(44:47):
just skirt you like they don't won't commit to it
for some reason. Um, so that deal. But I just
have a DSD hen that I use most of the time. Um,
I've got some other cheaper one, uh that are like
a Jake you could put a fan on it. Um.
I gotta be honest, I don't like super Nerd out
(45:08):
about all the different setups and all that stuff. I've
got the hen that those ones from DSD like they
look so realistic, like pretty realistic looking hen like finding
a decoy. That's pretty much what I'm using. Yeah, I've
been able. I've got a buddy that, um, Eric Broughton
who's on the podcast last week. He's got a couple
of like real life stuffer hens um we're in. I've
(45:31):
seen but just like you, I've seen them not working
situations where I almost wonder if we didn't have any
decoy out, if we would, it would have worked better.
You always hear about people like with a Jake and
a breeding Hin setup, and I just feel like at
times they they have worked, you know, maybe even like
detrimental to the situation. But then like last year in Kansas,
(45:53):
we were on a field edge. We we kind of
crawled out there. We knew there were turkeys on the
other end, set up our decoys and that was the
only reason. You know, calling worked a little bit, but
it was a visual that got those birds all the
way to us. So I think they definitely have their place.
And and like you, um, I've got a Dave Smith
deco one of the hands and then a jake and
(46:13):
you know, we can put the fan on and there's
just times where we'll use it in times where we don't.
We usually always carry them around with us for the
most part, but um, you know when we're running and
gunn and like like I said, I'm already carrying a
chair and then now you've got like the hard decoy
bags over your shoulders, like you can make it happen.
But um, yeah, I'm I guess I'm I'm not bias
(46:36):
either way. Like we usually carry them, we sometimes use them,
sometimes we don't. I think they can be a great asset,
especially where um, if the birds aren't real callable and
you think that that visuals that's gonna work, like, well,
we definitely throw them out there nice. So we're gonna
talk about weapons in the in the gear that we
ultimately use to kill the turkey. You're gonna touch on archery,
(46:58):
and then I'm gonna go over just uh, real quick
kind of what I use as far as my setup
and you know, as far as like patterning and stuff
like that. But you're you're an archery turkey hunter. What
do you use? Are using like special broadheads? Are you
lightning your setup? Kind of give us, give us the
lowdown on an archery setup specifically for turkey. Yeah. The
only thing that I change with turkeys is I will
(47:20):
put an expandable broadhead on it. Um just seems to
I don't know, just it seemed to work a little
bit better for me for turkeys. UM, so it opens
them up pretty good. I have the Grim Reaper. They
have a white Tail Hybrid. It's like a two I
think it's a two and a half inch cutting diameter. UM.
That has been a really nice one for me. And
(47:42):
they're honestly, they're turkeys are small and they're easy to
miss with archery equipment, so UM, I tend to not
want a super expensive broadhead up there. So those ones,
you know, they're your basic like forty bucks a pack
or whatever for three of them. Um, So I snag though,
that's pretty much all I change. Um, I don't do
(48:03):
like a big change difference in my archery set up
from turkeys to like uh target shooting, you know, like
three D season to then going into you know, elk season.
I don't really change anything up like that. But the
broadhead is something I do change. Gotcha. So you're just
using more of what we consider like a big game expandable.
(48:23):
You're not going to like the you know whatever, the
turkey guillotines or like these big four inch cutting diam
You're you're just sticking with something that's more accurate and
smaller expandable. Yeah. Yeah, because honestly, sometimes man like especially
if we're doing a running gun archery setup, that's like
way different, more difficult. You're shooting these things at forty
(48:44):
yards to um, they're not you know three yards from
the from the blind, where I think those guillotines could
really be uh, where they're more like it's likely to
actually work. Um ye. So yeah, it that expandable seems
to work good for me, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. And then
(49:04):
I've I've always felt like turkeys were designed to be
shot with a shotgun. So I just I just haven't
picked my bow up and taking them yet. But I
really like having like a semi automatic shotgunning. I hunted
with a pump forever when UM I first got going,
it's what I could afford. I really liked recoil management. UM.
Some of these turkey loads UM really kind of thump you,
(49:26):
UM when you go to pull the trigger. It's not
so much while you're hunting, it's it's more of the
patterning and whatnot. But I'm using the weather be currently
great gun. UM. I really I kind of got away
from like changing AMMO and tinkering with my setup for
a long time because my old gun shot so well.
When I got a new gun, I'm like, oh, now
we can get a new choke, we can get new ammo.
(49:47):
UM did a bunch of research found that Indian Creek
seemed to have a great following and like a great UM.
You know, they were shooting great patterns and they were
really kind of designing for TSS. I know a lot
of the guys within the Meater crew were using Carlton
chokes with great success. So I screwed into Indian Creek
(50:07):
and then I went to TSS ended up. You know,
we used to have like a meat eater had like
a five seven eight mix or something, and I ended
up just going with a peer number nine. I wanted
more babies, and I didn't have any intention of shooting
the past fifty yards and TSS nine is fully capable
out to fifty And so that combination of being able
(50:31):
to drop down to a three inch magnum instead of
a three and a half inch which I was shooting
out of my old pump gun, that choke and that pattern,
like it is an incredible I've never hunted with the
red dot and was able to kind of you know,
throw that on, and it's just I almost feel like
it's cheating a little bit, like the gun is just automatic,
you know. And I've got the problem of a of
(50:52):
a twenty yard bird now of me missing if I
don't do everything right. So that's the one downside. Yeah, Yeah,
I we're shooting like a I don't know, a six
inch circle. It seems like at about twenty, you know,
with just a few a few errant babies. But yeah,
there's all kinds of way. I'm not gonna tell you
how to hunt but I would say, you know, get
comfortable with what turkeys can pick up and seeing like
(51:13):
maybe you know your first bird or two with a shotgun,
and then once you've kind of got that down and
what you can get away with like I'm one of
these days, I just need to pick up my bow.
But and then archery hunting, like you had said earlier,
having success archery hunting for turkeys outside of a blind
is like one of those ultimate, you know, ultimate accomplishments
(51:34):
because they've got such good eyesight and getting your bow
drawn is incredibly tough. Yeah, it seems like the best
time to do it is coming right up when archery
season is starting just here in about a week. The
twenty fifth, I think is when we open here, they're
just all in big groups. So then you got a
ton of hands that are like looking around. So yeah,
(51:57):
we uh we locked out with that. I just gotten
in a pissing match with the hen and got her
to bring the whole crew in. Bye. And then did
they did they pick you up when you drew or
did were you completely like yep? Yeah, they ended up
I'm not joking, man. There were at least twelve hens
in that flock, and they were like they were feet
(52:20):
away from us, just pecking at the ground. I don't
understand how they didn't see us, because you know, I
was on my Leah was sitting down like kind of
on her knees but on her butt, and I was
just standing up on my knees beside her with a
camera and I was almost laughing because they were so close.
I was like, how is this even happening? But they
(52:43):
ended up, Yeah, they came in. She ended up shooting
him at probably fifteen yards maybe just strutted right by us.
We kind of waited until they all got by us
before she drew. But yeah, they picked us up when
we drew, that's for sure. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool.
So Um and then last thing with gear, which um
this is gonna be a shameless plug for sure, is calls. Right.
(53:05):
You know, everybody when you think of spring turkey hunting,
everybody's got calls in their hand. You know. The whole
idea is to interact, and um, you know we we
bring we've got our al calls, we've got our crow
calls for locators, we've got our meat eater x belps
turkey lineup. Um. One thing I just wanted to highlight here,
which I feel is worth mentioning is if you haven't
checked out like our small batch UM pot calls or
(53:29):
our small batch m al hooters. We joined up with
James Harrison and Steve Morgans during this year. UM. I
wanted to just build the absolute best sounding, UM, most
durable UH Turkey calls we could, and so Steve Morganster
knocked it out of the park. UM gave us some recommendations,
really tweaked the specs on on some pot calls for us.
So we have an aluminum inside an osage, but we
(53:51):
went with a lot thicker aluminum than most people use
on their calls UM, and that aluminum is just a
smoking call. And then we built a green slate UM
inside of a teak pot and teak is just one
of those woods that's you know, it's a reason why
it's used in marine applications all the time. It's you know,
extremely durable, decay resistant, rot resistant UM. And then green
(54:13):
slate is is an amazing UM you know surface to
be used. And then UM Steve assembled all of those,
tested them all UM and and those those pot calls,
in my opinion, are as good as it gets um,
and then we joined up with James Harrison to design
those Alhooters, which I think at the at the time
this uh podcast airs, we're going to be sold out
(54:34):
and we hope to have a restock here. But those
al calls are just at a different level. Um, they
they're very very good. Um. So yeah, that's kind of
the big change, uh, you know, or the additions this year,
um in the phelps Turkey lineup, and then um, yeah,
if you need to get your calls, um, they are
in stock and Turkey season getting close. So in closing,
(55:04):
what does one tip you feel would give Turkey hunters
better odds at finding success this year? Uh? You know,
from a pure filling your tag success standpoint, don't be
afraid to switch things up kind of like I was
talking about if if they're not talking for some reason
or another, like it just you might not be able
(55:25):
to change that. So I think a combination I don't
be afraid to change things up and patience. Yeah, that
can both really help. Yeah, and that's a great tip.
Like as much as especially me going out there, it's
to use the calls. But one time we just hit
it wrong in Kansas where we could see birds, and
(55:45):
we were hitting in with every locator we had. They
had no intention of ever making a sound. Well, it's
like the hens were feeding down to us, and it's like, well,
I'm not opposed to shooting one when it walks by us, right,
And so it's just like changing your strategy. Like we
could have probably sat there and called and we would
have scared them off, or those hands would have changed
their pattern. But it's like all right, well, just you
almost have to play with what the rules that you're given,
(56:08):
right or the playing field that you're given, Like, this
is what they're going to give us. We've only got
so much time in so many days. Um, I'm not
opposed to shooting when when it walks by. So um,
it's just outsmarting them. But yeah, be patient, um, and
and change your strategy. Don't just go in with you know,
one way's got to work. Yep, Yeah, absolutely. I think
that's where, like you know, your ground blind can come in.
(56:30):
Just being able to chill there and be a little
bit more comfortable and move around a little bit more
while you're being patient can help um a little bit.
But you know, then there's there's certainly people that just
want to shoot, they want to have that interaction and
they're just going to move around until they find the interaction.
I mean really no different to Helk you know. Um
(56:50):
so yeah, I guess it kind of depends what you want.
But yeah, yeah, Well we really appreciate you having or
having you on the show today, Jordan. How can people
find out more about you, you know, through social media
or you know gear Talk podcast or where they can
they can find you? Yeah, so Instagram, it's just at
Jordan dot bud on Instagram. And then I've got a
(57:12):
YouTube channel as well. I've been kicking out some stuff
that we've been filming on our fall hunts. So that's
just Jordan budd On on YouTube. And yeah, the gear
Talk podcast, I find it wherever you get your podcasts.
All right, perfect, Thanks for coming on. Good luck out
there in Nebraska this year, and we'll we'll touch base
with you here middle of the season and see how
you're doing. Yeah, I appreciate you. Jason Things
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