February 23, 2023 • 35 mins
On New Years Eve of 1993, a 21-year-old transgender man named Brandon Teena was murdered in Humboldt, Nebraska. Brandon's life and subsequent murder were later depcited in the 1999 film "Boys Don't Cry." We speak with writer Donna Minkowitz, who covered the case back in the '90s, and has since written about the case in length.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, everyone, Welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Ivet Gentila.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Roschia Peccuerero. This week we are covering a
story that is incredibly close to my heart.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, this week, we are talking about Brandonina, a transgender
man whose story was dramatized in the nineteen ninety nine
movie Boys Don't Cry, starring Hillary Swank, and that movie
was inspired by a nineteen ninety four Village Voice article
about the murder of Brandon Tina, which was written by
Donna Minkowitz. And Donna will be our guest on today's episode.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yes, I'm very humbled and honored for Donna to be
with us today. She wrote that article back in the
early nineteen nineties, at a time when the stories of
trans people weren't really being covered in the media. Donna's
article is an in depth expose on Brandon, on his community,
and about what happened to him. But the story does
(01:25):
not end there. Donna has had a long and fascinating
journey with the case of Brandon Tina, and we are
going to get into all of that today.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, I'm super excited about having Donna on the show,
but now our producer, mister Trevor Young, is going to
walk us through today's case.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
A gruesome triple murder nineteen years ago left emotional scars
on the people of Humboldt, Nebraska. Three people killed, including
Brandon Tina, a twenty one year old transgender Nebraska who
the convicted murder now sits on death row for.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
He tried to be true to the kids he was with.
He was put down. Janni al latter his hereby said
to the family of dead and the murder and the
fresh degree murder of Dana Brand.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Brandon Tina was a twenty one year old transgender man
who was killed on New Year's Eve of nineteen ninety
three by two men in Humboldt, Nebraska. Brandon was raised
in Lincoln, Nebraska and grew up in Catholic school, but
he frequently got into trouble, in one instance, for trying
to alter the school uniform to look more masculine. In
(02:34):
November of nineteen ninety three, Brandon moved to Humboldt, Nebraska,
where he started dating eighteen year old Lana Tisdel. Brandon
presented as male to Lana and her friends, who had
no idea he was transgender. Then Brandon met John Latter
and Tom Neeson. John was an ex boyfriend of Lana,
and both men were ex convicts, but the four started
(02:57):
to hang out together. On December ninth, teeenth, Brandon was
arrested for forging checks, and when they arrested him, the
police put him in the women's section of the jail.
This was the first time that Lana realized he was trans.
After Brandon was bailed out, the story of his arrest
was published in the local paper, and Brandon was out
(03:19):
at as transgender to this new group of friends. Late
on the night of Christmas Eve in nineteen ninety three,
Tom Neeson and John Lotter began to harass Brandon about
his gender presentation. They reportedly grabbed Brandon and pulled his
pants down, forcing Laana to look at his genitals. Then
they forced Brandon into John's car and drove him out
(03:41):
to an isolated area where they raped and beat him. Afterwards,
they threatened to kill him if he told anyone, but
Brandon did report the crime to the local sheriff, who
refused to arrest Lotter and Nisson. But the two men
learned about Brandon's attempt to report them, and they decided
to retaliate. On the night of December thirty first, Tom
(04:02):
Neeson and John Lotter found Brandon at a neighbor's house.
The two then shot and stabbed Brandonina, along with two
other people staying at the house. John Lotter and Tom
Neeson were arrested that afternoon. Both men were eventually found
guilty of first degree murder. As of today, Tom Neeson
is serving a life sentence and John Lotter is still
(04:24):
on death row. The murder of Brandonina became the subject
of the nineteen ninety nine movie Boys Don't Cry. It
also helped galvanize the burgeoning transgender rights movement. And so,
who was Brandonina? Why did law enforcement fail to protect Brandon?
And what does this story tell us about the dangers
(04:46):
the trans people face each and every day?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
All Right, So today we have a very special guest
with the long and compelling history with this case, joining
us now to talk about Brandon Tina is author, activists
journalists Donna Minkowitz. You may know her writings from The
New York Times, Salon, the Village Voice, or you may
(05:15):
know some of her many books, including Ferocious Romance and
one that I am obsessively reading as we speak, growing
Up Goalum, Donna, I know that you've been covering the
story of Brandon Tina since the very beginning in nineteen
ninety four, and you know there's so much to discover,
and I know it's been a long journey for you.
(05:38):
So with that being said, welcome to Facing Evil Russia.
And I are so very honored to have you here.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm
excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
We're so honored that you're here, Donna.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yes, yes, So Donna, before we start talking about Brandon,
can you tell our listeners like when you first started
writing and why you started writing?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Gosh, I don't know if I should count my bad
attempts at poetry in fifth grade.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yes, I should count that I've always really loved writing
and reading.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
It was the thing that made me happy. My childhood
was a little rough, but my mother always really encouraged
me to read and write, you know, and then just
like creating words that were full of beauty and trying
to make something like that. It really really made me happy.
And then when I got to college and I started
(06:37):
getting more politically active, I wanted to write things that
I was passionate about. There were a lot of things
that seemed really unjust to me, and you know, I
wanted to try to change them if I could by
writing something.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I was reading your book, like I said, and I
know that the Village Boys. You know, the newspaper was
very big in your household. Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Yeah, My whole family loved it. So it was free
back then. It was like nothing else in the media,
you know, whether in New York or anywhere else. It
had queer stuff back then, and this is the nineteen
seventies when there wasn't queer stuff anywhere outside of like
(07:23):
a gay or lesbian newspaper, certainly not on TV. You know.
They had a lot of left wing stuff, and they
used dirty words, which no other media did in those days.
And my family really liked to read the personal ads,
which were like much better than like those kinds of
(07:46):
things aren't like dating profiles are today. They were just
like very artfully written. There were no photos, so it
had to all be in the writing.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I love that, I know. And when did you start
at the Village Voice, Donna, Well.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I started doing some freelance pieces when I was twenty two.
I was having a really bad time in grad school
for comparative literature, but I started. I started doing some
book reviews for The Voice, and then I left my
grad school program. I moved back to New York City
and I became a freelance copy editor at the Voice,
(08:22):
which meant I got to be in the office and
try to talk to editors. And there was one editor
who was like in charge of all the queer stuff
at the Voice. So I was like, I'm gonna woo.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
That man, I'm gonna get my way in. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
So I did that, and then gradually I was covering
a lot of LGBT stuff at the paper.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So on that point, Donna, did you know about Brandon
Tina's rape and then subsequent murder back when it happened
or is it because you were asked to do the
story for the Village Voice.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I was asked to do it. Actually, not that long
after the murder happened. I think the New York Times
just printed an AP story about Brandon's rape and murder.
And I guess he was murdered in nineteen ninety three,
and it was probably early in the new year that
(09:18):
my editor showed me this AP story and we both thought.
I was like, oh my god, this is an intense
and amazing story. I was really happy that he wanted
me to go and cover it to Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Oh so you actually went to Nebraska to cover it.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Oh yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I didn't know that either.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Yeah. I went to Nebraska, so I don't drive. I
still kind of crazy. The New Yorker and I knew
this lesbian documentary filmmaker named Susan Muska, so she came
with me. The Voice paid for some of her travel expenses,
and we went out to Nebraska. Brandon Tina grew up
(10:03):
in Lincoln, and he was murdered when he was living
for a couple months in a very small town, very
conservative small town called Humboldt. So Susan and I went
and interviewed people in both Lincoln and Humboldt. This would
be early nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Wow, So right after he was murdered.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Right after he was murdered, it was pretty intense going
to the town. Except for one of Brandon's girlfriends in
the town was Lanna Tisdale. And except for Lana and
her family, no one we spoke to, you know, expressed
sadness or regret that Brandon had been killed. It was
(10:47):
just a very very conservative town. I looked very butch
in those days, and so Susan was traveling with me.
Everyone knew who we were, you know, we were like
the lesbian journalists from New York. But anyway, we we
(11:13):
did talk to people. We interviewed a lot of people,
and we also spoke to Brandon's mother and a lot
of women who Brandon had previously dated, and Lincoln and
also Brandon's gay cousin Maury Oh certainly told us a
lot of stuff that we hadn't known.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Wow, I don't know if you've seen whose, but he
was cute. I think Hillary Swank did a good job
of pulling off the handsomeness factory.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I think she did an amazing job. And speaking about
you know, boys, Don't Cry. This is a question that
I had for you. When the director of the movie
Boys Don't Cry said that she was inspired by the
piece that you wrote, How did that make you feel?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Well? It made me feel really good because I think
it's a brilliant movie. I mean, I know that a
number of transactivists do have some problems with the movie,
and I think that's their right. I think their opinion
about how it's portrayed is more important here than mine.
But Kimberly Pierce, the director, actually unfortunately did not say
(12:29):
that for a long time, for many years.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
For many years, and I would have appreciated hearing it
because actually, at the time my voice piece came out.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
A number of people from Hollywood approached me to option
the story, but nobody really did so I was like, okay, okay,
but anyway, it's fine. You know, no one has property rights,
and the truth they did not have to pay me.
It was not my story, right. I think it's a
(13:06):
brilliant movie.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I agree, Boys Don't Cry. It was absolutely a brilliant movie,
And I love that you can you can tell obviously
you don't have hard feelings about Kimberly. You know, basically
making boys don't cry. I mean, maybe she should have
optioned it.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I think, you know, she didn't have a lot of
money in those days. I didn't have a lot of
money in those days, so it's like, where was the
money going to come from? You know.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
So going back to your piece in The Village Voice,
you know, Love Hurts that came out in nineteen ninety four,
but then you did a retraction into twenty eighteen called
how I Broke and Watched the Brandon Tina Story. And
I have to tell you, Donna, that is incredibly brave
because you didn't have to do that. I would love
(14:11):
to know why why did you decide to write all
these years later that particular piece.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Well, it had really been weighing on my mind for
a long time. My original article was criticized a lot,
you know, by transactivists and people on the side of
transactivists and academics, and I was defensive about this criticism
(14:39):
for quite a while. Yeah, you know, at first I
didn't understand because I thought, well, my piece was on
Brandon Tina's side, and it was only you know, as
the years passed and I started educating myself more about
trans issues, I realized how ignorant I had been. I
(15:04):
mean back then in nineteen ninety three, I thought many
people sort of in the like the cultural way that
trans people were portrayed. I thought that if someone was trans,
that meant that they surgically altered their body and they
had hormone treatments. I didn't understand that trans people were
(15:25):
just trans and they didn't have to, you know, prove
it by doing anything to their body. And I think
also a lot of us who were sis, gay and
lesbian people were scared of the trans movement for some
really really wrong reasons. But we had this mistaken idea
(15:46):
that trans people were really gay and lesbian people who
wanted to be like, considered normal, so they were going
to be like trans straight people and they were going
to say, like, oh, we're normal, We're just in the
wrong body. So, I mean, I was very ignorant. I
didn't know that there are you know, lesbian trans people
(16:10):
and gay trans people and bisexual trans people. It has
nothing to do with whether you're cis or trans. There's
still all kinds of possible sexual orientation configurations. But I
think I was motivated by this as well. So in
my original piece, I kind of I mean, I wanted
(16:31):
to honor what I thought of as Brandon living as
a man and portraying themselves as a man. But I
didn't understand that Brandon in fact identified as a man
and should be treated as such. So I sort of
took Brandon as a cis lesbian who you know, who wow,
(16:55):
wanted to live as a man. Wow, that was very bold.
I didn't understand that he was just being himself. So
I do really regret the way I wrote the piece.
I had been wanting to apologize for years. I actually
sort of apologized quietly in the year twenty fourteen. I
(17:16):
was promoting a book and I was interviewed in a
queer paper in San Francisco, and they said, you have
anything else to say, And I said, oh, I would
like to apologize to the trans community, but not that
many people read it, you know, and I kind of
wanted to do it in a big way.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Well that was a big way, Donna, Yeah, yeah, And
you know, Donna, I just have to commend you, you know,
because not a lot of people would do that.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
They would just you know, blow it off, you know,
but you you know, you obviously thought deeply about this
and evolved right and made an effort to write another
story about you know, how you felt, how you have changed,
(18:04):
you know, because you know, back in the nineties it
was right. It was a different time. We didn't really
know all the things that we know now, you know.
And so when we think about Brandon Tina, like it's
almost thirty years, you know, since his murder, do you
think that society has evolved since then?
Speaker 4 (18:26):
I guess I would have to say like yes and no,
like a really strong yes and a really strong no.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Culturally, the fact that there are musicians who are out
and trans, and authors and some films and TV and
actors who are out, that's wonderful. Yeah, I think the
level of knowledge is dramatically greater. But on the other hand,
(18:57):
you know, we have things like those far right people
really going after trans people viciously, both saying that you know,
trans people are groomers, and you know, passing passing all
these laws like you know, parents who parents who support
their trans kids, you know, can be investigated for child abuse.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Just which is ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I think it's a very frightening time to be a
trans person, you know, despite all the advances.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I agree Donna and I think it's so important, just
as you did, you know, back in twenty eighteen, and
you know, years earlier, you showed up as a trans
ally and that's what we want to be here. And
I hope that the world can evolve and catch up
as well. And I think we you've proven that we
(19:47):
have to use our voices for good, right And I
would like to know you did say, you know, even
wanting to, you know, to apologize to the trans community
for a long time. What made you start to think
think differently? Was there someone in your life that inspired
you or did you like what made it change for
you personally?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Well, one thing was someone in my life, actually not
not a trans person. The woman I married, Karen. Karen
she's a therapist now, but she had been an academic
in gender studies, and you know, when she was teaching
me all this stuff, I knew that she kind of
(20:31):
was better informed about trans people than me, and we
would talk about it and I was like, ah, oh,
she said that, she said that, And you know, I
started looking at her books and thinking about things she said,
and then I really started making an effort to educate
(20:51):
myself more, getting to know more trans people. I teach writing.
Sometimes I teach memoir writing classes, and I I had
a student who also worked with me privately, who was
a trans musician working on a memoir and working with
him help me learn a lot as well.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, that's you know, I can say the same. It's like,
I'm so lucky, you know, to have my sister, because
you know, just having people in your circle that helped
to educate you makes you a stronger ally. Right, So
your wife, you know, has taught you and different people,
different encounters that you've had in your life. What would
(21:35):
you tell people or tell our listeners, like, what avenues
could they take to educate themselves, you know, to to
find out more about the trans community.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Just thinking about this trans musician who I worked with,
who was my student working with him on his memoir,
I saw so strongly. You know, he's different from me.
It's something I had to learn. Nope, he is not
a lesbian though he's someone who was assigned female at birth.
(22:10):
You know who is attracted to women. He's no, he's not.
He's different from me. Sometimes it's hard to realize that
not everyone is like you, right, not being yourself everywhere
and some people are genuinely different from you. They have
different desires and different needs. So yes, getting getting to
(22:32):
know trans people and also reading. There's a lot of
great essays out there and books by trans writers and
trans academics. Oh, there's an excellent book called Brilliant Imperfection
by a transwriter named Eli Clare.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Oh, I haven't heard about that one great book.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
He is trans and he is also disabled, and the
book is kind of about how to come to acceptance
about things about yourself that you might not love or
you wish, you wish might be different, but how to
do that and still love yourself. So I find that
(23:14):
a really helpful book. There's a I believe it's called
The Transgender Studies Reader, or maybe it's now called the
trans Studies Reader. But that was that was excellent and
really informed me a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
So circling back to Brandon, and I know, of course,
we cannot turn back time and we can't change what happened.
And I know this is a very hard question for
me to ask you, but so if Brandon would have
been murdered in twenty twenty three, or even if Brandon
(24:11):
had reported the rape that happened in twenty twenty three.
Do you think things would have ended up differently?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
That's a really good question, and I think maybe the
key further question is where, depending on where it happened,
I mean, if it had happened in Humboldt, Nebraska, I
honestly don't know. I think it would have been at
least a little bit better. I mean, back then, when
(24:38):
he reported the rape, the sheriff called him an it
and said, you know, like, what am I supposed to do?
You know, first you seem to be a boy, then
you seem to be a girl. The sheriff used his
own discomfort about Brandon being trans as an excuse not
to find the rapists and prosecute of the rape. Nissen
(25:03):
and Louder the rapists had told Brandon that if he
reported the rape, they would kill him, and that's what
they did. So I think that Shareff is really to blame.
But I think if Brandon, you know, we're a young
person today who was murdered, I think he would be
identified as a trans man in the press as did
(25:25):
not happen then. I mean, it's it's hard because I mean,
of course trans people are still being killed, very widely killed.
So it's still terrible, even if some of them might
be identified who as who they are after their deaths.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, you're so right, you know. It's it's like we've
come so far, but yet we're still in the same place,
so to speak. You know, but if Brandon Tina would
have been killed in twenty twenty three, say in San
Francisco or California, maybe it would be very different, right,
because so many people that are more awake and care
(26:08):
about the queer community.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Right, Yeah, there are so many more people who care.
I think the sad part is, unfortunately the murders. The
murders do keep happening. I did want to say, you know,
thinking about the anti trans movement today, the election of
Donald Trump in twenty sixteen really threw me for a loop.
(26:33):
I had not thought that things were in danger of
going so far backward, and even though he was not
re elected in twenty twenty, the fact that we have
this huge far right movement now targeting trans people and
queer people, it's a little hard sometimes to square that
(26:54):
with my day to day life as someone who lives
in the town where I don't think someone's gonna beat
me up for being gay, but knowing that people are
passing these anti trans laws all over the country. It's
kind of hard keeping the two things in your mind
at the same time.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, it can be hard to compartmentalize it. I
can see that. You know, we've been developing facing evil
since we did Root of Evil back in twenty nineteen.
And one of the first cases I knew we had
to speak about Brandon. I knew that, and it's because
I wanted more people that didn't see boys don't cry
to know about transgender issues or things that are going
(27:35):
on in the world.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
You were making me think of two years ago here
in the upstate New York town where I live, we
had a Queer and Transliberation March that I was one
of the organizers of, and we had a speak out afterwards,
and the thing that blew me away was the kids,
(27:58):
all of these teenage these non binary and trans teenagers
getting up to speak about themselves. And they made me
so happy, all of these young people wanting to be
who they were, changing the nature of how gender is
(28:19):
understood as we speak.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I just love them.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Like you said earlier, you know, the more that you
educate yourself and you get to know people and you
read and you do your research, you know, you find
that we are all so similar in so many ways,
you know, and just by me, you know, reading your
book Growing Up galam Like, it was so fascinating to
(28:45):
me because I could see parts of you know, my
mother's life and my grandmother's life, like through your book,
you know, and how you were raised. So we all,
you know, have a little bit of each other in us,
you know, That's what I truly believe.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yeah, we do. My memoir writing students, they're often afraid, like,
why would anybody be interested in my life? And I
tell them, actually, I think every single human beings life
is interesting. Everyone has absolutely life, you know, you just
have to write it in such a way that other
people can see it. But I think to your point
(29:28):
that we can identify with something in anyone else's life.
It doesn't have to be exactly the same as ours,
but we do have very similar basic feelings and needs,
you know, even if our lives have been very different.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Absolutely, Donna, if you could please with everything that you
know about Brandon Tina after going to Nebraska and meeting
his family and covering the story, what can you tell
us what did you learn covering Brandon Tina's story and
who he was as a human being, and what his
(30:07):
legacy is now.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
When I was starting to work on my apology article
in twenty eighteen, I went back over a whole box
of notes I had from nineteen ninety three when I
was writing the first piece, and I was shocked to
see a number of things about Brandon that I had forgotten.
He was only twenty one when he was murdered, and
(30:33):
he had wanted to be a commercial artist, so I
had forgotten that had no idea he was interested in
art at all. Also, his mother said that he was
really outspoken in the conservative Catholic high school that he
went to. You know, she said, if the priest said
one thing he said, you know, he would say the opposite.
(30:56):
And I actually recently found out that it was specifically
he was criticizing Catholic hierarchy teachings about homosexuality and contraception.
I had forgotten this. I had ignored that in my article.
And I think in nineteen ninety three it was difficult
to access transgender healthcare, I think in Nebraska or anywhere else,
(31:21):
but Brandon tried. He went to gender clinics and he
tried to avail himself of what was out there, but
it was not easy for him. And something we haven't mentioned,
you know, his family was poor. He never had a
high paying job, he often didn't have a job. His
mother sometimes was on disability. They lived in a trailer park.
(31:44):
Their friends were also poor, so it was particularly I think,
not easy for him to access those kinds of services.
So I guess I want to remember him as someone
someone who wanted to be an artist, someone who outspoken.
And I also remember he wrote these kind of really
(32:05):
like mushy and sweet and romantic cards for his last girlfriend, Lana.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
For Lana, Yes, Yes, and Donna. I have to thank
you for your words in all of your books, all
of your different articles, but especially what you've written about
Brandon and what you have done with your voice. And
(32:33):
I have to thank you for your bravery and inspiring
all of us to use our own voices and tell
our own stories, because, just like you said to your
writing students, like everyone has a story, and I think
that's how we can all somehow find common ground and live,
(32:54):
as cheesy as it sounds, in a more beautiful world.
Thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Thank you,
Thank you, thank you for being here, Donna.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I know this is going to be great episode and
our listeners are going to just be fully engaged because
you have so much wisdom, so much kindness, so much heart,
and we so appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Thank you. It was really great to be with you both.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Thank you so much, Donna.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
This week's message of hope and healing is for Brandonina,
who was adamant about living life as the person he
truly was in nearly impossible circumstances.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Brandon Tina was headstrong, outspoken. What kind of impact could
he have made We'll never know. He shouldn't have had
to lose his life or live with the fear and abuse,
but his death helped pave the way for so many
others after him to live their truth.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And so this week we move onward and upward by
recognizing those who face similar struggles.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
If you're on that path today, then we see you
and we honor you. Onward and upward. Emua, emua. Well,
that is our show for today.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there is a case that you'd like us
to cover, find us on social media at Facing Evil
Pod or email us at Facingevil Pod at Tenderfoot dot
tv and one request if you haven't already, please find
us on iTunes.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
And give us a good review and a good rating.
If you like what we do, your support is always cherished.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Until next time.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Ah Looha.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Peccuerero and Avet Gentile.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk. Donald
albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of
(35:24):
Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge.
Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on
social media or email us at Facingevilpod at tenderfoot dot tv.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(35:48):
favorite shows
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, everyone, Welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Ivet Gentila.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Roschia Peccuerero. This week we are covering a
story that is incredibly close to my heart.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yes, this week, we are talking about Brandonina, a transgender
man whose story was dramatized in the nineteen ninety nine
movie Boys Don't Cry, starring Hillary Swank, and that movie
was inspired by a nineteen ninety four Village Voice article
about the murder of Brandon Tina, which was written by
Donna Minkowitz. And Donna will be our guest on today's episode.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yes, I'm very humbled and honored for Donna to be
with us today. She wrote that article back in the
early nineteen nineties, at a time when the stories of
trans people weren't really being covered in the media. Donna's
article is an in depth expose on Brandon, on his community,
and about what happened to him. But the story does
(01:25):
not end there. Donna has had a long and fascinating
journey with the case of Brandon Tina, and we are
going to get into all of that today.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, I'm super excited about having Donna on the show,
but now our producer, mister Trevor Young, is going to
walk us through today's case.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
A gruesome triple murder nineteen years ago left emotional scars
on the people of Humboldt, Nebraska. Three people killed, including
Brandon Tina, a twenty one year old transgender Nebraska who
the convicted murder now sits on death row for.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
He tried to be true to the kids he was with.
He was put down. Janni al latter his hereby said
to the family of dead and the murder and the
fresh degree murder of Dana Brand.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Brandon Tina was a twenty one year old transgender man
who was killed on New Year's Eve of nineteen ninety
three by two men in Humboldt, Nebraska. Brandon was raised
in Lincoln, Nebraska and grew up in Catholic school, but
he frequently got into trouble, in one instance, for trying
to alter the school uniform to look more masculine. In
(02:34):
November of nineteen ninety three, Brandon moved to Humboldt, Nebraska,
where he started dating eighteen year old Lana Tisdel. Brandon
presented as male to Lana and her friends, who had
no idea he was transgender. Then Brandon met John Latter
and Tom Neeson. John was an ex boyfriend of Lana,
and both men were ex convicts, but the four started
(02:57):
to hang out together. On December ninth, teeenth, Brandon was
arrested for forging checks, and when they arrested him, the
police put him in the women's section of the jail.
This was the first time that Lana realized he was trans.
After Brandon was bailed out, the story of his arrest
was published in the local paper, and Brandon was out
(03:19):
at as transgender to this new group of friends. Late
on the night of Christmas Eve in nineteen ninety three,
Tom Neeson and John Lotter began to harass Brandon about
his gender presentation. They reportedly grabbed Brandon and pulled his
pants down, forcing Laana to look at his genitals. Then
they forced Brandon into John's car and drove him out
(03:41):
to an isolated area where they raped and beat him. Afterwards,
they threatened to kill him if he told anyone, but
Brandon did report the crime to the local sheriff, who
refused to arrest Lotter and Nisson. But the two men
learned about Brandon's attempt to report them, and they decided
to retaliate. On the night of December thirty first, Tom
(04:02):
Neeson and John Lotter found Brandon at a neighbor's house.
The two then shot and stabbed Brandonina, along with two
other people staying at the house. John Lotter and Tom
Neeson were arrested that afternoon. Both men were eventually found
guilty of first degree murder. As of today, Tom Neeson
is serving a life sentence and John Lotter is still
(04:24):
on death row. The murder of Brandonina became the subject
of the nineteen ninety nine movie Boys Don't Cry. It
also helped galvanize the burgeoning transgender rights movement. And so,
who was Brandonina? Why did law enforcement fail to protect Brandon?
And what does this story tell us about the dangers
(04:46):
the trans people face each and every day?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
All Right, So today we have a very special guest
with the long and compelling history with this case, joining
us now to talk about Brandon Tina is author, activists
journalists Donna Minkowitz. You may know her writings from The
New York Times, Salon, the Village Voice, or you may
(05:15):
know some of her many books, including Ferocious Romance and
one that I am obsessively reading as we speak, growing
Up Goalum, Donna, I know that you've been covering the
story of Brandon Tina since the very beginning in nineteen
ninety four, and you know there's so much to discover,
and I know it's been a long journey for you.
(05:38):
So with that being said, welcome to Facing Evil Russia.
And I are so very honored to have you here.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm
excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
We're so honored that you're here, Donna.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yes, yes, So Donna, before we start talking about Brandon,
can you tell our listeners like when you first started
writing and why you started writing?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Gosh, I don't know if I should count my bad
attempts at poetry in fifth grade.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yes, I should count that I've always really loved writing
and reading.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
It was the thing that made me happy. My childhood
was a little rough, but my mother always really encouraged
me to read and write, you know, and then just
like creating words that were full of beauty and trying
to make something like that. It really really made me happy.
And then when I got to college and I started
(06:37):
getting more politically active, I wanted to write things that
I was passionate about. There were a lot of things
that seemed really unjust to me, and you know, I
wanted to try to change them if I could by
writing something.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I was reading your book, like I said, and I
know that the Village Boys. You know, the newspaper was
very big in your household. Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Yeah, My whole family loved it. So it was free
back then. It was like nothing else in the media,
you know, whether in New York or anywhere else. It
had queer stuff back then, and this is the nineteen
seventies when there wasn't queer stuff anywhere outside of like
(07:23):
a gay or lesbian newspaper, certainly not on TV. You know.
They had a lot of left wing stuff, and they
used dirty words, which no other media did in those days.
And my family really liked to read the personal ads,
which were like much better than like those kinds of
(07:46):
things aren't like dating profiles are today. They were just
like very artfully written. There were no photos, so it
had to all be in the writing.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I love that, I know. And when did you start
at the Village Voice, Donna, Well.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I started doing some freelance pieces when I was twenty two.
I was having a really bad time in grad school
for comparative literature, but I started. I started doing some
book reviews for The Voice, and then I left my
grad school program. I moved back to New York City
and I became a freelance copy editor at the Voice,
(08:22):
which meant I got to be in the office and
try to talk to editors. And there was one editor
who was like in charge of all the queer stuff
at the Voice. So I was like, I'm gonna woo.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
That man, I'm gonna get my way in. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
So I did that, and then gradually I was covering
a lot of LGBT stuff at the paper.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So on that point, Donna, did you know about Brandon
Tina's rape and then subsequent murder back when it happened
or is it because you were asked to do the
story for the Village Voice.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I was asked to do it. Actually, not that long
after the murder happened. I think the New York Times
just printed an AP story about Brandon's rape and murder.
And I guess he was murdered in nineteen ninety three,
and it was probably early in the new year that
(09:18):
my editor showed me this AP story and we both thought.
I was like, oh my god, this is an intense
and amazing story. I was really happy that he wanted
me to go and cover it to Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Oh so you actually went to Nebraska to cover it.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Oh yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I didn't know that either.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Yeah. I went to Nebraska, so I don't drive. I
still kind of crazy. The New Yorker and I knew
this lesbian documentary filmmaker named Susan Muska, so she came
with me. The Voice paid for some of her travel expenses,
and we went out to Nebraska. Brandon Tina grew up
(10:03):
in Lincoln, and he was murdered when he was living
for a couple months in a very small town, very
conservative small town called Humboldt. So Susan and I went
and interviewed people in both Lincoln and Humboldt. This would
be early nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Wow, So right after he was murdered.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Right after he was murdered, it was pretty intense going
to the town. Except for one of Brandon's girlfriends in
the town was Lanna Tisdale. And except for Lana and
her family, no one we spoke to, you know, expressed
sadness or regret that Brandon had been killed. It was
(10:47):
just a very very conservative town. I looked very butch
in those days, and so Susan was traveling with me.
Everyone knew who we were, you know, we were like
the lesbian journalists from New York. But anyway, we we
(11:13):
did talk to people. We interviewed a lot of people,
and we also spoke to Brandon's mother and a lot
of women who Brandon had previously dated, and Lincoln and
also Brandon's gay cousin Maury Oh certainly told us a
lot of stuff that we hadn't known.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Wow, I don't know if you've seen whose, but he
was cute. I think Hillary Swank did a good job
of pulling off the handsomeness factory.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I think she did an amazing job. And speaking about
you know, boys, Don't Cry. This is a question that
I had for you. When the director of the movie
Boys Don't Cry said that she was inspired by the
piece that you wrote, How did that make you feel?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Well? It made me feel really good because I think
it's a brilliant movie. I mean, I know that a
number of transactivists do have some problems with the movie,
and I think that's their right. I think their opinion
about how it's portrayed is more important here than mine.
But Kimberly Pierce, the director, actually unfortunately did not say
(12:29):
that for a long time, for many years.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
For many years, and I would have appreciated hearing it
because actually, at the time my voice piece came out.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
A number of people from Hollywood approached me to option
the story, but nobody really did so I was like, okay, okay,
but anyway, it's fine. You know, no one has property rights,
and the truth they did not have to pay me.
It was not my story, right. I think it's a
(13:06):
brilliant movie.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
I agree, Boys Don't Cry. It was absolutely a brilliant movie,
And I love that you can you can tell obviously
you don't have hard feelings about Kimberly. You know, basically
making boys don't cry. I mean, maybe she should have
optioned it.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I think, you know, she didn't have a lot of
money in those days. I didn't have a lot of
money in those days, so it's like, where was the
money going to come from? You know.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
So going back to your piece in The Village Voice,
you know, Love Hurts that came out in nineteen ninety four,
but then you did a retraction into twenty eighteen called
how I Broke and Watched the Brandon Tina Story. And
I have to tell you, Donna, that is incredibly brave
because you didn't have to do that. I would love
(14:11):
to know why why did you decide to write all
these years later that particular piece.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Well, it had really been weighing on my mind for
a long time. My original article was criticized a lot,
you know, by transactivists and people on the side of
transactivists and academics, and I was defensive about this criticism
(14:39):
for quite a while. Yeah, you know, at first I
didn't understand because I thought, well, my piece was on
Brandon Tina's side, and it was only you know, as
the years passed and I started educating myself more about
trans issues, I realized how ignorant I had been. I
(15:04):
mean back then in nineteen ninety three, I thought many
people sort of in the like the cultural way that
trans people were portrayed. I thought that if someone was trans,
that meant that they surgically altered their body and they
had hormone treatments. I didn't understand that trans people were
(15:25):
just trans and they didn't have to, you know, prove
it by doing anything to their body. And I think
also a lot of us who were sis, gay and
lesbian people were scared of the trans movement for some
really really wrong reasons. But we had this mistaken idea
(15:46):
that trans people were really gay and lesbian people who
wanted to be like, considered normal, so they were going
to be like trans straight people and they were going
to say, like, oh, we're normal, We're just in the
wrong body. So, I mean, I was very ignorant. I
didn't know that there are you know, lesbian trans people
(16:10):
and gay trans people and bisexual trans people. It has
nothing to do with whether you're cis or trans. There's
still all kinds of possible sexual orientation configurations. But I
think I was motivated by this as well. So in
my original piece, I kind of I mean, I wanted
(16:31):
to honor what I thought of as Brandon living as
a man and portraying themselves as a man. But I
didn't understand that Brandon in fact identified as a man
and should be treated as such. So I sort of
took Brandon as a cis lesbian who you know, who wow,
(16:55):
wanted to live as a man. Wow, that was very bold.
I didn't understand that he was just being himself. So
I do really regret the way I wrote the piece.
I had been wanting to apologize for years. I actually
sort of apologized quietly in the year twenty fourteen. I
(17:16):
was promoting a book and I was interviewed in a
queer paper in San Francisco, and they said, you have
anything else to say, And I said, oh, I would
like to apologize to the trans community, but not that
many people read it, you know, and I kind of
wanted to do it in a big way.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Well that was a big way, Donna, Yeah, yeah, And
you know, Donna, I just have to commend you, you know,
because not a lot of people would do that.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
They would just you know, blow it off, you know,
but you you know, you obviously thought deeply about this
and evolved right and made an effort to write another
story about you know, how you felt, how you have changed,
(18:04):
you know, because you know, back in the nineties it
was right. It was a different time. We didn't really
know all the things that we know now, you know.
And so when we think about Brandon Tina, like it's
almost thirty years, you know, since his murder, do you
think that society has evolved since then?
Speaker 4 (18:26):
I guess I would have to say like yes and no,
like a really strong yes and a really strong no.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Culturally, the fact that there are musicians who are out
and trans, and authors and some films and TV and
actors who are out, that's wonderful. Yeah, I think the
level of knowledge is dramatically greater. But on the other hand,
(18:57):
you know, we have things like those far right people
really going after trans people viciously, both saying that you know,
trans people are groomers, and you know, passing passing all
these laws like you know, parents who parents who support
their trans kids, you know, can be investigated for child abuse.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Just which is ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I think it's a very frightening time to be a
trans person, you know, despite all the advances.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I agree Donna and I think it's so important, just
as you did, you know, back in twenty eighteen, and
you know, years earlier, you showed up as a trans
ally and that's what we want to be here. And
I hope that the world can evolve and catch up
as well. And I think we you've proven that we
(19:47):
have to use our voices for good, right And I
would like to know you did say, you know, even
wanting to, you know, to apologize to the trans community
for a long time. What made you start to think
think differently? Was there someone in your life that inspired
you or did you like what made it change for
you personally?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Well, one thing was someone in my life, actually not
not a trans person. The woman I married, Karen. Karen
she's a therapist now, but she had been an academic
in gender studies, and you know, when she was teaching
me all this stuff, I knew that she kind of
(20:31):
was better informed about trans people than me, and we
would talk about it and I was like, ah, oh,
she said that, she said that, And you know, I
started looking at her books and thinking about things she said,
and then I really started making an effort to educate
(20:51):
myself more, getting to know more trans people. I teach writing.
Sometimes I teach memoir writing classes, and I I had
a student who also worked with me privately, who was
a trans musician working on a memoir and working with
him help me learn a lot as well.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, that's you know, I can say the same. It's like,
I'm so lucky, you know, to have my sister, because
you know, just having people in your circle that helped
to educate you makes you a stronger ally. Right, So
your wife, you know, has taught you and different people,
different encounters that you've had in your life. What would
(21:35):
you tell people or tell our listeners, like, what avenues
could they take to educate themselves, you know, to to
find out more about the trans community.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Just thinking about this trans musician who I worked with,
who was my student working with him on his memoir,
I saw so strongly. You know, he's different from me.
It's something I had to learn. Nope, he is not
a lesbian though he's someone who was assigned female at birth.
(22:10):
You know who is attracted to women. He's no, he's not.
He's different from me. Sometimes it's hard to realize that
not everyone is like you, right, not being yourself everywhere
and some people are genuinely different from you. They have
different desires and different needs. So yes, getting getting to
(22:32):
know trans people and also reading. There's a lot of
great essays out there and books by trans writers and
trans academics. Oh, there's an excellent book called Brilliant Imperfection
by a transwriter named Eli Clare.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Oh, I haven't heard about that one great book.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
He is trans and he is also disabled, and the
book is kind of about how to come to acceptance
about things about yourself that you might not love or
you wish, you wish might be different, but how to
do that and still love yourself. So I find that
(23:14):
a really helpful book. There's a I believe it's called
The Transgender Studies Reader, or maybe it's now called the
trans Studies Reader. But that was that was excellent and
really informed me a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
So circling back to Brandon, and I know, of course,
we cannot turn back time and we can't change what happened.
And I know this is a very hard question for
me to ask you, but so if Brandon would have
been murdered in twenty twenty three, or even if Brandon
(24:11):
had reported the rape that happened in twenty twenty three.
Do you think things would have ended up differently?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
That's a really good question, and I think maybe the
key further question is where, depending on where it happened,
I mean, if it had happened in Humboldt, Nebraska, I
honestly don't know. I think it would have been at
least a little bit better. I mean, back then, when
(24:38):
he reported the rape, the sheriff called him an it
and said, you know, like, what am I supposed to do?
You know, first you seem to be a boy, then
you seem to be a girl. The sheriff used his
own discomfort about Brandon being trans as an excuse not
to find the rapists and prosecute of the rape. Nissen
(25:03):
and Louder the rapists had told Brandon that if he
reported the rape, they would kill him, and that's what
they did. So I think that Shareff is really to blame.
But I think if Brandon, you know, we're a young
person today who was murdered, I think he would be
identified as a trans man in the press as did
(25:25):
not happen then. I mean, it's it's hard because I mean,
of course trans people are still being killed, very widely killed.
So it's still terrible, even if some of them might
be identified who as who they are after their deaths.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, you're so right, you know. It's it's like we've
come so far, but yet we're still in the same place,
so to speak. You know, but if Brandon Tina would
have been killed in twenty twenty three, say in San
Francisco or California, maybe it would be very different, right,
because so many people that are more awake and care
(26:08):
about the queer community.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Right, Yeah, there are so many more people who care.
I think the sad part is, unfortunately the murders. The
murders do keep happening. I did want to say, you know,
thinking about the anti trans movement today, the election of
Donald Trump in twenty sixteen really threw me for a loop.
(26:33):
I had not thought that things were in danger of
going so far backward, and even though he was not
re elected in twenty twenty, the fact that we have
this huge far right movement now targeting trans people and
queer people, it's a little hard sometimes to square that
(26:54):
with my day to day life as someone who lives
in the town where I don't think someone's gonna beat
me up for being gay, but knowing that people are
passing these anti trans laws all over the country. It's
kind of hard keeping the two things in your mind
at the same time.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, it can be hard to compartmentalize it. I
can see that. You know, we've been developing facing evil
since we did Root of Evil back in twenty nineteen.
And one of the first cases I knew we had
to speak about Brandon. I knew that, and it's because
I wanted more people that didn't see boys don't cry
to know about transgender issues or things that are going
(27:35):
on in the world.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
You were making me think of two years ago here
in the upstate New York town where I live, we
had a Queer and Transliberation March that I was one
of the organizers of, and we had a speak out afterwards,
and the thing that blew me away was the kids,
(27:58):
all of these teenage these non binary and trans teenagers
getting up to speak about themselves. And they made me
so happy, all of these young people wanting to be
who they were, changing the nature of how gender is
(28:19):
understood as we speak.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I just love them.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Like you said earlier, you know, the more that you
educate yourself and you get to know people and you
read and you do your research, you know, you find
that we are all so similar in so many ways,
you know, and just by me, you know, reading your
book Growing Up galam Like, it was so fascinating to
(28:45):
me because I could see parts of you know, my
mother's life and my grandmother's life, like through your book,
you know, and how you were raised. So we all,
you know, have a little bit of each other in us,
you know, That's what I truly believe.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yeah, we do. My memoir writing students, they're often afraid, like,
why would anybody be interested in my life? And I
tell them, actually, I think every single human beings life
is interesting. Everyone has absolutely life, you know, you just
have to write it in such a way that other
people can see it. But I think to your point
(29:28):
that we can identify with something in anyone else's life.
It doesn't have to be exactly the same as ours,
but we do have very similar basic feelings and needs,
you know, even if our lives have been very different.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Absolutely, Donna, if you could please with everything that you
know about Brandon Tina after going to Nebraska and meeting
his family and covering the story, what can you tell
us what did you learn covering Brandon Tina's story and
who he was as a human being, and what his
(30:07):
legacy is now.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
When I was starting to work on my apology article
in twenty eighteen, I went back over a whole box
of notes I had from nineteen ninety three when I
was writing the first piece, and I was shocked to
see a number of things about Brandon that I had forgotten.
He was only twenty one when he was murdered, and
(30:33):
he had wanted to be a commercial artist, so I
had forgotten that had no idea he was interested in
art at all. Also, his mother said that he was
really outspoken in the conservative Catholic high school that he
went to. You know, she said, if the priest said
one thing he said, you know, he would say the opposite.
(30:56):
And I actually recently found out that it was specifically
he was criticizing Catholic hierarchy teachings about homosexuality and contraception.
I had forgotten this. I had ignored that in my article.
And I think in nineteen ninety three it was difficult
to access transgender healthcare, I think in Nebraska or anywhere else,
(31:21):
but Brandon tried. He went to gender clinics and he
tried to avail himself of what was out there, but
it was not easy for him. And something we haven't mentioned,
you know, his family was poor. He never had a
high paying job, he often didn't have a job. His
mother sometimes was on disability. They lived in a trailer park.
(31:44):
Their friends were also poor, so it was particularly I think,
not easy for him to access those kinds of services.
So I guess I want to remember him as someone
someone who wanted to be an artist, someone who outspoken.
And I also remember he wrote these kind of really
(32:05):
like mushy and sweet and romantic cards for his last girlfriend, Lana.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
For Lana, Yes, Yes, and Donna. I have to thank
you for your words in all of your books, all
of your different articles, but especially what you've written about
Brandon and what you have done with your voice. And
(32:33):
I have to thank you for your bravery and inspiring
all of us to use our own voices and tell
our own stories, because, just like you said to your
writing students, like everyone has a story, and I think
that's how we can all somehow find common ground and live,
(32:54):
as cheesy as it sounds, in a more beautiful world.
Thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Thank you,
Thank you, thank you for being here, Donna.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I know this is going to be great episode and
our listeners are going to just be fully engaged because
you have so much wisdom, so much kindness, so much heart,
and we so appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Thank you. It was really great to be with you both.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Thank you so much, Donna.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
This week's message of hope and healing is for Brandonina,
who was adamant about living life as the person he
truly was in nearly impossible circumstances.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Brandon Tina was headstrong, outspoken. What kind of impact could
he have made We'll never know. He shouldn't have had
to lose his life or live with the fear and abuse,
but his death helped pave the way for so many
others after him to live their truth.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
And so this week we move onward and upward by
recognizing those who face similar struggles.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
If you're on that path today, then we see you
and we honor you. Onward and upward. Emua, emua. Well,
that is our show for today.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there is a case that you'd like us
to cover, find us on social media at Facing Evil
Pod or email us at Facingevil Pod at Tenderfoot dot
tv and one request if you haven't already, please find
us on iTunes.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
And give us a good review and a good rating.
If you like what we do, your support is always cherished.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Until next time.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Ah Looha.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Peccuerero and Avet Gentile.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk. Donald
albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of
(35:24):
Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge.
Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on
social media or email us at Facingevilpod at tenderfoot dot tv.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(35:48):
favorite shows
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