Encore: S04 Ep 09 - Alexis’s Controlling Family

This week, we’re in session with Alexis, whose parents are pressuring her to get married and have children on their timeline instead of hers. We help her to set healthy boundaries with her family.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should
Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapists advice
column for the Atlantic.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,
and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.
And this is Dear Therapists.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Each week we invite you into a real session where
we help people confront the problems in their lives and
then give them actionable advice and have them report back
to let us know what happened when they did what
we suggested.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
So sit back and welcome to today's session. This week,
a woman whose parents are pressuring her to get married
and have a baby, wonders how to set boundaries with
her family.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
When I was twenty three, he would say, oh, no,
she doesn't need to get married yet. She's so young,
she has time. And then you know, in a couple
of years after that, it's all you're too old, you
don't have time.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
First a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.
It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is
not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment
by submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia
use it in part orn full, and we may edit
it for length and clarity. In the session, you'll hear
all names have been changed for the privacy of our guests.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Hi Laurie, Hi Guy.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I took a little peek in our mailbox because
I couldn't help it, and I saw that we have
a lot of letters, and I'm really curious to hear
what we're going to be talking about today.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, today we have a letter about setting boundaries, and
it goes like this, deotherapists, I need help navigating the
pressures that my family is putting on me and my
partner as I get older. When I was younger, they
expected me to study hard. During that time, I met
my partner, who is the same age as me. We

(01:46):
have now been together ten years and are approaching our thirties.
My brother got married, and now my parents are pressuring
me to push my partner to propose so we can
get married and have a baby. My partner and I
have discussed this and it will come, but he's not
ready just yet. I've tried to set boundaries with my
parents and to listen to their concerns. However, they continue

(02:07):
to bring up the issue, which pressures me and causes
me to fight with my partner in order to try
to please my parents. I'm exhausted by trying to get
my parents to be quiet about it. I have incredible
anxiety about this, and while I know my family loves me,
I feel incredibly judged by them and like I'm disappointing them.
I'd love some help getting my parents to stop asking
me about this once and for all. Thanks Alexis Well.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Alexis is really caught in the middle of her past
and her present. She's still in this phase where intellectually,
as an adult, she says, I know I need to
live my life for me and not do things solely
to please my parents. But on the other hand, she
still feels that pressure to make sure that, as she said,

(02:53):
she's not disappointing them. And I think it's great that
she and her partner have already discussed this and they
together have come to a consensus. So it's not one
of those letters of one of us wants to move
forward and have children and the other one doesn't. They
seem to be on the same page. The question is
how can she get that voice out of her head
around I don't want to disappoint my parents.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's interesting because they've been together for ten years, and
the parents might be thinking ten years, why aren't you
married yet? And I don't know how much she's had
a full discussion with her parents about what really their
concerns are. Are they worried he actually won't or are
they just worried that it looks bad. So it'd be
interesting to hear more about what those discussions have been

(03:38):
like so far.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
And I think the important thing here is that she
doesn't really need to explain to her parents why things
are the way they are. I think what the parents
need to know is that she and her partner feel
good about whatever they've decided, because that's very different from
her having to justify to her parents we're doing it
this way because I agree.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
And I would like to confirm indeed that she does
feel good about it, whether she's fully on board with waiting.
But let's go talk to her and find out.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yes, let's go talk to her. You're listening to Dear
Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a
short break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
And I'm Guy Wench and this is Dear Therapists. So hi, alexis,
welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Guys, we'd like you to start, perhaps by telling us
a little bit about the relationship, how you met your boyfriend,
how things went, and how things are right now.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
So I met my boyfriend when I was about eighteen
years old, so I was a white tressing and I
met him through that. And our own families have their
own complex relationship that neither of us knew at the
time of a meeting. So that complex relationship wasn't something
my dad as extremely happy about it at the time.

(05:02):
But as my dad got to know my boyfriend, he
definitely softened to him. He's a really kind and gentle person,
and so my dad really took to that and our
relationship got a lot stronger as a result. We are
in the process of now building our first home and
moving in together, but that has created some of its
own complexities with my family, particularly gain my dad, who

(05:25):
feels that we've been together long enough that maybe our
relationship should look a little different to what it currently does.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Can you tell us more about the complicated relationship.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
So our parents had known each other when they were younger.
Both our dads had worked in the same industry and
they had clashed a little bit in that industry, and
so my dad just didn't like that idea that I
was dating a guy that he had clashed with their father.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
And did your boyfriend's dad also have concerns like that
at the beginning?

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Probably My boyfriend's dad's not much of a share a talker.
My parents and his parents still don't talk. I don't think.
I think I could probably count on one hand the
number of times we've all been in the same room
at the same time.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
How have you and your boyfriend talked about the fact
that there is this tension between both sets of parents.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
When I was younger, I think it used to concern
me a lot more. For him, it was more of
a will work it out. We love each other when
it's our relationship, and that's what matters. I should say
that we both get along with each other's family, and
that took a little bit of time. My family was
more open to welcoming him. His family were a little

(06:42):
less open. I don't know if that was because of
the complex relationship or just because of his own complex
relationship with his own family. It's just that when you
think about having a wedding, I don't think anything terrible
would happen, but I get anxious that there would be
some uncomfortableness or awkwardness. But I do have trust in
my family that if it was a big celebratory event,

(07:04):
that they would be my supports and be able to
talk and play nice.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Basically, what has it been like to talk with your
boyfriend about the fact that your families don't get along.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
To be honest, uncomfortable and I think we avoid it regularly.
For me, it definitely feels stressful and anxiety provoking at times.
He's a more laid back person, so when I have
talked about it with him, he's very much like, it'll

(07:39):
be fine. I wouldn't worry about it, but I do
worry about it.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
What are you worried about, specifically?

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Just whether it would be uncomfortable when we do have
family events that I would lack our whole family to
be at, whether everyone will sort of get along, whether
they'll say something that will upset somebody else.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Who are the characters that you're most concerned about their
two sets of parents. You get along with his, he
gets along with yours, his mom.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
And dad probably upsetting my mom and dad, or my
mom and dad somehow upsetting his mom and dad. And
I wonder if that's just like a warrior I have
in my mind, that wouldn't actually happen. It's been so
long since they'd had any conflict. Almost twenty years ago
they had their conflict.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
How do you feel about the fact that this happened
so long ago, and that the two of you have
been together for ten years, and that your parents, and
by your I mean both sets of parents have not
been able to rise to the occasion and somehow mend
whatever they need to mend, or at least find some

(08:49):
way of being civil with each other.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Now, as my brothers have partners and their partner's families
come to different things, it feels less normal. But it
felt normal at that because I didn't have a lot
to model it off. In a young relationship. We go
to their house for their occasions, you know, we go
to my house for my occasions, and that just felt

(09:12):
normalized to me.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
But I don't think it feels normal because you think
about it a lot and you worry about it a lot.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
I think about it now, and I worry about it now.
We recently had my brother's engagement and then his wedding,
and seeing everyone getting along nicely and laughing and happy,
that makes me worry. I don't even think we've allowed
them the opportunity to try and do so. And I

(09:42):
think that would be because I get worried that something
will happen and that I will have to have an
argument with my family defending my partner or my partner's family,
so I haven't allowed it.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
How much do you think your parents leave are getting
from you this mixed message about I want you to
make this easier on the one hand, but I actually
would rather avoid the entire thing for as long as
possible because I'm worried that it will cause a big problem.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, I am giving those mixed messages.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Other than by not bringing it up, in what other
ways do you think you might have communicated that hesitancy.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
The avoid part is more strong for me. Don't bring
it up, don't talk about it, don't invite to birthdays
or Christmas events. We all live in the same area,
and I know that they have run into each other
and they have actually, you know, said hello to each
other or waved at each other. And so there is
some give there. But when I ever think about them

(10:51):
running into each other, it makes me so anxious that
when my family started shopping at a different shopping location,
I was happy that they weren't running into each other.
The times they have bumped into each other haven't been terrible,
but I still avoid trying to bring that together or
have some sort of repair in those relationships.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
And just to clarify, the worry is that there'll be
some kind of bruhaha between the two parents, or that
there will be an issue with the parents, and then
that will create an issue with you and your boyfriend.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
There will be an issue with the parents, and that
will create an issue for either me or my boyfriend,
or just an issue that I have to somehow fix.
I don't care if they don't get along per se.
I just care if they say something that I have
to then deal with.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Why would you have to be the one to help
the adults get along with each other?

Speaker 3 (11:46):
That is my role in my family. My role in
the family is the peacekeeper, the responsible one, the helper.
So an example might be when we were at my
brother's wedding, I think someone had made a comment to
my partner, oh, it is your turn to get married now,
and my partner had said something like, oh, not yet,

(12:09):
and so someone fed that back to my dad, and
then my dad comes up to me a week later
and says, your boyfriend said this at the wedding. And
he says it in a tone that makes you feel
that he's so disappointed. And then I feel anxious. I

(12:30):
feel like I'm letting people down and that I have
to justify where we're at and why we're at where
we're at.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Can I ask is there a part of you that
feels a little bit like your parents in the sense
of are you comfortable with where you're at in the
relationship with your boyfriend? You said you're both approaching your thirties.
Is there a part of you that wonders, is my
boyfriend going to be ready?

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Sometimes there is, but more and more over the past
couple of years, we're having those more serious conversations, which,
again I'd like to avoid big conversations, but we have
been having them. And he wants to wait to get
married to when we live in our house and that'll
be all things going well at the end of this year.
And he just says, I have this idea of that

(13:21):
moment in my mind when we get engaged in what
that looks like, and it involves us being in our
home and starting our life on our path in our time.
So I think when I initially pictured all of those
things when I was younger, everything was earlier than what
it is now. I was told you do this by

(13:45):
this age, and this is the order you do things in,
and you don't stray from that line. But I'm also
very happy with my relationship, and I think that's more
important to me than this idea that my parents or
my dad might have in his head of what happiness
in relationships looks like at different stages.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
You said you avoid these conversations with your boyfriend and
that you don't really share with him all of these
worries that you have. And I'm curious about why not,
Because right now, in your head, Alexis, it falls to
you to be the helper and the fixer of everything,
and I'm curious about why you don't share with him. Hey,

(14:29):
this is what worries me. It's not our timetable, it's
how well our parents will play together and how difficult
that will make life for us.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
I don't share with anyone, but I never have. I
don't know if it's I should be able to just
get over it or manage it, or maybe they're silly worries.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
You're tearing up a little bit as you say that
when you say I don't share with anyone. Why is
it that you feel you have to carry these burdens alone?
He sounds like a supportive, nice person, Your boyfriend. Why
do you feel he wouldn't be able to be there
for you.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
I don't know if it's about him or if it's
just about That's how I've done things my whole life.
I don't share my feelings. I don't share my feelings
or when I'm sad or when I'm worried with anyone.
I haven't felt like anyone has been able to.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Without it making them uncomfortable be there for me in
the past.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
What would happen when you were younger and you tried
to share a feelings sad with your parents?

Speaker 3 (15:52):
It would make them sad, or if I was sad
for too long, it would make them angry. I would
be told, you know that's enough now, or don't be silly.
My dad was really sick when we were growing up,

(16:13):
so I didn't want to burden any of them with
my own feelings. I just decided to deal with everything
on my own.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
At what age did you decide.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
That the pic cock's like a left what tip? So
that was when my dad was first diagnosed with cancer.
I feel like I've always been the responsible one anyway.
It was pretty much set out for me, firstborn female
in a half ethnic family. It always felt like a

(16:48):
lot to live up to, the perfect one. It doesn't
get sad, it doesn't get worried, it doesn't burden other people.
You just go on. And then when my dad got sick,
they came up with this story that didn't say Dad
has cancer. It made me feel like they felt that

(17:10):
I wouldn't be able to cope knowing even though I
was old enough to know why my dad had to
shave all his hair off. And so I called him
out and I said, in a very angry way, how
stupid do you think I am? I know dad has cancer?
And then I sort of took myself to my room

(17:30):
and refused to speak to anyone. And then I just
I cried then, but not in front of anyone. And
when I'd composed myself I just made a decision to
not be sad about it anymore. I thought, well, if
I show them that I'm strong and I'm not sad,
then they won't be sad anymore, and none of us
have to be sad.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
But then it's a family dynamic of you don't burden
each other with each other's feelings because you assume that
they can't handle it, and they assume that you can't
handle it. So that's something you do to one another.
Has it occurred to you, you're doing back to them
what they did.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
It hasn't occurred to me. It makes a lot of sense.
This is so generationally ingrained in my family. You lie
about how serious something is. This is just something that
my whole family does.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
But Alexis, what I'm pointing out is not that you
lie about it. The why you lie about it because
you assume that the other people can't handle it like
they assumed you couldn't. You were perfectly capable of and
you were annoyed by that. And it's possible they are
capable too.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
It's possible. But when I have shown periods of vulnerability
with my parents, it upsets them and they don't like
prolonged emotion. If I have, even as a teenager, cried
for any reason and it's gone on longer than what
they can tolerate, I have been told that's enough, now

(19:03):
stop crying.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
I think the word tolerate is so important here. Instead
of saying how can I sit with you in your sadness,
they feel discomfort because your sadness brings up something that
they can't tolerate, some discomfort in them. And just like
you did the same thing when you said, I know
dad has cancer, and then instead of getting comfort from them,

(19:29):
you went to your room and closed the door. So
everybody feels like I can maybe show a glimpse of
something anger sadness, but then we don't want it to
go on too long. So, as you said, you made
a decision not to be sad. Yeah, but you can't
just decide yourself out of sadness. You made a decision

(19:50):
not to show your sadness, yeah, but you were still sad.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I'm curious to hear more about that. When your dad
was going through his treatment cancer, what was that like
for you? You were eleven.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
To be honest, I don't know how I felt. I
think I completely switched myself off I ignored everything and
didn't ask about it, and I pretended that it wasn't happening.
So when my dad was in hospital, I didn't go

(20:23):
to the hospital because then I didn't have to see
what was happening. So I think I was terrified, but
I ignored all of that.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Did your parents try to ask you how you were
feeling and why you didn't want to go to the hospital.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, and I gave them I just don't want to
see my dad like that, or everything will be fine,
So if you just be positive, then everything will get better.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
And how did they respond to that?

Speaker 3 (20:55):
I think my dad agreed with that. He didn't want
to talk about it either, so he made him feel, Wow,
she can be so strong, so I can be strong,
because he would then say the same things that I
was saying, you know, let's not talk about it, let's
not worry about it. I will be fine. I'll get
through this. And his prognosis was I should mention very serious.

(21:20):
He was given three months to live, but he defied
all odds on three separate occasions and he is still here.
So I also feel now as an adult, guilty when
I feel like I'm disappointing him or not living up
to what he would like for me?

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Was this going on in the whole family, meaning your
brothers as well, we're not talking about it.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
I don't remember ever talking to my brothers about it.

Speaker 5 (21:51):
I just.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Remember thinking, they're, you know, about eight and six, and
they got given this story, so.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
You had to hold the true story and they believed
something else.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, it was when I got told that. I was
just angry. But I was just angry because it was happening,
not because they lived. I was just angry that my
happy life had to get really serious.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Well, you're probably much more than just angry. There were
probably all kanes of feelings that were going on. What
about friends? Did friends notice? Did you talk to any
friends or did you feel that would be disloyal? Did
any friends say, what's going on with your dad? It
looks Unwell.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
I didn't talk to any friends. I have a lot
of cousins that are very close with I didn't talk
to anyone. I know. My school knew because they sent
the school counselor and I said, I'm fine. I didn't
talk about it, and nobody asked me. That's really interesting
to me now as an adult, I recently came to
my mum and I said, Mom, I think I had

(23:03):
an eating disorder when I was at school. And she said, yeah,
I know. We took you once to a doctor and
they told us not to tell you and just it'll
figure itself out.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
How old were you when you had an eating disorder?

Speaker 3 (23:21):
I have so many memories of being in high school,
maybe fourteen or fifteen, and it wasn't about my body
at all, Like I didn't ever have any thoughts like that.
You know, I was big or this or that, but
I was obsessed with food and rules around food. And
then I would only eat this very specific food. So

(23:44):
my parents would just only buy that one thing, and
I wouldn't eat breakfast and I would throw my food
away at school. When I became an adult, I just
loved cooking, but not so that I could eat it.
I would cook so that other people could eat that food.
But you know, i'd convinced myself up until maybe four

(24:07):
years ago, I didn't like anything sweet. So on birthdays
I watched others enjoy food, but I never let myself.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Even on your birthday, I just would say.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
No, I don't like cake, and everyone just said, okay.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
That's such a metaphor for the way that it's all
about taking care of other people and depriving yourself. That deprivation,
whether it's the deprivation of the joy of eating something delicious,
whether it's the deprivation of getting comfort when you're feeling
sad or scared or angry. And again, as part of

(24:49):
that metaphor, nobody questioning why is this happening? And even
though your parents noticed and they took you to a doctor,
it was never discussed with you.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
No, and took credit to my boyfriend. He knew that
I wouldn't eat, and he would dish up food for me,
and he would say, we have to eat this together,
and I would really like if you ate the whole
bowl of this pasta or the whole bowl of this food.
And I remember i'd go to his mom's house for

(25:21):
dinner and he'd say, you sit down, and I would
dish up for you and he'd sit with me. We'd
get a roll together, and I'd take a few bites
and he'd say, I'd really like it if you could
eat half. And I didn't know what he was doing,
but he lent me just enjoy food. It was just like, hey,

(25:41):
you need energy, you need to eat, let me sit
with you, let me eat with you. And I've never
talked to him about that. Even funnily, as I say it,
I haven't even said thank you.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
So he was saying to you, I want you to
feel good. I want you to experience joy instead of
just making sure everybody else is enjoying the meal. And
he was almost giving you permission that I think that
you don't give yourself or you hadn't been given yourself

(26:13):
that I'm not allowed so I have to deprive myself.
And he was saying, I'm encouraging you to stop depriving yourself.
And I wonder why, given how meaningful that must have been,
and you're having such an emotional reaction to it now,
what has prevented you from saying that was so meaningful

(26:37):
for me.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
I don't like to show vulnerability or that I need
other people. As you were talking, I was thinking about
other times where I've needed comfort or support and how
I would let a little bit in from my boyfriend
and then I would consciously shut off and tell myself

(27:00):
that's enough. Now, no, I'm crying.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's what your parents said, and I.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Would do it to myself and I'm just thinking in
my head, I don't want to rely on anybody except myself,
because I hadn't been able to for so long, and
that makes me feel sad because it stops us connecting
in a lot of ways too.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm thinking about this idea of how scary it is
to rely on somebody else. Those are the words you used, yeah,
as opposed to thinking of it as I'm getting support
from somebody. But what happened in your family is you
were told, Okay, that's enough. You've been sad for long enough,
we need to stop this. And so you learned that

(27:44):
you can't actually rely on other people. And that's very
scary for a child to think I can't rely on anybody.
I have to deal with this all on my own.
And when you talk about the behaviors around food, they
were a way to control your envice. It was I
have all these very specific rules, and these very specific

(28:05):
rules keep me safe. I don't rely on food, I
don't rely on people. I don't need anything. I create
the rules, though, so I'm in control. And when you
open up to someone, it still feels to you like
you're seeding control in some way, that somehow, if I
open up to him. I'm not in control anymore.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Yeah, that's exactly that.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
But I think what you're not seeing is that you're
not in control by hiding your feelings either.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think Alexis your boyfriend has learned long ago, probably
with you, that he can't bring up things directly because
that something you avoid that would upset you. So he
has to talk about stuff been a roundabout way. Instead
of saying, I'm concerned about your relationship with food, he says,

(29:01):
let's just try and get to half. But he doesn't
talk about the thing. And I know that you think
that it's probably because he's uncomfortable, but he sounds like
he's responding to the very clear messaging from you that
you are the one that's really uncomfortable, so let's not
have that kind of conversation. And he's hearing that. He's

(29:23):
trying to be there for you in the ways in
which you allow him to be, but there are many
ways in which you don't allow him to be. Yeah,
do you think if you did allow yourself to be
more vulnerable with him? And by more vulnerable, what I
mean is just have some of these conversations some of

(29:43):
the time in a direct way. Do you think he
would be able to be there for you and be supportive?

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, I do. We had some other really serious family
stuff happen a couple of years ago. I could not
manage it a because it was really scary. The feelings
were really big. What was going on My youngest brother.
He had a heart attack from an overdose on cocaine,

(30:10):
and he had actually been pronounced dead. He was resuscitated
several times, and then was you know, I see you
in a coma, and we were told that he would
be permanently in a vegetative state for the rest of
his life. And I couldn't manage that. I should mention that.
By some miracle, about eight hours after that conversation, which

(30:35):
was a few days after his heart attack, he did
wake up. But I could not deal with that on
my own. And he did such a good job of
even getting me to have a shower and coming in
that shower and washing my hair because I couldn't do
any of that.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Could you talk to him about how you were feeling
in that moment. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
We'd spent one night up all night just laying in bed,
and he would just listen to what I was saying.
And say I'm here and just holding me.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
That's lovely and it's supportive and it's so present, But
it takes a lot for you to allow even that. Right,
You're right.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
I let him in that night and then I switched off.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
You allowed him to care for you. But that night,
as he's caring for you, were able to express anything
about how you're feeling to him.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, I was terrified and sad and scared, and I
told him that. But I also told him that I
was scared about all the responsibility that I thought that
I had to take now in this new role that
I started to picture that night where my parents were
cares for my brother, and I envisioned myself now being

(31:54):
a care for three people, not just my brother, but
my mom and my dad. And I told him that
how did that feel to you? It just felt scared.
It made me feel really weak to feel so vulnerable
because I'm smart, I should just figure out what to
do and do it. And I didn't like that I

(32:16):
felt so vulnerable with somebody else.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
I want you to hear what this sounds like. Your
brother is in a coma and you're told he'll be
in a vegetative state for the rest of his life.
And you're saying I felt like I shouldn't be having
these feelings. If somebody else had a brother in a
coma who might be in a vegetative state for the

(32:42):
rest of his life, would you feel that that person
shouldn't be having those feelings. They're smart, so they shouldn't
be having those feelings because they know better.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
I know how stupid it sounds when I say it
out loudly. It makes no sense because I would expect
that of any other person. I would expect more than
bigger emotions, not to just say, okay, well, this is
a problem that.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
We just deal with.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Whose voice is that?

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I want to say it's mine, but I think it's
my dad. Yeah. I feel bad saying that, but I
think it is his voice.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
And the thing is that exists that you do know better.
As you said, you do have very different judgment about
other people expressing vulnerability in certain moments. I'm even going
to assume that you know that it's a healthy response
and that there's something not so great about stuffing all
those feelings down. Yeah, and yet you say I know

(33:42):
it's stupid. It's not stupid because it's fear based and
so the fear is, if I become too vulnerable, you'll
be derelicting all your other duties towards family members and
other people for whom you, from a very young age
felt a certain responsibility. So how much do you feel
in touch with that real fear about what terrible things

(34:07):
can happen if you let yourself be vulnerable in a
much more profound way than you have so far?

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Right now, I can intellectually understand it, but emotionally, something's
happened in me, and I've pushed that.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Back down because you can see that growing up, with
the experiences that you've had, there was a lot of
practice in pushing things down. But it takes your brother
to be in an overdose vegetative state for you to
allow yourself a night. We've getting some support from somebody
who loves you and wants to give it to you,
but that's what it takes, and even then you only
earn a night.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
That's scary to me as well, that it takes such
extreme for me to share anything other than this sort
of perfect robotic version of whatever I think people expect

(35:04):
or with lack from me, rather than just letting myself
be or feel or just show that I'm not okay
sometimes too.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
And especially with someone who's proven himself being capable of
being there for you in an exquisitely delicate way. So
is it as scary to let him see that vulnerable
side as it is other people?

Speaker 3 (35:32):
It shouldn't be. But I don't know where to start
or how to start.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Well, you actually have a live issue before you, so
the where to start is not too complicated because you're
asking us, how can we help set limits with your parents?
Before your parents, we are interested in how you can
approach this as a unit, not just you, and by
stuffing it down? What would it be like to talk
to him about your feelings about what's going on with

(35:58):
your parents and the pressures in the wedding and how
court you feel?

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Might be nice to get out of my head. I
think it would be nice to feel hurt and understood.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
A minute ago, you said I don't let my parents
ask about my life. Are they making an effort at
this point in your life to understand, not to tell
you how they feel, but to understand how you feel.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
I don't get asked, well, how do you feel about
this situation? I get told how they feel about that
situation and how I should feel about that situation. But
I don't get asked my feelings or thoughts on those situations.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
So how are they telling you that you should feel
about the status of your relationship with your boyfriend.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
I should be pressuring him more to get engaged and
to get married, to start a family. I should want
to already have a baby, and like, it's very clear,
why haven't you had a baby yet? And I would
say something like, well, right now, I'm focusing on my career.
I have only been in my career for two years now,

(37:16):
and I spent a really long time studying to get here.
And I want to settle into my home and settle
into my life before I take on more responsibilities. And
I don't feel quite adult enough to be a mum yet,
And I just get told, well, you're not getting any younger.

(37:37):
The clock is ticking, and I want to be a grandparent.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I'm wondering if you have a sense, since you tend
to focus on other people's feelings, what is their fear
that you're going to have spent ten years with your
boyfriend and the two of you are not going to
end up together, That you're going to be too old
to have a child. What is their fear exactly?

Speaker 3 (37:57):
It's keeping face. It is what will people think about
this situation? And that has been something our whole lives,
particularly on my dad's side. There's just this expectation you
should get married and you should have children. And I'm
sinning in a way because you know, God says that
you should do this and that. And then the other

(38:19):
part is that there's just this cultural expectation. And so
I'm almost damaged goods because I'm getting older and I
don't have all of the things that this culture says, Hey,
women should be married and women should have children. But
it's also so confusing to me now that my dad
says these things to me, because my whole life, up

(38:42):
until I was like twenty five, twenty six, so this
is only now two years different, he had said nothing
about these expectations. He had said things like you have
to study, and you have to get a good job,
and you have to focus on your career. And then
once I got to the career, I got all of

(39:03):
these different messages and it was so confusing to me.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Can I ask what culture you're talking about when you
say cultural expectations?

Speaker 3 (39:12):
My dad is Greek, so I should have been married
ten years ago, essentially eighteen twenty, which was funny because
when I was twenty three, he would say, oh, no,
she doesn't need to get married yet. She's so young,
she has time, and then you know, in a couple
of years after that, it's all you're too old. You
don't have time with your dad.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
It would be great to have a conversation with him
in which you bring your own perspective. You tell him
how you feel about things, what's important to you, so
he understands your perspective separate from his own.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
I feel like I've tried in times when he's said
these comments. He never says them like as in, let's
sit down and let's talk. I could be sitting down
on the couch watching TV and he might just turn
to me. I don't know what to say. I have
to say something to you because I love you, but
I don't want you to get angry. So let's say

(40:11):
he says to me, you know I want to be
a grandfather. I might say, well, my brother's married, so
he'll have a baby soon. They're talking about that, but
I think you should have a baby. You're running out
of time, and I might say, well, I don't want
a baby right now, and then that is met with
him going into this angry mode. It's almost like a

(40:34):
tar trimming child. And I've said it to my mom,
Why does he go into this child tantrum? But my
mom does not stand up to my dad because it
then would make her life difficult. So my mom will
agree with my dad in front of my dad to
appease my dad. But when it's me and my mom,

(40:55):
she just says, don't worry about it. I don't care
if you get married. I don't care if you have children.
You do what you want. That's up to you and
your boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
But alex As, I was asking you about whether you
were able to share with your father your perspective and
you were able to respond to his But is there
appointed what you say to him. I understand your concerns that.
Here's my thinking about it. The way I'm thinking, I
spent all this time getting ready for this career. I
do want a little bit more of it. I am
still in my twenties, so the ticking clock is not

(41:22):
taking too loudly for me. And here's what I'm thinking.
Do you explain that to him.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
We have had these conversations, but his view is that
you're just saying that because that's what your boyfriend wants.
But I haven't really tried to sit down outside of
when we've already both been heeded and try and have
a conversation where I say, I understand what you're saying,

(41:50):
and I know that you want the best for me,
but this is what I would also black for me.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
I find it interesting that you and your mom have
so much in common, so you're smiling.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
I haven't thought about it that way.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Well, let's think about it for a second. I'm thinking
about how your mom just puts her own feelings aside
in order to make sure that your dad doesn't get upset. Yeah,
and so she has her own thoughts about this, which
is she's not particularly worried about what you and your
boyfriend are doing. She wants you to figure that out

(42:30):
with your boyfriend as is appropriate.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
She just wants us to be happy.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yes, yes, And she also wants your dad to be happy,
and she's not really thinking about how she can share
her feelings with him. She supports him in those moments
when he's pressuring you instead of saying, hey, you know what,
I think something different because that would agitate him. You

(42:55):
do the same thing, you know. I have to make
sure that everybody around me is okay and my feelings
all keep to myself.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yeah. We are very similar like that actually, And it's
funny because I assume my mom can't comfort me. I
just don't let her do that now as I think
about it now, she does it for everyone else, so
there is no reason that I couldn't also share with her.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
And she also does comfort you in a way by saying, listen,
I just want you to be happy. I'm not putting
that pressure on you. But I think that part of
supporting you might create some work for her, which is
that she needs to be able to express her feelings
in front of your dad as well.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
How are your boyfriend's parents giving the two of you
space to figure things out on your own.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
They're totally fine. They've never said anything to me, and
my boyfriend hasn't said that they've ever said anything to him.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
When your parents push you to put pressure on your boyfriend,
you said that that's created some conflict with your boyfriend.
What are those conversations look like between you and your boyfriend?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
It looks like me taking all of that in and
this seed going into my head and ruminating and festering,
and then by the time I see him, I just
go into this angry mode. I just say, you know,

(44:33):
my dad said this, and my dad said that, and
he just says, like, I don't understand where this is
coming from. It's like, I just get so anxious that
I'm disappointing my dad that I ignore any conversations that
my boyfriend and I have had and I just stomp
in there and I'm almost like tantruming myself. But I'm

(44:55):
also quite happy with where things are, and I lack
that we're on our own timeline because I was so
focused on studying for a very very very long time
that I feel that it's only the past few years
when I've been working that we've been able to solidify
a more healthy adult relationship where we spend good quality

(45:20):
time together and we enjoy each other. Versus me being
stressed and overwhelmed and studying all hours and working three jobs.
I get to just work one job with normal hours,
and I want more of that. So it's so strange
to me that I get so angry when my dad

(45:42):
says these things, and I stomp over to him and
I just yell at him. I just want to just
get it all out because I don't say it to
my dad, and he's becomes my boxing bag if in
a way, which is had?

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Are you even clear enough about the distinctions of who
you're angry at in those.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Moments, I'm just angry that, like my dad doesn't listen.
I'm now at a point where i get anxious being
alone with my dad because I'm scared that one of
these comments will come out of nowhere, and then that

(46:23):
puts me in a bad mood for the rest of
the day.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
What would happen if you got angry with your dad
in those moments?

Speaker 3 (46:31):
He gets angry back. And when he gets angry back,
he can He can be quite nasty. He can pull
out the book of Oh he's anything that I can
say to that might make you feel bad, like what
he could say almost anything. Sometimes he will use financial
support as a way of shutting you down. So you

(46:55):
know what, I paid for all of your studies, so
you do what I say most on my timeline. When
I say you do it, I've kept a roof over
your head. Or he would even say something like, well,
why don't you just go live with your stupid boyfriend then?

Speaker 2 (47:11):
And if you said to him in those moments that
it is my plan, we just disagree about the timeline.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
I've said something like and when I leave, you'll be
very sad and you'll see when I leave.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Do you live with your parents?

Speaker 3 (47:26):
I do, because we're building our house, so my partner
doesn't live with them, but I do live with my parents.
But also that's another cultural thing as well, because the
expectation was you don't move out until you're married. I
used to think the rules applied to all of us siblings.
But when my brother built his house with his girlfriend

(47:49):
at the time now wife, it was all happy days
and it was good and it was okay. And my
youngest brother his girlfriend actually live at our house and
they've been together eight months. So it feels more now
that the rules apply to me. And that's also, though,

(48:14):
been the expectation that I've had growing up. I had
to go to UNI, I had to do this. My
brothers didn't have to do any of that. They could
be what they wanted on their timelines.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Given the tension at home. Was there ever a consideration
of moving in with your boyfriend where he lives now.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
I would love to. He lives on his parents' property
in a little one bedroom, so even if I would
love to, it just fits his minimal belongings, and I'm
okay with that. More recently, especially since my brother got married,
I feel the pressure more, which means I avoid coming

(48:59):
home a lot now, so I'll work more, or I
just won't say where I am so I can pretend
that I'm at work so that I can have some
breathing space before I get home, because it's so unpredictable
that I'm now going into. Well, this house couldn't be

(49:20):
built quick enough, but it's still just dirt on the
floor right now, so I have to also be patient.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Is there a possibility of you getting your own place
while the house is being built, or you and your
boyfriend moving to a place together temporarily while the house
is being built.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
My cousin has actually said, you know, you can live
here sometimes because he knows that sometimes things get difficult
at home. But I don't want to do that. I
don't know why.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Let's look at that for a minute. This house might
take a couple of years if it's just dirt right now.
What is preventing you from saying, I might have more
peace if I'm not in this environment all the time.
What is preventing you and your boyfriend from getting a
place together for the next couple of years while you
wait for the house.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
For the first part, I also do like spending time
with my mom and dad when my dad isn't down
my neck. I do a lot with my mom and dad,
and I have always very much enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
What do you do with them?

Speaker 3 (50:21):
We go on holidays together. So over Christmas, you know,
I'd spent three weeks at the holiday house with my parents,
and my partner came as he could because he was working.
We go for drives, we do stuff around the house together,
and I enjoy that. If they don't try and tell
me what they want or what to do.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
You keep saying they, but it seems like it's your dad.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
It feels like they because my mom is often there
as an observer to this, so it makes me feel
like they. But you're right, it's my dad. Because when
my mom is just home, I don't have this anxious
feeling to be alone and to just enjoy time together.
So sometimes in my head it's like, Okay, what's happened today?

(51:08):
Is there anything that I can predict that could come up? No? Okay, great,
it's probably going to be a good day.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
I hear that you can have good times with your parents,
but I don't think you're fully in touch with how
distressing it is on a daily basis to not feel
safe emotionally in your home, to not feel like you
can just sit and watch television without your dad turning
to you and going so you know the clock's ticking

(51:39):
and any of those things, and knowing that if you respond,
he's going to get angry, and then if you get angry,
he'll get angrier. And I'm not sure you're fully in
touch with how oppressive that is and how stressful.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Yeah, I'm not. You're right. I make myself very busy
so that I don't have to worry about that until
I'm in the moment.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Almost in your own thinking. What is the life circumstance
or the age or the point at which you just
you get to prioritize your feelings over your dad's. Your
dad prioritizes his own feelings over yours. When do you
feel ready? What needs to happen for you? To feel

(52:23):
you know what, he'll advocate for his My feelings are
more important. I'm not squashing mine just to please him anymore.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
To be honest, I'd like to do it like now,
which is why I'm reaching out, because I'm tired of
feeling this way, and I would like to hope that
my dad cares and loves me enough that he will
listen if I can find the way to talk to
him about how I'm feeling and work together. I don't

(52:54):
think it'll be a simple conversation and it will all
magically change. But if I'm being brave, I would like
to say now.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
It won't be a simple conversation. It won't even be
a single conversation. You asked about setting boundaries. They have
two steps for setting boundaries. You've set them, and then
the maintenance is a difficult one. So you have to
be ready for an ongoing campaign, not just a one
time hold my breath and get through it. Yeah, are

(53:22):
you ready?

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah? If it was at the start of this conversation,
I probably would have said I want to do it
when I don't live at the house anymore, because I
can have space and clarity. But to be honest, I
don't want to wait a year until I start doing that,
because I want to come home and feel calm and

(53:45):
enjoy the time that I also get to have staying
at home with my parents. Before you know, I don't
see them as regularly and life just changes.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Part of it, Alexis, is the way that this pressure
is unpredictable. You never know when it's going to happen,
and you don't know how to respond to it. The
other part of it, though, is that you were talking
at the beginning of the terror that you have around
both sets of parents being together, and I don't think

(54:19):
these are two unrelated things. It's the same terror that
you have. I never know what's going to happen when
I'm sitting on the couch watching TV with my dad,
and I never know what's going to happen if our
parents run into each other.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
And it's also funny because I don't know if I'm
giving any of the four of them any credit here,
because I wonder if some of the terror isn't valid
anymore now that we've been together for so long and
they know that we're serious and they know how much

(54:51):
we love each other.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Has your boyfriend ever said, Hey, it would be really
nice if we could get our parents in the same room.
No is he afraid Also.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
I don't even know if that's because it's about him
or because he knows how anxious it makes me, so
he just doesn't bring it up.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
So he does a lot of protecting of you, knowing
that conversations are a challenge for you.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Yeah, And I wonder when you think about the future together,
what would a different future look like in terms of communication.
You said you're ready to start now doing something different
with your dad. What about doing something different with your
boyfriend so that the rules are not he takes care

(55:38):
of you any kind of silently into it's what you need,
but you're able to participate in that conversation.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
I think I would really like that. I think the
more that we've been talking today, I've also realized that
I think he stops sharing sometimes with me because he
doesn't want me to feel upset. I would love if
he felt comfortable enough that I wouldn't respond in a
way that made him feel shut down either. I think

(56:08):
it would just feel really nice to be able to
walk in and say, hey, this is how I'm feeling.
It would help me feel more like an adult in
my relationship than this sort of teenager that I sometimes
still feel like in that relationship because I just I
just avoid and avoid and avoid.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
It's very difficult to feel like an adult when you're
living in the same room that you grew up in
with the same people who treat you in the same way.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Yes, and look, I think we haven't had the conversation
why don't we just rent somewhere for a little while
until the house is built. I kind of think I
would like to put that money onto the mortgage more
because but then when I think about it, Sorry, I'm
smiling because I have this voice in my head that's
my duds, that would say renting is wasting money. So

(56:57):
as I say that, I realized that it's also not
my own thought process there, right.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
And we want to help you understand what your thoughts
are that are separate from other people's and then how
to communicate them.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Yeah, it would be maybe nice in some ways to
move out and rent together and do that now. But
I wonder if maybe I could stay at his house
more and just take a big overnight bag with me
for a few days and not have to go home
and come back to his house and home and back
to his house, I could, you know, situate myself there

(57:30):
a little bit more so that we could do more
things like cook dinner together more. Because it's funny. He
has said things to me like, it's when you want
to we do this when it feels convenient for you,
and that hurts. But the way I do things probably
does send that message.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
And everything that you just said is illustrating how an
adult thinks. Now you're problem solving. Now you're trying to
understand more about what it would look like to be
your own person and stay connected to your family. Yeah,
how can you do both? And do you see how
in just those few minutes you went into your adult

(58:13):
space and you said, yeah, I do have more flexibility
around this. This might be healthier for my relationship. This
is a way I could stay connected to my family
and also move into this new phase.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Yeah, rather than how do I please my family? Be home,
eat with the family, then leave, then go to you know,
and wonder why I'm so tired all the time because
I'm trying my best to please everyone, and yet I'm
not only not pleasing all of them, I'm also not
looking after me.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
So alexis we have some advice for you, and probably
not surprisingly, we would like you to talk with your
dad and we would like you to say to him, Dad,
I love you so much and our relationship is really
important to me. But when you bring up these questions
about what's happening between me and my boyfriend, I actually

(59:14):
dread coming home. I wonder if we're going to have
the good time that we usually have, or if something's
going to come up that's really going to put me
in a bad mood. And I don't want to dread
being around you. I'm an adult now and my boyfriend
and I have a timeline that works for us and
we're both really happy with it. And so Dad, I'm

(59:37):
asking that you not bring this up anymore. If there's
a change to the timeline, I will let you know.
But nothing you say in the meantime is going to
change the timeline, and it's only going to make me
dread being around you, and I don't want that to happen.
So if you do bring it up, I'm going to
ask you to let it go or I'm going to

(01:00:00):
the room. And I'm doing this so that we can
enjoy our time together.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
And so remember there that's the limit setting conversation phase one,
and then the phase two is the maintenance of the boundary.
And the good thing about doing what we suggested in
phase one is that you can shorthand phase two communications.
You don't have to start explaining the whole thing over again.
The minute he starts me saying, so look about the wedding,

(01:00:28):
you said to him, Dad, please to remind you, I
really don't feel like leaving the room right now, so
could you please drop it? He keeps going, Okay, you
know what, I'll come back later, because I really asked.
I don't want to have this conversation. And if you
go very nicely, very respectfully, even you start standing up
and go Dad, can we let it go? You just
telegraph and remind him of the intent.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
And the thing that guy said about doing it very
nicely and calmly is that you're doing it from the
adult place now and not from that teenager place. This
is all about transitioning you in to adulthood, so that
being an adult means staying connected to your family, but
also being yourself. How can you navigate those boundaries.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
And in this case knowing not just what's better for you,
but what's better for your relationship with him than he does,
so that really has to company the place of the adult. Yeah,
all right, Task number two conversation with boyfriend. We want
you to say to him, I really appreciate how well

(01:01:31):
you see me and you get me, and you care
for me, and you do it so sensitively. And I'm
not sure I've told you how wonderful that feels. And
it happens at times of distress, so it might not
look like it feels wonderful because I'm going through a
difficult time, but I so appreciate it that I'm not

(01:01:54):
sure I've told you how much I really value it,
because I'm not great talking about my feelings and that's
something I'm really trying to work on. But that's probably
made you hesitant to talk about yours, and I want
you to be able to talk about yours, and I

(01:02:14):
want to keep working to talk more openly about mine.
So I wanted to let you know those are conversations
I would like us to have, and one of the
ways I want us to have that conversation is to
talk about things like the following. I know we have
our life plan, but I would love to start our
life together a little sooner. Construction can take a long time,

(01:02:39):
and I want us to talk together about what we
can do to spend more nights together. Maybe I have
an overnight bag at your place, Maybe we can both
spend time at my cousin's place, just so we can
kind of start our lives and not feel like we
have to wait for the construction to be completed. You're
not mentioning marriage. This is just kind of being together.

(01:03:02):
But I would love to know how you feel about that.
And then you toss it to him and he's going
to be hesitant. I mean, you're saying I want to
hear how you feel, but he's used to dancing around.
So catch him and go like, okay, but tell me
really how you feel about that. I really want to
have that discussion.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
And his telling you how he feels isn't just yeah,
that's a good idea. No that's not a good idea.
But the why So if he says, you know, I
don't really think I'm ready to do that yet, you
don't just leave it there. So it's about what comes
up for you around this, What are you worried about?

(01:03:43):
You can tell me I can handle it right, and
then you tell him how you feel, and you might
have feelings about whatever he says, and you can say
and let me tell you how I feel about the
fact that you're not ready to do this or is
let me tell you how happy I am to hear
that you are ready to do this. And let me

(01:04:06):
also tell you that I'm scared a little bit because
I'm very connected to my family, so this is a
big step for me and I'm excited to do this,
and it's also going to be a big change for me.
You can share all kinds of feelings. They can be
happy feelings, they can be worried feelings, ambivalence, whatever it is,
but just being able to be open with each other

(01:04:27):
and have a true conversation, not just logistically, but how
do we both feel about potentially taking these steps and
doing it now while we're waiting for the big plan,
which is we're going to move into this house that
we're building together.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Yeah, I'm excited to have that conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
And then the last piece of advice we have for
you is you said that actually the parents seem to
be quite civil to each other from what you've heard,
but we don't want you to have that feeling at
your wedding of what's going to happen. We don't want
that to be the very first time that all the
parents are in the room together. So we would like
you and your boyfriend together to plan a very casual gathering,

(01:05:07):
not just with both sets of parents, but there will
be other people there as well. Maybe you have a
big family, maybe friends, and something very casual. Maybe it's
a barbecue, something outside where people can escape, whatever it
needs to be. But it's not like and now we're
going to put you together. It's just, hey, we're having
this gathering and you're doing what most couples do, which
is we're inviting our family, and so it makes sense

(01:05:31):
that both parents would be invited to this, and you're
not going to make a big deal and you're not
going to have conversations with people about it beforehand. It's
just let's see how this goes. And so then if
it doesn't go well, you have some runway there, you
have some space to talk about you and your boyfriend
together so that it's not all on you and you

(01:05:52):
have to problem solve the whole thing. But you can say, oh, wow,
did you see this happened? How do we manage this,
let's come up with some ideas together, or maybe it
goes really well and everybody's very civil, and then you
don't have to feel that sense of dread going into
any kind of family occasion that might come up, including
your wedding here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Yeah, so how does all that sound.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
I'm probably most excited to have the conversation with my partner,
like almost like, ah, I wish he was awake. I
could go and have that conversation with him. Now. I
am nervous about talking to my dad, not even about
the gathering. I think it's the talking to my dad
that feels very foreign to me. That is my most

(01:06:37):
nerve wracking conversation, but the most important one. I think
that means to happen as well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
And the bar for success has nothing to do with
his response, only with what you put forth. If you
put forth your truth, success regardless of how he responds.

Speaker 5 (01:06:57):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
For example, Let's say that he says, well, I'm going
to keep bringing it up. I'm your father, and I'm
not going to be told what I can bring up
and what I can't bring up. You can say, okay, Dad,
then I will be coming home with a sense of dread,
and if you do bring it up, I will ask
you to let it go, or I will leave the

(01:07:18):
room because I'm not going to engage in that conversation. Yeah,
you're going to need to take a lot of breaths
and get back into the adult space and not go
into that automatic place that we tend to go when
we get triggered by our parents, which is you go
back into that helpless childhood place.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
We think you're very ready for the adulthood. You just
have to grab it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
Thank you very much for that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Oh, you're very welcome, and we look forward to hearing
how all of these things go this week.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
What was interesting to me about that session was how
raw things were for a lie exis. On the one hand,
how little practice she's had talking about her feelings, yet
how ready she seemed to do it on the other.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, there was a moment in the session when she said,
if you had asked me this at the beginning of
the session, I don't think I would have been ready
to do that, but I am now right, And I
think that'spoke most of something she said at the end
about she said, I'm really tired. It's really exhausting to
feel like you have to hold your feelings, you have
to take care of everyone else. She's done it her

(01:08:30):
whole life, so I think that she's kind of ready,
like a butterfly, ready to emerge.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
I agree, And I think it was the fact that
she was able to be so open with us and
so vulnerable. She cried and she was teary, and the
world did an end and everything was okay, and we
actually were more interested in how she felt. I think
that was also a great illustration for her about how
it can feel to open up and be supported.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
And I like that she's going to be doing something
with her dad that she's not used to doing. We're
pretty much predicting that he's not going to take well
to this conversation. So it's really about her saying, let
me ask myself, how do I feel in this moment.
There were so many times in the conversation where she said,
I'm not sure if this is my voice or this
is one of my parents' voices.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Right. That's why it doesn't matter how it goes on
his end. Her doing it despite that fear, because that's
what's right for her. I think is going to be
really meaningful to her and hopefully set her on the
right path. You're listening to deotherapists. We'll be back after

(01:09:36):
a short break. So, Laurie, we heard from Alexis and
we gave her a few conversations to have before we
get to them. A note to our listeners, Alexis is

(01:09:57):
taping this late at night, and so she's whispering for
that reason. She doesn't want to wake people up. Let's
hear how she did.

Speaker 5 (01:10:03):
Hi guy, Hi Laurie. Just checking in about some of
the homework that you guys gave me. So the first
task that you gave me was around a conversation with
my dad. It took me a couple of days to

(01:10:23):
work up the courage and figure out how to have
this conversation with him, but that was a really great
opportunity when we were alone together in the car. I
was really anxious to have this. But he didn't get angry,
we didn't have a fight.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
It was him being a little bit rigid, saying that
he just wants the best for me and he wants
me to be happy. So I really just had to
highlight that I am really happy and I am happy
with my timeline and things are going the way that
I and my boyfriend would like them to, and that

(01:11:07):
just because that doesn't match up with his timeline, that's okay.
He shoult have stopped the conversation there, and things have
been good. I've been a little bit less worried about
coming home. I am still, however, a little bit worried
that this is going to come up again. Sometimes he

(01:11:29):
has these patterns where things will go okay for a
little bit. But I'm really much more confident him revisiting
this conversation now, knowing how it went and with the
advice that he had given me. The second conversation was
with my boyfriend. I did this one much quicker, and

(01:11:49):
I really focused on how much I value how he's
there for me. In fact, I opened up quite a
bit more following that conversation, and he then opened up
with me about how he's been feeling just with life
and his new job, and it was really really nice.

(01:12:12):
I felt much more connected in that moment. We did
have a discussion about spending more time together and what
that would look like. We have decided that I will
stay there at his house more frequently and for longer
periods of time. So we're really excited about this. And
we're really looking forward to what that looks like. The

(01:12:36):
last piece of advice was to talk to my boyfriend
and that we could both organize together catch up for
our parents. Just to me in a very casual setting.
This is something that we haven't done yet. It's just
we both have lots on our schedules in the coming month,

(01:12:57):
but we are really trying to find a time that
we know will work really well for both our families.
And whilst I am a bit anxious about that, I
feel much more supported doing this with my partner. So
I just wanted to thank you guys again.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
It sounded like Alexis did really well. I think that
the conversation with her father she was really uncomfortable, but
she did very well in saying her piece and explaining
it and not prolonging the conversation. The one comment I
would have is you said, if it comes up again,
it will come up again, and you don't need to
have the whole conversation all over again. When it does,

(01:13:36):
you just remind him Dad, we spoke about that. Remember
I'm doing it on my own timeline, and then you
leave it again.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
I do think she did a good job. I know
this was a really hard conversation for her to have.
I did not hear her setting the boundary though, and
I think that she needs to go back to our
advice and listen to how we explain to her how
the boundary setting sounds, because I don't think she said
to him, if it comes up again, I will leave

(01:14:05):
the conversation. And then she needs to actually leave the
room and the conversation in a very warm, friendly way.
But she needs to do that consistently because if she
doesn't do that consistently, he might just keep bringing it up.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Correct and so I think when he does the next time,
which she willed, then you say to him, Dan, remember
we spoke about this and then Alexis said the boundary.
Say so, I don't want to talk about it again,
and if you keep bringing it up, I'm just going
to end the conversation and leave the room. Just be
very explicit in the kindest way. That is just unpleasant
for me. It stresses me out. This is what I
have to do.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
And I like that she said it was easy to
go to her boyfriend and have that conversation. It shows
that they have a lot of connection, a lot of
trust with each other. It was so nice to hear
that when she opened up to him, he opened up
so much to her, and it made them feel so
much more connected, and that they both want to spend
more time together and that she will be spending more

(01:14:59):
time his house.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
I think they need that, and I really got the
sense that having that conversation made them feel more unified,
and that was also why we wanted them to throw
this family event. I also think that planning this family
event together will continue to unify you and define you
in your eyes and especially in your family's eyes, as

(01:15:21):
a unit as a couple.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Alexi said they didn't have time for a get together
where the parents would both be there, and I know
that they're busy, but I also think it's really important
that they prioritize that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Absolutely, and even in the planning, there is an intervention there,
because it's sufficient that you put both parents on an
email together and say, we would like to invite you
to a blah blah blah, whatever you choose to do.
Let's look at our calendars and try and find dates.
So even before it happens, the intention is there. So
alexis we are encouraging you strongly to not wait months,

(01:15:55):
but to start the planning and the communicating with the
two sets of parents about this right now, because we
really think that you and your boyfriend make a good
team and this is something you should approach as a team.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Next week, a mother and daughter who've been emotionally distant
for the past twenty five years try to heal the
wounds of the past.

Speaker 6 (01:16:17):
From the moment she said she didn't want us to
be involved in the adoption process, I felt that Stephanie
was rejecting me, and as things have gone on for
the past years, I felt like she doesn't approve of me,
and so I've just distanced myself.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for
free so you don't miss any episodes, and please help
support your therapists by telling your friends about it and
leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help
people to find the show.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,
email us at Loridguy at iHeartMedia dot com. Our executive
producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited by Josh Fisher.
Additional editing support by Zachary Fisher and Katie Matty Our
intern is Anna Doherty and special thanks to our podcast

(01:17:09):
fairy Godmother Katie Couric. We can't wait to see you
at our next session. Deo Therapist is a production of
iHeartRadio

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
Fild