August 3, 2023 • 48 mins
Ever wondered what it's like to archery elk hunt in New Mexico? Jason introduces new co-host Dirk "The Bugler" Durham on this week's show and the guys talk at length about how quirky the elk rut can really be, even in the famed state of New Mexico. Be sure to follow up and get your eyes on Dirk's "New Mexico Bulls" film, which he discusses in this episode. It's out on the Phelps Game Calls channel of The MeatEater network now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today, I'm joined by
Dirk Durham, better known as the Bugler. He's been the
Phelps Game Calls marketing manager for three plus years. We've
been working with him for five plus years. He does
more than just marketing, though he's marketing, he's kind of
our community manager. Great Elk color, great Elk Hunter. Proud
to call him a buddy. But God Dirk here, except
(00:33):
for his roles are changing. Sad to see him go
as the Phelps marketing guy. But he's gonna be transitioning
into a content creator for the Meat Eater content team.
But it's still gonna have a very heavy focus on
Phelps Game Calls brand and making sure that that's you know,
we've got good quality content. And another exciting announcement is
part of this new position is you're gonna be the
(00:54):
co host of Cutting the Distance. So the way it's
gonna work, I'll have an episode every other week, Dirk
will have episode in between those, and so I we're
excited to be bringing twice as many Cutting Distance episodes
to all of you. So with that said, I'm now
going to take the guest seat and Derek is gonna
host cutting the distance here.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Oh hey, there, I got some big shoes to fill.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, well only only literally because the size fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
That's what I meant, your size fourteen. I'm eleven and
a half wide. Yeah, wide shoes. How many people do
you know that has to wear a wide?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Shoot? Not me. I got fourteen's but they're normal.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well well I'm one of them, so I just found out.
But anyway, Yeah, man, I'm happy to be here, super excited,
uh taking on this new role. If I didn't have
a dream job before, I feel like this is even
more of a dream job. So I don't know all
the details yet. This is kind of a rapidly moving
transition change. But everything that that's kind of been set
(02:00):
forth seems to be pretty pretty awesome. Seah, it should
be pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I'm a little jealous of your your duties, your position,
but I mean, don't, don't get me wrong. There's a
lot of work there, a lot of I mean editing
is sometimes painstaking, and you know, planning all of our
content and travel to the shoots and whatnot. But it
seems to be pretty dang cool.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, especially if I have to edit like a mule
deer film, Right, if it was an Elk film, it'd
be exciting, but Mule Deer is like watching pain trying
not to.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Put him asleep. Is it should be good. I'm excited
because I know my strengths and weaknesses on a podcast
like very. I mean, anybody listens to Cutting the Distance tactical, technical,
and Dirk brings a different level of excitement, So I
think it'll be a great compare contrast. We'll have similar ideas,
but then you're gonna get you know, more entertainment from
(02:46):
Dirk and more technical for me probably. So I'm excited
to see the podcast evolve into a little bit of
a you know, Jacqueline Hyde or whatever you want to
call it. Just pretty contrasting I think from week to week,
and it'll be a good mix up.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, I'll have a lot of on my own podcast,
but really I would. My goal is I really want
to continue to like touch base with you and do
some collab podcast too, because number one, I like to
give you a hard time in front of everybody. Thanks,
I appreciate it, take you out of your comfort zone
a little bit, make funn of you know, kind of
what I do best. But those are the things that
(03:19):
we both love and everybody else does so so but
that's the reason why I'm over here, you know, to
cut this podcast with you. And then also spoiler alert,
we may or may not be working on some new
cool stuff for a Bugle Tube. But you know film
and Jason, you know, he dressed up like a nerd
tried to, you know, explain, explain what is airflow and
(03:42):
what not to the lay person, you know, dummies like me.
So I don't know. I just kind of glossed over
and just kept running the camera while you were talking.
But I tried not to laugh because you're the nerd
glasses you're Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, That's why I love when Dirk has a great idea.
Is it involves me dressing up into something that uncomfortable
for me, talking in a voice that's uncomfortable for me,
and then trying to get through what I have to
But no, I think it's it's good. We'll more more
to come later, but we're working on a YouTube that
we hope to have out pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, I'll talk about it. Hey, And as always, if
you guys have listener questions, you can email those two
c t D at phelps Calls dot com. And then
I want to do something really cool where I have
listeners call in. We're gonna get a phone number set
up here real soon, but I want listeners to call
(04:33):
in if they have a question, call in, leave a message.
I won't probably pick up the phone, you know, especially
if you call it two in the morning, Hello, but
call in with your question. I will play your question
on the air, and then I will do my best
to answer it. So I think that that would be
really fun and in a better way to kind of
get your question across. But if you don't feel like
(04:55):
call in and feel weird about leaving a message, then
by all means, please please send an email. Because I
feel like there's lots of questions out there that sometimes,
you know, being experienced hunters, we kind of take for granted.
But but if you're a new hunter, or maybe you're
experience hunter but you're seeing something weird every year you're
just like, hey, I just hey, you got any you
any feedback on this, then we'd love to hear those
(05:15):
kind of questions.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's tough at times to to, you know,
think about everything that we think about out in the woods. Right,
sometimes it just kind of comes natural and we don't
think about it, but some of you out there may
you still have questions on and it's always great for me,
Like I love any question at any level because it
gets me to think, It gets me to like boil back,
you know, situations that I've had to think about that
(05:38):
and yeah, every any question, every question will be accepted
and where we're excited to get those from you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, And it's so weird. Sometimes folks will ask me
a question and immediately I'm just like, I don't know
what I why I do what I do, And so
it takes it kind of a minute to kind of
mull it over sometimes to like break down that process
in my head, because you know, once you've you've hunted
for a long time, sometimes you just kind of go
with your gut real quick and you don't even think
(06:05):
about the real the real reason why you do something
until somebody actually asked that question and it really breaks
it down. And so so those questions are great. So
some of the stuff, like you said, that we don't
even think about. It's great to get those questions and
then have us you know, break it down and and
make it to some usable some usable content. Well hopefully
I don't know you'll be thinking that anyway. I kind
(06:39):
of want to talk about elk season plans a little bit,
you know, it seems like that's part of the fun
of elk hunting is and in any kind of deer
and deer hunting and any kind of hunting is making
your plans to go. And I always look forward to
the plans, like, Okay, where are we gonna apply for tags? Okay,
now I got my tag. Now scout, you know, HIT
(07:00):
and E scouting, and that's super fun, you know, getting
on on on your on your computer and doing all
your scouting and then you know, talking to your buddies
and making plans. So, Phelps, where did you get an
elk tag? Did you get like a bunch of elk tags?
Or like you got one elk tag? What do you got?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So your beautiful state of Idaho decided to keep me
locked out? I don't know if if you set that up,
if you have when this, when this Jason Phelps guy
gets on here, make sure he doesn't get in the
waiting room.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So I've been listening to my emails like don't let
Phelps get attacked, right, hope we got too many non residents.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So I didn't get Idaho kind of was like, oh,
this is fucking real bleak, right, And I ended up
in Colorado really didn't. You know, some of the points
game is is all random luck. I didn't feel like
quite burning Utah Colorado points and so I'm like, dang,
what am I gonna do? So uh, I had an
(07:54):
opportunity again to get an organ tag, so I was
able to gather that one up. And sometimes good decisions
come because they're forced. You know, the last few years,
I've been very fortunate, blessed to have multiple tags and
multiple states across the West, which is a blessing and
a curse. Right, You can't you spend six seven, eight
(08:19):
days traveling between these hunts, which is in my opinion,
We've said it time and time again. Time on the
ground is the most important thing to find in success. Well,
I'm losing two three days between each hunt trying to
get there, figure things out, change crews, move around. So
this year, only having one tag in my pocket, I'm like,
this is actually maybe a better thing. Let's just focus
(08:39):
on that tag all September. So I've got an Oregon
ELK tag. I plan to be there for twenty plus
days or whatever it takes, or shoot, maybe get it
done in a day or two. You just never know.
But on the on the schedule, I plan to be there,
you know, between twenty day eighteen to twenty days, and
then put all of my energy and effort into that tag.
And the other thing that I've by dancing all over
(09:01):
the country is sometimes we show up in new units
and you just start getting comfortable on day three, four five.
You know, it takes us a while to figure out
these ELK and where they want to go and and
just the general general patterns and whatnot, and you have
to take off. So I'm excited to just go finding out,
you know, go find ELK, sit on them, learn them,
(09:22):
figure out what's going on in an area, start to
take all those details. So yeah, and then I'm gonna
I gotta just gonna hunt. I haven't hunted my home
state of Washington for ELK. Not we should back up.
I did draw special tag last year in Washington, so
I did hunt at Washington ELK, but I haven't hunted
over the counter ELK in Washington since twenty thirteen. So
(09:43):
I'm gonna come back with a muzzleoader. It's been a
ten year break, So as confident as I'd like to be.
It is western Washington elk hunting, and it's gonna be
a tough one there. There's no guarantees in western Washington,
so it'd be a good challenge. But it'll be nice
to be able to hunt, hunt from home and hunt
some old, familiar grounds and see if I can still
figure out how to kill a raghorn around here.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, that's awesome to be able to hunt some of
that old ground. It's it's like, oh, you're kind of
rekindle an old love or something. It's, oh, man, I
love this this little viewpoint here. Oh I bet there's
some milk down in this little basin or whatever. And
then then then you don't hear anything and you get heartbroken.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Again, or or you remember how much you love the
Devil's Club in the bottom of this canyon and you
have the BlackBerry briars in this cant Yeah, it's uh. Now,
I I do a lot of hunting because of the
brush and the understory nowadays coming from Usterer Wasing like
I grew up just in a jungle, and so yeah,
I won't I won't necessarily enjoy that coming home but yeah,
we'll be fun to come back and go explore the
(10:44):
haunts that used to hold Elk all the time and
see what's still around.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, And to your point back to having that one
September tag is like you said, you know, you lose
a lot of time to travel into but you know,
if you haven't had two or three Elk tags in
your pocket each fall and you try to hit you
try to hit timing just right. There's there's been times
where you go to a unit and uh, there's Elk there,
(11:07):
but they're just not talking, or they're talking but they're
not coming to calls. I mean, every stage of the rut.
Every every day is a little different.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Man.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
If you're not there in the right days, in the timeframe,
you can have a really tough hunt, you know, or
maybe it's inclement weather. You know it's hot and dry,
and you know the day you leave it starts raining
a little bit and things get freshened up and bam,
elkor on fires. So that's that's tough.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah. And so by being in one place, you can
take advantages of the highs and lows. But you versus
you may miss you may be in a low the
entire time. If you only have six or seven days
in an area and we've all been there where it's
like just even the same unit, is this the same Elka?
You know, it's like somebody just flip the light switch
on that morning and it's nuts, versus you've been hunting
it for ten days prior to that and just been lackluster.
(11:53):
So I'm excited to be able to catch that. The
other big change in Oregon this year is they've always
started the I'm gonna probably get this wrong, but it's
it'll be mostly right. Like the last Saturday in August
was always their start or some some form of that.
They always would start that season in late August, but
typically the Oregon seasons would close up twenty first twenty second.
This year they moved that ahead a week, so it
(12:13):
will now I'll be able to hunt into the very
end of September, which I'm excited about because I'm one
of those guys that really likes the peak of the rut.
I don't necessarily need to be like, well, you might
have more success on the front end or the back end,
like I want bulls biegel and ripping their heads off
more so than what my percentages of killing them, and
I've always had great success, you know, from the thirteenth on.
So it's like I'd rather just be in that more
(12:36):
peak of the rut than outside of it.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, even if you know, let's say the bulls are
cowed up and they're not coming to calls real good,
it's still just fun. You know you're doing it, you're out,
you're out participating in the rut, right, Whereas if they're
not talking at all, you're just like, oh my god,
does this will even work anymore? I don't know what
I'm doing. It's not a fun hunt compared to like,
at least if you get to see them interact and
(12:59):
interact with them, that's a lot funner.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I've never twenty nineteen Idaho hot as heck. Everything was
dry up top, and I had never been more defeated
on an elk hunt than that one, because we were
looking at bulls every day. There's a bowl, there's a
herd in that canyon, and you'd be glad them nothing.
You'd walk up the there's elk, you'd be agle at
(13:22):
them nothing. I'm like, there's nothing more defeating before you start,
Like these are the ones I can see they're not
making a peep, Like I don't even know if I'm
buggling to like big Timber, and it was just like
you're just you're worthless out there, like if they're not
gonna bugle, Yeah, we can go stalk, you know, spot
and stalk these elk because we know they're there and
nothing else is talking. But it's just really defeating to
So yeah, I'd much give me bugling bulls all day,
(13:44):
and I'll take that over, you know, maybe more elk
or elk that aren't bugling.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah. Yeah, Well like last year in New Mexico, for instance,
we we had the opportunity to hunt the same unit,
but you were we were hunting two different seasons. You
were for season, I was second season, and you kind
of saw a little different different performance of the rat
than I did. Talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, So when we showed up and we actually even
have better or more data than that because me and
Maranella got to hunt the unit the year be prior,
so we got these and me and Steve hunted first season.
You ANDed second season. But within that first season, it's
a fifteen day season, so me and Steve hunted the
last six days me and col hunted the first seven
days or whatever it was, and it was it was
(14:32):
a lot different. And there were still elk there. Don't
get me wrong, there were elk, but you could tell
that they weren't quite settled into where they wanted to be.
For September, we were watching, you know, the same bowls
days apart. One time one would have cows, one times
he wouldn't, one time he would have a few cows,
and you could just like tell that the pecking order
(14:52):
was being established and these bulls really didn't want to
play the game the way we wanted to. But the
year before, I'm like, man, we ran the same system,
did the same thing like we normally did, and we
had bulls, you know, these big bulls just going crazy
coming into calls. Last year was very You almost felt
like you were walking on eggshells in the in the
mountains with the call in your mouth. Right, you were
(15:13):
just as much as we always preached the hammer at them,
locate them, move in aggressively. You were like, this isn't
working right. You knew on day one or two you
tried to run that system and things were going the
other way, and you didn't get winded so it was
just very you had to play very reserved and very
similar to the Idaho scenario. I was just talking about
(15:34):
where you knew they were out There were elk everywhere.
You get up in the morning, elk feeding out above.
But you move in tight, try cow calls, nothing, try,
you know, you just couldn't work these bulls. And I
think it had to do with the timing. They just
weren't receptive to kind of some of those systems. But yet,
so the other question in my mind is like, well,
you know, if your your buggling is not working, let's
(15:55):
go run caw calls, let's let's change. But it wasn't working.
I think we were in this time where they had
they were, you know, breaking down the hierarchy, they were
establishing herds, they were going through this process and they
didn't really care about this cow elk that they couldn't see.
And so I almost felt helpless. There was nothing we
could do to really get things going very well. Multiple
(16:16):
call ins where things would kind of half ass commit
and then they would lose interest halfway on a call in,
where before you could almost hang your hat on this
cal and like all this bulls committed, you know, you
can see it when they break and you know, they
might have to go into a little rise or and
you're like, where did that go? But just a lot
different than when you were there just the ten days
(16:36):
after we left.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Right, And then you say, the bulls that you've seen
with the cows were like younger bulls, like younger five points,
like two and a half three and a half year
old bulls.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, for the most part, as we got like we're
hunting the first of the eighth or something like that.
Early in the hunt, there were a lot of small bulls,
and the bigger bulls seemed to be running, you know,
by themselves, kind of checking on these herds, checking these cows,
you know, doing what they do prior to you know,
estris or whatever they're waiting on. They leave those younger,
(17:10):
more immature bulls to run the herds and they just
kind of spot checking. Then towards the end you started
to see the bigger bulls picking up cows, you know,
or groups of cows, smaller groups. I think it was
it was just timing. We were ahead, right for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So then fast forward to whenever Dusty and I showed up,
it was a little it was quite a bit different scenario.
You know. There were the bulls were very vocal, big
bulls now are taking cows, but those those younger bulls
were kind of, you know, playing the Satellite Bowl.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Role.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And it was it was still like with those bulls
being cowed up so much, they seem to kind of
still want to want to keep those cows. So you
start calling to them and they're like, yeah, I don't
think so. Then they'd move off, and they'd move off,
and it seemed like they were moving over to an
area away from where we were at. Like it almost
(18:04):
seemed like all the elk where I was hunting was
kind of moving over to this other area, you know.
And I don't know we should even say it, but
it was right next to this we're hunting, the kind
of a line of a border line of another unit.
So they were moving over into their their running mecca,
which was on the other side of the line. Though,
So we're kind of like you're helpless. You're like standing
(18:25):
at the fence line, which is the border. You're like, man,
I wish I could go over there. Yeah, I mean
you could like just over the rise. I could just
hear chaos. It sounded like something off off of some
of those old old Primos videos, you know, just just
twenty five different bulls screaming their guts out. Oh my god,
I wish I could even see into it, just to
witness what's going on over there. But it seemed like
(18:47):
every day we got like less elk on my side,
and they were moving into that other unit, and we
were just about ready to like, Okay, we're gonna completely
move in the unit because the unit is fairly good size.
We're gonna move areas here. But on the third day
then and it was the same thing, like if I
bugled a lot, it seemed like we're gonna, we're gonna leave,
(19:07):
you know that the big bulls would move off, and
then the satellite bulls they didn't seem to be want
want much confrontation, but uh, the satellite bulls weren't super
super vocal. Though. It seemed like the big bulls googled more,
and then the satellites would kind of come in quiet.
So I started kind of start doing some cow and
calf calls, and uh, we're just about ready to leave
(19:31):
this area. I'm like, you know what, Dusty, let's uh,
let's wrap it up here. Let's hike back to the truck.
Let's grab our camp and we're gonna just move move
our camp. I like to I like to kind of
travel light, you know, I don't set up a big laborcat.
Let's move our camp over the other part of the
unit and try it over there. And but there was
this one bull. They just kept on like Laney sounded
like he was laying's bed and he did this really
crappy moany bugle. He sounded like a moo cow. And
(19:53):
there was a bunch of moo cows in the area too,
you know, moving around like that stupid thing sounds like
beef cow moving in its bed over there. But it's
an elk. So I'm like, let's go. It's on the
way to the truck. Let's go on the way to
the truck. Let's go over there and just kill that
bowl and we'll just go home. Yeah, you know, I
kind of said that, you know, kind of being funny,
like there's no way in heck we're going to kill
(20:15):
this bowl. But anyway, we get over there, super super
close and get danger close, like I thought, Okay, if
I take one more step, this bowl is going to
see us or detect us. So that's how close we
want to get. So I stopped and I let out
the most quiet little calf call you've ever heard, and
(20:36):
the bowl answers, and I'm like, and I can see movement,
and we're like sixty eighty yards from this bowl. I
can see antlers through the trees. He's laying there, and
I gave a few more and he stands up, and
then over the next five ten minutes, he just kind
of slowly feeds over to us, and they'd give this
real weird moany move out bugle every little better. It
(20:58):
was a well you'll be able to watch the video.
The video is gonna drop here pretty soon. But anyway,
came over, came in close enough I was able to
shoot him, you know. And I don't want to give
too much away, but anyway, it was an interesting It
was a definitely an interesting hunt from what Phelps had described.
And then the biggest, the biggest, the biggest grind I
(21:19):
actually have with New Mexico and Jason Phelps is that's
dirty sucker didn't tell me about chiggers. Like like, on
day two, I woke up and I've got this weird
rash all over the inside of my elbow? Is that
like the ween No, the weennus is the actually the
loose skin on your elbow. This is like the the
elbow inside your your elbow pit. I was like, oh
(21:44):
my god, a spider must have just ate me up
last night. So I'm like checking my sleeping bag for spiders.
I'm checking the dent for spiders, and I'm like, Dusty,
look at these spider bites, and and that the next morning,
the third day, i wake up and I've got him
on both side and then up on my chest. I'm like,
what is going on? And then we get this elk killed.
(22:06):
And then we're driving home and as we drive, they're
getting worse, like we hadn't showered, of course, and I'm like,
it looks like somebody shot me with bird shot. I've
got him so bad. I'm like, oh my god. And
they itch so bad. And it was a different kind
of itch that I'd ever experienced. It was like it
was like a mosquito bite times one hundred, and you
couldn't quit itching, and every time you'd itch, it was
(22:27):
so satisfying the way it felt, but then it made
it itch more. Yeah, it was horrible, and I was
like Phelps and I sent him a picture. I'm like,
what's something something got me? And he's like, oh, yeah,
those are chiggers. I'm like what to.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
The best of my knowledge, because the year before me
and Steve both got lit up and then I forgot
to tell you just ten days prior to you being there.
Cow got it worse than anybody I'd ever seen, Like
along your belt line, your armpits, neckline, like they anywhere
they could just get in and there they hurt. It's
it's weird, like centerpoint feels like there's some sort of
(23:01):
stinger or something. You still so when you itch him
it actually hurts a little bit. Yeah, they're they're nasty
to the best. If you know what they are, let
us know about it. So the best of what we
could check is they were like some sort of tigger
on steroids.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Well, when we got home, Dusty took a piece of tape.
He started reading about it and he's like, okay, he
thinks they could be tiggers. And so he got a
piece of like duct tape and put on one of
the bites and then peeled it off. And then he's
got a he's got a microscope, right, you guys are
probably hit it off real good. You just get a
nerd out about you know, nerd stuff. It's science, yeah,
basically science. You could probably explain it, but we wouldn't
(23:35):
understand it. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it.
But so he looks at it through a microscope and
then takes a picture and sends it to me, and literally,
it's a it's a tigger. It's like just like the
picture online. And they're nasty, like they burrow in. They
don't they lay eggs or something.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
That little thing grows and you have basically fists on
you until it's ready to get gone. Yeah, and then
they weep out. It's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, it was. It was horrible. I like literally I
and I was a dusty didn't get it as bad
as I did. I think my my body makeup, you know,
fat guy. They I got a lot of a lot
of good stuff coming through my pores evidently, you know,
if Krispy Kreme don't at Greece, I don't know what else.
But they loved me and to literally two months later,
I was still scratching them things like a crackhead. I mean,
(24:21):
it was, it was bad.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, I did want to rewind just a little bit
since we did have that first experience, you know, me
(24:43):
not being able to make hardly any calls, you not
necessarily being able to make aggressive beagles. But like when
me and Steve were there, we were actually there before
you in this maybe just to lay out that you
can expect different things on different years in the same spots.
We were there five six days ahead of you, and
it was really good because I had pre scout prior
to Steve and the team getting there. We could not
(25:04):
not make the right call. I could get tight Bugle,
I could get tight calcol and we had bulls just
like running the ret Fest, you know, five hundred. It's
like it's like they were on a poker run. They
needed to come check out this bowl. They need to
go check out that bowl. And every bowl was like
making this crazy loop and it was like nothing I
had ever seen before. So yeah, it's just weird from
(25:25):
you know, three three different trips of the same unit
anywhere from about fifteen sixteen days apart, and the elk
acted completely different at different times.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, And you know, honestly, if you if you hunt
elk for very long, you kind of you notice that,
like it's not every year. You know, every year's not
a ten. There's a lot of fives out there, you know,
and every day is not a ten. Definitely within you
you're alloted time, you know, whether you're a weekend warrior
in it, which you know I used to do that
a lot back in the day, or you know, if
(25:56):
it's five ten days whatever, you got to hunt in
year to year. Just there's some years just line up
good and they hit and some some they don't. And
I think that's year to year. The ruts ruts more
intense or less intense in certain areas. I mean, you
look at New Mexico when we hunted before in another area.
You know, we hunted there two years in a row,
and it was it was a little lackluster until that
(26:18):
one day and it was like the flip of a
switch man and big nasty bugles. If I if I
blew a big nasty bugle, man, it really got the
bulls going. You know, they didn't care about cow calls.
Whereas you know the next year when we went there
with lampers, then, man, I don't know that I ever got.
(26:39):
I had one day that was maybe half as good
as the previous year, but we still didn't go with
those big rut fests that that we loved. But in
the area had hardly any cows. So if there's hardly
any cows in my mind, and there are quite a
bit of bulls, like the bull crowd ratio is pretty
tight in my mind, like blow a cow call and
them things are gonna beat your door down. But they
didn't really care about cow calls much either. There. It's
(27:01):
just I don't know. I think there's a lot that
go along with the timing and all. You know, we
don't know what happened the first season. We weren't there
the first season. Maybe they were running around like crazy,
you know, coming to bugles and cow calls.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And they're I mean, you hunted that flat country quite
a bit. I just feel like that other area that
we hunted first was they were just more nomadic, right,
There was no pattern to them. Those elk may have
came from three miles away and joined up, or it
just seemed like lots of movement. It wasn't so much
like local elk. And yeah, it was like one day
on fire, one day nothing. It was just they were
(27:36):
It's just weird, right, versus a normal mountain unit. It's like, well,
they're going to bed in this patch of timber, they're
going to feed this, and like you get that same action.
But yeah, New Mexico is interesting, you know, not where
we grew up hunting elk, and so I still feel
like I'm trying to figure it out or apply what
I think I know. And and that that spot where
you know we hunted first. Yeah, it was just like
(27:59):
a light switch, I my gut tells me because there
were bulls we'd never seen before all of a sudden
just show up. And then some there were some guys
hunting the same unit that ended up killing the bowl
later that we had seen four miles three miles away.
They had crossed two roads and crossed the Big Ridge
line and they ended up killing. So these elk are
just and he had heard of what seventy eight cows
(28:20):
and that bowl traveled a long long way. So it's like, man,
I don't know if we can like necessarily figure out
these things or if you're trying to hunt a specific boy,
better stay with them every day and you know, and
try to figure them out, because they were just moving
so much.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, you know, they would never like bed in the
same place, and they wouldn't bed long too, like you know,
typically like in the Northwest, you know, you bed down
some milco. It's like, okay, they went to bed right
over there. They're gonna stay there for most of the day,
right until it gets the shadows get long in the
evening and things cool off and the thermals change, and
it's like, okay, it's time to get up and eat.
Typically you're like, okay, I'm going to close the gap
(28:55):
and get over there, sit on them a while, and
start calling once, you know, about the middle of the day,
about twelve one o'clock. But New Mexico, I don't know
how many times I did that. It was like Houdini.
You'd get over there, get super close, and then it's like, okay,
they ought to be settled, let's start calling nothing. And
then you like slowly creep in those elk are gone.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
They would lay there for like an hour or something
and they'd get up and leave. But in my mind,
it's because there's so damn much rocks and pokey stuff,
I mean, and then there's not not a lot of
good shade, you know, there's not a lot of tall trees.
It was that kind of that low shade. The sun
would move and they probably get hot and maybe they're
laying on a rock in the wrong spot, so I guess,
(29:37):
or maybe they just like they don't want to stay
in one spot and let another bowl come along and
mess it up for him. But yeah, So anyway, back
to the podcast, I'll be hosting a lot of these
on my own type podcasts. Love to have Jason from
time to time. I'm gonna start a series here leading
up to September. We're gonna talk about preparations of what
(30:00):
you can do to prep prepare for September. You know,
all the things that go through my mind. Whether we're
talking about fitness, you know, since I'm a fitness model,
that's not not at all that but uh, we're going
to talk about fitness, We're going to talk about gear,
We're going to talk about getting prepared, scout e scouting,
we're going to talk about and then once September hits,
(30:22):
we're going to talk about you know, all the all
the tactics and and things to to use and to
do once you get to your spot, you know, and
maybe you're hunting out of state, maybe you're maybe you're
hunting your local area. But we're going to talk about
all the stuff that it's going to take to put
together an elk hunt for this fall and hopefully get
you better prepared. I know, I know every year, you know,
(30:42):
I've been doing this elk hunting with archery l hunting
for thirty four years and I'm like, Okay, I got
this figured out, and then the next year, I just
totally get schooled again, right. So that and that's the
great part about elkhunting. It's fun. It feels like it's
it's a craft that you can never master, and I
feel like that's what the fun part is.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, And I think that's why I love archaill hunting
so much, is that I'm one of those guys that's
just wired. If I'm going to do something, I want
to be the best at it, or feel like I'm
the best at or have full control and so by
never truly mastering any of it and and feeling like
I'm always trying to hone that or get to that
accomplishment or that goal of like having this dialed. But
(31:20):
I think the reality is it's just there's so many,
so many variables, and there the elk or were so
unpredictable that I think that the fun thing is that
I'm never going to have it figured out completely. You're
gonna have a pretty good idea and you're going to
do some things that work a lot of the time.
But every year is a new learning experience. I go
in with an open mind, try to figure out what's working,
(31:44):
and you know, just add it to my my experience.
You know, all my experiences go into a bag, and
then you try to pull those out and hopefully it,
you know, works. There's times where you know things can
work perfectly ten times in a row, you think you
got a slam dunk set up, and then you go
to run at the next time and it fails right
off the bat. You just never know. And that's what
I love about it.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, And like you know, I feel like a lot
of people think, oh, man, you if I had that tag,
I'd probably just kill this or that. And no matter
what how good a tag is from what I've found,
whether it's been on my own experience, I've had a
couple of decent tags. I've been along with other people
that have some really good tags. You still have to
(32:26):
show up and you still have to work hard. Every day.
Just because you've got a really good tag doesn't mean
there's three fifty bowls under every bush. I mean you
still got to get up and do it and try hard.
And and sometimes some of the better tags I've had,
I've had to try as hard, if not harder than
just good old over the counter units that I've had,
you know, luck in before. So that's some some something
(32:49):
that you know, you always had to kind of keep
in mind in this fall. So I've got a tag
for Montana, and I've got to well, I have a
tag for Idaho. Sure whether it's over the counter, but
I'm in for a draw for a good unit. So
you know, I'm probably more likely to get struck by
like draw this tag. But but who knows, somebody's got
(33:11):
to draw. There's always so But Montana, I mean Montana,
I mean it's a it's a great place to hunt elk.
It's a mecca. There's there's a lot of elk, there's
some big bulls, there's some It kind of checks every
box whether you want to hunt flat country or back
country or mountains or whatever. But there's definitely a learning
(33:31):
curve and and I haven't cracked the coat on Montana
yet so again, like I got to dig in on
my et scouting and I'm gonna make a trip here
in a few weeks over and just kind of learned that,
like an go to an area that I kind of
really want to check out and just go get boots
on the ground and check it out and see in
the past, I've I've just got my butt kicked in Montana.
(33:55):
So I'm kind of looking forward to this year like
maybe I'll build it, Like I'll figure it out. Right, Oh,
I got these Montana figured out, and then if I
get a tag again, it'll probably be a completely different game.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I know where we left some really big bulls last
time me and you were in Montana. Yeah, I want
to get back there. I just haven't had an ELK
tag in my pocket for Montana lately. But I I
I just find myself if I get bored at work
or if I just need to check out from the
mind numbing designs and stuff that I'm doing, I find
myself like floating back to that area because I one
(34:26):
of the biggest bulls I've ever seen on the hoof
I think was on that trip, and I think that
area can be good if you figure it out.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, well what I've been doing, if so I could
go hunt that area again. I've been working on my
track and field skills. I've been running hurdles, limbo and hurdles. Yeah,
I've never been to such a place with so many
blowdowns in my entire life.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
All right, you could, you could. We've spent ten minutes
at a time, never putting foot like on dirt. You're
on a tree, over a tree, walking this tree to
get to the next tree, because if you were to
put your foot on dirt, going to take it ten
times longer. It's just an incredible blowdown patch.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I'd like to say that was a fun hunt, but
I can't really say that. I mean, it was a
tough hunt. The camaraderie was awesome hunted with you and
Yannis and the camera guys were great. I mean, we
had a lot of laughs in a good time. But dude,
it was brutal. Like we'd hear bulls bugling across these
canyons and they weren't deep, nasty canyons. They're like, oh,
we'll be over there in fifteen twenty minutes. Now like
(35:26):
two hours, three hours later, we finally get over there,
will the elk are gone or done bugling for the day.
It was. It was so challenging.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I like, I mean, I'm gonna tell on you a
little bit. I think there was a point and I'd
like to say we would have killed this bowl if
Dirk had to go do some paperwork and the mountains
and for god his release. He didn't realize, kid, for God,
his release until we had I mean, in the size
of the bull doesn't matter, but in this case, just
to throw more at Dirk, like a very very healthy bowl,
(35:57):
mature bowl we'd been watching all day, was coming down
the pipeline or down a meadow bottom at him. And
at that time, when what was the one hundred and
fifty yards away, when Dirk realized that his release should
probably like make contact with his string, he realized he
didn't have a release on his wrist, and we had
the time when we called time. The elk didn't risk.
They didn't respect our time out that we had called no.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And then they then he moved to a position of
you know, he had the advantage over us. But just
you know, here's a pro tip. If you didn't go
do some paperwork, don't take your your lease off and
set it on the log, you know, put it in
your pocket or in your pack. At least that way
you can like dig in your pocket and get it. Man,
that how frustrating it was.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
You chuckle now, But in the moment you're like, oh, man,
like that dir's a.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Really hideous No.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
No, no, I wouldn't say that, but you're like, oh,
I think because that bowl was big, it had been
your best bowl ever. Probably, I think it was hard
and just like to have just the the stint of
bad luck that your release wasn't with you. And yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's really hard to time out those that paperwork time.
I mean, especially when you're eating weird food. You know,
you're eating you know, dehydrated meals and and uh high
fiber stuff, and.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
You always Yeah, I look back to that one, I'm like, man,
we did everything right. That was one of those days
where you just sit all day waiting for the wind
to switch and and for those elk to get out
of their beds and wake up, and it's like everything
was right, but it was. It was still good. But
now I one of these days I look forward to
come back to Montana. I've got five or six points
there looking to draw a tag the next time we
draw a big game combo. But yeah, I'm excited to
(37:31):
see how you do there in Montana and then Idaho.
You going back to your stomping grounds or.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, I don't know, I'm I'm torn. You know that
my old stomping grounds, that the elk density is so
low that you can spend a lot of days Like
last year, I spent a bunch of days with hardly
any bugling, any calling, and it's such stick country. It's like, well,
people are like, well, why don't you just you know,
glass them up and spot and stuck. Well, there's very
few areas you could actually spot an elk in the open,
(37:59):
and you could probably spend two weeks looking at that
opening and maybe never see a bird, let alone an
elk just lower densities and then so the elk have
to bugle if you really want to play the game
with them. So it was pretty tough. But every now
and then you'll turn up a giant, which I did
on the last day. I had to I had to
leave early. My wife got a pendicitis and I had
(38:20):
to had to head home. But I'm like, okay, we
can hunt till twelve o'clock and then we got to
go and turn up at just a monster and then
you know, didn't come together for me. But but that
I guess that's kind of the thing that kind of
keeps you going back. You kind of fall in love
with the country a little bit, the whole experience, and
then you know, every now and then, you know, you
(38:41):
turn up a pretty nice bowl and sometimes you can
capitalize it on it or not. But I'm not. I
don't know if I'll go back to that spot this year.
I'm thinking maybe trying something a little more local to
where I live, less less hours of drive time instead
of driving, you know, spending all my time driving. Maybe
I can check out some area is they're a little
closer to me to where I can have less drive
(39:03):
time and maybe spend more time actually boots on the
ground scouting.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, yeah, I think that spot you're looking at it's
pretty good. I just have a hunch.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, Well, if you wouldn't have been a dummy and
didn't get an ELK tag, you know, do I need
to call the governor and say, hey, get my buddy
Jason an ELK tag. You know what he likes to hunt? ELK?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, I think you have continued to I've been going
back and looking at the leftovers just to see, and
I think you still have control over me. There. You
get like, hey, if this Jason Phelps guy logs in
signed in, like there are no leftover tags or no turnbacks.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
The Idaho Fishing Game is shadow banning you.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, you you. I think they're You're gonna have to
call him back and tell him to take that off
of my account.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Okay, well there is a chance.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
So, I mean, because as much as I want to
really focus on one hunt, we could do a little
early early September run over there and we've had some
great success in that area early September.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, especially if I can get in there this
summer and put some boots on the ground and see,
you know, if the elk still where you left them,
you know last time you guys hunted there be like, yeah,
there's still a bunch of elk in here or is
it just wolf scat You never know?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah, you never know.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
But well that's fun, madam. I'm glad. I'm glad to
join the team here on the Cutting the Distance podcast
and the media group. Like I say, you know, I'm
not sure where it's all going to head. And look
like you know, on my day to day it's we're
still figuring that stuff out, but but I know it's
(40:33):
gonna be a good time. And And if you guys
want to watch that Elk film that we talked about
last twenty twenty two, new Mexico Elk film of mine,
that'll be playing on the Phelps channel here pretty soon.
So keep an eye out, check us out on social media, Instagram,
Phelps game calls, and you'll when we'll keep your breast
(40:55):
on what's going on in our film launches. So and
then you've got some films coming out too.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah, I've got mile Counts from last year coming out
on the Meat Eater YouTube channel. My My Quality Washington
Bowl I think is going to come out late August
early September on the Loophole channel, And uh, I think
that's is that it? That's all I got those two?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, I believe yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
One other thing. One one thing we forgot about some
tags we we didn't talk about our deer. I mean,
we got so wrapped up in the most supreme species
of animal on planet Earth. We forgot about about the
second second best mule deer and white tail third best
third best white Now that's pretty debatable. That's that's a
fist fight amongst deer, dear loving people.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Oh, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
You all know white tails are smarter than mule there.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, adaptable. I wouldn't say smarter, I'd say more adaptable. No, Yeah,
we got we got a couple of good deer tags
in our pockets too, for you know, November tag. So
we'll get to chase some can of meal is around
and then some Kansas whitetail around.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah. Man, I'm love that. I love the Montana Muley.
It's like usually you get over there and it's like
a blizzard. It's cold and it's nasty, and sometimes you
can't even see because your eyes are watering from all
the wind and ice chunks blown into your eyeballs. But man,
mule deer are so fun to hunt over there. And
then last year we did that with that whitetail hunt
(42:24):
with our good buddy Randy Milligan. And he's got a
beautiful piece of property.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know, it's the setup.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, he asked us to come over and hunt,
and it's like, I mean, how lucky are we?
Speaker 1 (42:35):
How do how do all the locals say, he's got
the hole.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
He's got the hole.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
So everything that's a good deer spots the hole. But
you talk to anybody that maybe that you know that
we're just we're brushing by, or you tell them you're
hunting Randy's or you're hunting with Randy, and that's all
you get. Yeah, he's got the hole.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, Oh yeah, he's got a hole.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
I'm taking that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, it's a good he's got a good buck hole. Yeah,
deer hole. And then it was it was an It's
super different than what we're used to. You know, I've
hunted white tails for years in North Idaho. It's a
different game, you know. I'd never set in a tree stand,
you know, and it's more of a ground game. But
we set in tree stands and ground blinds. And I'm
gonna I'm gonna be honest with you. I was scared
(43:16):
to death in the tree stand.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Oh. I was gonna ask you or have we been doing?
Like have you been training? Because it sounds like Randy's
gonna have us race up a tree, hook in and
then race back. Randy couldn't get over, you couldn't put
two guys in a more awkward position. I don't think
to start with, is hey, get up this tree and
clip yourself in. I'm like, Randy, couldn't we have did
this in the daylight to start with? Like it's pitch black.
(43:40):
I've never been up a tree in my life, and
here I am, like with a lifeline and trying to
get my thing all hooked in, and we should have
probably did this in the day daylight.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
It's like trust falls, really, I mean, it's like because
you weren't trusting that he put that those tree ladder
steps strapped on tight and good with good good straps,
aren't going to break?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you used to get climbing up like
this one's real faded? Is it still good?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah? They don't care it creaked a little bit, yeah yeah.
And then then then you try to get in the
stand and I look like he laughed. He started laughing
when I was getting the stand trying to get in
the stand because he didn't put his ladder to where
you could like climb up a little above the.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Stand and then just kind of s your stands. The
next step, the last step was.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Like where I needed to be standing on to step
into the so I had to kind of hump the
tree to get my feet on that that last step,
and then he's like, just swing your leg over, just
you're student wrong, just swing your leg over him, like
I can't. So then I heard I'm like, I'm like,
I swung the leg over and I'm trying to crawl
in and he was dying laughing. I wish somebody had
(44:49):
have been there to film it, because but then once
I got in this down, it's like, okay, I'm and
we got we got our harnesses on. We're safe. You know,
nothing would have happened if we had have fell out.
But then I get sitting there and I'm like, I
don't think I can draw my bow without being freaked out.
So I'm like, okay, build up some some confidence there.
(45:10):
Stand up. I'm like trying to draw my bus, like,
oh my god, I feel like I'm just gonna follow
the tree, stamp backwards, Okay, lean forward and shift weight
a little bit. Okay, well, oh my god, I'm gonna
fall out frontwards now I was. It was not good.
I'm like, I hope a big buck don't.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Come by this. I'm I'm not ready. I'm not ready yet.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I like the ground blind. It was a way better.
You just have to shoot through these little tiny narrow slats.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, watch your stabilizer, watch your arrow, watch.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Watch you with your wheel, your limb.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I mean it'll be fun. I'm looking forward to that one.
We were hoping that Steve was gonna go with us,
but fortunate and he didn't draw, So it just be
more dear for us, that's way.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll scout it out for him, because
you know, Steve would get the best stands and we'd
get second rate stands.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
This will work out better.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Right right, Well this way too, we can like scout
out the places they have the smaller bucks and we
can turn him onto those. Yeah, this is the this
is the hole over here.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
You don't want to be there. We should have a
great fall looking forward it. Yeah, stoke to have you.
You've you've co hosted a few times for me, usually
when I'm like running to the mountains and I'm I
don't have an episode that's ready for this. We hate dirt,
so you've covered for me before. But this is going
to be a permanent, full time gig. So we're excited
to have you here. On cutting the distance, I think
(46:25):
you'll bring a you know, exciting, new entertaining fuel to
the show where yeah, excited for our guest to be
able to get that.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah yeah, and guys, like I said, guys and gals,
please do send in those questions that way, we got
plenty of material. You know, sometimes you kind of get
embedded into this stuff and it's like, man, what don't we
even talk about? Because you take for granted, like you say,
you know of all the things, but there's a world
of questions and a world of topics we can cover,
whether it's elk hunting, deer hunting, crappie fishing. No, just kidding,
(46:57):
I like to eat croppy. You're delicious. Yeah, I wish
we had crappy where I love but they don't. Well
maybe they do, and I don't even know right knows
how smart what you know? But anyway, yeah, yeah, please
do call in or and we'll get that number on
my next podcast and episode and or you know, email
c t D at Phelpsing Game Calls dot com. So uh,
(47:19):
until next time, thanks for listening. And uh man, I
wish I really a really cool tagline, like like get them, get.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Them, cut the distance you have to come up with one.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Monsters are dumming.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
There you go, all right, Thanks everybody, everybody,
Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today, I'm joined by
Dirk Durham, better known as the Bugler. He's been the
Phelps Game Calls marketing manager for three plus years. We've
been working with him for five plus years. He does
more than just marketing, though he's marketing, he's kind of
our community manager. Great Elk color, great Elk Hunter. Proud
to call him a buddy. But God Dirk here, except
(00:33):
for his roles are changing. Sad to see him go
as the Phelps marketing guy. But he's gonna be transitioning
into a content creator for the Meat Eater content team.
But it's still gonna have a very heavy focus on
Phelps Game Calls brand and making sure that that's you know,
we've got good quality content. And another exciting announcement is
part of this new position is you're gonna be the
(00:54):
co host of Cutting the Distance. So the way it's
gonna work, I'll have an episode every other week, Dirk
will have episode in between those, and so I we're
excited to be bringing twice as many Cutting Distance episodes
to all of you. So with that said, I'm now
going to take the guest seat and Derek is gonna
host cutting the distance here.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Oh hey, there, I got some big shoes to fill.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, well only only literally because the size fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
That's what I meant, your size fourteen. I'm eleven and
a half wide. Yeah, wide shoes. How many people do
you know that has to wear a wide?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Shoot? Not me. I got fourteen's but they're normal.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well well I'm one of them, so I just found out.
But anyway, Yeah, man, I'm happy to be here, super excited,
uh taking on this new role. If I didn't have
a dream job before, I feel like this is even
more of a dream job. So I don't know all
the details yet. This is kind of a rapidly moving
transition change. But everything that that's kind of been set
(02:00):
forth seems to be pretty pretty awesome. Seah, it should
be pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I'm a little jealous of your your duties, your position,
but I mean, don't, don't get me wrong. There's a
lot of work there, a lot of I mean editing
is sometimes painstaking, and you know, planning all of our
content and travel to the shoots and whatnot. But it
seems to be pretty dang cool.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, especially if I have to edit like a mule
deer film, Right, if it was an Elk film, it'd
be exciting, but Mule Deer is like watching pain trying
not to.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Put him asleep. Is it should be good. I'm excited
because I know my strengths and weaknesses on a podcast
like very. I mean, anybody listens to Cutting the Distance tactical, technical,
and Dirk brings a different level of excitement, So I
think it'll be a great compare contrast. We'll have similar ideas,
but then you're gonna get you know, more entertainment from
(02:46):
Dirk and more technical for me probably. So I'm excited
to see the podcast evolve into a little bit of
a you know, Jacqueline Hyde or whatever you want to
call it. Just pretty contrasting I think from week to week,
and it'll be a good mix up.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, I'll have a lot of on my own podcast,
but really I would. My goal is I really want
to continue to like touch base with you and do
some collab podcast too, because number one, I like to
give you a hard time in front of everybody. Thanks,
I appreciate it, take you out of your comfort zone
a little bit, make funn of you know, kind of
what I do best. But those are the things that
(03:19):
we both love and everybody else does so so but
that's the reason why I'm over here, you know, to
cut this podcast with you. And then also spoiler alert,
we may or may not be working on some new
cool stuff for a Bugle Tube. But you know film
and Jason, you know, he dressed up like a nerd
tried to, you know, explain, explain what is airflow and
(03:42):
what not to the lay person, you know, dummies like me.
So I don't know. I just kind of glossed over
and just kept running the camera while you were talking.
But I tried not to laugh because you're the nerd
glasses you're Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, That's why I love when Dirk has a great idea.
Is it involves me dressing up into something that uncomfortable
for me, talking in a voice that's uncomfortable for me,
and then trying to get through what I have to
But no, I think it's it's good. We'll more more
to come later, but we're working on a YouTube that
we hope to have out pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, I'll talk about it. Hey, And as always, if
you guys have listener questions, you can email those two
c t D at phelps Calls dot com. And then
I want to do something really cool where I have
listeners call in. We're gonna get a phone number set
up here real soon, but I want listeners to call
(04:33):
in if they have a question, call in, leave a message.
I won't probably pick up the phone, you know, especially
if you call it two in the morning, Hello, but
call in with your question. I will play your question
on the air, and then I will do my best
to answer it. So I think that that would be
really fun and in a better way to kind of
get your question across. But if you don't feel like
(04:55):
call in and feel weird about leaving a message, then
by all means, please please send an email. Because I
feel like there's lots of questions out there that sometimes,
you know, being experienced hunters, we kind of take for granted.
But but if you're a new hunter, or maybe you're
experience hunter but you're seeing something weird every year you're
just like, hey, I just hey, you got any you
any feedback on this, then we'd love to hear those
(05:15):
kind of questions.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's tough at times to to, you know,
think about everything that we think about out in the woods. Right,
sometimes it just kind of comes natural and we don't
think about it, but some of you out there may
you still have questions on and it's always great for me,
Like I love any question at any level because it
gets me to think, It gets me to like boil back,
you know, situations that I've had to think about that
(05:38):
and yeah, every any question, every question will be accepted
and where we're excited to get those from you.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, And it's so weird. Sometimes folks will ask me
a question and immediately I'm just like, I don't know
what I why I do what I do, And so
it takes it kind of a minute to kind of
mull it over sometimes to like break down that process
in my head, because you know, once you've you've hunted
for a long time, sometimes you just kind of go
with your gut real quick and you don't even think
(06:05):
about the real the real reason why you do something
until somebody actually asked that question and it really breaks
it down. And so so those questions are great. So
some of the stuff, like you said, that we don't
even think about. It's great to get those questions and
then have us you know, break it down and and
make it to some usable some usable content. Well hopefully
I don't know you'll be thinking that anyway. I kind
(06:39):
of want to talk about elk season plans a little bit,
you know, it seems like that's part of the fun
of elk hunting is and in any kind of deer
and deer hunting and any kind of hunting is making
your plans to go. And I always look forward to
the plans, like, Okay, where are we gonna apply for tags? Okay,
now I got my tag. Now scout, you know, HIT
(07:00):
and E scouting, and that's super fun, you know, getting
on on on your on your computer and doing all
your scouting and then you know, talking to your buddies
and making plans. So, Phelps, where did you get an
elk tag? Did you get like a bunch of elk tags?
Or like you got one elk tag? What do you got?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So your beautiful state of Idaho decided to keep me
locked out? I don't know if if you set that up,
if you have when this, when this Jason Phelps guy
gets on here, make sure he doesn't get in the
waiting room.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So I've been listening to my emails like don't let
Phelps get attacked, right, hope we got too many non residents.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
So I didn't get Idaho kind of was like, oh,
this is fucking real bleak, right, And I ended up
in Colorado really didn't. You know, some of the points
game is is all random luck. I didn't feel like
quite burning Utah Colorado points and so I'm like, dang,
what am I gonna do? So uh, I had an
(07:54):
opportunity again to get an organ tag, so I was
able to gather that one up. And sometimes good decisions
come because they're forced. You know, the last few years,
I've been very fortunate, blessed to have multiple tags and
multiple states across the West, which is a blessing and
a curse. Right, You can't you spend six seven, eight
(08:19):
days traveling between these hunts, which is in my opinion,
We've said it time and time again. Time on the
ground is the most important thing to find in success. Well,
I'm losing two three days between each hunt trying to
get there, figure things out, change crews, move around. So
this year, only having one tag in my pocket, I'm like,
this is actually maybe a better thing. Let's just focus
(08:39):
on that tag all September. So I've got an Oregon
ELK tag. I plan to be there for twenty plus
days or whatever it takes, or shoot, maybe get it
done in a day or two. You just never know.
But on the on the schedule, I plan to be there,
you know, between twenty day eighteen to twenty days, and
then put all of my energy and effort into that tag.
And the other thing that I've by dancing all over
(09:01):
the country is sometimes we show up in new units
and you just start getting comfortable on day three, four five.
You know, it takes us a while to figure out
these ELK and where they want to go and and
just the general general patterns and whatnot, and you have
to take off. So I'm excited to just go finding out,
you know, go find ELK, sit on them, learn them,
(09:22):
figure out what's going on in an area, start to
take all those details. So yeah, and then I'm gonna
I gotta just gonna hunt. I haven't hunted my home
state of Washington for ELK. Not we should back up.
I did draw special tag last year in Washington, so
I did hunt at Washington ELK, but I haven't hunted
over the counter ELK in Washington since twenty thirteen. So
(09:43):
I'm gonna come back with a muzzleoader. It's been a
ten year break, So as confident as I'd like to be.
It is western Washington elk hunting, and it's gonna be
a tough one there. There's no guarantees in western Washington,
so it'd be a good challenge. But it'll be nice
to be able to hunt, hunt from home and hunt
some old, familiar grounds and see if I can still
figure out how to kill a raghorn around here.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, that's awesome to be able to hunt some of
that old ground. It's it's like, oh, you're kind of
rekindle an old love or something. It's, oh, man, I
love this this little viewpoint here. Oh I bet there's
some milk down in this little basin or whatever. And
then then then you don't hear anything and you get heartbroken.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Again, or or you remember how much you love the
Devil's Club in the bottom of this canyon and you
have the BlackBerry briars in this cant Yeah, it's uh. Now,
I I do a lot of hunting because of the
brush and the understory nowadays coming from Usterer Wasing like
I grew up just in a jungle, and so yeah,
I won't I won't necessarily enjoy that coming home but yeah,
we'll be fun to come back and go explore the
(10:44):
haunts that used to hold Elk all the time and
see what's still around.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, And to your point back to having that one
September tag is like you said, you know, you lose
a lot of time to travel into but you know,
if you haven't had two or three Elk tags in
your pocket each fall and you try to hit you
try to hit timing just right. There's there's been times
where you go to a unit and uh, there's Elk there,
(11:07):
but they're just not talking, or they're talking but they're
not coming to calls. I mean, every stage of the rut.
Every every day is a little different.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Man.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
If you're not there in the right days, in the timeframe,
you can have a really tough hunt, you know, or
maybe it's inclement weather. You know it's hot and dry,
and you know the day you leave it starts raining
a little bit and things get freshened up and bam,
elkor on fires. So that's that's tough.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah. And so by being in one place, you can
take advantages of the highs and lows. But you versus
you may miss you may be in a low the
entire time. If you only have six or seven days
in an area and we've all been there where it's
like just even the same unit, is this the same Elka?
You know, it's like somebody just flip the light switch
on that morning and it's nuts, versus you've been hunting
it for ten days prior to that and just been lackluster.
(11:53):
So I'm excited to be able to catch that. The
other big change in Oregon this year is they've always
started the I'm gonna probably get this wrong, but it's
it'll be mostly right. Like the last Saturday in August
was always their start or some some form of that.
They always would start that season in late August, but
typically the Oregon seasons would close up twenty first twenty second.
This year they moved that ahead a week, so it
(12:13):
will now I'll be able to hunt into the very
end of September, which I'm excited about because I'm one
of those guys that really likes the peak of the rut.
I don't necessarily need to be like, well, you might
have more success on the front end or the back end,
like I want bulls biegel and ripping their heads off
more so than what my percentages of killing them, and
I've always had great success, you know, from the thirteenth on.
So it's like I'd rather just be in that more
(12:36):
peak of the rut than outside of it.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, even if you know, let's say the bulls are
cowed up and they're not coming to calls real good,
it's still just fun. You know you're doing it, you're out,
you're out participating in the rut, right, Whereas if they're
not talking at all, you're just like, oh my god,
does this will even work anymore? I don't know what
I'm doing. It's not a fun hunt compared to like,
at least if you get to see them interact and
(12:59):
interact with them, that's a lot funner.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I've never twenty nineteen Idaho hot as heck. Everything was
dry up top, and I had never been more defeated
on an elk hunt than that one, because we were
looking at bulls every day. There's a bowl, there's a
herd in that canyon, and you'd be glad them nothing.
You'd walk up the there's elk, you'd be agle at
(13:22):
them nothing. I'm like, there's nothing more defeating before you start,
Like these are the ones I can see they're not
making a peep, Like I don't even know if I'm
buggling to like big Timber, and it was just like
you're just you're worthless out there, like if they're not
gonna bugle, Yeah, we can go stalk, you know, spot
and stalk these elk because we know they're there and
nothing else is talking. But it's just really defeating to
So yeah, I'd much give me bugling bulls all day,
(13:44):
and I'll take that over, you know, maybe more elk
or elk that aren't bugling.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah. Yeah, Well like last year in New Mexico, for instance,
we we had the opportunity to hunt the same unit,
but you were we were hunting two different seasons. You
were for season, I was second season, and you kind
of saw a little different different performance of the rat
than I did. Talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, So when we showed up and we actually even
have better or more data than that because me and
Maranella got to hunt the unit the year be prior,
so we got these and me and Steve hunted first season.
You ANDed second season. But within that first season, it's
a fifteen day season, so me and Steve hunted the
last six days me and col hunted the first seven
days or whatever it was, and it was it was
(14:32):
a lot different. And there were still elk there. Don't
get me wrong, there were elk, but you could tell
that they weren't quite settled into where they wanted to be.
For September, we were watching, you know, the same bowls
days apart. One time one would have cows, one times
he wouldn't, one time he would have a few cows,
and you could just like tell that the pecking order
(14:52):
was being established and these bulls really didn't want to
play the game the way we wanted to. But the
year before, I'm like, man, we ran the same system,
did the same thing like we normally did, and we
had bulls, you know, these big bulls just going crazy
coming into calls. Last year was very You almost felt
like you were walking on eggshells in the in the
mountains with the call in your mouth. Right, you were
(15:13):
just as much as we always preached the hammer at them,
locate them, move in aggressively. You were like, this isn't
working right. You knew on day one or two you
tried to run that system and things were going the
other way, and you didn't get winded so it was
just very you had to play very reserved and very
similar to the Idaho scenario. I was just talking about
(15:34):
where you knew they were out There were elk everywhere.
You get up in the morning, elk feeding out above.
But you move in tight, try cow calls, nothing, try,
you know, you just couldn't work these bulls. And I
think it had to do with the timing. They just
weren't receptive to kind of some of those systems. But yet,
so the other question in my mind is like, well,
you know, if your your buggling is not working, let's
(15:55):
go run caw calls, let's let's change. But it wasn't working.
I think we were in this time where they had
they were, you know, breaking down the hierarchy, they were
establishing herds, they were going through this process and they
didn't really care about this cow elk that they couldn't see.
And so I almost felt helpless. There was nothing we
could do to really get things going very well. Multiple
(16:16):
call ins where things would kind of half ass commit
and then they would lose interest halfway on a call in,
where before you could almost hang your hat on this
cal and like all this bulls committed, you know, you
can see it when they break and you know, they
might have to go into a little rise or and
you're like, where did that go? But just a lot
different than when you were there just the ten days
(16:36):
after we left.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Right, And then you say, the bulls that you've seen
with the cows were like younger bulls, like younger five points,
like two and a half three and a half year
old bulls.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, for the most part, as we got like we're
hunting the first of the eighth or something like that.
Early in the hunt, there were a lot of small bulls,
and the bigger bulls seemed to be running, you know,
by themselves, kind of checking on these herds, checking these cows,
you know, doing what they do prior to you know,
estris or whatever they're waiting on. They leave those younger,
(17:10):
more immature bulls to run the herds and they just
kind of spot checking. Then towards the end you started
to see the bigger bulls picking up cows, you know,
or groups of cows, smaller groups. I think it was
it was just timing. We were ahead, right for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So then fast forward to whenever Dusty and I showed up,
it was a little it was quite a bit different scenario.
You know. There were the bulls were very vocal, big
bulls now are taking cows, but those those younger bulls
were kind of, you know, playing the Satellite Bowl.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Role.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And it was it was still like with those bulls
being cowed up so much, they seem to kind of
still want to want to keep those cows. So you
start calling to them and they're like, yeah, I don't
think so. Then they'd move off, and they'd move off,
and it seemed like they were moving over to an
area away from where we were at. Like it almost
(18:04):
seemed like all the elk where I was hunting was
kind of moving over to this other area, you know.
And I don't know we should even say it, but
it was right next to this we're hunting, the kind
of a line of a border line of another unit.
So they were moving over into their their running mecca,
which was on the other side of the line. Though,
So we're kind of like you're helpless. You're like standing
(18:25):
at the fence line, which is the border. You're like, man,
I wish I could go over there. Yeah, I mean
you could like just over the rise. I could just
hear chaos. It sounded like something off off of some
of those old old Primos videos, you know, just just
twenty five different bulls screaming their guts out. Oh my god,
I wish I could even see into it, just to
witness what's going on over there. But it seemed like
(18:47):
every day we got like less elk on my side,
and they were moving into that other unit, and we
were just about ready to like, Okay, we're gonna completely
move in the unit because the unit is fairly good size.
We're gonna move areas here. But on the third day
then and it was the same thing, like if I
bugled a lot, it seemed like we're gonna, we're gonna leave,
(19:07):
you know that the big bulls would move off, and
then the satellite bulls they didn't seem to be want
want much confrontation, but uh, the satellite bulls weren't super
super vocal. Though. It seemed like the big bulls googled more,
and then the satellites would kind of come in quiet.
So I started kind of start doing some cow and
calf calls, and uh, we're just about ready to leave
(19:31):
this area. I'm like, you know what, Dusty, let's uh,
let's wrap it up here. Let's hike back to the truck.
Let's grab our camp and we're gonna just move move
our camp. I like to I like to kind of
travel light, you know, I don't set up a big laborcat.
Let's move our camp over the other part of the
unit and try it over there. And but there was
this one bull. They just kept on like Laney sounded
like he was laying's bed and he did this really
crappy moany bugle. He sounded like a moo cow. And
(19:53):
there was a bunch of moo cows in the area too,
you know, moving around like that stupid thing sounds like
beef cow moving in its bed over there. But it's
an elk. So I'm like, let's go. It's on the
way to the truck. Let's go on the way to
the truck. Let's go over there and just kill that
bowl and we'll just go home. Yeah, you know, I
kind of said that, you know, kind of being funny,
like there's no way in heck we're going to kill
(20:15):
this bowl. But anyway, we get over there, super super
close and get danger close, like I thought, Okay, if
I take one more step, this bowl is going to
see us or detect us. So that's how close we
want to get. So I stopped and I let out
the most quiet little calf call you've ever heard, and
(20:36):
the bowl answers, and I'm like, and I can see movement,
and we're like sixty eighty yards from this bowl. I
can see antlers through the trees. He's laying there, and
I gave a few more and he stands up, and
then over the next five ten minutes, he just kind
of slowly feeds over to us, and they'd give this
real weird moany move out bugle every little better. It
(20:58):
was a well you'll be able to watch the video.
The video is gonna drop here pretty soon. But anyway,
came over, came in close enough I was able to
shoot him, you know. And I don't want to give
too much away, but anyway, it was an interesting It
was a definitely an interesting hunt from what Phelps had described.
And then the biggest, the biggest, the biggest grind I
(21:19):
actually have with New Mexico and Jason Phelps is that's
dirty sucker didn't tell me about chiggers. Like like, on
day two, I woke up and I've got this weird
rash all over the inside of my elbow? Is that
like the ween No, the weennus is the actually the
loose skin on your elbow. This is like the the
elbow inside your your elbow pit. I was like, oh
(21:44):
my god, a spider must have just ate me up
last night. So I'm like checking my sleeping bag for spiders.
I'm checking the dent for spiders, and I'm like, Dusty,
look at these spider bites, and and that the next morning,
the third day, i wake up and I've got him
on both side and then up on my chest. I'm like,
what is going on? And then we get this elk killed.
(22:06):
And then we're driving home and as we drive, they're
getting worse, like we hadn't showered, of course, and I'm like,
it looks like somebody shot me with bird shot. I've
got him so bad. I'm like, oh my god. And
they itch so bad. And it was a different kind
of itch that I'd ever experienced. It was like it
was like a mosquito bite times one hundred, and you
couldn't quit itching, and every time you'd itch, it was
(22:27):
so satisfying the way it felt, but then it made
it itch more. Yeah, it was horrible, and I was
like Phelps and I sent him a picture. I'm like,
what's something something got me? And he's like, oh, yeah,
those are chiggers. I'm like what to.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
The best of my knowledge, because the year before me
and Steve both got lit up and then I forgot
to tell you just ten days prior to you being there.
Cow got it worse than anybody I'd ever seen, Like
along your belt line, your armpits, neckline, like they anywhere
they could just get in and there they hurt. It's
it's weird, like centerpoint feels like there's some sort of
(23:01):
stinger or something. You still so when you itch him
it actually hurts a little bit. Yeah, they're they're nasty
to the best. If you know what they are, let
us know about it. So the best of what we
could check is they were like some sort of tigger
on steroids.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Well, when we got home, Dusty took a piece of tape.
He started reading about it and he's like, okay, he
thinks they could be tiggers. And so he got a
piece of like duct tape and put on one of
the bites and then peeled it off. And then he's
got a he's got a microscope, right, you guys are
probably hit it off real good. You just get a
nerd out about you know, nerd stuff. It's science, yeah,
basically science. You could probably explain it, but we wouldn't
(23:35):
understand it. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it.
But so he looks at it through a microscope and
then takes a picture and sends it to me, and literally,
it's a it's a tigger. It's like just like the
picture online. And they're nasty, like they burrow in. They
don't they lay eggs or something.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
That little thing grows and you have basically fists on
you until it's ready to get gone. Yeah, and then
they weep out. It's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, it was. It was horrible. I like literally I
and I was a dusty didn't get it as bad
as I did. I think my my body makeup, you know,
fat guy. They I got a lot of a lot
of good stuff coming through my pores evidently, you know,
if Krispy Kreme don't at Greece, I don't know what else.
But they loved me and to literally two months later,
I was still scratching them things like a crackhead. I mean,
(24:21):
it was, it was bad.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, I did want to rewind just a little bit
since we did have that first experience, you know, me
(24:43):
not being able to make hardly any calls, you not
necessarily being able to make aggressive beagles. But like when
me and Steve were there, we were actually there before
you in this maybe just to lay out that you
can expect different things on different years in the same spots.
We were there five six days ahead of you, and
it was really good because I had pre scout prior
to Steve and the team getting there. We could not
(25:04):
not make the right call. I could get tight Bugle,
I could get tight calcol and we had bulls just
like running the ret Fest, you know, five hundred. It's
like it's like they were on a poker run. They
needed to come check out this bowl. They need to
go check out that bowl. And every bowl was like
making this crazy loop and it was like nothing I
had ever seen before. So yeah, it's just weird from
(25:25):
you know, three three different trips of the same unit
anywhere from about fifteen sixteen days apart, and the elk
acted completely different at different times.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, And you know, honestly, if you if you hunt
elk for very long, you kind of you notice that,
like it's not every year. You know, every year's not
a ten. There's a lot of fives out there, you know,
and every day is not a ten. Definitely within you
you're alloted time, you know, whether you're a weekend warrior
in it, which you know I used to do that
a lot back in the day, or you know, if
(25:56):
it's five ten days whatever, you got to hunt in
year to year. Just there's some years just line up
good and they hit and some some they don't. And
I think that's year to year. The ruts ruts more
intense or less intense in certain areas. I mean, you
look at New Mexico when we hunted before in another area.
You know, we hunted there two years in a row,
and it was it was a little lackluster until that
(26:18):
one day and it was like the flip of a
switch man and big nasty bugles. If I if I
blew a big nasty bugle, man, it really got the
bulls going. You know, they didn't care about cow calls.
Whereas you know the next year when we went there
with lampers, then, man, I don't know that I ever got.
(26:39):
I had one day that was maybe half as good
as the previous year, but we still didn't go with
those big rut fests that that we loved. But in
the area had hardly any cows. So if there's hardly
any cows in my mind, and there are quite a
bit of bulls, like the bull crowd ratio is pretty
tight in my mind, like blow a cow call and
them things are gonna beat your door down. But they
didn't really care about cow calls much either. There. It's
(27:01):
just I don't know. I think there's a lot that
go along with the timing and all. You know, we
don't know what happened the first season. We weren't there
the first season. Maybe they were running around like crazy,
you know, coming to bugles and cow calls.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And they're I mean, you hunted that flat country quite
a bit. I just feel like that other area that
we hunted first was they were just more nomadic, right,
There was no pattern to them. Those elk may have
came from three miles away and joined up, or it
just seemed like lots of movement. It wasn't so much
like local elk. And yeah, it was like one day
on fire, one day nothing. It was just they were
(27:36):
It's just weird, right, versus a normal mountain unit. It's like, well,
they're going to bed in this patch of timber, they're
going to feed this, and like you get that same action.
But yeah, New Mexico is interesting, you know, not where
we grew up hunting elk, and so I still feel
like I'm trying to figure it out or apply what
I think I know. And and that that spot where
you know we hunted first. Yeah, it was just like
(27:59):
a light switch, I my gut tells me because there
were bulls we'd never seen before all of a sudden
just show up. And then some there were some guys
hunting the same unit that ended up killing the bowl
later that we had seen four miles three miles away.
They had crossed two roads and crossed the Big Ridge
line and they ended up killing. So these elk are
just and he had heard of what seventy eight cows
(28:20):
and that bowl traveled a long long way. So it's like, man,
I don't know if we can like necessarily figure out
these things or if you're trying to hunt a specific boy,
better stay with them every day and you know, and
try to figure them out, because they were just moving
so much.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, you know, they would never like bed in the
same place, and they wouldn't bed long too, like you know,
typically like in the Northwest, you know, you bed down
some milco. It's like, okay, they went to bed right
over there. They're gonna stay there for most of the day,
right until it gets the shadows get long in the
evening and things cool off and the thermals change, and
it's like, okay, it's time to get up and eat.
Typically you're like, okay, I'm going to close the gap
(28:55):
and get over there, sit on them a while, and
start calling once, you know, about the middle of the day,
about twelve one o'clock. But New Mexico, I don't know
how many times I did that. It was like Houdini.
You'd get over there, get super close, and then it's like, okay,
they ought to be settled, let's start calling nothing. And
then you like slowly creep in those elk are gone.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
They would lay there for like an hour or something
and they'd get up and leave. But in my mind,
it's because there's so damn much rocks and pokey stuff,
I mean, and then there's not not a lot of
good shade, you know, there's not a lot of tall trees.
It was that kind of that low shade. The sun
would move and they probably get hot and maybe they're
laying on a rock in the wrong spot, so I guess,
(29:37):
or maybe they just like they don't want to stay
in one spot and let another bowl come along and
mess it up for him. But yeah, So anyway, back
to the podcast, I'll be hosting a lot of these
on my own type podcasts. Love to have Jason from
time to time. I'm gonna start a series here leading
up to September. We're gonna talk about preparations of what
(30:00):
you can do to prep prepare for September. You know,
all the things that go through my mind. Whether we're
talking about fitness, you know, since I'm a fitness model,
that's not not at all that but uh, we're going
to talk about fitness, We're going to talk about gear,
We're going to talk about getting prepared, scout e scouting,
we're going to talk about and then once September hits,
(30:22):
we're going to talk about you know, all the all
the tactics and and things to to use and to
do once you get to your spot, you know, and
maybe you're hunting out of state, maybe you're maybe you're
hunting your local area. But we're going to talk about
all the stuff that it's going to take to put
together an elk hunt for this fall and hopefully get
you better prepared. I know, I know every year, you know,
(30:42):
I've been doing this elk hunting with archery l hunting
for thirty four years and I'm like, Okay, I got
this figured out, and then the next year, I just
totally get schooled again, right. So that and that's the
great part about elkhunting. It's fun. It feels like it's
it's a craft that you can never master, and I
feel like that's what the fun part is.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, And I think that's why I love archaill hunting
so much, is that I'm one of those guys that's
just wired. If I'm going to do something, I want
to be the best at it, or feel like I'm
the best at or have full control and so by
never truly mastering any of it and and feeling like
I'm always trying to hone that or get to that
accomplishment or that goal of like having this dialed. But
(31:20):
I think the reality is it's just there's so many,
so many variables, and there the elk or were so
unpredictable that I think that the fun thing is that
I'm never going to have it figured out completely. You're
gonna have a pretty good idea and you're going to
do some things that work a lot of the time.
But every year is a new learning experience. I go
in with an open mind, try to figure out what's working,
(31:44):
and you know, just add it to my my experience.
You know, all my experiences go into a bag, and
then you try to pull those out and hopefully it,
you know, works. There's times where you know things can
work perfectly ten times in a row, you think you
got a slam dunk set up, and then you go
to run at the next time and it fails right
off the bat. You just never know. And that's what
I love about it.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, And like you know, I feel like a lot
of people think, oh, man, you if I had that tag,
I'd probably just kill this or that. And no matter
what how good a tag is from what I've found,
whether it's been on my own experience, I've had a
couple of decent tags. I've been along with other people
that have some really good tags. You still have to
(32:26):
show up and you still have to work hard. Every day.
Just because you've got a really good tag doesn't mean
there's three fifty bowls under every bush. I mean you
still got to get up and do it and try hard.
And and sometimes some of the better tags I've had,
I've had to try as hard, if not harder than
just good old over the counter units that I've had,
you know, luck in before. So that's some some something
(32:49):
that you know, you always had to kind of keep
in mind in this fall. So I've got a tag
for Montana, and I've got to well, I have a
tag for Idaho. Sure whether it's over the counter, but
I'm in for a draw for a good unit. So
you know, I'm probably more likely to get struck by
like draw this tag. But but who knows, somebody's got
(33:11):
to draw. There's always so But Montana, I mean Montana,
I mean it's a it's a great place to hunt elk.
It's a mecca. There's there's a lot of elk, there's
some big bulls, there's some It kind of checks every
box whether you want to hunt flat country or back
country or mountains or whatever. But there's definitely a learning
(33:31):
curve and and I haven't cracked the coat on Montana
yet so again, like I got to dig in on
my et scouting and I'm gonna make a trip here
in a few weeks over and just kind of learned that,
like an go to an area that I kind of
really want to check out and just go get boots
on the ground and check it out and see in
the past, I've I've just got my butt kicked in Montana.
(33:55):
So I'm kind of looking forward to this year like
maybe I'll build it, Like I'll figure it out. Right, Oh,
I got these Montana figured out, and then if I
get a tag again, it'll probably be a completely different game.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I know where we left some really big bulls last
time me and you were in Montana. Yeah, I want
to get back there. I just haven't had an ELK
tag in my pocket for Montana lately. But I I
I just find myself if I get bored at work
or if I just need to check out from the
mind numbing designs and stuff that I'm doing, I find
myself like floating back to that area because I one
(34:26):
of the biggest bulls I've ever seen on the hoof
I think was on that trip, and I think that
area can be good if you figure it out.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, well what I've been doing, if so I could
go hunt that area again. I've been working on my
track and field skills. I've been running hurdles, limbo and hurdles. Yeah,
I've never been to such a place with so many
blowdowns in my entire life.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
All right, you could, you could. We've spent ten minutes
at a time, never putting foot like on dirt. You're
on a tree, over a tree, walking this tree to
get to the next tree, because if you were to
put your foot on dirt, going to take it ten
times longer. It's just an incredible blowdown patch.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I'd like to say that was a fun hunt, but
I can't really say that. I mean, it was a
tough hunt. The camaraderie was awesome hunted with you and
Yannis and the camera guys were great. I mean, we
had a lot of laughs in a good time. But dude,
it was brutal. Like we'd hear bulls bugling across these
canyons and they weren't deep, nasty canyons. They're like, oh,
we'll be over there in fifteen twenty minutes. Now like
(35:26):
two hours, three hours later, we finally get over there,
will the elk are gone or done bugling for the day.
It was. It was so challenging.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I like, I mean, I'm gonna tell on you a
little bit. I think there was a point and I'd
like to say we would have killed this bowl if
Dirk had to go do some paperwork and the mountains
and for god his release. He didn't realize, kid, for God,
his release until we had I mean, in the size
of the bull doesn't matter, but in this case, just
to throw more at Dirk, like a very very healthy bowl,
(35:57):
mature bowl we'd been watching all day, was coming down
the pipeline or down a meadow bottom at him. And
at that time, when what was the one hundred and
fifty yards away, when Dirk realized that his release should
probably like make contact with his string, he realized he
didn't have a release on his wrist, and we had
the time when we called time. The elk didn't risk.
They didn't respect our time out that we had called no.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And then they then he moved to a position of
you know, he had the advantage over us. But just
you know, here's a pro tip. If you didn't go
do some paperwork, don't take your your lease off and
set it on the log, you know, put it in
your pocket or in your pack. At least that way
you can like dig in your pocket and get it. Man,
that how frustrating it was.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
You chuckle now, But in the moment you're like, oh, man,
like that dir's a.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Really hideous No.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
No, no, I wouldn't say that, but you're like, oh,
I think because that bowl was big, it had been
your best bowl ever. Probably, I think it was hard
and just like to have just the the stint of
bad luck that your release wasn't with you. And yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's really hard to time out those that paperwork time.
I mean, especially when you're eating weird food. You know,
you're eating you know, dehydrated meals and and uh high
fiber stuff, and.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
You always Yeah, I look back to that one, I'm like, man,
we did everything right. That was one of those days
where you just sit all day waiting for the wind
to switch and and for those elk to get out
of their beds and wake up, and it's like everything
was right, but it was. It was still good. But
now I one of these days I look forward to
come back to Montana. I've got five or six points
there looking to draw a tag the next time we
draw a big game combo. But yeah, I'm excited to
(37:31):
see how you do there in Montana and then Idaho.
You going back to your stomping grounds or.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, I don't know, I'm I'm torn. You know that
my old stomping grounds, that the elk density is so
low that you can spend a lot of days Like
last year, I spent a bunch of days with hardly
any bugling, any calling, and it's such stick country. It's like, well,
people are like, well, why don't you just you know,
glass them up and spot and stuck. Well, there's very
few areas you could actually spot an elk in the open,
(37:59):
and you could probably spend two weeks looking at that
opening and maybe never see a bird, let alone an
elk just lower densities and then so the elk have
to bugle if you really want to play the game
with them. So it was pretty tough. But every now
and then you'll turn up a giant, which I did
on the last day. I had to I had to
leave early. My wife got a pendicitis and I had
(38:20):
to had to head home. But I'm like, okay, we
can hunt till twelve o'clock and then we got to
go and turn up at just a monster and then
you know, didn't come together for me. But but that
I guess that's kind of the thing that kind of
keeps you going back. You kind of fall in love
with the country a little bit, the whole experience, and
then you know, every now and then, you know, you
(38:41):
turn up a pretty nice bowl and sometimes you can
capitalize it on it or not. But I'm not. I
don't know if I'll go back to that spot this year.
I'm thinking maybe trying something a little more local to
where I live, less less hours of drive time instead
of driving, you know, spending all my time driving. Maybe
I can check out some area is they're a little
closer to me to where I can have less drive
(39:03):
time and maybe spend more time actually boots on the
ground scouting.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, yeah, I think that spot you're looking at it's
pretty good. I just have a hunch.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, Well, if you wouldn't have been a dummy and
didn't get an ELK tag, you know, do I need
to call the governor and say, hey, get my buddy
Jason an ELK tag. You know what he likes to hunt? ELK?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, I think you have continued to I've been going
back and looking at the leftovers just to see, and
I think you still have control over me. There. You
get like, hey, if this Jason Phelps guy logs in
signed in, like there are no leftover tags or no turnbacks.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
The Idaho Fishing Game is shadow banning you.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, you you. I think they're You're gonna have to
call him back and tell him to take that off
of my account.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Okay, well there is a chance.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
So, I mean, because as much as I want to
really focus on one hunt, we could do a little
early early September run over there and we've had some
great success in that area early September.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, especially if I can get in there this
summer and put some boots on the ground and see,
you know, if the elk still where you left them,
you know last time you guys hunted there be like, yeah,
there's still a bunch of elk in here or is
it just wolf scat You never know?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah, you never know.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
But well that's fun, madam. I'm glad. I'm glad to
join the team here on the Cutting the Distance podcast
and the media group. Like I say, you know, I'm
not sure where it's all going to head. And look
like you know, on my day to day it's we're
still figuring that stuff out, but but I know it's
(40:33):
gonna be a good time. And And if you guys
want to watch that Elk film that we talked about
last twenty twenty two, new Mexico Elk film of mine,
that'll be playing on the Phelps channel here pretty soon.
So keep an eye out, check us out on social media, Instagram,
Phelps game calls, and you'll when we'll keep your breast
(40:55):
on what's going on in our film launches. So and
then you've got some films coming out too.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah, I've got mile Counts from last year coming out
on the Meat Eater YouTube channel. My My Quality Washington
Bowl I think is going to come out late August
early September on the Loophole channel, And uh, I think
that's is that it? That's all I got those two?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, I believe yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
One other thing. One one thing we forgot about some
tags we we didn't talk about our deer. I mean,
we got so wrapped up in the most supreme species
of animal on planet Earth. We forgot about about the
second second best mule deer and white tail third best
third best white Now that's pretty debatable. That's that's a
fist fight amongst deer, dear loving people.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Oh, I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
You all know white tails are smarter than mule there.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, adaptable. I wouldn't say smarter, I'd say more adaptable. No, Yeah,
we got we got a couple of good deer tags
in our pockets too, for you know, November tag. So
we'll get to chase some can of meal is around
and then some Kansas whitetail around.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah. Man, I'm love that. I love the Montana Muley.
It's like usually you get over there and it's like
a blizzard. It's cold and it's nasty, and sometimes you
can't even see because your eyes are watering from all
the wind and ice chunks blown into your eyeballs. But man,
mule deer are so fun to hunt over there. And
then last year we did that with that whitetail hunt
(42:24):
with our good buddy Randy Milligan. And he's got a
beautiful piece of property.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know, it's the setup.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, he asked us to come over and hunt,
and it's like, I mean, how lucky are we?
Speaker 1 (42:35):
How do how do all the locals say, he's got
the hole.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
He's got the hole.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
So everything that's a good deer spots the hole. But
you talk to anybody that maybe that you know that
we're just we're brushing by, or you tell them you're
hunting Randy's or you're hunting with Randy, and that's all
you get. Yeah, he's got the hole.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, Oh yeah, he's got a hole.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
I'm taking that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, it's a good he's got a good buck hole. Yeah,
deer hole. And then it was it was an It's
super different than what we're used to. You know, I've
hunted white tails for years in North Idaho. It's a
different game, you know. I'd never set in a tree stand,
you know, and it's more of a ground game. But
we set in tree stands and ground blinds. And I'm
gonna I'm gonna be honest with you. I was scared
(43:16):
to death in the tree stand.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Oh. I was gonna ask you or have we been doing?
Like have you been training? Because it sounds like Randy's
gonna have us race up a tree, hook in and
then race back. Randy couldn't get over, you couldn't put
two guys in a more awkward position. I don't think
to start with, is hey, get up this tree and
clip yourself in. I'm like, Randy, couldn't we have did
this in the daylight to start with? Like it's pitch black.
(43:40):
I've never been up a tree in my life, and
here I am, like with a lifeline and trying to
get my thing all hooked in, and we should have
probably did this in the day daylight.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
It's like trust falls, really, I mean, it's like because
you weren't trusting that he put that those tree ladder
steps strapped on tight and good with good good straps,
aren't going to break?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you used to get climbing up like
this one's real faded? Is it still good?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah? They don't care it creaked a little bit, yeah yeah.
And then then then you try to get in the
stand and I look like he laughed. He started laughing
when I was getting the stand trying to get in
the stand because he didn't put his ladder to where
you could like climb up a little above the.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Stand and then just kind of s your stands. The
next step, the last step was.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Like where I needed to be standing on to step
into the so I had to kind of hump the
tree to get my feet on that that last step,
and then he's like, just swing your leg over, just
you're student wrong, just swing your leg over him, like
I can't. So then I heard I'm like, I'm like,
I swung the leg over and I'm trying to crawl
in and he was dying laughing. I wish somebody had
(44:49):
have been there to film it, because but then once
I got in this down, it's like, okay, I'm and
we got we got our harnesses on. We're safe. You know,
nothing would have happened if we had have fell out.
But then I get sitting there and I'm like, I
don't think I can draw my bow without being freaked out.
So I'm like, okay, build up some some confidence there.
(45:10):
Stand up. I'm like trying to draw my bus, like,
oh my god, I feel like I'm just gonna follow
the tree, stamp backwards, Okay, lean forward and shift weight
a little bit. Okay, well, oh my god, I'm gonna
fall out frontwards now I was. It was not good.
I'm like, I hope a big buck don't.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Come by this. I'm I'm not ready. I'm not ready yet.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
I like the ground blind. It was a way better.
You just have to shoot through these little tiny narrow slats.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, watch your stabilizer, watch your arrow, watch.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Watch you with your wheel, your limb.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I mean it'll be fun. I'm looking forward to that one.
We were hoping that Steve was gonna go with us,
but fortunate and he didn't draw, So it just be
more dear for us, that's way.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll scout it out for him, because
you know, Steve would get the best stands and we'd
get second rate stands.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
This will work out better.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Right right, Well this way too, we can like scout
out the places they have the smaller bucks and we
can turn him onto those. Yeah, this is the this
is the hole over here.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
You don't want to be there. We should have a
great fall looking forward it. Yeah, stoke to have you.
You've you've co hosted a few times for me, usually
when I'm like running to the mountains and I'm I
don't have an episode that's ready for this. We hate dirt,
so you've covered for me before. But this is going
to be a permanent, full time gig. So we're excited
to have you here. On cutting the distance, I think
(46:25):
you'll bring a you know, exciting, new entertaining fuel to
the show where yeah, excited for our guest to be
able to get that.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah yeah, and guys, like I said, guys and gals,
please do send in those questions that way, we got
plenty of material. You know, sometimes you kind of get
embedded into this stuff and it's like, man, what don't we
even talk about? Because you take for granted, like you say,
you know of all the things, but there's a world
of questions and a world of topics we can cover,
whether it's elk hunting, deer hunting, crappie fishing. No, just kidding,
(46:57):
I like to eat croppy. You're delicious. Yeah, I wish
we had crappy where I love but they don't. Well
maybe they do, and I don't even know right knows
how smart what you know? But anyway, yeah, yeah, please
do call in or and we'll get that number on
my next podcast and episode and or you know, email
c t D at Phelpsing Game Calls dot com. So uh,
(47:19):
until next time, thanks for listening. And uh man, I
wish I really a really cool tagline, like like get them, get.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Them, cut the distance you have to come up with one.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Monsters are dumming.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
There you go, all right, Thanks everybody, everybody,
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.