November 9, 2023 • 35 mins
Learn the importance of hitting the mark on goals and how it plays a pivotal role in building healthy client relationships.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to season two of the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and
coming stars in advertising as well as the biggest legends
in the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're your hosts, Hailey Romer and Ross Martin.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Now let's meet the legends.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
When we were getting ready for season two of the
Future Legends of Advertising podcast on iHeart, my co host
Hailey Romer and I had a significant battle over who
was going to host which episodes and clearly I won
because I'm the one who gets to host the episode
with Tammy Hanaut and Andrew Robertson. So that is the
(01:02):
episode you have tuned into today. Welcome to the show.
I am going to bring out our first guest, which
is Tammy Hanault, the chief marketing officer of the National
Basketball Association. And before she comes out here and joins us,
just a word or two about this awesome human. She
is being inducted into the twenty twenty three Advertising Hall
(01:23):
of Achievement on November sixteenth. She is part of a
class of seven, the most diverse class in the history
of the Hall of Achievement, and she was a no brainer.
I mean, this was somebody who when we were voting,
it was just obvious. From as soon as her name
got mentioned in the room and she was nominated, it
was like, well, duh, like she's getting in here, and
(01:44):
there's lots of reasons why.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
And you're going to hear about that today as you
get to know her.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Prior to joining the NBA, which she did in twenty
twenty two November, she was the most recently the senior
vice president of Marketing for streaming at Paramount So Paramount
Plus and managed a huge and let's be clear here,
Paramount Plus is a huge success, and she's one of
the biggest reasons why. Before that, managing director of consumer
(02:09):
Marketing for digital products at none other than The New
York Times, where she led acquisition and retention for the
publication and its massive subscription business and DTC business. So
I am really happy to welcome my friend Tammy to
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Welcome.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Thank you so much for that warm welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, Tammy, I guess my first question is do you
have any idea what you're in for at the Hall
of Achievement ceremony.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I have a little idea. I've watched a lot of videos,
so I know have to bring it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You do have to bring it. So there is like
it's a very personal award. It's a unique achievement in
that I know you're going to get up there and
you're going to thank your team and all the people
that you've worked with at the New York Times and
at Paramount and at the NBA. But this is a
very personal acknowledgment of your achievements as a leader and
an executive in marketing and advertising, and so it becomes
(03:02):
very intimate and just very meaningful to everybody who gets
up on that stage. And so I'm excited for you
to feel that and to really be seen in this
way by the whole industry that night.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
I'm really excited too, and so so tremendously grateful for
you know, the support and the recognition. And yeah, definitely
feels like when you're describing the person that you just describe,
it doesn't sound like you're describing me. It's like, who's
that person? You know, It's like unreal.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
When we had Chris Paul obviously NBA superstar Chris Paul
on episode one, he said the same thing. He said
when he got the call, He's like, how me, how me?
How did I get this? And I get it because
he's he was a little bit comparing himself to other
NBA stars who have been huge brand advocates, like Shaquille O'Neal,
who's done like a lot. But I told him, I said,
(03:53):
you know what, like somebody had to win it from
the NBA, and it looks like it's you and Tammy.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And he was very happy that you got it.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
He's very happy that he got I told Chris Paul,
he now has something that his backcourt mate on the
Warriors doesn't have.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
So when he.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Gets on the court with Steph Curry, Steph Curry may
have all these championships and MVPs, but he doesn't have
an induction into the Advertising Hall achievement and you do.
So this episode is going to be really interesting because
we're going to in a minute be bringing out a legend,
an icon, someone I've looked up to for a really
long time. Andrew Robertson, who, as you know, the president
and CEO of Bbdo you've never met him?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Right?
Speaker 5 (04:29):
No, Our first time getting together to chat.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, let me bring him out here. So, Andrew Robertson
has been the president and CEO of BBDO Worldwide since
June of two thousand and four. And for the record,
that's when I started working at Paramount. That's a long time.
I haven't worked at Paramount in a long time. I
was there for thirteen years, a long time ago, two
thousand and four. I mean, he's been leading that company
for a long time, and he's worked with a lot
(04:54):
of brands that I think you and I both admire,
AC and T, FedEx, ge HP, Mars, PepsiCo, SAP Visa.
I mean, there's a lot in there. The body of
work is kind of unparalleled. That's why it seems like
every year BBDO is nominated and then usually wins Network
of the Year for Creative I think they've done that
seven or eight times already, the world's most awarded creative
(05:15):
agency network for thirteen years in a row. I could
go on and on. He's a legend. I'm really proud
and glad that he is joining us on this episode
of the podcast. Andrew Robertson, Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Thank you, Ross. It's great to be here. Nice to
meet you, Tammy.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Like wwise, So Andrew, I'm going to start with asking
you a controversial question.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I don't know you've been asked this before.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Why is BBDO so consistently successful as a creative agency
for so long? What is it that happens there that
makes us all look up to you all the time?
Speaker 6 (05:53):
So I think if you start, there's that wonderful phrase
of having the courage of your convictions, and actually I
think if you really have convictions, you don't need that
much courage. And we have an absolute conviction about the
value for our clients of exceptional creative work, and the
(06:17):
value that that creates for them is disproportionate to anything
else they can do. And because we have that as
such a foundational conviction, it is the focus of everything
that we do. And you kind of have to be
an idiot, I think to say it doesn't matter. So
lots of people will say it matters, but I don't
(06:38):
think they have the same conviction. And I think what
we have done our Montrose, you know, is the work.
The work, the work is we have really every single
day on we really focus on that as the thing
that we're here to deliver and that doesn't just affect
big decisions about you know, big talent hires that you
(06:59):
might make or moves you my make. It affects hundreds,
maybe thousands of decisions around the BBDO world every single
day where you have the opportunity to go one way
or another on something as small as an edit. And
I think, I think if you have that conviction and
you mean it and you live it, and it affects
(07:22):
your decision making, it drives your decision making and everything
that you know, from the smallest to the to the
biggest decisions you have to make every day, then you
have a better chance, just a better chance of delivering
some of the exceptional work that delivers exceptional or results
but gets everybody to look up and say, you know,
we'd like a better that. So it's there isn't anything
(07:44):
magical about it. It's a it is a behavior driven
out of a real conviction that we just mean and
live amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So the work, the work, the work, as your mantra
has been in place and something that's sort of like
burned into every marketer's mind about what BBDO stands for
for a long time. And I wonder, Tammy, as you
step into what is now I think your two at
the NBA or you're still maybe technically in.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Year one that's ten months in.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
You're ten months in.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
What's your approach to getting great creative work out of
your teams now at the NBA as you launch this
new season? How do you inspire the best work from
your agencies and your internal teams?
Speaker 5 (08:28):
Yeah, I think it's like for me, it's been aligning
up front and being crystal clear of what you want
to get out of the work, Like what's the messaging,
who are you trying to speak to? And most importantly,
what do you want people to feel? And I think
as much as you can articulate that, And so that's
where I like to spend the most of my time,
(08:49):
is really upfront on the strategic approach, the messaging, strategy,
the tone, you know, all of those elements that are
ultimately going to make the work strong. And then as
we're going through like reviewing concepts, making decisions around which
direction to go, always going back to that document and
(09:10):
making sure like did we hit the mark on our
goals on everything we wanted to actually deliver on? Because
I think sometimes you can get really excited about some
creative concept or some idea that comes out of the field,
but then when you really take a minute with it
and you ladder it back to those initial priorities, it
might be a great fun idea, but it actually doesn't
deliver on what you need it to do. And so
(09:32):
for me, it's the alignment upfront is really critical.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
I absolutely love the fact that you focused on how
you want it to make people feel, because the data
is so compelling on the connection between emotional power and
effect It is crystal clear that is the thing that
(09:57):
drives behavior more than anything else. And I think that
all too often, you know, in an attempt to be
more analytical and scientific about these things, people focus a
lot on, you know, what the messages that has to
be delivered and what support there is for that, whereas
really you should start with what is the emotion that
(10:19):
we want to create, how do we want people to feel?
Then what message do we want them to understand in
that order, because that is what drives effectiveness more than
anything else, and all too often it's not part of
that original thinking. It's something which we may or may
not get round to at the end. And then actually
(10:40):
the second thing is is anybody going to notice, because
if they don't, nothing else matters. And yet so often
you'll see people starting with you know, is it delivering
the desired message? Well, that's a good question, but it's
the third most important.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Yeah, I completely agree, like making sure that at the
end of the day. And that's why I think making
people feel something is so important, because we all know
that people remember the things that they experience and feel
more than anything else. And so for me, the best
compliment I get from someone who's seen a campaign that
put in a market is tammy. That was that was awesome.
(11:16):
It made the hair, you know, rise up on my arms,
and you know, it gave me chills. Like that's the
type of response that I want people to take away
from it.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You both have worked on the agency and client side
for years, and I wonder a lot of the questions
we get asked and we talk about on this podcast
are really about the relationship between client and agency.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
I wonder if you.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Could both talk about how do you get the best
work out of your agency and how do you build
the healthy, most productive, I guess, magical relationship with your client.
In your case, Andrew, you've got clients who have been
with you for decades and some of the longest lasting,
most prolific relationships. And you must have a bunch of
(11:59):
that figured out because it's got to your I know
it's really hard, but somehow you've managed to build these
relationships with cmos and business leaders who really trust you,
and that allows you to it looks like, take great
risks on their behalf and really win in ways that
others haven't and then tammy for you, you're really at the
halfway mark of your career. That's what the Advertising Hall
(12:20):
of Achievement induction really signifies. And so I guess some
of that is still developing for you, and I'm wondering
how you think about your relationship with your agency roster
and how to make that successful.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
One of we have eleven characteristics that define the best
behaviors in BBDO, and we use them to define our
culture when somebody says, what's your culture? These are the
eleven things that we talk about. One of them is
their clients love them, not like, not respect, but love.
(12:55):
And I believe that if you want to really love
this business the way I do, you have to love
your clients. You have to love them, and if you
love them, they will love you back, and it's a
it is a choice that you make. It's not a
screen that you swipe. It's a choice you make. And
(13:17):
that means you have to love their business. You have
to care about their business. It has to matter to
you as much as it does to your client, and
you have to care about them as individuals. And I
think if you do that, if you do that, then
you have a relationship that is built on or you know,
on real trust. And that to me is you know,
(13:39):
that's always the thing I have felt like I've always
wanted to do, but I've encouraged everybody I work with
to have that mindset love your client.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
I love that. From my perspective, I feel like the
agency relationships that have been most successful are the ones
that feel like a true partnership, where you know the
teams are are working so well together that it feels
like a single team, right, and you almost forget who's
on the agency side or who's you know, on the
(14:09):
client side, and it really just feels like, you know,
the idea could come from anywhere. I mean, I've been
part of campaigns of course, where most of the time
the amazing concept and idea comes from the agency and
then we work together and partner right in terms of
honing it in and making sure we get all of
the nuances and details and the shots right or whatever
(14:31):
it might be. But sometimes there's been like the idea
that would come from my team, right, and then agency
will grab it and make an amazing script around it
that we could never necessarily potentially do on our own right.
But like the negative of the idea came from the team,
and you just build on it and build on the
work together to make it better. I feel like that's
(14:53):
been the best type of agency relationships that I've seen.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Yeah, I think it's funny you say that. A FML
who was our ge client for a long time when
he was CEO, he said, he said, I have lots
of ideas, which was true, and he said most of
them are terrible. Every now and again, I have one
that's half good, and you guys managed to take it
and turn it into something that's really good. And I
(15:20):
thought that was a wonderful way of capturing exactly what
you said, which is you can build on things. And
David Lynch, the film director, has this wonderful line. He said,
you know, an idea is like a fish. You can't
make a fish. You can only catch a fish. And
part of what makes for great work in the end
is catching ideas and then figuring out how you can
(15:40):
make them into something brilliant.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
That's fucking amazing. I love that.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Well, Andrew. I'd love to pick your brain and just
get your thoughts on if you were to take a
step back, being the legend that you are, what's the
campaign or the piece of work that you feel most
proud of.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
So I could I give the stock answer to this question,
which is our workers like my children, I love them
all equally and all that kind of stuff. But you
would know, and I would know that that can't possibly
be true. It's nothing like my children. Paul McCartney once
said that he got his greatest thrill when he heard
of Miltman whistling one of his tunes. And I get
(16:23):
my greatest thrill and thrills when I hear people who've
got nothing to do with our business talking about some
work that we've done. That for me is like like
you said, tell me when people talk about getting goosebumps,
but when they're talking to each other, not when they're
talking to me or somebody who works in the business.
(16:45):
That's when I get my greatest thrill. And I remember
being in a pub in London watching the final of
the I think it was the UAFA Cup. It was
one of those big song tournaments, European soccer tournaments, and
I was watching it in a pub. And is still
(17:06):
the case with the silly game that is soccer. It
still only has one fifteen minute break in the middle
of the game for commercials, so in a pub that
means people have been standing around for forty five minutes
watching the game. And it was a very closely fought
game between Manchester Knighted and Barcelona. And then at halftime
(17:26):
generally what happens is people bolt in one of two directions,
either to the bar to get another drink or to
the bathroom to get rid of one. And I remember
standing in this bar and we had produced a commercial
for Guinness called Surfer and the campaign was good Things
Come to those who Wait, and this particular commercial, coming
(17:46):
back to your point about how ideas get caught. When
we pitched for the business, we had this idea good
things come to those who Wait, and we had a
billboard of a guy sitting on a beach with a
surfboard looking out to and it just said good things
comes to those who wait. And a guy called Andy Fennell,
who was then the brand manager on Guinness, said he
(18:08):
said that you could turn that into a good commercial,
and we then did, and we turned it into I
think one of the most remarkable commercials ever made. But
the reason I say it's one of the most remarkable
commercials ever made is in that moment in that pub,
this commercial started and the pub went completely silent, and
(18:30):
everybody who was in it was just staring at the screen.
There was no noise, nobody was pouring and shouting for
a drink, nobody was bolting for the bathroom, and for
sixty seconds, that whole pub was just staring at the screen.
And I've never had a moment like that in my life.
That for me will will always be the moment that
(18:52):
I think I was proud dsted based on the reaction
that I saw live of a piece of work. So
if I had to pick it, that's it.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
I love that story and I love like what made
it so memorable for you is the experience you had
around it.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
But enough about me, I'd like to know what piece
of work you're most proud of Tammy so far. I mean,
bearing in mind, as Ross said, you're only halfway through.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
You know, does mean we how long do we work
till then? If this is only the halfway point? But
uh yeah, I mean I think, of course, looking back
at my career to date and the body of work
that I think I've I've spent the most time and
has had the most impact in the marketplace. You know,
has to be. I spent nearly a decade in you know,
(19:39):
television entertainment, you know, first with CBS and launching CBS
All Asss, which we ultimately rebranded and relaunched as Paramount
Plus and kind of similar to you and in terms
of like being able to experience the work just out
and about. I mean, we've put so much work in
creating this new brand for you know, this new service
(20:01):
that is now you know, a global brand with high
awareness globally, and you know, even to the point where
the company, right Viacom CBS renamed itself to Paramount and
took on the same branding as the streaming service Paramount Plus.
It just lives on, It lives everywhere. Right now. Having
moved on from there, you know, I can just walk
(20:22):
around the street, and I'm hit with it all the
time in terms of, you know, different elements of this
brand or this you know, this style guide or design.
Right like we we launched the brand where we have
this frame called the blue frame around a lot of
the assets of art that kind of harkens back to
the origin of Paramount and the movie theaters and everything.
(20:44):
And every time I walk around and I see the
blue frame, you know, whether it's a digital ad or whatnot,
Like it just makes me smile. And just knowing that
you know, you like created something from scratch that just
like lives on and lives around the world is definitely
a very proud moment.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I always find that the best cmos and the best
agency leaders are the ones who never lose that feeling
of like the wonder and the joy and the exhilaration
of seeing your work out in the world. Like the
minute any of us lose that, I think you should
just leave, leave the industry.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
Or you know, I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
There's like nothing wrong with like geeking out of your
huge Time Square takeover. Like anybody who walks through Times
Square or wherever it walks by anything that they made
and it's just like, yeah, whatever, you should just leave.
You should will get you out. We can exit you
quietly and no one will ever know.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
You don't deserve the to do the work.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
If you if that's you, DM me, I'll get you
out of this industry real fast. I'll help you out,
get you a job somewhere else. But we're here talking
about the stuff that we love the most, that brings
us the most joy and inspiration in our industry, and god,
there's a lot of it. I mean, especially today, there's
so much amazing work out there. It's you get up
and you sort of see new things that you never
(22:08):
even thought to do. I also wonder about the other
side of our industry, and the American Advertising Federation does
a very good job of attacking the problems with new
kinds of solutions, policy, Mosaic Center, the DEE and I
work that's done. I wonder, from your perspectives, if you
could just snap your fingers, what would you change about
(22:30):
our industry? Would you change about marketing and advertising today?
If it was just that easy. I stumped you, motherfuckers.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
You did?
Speaker 6 (22:41):
You did?
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Come on, you complain all the time, just like I
do about shit. You know, you know the problems we
got Demmy.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
I don't know. I feel like this is a legend
question like.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I would, I would, I would change, and I may
not get the words right. But I think we need
to be truly just as I say we're totally committed
and have conviction in the value of great work, I
think we need to be truly committed to outcomes, not approvals.
(23:19):
As an industry. We talk about it, but I don't
think we honestly are enough. And there are too many,
too many instances where collectively clients and agencies, we're spending
time getting approvals rather than rather than optimizing outcomes. And
(23:42):
I feel like we I feel like we use up
a lot of time and compromise a lot of what
is possible in the pursuit, you know, in the pursuit
of grade outcomes because we've we're too approval driven.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Wow, So, Andrew, you've been doing this for quite a while.
I can't even count how.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Many polite for you're an old fought.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I didn't want to say it, but the thing is,
nobody can see you on this podcast. They can only
hear you, and you don't sound old. So I guess
I'm wondering. I'm not going to ask you for your
favorite cmos because you've worked with a lot of them,
you and lou Bars and your team. But Tammy's the
new CMO. I mean, this is her first CMO job.
(24:23):
I mean, if your first CMO job is that you're
the CMO the freaking NBA, that's a pretty damn good
one to land on as a starting place. But what's
your advice, what's your guidance to Tammy as she really
steps into this, like as a new CMO.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I really want to hear the answer to this question.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
Yeah, so I'll answer it based on my observation about
what makes the great cmos that I've been lucky enough
to work for. And I would say, first of all,
be really object and ruthless about building your team, because
(25:04):
that's where a lot of the leverage will set. I
think the second thing I would say is make sure
you put your time where it's going to have the
greatest impact, rather than what might seem to be more
interesting or possibly quotes important. Impact. Impact is everything, and
(25:26):
as a CMO, you have extraordinary power to change things
and or make things happen. And figuring out how to
spend your day, so that you know most of it
is spent having that impact as opposed to kind of
managing an operation. I think is where the great cmos.
(25:49):
And that doesn't mean you have to spend I'm not
begging for you to spend days with your agency, but
there are going to be moments when it's going to
really matter that you are and understanding what those moments
are and really putting yourself into those moments of greatest
impact I think, I think is the key.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
What are those moments, like we're in the process, do
you find you know that impact really making a difference.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
So I'll say, just if we look, because advertising is
one tiny little bit of what you have to do
as a CMO, but it's obviously the bit I'd like
to steal most of your time forth unreasonably and unrealistically.
I actually think that the three most important bits are
(26:34):
making sure that the strategies and the briefings are as
crisp and as clear as you talked about it at the beginning,
and really interrogating them so that they are that That
is fifteen minutes of work that is going to make
a dramatic difference. At the other end, I think the
second thing is to see early ideas and make falst
(27:02):
decisions on those ideas. You know, we all say we're
way way happier with a fast now than a slow maybe,
because if there's a fast know we can do something else.
We can always have another idea, But slow maybe are
the worst. And it's often tough for the people who
work for you, no matter how good they are, it's
(27:22):
often tough for them to make that kind of coll
So when you see earlier ideas saying yep, this is
the one we're going to go with, throw those others
ones away or you know, they're just not going to work.
That I think helps agencies do really good work. And
then the third thing is to trust and make sure
your people trust the artists. And so as you move
(27:48):
into that final phase, as you move into execution and production,
to remember that there's you know, people who make music
are good at making music, and you need to leave
them to make music. And people who do lighting do
lighting because that's all they do, and they kind of
leave them to do their best. People who do casting,
(28:11):
that's what they do. And it just just like remember
to trust the artists and create that kind of discipline
in your team to me, that is how you lend
up with them. You've got to at least a good
chance of getting the most exceptional work, because so much
if you take those three elements crisp strategy, a big idea,
(28:34):
strong idea, and then brilliantly crafted execution, those are the
three magic ingredients in the difference between exceptional and good.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Love that, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Wow, I love that too. So we're going to wrap
it up here. The last question I have for you
both is, look, Tammy. I know we joke like this
is the halfway mark. That's not my That's not what
I say. This is what people say about the halbch.
I mean you have to be under forty to get
it forty or under to be inducted. So I guess
(29:08):
that means you're work until you're eighty. I don't know
what that means, but.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
That was my question earlier, that you didn't start work
at zero, not even you started work at zero.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So she's done at sixty maybe, I don't know if
something around that you got you got some time, Tammy,
and I feel like you're entering this phase of your
career just someone who's watched you grow in this industry
and was very psyched when you got this job. I
think that you know your best work is still ahead
of you, like, and I mean that in like the
best way. I'm really excited to see what you're gonna do.
(29:39):
Your campaign you just launched for the new season is extraordinary,
and you're doing this, I would say. Also, people remind
people all around the world. So I guess Andrew, you
still got a few years left yourself. Man, Like, you're
not done. And I know, having seen you the other
week at the Advertising Hall of Fame voting, which is
(30:00):
another crazy thing that the af does, you're in pretty
damn good shape, my friends, So I think you've got
some time too. What do you both want to achieve
before you ride off into the sunset? What are you
trying to make sure you get done? If you have
any idea? I don't, but Tammy, how about you?
Speaker 4 (30:18):
First? What do you want to achieve with the back
half of your career?
Speaker 7 (30:22):
You know, when I think, when I look back and
sort of like, what kind of impact do you want
to have on the industry in the community, I think
it's like I really want to look back and say, Wow,
I helped to kind of find and develop talent and.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Grow, you know, help grow the next generation of kind
of badass marketers that are out there. And I did
you know, I know you mentioned at the top. Have
the opportunity to kind of build a team from scratch
at Paramount Plus, and you know, I had the chance
and the privilege to hire over one hundred and fifty
people turnover over the years. Who knows how many it was.
But I've gotten really good at interviewing people, and many
(31:02):
of those people have gone on to go do amazing
things in the industry. One of the first hires I
had a Paramount Plus is good is over at Peacock
doing amazing things. And another first hire went over to
Disney Plus doing amazing things. And I think I seeded
a lot of the talent at other streamers from my team,
which makes me happy, and it makes me happy for them,
(31:22):
and I'm looking forward to seeing, you know, where they grow.
And I don't know, That's what I'm just looking forward
to is looking out and then being able to look
back and saying, who are the incredible people I got
to work with and where are they now.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
I don't have anything nearly as worthy as Tammy, I
tell you what I'm excited about. I tell you what
I'm excited about. First of all, as you Ross said,
you know, if I ever get to the point where
I just don't care about the work, if I haven't
already taken myself out, somebody should, you know, take me
behind the shard and with me. But but if that
(32:01):
ever happens, that's a sign to get out. The reason
I want to stay is because if I look over
the time that I've been in the business, we're just
heading the third most important thing, and as far as
the creative side of the business goes, I think probably
the most important thing, which is the big steps in
(32:24):
my view, were you know, the arrival of the Internet
cued the introduction of smartphones changed everything again. And what
I see over the next three years is the profound
opportunity that AI is going to create for creative agencies
(32:49):
and creative businesses. And I would like to see that
not through, but i'd like to see that potential realized.
Everybody is excited about, everybody's talking about it, all of you,
all of which is to be expected. But for me,
as interesting as the efficiency story is, as interesting as
(33:12):
the story about how much we'll be able to create,
is The magic in it for me is the way
we're going to be able to close the gap, close
the gap of time, and close the gap of money,
and in some cases close the gap of what is
possible and what is not between having an idea and
bringing it to life. And I don't think there's anything
(33:36):
more exciting for creative people than massively increasing the chances
of you being able to make something to make it
as opposed to just having an idea.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
I couldn't agree more. I think that's brilliant, and.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
I want to see that realized. I want the work
that we do and the impact that it has on
consumers and on our client's business, I want I want
to see that realized me too.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I think that the only thing more exciting than that
is who is going to win the NBA Championship this year.
And to wrap this episode up, this has been a
fantastic episode. You're both going to tell us all who
you believe will win the NBA Championship, and Tammy is
(34:23):
not going to be able to answer.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
This is the way she has to say, I love
all those teams like my children.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Yeah, thirty teams equally, all thirty teams equally.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
And Andrew, who's going to win?
Speaker 6 (34:36):
Well, you see, I'm gonna I'm gonna be controversial. I'm
going to say Lebron is going to win it. I'm
just not sure which team you'll be playing with by then.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Oh well, first of all, that's a good take.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
But I think it's funny that you picked the oldest
player in THEBA. I think that says more about you
than about him. And I will give you the correct answer,
which is that the Brooklyn Nets will win the NBA Championship.
I think we all and acknowledge that as the truth.
And I with that and with the Brooklyn Nets hoisting
that trophy at the end of the year, I do
(35:08):
want to thank you both. This is an extraordinary and
super inspiring episode full of great wisdom from you both.
So Tammy and Andrew, thanks for joining future Legends of
advertising and I look forward to seeing you both soon.
And Tammy, I can't wait for you to hoist your
trophy as you are inducted into the Hall of Achievement
on the sixteenth of November in New York City.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
Thank you, Thanks Rols, thank you, Tammy. Enjoy that night.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, well that does it for this episode of the
Future Legends of Advertising podcast on iHeart.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I'm Ross Martin.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And I'm Hailey Romer and thank you for listening. We'll
be back with another episode before you know it. And
for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go through
AAF dot org.
Hello, and welcome to season two of the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and
coming stars in advertising as well as the biggest legends
in the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're your hosts, Hailey Romer and Ross Martin.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Now let's meet the legends.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
When we were getting ready for season two of the
Future Legends of Advertising podcast on iHeart, my co host
Hailey Romer and I had a significant battle over who
was going to host which episodes and clearly I won
because I'm the one who gets to host the episode
with Tammy Hanaut and Andrew Robertson. So that is the
(01:02):
episode you have tuned into today. Welcome to the show.
I am going to bring out our first guest, which
is Tammy Hanault, the chief marketing officer of the National
Basketball Association. And before she comes out here and joins us,
just a word or two about this awesome human. She
is being inducted into the twenty twenty three Advertising Hall
(01:23):
of Achievement on November sixteenth. She is part of a
class of seven, the most diverse class in the history
of the Hall of Achievement, and she was a no brainer.
I mean, this was somebody who when we were voting,
it was just obvious. From as soon as her name
got mentioned in the room and she was nominated, it
was like, well, duh, like she's getting in here, and
(01:44):
there's lots of reasons why.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
And you're going to hear about that today as you
get to know her.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Prior to joining the NBA, which she did in twenty
twenty two November, she was the most recently the senior
vice president of Marketing for streaming at Paramount So Paramount
Plus and managed a huge and let's be clear here,
Paramount Plus is a huge success, and she's one of
the biggest reasons why. Before that, managing director of consumer
(02:09):
Marketing for digital products at none other than The New
York Times, where she led acquisition and retention for the
publication and its massive subscription business and DTC business. So
I am really happy to welcome my friend Tammy to
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Welcome.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Thank you so much for that warm welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, Tammy, I guess my first question is do you
have any idea what you're in for at the Hall
of Achievement ceremony.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I have a little idea. I've watched a lot of videos,
so I know have to bring it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You do have to bring it. So there is like
it's a very personal award. It's a unique achievement in
that I know you're going to get up there and
you're going to thank your team and all the people
that you've worked with at the New York Times and
at Paramount and at the NBA. But this is a
very personal acknowledgment of your achievements as a leader and
an executive in marketing and advertising, and so it becomes
(03:02):
very intimate and just very meaningful to everybody who gets
up on that stage. And so I'm excited for you
to feel that and to really be seen in this
way by the whole industry that night.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
I'm really excited too, and so so tremendously grateful for
you know, the support and the recognition. And yeah, definitely
feels like when you're describing the person that you just describe,
it doesn't sound like you're describing me. It's like, who's
that person? You know, It's like unreal.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
When we had Chris Paul obviously NBA superstar Chris Paul
on episode one, he said the same thing. He said
when he got the call, He's like, how me, how me?
How did I get this? And I get it because
he's he was a little bit comparing himself to other
NBA stars who have been huge brand advocates, like Shaquille O'Neal,
who's done like a lot. But I told him, I said,
(03:53):
you know what, like somebody had to win it from
the NBA, and it looks like it's you and Tammy.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And he was very happy that you got it.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
He's very happy that he got I told Chris Paul,
he now has something that his backcourt mate on the
Warriors doesn't have.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
So when he.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Gets on the court with Steph Curry, Steph Curry may
have all these championships and MVPs, but he doesn't have
an induction into the Advertising Hall achievement and you do.
So this episode is going to be really interesting because
we're going to in a minute be bringing out a legend,
an icon, someone I've looked up to for a really
long time. Andrew Robertson, who, as you know, the president
and CEO of Bbdo you've never met him?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Right?
Speaker 5 (04:29):
No, Our first time getting together to chat.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, let me bring him out here. So, Andrew Robertson
has been the president and CEO of BBDO Worldwide since
June of two thousand and four. And for the record,
that's when I started working at Paramount. That's a long time.
I haven't worked at Paramount in a long time. I
was there for thirteen years, a long time ago, two
thousand and four. I mean, he's been leading that company
for a long time, and he's worked with a lot
(04:54):
of brands that I think you and I both admire,
AC and T, FedEx, ge HP, Mars, PepsiCo, SAP Visa.
I mean, there's a lot in there. The body of
work is kind of unparalleled. That's why it seems like
every year BBDO is nominated and then usually wins Network
of the Year for Creative I think they've done that
seven or eight times already, the world's most awarded creative
(05:15):
agency network for thirteen years in a row. I could
go on and on. He's a legend. I'm really proud
and glad that he is joining us on this episode
of the podcast. Andrew Robertson, Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Thank you, Ross. It's great to be here. Nice to
meet you, Tammy.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Like wwise, So Andrew, I'm going to start with asking
you a controversial question.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I don't know you've been asked this before.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Why is BBDO so consistently successful as a creative agency
for so long? What is it that happens there that
makes us all look up to you all the time?
Speaker 6 (05:53):
So I think if you start, there's that wonderful phrase
of having the courage of your convictions, and actually I
think if you really have convictions, you don't need that
much courage. And we have an absolute conviction about the
value for our clients of exceptional creative work, and the
(06:17):
value that that creates for them is disproportionate to anything
else they can do. And because we have that as
such a foundational conviction, it is the focus of everything
that we do. And you kind of have to be
an idiot, I think to say it doesn't matter. So
lots of people will say it matters, but I don't
(06:38):
think they have the same conviction. And I think what
we have done our Montrose, you know, is the work.
The work, the work is we have really every single
day on we really focus on that as the thing
that we're here to deliver and that doesn't just affect
big decisions about you know, big talent hires that you
(06:59):
might make or moves you my make. It affects hundreds,
maybe thousands of decisions around the BBDO world every single
day where you have the opportunity to go one way
or another on something as small as an edit. And
I think, I think if you have that conviction and
you mean it and you live it, and it affects
(07:22):
your decision making, it drives your decision making and everything
that you know, from the smallest to the to the
biggest decisions you have to make every day, then you
have a better chance, just a better chance of delivering
some of the exceptional work that delivers exceptional or results
but gets everybody to look up and say, you know,
we'd like a better that. So it's there isn't anything
(07:44):
magical about it. It's a it is a behavior driven
out of a real conviction that we just mean and
live amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So the work, the work, the work, as your mantra
has been in place and something that's sort of like
burned into every marketer's mind about what BBDO stands for
for a long time. And I wonder, Tammy, as you
step into what is now I think your two at
the NBA or you're still maybe technically in.
Speaker 5 (08:11):
Year one that's ten months in.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
You're ten months in.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
What's your approach to getting great creative work out of
your teams now at the NBA as you launch this
new season? How do you inspire the best work from
your agencies and your internal teams?
Speaker 5 (08:28):
Yeah, I think it's like for me, it's been aligning
up front and being crystal clear of what you want
to get out of the work, Like what's the messaging,
who are you trying to speak to? And most importantly,
what do you want people to feel? And I think
as much as you can articulate that, And so that's
where I like to spend the most of my time,
(08:49):
is really upfront on the strategic approach, the messaging, strategy,
the tone, you know, all of those elements that are
ultimately going to make the work strong. And then as
we're going through like reviewing concepts, making decisions around which
direction to go, always going back to that document and
(09:10):
making sure like did we hit the mark on our
goals on everything we wanted to actually deliver on? Because
I think sometimes you can get really excited about some
creative concept or some idea that comes out of the field,
but then when you really take a minute with it
and you ladder it back to those initial priorities, it
might be a great fun idea, but it actually doesn't
deliver on what you need it to do. And so
(09:32):
for me, it's the alignment upfront is really critical.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
I absolutely love the fact that you focused on how
you want it to make people feel, because the data
is so compelling on the connection between emotional power and
effect It is crystal clear that is the thing that
(09:57):
drives behavior more than anything else. And I think that
all too often, you know, in an attempt to be
more analytical and scientific about these things, people focus a
lot on, you know, what the messages that has to
be delivered and what support there is for that, whereas
really you should start with what is the emotion that
(10:19):
we want to create, how do we want people to feel?
Then what message do we want them to understand in
that order, because that is what drives effectiveness more than
anything else, and all too often it's not part of
that original thinking. It's something which we may or may
not get round to at the end. And then actually
(10:40):
the second thing is is anybody going to notice, because
if they don't, nothing else matters. And yet so often
you'll see people starting with you know, is it delivering
the desired message? Well, that's a good question, but it's
the third most important.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Yeah, I completely agree, like making sure that at the
end of the day. And that's why I think making
people feel something is so important, because we all know
that people remember the things that they experience and feel
more than anything else. And so for me, the best
compliment I get from someone who's seen a campaign that
put in a market is tammy. That was that was awesome.
(11:16):
It made the hair, you know, rise up on my arms,
and you know, it gave me chills. Like that's the
type of response that I want people to take away
from it.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You both have worked on the agency and client side
for years, and I wonder a lot of the questions
we get asked and we talk about on this podcast
are really about the relationship between client and agency.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
I wonder if you.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Could both talk about how do you get the best
work out of your agency and how do you build
the healthy, most productive, I guess, magical relationship with your client.
In your case, Andrew, you've got clients who have been
with you for decades and some of the longest lasting,
most prolific relationships. And you must have a bunch of
(11:59):
that figured out because it's got to your I know
it's really hard, but somehow you've managed to build these
relationships with cmos and business leaders who really trust you,
and that allows you to it looks like, take great
risks on their behalf and really win in ways that
others haven't and then tammy for you, you're really at the
halfway mark of your career. That's what the Advertising Hall
(12:20):
of Achievement induction really signifies. And so I guess some
of that is still developing for you, and I'm wondering
how you think about your relationship with your agency roster
and how to make that successful.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
One of we have eleven characteristics that define the best
behaviors in BBDO, and we use them to define our
culture when somebody says, what's your culture? These are the
eleven things that we talk about. One of them is
their clients love them, not like, not respect, but love.
(12:55):
And I believe that if you want to really love
this business the way I do, you have to love
your clients. You have to love them, and if you
love them, they will love you back, and it's a
it is a choice that you make. It's not a
screen that you swipe. It's a choice you make. And
(13:17):
that means you have to love their business. You have
to care about their business. It has to matter to
you as much as it does to your client, and
you have to care about them as individuals. And I
think if you do that, if you do that, then
you have a relationship that is built on or you know,
on real trust. And that to me is you know,
(13:39):
that's always the thing I have felt like I've always
wanted to do, but I've encouraged everybody I work with
to have that mindset love your client.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
I love that. From my perspective, I feel like the
agency relationships that have been most successful are the ones
that feel like a true partnership, where you know the
teams are are working so well together that it feels
like a single team, right, and you almost forget who's
on the agency side or who's you know, on the
(14:09):
client side, and it really just feels like, you know,
the idea could come from anywhere. I mean, I've been
part of campaigns of course, where most of the time
the amazing concept and idea comes from the agency and
then we work together and partner right in terms of
honing it in and making sure we get all of
the nuances and details and the shots right or whatever
(14:31):
it might be. But sometimes there's been like the idea
that would come from my team, right, and then agency
will grab it and make an amazing script around it
that we could never necessarily potentially do on our own right.
But like the negative of the idea came from the team,
and you just build on it and build on the
work together to make it better. I feel like that's
(14:53):
been the best type of agency relationships that I've seen.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Yeah, I think it's funny you say that. A FML
who was our ge client for a long time when
he was CEO, he said, he said, I have lots
of ideas, which was true, and he said most of
them are terrible. Every now and again, I have one
that's half good, and you guys managed to take it
and turn it into something that's really good. And I
(15:20):
thought that was a wonderful way of capturing exactly what
you said, which is you can build on things. And
David Lynch, the film director, has this wonderful line. He said,
you know, an idea is like a fish. You can't
make a fish. You can only catch a fish. And
part of what makes for great work in the end
is catching ideas and then figuring out how you can
(15:40):
make them into something brilliant.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
That's fucking amazing. I love that.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Well, Andrew. I'd love to pick your brain and just
get your thoughts on if you were to take a
step back, being the legend that you are, what's the
campaign or the piece of work that you feel most
proud of.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
So I could I give the stock answer to this question,
which is our workers like my children, I love them
all equally and all that kind of stuff. But you
would know, and I would know that that can't possibly
be true. It's nothing like my children. Paul McCartney once
said that he got his greatest thrill when he heard
of Miltman whistling one of his tunes. And I get
(16:23):
my greatest thrill and thrills when I hear people who've
got nothing to do with our business talking about some
work that we've done. That for me is like like
you said, tell me when people talk about getting goosebumps,
but when they're talking to each other, not when they're
talking to me or somebody who works in the business.
(16:45):
That's when I get my greatest thrill. And I remember
being in a pub in London watching the final of
the I think it was the UAFA Cup. It was
one of those big song tournaments, European soccer tournaments, and
I was watching it in a pub. And is still
(17:06):
the case with the silly game that is soccer. It
still only has one fifteen minute break in the middle
of the game for commercials, so in a pub that
means people have been standing around for forty five minutes
watching the game. And it was a very closely fought
game between Manchester Knighted and Barcelona. And then at halftime
(17:26):
generally what happens is people bolt in one of two directions,
either to the bar to get another drink or to
the bathroom to get rid of one. And I remember
standing in this bar and we had produced a commercial
for Guinness called Surfer and the campaign was good Things
Come to those who Wait, and this particular commercial, coming
(17:46):
back to your point about how ideas get caught. When
we pitched for the business, we had this idea good
things come to those who Wait, and we had a
billboard of a guy sitting on a beach with a
surfboard looking out to and it just said good things
comes to those who wait. And a guy called Andy Fennell,
who was then the brand manager on Guinness, said he
(18:08):
said that you could turn that into a good commercial,
and we then did, and we turned it into I
think one of the most remarkable commercials ever made. But
the reason I say it's one of the most remarkable
commercials ever made is in that moment in that pub,
this commercial started and the pub went completely silent, and
(18:30):
everybody who was in it was just staring at the screen.
There was no noise, nobody was pouring and shouting for
a drink, nobody was bolting for the bathroom, and for
sixty seconds, that whole pub was just staring at the screen.
And I've never had a moment like that in my life.
That for me will will always be the moment that
(18:52):
I think I was proud dsted based on the reaction
that I saw live of a piece of work. So
if I had to pick it, that's it.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
I love that story and I love like what made
it so memorable for you is the experience you had
around it.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
But enough about me, I'd like to know what piece
of work you're most proud of Tammy so far. I mean,
bearing in mind, as Ross said, you're only halfway through.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
You know, does mean we how long do we work
till then? If this is only the halfway point? But
uh yeah, I mean I think, of course, looking back
at my career to date and the body of work
that I think I've I've spent the most time and
has had the most impact in the marketplace. You know,
has to be. I spent nearly a decade in you know,
(19:39):
television entertainment, you know, first with CBS and launching CBS
All Asss, which we ultimately rebranded and relaunched as Paramount
Plus and kind of similar to you and in terms
of like being able to experience the work just out
and about. I mean, we've put so much work in
creating this new brand for you know, this new service
(20:01):
that is now you know, a global brand with high
awareness globally, and you know, even to the point where
the company, right Viacom CBS renamed itself to Paramount and
took on the same branding as the streaming service Paramount Plus.
It just lives on, It lives everywhere. Right now. Having
moved on from there, you know, I can just walk
(20:22):
around the street, and I'm hit with it all the
time in terms of, you know, different elements of this
brand or this you know, this style guide or design.
Right like we we launched the brand where we have
this frame called the blue frame around a lot of
the assets of art that kind of harkens back to
the origin of Paramount and the movie theaters and everything.
(20:44):
And every time I walk around and I see the
blue frame, you know, whether it's a digital ad or whatnot,
Like it just makes me smile. And just knowing that
you know, you like created something from scratch that just
like lives on and lives around the world is definitely
a very proud moment.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I always find that the best cmos and the best
agency leaders are the ones who never lose that feeling
of like the wonder and the joy and the exhilaration
of seeing your work out in the world. Like the
minute any of us lose that, I think you should
just leave, leave the industry.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
Or you know, I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
There's like nothing wrong with like geeking out of your
huge Time Square takeover. Like anybody who walks through Times
Square or wherever it walks by anything that they made
and it's just like, yeah, whatever, you should just leave.
You should will get you out. We can exit you
quietly and no one will ever know.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
You don't deserve the to do the work.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
If you if that's you, DM me, I'll get you
out of this industry real fast. I'll help you out,
get you a job somewhere else. But we're here talking
about the stuff that we love the most, that brings
us the most joy and inspiration in our industry, and god,
there's a lot of it. I mean, especially today, there's
so much amazing work out there. It's you get up
and you sort of see new things that you never
(22:08):
even thought to do. I also wonder about the other
side of our industry, and the American Advertising Federation does
a very good job of attacking the problems with new
kinds of solutions, policy, Mosaic Center, the DEE and I
work that's done. I wonder, from your perspectives, if you
could just snap your fingers, what would you change about
(22:30):
our industry? Would you change about marketing and advertising today?
If it was just that easy. I stumped you, motherfuckers.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
You did?
Speaker 6 (22:41):
You did?
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Come on, you complain all the time, just like I
do about shit. You know, you know the problems we
got Demmy.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
I don't know. I feel like this is a legend
question like.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
I would, I would, I would change, and I may
not get the words right. But I think we need
to be truly just as I say we're totally committed
and have conviction in the value of great work, I
think we need to be truly committed to outcomes, not approvals.
(23:19):
As an industry. We talk about it, but I don't
think we honestly are enough. And there are too many,
too many instances where collectively clients and agencies, we're spending
time getting approvals rather than rather than optimizing outcomes. And
(23:42):
I feel like we I feel like we use up
a lot of time and compromise a lot of what
is possible in the pursuit, you know, in the pursuit
of grade outcomes because we've we're too approval driven.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Wow, So, Andrew, you've been doing this for quite a while.
I can't even count how.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Many polite for you're an old fought.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I didn't want to say it, but the thing is,
nobody can see you on this podcast. They can only
hear you, and you don't sound old. So I guess
I'm wondering. I'm not going to ask you for your
favorite cmos because you've worked with a lot of them,
you and lou Bars and your team. But Tammy's the
new CMO. I mean, this is her first CMO job.
(24:23):
I mean, if your first CMO job is that you're
the CMO the freaking NBA, that's a pretty damn good
one to land on as a starting place. But what's
your advice, what's your guidance to Tammy as she really
steps into this, like as a new CMO.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I really want to hear the answer to this question.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
Yeah, so I'll answer it based on my observation about
what makes the great cmos that I've been lucky enough
to work for. And I would say, first of all,
be really object and ruthless about building your team, because
(25:04):
that's where a lot of the leverage will set. I
think the second thing I would say is make sure
you put your time where it's going to have the
greatest impact, rather than what might seem to be more
interesting or possibly quotes important. Impact. Impact is everything, and
(25:26):
as a CMO, you have extraordinary power to change things
and or make things happen. And figuring out how to
spend your day, so that you know most of it
is spent having that impact as opposed to kind of
managing an operation. I think is where the great cmos.
(25:49):
And that doesn't mean you have to spend I'm not
begging for you to spend days with your agency, but
there are going to be moments when it's going to
really matter that you are and understanding what those moments
are and really putting yourself into those moments of greatest
impact I think, I think is the key.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
What are those moments, like we're in the process, do
you find you know that impact really making a difference.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
So I'll say, just if we look, because advertising is
one tiny little bit of what you have to do
as a CMO, but it's obviously the bit I'd like
to steal most of your time forth unreasonably and unrealistically.
I actually think that the three most important bits are
(26:34):
making sure that the strategies and the briefings are as
crisp and as clear as you talked about it at the beginning,
and really interrogating them so that they are that That
is fifteen minutes of work that is going to make
a dramatic difference. At the other end, I think the
second thing is to see early ideas and make falst
(27:02):
decisions on those ideas. You know, we all say we're
way way happier with a fast now than a slow maybe,
because if there's a fast know we can do something else.
We can always have another idea, But slow maybe are
the worst. And it's often tough for the people who
work for you, no matter how good they are, it's
(27:22):
often tough for them to make that kind of coll
So when you see earlier ideas saying yep, this is
the one we're going to go with, throw those others
ones away or you know, they're just not going to work.
That I think helps agencies do really good work. And
then the third thing is to trust and make sure
your people trust the artists. And so as you move
(27:48):
into that final phase, as you move into execution and production,
to remember that there's you know, people who make music
are good at making music, and you need to leave
them to make music. And people who do lighting do
lighting because that's all they do, and they kind of
leave them to do their best. People who do casting,
(28:11):
that's what they do. And it just just like remember
to trust the artists and create that kind of discipline
in your team to me, that is how you lend
up with them. You've got to at least a good
chance of getting the most exceptional work, because so much
if you take those three elements crisp strategy, a big idea,
(28:34):
strong idea, and then brilliantly crafted execution, those are the
three magic ingredients in the difference between exceptional and good.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Love that, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Wow, I love that too. So we're going to wrap
it up here. The last question I have for you
both is, look, Tammy. I know we joke like this
is the halfway mark. That's not my That's not what
I say. This is what people say about the halbch.
I mean you have to be under forty to get
it forty or under to be inducted. So I guess
(29:08):
that means you're work until you're eighty. I don't know
what that means, but.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
That was my question earlier, that you didn't start work
at zero, not even you started work at zero.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So she's done at sixty maybe, I don't know if
something around that you got you got some time, Tammy,
and I feel like you're entering this phase of your
career just someone who's watched you grow in this industry
and was very psyched when you got this job. I
think that you know your best work is still ahead
of you, like, and I mean that in like the
best way. I'm really excited to see what you're gonna do.
(29:39):
Your campaign you just launched for the new season is extraordinary,
and you're doing this, I would say. Also, people remind
people all around the world. So I guess Andrew, you
still got a few years left yourself. Man, Like, you're
not done. And I know, having seen you the other
week at the Advertising Hall of Fame voting, which is
(30:00):
another crazy thing that the af does, you're in pretty
damn good shape, my friends, So I think you've got
some time too. What do you both want to achieve
before you ride off into the sunset? What are you
trying to make sure you get done? If you have
any idea? I don't, but Tammy, how about you?
Speaker 4 (30:18):
First? What do you want to achieve with the back
half of your career?
Speaker 7 (30:22):
You know, when I think, when I look back and
sort of like, what kind of impact do you want
to have on the industry in the community, I think
it's like I really want to look back and say, Wow,
I helped to kind of find and develop talent and.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Grow, you know, help grow the next generation of kind
of badass marketers that are out there. And I did
you know, I know you mentioned at the top. Have
the opportunity to kind of build a team from scratch
at Paramount Plus, and you know, I had the chance
and the privilege to hire over one hundred and fifty
people turnover over the years. Who knows how many it was.
But I've gotten really good at interviewing people, and many
(31:02):
of those people have gone on to go do amazing
things in the industry. One of the first hires I
had a Paramount Plus is good is over at Peacock
doing amazing things. And another first hire went over to
Disney Plus doing amazing things. And I think I seeded
a lot of the talent at other streamers from my team,
which makes me happy, and it makes me happy for them,
(31:22):
and I'm looking forward to seeing, you know, where they grow.
And I don't know, That's what I'm just looking forward
to is looking out and then being able to look
back and saying, who are the incredible people I got
to work with and where are they now.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
I don't have anything nearly as worthy as Tammy, I
tell you what I'm excited about. I tell you what
I'm excited about. First of all, as you Ross said,
you know, if I ever get to the point where
I just don't care about the work, if I haven't
already taken myself out, somebody should, you know, take me
behind the shard and with me. But but if that
(32:01):
ever happens, that's a sign to get out. The reason
I want to stay is because if I look over
the time that I've been in the business, we're just
heading the third most important thing, and as far as
the creative side of the business goes, I think probably
the most important thing, which is the big steps in
(32:24):
my view, were you know, the arrival of the Internet
cued the introduction of smartphones changed everything again. And what
I see over the next three years is the profound
opportunity that AI is going to create for creative agencies
(32:49):
and creative businesses. And I would like to see that
not through, but i'd like to see that potential realized.
Everybody is excited about, everybody's talking about it, all of you,
all of which is to be expected. But for me,
as interesting as the efficiency story is, as interesting as
(33:12):
the story about how much we'll be able to create,
is The magic in it for me is the way
we're going to be able to close the gap, close
the gap of time, and close the gap of money,
and in some cases close the gap of what is
possible and what is not between having an idea and
bringing it to life. And I don't think there's anything
(33:36):
more exciting for creative people than massively increasing the chances
of you being able to make something to make it
as opposed to just having an idea.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
I couldn't agree more. I think that's brilliant, and.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
I want to see that realized. I want the work
that we do and the impact that it has on
consumers and on our client's business, I want I want
to see that realized me too.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I think that the only thing more exciting than that
is who is going to win the NBA Championship this year.
And to wrap this episode up, this has been a
fantastic episode. You're both going to tell us all who
you believe will win the NBA Championship, and Tammy is
(34:23):
not going to be able to answer.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
This is the way she has to say, I love
all those teams like my children.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Yeah, thirty teams equally, all thirty teams equally.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
And Andrew, who's going to win?
Speaker 6 (34:36):
Well, you see, I'm gonna I'm gonna be controversial. I'm
going to say Lebron is going to win it. I'm
just not sure which team you'll be playing with by then.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Oh well, first of all, that's a good take.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
But I think it's funny that you picked the oldest
player in THEBA. I think that says more about you
than about him. And I will give you the correct answer,
which is that the Brooklyn Nets will win the NBA Championship.
I think we all and acknowledge that as the truth.
And I with that and with the Brooklyn Nets hoisting
that trophy at the end of the year, I do
(35:08):
want to thank you both. This is an extraordinary and
super inspiring episode full of great wisdom from you both.
So Tammy and Andrew, thanks for joining future Legends of
advertising and I look forward to seeing you both soon.
And Tammy, I can't wait for you to hoist your
trophy as you are inducted into the Hall of Achievement
on the sixteenth of November in New York City.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
Thank you, Thanks Rols, thank you, Tammy. Enjoy that night.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, well that does it for this episode of the
Future Legends of Advertising podcast on iHeart.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
I'm Ross Martin.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And I'm Hailey Romer and thank you for listening. We'll
be back with another episode before you know it. And
for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go through
AAF dot org.
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