May 12, 2022 • 39 mins
Between wildfires, floods and other severe weather discrepancies taking place each year, thinking about the solutions to the issue of climate change is overwhelming. And even when people do their best to do their individual part, it can feel like a drop in the bucket, or like it’s simply not enough. But what action, of any size, has the potential to drive real, global change – influencing leaders and driving focus of the largest climate issue at hand? If we join our voices together, do we have the ability to make change across education, nonprofit, public and private sectors?
In this episode, we hear from Amanda McKenzie, CEO of Australia’s leading climate change communications organization Climate Council, and Derrick Emsley, Co-Founder and CEO of the sustainable clothing brand Tentree -- two individuals who have found their communities and stakeholders to be at the core of their success. Although they sit on different degrees of the climate conversation spectrum, both Amanda and Derrick believe that a combination of technology and effective communication has the potential of giving people privilege to use their voices – creating a ripple effect of positive changes on the planet.
Tired of the same voices talking about science and the environment? Tune into the Agents of Change in Environmental Justice podcast, a biweekly show that dives into the career paths, research, and big ideas from early career researchers from underrepresented groups. Serious conversations, big laughs, tears, and storytelling—the show takes an unflinching look at the intersection of our environment and social justice. You can listen and subscribe to Agents of Change in Environmental Justice on all major podcast platforms or visit the homepage at https://agentsofchangeinej.org.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, Hello, and welcome back to Force Multiplier. It's good
to be back. I know it's been a while, so
thanks for jumping back into the feed. You know, back
in season one, we had so many inspiring conversations with
impressive people, and I'm excited to go even deeper this
season into some of these issues affecting us all in
(00:26):
hopes that we can use this power of collaboration to
take one more step towards solving some of these problems together.
So in this season opener, we are going to talk
about climate change, but through a different lene. Let me
start with a quick personal story host privilege Alert. It
(00:47):
was the summer and I was attending my college reunion.
My first year roommate has since grown up to become
a very minted climate activist. His name is Danielle Giles.
He gave us a great gift at this reunion. He
ran an interactive workshop and his was called The Optimist
(01:11):
Guide to Climate Change. And he had about a hundred
of us in the room and it's this big lecture hall,
and he had a computer projection on the screen which
was a model, a manipulable model where we could determine
the future, what steps we would take to mitigate or
adapt to climate change. What energy policies, what food production,
(01:35):
what transportation and housing infrastructure, And there were tradeoffs, and
there were limits and budget and you could see the
effect in dollars and temperature in people's lives. That session
taught me a lot. It taught and reminded me that
climate change effects everything, that we the people have a
lot more power than we think. That we can vote
(01:56):
with ballots, but also with dollars and with a pension.
It reminded me that technology and culture can play a
huge role in shaping public opinion. You hear stat's like,
we can avoid reaching that Paris accord one point five
degrees celsius if we just cut global emissions in half
over the next eight years. And I look around at
(02:19):
all the stuff we're not doing, kicking the can down
the road, And we said that twelve years ago, we
said that twenty years ago. It can lead you to think,
what's the point. The point is every partial degree increase
avoided is life preserved. It's millions of people and millions
(02:41):
of other species. We're not the only ones living here,
and so even if we don't make the one point
five it's worth it to try, because every effort toward it,
every partial reduction, is improving life for someone, is improving
the air for someone, is making a river more habitable
for someone or something. But there's good news. There's people
(03:03):
actually doing something about it, people like my college roommate Danielle,
people like the folks we bring to you in this show,
and even better news. We don't just have to watch
them do their thing. We can help them. We can
help them help us. If we join forces like Voltron
defend the universe and ourselves from the worst outcomes of
the climate crisis. We are in the match of our lives.
(03:28):
And I've brought two amazing players to you for this
roundtable discussion. Joining us from Melbourne, Australia is Amanda Mackenzie,
CEO of the Climate Council and an environmental leader. Amanda
spear headed Australia's largest ever crowdfunding campaign to start this organization,
raising one point four million dollars in a week. She's
(03:52):
the chair of the Center for Australian Progress, sits on
the board of Plant International Australia. But it's her work
with the Climate Council that has really mobilized people. Three
day citizens concerned with the current state of climate change.
Much like Amanda. Our second guest, Dereck Emsley, he's using
the power of technology to reach the masses and create impact.
He is the CEO and co founder of ten Tree,
(04:14):
which on the surface looks like a typical apparel company,
this kind of new brand that might show up in
your Instagram feed. But Derek and his team describe what
they're doing as a tree planting company that happens to
sell apparel. With each of your purchases, ten dree plants
ten Trees, get it to offset your carbon footprint. Two
(04:36):
different guests, one singular mission to save the planet, but
really to save ourselves. Let's dive in. Welcome to Force Multiplier.
Derek and Amanda. Thank you for joining me, Thanks for
having me, Thanks for having me, Amanda. I want to
(04:58):
start with you. Australia is a massive country. You've experienced
a lot of climate related challenges, the big bushfires, the
hardest day on record, and then things got pretty biblical
with the floods too. So it's like it's burning, it's
too dry now, it's too wet, there's too much water.
How is everyone in Australia doing it right now if
(05:19):
you could just give me an individual report every Australian
how y'all doing. Yeah, we have had everything and people
are pretty tired. We have a phrase in Australia called
She'll be right mate, and that's generally used for just
about everything, but people are not using that phrase so
frequently now. I think since Black Summer, which happened just
(05:41):
before the pandemic, where we had fire starting in winter.
They didn't end till autumn. At one point a thousand
miles of forests was on fire. It was just the
most massive event. And since that time we have had that.
As you said, the biblical floods. One of the records
there was two meters above the previous record. It was
(06:02):
absolutely huge. If you can imagine a McDonald's restaurant, there
was one of those big McDonald's signs out the front.
The water was up to the yellow arches. So we've
had our fair share of extreme weather events for the
last few years and people are really worried. We've got
an election on and it's one of the big issues.
What are you doing about it? In terms of the
(06:22):
climate Council can just briefly explain what the climate Council
is yeah. Sure. So we were set up almost eight
years ago now when Conservative leader Tony Abbott came into
power and we had previously been a government body called
the Climate Commission. That body was established to provide expert
commentary on climate change the general public. It was an
independent government agency and the first act of the Abbott
(06:46):
government was to abolish the Climate Commission. It was quite
a statement to say, we don't want to be acting
on climate change. That's been part of our platform, and
we're going to get rid of these guys that are
educating the public. They took down the website, all the
resources on day one. Was this like a no evil here,
no evil kind of thing, like if we don't know
then it won't hurt us. Oh absolutely, And we don't
(07:08):
like these scientists always telling us that there's a big
problem on the horizon, so why don't we just get
rid of them. So four days later we did a
crowdfunding campaign which was at the time the most successful
in Australia's history. We raised one point four million dollars
in a week to create a new organization called the
Climate Council. And the idea was to get an organization
(07:29):
that could be that independent provider of information to the
public so that people knew where they could find a
trusted resource. But then as we've evolved over time, we've
done more and more work, particularly around communicating to lots
of different audiences in different ways to make climate change
really salient. In the past, climate change has been an
issue often just for sort of policy wonks and scientists
(07:51):
and politicians to debate. We want to make it something
that firefighters are talking about, the doctors at solar installers.
And then we do a range of other projects which
are around direct advocacy, particularly to local governments and state governments,
because we've had not much success in getting our federal
government to act on climate change, so the other levels
have been really important. Do you ever thank Tony Abbott
(08:13):
for inspiring the creation of what sounds like something much
more robust than the thing that it replaced. Yeah, it's funny,
isn't it, Because at the time it was terrible to
have this thing be dismantled, and then it rose like
the phoenix from the ashes. And now our budget is
i think eight times the size of the previous Climate Commission,
and we substantially outlastedt Tony Abbott as well, whom you
(08:34):
have deposed. Oh that's beautiful, So you're literally more sustainable
as well. I really yeah, that's great, Derek. I want
to welcome you as well and get into what you're
up to. You've described your company Tentry as a tree
planting company that happens to sell close clothes, which I
(08:57):
have recently purchased. By the way, I'll let you know
how they turn out. Why do you believe this is
one of the most effective ways of combating climate change? Yeah,
I mean, I think there's a couple pieces to that
that question. I think one is where tree planting sits
in that broader conversation, and the other is the approach
of creating a business around this idea of giving back.
(09:19):
And you know, I think Amanda position what they're doing
so well in some of the challenges that are often
faced by organizations when they're dependent on you know, whether
it's a government approach where the incentives aren't necessarily aligned
with actually creating long term sustainable change. So we started
our business Tentry about a decade ago now, and really
(09:43):
the focus for us was, to your point, to create
a vehicle that allowed us to plant trees and in fairness,
we were really agnostic as to what the product was.
It was less about creating an apparel business, and it
was more about creating a vehicle that allowed us to
sort of share the message. And the message for us
was really this idea of planting trees, showcasing the impact
(10:07):
tree planting could have, and connecting people at an individual level,
which again just resonates with what Amanda was saying, connecting
your everyday person with how they can create an impact.
You know, I think it's so important these days when
a lot of the messaging out there has become really disempowering.
We need to inspire people to take part in action
(10:30):
and actually be a part of making change. And so
for us, trees are an incredible symbol and they also
create an incredible impact. Well and in the impact is
something I want to zoom in on, and then I
have a shared question for both of you. But on
the tententry model, Derek, A lot of us have been
exposed to these by one give one sort of business models.
(10:52):
For every shoe I buy, I give a shoe to
another person that we both just have one shoe. I
don't know how at all adds up, but how is
your model building beyond that by one give one kind
of framing. We have to date planted over seventy five
million trees. Our goal is to plant a billion trees
(11:13):
by The reality is, though there's a lot of messaging
out there that's using these ideas of impact and this
idea of tangibility, and the reality is as oftentimes that
product might create a negative impact, and they're using that
consumer messaging is a vehicle to inspire a purchase when
(11:35):
they're not living up to the values and things like that.
So for us, first and foremost, we ensure that the
product that we're using as a vehicle has as little
negative impact as it can possibly have, so that means
it's sourced sustainably. We use ethical manufacturing, and we offset
our scope one, two and three emissions. But the second
(11:57):
pieces we plant ten trees for every product we sell.
And your question was how do you make sure that
it's not creating reverse effects? And we've been fortunate to
visit these sites all across the globe in areas like
Senegal and Madagascar and Canada and US. And what's amazing
(12:18):
about tree planting is, to use the old adage, it's
not about giving somebody a fish, it's about teaching them
to fish. The negative impacts in a lot of areas environmentally,
particularly around deforestation, are results of people needing to provide
food for their families, shelter, firewood, things like that, and
(12:39):
they cut down trees to do so. So planting trees
isn't just about putting sticks in the ground. It's about
making sure they're getting done the right way, with the
right community incentives, with the right long term impact. You
both have talked about connecting people and getting past the
doom and gloom messaging, whether it's through planting trees or
(13:02):
just through clearer communications about the climate crisis and what
we can do about it. Amanda, you even get very specific.
Firefighters are engaging. What does that connectivity and collaboration look
like when you take this white spectrum of forks and
connect them to this very important topic through your work. Yeah,
it's a great question. One example has been working with
(13:25):
former fire chiefs, and we call them SCS responders, those
that respond to floods and other sorts of disasters. So
a few years ago now, prior to the Black Summer
huge fires, we saw that those sorts of fires would
be on the horizon and brought together a whole range
of these former fire chiefs and former is important because
it means they've got a lot of capacity to speak.
(13:47):
They're not limited by their government role. So we have
had that group of emergency responders coming out in the
media and consistently putting a view forward around what sorts
of measures we should be taking to prepare for these
sorts of events, warning the federal government that black someone
was going to come, and that's been really effective in
changing hearts and minds because those people are so trusted.
(14:12):
They're unexpected. You know, people are used to seeing activists
or wonky scientists in the media, but having these older
white guys in suits and uniforms talking about climate change
is a bit different and it caught people's attention in
a really new way. And that group has now gone
on to hold a summit around how do we prepare
for these sorts of events and bringing together a whole
(14:33):
lot of different people, so local governments who are directly
affected and preparing communities, Indigenous people who have used fire
to manage the landscape from time immemorial. So there's so
many important lessons that white people should have learned about
how to manage the Australian landscape, and now there is
much more dialogue around learning those lessons in preparing for
(14:55):
worsening fire conditions. So the emergency leaders were sort of
the first that came out with a lot of authority
and then been bringing a whole lot of others together
in how we respond and arguing for a level of
preparedness for these sorts of events, but also that we
need to be mitigating climate change at the same time.
I just want to congratulate you on a very savvy strategy.
(15:17):
Was that purposeful or did it emerge unexpectedly? It was
certainly purposeful. I think one of the key audiences that
we need to change has been older conservative males in particular,
and having people that look more similar to them rather
than the radical activists or whoever it is speaking was
really important. So we've used firefighters, we've used doctors, we've
(15:40):
used former defense chiefs as well. So getting all the
old men in suits like men in some kind of uniform. Yeah,
that's right, No, that's great. I mean people have all
kinds of feelings about a lot of different jobs in
this country, but firefighters, believe still maintain a very very
(16:01):
high approval across all kinds of devices. Derek, I have
a similarly inspired question because you also mentioned the connection
that people make and you're able to bring folks together.
What does that feel like for tententry. What communities are
you connecting? What ideas are finding new purchase through your
business model that might not have existed before for us?
(16:24):
At the end of the day, it comes down to
the consumer. Amanda alluded to this where you're kind of
dealing with the old guard and trying to change the conversation,
and the consumer is at its core what drives change,
whether that be the consumer as a voter for a
government or the consumer voting with their wallet for what
(16:47):
brands and products that they're going to support. And so
when I think of the connection, it's really about inspiring
the consumer to recognize the impact that they're actually able
to create by shopping mindfully, shopping sustainably. Everything we do
is about creating a clear sort of educational and empowering
(17:09):
narrative that connects that customer with their ability to have
an impact. Because our belief is we can create an
amazing outcome just through planting trees, but we will have
a far greater impact long term, if we also inspire
people to realize that they can have a voice, and
they have many ways to sort of actually bring that
(17:32):
voice to life, whether that be through buying a sustainable product,
voting in other ways, and actually being out and sort
of evangelizing their beliefs. You're listening to a podcast called
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you with a little different energy because if you're listening,
you like the show, and if you like the show,
(19:17):
you might like my other show, How to Citizen, where
we take citizen as a verb and find out from
people practicing the ways we can shape our community by
showing up, investing in relationships, understanding power, and valuing our
collective selves. Check it out at how to citizen dot
com or wherever you get your podcast. So people have
(19:46):
to feel their power, That's part of what I'm hearing.
They have to feel connected, have a new access to
this topic, one that they can directly relate to, and
then they can point to something and say I did that.
You know, if I helped fund the climate counts, And
then I see these reports about reports that you're publishing
where you easily explain the I P C C reports
that have so befuddled most of us. I can see
(20:09):
the results of that impact, and with tentry, I can
see the results of the trees that I've planted. What
else are y'all doing, Derek, especially this Climate Plus program
to kind of deepen that connection to the individuals so
that they feel some sense of ownership over the solutions.
So for us, the biggest power of trees is the tangibility.
I mean, when you think of this idea of a
(20:31):
pound of c O two in the air, it's really
hard to grasp and create an emotional connection. But we
all inherently have some sort of emotional connection to trees.
So everything we do is in service of connecting this
customer with the trees that they're planting. So over the
last four years, we've created a technology that we've rolled
(20:55):
out across all of our projects to collect data directly
from the ground and connect that consumer with it, so
that every single product has a QR code that you
can scan, find out where your trees are planted, learn
a little bit more about the impact, and you're actually
able to download a digital what we call impact wallet,
(21:17):
where you're actually able to see, you know, the impact
you're creating after your first, second, third purchase. And we're
starting to bring other businesses into the full two so
that if you're planting trees with ten Try, you can
see that impact, and if you're planting with others, you're
able to see that too. So we're really trying to
gamify and make this idea of having an impact tangible.
(21:40):
I have two quick notes for you on that. One,
you sound like the lorax from Dr SEUs speaking for
these trees. Thank you for that. And if you ever
dive deeper into the web three world, those uh impact
reports and kind of proof of your tree, clearly they're
going to be in f trees, so you're welcome. We
(22:03):
we have built our platform with that in mind. I
mean the idea behind very Trees that when you look
at the broad conversation, we've created this carbon tunnel vision
around tree planting, when in reality there's so many other
benefits that tree planting can create, but when we're just
looking at satellite images, a lot of that gets lost.
(22:25):
Our program that we built is meant to collect that
data from the ground in a way that's verifiable, auditable,
and transparent, and then we also put it on that
block chain so that we're able to create these fungible products,
these n F trees that you talk about, and actually
create something that hopefully as value, because if if one
(22:47):
day we can actually value nature, then we're all going
to be a lot more interested in preserving it. I'm
feeling good about a lot of what you all are sharing.
I'm still honestly angry about where we've allowed ourselves to
get Amanda. A lot of the reason we're here is
(23:07):
because of explicit goals to miscommunicate the science and distract
us and deny these truths to the point it's very
expensive to reckon with them now in life in dollars
and in the limited time that we have to adapt
and mitigate to these circumstances. What happened or what didn't
happen as a part of the communications failure around the
(23:30):
climate crisis, Yeah, it's a really important question. And one
of the key things that happened was that the fossil
fuel industry took the lessons that Big tobacco had learned
as to how to delay action on an issue and
implemented many of the same people that had worked in
big tobacco, confusing people using a range of tactics when
(23:54):
and then worked for the fossil fuel industry and for
countries like Australia in the United States counter that have
big fossil fuel interests. It has substantially altered the debate
the Australian politics. For instance, we have gas lobbyists and
coal lobbyists that are in a revolving door into Parliament
advising some of the key people who are making decisions
(24:16):
on this. So it's no surprise that it's been very difficult.
But what I would say is that if we look
back on this as a thirty odd year period, it
is actually quite a speedy technological and social change compared
to other changes that humanity is witnessed. So it's sort
of holding both things in your mind. One is we
(24:39):
certainly haven't done enough. The issue is all around us.
It's really scary, and there have been people that have
deliberately prevented us from getting further down the track to
tackle the issue. But then on the other hand, there
is a lot of progress going on. So in Australia,
for instance, we have three million homes with solar panels
on the roof, So those consumers have taken action into
(24:59):
their own hands. So we need to be able to
look back and say we have made some substantial progress.
As a long way to go, we need to hold
those people accountable that have prevented us from action. But
we can't let a lack of momentum get us down.
We need to be building that momentum and hope into
the future. As you've been working on and serving on
(25:21):
this council, what has kept you inspired in terms of
communicating the truth or having people feel more empowered and
not just overwhelmed by the size of this challenge. I
feel like action is really an antidote to that sense
of despair or disempowerment. And what really inspires me is
(25:41):
when I look around at the people that are acting,
particularly where there has been a level of inspiration from
what the Climate Council has done. So in our mission,
we describe ourselves as a catalyst, so we see ourselves
as kind of being small and scrappy and able to
help others to tackle the issue in their sort of
(26:02):
sphere of influence, if you like. So we do a
project with local governments that now covers six of Australians
and local governments can get actually a lot done in
terms of reducing emissions, helping local schools put panels on
the roof, or maybe it's electric vehicle charges. There's a
whole bunch of things they can do. So our theory
of change, if you like, is that if you can
get enough momentum going, that's where national governments become followers.
(26:26):
I think we've expected national governments to be leaders. They
generally don't lead, they generally follow. So how do we
create the conditions where they kind of have to begrudgingly follow?
I mean one of those ways is also to shift
not just the communications culture, but the business culture. With Tentry,
you're doing that. It seems like at least on two fronts,
(26:47):
you're promoting a consumer culture of increased sustainability, of awareness
of supply chain visibility like where this stuff comes from
a verified sustainable activity and not just green why, And
you're enabling other businesses to do the same. So it's
not like Tentry has to be the one company in
the world that we trust. Would have been some of
(27:08):
the keys to advancing that culture, Derek, in terms of
both the business behavior and getting businesses to think beyond
their quarterly earnings reports. It's hard. Companies have for years
tried to put the onus on the consumer carbon footprint.
Was more away to say, take the view off us
and think about your own carbon footprint. And I think
(27:32):
what's happening now is that consumers are realizing their own
power and their focus is being shifted back to the companies,
and the companies that lead on these discussions are the
companies that will win. And in fact, when we originally
built our technology, our thought was to really just you know,
power our own planting. But you know, for us, if
(27:55):
tentry can create thousands and thousands of tree farms, our
technology could potentially create thousands and thousands of tentries. And
so how can we continue to multiply our impact? And
Amanda used the word catalyst, and I think this is
so key because we have not built the systems or
the incentives to push companies or governments to lead in this,
(28:18):
and so a lot of the times they follow. And
so what's happening right now is the consumer behavior shifting
to say no, we want to support those businesses that
are willing to take that first step and so our
view is that tentry. Well, we're trying to build this
in many ways, the North Star. We're trying to build
this idea of what it means to be a restorative business,
(28:40):
not just a sustainable one, because to me, sustainable just
means doing less bad, and restorative means doing more good,
which is the future of business. How do you determine
what countries benefit from your program? Where are these trees going?
Is there a vote to their popularity contest? Do they
on it? The prettiest trees win? For sure. The way
(29:03):
we look at it as three things. One is that
it needs to have a really meaningful environmental impact, and
to me, that's not just trees in the ground and
carbon out of the air. There has to be a
biodiversity impact. We plant in areas where there's a need
to prevent soil erosion and getting rid of invasive species,
preventing desertification and things like that. The second piece is
(29:23):
really around the community and the social infrastructure behind it.
At its core, every project we do has to create
a positive community outcome. Locally, there's a lot of youth
activism that we support. We do tree equity and underprivileged
areas but more internationally it involves job creation, food security,
(29:45):
and different poverty alleviation things. And then the third piece
is really we have to be able to audit the
work that's happening, So understanding what are those impacts that
are happening, When are the trees planted, what's the survivability,
what is the socioeconom mac outcomes, and things like that,
and then making sure that the impact we say is
happening today actually persists into the future. That's how you
(30:07):
maintain trust and don't burn it. What role does tech
play for your work, Amanda, in terms of how you
organize yourselves as an organization, in terms of how you
get your message out and amplified it and reach as
many people as possible. Yeah, well, we have an email
list that is all of our supporters and so we
have a range of different ways of managing that through
(30:29):
our back end, and we're just moving actually at the
moment our SAYRM to salesforce. So that's that's actually a
big process for us. So you know, having that all
be seamless and understanding who is connecting with us and
why it is important. And then we have a whole
variety of different social channels that we're communicating. So I
(30:51):
mentioned earlier that we have a specific audience that we've
been trying to influence, which is more conservative people. That's
particularly because our federal Parliament has been dominated by conservatives
who have thought that climate change isn't our issue, it's
a progressive issue, and we've been trying to break that sense.
But then, on the other hand, how do you get
change that we need to engage lots of different people,
(31:13):
and our social channels have often quite a different message
to our media channel, where we're involved more in the
political debate. The social channel will be engaging influences about
things that consumers can do. It might be talking about
how we can create change and what individuals can do.
So we think about our communication strategy as having lots
of different audiences and lots of different pathways to reach them. Derek,
(31:38):
why are tree planting so important in terms of moving
the needle on climate change? Do you have any data
numbers perspective to help us understand the technological power of
a tree in our decarbonization effort. You know, there's no
question that mechanical carbon removal is an important part of
our broader decarbonization strategy, and the reality is that anybody
(32:00):
that tells you there's a silver bullet to this is wrong.
But nature as a whole is a huge part of
our transition right now. And it's not just tree planting.
It's also restoring degraded ecosystems. It's preventing additional deforestation, it's
improving our forest management practices, and it's sea sequestration and others.
(32:23):
But at the end of the day, tree planting right
now is one of our most scalable impactful missions that
we have. And not only is it an important part
of connecting consumers and individuals back to this symbolic thing
that is a tree in nature, which I believe is
an important part of the overall approach to restoring our planet,
(32:47):
but it also is a big part of this idea
that we've had an interest free loan in the global
North for the last hundred years, and when you look
at the vast majority of the areas that we can
really store nature in, it's in areas in the global
South that really can play a huge role in this
decarbonization transition we're going through, and tree planting is a
(33:09):
huge part of that. And so I think the last
piece I would say is that. I think it's a
David Attenborough quote. People won't protect what they don't care about,
and they don't care about what they haven't experienced. Trees
are not just a symbol in our overall decarbonization. They're
also about connecting people back to nature so that they
(33:31):
want to protect it. Is there a most pressing thing
you want people listening to this to know, Derek? If so,
now's your shot, I'd say it's about understanding your power
as a consumer and as an individual. I think for
years and years we've all felt disempowered by the narrative
that's out there, and I think never before have we
(33:51):
as individuals had the ability to influence change, whether it
be through organizations like what Amanda's running and the thousands
of donors that are supporting her and spreading an incredible
and really important pressing message, or whether it be voting
with your dollar and supporting businesses that actually give a
ship and are willing to take a stance. The individuals
(34:16):
never had more power than they do today. Amanda, what
should we be doing to achieve these goals of net zero? Australia, Canada,
United States Earth? We need to get there sooner rather
than later. Yeah, I think it's about all of us
looking in our own sphere of influence, which is where
(34:38):
do we work, where do our kids go to school,
what is the educational institution we're part of, and thinking
about how we can make change with others. So it's
not just about the individual action you can take. If
you're investing intentory for instance, that's doing work with others
to create change and then profile that change. So be
communicating it to our friends. It's possible and it's exciting,
(35:02):
and get on the train with us. I tell people
to use their treasure, their time, and their voice. So
think about where your money is invested, whether it's your
pension fund or whether it's your bank. What are they
investing their money in. There's your time, where can you
be volunteering or putting some effort in? And then finally,
your voice. We all have a voice. We need to
(35:23):
be relentlessly communicating with our political leaders to tell them
how important this is to us. Get on the train,
join us. I am so glad I got on this
train with both of you, two catalysts showing us what
more is possible helping lead our governments, our businesses and
our collective selves to a better future. Thank you very
(35:47):
very much, Derek and Amanda, thank you for having me.
Thanks so much. I hope that after listening to Derek
and Amanda, some of the overwhelming feelings that can stem
from such a massive global issue are starting to subside
a bit. I love this idea that they both spoke about,
(36:09):
this fundamental theory of giving power to your consumer, your audience,
your constituency, your community. When issues are this big, it
can be hard to break them down to two digestible pieces,
and it could leave us all feeling somewhat hopeless. But
the ability to say whoa, my dollar is contributing to
(36:29):
this study or to these trees literally being planted around
the world, that's an empowering reminder of our power. It
puts people back in the driver's seat to really feel
like and know that we can make a difference, and
to take that step further to see that collectively we're
creating more awareness than entire governments or long established corporations
(36:53):
have been able to. That's where real change starts. I
also just love a mandage strategy of getting white men
in uniform involved. We need everyone to see themselves as
part of and benefisheries of climate solutions, including people we
often perceive solely as obstacles to progress. Calling people in
(37:15):
can help us pick the right messengers for the right
communities to move us all forward in the spirit of community.
You will not want to miss Part two of this
climate change conversation coming soon. We sit down with a
very special young woman who is out there doing the
work day in and day out. Because heroes aren't just
(37:35):
the people in government creating policy. They're not just big
time CEOs folks sitting on millions and billions of dollars.
Sometimes they're they're just our neighbors and our friends, people
among us in our communities. Daphne Free Us is a
true example of that, and I'm excited for you to
hear about her work as an activist and champion for
(37:57):
the disabled community. We'll talk more about climate action in
particular and how in action disproportionately targets minority groups. You
don't want to miss this. Are you feeling inspired and
want to check out more information about the organizations we
(38:19):
talked about in this episode. Learn more about our guests
and how you can support their work by going to
salesforce dot org slash Force Multiplier. Force Multiplier is a
production of I Heart Radio and Salesforce dot Org. Hosted
by me Barttune Day Thurston. It's executive produced by Elizabeth Stewart,
produced by Ivan Schien, edited and mixed by James Foster,
(38:42):
and written by Yvette Lopez. A special thank you to
our guests Amanda Mackenzie and Derek Elmsley. Listen to Force
Multiplier on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcast
Hello, Hello, and welcome back to Force Multiplier. It's good
to be back. I know it's been a while, so
thanks for jumping back into the feed. You know, back
in season one, we had so many inspiring conversations with
impressive people, and I'm excited to go even deeper this
season into some of these issues affecting us all in
(00:26):
hopes that we can use this power of collaboration to
take one more step towards solving some of these problems together.
So in this season opener, we are going to talk
about climate change, but through a different lene. Let me
start with a quick personal story host privilege Alert. It
(00:47):
was the summer and I was attending my college reunion.
My first year roommate has since grown up to become
a very minted climate activist. His name is Danielle Giles.
He gave us a great gift at this reunion. He
ran an interactive workshop and his was called The Optimist
(01:11):
Guide to Climate Change. And he had about a hundred
of us in the room and it's this big lecture hall,
and he had a computer projection on the screen which
was a model, a manipulable model where we could determine
the future, what steps we would take to mitigate or
adapt to climate change. What energy policies, what food production,
(01:35):
what transportation and housing infrastructure, And there were tradeoffs, and
there were limits and budget and you could see the
effect in dollars and temperature in people's lives. That session
taught me a lot. It taught and reminded me that
climate change effects everything, that we the people have a
lot more power than we think. That we can vote
(01:56):
with ballots, but also with dollars and with a pension.
It reminded me that technology and culture can play a
huge role in shaping public opinion. You hear stat's like,
we can avoid reaching that Paris accord one point five
degrees celsius if we just cut global emissions in half
over the next eight years. And I look around at
(02:19):
all the stuff we're not doing, kicking the can down
the road, And we said that twelve years ago, we
said that twenty years ago. It can lead you to think,
what's the point. The point is every partial degree increase
avoided is life preserved. It's millions of people and millions
(02:41):
of other species. We're not the only ones living here,
and so even if we don't make the one point
five it's worth it to try, because every effort toward it,
every partial reduction, is improving life for someone, is improving
the air for someone, is making a river more habitable
for someone or something. But there's good news. There's people
(03:03):
actually doing something about it, people like my college roommate Danielle,
people like the folks we bring to you in this show,
and even better news. We don't just have to watch
them do their thing. We can help them. We can
help them help us. If we join forces like Voltron
defend the universe and ourselves from the worst outcomes of
the climate crisis. We are in the match of our lives.
(03:28):
And I've brought two amazing players to you for this
roundtable discussion. Joining us from Melbourne, Australia is Amanda Mackenzie,
CEO of the Climate Council and an environmental leader. Amanda
spear headed Australia's largest ever crowdfunding campaign to start this organization,
raising one point four million dollars in a week. She's
(03:52):
the chair of the Center for Australian Progress, sits on
the board of Plant International Australia. But it's her work
with the Climate Council that has really mobilized people. Three
day citizens concerned with the current state of climate change.
Much like Amanda. Our second guest, Dereck Emsley, he's using
the power of technology to reach the masses and create impact.
He is the CEO and co founder of ten Tree,
(04:14):
which on the surface looks like a typical apparel company,
this kind of new brand that might show up in
your Instagram feed. But Derek and his team describe what
they're doing as a tree planting company that happens to
sell apparel. With each of your purchases, ten dree plants
ten Trees, get it to offset your carbon footprint. Two
(04:36):
different guests, one singular mission to save the planet, but
really to save ourselves. Let's dive in. Welcome to Force Multiplier.
Derek and Amanda. Thank you for joining me, Thanks for
having me, Thanks for having me, Amanda. I want to
(04:58):
start with you. Australia is a massive country. You've experienced
a lot of climate related challenges, the big bushfires, the
hardest day on record, and then things got pretty biblical
with the floods too. So it's like it's burning, it's
too dry now, it's too wet, there's too much water.
How is everyone in Australia doing it right now if
(05:19):
you could just give me an individual report every Australian
how y'all doing. Yeah, we have had everything and people
are pretty tired. We have a phrase in Australia called
She'll be right mate, and that's generally used for just
about everything, but people are not using that phrase so
frequently now. I think since Black Summer, which happened just
(05:41):
before the pandemic, where we had fire starting in winter.
They didn't end till autumn. At one point a thousand
miles of forests was on fire. It was just the
most massive event. And since that time we have had that.
As you said, the biblical floods. One of the records
there was two meters above the previous record. It was
(06:02):
absolutely huge. If you can imagine a McDonald's restaurant, there
was one of those big McDonald's signs out the front.
The water was up to the yellow arches. So we've
had our fair share of extreme weather events for the
last few years and people are really worried. We've got
an election on and it's one of the big issues.
What are you doing about it? In terms of the
(06:22):
climate Council can just briefly explain what the climate Council
is yeah. Sure. So we were set up almost eight
years ago now when Conservative leader Tony Abbott came into
power and we had previously been a government body called
the Climate Commission. That body was established to provide expert
commentary on climate change the general public. It was an
independent government agency and the first act of the Abbott
(06:46):
government was to abolish the Climate Commission. It was quite
a statement to say, we don't want to be acting
on climate change. That's been part of our platform, and
we're going to get rid of these guys that are
educating the public. They took down the website, all the
resources on day one. Was this like a no evil here,
no evil kind of thing, like if we don't know
then it won't hurt us. Oh absolutely, And we don't
(07:08):
like these scientists always telling us that there's a big
problem on the horizon, so why don't we just get
rid of them. So four days later we did a
crowdfunding campaign which was at the time the most successful
in Australia's history. We raised one point four million dollars
in a week to create a new organization called the
Climate Council. And the idea was to get an organization
(07:29):
that could be that independent provider of information to the
public so that people knew where they could find a
trusted resource. But then as we've evolved over time, we've
done more and more work, particularly around communicating to lots
of different audiences in different ways to make climate change
really salient. In the past, climate change has been an
issue often just for sort of policy wonks and scientists
(07:51):
and politicians to debate. We want to make it something
that firefighters are talking about, the doctors at solar installers.
And then we do a range of other projects which
are around direct advocacy, particularly to local governments and state governments,
because we've had not much success in getting our federal
government to act on climate change, so the other levels
have been really important. Do you ever thank Tony Abbott
(08:13):
for inspiring the creation of what sounds like something much
more robust than the thing that it replaced. Yeah, it's funny,
isn't it, Because at the time it was terrible to
have this thing be dismantled, and then it rose like
the phoenix from the ashes. And now our budget is
i think eight times the size of the previous Climate Commission,
and we substantially outlastedt Tony Abbott as well, whom you
(08:34):
have deposed. Oh that's beautiful, So you're literally more sustainable
as well. I really yeah, that's great, Derek. I want
to welcome you as well and get into what you're
up to. You've described your company Tentry as a tree
planting company that happens to sell close clothes, which I
(08:57):
have recently purchased. By the way, I'll let you know
how they turn out. Why do you believe this is
one of the most effective ways of combating climate change? Yeah,
I mean, I think there's a couple pieces to that
that question. I think one is where tree planting sits
in that broader conversation, and the other is the approach
of creating a business around this idea of giving back.
(09:19):
And you know, I think Amanda position what they're doing
so well in some of the challenges that are often
faced by organizations when they're dependent on you know, whether
it's a government approach where the incentives aren't necessarily aligned
with actually creating long term sustainable change. So we started
our business Tentry about a decade ago now, and really
(09:43):
the focus for us was, to your point, to create
a vehicle that allowed us to plant trees and in fairness,
we were really agnostic as to what the product was.
It was less about creating an apparel business, and it
was more about creating a vehicle that allowed us to
sort of share the message. And the message for us
was really this idea of planting trees, showcasing the impact
(10:07):
tree planting could have, and connecting people at an individual level,
which again just resonates with what Amanda was saying, connecting
your everyday person with how they can create an impact.
You know, I think it's so important these days when
a lot of the messaging out there has become really disempowering.
We need to inspire people to take part in action
(10:30):
and actually be a part of making change. And so
for us, trees are an incredible symbol and they also
create an incredible impact. Well and in the impact is
something I want to zoom in on, and then I
have a shared question for both of you. But on
the tententry model, Derek, A lot of us have been
exposed to these by one give one sort of business models.
(10:52):
For every shoe I buy, I give a shoe to
another person that we both just have one shoe. I
don't know how at all adds up, but how is
your model building beyond that by one give one kind
of framing. We have to date planted over seventy five
million trees. Our goal is to plant a billion trees
(11:13):
by The reality is, though there's a lot of messaging
out there that's using these ideas of impact and this
idea of tangibility, and the reality is as oftentimes that
product might create a negative impact, and they're using that
consumer messaging is a vehicle to inspire a purchase when
(11:35):
they're not living up to the values and things like that.
So for us, first and foremost, we ensure that the
product that we're using as a vehicle has as little
negative impact as it can possibly have, so that means
it's sourced sustainably. We use ethical manufacturing, and we offset
our scope one, two and three emissions. But the second
(11:57):
pieces we plant ten trees for every product we sell.
And your question was how do you make sure that
it's not creating reverse effects? And we've been fortunate to
visit these sites all across the globe in areas like
Senegal and Madagascar and Canada and US. And what's amazing
(12:18):
about tree planting is, to use the old adage, it's
not about giving somebody a fish, it's about teaching them
to fish. The negative impacts in a lot of areas environmentally,
particularly around deforestation, are results of people needing to provide
food for their families, shelter, firewood, things like that, and
(12:39):
they cut down trees to do so. So planting trees
isn't just about putting sticks in the ground. It's about
making sure they're getting done the right way, with the
right community incentives, with the right long term impact. You
both have talked about connecting people and getting past the
doom and gloom messaging, whether it's through planting trees or
(13:02):
just through clearer communications about the climate crisis and what
we can do about it. Amanda, you even get very specific.
Firefighters are engaging. What does that connectivity and collaboration look
like when you take this white spectrum of forks and
connect them to this very important topic through your work. Yeah,
it's a great question. One example has been working with
(13:25):
former fire chiefs, and we call them SCS responders, those
that respond to floods and other sorts of disasters. So
a few years ago now, prior to the Black Summer
huge fires, we saw that those sorts of fires would
be on the horizon and brought together a whole range
of these former fire chiefs and former is important because
it means they've got a lot of capacity to speak.
(13:47):
They're not limited by their government role. So we have
had that group of emergency responders coming out in the
media and consistently putting a view forward around what sorts
of measures we should be taking to prepare for these
sorts of events, warning the federal government that black someone
was going to come, and that's been really effective in
changing hearts and minds because those people are so trusted.
(14:12):
They're unexpected. You know, people are used to seeing activists
or wonky scientists in the media, but having these older
white guys in suits and uniforms talking about climate change
is a bit different and it caught people's attention in
a really new way. And that group has now gone
on to hold a summit around how do we prepare
for these sorts of events and bringing together a whole
(14:33):
lot of different people, so local governments who are directly
affected and preparing communities, Indigenous people who have used fire
to manage the landscape from time immemorial. So there's so
many important lessons that white people should have learned about
how to manage the Australian landscape, and now there is
much more dialogue around learning those lessons in preparing for
(14:55):
worsening fire conditions. So the emergency leaders were sort of
the first that came out with a lot of authority
and then been bringing a whole lot of others together
in how we respond and arguing for a level of
preparedness for these sorts of events, but also that we
need to be mitigating climate change at the same time.
I just want to congratulate you on a very savvy strategy.
(15:17):
Was that purposeful or did it emerge unexpectedly? It was
certainly purposeful. I think one of the key audiences that
we need to change has been older conservative males in particular,
and having people that look more similar to them rather
than the radical activists or whoever it is speaking was
really important. So we've used firefighters, we've used doctors, we've
(15:40):
used former defense chiefs as well. So getting all the
old men in suits like men in some kind of uniform. Yeah,
that's right, No, that's great. I mean people have all
kinds of feelings about a lot of different jobs in
this country, but firefighters, believe still maintain a very very
(16:01):
high approval across all kinds of devices. Derek, I have
a similarly inspired question because you also mentioned the connection
that people make and you're able to bring folks together.
What does that feel like for tententry. What communities are
you connecting? What ideas are finding new purchase through your
business model that might not have existed before for us?
(16:24):
At the end of the day, it comes down to
the consumer. Amanda alluded to this where you're kind of
dealing with the old guard and trying to change the conversation,
and the consumer is at its core what drives change,
whether that be the consumer as a voter for a
government or the consumer voting with their wallet for what
(16:47):
brands and products that they're going to support. And so
when I think of the connection, it's really about inspiring
the consumer to recognize the impact that they're actually able
to create by shopping mindfully, shopping sustainably. Everything we do
is about creating a clear sort of educational and empowering
(17:09):
narrative that connects that customer with their ability to have
an impact. Because our belief is we can create an
amazing outcome just through planting trees, but we will have
a far greater impact long term, if we also inspire
people to realize that they can have a voice, and
they have many ways to sort of actually bring that
(17:32):
voice to life, whether that be through buying a sustainable product,
voting in other ways, and actually being out and sort
of evangelizing their beliefs. You're listening to a podcast called
Force Multiplier, Action meets Impact. Now. I'm sure you've grown
to expect ads baked into your podcast, but we're going
(17:54):
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We've donated our ad space to the organizations that need it,
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your host for Force Multiplier, but I'm checking in with
you with a little different energy because if you're listening,
you like the show, and if you like the show,
(19:17):
you might like my other show, How to Citizen, where
we take citizen as a verb and find out from
people practicing the ways we can shape our community by
showing up, investing in relationships, understanding power, and valuing our
collective selves. Check it out at how to citizen dot
com or wherever you get your podcast. So people have
(19:46):
to feel their power, That's part of what I'm hearing.
They have to feel connected, have a new access to
this topic, one that they can directly relate to, and
then they can point to something and say I did that.
You know, if I helped fund the climate counts, And
then I see these reports about reports that you're publishing
where you easily explain the I P C C reports
that have so befuddled most of us. I can see
(20:09):
the results of that impact, and with tentry, I can
see the results of the trees that I've planted. What
else are y'all doing, Derek, especially this Climate Plus program
to kind of deepen that connection to the individuals so
that they feel some sense of ownership over the solutions.
So for us, the biggest power of trees is the tangibility.
I mean, when you think of this idea of a
(20:31):
pound of c O two in the air, it's really
hard to grasp and create an emotional connection. But we
all inherently have some sort of emotional connection to trees.
So everything we do is in service of connecting this
customer with the trees that they're planting. So over the
last four years, we've created a technology that we've rolled
(20:55):
out across all of our projects to collect data directly
from the ground and connect that consumer with it, so
that every single product has a QR code that you
can scan, find out where your trees are planted, learn
a little bit more about the impact, and you're actually
able to download a digital what we call impact wallet,
(21:17):
where you're actually able to see, you know, the impact
you're creating after your first, second, third purchase. And we're
starting to bring other businesses into the full two so
that if you're planting trees with ten Try, you can
see that impact, and if you're planting with others, you're
able to see that too. So we're really trying to
gamify and make this idea of having an impact tangible.
(21:40):
I have two quick notes for you on that. One,
you sound like the lorax from Dr SEUs speaking for
these trees. Thank you for that. And if you ever
dive deeper into the web three world, those uh impact
reports and kind of proof of your tree, clearly they're
going to be in f trees, so you're welcome. We
(22:03):
we have built our platform with that in mind. I
mean the idea behind very Trees that when you look
at the broad conversation, we've created this carbon tunnel vision
around tree planting, when in reality there's so many other
benefits that tree planting can create, but when we're just
looking at satellite images, a lot of that gets lost.
(22:25):
Our program that we built is meant to collect that
data from the ground in a way that's verifiable, auditable,
and transparent, and then we also put it on that
block chain so that we're able to create these fungible products,
these n F trees that you talk about, and actually
create something that hopefully as value, because if if one
(22:47):
day we can actually value nature, then we're all going
to be a lot more interested in preserving it. I'm
feeling good about a lot of what you all are sharing.
I'm still honestly angry about where we've allowed ourselves to
get Amanda. A lot of the reason we're here is
(23:07):
because of explicit goals to miscommunicate the science and distract
us and deny these truths to the point it's very
expensive to reckon with them now in life in dollars
and in the limited time that we have to adapt
and mitigate to these circumstances. What happened or what didn't
happen as a part of the communications failure around the
(23:30):
climate crisis, Yeah, it's a really important question. And one
of the key things that happened was that the fossil
fuel industry took the lessons that Big tobacco had learned
as to how to delay action on an issue and
implemented many of the same people that had worked in
big tobacco, confusing people using a range of tactics when
(23:54):
and then worked for the fossil fuel industry and for
countries like Australia in the United States counter that have
big fossil fuel interests. It has substantially altered the debate
the Australian politics. For instance, we have gas lobbyists and
coal lobbyists that are in a revolving door into Parliament
advising some of the key people who are making decisions
(24:16):
on this. So it's no surprise that it's been very difficult.
But what I would say is that if we look
back on this as a thirty odd year period, it
is actually quite a speedy technological and social change compared
to other changes that humanity is witnessed. So it's sort
of holding both things in your mind. One is we
(24:39):
certainly haven't done enough. The issue is all around us.
It's really scary, and there have been people that have
deliberately prevented us from getting further down the track to
tackle the issue. But then on the other hand, there
is a lot of progress going on. So in Australia,
for instance, we have three million homes with solar panels
on the roof, So those consumers have taken action into
(24:59):
their own hands. So we need to be able to
look back and say we have made some substantial progress.
As a long way to go, we need to hold
those people accountable that have prevented us from action. But
we can't let a lack of momentum get us down.
We need to be building that momentum and hope into
the future. As you've been working on and serving on
(25:21):
this council, what has kept you inspired in terms of
communicating the truth or having people feel more empowered and
not just overwhelmed by the size of this challenge. I
feel like action is really an antidote to that sense
of despair or disempowerment. And what really inspires me is
(25:41):
when I look around at the people that are acting,
particularly where there has been a level of inspiration from
what the Climate Council has done. So in our mission,
we describe ourselves as a catalyst, so we see ourselves
as kind of being small and scrappy and able to
help others to tackle the issue in their sort of
(26:02):
sphere of influence, if you like. So we do a
project with local governments that now covers six of Australians
and local governments can get actually a lot done in
terms of reducing emissions, helping local schools put panels on
the roof, or maybe it's electric vehicle charges. There's a
whole bunch of things they can do. So our theory
of change, if you like, is that if you can
get enough momentum going, that's where national governments become followers.
(26:26):
I think we've expected national governments to be leaders. They
generally don't lead, they generally follow. So how do we
create the conditions where they kind of have to begrudgingly follow?
I mean one of those ways is also to shift
not just the communications culture, but the business culture. With Tentry,
you're doing that. It seems like at least on two fronts,
(26:47):
you're promoting a consumer culture of increased sustainability, of awareness
of supply chain visibility like where this stuff comes from
a verified sustainable activity and not just green why, And
you're enabling other businesses to do the same. So it's
not like Tentry has to be the one company in
the world that we trust. Would have been some of
(27:08):
the keys to advancing that culture, Derek, in terms of
both the business behavior and getting businesses to think beyond
their quarterly earnings reports. It's hard. Companies have for years
tried to put the onus on the consumer carbon footprint.
Was more away to say, take the view off us
and think about your own carbon footprint. And I think
(27:32):
what's happening now is that consumers are realizing their own
power and their focus is being shifted back to the companies,
and the companies that lead on these discussions are the
companies that will win. And in fact, when we originally
built our technology, our thought was to really just you know,
power our own planting. But you know, for us, if
(27:55):
tentry can create thousands and thousands of tree farms, our
technology could potentially create thousands and thousands of tentries. And
so how can we continue to multiply our impact? And
Amanda used the word catalyst, and I think this is
so key because we have not built the systems or
the incentives to push companies or governments to lead in this,
(28:18):
and so a lot of the times they follow. And
so what's happening right now is the consumer behavior shifting
to say no, we want to support those businesses that
are willing to take that first step and so our
view is that tentry. Well, we're trying to build this
in many ways, the North Star. We're trying to build
this idea of what it means to be a restorative business,
(28:40):
not just a sustainable one, because to me, sustainable just
means doing less bad, and restorative means doing more good,
which is the future of business. How do you determine
what countries benefit from your program? Where are these trees going?
Is there a vote to their popularity contest? Do they
on it? The prettiest trees win? For sure. The way
(29:03):
we look at it as three things. One is that
it needs to have a really meaningful environmental impact, and
to me, that's not just trees in the ground and
carbon out of the air. There has to be a
biodiversity impact. We plant in areas where there's a need
to prevent soil erosion and getting rid of invasive species,
preventing desertification and things like that. The second piece is
(29:23):
really around the community and the social infrastructure behind it.
At its core, every project we do has to create
a positive community outcome. Locally, there's a lot of youth
activism that we support. We do tree equity and underprivileged
areas but more internationally it involves job creation, food security,
(29:45):
and different poverty alleviation things. And then the third piece
is really we have to be able to audit the
work that's happening, So understanding what are those impacts that
are happening, When are the trees planted, what's the survivability,
what is the socioeconom mac outcomes, and things like that,
and then making sure that the impact we say is
happening today actually persists into the future. That's how you
(30:07):
maintain trust and don't burn it. What role does tech
play for your work, Amanda, in terms of how you
organize yourselves as an organization, in terms of how you
get your message out and amplified it and reach as
many people as possible. Yeah, well, we have an email
list that is all of our supporters and so we
have a range of different ways of managing that through
(30:29):
our back end, and we're just moving actually at the
moment our SAYRM to salesforce. So that's that's actually a
big process for us. So you know, having that all
be seamless and understanding who is connecting with us and
why it is important. And then we have a whole
variety of different social channels that we're communicating. So I
(30:51):
mentioned earlier that we have a specific audience that we've
been trying to influence, which is more conservative people. That's
particularly because our federal Parliament has been dominated by conservatives
who have thought that climate change isn't our issue, it's
a progressive issue, and we've been trying to break that sense.
But then, on the other hand, how do you get
change that we need to engage lots of different people,
(31:13):
and our social channels have often quite a different message
to our media channel, where we're involved more in the
political debate. The social channel will be engaging influences about
things that consumers can do. It might be talking about
how we can create change and what individuals can do.
So we think about our communication strategy as having lots
of different audiences and lots of different pathways to reach them. Derek,
(31:38):
why are tree planting so important in terms of moving
the needle on climate change? Do you have any data
numbers perspective to help us understand the technological power of
a tree in our decarbonization effort. You know, there's no
question that mechanical carbon removal is an important part of
our broader decarbonization strategy, and the reality is that anybody
(32:00):
that tells you there's a silver bullet to this is wrong.
But nature as a whole is a huge part of
our transition right now. And it's not just tree planting.
It's also restoring degraded ecosystems. It's preventing additional deforestation, it's
improving our forest management practices, and it's sea sequestration and others.
(32:23):
But at the end of the day, tree planting right
now is one of our most scalable impactful missions that
we have. And not only is it an important part
of connecting consumers and individuals back to this symbolic thing
that is a tree in nature, which I believe is
an important part of the overall approach to restoring our planet,
(32:47):
but it also is a big part of this idea
that we've had an interest free loan in the global
North for the last hundred years, and when you look
at the vast majority of the areas that we can
really store nature in, it's in areas in the global
South that really can play a huge role in this
decarbonization transition we're going through, and tree planting is a
(33:09):
huge part of that. And so I think the last
piece I would say is that. I think it's a
David Attenborough quote. People won't protect what they don't care about,
and they don't care about what they haven't experienced. Trees
are not just a symbol in our overall decarbonization. They're
also about connecting people back to nature so that they
(33:31):
want to protect it. Is there a most pressing thing
you want people listening to this to know, Derek? If so,
now's your shot, I'd say it's about understanding your power
as a consumer and as an individual. I think for
years and years we've all felt disempowered by the narrative
that's out there, and I think never before have we
(33:51):
as individuals had the ability to influence change, whether it
be through organizations like what Amanda's running and the thousands
of donors that are supporting her and spreading an incredible
and really important pressing message, or whether it be voting
with your dollar and supporting businesses that actually give a
ship and are willing to take a stance. The individuals
(34:16):
never had more power than they do today. Amanda, what
should we be doing to achieve these goals of net zero? Australia, Canada,
United States Earth? We need to get there sooner rather
than later. Yeah, I think it's about all of us
looking in our own sphere of influence, which is where
(34:38):
do we work, where do our kids go to school,
what is the educational institution we're part of, and thinking
about how we can make change with others. So it's
not just about the individual action you can take. If
you're investing intentory for instance, that's doing work with others
to create change and then profile that change. So be
communicating it to our friends. It's possible and it's exciting,
(35:02):
and get on the train with us. I tell people
to use their treasure, their time, and their voice. So
think about where your money is invested, whether it's your
pension fund or whether it's your bank. What are they
investing their money in. There's your time, where can you
be volunteering or putting some effort in? And then finally,
your voice. We all have a voice. We need to
(35:23):
be relentlessly communicating with our political leaders to tell them
how important this is to us. Get on the train,
join us. I am so glad I got on this
train with both of you, two catalysts showing us what
more is possible helping lead our governments, our businesses and
our collective selves to a better future. Thank you very
(35:47):
very much, Derek and Amanda, thank you for having me.
Thanks so much. I hope that after listening to Derek
and Amanda, some of the overwhelming feelings that can stem
from such a massive global issue are starting to subside
a bit. I love this idea that they both spoke about,
(36:09):
this fundamental theory of giving power to your consumer, your audience,
your constituency, your community. When issues are this big, it
can be hard to break them down to two digestible pieces,
and it could leave us all feeling somewhat hopeless. But
the ability to say whoa, my dollar is contributing to
(36:29):
this study or to these trees literally being planted around
the world, that's an empowering reminder of our power. It
puts people back in the driver's seat to really feel
like and know that we can make a difference, and
to take that step further to see that collectively we're
creating more awareness than entire governments or long established corporations
(36:53):
have been able to. That's where real change starts. I
also just love a mandage strategy of getting white men
in uniform involved. We need everyone to see themselves as
part of and benefisheries of climate solutions, including people we
often perceive solely as obstacles to progress. Calling people in
(37:15):
can help us pick the right messengers for the right
communities to move us all forward in the spirit of community.
You will not want to miss Part two of this
climate change conversation coming soon. We sit down with a
very special young woman who is out there doing the
work day in and day out. Because heroes aren't just
(37:35):
the people in government creating policy. They're not just big
time CEOs folks sitting on millions and billions of dollars.
Sometimes they're they're just our neighbors and our friends, people
among us in our communities. Daphne Free Us is a
true example of that, and I'm excited for you to
hear about her work as an activist and champion for
(37:57):
the disabled community. We'll talk more about climate action in
particular and how in action disproportionately targets minority groups. You
don't want to miss this. Are you feeling inspired and
want to check out more information about the organizations we
(38:19):
talked about in this episode. Learn more about our guests
and how you can support their work by going to
salesforce dot org slash Force Multiplier. Force Multiplier is a
production of I Heart Radio and Salesforce dot Org. Hosted
by me Barttune Day Thurston. It's executive produced by Elizabeth Stewart,
produced by Ivan Schien, edited and mixed by James Foster,
(38:42):
and written by Yvette Lopez. A special thank you to
our guests Amanda Mackenzie and Derek Elmsley. Listen to Force
Multiplier on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcast
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