May 26, 2022 • 34 mins
"When it comes to taking action to solve climate change, steps like recycling, using less plastic, or saying goodbye to plastic straws – our collective intent usually comes with the hope that we will leave our planet a little better than its current state. But what happens when the answers aren't a fit for all people?" In the first part of our climate action conversation, we spoke with two organizations that are influencing change in their respective industries. In this second part, hear from youth activist Daphne Frias, who explains how climate policies often exclude people with disabilities, and Jo Dodds, president of Australia’s Bushfire Survivors for Climate Action who came close to losing her home in a devastating fire in 2018. They explain how their work is customized to fit the needs of their communities, and how grassroots efforts contribute to a bigger conversation and real change when it comes to matters of preserving the planet.
Tired of the same voices talking about science and the environment? Tune into the Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast, a biweekly show that dives into the career paths, research, and big ideas from early career researchers from underrepresented groups. Serious conversations, big laughs, tears, and storytelling—the show takes an unflinching look at the intersection of our environment and social justice. You can listen and subscribe to Agents of Change in Environmental Justice on all major podcast platforms or visit the homepage at https://agentsofchangeinej.org.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello again, Welcome back. I'm excited to continue this conversation
around climate change, well really around climate action, especially after
the chat we had with Amanda and Derek in part one.
If you haven't heard that yet, please do go into
your app, added to your queue, make it auto play
right after this one. I want to shift our focus
(00:29):
a little right now, though, to shed light on the
community leaders, folks on the ground, maybe those even more
directly impacted by the climate crisis. To kick off that conversation,
I chat with Daphne Free as a youth activist, organizer
and storyteller. She is passionate and she is super unapologetically herself.
(00:49):
You'll hear it, especially when it comes to her work
around climate action and how it affects the disabled and
Latin X communities. Daphne drops major truth bombs you won't
be able to miss. Well, then hear from Joe Dodds,
President of Bushfire Survivors for Climate Action. Joe shares the
harrowing experience of facing a brush fire that ripped through
(01:12):
her small community in New South Wales, Australia. She's a
prime example of how someone can turn a deeply painful
life experience into a catalyst for change. I'm excited to
talk to you, and I want to jump right in.
(01:33):
There's a lot of people who know of you as
a youth organizer, as a storyteller, as this peace builder.
There are also people who may not have heard of
you or your story. So can you tell me where
your activism was born from and where you were born?
And maybe the answer is the same. Sure. So I
(01:53):
am born and raised in New York City. I am
a West Haarlem girl. Harlem world. West Harlem informs my
activism Thuran theory, I say, I am wholly accountable to
my community always. My work is also informed by the
various communities I intersect. So I am disabled. I was
(02:15):
diagnosed Swiss fribral palsy when I was three years old.
So I use a wheel chair to ambulate and roll
around and zoom around. Like I like to say, every
time I think about the way I live my life,
I think about like that song, like they see me
rolland they did, And that's my that's my life model.
Like everybody out here on two legs, that's overrated, guys.
(02:36):
I'm out here on wheels doing my thing. Daphne, you
got me rolling, all right? So I'm with you on
the wheels. So growing up, I was raised by my
mom in a very disability positive community, but sort of
inherently the Hispanic Landox community and most communities of color
(02:58):
have a very net good of outlook on the idea
of disability, and I was sort of calm way focusing
sort of this intergenerational push and pull where my mom
raised me to be wholly proud of my disability and
who I am and what my body allows me to do,
(03:18):
but my grandparents and other elders within my community were
trying to keep me sort of in this little bubble
of safety. I don't really vibe with that bubble. So
really my work is informed by changing the status quo
of what disability looks like, creating positive disability representation, helping
(03:41):
folks realize that disability is not a death sentence, disabilities
a superpower, and that disability doesn't need to become more
palatable in society for it to be accepted. Disability should
be accepted just as it is because we are amazing
and capable and special. So you are changing some of
that image representation that you just talked about, and I
(04:02):
think in one place in particular, when it comes to
through the lens of the climate crisis, which itself is
often communicated as a bit of a death sentence. So
I wonder for you, you know, are you seeing more
representation of the disabled community, of the Latin X community
in these global and national debates and policy discussions around
(04:23):
climate change? Unfortunately known, but every day I am working
to change that status quo. My whole life, I was
experiencing the idea of environmental racism, and for those who
are unfamiliar with that term, it's how the infrastructure around
you is contributing negatively to the way that you experience
(04:48):
the climate crisis, and how the built environment and those
polluting structures, combined with your race contributes negatively to sort
of ide enfranchise climate experience. So in West Harlem, I
lived near a major bus depot, UH highway, a sewage
(05:11):
treatment plant. All of these things are great polluters to
your environment. And black and brown people are three times
as more likely to have ready experience high rates of asthma,
heart disease, and diabetes, So adding polluted air to that
mix is definitely not something that we need to be experiencing.
(05:33):
And although I was experiencing this, my whole life. I
didn't have the knowledge or the agency to understand that
that's what I was experiencing. I didn't have the language
to communicate the realities of environment to racism. And I
was able to sort of really see that disparity when
I went to high school and predominantly white institution in
(05:53):
downtown Manhattan, and the first time I arrived in that neighborhood,
there was six supermarkets in the radius of two blocks.
And in my neighborhood in West Harlem, you have to
go about ten minutes to get a tomato that looks
sort of okay, yeah, like to maybe you want to
eat exactly. And I was like, wait, wait, the way
that I'm living is that the way that everyone is living?
(06:15):
And it was a huge makeup car. So sometimes when
we attempt to do something about an issue, we apply
this like one size fits all answer, and we failed
to account for some of the nuances and some of
the different impacts of those decisions. So when I'm thinking
about climate, I'm thinking about some of these sustainability issues,
pollution related issues. I just remember how excited people got
(06:39):
to ban plastic straws. Oh my god, don't get me started.
We couldn't get Congress to like take carbon regulations seriously.
But damn it, we're gonna shame you over these straws,
and we're gonna make it impossible to find these straws.
But you have another experience with these now shamed devices
(06:59):
that have leaf you call it something of a lifeline
from members of your community. Tell me about how we
need to bring a bit more nuance and consideration as
we're trying to care for all the communities on this planet. Yeah,
so sometime fifteen years ago, an environmental photographer took a
picture of this turtle with plastic straws and its snout,
(07:22):
and the whole world was enraged immediately. For so long
we have been trying to get people to act on
the climate, and then we started banning a little plastic
straws because fossil fuels, you know, those are totally fine,
but the straws, No, that's where the real problem the
(07:43):
climate crisis is coming from. And I think the problem
that comes with this is disabled folks, myself included, depend
on plastic straws, depend on single use plastic medical devices
to survive, Those who have limited mobility, those who have
a limited range of motion sometimes for them of straw
(08:05):
is the only way that they're able to access nutrients
and feed themselves and exists as a human being. And
now in instead of being able to have something as
simple as a straw to be your lifeline, you're getting
glaring looks from waiters at restaurants, when that anger belongs
(08:26):
with the Phiosolphia executives because I didn't create the climate crisis.
You didn't create the climate crisis, and that's strong didn't
create the climate crisis. The people who have been systematically
over time pumping carbon and phosophies into our environment. That
is why we're here. The systematic oppressive systems that lead
(08:48):
to the climate crisis, that is why we're here. And
I think not only is it's harmful to bampastic straws
because escapegoats a community, it's also harmful because it creates
to distraction of where the dialogue needs to be going.
And that's exactly what the fosil fand if she wants
to be happening, They want you to look at the
(09:08):
straws instead of looking at them because they're the ones
really responsible. So we need to really shift the narrative
from these lifelines these actual tools for equality and sustainability
and actually ask ourselves who was most responsible for the crisis.
Thank you, Daphne. That was some knowledge that is new
(09:30):
to me, and I love your perspective on that. I
want your perspective on this other thing. You are a
young person, and I'm curious, how does the message, this
fatalistic message around the climate crisis strike you. How do
you feel when the overriding messages we're out of time?
(09:51):
And I want to be incoord to be transparent and
say that I experienced a sort of climate anxiety, anxiety
around this sort of ever present ticking clock we have
in the back of our minds, and I want to
give agency to that, because I think people assume that
climate activists are always optimistic because we're fighting to save
the planet, and I think it's actually the opposite. We're
(10:11):
fighting to save the planet because nine times at a
ten I'm having an emotional breakdown about the state of
our earth, and I want people to know that who
are listening, if you're also feeling in that climate anxiety,
you are completely valid. But for me, I caution this
fatalistic notion of where we're heading with our planet. The
(10:32):
concept of climate doomism, where it's like we have to
do everything or there is nothing this end all, be
all scenario, and that is not the reality of how
we solve the climate crisis. The climate crisis needs adaptation
and gradual resilience in order to get solved. Yeah you're scared,
(10:54):
I'm scared, But instead of using that fear to hide
under a rock, I'm gonna do whatever I can to
make sure that that incredibly scary outcome doesn't happen. Do
you have examples of new messages, stories, or approaches that
you've seen breakthrough what's working? I believe that storytelling is
(11:19):
one of the biggest components that we have to creating
any sort of change. Words are the building blocks of revolutions.
Words can make anything happen. Giving stories and agency to
those who are experiencing the effects of the climate crisis
right now is some of the most effective methods I've seen.
(11:40):
Because I think it's really easy to say the climate
crisis is a thing, and I understand it exists, but
it doesn't personally affect me right now, So how do
I even feel compelled to do something about it? And
the truth is, while many populations might not be feeling
the effects of the climate crisis right now, you will
at some point. The climate crisis is the greatest equalized
(12:03):
we have on this planet in terms of even wealthy populations.
At the end of the day, the fire is going
to burn your money. The fire doesn't care about all
your dollar bills. It doesn't matter how much money you have.
And you know we're not Jeff Bezos really must too
quickly run off to space in one of Mars like
that's not happening for us. So I think by sharing
(12:25):
personal anecdotes and stories and that that has been incredibly
important and saying these are real human people who right
now in two you're feeling the floods, you're feeling the fires.
It's not something that's happening in two years, five years,
ten years, just happening you're right now. I also think
(12:46):
social media is one of the greatest tools for education
because I think there's a huge gap and people understanding
that the climate crisis didn't just come from carbon emissions
and everybody getting cars over the last fifty years and
people using too much hairy spray. It came from systematic
(13:06):
systems of oppression and how our capitalist society sort of
prioritizes growth and growth and economy and using extractive materials
to become wealthy over the health of our planet. So
it's something that has been coming over time. And by
sharing knowledge and stories and putting the people who should
(13:28):
be accountable on platforms where we can all share and
be knowledgeable too, is the most important You get my
attention with this word accountable. And there's something I've anecdotally
noticed about gen Z folk. Y'all seem to have a
higher bar when it comes to workplaces and who you
will offer up your labor to or not when it
(13:50):
comes to product purchases and brand alignment? Why do you
think gen Z have that higher standard? And the simplest terms,
gen Z is tired of the bs. We've had a
future handed to us that is genuinely a plate of garbage,
and we're trying to just figure out how do we survive.
(14:13):
We have grown up in a generation that has not
known a life without school shootings. We are generation that
even before we are finished high school, we know that
we're going to be an insurmountable debts that we're not
gonna be able to pay off, and with zero job
security whatsoever, and with the bachelors becoming the new high
(14:37):
school diploma, and with the masters becoming the new bachelors,
you're increasingly have to invest in higher levels of education
with very little prospects of actually having job security. So
things are not looking real cute for gen Z. And
we're pretty tired of the adults saying, well, this is
(14:58):
how it is, and you had to deal with all
this inequality, so we're just going to pass it over
to you. And I think the higher bar that we're
putting in place is saying, we're going to take the
status quo back into our hands. Maybe it's time to
have conversations with new people with new voices that actually
(15:22):
reflect the diversity, the inclusiveness, the welcoming nature, the global
nature of gen Z instead of the same men who
have been in power since they were diapers because of
nepotism and intergenerational wealth. And I think for me, that
higher standard is is knowing that there is not any
(15:42):
sector where gen Z is not going to hold you accountable.
It doesn't matter if your clothing brand, it doesn't matter
if you're a media company, even our celebrities, you also
have to be someone who is making a difference because
you have a platform at expands generations and expands the globe,
(16:03):
and we're not going to give you a platform for free.
You're gonna work for it because every platform that we
have is a tool for change, is a vacuum for discussion,
and we need to use as many avenues and platforms
as possible. You dropped so many gems, I feel like
I'm go in a jewelry store. So much of young
(16:24):
people's power plays out on technology platforms. I have a
split question for you. One is about how technology has
allowed you and this next generation to collaborate more effectively,
and then, paired with that, what you hope for from
these tech platforms themselves in terms of their responsibility to
(16:45):
do more, to do better. Yeah. I think the Internet
is one of the greatest equalizers, and it's also changed
the way that gen Z defines itself. I say that
Gen Z is the most global generation to date, and
that is because of the Internet. We are seeing a
shift from individuals who are incredibly nationalistic and working in
(17:11):
a space where it's very country specific to the work
that myself and Gen D as a whole is doing
not necessarily defined by country borders and barriers, but really
as a global generation that is creating ally ship across
the entire world. I like to say that we are
(17:33):
building the Avengers of activism. We are building a ecosystem
that wherever you go, no matter cultural or societal differences,
gen D is going to hold you accountable in the
same way. Because of the Internet, we have sort of
this homogeneous way of thinking as a generation that previous
(17:56):
generations hadn't been able to have because we were less
connected in real time. To answer the second part of
that question, how are we holding social media platforms accountable?
Platforms like Instagram, platform like Twitter are inherently inaccessible to
individuals with varying disabilities, whether it be visual impairments, hearing impairments,
(18:18):
those of the deaf and heart of hearing community. In
the platform like Instagram, which is all visual and graphic base,
how do we allow blind people to utilize Instagram? How
do we allow people who are deaf to hear our
voices on stories? And Instagram actually has a feature called
alt texts, which allows you to put a caption describing
(18:39):
the image of your photo. However, that's hidden in the
advanced settings on posts. It's not a front end center
future and I'm pushing for platforms like Twitter and Instagram
to change that. And then also simultaneously, how do we
hold our social media executives accountable and the way that
(19:00):
they have sort of allowed for disinformation to be spread
across those social media putrous So sort of letting gen
Z and then date those platforms with truth, with the
power of stories, with the power of community to help
combat all of the sort of crazy misinformation that is
being spread on those platforms. What's the one thing you
(19:22):
want someone hearing this to take away from your work.
I want everyone to know that as much as you
see gen Z hooked to our devices, our phones, are laptops,
are iPads, on those very same devices, we are changing
the world. So I promise as much as we are
scrolling Instagram and tik talk, we are also having some
of the most impactful conversations of our lives and probably
(19:47):
of the world's going forward. Gen Z are experts, are
lived experience makes us experts in trying to make the
world a better place. So please, before you dwindle down
oun gen Z to some weird kids who are obsessed
with the Internet memes, I promise we are so much
more than that. We are individuals who are kind, are powerful, compassionate,
(20:10):
and are incredibly innovative. And I promise that if you
trust us just a little bit more than you do
right now, we are going to lead all of us
together to a much better place. So give us a
little bit of trust, give us a little bit of liberty,
and try to laugh along the way, because we are
also hilarious and not everything can be so so serious,
because the times of your times are strange. But gen
(20:33):
Z has got your back. You just have to let
us lead the way. Dafnely, you are for sure a
leader of right now. Thank you for your humor, your energy,
your clarity, your perspective, and your your realness. It's been
an absolute pleasure of meeting you. Thank you so much.
(21:01):
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(22:58):
So there's a lot to love about after me. But
one of the things that stands out to me is
how she stresses the importance of nuance. She proves that
one size doesn't fit all when it comes to the
issues of climate change. Hers is an important message and
a perspective we all got to be more aware of now.
Our second guest is also a testament to the same
(23:19):
idea that we can be vessels for change by simply
sharing our stories. Joe Dodds comes to us all the
way from Australia and lives in her dream home within
a literal forest. It's a pristine environment where we have
(23:42):
some of the best beaches in the world. And the
property that I live on is fifty acres of forest
which segue straight into a Flora and Fauna reserve and
thence into national parks, and there are no fences in
between any of those things. So I very much feel
connected to a wild environment that surrounds my place and
(24:04):
surrounds the little town of Tarfa, which is the closest
town to me. I've managed to find myself in the
sort of paradisical environment that I dreamed of when I
was much younger and living in the city. I was
certainly aware of climate change before I moved here. It
was something that was not really often spoken about in
(24:27):
the news, but it seemed like a very distant future
thing and almost impossible to conceive of it being a
real problem for humans. But after I had moved here
and was living in a forest, I started to pay
a lot more attention to the seasons, to the wet
to the dry, noticing the difference that that made to
(24:49):
the environment around me. And as most people who live
in the country would be aware, you pay a lot
more attention to fire seasons, the risk of fire, and
to flood events as well. But one day in March,
a day that should have been like any other, this
distant reality suddenly became Joe's worst nightmare up close and
(25:10):
too personal. She was forced to evacuate her home in
the Beggar Valley with only the clothes on her back,
the result of a bush fire that broke out, one
that would eventually destroy scores of homes and create even
more collateral damage across lane. I rang my partner straight
away to say whether he was aware of the fire,
and he was, and I could hear his voice shaking.
(25:33):
His voice was changed, and his voice I could I
could tell he was anxious. And this is something that
I have never heard in my partner's voice before. He's
a very solid, calm person who pretty well always knows
what he's going to do next. But it's the only
time before or since that I've heard his voice give
(25:55):
away his fear. We had enough time to get down
into the valley and across the fire front in Tarta
to drop me at the edge of the river and
watch my home. I can see my home from that
that spot two kilometers away, and it took about four
hours for the fire to reach my house, and we
(26:17):
could hear gas cylinders exploding. People were evacuating, and you
could see on the faces of those people that something
terrible was happening in Tarta. I remember distinctly seeing a
convoy of four wheel drives pulling boats on trailers, and
there were so many people packed inside the cars that
(26:37):
they were sort of pressed up against the windows like
sardines and in the boats, the open boats. There were
people and children standing while I were being towed, and
I remember kind of lifting my arm up and waving
to acknowledge, and nobody responded at all, And I just
remember that look of complete shock on their faces, and
(27:00):
then thinking, something's happening in Tarta that we don't understand yet.
And of course what that turned out to be was
the fire had burnt sixty nine homes to the ground.
Let's process this for us at You've got Joe her community,
completely devastated, just trying to process the fact that they've
(27:21):
lost almost every day, but the one thing they didn't lose,
their resilience. Despite all this trauma and loss, or maybe
because of it, Joe and her friend decided to take
action the best way they could at that point by
sharing their story. So a few of us who like
my neighbor Jan whose house was the first to burn down,
(27:43):
she had evacuated with nothing. Everything was melted. There was
very little left of her home that was recognizable in
any way. So out of her devastation and my near miss,
we got together and realized that we were both actually
now furious about the same thing. We were not able
(28:04):
to have a conversation, because there was still this political
toxicity about mentioning climate at all, which meant that people
like us Jan standing in the ruins of her home,
me standing in the forest that I loved so much
that was now unrecognizable, we were not allowed to talk
about the cause. And that seemed to me and Jan
(28:27):
absolutely unacceptable, because if the cause of that fire had
been an arsonist, that would have been all over the
news and we would have been allowed to talk about that. Sorry,
I made a little video just out of desperation, just
standing in the forest, propped my iPhone in a tree,
a burnt tree trunk, had my dog sitting next to me,
(28:49):
and I just talked to the phone and said, I
want the Prime Minister to talk about this, not to
tell us to be quiet, because this is important. We
need to have this discussion, and I will stand by
any politician who's willing to have the courage to do that,
because I now know what's at stake, and I now
know how urgent this is, and if we don't talk
(29:12):
about this, it's just going to get worse. And the
video took off and kind of went viral in a
small way, which then attracted attention from a lot of
people in Australia and around the world. So bush Fire
Survivors for climate action. What we've done is try and
insert the reality of lived experience, but also take those
(29:34):
stories to some of the big institutions who invest in
fossil fuels, to the insurers, to the desks of our
local representatives, the politicians at the state and federal level,
and by telling those stories and having a person who
survived those events present saying when you make decisions that
(29:56):
have any impact on the climate, we want you to
remember by us, we want you to remember what we
went through, and we want you to remember what we
saw and felt and heard, and the pain that caused
and the trauma that caused, and the length of time
that it takes any single person to get over an
(30:16):
event like that. While you're making that decision, don't leave
us off the scales when you're weighing up the good
and the bad, when you're weighing up the money, because
we will not go away. In fact, there will be
more of us every year because we know that climate
change is going to get worse. This should not be
a political issue. This should be a nonpartisan issue. You
(30:40):
have a right to go to your local member and
say I I've experienced this, and I don't want to
experience it again, and I don't want to see anyone
else experience it. Therefore, I want you to act on
my behalf to make me safer from climate damage. Joe
has paved the way for her community by creating the
space for victims, the fire survivors for climate action. But
(31:02):
what can we do, even if we're halfway across the
world to support the cause. I think that that there
is so much that people can be doing to shift
action towards climate and do it urgently. When you take
action on something like this, it actually has this incredibly
beneficial effect on your own mental health because you know
(31:23):
you're doing something about it. So some really simple things
that people can do, and the first would be to
tell the stories of climate survivors. So if you've seen
or heard or felt anything in your own environment that
you say, this is a symptom of climate change. This
can be as simple as observing peeps more potholes. Why
(31:44):
catastrophic levels of rain have chewed big holes in the road,
people are running into the holes, getting flat tires. That
is climate change. Look for the signs and talk about them,
call them out for what they are, name them in
conversations with other people. Make sure that your he is
not sitting doing damage. It's pretty simple these days to
(32:04):
change where you're banking and you're investing, so sort that out.
The other thing, of course, is if people want to
support bushfire survivors for climate action, we've got a website
Google Is. It's really easy. You can join as a supporter.
You don't need to have had direct impact of fire
to support us and support the work that we're doing
on raising this conversation, so it's a pretty easy thing
(32:26):
to do. We're welcome all comers and we've got a
few people from around the globe now joining us. And
nothing could make me more thrilled than us becoming an
international rather than just an Australian organization, So welcome to
anyone who wants to do that. I am definitely feeling
(32:46):
inspired and humbled after hearing from Daphne and Joel, and
it's not just because their stories are high impact. It's
also because they make me realize we have the power
to influence change right where we are, exactly as you are.
Even though most folks come with the right intention. It's
really up to us to voice and say, Yo, I'm
(33:07):
gonna make some adjustments. I'm gonna tweat this even a
little bit, because there are a few things in this
plan that won't work for me and mine and like Joe,
sometimes sharing your truth is all that's needed for the
world to start taking notice. These two stories are so different,
but they're also equally powerful in the ability to raise
(33:27):
awareness of the same issue in a relatable and emotional way.
Are you ready to do more than listen to people
like Dafne and Joe? Find out more about them, their organizations,
(33:48):
and how you can support by going to Salesforce dot
Org slash Force Multiplier. Force Multiplier is a production of
I Heart Radio and Salesforce dot Org hosted by me
barituned Thurston. It's executive produced by Elizabeth Stewart, produced by
Vane Chien, edited and mixed by James Foster, and written
(34:08):
by Yvette Lopez. A special thanks to our guests Daphne
Free Us and Joe Dot Listen to Force Multiplier on
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcast m
Hello again, Welcome back. I'm excited to continue this conversation
around climate change, well really around climate action, especially after
the chat we had with Amanda and Derek in part one.
If you haven't heard that yet, please do go into
your app, added to your queue, make it auto play
right after this one. I want to shift our focus
(00:29):
a little right now, though, to shed light on the
community leaders, folks on the ground, maybe those even more
directly impacted by the climate crisis. To kick off that conversation,
I chat with Daphne Free as a youth activist, organizer
and storyteller. She is passionate and she is super unapologetically herself.
(00:49):
You'll hear it, especially when it comes to her work
around climate action and how it affects the disabled and
Latin X communities. Daphne drops major truth bombs you won't
be able to miss. Well, then hear from Joe Dodds,
President of Bushfire Survivors for Climate Action. Joe shares the
harrowing experience of facing a brush fire that ripped through
(01:12):
her small community in New South Wales, Australia. She's a
prime example of how someone can turn a deeply painful
life experience into a catalyst for change. I'm excited to
talk to you, and I want to jump right in.
(01:33):
There's a lot of people who know of you as
a youth organizer, as a storyteller, as this peace builder.
There are also people who may not have heard of
you or your story. So can you tell me where
your activism was born from and where you were born?
And maybe the answer is the same. Sure. So I
(01:53):
am born and raised in New York City. I am
a West Haarlem girl. Harlem world. West Harlem informs my
activism Thuran theory, I say, I am wholly accountable to
my community always. My work is also informed by the
various communities I intersect. So I am disabled. I was
(02:15):
diagnosed Swiss fribral palsy when I was three years old.
So I use a wheel chair to ambulate and roll
around and zoom around. Like I like to say, every
time I think about the way I live my life,
I think about like that song, like they see me
rolland they did, And that's my that's my life model.
Like everybody out here on two legs, that's overrated, guys.
(02:36):
I'm out here on wheels doing my thing. Daphne, you
got me rolling, all right? So I'm with you on
the wheels. So growing up, I was raised by my
mom in a very disability positive community, but sort of
inherently the Hispanic Landox community and most communities of color
(02:58):
have a very net good of outlook on the idea
of disability, and I was sort of calm way focusing
sort of this intergenerational push and pull where my mom
raised me to be wholly proud of my disability and
who I am and what my body allows me to do,
(03:18):
but my grandparents and other elders within my community were
trying to keep me sort of in this little bubble
of safety. I don't really vibe with that bubble. So
really my work is informed by changing the status quo
of what disability looks like, creating positive disability representation, helping
(03:41):
folks realize that disability is not a death sentence, disabilities
a superpower, and that disability doesn't need to become more
palatable in society for it to be accepted. Disability should
be accepted just as it is because we are amazing
and capable and special. So you are changing some of
that image representation that you just talked about, and I
(04:02):
think in one place in particular, when it comes to
through the lens of the climate crisis, which itself is
often communicated as a bit of a death sentence. So
I wonder for you, you know, are you seeing more
representation of the disabled community, of the Latin X community
in these global and national debates and policy discussions around
(04:23):
climate change? Unfortunately known, but every day I am working
to change that status quo. My whole life, I was
experiencing the idea of environmental racism, and for those who
are unfamiliar with that term, it's how the infrastructure around
you is contributing negatively to the way that you experience
(04:48):
the climate crisis, and how the built environment and those
polluting structures, combined with your race contributes negatively to sort
of ide enfranchise climate experience. So in West Harlem, I
lived near a major bus depot, UH highway, a sewage
(05:11):
treatment plant. All of these things are great polluters to
your environment. And black and brown people are three times
as more likely to have ready experience high rates of asthma,
heart disease, and diabetes, So adding polluted air to that
mix is definitely not something that we need to be experiencing.
(05:33):
And although I was experiencing this, my whole life. I
didn't have the knowledge or the agency to understand that
that's what I was experiencing. I didn't have the language
to communicate the realities of environment to racism. And I
was able to sort of really see that disparity when
I went to high school and predominantly white institution in
(05:53):
downtown Manhattan, and the first time I arrived in that neighborhood,
there was six supermarkets in the radius of two blocks.
And in my neighborhood in West Harlem, you have to
go about ten minutes to get a tomato that looks
sort of okay, yeah, like to maybe you want to
eat exactly. And I was like, wait, wait, the way
that I'm living is that the way that everyone is living?
(06:15):
And it was a huge makeup car. So sometimes when
we attempt to do something about an issue, we apply
this like one size fits all answer, and we failed
to account for some of the nuances and some of
the different impacts of those decisions. So when I'm thinking
about climate, I'm thinking about some of these sustainability issues,
pollution related issues. I just remember how excited people got
(06:39):
to ban plastic straws. Oh my god, don't get me started.
We couldn't get Congress to like take carbon regulations seriously.
But damn it, we're gonna shame you over these straws,
and we're gonna make it impossible to find these straws.
But you have another experience with these now shamed devices
(06:59):
that have leaf you call it something of a lifeline
from members of your community. Tell me about how we
need to bring a bit more nuance and consideration as
we're trying to care for all the communities on this planet. Yeah,
so sometime fifteen years ago, an environmental photographer took a
picture of this turtle with plastic straws and its snout,
(07:22):
and the whole world was enraged immediately. For so long
we have been trying to get people to act on
the climate, and then we started banning a little plastic
straws because fossil fuels, you know, those are totally fine,
but the straws, No, that's where the real problem the
(07:43):
climate crisis is coming from. And I think the problem
that comes with this is disabled folks, myself included, depend
on plastic straws, depend on single use plastic medical devices
to survive, Those who have limited mobility, those who have
a limited range of motion sometimes for them of straw
(08:05):
is the only way that they're able to access nutrients
and feed themselves and exists as a human being. And
now in instead of being able to have something as
simple as a straw to be your lifeline, you're getting
glaring looks from waiters at restaurants, when that anger belongs
(08:26):
with the Phiosolphia executives because I didn't create the climate crisis.
You didn't create the climate crisis, and that's strong didn't
create the climate crisis. The people who have been systematically
over time pumping carbon and phosophies into our environment. That
is why we're here. The systematic oppressive systems that lead
(08:48):
to the climate crisis, that is why we're here. And
I think not only is it's harmful to bampastic straws
because escapegoats a community, it's also harmful because it creates
to distraction of where the dialogue needs to be going.
And that's exactly what the fosil fand if she wants
to be happening, They want you to look at the
(09:08):
straws instead of looking at them because they're the ones
really responsible. So we need to really shift the narrative
from these lifelines these actual tools for equality and sustainability
and actually ask ourselves who was most responsible for the crisis.
Thank you, Daphne. That was some knowledge that is new
(09:30):
to me, and I love your perspective on that. I
want your perspective on this other thing. You are a
young person, and I'm curious, how does the message, this
fatalistic message around the climate crisis strike you. How do
you feel when the overriding messages we're out of time?
(09:51):
And I want to be incoord to be transparent and
say that I experienced a sort of climate anxiety, anxiety
around this sort of ever present ticking clock we have
in the back of our minds, and I want to
give agency to that, because I think people assume that
climate activists are always optimistic because we're fighting to save
the planet, and I think it's actually the opposite. We're
(10:11):
fighting to save the planet because nine times at a
ten I'm having an emotional breakdown about the state of
our earth, and I want people to know that who
are listening, if you're also feeling in that climate anxiety,
you are completely valid. But for me, I caution this
fatalistic notion of where we're heading with our planet. The
(10:32):
concept of climate doomism, where it's like we have to
do everything or there is nothing this end all, be
all scenario, and that is not the reality of how
we solve the climate crisis. The climate crisis needs adaptation
and gradual resilience in order to get solved. Yeah you're scared,
(10:54):
I'm scared, But instead of using that fear to hide
under a rock, I'm gonna do whatever I can to
make sure that that incredibly scary outcome doesn't happen. Do
you have examples of new messages, stories, or approaches that
you've seen breakthrough what's working? I believe that storytelling is
(11:19):
one of the biggest components that we have to creating
any sort of change. Words are the building blocks of revolutions.
Words can make anything happen. Giving stories and agency to
those who are experiencing the effects of the climate crisis
right now is some of the most effective methods I've seen.
(11:40):
Because I think it's really easy to say the climate
crisis is a thing, and I understand it exists, but
it doesn't personally affect me right now, So how do
I even feel compelled to do something about it? And
the truth is, while many populations might not be feeling
the effects of the climate crisis right now, you will
at some point. The climate crisis is the greatest equalized
(12:03):
we have on this planet in terms of even wealthy populations.
At the end of the day, the fire is going
to burn your money. The fire doesn't care about all
your dollar bills. It doesn't matter how much money you have.
And you know we're not Jeff Bezos really must too
quickly run off to space in one of Mars like
that's not happening for us. So I think by sharing
(12:25):
personal anecdotes and stories and that that has been incredibly
important and saying these are real human people who right
now in two you're feeling the floods, you're feeling the fires.
It's not something that's happening in two years, five years,
ten years, just happening you're right now. I also think
(12:46):
social media is one of the greatest tools for education
because I think there's a huge gap and people understanding
that the climate crisis didn't just come from carbon emissions
and everybody getting cars over the last fifty years and
people using too much hairy spray. It came from systematic
(13:06):
systems of oppression and how our capitalist society sort of
prioritizes growth and growth and economy and using extractive materials
to become wealthy over the health of our planet. So
it's something that has been coming over time. And by
sharing knowledge and stories and putting the people who should
(13:28):
be accountable on platforms where we can all share and
be knowledgeable too, is the most important You get my
attention with this word accountable. And there's something I've anecdotally
noticed about gen Z folk. Y'all seem to have a
higher bar when it comes to workplaces and who you
will offer up your labor to or not when it
(13:50):
comes to product purchases and brand alignment? Why do you
think gen Z have that higher standard? And the simplest terms,
gen Z is tired of the bs. We've had a
future handed to us that is genuinely a plate of garbage,
and we're trying to just figure out how do we survive.
(14:13):
We have grown up in a generation that has not
known a life without school shootings. We are generation that
even before we are finished high school, we know that
we're going to be an insurmountable debts that we're not
gonna be able to pay off, and with zero job
security whatsoever, and with the bachelors becoming the new high
(14:37):
school diploma, and with the masters becoming the new bachelors,
you're increasingly have to invest in higher levels of education
with very little prospects of actually having job security. So
things are not looking real cute for gen Z. And
we're pretty tired of the adults saying, well, this is
(14:58):
how it is, and you had to deal with all
this inequality, so we're just going to pass it over
to you. And I think the higher bar that we're
putting in place is saying, we're going to take the
status quo back into our hands. Maybe it's time to
have conversations with new people with new voices that actually
(15:22):
reflect the diversity, the inclusiveness, the welcoming nature, the global
nature of gen Z instead of the same men who
have been in power since they were diapers because of
nepotism and intergenerational wealth. And I think for me, that
higher standard is is knowing that there is not any
(15:42):
sector where gen Z is not going to hold you accountable.
It doesn't matter if your clothing brand, it doesn't matter
if you're a media company, even our celebrities, you also
have to be someone who is making a difference because
you have a platform at expands generations and expands the globe,
(16:03):
and we're not going to give you a platform for free.
You're gonna work for it because every platform that we
have is a tool for change, is a vacuum for discussion,
and we need to use as many avenues and platforms
as possible. You dropped so many gems, I feel like
I'm go in a jewelry store. So much of young
(16:24):
people's power plays out on technology platforms. I have a
split question for you. One is about how technology has
allowed you and this next generation to collaborate more effectively,
and then, paired with that, what you hope for from
these tech platforms themselves in terms of their responsibility to
(16:45):
do more, to do better. Yeah. I think the Internet
is one of the greatest equalizers, and it's also changed
the way that gen Z defines itself. I say that
Gen Z is the most global generation to date, and
that is because of the Internet. We are seeing a
shift from individuals who are incredibly nationalistic and working in
(17:11):
a space where it's very country specific to the work
that myself and Gen D as a whole is doing
not necessarily defined by country borders and barriers, but really
as a global generation that is creating ally ship across
the entire world. I like to say that we are
(17:33):
building the Avengers of activism. We are building a ecosystem
that wherever you go, no matter cultural or societal differences,
gen D is going to hold you accountable in the
same way. Because of the Internet, we have sort of
this homogeneous way of thinking as a generation that previous
(17:56):
generations hadn't been able to have because we were less
connected in real time. To answer the second part of
that question, how are we holding social media platforms accountable?
Platforms like Instagram, platform like Twitter are inherently inaccessible to
individuals with varying disabilities, whether it be visual impairments, hearing impairments,
(18:18):
those of the deaf and heart of hearing community. In
the platform like Instagram, which is all visual and graphic base,
how do we allow blind people to utilize Instagram? How
do we allow people who are deaf to hear our
voices on stories? And Instagram actually has a feature called
alt texts, which allows you to put a caption describing
(18:39):
the image of your photo. However, that's hidden in the
advanced settings on posts. It's not a front end center
future and I'm pushing for platforms like Twitter and Instagram
to change that. And then also simultaneously, how do we
hold our social media executives accountable and the way that
(19:00):
they have sort of allowed for disinformation to be spread
across those social media putrous So sort of letting gen
Z and then date those platforms with truth, with the
power of stories, with the power of community to help
combat all of the sort of crazy misinformation that is
being spread on those platforms. What's the one thing you
(19:22):
want someone hearing this to take away from your work.
I want everyone to know that as much as you
see gen Z hooked to our devices, our phones, are laptops,
are iPads, on those very same devices, we are changing
the world. So I promise as much as we are
scrolling Instagram and tik talk, we are also having some
of the most impactful conversations of our lives and probably
(19:47):
of the world's going forward. Gen Z are experts, are
lived experience makes us experts in trying to make the
world a better place. So please, before you dwindle down
oun gen Z to some weird kids who are obsessed
with the Internet memes, I promise we are so much
more than that. We are individuals who are kind, are powerful, compassionate,
(20:10):
and are incredibly innovative. And I promise that if you
trust us just a little bit more than you do
right now, we are going to lead all of us
together to a much better place. So give us a
little bit of trust, give us a little bit of liberty,
and try to laugh along the way, because we are
also hilarious and not everything can be so so serious,
because the times of your times are strange. But gen
(20:33):
Z has got your back. You just have to let
us lead the way. Dafnely, you are for sure a
leader of right now. Thank you for your humor, your energy,
your clarity, your perspective, and your your realness. It's been
an absolute pleasure of meeting you. Thank you so much.
(21:01):
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(22:58):
So there's a lot to love about after me. But
one of the things that stands out to me is
how she stresses the importance of nuance. She proves that
one size doesn't fit all when it comes to the
issues of climate change. Hers is an important message and
a perspective we all got to be more aware of now.
Our second guest is also a testament to the same
(23:19):
idea that we can be vessels for change by simply
sharing our stories. Joe Dodds comes to us all the
way from Australia and lives in her dream home within
a literal forest. It's a pristine environment where we have
(23:42):
some of the best beaches in the world. And the
property that I live on is fifty acres of forest
which segue straight into a Flora and Fauna reserve and
thence into national parks, and there are no fences in
between any of those things. So I very much feel
connected to a wild environment that surrounds my place and
(24:04):
surrounds the little town of Tarfa, which is the closest
town to me. I've managed to find myself in the
sort of paradisical environment that I dreamed of when I
was much younger and living in the city. I was
certainly aware of climate change before I moved here. It
was something that was not really often spoken about in
(24:27):
the news, but it seemed like a very distant future
thing and almost impossible to conceive of it being a
real problem for humans. But after I had moved here
and was living in a forest, I started to pay
a lot more attention to the seasons, to the wet
to the dry, noticing the difference that that made to
(24:49):
the environment around me. And as most people who live
in the country would be aware, you pay a lot
more attention to fire seasons, the risk of fire, and
to flood events as well. But one day in March,
a day that should have been like any other, this
distant reality suddenly became Joe's worst nightmare up close and
(25:10):
too personal. She was forced to evacuate her home in
the Beggar Valley with only the clothes on her back,
the result of a bush fire that broke out, one
that would eventually destroy scores of homes and create even
more collateral damage across lane. I rang my partner straight
away to say whether he was aware of the fire,
and he was, and I could hear his voice shaking.
(25:33):
His voice was changed, and his voice I could I
could tell he was anxious. And this is something that
I have never heard in my partner's voice before. He's
a very solid, calm person who pretty well always knows
what he's going to do next. But it's the only
time before or since that I've heard his voice give
(25:55):
away his fear. We had enough time to get down
into the valley and across the fire front in Tarta
to drop me at the edge of the river and
watch my home. I can see my home from that
that spot two kilometers away, and it took about four
hours for the fire to reach my house, and we
(26:17):
could hear gas cylinders exploding. People were evacuating, and you
could see on the faces of those people that something
terrible was happening in Tarta. I remember distinctly seeing a
convoy of four wheel drives pulling boats on trailers, and
there were so many people packed inside the cars that
(26:37):
they were sort of pressed up against the windows like
sardines and in the boats, the open boats. There were
people and children standing while I were being towed, and
I remember kind of lifting my arm up and waving
to acknowledge, and nobody responded at all, And I just
remember that look of complete shock on their faces, and
(27:00):
then thinking, something's happening in Tarta that we don't understand yet.
And of course what that turned out to be was
the fire had burnt sixty nine homes to the ground.
Let's process this for us at You've got Joe her community,
completely devastated, just trying to process the fact that they've
(27:21):
lost almost every day, but the one thing they didn't lose,
their resilience. Despite all this trauma and loss, or maybe
because of it, Joe and her friend decided to take
action the best way they could at that point by
sharing their story. So a few of us who like
my neighbor Jan whose house was the first to burn down,
(27:43):
she had evacuated with nothing. Everything was melted. There was
very little left of her home that was recognizable in
any way. So out of her devastation and my near miss,
we got together and realized that we were both actually
now furious about the same thing. We were not able
(28:04):
to have a conversation, because there was still this political
toxicity about mentioning climate at all, which meant that people
like us Jan standing in the ruins of her home,
me standing in the forest that I loved so much
that was now unrecognizable, we were not allowed to talk
about the cause. And that seemed to me and Jan
(28:27):
absolutely unacceptable, because if the cause of that fire had
been an arsonist, that would have been all over the
news and we would have been allowed to talk about that. Sorry,
I made a little video just out of desperation, just
standing in the forest, propped my iPhone in a tree,
a burnt tree trunk, had my dog sitting next to me,
(28:49):
and I just talked to the phone and said, I
want the Prime Minister to talk about this, not to
tell us to be quiet, because this is important. We
need to have this discussion, and I will stand by
any politician who's willing to have the courage to do that,
because I now know what's at stake, and I now
know how urgent this is, and if we don't talk
(29:12):
about this, it's just going to get worse. And the
video took off and kind of went viral in a
small way, which then attracted attention from a lot of
people in Australia and around the world. So bush Fire
Survivors for climate action. What we've done is try and
insert the reality of lived experience, but also take those
(29:34):
stories to some of the big institutions who invest in
fossil fuels, to the insurers, to the desks of our
local representatives, the politicians at the state and federal level,
and by telling those stories and having a person who
survived those events present saying when you make decisions that
(29:56):
have any impact on the climate, we want you to
remember by us, we want you to remember what we
went through, and we want you to remember what we
saw and felt and heard, and the pain that caused
and the trauma that caused, and the length of time
that it takes any single person to get over an
(30:16):
event like that. While you're making that decision, don't leave
us off the scales when you're weighing up the good
and the bad, when you're weighing up the money, because
we will not go away. In fact, there will be
more of us every year because we know that climate
change is going to get worse. This should not be
a political issue. This should be a nonpartisan issue. You
(30:40):
have a right to go to your local member and
say I I've experienced this, and I don't want to
experience it again, and I don't want to see anyone
else experience it. Therefore, I want you to act on
my behalf to make me safer from climate damage. Joe
has paved the way for her community by creating the
space for victims, the fire survivors for climate action. But
(31:02):
what can we do, even if we're halfway across the
world to support the cause. I think that that there
is so much that people can be doing to shift
action towards climate and do it urgently. When you take
action on something like this, it actually has this incredibly
beneficial effect on your own mental health because you know
(31:23):
you're doing something about it. So some really simple things
that people can do, and the first would be to
tell the stories of climate survivors. So if you've seen
or heard or felt anything in your own environment that
you say, this is a symptom of climate change. This
can be as simple as observing peeps more potholes. Why
(31:44):
catastrophic levels of rain have chewed big holes in the road,
people are running into the holes, getting flat tires. That
is climate change. Look for the signs and talk about them,
call them out for what they are, name them in
conversations with other people. Make sure that your he is
not sitting doing damage. It's pretty simple these days to
(32:04):
change where you're banking and you're investing, so sort that out.
The other thing, of course, is if people want to
support bushfire survivors for climate action, we've got a website
Google Is. It's really easy. You can join as a supporter.
You don't need to have had direct impact of fire
to support us and support the work that we're doing
on raising this conversation, so it's a pretty easy thing
(32:26):
to do. We're welcome all comers and we've got a
few people from around the globe now joining us. And
nothing could make me more thrilled than us becoming an
international rather than just an Australian organization, So welcome to
anyone who wants to do that. I am definitely feeling
(32:46):
inspired and humbled after hearing from Daphne and Joel, and
it's not just because their stories are high impact. It's
also because they make me realize we have the power
to influence change right where we are, exactly as you are.
Even though most folks come with the right intention. It's
really up to us to voice and say, Yo, I'm
(33:07):
gonna make some adjustments. I'm gonna tweat this even a
little bit, because there are a few things in this
plan that won't work for me and mine and like Joe,
sometimes sharing your truth is all that's needed for the
world to start taking notice. These two stories are so different,
but they're also equally powerful in the ability to raise
(33:27):
awareness of the same issue in a relatable and emotional way.
Are you ready to do more than listen to people
like Dafne and Joe? Find out more about them, their organizations,
(33:48):
and how you can support by going to Salesforce dot
Org slash Force Multiplier. Force Multiplier is a production of
I Heart Radio and Salesforce dot Org hosted by me
barituned Thurston. It's executive produced by Elizabeth Stewart, produced by
Vane Chien, edited and mixed by James Foster, and written
(34:08):
by Yvette Lopez. A special thanks to our guests Daphne
Free Us and Joe Dot Listen to Force Multiplier on
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