December 28, 2022 • 42 mins
Listen to learn a lot from Antonio Lucio and Stephanie Nadi Olson, two transformational leaders driving positive change everywhere they go at every level. This is an incredibly smart and inspirational conversation between two visionaries who have leveraged their personal experiences and wisdom to better the industry, their own lives and most importantly, the lives of all of the individuals they have touched.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
After you begin to push people actually appear. It's really
interesting that just focusing on it and then making the
effort to actually identifying and developing that went is a
big deal. I think that's so important. To encourage people
to throw their hat in the ring. We're constantly having
to encourage people, women, people of color, kind of anybody
(00:28):
that's from a marginalized group to say, hey, throw your
hat in the ring, like other people are doing it,
your your peers are doing it, and you belong in
this group too. Hello and welcome to the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast, featuring newly inducted members of the American
Advertising Federations Hall of Achievement and those in the Hall
(00:51):
of Fame. In this series, will compare notes, gain insights,
and explore the future of the advertising industry through never
before heard conversations between the who are shaping it. You'll
meet industry icons like Bosma st John, Daisy Exposita, Uilla,
Deborah Wall, and future ones, including leaders from the most
impactful brands, agencies, and media platforms in the world. We're
(01:14):
your host, Hailey Romer and Ross Martin. Now let's meet
the legends, all right, So, Haley, I am going to
be the one to introduce Maestrol and Antonio Lucio, who, uh,
we could spend the whole this is this is the
(01:34):
problem with the Hall of Famers, the legends that we're introducing,
is you could take the whole episode to introduce them,
and then it would be like the Antonio Show. But like,
he doesn't want that. He's already shaking his head and
he's like, don't keep it short, so I will. He
needs no introduction. The former chief marketing officer for Facebook,
the first one they ever had, the former chief marketing
(01:56):
officer of HP, the former chief marketing officer of Visa
before that, PepsiCo. And I think that you don't define
business leader like Antonio through titles like that, even though
they are super impressive. He's also not someone that anybody
defines by the work itself, which is legendary. But it's
(02:19):
the man. It is the human being, the father, the husband,
the friend, and the transformational leader that he is that
makes Antonio so inspiring. And we're gonna hear from him shortly,
but just just so everyone knows, we're breaking some news here.
If you haven't heard, should be surprised. To no one.
It was like the biggest duh of all time, that
(02:40):
Antonio Lucio is going to be inducted into the Advertising
Hall of Fame class of two thousand twenty three. Please
welcome to this podcast Everybody's favorite Antonio Lucio. Well, thank
you very much, Rush for that wonderful intellection. Hall of
Fame is what happens when when when you're old and
(03:02):
people want you to move away from the markets. And
I am gladly doing so as we speak. But I'm
I'm I'm actually deeply honored. Bye bye, bye bye this
by this a work. I don't know if I agree
that anybody wants you to move away from anything. Antonio,
your name comes up in almost every conversation. As I
just spoke with Antonio, Antonio advised me on this. Antonio
(03:24):
said that, um so I can say confidently on behalf
of the world, nobody wants you to go anywhere. But
I am excited, really really excited right now to introduce
Stephanie Natty. Often if you don't know Stephanie, you surely
know her work or someone on her team. Stephanie is
the epitome of a visionary and I'm going to prove
(03:47):
that to you right Now, in case you're not familiar
with with what Stephanie's done, just before the pandemic, Stephanie
started we Are Rosie. She's the founder and CEO of
we Are Rosie, which is the flexible career platform for
those in our industry and advertising and marketing for professionals
in all seasons of their career. Stephanie worked in advertising previously,
(04:09):
and in eighteen she decided to embrace the idea of
remote work, way before the pandemic happened and everybody was
doing this now. What I love about Stephanie's story is
not only has she created a mechanism for people to
do the thing they love in the way that works
for them, but she did it coming out of the
(04:30):
life experience that she had being the daughter of a refugee,
which has driven her affinity and advocacy for marginalized groups
and her desire really to create a better way of
doing business just by focusing on the people who are
actually doing the work. I love that Stephanie has had
no shortage of accomplishments of her own. During her advertising career,
she worked with major brands like Microsoft and a O
(04:52):
l Um, as well as startups Stephanie saw the industry
from every angle and understood that there as an opportunity
to truly transform the way that we work, and so
four years later we are Rosie works with more than
twenty five Fortune five brands, as well as six major
advertising holding companies. In fact, if you're listening, your company
(05:13):
probably does some work with Stephanie or someone on our team.
And Stephanie has also been named this year as e
Wise Entrepreneur of the Year in the Southeast Region, one
of Atlanta Business chronicles most admired CEOs, and one of
Atlanta Magazines two thousand twenty two Women making a Mark.
Stephanie was named Adage Visionary of the Year in twenty twenty,
(05:35):
has been recognized by ad Week as the Creative one
hundred was named among World Changing Women. The list goes
on and on. Stephanie, you really are a visionary. You're
changing so much of what's happening. It's a pleasure to
have you here. Thank you for joining us. Oh Hayley,
thank you for that generous welcome. That is so kind
of you. I'm so happy to be here and in
(05:56):
such great company today. So, Stephanie in a Tonio, why
do you think we would pair the two of you.
We could have paired you with anybody. You're both like
absolutely outstanding. Anybody would want to be on the podcast
with either of you. But we did put you two together.
Like why why you two? Why do you think in
your meeting for the first time, I think here, so
why do you think we put you together? I'll take
(06:18):
a guess of this Ross. I mean, I think hopefully
it's because the universe has destined the two of us
to meet. I think since I started We Are Rosy,
three times a week people were like, have you met Antonio?
Have you talked to Antonio? I'm like, I would love to.
I would love to talk to Antonio. So, UM, maybe
that's part of it. But I think, UM, one of
the things that I had really admire about Antonio and
(06:39):
that I find really relatable is UM a little bit
of this kind of outsider's mentality, you know, like, Um,
Antonio's a one of a handful of Latin cmos that
that I can think of, and coming from an Arabic family,
you know, I don't see myself well represented in the
marketing and advertising world either, and so I really enjoyed
watching the way that he gracefully navigates building his career
(07:03):
and influence while also bringing others along on the journey,
and I hope to do the same in the work
that I'm doing. Yeah, I agree. I think both of
us have share the division for um building a business
through diversity and an inclusion to ensure that the communities
(07:26):
that we served represented the right way, and to do
it in a systematic sort of way, not through uh storytelling,
but through actual, through actual hard work. So I'm I've
been very impressed with the work Um Stephanie has done
and continues to do. So I'm I'm delighted. I'm actually
honored to be sharing the stage with her. You know what,
(07:48):
I want to jump on what you just said, Antonio,
in the sense that you both have an idea for
better ways of working and having a more inclusive workplace,
giving people more of a platform and a voice and
how they come to work. And if I were to
juxtapose your perspectives for just a moment, I don't want
to imply that your perspectives are singular and your view
(08:09):
is singular or comes just from one way, But I
would say, Stephanie, you've been focused on the worker themselves,
and saying how can the workplace be the best place
for the worker? And Antonio being in these huge leadership
positions and being an advisor to so many leaders, you're thinking, Okay,
how do we as leaders help the workplace thrive? So
(08:32):
maybe from your different vantage points, what are the biggest
priorities that you are both seeing right now? And how
are like, where do you see the white space and
the opportunity to continue to improve? Again from both perspectives, Yeah,
I'll jump in on this one. I think we're at
such a crazy moment we're actually talking about this today. Um,
I think we're seeing kind of the dismantling of a
(08:54):
lot of old systems, um, including the way of work
right if you think of that as a system that
was developed over a hundred years ago with you know,
Henry Ford and this Monday through Friday forty hour work week. Um,
we've held onto that even though all this technology has
enabled us to work in different ways. And I think
COVID really pushed a lot of people, a lot of employers,
(09:14):
a lot of organizations to say, like, gosh, is this
still the best way to do it? Right? Do we
still need to be dragging everybody into an office, Um,
can we not give them any flexibility? And I think
we're at this really interesting moment where, UM, things are
kind of falling apart so that they can fall into place,
hopefully in a way that honors the way that people
are living and working today. And that includes everything from
(09:36):
having women in the workforce to having you know, people
that want to participate in the advertising industry that maybe
want to live outside of New York City. UM. And
I think it's just such a cool time for us
to be pushing for change and it's something that I'm
um excited to see companies and organizations and leaders really
think about how they can grow their business through creating
(09:58):
an environment where the talent that's parts fan can drive. Yeah.
I totally agree, definitely. At the at the institutional level,
I think that what the focus needs to be on,
the focus needs to be on the inclusion and needs
to be on the second generation of leaders. I think
companies are doing really well when it comes to the
(10:18):
entry level. When it comes to the pipeline for senior
leadership role, that's the single biggest area of opportunity. That's
where I'm spending most of my time today. UM. And
one of the biggest hurdles that that I have been
(10:40):
approaching with with with some of the companies that are
working with is this notion that, well, there's no no
pipeline for the for the leadership roles at the at
the second at the two levels below below the CMO.
And what's interesting about that observation is every single leader
(11:00):
that I know in all the companies that you mentioned
that I have worked, everyone from Indra and only to
shel Sanberg to men, everyone has had stretched assignments. Stretch assignments,
for definition, are assignments in which you don't have the capability,
but you have potential and someone is betting on your potential.
(11:25):
If you're a woman or person of color, it is
considered a diversity play. If you're not, it's considered a
career development play. And that's sort of frame of mind
needs to be changed across the board because stretch assignment,
by de phoinition means that you're not ready. Whether you're
white or black, or male or female or gay, you
(11:45):
are not ready, but someone is betting on on your potential.
Um that and then we need to do some some
re reframing, particularly among women and people of colors of
three concepts that I'm hammering constantly now, um politics, power,
and network. We have an a negative view of what
(12:11):
politics is. We have a very difficult time with owning
power because of where we come from and and and
sometimes we think that network is not part building network
is not part of the actual of the actual work.
So a lot of the work that we're doing is
reframing that politics is nothing. But first, politics is value neutral,
(12:34):
and it's nothing more than an organization's ability to get
things done within its culture. And if you're a leader,
you have to figure that out. If you're not able
to figure that out, you're not doing your job and
you're not going to advance the agenda, and you're gonna
let actually your people behind. Power is nothing more than
your impact and influence within an organization and the ability
(12:58):
to be recognized as such. And what's interesting is that
when you when when you're given a position, your boss,
your beers, and the people that reported into you are
expecting you to own that power. And once again, if
you don't reframe your mindset to feel comfortable owning that power,
(13:19):
you're not going to be successful. And then the last
pieces network as you go up within the organization that
becomes the job more than your ability to actually uh
do the ar descental side of it. Antonio, I love
um what you're saying about potential, and it resonates so
much with me, Um because a lot of the work
(13:41):
we do it we are Rosy, is about matching people
to opportunity based on potential. So I don't know if
you've heard about this, Santonio should give you the high
level here, but you know we match people two project
based work based on what we call the four piece, right,
which is that our custom algorithmic but also very human
way to connect people to opportunity. UM. One of them's pedigree,
(14:01):
which is resume based you know, information, which is you know,
a record of bias and privilege in a lot of ways.
And the next one is potential, right. And then the
last two our play, which is how do you want
to work and play and passion? What type of work
really lights you up? But potential is one that we
talked to our clients about extensively, right, and it's something
that really captivates their imagination because they've been accustomed to
(14:25):
hiring people based on pedigree, right, and promoting people based
on pedigree and giving them opportunity based on pedigree. But
the challenge with that is that you're giving people additional
opportunity on the heels of potentially a very bias system
that has already given them opportunities. And so giving people
opportunity based on potential allows you to see and and
(14:48):
invite people in that may not always already be in
the room and may not always get those opportunities. And
what we've found that we are Rosie is if somebody
has a high potential score match with this Pacific project,
they will often outperform somebody that's just a high pedigree
match or even you know, the highest pedigree match, because
(15:09):
we see this potential in them. And it's a big
part of our effort to level the playing field and
also surface talent that just isn't getting the access to
opportunity and power and wealth, which kind of recreates that circle. Right.
Once you have the wealth, there's more, you know, access,
opportunity and power coming your way. I'm curious how your
conversations with the leaders that you're working with are going
(15:32):
as you try to get them to reconsider their approach
to doling out opportunity and sharing it with people. Throughout
their organization. First, just to comment on what you just said.
Although people like to say that they're making promotions based
on pat agree, that's actually not true. When you're talking
about the senior senior positions in those corporations, that degree
(15:55):
is one, but it's actually potential and and and and
those and both and both dimensions are always measured. You
get a score for your actual performance during a given year,
and then you get a different score whether you're going
to be able to be promoted within the next for
the next to two particular positions. That that assessment, that
(16:16):
evaluation of potential is completely arvyduary, completely arverydrary and and
and normally all sorts of prejudice and and and issues
go into play with with with those particular assessment and
and it's clearly very important for for companies actually acknowledge that,
so that because if you don't acknowledge that, you're not able,
(16:37):
not not able to begin to change the way the
way in which you in which you behave. Yeah, it's
it is really hard to measure, and you're right, I mean,
it's it's completely subjective in a lot of ways. You know,
it's hard to find something that's truly kind of programmatic
to measure somebody's potential. But we found some success with
(16:59):
having hugh and conversations with people right Like, it cannot
be pulled from a database, but it's about getting to
know people and understanding their drive and a lot of
it is intuitive. Um, do you feel like those decisions
are made with intuition in the highest levels of organization? Sometimes? Sometimes?
Sometimes sometimes No, I mean within the context of the
(17:20):
program that that I run, the Leadership Acceleration Project. Umm,
I have sixteen sixteen companies some other conversations with the
senior leaders is I am not sure whether I can
find eight eight within an entire marketing department a group
of people that that that will have the petty rean
(17:42):
potential to actually participate in this particular program. And what's
interesting is that when when after you begin to push,
people actually appear. When you when you're saying, okay, it's
it's it's it's like you said, it's about potential, then
people appear all of us on and there they all
of the begin to pay attention to them. Yeah, and
(18:03):
all of a sudden they've become part of the of
the succession plans. So it's it's it's really interesting that
just focusing on it, calling it, and then making the
effort to actually identifying and developing that that pvalent is
a big deal. I think that's so important to encourage
(18:23):
people to throw their hat in the ring by calling
out like, we're going to make this decision also based
on potential because we see it every day and the
work that we're doing. Um, you know, an easy one
to throw out is like women will apply for a
project or raise their hand for a project on our
platform when they're a qualified UM for men, it's you know,
(18:45):
somewhere between sixty and qualified. And we're constantly having to
encourage people, women, people of color, kind of anybody that's
from a marginalized group to say, hey, throw your hat
in the ring, like other people are doing it. You're
peers are doing it, and you belong in this group too.
And so I think verbally saying hey, we're looking at
(19:05):
potential as a good signal to people that they can
take what feels like to them as a risk. What
you're saying is is incredibly important. So the people that
participating in in my in the project, I am devoting
three one hour sessions with each one and the amount
of the amount of time, the number of times that
(19:27):
I just have to say it is really important for
the company to understand what you want is is insane.
And like you said, you know, if you're if you're
a man that comes from a certain school, on your
straight and this isn't that you're I mean from the
moment that you're born, you're you're asking for stuff and
(19:48):
you disserve that stuff. Um the rest of us, it's
it's it's it's a bit harder, but it's clearly very
important for the companies in what you're working on for
for them to know where you stand at what you
want and to have them And by the way, you
have to own that. They say, careers are a two
way stream. That means you have to drive um and
(20:11):
every position that you take it's send it's sending a
signal of both capability and intent. And if you're not
careful as to the things that you say yes to
are the things that you say no to, your career
may end up in a corner that you're not able
to recover ever. Again, so that the fact that you
(20:31):
have to have ownership of what you want and people
will not know what they don't know about what you
want is really important that you're very very very specific umuh.
And you deserve to have that those types of conversations
and get that type of feedback that will enable you
to actually get to the next level. Yeah. I have
(20:53):
a little story about this, actually, Antonio, that I share
with people often. I was working for a big tech
company and I've been based Atlanta my entire career, and
I can't even begin to enumerate all the times I've
been bribed and pressured and bullied to move to New York,
right because I've been very ambitious and I've I've laid
that bear. Everybody around me knows, like I've got big
(21:14):
goals and big dreams, and everyone's like, well, then you
need to move to New York. And you know, being
raised in a family um that comes from a refugee background,
like I was raised that you don't leave your family,
like unless you're forcibly removed from your family, you have
to stick together. So for me, leaving Atlanta was a
non option. So that was like the one thing I
just couldn't sacrifice for my career. And I remember I
(21:35):
was asking for promotion at this big tech company, and
I kept getting the move to New York line, and
I just I just kind of like gave up on it, right,
And then I saw a colleague of mine who um,
she said to them, you know, I'll move to New York,
but only temporarily, and you're going to pay for it,
and you're going to move my family there, and you
(21:57):
know you're gonna pay for me to fly back to Atlanta,
uh twice a twice a month. And they did it.
And I remember watching this happen for her and saying,
I didn't even think to ask for that. You know,
that's not a permanent move, it's like an apprenticeship. Like good,
I'll come to New York and soak up everything you
want me to soak up from that office. But I'm
going to come back to Atlanta, where my my heart
(22:19):
is and where my family is. And that was such
a good lesson for me to do exactly what you're saying,
just ask for it. And it's advice now I give
to everybody, like be specific. And what's the worst that
can happen is you end up where you are now.
Best case scenarios, you get everything you've wanted, right, um,
And there's a lot of space in the middle there
for improvement. Incremental improvement in your situation if you'll just
(22:41):
ask and be bold. Yeah, the the other pieces depending
on where you're in your career. The word that I
use is in inventionality. You you you need to be
very specific as to what you're building and and and
and and ensure that everything that you do is that
means going in. If you're in the first half of
your career, it's all about seeking and and and getting
(23:04):
as much experiences as you want so that you know
what what you're good at and what you and what
you like. Second half of your career, you have to
add a significant amount of intentionality. That those conversations with
women and people of color are incredibly surprising. It's like,
what do you mean, because it's almost that we we
tend to take a more passive view as to what's
(23:25):
available for me, and we go and we just pursue
that as supposed to stepping back and say, Okay, I
actually want to be like the subject matter expect of
the world in this and I'm going to build my
career for that. I'm going to be a bit more generalist.
CMO rout if you will and this is what I'm
going to build towards or and I'm actually going to
run a business. But that level of intentionality and and
(23:50):
really really being careful as to how you're building towards
the ends that you are pursuing is really very important.
And we are not having those conversations with that there
people that we're talking about. Yeah, and most of the
time is because of what you say, because they're not
(24:11):
bringing it forth. Yeah, I mean, but so often we're
just happy to be in the room, right, Like we're like, oh,
I don't know how I got into this party, but
I'm happy to be here and I don't want to
get bounced, And so I don't think that, you know,
for so many people that come from marginalized groups, we're
thinking like we're at the we're in the middle of
Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Were like, we need to move
(24:31):
on up to the top where we're like, this is
what this is what I need to thrive, not just
what I need to exist. And I think people like
you and I having conversations out loud is really helpful.
I didn't have a lot of any really role role
models when I was coming up in the industry to
help me with this stuff and I and I was
happy to be in the room. But I'm fortunate that
(24:52):
I had that focus and intentionality kind of naturally, and
I hope to be able to teach others about it.
Totally agree that The other is is that it took
me a very personally, took me a very long time
that there is a there's a system, uh to this madness.
So so for example, and most of the times we
(25:12):
don't we don't even know it. Um. Most of the
successful people that I have been involved with across multiple
levels have four things going for them. They have capability
at two levels, functional and then the leadership capability. Most
of the companies that when I was growing up in
in corporate America, leadership was something that was taught. You
(25:37):
don't have that anymore, but it's so it's it's capability
at those two levels. The second is community, And by
community I mean people outside of your company, because in
many cases, the people that I'm working with, they are
one or two within the company in those rooms, that's
not the community. So to have a community outside of
(25:59):
the company of people that are at your same level,
so that you can share, you know, what you're learning.
You can share your frustrations, you can share am I
going crazy? Because sometimes you companies do that to you.
They make you feel like you're crazy, so that they are.
They add perspective, they give you pointers an importantly, importantly,
(26:22):
they never allow you to feel isolated, which is super important.
The third is mentors, and I separate mentors from sponsors.
Mentors are people that that get to know you deeply
and are going to ask you not just about your work.
They're going to ask you about your work, your life,
the integration between the two, and are the ones that
(26:44):
are going to ask you the very tough questions like
you know, Antonio, maybe have you considered that maybe it's
time for you to move on? Um? And and normally
the people inside the company are not going to ask
you that type of question because for for for I
mean you have a ferruciary responsibility with the company first.
(27:05):
And then the sponsor, which is inside the company pulling
your career, is the person that is going to advocate
for you, is the person that is going to indeed
give you the stress assignment. If you're a white guy,
was straight white guy from the Northeast, those four things
you have it from birth, the community you want to
(27:25):
school with all these people that now are all over
and they become your support group. And mentors were your
uncles and the friends of your father that sat in
the dinner table with you. And this isn't that, and
and and and you're going to get the sponsors. In
my particular case, I was lucky that I was people
invested in my capability and I had sponsors community I
(27:46):
only was able to build when I got involved in
d and I that these people became my mind. And
that's that's the the last twelve years of my career
out of forty um and mentors I also found in
the last fifteen years of my career, and those two
things fundamentally changed my life. Changed my outlook, change the
(28:08):
way that I've felt about my work, and and and
we need that we need to increase the level of
awareness of our people so that they get to build
that from the get go and they don't have to
do the stumbling that that I had to do. Yeah,
Oh my gosh, that speaks to me so deeply. I mean,
(28:30):
I feel like I spent the first ten years of
my career gathering up all of those things, right, like
creating my own network of support and mentors and sponsors
and leadership and all these things. I mean, I think
so many people can relate. I graduated from high school.
I actually went to community college my last year of
high school because I knew I was going to be
(28:51):
on my own to pay for college. So my last
year of high school, I was like, well, how can
I make this as cheap as possible. I went to
state school UM afterwards and worked multiple jobs and then
got dropped into the advertising industry. And the only people
I knew in this industry was the family that I
had nannied for from the time I was fourteen until
I was twenty two, and they helped me the simple
(29:13):
act of kindness of helping me prepare for an interview
in Microsoft's advertising division when I graduated college. It's how
I got the job at Microsoft. It changed the entire
trajectory of my career. And they were really the only
people I knew in corporate right. My parents were not
in this field, you know, my dad is a tailor. UM.
(29:33):
Neither of my parents went to college, and so I
spent the next ten years kind of grabbing every opportunity
I could write. Who were the people that I looked
up to. What could I learn from them? How could
I get more time with them? How could I get
in the room with my skip skip skip level boss,
so I could see what's going on in that room
and I could start to understand what the gap was
that I needed to fill to be in there more permanently. UM.
(29:57):
And then when I started We Are Rosie Antonio, I
started getting thrown into rooms that I never could have
imagined I would be in. I went from prior to
we R Rosie, I was begging, um, you know, media
directors at ad agencies to take a meeting with me.
I was selling a commoditized, you know, ad tech product
that you could buy from thirty different places, and it
(30:19):
was all relationship based, and it was so hard to
get meetings, so everyone was so exhausted. And then I
came up with this idea that resonated with people, and
all of a sudden, I was meeting with the CEOs
of these agencies and I had so much you know,
like what am I doing here? But the thing that
I learned there are two couple of things I learned.
The difference between the people UM that you know or
(30:42):
me ten years ago, and these people that I was
meeting in the C suite was I just felt like
they believed that they belonged there. Like they weren't any
smarter than everyone I had met. They might be more polished,
but they simply just believed that they belonged in that
seat in that room. And that was thing that was
really eye opening for me because my whole life I
(31:03):
assumed that the people in the C suite were some
like superhuman one in a million, people that you know,
only come around every so often and they're spectacular and
you either have it or you don't. And then I'm
now I'm sitting there and I know all these amazing
peers and listen, they're they're phenomenal people. UM. But there's
(31:24):
not this huge gap that I thought there was. You know,
they're not superhuman, they're people, UM, and a lot of
them have worked really hard and like you said, some
of them woke up on third base the day they
were born. UM. But they just all believe that they
belonged there. And I think that that was something that
really propelled me for it. I had to change my
mindset around. I believe that I belonged here to UM.
(31:46):
But it certainly helps to have people along the way
to guide you, you know, because you don't want people,
um spending more time, any more time than necessary, thinking
that they don't belong. So the you agree. That's why
I think the whole, the whole concept of community and
mentors is so important, because what what you're saying. And
I was in again in one of my mentoring sessions
(32:08):
with one particular lady from an amazing company, as he said, well,
I'm I'm I have an amazing education. I have um
in terms of brains, I can I can go to
bed with anyone. I'm I'm lacking social capital. And I said,
what do you mean is that it's not easy for
me like you, Like it wasn't for you. It wasn't
for me either, uh to go into a room and
(32:30):
talk to people about the CEO or or the CMO
or such and such about anything because again having impostor syndrome,
or because we've never done it before. Because the way
that I was raised and the people that I hung
out with and my my parents were all not didn't
know anything about corporations. Um. My father could could not
(32:51):
even pronounce procter and gamble and and and and he
could not understand what marketing was, and he died without
understanding what marketing was. So it I think most of
us are going to die without understanding what marketing. That's
that's that's that's another building that that wh need you
(33:11):
get into. You both have brought up family a few times.
And you know, Stephanie, you were the final honoree of
the evening at a f hall of achievement, and you
spoke so lovingly about your family, um, and what they
sacrificed for you to be able to create We are
Rosie and grow it to this size. I guess I'm
(33:32):
asked for both of you. I know how both indebted
you both feel to your partners and to your children
for allowing you to go do the careers you've done. Um,
can you talk about that commitment that they've made to
you and how it how it makes you feel? You know,
as a leader who you know you you you sacrifice
(33:53):
so much time with your families to build the careers
you're building. Can you both talk about your families and
how you think about integrating family and work. Yeah, um man,
I I'll just start by saying, like I there isn't
a day that goes by that I don't have like
overflowing gratitude for the role that my husband and partner
(34:14):
has played and supporting me as I've chased my dreams.
My kids have both spent more than half of their
lives competing for my attention with this business. The business
is five years old, uh, shortly will be five years old,
and my kids are seven and nine. So the business
has been a big part of our family lives and
it will be something that my children remember right for
the rest of their lives. This time and you know,
(34:37):
I guess potentially unpopular opinion here, I don't really believe
in work life balance. I think it's impossible, Uh, in
certain seasons of your career, certainly, and when I'm pedal
to the metal trying to build a movement and a
new category in a way of work. Uh, there is
no work life balance. U. My hope is every day
(34:58):
that I can find harm any and moments, and that
I can choose moments to be more present, and that
over time, obviously, as the business scales um and we
have some sixty amazing people working here and twenty thousand
people in our community, that I can take some more
steps back, right so that I can find more of
that harmony in the day to day. Um. But it's messy,
(35:20):
you know, Like this is probably my number one stressor
in life, is the guilt I feel about Am I
doing enough for the team that we are Rosie? Am
I doing enough for my daughters? Am I doing enough
for my spouse, who you know is endlessly supportive. Um.
It's hard and it's messy, and I try to talk
about it really plainly because I want people to hear it,
(35:42):
you know, like it can't be all rosy all the time.
And this is something that I've really struggled with. UM.
But I'm really thankful that I've had the support system
because starting this business for me was not like a
nice to have. It was a compulsion, Like I felt
compelled and drawn to this mission to do this work.
And I so fortunate that I've I've never been made
(36:02):
to feel guilty, um by my family. But I carry
it with me as I try to find, you know,
some semblance of balance throughout throughout the days and years. Yeah,
I agree with you. There's no no such things as balance.
You can try to integrate as as much as you can,
and it it's a It's a living, breathing organism that
(36:26):
moves around, sometimes his works, sometimes his family. Sometimes it's you, UM,
and you have to feel okay with um, with with
with all of it. I learned that the hard way. Uh.
It's easier for me to talk about work life integration
now that I'm sixty three and and my daughters are
(36:47):
out of out of out of school. Uh except for
actually the last two um, after I've had a four
year career. But I made every single mistake in the
book I I. I decided to be very traditional about
I is completely separated my work life from my personal life.
And I was doing an international career, which felt that
(37:10):
which which meant that I always felt that I owed
time to one of the aspects of my life because
I had this notional balance. Okay, so it's fifteen hours
here and I'll have to live fifteen hours over there.
I was not integrating my life at all. I was
a house divided, and as as the line said, the
(37:31):
house divided cannot stand them and I I had to
pay a price for that. I got sick, and then
thanks to the endless support of of my family, I
was able to then we build a more integrated um
a more integrated sort of of life. If if you're
(37:52):
not fully aware of it, if you're not talking about it,
if you don't have a support system around it, it
will affect you. We're humans, Uh, it would affect you
one way, one way or the other. So in in
in my particular case, it's a little bit of what
you're doing, Stephany the work became a family project, the
reason why why does that work? And I would share
(38:13):
why um to the point that it became I think
the the sometimes the dinner table evaluation of my work
became more uh tougher than the research that I was
doing globally for for for my particular work. But it
took me a long time to get to UM. Took
(38:33):
me a long time to get to uh, to to
to that what what what? Family has also also done
for me, particularly my wife actually is uh when I
forget to check in on me, she is making sure
that I do. Yeah, And it's it's really important. Mental
business is is that thing and and it's something that
(38:56):
we don't talk about, you know, as an industry as
as as a workforce. And I know for a fact
that the pandemic didn't make things easy and that we're
going to be paying for it for a very long
period of time. It took me a very long time
to actually come to terms with the fact that for
a significant period of my life I was suffering from
(39:17):
depression and I had to deal with it, and I
had to become clean about it, and I had to
talk about it and share with my my family and
with my team what I was going to do about it.
We just need to acknowledge that we're human beings. Um,
we just have to acknowledge that there are many more
things than words that constitute our life, and that we
(39:39):
should be in safe environments where we can share the
stuff so that we can all be a bit more
empathetic with one another. And that has nothing to do
with performance, By the way, you can do that and
be a high performing UH individual and had and had
performing business and be successful as well. Yeah, you both
probably don't realize that, but you're giving so much really
(40:03):
important advice and sharing so much wisdom. And I love
the honesty and vulnerability that you're bringing to this conversation
because I think you know, there's there's totally a world
where we have the two of you here and start
throwing questions at you and you know what the right
answers might be, and you can share them. But I
think nothing is more valuable than sharing your own experiences
and the lessons that you've learned. And I think you know,
(40:25):
Haley Haley, and I like, we're loving this podcast series
that we get to do because we get to sit
back and listen to people who are inspiring, inspiring us
um and then push it out there for the world
to to see it here. But I gotta say, for
this episode in particular, you know, Stephanie, you're reminding me
that there's a totally different way to do all this,
(40:45):
and I think it's something we all have to be
reminded of because we sort of get into our our way,
our routine, and I certainly have my way of doing marketing.
But when I look at what you are doing, that
we are, Rosie, and what you're powering and the next
generation of great marketers, it just makes me rethink everything
I assumed, and it questioned my bias and and my
(41:07):
presumptions not just about like what marketing is and and
how to do it, but who can do it and
how they can do it together is different. And then
Antonio with you. I mean, I don't get to talk
to you a lot, but my whole career I've looked
up to you, and when when we we're putting this
podcast together, you know, you're the one for me who
(41:29):
I look at what not just what you've done with
your career, but but how you've done it and how
you make people feel. And that's what people will always
say about you. And it's what I really hope and
I know Haley agrees that people will say about us. Um,
you know, we didn't just do a lot of great work,
but we meant a lot to them a lot of people.
(41:51):
That's what I think we all hope for. So it's
it's just a real honor to have you on this
with us. So thank you so much, both of you.
Thank you guys. Thank you Stephanie. A pleasure meeting you.
You're a terrific lady. Please keep it going, Please keep going.
We need it bad. We will keep going. I can
promise you that. Thank you so much. It's it's an
(42:12):
honor to be here today with this crew. Well that
does it for this episode of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast. I'm Ross Martin and I'm Hailey Rohmer. And
thank you for listening. We'll be back with another episode
before you. Note and for more information on the American
(42:32):
Advertising Federation, go to a a F dot org.
After you begin to push people actually appear. It's really
interesting that just focusing on it and then making the
effort to actually identifying and developing that went is a
big deal. I think that's so important. To encourage people
to throw their hat in the ring. We're constantly having
to encourage people, women, people of color, kind of anybody
(00:28):
that's from a marginalized group to say, hey, throw your
hat in the ring, like other people are doing it,
your your peers are doing it, and you belong in
this group too. Hello and welcome to the Future Legends
of Advertising podcast, featuring newly inducted members of the American
Advertising Federations Hall of Achievement and those in the Hall
(00:51):
of Fame. In this series, will compare notes, gain insights,
and explore the future of the advertising industry through never
before heard conversations between the who are shaping it. You'll
meet industry icons like Bosma st John, Daisy Exposita, Uilla,
Deborah Wall, and future ones, including leaders from the most
impactful brands, agencies, and media platforms in the world. We're
(01:14):
your host, Hailey Romer and Ross Martin. Now let's meet
the legends, all right, So, Haley, I am going to
be the one to introduce Maestrol and Antonio Lucio, who, uh,
we could spend the whole this is this is the
(01:34):
problem with the Hall of Famers, the legends that we're introducing,
is you could take the whole episode to introduce them,
and then it would be like the Antonio Show. But like,
he doesn't want that. He's already shaking his head and
he's like, don't keep it short, so I will. He
needs no introduction. The former chief marketing officer for Facebook,
the first one they ever had, the former chief marketing
(01:56):
officer of HP, the former chief marketing officer of Visa
before that, PepsiCo. And I think that you don't define
business leader like Antonio through titles like that, even though
they are super impressive. He's also not someone that anybody
defines by the work itself, which is legendary. But it's
(02:19):
the man. It is the human being, the father, the husband,
the friend, and the transformational leader that he is that
makes Antonio so inspiring. And we're gonna hear from him shortly,
but just just so everyone knows, we're breaking some news here.
If you haven't heard, should be surprised. To no one.
It was like the biggest duh of all time, that
(02:40):
Antonio Lucio is going to be inducted into the Advertising
Hall of Fame class of two thousand twenty three. Please
welcome to this podcast Everybody's favorite Antonio Lucio. Well, thank
you very much, Rush for that wonderful intellection. Hall of
Fame is what happens when when when you're old and
(03:02):
people want you to move away from the markets. And
I am gladly doing so as we speak. But I'm
I'm I'm actually deeply honored. Bye bye, bye bye this
by this a work. I don't know if I agree
that anybody wants you to move away from anything. Antonio,
your name comes up in almost every conversation. As I
just spoke with Antonio, Antonio advised me on this. Antonio
(03:24):
said that, um so I can say confidently on behalf
of the world, nobody wants you to go anywhere. But
I am excited, really really excited right now to introduce
Stephanie Natty. Often if you don't know Stephanie, you surely
know her work or someone on her team. Stephanie is
the epitome of a visionary and I'm going to prove
(03:47):
that to you right Now, in case you're not familiar
with with what Stephanie's done, just before the pandemic, Stephanie
started we Are Rosie. She's the founder and CEO of
we Are Rosie, which is the flexible career platform for
those in our industry and advertising and marketing for professionals
in all seasons of their career. Stephanie worked in advertising previously,
(04:09):
and in eighteen she decided to embrace the idea of
remote work, way before the pandemic happened and everybody was
doing this now. What I love about Stephanie's story is
not only has she created a mechanism for people to
do the thing they love in the way that works
for them, but she did it coming out of the
(04:30):
life experience that she had being the daughter of a refugee,
which has driven her affinity and advocacy for marginalized groups
and her desire really to create a better way of
doing business just by focusing on the people who are
actually doing the work. I love that Stephanie has had
no shortage of accomplishments of her own. During her advertising career,
she worked with major brands like Microsoft and a O
(04:52):
l Um, as well as startups Stephanie saw the industry
from every angle and understood that there as an opportunity
to truly transform the way that we work, and so
four years later we are Rosie works with more than
twenty five Fortune five brands, as well as six major
advertising holding companies. In fact, if you're listening, your company
(05:13):
probably does some work with Stephanie or someone on our team.
And Stephanie has also been named this year as e
Wise Entrepreneur of the Year in the Southeast Region, one
of Atlanta Business chronicles most admired CEOs, and one of
Atlanta Magazines two thousand twenty two Women making a Mark.
Stephanie was named Adage Visionary of the Year in twenty twenty,
(05:35):
has been recognized by ad Week as the Creative one
hundred was named among World Changing Women. The list goes
on and on. Stephanie, you really are a visionary. You're
changing so much of what's happening. It's a pleasure to
have you here. Thank you for joining us. Oh Hayley,
thank you for that generous welcome. That is so kind
of you. I'm so happy to be here and in
(05:56):
such great company today. So, Stephanie in a Tonio, why
do you think we would pair the two of you.
We could have paired you with anybody. You're both like
absolutely outstanding. Anybody would want to be on the podcast
with either of you. But we did put you two together.
Like why why you two? Why do you think in
your meeting for the first time, I think here, so
why do you think we put you together? I'll take
(06:18):
a guess of this Ross. I mean, I think hopefully
it's because the universe has destined the two of us
to meet. I think since I started We Are Rosy,
three times a week people were like, have you met Antonio?
Have you talked to Antonio? I'm like, I would love to.
I would love to talk to Antonio. So, UM, maybe
that's part of it. But I think, UM, one of
the things that I had really admire about Antonio and
(06:39):
that I find really relatable is UM a little bit
of this kind of outsider's mentality, you know, like, Um,
Antonio's a one of a handful of Latin cmos that
that I can think of, and coming from an Arabic family,
you know, I don't see myself well represented in the
marketing and advertising world either, and so I really enjoyed
watching the way that he gracefully navigates building his career
(07:03):
and influence while also bringing others along on the journey,
and I hope to do the same in the work
that I'm doing. Yeah, I agree. I think both of
us have share the division for um building a business
through diversity and an inclusion to ensure that the communities
(07:26):
that we served represented the right way, and to do
it in a systematic sort of way, not through uh storytelling,
but through actual, through actual hard work. So I'm I've
been very impressed with the work Um Stephanie has done
and continues to do. So I'm I'm delighted. I'm actually
honored to be sharing the stage with her. You know what,
(07:48):
I want to jump on what you just said, Antonio,
in the sense that you both have an idea for
better ways of working and having a more inclusive workplace,
giving people more of a platform and a voice and
how they come to work. And if I were to
juxtapose your perspectives for just a moment, I don't want
to imply that your perspectives are singular and your view
(08:09):
is singular or comes just from one way, But I
would say, Stephanie, you've been focused on the worker themselves,
and saying how can the workplace be the best place
for the worker? And Antonio being in these huge leadership
positions and being an advisor to so many leaders, you're thinking, Okay,
how do we as leaders help the workplace thrive? So
(08:32):
maybe from your different vantage points, what are the biggest
priorities that you are both seeing right now? And how
are like, where do you see the white space and
the opportunity to continue to improve? Again from both perspectives, Yeah,
I'll jump in on this one. I think we're at
such a crazy moment we're actually talking about this today. Um,
I think we're seeing kind of the dismantling of a
(08:54):
lot of old systems, um, including the way of work
right if you think of that as a system that
was developed over a hundred years ago with you know,
Henry Ford and this Monday through Friday forty hour work week. Um,
we've held onto that even though all this technology has
enabled us to work in different ways. And I think
COVID really pushed a lot of people, a lot of employers,
(09:14):
a lot of organizations to say, like, gosh, is this
still the best way to do it? Right? Do we
still need to be dragging everybody into an office, Um,
can we not give them any flexibility? And I think
we're at this really interesting moment where, UM, things are
kind of falling apart so that they can fall into place,
hopefully in a way that honors the way that people
are living and working today. And that includes everything from
(09:36):
having women in the workforce to having you know, people
that want to participate in the advertising industry that maybe
want to live outside of New York City. UM. And
I think it's just such a cool time for us
to be pushing for change and it's something that I'm
um excited to see companies and organizations and leaders really
think about how they can grow their business through creating
(09:58):
an environment where the talent that's parts fan can drive. Yeah.
I totally agree, definitely. At the at the institutional level,
I think that what the focus needs to be on,
the focus needs to be on the inclusion and needs
to be on the second generation of leaders. I think
companies are doing really well when it comes to the
(10:18):
entry level. When it comes to the pipeline for senior
leadership role, that's the single biggest area of opportunity. That's
where I'm spending most of my time today. UM. And
one of the biggest hurdles that that I have been
(10:40):
approaching with with with some of the companies that are
working with is this notion that, well, there's no no
pipeline for the for the leadership roles at the at
the second at the two levels below below the CMO.
And what's interesting about that observation is every single leader
(11:00):
that I know in all the companies that you mentioned
that I have worked, everyone from Indra and only to
shel Sanberg to men, everyone has had stretched assignments. Stretch assignments,
for definition, are assignments in which you don't have the capability,
but you have potential and someone is betting on your potential.
(11:25):
If you're a woman or person of color, it is
considered a diversity play. If you're not, it's considered a
career development play. And that's sort of frame of mind
needs to be changed across the board because stretch assignment,
by de phoinition means that you're not ready. Whether you're
white or black, or male or female or gay, you
(11:45):
are not ready, but someone is betting on on your potential.
Um that and then we need to do some some
re reframing, particularly among women and people of colors of
three concepts that I'm hammering constantly now, um politics, power,
and network. We have an a negative view of what
(12:11):
politics is. We have a very difficult time with owning
power because of where we come from and and and
sometimes we think that network is not part building network
is not part of the actual of the actual work.
So a lot of the work that we're doing is
reframing that politics is nothing. But first, politics is value neutral,
(12:34):
and it's nothing more than an organization's ability to get
things done within its culture. And if you're a leader,
you have to figure that out. If you're not able
to figure that out, you're not doing your job and
you're not going to advance the agenda, and you're gonna
let actually your people behind. Power is nothing more than
your impact and influence within an organization and the ability
(12:58):
to be recognized as such. And what's interesting is that
when you when when you're given a position, your boss,
your beers, and the people that reported into you are
expecting you to own that power. And once again, if
you don't reframe your mindset to feel comfortable owning that power,
(13:19):
you're not going to be successful. And then the last
pieces network as you go up within the organization that
becomes the job more than your ability to actually uh
do the ar descental side of it. Antonio, I love
um what you're saying about potential, and it resonates so
much with me, Um because a lot of the work
(13:41):
we do it we are Rosy, is about matching people
to opportunity based on potential. So I don't know if
you've heard about this, Santonio should give you the high
level here, but you know we match people two project
based work based on what we call the four piece, right,
which is that our custom algorithmic but also very human
way to connect people to opportunity. UM. One of them's pedigree,
(14:01):
which is resume based you know, information, which is you know,
a record of bias and privilege in a lot of ways.
And the next one is potential, right. And then the
last two our play, which is how do you want
to work and play and passion? What type of work
really lights you up? But potential is one that we
talked to our clients about extensively, right, and it's something
that really captivates their imagination because they've been accustomed to
(14:25):
hiring people based on pedigree, right, and promoting people based
on pedigree and giving them opportunity based on pedigree. But
the challenge with that is that you're giving people additional
opportunity on the heels of potentially a very bias system
that has already given them opportunities. And so giving people
opportunity based on potential allows you to see and and
(14:48):
invite people in that may not always already be in
the room and may not always get those opportunities. And
what we've found that we are Rosie is if somebody
has a high potential score match with this Pacific project,
they will often outperform somebody that's just a high pedigree
match or even you know, the highest pedigree match, because
(15:09):
we see this potential in them. And it's a big
part of our effort to level the playing field and
also surface talent that just isn't getting the access to
opportunity and power and wealth, which kind of recreates that circle. Right.
Once you have the wealth, there's more, you know, access,
opportunity and power coming your way. I'm curious how your
conversations with the leaders that you're working with are going
(15:32):
as you try to get them to reconsider their approach
to doling out opportunity and sharing it with people. Throughout
their organization. First, just to comment on what you just said.
Although people like to say that they're making promotions based
on pat agree, that's actually not true. When you're talking
about the senior senior positions in those corporations, that degree
(15:55):
is one, but it's actually potential and and and and
those and both and both dimensions are always measured. You
get a score for your actual performance during a given year,
and then you get a different score whether you're going
to be able to be promoted within the next for
the next to two particular positions. That that assessment, that
(16:16):
evaluation of potential is completely arvyduary, completely arverydrary and and
and normally all sorts of prejudice and and and issues
go into play with with with those particular assessment and
and it's clearly very important for for companies actually acknowledge that,
so that because if you don't acknowledge that, you're not able,
(16:37):
not not able to begin to change the way the
way in which you in which you behave. Yeah, it's
it is really hard to measure, and you're right, I mean,
it's it's completely subjective in a lot of ways. You know,
it's hard to find something that's truly kind of programmatic
to measure somebody's potential. But we found some success with
(16:59):
having hugh and conversations with people right Like, it cannot
be pulled from a database, but it's about getting to
know people and understanding their drive and a lot of
it is intuitive. Um, do you feel like those decisions
are made with intuition in the highest levels of organization? Sometimes? Sometimes?
Sometimes sometimes No, I mean within the context of the
(17:20):
program that that I run, the Leadership Acceleration Project. Umm,
I have sixteen sixteen companies some other conversations with the
senior leaders is I am not sure whether I can
find eight eight within an entire marketing department a group
of people that that that will have the petty rean
(17:42):
potential to actually participate in this particular program. And what's
interesting is that when when after you begin to push,
people actually appear. When you when you're saying, okay, it's
it's it's it's like you said, it's about potential, then
people appear all of us on and there they all
of the begin to pay attention to them. Yeah, and
(18:03):
all of a sudden they've become part of the of
the succession plans. So it's it's it's really interesting that
just focusing on it, calling it, and then making the
effort to actually identifying and developing that that pvalent is
a big deal. I think that's so important to encourage
(18:23):
people to throw their hat in the ring by calling
out like, we're going to make this decision also based
on potential because we see it every day and the
work that we're doing. Um, you know, an easy one
to throw out is like women will apply for a
project or raise their hand for a project on our
platform when they're a qualified UM for men, it's you know,
(18:45):
somewhere between sixty and qualified. And we're constantly having to
encourage people, women, people of color, kind of anybody that's
from a marginalized group to say, hey, throw your hat
in the ring, like other people are doing it. You're
peers are doing it, and you belong in this group too.
And so I think verbally saying hey, we're looking at
(19:05):
potential as a good signal to people that they can
take what feels like to them as a risk. What
you're saying is is incredibly important. So the people that
participating in in my in the project, I am devoting
three one hour sessions with each one and the amount
of the amount of time, the number of times that
(19:27):
I just have to say it is really important for
the company to understand what you want is is insane.
And like you said, you know, if you're if you're
a man that comes from a certain school, on your
straight and this isn't that you're I mean from the
moment that you're born, you're you're asking for stuff and
(19:48):
you disserve that stuff. Um the rest of us, it's
it's it's it's a bit harder, but it's clearly very
important for the companies in what you're working on for
for them to know where you stand at what you
want and to have them And by the way, you
have to own that. They say, careers are a two
way stream. That means you have to drive um and
(20:11):
every position that you take it's send it's sending a
signal of both capability and intent. And if you're not
careful as to the things that you say yes to
are the things that you say no to, your career
may end up in a corner that you're not able
to recover ever. Again, so that the fact that you
(20:31):
have to have ownership of what you want and people
will not know what they don't know about what you
want is really important that you're very very very specific umuh.
And you deserve to have that those types of conversations
and get that type of feedback that will enable you
to actually get to the next level. Yeah. I have
(20:53):
a little story about this, actually, Antonio, that I share
with people often. I was working for a big tech
company and I've been based Atlanta my entire career, and
I can't even begin to enumerate all the times I've
been bribed and pressured and bullied to move to New York,
right because I've been very ambitious and I've I've laid
that bear. Everybody around me knows, like I've got big
(21:14):
goals and big dreams, and everyone's like, well, then you
need to move to New York. And you know, being
raised in a family um that comes from a refugee background,
like I was raised that you don't leave your family,
like unless you're forcibly removed from your family, you have
to stick together. So for me, leaving Atlanta was a
non option. So that was like the one thing I
just couldn't sacrifice for my career. And I remember I
(21:35):
was asking for promotion at this big tech company, and
I kept getting the move to New York line, and
I just I just kind of like gave up on it, right,
And then I saw a colleague of mine who um,
she said to them, you know, I'll move to New York,
but only temporarily, and you're going to pay for it,
and you're going to move my family there, and you
(21:57):
know you're gonna pay for me to fly back to Atlanta,
uh twice a twice a month. And they did it.
And I remember watching this happen for her and saying,
I didn't even think to ask for that. You know,
that's not a permanent move, it's like an apprenticeship. Like good,
I'll come to New York and soak up everything you
want me to soak up from that office. But I'm
going to come back to Atlanta, where my my heart
(22:19):
is and where my family is. And that was such
a good lesson for me to do exactly what you're saying,
just ask for it. And it's advice now I give
to everybody, like be specific. And what's the worst that
can happen is you end up where you are now.
Best case scenarios, you get everything you've wanted, right, um,
And there's a lot of space in the middle there
for improvement. Incremental improvement in your situation if you'll just
(22:41):
ask and be bold. Yeah, the the other pieces depending
on where you're in your career. The word that I
use is in inventionality. You you you need to be
very specific as to what you're building and and and
and and ensure that everything that you do is that
means going in. If you're in the first half of
your career, it's all about seeking and and and getting
(23:04):
as much experiences as you want so that you know
what what you're good at and what you and what
you like. Second half of your career, you have to
add a significant amount of intentionality. That those conversations with
women and people of color are incredibly surprising. It's like,
what do you mean, because it's almost that we we
tend to take a more passive view as to what's
(23:25):
available for me, and we go and we just pursue
that as supposed to stepping back and say, Okay, I
actually want to be like the subject matter expect of
the world in this and I'm going to build my
career for that. I'm going to be a bit more generalist.
CMO rout if you will and this is what I'm
going to build towards or and I'm actually going to
run a business. But that level of intentionality and and
(23:50):
really really being careful as to how you're building towards
the ends that you are pursuing is really very important.
And we are not having those conversations with that there
people that we're talking about. Yeah, and most of the
time is because of what you say, because they're not
(24:11):
bringing it forth. Yeah, I mean, but so often we're
just happy to be in the room, right, Like we're like, oh,
I don't know how I got into this party, but
I'm happy to be here and I don't want to
get bounced, And so I don't think that, you know,
for so many people that come from marginalized groups, we're
thinking like we're at the we're in the middle of
Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Were like, we need to move
(24:31):
on up to the top where we're like, this is
what this is what I need to thrive, not just
what I need to exist. And I think people like
you and I having conversations out loud is really helpful.
I didn't have a lot of any really role role
models when I was coming up in the industry to
help me with this stuff and I and I was
happy to be in the room. But I'm fortunate that
(24:52):
I had that focus and intentionality kind of naturally, and
I hope to be able to teach others about it.
Totally agree that The other is is that it took
me a very personally, took me a very long time
that there is a there's a system, uh to this madness.
So so for example, and most of the times we
(25:12):
don't we don't even know it. Um. Most of the
successful people that I have been involved with across multiple
levels have four things going for them. They have capability
at two levels, functional and then the leadership capability. Most
of the companies that when I was growing up in
in corporate America, leadership was something that was taught. You
(25:37):
don't have that anymore, but it's so it's it's capability
at those two levels. The second is community, And by
community I mean people outside of your company, because in
many cases, the people that I'm working with, they are
one or two within the company in those rooms, that's
not the community. So to have a community outside of
(25:59):
the company of people that are at your same level,
so that you can share, you know, what you're learning.
You can share your frustrations, you can share am I
going crazy? Because sometimes you companies do that to you.
They make you feel like you're crazy, so that they are.
They add perspective, they give you pointers an importantly, importantly,
(26:22):
they never allow you to feel isolated, which is super important.
The third is mentors, and I separate mentors from sponsors.
Mentors are people that that get to know you deeply
and are going to ask you not just about your work.
They're going to ask you about your work, your life,
the integration between the two, and are the ones that
(26:44):
are going to ask you the very tough questions like
you know, Antonio, maybe have you considered that maybe it's
time for you to move on? Um? And and normally
the people inside the company are not going to ask
you that type of question because for for for I
mean you have a ferruciary responsibility with the company first.
(27:05):
And then the sponsor, which is inside the company pulling
your career, is the person that is going to advocate
for you, is the person that is going to indeed
give you the stress assignment. If you're a white guy,
was straight white guy from the Northeast, those four things
you have it from birth, the community you want to
(27:25):
school with all these people that now are all over
and they become your support group. And mentors were your
uncles and the friends of your father that sat in
the dinner table with you. And this isn't that, and
and and and you're going to get the sponsors. In
my particular case, I was lucky that I was people
invested in my capability and I had sponsors community I
(27:46):
only was able to build when I got involved in
d and I that these people became my mind. And
that's that's the the last twelve years of my career
out of forty um and mentors I also found in
the last fifteen years of my career, and those two
things fundamentally changed my life. Changed my outlook, change the
(28:08):
way that I've felt about my work, and and and
we need that we need to increase the level of
awareness of our people so that they get to build
that from the get go and they don't have to
do the stumbling that that I had to do. Yeah,
Oh my gosh, that speaks to me so deeply. I mean,
(28:30):
I feel like I spent the first ten years of
my career gathering up all of those things, right, like
creating my own network of support and mentors and sponsors
and leadership and all these things. I mean, I think
so many people can relate. I graduated from high school.
I actually went to community college my last year of
high school because I knew I was going to be
(28:51):
on my own to pay for college. So my last
year of high school, I was like, well, how can
I make this as cheap as possible. I went to
state school UM afterwards and worked multiple jobs and then
got dropped into the advertising industry. And the only people
I knew in this industry was the family that I
had nannied for from the time I was fourteen until
I was twenty two, and they helped me the simple
(29:13):
act of kindness of helping me prepare for an interview
in Microsoft's advertising division when I graduated college. It's how
I got the job at Microsoft. It changed the entire
trajectory of my career. And they were really the only
people I knew in corporate right. My parents were not
in this field, you know, my dad is a tailor. UM.
(29:33):
Neither of my parents went to college, and so I
spent the next ten years kind of grabbing every opportunity
I could write. Who were the people that I looked
up to. What could I learn from them? How could
I get more time with them? How could I get
in the room with my skip skip skip level boss,
so I could see what's going on in that room
and I could start to understand what the gap was
that I needed to fill to be in there more permanently. UM.
(29:57):
And then when I started We Are Rosie Antonio, I
started getting thrown into rooms that I never could have
imagined I would be in. I went from prior to
we R Rosie, I was begging, um, you know, media
directors at ad agencies to take a meeting with me.
I was selling a commoditized, you know, ad tech product
that you could buy from thirty different places, and it
(30:19):
was all relationship based, and it was so hard to
get meetings, so everyone was so exhausted. And then I
came up with this idea that resonated with people, and
all of a sudden, I was meeting with the CEOs
of these agencies and I had so much you know,
like what am I doing here? But the thing that
I learned there are two couple of things I learned.
The difference between the people UM that you know or
(30:42):
me ten years ago, and these people that I was
meeting in the C suite was I just felt like
they believed that they belonged there. Like they weren't any
smarter than everyone I had met. They might be more polished,
but they simply just believed that they belonged in that
seat in that room. And that was thing that was
really eye opening for me because my whole life I
(31:03):
assumed that the people in the C suite were some
like superhuman one in a million, people that you know,
only come around every so often and they're spectacular and
you either have it or you don't. And then I'm
now I'm sitting there and I know all these amazing
peers and listen, they're they're phenomenal people. UM. But there's
(31:24):
not this huge gap that I thought there was. You know,
they're not superhuman, they're people, UM, and a lot of
them have worked really hard and like you said, some
of them woke up on third base the day they
were born. UM. But they just all believe that they
belonged there. And I think that that was something that
really propelled me for it. I had to change my
mindset around. I believe that I belonged here to UM.
(31:46):
But it certainly helps to have people along the way
to guide you, you know, because you don't want people,
um spending more time, any more time than necessary, thinking
that they don't belong. So the you agree. That's why
I think the whole, the whole concept of community and
mentors is so important, because what what you're saying. And
I was in again in one of my mentoring sessions
(32:08):
with one particular lady from an amazing company, as he said, well,
I'm I'm I have an amazing education. I have um
in terms of brains, I can I can go to
bed with anyone. I'm I'm lacking social capital. And I said,
what do you mean is that it's not easy for
me like you, Like it wasn't for you. It wasn't
for me either, uh to go into a room and
(32:30):
talk to people about the CEO or or the CMO
or such and such about anything because again having impostor syndrome,
or because we've never done it before. Because the way
that I was raised and the people that I hung
out with and my my parents were all not didn't
know anything about corporations. Um. My father could could not
(32:51):
even pronounce procter and gamble and and and and he
could not understand what marketing was, and he died without
understanding what marketing was. So it I think most of
us are going to die without understanding what marketing. That's
that's that's that's another building that that wh need you
(33:11):
get into. You both have brought up family a few times.
And you know, Stephanie, you were the final honoree of
the evening at a f hall of achievement, and you
spoke so lovingly about your family, um, and what they
sacrificed for you to be able to create We are
Rosie and grow it to this size. I guess I'm
(33:32):
asked for both of you. I know how both indebted
you both feel to your partners and to your children
for allowing you to go do the careers you've done. Um,
can you talk about that commitment that they've made to
you and how it how it makes you feel? You know,
as a leader who you know you you you sacrifice
(33:53):
so much time with your families to build the careers
you're building. Can you both talk about your families and
how you think about integrating family and work. Yeah, um man,
I I'll just start by saying, like I there isn't
a day that goes by that I don't have like
overflowing gratitude for the role that my husband and partner
(34:14):
has played and supporting me as I've chased my dreams.
My kids have both spent more than half of their
lives competing for my attention with this business. The business
is five years old, uh, shortly will be five years old,
and my kids are seven and nine. So the business
has been a big part of our family lives and
it will be something that my children remember right for
the rest of their lives. This time and you know,
(34:37):
I guess potentially unpopular opinion here, I don't really believe
in work life balance. I think it's impossible, Uh, in
certain seasons of your career, certainly, and when I'm pedal
to the metal trying to build a movement and a
new category in a way of work. Uh, there is
no work life balance. U. My hope is every day
(34:58):
that I can find harm any and moments, and that
I can choose moments to be more present, and that
over time, obviously, as the business scales um and we
have some sixty amazing people working here and twenty thousand
people in our community, that I can take some more
steps back, right so that I can find more of
that harmony in the day to day. Um. But it's messy,
(35:20):
you know, Like this is probably my number one stressor
in life, is the guilt I feel about Am I
doing enough for the team that we are Rosie? Am
I doing enough for my daughters? Am I doing enough
for my spouse, who you know is endlessly supportive. Um.
It's hard and it's messy, and I try to talk
about it really plainly because I want people to hear it,
(35:42):
you know, like it can't be all rosy all the time.
And this is something that I've really struggled with. UM.
But I'm really thankful that I've had the support system
because starting this business for me was not like a
nice to have. It was a compulsion, Like I felt
compelled and drawn to this mission to do this work.
And I so fortunate that I've I've never been made
(36:02):
to feel guilty, um by my family. But I carry
it with me as I try to find, you know,
some semblance of balance throughout throughout the days and years. Yeah,
I agree with you. There's no no such things as balance.
You can try to integrate as as much as you can,
and it it's a It's a living, breathing organism that
(36:26):
moves around, sometimes his works, sometimes his family. Sometimes it's you, UM,
and you have to feel okay with um, with with
with all of it. I learned that the hard way. Uh.
It's easier for me to talk about work life integration
now that I'm sixty three and and my daughters are
(36:47):
out of out of out of school. Uh except for
actually the last two um, after I've had a four
year career. But I made every single mistake in the
book I I. I decided to be very traditional about
I is completely separated my work life from my personal life.
And I was doing an international career, which felt that
(37:10):
which which meant that I always felt that I owed
time to one of the aspects of my life because
I had this notional balance. Okay, so it's fifteen hours
here and I'll have to live fifteen hours over there.
I was not integrating my life at all. I was
a house divided, and as as the line said, the
(37:31):
house divided cannot stand them and I I had to
pay a price for that. I got sick, and then
thanks to the endless support of of my family, I
was able to then we build a more integrated um
a more integrated sort of of life. If if you're
(37:52):
not fully aware of it, if you're not talking about it,
if you don't have a support system around it, it
will affect you. We're humans, Uh, it would affect you
one way, one way or the other. So in in
in my particular case, it's a little bit of what
you're doing, Stephany the work became a family project, the
reason why why does that work? And I would share
(38:13):
why um to the point that it became I think
the the sometimes the dinner table evaluation of my work
became more uh tougher than the research that I was
doing globally for for for my particular work. But it
took me a long time to get to UM. Took
(38:33):
me a long time to get to uh, to to
to that what what what? Family has also also done
for me, particularly my wife actually is uh when I
forget to check in on me, she is making sure
that I do. Yeah, And it's it's really important. Mental
business is is that thing and and it's something that
(38:56):
we don't talk about, you know, as an industry as
as as a workforce. And I know for a fact
that the pandemic didn't make things easy and that we're
going to be paying for it for a very long
period of time. It took me a very long time
to actually come to terms with the fact that for
a significant period of my life I was suffering from
(39:17):
depression and I had to deal with it, and I
had to become clean about it, and I had to
talk about it and share with my my family and
with my team what I was going to do about it.
We just need to acknowledge that we're human beings. Um,
we just have to acknowledge that there are many more
things than words that constitute our life, and that we
(39:39):
should be in safe environments where we can share the
stuff so that we can all be a bit more
empathetic with one another. And that has nothing to do
with performance, By the way, you can do that and
be a high performing UH individual and had and had
performing business and be successful as well. Yeah, you both
probably don't realize that, but you're giving so much really
(40:03):
important advice and sharing so much wisdom. And I love
the honesty and vulnerability that you're bringing to this conversation
because I think you know, there's there's totally a world
where we have the two of you here and start
throwing questions at you and you know what the right
answers might be, and you can share them. But I
think nothing is more valuable than sharing your own experiences
and the lessons that you've learned. And I think you know,
(40:25):
Haley Haley, and I like, we're loving this podcast series
that we get to do because we get to sit
back and listen to people who are inspiring, inspiring us
um and then push it out there for the world
to to see it here. But I gotta say, for
this episode in particular, you know, Stephanie, you're reminding me
that there's a totally different way to do all this,
(40:45):
and I think it's something we all have to be
reminded of because we sort of get into our our way,
our routine, and I certainly have my way of doing marketing.
But when I look at what you are doing, that
we are, Rosie, and what you're powering and the next
generation of great marketers, it just makes me rethink everything
I assumed, and it questioned my bias and and my
(41:07):
presumptions not just about like what marketing is and and
how to do it, but who can do it and
how they can do it together is different. And then
Antonio with you. I mean, I don't get to talk
to you a lot, but my whole career I've looked
up to you, and when when we we're putting this
podcast together, you know, you're the one for me who
(41:29):
I look at what not just what you've done with
your career, but but how you've done it and how
you make people feel. And that's what people will always
say about you. And it's what I really hope and
I know Haley agrees that people will say about us. Um,
you know, we didn't just do a lot of great work,
but we meant a lot to them a lot of people.
(41:51):
That's what I think we all hope for. So it's
it's just a real honor to have you on this
with us. So thank you so much, both of you.
Thank you guys. Thank you Stephanie. A pleasure meeting you.
You're a terrific lady. Please keep it going, Please keep going.
We need it bad. We will keep going. I can
promise you that. Thank you so much. It's it's an
(42:12):
honor to be here today with this crew. Well that
does it for this episode of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast. I'm Ross Martin and I'm Hailey Rohmer. And
thank you for listening. We'll be back with another episode
before you. Note and for more information on the American
(42:32):
Advertising Federation, go to a a F dot org.
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