Ep. 45: Fall Bear with Jeff Roberts

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome back to cutting the distance. Today's guest is a
lifelong Washington resident. My buddy, Jeff Roberts, grew up hunting
in eastern Washington. Meal Deer is a traditional wall tank
camp with his dad and uncles. Success was low, but
morale was high and memories were plentiful. If first hunting
was just something like many of us, he did in October,
but rapidly turned into year long obsession. In twenty sixteen,
he started P and Wild to share his adventures with

(00:33):
everybody else. Today, P and Wild is a successful small
business providing professional imagery and videography, as well as running
a podcast and YouTube channel dedicated to showcasing not only
the beauty of Washington State, but all other Western states
where we can pursue big game. Washington State hosts an
amazing fall bear season, allowing hunters to harvest two bears
statewide beginning August first. Over the years, fall bear hunting

(00:53):
has become a top priority for him in P and Wild,
and in twenty twenty two, last year, the three members
of P and Wild harvested seven bears, one being in Montana,
six in Washington. And I know they help friends and
family with many more so, I figured there wasn't a
better guest to have on the show to talk about
fall Bear season right in the middle of it, and
welcome to the show, Jeff.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, man, thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I appreciate that. Are you chomping at the bit you
have to get out there? I know we've started to
see some success on the social media and whatnot, and
it seems like it's going pretty good right off the bat.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
It is, man, I'm actually kind of learning to love
the opener rather than just kind of waiting for it,
you know, getting into September when a lot of people
think it gets better, which it does, but the opener
can be really good. But yeah, I went out last
night actually and turned up not a bear, but a
decent buck. So that's always fun to just get outside
and have a tag in your pocket. Just feels good
to be out there. And it's August first, is a

(01:50):
pretty early opener around the West. I think we're one
of the ones that kick it off, really, but yeah,
it's good. I'm super excited to get rolling.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, this is one of those weird years where I
don't I'm not going to pretend to know, you know,
usually you get the bad winter, Like we had a
big snowpack and everybody's like, oh, the berries are going
to be late. But then we've had like this accelerated
late spring in the summer, so is it going to
like speed the berries up or they And it's always
kind of interesting to see, are you gonna miss, you know,
have like a bad barrier year, you know, at least
for us hunting the west slopes of the Cascades or

(02:20):
even here where we're picking up huckleberries or BlackBerry bears,
like where the berrys at? And are they gonna come
on right or late or early or not at all?
So we're trying to sit and wait that out. And
what are your buddies seeing right now? Are they are
their berries low? Are they still late?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah? So I'm right there with you, man. I was
this whole off season in July, just get leading into it.
I was super concerned that we were going to have
a really really late very year because our snowpack was
so deep up high, and then it's completely opposite of
what we were kind of fearing. Mid July, Zach and
I went on a scouting trip and we were finding
huckleberries ripe around thirty six and last night they were

(02:57):
at forty two, So it's kind of accelerated, and just
like you said, kind of right in the July, just
a lot of consecutive really really hot days, and I
think huckleberries, I mean, I know huckleberries are ripe at
forty two, and a couple of my buddies are smashing
them right now at four thousand. My buddy John actually
went out on opener lat yesterday, which was recording this
on August second, So the opener was yesterday and they

(03:19):
killed one at forty one. So it's it's right there
with maybe on on our normal year. Last year, it
was its way ahead last year on opening weekend, we
were killing them right around twenty four to twenty six,
and that was the only ripe berry source. So it's
definitely it's past that, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, we're gonna dive a lot deeper into the food
sources and stuff here in a little bit, but just
trying to get a recap on what you're seeing. So
I have to tell a funny story. You know, we
were as we got to know each other, you were able.
I think we first kind of met up. You came
down to the Western Hunt with me yep, and worked
a booth. I think two years came down.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, you're so twenty. I think it was twenty just
one year and there was twenty seventeen, I think, yeah,
or twenty eighteen maybe yep.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, So we got to know you there and then.
But the original time we met, I think maybe you
were fairly You had obviously hunted meal, deer and stuff
before you chwa washing, but I think you had just
drawn an ELK tag and that's kind of how we
had met. You were kind of picking me for information
where we'd go, and your spot was good, and I
think we kind of, you know, together, kind of you
told me what you had seen and it kind of
correlated with what I thought. But there was this one

(04:22):
spot in the unit that I really wanted you to
check out, and you were I think you were over
there scouting like every weekend and I'm like, what do
you see that. He's like, Oh, we didn't go in
there yet or I didn't set a cam there yet.
And it was one of those drain It was two
drainages that met, but they were just a little bit
kink from each other, so it had these two passes
where it kind of connected it at a diagonal, and
so the best thing I could do is to make

(04:43):
up a story about my neighbor having an elk tag
that had been over there scouting as well. It was
a rifle tag, but he had been seeing a giant
in this area. But hey, Jeff, just just just don't
go tell if you see this guy up there. You
didn't talk to me, and so I can remember, real,
real vividly on a Sunday morning, I'm like, oh, Jeff
Roberts is facetiming me. And as I answered the phone,

(05:05):
I actually answered it into the spotting scope and there
was a real good bowl there, and you know, I
wasn't a giant, but it was like a what three
twenty three thirty type bowl, like a.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Great Yeah, it was great Washington, one of those the
bigger bowls that we've scouted. So I was super excited.
I was like, man, this Jason guy is super nice man. Yeah,
nice guy.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
I don't remember if I told you the truth then,
or if I waited a while to tell you that
I'd actually lied to you about that, but it's kind
of funny. I'm like, well, at least at least my
my hunch was right that there should be a good
bowl there. But that was kind of that was kind
of a funny, funny little story as we we got
to know each other there as we were you know,
you guys were just I think that was the first
year you guys did anything with p and wild, right,
that was your first year of filming and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, that was the year that I drew my my
Quality east Side Archery tag and U super excited about it.
But yeah, like you said, grew up meal deer hunting
and didn't know anything about elk hunting. My dad never did.
It was always just meal deer, meal deer, mild deer,
did nothing but meal deer, so no elk bear. So
it was all kind of on my own to learn it.
And I just kind of hit the ground running and
came across you and your content that you were putting

(06:05):
out on the local forums and stuff, and then I
reached out to you there. We kind of exchanged numbers,
bought a lot of your calls and stuff, and then
ended up I don't know how you gave out your
cel phone to me. That's a big problem right there,
but you did. And then I got a tip from you, like, hey,
I heard there was a nice bowl in here, and
sure enough went up there and at first light scouted
that bowl out. He was with like two or three
other bowls just kind of batched up in that summer stuff,

(06:27):
and I was like, holy cow, this is the one
Jason was talking about. For sure. Just I had a
nice three twenty three thirty bowl or something.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
It was all made up. I just had to get
you there somehow to check it out.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I wanted to know well it worked. Man. I was
a sucker and I just went right in there and
put some glass on it. I was like, worst thing,
you know, get in there and get some glass on it,
and sure enough it turned up.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah. No, that hunt. That hunt was a good one.
If you guys want to go check it out. I
think it's one of the original p and Wild videos,
So go check that out. But like every Cutting the
Distance podcast, we're going to start this thing with listener questions.
So if you have a question for me my guests,
make sure to hit us up on social, send us
a message, email us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls dot com,
and we'll do our best to get those questions answered

(07:07):
for you. So we got three questions today I'm gonna
give these questions Jeff first, and I'll either add to
or take away from that, or disagree or agree with them.
So the first question we got, which is important right
now as I think it's maybe eighty five degrees outside,
how do you take care of your bear in the
field when it's hot? You know, you got hot weather

(07:28):
you're dealing with, which effects the meat you've got Taxi, Dremy,
you've got this hot weather. Bears more so than any
other critter, like very quick to slip the hide. You
don't want that hair to start slipping. So give us
kind of what your your field carry is and what
you're thinking about in the you know, the field when
you get to a bear after you're done taking pictures.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, so this is this is something that is a
huge question of ours as well. And I actually just
did a video on our YouTube channel about how how
I rug something out. And again I'm not a tax
nermous I'm not you know, some professional. We just do it,
you know, a couple times a year and it seems
to work. I got two of them behind me that
Jason can see. Those are both of our soft hands

(08:06):
from last year. Both of them are beautiful chocolates. So
it's like, man, I got to take these and get
these taken care of. But I think it's especially for me.
I hunt primarily on the East Side in August, early
August into that early September. It can dip into the hundreds.
It can get really really hot. So one of the
priorities that we really prioritize. Prioritize number one is just
get into the shade. And if you're if you're not,

(08:28):
you got you gotta find some kind of shade, especially
when you're processing, because that can take, you know, several hours.
And so this is exactly the process that I did
last year. Get these bears into the shade while you're
caping them, while you're taking them, you know, quartering them out,
whatever you want to do. So get them into the shade.
Get cool. Just step one is get get into a
cooler place, and if you're next to a creek or something,
even better, get down into the shade. Get some wind, going,

(08:49):
get some air to that hide. And like you said,
if you're going to keep that rug or keep that trophy,
the hide is the first thing that's going to start slipping.
But if it started getting to meet as you start
quartering them out. What we'd like to do, it's in
that video as well. We just get the quarters off
into shade and if you've got to have a buddy,
you know, leap frogum one hundred yards down the creek
or whatever you're at, just get them into some shade,
get them out of the direct sunlight, and get them

(09:10):
in a game bag. Hanging the air to that quarter
is going to help a ton too. It doesn't have
to be cool, it just has to be that air
running to that that excuse me, that quarter. So have
a buddy, leap frogin or you can get up and
you guys can just take turns cutting. If you're solo,
you just got to get it into the shade. And
as you kind of work that bear down and you're
getting rear hands off and you're getting neck meat off.

(09:31):
I would just get that meat out off that hide,
exposed to you know, into a game bag and exposed
the wind of some sort and some shade and then
just like it's cliche, but get back to the truck
as fast as you can. A big tip is keep
your coolers pre cooled, so don't just show up to
the hunt with no ice. In your cooler. Yeah, expect
to be successful. It's gonna pay off if you are

(09:54):
spend the ten dollars on ice or a cheap way
to do it is just everyone drinks milk at home
or has water. If you don't, you know, throw a
milk jug full of ice, so freeze them overnight at home.
You know, get those coolers nice and cooled down. On
your way to a hunt. We're kings of just weekend
warriors and sometimes Friday after work you have that cooler
in your truck already filled with you know, those those

(10:15):
frozen milk jugs of ice or on at least your way.
Get the block ice. This seems to last longer rather
than this crushed. So get a couple of things of
block ice in your cooler so when you get back
to the truck you have the nice cool spot to
put that meat and right away. Unfortunately, we experienced a
little bit of spoilage last year on one of Bobby's bears,
just one of our seven, just that top layer of

(10:37):
the cooler, and it could have just been weigh the
way that we stacked it, or it just could have
been you know, it was one hundred and five and
you know, got to get six miles and that takes
some time. And what's in your backpack and it's next
to your back, that heat from your body can just
get to that meat. And unfortunately, I don't know if
it's spoiled on the way or just you know, the
next couple of days after we got back to the
truck and continued to hunt, we had a little bit

(10:58):
of spoilage in the very very top of one of
Bobby's quarters. So it does happen, and it's a reality,
and I think just you know, being cautious of it
can pay off.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, bears, And I'm not responsible for these numbers, but
like you know, on a deer elk, we kind of
always figure we've got two to three days as long
as it's not scorching hot like before that hide starts
a slip to get it to the tax nermos to
get it salted. But a bear, I mean, on a
warm day, you're dealing with with twenty four hours. You
got less than a day to deal with that thing,
get it cooled down. And one thing to reiterate what

(11:28):
you said about air flow versus heat, Like I'm willing
to let something if I had to set something down
in the shade on let's say a game bag or
on my waterproof sack versus let it hang and ninety
degree heat, like air is just as important, especially in
that first twenty four hours as heat is. Now. Ideally
you get both, you know, get stuff to the shade
and hanging. But I'd rather let something hang, you know

(11:51):
if it's a little bit warmer, but get air to all,
you know, every side of that meat. And then in
that first twelve to fourteen hours, I don't pay as
much attention into to the meat or not the meat,
but the but the the heat. I would rather get
airflow to it. And like you said in your pack,
when that thing, you know is not able to breathe,
and you're like, that's where you're gonna get that spoiled.

(12:12):
So the quicker you can get that thing to air
and get it to air out let some out some
of that heat. Like it's it's all, it's all to
the benefit of the quality of that meat. But yeah, bears,
bears are interesting. One thing on the tax germy side.
There's a lot of ways to do it. Some people
will make a decision down the back and then like case,
skin the legs I did. It seemed easier for for

(12:32):
the way I run a knife. For what I thought
was to cut down the inside of all four legs
and then I connect them with angled lines that connect
down the belly. A taxidermist has to sew that anyways.
And so as long as don't get too nervous, as
long as you're making clean straight cuts, you can connect
the four legs down to a center line, you know,

(12:54):
come down at angles, meat and then the tax and
then case skin out the neck the tax terms is
gonna be put that together, no problem, you'll never know.
You know, mine mine had a white chevron on it,
the one that I had full mounted, and so I changed.
I just changed the angles of my line so I
didn't have to deal with like but you still had
to take your center line through it, which was it

(13:14):
was a little disheartening, but a good tax nurmers will
put that back together like it should go.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah. I haven't had the you know, the the chance
to life size a bear yet, so that's a I
guess that's a good problem to have. Yeah, is it
a different cut? Thinking about it, is it going to
be a different cut than than a bear rug? Your
traditional rug no.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
No, it'll be real. It'll be real similar, so similar
if you imagine like the bear, so the same cuts,
lay the bear out as white as it can. So
if you go on the inside of everything, when you
lay that hide out, you're getting the max. You know,
there'll be some trimming and whatnot, but yeah, you would
do it the same.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Way, gotcha, gotcha?

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah. So the next question, which is something that I
had to learn a lot coming from deer elk cutting,
especially Archiel cutting, where we don't glass as much during
bear how long are you going to glass before you
move spots?

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Oh man, in some of our spots, if if we
know that there should be a bear in that particular area.
So just like kind of rethinking last season where it
was just lights out. It was one of the best
bear seasons we've had in a long time. And and
and I'll move fairly quickly, especially if I know that
the rest of the trail, or if if can you
know further on down, if a couple basin's over that

(14:26):
we still got a check, we're gonna We're gonna move
fairly quickly, especially in the fall. If the berries are right,
huckles are right, there's a very small window of time
that a bear's not going to be on those, especially
the later in the fall you go so early in August, Yeah,
sit and sit on a clearcut, sit on a on
a berry patch that you see is right for a
little bit longer as you progress through the falls, as
the huckle berries kind of kick off up higher and

(14:48):
the and they're drying out down lower, and they're kind
of going into that fall like vacuum mode where they're
just only caring about a food source and I'll just
keep checking basins. I'll move faster. So it kind of
depends on the time of year that we're in, early
time or early season, like right now, Yeah, i might
hang out for half a day and just wait for
see if something's gonna come out, especially if I'm on
clearcuts or something like that. You could sit all day

(15:09):
on a clear cut that you know is going to
hold a bear at a point in time. But as
you progress through the fall, I'm going to be moving
more rapidly, especially if I know, you know, in certain
some of our areas where we have so many areas
intertwined on a trail system, or if I'm on a
ridge line that has base and base and base and
basin and the high country like we like to do it. Yeah,
I'm moving pretty frequently. I might stopping glass for thirty

(15:31):
minutes and see if I can pick something up, and
if not, I'll move on to the next one. And
we'll kind of just do a back and forth on
a you know, six mile trail or you know, you know,
back and forth on a three or four mile a
ridge line or something like that, and just keep checking
little basins.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yep, and we'll get into it a lot more. But
one of those things like once you realize where those
barriers are at what elevation, Like you're being a smart hunter, right,
so you're gonna know, all right, the barriers are on
from forty six to fifty two or whatever, and you're
just gonna you really have to you only have to
concentrate on a ribbon of the mountain, you know, you
don't have to go above it so much. You don't
have to go below it. So you're your glass is
literally on a tripod just swinging at in elevation and

(16:07):
and uh, you know, but around now that's different, you know,
like when I have the goat rocks, you know, some
of our mountainous stuff versus if I'm hunting here on
home where I'm industrial timberland, you know I'm dealing with
BlackBerry brush or alders or Devil's Club. We were talking
about this before the podcast. I can sit in glass,
I know that I'm in a spot where we've been

(16:27):
seeing bears. So you know, you're you're just not willing
to move clearcuts, right, You're just gonna You're gonna glass
this big clearcut all night. But you can literally glass
hours and within an instant, all of a sudden, the
bear pops out of nowhere. And that's where I feel
that if you're hunting more industrial timberlands clearcut type stuff,
it's tough to do right because I'm not very patient.

(16:49):
But if you know there are bears in the area,
you've seen them there before, Like, your best bet is
not to leave a bear to go find a bear, right,
I would I hammer that more than than it than
going to find a new area. And so I've learned
to be a lot more patient. It gets boring as heck.
It seems like you're looking to the same, you know,
same thing over and over and over, but it's penciled

(17:10):
out more times than not around here versus you know,
just driving around looking at new clearcuts that I don't
know if there's bears that have been frequenting it exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
And if you don't know there's a food source in
that clear cut, you know, most chances are that there's
going to be some kind of berry in that food
source or in that clear cut. But yeah, if you
know that you're on a clear cut or you're in
a basin that holds huckleberries and that you know is rife,
Like you said, we already have the leg work done.
We know there's elevation wise where they're fifty five to six.
I'm going to just sit there and kind of back
and forth, go to basin, the base in the basin

(17:39):
at those elevation lines and tell something is in there.
And when they are, man, you got plenty of time
to make a play because they're going to be on
food for a long time.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yep, yep. Rolling into our last question, shot placement on
a barrier, And this is one of those topics that
as I get questions from guys, you know, as we
just it is August second, so our season just started yesterday.
But a lot of questions like where do you shoot
a bear? You know, or guys arguing with their hunting
buddies where you know, a lot of this new stuff

(18:07):
has come out where to shoot a bear? And so
I'll let you explain and all kind of see what
we if we match up there? Where are you going
to shoot a bear?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Jeff? Well this, I mean debated this, and everyone's got
a different answer. Middle of middle. I'm a little forward
of middle of middle, especially on a perfectly broadside like
I have an awesome video last year on our last
last episode on our YouTube channel from last fall, I
just got a beautiful bear in like picture perfect alpine meadows,

(18:36):
just wide open, and I just wait for ended up
being a sow. She turned completely broadside and you can
see that I just aimed slightly forward of middle of
middle and it was lights out in you know, thirty seconds.
So you can't really argue with that. Some people do
have the argument of you know, shoulders shooting them if
and so this anchorm right there. You hear that on
forums and stuff, and it's it works for people. Everyone.

(18:59):
There's a nine ways of skin a cat. I guess
where are you sitting? Are you? Middle middle guy?

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, so I'm I'm middle middle, just slightly forward of middle.
Like you know, it's hard to say, you when you're
shooting at a bear to push it three inches forward,
But so I always imagine you take the heads in
the leg, you know, off of a bear, and you're
left with what's a body. So if you just you know,
for those of you that don't know what we're saying
by middle of middle, if you just draw a line,
you know, halfway up horizontally and halfway up vertically and

(19:25):
set your crossaters there and then just go a little
bit towards the front front end of him, like that's
where we're shooting.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I there are guys that will kill bears by shooting
them like deer and elk. You know they're going bottom third,
bottom quarter and then going slightly behind the shoulder or
through the shoulder. It will work, and it's killed bears.
But I also think that more bears are lost due
to that shot placement versus more conservative go you know,
go up to that middle of middle, give yourself a

(19:53):
bigger target, and the bear's going to die really really
quick when you hit him in the in that spot.
You know their their lungs are back a little bit
further than most you know, compared to our deer and
elk that that most people hunt. Yeah, so it's it's
it's a more conservative shot. You got more room for air,
and the bear's going to die real quick versus trying
to break them down to the front shoulders.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, I agree. It does feel weird when you got
crosshairs and you're kind of this like it feels like
you're aiming too far back. But like angulit's like you're
saying dark deer and elk, they're just their anatomy is different,
so that the bears just tend to sit back a
little bit farther, and it does feel weird. But middle middle,
slightly forward. It that's a that's a great way to
look at it.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, all right, Well, once again, if you guys have
questions for me or my guests, make sure to email
them to us at CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com,
or send us a social message and we'll do our
best to get them on here for the guests. So
now we're going to jump into our discussion. Jeff, you know,
we come from a state where we no longer get

(20:51):
the hunt bears in the spring, which was one of
my favorite favorite types of hunting, and it gets a
lot of attention. But rightfully so, right spring bear there
in the whole lot of else going on aside from turkeys.
A lot of big game hunters despise turkeys for some reason.
I love it. But you know, it was that first
time too, man, it was that first time to get
back in the mountains kind of chase the snow up
those bears are, you know, and but but we don't

(21:13):
have that anymore. So here in Washington. We've got a
great bear population and our fall hunt is pretty dang
good as well. Not to mention these bears have put
on an extra sixty eighty pounds since the spring. There
a little bigger, a little tastier, a little more fat.
So we've we have to love fall bears season. As
we mentioned, it's a great state. Like I would never
recommend anybody come here for dear elk, but if you're

(21:36):
just looking for a fall bear hunt in August to
get ahead of big game, like I apologize for our
pricing for non residents, but it's it can be a
pretty it can be a pretty dang good hunt to
come here. And we would really appreciate if you helped
us out with all of our bears.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
One hundred percent agree with you, man, I can't recommend
it enough. We've had a couple of friends and partners
from other states come out to Washington to hunt with
us and been successful so far. I mean, I don't
think it's actually too terribly bad. I think a non
resonant bear is like two hundred and eighty bucks or
something like that if I remember correctly. I apologize if
it's if I'm way off on that, but I think

(22:12):
it's in the two to three hundred ballpark there, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, that's not bad at all. So let's jump in.
We'll kind of start this start to finish. So scouting,
do you do any scouting for fall Bear or are
you just going back to your your existing spots year
after year.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
So this year actually with with Sack drawing another ELK tag,
we haven't been doing the scouting that we usually do
for fall Bear. But yes, a on a I'll say,
a quote unquote normal year for us where we don't
have a priority ELK tag that you know takes nineteen
points to draw, where our kind of efforts have been
down there scouting for that, hanging cameras and doing that.
But on a more normal year, yes, we're in the

(22:50):
field scouting and we're not really necessarily looking for bears,
although that's going to be you know, a great bonus
if you do find one. We're kind of just keeping
our finger on the pulse of the berries, what's going on,
where the elevation is, and we're kind of planning out
the fall because we've wanted our you know, our local
spots or our favorite spots for a decade over a
decade now, and we kind of know what to look

(23:10):
for at certain times of the year. You hit these
milestones of you know, I got pictures on my phones
of you know, the basins that we like to hunt
and their snow depth as the as the spring and
summer kind of you know, progressed and we're getting closer
to fall and and it's kind of like a stopwatch
after that snow in those high on those high basins
is completely melted off and you're getting the sunlight onto soil.

(23:32):
It's a stopwatch and we like to say sixty days
and it's it's right there on on on. Let's just
say an average year, maybe not accelerated drought or some
kind of crazy rainfall. On a normal year where're just
getting kind of normal weather, it's about sixty days and
from that snow melting off and getting sunlight on soil,
you can you know, pretty much guarantee that sixty days

(23:53):
from then you're gonna have huckleberries starting to become ripe.
And it's worked out in the past for us. So
let's say June first, you got hook or you got
sunlight on soil. You can say that August first around,
then give or take a week or so, you're gonna
have right berries, and then that'll work on for you
know that higher country stuff where you know July first,
so that pushes you out to that labor day window

(24:15):
and time and time and time. Again we've been able
to prove this, if you will, where that it kind
of it works out more times than not. So scouting absolutely,
keep your eye on weather, keep your eye on the
berry sources, keep your eye on basins. And obviously, like
we got to a road last time last year, we
got to a road and our main in and out

(24:36):
road was closed due to a landslide, so you might
not know that when you get there August first ready
to go for a hunt, and you can't get there.
So now you got an audible right, So it always
is going to benefit to keep your finger on the
pulse and get in your area, keep glass on the hills,
and kind of keep your eye on the berries too.
That's a huge thing. So then you know that, you know, okay,
I need to be at you know, forty one for
open or not twenty six. This is a huge swing

(24:58):
from last year. We're two thousand feet above. And I'm
not speaking for everyone in Washington State, so don't hang
me out to dry if it's not if I'm talking
about areas that don't kind of add up to you,
but in our areas, the Northern Cascades were way different
from last year. We're way above what we were last
year for berry ripe and and that's why I think
it's very important that you should be out in the

(25:19):
field as much as you can.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, yeah, And like you mentioned, you know, he's talking
Northern Cascades. I'm in kind of the Central Cascades. But
I think the important thing to take away is use
data and start to develop a plan. Like you know,
these guys have been doing it enough where they know
sixty days, and you know, so they if they if
they're paying attention to the snow line, they're going to
have a pretty good idea where those bears are going

(25:41):
to be once August first gets here. And then once
they're out in the field, they can kind of, you know,
keep track of them and keep track of how they
move and how the bearers are moving up. And like
I say, if you're being a smart hunter, you're also
going to be able to see where the berries are
moving just as you're on the ground or as you're
trying to eat the berry path, you know, eat the
berries as you go, like you're at the right elevation
when you're trying to eat the berries. So I do
want to touch on e scouting, but I'm gonna save

(26:03):
that a little bit later in the podcast when we
talk about train and elevation and whatnot. So eat scouting
is a very important part, especially you know, I think
for bear hunters to look for some things, but we'll
separate that from scouting. It relates a little more to
terrain and and what you're looking for for you know,
finding food sources and whatnot. Do you find that the

(26:35):
bears that you guys are hunting travel a long distance
or are they just going up and down the mountain?
Are they are they pushing out of an area to
get back or are you are you guys do you
believe they're just going up and down a drain. It's
almost like say a migrating deer from where they're danning
in the spring, you know, if they come out in
April May. What's your opinion on where these bears are

(26:56):
traveling by the time the fall season gets here. Is
there a way to scout in me around? Are they
just kind of hanging out in an area eating you know,
the cadmium layer on for trees and eating the brush
that they do that the new fresh grasses kind of
what's your opinion on travel or is it Do you
guys even try to pay attention to any of that?

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Absolutely, man, And I racked my brain a lot of
the times trying to figure that out because and let's
just say Labor day, that's like our peak timing for
fall bear. I think everything is primarily ripe up an
alpine And that's just, in my opinion, the funnest time
to hunt them, because they're way exposed, they're way up
in the alpine on berries, and they're very stationary. They're
going to be sitting there. Like last year, I shot

(27:35):
my last beer this season, my second bear of this season,
at like one fifteen in the afternoon, and you could
see that bear for she didn't she couldn't get away
from you know, a mile and a half in each basin.
She's in the wide open, very little cover. So it's
very fun. You know, they're they're very exposed. They're out
in the wide open, you know, kind of making themselves
pretty vulnerable. So anyways, that's at seventy two hundred feet

(27:59):
pretty high, sixty eight to seventy two, And you got
to wonder where did this thing travel from? You know,
where did you where do you den? Obviously down in
the valley somewhere, but maybe not. Maybe they do stay
up high those you know all I don't know if
they're like old gnarly mule deer bucks that just don't
want to come down, or but yes, I try to
figure that out. And I know for a fact that
they're going to have to come down because it's just

(28:21):
it's just too high up there. The food source is
just so rare up there. And then at their springtime
they're going to be half they're going to need to
come down and find a food source in the early spring.
And I have found bears in some of our higher
basins in that later springtime, so like early June, you know,
you're driving through and you whip the glass out and
you're checking out a basin and you're like, whoa, there's

(28:41):
a there's a bear up there eating that really lush
green grass. You know, at you know, sixty two hundred
feet in June fifth or something. But yeah, I don't
really have a finger on the pulse as far as
they're they're traveling goes, but it is something that's very
curious to me. Where do they go, What are they
doing in that time where they're not really exposed up

(29:02):
in the alpine, and then in their early August, early
August early I guess it's gonna be late summer early August.
Then they all start coming out. They'll start they'll start
at that thirty two hundred feet elevation is really kind
of the elevation I start at in the Northern Cascades
on the eastern slope, and you kind of work your
way up so you can hunt creek bottoms in August first,
and then as the fall progresses. As we get into fall,

(29:24):
you know you're going to find them at seven thousan
seventy two something like that. I shot at a bear
last year at like seventy three. So they're going to
go to the top where that food source carries them.
So they're just going to go wherever that food source
is going. So you're going to start early August down
in the creek bottoms is kind of the vegetation is
ripened down there, and they're just really going to go
with it. They're just going to travel that water line,
if you will, up to the top when that food

(29:45):
source is. As long as that food source is lasting,
they're going to be on them.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, and I know there's been some studies where bears
will move, you know, thirty plus miles just in the fall.
So like we're talking late July and you just to
find the berries or find the right food source. And
there's a local guy here, you know, Capital Forest up
up just southwest of Olympia. He killed a bear just
out my back door that was collared in Capital Forest

(30:11):
and then got killed in almost pel Washington. So you know,
we're talking fifty miles as a crow flies real old
I don't remember, that's thirteen or sixteen year old bear,
really really old bear. But yeah, they it just they
will travel a long long ways, either looking for you know,
during the route, looking for sALS or looking for the

(30:31):
right food source. And it kind of kind of snapped
my mind a little bit that that a bear let
go there. I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't collared
that you know, it travels fifty miles as a crow
flies to it, you know, from Capitol Hill to Willipa Hills.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Here.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
It just seemed like a long waist for those bears ago.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't really surprise me, but I mean,
on the other hand, it kind of does like that
there's got to be food sources for him and they
don't need to travel that much. But like you said,
it could be the rut for them, or it could
just be food even you never know.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yep. Yeah, and then there we did. We're not going
to talk a whole lot about it, but there's like
the the you know, alpha boor or whatever you want
it like, just getting kicked out or displaced out of
his area. And and one thing that uh, you know,
talking to some some bear hunters that have a lot
more experience than I do, at it is there are
prime spots on the landscape right that that big, big

(31:25):
mature bears, bores they like to have the easy pickens,
and they're gonna take over that spot as soon as
they're their pedigree or there there, you know, their their
names on the pecking order. At a high enough place,
they're gonna kick all those other boars out. And so
it sounds like on a lot of these spots you
can go back almost yearly, you know, as long as
you gonna shoot out in an entire area and find

(31:48):
those biggest bores and similar spots.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Here after year. Absolutely, man, I have a pretty funny
story about this exact situation. So last year a buddy
of mine, Chris McCollum, was watching this just absolute slob
of a bear in a high alpine meadow and they're
trying to make a move on him. Get up in
there to that exact meadow, and they watch this bear
go up in over cliffs and I'm talking like mountain

(32:12):
goat country type of cliffs kind of watch them go
up and over and they're sitting on him hoping he's
gonna come back down in the evening, come down on
those cliffs and onto that food source, because he was
on a really really ripe, just amazing huckleberry field. And
then two or three hours after that big jet black
bear went up and over, a little tiny chocolate comes
out of the trees and starts feeding in his meadow.

(32:33):
So exactly back to that kind of alpha boar or
something like that, where they kind of command their respect
to the other bears when they're there and they're feeding,
that's their spot. And then after he went up and out,
you know like, oh, I'm kind of full, I'm gonna
go take a nap, you know, midday after he left,
a couple hours later, here comes this tinier, lone boar,
you know, two three hours later and just takes his
little berry patch. So it is funny to watch that

(32:56):
kind of interact and kind of think about that and bears.
How many times have you seen, you know, multiple bears
in the same meadow and within a couple of days.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, a lot. You know, when I had you know,
a good spot up here where we had multiple bears.
They it's almost like they gravitate towards each other, and
that's where like, if you find a bear, there's typically
going to be more around there, even in the fall,
you know, springtime, especially when they're running. But it just
seems like our good clearcuts are bigger clearcuts that are
at that right age, you know, six to twelve years old,

(33:25):
not typically your fresh clear cuts. You're gonna have multiple
bears all in that same general area. Now they might
hang out on opposite sides, they don't want to be
around each other, but yeah, multiple bears and similar spots.
Because once again we're going to talk about it here
in a little bit, it's really tied to the food
source in that area, the prime food source. They're all
trying to get a piece of that.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
I absolutely agree, absolutely agree. I've seen it time and
time again where there's just multiple, multiple bears in the
same general area and they're kind of playing hot basin two.
But last year, in one of our premier spots that
we just kind of hold on that labor day, we
can do a you know, a ten mile loop and
I'm talking five in and then kind of five around.
We say, you know, ten plus bears, you know, and
that's counting cubs with soals and stuff. But that's a

(34:07):
lot of bears in the same ecosystem, and I think,
and there's got to be more too. I think we
saw thirteen in one day, just kind of doing our
ten mile loop, you know, out and around, just kind
of hopping basins. You're riding ridge lines and you're looking
this way, and you're glassing you know, miles and miles
and miles. But within a you know, five square mile
you know radius, seeing thirteen bears out in the wide
open and the alpine feeding on berries, you know, just

(34:28):
like you say, they kind of g gravitate towards each other.
And I don't think it's necessarily because they want to
be around each other. I think it's just food sources.
Once there's a really really good food source in that area. Obviously,
this localized area that's five square miles, it has just
a ton of food sources, water source, cover everything that
bears need. And once you find that it's a really
you gotta hold it near and deer because that's that's
a really good spot. And then every year, you know,

(34:50):
year after year, we get back in there and we'll
harvest a couple of bears.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, well, we'll talk about wind here in a little bit.
But I think a bears nose and their keen sense
of smelling is so good like that you don't have
to They know exactly where the food's at. Right. Whether
they can get all because of a more mature bear
or whatnot is a different story. But they're gonna try
to eat on the fringe of that of that good
food source. So let's jump into That's a great segue
into this, because this is probably the most important topic

(35:16):
when it comes to fall bear hunting is food sources
and what elevation are you gonna hunt at? You know,
we talk about all this other stuff, but I would
say it's an accessory to this as far as finding
bears and figuring out how to kill them. Bears bears,
some of them have said to eat you know, fifteen
thousand calories a day and be on their feet, you know,
twenty hours a day to do so. You know, so

(35:36):
these bears are trying to fatten up. I've also heard
stats where they will eat quite a bit in the
spring and summer, but in the month of August alone,
they may put on twenty percent of their body weight
in that one month of August, which correlates very timely
to the beerries usually popping, and so I kind of
I kind of agree with all of that, but kind
of give me, let's roll all the way back to

(35:56):
let's say springtime. You know where they're food sources, grasses
and and you know, bark and you know, wild onions
or whatever may have in that area, whatever whatever's available,
some roots and yeah, yeah, whatever they can dig and
scrounge for. Versus we start to get into the fall,
like we were through through the beginning of the summer.
How does their food change and what food sources they

(36:17):
looking for? You know, berries are at the top, but
they are still looking and keying in on some other
stuff as well. But kind of walk through food sources
and elevation and you know we've we've touched on a
little bit, but the process to find them.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, so just in my northern Cascades is kind of
where I spend majority of my time. But I've drawn
you know, I've been on several other spring bear hunts.
I think you and I both drew the same unit
the same year. So kind of bounce to a lot
of questions, you know, off each other back then what
you see and where you're at, you know, but going
back to just my experience in the spring, they're so
unpredictable and we would see, you know, upwards of fifteen

(36:54):
to twenty bears a day from one glassing knob. And
I went with a guy that I just really just
admired lot was Shane Vandergeese and he's in you know,
up in the north side of s Gadget County, Wakam County,
I think, and just wanted with him and learned from
him just on the spring bear thing, and they're so
unpredictable and they're just there's everything is so green in
the spring, and I think the majority of the stuff
that we were watching was them just on grass and

(37:17):
then traveling these ridge tops, rolling rocks, eating grubs, eating
these bolsom roots, eating these wild onions, and then they're
just kind of cruising, kind of looking for We never
saw bears being you know, stationary, and that was kind
of more in the eastern side, and then we kind
of more moved towards in my experience where I've been
out scouting in the spring for mule deer and we're
talking early early June, late May, you know, Labor Day

(37:38):
or excuse me, Memorial Day is kind of when I
start scouting, you know, getting my lay of the land
and stuff, and we'll see bears at five thousand feet
in late May, early June, it's still snowing on us
and we're finding bears just kind of cruising country. I'm forgiving,
but I don't know exactly what they're eating that time
of year. It's just got to be you know, you
see their scat and it's just full of grass and

(37:59):
green stuff. And I'm sure they're doing the same thing
stumps and rolling rocks, neat and grubs. But I think
their primary target at that time in the spring kind
of moving into summer is is just kind of vegetation. Obviously,
they're omnivorous, so they're gonna be you know, if they
come across the fawn at that time. It's horribly sad
because we need to protect our mule deer, but of

(38:19):
course they're gonna you know, eat that as well. So
I think calling, I'm sure we're going to get into
this later, but calling, if you're spring bear, if you're
listening to this for spring bear help or advice or whatever,
calling is gonna be way more effective in my you know,
my scope here. Calling is more effective in the spring,
just because they're so opportunistic and they're coming out and
they're lethargic if you will, Laura Smith, and they're just

(38:41):
so dangerous, you know, vulnerable. You're gonna be more effective
in that springtime as you move into the fall time,
where I kind of spend more time in the woods,
just because our seasons are more Washington State, we don't
have a springtime anymore, so I have way more experience
in the fall. It is so much onto the berries
as primarily as I can say, like I've called it
a bear, I'm just trying to get him to stand up,

(39:03):
and alls I needed to do was stand up. It's
on one of our films and I used one of
your distress calls and try to get this bear to
stand up, and he just wouldn't do it. Just lift
his head up and look at me. I just need
him stand up so I could shoot him, and just
wouldn't do it. So that just tells me that their
primary focus is not really on they've kind of switched
out of that opportunistic If I, you know, find a
distressed ane, I'm going to run and chase it down.

(39:24):
I need the calories now when they're on a food
source in that fall time, that late summer like we
are right now August September. If they're on a food source,
that's really all they're going to care about. They're just
going to suck up those berries. And like you said,
I have personally harvested a bear that I have watched
in a meadow on a hillside for fourteen hours. It's
on film on our YouTube channel. I spot him right

(39:47):
at like five point forty five in the morning on
September eleventh, twenty twenty one. So I watched him, you know,
on that barry patch and now he's six miles away.
We make our way down there, set up camp, drop camp,
and then kind of get my stock on. And I
didn't shoot him until eight fifteen at night, So I
know that bear did not move. He's in the same
exact meadow unless there was a bait and switch in

(40:10):
the middle of my transition that I couldn't, you know,
keep an eye on that hillside. But there was a
bear in the same exact meadow that I was stalking on,
you know, fourteen fifteen hours later. So that's how food
driven these things are. Later in the fall, this was
September eleventh, So we're kind of getting into that phase
of the year where they're really trying to pack it on.
Like you said, they're eating fifteen thousand calories in a day,

(40:31):
and that bear, I could guarantee you he was pushing
that number and he was on his feet for twenty
hours a day, completely exposed wide open hillsides, just sucking
berries down. And I did a you know, fourteen fifteen
hour stock on him and was able to get over
there and get him killed. But with that being said,
that time of the year, I think it's just holistically
berries and that's in that country that I'm in. If

(40:54):
you it might not work in the area that you're
you're hunting, so it might not correlate all over Washington State.
You could have bears that are working salmon are you know,
kind of spawning you know, sakei or coho or you know,
pinks coming into the rivers that they do, and they
can be working on that. But as far as the
bears that we hunt and that we focused on, they're
just strictly berry bears at that time of the year,

(41:15):
working into that fall, and that's been my favorite time
of year to hunt them.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yep. I like no, No, I like it for the
same reason as you do. Is those bears, once they
find that food, they're not going to leave a whole lot,
which is a blessing anachurse. Because we talked about earlier
glassing a little bit like man there, if they're in
a wrong spot or they've found berries where you can't
see them, you're not going to pick them up for
a while because they're not going to leave. And that's
one thing I wanted to touch on a little bit.

(41:40):
And I don't know if you have those there. I've
always kind of categorized. We've got three different types of
berries here, like more in the Central Cascades. We've got
like the very low laying blueberries, which tastes more like
a real blueberry to me, but they're only about a
foot tall bush, not very tall. And then you got
your huckleberries that are maybe two to three feet tall.
And then we've actually got like blueberry trees is what

(42:01):
i'd call them. They got like this weird crushed velvet
type berry on them that are very good. Yeah, But
the one thing that I like when we do hunt
in the mountains is if I can get the when
those small short or blueberries are on, Like, that's my
favorite because those things can't hide from me if I'm
half in the glass and steeper and the steeper the better,

(42:24):
because that bear can't hide from me as well. But
if you start to get to like moderate slopes or
getting close to flatberry fields, like, it's very very tough
hide in, very very tough, and so like, you know,
those those short blueberries seem to hit just a little
bit later, more towards the end of August. But when
those are on, like that's very very easy bear hunting
because those things are a little more dense than huckleberries.

(42:46):
And so that's just one thing to keep in mind,
Like when those come on, like if you can prioritize
your hunt around those, like you may see more bears
in the right area, or they may be more visible
versus you know, and some of those patches of what
I call blueberry trees, I honestly don't know what they are,
but they're over the top of my head. Like, if
bears get into those patches, you may never see them.
But when you're on the ground or when you're on

(43:07):
the trails, like you can see that there's obviously a
lot of bear scat and bear sign and bear tracks
around them. You just can't see into them when you're
glassing across the canyon or whatnot.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yeah, are you talking about the blueberry trees that you're
talking Are they like creek bottom stuff you find a
lot in the creek bottoms yea, in like bottom of
burns bottoms a little. Well, you're talking about saskatoons and
those are kind of what right now you should be on.
But this year, like I was talking about on that
particular trail that we hunted last year on remember the
particular area that we hunted last year, the saskatoons right

(43:39):
now are already gone and they can get you know,
six to eight feet tall, droop and just be loaded
with those blueberries. But there they look like a blueberry,
but they're super tart, they're not nearly they're not a huggled,
they're not blue.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
So the saskatoons are what usually find the grouse around, right,
Like the grouse are usual to eat, So not a saskatoon.
This is actually like a velvety like a blueberry. It's
a light blue to start with, and if you like
rub your thumb on it, it kind of turns to
a dark blue. But where we're at, we've got yes,
eight to ten foot. But yeah, those those bears love
to kind of hang out in that they hit ripe

(44:10):
about the same time as the rest of them, but
they're they're more loaded up like in bunch berries, kind
of like those saskatoons, and yep, yep, they'll sit on
those things forever and not move, which drives me nuts.
Versus it's like, all right, at least if you're sitting
in one spot out in the small blueberries, you know
your glass is a lot more effective, or you can
turn them up. So do you find them on any

(44:30):
other food source or is it ninety nine percent berries
during the fall?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, it's it's ninety nine percent berries. And there's, like
you're saying, where we're talking about right now, there's so
many different types and species of berries that they kind
of ripen at different times, they like different times of
the year, and then as you move up elevations, that
kind of causes ripeness to kind of be all over
the place. And that's why you really just have to
have your finger on the pulse. If you're you know,
not going out all year long. You have no idea

(44:55):
what's going on. You're completely disconnected to social media and
forums and that. If you're just gonna take a person
out to the woods and just be like, hey, go
find a bear in August fifteenth, you're gonna have a
little bit of trouble there because you don't know what's
going on. You don't know where you need to be
focusing on should I be high right now? Should I
be low right now? Where do I need to focus
my time and energy on. So I think it's a
benefit to be out and kind of understand the ecosystems,

(45:17):
learn the berries when they're going to kick off, keep
your eye on the snow lines and elevation lines. You're
just helping yourself out. You're keeping so many more tools
in your toolbox. It's going to help you be successful.
So even let's just say you don't have a big
bear hunt planned until September first Labor Day weekend, you
could still get out and kind of check berries, check
snow lines, and glass. If you signed a bear, awesome,
you know even better, you might even find a bear.

(45:39):
Like last week and a buddy of mine, Austin, found
a bear at you know, sixty four hundred feet and
he was just on grass. The blueberries weren't right yet,
the huckleberryes weren't right yet. He was just there on grass.
Probably not going to stick around very long. Would be
a very hard bear to stock and shoot. If that
commute was going to be, you know, three plus hours long,
he's going to be gone by then. But once you
find them stationary on that food source, wh is huckleberries, blueberries,

(46:01):
and there's all sorts of different species of blueberries, like
you're talking about, and they're going to be kicking off
at different times, you know, closer smaller to the ground,
that snow is on them for a lot longer. If
they're only six inches tall. And I know exactly what
you're talking about. Those blueberries are the best. They're like,
they taste the best, they're the sweetest. And just imagine
if that snow is just on them for that much longer,
because they're only six inches off the ground, that snowpack

(46:23):
is going to be there until July at seventy two
hundred feet maybe even you know, July fifteenth or something.
And then as you move to that berry bush the
Saskatoon that's eight feet tall, that's exposed by March, you know,
so that causes ripeness to be all over the place.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yep. Yeah. Now I food source is by far the
most important, and it's pretty easy. You just have to
figure out what elevation they're on, you know, I would
say that one percent what I've seen in the fall
is you know, more avalanche shoots, steep stuff they might
be eating on, like the brush that's on the edge.
But I would never focus my hunt on like avalanche

(46:58):
shoots or stuff like that. Try to find a bear, like,
You're better off figuring out the elevation of the berries.
And one tip or tactic, whether they like it or not,
is people that like the hike all of our mountain
trails will do hiking reports. So let you know where
they found berries and what point of the trail. And
you're like, all right, I can quickly jump on Northwest

(47:19):
Hiker and figure out who hiked what trail. It might
not be in the same area, but it might be
a general area where I'm like, oh, they're eating berries
at forty eight hundred feet because they like can do
berry reports, and so you can get some good information
without leaving your seat.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Oh absolutely, man. There's all combined with the scouting and WTA,
Washington Trails Association, Northwest Hiker. You can just go to
a Barr report because they love to tell everybody about
their berries that they ate, and they'll take pictures of
them and stuff, and you're like, great, I'm research that trail.
Let's just say it's the Phelps trail. You research that
trail and be like, oh, it starts at thirty eight,
and you know the peak they hiked to is at

(47:54):
fifty one. There was berries three quarters away to the top.
Now you got some ammo in your pocket without leaving
your seat. You can be really effective and just be
kind of squirrely, you know, look at you use all
your resources and and I'm absolutely guilty of that. If
I want to learn a new trail system, I can
go to that trail on there and then go through
the history of reports and be like, hey, there's berries
here all right, that that trail might be worth checking out,
And then you drop a pin and go check it

(48:16):
out in the summer see if it. You know, oh man,
that's gonna be a a nice big basin full of
berries one day or you know, in the fall. So absolutely, man,
it's a great tip. We've talked about that tons of times.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, and then use an e scouting to find food
sources a lot of times if you're if you're good
at Google. You know, when I'm looking for elk cunting, like,
I'm like, man, I do not want to walk through
that brushole, right, Like that's that's brush versus this is
clean outpine versus this is a this is you know,
false alpine. It's really just a big brushy pile. Like
that's where you want to try to focus on, Like

(48:47):
can you glass into that? You know where where are
the bear is going to be visible? That's where avalanche
shoots do kind of come in. I love I love berry.
You know, elevations that are at a berry but then
are broken up by vertical lines because those bears have
to you know, they will expose themselves in them. And
so you can look at some of that. Once you
know what you're looking at on scouting, whatever you're using

(49:09):
you know, Google Earth, whatever mapping software, and you you'll
be able to start to see different bands of barris
or bush type and you're gonna keep that in mind
as well. And then once again, if you go back
to hiking websites, they've damn near covered every square inch
of these forests, and you can usually get like a
picture across the canyon and like, all right, that time

(49:30):
of year, like what's that look like from this point,
and is that gonna be a good spot to glass
for bears?

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Absolutely? Man, And I've done loads of this, I've done
videos on it and just kind of testing myself, you know,
all e scout a spot first. There's all sorts of
different tools and stuff you can use. Onyx has stuff,
you know, go Hunt has stuff, Google Earth has stuff.
You can use all these kind of different imagery sources.
But what I like to play around with is just
historical imagery on go Hunt, where you can kind of

(49:58):
go back years and stuff as well and check dates
and exact dates that you're looking for, and then go
back in there and previously look at the year to
year and then you can just correlate it to this
year and you can see if it was a drought.
You know, I'm gonna go back to twenty sixteen, because
let's just say twenty twenty three we're expecting a drought.
Go back to your last drought year. Like in the
North Cascades, we had a pretty pretty bad drought in
twenty fifteen. I know that because I was in there.

(50:20):
And then I'm gonna go back to twenty fifteen, and
then I'm gonna look at the drought year, and then
you can just go to the exact dates that you're
looking to go hunting and just pick it apart and
see that, Oh my gosh, and that drought year. The
berries were ripe here, The berries were ripe here here,
and you start dropping pins on these basins that were
are going to be ripe. And I think EAT scouting
is super effective. It's never as effective as getting your
boots on the ground and getting out there. That being said,

(50:43):
we've found dozens of trailheads and dozens of trails and
basins and places that we have found and harvested bears
on because of being effective on the computer and ES scouting.
I don't know, really, what's one of your favorite tools
for ES scouting? What's your trick for bears? Do you
have any things tally four bears that you like to use?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Not really, I mean I just so I always relate
it back to spots. You know, I grew up hunting
the goat rocks like that was my intro to high
mountain stuff. And so like where did we see him
at what times? And then I kind of relate that
back like does that brush look similar? You know, trying
to figure out where the snow line's at, but you
know we still have snow in the goat rocks in
some places. But it's really just trying to time those berries.

(51:23):
Like as much as I would love to e scout,
you just have to figure out on the ground, like
where those berries are at at that time, and that's
elevation you need to hunt. And if you need to
hunt that elevation, I start to look at basins that
are a little more open at that elevation or where
you know, because one one basin maybe have timber at
that level, but then a different basin, you know, three
more to the north might be might be berries at

(51:44):
that elevation. So I'm really just trying to put myself
into a spot where I'm going to be at the
right elevation but can still see.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, I don't think there's any way to just replace
the glassing berry bowls that you know are berry bulls.
Once you know that there's a food source in there
that the bears are going to be on, whether it
be from previous you know, years past experience, whether it
be a trail report for someone saying that there's berries
on there, or just firsthand knowledge of you hiking up
in there checking berries and verifying that there's berries in

(52:14):
that basin, sitting back in glass in that basin, there's
going to be a bear that room's in there. Almost
I would almost say to you know, guarantee that if
you have a berry basin that eventually you're going to
find a bear in there. So just kind of knowing
these things, whether it be from like we said, you know,
trail reports, eascounting, or your boots on the ground work
find the berries, that's really the ticket here.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah. Yeah, let's touch on terrain a little bit. We've
hammered this, hammered this home that food sources are really

(52:57):
what they're after, and terrain is just like a second.
But I like the personally hunt steeper train. What type
of train do you like to hunt? And how come.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
You know? I'm all over the I'm all over the
board here. So as we as we progress early season,
I can find myself on some on some trails, hiking
trails that are next to creeks and rivers, just because
they're the first ones to ripen up. So I'm not
really picky or I'm not going to be you know,
I only hunt step or I only hunt flat, I
only hunt mild. I'm just kind of going where the
bears are going to be, and in the early season

(53:29):
that tends to be a little bit more flatter down
on the basins, down in the bottoms excuse me, not basins,
but drainages where you got creeks and rivers and stuff
like that, because that's going to be kind of ripened first,
and as we move up, as we progress to this season,
we'll kind of move into that mild train. And I
have I kind of have my elevator of spots where
I'm down at the bottom in August first, and then

(53:50):
we kind of just progress, you know, two, three four,
five hundred feet per week. Five hundred feet a week
is seems to be a little bit accurate, especially if
you get these super hot days like brigs now, where
weekend to weekend, we're just kind of trickling that five
hundred feet until we get to labor day, and by
labor day you're at the tops, you're at seven thousand.
Most of the time you're at sixty eight, you know,
seven th seventy two, towards those tops where you're gonna

(54:13):
see bears on berries up at the tops of those
peaks and the North Cascades. That's our top. So if
you're listening from other states, that's our tops. That's probably
not that's city, you know for Colorado and stuff, but
those are our tops. But yeah, as the season progresses,
I'm just going with him. My favorite time of the
year is that labor time, labor day time frame, and
they do tend to be on that super steep terrain

(54:33):
where the huckleberries the blueberries are really really thick, and
they just don't move. They stand in those fields and
they're just vacuum them up. You might catch them, you know,
going down into the timber to take a little nap
in the shade, and then they will come back, you know,
they'll come right back onto a berry patch if they
have a good food source, if they're feeling secure, they're
not being buggered up. You know, they're not hearing humans
hollering and stuff like that, which sometimes on trails that

(54:56):
we use, you know, popular trails, they do. So when
humans start acting, you know, start actively, the suns up
and they start moving down these trails, those bears will
go those bears, excuse me, We'll go tuck away. And
then once the hikers are done for the day, they'll
come back out in the evening and they'll just vacuum
all night for you know, twelve hours or whatever. But yeah,
it just really depends. Like I'm not picky. I'll just
be wherever they are and I'll just kind of follow

(55:17):
that berry, that berry line, if you will, up the elevation.
As soon as as it starts ripening up high, I'm
moving up high with them.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah. Now, I agree, you got to hunt where the
bears are out, which is so cliche we say that
all the time, But you gotta hunt where the bears.
I just like, if I'm going to go to a spot,
the steeper the better. It seems like they can't hide
as much, you know, the flatter that face is across
the canyon from me or across the finger dge from me, like,
the better chance I I you know, maybe it's just
a confidence level. I know I've seen a bear if

(55:46):
it was there right versus versus you know, if it's
flat or roly, there's there's a lot more spots to hide,
and I'm I'm less confident, I'm less you know, confident
to move because I don't want to leave a bear
to to go somewhere else. But if it's steep there,
there's a very slim chance that that thing is able
to hide from me.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Absolutely, man, I totally agree with you and kind of
didn't really think about that. Just kind of giving them
hiding spots if there's folds, if it's kind of steep,
and then it kind of peters out and gives them
a nice little bench. They could be on that bench for,
like we just said, twelve hours and you never see them.
So the steeper the country kind of does make it easier.
And kind of just going back through my you know,
pocketbook of spots, it's primarily steep spots in that September

(56:25):
time frame, late August early September. The steeper the better
for us. And it's probably has something to do with
that where they don't have any kind of folds and
stuff to get away from and to hide into. But
that time of year, they're just they're out for so
long you feel comfortable that if you're looking at a
hillside for ten fifteen minutes you're going to catch a glimpse,
cause yeah, they're always moving. They might be in a

(56:47):
little fold or a roll or something, but for the
most part, they're kind of just you know, modoring around
within a twenty feet circle or something.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
You know, yep, yeah, So what do you think about
water when it comes to fall bear hunting? Do you
place yourself on water? Do you not paying any attention?
Is it a requirement? Like what do you How does
water enter the equation for for fall bear for you?

Speaker 2 (57:10):
I think maybe a little bit earlier, when it's scorching hot,
they might wanna be you might want to focus a
little bit closer to water. But I mean, I've never
prioritized that, and I'm just being one hundred percent honest.
Never prioritized it. Never made sure I'm in a basin
with water. But in the North Cascades in Washington State,
water is plentiful, you know, on a on a trail

(57:31):
system that we use. That when I've I keep going
back to when I mentioned earlier in the podcast where
we saw thirteen in a day, there is no water
source for us. They might they might have some of
the basins that we don't know of, but on these
trail systems that we're motoring in on. We we have
to carry, you know, to I carry two forty eight
now deans and then a thirty two, So we're going
in with over one hundred ounces of water. So going in,

(57:53):
you just know that it's gonna be a hot one,
it's gonna be scorcher, and we're not getting water on
this trail. So I don't necessarily know if that I
would imagine that the bears are going to have them.
The bears that we're seeing, they have some that they
know where to go to. But up in they prioritize
food over over water as well, so they'll travel to it.
They'll travel to it, I'm sure. But no, speaking of
water me personally, I don't prioritize it in the fall in, Yeah,

(58:19):
don't prioritize it.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I don't either, And I don't know if it's a
product or a byproduct of us both being from the
Pacific Northwest where I have fall bear hunted. Is there's
water in every drainage exactly we've got We've got, you know,
we always have great like moisture recoup, you know, every night,
like the ground even when it's in the middle of summer,
the ground is going to be damp when you wake up. Now,
I don't know whether it's like the deer versus elk conversation,

(58:43):
where a deer can get the moisture out of the
food they eat versus an elk needs to go to water.
I'm unsure on bear. But but yeah, I don't think
at least the places I've seen bears start the day
and where they end the day, like, all right, I
watch that bear for whatever, fourteen hours and the thing
never had to go get water. Is it going there
in the middle of the night. But yeah, I think
some when you're listening outside of Washington, you may have

(59:05):
a little different situation. And I do know that they
will require water daily, especially in the hot temperature, so
water may play an important part, but here in Washington
not so.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Much absolutely, And like you touched on, I'm right there
with you. Everything's got water in Washington, especially the alpine
basins and everything that we've gone down to and killed
bears and impact out will find, you know, little puddles
or a trickle or something like that. But last year
the bear that I actually kind of goofed up on,
he was at least eighteen hundred feet down from water.

(59:39):
Excuse me, he was up eighteen hundred two thousand feet
from the nearest water source. But at you know, for
an animal a bear, that that's nothing. They're going to
just bail down in the middle of the night, go
get some water and they're kind of come right back
up to that food. And that one I'm pretty certain
because you know, I was on a it was just
a crazy spot to be in. But that bear was
completely exposed Rocky Sale shale cliffs and then just right

(01:00:00):
in the middle of the rocky Shell cliffs, it was
just this barry patch that he never would have expected
to see a bear there, but I did and ended
up shooting at him. I guess missed him. Crazy turn
of events. But that bear was completely away from water,
So I don't prioritize it. You know, they're gonna they're
gonna prioritize food over it, and then they're gonna go
travel to their little honey hole of water that they

(01:00:20):
that they know where to find it. So I don't
think if you're looking at maps, you need to be like, oh,
I need to I need to have water in a basin.
I don't think that's gonna ring true to us, but
I could be wrong. I've just never prioritized it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, how do you how does weather? You know, we
once again coming back to Washington, we get some crazy
weather even in the in the you know, the summer,
early fall, absolutely, and how do you how does the
weather affect your hunts? What have you found? You know,
rain storms? He how does that affect it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I I personally think it affects us more than it
affects them. Obviously, they're wild animals. They don't. They don't
really care that they live through it year round. We don't. Yeah,
it might suck when you got a thunderstorm and it's
and it's dump and rain on you. But I don't
really necessarily think they do, because I've seen them out
in it. You know. Last year I had actually filmed
my wife on her first bear hunt, and we were
watching this bear almost shot it, and then a cub

(01:01:14):
came out from you know, behind it, and there was
thunder and lightning, raining, and that bear just didn't care.
They're just standing right there on top of us. Yeah,
we were like maybe two minutes before the storm really
got it going and it was on top of our head.
But you know, it was We're in the in this
big drainage, thunder and lightning was cracking and going, and
they were just still outfeeding. So they're just gonna do

(01:01:34):
animal stuff and as far as the heat goes, doesn't
seem to bother them. I filmed a bear midday, two
o'clock in the afternoon. We're me and my wife are
in the shade, and I just watched this bear cruise
in this hillside, eating, eat and eating, and then kind
of comes down, goes through the creek, didn't stop the drink,
just goes right through it and then just goes back
to feeding. So and it had to have been on

(01:01:55):
a hundred plus triple digits for sure. It was the
same day that we ended up harvesting her her suit
for cool bear. And she shot it at you know,
three and the clock in the afternoon, so again a
hundred degrees. And he did not stop eating from the
moment I saw him at like seven in the morning
all the way until when she killed them at like
three in the afternoon. So just after everything kind of
lined up and we kind of got a shot going

(01:02:16):
for him, we watched them feed. August had to have
been fourth or fifth August fourth or fifth hundred degrees
outside and they don't stop, you know, the obviously, if
they need to, they will, But I don't think when
they're on food sources and they're doing what they have
to do and the weather doesn't bother them. I think
that's just my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
No, I agree spring bear get bothered a little bit
more by rain. They seem to kind of tuck in.
I think fall bear that we've seen, they'll they'll ride
out a weather storm. But still I still feel like
just following maybe a rain event, if you get one
of those fall rain events, like the backside, if you
got some good weather on the backside, like that's the
best time to be out there, they just seem to
be on their feet. They're they're just on their feet

(01:02:56):
more out in the open. Maybe they don't want to
get as wet in the brush, so they seem to
kind of get out in the opening, back to that
food source and kind of stick out a little.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Bit more absolutely, And I think maybe something to do
with that is that the duration of those storms could
vary so much differently from spring that that thing can
last you know, hours, as you know, been caught in
one and have to ride it out then to the fall.
You could have thunder and lightning, pouring down rain, you know,
one minute, and literally five minutes later it's blue sky again.
So I think maybe they just like, I'm just gonna

(01:03:26):
keep doing my thing. This one might not last long.
It's going to pass quickly. But I've been through them.
I've been through hell storms, thunder lightning, you know, one
hundred degree heat, and been watching bears and all that,
all those weathers, those weather kind of variations, and I
really truly don't think that it bothers them at all.
It's going to bother us more if you're getting soaked
or getting haled on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Yeah, for sure. So moral of the story hunt hunt
through all weather, which kind of comes is a good
segue into the next question, what time of day? And
so we're dealing when we're talking fall bear, we're talking
August to all the way to the beginning of November,
when our seasons finally closed down. Here, what time of
day are you hunting or you find the most productive

(01:04:04):
throughout that time.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I'm you're not gonna like this, and not many listeners are,
but I'm gonna say first light, and it kills me
to say it. Because in August, I can sleep man,
I could sleep you around, I could be a bear.
But in August it's you know, you got to be
up at four thirty, and especially if you've got to
get to a travel to a glassing knob. But that's
you know, on weekends and stuff, you go to work

(01:04:26):
and you get up early, and the blue collar guys
are up early all week and then you got to
a weekend and you're like, yeah, I would like to
sleep in, but when fall bear man like, you just
can't do it. And that's just like the truth bottom
of my heart. You gotta be up glassing at first light.
They're so active and time and time and time again,
I've harvested majority of the bears in the first thing
in the morning. They're gonna be active throughout the day.

(01:04:47):
But if you really want to catch them, especially in
that September when they're up in those blueberries, they're gonna
be they're gonna feed out from that. You know, they're
mostly active at night and then actually in that time
of year, they're active throughout the day. But if you
really catch them, like Jason, I'll start my answer up
first light, the first right right, the first thing in
the morning, man, my favorite time absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
I think you catch those bigger bears out maybe in
the middle, but you know, with that said, like anytime
during the fall can produce and so if you're out
there targeting bear, like you just need to hunt all day.
But yeah, I think morning is just is prime. And
then around home where it's like industrial timberlands, My absolute
favorite time to be out there is in the evening,

(01:05:31):
right as the shade starts to hit clear cuts, like
you know, when you'd expect deer and elk to start
coming back out, like that transition from it being too
damn hot to just starting to cool off. It seems
as like when we pick up the majority of like
the Timberland bears.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Yeah, that's good. That's good to know. That's you know,
I don't hunt really the Timberland stuff, but from the
experience that we, like just the first light thing, just
kind of majority of the bears get spotted. But like
you said, they're they're they're active throughout the entire day.
Back to that story where I said I watched that
bear for fourteen hours last year, Like I can go
back and look at the phone scoat footage and it's

(01:06:06):
like five forty seven in the morning where he's you know,
stationary in that spot. I first bought him and then
when the phone scoat footage of me killing him is
like eight fifteen at night. So yeah, you didn't have
to wake up at daylight to go spot that bear
because he didn't move. But we have seen bears that
you know, you catch it first light and then they're
slipping into the timber at seven to go take a
four hour nap. You might not have known that it

(01:06:26):
was there if you, you know, slept in a little bit.
But I'm gonna stick to the guns there and just say,
like we prefer in that North Cascade stuff that you're
going to see a majority of the activity right at
first light at least most the bears are going to
be out, and then yeah, you might slip into the
timber and take a nap, and of course they can
come back out, so just check some balances there. I
prefer the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
And then kind of our last question, my last question
for you, do you any calling for bears in the fall,
And I'm gonna play I have to ask the call
question just because it's it's my job, but I'm curious
what you do as far as running a call in
the fall.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Yeah, so there. I mean, if you want to do
the call stuff, I gotta tug the I gotta you know,
plug the old Doug Bows he's a Washington resident too.
You've had him on the podcast. Just awesome, dude. He's
got a phone call app. He not to take away
from your business, Jason, yours, yours are the best. Uh,
but he's got an app that you can use and
and and run those predator calls just on a in
a bluetooth speaker. But I did run your predator distress

(01:07:22):
call last season. I always keep it in my binyal
harness after kind of like the lampers, uh, you know,
on the spring stuff, he kind of mentioned that he
keeps one in there and maybe not just to actually
call him in, but to get him to stop or
to get him to come back out of the timber.
I think it's a it's a genius idea. So I
adopted that and I actually got to use it last year.
So to answer your question, no, I'm not gonna do
a calling, you know, set for a bear just because

(01:07:44):
I've I have I don't have experience with it. But
Doug's gonna give you a different answer. Doug's he's got
a book on it and he's got an app, so
he's he's found it very effective. Me personally, in our experience,
we've never done like a calling sequence or a stand
specifically to call a bear into But I have used
it now to get a bear to stand up, like
I was talking about, and we have it on film.

(01:08:05):
You guys can go watch it. I'm just ripping on
this predator call to even get this bear to acknowledge
me to stand up, to take four steps out into
the open. But he just wouldn't do it. He's just
like looking right down at the call. I'm on the rifle,
I'm on, I'm ready to take a step. If he
just took a step, I could smoke him. But he's
just behind this big boulder and you could just see
his head and he's just panting like a dog, just

(01:08:26):
tongue out. He's just panting, and then his head would
go down, and I'm like, Zach, what are we gonna do?
I'm not gonna I'm getting fried right here. You know,
it's August, August sixth or something. It's you know, nine
in the morning at this point, and we're just on
this bear. We watched him for a half hour or
so and just kind of get him to get a shot,
and so Zach's like, I'm gonna rip on the call.
So I tossing my call and he just rips and rips,
and the footage is crazy because his head would just

(01:08:48):
pop up and he just looked down at us and
he'd just go back to panting. And then after two
seconds of the call, he just lay back down and
then we're like, okay, let's try it again. In five minutes,
the same thing. He just lifted his head up and
then he and then when he started moving, we thought
he was gonna like come down and check us out. Nope,
opposite direction, goes away from the predator call, away from
the call and just into the timbers more and ended

(01:09:10):
up giving me a shot and was able to harvest
that bear. But just to plug back the food source
that we've just really prioritized this whole podcast episode. Once
they're on a food source and they're happy, I don't
really think that there's much you can do to pull
them away from that, especially if they've been feeding for
ten eight hours and they're just plump full of berries.

(01:09:32):
They're pretty happy campers and if you maybe if you
caught them, you know, like if Washington State had I'm
sure spring bear hunting predator calls are very very useful.
But as far as my experience goes, in the fall,
when you have these bears that are on a solid
food source of berries or you know, of huckleberries or
whatever it may be, it's gonna take some real hard
work and a really curious bear to pull him out

(01:09:55):
of that to go down and look for a rabbit.
You know, That's my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
And that's where really down. Like for me as being
an efficient hunter, I feel like your time is way
better utilized hiking and looking into those berries sources and
setting up for thirty five to forty five minutes calling
in an area, because, as you said, these bears are
no longer wanting to chase their food. It's sitting on
a vine where they don't have to move, they don't
have to chase it, they don't have to expend any energy.

(01:10:20):
But with that said, we do have we have quite
a few buddies you know, around home. Our fall bear
hunting or any hunting around here is your typical You
pull up to a landing, you walk off the edge
and you glass right, but a lot of times when
you're there you can hear something break and brush down
below us. And I've had multiple buddies in the last
couple of years just like calf distress call, and they've
all killed bears, like right off the landing. So I

(01:10:43):
would say, like, if you if there's no other option,
or if it's available to you, or if it's a
if it's a good setup, like there's no there's no
harm to be done, it can still be very effective.
But I just feel like if I'm in the mountains
where there are berries on and the bears know that
the berries are on, like I'm better off spending my
time and effort like getting to their and glossing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Yeah, I have to fully agree with you, man, it's
and just from first hand experience now, that bear absolutely
wanted nothing to do with us, and we were sounding
pretty juicy with that call. I may add it's pretty good,
you know, but he just he wasn't having it. Man.
He just didn't didn't care, didn't have a care in
the world, could care less about us just ripping down there,
and we sounded like a nice juicy rabbit or whatever.

(01:11:26):
That thing's supposed to be, but I didn't want didn't
want it, man, that's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
So uh no, Jeff, thanks a lot for coming on here.
Tell everybody how they can find out more what you
got going on and adventures you're you're taking on.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
Yeah, man, appreciate you having me first and foremost. Appreciate
your friendship and all you've done for us, and just
what you've allowed me to text you and answer my
stupid questions any given day. Uh So, I really appreciate that. Man.
I appreciate this chance to come on the show. But
you can find anything p and Wild at p and
wil dot com. P and Wild has a YouTube channel
releasing a lot of cool hunts, and we did a
wholming I'll Hunt in Montana deer hunt that's on our

(01:12:01):
YouTube channel now, and so you can find us on YouTube,
and then of course on all your social media platforms,
Facebook and Instagram, and primarily just in our website PML
dot com. You can find all that information. So appreciate it, man.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Yeah, I appreciate having you on. Thanks for sharing all
your black bear knowledge. Falling in good luck out there.
I know you're probably chumping to get out there and
chase one down. So good luck on a ventures.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Yes, YouTube man right around the corner. Can't wait. Have
a good season, guys, I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Take care.

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Ep. 45: Fall Bear with Jeff Roberts

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