Ep. 36: Calling and Killing Turkeys with Tony Peterson

This week, I'm joined by MeatEater's own Tony Peterson to talk turkey. On this episode, we answer a couple listener questions, talk pressured birds, and dive into turkey calling strategy. Tony is a certified turkey killer, and if you're a turkey hunter, you're not going to want to miss this. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Today's guests may be most recognizable in the white tail space.
He grew up in the Bluff Country of southeast Minnesota,
where he became obsessed with everything outdoors. He spent all
of his extra time bass fishing, turkey hunting, upland hunting,
and of course, deer hunting. Tony Peterson took his love
of deer hunting and eventually turned it into an outdoor
writing career, a profession he kicked off in his mid
twenties after becoming the associate editor for Peterson's Bonehunting magazine. Later,

(00:36):
he earned the role of equipment editor for Bonhuert Magazine
and Bowhunter TV. In more recent years, Tony joined up
with me Eater to produce content including articles and podcasts
under the Wired to Hunt brand, as well as shows
like Back forty and One Week in November. Listeners will
likely know of Tony if they are into white to hunting.
Public land is He was one of the pioneers that
thrived at killing big bucks on public ground. He has

(00:59):
aired a pilot Good Bucks on Public Ground in multiple
states and is considered one of the nation's top authorities
on hunting pressured gear. But that's not why we have
him here today. He also happens to be one hell
of a turkey hunter with countless shotgun and boat tip
turkeys do his credit. He's a wealth of knowledge on
calling long beards, especially long beards that have received a
lot of hunting pressure, which is what we're going to

(01:20):
get into today. Welcome to the show, Tony.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thanks for having me. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
How's everything going.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's pretty good. It's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Getting ready for turkey season, so that's always exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
How's the spring shaping up where you're at.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
You know it's coming in real slow, but we're getting
there now. And you know, my focus right away is
always to get my little girls. I have twin eleven
year old girls and their turkey hunting fools, and so
we scout and get ready for them hard, and then
once they fill their tags, then I start to play
around a little bit. But that's always my focus.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Now, do you guys have a youth season there where
you're at for the girls?

Speaker 3 (02:00):
You know, in Minnesota, we don't. They just they get
to hunt the whole six weeks of the season. But
I do take them over to Wisconsin where they have
a weekend.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
That's a youth so nice. So Wisconsin and Minnesota this year.
You have more on the docket for turkey hunts this year,
just those two states.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
For the girls, those two states myself too, and then
I'm gonna I'm gonna head down to Nebraska. And I
also drew an Iowa tag this year, so I got
a few tags.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
You'll be busy. Nice, nice. So yeah, it sounds like
diehard deer hunter, but just as much.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
A turkey hunter is deer absolutely, and it doesn't I
don't you know, I'm going down to Iowa. I'm hunting
public land down there. I'll be scouting deer, you know,
the Nebraska thing. I'll be scouting deer. So it's it's
always yeah, you know, the primary focus is, you know,
kill a few long beards, but it's time in the
woods man like I just love it. And I'm always
checking out new spots and turkey seasons. So good for

(02:51):
you know, kind of taking a flyer weekend and going
somewhere because you never know you might find something worth
going to deer hunt.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, I love this Kansas piece. We always talk
about going there to the turkey hunt is just as
much fun, you know, getting ready for the fall deer
hunt if I'm lucky enough to grab a tag, because
you get to go into some areas that he won't
let you in, you know, during during deer season, so
you get to check some things out and learn the
lay of the land and you know, maybe maybe give
you some tips on where you're gonna you know, set
a stand or where you should set a stand. So

(03:18):
now I really like it. But uh yeah, now I'm
excited for spring. Got Kansas, I've got Washington and then Idaho.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
As well, so I'll have nice yeah, nice.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah. Like every episode, we're going to start with some
listener questions, and if you have questions for my guests
or for myself, please email them to us at ct
D at phelpsgame Calls dot com or shoot us a
social message or anything like that and we'll try to
get them on here. So the first question for you today, Tony,
is defining a roose tree. We got a question a
guy was wanting to know. You know, there's trees everywhere

(03:49):
in the woods. Yeah, how do you define a roost
tree or what makes an ideal group of roost trees?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
You know, that really depends what part of the season
you're looking for it. You know, if it's an early
season thing. You'll find that true turkey roost where it's
it's someplace you know, it's gonna have big oaks or
some kind of big tree, and it's gonna have some
kind of terrain advantage, you know, where they can fly off,
where they can tuck away from the wind. And then
as the season progresses and it gets a lot nicer
out that survival. You know, they're not worried about freezing

(04:18):
to death up there. They don't need as much protection,
and so they'll spread out. But you know, I mean
always it's droppings, it's scouting is huge, you know, looking
for those those spots. And then you know, I always
tell people one thing you notice especially and you know,
maybe like the first half of your season, you know,
if you have a roost, even if it gets blown out,
what you'll see those birds do, especially when they're flocked up,

(04:40):
is if you have nasty weather come in, like we
get a lot of fronts in the spring in different places,
those birds are going to roost somewhere where there's a
there's a real advantage to getting out of the wind.
And so you think, you know, you get a crazy
east wind or something and you're like, oh, they're going
to be roosted where they're always roosted. And then you
go there and that wind's blowing that up. They're gonna
be somewhere else and you can almost call your shots.

(05:01):
You can pull up on X and look at it
and go, Okay, they could tuck in here and be
out of that wind all night long.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
You'll find that. You mean, you see that in so
many places.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, and that's I mean, you don't want to
be too obvious, but you know, you got your scat,
you got your feathers in those areas, you know, and
the best way is you mentioned, is just to scout it,
you know, locate. You know, we we learn of most
of our roost areas just by locating at nighttime, you know,
getting ready, and they're like, oh, they're in these same
areas time after time. And it's different though, even different subspecies.

(05:31):
And you go to the Midwest and if you're hunting Easterns,
they seem to want to come back to a set
group of trees as long as it checks all the box,
you know, out of the wind. A lot of times
those roost trees are just off of a ridge line.
They can walk up the ridge, lion or walk and
then they can pitch down into the tree without having
to do a bunch of like laborersts flying up and
just being off of that ridge, as you had mentioned,

(05:52):
keeps them out of the wind. So big heavy limbs,
they don't like to be shook around. So it's like,
you know, it's I guess we're talking about what they
typically like to be. And they can roost anywhere, right,
but but typically like to be in those bigger trees,
bigger you know, oak trees, big limbs, and not getting
shook around here as much. And then when I go
to hunt Mariam's round home, those things literally just roost
where they end up. But similar you know, they're they're

(06:14):
staying out of the wind, but they they they're they're
not as likely to come back to that tree night
after night after night.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, I've seen it, you know, Easterns, like you mentioned,
I've seen rios be real consistent too. But man, it's
you know, like the first part of it is fine
in all those droppings and where you're like, yeah, clearly
they spend some time on that limb and that limb,
but if you get away to watch them, if you know,
if you can get out in the morning and listen
for them whatever, that's great, But if you can watch
them in the evening approach it, it's so valuable. See

(06:41):
how see how they actually work their way in and
then you know, okay, if I if I get in
there where I would want to set up, they're gonna
see me because they're going to have a visual advantage
a lot of times. So being able to watch turkey
is so huge.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yep. Yeah, So listener question number two. I'm new to
turkey hunting and I can only take one week off
to hunt, which there's a little nuance, right. We talked
a little bit before the podcast because some seasons have
already been going for over a month, you know down south,
some of our northern states, a lot of states open
on like an April fifteenth opener. You know, some youth
seasons mixed in there. So we'll have to you know,

(07:14):
take it with a grain of salt. But in your
opinion kind of what's the best time to be out
there if you had to pick, like a one week.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
If I'm hunting a place that nobody else can go into,
give me the first week. If I'm hunting a place
where you know I might be the third one in line.
I always try to time it around like a real
green up, because you know the flocks are going to
split up. You know, those hens are going to go
start eating bugs and some fresh greenery, and those times
are going to follow them, and then if you can
time it, you know, for years in Minnesota, one of

(07:42):
my favorite times the hunt was when the walleye opener happened.
Nobody wanted to you know what I mean. And you
see that in other states. So there's it's kind of
Turkey season a lot of times sort of follows the
deer season, like at least the bow season pattern where
there's a bunch of activity right away and then it
kind of dies down and then as the clock starts
to and toward the end, you'll see people start to
get back out, and so there's there's usually a middle.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Ground there that you can find.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yep. And I'm similar to you. I I love hunting
that first week if you had if I had private,
I'd be out there that first week for sure. You know,
I think your likelihood of calling those toms in's way better.
But in Washington, public ground hunting, like we do, you
get a week of every single chunk of public ground
is occupied. And then if you go the second even
into the third week, you're kind of in that hind

(08:27):
up phase where everything's locked down. Sometimes they won't gobble,
they won't they just they will not come to a
call and you so you're kind of fighting that I've
always liked in Washington, Like May tenth, it's getting pretty
late in the season, but we're starting to get the
majority of our hens bread and on eggs all day
and away from him and so, and that's to be honest,
no matter what, you know, if you want to kill

(08:48):
the three or four year old birds, like I've always
felt like mid May for us in Washington and some
of your best timing, it's just those birds are lonely
after nine o'clock and you know you got them all
to yourself.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
So yeah, that's that's a big thing when when you're talking,
you know, it used to be just like everybody's like, oh,
I got to kill my bird off the roost, and
it's like that lunch shift is when those birds go looking,
and especially when you're talking May.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, you might not. You have to push through a
little bit more. You're not gonna probably as much goblin
as much action. At times, it's a little things have
slowed down a little bit. But man, as far as
like likelihood of harvesting a more mature bird later is good.
So I guess we didn't really answer that question wholeheartedly.
But it's just there's always good times to be out there.
But uh, I don't know, I don't know if there

(09:34):
is a perfect week to be out there. But yeah,
like you said, no pressure early for sure. You know,
we just completed our Washington youth season and guys were
just moping, you know, they were. It was just great.
These birds haven't heard calls yet. They're super callable. And
then you know it's gonna progressively get slower a season.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, I mean that's a that's another good point for
somebody who's just starting out.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
How confident are you in calling?

Speaker 3 (09:58):
You know, because if you can get out there and
and really call right away, you get the most birds
to work with. It haven't been pressured. That's a good
time to go, but you know you got to you
gotta have some confidence, you know what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then our last we got
a third listener question or in our last so a
new hunter wanted to know consitting sign be effective or productive.
And once again, I think we need some more information.
But I'll go ahead and let you answer and we'll
add on to it.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I mean, I you know, I only bow hunted turkeys
for like ten years.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
I kind of went through that phase.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
And you know, when you're committed to a blind and
an all days sitting, a spot sign is everything, Like
I want, I want to know they're using a spot
for some reason. And we're kind of we're kind of
used to thinking about turkey on it is like just
get out there, listen for a gobble and go Yeah.
But you know, unless you have a lot of land
to roam, like, that's maybe not the best strategy in
a lot of places. And turkeys are so patternable. I

(10:55):
mean they it feels like it gets wild, kind of
like the white tail rut, Like you're like, oh, they're
just all over the count. No, there's a method to
their madness. And Tom's are super predictable and so we're hens.
And so if you've got a place where they're scratching,
you know, if if they were there today at ten o'clock,
they're gonna be there.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Tomorrowlock unless something bold, Yeah, as long as they're not disturbing.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
So I mean, and the thing is, you got to think, okay, well,
you're the easiest place to find sign is out in
the open, right, like on the egg fields or whatever.
And you know that's great, But I look at it
and go, I want that, but I want to know
where they're looping through the woods on a circuit where
they're scratching somewhere that's in the cover that's not so obvious.
And you start piecing those together and then maybe you've

(11:37):
scouted those roofs like we talked about. Now you're like, okay,
I've got places to be, and then you just got
to give them time.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yep. And and it's kind of funny. I never every
year we go through this progression where I don't relearn
that until about day three. You try to go in.
You've tried to force your plan that wherever that bird's
at and where if you're set up, you're gonna call
it to them. And then by day three you're like,
all right, this is obvious to see. You know it
may work, but it's not working as effectively. Like we
know the pattern of these birds, let's not force this

(12:06):
whole call scenario to us. Let's just go and it's
way more effective. And I'm saying, this is a guy
that loves to call turkeys and makes a living, you know,
sell them calls for turkeys, but patterning, you know, it's
it's almost like the ambush style and elk cunning. I'll
all always say that you're going to be way more
successful in calling that bowling if he's already doing what
he wants to do and only has to come a
little bit, versus like make them do what they don't

(12:27):
want to do.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Every animal man, And I mean that's the turkey thing.
When you're talking about sign and calling, it's a proximity thing,
you know, just like with elk. You're like, if you're
one hundred yards away from a bull, he's a hell
of a lot easier to call in than if you're
across the canyon. And turkeys are the same way. Yeah,
they're going to answer you, But if you're where they
expect turkeys to be and you're you're damn close to
their route, it's totally different game.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
All right, So that wraps it up for listener questions
once again, if you have questions of your own for
me or my guess, please email us at CTD at
polpsgamecalls dot com. I'm we'll do our best to include them.

(13:11):
So now we're going to jump into some of my
questions I had for you, just some conversations, some things
we haven't really touched on. You know, we can kind
of get stuck in this red of like regurgitating and
like just having that circular conversation. There's only so many
things you can talk about tricky hunting, So we're gonna
jump into maybe some of the oddities or some stuff
we haven't talked about on some of the past Tricky episodes.
So one thing we just kind of mentioned some of

(13:34):
the things that takes me till day two or three
to figure out. But every spring you go out and
you start to you know, you hear your first gobble
and you're like, shoot, you know, whether you're in eastern Washington,
where you're in Kansas, how far away was that thing?

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Like?

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Can I go another one hundred yards? Do I need
to sit down here? It's one of those real difficult
things to figure out, and there's a lot of uh,
you know, factors that that factor into to a gobble.
But do you have any tips for anybody going out there?
Like how aggressive can you be? How so you know
what's the best way to gauge that.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Man, my hearing sucks. I had so many guns and
guitars in my day. But I'll say this, especially for newbies,
if they sound close, they're really close. And if they
sound far away, they might still be close. And so
I get real cautious because if you go running gun
and chasing gobbles when they're lighting up, I mean, you're
gonna learn that you're gonna bump.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
You're gonna bump over that.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
I mean it just and so and sometimes you know,
especially if you spend It's different for me when I'm
scouting birds and I'm photographing them because I'm not I
don't care about getting into kill them. So it's like
I learn a lot about how far away they are
and how far they sound because I'm not making an
hunter mindset. I'm just observing. And man, there's so many

(14:45):
times where they sound far away and they're just not.
And so I'm always like, you know, I know everybody
wants to sprint across the countryside and get seventy five
yards away and set up, but I always just assume
they're closer, and I always assume that if I go
sneaking in on this bird, unless I've got like an
obvious like if there's a bluff or something and he's

(15:05):
on top, like they're gonna see me better than I think,
And even with the woods greened down and everything. So
I'm I'm pretty cautious that way, and i'd rather especially,
you know, if they're sounding off and you can throw
an owl food at him or something, it's like you
don't have any reason to go rush, and like work
it out a little bit, and you almost can guarantee
that if there's a bird goblin at you there, he's

(15:25):
probably not alone. I mean, you might have run into
that two year old it's or what like they might
be alone, but a lot of times they're not. And
so you're now you're working in on not just.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Multiple sets of eyes exactly. And one of the things,
like the biggest eye opener for me is is you're
working a bird, as you mentioned, But we've I don't
know if everybody's been there, but I've been there multiple
times where we're on the edge of a field and
there's a bird out there two hundred yards away, and
that thing sounds if he gobbles away from me and
then turns and gobbles at me, like I would have
just lost all kinds of money on on how far

(15:56):
I thought he was. But it's literally, you know, maybe
a three x magnitude and difference on what I thought
that distance was. Just if he turns and gobbles the
other way versus gobbles towards me. So I've already got
that against me. Now we've got if he did that
same thing and the wind was at his back versus
in his face. You know, what's the wind doing where
I'm at? You've got fooliage. You know, early in the
spring gobbles are going to travel a little bit farther

(16:17):
is it starts to really green up and get thick.
And now, you know, so all these things play into
But I think you hit the nail on the head
earlier with your comment of you just always play it
a little more cautious. There's if he's gobbling, he's obviously
still there, and as long as he's still there, you
have a chance. Versus if you go and bump him
and spook him, you're now dealing with a you know,

(16:37):
a buggered up bird, real hard to deal with at
that point, once him or his hens get you know, spooked,
it's it's gonna be tough.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, And I mean I think in that situation too,
a lot of people talk themselves into going because they'll
have that bird that'll they'll hit him every time, but
he's not coming and they get impatient, and man, I mean,
you can kill him that way. But I always look
at that, I'm like, if I have a wild turkey
talking to me, I'm doing just fine. And you know
how you know, it's kind of like elk, Like you know,

(17:05):
sometimes there's just one that slips in from somewhere else
or suddenly they just come in. And so if you've
got one and you're like, oh, he sounds like he's
two hundred two hundred fifty yards away, I'm like, man,
if he's calling to me, unless I have a real
terrain advantage to get closer, I'm like, I'm just gonna
work him until he makes the decision.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah. And then you start to throw in ridges and
like open ridge tops, and you know, up and down
that turkey's moving or he turns around, it just it
becomes very difficult and no matter how good you are
at it, you you potentially could get it wrong unless
you can really read the situation. So just yeah, always
be cautious. I think it's a safe play and approach
with caution well.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
And I mean that's one of the things I've been
writing about this a lot lately, is the better you
get at calling and the more confident you get, the
less you feel that pressure to just put yourself as
close as you can, you know. I mean when you
talk about a bird like that, you know you run
into that lot with pressure birds. If you hunt a
lot of public land birds, you'll get those birds that
just hang up. They'll tell you where they are, but

(18:01):
it's like you really got to give them something special.
And so if you can work two calls at one time,
you know, and make it sound like two hens meeting
up and cutting hard, and or just give them something different,
sometimes that's all you need to break them to you.
But just going to them is so often that does
not go well.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, So once again, just be cautious. And then it's
it's really a skill. It takes a lot, and even
no matter how many birds you've listened to, still can
get it wrong. So jumping into our next question, one,
thing we don't talk a lot about but does play
a significant factor. But we we also don't think about
it a lot while we're hunting, especially in Washington where

(18:42):
we have water and a lot of places. You know,
how does water affect your turkey hunt? It's it's different
than an elk and a wallow or you know elk
that need to go to water every day. Turkeys can
get it in different places. But they also will use,
you know, water for different reasons, for feed, for green up.
What do you how do you think about water in
relation to spring turkey hunting?

Speaker 3 (19:01):
And you know, I've I've killed birds in like proximity
to water and Texas and places where you're like, I
think they're going there to drink. But I use it more,
you know, because we a lot of the states I hunt.
You'll get a turkey season that opens up and you
might get snow, I mean you and so the wetlands
are full, you know, and those birds do not like

(19:21):
getting their feet wet unless they have a real good reason.
So if they're if they're just traveling point A to
B and scratching or whatever, they're gonna avoid water. And
so I've I spend a lot of time setting up blind,
especially for my daughters, where I'm like, there's a swamp
here and there's a cattail slew there and this is
the high ground. I mean, kind of like you do
a deer and you know, they don't always do it.
Sometimes they'll fly across, but if they can walk, they can.

(19:44):
And so I mean water is a factor in a
lot of stuff. And then I mean, I've seen this too,
and I don't really know what's going on, but it's
almost like there's a little micro climate around that water first,
you know, so when you don't have anything else green
in the woods, sometimes you can go and see turkey
scratching up on the edges of water. It's like they're
they're finding something there that they're keying on. And so

(20:07):
there's a you know, you might look at it and go, well,
they're just walking around this edge. They're not if you
watch them or you you know, you might think, oh,
they're going down there to drink when they got water everywhere,
and so there's there's things like that.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, I think I think the the amount of bugs
around that water too. You watch them out there bugging
as their feed in the middle of the day. I
think they there's just a lot more bugs near the
water than maybe away from the water, you know, if
we're talking about like the same feed in comparison, so
they may be going down there getting into better food,
you know, better bugging area from the feed. But yeah,
so you're basically saying you can treat that water as

(20:40):
almost not necessarily a funnel, but it almost condenses them
to like a more narrow path, Like their routine is
gonna be a tighter path because they're not gonna want
to be in the swamp. They're not gonna want to
be next to the water. I'm sure you're gonna kind
of choke them down to some of these areas so
they can maintain the high ground.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's absolutely a funnel, I mean. And and this is
you know, this is another crazy theory too, when you
talk about you know, bugs and water. I do a
lot of duck photography in the spring, and I'll watch
hawks set up and you know, you think, like nothing
out there eats toads, right like you might have a
dog that'll guma tode up and salivate for a while.

(21:13):
And I'll watch certain hawks flying and just keying on
those toads and pick them up. And I always watch
those turkeys work in those swamp edges. I'm like, are
they they you know they'd grab a frog? Yeah, I
mean you know they would. And I'm like, are they keen?
This probably sounds so stupid, but I'm like, there's something there.
You know, it doesn't really look like they're catching something,
but if it was cold enough, it probably wouldn't be that,
you know, probably wouldn't look that crazy.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah. And so then towards later season is some of
these you know, wetlands and areas dry up, then you
almost lose your advantage. You know, the advantage you had
of necking them down or funneling them is because now
they've got you know, basically more real estate that they
they're not afraid to walk through, or or that green
up's changing, right, the green up used to be on
the edge here will now the edge is receded back,
you know, one hundred feet, hundred yards whatever it is,

(21:55):
and so now they it's basically opened up their path.
So early on you can take advantage of some of
those higher water levels and neck them down. So that's
an interesting point there. So one thing that's really hard,
and I've tried to rewind my brain when this question
kind of came up, or I was putting it together
for you. Is because once you kind of got your

(22:15):
understanding of turkeys, you just kind of know what amount
of sign is enough. But let's say you're a brand
new hunter, your brand new turkey hunting. How do you
know when you go to scout property if enough sign
is there? If that makes any sense, you know, like
we've been there enough, we just like, oh there's enough scat,
there's birds, goblin, whatever. But for a new hunter that
maybe just doesn't have it figured out yet, you know,
there might have been one bird on there a year ago,

(22:36):
you know, and that's a sign that you see. What
would you look at and when would you be comfortable
enough that there's enough sign on this piece to hunt it?

Speaker 3 (22:45):
It depends how fresh it is. And you kind of
alluded to this earlier. You know the good thing about
spring in most places, you're gonna get some rain and
you're gonna get a fresh you know, like a clean slate,
and you know it might only you might only have
to find a fresh set of tom track that you
know was made this morning, and that's all you need
to set up on that login road tomorrow, or you know,

(23:06):
if you haven't had any rain for a while, it's
a little drier, and now it's like, okay, I know
the sign I'm looking at might be a couple of
days or a week old. Then you want as much
as possible, and so I always try to. It's kind
of like with white tails, like, oh, you know, you
find a bunch of rubs, that's great, Like I want
to see what's going on too, So that's like that's
the starting point. So if you go out there and
you're in that corner of the cut, you know, cornfield

(23:28):
or whatever, and you see some you know tracks and
some you know turkey droppings, you're like, okay, this it
seems like there's a concentration here. If there's a way
to back that up with observation, then you win because
now you know and I mean, you know, the good
thing about signing the turkeys laid down is you know
they did it in the day, so at least you
have that to work. But you know the other thing
to do. And I know people they don't think about

(23:50):
this very often, but if you're working, if you're like
on a small property like a lot of us in
the Midwest and the East Star running trail cameras for
turkeys is almost cheating, Like it's it's crazy ey, how
dialed into those patterns you can get them and see
with a trail camera. So it's if you're like, if
you're new to it and you're like, I don't know
what these tracks mean, Like if you have a trail camera,

(24:10):
maybe put it out, or it's better to go out
and glass if you can, because you know, in person
observation is way better. But there's ways to just kind
of go, Okay, now I know what's going on here.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, and I would consider that question a little bit
more like pre pre scouting, Right, you're out there February
before they're goblin, before maybe they've broken you know, there's
still maybe in their winter flocks. But ideally the best
way to proof it is boots on the ground. You know,
those those turkeys are gonna start goblin early March, at
least where I'm at. You know, they've been gobling for
the last well by time this airs, you know, two months,

(24:42):
so you should really go proof it when those birds
are there and as they start to break up, you know,
into the end of March or middle of March, wherever
you're at, just go proof that that ground is going
to hold turkeys during you know, the spring. And and
the best way to do that is Tony mentioned, you know,
put eyes on them, put eyes on the or just
go locate on that, you know, go spend the morning

(25:03):
there and you're gonna know, you know, probably by the
middle of March, if if there's gonna be birds or not.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
And I would say the only thing to be careful
with there, you know, scouting big flocks is the easiest,
and the turkeys are so consistent until you get that
real green up where the bugs are really a factor.
And then those flocks are when they're done, like they're
they're not flocking up anymore no matter what comes in.
And you start to get you know, by nine ten

(25:28):
o'clock in the morning when you're sitting out there and
you see all those bugs kind of like when you're
fly fishing, like you just know those birds are keying
on that. And so you might have glassed a flock
in the cornfield two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
And if that green up.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Hits hard and it warms up and those bugs are out,
they're gonna focus on that food source.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
And it's gonna change.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Change, yeah, yeah, change it up real quick and next conversation.
So it seems like no matter what, we can be
you know, in prime best managed, you know, land in Kansas,

(26:09):
we can be in eastern Washington where right now I
feel like we're in that first twenty years of turkey
r introduction, still like they've been there longer, but they're
still in that like you know, predators haven't got them yet.
They're still on the upswing. But it seems like no
matter how many birds we're in, every once in a while,
every season, you just run into that brick wall. And
then sometimes that brick wall of no gobbling will stay

(26:29):
up for a day. Sometimes it'll last a couple of days.
You know, it's a lot of times triggered by whether
it could be triggered up by them just being a
hind up. What's your strategy go to there where you
feel like I just seen a bird. I crow called
out him, my alcohol at him, my turkey called out
of my cut at him, and the thing doesn't answer,
Like how do you get you know, how do you
hunt with with purpose and with some confidence at that point?

(26:50):
Because sometimes I just you know, I just get super frustrated,
but I'm curious, you.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Know, man, I think I think the main problem a
lot of time turkey hunters have is the turkey sounds
they've listened to are sounds other turkey hunters make, so
they go to YouTube. And I'm not saying there's anything
wrong with that, but when you listen to wild birds,
it's like it's like being around a herd of elk.
When you listen to how cows call and how they communicate,

(27:16):
it's just different than listening to somebody explain it to you.
And when you spend time around turkeys, there's we're so
keen in on the loud noises right, like the loud
yelping sequence, the gobbles, of course, But when you when
you call in birds, the hens, and they come in close,
even Tom's there's a language that it almost doesn't stop.

(27:38):
And if you don't hear them make it, you don't
know how to like, you don't know how to work
on that. So I'm always I don't when I'm out there,
I'm way too cocky. I'm like, there isn't a bird
I can't call in, and there's lots of birds I
can't call in, and trust me, I met them, But
I always look at that and I go the bird,
the bird that won't gobble at me. That's fine, Like
you can still call in those quiet birds. And it's

(27:59):
I always like just think of it, like there's something
I got to figure out with my calling to win
that dude over. And the more this, I mean, this
was really like the primary benefit I felt when I
bow hunted him for so long was you call in
so many hens into your decoys and you get them going,
and you start going back and forth and they're preening

(28:19):
in front of you and you you're getting an education
in the sounds they make when they're interacting with other hens,
and the sounds they make when there's a tom close.
And it's just like you just have more tools in
the kit. And so I think, I think a lot
of times we go out and we go, well, if
I can't shot goblinm he's call shy or whatever, or
if I throw him that that sequence of yelps and
he you know, he looks but he doesn't hit me,

(28:41):
then he's not workable. And I'm like, man, you got
a lot more things you can do. And I think
you know my thing, you know, you would think you
hunt pressure birds, right, like you go down public land,
and it's always like tied to subtlety, right like be quiet,
make soft yelps, scratch a little bit. I find going
the other way helps me a lot. Like I think

(29:02):
a lot of those birds are out there and they go,
I've heard these hens yelp and you know, purr and
cluck and do all the little quiet stuff. But when
you start getting fired up, especially if you can run
two calls or you have a buddy to go back
and forth with, now there's something interesting for them. And
I just think a lot of your competition on pressure
birds is going the other way. And they're like, I
gotta they're not saying much, so I gotta be quiet,

(29:23):
and man, I usually get real aggressive and at least
then even if you don't call them in, they'll usually
hit you or change their body language a little bit.
And I think that's important. But it's a confidence thing
with your calls, you know, yep.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah. And so as far as like do you continue,
do you change up anything, as far as like running
ridges and locating or like do you do you'd maintain
like your same path you would take if they were
gobbling crazy or do you ever assume that a bird's
they are just not answering you? Does that affect like
you do like cold calling setups where you just might
set up for tons if things are just slowed away down,

(30:00):
you'll just do a cold calling setup.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
And yeah, and you know I do.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
I do a lot of map work, like if I'm
hunting a big chunk of public land, like I'm like,
where where can I go? People probably aren't gonna go,
just like the deer, and I'll do I'll do a
lot of cold calling setups, but it'll be there'll be
a reason behind it, like I'm I'm here because I
think so, And then I try to give them like
two hours. And I know people get real impatient if

(30:26):
there's no birds going. But man again, you know, like
we talked about before, it's proximity. And if you've got
birds that are covering the countryside, even if they're not
making noise, and I'm sitting there and I'm working and
it's in a spot that has something going for it,
you know, half hours isn't enough time, Forty five minutes
isn't enough time. And you know, I just think about
how often you you know, especially when you're younger, and

(30:47):
you're you're just gung ho and you stand up and
you walk twenty yards.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Birds flush everywhere all the.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Time, man, And so I just try to be like, Okay,
I'm I'm going to commit to this spot. I'm gonna
make it comfortable, and I'm going to give it, you know, like,
and I will tell myself, like, you are not leaving here.
It's it's noon, and you're not leaving here till two, no.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Matter what set your clock to it. There's no that
I'm gonna jump ahead a few because it's a great
segue into patience, which is something I don't have much of,
but you have to. I mean, I've I've learned and
I've been told by the turkeys, as you mentioned multiple times,
that patience is one of those things that's actually to
your to your advantage when turkey hunting. You know, how
long can you sit still? You know, me just wiggling,

(31:25):
you know, forty five minutes into sit or a minute
has cost me birds me you know, thinking I can
do something that because there hasn't been any action, So
when aside from me just setting a clock and is
it just a gut feel? And how long you're gonna
sit if the area is like cold versus lukewarm, like
maybe you heard a gobble, you know, a half hour
into the sites that like can you run us through?

(31:46):
Like when you're gonna move aside from just setting your
clock to two hours or is it as simple as
just I'm gonna give this two hours because I think
that's the right time, or that's how big this area is,
or I.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Just have to force myself.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
And this is this comes from the dear world, right,
and I mean partially that and bowl hunting turkeys where
it's like, you know, I've done a lot of dark
to dark sits and blinds bowl hunting turkeys and you
get you know, you might have six hours of down
time and then you look out and there's a tom coming,
you know. And so for me, I think that, you know,
one of the things that just kills so many people's

(32:19):
success is they're just impatient and I see this, you know,
this is in the white tail space big time. But turkeys,
because people they're visible. People think they're gonna go strike
one up or they're gonna go see one There's a
lot of covering ground and not as much hunting, you know,
guys out there. You know, you go hunting over the
counter unit for elk in Colorado. You know, if it's

(32:39):
the first week, you probably better off sitting on that
water all day, even though most people can't do it right.
And turkeys, I think we just don't give them enough time.
And you got to think, you know, sometimes these birds,
you know, we all love that bird that runs in, right,
A lot of them don't, especially when it's greened up
and they've had some pressure.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
They just need time yep.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
And and the other thing that I've noticed, just after
doing it a lot, no matter how brushy we it is,
I feel like I've got like better than normal eyesight
and can pick things up that are unnatural. And we've
had birds coming in where I know there's a bird
within eighty or ninety yards and I can't pick the
dang thing up, and you know that little head's bobbing around,
and so it's like, be patient, don't move, only move

(33:24):
when you know, when when you absolutely know, because we've
all taken those risks like getting our gun up or
turning where we think the bird's gonna come. And and
you know, that kind of tags on to the patients
of time, but it's like they're so good, and it's
it's seeing you, seeing movement, seeing any of that that
you know, being patient, only moving when you can it
is going to be to your advantage because like you said,

(33:45):
I've I've flushed birds by getting up after half hour.
I've I've got birds to run away because I've you know,
moved my knee at the wrong time. Yeah, patience goes
a long way when turkey and you know, being just
being comfortable. That is one thing me and Jordan talked
about last last week on the podcast was becoming as
comfortable as you can under the tree. We've actually went

(34:07):
to using foldable like low sitting chairs just because we
can sit there for hours and not have to move,
and it's it's as stupid as a little chair would seem.
Has probably upped my odds, you know, fifty percent on
those long caulums just because I'm more willing to sit
there for long sits.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, you got to be comfortable, Yeah, I mean, if
you need to pop out a little blind or whatever,
it's so important if it'll keep you there.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yep, yep, for sure. So I want to talk about
patterning off the roost back when I was younger, maybe
a little more bloodthirsty. One thing, every morning we needed
to kill the turkeys that we sat up on, you know,
we we sat up on those so we would literally
chase those turkeys until we bumped them or kill them.
It seemed like every time. And so one thing is
we're getting older, is more patterning off the roost. If

(34:50):
you have time available within the hunt, you know you
have five six more days, do you ever pattern off
the roosts? Like these birds sat here, they went this way.
I'm gonna take that a the learning dam. I'm gonna
leave them alone. I'm gonna listen to them, I'm gonna
show them, but I'm never gonna get close enough to
bump them and then use that against them on the
following day. And how important that can be, you know,
for your excess, especially on public ground where you're you're

(35:12):
finding you know, maybe not as many birds as you want.
And that's really your only play.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
All the time.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
I mean, that's I'm a scouter man, and I like observation,
and so if I and that, I mean again, that's
kind of the patient's thing.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
If you if you have to.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Sandbag a day to kind of watch them and that's
so hard to do with Turkey's because you can always
move in on them. But like I said, you know,
if you see them do something, as long as you
know the conditions don't drastically change or somebody comes in
there and blows it up, they're gonna do it tomorrow.
And I think you know, when you talk about patterning
off the roost, I mean that's you know that guys

(35:49):
were preaching about that in Alabama fifty years ago, right,
that's like kind of old school advice. I take it
way further and I go, can you pattern them throughout
the day? You know, because a lot of times they're
not that killable off the roost. I shouldn't say they're
not that callable off the roost, because they're gonna be
following those hens and they're gonna play that game till
nine and ten o'clock in the morning, and then you

(36:10):
start getting a window on a lot of birds. And
so yeah, it's great to know where they're gonna start
and where they're gonna end.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Up, super valuable.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
But if you also know where they end up at
noon or you know, ten in the morning or two
in the afternoon, then you're really putting something together.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah, we used to. Like I said you, I would
for some reason justify the decision we would make that
I think we can crawl to this point and cross
that fence there, and then we'll catch back up to
them and kill that bird, right because we've watched them
all morning, versus I think as we've I've grown up
as a trick Kennery like, well, they walked by that

(36:47):
little pinch point on the ridge meadow or whatever it
may be. You know, they walked by there, They're most
likely you know it tomorrow, Let's just go back and
have a sandwich, or go try to locate some other
birds that we haven't. You know, we may not screw
up and then go and kill that bird tomorrow because
chances are, you know, as long as they don't get
bumped and not crazy weather wind switches, they're gonna be
back in that same area Versus me trying to justify

(37:07):
how I'm gonna crawl through a field and go kill
that bird when you know chances are under a percent.
You know, before we before we do it, do it.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
But that's a rite of passage.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
When you're when you're starting out, you're gonna you're gonna
get too close a lot, and there's nothing there's like
no easier way to blow up a hunt, to get
in too close to the roost in the morning. Like
it's just it's hard, man.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah. So another great segue into cutting the distance. You
know the name of the podcast and it's one of
those things, is you know, to cut the distance. There's
two ways that can be accomplished. One you either have
the bird cut the distance or you use your own
feet to cut the distance. I feel that cutting the
distance as a turkey hunter is maybe you know, the

(37:52):
highest level of achievement as far as like woodsmanship go.
You know, yeah, they can't smell you, so you can
approach from any direction. But as far as like getting caught,
needing to use terrain vegetation to your advantage and not
getting picked off is as tough as it gets while
you're wild turkey on you, especially since there's multiple eyes.
But in your opinion, like how close do you want

(38:13):
to be before you start your calling? And you may
have to add some context to that as far as
you know vegetation what it allows, But what's your ideal
like always closer the better? But but what's that like
magic circle to that bird.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
You know.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
I think, like you know, seventy five to one hundred
yards is like red zone for a turkey, Like I
think if you can get into that range, I mean
I've had so many times, not a ton, but I've
killed quite a few birds in my life where I
heard them or I knew they were there and I
got into as close as I was like, this is

(38:49):
as much as I'm gonna risk it, and I'll scratch
out a spot to sit and that's enough. I mean,
they're coming because you're just you're there, you know, And
it's so for me, it's it's, you know, pretty close.
But you know, if you get to seventy five yards
on a bird and you especially early season, you're in
trouble a lot of times. And so it kind of
depends if it's earlier late and I'm I'm not huge

(39:12):
on pushing it too much, you know, like if I
know there's a bird there and I think I can
work him, I don't need to be super close, and
so I would say just kind of again, be a
little bit cautious. But sometimes the terrain lets you get
right there, you know. I mean I killed a bird
in Nebraska a few years ago with my bow. It
was just strutting his ass off on a ridge top

(39:33):
and he was I couldn't get him down to where
I was. And I got up there and I got
real close to that bird because I had a quiet
way to get up there, and I called him over
that ridge because I was like twenty yards away before
I made a peep. And then you know, you're I mean,
you're talking a little soft, you know, like real, You're
not gonna blow his ears out here. But for that
bird to walk over and look, you know, and if

(39:53):
you can get to like fifty yards on him even
you know, especially if you're gun hunting man, they're gonna
give you your look like you're you're gonna get your chance,
but you better be ready.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Is there ever a situation where you feel like stalking
the turkey is the right answer versus setting up and
trying to call? Have you ever?

Speaker 3 (40:10):
You know, I I've killed birds that way.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
I mean, it's just it, you can do it, you know.
I just love calling them, you know, I love I
love that part of the process. And so that's that's
part of the reason I bowl on them so much,
is it's such an accomplishment to me, just get them,
you know, like my decoys are seven yards away and
I want them. I want them to buy the whole thing,
you know, And so yeah, I mean you can do it,
but it's you know, especially when you're out west and

(40:36):
they're super visible, like that's a that's a possibility. But
if you want to, if you want to really enjoy
turkey hunting, you learn how to call.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, yeah, I love calling them. But there was there
was one bird where I had just got my ass
whipped all morning. Right we were on six or seven setups.
I had lost a couple of decoys because I didn't
want to go grab them while I was still trying
to stay with the birds. And you know, they had
one of those nasty old boss hens that just drug
them away from our setup every time. And as much
as I'd rather call them in, like there was something
satisfying about, you know, a flock of I think it

(41:05):
was fourteen or fifteen birds, and I enjoyed it. But yeah,
they're on public ground. It's always a little bit dangerous. Yep,
you know, you're you're and but yeah, it's it's definitely
a different challenge. But but I think I'm like, you'd
rather call them in, And that leads me to my
next question. We talk a lot about calling birds on
and cutting distance, but can you kind of roll through
kind of your calling system, Like is there a strategy

(41:26):
you've mentioned in the past on public land sometimes you'll
actually do the opposite of what you think call out
or if you're hunting private birds, like just kind of
go through your your calling system if there is one,
or so.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
I like to unless I unless I know where the
birds are and I know the birds I'm working, are
you know they're three hundred yards away or whatever. Let's
just say, if I'm running and gunning and I set
up in a spot, I stop at a spot, I'm
my god, is the spot? I'm always going to check
them real quiet, like real soft yelps, a little bit
of per and maybe just to see you know, because

(42:01):
a lot of times you might not get a tom
to gobble, but you'll get a hand to respond. And
so they I mean, they almost always give you a
courtesy yelp.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Right, so not to stop you here real quick. So
even if you think you're a couple hundred yards away,
you're gonna go to Turkey calls versus using your locators
anymore or or like, That's one thing I still struggle
with is we think there's a bird here, I almost
want to know where he's at. Again. Do you go
to your turkey calls now or do you go to
your locators?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
I go to my turkey calls mostly if I'm if
I'm in a situation where I'm moving and there's times
where I'm going to use a locator a lot. But
if I'm just going through the states of the dead
time in the morning and I don't have much going on,
if I find a place where I'm like, I want
to set up here, right for whatever reason, this is
the spot, and I'm committed to it already, I'm gonna

(42:49):
set up, and I'm gonna start soft, and you know,
I'll ramp it up if I don't get a response
after a while. But almost every calling sequence that I
have that's a cold call, I'm starting off so off
just in case, and then I never leave without doing
a locator, you know, one more, Yeah, just going away, Yeah,
just because you know, like you don't know man like that,

(43:12):
he might not hit anything you make in that crow
caller that awl who might get him, or you know,
you gobble and the depending on where you're at, gobble
with a mouth, callar whatever.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
But yeah, it just depends.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
But I always I always just assume, like, maybe there's
one close and I want to, like, I want to
know it, even if it's just a lone hen or something.
I want to know they're there before I really ramp
it up.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
So are you are you under the idea that you
just kind of feed him what he likes? Are you
going to start with real soft clucks and purrs and
then kind of graduate are you going to always go
to our seventh You know, we talked about the seven
to nine note yop like is there? You know, we
always talk about levels of threat when we're elk hunting.
You know, we're we go in there. We don't necessarily

(43:53):
want to. We do at times depending on the bulls
demeanor leading up to that. But you know, we may
rip his head off right off the bat, or we
may like, let's try a cal cal, see if he
hooks on that, and then if not, let's try an
excited cal cal and if that doesn't work, maybe we'll
do like a little moaning bugle, you know, and you
kind of run these progressions because there is times no
matter how much we get uh, you know, we get
accused of biggling too much into aggressively. There are some

(44:16):
progressions we run kind of what's your thought there? Are
you gonna just kind of start like the lowest level
or are you just gonna read the situation or what's
the first peep coming out of your mouth? And how
do you decide? Kind of.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
I start quiet, but I don't stay there very long.
And if you know, especially if I've got a bird,
I'm like that bird's hot, or I've got a hen
that's responding. When I get a hen to respond, I
go after her hard.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
I'm not a I get after it like I like,
you know, because we always think, like you know, softer
is always better, and I do like to start that way.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
But I like to have a conversation with them.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
And I think you I think you can turn them on,
you know, like I think you get those birds that yeah,
I'll respond, But if you're you know, three or five
yelps and you're done, or you know, just just soft
stuff like they're like, yeah, that's what turkeys do when
they're not really doing anything. But you know, like you
mentioned that, you know, boss hen leading that gobbler away.
Like my favorite thing is when I get that hen

(45:16):
to talk to me and I can piss her off
up on her. Yeah, if you get that hen, if
you get a hen that's that's angry and she starts cutting,
you're gonna get a bird fired out, Like there's there's
nothing better out there. And you know, I really learn
this hunt fall birds because hens get real territorial in
the fall and they'll come in and chest bump decoys.

(45:37):
I mean, you see it in the spring too, but
it's real common in the fall for them to get
territorial over food sources. And man, when you get them
going and they're pissed, the world changes. And so I mean,
if you have a live hen doing that, that's great.
But you can do that. I mean, I can do
that with a mouth call on and a pot call
and you know you can do it with a box
call too, But you can make that like confrontation shou happen,

(46:01):
and Tom's just freaking love it.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, I'm I'm with you, Like, there's nothing better than
when you get a tom hooked on cutting, because then
you know, like you're at the you know, you can
just be as aggressive as possible, and you know when
they gobble every cut, you're just like, the game's too easy.
I don't want to say too easy at that point,
but it's that it's way better than the bird where
you're like, all he doesn't answer klucks, he doesn't answer
it a yelop. You know, it's like you're trying to
figure out what's gonna work, and maybe you know nothing does.
But I'm I'm similar. You kind of start slow, but

(46:25):
as you know, you run through your four or five
different progressions and if none of them hook, you run
back through them loud, and then if nothing hooks, you're
just like, all right, I don't know what to do
or it's gonna be a real tough bird to call him.
But yeah, I think similar to you, we go loud
real quick, and.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
I mean, but you're you're also at like a huge
advantage if you can see them right, you know, cause
I mean, you see this a lot where you know that,
especially like a Loane Toms, you see us a lot
where they'll come out in the field, they're scratching. You know,
they'll throw you some struts, gobbles, whatever, like they're they're
kind of doing the thing, but you can tell it's
probably not the bird you want to just go after.
He can see your decoys, he can hear you, and

(47:00):
I go the opposite way with a bird like that,
if I can watch him where then I do a
lot of soft purring and clucking and just like little
hen chatter back and forth where it's you know, if
you're gun hunting. It's different with bowl hunting because a
lot of times they won't commit right to the decoys,
but you'll get that drive by and they'll be in
gun range and it's one of those things it's just
kind of like it kind of just like pulls them closer.

(47:21):
Whether it's not that typical run in and just make
it happen, but they're like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna
get closer to you.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Ladies just cuts yep.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
And that's we could ask quite a bit like when
do you just stop calling you because you hear a
lot of you know, that's just as in my opinion,
sometimes just as valuable as the calling, especially turkeys, and
I use that no calling is when you've got a
turkey that's not super fired up, not super interested, but
it seems like he's closed some distance. I'll just go
to like similar to you all setme, I watch for

(47:51):
fifteen minutes. He obviously knows exactly what tree I'm under.
When he gets to a certain spot, he's gonna be
able to see my decoys. One thing I have to
do is just make sure my gun's kind of pointed
in this somewhat right direction, because he's gonna probably be
silent as I'm silent. But yeah, you either be quiet
and then either one he'll come all the way in
silent or he gets he gets a little bit frustrated,

(48:11):
maybe five, seven, ten minutes into that wait and I'll
finally gobble again. And then it seems like you can
get him fired up after that versus like just giving him.
And so that's kind of when I'll use that silent
treatment is when I think I got something semi interested,
kind of knows where we're at. There's not a lot
more calling needed. He's either gonna come or not, And
then just go quiet for a little bit.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, that that bird that lets you know he's there
and is just doesn't feel workable. You just gotta let
it breathe for a while and you know. I mean
sometimes they come in, sometimes they don't. But sometimes in
that situation, all it takes is another bird somewhere else,
you know. I mean you see this a lot on
a field edge where you're calling to that bird and
he's strutting. He's not coming. He can he can see

(48:51):
the decoys. He's like, you guys can see me. And
then you know, two jakes walk out in the other
corner or something. You know, something changes the dynamic and
then all all of the sudden, you know, like now
he's callable. But that is a you know, learning that,
like you can't like you could tell people that like,
oh you got to take a break, like that's like
just an experienced thing.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah. Yeah, I have to put it through through a
lot of time, Like you say, just just let it
Breathe is sometimes gonna gonna get that that that turkey
fired up even more. In closing, what is one tip

(49:31):
you would give a turkey hunter to help them find
success this this spring as far as like, you know,
an idea theme, you know calling, uh, you know, perseverance,
whatever it may be.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
You know, I would We talked a lot about scouting,
but I I I honestly think what makes turkey hunters
is just confidence with the calls. And so I would
say I think everybody should know how to use a
mouth call just because and you know whatever, people have
their preferences, but I would say, if nothing else, figure

(50:06):
out how to yelp well with something you know. And
I like, you know, I like mouth calls for a
lot of reasons, but I would say, learn something. Learn that,
like you don't have to you know, purse clucks whatever,
Like you don't have to do you can kill a
lot of birds just yelping, but you gotta know how
to do it. And it's it is not a sound

(50:27):
when you listen to somebody yelp. You know, it's like
a two note sound. And people listen to other callers
and it's like too fast. The cadence is just a
little off and they're not breaking that that note right,
Like it's just like a one note, too fast cadence
and it's unnatural. But you know, if you listen to
somebody do it, it's like, okay, well it doesn't it

(50:48):
sounds like a turkey whatever. Then you listen to a
real turkey and you go, okay, they're a lot slower,
and there's like a real distinct break in each yelp,
And I say, just like, master that as best. You
can work on it in your truck when you're driving whatever.
Because once you get that confidence, you're gonna call in
more birds. You're gonna hear them make real sounds, and
you're just gonna your your vocabulary is gonna expand.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
But you got to have that confidence first.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yep. Perfect, Perfect, So, Tony, how can people find out
more about you? How they can they follow along with
what you're doing? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:20):
They can, Uh, you know, head on over to Instagram
at Tony J.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Peterson.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
And you know, I'm a meat eater full timer, so
all of my stuff is at the medeater dot com
writing tons of.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Tons of Turkey articles right now.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Perfect.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
But yeah, there's you know, there's a lot of good
information out there.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, well, really appreciate you having on here, are having
you on here today? Wealth of information both Whitetail and
obviously Turkey.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
So we got to talk to Turkey, but we got
to talk white Tales, but.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
We're gonna have We're gonna get you dialed up here
for a white Tail episode for sure.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Awesome, Thanks man, Thanks a lot, Tony,