November 9, 2025 • 40 mins
It feels like everyone’s sneezing, coughing, or cutting out gluten—but what’s really behind the allergy explosion? Titi and Zakiya dig into why seasonal allergies seem worse than ever, how climate change and “too much cleanliness” play a role, and what the difference is between an allergy, an intolerance, and just being sensitive. With allergist and immunologist Dr. Purvi Parikh, they unpack myths from TikTok tests to peanut panic, reveal how science is rethinking early exposure, and call out how pop culture turned asthma into a punchline.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Maybe it's mabeling, but seasonal allergies have become always on
for me, Like I don't even remember when the switch was,
but I just know a zerteka day keeps my embarrassing
sneezes and my running nose away. Yes, it feels like
I am constantly reaching for my inhaler because I have
the type of allergies that causes breathing problems and it
(00:24):
is the worst. You know what it's like to just
be out and being like, ooh, where's my inhaler? I
feel like it's embarrassing. It shouldn't be embarrassing because it's
just for my health, but it is. No, I always
thought it inhaler was cool. Something about that, you know,
like you just taking on that kind of wind. That
(00:46):
was cool to me. Oh my gosh. I don't know
if I've ever heard that. But I don't know what's
going on. You don't know what's going on, So we
should really think about talking about this today. I'm t
T and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs. Welcome
(01:08):
to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science
with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. It
feels like, and I'm gonna put you know, underline on fields.
Feels like everybody has allergies. Honestly, I don't know a
single person who doesn't. These days, like when it's springtime,
(01:31):
everybody's you know, itchy eyes, water running nose, and even
in the fall, I feel like lots of people have
allergies and they're like, oh, these are my fall allergies.
I don't remember it being like this when I was
a kid. Now, as a kid, I did have bad allergies.
I had to take this little pill and it had
these little bitter pebbles inside. They weren't pebbles, they were medicine.
But I couldn't swallow pills. And some of my mom
(01:53):
used to put it in apple sauce. That was my
allergy medicine, but I only took it certain times of
the year. And now I have I know I'm having
year long allergies, and we're in the recitation because I
want to know why. Yeah, I want to know why
I'm having year long allergies. Now, okay, so then what
do we know? We know we're seeing some shifting allergies.
(02:14):
I know, even if that's just my personal anecdotal evidence
for me m m. Yeah. And we've talked about this
during some of our live shows that we've done about
how you know there's so much more pollen and it's
because of these different these trees that have been planted.
But I thought that was debunked. I don't know, see, Okay,
So now let's just talk about what we want to know.
(02:38):
Is it just the pollen? It can't just be the pollen,
because also, doesn't it feel like food allergies are going up? Absolutely?
Absolutely they were at least for a while for a while,
and it seems like they're going down because of some changes.
But it also feels like there are a lot of
people who are gluten intolerant. Wait wait, wait wait wait
you said gluten intolerant. That brings up another question. Is
(03:00):
intolerance and allergy the same thing? Ry? So see, I
use allergy and intolerance the same and so, but it
can't be the same. They're two different words, right, So
I need to know the difference between those two because
I'm not allergic to lactose, but I am lactose intolerance.
Good point. See, And I also t T. I know
(03:24):
you've seen this the Direct Consumer tests and they were
doing it with genetics and all this stuff before it
and now doing it with allergies. Yes, I saw it
on TikTok. You know, I'm on TikTok all the time,
and I was like, I'm not buying something like this
off the TikTok shop. I don't feel like this is
a sound test, But I want to know is there
something to say about these at home allergy tests? Should
we be doing them? I don't know. I'm pulling my
(03:47):
blue light glasses down and looking over the top because
I'm like, is that FSA and HSA eligible or are these credible?
And once you start introducing user error, I am unsure. Right,
every time I had to get myself a COVID test
was like a doctor needs to do this, Like I
can't do this to myself. Stick this up my nose. Nah,
you're probably swapping the outside of your nostril. Girls, my
(04:11):
eyelids COVID negative. This is why we need to have
the experts, and we have the perfect expert for this episode.
We have allergists and immunologists. Doctor perv Perik.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I practice in New York City and being a private
practice called Allergy and Asthma Associates of Murray Hill, but
I'm also on faculty at NYU Langone. I'm a clinical
assistant professor in both the medicine and pediatrics departments, and
then the advocacy is a big passion of mine. So
I'm also a spokesperson for a nonprofit called the Allergy
(04:48):
Asthma Network, and it's a nonprofit for patients and their
families who suffer with allergies, asthma and rare you know,
immune system problems.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
And that's exactly why we are so glad you are here,
because we hear all types of things and we're not
sure what's true. Some of it feels like old lives tales,
and so having you as the expert is absolutely perfect.
We really want to start with the basics, like when
someone says I am allergic to something, what does that
(05:16):
mean inside of your body? What is happening?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So, you know, a lot of people don't realize, but
you know, allergies are basically like an overreaction of your
immune system. So a lot of people label themselves as allergic,
but really your immune system has to be involved in
order for it to be an allergy. So your immune
system normally helps you fight off infections and you know,
cancer cells and other bad things you don't want happening
(05:40):
to you. But when allergies occurs, basically your immune system
has decided to fight something it shouldn't be fighting. So
that could be a food like peanut or milk or eggs,
or it could also be an environmental trigger like pollen
or dust, smites, or animals, and even medications. We even
have people develop allergies to medications, so that's essentially an
allergy is it's basically an overreaction of your immune system
(06:04):
to something.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So why are our bodies being so dramatic? I mean
a lot. It's our immune system confusing, right, something that's
harmless for something that's harmful.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So there's a lot of different theories as to why
that happens. In this day and age, we've noted that
allergies and asthma have increased, and there's one theory behind
that called the hygiene hypothesis, and that theory is that
you know, we are living like too clean because you know,
back in the day, when we were living on farms
and touching soil more and eating like real whole foods,
(06:37):
there were far less like allergies and asthma, but also
other things like there was less autoimmune diseases, less cancers,
and all of this is believed to be linked that
as we like are not exposed to like kind of
the good bacteria or the good micro organisms that help
keep our immune system balanced, a lot of our immune
systems are shifting towards allergies. So areas of the world
(06:57):
that are still rural and not as industrialized, you know,
as the Western society actually has very low rates of
allergies and asthma and even the autoimmune diseases and things
like that because their immune systems are processing parasites and
they're on farms and being exposed to so many things,
and they're not eating like processed foods, which disrupts like
(07:20):
your gut microbiome, right, and so all of those things,
believe it or not, help you not become allergic. So
that's part of it. It's like modern living, you know.
But the immune system is very nimble, it's very adaptive,
but sometimes things can go wrong and it can react
in a way you don't want it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
To listen, the immune system will embarrass you. But I
also feel like this is all part of the same
thing we keep discovering this season, which is that these
bodies are ancient. Yes, it's nimble and can adapt in
short time periods like oh new protein, new thing. Okay,
I'm sorry, as I've seen that. But why are these
cells dumping histamines and have in my eyes and re
(08:00):
like it looks like I have conjunctivitis? So why is
the immune system behaving like that? Like it's used to
fighting parasites or words? Back before we have medicine, baby,
we have bit adrill. Now I don't need that. So
when we talk about having an allergic reaction to certain things,
can you run through what those reactions can look like
(08:23):
and why those types of reactions occur Because I know,
for like seasonal allergies, someone may have like itchy and
watery eyes, a running nose, they might have a cough.
But then when you have food allergies, it's like, oh,
my throat is going to close up. Why are there
differences in the reactions right right?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And that's a great question. So you know, the immune
system processes things different ways, and essentially the way that
it reacts to a food can release a whole cascade
of events called anaphylaxis. And to be honest, any allergen
can cause it either mild or severe reaction. That when
you ingest something it's you know, entered your digestive trap.
(09:04):
Then it enters your bloodstream, and so the reaction is
far more dramatic than if let's say you inhale something
you know, or something is absorbed through your skin. It
may be a slower moving reaction. Usually like for a
airborne allergen like pollen or dust might or mold, you're
inhaling it and then it goes into your respiratory track,
so it really activates the immune system in your respiratory tract.
(09:26):
So that's why you get the itchis the stuff he knows,
things like that. But even that can be severe for
some people because people don't realize this, but those airborne
allergens can trigger asthma. If it goes low enough into
your lungs and into your bronchials, it can actually trigger
an asthma attack, and that actually is deadly as well.
We actually have eleven deaths a day in this country
(09:48):
still from asthma, and the most common cause is allergies,
and many people don't know that there's that connection. But
then you know, kind of going back to the throat closing,
kind of big anaphylactic type of reaction. We think about
a lot of times. We see that with foods, because
you know you're ingesting the food, it's going into your body,
into your bloodstream. We see that a lot with injectable
(10:08):
medications and oral medications as well, for the same reason.
It's just kind of the root of entry. But yeah,
believe it or not, even those airborne things can be
very severe for some people.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Wow. I knew that people could die from asthma attacks,
but I didn't think that it would be allergy related.
I thought that it would be something else. That's wild,
because I'm always so worried about your allergies and as well.
Oh my gosh, every time we've traveled together as a kid,
it's like, do you have your inhaler? And I'll be like, no,
(10:38):
it'll be all right, I promise. And that last time
when we went to Brussels, that poor air quality you meet,
I was so glad I had it. But I never
thought to link allergies and asthma. That's wild.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, And that's actually the most common cause. And then
a lot of those asthma deaths are largely preventable, So
that's why it's really important to make sure if you
do have that, that you're on the right treatment regimen,
that your asthma's well controlled, because it's those individuals who
aren't well controlled that where it turns deadly.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I've also seen things that talk about how climate change
also contributes to that. Do you how does that even work?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
No, I'm glad you brought that up, but because then
it's a big factor. So what happens with climate change
is that you know, the Earth is getting warmer, and
because of that, pollen seasons are considerably longer. You know,
they've increased as much as two weeks now than they
normally would be. So when it's warmer and there's a
longer pollen season, that means when the plants start producing
(11:38):
pollen earlier and it lasts longer. But also with climate change,
there's something called greenhouse gases. So we have increased levels
of carbon dioxide in the air, and plants feed off
of carbon dioxide the same way we take in oxygen
and let out CO two, they take in CO two
and let out oxygen. So not only are the seasons
longer because it's warmer, but because of those higher carbon
(12:00):
dioxide levels of plants are now becoming like super pollinators,
so they're producing more pollen and for longer periods of time.
So that's kind of the perfect storm for much worse
and more severe allergy season. And that now is going
back to what we were talking about before, causing people
to have more severe allergy symptoms and even develop asthma
(12:21):
for the first time. So every spring and every fall,
I see patients come in never had asthma before in
their life, now get a diagnosis of asthma and it's
from their seasonal allergies. And they're always surprised when I
tell them that, but because there is that link, and unfortunately,
the pollen seasons are getting worse.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I did not have asthma, and then I went to
college and then all of a sudden developed asthma symptoms.
And so I've been using in the hailer ever since.
And it really felt like came out of nowhere and
I developed a peanut allergy. It just feels like the
entire world is turning against me. I'm like, what next
am I going to be allergic to? Like all of
(13:15):
my favorite foods, the sun, the wind, the rain. I
don't know a lot of people are experiencing that.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's just the things seem to be getting worse, and
people are getting more reactive to everything.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
As well, exactly. And one of the things that I
remember from many years ago is that when folks would
have babies, they would say, oh, don't have them around
any nuts or anything like that, in order to not
expose them to these things that seem like extreme allergens
and might cause them some respiratory issues. That's so true,
(13:46):
But then the tables turned. I said, I that's actually
causing up to in penut allergies. Can you talk a
little bit about what the initial thought was and then
kind of the reversal of that recommendation.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, we actually we've seen food allergies and children increase
in general over the last two to three decades. And
it's not only because of that reason that we were
giving it too late. It's also everything else that we
talked about, like the hygiene hypothesis and all of the above.
It's like a multifactorial thing. But interestingly enough, about ten
(14:19):
to fifteen years ago, some like researchers saw that there's
like very low rates peanut allergy in certain areas of
the world, specifically in Israel. And they were like, why
is that And they looked and they saw that they
were actually feeding their children this snack called bamba, which
has peanut allergen in it, like very early on, and
so they were like, oh, maybe there's something to this
(14:39):
that by introducing the allergens earlier that might prevent the onset.
You know, because when babies are born, their immune systems
are still developing, so that's probably the ideal time to
you know, introduce something so that they don't develop it,
but rather than wait till after their immune systems have
already you know, chosen one path or another. So they
(14:59):
did this very large, multi center placebo control randomized study
about a decade ago where they gave one group the
peanut allergy in early and then the other group place
ebo and they found that, yeah, those kids that were
introduced earlier did developed the peanut allergy at a much
lower rate. And so that became like our new recommendations
(15:19):
and guidelines. So now you know, for the past ten
plus years, all of us have been pediatricians allergious family
doctors have been encouraging early introduction at four to six
months of age actually, and as a result, we just
got some news that that has caused a forty three
percent drop in peanut allergy in the last decade and
(15:39):
that's amazing. So that's like sixty thousand children they estimate
that did not develop peanut allergy that would have and
those are lives saved, because we still see people pass
away unfortunately, you know, from food allergies. And now the
recommendation isn't just for peanuts. We actually recommend it for
all of the nine allergiens, the high risk allergians, to
introduce the foods early, between four to six months. And
(16:02):
the caveat is for most babies that's safe and you
should do it. But if you have already been diagnosed
with an egg allergy by that point in time, or
you have very severe ezema, then you shouldn't just jump
to the early introduction. You should first consultant allergists because
those are two like high risk conditions for early introductions.
So for the majority of people it's recommended, but if
(16:24):
you're in those exception groups, you know, just do so
with the guidance of an allergist. And then, of course
I always have to throw this plug in there, but
you never want to introduce a four month old like
a whole nut. Right, you have to do it in
a form that's safe to eat, you know, so I
don't choke, you know, like very very thin down like
consistency of milk or breast milk type, you know, with
(16:44):
the peanut butter.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Absolutely. I think that that segues into my next question
really really well, which is like at home remedies for allergies.
I see a lot of stuff on TikTok that I
don't think is grounded in research or in a medical
professional's opinion. There are folks who are doing like allergy
cleanses where they cut out whole food groups, or people
(17:07):
who because they know that the hygiene hypothesis, they opt
for a really what I feel like is unsanitary living
for their children. What misconceptions can you dispel when it
comes to things like this?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
One thing that I would say when it comes to
these myths is that you know everything is good in moderation,
you know, so especially you know, it's hard to tell
people not to use certain like hand sanitizers and certain
chemicals and things. Right when we're coming out of a pandemic,
right where we were all trying to stay clean and
not passed on germs from place to place. But one
(17:45):
way I like to dispel myth is like always, you know,
discuss things with your doctor. If you hear conflicting information,
you know, one thing on the internet versus another place,
and you're not sure who to believe, it's always best
to like sit down talk to your doctor because medicine
isn't black and white. There's a lot of nuance and
your situation might be different than another person's situations. So
(18:06):
that's why these like shared decision making conversations, especially with
your physician, are really important to dispel a lot of
these myths.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, do you think that everyone should have an allergy test?
Or do you think that there's a certain criteria that
you should meet before you get an allergy test?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So that's a great question. So no, we don't recommend
everyone having an allergy test, and the reason for that
is with any test, you know, there are false positives
that come along as well as false negative So if
you're not having any symptoms to anything, then you are
definitely not allergic to it, you know. So a lot
of people come in and say, oh, I just want
(18:45):
to be tested for everything to see if I have
any allergies. So I say, okay, well, what's been bothering you?
And then they're like, oh, nothing, I feel fine. So
I'm like, I can already tell you have no allergies,
because even if that test shows that you're allergic to everything,
I'll still tell you that you have no allergies because
the energy testing is only helpful in combination with the
actual clinical symptoms.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So if you're not having any symptoms, but you test positive,
you know, for a food allergy, and you tell me
you're eating that food every day without any issue, you
are not allergic to it, you know. So your body's
response to something is the more important part of the
picture than the test. The test only confirms it basically,
you know. So yeah, and that's why it's really important
(19:27):
that you are seeing the right credential professional to diagnose you.
And that's not just for allergies and anything in medicine,
because we see this a lot that a lot of
people are selling like allergy tests online and you know,
they're they're doing all these things where you know there
it's like direct to consumer marketing. But that's very dangerous
because I've seen patients come in with all of these
(19:49):
positive tests and they're not actually allergic to any of
the things that they were told they were allergic to it,
and they paid, like, you know, hundreds of dollars or
even thousands of dollars for these work ups. So that's
why it's really important you see someone who has been
trained in that specialty and it's a validated test because
there's a lot of allergy tests out there too that
aren't evidence based or science based, and so you have
(20:12):
to be very careful people being wrongly diagnosed of things,
and then it can impact things because then it affects
your nutrition, especially in the case of children, if they're
being told they're allergic to things they're not being allergic to.
That people are avoiding all of these things that they
should be taking but aren't, you know. So it has
(20:32):
long term implications as well to label someone with an
allergy when they don't really have one, or any medical
condition for that matter.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Okay, now we're getting to the good part, because I
feel like people are claiming allergy and I don't know
if this black and white, like is there a spectrum,
because I know that some people say I have sensitivities
rather than an allergy, Right, what does that mean in practice,
like how do those things manifest? And what should folks
be looking out for in order to determine whether or
not they have right food intolerance or a sensitivity or
(21:03):
an allergy.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Right, Right, that's an important question because often people interchange
intolerance and sensitivity and allergy and they're not the same thing.
So an allergy is when your immune system is involved, right,
And that one is important to diagnose properly because that
can be life threatening or you know, fatal. But in allergies,
when your immune system is rejecting a food or hyper
(21:27):
reactive to a food or something else whereas an intolerance,
I like to cause more of like a side effect
of the food, you know, so it's not necessarily dangerous.
Sensitivity or intolerance isn't dangerous, but it might happen to
a lot of people, but with varying degrees. So some
people will come in and say, I think I'm allergic
to gluten or wheat because it makes me bloated. Right,
(21:50):
So I'm like, well, that's not really an allergy. What
that is is it's a side effect of the food.
So to some degree, gluten makes everybody a little bit blown, right,
But some people feel it more so than other people.
And that's not necessarily a life threatening allergy or something
that will you know, kill you. You know, your immune system
has had to have developed antibodies against this particular item,
(22:14):
and it's a specific antibody called IgE, like elephant, and
that that is what we measure basically, when we're doing
allergy testing, we measure IgE antibodies either in your blood
or through like the skin tests that many of you
might be familiar with in the allergist office. And so
it's very important to distinguish between like an allergy versus
(22:35):
an intolerance and a sensitivity, because many people think they're
the same, but they're not.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Wow, that was such a great example that you used
with gluten, because I feel like when we all became
aware of gluten, then all of a sudden, you see
all these things that are gluten free because people think
it's like a dietary thing, and like, well, no, it's
if you have a gluten allergy, then you would want
(23:01):
something that's gluten free, right right. So I'm wondering if
we're going to see the same effects that we saw
with the peanut allergy and restricting peanuts with gluten because
people are restricting gluten when they don't even have an
allergy to gluten. They think that it's about health, you
know what I mean. So you think, like the way
(23:21):
we saw an uptick in kids having peanut allergies, that
we could have an uptick in kids having gluten allergies exactly, Like,
is that on the horizon? Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, it's possible, but it's less likely for a few reasons.
Even though wheat is one of the top nine allergens,
luckily it's not as allergenic as things like peanuts or
nuts because interestingly, and that's like, foods that are higher
in protein tend to cause more of like an immunogenic
response or immunologic response. So since wheat or gluten isn't
(23:52):
as high in protein as let's say, peanuts or tree
nuts or some of the other high risk allergens. As
an adult, if you stop eating gluten, you're pretty unlikely
to develop a gluten allergy. But to your point, if
you start doing that as a baby, then yes, that
could increase your risk of a glute analogy because remember
then that first four years of life, their immune systems
(24:12):
are really rapidly developing, and we to gluten are one
of the ones we encourage the early introduction of along
with pnut and treat men and everything else, because it
is one of the top nine allergies. So yes, for kids,
restricting it can be a problem and then it can
increase the risk of developing an allergy.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You know. I want to talk about these tests in
the tech that's associated with it. So t T is
an engineer, so I feel like she understands how you
create and build these tests. And my background is like
selling electro biology, and so I'm like, yes, give younology,
give it all to me, But what kind of tech
is involved? How are these tests even designed?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
There's two types of allergy testing, either a blood test
or a skin test for allergies, and they both measure
the same thing. Again, they measure that IgE empty body
against a specific allergen. So you can look for IgE
to pollen, IG to gus mites, IG for peanuts, IG
for milk, eggs, so for any food or environmental allergen
(25:29):
or even medications too. And so these are the two
tests that are validated, meaning that there's scientific evidence that
tells us that these tests can be accurate. If the
person has a story that fits with the allergy. You know,
they're not accurate if someone has zero symptoms, you know,
but we know these tests can accurately diagnose if you
(25:49):
have like symptoms and a history that's concerning for it. Now,
where we run into trouble is that there's a lot
of unvalidated tests out there that are not scientifically based,
and many of them measure a different type of antibody.
There's another blood test that measures IgG antibody G like George,
And that's why I keep repeating it because it's important
(26:10):
to know the difference. So the IgG testing is supposed
to be for intolerances, but the problem is it comes
up positive on everybody you know. So if you tested
my blot for the IgG's, all IgG tells you is
that you've been exposed to something in the past. So
it's very helpful for when you're trying to see if
you have like immunity against like an infection. For example,
(26:31):
we frequently will check IgG to see Okay, if you
got a vaccine, do you have immunity and that there
it's very helpful, or have you been exposed to some
you know, bug in the past, But it's not helpful
when you're looking for allergies because so many people have
positive IgGs to everything, and it's just telling you exposure.
It's not saying that your immune system likes something or
(26:53):
doesn't like something, but the IgE like elephant, that really
goes up if you are having an allergy. So that's
why that testing is very helpful. And our skin testing
measures the same thing because we scratch the surface of
the skin with the different allergens and basically if you're allergic,
you get like a hive or a mosquito bite looking
(27:13):
thing over those specific allergens, and that's basically like stimulating
the IgE and the allergy cells, the Langer hand cells
in your skin, you know, to cause that reaction. So
those tests are like validated and evidence based, but pretty
much every other allergy test out there is not. There's
one where I've heard of where you send in your
hair sample and it's like it's always like a lot
(27:36):
of crazy things I've heard, you know, and I'm like,
you know, there's no scientific evidence behind those type of tests.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So you said that there are two types of tests.
What is on the horizon for allergy testing? Like, how
do you see the field developing with the technology.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, So the interesting thing that allergies is that they're
like immediate allergic reactions and delayed allergic reactions. And for
the most part, we're very good at diagnosing immediate hyper
sensitivity or immediate allergic reactions, but we don't have as
good testing for delayed allergic reactions. So I think the
future is probably there, you know, because there are certain
(28:13):
types of allergies like exzema for example, more like a
contact allergy or even poison ivy is a delayed hyper
sensitivity reaction, and currently we do have one good test
for that, something called patch testing, where we can test
for ingredients different products that you use, and you go
home with that test. Actually you keep it on your
(28:34):
back for forty eight hours and come back because it
is a delayed type of allergy. But there's so many
other like delayed allergic reactions even to medications or foods
or what have you, that we don't have good tests for.
So I think that will be the future of allergy testing,
and that will make it a lot easier to diagnose.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Genetic testing will probably be used more too in allergy testing,
and I think in everything in medicine, like as we
understand more about how our genes play roles and things,
and there's a lot of biomarkers now that we're already
using in the treatment of asthma. So now before it
used to be thought that asthma was like a one
size fits all category, but now we realize that even
(29:15):
in allergic asthma, that there are subtypes, and we're able
to now better treat our asthmatications because now there's a
lot of medications that target those subtypes. So now we
can even check certain things in the blood and choose
appropriate medications too for patients. I think there's a lot
that's coming down the pipelines, you know, and there's a
lot in treatment too. So now we're starting to have
(29:37):
medications that lessen the severity of food allergy, which we
didn't have ten years ago. So it's very exciting that
we might have a world where we're not only decreasing
food allergy, but even making it more safe for those
who have it and lessening the severity of their allergies.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
You know, it really parked up my ears about what
you just said. It was the genetic component of it.
So I'm not just trying to become a whole geneticis okay, girl,
you know me? And so are there any genetic ties
with allergies, Like if your mom is allergic to something,
are you more likely to have that same allergy?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, so there are genetic ties. The problem is it's
not completely clear yet. I think research will make it
more clear. So we're not quite there yet, but hopefully
in the next like thirty years or fifty years. But
what we do know now is that just having one
parent with any type of allergy increases the child's chance
by up to fifty percent five zero. So definitely there
(30:34):
is a parental factor, but there's also a very large
environmental factor because we're seeing a lot of nuancet food allergies,
for example, in children who's neither a parent had a
food allergy, you know. And I think it's a combination
of things too. It's not all genetics, but there is
a strong environmental component to it, because allergies are one
of the few or the only medical condition I can
(30:56):
really think of right now off the time I head
where it's as much as external problem as it is
an internal problem, you know, So the way you know,
it's not like diabetes or something where you can take
a medicine to control it like this, and for people
who are allergic, literally their environment can trigger them at
any time, you know. So it's a very different type
(31:17):
of medical issue in which you not only have to
control it internally, but also externally too.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So when we are moving through this world and we
are using social media, and there's a lot on social
media that just is not correct, well, can you talk
a little bit about some of the misconceptions and the
false information that you see out there in regards to allergies,
immunology and how we can safeguard ourselves from falling for
(31:47):
some of these, I guess tricks to get our money.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Right, right, Yeah, So there's so much misinformation out there.
I don't know where to start, but I'll try my best.
I would be wary if you're getting information from anybody
online who's trying to sell anything, because I've noticed that
that when there's a monetary component to it, that often
those are the people that I've noticed to be kind
(32:12):
of perpetuating false information or false treatments or false testing.
And then I'm sure that they would argue. But yeah,
but every you know, doctor also gets paid. But it's
it's very different because this is something that you know,
physicians have been trained for where it's very a very
regulated profession, right, so we can't just go around saying
(32:33):
whatever we want to other and you know, whetherwas we
lose our license, you know, we can even get criminal
penalties for that. And always look for credentials online because
I've noticed that a lot of people who are perpetuating information,
they'll call themselves doctor, but then if you dig deeper,
there's actually no like doctorate there, or or it's a
doctorate that's not in medical sciences, you know. So of course,
(32:57):
like I respect all doctorates, but I and be able
to you know, I'm a doctor, but I know nothing
about engineering, right like you can't you can't call me
a doctorate an engineer. I can't call myself that, right.
So I've noticed that there's a lot of like misrepresentation online.
But some of the myths that I hear a lot
are about immune boosting because I'm immunologists, so there's no
(33:20):
there's no quick, easy fix for immune boosting. So I've
seen everything sold from you know, shakes to tablets to powders,
so none of those things can boost your immune system. Unfortunately,
the only thing that can give you a healthy immune
system is like very boring and it takes a lot
of time. But you know, eating well, sleeping well, exercising,
you know, cup being yourself active at a healthy weight,
(33:43):
all of the things that like seem like common sense
but that you know a lot of people don't want
to do. Those are things that will actually preserve your
immune system. And ironically, the one thing that can booster
your immune system very fast, it has become controversial, I'm
not sure why. And that's vaccine. So that means the
vaccine is the only way you can boos your immune
system in two weeks or less. There's anyone tells you
(34:07):
there's any other way. They're lying to you. The rest
of the ways the Bouchier immune system comes through, you know,
just consistency in your life. So sleeping, you know, seven
to eight hours a night, drinking those you know, ten
to twelve glasses of water, whatever the recommended limit is,
Eating healthy, you know, avoiding those junk and processed foods
and alcohol, all those things we already know are bad
(34:29):
for us. You know, maintaining a healthy way all of
that does help your immune system, but obviously it doesn't
happen overnight. But it's interesting because the one thing that
is proven to boocher immune system, now everybody's against it
and it makes no sense. And that's just another example
of misinformation. And then kind of in the allergy world,
there's so many myths. I think people think still that
allergies don't exist, you know, and I think people think
(34:52):
food allergies are not real, which is really dangerous. There's
actually been like bullying and deaths where like, you know,
kids have been like forced to eat something they're allergic
to and then you know, gotten very sick or died.
And I think dispelling those myths is really important. There's
actually a Super Bowl ad where they actually made light
of someone having a peanut allergy. Yeah, it was an
(35:14):
Uber Eats ad with all these celebrities in it, and
actually everyone of us in the allergy community got really upset,
and when we started speaking out about it in the media,
social media, and they pulled that part of the ad out,
you know, which is good because but no one would
make that joke about heart disease or diabetes, but they
make that joke about allergies all the time, which are
(35:36):
just as deadly, you know. So that's a big myth
that I really would love to dispel, you know, because
it can actually hurt somebody if you don't take it seriously.
And then the same thing, I think a lot of
people think that even seasonal allergies aren't a big deal,
and for a lot of people they aren't. But then,
like I said, there are those people where it triggers asthma,
and for some people it can be very severe and debilitating.
(35:58):
So I'm glad these kinds conversations are happening and people
are talking about allergies, because even as as soon as
five or ten years ago, you know, it was not
really talked about and people didn't take it seriously. So
those are probably the most common mix I see.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I blame the media, you know, and it sounds wild,
but I feel like back in the nineties when I
was growing up, every single sitcom cartoon it was always
a really nerdy kid that had asthma or had allergies,
and it was like, oh my gosh, because you know,
they had the glasses and they always had clean eggs,
(36:35):
and they had their asthma inhaler, and so it made
having allergies like a not cool thing and stuff for
like nerdy outcasts, and I'm just like, I don't think
I'm a nerdy outcast. Do you think that makes me
strange because I wanted both the inhaler and glasses. Yes,
you are strange, but I do feel like food allergies
(36:56):
seemed like this weird thing to me, And I didn't
know anybody with food allergies, Like you weren't really like
you weren't really allowed to have food allergies, like it
wasn't a thing. But also I knew somebody at my
after school program that had a latex allergy, and I
was like, we don't want to kill her, Like I
didn't know what would happened, but I was like, we
don't want to kill her. We have to use these
they use these different gloves to serve the food and stuff.
(37:18):
And I took that really serious. But why didn't we
take like pena allergies a SI Exactly. It's like there's
this hierarchy, there's a respectability politics with allergies, like allergy types. Yeah,
we're seeing the same thing when people talk about gluten
allergies now, like they're making it like, oh, you're just
being difficult or particular, and it's like No, this could
really be messing somebody up.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You're completely right. It has a stigma to it and
that's unfortunate. And you're right, it's propagated even by like
the movie industry, because I've seen it in movies even recently,
way after the nineties, Like I know, there was like
a Peter Rabbit movie where they were making fun of
food allergies and things. So that's the problem because people
kids see that and adult that and they think that's
(38:00):
they normalize that. So I completely agree with you, and yeah,
it's definitely a problem.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I think this episode is so so important because the
science communication that you're doing in order to shift perspectives
on allergies is really crucial because people are dying and
we have to take it more seriously. It should not
be the butt of a joke in right, in any
ad or in any movie. We should really be taking
it as serious as it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Right. No, absolutely, And I want to thank you also
for doing a whole podcast episode on this because these conversations,
I think are how we will help kind of change
that narrative. So thank you, you know, for bringing attention
to it.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Thank you so much. That was so informative to T
because I understand the immune system, but I don't think
I was really appreciating the allergies the way I should. Honestly, Yes,
And I think that that seems to be a common
theme with a lot of our labs this semester. It's
(39:05):
about reframing how we look at people, how we look
at pain, how we look at fear, how we look
at allergies, and really putting some respect on everybody's name,
you know what I mean. Where it's just like our
lives are so complex. Everybody's got a lot of things
going on, and we just have to have like a
(39:25):
level of respect for folks and whatever they bring to
the table. You know that's right. If you see me
out here sneezing, just know that three hundred million years ago,
I would have survived a parasitic a tech because I
have a very active immune system. You damn right. You
(39:51):
can find us on X and Instagram at Dope Labs
podcast ct is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore
t SHL and you can find I'm zakiya at Ze
said so. Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media.
Our supervising producer is Keegan Zimma and our producer is
Issara Acevez. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed
(40:13):
by James Farber. Limanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and
Production is Jackie dan Singer. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast
is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Canter. Original music
composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura,
with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive
(40:35):
produced by us T T Show Dia and Zakiah WATTLEI
Maybe it's mabeling, but seasonal allergies have become always on
for me, Like I don't even remember when the switch was,
but I just know a zerteka day keeps my embarrassing
sneezes and my running nose away. Yes, it feels like
I am constantly reaching for my inhaler because I have
the type of allergies that causes breathing problems and it
(00:24):
is the worst. You know what it's like to just
be out and being like, ooh, where's my inhaler? I
feel like it's embarrassing. It shouldn't be embarrassing because it's
just for my health, but it is. No, I always
thought it inhaler was cool. Something about that, you know,
like you just taking on that kind of wind. That
(00:46):
was cool to me. Oh my gosh. I don't know
if I've ever heard that. But I don't know what's
going on. You don't know what's going on, So we
should really think about talking about this today. I'm t
T and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs. Welcome
(01:08):
to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science
with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. It
feels like, and I'm gonna put you know, underline on fields.
Feels like everybody has allergies. Honestly, I don't know a
single person who doesn't. These days, like when it's springtime,
(01:31):
everybody's you know, itchy eyes, water running nose, and even
in the fall, I feel like lots of people have
allergies and they're like, oh, these are my fall allergies.
I don't remember it being like this when I was
a kid. Now, as a kid, I did have bad allergies.
I had to take this little pill and it had
these little bitter pebbles inside. They weren't pebbles, they were medicine.
But I couldn't swallow pills. And some of my mom
(01:53):
used to put it in apple sauce. That was my
allergy medicine, but I only took it certain times of
the year. And now I have I know I'm having
year long allergies, and we're in the recitation because I
want to know why. Yeah, I want to know why
I'm having year long allergies. Now, okay, so then what
do we know? We know we're seeing some shifting allergies.
(02:14):
I know, even if that's just my personal anecdotal evidence
for me m m. Yeah. And we've talked about this
during some of our live shows that we've done about
how you know there's so much more pollen and it's
because of these different these trees that have been planted.
But I thought that was debunked. I don't know, see, Okay,
So now let's just talk about what we want to know.
(02:38):
Is it just the pollen? It can't just be the pollen,
because also, doesn't it feel like food allergies are going up? Absolutely?
Absolutely they were at least for a while for a while,
and it seems like they're going down because of some changes.
But it also feels like there are a lot of
people who are gluten intolerant. Wait wait, wait wait wait
you said gluten intolerant. That brings up another question. Is
(03:00):
intolerance and allergy the same thing? Ry? So see, I
use allergy and intolerance the same and so, but it
can't be the same. They're two different words, right, So
I need to know the difference between those two because
I'm not allergic to lactose, but I am lactose intolerance.
Good point. See, And I also t T. I know
(03:24):
you've seen this the Direct Consumer tests and they were
doing it with genetics and all this stuff before it
and now doing it with allergies. Yes, I saw it
on TikTok. You know, I'm on TikTok all the time,
and I was like, I'm not buying something like this
off the TikTok shop. I don't feel like this is
a sound test, But I want to know is there
something to say about these at home allergy tests? Should
we be doing them? I don't know. I'm pulling my
(03:47):
blue light glasses down and looking over the top because
I'm like, is that FSA and HSA eligible or are these credible?
And once you start introducing user error, I am unsure. Right,
every time I had to get myself a COVID test
was like a doctor needs to do this, Like I
can't do this to myself. Stick this up my nose. Nah,
you're probably swapping the outside of your nostril. Girls, my
(04:11):
eyelids COVID negative. This is why we need to have
the experts, and we have the perfect expert for this episode.
We have allergists and immunologists. Doctor perv Perik.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I practice in New York City and being a private
practice called Allergy and Asthma Associates of Murray Hill, but
I'm also on faculty at NYU Langone. I'm a clinical
assistant professor in both the medicine and pediatrics departments, and
then the advocacy is a big passion of mine. So
I'm also a spokesperson for a nonprofit called the Allergy
(04:48):
Asthma Network, and it's a nonprofit for patients and their
families who suffer with allergies, asthma and rare you know,
immune system problems.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
And that's exactly why we are so glad you are here,
because we hear all types of things and we're not
sure what's true. Some of it feels like old lives tales,
and so having you as the expert is absolutely perfect.
We really want to start with the basics, like when
someone says I am allergic to something, what does that
(05:16):
mean inside of your body? What is happening?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So, you know, a lot of people don't realize, but
you know, allergies are basically like an overreaction of your
immune system. So a lot of people label themselves as allergic,
but really your immune system has to be involved in
order for it to be an allergy. So your immune
system normally helps you fight off infections and you know,
cancer cells and other bad things you don't want happening
(05:40):
to you. But when allergies occurs, basically your immune system
has decided to fight something it shouldn't be fighting. So
that could be a food like peanut or milk or eggs,
or it could also be an environmental trigger like pollen
or dust, smites, or animals, and even medications. We even
have people develop allergies to medications, so that's essentially an
allergy is it's basically an overreaction of your immune system
(06:04):
to something.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So why are our bodies being so dramatic? I mean
a lot. It's our immune system confusing, right, something that's
harmless for something that's harmful.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So there's a lot of different theories as to why
that happens. In this day and age, we've noted that
allergies and asthma have increased, and there's one theory behind
that called the hygiene hypothesis, and that theory is that
you know, we are living like too clean because you know,
back in the day, when we were living on farms
and touching soil more and eating like real whole foods,
(06:37):
there were far less like allergies and asthma, but also
other things like there was less autoimmune diseases, less cancers,
and all of this is believed to be linked that
as we like are not exposed to like kind of
the good bacteria or the good micro organisms that help
keep our immune system balanced, a lot of our immune
systems are shifting towards allergies. So areas of the world
(06:57):
that are still rural and not as industrialized, you know,
as the Western society actually has very low rates of
allergies and asthma and even the autoimmune diseases and things
like that because their immune systems are processing parasites and
they're on farms and being exposed to so many things,
and they're not eating like processed foods, which disrupts like
(07:20):
your gut microbiome, right, and so all of those things,
believe it or not, help you not become allergic. So
that's part of it. It's like modern living, you know.
But the immune system is very nimble, it's very adaptive,
but sometimes things can go wrong and it can react
in a way you don't want it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
To listen, the immune system will embarrass you. But I
also feel like this is all part of the same
thing we keep discovering this season, which is that these
bodies are ancient. Yes, it's nimble and can adapt in
short time periods like oh new protein, new thing. Okay,
I'm sorry, as I've seen that. But why are these
cells dumping histamines and have in my eyes and re
(08:00):
like it looks like I have conjunctivitis? So why is
the immune system behaving like that? Like it's used to
fighting parasites or words? Back before we have medicine, baby,
we have bit adrill. Now I don't need that. So
when we talk about having an allergic reaction to certain things,
can you run through what those reactions can look like
(08:23):
and why those types of reactions occur Because I know,
for like seasonal allergies, someone may have like itchy and
watery eyes, a running nose, they might have a cough.
But then when you have food allergies, it's like, oh,
my throat is going to close up. Why are there
differences in the reactions right right?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And that's a great question. So you know, the immune
system processes things different ways, and essentially the way that
it reacts to a food can release a whole cascade
of events called anaphylaxis. And to be honest, any allergen
can cause it either mild or severe reaction. That when
you ingest something it's you know, entered your digestive trap.
(09:04):
Then it enters your bloodstream, and so the reaction is
far more dramatic than if let's say you inhale something
you know, or something is absorbed through your skin. It
may be a slower moving reaction. Usually like for a
airborne allergen like pollen or dust might or mold, you're
inhaling it and then it goes into your respiratory track,
so it really activates the immune system in your respiratory tract.
(09:26):
So that's why you get the itchis the stuff he knows,
things like that. But even that can be severe for
some people because people don't realize this, but those airborne
allergens can trigger asthma. If it goes low enough into
your lungs and into your bronchials, it can actually trigger
an asthma attack, and that actually is deadly as well.
We actually have eleven deaths a day in this country
(09:48):
still from asthma, and the most common cause is allergies,
and many people don't know that there's that connection. But
then you know, kind of going back to the throat closing,
kind of big anaphylactic type of reaction. We think about
a lot of times. We see that with foods, because
you know you're ingesting the food, it's going into your body,
into your bloodstream. We see that a lot with injectable
(10:08):
medications and oral medications as well, for the same reason.
It's just kind of the root of entry. But yeah,
believe it or not, even those airborne things can be
very severe for some people.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Wow. I knew that people could die from asthma attacks,
but I didn't think that it would be allergy related.
I thought that it would be something else. That's wild,
because I'm always so worried about your allergies and as well.
Oh my gosh, every time we've traveled together as a kid,
it's like, do you have your inhaler? And I'll be like, no,
(10:38):
it'll be all right, I promise. And that last time
when we went to Brussels, that poor air quality you meet,
I was so glad I had it. But I never
thought to link allergies and asthma. That's wild.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, And that's actually the most common cause. And then
a lot of those asthma deaths are largely preventable, So
that's why it's really important to make sure if you
do have that, that you're on the right treatment regimen,
that your asthma's well controlled, because it's those individuals who
aren't well controlled that where it turns deadly.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I've also seen things that talk about how climate change
also contributes to that. Do you how does that even work?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
No, I'm glad you brought that up, but because then
it's a big factor. So what happens with climate change
is that you know, the Earth is getting warmer, and
because of that, pollen seasons are considerably longer. You know,
they've increased as much as two weeks now than they
normally would be. So when it's warmer and there's a
longer pollen season, that means when the plants start producing
(11:38):
pollen earlier and it lasts longer. But also with climate change,
there's something called greenhouse gases. So we have increased levels
of carbon dioxide in the air, and plants feed off
of carbon dioxide the same way we take in oxygen
and let out CO two, they take in CO two
and let out oxygen. So not only are the seasons
longer because it's warmer, but because of those higher carbon
(12:00):
dioxide levels of plants are now becoming like super pollinators,
so they're producing more pollen and for longer periods of time.
So that's kind of the perfect storm for much worse
and more severe allergy season. And that now is going
back to what we were talking about before, causing people
to have more severe allergy symptoms and even develop asthma
(12:21):
for the first time. So every spring and every fall,
I see patients come in never had asthma before in
their life, now get a diagnosis of asthma and it's
from their seasonal allergies. And they're always surprised when I
tell them that, but because there is that link, and unfortunately,
the pollen seasons are getting worse.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I did not have asthma, and then I went to
college and then all of a sudden developed asthma symptoms.
And so I've been using in the hailer ever since.
And it really felt like came out of nowhere and
I developed a peanut allergy. It just feels like the
entire world is turning against me. I'm like, what next
am I going to be allergic to? Like all of
(13:15):
my favorite foods, the sun, the wind, the rain. I
don't know a lot of people are experiencing that.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's just the things seem to be getting worse, and
people are getting more reactive to everything.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
As well, exactly. And one of the things that I
remember from many years ago is that when folks would
have babies, they would say, oh, don't have them around
any nuts or anything like that, in order to not
expose them to these things that seem like extreme allergens
and might cause them some respiratory issues. That's so true,
(13:46):
But then the tables turned. I said, I that's actually
causing up to in penut allergies. Can you talk a
little bit about what the initial thought was and then
kind of the reversal of that recommendation.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, we actually we've seen food allergies and children increase
in general over the last two to three decades. And
it's not only because of that reason that we were
giving it too late. It's also everything else that we
talked about, like the hygiene hypothesis and all of the above.
It's like a multifactorial thing. But interestingly enough, about ten
(14:19):
to fifteen years ago, some like researchers saw that there's
like very low rates peanut allergy in certain areas of
the world, specifically in Israel. And they were like, why
is that And they looked and they saw that they
were actually feeding their children this snack called bamba, which
has peanut allergen in it, like very early on, and
so they were like, oh, maybe there's something to this
(14:39):
that by introducing the allergens earlier that might prevent the onset.
You know, because when babies are born, their immune systems
are still developing, so that's probably the ideal time to
you know, introduce something so that they don't develop it,
but rather than wait till after their immune systems have
already you know, chosen one path or another. So they
(14:59):
did this very large, multi center placebo control randomized study
about a decade ago where they gave one group the
peanut allergy in early and then the other group place
ebo and they found that, yeah, those kids that were
introduced earlier did developed the peanut allergy at a much
lower rate. And so that became like our new recommendations
(15:19):
and guidelines. So now you know, for the past ten
plus years, all of us have been pediatricians allergious family
doctors have been encouraging early introduction at four to six
months of age actually, and as a result, we just
got some news that that has caused a forty three
percent drop in peanut allergy in the last decade and
(15:39):
that's amazing. So that's like sixty thousand children they estimate
that did not develop peanut allergy that would have and
those are lives saved, because we still see people pass
away unfortunately, you know, from food allergies. And now the
recommendation isn't just for peanuts. We actually recommend it for
all of the nine allergiens, the high risk allergians, to
introduce the foods early, between four to six months. And
(16:02):
the caveat is for most babies that's safe and you
should do it. But if you have already been diagnosed
with an egg allergy by that point in time, or
you have very severe ezema, then you shouldn't just jump
to the early introduction. You should first consultant allergists because
those are two like high risk conditions for early introductions.
So for the majority of people it's recommended, but if
(16:24):
you're in those exception groups, you know, just do so
with the guidance of an allergist. And then, of course
I always have to throw this plug in there, but
you never want to introduce a four month old like
a whole nut. Right, you have to do it in
a form that's safe to eat, you know, so I
don't choke, you know, like very very thin down like
consistency of milk or breast milk type, you know, with
(16:44):
the peanut butter.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Absolutely. I think that that segues into my next question
really really well, which is like at home remedies for allergies.
I see a lot of stuff on TikTok that I
don't think is grounded in research or in a medical
professional's opinion. There are folks who are doing like allergy
cleanses where they cut out whole food groups, or people
(17:07):
who because they know that the hygiene hypothesis, they opt
for a really what I feel like is unsanitary living
for their children. What misconceptions can you dispel when it
comes to things like this?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
One thing that I would say when it comes to
these myths is that you know everything is good in moderation,
you know, so especially you know, it's hard to tell
people not to use certain like hand sanitizers and certain
chemicals and things. Right when we're coming out of a pandemic,
right where we were all trying to stay clean and
not passed on germs from place to place. But one
(17:45):
way I like to dispel myth is like always, you know,
discuss things with your doctor. If you hear conflicting information,
you know, one thing on the internet versus another place,
and you're not sure who to believe, it's always best
to like sit down talk to your doctor because medicine
isn't black and white. There's a lot of nuance and
your situation might be different than another person's situations. So
(18:06):
that's why these like shared decision making conversations, especially with
your physician, are really important to dispel a lot of
these myths.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, do you think that everyone should have an allergy test?
Or do you think that there's a certain criteria that
you should meet before you get an allergy test?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So that's a great question. So no, we don't recommend
everyone having an allergy test, and the reason for that
is with any test, you know, there are false positives
that come along as well as false negative So if
you're not having any symptoms to anything, then you are
definitely not allergic to it, you know. So a lot
of people come in and say, oh, I just want
(18:45):
to be tested for everything to see if I have
any allergies. So I say, okay, well, what's been bothering you?
And then they're like, oh, nothing, I feel fine. So
I'm like, I can already tell you have no allergies,
because even if that test shows that you're allergic to everything,
I'll still tell you that you have no allergies because
the energy testing is only helpful in combination with the
actual clinical symptoms.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So if you're not having any symptoms, but you test positive,
you know, for a food allergy, and you tell me
you're eating that food every day without any issue, you
are not allergic to it, you know. So your body's
response to something is the more important part of the
picture than the test. The test only confirms it basically,
you know. So yeah, and that's why it's really important
(19:27):
that you are seeing the right credential professional to diagnose you.
And that's not just for allergies and anything in medicine,
because we see this a lot that a lot of
people are selling like allergy tests online and you know,
they're they're doing all these things where you know there
it's like direct to consumer marketing. But that's very dangerous
because I've seen patients come in with all of these
(19:49):
positive tests and they're not actually allergic to any of
the things that they were told they were allergic to it,
and they paid, like, you know, hundreds of dollars or
even thousands of dollars for these work ups. So that's
why it's really important you see someone who has been
trained in that specialty and it's a validated test because
there's a lot of allergy tests out there too that
aren't evidence based or science based, and so you have
(20:12):
to be very careful people being wrongly diagnosed of things,
and then it can impact things because then it affects
your nutrition, especially in the case of children, if they're
being told they're allergic to things they're not being allergic to.
That people are avoiding all of these things that they
should be taking but aren't, you know. So it has
(20:32):
long term implications as well to label someone with an
allergy when they don't really have one, or any medical
condition for that matter.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Okay, now we're getting to the good part, because I
feel like people are claiming allergy and I don't know
if this black and white, like is there a spectrum,
because I know that some people say I have sensitivities
rather than an allergy, Right, what does that mean in practice,
like how do those things manifest? And what should folks
be looking out for in order to determine whether or
not they have right food intolerance or a sensitivity or
(21:03):
an allergy.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Right, Right, that's an important question because often people interchange
intolerance and sensitivity and allergy and they're not the same thing.
So an allergy is when your immune system is involved, right,
And that one is important to diagnose properly because that
can be life threatening or you know, fatal. But in allergies,
when your immune system is rejecting a food or hyper
(21:27):
reactive to a food or something else whereas an intolerance,
I like to cause more of like a side effect
of the food, you know, so it's not necessarily dangerous.
Sensitivity or intolerance isn't dangerous, but it might happen to
a lot of people, but with varying degrees. So some
people will come in and say, I think I'm allergic
to gluten or wheat because it makes me bloated. Right,
(21:50):
So I'm like, well, that's not really an allergy. What
that is is it's a side effect of the food.
So to some degree, gluten makes everybody a little bit blown, right,
But some people feel it more so than other people.
And that's not necessarily a life threatening allergy or something
that will you know, kill you. You know, your immune system
has had to have developed antibodies against this particular item,
(22:14):
and it's a specific antibody called IgE, like elephant, and
that that is what we measure basically, when we're doing
allergy testing, we measure IgE antibodies either in your blood
or through like the skin tests that many of you
might be familiar with in the allergist office. And so
it's very important to distinguish between like an allergy versus
(22:35):
an intolerance and a sensitivity, because many people think they're
the same, but they're not.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Wow, that was such a great example that you used
with gluten, because I feel like when we all became
aware of gluten, then all of a sudden, you see
all these things that are gluten free because people think
it's like a dietary thing, and like, well, no, it's
if you have a gluten allergy, then you would want
(23:01):
something that's gluten free, right right. So I'm wondering if
we're going to see the same effects that we saw
with the peanut allergy and restricting peanuts with gluten because
people are restricting gluten when they don't even have an
allergy to gluten. They think that it's about health, you
know what I mean. So you think, like the way
(23:21):
we saw an uptick in kids having peanut allergies, that
we could have an uptick in kids having gluten allergies exactly, Like,
is that on the horizon? Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, it's possible, but it's less likely for a few reasons.
Even though wheat is one of the top nine allergens,
luckily it's not as allergenic as things like peanuts or
nuts because interestingly, and that's like, foods that are higher
in protein tend to cause more of like an immunogenic
response or immunologic response. So since wheat or gluten isn't
(23:52):
as high in protein as let's say, peanuts or tree
nuts or some of the other high risk allergens. As
an adult, if you stop eating gluten, you're pretty unlikely
to develop a gluten allergy. But to your point, if
you start doing that as a baby, then yes, that
could increase your risk of a glute analogy because remember
then that first four years of life, their immune systems
(24:12):
are really rapidly developing, and we to gluten are one
of the ones we encourage the early introduction of along
with pnut and treat men and everything else, because it
is one of the top nine allergies. So yes, for kids,
restricting it can be a problem and then it can
increase the risk of developing an allergy.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You know. I want to talk about these tests in
the tech that's associated with it. So t T is
an engineer, so I feel like she understands how you
create and build these tests. And my background is like
selling electro biology, and so I'm like, yes, give younology,
give it all to me, But what kind of tech
is involved? How are these tests even designed?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
There's two types of allergy testing, either a blood test
or a skin test for allergies, and they both measure
the same thing. Again, they measure that IgE empty body
against a specific allergen. So you can look for IgE
to pollen, IG to gus mites, IG for peanuts, IG
for milk, eggs, so for any food or environmental allergen
(25:29):
or even medications too. And so these are the two
tests that are validated, meaning that there's scientific evidence that
tells us that these tests can be accurate. If the
person has a story that fits with the allergy. You know,
they're not accurate if someone has zero symptoms, you know,
but we know these tests can accurately diagnose if you
(25:49):
have like symptoms and a history that's concerning for it. Now,
where we run into trouble is that there's a lot
of unvalidated tests out there that are not scientifically based,
and many of them measure a different type of antibody.
There's another blood test that measures IgG antibody G like George,
And that's why I keep repeating it because it's important
(26:10):
to know the difference. So the IgG testing is supposed
to be for intolerances, but the problem is it comes
up positive on everybody you know. So if you tested
my blot for the IgG's, all IgG tells you is
that you've been exposed to something in the past. So
it's very helpful for when you're trying to see if
you have like immunity against like an infection. For example,
(26:31):
we frequently will check IgG to see Okay, if you
got a vaccine, do you have immunity and that there
it's very helpful, or have you been exposed to some
you know, bug in the past, But it's not helpful
when you're looking for allergies because so many people have
positive IgGs to everything, and it's just telling you exposure.
It's not saying that your immune system likes something or
(26:53):
doesn't like something, but the IgE like elephant, that really
goes up if you are having an allergy. So that's
why that testing is very helpful. And our skin testing
measures the same thing because we scratch the surface of
the skin with the different allergens and basically if you're allergic,
you get like a hive or a mosquito bite looking
(27:13):
thing over those specific allergens, and that's basically like stimulating
the IgE and the allergy cells, the Langer hand cells
in your skin, you know, to cause that reaction. So
those tests are like validated and evidence based, but pretty
much every other allergy test out there is not. There's
one where I've heard of where you send in your
hair sample and it's like it's always like a lot
(27:36):
of crazy things I've heard, you know, and I'm like,
you know, there's no scientific evidence behind those type of tests.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So you said that there are two types of tests.
What is on the horizon for allergy testing? Like, how
do you see the field developing with the technology.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, So the interesting thing that allergies is that they're
like immediate allergic reactions and delayed allergic reactions. And for
the most part, we're very good at diagnosing immediate hyper
sensitivity or immediate allergic reactions, but we don't have as
good testing for delayed allergic reactions. So I think the
future is probably there, you know, because there are certain
(28:13):
types of allergies like exzema for example, more like a
contact allergy or even poison ivy is a delayed hyper
sensitivity reaction, and currently we do have one good test
for that, something called patch testing, where we can test
for ingredients different products that you use, and you go
home with that test. Actually you keep it on your
(28:34):
back for forty eight hours and come back because it
is a delayed type of allergy. But there's so many
other like delayed allergic reactions even to medications or foods
or what have you, that we don't have good tests for.
So I think that will be the future of allergy testing,
and that will make it a lot easier to diagnose.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Genetic testing will probably be used more too in allergy testing,
and I think in everything in medicine, like as we
understand more about how our genes play roles and things,
and there's a lot of biomarkers now that we're already
using in the treatment of asthma. So now before it
used to be thought that asthma was like a one
size fits all category, but now we realize that even
(29:15):
in allergic asthma, that there are subtypes, and we're able
to now better treat our asthmatications because now there's a
lot of medications that target those subtypes. So now we
can even check certain things in the blood and choose
appropriate medications too for patients. I think there's a lot
that's coming down the pipelines, you know, and there's a
lot in treatment too. So now we're starting to have
(29:37):
medications that lessen the severity of food allergy, which we
didn't have ten years ago. So it's very exciting that
we might have a world where we're not only decreasing
food allergy, but even making it more safe for those
who have it and lessening the severity of their allergies.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
You know, it really parked up my ears about what
you just said. It was the genetic component of it.
So I'm not just trying to become a whole geneticis okay, girl,
you know me? And so are there any genetic ties
with allergies, Like if your mom is allergic to something,
are you more likely to have that same allergy?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, so there are genetic ties. The problem is it's
not completely clear yet. I think research will make it
more clear. So we're not quite there yet, but hopefully
in the next like thirty years or fifty years. But
what we do know now is that just having one
parent with any type of allergy increases the child's chance
by up to fifty percent five zero. So definitely there
(30:34):
is a parental factor, but there's also a very large
environmental factor because we're seeing a lot of nuancet food allergies,
for example, in children who's neither a parent had a
food allergy, you know. And I think it's a combination
of things too. It's not all genetics, but there is
a strong environmental component to it, because allergies are one
of the few or the only medical condition I can
(30:56):
really think of right now off the time I head
where it's as much as external problem as it is
an internal problem, you know, So the way you know,
it's not like diabetes or something where you can take
a medicine to control it like this, and for people
who are allergic, literally their environment can trigger them at
any time, you know. So it's a very different type
(31:17):
of medical issue in which you not only have to
control it internally, but also externally too.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So when we are moving through this world and we
are using social media, and there's a lot on social
media that just is not correct, well, can you talk
a little bit about some of the misconceptions and the
false information that you see out there in regards to allergies,
immunology and how we can safeguard ourselves from falling for
(31:47):
some of these, I guess tricks to get our money.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Right, right, Yeah, So there's so much misinformation out there.
I don't know where to start, but I'll try my best.
I would be wary if you're getting information from anybody
online who's trying to sell anything, because I've noticed that
that when there's a monetary component to it, that often
those are the people that I've noticed to be kind
(32:12):
of perpetuating false information or false treatments or false testing.
And then I'm sure that they would argue. But yeah,
but every you know, doctor also gets paid. But it's
it's very different because this is something that you know,
physicians have been trained for where it's very a very
regulated profession, right, so we can't just go around saying
(32:33):
whatever we want to other and you know, whetherwas we
lose our license, you know, we can even get criminal
penalties for that. And always look for credentials online because
I've noticed that a lot of people who are perpetuating information,
they'll call themselves doctor, but then if you dig deeper,
there's actually no like doctorate there, or or it's a
doctorate that's not in medical sciences, you know. So of course,
(32:57):
like I respect all doctorates, but I and be able
to you know, I'm a doctor, but I know nothing
about engineering, right like you can't you can't call me
a doctorate an engineer. I can't call myself that, right.
So I've noticed that there's a lot of like misrepresentation online.
But some of the myths that I hear a lot
are about immune boosting because I'm immunologists, so there's no
(33:20):
there's no quick, easy fix for immune boosting. So I've
seen everything sold from you know, shakes to tablets to powders,
so none of those things can boost your immune system. Unfortunately,
the only thing that can give you a healthy immune
system is like very boring and it takes a lot
of time. But you know, eating well, sleeping well, exercising,
you know, cup being yourself active at a healthy weight,
(33:43):
all of the things that like seem like common sense
but that you know a lot of people don't want
to do. Those are things that will actually preserve your
immune system. And ironically, the one thing that can booster
your immune system very fast, it has become controversial, I'm
not sure why. And that's vaccine. So that means the
vaccine is the only way you can boos your immune
system in two weeks or less. There's anyone tells you
(34:07):
there's any other way. They're lying to you. The rest
of the ways the Bouchier immune system comes through, you know,
just consistency in your life. So sleeping, you know, seven
to eight hours a night, drinking those you know, ten
to twelve glasses of water, whatever the recommended limit is,
Eating healthy, you know, avoiding those junk and processed foods
and alcohol, all those things we already know are bad
(34:29):
for us. You know, maintaining a healthy way all of
that does help your immune system, but obviously it doesn't
happen overnight. But it's interesting because the one thing that
is proven to boocher immune system, now everybody's against it
and it makes no sense. And that's just another example
of misinformation. And then kind of in the allergy world,
there's so many myths. I think people think still that
allergies don't exist, you know, and I think people think
(34:52):
food allergies are not real, which is really dangerous. There's
actually been like bullying and deaths where like, you know,
kids have been like forced to eat something they're allergic
to and then you know, gotten very sick or died.
And I think dispelling those myths is really important. There's
actually a Super Bowl ad where they actually made light
of someone having a peanut allergy. Yeah, it was an
(35:14):
Uber Eats ad with all these celebrities in it, and
actually everyone of us in the allergy community got really upset,
and when we started speaking out about it in the media,
social media, and they pulled that part of the ad out,
you know, which is good because but no one would
make that joke about heart disease or diabetes, but they
make that joke about allergies all the time, which are
(35:36):
just as deadly, you know. So that's a big myth
that I really would love to dispel, you know, because
it can actually hurt somebody if you don't take it seriously.
And then the same thing, I think a lot of
people think that even seasonal allergies aren't a big deal,
and for a lot of people they aren't. But then,
like I said, there are those people where it triggers asthma,
and for some people it can be very severe and debilitating.
(35:58):
So I'm glad these kinds conversations are happening and people
are talking about allergies, because even as as soon as
five or ten years ago, you know, it was not
really talked about and people didn't take it seriously. So
those are probably the most common mix I see.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I blame the media, you know, and it sounds wild,
but I feel like back in the nineties when I
was growing up, every single sitcom cartoon it was always
a really nerdy kid that had asthma or had allergies,
and it was like, oh my gosh, because you know,
they had the glasses and they always had clean eggs,
(36:35):
and they had their asthma inhaler, and so it made
having allergies like a not cool thing and stuff for
like nerdy outcasts, and I'm just like, I don't think
I'm a nerdy outcast. Do you think that makes me
strange because I wanted both the inhaler and glasses. Yes,
you are strange, but I do feel like food allergies
(36:56):
seemed like this weird thing to me, And I didn't
know anybody with food allergies, Like you weren't really like
you weren't really allowed to have food allergies, like it
wasn't a thing. But also I knew somebody at my
after school program that had a latex allergy, and I
was like, we don't want to kill her, Like I
didn't know what would happened, but I was like, we
don't want to kill her. We have to use these
they use these different gloves to serve the food and stuff.
(37:18):
And I took that really serious. But why didn't we
take like pena allergies a SI Exactly. It's like there's
this hierarchy, there's a respectability politics with allergies, like allergy types. Yeah,
we're seeing the same thing when people talk about gluten
allergies now, like they're making it like, oh, you're just
being difficult or particular, and it's like No, this could
really be messing somebody up.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You're completely right. It has a stigma to it and
that's unfortunate. And you're right, it's propagated even by like
the movie industry, because I've seen it in movies even recently,
way after the nineties, Like I know, there was like
a Peter Rabbit movie where they were making fun of
food allergies and things. So that's the problem because people
kids see that and adult that and they think that's
(38:00):
they normalize that. So I completely agree with you, and yeah,
it's definitely a problem.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I think this episode is so so important because the
science communication that you're doing in order to shift perspectives
on allergies is really crucial because people are dying and
we have to take it more seriously. It should not
be the butt of a joke in right, in any
ad or in any movie. We should really be taking
it as serious as it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Right. No, absolutely, And I want to thank you also
for doing a whole podcast episode on this because these conversations,
I think are how we will help kind of change
that narrative. So thank you, you know, for bringing attention
to it.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Thank you so much. That was so informative to T
because I understand the immune system, but I don't think
I was really appreciating the allergies the way I should. Honestly, Yes,
And I think that that seems to be a common
theme with a lot of our labs this semester. It's
(39:05):
about reframing how we look at people, how we look
at pain, how we look at fear, how we look
at allergies, and really putting some respect on everybody's name,
you know what I mean. Where it's just like our
lives are so complex. Everybody's got a lot of things
going on, and we just have to have like a
(39:25):
level of respect for folks and whatever they bring to
the table. You know that's right. If you see me
out here sneezing, just know that three hundred million years ago,
I would have survived a parasitic a tech because I
have a very active immune system. You damn right. You
(39:51):
can find us on X and Instagram at Dope Labs
podcast ct is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore
t SHL and you can find I'm zakiya at Ze
said so. Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media.
Our supervising producer is Keegan Zimma and our producer is
Issara Acevez. Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed
(40:13):
by James Farber. Limanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and
Production is Jackie dan Singer. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast
is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead is Alison Canter. Original music
composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura,
with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive
(40:35):
produced by us T T Show Dia and Zakiah WATTLEI
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