Going Deep

Christina calls in from New Jersey, where she is preparing for this week’s tournament on another Donald Ross gem. Alan winds up riffing on some of the funnier things that have happened to him while reporting stories

Got a question for a future episode? Reach out on Twitter:

Christina Kim

Alan Shipnuck

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to fulls End with Christina Kim and
Alan Schipnuk. We are back at it after a little hiatus.
Uh well, one week seems like forever. Christina, I missed
you terribly. Oh I miss you too, Alan, And huge
shout out to Ryan French for being able to fill
in on last week's podcast since I was traveling and

(00:26):
unable to get to our immediate post Ryder Cup episode. Yeah. Yeah,
Ryan's the best. So he did a good job. But
you know there's only one Christina, So thank you Ryan.
And um back to originally scheduled programming. So tell I

(00:48):
mean I love Ran ever loves Ryan. He's the best. Um,
So tell the viewers where you are at this moment.
You're right now, all I am. I'm in my second
week here in New Jersey. We are uh probably within
a half hour of Newark or so over playing at

(01:09):
Mountain Ridge Country Club for the Cognizant LPG the LPGA
Cognizant Founders Cup, which used to always be held at
the beginning of the year in Phoenix and because of
the PANDEMI uh, Todd and I we always say BOC
nineteen because of COVID nineteen things got switched around, moved around.
We've come across a new sponsor which is fantastic, cognizant,

(01:32):
great company, and it's on a phenomenal golf course. Back
to back weeks on Donald Ross courses and the two
could not be you know, they're they're they're very, very different,
and it's it's awesome. I played Mountain Ridge ages ago
that it was pure m I'm sure since you've played,
they've taken out probably close to a thousand trees. Yeah,

(01:54):
like most like most courses. I mean I didn't I
don't remember being claustrophobic like some of those old Northeast
courses where I mean it's still pretty expansive. But I
know they've been working on the course and I'm anxious
to see it again. But um, yeah, it's true the
in Atlantic City, I mean, it's a ross, but it's
very linxy in um different kind of tests. So I'm

(02:17):
just curious, like among your colleagues, like how many of
them nerd out on the architecture and design the way
that you do well the way I do. There's probably
I mean there's probably a handfuler. So right off the
top of my head, Kendall Die and Marissa Steine are too,
our fellow architect heads that I know. I mean, we

(02:38):
do talk a bit about our favorite architects. If I remember,
Kendall's is CB McDonald and much like myself, Barrissa is
a huge Donald Ross fan. That's cool. I mean, yeah,
do you think that what percentage of the players in
this week's field? I've never even heard of Donald Ross.

(02:58):
Give me a guest. Honestly, it's probably pretty low, I would,
And I guess it's all dependent on what you consider low.
I would say I would say about or so. Yeah,
everyone has different different priorities when it comes to golf courses.
A lot of times you just hear, man, these greens
are big, or man, this course is hard, and that's

(03:21):
about it. Yeah, I mean, fairness on the PGA tour um,
there's plenty of guys who don't care about don't think
about course architecture whatsoever. They all you wanted to make birdie.
That's it. Like that, that's the sum total of their
interest in the golf course. And so for sure, and
there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, that's ultimately your
man date. But I think it's probably if you're going

(03:42):
to spend so much time on golf courses and travel
the world like you guys do. I mean it probably
it's more satisfying to immerse yourself in that world a
little bit and and learn along the way, I would think,
So I know it does for me. Um. You know,
like the trip in Europe where we just had a
couple of months ago where I was treap sing about
on all of these old classic golf courses and just

(04:05):
having the time of my life and you know, finding
out the history like Mr Hogan when he went excuse me,
Ben Hogan when he was over at Panmure prior to
the Open at Carnoustie. UM. But you know, I do
get it at the same time, and if I was
a guy that I hit it three hundred and thirty yards.
Architecture doesn't have a whole lot of relevance when you're

(04:27):
just hitting drivers and you know, as a d CP
tour the drive, chip and putt where you know you're
not a lot of these corners and a lot of
these cameras, you don't have to be quite as concerned
about as a you know, UM, an LPG player, a
female professional or things like that, where you have to actually,
you know, really use the ground or kind of really

(04:47):
know the shot shapes that you're you're hitting, because again
we're not hitting it three hundred and thirty yards. So
the regular listener listeners will have caught your little Mr.
Hogan thing which I was giving you a grief about
and previously, but we never we never drilled down this.
Do you call Nancy Lopez ms? Lopez? Is there like
a Mrs Kartner? Is there an LPGA equivalent to the

(05:11):
the dreaded Mr. I would say it's different. Uh, Cathy
Whitworth I call I. I tried to call her miss
Witworth um. But again, these are people that I know.
These are people that I've encountered throughout my life that
I've had the opportunity and the privilege of being able

(05:33):
to build friendships with. So for me, Nancy Lopez is
Nancy Um. You know, Julie Aster is Julie. Cathy Whitworth.
I try to call her Miss Whitworth, but I generally
call her Kathy. Joe and Connor we call her big Mama,
Like it's uh, you know, it's I think it's different. Yeah,
it's it's different when you don't you know, when you

(05:53):
don't have that personal connection to someone. It's it's you know,
you hold someone in a different type of reverence. Um,
Whereas like, yeah, it's funny because you'll get someone like
a Pat Bradley where she calls she remembers every caddy's name,
she calls every tour player pro except for me. She
calls me Christina, which is really really that's very very

(06:16):
special to me. Um. Because is it is she's trying
to assert her her dominance or she doesn't care enough
to learn people's names. Well, I mean, you know, she one,
she is older, she was older when I first met her. Um,
So I'm I'm not sure I would have to assume
on a side, you know, deep down, on a psychological level,
it's because she wants to assert her dominance and just

(06:37):
sort of you know, just just kind of you know,
she always wants to be the the the alpha female,
which I I can't say I get, but I can
comprehend that if you will, which is which is very uh,
it's very funny. But I'm always like, you know, I'll
see her, you know, maybe twice a year, and every
now and again she'd be walking up and down the

(06:58):
range like hey, pro, Hey, pro a person like Christina, Hi,
how are you? That is satisfying. I can't remer if
we talked about this last time but or previously, but
um Ben Hogan always called Arnold Palmer fella and it
bugged Arnie to his his the end of his days,
like he never Hogan would never acknowledge him by name

(07:18):
and just fella, even when as as Hogan would talk
to you know, other other pros and differently. And so
it's just it's so funny, those subtle little things that
get under your skin. And was Hogan doing that on purpose?
And maybe, um, maybe not, who knows, but I for
a fact that it bothered Arnie. So it's kind of funny.

(07:39):
That's incredible. I love that. Yeah you know, um so
you actually so. I'm I'm basically on lockdown from from
writing a new Future Stories until I get this Nicholson
book done on December one, and then I can sleep
that entire day and then December two, I can't wait
to start like plunging back into feature writing for Firepit Collective.

(08:03):
And I've been thinking I want to go hang out
with Joanne Karner and just like talk about life, smoke cigarettes.
You're not really smoke, and you know, we'll we'll put
whiskey in our coffee, like whatever she wants, I'm down
for whatever. And and just like how great would that
be just to get her going? I mean, she's always
been one of my favorite people, and now there's kind
of like this cult has grown up around Big Mama

(08:25):
because she just keeps going and she's like so authentically herself.
But is that an A plus idea or is that
like just an A plus plus idea. I think that
is a plus plus the I'll give it a plus
plus because I cannot envision you with a cigarette in
your mouth. That's the only thing. I mean. Yeah, my
my lungs are somewhat virgin. But you know, again, you

(08:47):
gotta do what you gotta do for the story. So
cigarette maybe, Oh yeah, no, I used to love those.
You can blow It's like the powdered sugar would come out.
I've ever told you my Rick Ross story, you know,
the hip hop guy, the hip hop artist you have
not so at the super Bowl in Miami when the
Saints won, I was kind of there working on something else.

(09:10):
It's a really long story. I didn't have to write
that night, So Lee Jenkins, great SI scribe, what was
doing the super Bowl story? I was like, I will
be your reporter. I'll just run around and get material
for you. And it was awesome. I was going in
down of both locker rooms. I was chasing people around,
got you know, spray to champagne and um, the whole bit.
But earlier in the week I had linked up with

(09:31):
Uncle Luke. You know, Luther Campbell of two Live Crew
was like the unofficial mayor of Miami. And of course
Jeremy's shocky like caught the winning touchdown. He was a
Miami guy. I had no idea. I mean, I had
no doubt they were going to be like celebrating that
Sunday night after the super Bowl together. So I'm texting
Luke no answer, and finally I said, it is Shocky

(09:54):
with you, and finally like too thirty am. He's like, yeah,
come down. The club cameo up in the v I P.
I was like, I'm there. So I club cameo was like,
you know, Miami Beach or South Beach is obviously pretty
fancy and sparkly, but you don't have to go too
many blocks until it gets a little rough. And so
I show up at club cameo. Um, literally the only

(10:15):
white guy there, which is fine. I love that stuff.
You know, that's part of this job. You have to
be a chameleon and you just you just fit in
with whatever the job takes you. And so I walk
up to the back v I P Room and there's
immense bouncer and I'm like, yeah, I'm here to see Luke.
And it's like it's right out of a movie. He
just like stares me up and down. He's like, m hmm,
I said no for real, like he texted me I

(10:36):
gave I gave my card out of Sports Illustrated Business
card like rolls his eyes and he disappears and he
comes back and I'm trying to read his body language,
and he's like so disappointed that like I could actually
go in the v I P. He's like he really
didn't want to let me in. So I go back
there and it's such a scene. There's tons of ball
players and all these you know, model type slinky women

(10:59):
and um and Luke is surrounded and I'm I'm trying
to like figure out what's going on. So I just
kind of stand in the corner and Rick Ross is
there and he is smoking a blunt the size of
a baseball bat, and he's just he's looking at me,
like you know, And I was like dressing like in
my reporter costume. You know, I've got like a little
Oxford shirt and you know, tuck to my my cheenose

(11:21):
like you know. I was like, I was not dressed
for club cameo. And and so Rick Ross is just
staring at me, and he starts blowing his smoke in
my direction just to like haze me. We're only about
three or four feet away, and I'm just standing there
like you know, I hadn't. I couldn't like lock eyes
with Luke and I had. I was just a little
like trying to get my my sea legs under me,

(11:43):
and meanwhile I'm getting this spectacular contact high just for
Rick Ross. And uh anyway, finally I got shocky, I said,
I said all this infoe to to Lee Jenkins. And
the story was greatly enlivened by my reporting. And by
the time I got out of there, it was like
five am, and I think I had like an eight
o'clock flight, so as I just walked on the beach
and I went and packed up my stuff and I

(12:04):
took off and everyone to sleep that night. So that, yeah,
that was that was like memorable. Um, you know reportage.
That's I mean, that's the fun thing about my job. Honestly.
It takes me into unexpected places where I would I
would never go. I have another story like that. Do
you want to hear, Christina? Yeah, of course they do.

(12:25):
So there was a football player named Lawyer Malloy who
was at he was like all American at University of Washington,
and so I went to go to go meet up
with him. And Lawyer was super cool and I had
I had a convertible Mustang rental car and he sees
the car He's like, you're driving. I said, okay, cool,
So we're going. We pick up a couple of his buddies,

(12:45):
and again we go to this club somewhere in you know,
somewhere in Seattle, probably has appeared in some you know,
sir mix a lot lyrics and and so there's all
these you do, football players and then some Seattle Seahat
guys came in and meanwhile Lawyer starts dancing with this
spectacular blonde and they're just grinding and whatever. I'm like, wow, okay,

(13:08):
this is a good material for my story. But apparently
this girl had some relationship with one of the seahawks,
and so all of a sudden, there's like probably two
dozen very large dudes like jaw to jaw on the
dance floor and Lawyers in the middle of it, and
it's like a mess, right, and so um, finally we

(13:29):
get swept out onto the sidewalk and you know, everyone's
testosterone is pumped and it's like super overheated and there's
like this little pregnant pause and I said, I said
to Lawyer. I was like, hey, just so you know,
if anything went down there in the club, I had
your back, and there was just like two or three
seconds of silence, and these guys are like, what the what.

(13:51):
Then of course they were, they were cracking up, and
you know, it broke the tension and we went up
going out for like the burgers or whatever, and it
just kind of mellowed out. But so yeah, there's you know,
in my back in the s I days when I
was doing more than golf, a lot of funny things
happened like that, which you know again, that's that's one
of the fun parts of the job. That is amazing.

(14:11):
Oh my god, nothing too comfortable on the on the
on the on the golf beat. Um, although there was
in Argentina when I went down to Cordova to uh
to hang with Angel Cabrera after he won the US Open,
and that was unbelievable. Experienced the whole thing, this tiny
little town and tracing his journey from this little rusted

(14:35):
out tin shack but no running water by the side
of an arroyo where he kind of grew up with
his grandma and now he has his hilltop mansion. But
he's still kind of as we know now, Cabrera is
kind of he never outgrew the streets and in some ways.
And so there was this this dinner at this dance
hall and um, you know, you go and walking into

(14:56):
the restaurant and like they would borrow the doors so
no we could get into rout. Uh. Cabrera wind up
drinking so much he fell backwards in his chair out
of the cement floor, like you know, I was crack
his skull kind of thing. And um, so that was
that was memorable. That the whole trip was was nutty.
That whole night was such a mess. And Cabrera winds

(15:20):
up going from this this dinner and he winds up
back and basically his old neighborhood and he roused one
of his buddies the middle of night. He's like, we
need an asada, which is you know, kind of like
like a cookout, and somehow they scavenged like some scrap
metal and some wood and they build this fire like
basically this dude yard and um, and they like cook

(15:42):
whatever and eat in the middle of the night, probably
with their hands and um. The next morning, Luis Fernando
Yosa the report I was working with things in my translittor.
We had it. We were trying to find Cabreri, like
it just disappeared to be We went to this guy's
house and like the embers were still kind of smoldering,
told us the whole story. It was like that was

(16:02):
how the how is how I ended my article because
it was just like so primal and uh, you know,
you can win, you can win a Master's and the
US Open and you can you make all this money
and whatever. But like Cabrera never he was always that guy.
And of course now he's in the pokey because he
he does have a temper and apparently, um that never

(16:25):
changed either. So it's just yeah, it's it's when you
para shut into people's lives for these stories, like unexpected
things happen, no doubt, no doubt. That is amazing, what
a great thing. And that's like those are like just
moments in your life. I was, I mean, I've told

(16:47):
this story before, but I don't think on this podcast.
Do you know that the Dustin Johnson Natalie Gulvis story,
which one this is back like whatever the late two
thousand's that I'm doing a future on dust and and
I go and hang out with them in South Carolina.
He's living with his girlfriend to have a dog. It's
like super domestic. And we went to probably you know,

(17:08):
three dinners together and went out in his boat, and
it was kind of like how Dustin Johnson's like, you know,
he's growing up and he's matured and all this and that,
and so this is like maybe it's like October or November,
and um, it was gonna be a Master's preview story.
That was always how I was envisioned. So I had
the luxury of time and I go to Cappelua to

(17:31):
keep reporting the story and just cover the tournament whatever.
And I'm standing by the clubhouse and Natalie Sachet's by,
and I've done a big feature on her, maybe like
a year earlier. So we were we were, you know,
we had a good we had a good mojo. And
I was like, now, what are you doing? Excuse me
a hug. She's like, well, I just I just came
from the airport and I'm kind of here hanging out
with Dustin. I was like, oh, really, like would be

(17:53):
like hanging out? She's like, well, you know, we're we're
kind of like having a thing. But she's like, I
don't want to say I don't want to saying thing.
I'll let I'll let Dustin handle our pr I was like, okay,
now whatever. So she goes out to watch him and um,
and then Dustin finishes, and I wanted to talk to him,
of course for this story, but he signed his card

(18:14):
and in a dead spirit, and we know Dustin is
a good athlete. He sprints up the hill from the
little scoring Shock to the club and he's gone. Because
now he's back in the hotel room waiting for him.
I haven't really seen each other yet, Like you've never
seen such urgency out of Dustin Johnson. Right, And now
the Mercedes Championship. You know, it's very intimate. All the
reporters are staying in the same place as the players,

(18:35):
and like you just see people all week long in
the gym, at breakfast, Like there's no way you can
hide a Natalie Gulbiss at the Rich Carlton for three
or four days, right, like it's going to get out.
And I'm figured I might as well be the one
who breaks the story because I'm already in the middle
of this big Dustin piece and so but you know,
so now you kind of confirmed it, but I feel
like I should try and get some comment from Dustin,

(18:58):
and so I'm like, alright, fuck it. So I call
the RITZ switchboard. I was like, can I have the
room Dustin Johnson please. Of course, Dustin is not clever
enough to use a different not back then, so so
they patched me through and the phone rings and rings
and rings, and finally he answers it. He's like hello.

(19:18):
I was like, oh hey, Dustin, Like hey, dude, man, uh,
I just wanted to, you know, ask you a couple
He's like calling back in an hour, click like hangs up.
I was like, all right, well, apparently Dustin, and now
they're busy, and so I called back in an hour
no answer. I was like, yeah, fuck it, the story
is coming out. I already got U from Natalie. They're
clearly like a thing. So I wrote up just kind
of a cute, little cheeky item about how, um, you know,

(19:41):
they were a couple. So then, as you recall, that
was very short lived because Dustin still had his girlfriend
and um. And so Natalie and her people are blowing
up my phone after it all goes you know, goes south,
and they want me to like tweet about how Dustin
is like you know, done or dirt the kind of thing.
And I'm like, I'm not going to get in the

(20:02):
middle of this anymore. Like I'm sorry I even had
to write this story, but someone had to write it.
It's out. I'm like, I'm not gonna start tweeting about
the inner workings of the breakup and um. And so
now Dustin's defending champ at the Crosby clam Bake. So
he comes in for like a immedia day and maybe
early January or something, and so I go see Dustin

(20:23):
like through the year, and so I see him, I'm like, hey, man,
you know, I kind of wait, tills all over. I
get him off the Side'm like, hey, I'm sorry, I
blew up your spot. He's like, man as cool that
I put in my story. Like everyone always says, Ustin
has a short memory. You can get over anything, any
kind of heartbreak on the golf course, like well you
kinda or Natalie really quick. So apparently you know he
can't get over it. Yeah, it was. That was a

(20:46):
total mess. But um, there was a period where I
had like three or four years in a row. Um,
when Adam Scott and Kate Hudson were like frocking on
the beach at I had that first put it out there.
I never wanted to be the National Enquirer, but it's
like again, like everyone's there there. And then when when

(21:10):
Paulina showed up at the Mercedes for the first time,
I had that like I probably I should have been
like a gossip columnist because you know, you have to
have a certain eye for these things, and also I
guess you just have to be willing to put it
out there and deal with whatever, never blowback. There was
other There really wasn't much. I mean again, these between
social media and everything else, is not really any secrets

(21:32):
anymore so anyway, Dustin Nalie, I'm sorry doing I mean,
let's be real, like these are things that happened to
you and around you, like it's it's yes, I know,
I mean, god, it was so funny. Well this must
have happened. This would have happened in like the early then,

(21:57):
because I remember, like, um, when we've wrote her book,
as I was, um, uh, you know, as we were
doing our tour and and all of that in the
spring into summer of I don't even remember how I
sent a copy to Graham mcdalas sent a copy too.

(22:18):
I sent a copy to Dustin Johnson, and Natalie told
me she was. She was like, oh, yeah she was,
because you know, at the time, like they were both
in Vegue it's a lot. She was living there and
he was working a lot with Butch and what have you.
And she was like yeah, she was, like I was
at his I was at his I believe, um, she
was at his place. I I don't exactly remember how

(22:39):
that part of it went, but she was like, yeah,
like your book was on the bookshelf. And I was like,
I can't believe I sent a book with words to
Dustin Johnson. And I remember I personalized it. I was like, hey, Dustin, um,
you know somebody like you know, a huge fan of yours. Uh,
if you ever want to play around or play a round,

(23:00):
here's my number, like just just for the case. I
think I did the same thing with Grant mcdoll, like
pretty much a bunch of a bunch of the guys
I you know, anybody that's like kind of golfie. I
would send the same thing too that I was comfortable
with them having my number. Um, so this was this
This would have been post um swinging from my heels release.
Yeah whatever whatever that eleven or twelve, I can look anyway.

(23:26):
That's incredible. Oh god, yeah, I mean it is. It
is the fun part of the golf feet is you
just like things just happen and you're just absolutely that's
that's exactly what it is. Things just happened. I mean, actually,
in Vegas, I was doing a story that back when

(23:46):
Las Vegas was the last tournament of the year and
you had to finish in the top one and it
was a big stress fest. And added on top of that,
it's Las Vegas, so there's always a lot of stuff
going on, and um, I won't, I won't reveal the player,
but they they just sneaked into the top and he

(24:09):
was like, and it, but it was he waited around
for hours in the press room to seek his you know,
the scoring terminals and this and this. I'm trying to
think what year this would have been, Like this is
probably maybe even before the iPhone, so like the best
information was in the press room and so he was like,
they're just watching the scores come in and finally gets it,

(24:32):
gets like it's done. He runs out. He's like, I'm
gonna party my ass off tod and and as it
turns out, um, there was another reporter was staying in
that hotel and apparently this player was celebrating with with
a woman who was not his wife, but and his
wife flew in to celebrate that he had clinched and

(24:54):
there was like a whole screaming like Matt's in the hallways.
This reporter pieces head out, He's like, oh, he made
eye contact with the player, and it was just the
guy just closed his doors like I better not. I'm not.
I don't think that ever appeared in print, and um,
holy yeah, it's just I know, yeah, that was a classic.

(25:17):
Um yeah, I mean because a lot of times you
you wind up staying in the same places as the players.
I always try and get in those hotels because you're
just the observational reporting is great and uh like I
was at the Four Seasons in Dallas UM back when
it was that the Byron Nelson was played there. Whatever
thing of that course was lost cleaness, I think, and

(25:40):
I'll never forget on Sunday it was a fourth season
that lost, yes, yeah, yes, right, and Ernie comes out,
this is Sunday and he made a run at winning.
He didn't win, and he's got huge hands and he
had like a beer in each webb, so like had

(26:00):
like eight beers just stuck in between his fingers and
got in the back of this like town car. It's
like damn and he probably you probably didn't see the
carton of Marlborough Marlborough read in there at the same time. Yeah,
well that was so that was another guy named David Usak,
who's reporter, wound up having a big night with Ernie.

(26:21):
I think it was. I think it was that same UM,
not same week, but the same hotel and Ernie calls
like down to room services, that can you bring me
a pack of cigarettes and they're like, well, sirts, it's
a no smoking hotel. It's like, what's the charge to
clean the room if you smoke? And they're like, go
find some cigarettes and bring them to me. Like that's

(26:44):
that's few money right there. You don't even care, Like, yeah, yeah,
there's I have a similar story that I was told
by someone that's that's pretty close to him, like over
the years, like say more with business, and he would say, yeah,
that's when Theodore comes out, is his alter ego. And
it was the same thing where it was like a
hotel and he was just like he was like, get

(27:05):
me some cigarettes and they're like, well, you can't smoke
in the room. And it was the same situation. And
he had a his private jet was going to I
think West Palm to pick up his wife and the
kids and then going onward to London, I want to say,
or else maybe to Portugal, and his caddie UM was
going to fly commercial and he was like, no funk

(27:26):
that you're getting on the plane with us. Let's go
like we're having too much fun, We're having too good
at a time. So everybody piles in to this aircraft.
They go they pick up his wife and kids, and
there's like like it it's basically been hot box with
cigarette smoke. And when she walks in and the nanny's
there and she's just like, oh my gosh, are you

(27:47):
going to go into the back, And she was like
going to the back, No, you go in the back
with the kids. I'm sucking saying right here. And so
she partied with them all the way to let's say
it was Portugal, and they dropped. Everybody like got up,
got off and left, and the caddy was like, I
live in London and I'm in the private terminal of
an airport or they flew into London and he lived

(28:08):
in port he was going to Portugal or something like.
It was one of those things where it was like,
this is not the end of my journey, and they're like,
we'll see in a couple of weeks, but yeah, it's
actually is the end of your journey. The rest, uh,
they don't really care about. That's that was probably Ricky,
like that caddy that Ernie had off and on forever, Yes,
quite a long time ago. Yeah, but yeah, when he

(28:31):
gets when he gets in a way, that's when Theodore
comes out. Ernie Ernie goes away for a little while. Yeah, well,
I mean, of course it's not become this. This is
like an urban legend that's since been fleshed out. But
him and Steve Marino or on or on a plane together.
Steve Marino is a tour player, had a nice run
for a while. He's one of the first, it's one
of the first guys I think who helped colonize Jupiter.

(28:53):
Actually is as kind of a players. And so they're
they're on the they're on the plane and they're drinking whatever,
and Ernie says, okay, now we fight, and they kind
up like wrestling in the aisles of the G five,
like tossing each other around. And I'm sure that the captain, remember,
was like what the hell is going on back there?
But yeah, that's a classic. Ernie has actually told that

(29:15):
story a few times. It's that it's hard to envision
because I mean, Steve and Steve Brino seems like just
like super like just a nice, chilled out dude. But
hard to imagine him just like, you know, I'm just
gonna hop into jet with with with Ernie els kind
of a thing, you know, like they just seem so

(29:36):
it was interesting. I reported this story hasn't come out
yet for UM for Golf Digests, it's kind of part
of this content sharing agreement we have with them, and
so they wanted a piece on Jupiter and how it's
become the center of the golf universe. I mean, it's
been going that way for a while, but it's really accelerated,
all these new courses being built, including Michael Jordan's and
Phil's moving there. And you know, you've gone down the

(29:58):
list of how it is five of the twelve guys
on the Rider Cup teamer from Jupiter. And but what
was interesting is, you know, the the center of gravity shifted.
Everyone was in Orlando in Lake Nona, and as was
explained to me by a few different tour guys, like
that was really before the big money had had changed everything,

(30:19):
and so everyone wanted Orlando had a great airport, and
um that that was the hub. And then as soon
as that even like kind of the average to upper
echel on tour guy could afford a private, you know,
fractional aircraft, that everyone moved to the coast where most
people rather be anyway, and and so that that was
kind of the timeline like Tiger came all that, the money,
the big money came in, and everyone just fled for

(30:41):
the coast, although a lot of people still live in
in Lake Nona and I are worth are like the Europeans,
you do have to fly back home a lot, and
that's quite prohibitive on a private aircraft. So they still
want the international flight. Yeah, and you can fly to
London from Orlando or at least and the before times
you definitely could. You got flight directed to Dubai. Like,

(31:02):
there's there's a couple, there's a handful of options. You
can fly into Munich, Frankfort, Frankfurt. Um, Yeah, it is.
It is fascinating. There was like a short period of
time in the in between where every like all the
guys were instead packing up and heading over to Albany.
You remember that with like justin Rose and I think
a ton of the European guys um actually end up

(31:24):
going to Albany, and I think some of them are
still there, which is it's an interesting move. Pretty it's
pretty cool. Yeah, that's in the Caribbean, right, Bahamas, if
I'm not mistaken. Yeah, yeah, that's just like a tax shelter.
But um, I mean, I wonder how many nights anyone
ever spent their Baker's Bay or whatever you know, you
go for you go for a few weeks a year

(31:46):
on vacation, but you claim that as your residence and
it gets you out of all kinds of tax stuff.
Oh talking, that's that's a that's the echelon of wealth
that I am not familiar. Yeah, yeah, well, um, indeed,
I can't. Well, this is one of those classic episodes
where were just like, just whatever the mood takes us.

(32:08):
But why don't why don't you ground things in in
in your tournament? We here a little bit. I mean,
when you sneak into New York City at all to
have some fun, you're not that far away or this
is just now you're just in grind mode. I mean,
we're it's all relative because we're not that far away.
Is still what forty five minutes into the city. That's

(32:31):
that's a long time. I'm I mean, I'm where I'm
staying right now. I'm about between nineteen and twenty four
minutes from the golf course with the my airbnb, and
that is at the outer limits of where I'd be
willing to stay by way of the golf course, because
I just don't want to be in a car for
that long. Um, So we'll we'll see, you know. I mean,

(32:52):
I love the city and it's a great time of year,
um here you know, in in autumn, here in October
in the Northeast is just spectacular. But you know, part
of part of me is like, you know, what, life
is fleeting, but life is very long. So you know, realistically,
until things start calming down, um, you know, with with

(33:13):
the pandemic, especially with the colder weather, people are gathering
more indoors and you know, the Delta variant ship and
lord knows LAMB does on its way. Um. Between that
and just you know, some of some of the heated
politics that are going on right now, I think it's
it's probably better to just sort of just kind of
focus on on on where I am now. And I'm
a two hour flight from the city, living in Orlando,
so it's it's very quick and easy for me if

(33:34):
I wanted to go up for a weekend or something
like that. Have you ever done that? Have you ever
done that? Yeah? I did that once twice. Maybe I
did well, I did that once for business, but it
was like it was when I was signing with Octagon
back when it was Octagon, when they actually um represented
golf players. UM. In the States, they focus a lot

(33:57):
more now on just events, um and every other in yes, yes, exactly. UM,
so I did go up there, and then you know,
trapes about but a lot of it is, you know,
going to kay Town, going to Chinatown and things like that.
And again, you know, just just I've never been to
Times Square. I can, I can. I can readily admit that,

(34:20):
and I'm okay with that for now. That will change
at some point because it's it's funny, you know, it's
really fun at eleven o'clock at night when all the
shows let out on Broadway and all of a sudden
just gets flooded by people and everyone's in a great
mood because they've just seen some you know, stimulating performing
arts and it's kind of nighttime in New York and um, like,

(34:45):
you don't have to spend much time in in Times Square.
There's not really much there, but it's definitely fun to
walk through it at that moment. And um, but yeah,
I mean time screat much, but there's so many other
other great things to do. But so, what is how
are you feeling abou at your game right now, and
I know you didn't, you didn't have the best last
three weeks. But yeah, it's actually it's funny because my

(35:08):
dad called me after after my first round, was like,
you shot six under the last time you were there.
What are you doing? And I'm just like, I'm under
plane so much with my hands right now that it
is just like because for me, you know, I was
talking about my putting woes and things like that, but

(35:28):
there's just always there's something like that I couldn't quite
put my finger on and it was just like, son
of a bit, my hands are so far under plane
and I'm not rotating, and you know, my wrists are
are are bowing way too much, way too early. That's
causing it to go under plane. It's it's different from
just swinging shallowly like it's just this so you know,

(35:51):
it was like after I, uh had my shitty round
on Friday, Todd and I went to the range and
we're working on a few things. And then Saturday around
and you know, played played better, not you know, broke bar,
but it was nothing. You know, It's just it's I
love that fucking golf course and it's I've had so
much success over there, But it was just one of
those things where it was like, well, if I don't

(36:13):
have nine birdies today, chances are I'm not going to
make the cut. Um. And after the round we went
back to the range and hit balled again, UM, and
then made our way up to New Jersey. I did
go to Island, the Island Beach State Park, and I
caught two flounders um fly fishing on on the beach

(36:39):
with a fly that I myself had personally tied. It
was pretty fucking cool. Um. And did you catch and
release or was that? Like? Well, two things. One, the
flounder season had just ended, probably the weekend before UM.
And two, for the most part, I'm going to do
catch and release unless it's like I am specifically going

(37:01):
to make dinner. And you know, we did not go
with a cooler or a knife to gut the fish
or anything like that. Like the vast majority of our
our fishing is going to be catching release just because
it's you know, it's just fun to you know, I
have a little bit of a fight with the fish
and everything. Poor thing was probably terrified and for that
I am sorry, but you know, just send them on
their way. And did just send them off. Just a

(37:21):
lot of fun. And it was when I was casting,
because it was the tide was starting to creep back in,
Like I was kind of I was walking down a
little ways from this one spot where I caught everything,
and this guy like just totally like swoopes he he um.
He sniped in and like took my spot. And Todd
was like, dude, what the hell? And like we kind
of turned around and the guy had caught a flounder,

(37:43):
but again, the season was over, so he was like
this fucking fish just kicks like a football straight back
in the water. And I'm like, what go And Todd
was like that, He's like this, all of these things
are just such poor, you know, fishing etiquette. And he
was like you know what. He was like, you should
really go and reclaim absolutely absolutely, And he was like, well,

(38:04):
you should probably go and try and reclaim your spot.
And I'm like what, I Like, I don't know what
that means. So I was just doing what I was doing.
I was just like casting, and and it was sort
of like when you have a dog that knows it's
not allowed to sit on the couch, but it just
kind of like looks at you and then sort of
like backs its way in and then it gets like

(38:25):
one hind leg onto the couch and then the other.
It's like I'm not I'm not on the cow. It's
like I'm We're maintaining eye contact this whole time. And
so I was just sort of you know, backing it
up into back towards my spot, and I wasn't paying
attention because I was like just actually actively trying to
feel like, you know, what the hell casting is. And
Todd was watching. He was cracking up, and he's like, yeah,

(38:45):
the guy like he like sort of knows you coming in,
and he was getting he was like, you know, like whatever.
And then because the guy was just beach fishing and
I was fly fishing on the beach and you know,
I'm sitting there thinking that I'm holding Excalibur. I have
no fucking clue what I'm doing. And so the g
I was just kind of like, uh you just like

(39:05):
picked up his stuff and then like walked away. But
I don't know how close I got the fly anywhere
near him, but he was like I don't this is
not I you know, it looks okay over there too.
I'm gonna go on that side. That's awesome. I mean,
it's kind of a nice new hobby for you. This
is like a new thing, so I'm happy for you.
I've only done a little bit of fly fishing, but

(39:26):
there's something very rhythmic and peaceful about the whole thing. Obviously,
by definition, if you're fly fishing, you're probably standing somewhere
pretty and you're in nature, and like, I think that's
just good for the soul to be abut there, absolutely,
and just being in the salt water is great. And
it was funny because you know you have to walk
up you know, it's it's you know, maybe like four
yards or something like that, through the sand and everything,

(39:47):
and I just remember thinking, like we're okay, okay, we're
on Island Beach State Park. We're not anywhere near We're
closer than we are in California or in Florida or
in in Oregon, but we're not where the Long Island
Killer was dumping all of those sex workers bodies. Because

(40:08):
it was it was the same thing, like you know,
you get those like tustics and everything, and you get
like the the small um wooden fencing and everything going on,
and I was just like, is this what Like, I mean,
I'm not scared because I mean I'll protect a ship
out of Todd and me and and and you know,
worst case, he can protect us as well. But I
was just like, we'll be We'll totally be okay. But
I was like, this kind of it's kind of spooky

(40:28):
and it's it is beautiful though, And I love being
in parts of New Jersey that are so different from
what anybody ever thinks of New Jersey because everyone thinks
New Jersey's new work and it's like you, what's wrong
with you? Is gorgeous here, Like you've got these huge
like the two eighties or the two eighties, and you
got these huge rock quarry like rock was cliff, uh

(40:52):
you know stone cliffs along the highway and everything like it.
It's it's beautiful, lots of changes. There's a lot nice
beaches too. So when I was living in New York City, Um,
the Sports Illustrated work week, everyone had basically Sunday and
Monday were the big days to get the magazine off
for the printer. Then we get Tuesday and Wednesday off.
This is when I was working. Um, this is basically

(41:15):
mid to late nineties I was just there as as
a writer, but most of my friends were working in
the office, and so we would rent a house on
the Jersey Shore and go down there on Tuesday Wednesday
when it was totally dead in the summertime, and play
golf and and be on the beach, and we had
it all to ourselves. Like there was no evidence of
like Snooky and those kind of Jersey Shore characters because

(41:37):
you know, there's totally different seed on the weekends. But yeah,
a lot of nice little public golf courses and um,
there's there's some there's there's some neat spots there. So yeah,
I would say Jerseys underrated, uh state in general. And
then's I mean, we've got Pine Valley, You've you've got Baltistra,
mountain Ridge, you have County. I mean there's there's tons

(42:01):
of good golf Ridgewood. Yeah, there's there's a there's a
bunch of real Yeah. No, it's great. And you have
those bagels or bagels how do people pronounce them around
your bagel? Also, some Somerset Hills that's my favorite. Have
I played there yet? Oh God, if you said like

(42:21):
ten rounds between Pine Valley and some Hills I'd probably
take at least four. It is so pure. I feel
like I have a friend who's a member there and
they have one of the most absurd ryder Cup esque
events of anywhere in the country. I feel like it
might be at Somerset Hills. I could be wrong, but

(42:43):
I couldn't be. There's a bunch of U s g
A types or members they're like, it's it's definitely it's
a pretty cool membership, notwithstanding the blue coats. But yeah, anyway,
just kidding. I like the U s g A. Their
hearts in the right place. They screwl all things up,
but their heart is in the right it That means
that they're human. Come on, everyone's doing the best. You

(43:04):
can't pay Between the players, the PGA, tour, the agents,
the equipment companies, everyone's trying to make money except for
the u SG they're just but they're the ones that
they do make money. But that's not their mandate or
their their mission, Like, um, where's everyone else that's you know,

(43:24):
that's their gods. So the USG makes mistakes, but more
client take their side and all these scuffles because they
are there's more of a purity to what with they're
what they're supposed to. Absolutely absolutely. Anyway, we digress, Well,
this has been like a super discursive, fun episode, but um,

(43:45):
I don't know what else do we give me? Two
minutes on on on Bryson in the Long Drive. I watched.
I was one of the forty plus people that watched.
I watched as was it was it was Bobby was
a Bobby Dwyer. Yeah, I'm so bad with names, but
Mike Dobbin and Bobby I forget his last name, where

(44:06):
the two announcers on their YouTube channel. They did a
phenomenal job. I probably love those guys. I watched a
little bit, but it was there was so much Bryson
Long Drive content I kind of turned me off. But
objectively what he did was incredible. I mean that's like
it's a completely different sport than what he does for

(44:28):
his day jobs. And um, I think he showed that
accuracy is more important than people think, especially when I
got windy, just like keeping it on the grid became
important and so he still got two ball speed, Like
that's pretty bad. Not the longest. He's not the longest
driver of the golf ball in the world, but he's
probably the longest straightest driver is really pretty incredible performance.

(44:51):
And I mean, I'm trying to think of what them.
I guess you'd be like leading the NBA and scoring
and winning the slam dunk content, and there's there's some
crossover between the physicality and stuff. But you know, and
I suppose Michael Jordan did that. That's why it's Michael Jordan's.
But there's it's just it's rare to have the power

(45:15):
and the um, just the physical gifts needed for that
long drive and would also be able to actually get
the golf ball in the whole. I mean, it's a
it's a big few weeks for Bryson. You know. I
was at Whistling Straits, of course, and the people there
loved him. He was a lot of fun to watch
in match play, and of course everyone knows about his
four and tempte yard drive on that part five, and

(45:35):
he just brought a great energy to that and he
was really thriving on it because it was like the
first time all year that everyone's been cheering for right
and um and you could see just the lightness of
being and and then to go do it at the
at the long drive. I mean, maybe maybe things have
finally turned the corner for Bryson. I mean, he's kind
of been, um the whipping boy in a lot of ways,

(45:57):
and no question, a lot of it is as fault.
He says a lot of dumb things and he makes
some really head scratching decisions, but um, it has gotten
a lot of control. I mean the heckling and the
Brooksie stuff and all that, and I think he was
pretty close to his breaking point. And um, I do
think the Ryder Cup times the Long Drive was like

(46:18):
a kind of a cool reset for him to remember that.
So just just go out there and have fun and
do your thing and you don't have to, um, engage
in all this other stuff. And and what he does
is objectively awesome. I mean the way he attacks the
golf course and he played great at the Ryder Cup.

(46:39):
Help help win that for the U S m A.
And we did that. The Long Drive was mind boggling.
So it's like, if I would we've talked to us before,
I'd like to be able to appreciate Rice. And I mean,
I think so much of what he does is interesting
and unique and cool, but um, he just just he
can be his own worst enemy at times. But I
do feel like something in the air kind of changed

(47:01):
in this little stretch. We'll see if it how long
it sustains, and if he can you know, stay out
of his own way. Yeah, I agree completely with that.
It was and I it was. It was interesting because
just seeing for me, um, you know, catching the Ryder Cup,
you know, was was it was. It was awesome and

(47:22):
it was phenomenal. And I didn't catch much of the
press conferences afterwards or anything, but he just, you know,
he sounded less and I don't know if it's intentional
what he normally does, but there's a difference between sounding
smart and intelligent and just sounding like you're better than
everyone and really being able to be part of a

(47:46):
team and be embraced by, you know, even if it's
only a handful of guys. I don't know if it
really truly was all twelve of them were we're we're
walking instep because it was. It was a little bit
eerie knowing that in their press conferences, as they all
used the same terms, and you know, it was it
was just kind of I don't I didn't. I wasn't
quite sure how authentic it really was, especially at the

(48:07):
beginning of the week, I'm like, dude, once the tournaments over,
then yeah, you guys can all say the same exact
sentence at the same time, and you know that could
show a sense of unity. But when they were just like,
the camaraderie is amazing. We all talk about our interests
and we determined there are many in which we all
have in common. Um, you know, especially since there's so

(48:29):
many of these guys are so different that you would
be like, oh, really, like you, what are your thoughts
on um, you know, fucking nuclear fission? Justin Thomas or
any of those other guys you know, Um, except for
calling Mariy cow. I look, he looks like he'd be
like mad into that kind of stuff. But you know,
I feel like Bryson when I was watching him doing
the long drive after the Ryder Cup, Like I I

(48:50):
appreciated it and it was almost like, dude, you look
like you fit in with these like these these these
these big burly knuckleheads that are just fucking ripping at
the ball, you know, and a couple of them actually
really good swings. I was actually really impressed. Um, But
it was just like one of those things where I'm like, dude,
like you can be a mathlete, but don't be a like,

(49:13):
you know, don't be a math's whole, you know, like
you can you can just just be a dude, you know.
And and if someone you know, learn to read people,
because if they're not going to understand, you know, the
probability of this or that or whatever whatever, don't fucking
bring it up in that way. Like put the effort
into to try and say things in a way that

(49:35):
other people would understand. And then you could say, you know,
and that's called you know, the probability of you know,
the precipitous that whatever of the you know, this layer
of our atmosphere or whatever the hell it is, you know,
like it's it's it's something that people can actually retain
instead of just being like I'm gonna say this and
if you want to be on with me, you have

(49:55):
to google it, like, you know, like you can you
can actually teach why you're doing it. And I felt
like he chilled out a lot, you know, and I
was like, dude, like it's kind of cool just seeing
his brute force, like and it was like I felt
really bad because I was like, dude, I actually don't
I don't hate this guy. When he just shuts his
damn mouth. And I felt bad for saying that, but

(50:16):
it was just one of the things that I'm like, dude,
there's because there is there is a huge amount of
potential for him, and um, you know, and and he
has been, you know, he's been bridging the gap and
it's it was great for the the Professional Long Drive
Association to have him there because they got you know,
at one point, there were over forty people that were

(50:36):
streaming the live stream of the of the championship. I
was one of them, and I kept it on the
whole time I watched, uh, you know, because of the
timing of everything, I couldn't get out there until um,
the Master's division, which are the seniors or if they
call it the seniors, it used to be masters. But
the gentlemen that are you know, forty five and older
also just wailing at the ball like it's it was

(50:58):
really really cool. And I watched the entire thing, and
you know, watching watching Dobbins and and and Bobby do
their thing while they were announcing, and they were great
because they had so much they were able to share
so much history of the sport. I really really loved
that and and just hearing the passion in their voice
and and and it's not just like, dude, like it was.
They actually genuinely cared, which I thought was really refreshing. Um,

(51:22):
it was a little cheese. Sorry, it was a little cheep,
but I just I was just saying it was just
a little bit cheesy at the end when Bryson came
and gave him his balls, gave Kyle the balls that
he hit, you know, and then the four seventeen or
whatever it was. But I was like, it was just
a little bit of cheese. They're not in like a
bad way, but I was like, hey, did you try
and trying and that was really really bad. But it's

(51:45):
better than it was in the past. So like I'm
seeing progress and I'm proud of you. Dude, I'm proud
of you. I mean, it's kind of like, um, you
know movie stars that used to be the miss surrounding
them is what made them intriguing, and they're they're scarcly
you know, the ones who didn't do interviews, they didn't

(52:05):
know anything about They're the ones who could like disappear
into the roles and then modern media, you know, you
like Tom Cruise, I don't know Tom Cruise and you
find out he's kind of a wing nut, and maybe
you're not into Tom Cruise anymore. And it's hard to
when you're watching a movie, you're just thinking about him
jumping on an Oprah's couch and you know, all all
of his his weird stuff with l Ron Hubbard, and

(52:26):
like Rice would be better off taking the playbook from
like the old movie stars, where just just give your performance,
that's enough. And if he'd like shut everything down on
social media and he cut back on his interviews, that
would help him because then the focus be more on
his performance and when you do on the golf course,
which is cool, but that's also just shutting up and
dribbling though, isn't it to an extent, Well, I'm not

(52:50):
talking about dodging social shues, you can not, but like
that the overall broth thing of just just just you know,
just I'm not saying should be everyone, that's not my
my my playbook for professional Bryson is a particular case.
Like the less we hear about and know about his
everyday life and his thoughts on this and that I

(53:12):
think that the better it would be. And if he
would just like return the focus too, because what he
does in the golf course is awesome and um it
just it gets overshadowed by a lot of the bullshit
Terry so Yes, at the same time, though, as we
see this progression that he makes and as we see
him mature, I mean even like you know, someone like

(53:34):
Phil someone like Dustin, someone like Tiger, you know, these
guys that are you know, really they're unbelievable athletes, and
we're seeing the real human choices that they're making that
emphasizes who they who they are. So the fact that
we've been able to see bryceon at such a young
age and he's too damn old to be acting a

(53:58):
fool now, but you know, he he's he's on his
own path. I think that you know, that redemption arc
is is something that I personally, I'm really excited for,
you know, and I want to see that journey personally,
you know, and you could trust me, you could be
very very right in this because you've you know, you
you you've been around a lot more stars and a
lot more greatness, um, you know, on the men's side,

(54:21):
you know. But again I'm sitting here, they ever ever
the optimists and you know, just sort of you know,
using my my, my emotions and things like that. And
I'm just like man like he's he's showing progress, like
you know, he's he's dipping his toe in the water.
And part of it involves meeting people where they are
instead of just expecting everyone to, you know, like having

(54:42):
forbid the idea of people want to know what you
mean by this kind of a thing, you know, like
actually go halfway, meet them where they are, dumb it
down a little bit if you have to, and then
bring everybody back up together with you when you go
into the full explanation of stuff. But you know, you
need to give you need to have like a gay
Way sentenced to be able to draw people in. And

(55:02):
I think that he has the ability to do that,
which I think is is it shows massive growth. And
I could be so wrong. I appreciate your I appreciate
your optimism. Christina. Anyway, all right, well, I think that
the time has come to release our listeners. But um,
it's great to reconnect. I legit missed you, like I'm

(55:25):
not talking in two weeks. It was just I felt
a little a little askew. So I'm glad. I'm glad
her back. I am to enjoy mountain ridds. Yeah, thank
you and UM, as always, I'll be cheering for you
from afar. So anyway you want to, you want to,
like put the exclamation point on this podcast, I'll do
the damn thing or just the period, I you know. UM.

(55:51):
Just thank you to everyone that's come along this journey
with us in so far. We have a long, long
journey ahead of us as well, so hopefully you'll stick around.
Don't be afraid to. In hell, go ahead and do it.
Go subscribe to our podcast. Give it a rating five
star to be awesome. Um and yeah until next week.

(56:13):
Until next time. Christina Kim signing off here, so thank
you for listening to Full Send with Christina Kim and
Alan Schipnak. Be out bye