May 18, 2023 • 37 mins
This week on the show, Jason's mixed it up and gone solo as he answers your listener questions and discusses planning your elk hunt. From e-scouting and calling to mountain readiness and boot considerations, if you're considering an elk hunt this year, you won't want to miss this!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today, We're gonna have
a little different feel to the show. I'm not gonna
have a guest on. We're gonna jump into preparing for
an el cunt. We get a lot of questions as
far as I'm coming on my first l cunt or
they've experienced maybe some lowland front country and they're wanting
to expand they're wanting to go a little bit deeper,
they're wanting to try new areas. So we're gonna just
(00:31):
I'm gonna go ahead and take some user questions, and
then I'm just going to go over seven eight different
points that I think can really help you as you
prepare for your upcoming L hunt this year. So the
first thing we're going to jump into, like I said,
user questions, I'm gonna go ahead and answer these. And
if you have any questions of your own for us
here at Cutting the Distance, either myself or our guests,
(00:53):
feel free to email us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls
dot com. We'll do our best to get those questions answered.
You can also message us on social media if that's easier. So,
the first question, what ELK sounds should I be able
to make and how good of a caller do I
need to be before I head into the woods in September. So,
(01:15):
in my opinion, you can go into the Elk woods
with just a I mean, you can count them on one hand.
I would say, first of all, you need to be
able to make a location bugle without getting too deep
into it. I would say, just any bugle. If you
can make a location bugle or a challenge bugle, or
one or the other.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
That's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I'll do a little bit to explain the difference between
a location bugle and a challenge bogle. So a location
bugle is typically a three note two to three no
very high note bugle, and it's not going to have
a lot of rasp to it. It's going to be
very clean, and I usually keep it about two to
three seconds so then I can hear to make sure
that a bull is going to respond.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So if we were.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
To describe a location bugle, it's two to three note,
very high. We're not adding a lot of void, We're
not adding the grould at the beginning. I'm just a
very clean note that's intended to travel very far, you know,
across the canyon down into a canyon. And I've always
said that if I know I'm doing it right, when
that high note is ear piercing, when it's kind of
(02:14):
rattling my own brain, when it's kind of getting to
my you know, it's a it's almost an obnoxious ring.
When we get that location bugle to that volume and
that pitch is really where it seems like we get
the best response from the elk. And to be honest,
that's the call that we're going to use. Probably you know,
over seventy five percent of time, three quarters, maybe even
(02:35):
up to ninety percent, is your walking ridges, as you're
walking trails, as you're in the woods. You're going to
just be using location bugles for the majority of the time.
If if I'm on maybe you know, warm sign or
I can smell elk or we've got fresh tracks, I
may locate with a cow call or a loud cow
call off of specific points, But most of the time
we're using location bugles as we walk by. Second, of all,
(02:56):
you need to be able to make just your typical
cow call, your your meal. Yeah, that's all we're doing.
You need to be able to make a clean cow call.
If you can do that, you can put a little
more pressure on the read, shorten it up, and get
your calf call not as important in my opinion, But
if you can have that cow call, you're gonna be
you know, able able to replicate that and use it
where needed. Third, uh, I use estros wines a lot,
(03:19):
and there we can argue all day amongst guys that
that you know the term, what each call is and
what his name should be. But in my opinion, and
estress wine is when a cow is is coming into estrus,
she needs a little more attention from her bowls. So
instead of the typical yeah, you know, our our typical
(03:39):
cow sound, that's gonna be wavy. So it's gonna go
high low, hilow, and we're gonna we're gonna use those
estress wines to then tell that bowl to come over here.
I need some attention, Come pay attention to me. So
I go on with an an estress wine, and then
I would say, like the fourth sound we need to
be able to do is do some sort of a
challenge bugle a little more aggression. It's got some of
(04:03):
that growl and throatiness in the beginning. You're gonna add
some voice back into it. You know, using your your throat,
your veil, you know, using that back of your throat
to really you know, add some of that growl and
real realism to the call. And then I also like
to be able to either add grunts or chuckles onto
(04:24):
the end of that bugle to add some realism. And
aside from that, that's really what you need to be
able to make those four sounds. So on the bugle side,
a location bugle, add a little bit of aggression and
in the grunt. And then on the cow side, if
we can go out with a good cow mew and
then like an estriss wine, we're gonna be we're gonna
be really really well off. And I would say we
(04:47):
we throw some other stuff in like screams, bark, chuckles,
you know, uh, estress buzzes.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
There.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
There's some other sounds that we will throw in that
we will make at certain times, but for the majority
of time they're not necessarily needed. And then we've answered
this a lot before, but how good of a color
do you need to be in? In my opinion, it's
much more important to know when to call and kind
of what to say and how to react to the
situation than it is on how good you are. Yes,
(05:15):
it's important. A lot of times we'll use mimicry as
some of our strategy. It makes a lot of sense
to be able to mimic that animal, and it takes
some skill to figure out or know what you need
to do to that diaphragm to be able to make
that sound.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So not as important of being a good caller.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
More important as knowing when and how to react the situation,
read it and know when you need to call, when
to add some intensity, when to move in some of
those things, And then it wasn't really in the question.
You can accomplish all of this either through diaphragms through
If you can't use that, you can use some of
our external cal calls like the easy s just the
(05:52):
easy sucker. If you can't run a diaphragm through just
a standard bigle tube or grunt tube, we've got the
easy biggler that will then also allow you to be
able to make those bagles. So there are a lot
of combinations you can use to be able to make
those four elk sounds that we talked about that I
just mentioned. You need to be able to be able
to make as you head out into the elk woods.
(06:13):
The second question, how do I decide where to go
elk cutting? So you know, we get these questions a
lot from people back east, even people around home that
have only ever hunted around home. They're just trying to
figure out where can you go? L count where are
their opportunities? And as cliche as it sounds, you have
to have you know, that elk tag. You have to
have the opportunity before you can go hunt these elk
(06:35):
and so the first way is through most of these
western states, even some of the Eastern states now that
are starting to get re established herds of elk is.
You'll have to have points for most states, with Idaho
and New Mexico being the exception. But they also don't
allow over the counter opportunities, so you have to make
sure to get into those draws. Idaho requires you to
one either jump into their I would call it their
(06:59):
waiting room lottery on December first, which has already passed us.
So you're not gonna be able to get that elk
tag for this year, but it's it's held pretty steady
that date for the last two years. And New Mexico
doesn't have points, so it's it's also already passed us.
But you also have to front the money for the
tag up front, so it detours a few people, I
(07:20):
would say, from applying. So those two states don't have points.
The rest of the states across the west have points.
So you're uh, your Nevada, your Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, everything
requires some points. Colorado does have a lot of over
the counter, which I'll also get to, but Colorado has points.
(07:41):
And then there are these states that don't have points.
So and it's it's it's this list is becoming smaller
and smaller as years ago on, as people implement systems,
as they add units to the systems. So and I
may be a little bit incorrect here, but but for
the I would say, for conversation's sake and the majority
of the opportunity, the states that you haven't over the
(08:03):
counter opportunity in right now are Washington, and that would
be west and east. But I would say when we
consider over the counter in Washington, they're mainly talking about
Roosevelt's West of the Cascades. There is some decent eastern
Washington opportunity, but you're going to be hunting spikes or
in units that maybe don't have high densities of elk.
You have the same inn organ where you now need
(08:24):
to apply, but you can do over the counter on
the west side. Colorado has a lot of over the
counter opportunities, and there are a few places in Utah
where there's some over the counter opportunities. But that's really
if you haven't been in the draws or don't have
a tag and you're wanting to get out this year,
you need to kind of focus your efforts on those
three states Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and that's how you're going
(08:47):
to have to find opportunity. Wyoming used to be a
place you could go hunt maybe every two years. Looking
at the dry out numbers this year, it looks like
at maybe four four and a half, maybe even five
points now just to hunt general in Wyoming. Fingers crossed
as a non resident that they don't implement the ninety
ten split there because I feel that we would bump
(09:08):
that number up just six seven eight years to draw
a Wyoming elk tag, and Wyoming is a special place
to elk hunt, really really enjoy it. But they're making
some changes to potentially get their residents additional tags, which
I can't fault them for but it would hurt me
as a non resident.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
So yeah, you either got to be in the point game.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
You got a few states you can do over the counter,
and that's you're going to have to figure out where
to get that tag.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So that you can go go on your hunt.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Would you recommend going with a guide for your first
elk hunt. I've always said the best way to learn
elk hunting is to go with someone who knows what
they're doing. You can cut years, five, ten, twenty years
off of what it may take to get to that
experience level if you go with somebody that's been there
before and teach you what to do and what not
(09:57):
to do. So you can learn by going with somebody
that knows or an outfitter or a guide. As long
as they're good and reputable, they will knock off the
learning curve and then you'll have that knowledge for the
rest of your life. So I can only voice my
opinion that if you've got the financial resources and the
ability to go with a guide for your first all cunt,
I think it's a great way to go about it.
(10:19):
If you're only wanting to go on maybe one l
cunt and you don't plan on going in the future,
it would still be a good idea to potentially go
with a guide or outfitter. The odds for success are
going to be drastically higher than if you were to
do it on your own. But on the contrary, there's
something special about if you were to go out do
it on your own research scout, which we're going to
(10:41):
get into here in the discussion. If you can put
some of these things together and do it on your own,
there's a lot more satisfaction potentially involved. Maybe you don't
care how you know how you kill an elk and
so it doesn't matter, And by all means, go with
a guide outfitter. Learn what they know and then you
can apply that for you know, all of your future
a cunts. So it's really just up to you your finances.
(11:03):
One thing I would highly recommend is vetting your guider outfitter.
Make sure they they're reputable, make sure they do things
the right way, make sure they hunt hard.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I don't dog on private land hunting, but an elk
with a guide an outfitter on private land where it's
gonna be a lot different than a guider outfitter that
takes in the mountains and you know, nothing's nothing's a gimme,
nothing's patterned. Maybe I say nothing's patterned. Nothing's patterned to
the point of a lot of private land hunts and
you're gonna have to hunt, You're gonna have to work,
You're gonna have to you know, and that's really where
(11:36):
you're gonna learn it and kind of start to gain
that knowledge base that will pay off year after years.
So that's that's my answer for those three questions. Once again,
you have questions of your own, feel free to email
us at CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com, or
hit us up on social media, send us a message,
and we'll try to plug these into the podcast. So
(12:06):
let's assume that we've we've got the tag going off
of that that listener question. You know, you got to
find the tag first. Let's assume you've got to tag.
What do you do Once you've got to tag? You
either confined to a unit, you're confined too at general areas.
You know, Montana's got some tags that are you know,
(12:26):
nine hundred series that are kind of scattered all over
the state. You've got Wyoming where you get a general
tag and you've got kind of checkerboarded units all across
the state you can hunt, you know, a Montana big game,
you can hunt a lot of units aside from the
selected units. So you really just have to figure out
now that you've got to tag, where are you gonna hunt?
Same with Oregon, Washington. You know you've got to You've
got an over the counter tag, You've got a lot
(12:47):
of units to choose from. How are you going to
zero in on a place to park your truck to
camp to go out after out? So one thing we're
gonna get into is looking at success. Uh. First thing
I do if I was a draw general tag is
start to go through you know, whether it's it's go hunt,
(13:09):
whether it's the fish and Wildlife website, brochures, harvest statistics,
any of that. I'm going to start there and look
at what I'm trying to accomplish. If you're just looking
to kill any legal cows and bowls, I would go
look at population densities, I would go look at hunter success.
(13:32):
I would also hunter success and one hundred days in
the field for success are two different things as well,
So you can start to look at that and if
if killing any elk is what your goal is, go
off of that, and then you're we're gonna talk about
some other things here. You're gonna want to vet that,
confirm it, and I'll give you some resources here in
(13:54):
a little bit. If you're if you're wanting to hunt
any bowl, maybe maybe your your goal wasn't to kill
a cow, but any bowl, you can then go start
to look at percent by you know, harvest bisex and
maybe maybe you don't care if it's a six plus
you know, six point plus bowl and you're just looking
at any bowl, then you can start to weed through
that information. If if I'm going to a unit that
(14:17):
has or or if I'm looking to harvest a bowl
that is, you know, six plus points are better, I'm
looking for something big, mature, I'm willing to then also
sacrifice hunter success and one hundred days in the field.
And like my main the my priority is on percent
of bulls that are taken out of the unit that
(14:38):
are six point or better. I typically want like lower
hunter numbers, So i want a unit that has big bulls,
doesn't have as many hunters, And I'm really trying to
look at at some of that to to figure out
what unit I'm going to hunt. And another thing that's
more I would say maybe is even specific to me.
There are some people that will go out there and
they don't really care what they're hunting or what type
(14:58):
of terrain they're hunting. U you know, whether it's flatlands,
whether it's rolling hills, whether it's blm. I coming from
Southwest Washington, where I grew up hunting in what I
would consider the jungle, you know, Devil's clubs in the
bottom ferns, brush just you know, kind of that rainforest setting.
When I leave Washington or or Western Washington, I don't
(15:21):
want to go into a brushole, you know. So I'm
going to avoid avoid North Idaho. I'm going to avoid
some of those places that are just thick and brushy.
I'm looking for something, you know, above tree line. I
want to get up in the mountains. I want to
have a mix of alpine and subalpine and then you know,
crick and river bottoms. So I'm also looking for something
that's maybe even completely separated from the elk or the
(15:43):
elk successes in that area. I'm looking for certain terrain
and certain areas and canyon country that I want to
hunt versus say, rolling hills, you know, or something like that. Now,
when I you know, I'm hunted New Mexico before, and
we are, we're in you know, rolling Juniper, and you
you adapt to it. You may work it's elk cunning.
I still love it. But for the most part, I'm
also trying to find a place that I just like
(16:06):
to be in. So we've looked at harvest statistics, I
then look at places I want to hunt, and that
kind of starts to zero me in, and then some
of these other points that I'm going to get into
will well.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Then further that.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
The first thing I do after that, I've kind of
zoned in on an area and it's going to be
called a biologist. But but I don't want to call
a biologist with an empty question how are the elk doing?
Where should I hunt? Because when you ask that question,
that biologist has given the same answer to everybody else
that calls for unit. I have a hard time believing
(17:02):
that that biologist is like, you know what, last time
I told somebody go to you know, Mountain A, and
this time I'm going to tell somebody to go to
Mountain B. And then the next color I'll tell to
go to Mountain c You're getting a very generic answer
of an area where he may know people harvest elk
and people have harvested in the past, and they don't
give you very good data. And they may not have
(17:24):
good data when you bring them specific spots, drainages or areas.
But at least you're starting to ask those questions and
you're not going to get the generic answer. So I
would like to pick up the phone and call the biologists,
get a little bit of understanding on like are these
elk migrating, when do they finish their migration up into
the high country, what does the herd health look like?
(17:45):
And then maybe some of these biologists are really good
in know their unit or a lot of times if
I give him areas they're not sure about, they'll give
me a call back, they'll do some research, ask around.
So I like to call a biologist just to get
a feel for it. It may not be the best information,
but at least it's it kind of adds to that
portfolio for your hunt.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You know, what are they all doing.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Maybe they've got good data on where you're at, Maybe
maybe they don't.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So I always call it. But I'll just get that
out of the way. I then.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Like to just kind of call the outfitters and I'm
upfront in the area if there is an outfitter or
a guide work in the area, like, hey, I drew
a tag for this unit, or I've got a tag
for this unit, or I've got a tag I'm thinking
about but going there, I'm just getting some information, you know,
not wanting to step on your toes. We're looking to
make sure we're not in the same area, you know,
because a lot of them even let you know what
where their camps are at, what drainages they're in, you know,
(18:37):
even on their websites and whatnot. So a lot of
times they don't want you to necessarily be in their
area anyway, so they will give you good advice on
maybe what drainage to try, what the pressure is like
in an area. They can, you know, they can give
you some of that information without really hurting their clients
hunts and whatnot. So I always like to call outfitters
(18:57):
or guides that are in the area just to kind
of see what they have. And sometimes they they'll give
you information. Sometimes they're tight lipped and they won't and
then I always take what they give me a little
bit with the grain of salt, because you never know
if they're trying to throw you off or send you
into a dead zone, any of that. So call the
outfitters in the area, figure out what's going on in
that area as far as heavy outfitter traffic, and then
(19:19):
I try to avoid that and hope that they give
me a good answer so I can avoid them as well.
I also like to call the owner of the property,
whether it's for a service, whether it's a BLM, whether
it's any of the following DNR and get their opinion
on the area, how busy it is, what they see
for rigs parked at gates or trailheads. What's my access
(19:42):
in there going to be like, because a lot of
times I can see roads and whatnot on on X
maybe they don't have a gate in the right spot,
or there's a lot of seasonal shutdowns where RMEF or
a game department has partnered with the owner and they
shut a gate on a certain date September First, this
gate shut well on the map, it looks like I
could have drove another five or six miles or whatnot.
(20:06):
So I like to call the owner of the property,
make sure that my access that I had planned on
getting to is going to be there, and then you know,
just just kind of run that by them. And then
once again, I'm I'm not necessarily scared of any traffic,
whether it's you know, driving for wheler, motorcycle, hiking, whatever
(20:28):
it may be. But I don't want to just be
in a very, very busy area. I'll take a moderate
to light area, but I don't want to throw myself
into an area that's just packed with people. So calling
the owner is great for that. I always E scout
and I'll do a lot of ES scouting, probably prior
to calling the biologists and the owner. I spend a
(20:48):
ton of time E scouting, and I will I'm looking
for the three things that Elk are gonna need. I'm
looking for cover, I'm looking for food, and I'm looking
for water, you know, and Elk.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Needs a drink.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It's very I may be saying something that's very obvious
for most people, but if you always tie everything back
to that, it's it's gonna it's gonna work better. So
you they can't they can't sustain, they can't be there
without one of those three. So I'm always looking for
where's their water source? So they're gonna be able to drop
to a creek. Do they got a pond, Do they
have wallows? Do they have benches?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Like? Where are they gonna get their water from?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
They need to have some ability to escape hunters, predators, danger, heat,
whatever it may be. In September, So I'm looking for
bedding areas. You know, I'm looking for stuff on the
north slope, I'm looking for shade. I'm looking for, you know,
spots where they can escape, be safe, not be seen.
And then I'm looking for a good food source. And
that that really depends on on where you're hunting. You know,
(21:52):
if you're in the high country of Colorado, all of
their food may be green grasses and green and shrubs
above tree line. If I'm hunting here in western Washington,
I'm looking for green, lush clearcuts where those elk are
gonna come feed and then they're gonna go back to
timber where that that example I used in Colorado, those
elk are going to go up above tree line and
then they're going to feed back down into the timber
(22:14):
or into their their bedding area and then uh, you know,
like that that escapement. The betting areas, you're looking for
big timber, you're looking for pockets. You know, ideally there's
a spring or water at that spot. Benches, but what
keep in mind that isn't always a telltale sign. I
just prefer benches in an area because it it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Guarantee, but it gives me a higher percentage. I know
where they're going to be betting.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
But we've seen elk bedded on fifty degree slopes and
they're just fine. They you know, they've kicked out above
a tree, they've got their betting there, So that that
that will also know they can bedding near anywhere. But
we're looking for for areas with with with all of
those features. And then one thing that I really like
to look for in a specific area is a good
(23:00):
set of ridges that connect. I work pretty inefficient if
I've got to drop off of a finger ridge across
a canyon to get on another one. So I really
like a high ridge line running through the area where
I can cover a lot of ground, or if I've
got a trail towards the top of that, so one
or the other, either I can walk the ridge fairly
easy without being cliffed out or cut off, or I
(23:21):
can walk a ridge trail that keeps me pretty high
in elevation. And I love to be able to call
down into that canyon, be able to reach above me,
and be able to cover that entire canyon with my
location bagle. So I'm looking for that more canyon country
where we can call across, we can glass across, which
(23:42):
is very very important for my elk cutting successes. I
want to also be able to glass, and that's where
I'm drawn to some of that alpine subalpine stuff where
we can get up, we can glass avalanche shoots above
tree line and really kind of set up our hunt
and I don't intend to get in to that, but
that's something I'm looking in an area glassing, good calling, and
(24:04):
then be able to cover a lot of ground. And
with those three things it starts to stack the odds
of success in my favor. And then now that we've
got all this, we've we've picked an area, we've called
the biologists, we've called the property owner, we've we've you know,
did all of this. The last thing that I do,
(24:25):
and it's a brief check. It's just trying to figure
out who has hunted it before and what their take
is and and in order to figure that out, I
will go a cruise forums. A lot of times it
will be, you know, jump on Google, you type in
you know, unit X, y Z and elk in Colorado,
(24:45):
and it will tell me, you know, a lot of
times there are a forum or or something that I've
talked about that, and I'll just go read like, what
you know, we're people not seeing elk. And I always
take that once again with the grain of salt, because
I don't know how good the elk hunter is on
the other side of the keyboard, you know, whoever type that,
But it just gives me a general consensus or a
(25:06):
lot of times you'll see a guy pop up or
you know, a couple of people like, oh, you weren't
in the wrong spot, or you did it wrong, or
you didn't hunt the right spots, and it just starts
to let me know, like, all right, it's obvious that
maybe the densities are in different locations in this unit
are vastly different. So it just starts to let me know, like,
all right, I'm going to need to find spots. A
lot of times people will talk about specific areas they
(25:27):
went into and it was really really busy er lots
and lots of rigs, or they take a picture of
a of a trailhead and I start to use that
data to really hone in is my idea good or
do I need to go back to the drawing board
kind of redo everything we just talked about. Pick a
new area, pick a new you know, go back, call
a billo, just called up the property owner and kind
of go through that until the forums or social media.
(25:51):
You know, you can chearch Facebook for the same thing.
You know, units I go to YouTube see if anybody's
hunted it on video to get an idea, and then
if all this go, you know, I like to look
at the best looking spots. But then the other thing
in the back of my mind, which we've talked about,
is the difficulty of getting there. If it's right off
the road, it's probably gonna be busy. If it's one
(26:13):
to two miles in, you're probably still gonna have fifty
sixty percent of the guys in there. Once you start
to get three to four miles off the road, I'm
starting to be by myself. And then you kind of
catch back up with the horse hunters. Around seven or eight,
So I like to really plan my el hunts. Three
to eight miles from anything seems to be kind of
that sweet spot. It's it's still close enough to the truck.
(26:34):
We can get it out and a couple, you know,
a couple of packouts. But that's what I'm looking for.
And so you'll do these iterations until you go back
to the forum social media maybe. And I actually like
when somebody doesn't talk about the area that I'm in
or that I've picked with any unit, but if they
are talking highly of an area, I try to see
(26:55):
how many similarities are in between the area I picked
and the one that they're talking highly about, Like, all right,
do these trains is that going to make my spot?
Does it have all the same things, the same facing,
aspect slopes, whatever it may be, And kind of put
that all together to see if it's going to work out.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So we did all of this. We got a solid plan.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I know some of us like it's very difficult to
get out and scout all of these places, but nothing
is going to replace your boots on the ground. So
you've did all this. If you can, by any means
get out there and go improof this prior to season,
and when you're out there some of the things that
(27:37):
I like to look for the best telltale sign because
it depending on what time you get there. You go
out in July, that gives a whole lot of time.
That gives sixty, you know, anywhere from thirty to sixty
days for those elk to change their pattern, and the
greater distance between your scouting and your return, the greater
the distance of those elk could be. I'm not saying
(27:59):
it will be, but just remember if you were sixty
to you know, I would be very nervous scouting in
the in the first of July and coming back in September.
Especially the more mountainous elk that are that are doing
some migrating, the more nervous I would be going back.
Those cows are gonna move, those bulls are gonna move,
and so the closer you can get I would be
(28:20):
much much more confident. Of course, it's this is going
to be, you know, very obvious. I'd be much more
confident in my scouting the last week of August for
an archery l hunt than I would the first of July.
Things are just gonna move, and so take that with
a grain of salt, you know, or just take that
with a consideration as you do that. When I'm out
there scouting, uh anytime prior to season, one of the
(28:43):
most important things I look for is rubs that lets
me know in some way, shape or form that elk
were there during the rut. And I'm looking for concentration
in rubs, like how much time did they spend there,
was this a lone bowl, you know, traveling through the mountains,
or was this obviously an area a betting area, you know,
And if you can put the rubs together with the
(29:05):
betting area, you've kind of got the the problem solved
at that point. You know where they're going to bed,
you know, they've got a lot of rubs around that.
Because when you're out there, a lot of people want
to see elk. They want to see tracks, they want
to see you know, scot they want to see all
this stuff on the ground. But guess what, that's where
the elk are at, right then if you can find
(29:26):
rubs that kind of guarantees me they're there somewhere in
September early October, and that's where they like to run.
So that's my That's the number one thing I'm looking
for out there. When I'm scouting, I don't really care
if I see elk. I don't you know, it's always nice.
I don't care if I see tracks any of that.
Number one sign I'm looking for is rubs. And when
I find that, I then start to look kind of
scout around there, like from here, where are they getting
(29:48):
their food? If they're going to bed here, they've got
rubs here where they get in their food, where they
get in their water. And you try to put that little,
you know, mini puzzle together now that you've really because
we've already dialed down from having a tag. We then
selected unit. We then selected an area within the unit,
and now we're down to like that macro of they
they're they're betting they're eating their their feeding there, they're
(30:09):
right here. Put that together is going to help you
kind of figure those out. One thing to remember is
if you are late mid mid August, late August, and
you feel like those cows are kind of done moving
as far as their location, remember whatever bulls you've seen,
or if you haven't seen any bulls, the majority of
the time those bulls will go join up with the cows,
(30:31):
So don't necessarily concentrate on where you've seen the bulls
eating up the season, contrant on where the cows are at,
and start your hunt there. Or the other thing that
could happen is they might not be in either location.
They may go to a spot where they are left
alone during that breeding season, and it may be different
than both of those places. But I'd always focus on
cows first and then branch out from there to to
(30:53):
kind of finish finding where they're at. I'm going to
cover a few pieces of gear, and I'm not the
authority on getting in shape. I've always just said I'm
I'm too hard headed to ever quit, and I've been
doing this for twenty five years in the mountains and
know what shape I need to be in. But if
you're coming out west, or you're going to a new area,
(31:15):
or you're coming from the lowlands, the first thing you
need to do is get in shape for elk hunting.
It's not even a meal deer hunt. There's a lot
more added in. There's a lot more meat to carry out.
You know, you can hunt meal deer just as far,
if not further from the road than elk. But once
you got one down, it's a whole different ballgame, especially
if you're not hunting with a hunting partner or a group.
(31:36):
I would venture to guess the majority of people are
going to need to take at least four packouts, if
not more, and that's going to be a pretty hefty load. So,
you know, get in shape whatever means that that is.
And this is where the scouting really pays off. Or
a mountain near you just go test yourself. Can I
do two thousand feet of elevation gain over four miles?
Can I do two thousand foot elevation gain over two miles?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
You know? How long does it take?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Me?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Am? I? You know? And and just work at it,
you know. And there's there's a.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Lot of ways to do this and I'm I'm not
gonna get into them. You know, you can be a
long distance runner, your cardio is going to be great,
you can do CrossFit, you can whatever it may be.
Get your feet in shape, which we're going to talk
about boots here in a little bit. I can't stress
out enough we talk about shape as in muscular and
cardio fitness. I've had I've seen I'd say i've had
(32:28):
I've seen more people fall apart on a hunt because
of their feet than I have because of you know,
maybe their cardio or or their you know, physical physical condition.
So get your feet in shape, you know, be able
to pack eighty to ninety pounds over long distances or
over short distances, and you really need to kind of
(32:50):
gauge where you can kill an elk. It's easy to
walk two or three miles through country when it's only
you and your backpack. It's a lot different feet when
you're doing it with eighty or ninety pounds on your back,
and you know you've got to do it two, three,
four more times, depending on how many people are helping
you pack. So I'm going to diverge a little bit,
but getting the absolute best shape possible it's gonna make
(33:12):
the hunt more enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
It's gonna let you hunt.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Farther and harder, and then uh just be able to
get the animal out from from that location. Talked about
getting your feet in shape, getting into the right pair
of boots, and having boots that are ready for western
hunting or elk hunting. And I'm not talking about your
your lowland you know, your elk hunts that are down
(33:35):
around you know, private lowland BLM. Whatever I mean there's
deep private out there, so don't don't necessarily take that
out of cont you know, out of what I'm saying,
But you know, there there are different boots aren't as
near as important on a lowland hunter, front country hunt.
You get up in the mountains, you know, and you're
you're half mile mile.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Off the road.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Things get things can get pretty pretty brutal, and you're
going you're gonna want to have boots that are that
are kind of up to the task, one that fits
your feet very well, one that are comfortable, one that
you can walk six seven, eight, ten, twelve. You know, however,
many miles in that don't necessarily give you hot spots.
And so getting your boots broken prior to the hunt,
knowing that they're the right boot for you to you know,
(34:13):
climb straight up a mountain, the right boot to walk
on a flat trail for you know, miles after you know,
mile after mile.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Make sure you got your boots dialed in.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
And because it is, you know much as it may
just make sense, or maybe you just have tough feet
and it doesn't matter. When your feet fall apart, your
hunt kind of falls apart. So make sure you got
the right boots on that are that are you know,
that are right for the hunt. And then last thing
is maybe different than other hunts, is have a pack
(34:44):
that's able to carry a decent load out on the
first trip. Once I said, we're we're we're kind of
taxing ourselves. We're pushing ourselves a limit. And the last
thing you want to do is is to kill an elk,
break it down and not be able to take out
a decent amount of weight or a quarter or whatever
it may be on that first load. You want to
(35:05):
be as efficient as possible. We're gonna be war out,
we're gonna get tired, so make sure you have a
pack that's able to haul heavy loads. Have a pack
that you know you can you know, haul the heavy
load plus all of your gear that's on you at
the time, and it's gonna that's gonna be able to
withstand and be durable enough to make trip after trip
after trip. So that's kind of uh, you know, those
(35:28):
those are just a few key items you know you
when it comes to elk cunting.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I think boots and.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Packs are are very important needed to make sure that
you've got those dialed. But yeah, this is kind of
the wrap on on getting ready and planning for your
ILK cunt. Make sure you're you're stacking the odds in
your favor, You're you're in a good area, You've got
the right equipment, you're in shape, and you're ready to
go out and uh kind of tackle this area. And
(35:54):
in part two we're going to kind of expand on this.
Now that we've got an area, where are we going
when we get there? I said, where were going? When
we get there? How am I going to quickly break
the area down? Proof what we've put together on what
we've talked about. We make sure this area is gonna
hold the elk they are there, how you're gonna hunt it,
(36:14):
and then put together some put together some plans on
how you're gonna attack the unit. So I really appreciate
you guys listening. This was kind of my planning for
an elk count episode. And catch us on part two
of this episode on cutting the distance where I'm gonna
break down once you get there, proofing all this and
putting a plan together and then some strategy
Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today, We're gonna have
a little different feel to the show. I'm not gonna
have a guest on. We're gonna jump into preparing for
an el cunt. We get a lot of questions as
far as I'm coming on my first l cunt or
they've experienced maybe some lowland front country and they're wanting
to expand they're wanting to go a little bit deeper,
they're wanting to try new areas. So we're gonna just
(00:31):
I'm gonna go ahead and take some user questions, and
then I'm just going to go over seven eight different
points that I think can really help you as you
prepare for your upcoming L hunt this year. So the
first thing we're going to jump into, like I said,
user questions, I'm gonna go ahead and answer these. And
if you have any questions of your own for us
here at Cutting the Distance, either myself or our guests,
(00:53):
feel free to email us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls
dot com. We'll do our best to get those questions answered.
You can also message us on social media if that's easier. So,
the first question, what ELK sounds should I be able
to make and how good of a caller do I
need to be before I head into the woods in September. So,
(01:15):
in my opinion, you can go into the Elk woods
with just a I mean, you can count them on one hand.
I would say, first of all, you need to be
able to make a location bugle without getting too deep
into it. I would say, just any bugle. If you
can make a location bugle or a challenge bugle, or
one or the other.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
That's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I'll do a little bit to explain the difference between
a location bugle and a challenge bogle. So a location
bugle is typically a three note two to three no
very high note bugle, and it's not going to have
a lot of rasp to it. It's going to be
very clean, and I usually keep it about two to
three seconds so then I can hear to make sure
that a bull is going to respond.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So if we were.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
To describe a location bugle, it's two to three note,
very high. We're not adding a lot of void, We're
not adding the grould at the beginning. I'm just a
very clean note that's intended to travel very far, you know,
across the canyon down into a canyon. And I've always
said that if I know I'm doing it right, when
that high note is ear piercing, when it's kind of
(02:14):
rattling my own brain, when it's kind of getting to
my you know, it's a it's almost an obnoxious ring.
When we get that location bugle to that volume and
that pitch is really where it seems like we get
the best response from the elk. And to be honest,
that's the call that we're going to use. Probably you know,
over seventy five percent of time, three quarters, maybe even
(02:35):
up to ninety percent, is your walking ridges, as you're
walking trails, as you're in the woods. You're going to
just be using location bugles for the majority of the time.
If if I'm on maybe you know, warm sign or
I can smell elk or we've got fresh tracks, I
may locate with a cow call or a loud cow
call off of specific points, But most of the time
we're using location bugles as we walk by. Second, of all,
(02:56):
you need to be able to make just your typical
cow call, your your meal. Yeah, that's all we're doing.
You need to be able to make a clean cow call.
If you can do that, you can put a little
more pressure on the read, shorten it up, and get
your calf call not as important in my opinion, But
if you can have that cow call, you're gonna be
you know, able able to replicate that and use it
where needed. Third, uh, I use estros wines a lot,
(03:19):
and there we can argue all day amongst guys that
that you know the term, what each call is and
what his name should be. But in my opinion, and
estress wine is when a cow is is coming into estrus,
she needs a little more attention from her bowls. So
instead of the typical yeah, you know, our our typical
(03:39):
cow sound, that's gonna be wavy. So it's gonna go
high low, hilow, and we're gonna we're gonna use those
estress wines to then tell that bowl to come over here.
I need some attention, Come pay attention to me. So
I go on with an an estress wine, and then
I would say, like the fourth sound we need to
be able to do is do some sort of a
challenge bugle a little more aggression. It's got some of
(04:03):
that growl and throatiness in the beginning. You're gonna add
some voice back into it. You know, using your your throat,
your veil, you know, using that back of your throat
to really you know, add some of that growl and
real realism to the call. And then I also like
to be able to either add grunts or chuckles onto
(04:24):
the end of that bugle to add some realism. And
aside from that, that's really what you need to be
able to make those four sounds. So on the bugle side,
a location bugle, add a little bit of aggression and
in the grunt. And then on the cow side, if
we can go out with a good cow mew and
then like an estriss wine, we're gonna be we're gonna
be really really well off. And I would say we
(04:47):
we throw some other stuff in like screams, bark, chuckles,
you know, uh, estress buzzes.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
There.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
There's some other sounds that we will throw in that
we will make at certain times, but for the majority
of time they're not necessarily needed. And then we've answered
this a lot before, but how good of a color
do you need to be in? In my opinion, it's
much more important to know when to call and kind
of what to say and how to react to the
situation than it is on how good you are. Yes,
(05:15):
it's important. A lot of times we'll use mimicry as
some of our strategy. It makes a lot of sense
to be able to mimic that animal, and it takes
some skill to figure out or know what you need
to do to that diaphragm to be able to make
that sound.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So not as important of being a good caller.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
More important as knowing when and how to react the situation,
read it and know when you need to call, when
to add some intensity, when to move in some of
those things, And then it wasn't really in the question.
You can accomplish all of this either through diaphragms through
If you can't use that, you can use some of
our external cal calls like the easy s just the
(05:52):
easy sucker. If you can't run a diaphragm through just
a standard bigle tube or grunt tube, we've got the
easy biggler that will then also allow you to be
able to make those bagles. So there are a lot
of combinations you can use to be able to make
those four elk sounds that we talked about that I
just mentioned. You need to be able to be able
to make as you head out into the elk woods.
(06:13):
The second question, how do I decide where to go
elk cutting? So you know, we get these questions a
lot from people back east, even people around home that
have only ever hunted around home. They're just trying to
figure out where can you go? L count where are
their opportunities? And as cliche as it sounds, you have
to have you know, that elk tag. You have to
have the opportunity before you can go hunt these elk
(06:35):
and so the first way is through most of these
western states, even some of the Eastern states now that
are starting to get re established herds of elk is.
You'll have to have points for most states, with Idaho
and New Mexico being the exception. But they also don't
allow over the counter opportunities, so you have to make
sure to get into those draws. Idaho requires you to
one either jump into their I would call it their
(06:59):
waiting room lottery on December first, which has already passed us.
So you're not gonna be able to get that elk
tag for this year, but it's it's held pretty steady
that date for the last two years. And New Mexico
doesn't have points, so it's it's also already passed us.
But you also have to front the money for the
tag up front, so it detours a few people, I
(07:20):
would say, from applying. So those two states don't have points.
The rest of the states across the west have points.
So you're uh, your Nevada, your Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, everything
requires some points. Colorado does have a lot of over
the counter, which I'll also get to, but Colorado has points.
(07:41):
And then there are these states that don't have points.
So and it's it's it's this list is becoming smaller
and smaller as years ago on, as people implement systems,
as they add units to the systems. So and I
may be a little bit incorrect here, but but for
the I would say, for conversation's sake and the majority
of the opportunity, the states that you haven't over the
(08:03):
counter opportunity in right now are Washington, and that would
be west and east. But I would say when we
consider over the counter in Washington, they're mainly talking about
Roosevelt's West of the Cascades. There is some decent eastern
Washington opportunity, but you're going to be hunting spikes or
in units that maybe don't have high densities of elk.
You have the same inn organ where you now need
(08:24):
to apply, but you can do over the counter on
the west side. Colorado has a lot of over the
counter opportunities, and there are a few places in Utah
where there's some over the counter opportunities. But that's really
if you haven't been in the draws or don't have
a tag and you're wanting to get out this year,
you need to kind of focus your efforts on those
three states Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and that's how you're going
(08:47):
to have to find opportunity. Wyoming used to be a
place you could go hunt maybe every two years. Looking
at the dry out numbers this year, it looks like
at maybe four four and a half, maybe even five
points now just to hunt general in Wyoming. Fingers crossed
as a non resident that they don't implement the ninety
ten split there because I feel that we would bump
(09:08):
that number up just six seven eight years to draw
a Wyoming elk tag, and Wyoming is a special place
to elk hunt, really really enjoy it. But they're making
some changes to potentially get their residents additional tags, which
I can't fault them for but it would hurt me
as a non resident.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
So yeah, you either got to be in the point game.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
You got a few states you can do over the counter,
and that's you're going to have to figure out where
to get that tag.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So that you can go go on your hunt.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Would you recommend going with a guide for your first
elk hunt. I've always said the best way to learn
elk hunting is to go with someone who knows what
they're doing. You can cut years, five, ten, twenty years
off of what it may take to get to that
experience level if you go with somebody that's been there
before and teach you what to do and what not
(09:57):
to do. So you can learn by going with somebody
that knows or an outfitter or a guide. As long
as they're good and reputable, they will knock off the
learning curve and then you'll have that knowledge for the
rest of your life. So I can only voice my
opinion that if you've got the financial resources and the
ability to go with a guide for your first all cunt,
I think it's a great way to go about it.
(10:19):
If you're only wanting to go on maybe one l
cunt and you don't plan on going in the future,
it would still be a good idea to potentially go
with a guide or outfitter. The odds for success are
going to be drastically higher than if you were to
do it on your own. But on the contrary, there's
something special about if you were to go out do
it on your own research scout, which we're going to
(10:41):
get into here in the discussion. If you can put
some of these things together and do it on your own,
there's a lot more satisfaction potentially involved. Maybe you don't
care how you know how you kill an elk and
so it doesn't matter, And by all means, go with
a guide outfitter. Learn what they know and then you
can apply that for you know, all of your future
a cunts. So it's really just up to you your finances.
(11:03):
One thing I would highly recommend is vetting your guider outfitter.
Make sure they they're reputable, make sure they do things
the right way, make sure they hunt hard.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I don't dog on private land hunting, but an elk
with a guide an outfitter on private land where it's
gonna be a lot different than a guider outfitter that
takes in the mountains and you know, nothing's nothing's a gimme,
nothing's patterned. Maybe I say nothing's patterned. Nothing's patterned to
the point of a lot of private land hunts and
you're gonna have to hunt, You're gonna have to work,
You're gonna have to you know, and that's really where
(11:36):
you're gonna learn it and kind of start to gain
that knowledge base that will pay off year after years.
So that's that's my answer for those three questions. Once again,
you have questions of your own, feel free to email
us at CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com, or
hit us up on social media, send us a message,
and we'll try to plug these into the podcast. So
(12:06):
let's assume that we've we've got the tag going off
of that that listener question. You know, you got to
find the tag first. Let's assume you've got to tag.
What do you do Once you've got to tag? You
either confined to a unit, you're confined too at general areas.
You know, Montana's got some tags that are you know,
(12:26):
nine hundred series that are kind of scattered all over
the state. You've got Wyoming where you get a general
tag and you've got kind of checkerboarded units all across
the state you can hunt, you know, a Montana big game,
you can hunt a lot of units aside from the
selected units. So you really just have to figure out
now that you've got to tag, where are you gonna hunt?
Same with Oregon, Washington. You know you've got to You've
got an over the counter tag, You've got a lot
(12:47):
of units to choose from. How are you going to
zero in on a place to park your truck to
camp to go out after out? So one thing we're
gonna get into is looking at success. Uh. First thing
I do if I was a draw general tag is
start to go through you know, whether it's it's go hunt,
(13:09):
whether it's the fish and Wildlife website, brochures, harvest statistics,
any of that. I'm going to start there and look
at what I'm trying to accomplish. If you're just looking
to kill any legal cows and bowls, I would go
look at population densities, I would go look at hunter success.
(13:32):
I would also hunter success and one hundred days in
the field for success are two different things as well,
So you can start to look at that and if
if killing any elk is what your goal is, go
off of that, and then you're we're gonna talk about
some other things here. You're gonna want to vet that,
confirm it, and I'll give you some resources here in
(13:54):
a little bit. If you're if you're wanting to hunt
any bowl, maybe maybe your your goal wasn't to kill
a cow, but any bowl, you can then go start
to look at percent by you know, harvest bisex and
maybe maybe you don't care if it's a six plus
you know, six point plus bowl and you're just looking
at any bowl, then you can start to weed through
that information. If if I'm going to a unit that
(14:17):
has or or if I'm looking to harvest a bowl
that is, you know, six plus points are better, I'm
looking for something big, mature, I'm willing to then also
sacrifice hunter success and one hundred days in the field.
And like my main the my priority is on percent
of bulls that are taken out of the unit that
(14:38):
are six point or better. I typically want like lower
hunter numbers, So i want a unit that has big bulls,
doesn't have as many hunters, And I'm really trying to
look at at some of that to to figure out
what unit I'm going to hunt. And another thing that's
more I would say maybe is even specific to me.
There are some people that will go out there and
they don't really care what they're hunting or what type
(14:58):
of terrain they're hunting. U you know, whether it's flatlands,
whether it's rolling hills, whether it's blm. I coming from
Southwest Washington, where I grew up hunting in what I
would consider the jungle, you know, Devil's clubs in the
bottom ferns, brush just you know, kind of that rainforest setting.
When I leave Washington or or Western Washington, I don't
(15:21):
want to go into a brushole, you know. So I'm
going to avoid avoid North Idaho. I'm going to avoid
some of those places that are just thick and brushy.
I'm looking for something, you know, above tree line. I
want to get up in the mountains. I want to
have a mix of alpine and subalpine and then you know,
crick and river bottoms. So I'm also looking for something
that's maybe even completely separated from the elk or the
(15:43):
elk successes in that area. I'm looking for certain terrain
and certain areas and canyon country that I want to
hunt versus say, rolling hills, you know, or something like that. Now,
when I you know, I'm hunted New Mexico before, and
we are, we're in you know, rolling Juniper, and you
you adapt to it. You may work it's elk cunning.
I still love it. But for the most part, I'm
also trying to find a place that I just like
(16:06):
to be in. So we've looked at harvest statistics, I
then look at places I want to hunt, and that
kind of starts to zero me in, and then some
of these other points that I'm going to get into
will well.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Then further that.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
The first thing I do after that, I've kind of
zoned in on an area and it's going to be
called a biologist. But but I don't want to call
a biologist with an empty question how are the elk doing?
Where should I hunt? Because when you ask that question,
that biologist has given the same answer to everybody else
that calls for unit. I have a hard time believing
(17:02):
that that biologist is like, you know what, last time
I told somebody go to you know, Mountain A, and
this time I'm going to tell somebody to go to
Mountain B. And then the next color I'll tell to
go to Mountain c You're getting a very generic answer
of an area where he may know people harvest elk
and people have harvested in the past, and they don't
give you very good data. And they may not have
(17:24):
good data when you bring them specific spots, drainages or areas.
But at least you're starting to ask those questions and
you're not going to get the generic answer. So I
would like to pick up the phone and call the biologists,
get a little bit of understanding on like are these
elk migrating, when do they finish their migration up into
the high country, what does the herd health look like?
(17:45):
And then maybe some of these biologists are really good
in know their unit or a lot of times if
I give him areas they're not sure about, they'll give
me a call back, they'll do some research, ask around.
So I like to call a biologist just to get
a feel for it. It may not be the best information,
but at least it's it kind of adds to that
portfolio for your hunt.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You know, what are they all doing.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Maybe they've got good data on where you're at, Maybe
maybe they don't.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So I always call it. But I'll just get that
out of the way. I then.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Like to just kind of call the outfitters and I'm
upfront in the area if there is an outfitter or
a guide work in the area, like, hey, I drew
a tag for this unit, or I've got a tag
for this unit, or I've got a tag I'm thinking
about but going there, I'm just getting some information, you know,
not wanting to step on your toes. We're looking to
make sure we're not in the same area, you know,
because a lot of them even let you know what
where their camps are at, what drainages they're in, you know,
(18:37):
even on their websites and whatnot. So a lot of
times they don't want you to necessarily be in their
area anyway, so they will give you good advice on
maybe what drainage to try, what the pressure is like
in an area. They can, you know, they can give
you some of that information without really hurting their clients
hunts and whatnot. So I always like to call outfitters
(18:57):
or guides that are in the area just to kind
of see what they have. And sometimes they they'll give
you information. Sometimes they're tight lipped and they won't and
then I always take what they give me a little
bit with the grain of salt, because you never know
if they're trying to throw you off or send you
into a dead zone, any of that. So call the
outfitters in the area, figure out what's going on in
that area as far as heavy outfitter traffic, and then
(19:19):
I try to avoid that and hope that they give
me a good answer so I can avoid them as well.
I also like to call the owner of the property,
whether it's for a service, whether it's a BLM, whether
it's any of the following DNR and get their opinion
on the area, how busy it is, what they see
for rigs parked at gates or trailheads. What's my access
(19:42):
in there going to be like, because a lot of
times I can see roads and whatnot on on X
maybe they don't have a gate in the right spot,
or there's a lot of seasonal shutdowns where RMEF or
a game department has partnered with the owner and they
shut a gate on a certain date September First, this
gate shut well on the map, it looks like I
could have drove another five or six miles or whatnot.
(20:06):
So I like to call the owner of the property,
make sure that my access that I had planned on
getting to is going to be there, and then you know,
just just kind of run that by them. And then
once again, I'm I'm not necessarily scared of any traffic,
whether it's you know, driving for wheler, motorcycle, hiking, whatever
(20:28):
it may be. But I don't want to just be
in a very, very busy area. I'll take a moderate
to light area, but I don't want to throw myself
into an area that's just packed with people. So calling
the owner is great for that. I always E scout
and I'll do a lot of ES scouting, probably prior
to calling the biologists and the owner. I spend a
(20:48):
ton of time E scouting, and I will I'm looking
for the three things that Elk are gonna need. I'm
looking for cover, I'm looking for food, and I'm looking
for water, you know, and Elk.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Needs a drink.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It's very I may be saying something that's very obvious
for most people, but if you always tie everything back
to that, it's it's gonna it's gonna work better. So
you they can't they can't sustain, they can't be there
without one of those three. So I'm always looking for
where's their water source? So they're gonna be able to drop
to a creek. Do they got a pond, Do they
have wallows? Do they have benches?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Like? Where are they gonna get their water from?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
They need to have some ability to escape hunters, predators, danger, heat,
whatever it may be. In September, So I'm looking for
bedding areas. You know, I'm looking for stuff on the
north slope, I'm looking for shade. I'm looking for, you know,
spots where they can escape, be safe, not be seen.
And then I'm looking for a good food source. And
that that really depends on on where you're hunting. You know,
(21:52):
if you're in the high country of Colorado, all of
their food may be green grasses and green and shrubs
above tree line. If I'm hunting here in western Washington,
I'm looking for green, lush clearcuts where those elk are
gonna come feed and then they're gonna go back to
timber where that that example I used in Colorado, those
elk are going to go up above tree line and
then they're going to feed back down into the timber
(22:14):
or into their their bedding area and then uh, you know,
like that that escapement. The betting areas, you're looking for
big timber, you're looking for pockets. You know, ideally there's
a spring or water at that spot. Benches, but what
keep in mind that isn't always a telltale sign. I
just prefer benches in an area because it it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Guarantee, but it gives me a higher percentage. I know
where they're going to be betting.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
But we've seen elk bedded on fifty degree slopes and
they're just fine. They you know, they've kicked out above
a tree, they've got their betting there, So that that
that will also know they can bedding near anywhere. But
we're looking for for areas with with with all of
those features. And then one thing that I really like
to look for in a specific area is a good
(23:00):
set of ridges that connect. I work pretty inefficient if
I've got to drop off of a finger ridge across
a canyon to get on another one. So I really
like a high ridge line running through the area where
I can cover a lot of ground, or if I've
got a trail towards the top of that, so one
or the other, either I can walk the ridge fairly
easy without being cliffed out or cut off, or I
(23:21):
can walk a ridge trail that keeps me pretty high
in elevation. And I love to be able to call
down into that canyon, be able to reach above me,
and be able to cover that entire canyon with my
location bagle. So I'm looking for that more canyon country
where we can call across, we can glass across, which
(23:42):
is very very important for my elk cutting successes. I
want to also be able to glass, and that's where
I'm drawn to some of that alpine subalpine stuff where
we can get up, we can glass avalanche shoots above
tree line and really kind of set up our hunt
and I don't intend to get in to that, but
that's something I'm looking in an area glassing, good calling, and
(24:04):
then be able to cover a lot of ground. And
with those three things it starts to stack the odds
of success in my favor. And then now that we've
got all this, we've we've picked an area, we've called
the biologists, we've called the property owner, we've we've you know,
did all of this. The last thing that I do,
(24:25):
and it's a brief check. It's just trying to figure
out who has hunted it before and what their take
is and and in order to figure that out, I
will go a cruise forums. A lot of times it
will be, you know, jump on Google, you type in
you know, unit X, y Z and elk in Colorado,
(24:45):
and it will tell me, you know, a lot of
times there are a forum or or something that I've
talked about that, and I'll just go read like, what
you know, we're people not seeing elk. And I always
take that once again with the grain of salt, because
I don't know how good the elk hunter is on
the other side of the keyboard, you know, whoever type that,
But it just gives me a general consensus or a
(25:06):
lot of times you'll see a guy pop up or
you know, a couple of people like, oh, you weren't
in the wrong spot, or you did it wrong, or
you didn't hunt the right spots, and it just starts
to let me know, like, all right, it's obvious that
maybe the densities are in different locations in this unit
are vastly different. So it just starts to let me know, like,
all right, I'm going to need to find spots. A
lot of times people will talk about specific areas they
(25:27):
went into and it was really really busy er lots
and lots of rigs, or they take a picture of
a of a trailhead and I start to use that
data to really hone in is my idea good or
do I need to go back to the drawing board
kind of redo everything we just talked about. Pick a
new area, pick a new you know, go back, call
a billo, just called up the property owner and kind
of go through that until the forums or social media.
(25:51):
You know, you can chearch Facebook for the same thing.
You know, units I go to YouTube see if anybody's
hunted it on video to get an idea, and then
if all this go, you know, I like to look
at the best looking spots. But then the other thing
in the back of my mind, which we've talked about,
is the difficulty of getting there. If it's right off
the road, it's probably gonna be busy. If it's one
(26:13):
to two miles in, you're probably still gonna have fifty
sixty percent of the guys in there. Once you start
to get three to four miles off the road, I'm
starting to be by myself. And then you kind of
catch back up with the horse hunters. Around seven or eight,
So I like to really plan my el hunts. Three
to eight miles from anything seems to be kind of
that sweet spot. It's it's still close enough to the truck.
(26:34):
We can get it out and a couple, you know,
a couple of packouts. But that's what I'm looking for.
And so you'll do these iterations until you go back
to the forum social media maybe. And I actually like
when somebody doesn't talk about the area that I'm in
or that I've picked with any unit, but if they
are talking highly of an area, I try to see
(26:55):
how many similarities are in between the area I picked
and the one that they're talking highly about, Like, all right,
do these trains is that going to make my spot?
Does it have all the same things, the same facing,
aspect slopes, whatever it may be, And kind of put
that all together to see if it's going to work out.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So we did all of this. We got a solid plan.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I know some of us like it's very difficult to
get out and scout all of these places, but nothing
is going to replace your boots on the ground. So
you've did all this. If you can, by any means
get out there and go improof this prior to season,
and when you're out there some of the things that
(27:37):
I like to look for the best telltale sign because
it depending on what time you get there. You go
out in July, that gives a whole lot of time.
That gives sixty, you know, anywhere from thirty to sixty
days for those elk to change their pattern, and the
greater distance between your scouting and your return, the greater
the distance of those elk could be. I'm not saying
(27:59):
it will be, but just remember if you were sixty
to you know, I would be very nervous scouting in
the in the first of July and coming back in September.
Especially the more mountainous elk that are that are doing
some migrating, the more nervous I would be going back.
Those cows are gonna move, those bulls are gonna move,
and so the closer you can get I would be
(28:20):
much much more confident. Of course, it's this is going
to be, you know, very obvious. I'd be much more
confident in my scouting the last week of August for
an archery l hunt than I would the first of July.
Things are just gonna move, and so take that with
a grain of salt, you know, or just take that
with a consideration as you do that. When I'm out
there scouting, uh anytime prior to season, one of the
(28:43):
most important things I look for is rubs that lets
me know in some way, shape or form that elk
were there during the rut. And I'm looking for concentration
in rubs, like how much time did they spend there,
was this a lone bowl, you know, traveling through the mountains,
or was this obviously an area a betting area, you know,
And if you can put the rubs together with the
(29:05):
betting area, you've kind of got the the problem solved
at that point. You know where they're going to bed,
you know, they've got a lot of rubs around that.
Because when you're out there, a lot of people want
to see elk. They want to see tracks, they want
to see you know, scot they want to see all
this stuff on the ground. But guess what, that's where
the elk are at, right then if you can find
(29:26):
rubs that kind of guarantees me they're there somewhere in
September early October, and that's where they like to run.
So that's my That's the number one thing I'm looking
for out there. When I'm scouting, I don't really care
if I see elk. I don't you know, it's always nice.
I don't care if I see tracks any of that.
Number one sign I'm looking for is rubs. And when
I find that, I then start to look kind of
scout around there, like from here, where are they getting
(29:48):
their food? If they're going to bed here, they've got
rubs here where they get in their food, where they
get in their water. And you try to put that little,
you know, mini puzzle together now that you've really because
we've already dialed down from having a tag. We then
selected unit. We then selected an area within the unit,
and now we're down to like that macro of they
they're they're betting they're eating their their feeding there, they're
(30:09):
right here. Put that together is going to help you
kind of figure those out. One thing to remember is
if you are late mid mid August, late August, and
you feel like those cows are kind of done moving
as far as their location, remember whatever bulls you've seen,
or if you haven't seen any bulls, the majority of
the time those bulls will go join up with the cows,
(30:31):
So don't necessarily concentrate on where you've seen the bulls
eating up the season, contrant on where the cows are at,
and start your hunt there. Or the other thing that
could happen is they might not be in either location.
They may go to a spot where they are left
alone during that breeding season, and it may be different
than both of those places. But I'd always focus on
cows first and then branch out from there to to
(30:53):
kind of finish finding where they're at. I'm going to
cover a few pieces of gear, and I'm not the
authority on getting in shape. I've always just said I'm
I'm too hard headed to ever quit, and I've been
doing this for twenty five years in the mountains and
know what shape I need to be in. But if
you're coming out west, or you're going to a new area,
(31:15):
or you're coming from the lowlands, the first thing you
need to do is get in shape for elk hunting.
It's not even a meal deer hunt. There's a lot
more added in. There's a lot more meat to carry out.
You know, you can hunt meal deer just as far,
if not further from the road than elk. But once
you got one down, it's a whole different ballgame, especially
if you're not hunting with a hunting partner or a group.
(31:36):
I would venture to guess the majority of people are
going to need to take at least four packouts, if
not more, and that's going to be a pretty hefty load. So,
you know, get in shape whatever means that that is.
And this is where the scouting really pays off. Or
a mountain near you just go test yourself. Can I
do two thousand feet of elevation gain over four miles?
Can I do two thousand foot elevation gain over two miles?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
You know? How long does it take?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Me?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Am? I? You know? And and just work at it,
you know. And there's there's a.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Lot of ways to do this and I'm I'm not
gonna get into them. You know, you can be a
long distance runner, your cardio is going to be great,
you can do CrossFit, you can whatever it may be.
Get your feet in shape, which we're going to talk
about boots here in a little bit. I can't stress
out enough we talk about shape as in muscular and
cardio fitness. I've had I've seen I'd say i've had
(32:28):
I've seen more people fall apart on a hunt because
of their feet than I have because of you know,
maybe their cardio or or their you know, physical physical condition.
So get your feet in shape, you know, be able
to pack eighty to ninety pounds over long distances or
over short distances, and you really need to kind of
(32:50):
gauge where you can kill an elk. It's easy to
walk two or three miles through country when it's only
you and your backpack. It's a lot different feet when
you're doing it with eighty or ninety pounds on your back,
and you know you've got to do it two, three,
four more times, depending on how many people are helping
you pack. So I'm going to diverge a little bit,
but getting the absolute best shape possible it's gonna make
(33:12):
the hunt more enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
It's gonna let you hunt.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Farther and harder, and then uh just be able to
get the animal out from from that location. Talked about
getting your feet in shape, getting into the right pair
of boots, and having boots that are ready for western
hunting or elk hunting. And I'm not talking about your
your lowland you know, your elk hunts that are down
(33:35):
around you know, private lowland BLM. Whatever I mean there's
deep private out there, so don't don't necessarily take that
out of cont you know, out of what I'm saying,
But you know, there there are different boots aren't as
near as important on a lowland hunter, front country hunt.
You get up in the mountains, you know, and you're
you're half mile mile.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Off the road.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Things get things can get pretty pretty brutal, and you're
going you're gonna want to have boots that are that
are kind of up to the task, one that fits
your feet very well, one that are comfortable, one that
you can walk six seven, eight, ten, twelve. You know, however,
many miles in that don't necessarily give you hot spots.
And so getting your boots broken prior to the hunt,
knowing that they're the right boot for you to you know,
(34:13):
climb straight up a mountain, the right boot to walk
on a flat trail for you know, miles after you know,
mile after mile.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Make sure you got your boots dialed in.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
And because it is, you know much as it may
just make sense, or maybe you just have tough feet
and it doesn't matter. When your feet fall apart, your
hunt kind of falls apart. So make sure you got
the right boots on that are that are you know,
that are right for the hunt. And then last thing
is maybe different than other hunts, is have a pack
(34:44):
that's able to carry a decent load out on the
first trip. Once I said, we're we're we're kind of
taxing ourselves. We're pushing ourselves a limit. And the last
thing you want to do is is to kill an elk,
break it down and not be able to take out
a decent amount of weight or a quarter or whatever
it may be on that first load. You want to
(35:05):
be as efficient as possible. We're gonna be war out,
we're gonna get tired, so make sure you have a
pack that's able to haul heavy loads. Have a pack
that you know you can you know, haul the heavy
load plus all of your gear that's on you at
the time, and it's gonna that's gonna be able to
withstand and be durable enough to make trip after trip
after trip. So that's kind of uh, you know, those
(35:28):
those are just a few key items you know you
when it comes to elk cunting.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I think boots and.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Packs are are very important needed to make sure that
you've got those dialed. But yeah, this is kind of
the wrap on on getting ready and planning for your
ILK cunt. Make sure you're you're stacking the odds in
your favor, You're you're in a good area, You've got
the right equipment, you're in shape, and you're ready to
go out and uh kind of tackle this area. And
(35:54):
in part two we're going to kind of expand on this.
Now that we've got an area, where are we going
when we get there? I said, where were going? When
we get there? How am I going to quickly break
the area down? Proof what we've put together on what
we've talked about. We make sure this area is gonna
hold the elk they are there, how you're gonna hunt it,
(36:14):
and then put together some put together some plans on
how you're gonna attack the unit. So I really appreciate
you guys listening. This was kind of my planning for
an elk count episode. And catch us on part two
of this episode on cutting the distance where I'm gonna
break down once you get there, proofing all this and
putting a plan together and then some strategy
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