November 16, 2022 • 22 mins
Wenda Harris Millard and Crystal Zerrener discuss their propensity for risk, what makes great leaders in advertising and how to continue to push the industry forward. Also hear how Wenda has paved the way for women in advertising, media and tech, and Wenda's thoughts on the future of advertising. Crystal has clearly taken the baton Wenda's has passed and goes deep on decision making throughout her career, including why she went after projects like Barbie when she was CMO of BBDO.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
As the leader, the job is really to make sure
you nurture the people, because the industry will nurture the output.
I love what you said. I think it's a wonderful
way to articulate it. I think I've always looked at
leadership as setting people up for success and creating an
environment that allows them to be as good as they are. Hello,
(00:34):
and welcome to the Future Legends of Advertising podcast featuring
newly inducted members of the American Advertising Federations Hall of
Achievement and those in the Hall of Fame. In this series,
will compare notes, gain insights, and explore the future of
the advertising industry who never before heard conversations between those
who are shaping it. You'll meet industry icons like Bozoma St. John's,
(00:57):
Daisy Exposita, Lah, Deborah Wall, and future ones, including leaders
from the most impactful brands, agencies, and media platforms in
the world. We're your host, Hailey Rohmer and Ross Martin.
Now let's meet the legends. I'll introduce Whenda first. The
entire podcast can be my introduction of Window because that
(01:18):
I'm not that old and so as everyone knows, Whenda
as the vice chair of Media Link as the former
chief sales Officer for Yahoo, bringing Yahoo's sales from seven
hundred million back in the day in just five or
six years all the way up to six billion that
when that was unheard of, and creating possibly one of
(01:40):
the best sales teams ever. When she was at Yahoo,
co CEO and president of Martha Stewart Living on the Media,
which is the first time any of us ever heard
the word on the media, chief Internet Officer that was
like a thing right when the Internet was like the
super Highway. And then a founding executive of team member
for Double Click. The career trajectory of Wenda Harris Millard
(02:05):
is just astounding. But what's I think meant so much
more is that even while you were that busy having
that career you have, you managed to devote so much
of your time and your heart to this industry and
to the community. And you did that in lots of
different ways. You continue to do that. You were the
chair of the I a B. You were the president
(02:27):
of the Ad Club. You didn't just get into the
Hall of Fame last year, but when you got into
the Hall of Fame, you were also awarded the David
Bell Award for industry service, and then you also serve
on the personal board of directors for dozens of the
best executives in the in the world who count on
Wenda for career guidance and advice. So I don't know
(02:50):
how Outstands reduced this legend, but she's here on our show,
and please welcome to the podcast, Wenda, Harris Millard. Thank you, Ross,
so so appreciate that. I'm really happy to be here.
You know, it's pretty incredible, of course, just running down
the list of accomplishments that you've had, Wenda, And I'm
(03:10):
sure that if we double clicked on all of that, no,
no pun intended going back to your past, but if
we were to do that, there would be so much
more to fill in in between what Ross just said.
And what I love about the essence of this conversation
is taking what you've done and pairing it with someone
like Crystal, who, in her at the sort of midway
(03:31):
point of her career, has already achieved so much, and
in part because someone like you has made it possible
for her to get where she is and to have
had some of the opportunities that she has had. So
I am incredibly excited to introduce our Advertising Hall of
Achievement inductee today, Crystals are anner. For those of you
(03:53):
listening who do not know Crystal, She's currently Chief Growth
Officer at Thinks, the period it and bladder leaked absorbing
underwear company Crystal Joint Thinks, though with many creative awards
under her belt, including having tripled the number of effectiveness
awards for B B d Oh during her time as
the chief marketing officer over there. Crystal is known around
(04:16):
the industry for reinforcing the idea that doing good is
good for business, which we love. And as I said,
at this sort of midway point in her career, she's
already done so much to give back to the community
that we're all working at. Crystal is a member of Maker,
she was the Time's Up signatory, She's a founding member
of Chief, and she was named to add ages forty
(04:37):
under forty. And I think the reason is, or what
people would point to, is because she's long focused on
building teams that foster equity and create opportunity for everyone,
which of course is in line with what you've done
and how you feel. Whenda, we see the a h
o A as a launch pad for massive future career
and industry endeavors. And I am certain that Crystali be
(04:58):
one of those people that take this ball and runs
really far with it. So welcome Crystal, thank you for
joining us. Oh, it's an honor to be here. Um
it's just been an incredibly humbling experience. And um, you know,
without it, I wouldn't be able to have coffee virtually
with Winda. So it's all been we would Why don't
we start with Weinda, I think Wendy, you may remember
(05:19):
back in the day that you got into the Hall
of Fame. Do you remember when you were inducted into
the Hall of Achievement and what that felt like? I
absolutely do. Ross. Uh it was quite a few years back,
I think, Um, I believe the Hall of Achievement at
that time. Uh, I think I was the second class.
So it was all very very new, and we were
(05:43):
all excited about it because we had a feeling even
back then that we were about to become a part
of a very long term community. And I think what's
wonderful about it is that that has proved to be true.
There's a an incredible sense of camaraderie among the recipients
(06:04):
of that Hall of Achievement award, and I think I
had that sense right away. I mean, this is one
of the things that I love about this business is
that the people in this business care about each other
and the industry in a way that I don't think
it's really true of many other industries. So to be
acknowledged as a young leader in an industry that I
(06:26):
so loved and that most people who were in it
really love, it just felt great and it was a
very very exciting moment. Do you have any words of
wisdom for Crystal Well, First of all, Crystal, congratulations on
on the upcoming induction, but also on all the all
the things that you have done in the industry and
(06:47):
for the industry that has brought you to to this moment.
So I would say, take a minute, pat yourself on
the back. Job well done, enjoy it, but at the
same time, understand that it now sort of requires of
you a responsibility to a larger group of people to
continue to be the leader that you've already proved that
(07:09):
you are. I think there is a shared sense of
responsibility among this alumni group that we we want to
take care of the industry, and one of the reasons.
I've always loved the Hall of Achievement. It is one
of the most uplifting days of the year, So enjoy that.
But one of the reasons I really love it is
it always gives me a great feeling about the future
(07:34):
of the industry. I always leave that event saying, oh,
we are going to be just fine with people like
Crystal receiving the awards. So I would say, enjoy the day,
but do understand that that with this UM Major Accolade
comes responsibility UM to continue to take care of the
(07:57):
industry UM. And it's people, you know, I think it's
really interesting your your insight you have about how people
that do wellness business are the same people that really
love it, right. I think that is a spirit that
does make our industry particularly magical. And I was just wondering, potentially,
as a lover of the business, is there anything that
(08:18):
you actually hate about it? Right? Is there is there's
something that you're you're hoping sort of this next generation
of leaders will will shed or or leave leave behind.
That is such a fabulous question. No one has ever
asked me that before I grew up in a different era,
one where accountability was not on the front burner, and
(08:43):
it sounds so strange to I think people in the
business now and probably for the past twenty five years
or so, since the digital age came upon us, where
accountability was one of the drivers of its birth. I
would say one of the things that I don't like
about the business is that it's not always taken as
seriously as those of us who work in it take
(09:05):
the responsibility that we have. And so when I was
growing up in this business, it was pretty much all
our all relationship driven, not a lot of accountability. We
we we never even knew how to spell the word
data back then. And I think, you know, over time,
advertising has become advertising and marketing has become much much
(09:29):
more sophisticated, certainly in our in our use of data
and our ability to answer that that old, old old
question about which half of my advertising works. So I
think what I don't like about it is that we
still are sometimes looked upon as a frivolous industry. I mean,
(09:51):
people know, you know, we go to the south of France,
and you know, we go to Las Vegas, and we
do a lot of entertaining and we eat very very well.
So I think, you know, I would wish for us
continued focus on accountability for what we do. And as
I said, I think we we've made some really good progress,
but we have to stay on that. This is a
(10:13):
very very serious business doing serious good, and I think
we we need to sort of carry carry that flag.
You both are obviously trail blazers and two women who
many many women surely look up to, have looked up to,
and will continue to look up to. Can you talk
a little bit about risk taking. I think I was
(10:33):
born with a high risk profile. I have always believed that,
you know, if you're not living on the edge, you're
taking up too much room. Um, And I think I
just I do believe that a lot of this is,
you know, you're born with some of this stuff. I
have a pretty limited attention span, uh, in many many ways,
and I love adventure. I love I love what's new.
(10:56):
I'm also somewhat of a contrarian, so I kind of
like to push the envelope. Like I I loved being
first in the in the digital world because people, you know,
kept saying things to me like, well, when are you
coming back to the real world, because the bubble over
my head is I am in the real world would
be interesting to see when you can catch up and
people who are always saying to me, well, do you
need a job? Do you need an office? This was
(11:18):
at the very beginning when we were starting Double Click,
and I'm like, don't you worry about me. I'm gonna
be fine. Um. So I I am sort of motivated
by the challenges that other people put in front of me,
and I think, you know, I do have a very
high risk profile, but it is a calculated risk in
that sense, you know, sort of leaping this was I
(11:40):
remember it was a headline and at age leaping into cyberspace.
You know, it kind of looked like a risk back
then in but it wasn't really. If you're a student
of the business, you would have known that accountability needed
to enter our world, and digital gave us an opportunity
to finally answer some of these questions of accountability. So,
(12:05):
you know, sure it was very, very high risk. I
had been in the magazine publishing business for twenty years already,
and I gave up a huge job and one that
I really really really liked, but I had to join
the revolution. I just had to. Yeah, that's funny. Um,
I don't know if I was born with a tolerance
for risk, but I was raised in a household that
played a lot of poker um, so I so I
(12:28):
got I got really good at at calculated risk and
understanding the reward if you if you understood the numbers
and had had good sense of humor, you could probably
come up on top. So I don't know if I
was born with it, but I definitely learned it over
over the years. I had built a reputation of being,
you know, a wild feminist. And everyone was like, Hey,
(12:51):
there's this pitch. I don't know if it will be
right for you. Do you want to give it a go?
And I was like, what is it like Barbaie? And
I was like, oh my gosh, I love Barbie right
And everyone was like, oh, we thought it might be
off brand, and I was like, are you kidding. She's
been the president like thirty six times, Like she's inherently
(13:11):
a feminist character. And so I think that's part of it,
which is like maintaining and an optimism and willing to embrace,
you know, the flaws and the ugly to to see
the magic and the sincerity, you know, And I think,
you know, we have to do that with lots of brands,
(13:32):
um and quite frankly each other. I knew that you know,
millennial moms everywhere like myself, for like gool can I
take this to the birthday party? And I thought, if
I do my job right, that will be a no
brainer and you'll want your child to have Barbie. We
just had to get back to the spirit, the DNA
(13:53):
of it. So I think, you know, risk is slightly
just tons of of innate optimism that it will come
out on top if you if you focus on the
bright spots and you know, call out the really ugly
ones as you see it. I want to ask you
both the question, and I would be remiss not to
ask you to talk a little bit about leadership. It's funny.
(14:16):
It's a cliche of the business, right, which is like
it's all about the people, but so much of the
industry celebrates the output, be at the work or the creativity,
like that only manifests because of people, right. It's it's
people's passions, it's people's brains, it's someone putting in the
sweat to get to the idea that it seems that
(14:38):
if we're going to be successful as a business, your
job as a as a leader is to nurture that
that humanity, and once you kind of understand that, it's
the most competitive advantage you have in the industry, being
a good leader just follows because you you become subservient
to making sure that you know, the projects are healthy,
(14:59):
that people are healthy. And so that's always been I
think core to it for me, which is like, you know,
now it's it's really InVogue to say, you know, give
each other grace, But it's like, how there was a
time in this industry where being compassionate and kind to
one another we had to remind each other. And so
I think I think that's been It's like going as
(15:23):
a leader, the job is really to make sure you
nurture the people, because the industry will nurture the output. Right.
I think that's going to make all the difference, especially
in this world and just the amount of volatility and
challenges ahead of us. I love what you said. I
think it's a It's a wonderful way to articulate it.
(15:45):
I think I've always looked at leadership as setting people
up for success and creating an environment that allows them
to be as good as they are. So I think
if if you accept that, um that version of leadership,
then you would agree that people want to be led.
(16:08):
People want to succeed, They love to succeed, they love
to be smart, and they love to be in an
environment where they will succeed. And so I think a
lot of my my time in the in the industry,
at whichever company I've I've been with at the time,
is about finding a way to help people be as
(16:32):
good as they can be. And you know, if if
they're at that company, if we hired them, then I
think they're probably really good at what they do. And
to find teammates for them that will make them successful,
to find managers for them that will make them successful,
to find projects opportunities in the industry certainly, So I think,
(16:53):
you know, to me, that's what leadership really is. It's
finding a way to create a business environment where people
can be as successful as they're destined to be. That's amazing.
I wonder you know, what's been very clear to us
as people have heard that we're going to do this
podcast and that we're having these conversations with legends and
(17:18):
the next generation. What's been made very clear to us
is that there are tens of thousands of people who
are already looking at the two of you and and
asking themselves like how do I get there? Like how
do I how do I do this? How do I
get to a moment like crystals having right now? If
you could look back to your your younger self and
(17:40):
remind yourself of one thing, what would you tell your
younger self? What would you say that would have changed
the course of your history. I think that I have
always believed that being a student of the business, like
forever being a student of the business. I still consider
myself a student of the bus. No, it keeps you relevant,
(18:02):
it keeps you smart, it keeps you challenged. So I
think my younger self would have said, don't never believe
your own press releases, and keep studying, keep keep being
a student of the business, and and share what you've learned.
(18:23):
You know, be be the student, but also be the teacher. Um.
But in being the teacher, don't lose your ability to learn.
So I think that's probably what I what I would
have said. I think it's actually what I did say too.
It's so funny. It really resonates with me because I
think mine is like this idea of like you have
(18:45):
to think fast and slow. And I definitely my younger
self still am wildly impatient. Um. But I think back
at the people that had to deal with me in
the early days, and I owe them all apologies, and
I hope they're listening. Um. So impatient and and and
I think the industry encourages fast thinking. You know, good
(19:06):
in the room says the right thing, really witty. Um.
But it was in the slow thinking that I did
my most meaningful work. And in that is just this
willingness to keep doubting and unlearning and unbelieving what what
you think? Right? Um? And you know there's that great
(19:28):
Adam Grant quotes, don't believe everything you think. It's like yes, yes,
And that's the curiosity. I think that that you're talking
about window right, which is like, you know, lean into
that curiosity, question yourself, question others, keep learning and digging
deep um. And I also think it's what energizes you
and gives you the stamina to have decades and decades
(19:52):
of success because that curiosity keeps it fun and interesting
because you are learning and you are grow ing. Um. Otherwise, gosh,
this would be a really exhausting business. I think I
don't want this episode to end. I think Haley and
I could do this forever, but um we're not allowed.
(20:12):
So we are going to end strong here and give
you a chance to just offer a parting message to
one another. When what would you like to say to Crystal?
I would say, so far, so great. What you have
already accomplished is so inspiring, and your belief in yourself
(20:33):
keep it strong, stay strong on that, do everything that
you can to live up to the responsibility that you
have earned in being a young leader in this business.
And I wish you enormous continued success and Crystal some
parting words as we conclude this podcast episode for Whenda
Harris Mallard, I mean thank you. I think not only
(20:55):
as a female leader in the business, but also just
as a fellow entraion. The idea that that you saw
an opportunity and you didn't just believe in it, you
made it real. That is really in inspiring. You know.
I think so many of us in this business are
makers and connectors and you've just built an entire career
(21:18):
on that. So it's impressive. And if if you know
what's next, please tell me, because I would love to
be be at the edge of the next revolution um
and you seem to have a really really good knack
for calling them. Thank you both for being guests on
our podcast, Future Legends of Advertising. It's been quite a
(21:39):
pleasure to listen and learn from you both. You're incredibly inspiring.
What a gift you've given to our listeners. Thank you
both so much. Well, that does it for this episode
of the Future Legends of Advertising podcast. I'm Ross Martin
and I'm Hailey Rohmer, and thank you for listening. We'll
be back with another their episode before you know it.
(22:01):
And for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go
to a F dot org.
As the leader, the job is really to make sure
you nurture the people, because the industry will nurture the output.
I love what you said. I think it's a wonderful
way to articulate it. I think I've always looked at
leadership as setting people up for success and creating an
environment that allows them to be as good as they are. Hello,
(00:34):
and welcome to the Future Legends of Advertising podcast featuring
newly inducted members of the American Advertising Federations Hall of
Achievement and those in the Hall of Fame. In this series,
will compare notes, gain insights, and explore the future of
the advertising industry who never before heard conversations between those
who are shaping it. You'll meet industry icons like Bozoma St. John's,
(00:57):
Daisy Exposita, Lah, Deborah Wall, and future ones, including leaders
from the most impactful brands, agencies, and media platforms in
the world. We're your host, Hailey Rohmer and Ross Martin.
Now let's meet the legends. I'll introduce Whenda first. The
entire podcast can be my introduction of Window because that
(01:18):
I'm not that old and so as everyone knows, Whenda
as the vice chair of Media Link as the former
chief sales Officer for Yahoo, bringing Yahoo's sales from seven
hundred million back in the day in just five or
six years all the way up to six billion that
when that was unheard of, and creating possibly one of
(01:40):
the best sales teams ever. When she was at Yahoo,
co CEO and president of Martha Stewart Living on the Media,
which is the first time any of us ever heard
the word on the media, chief Internet Officer that was
like a thing right when the Internet was like the
super Highway. And then a founding executive of team member
for Double Click. The career trajectory of Wenda Harris Millard
(02:05):
is just astounding. But what's I think meant so much
more is that even while you were that busy having
that career you have, you managed to devote so much
of your time and your heart to this industry and
to the community. And you did that in lots of
different ways. You continue to do that. You were the
chair of the I a B. You were the president
(02:27):
of the Ad Club. You didn't just get into the
Hall of Fame last year, but when you got into
the Hall of Fame, you were also awarded the David
Bell Award for industry service, and then you also serve
on the personal board of directors for dozens of the
best executives in the in the world who count on
Wenda for career guidance and advice. So I don't know
(02:50):
how Outstands reduced this legend, but she's here on our show,
and please welcome to the podcast, Wenda, Harris Millard. Thank you, Ross,
so so appreciate that. I'm really happy to be here.
You know, it's pretty incredible, of course, just running down
the list of accomplishments that you've had, Wenda, And I'm
(03:10):
sure that if we double clicked on all of that, no,
no pun intended going back to your past, but if
we were to do that, there would be so much
more to fill in in between what Ross just said.
And what I love about the essence of this conversation
is taking what you've done and pairing it with someone
like Crystal, who, in her at the sort of midway
(03:31):
point of her career, has already achieved so much, and
in part because someone like you has made it possible
for her to get where she is and to have
had some of the opportunities that she has had. So
I am incredibly excited to introduce our Advertising Hall of
Achievement inductee today, Crystals are anner. For those of you
(03:53):
listening who do not know Crystal, She's currently Chief Growth
Officer at Thinks, the period it and bladder leaked absorbing
underwear company Crystal Joint Thinks, though with many creative awards
under her belt, including having tripled the number of effectiveness
awards for B B d Oh during her time as
the chief marketing officer over there. Crystal is known around
(04:16):
the industry for reinforcing the idea that doing good is
good for business, which we love. And as I said,
at this sort of midway point in her career, she's
already done so much to give back to the community
that we're all working at. Crystal is a member of Maker,
she was the Time's Up signatory, She's a founding member
of Chief, and she was named to add ages forty
(04:37):
under forty. And I think the reason is, or what
people would point to, is because she's long focused on
building teams that foster equity and create opportunity for everyone,
which of course is in line with what you've done
and how you feel. Whenda, we see the a h
o A as a launch pad for massive future career
and industry endeavors. And I am certain that Crystali be
(04:58):
one of those people that take this ball and runs
really far with it. So welcome Crystal, thank you for
joining us. Oh, it's an honor to be here. Um
it's just been an incredibly humbling experience. And um, you know,
without it, I wouldn't be able to have coffee virtually
with Winda. So it's all been we would Why don't
we start with Weinda, I think Wendy, you may remember
(05:19):
back in the day that you got into the Hall
of Fame. Do you remember when you were inducted into
the Hall of Achievement and what that felt like? I
absolutely do. Ross. Uh it was quite a few years back,
I think, Um, I believe the Hall of Achievement at
that time. Uh, I think I was the second class.
So it was all very very new, and we were
(05:43):
all excited about it because we had a feeling even
back then that we were about to become a part
of a very long term community. And I think what's
wonderful about it is that that has proved to be true.
There's a an incredible sense of camaraderie among the recipients
(06:04):
of that Hall of Achievement award, and I think I
had that sense right away. I mean, this is one
of the things that I love about this business is
that the people in this business care about each other
and the industry in a way that I don't think
it's really true of many other industries. So to be
acknowledged as a young leader in an industry that I
(06:26):
so loved and that most people who were in it
really love, it just felt great and it was a
very very exciting moment. Do you have any words of
wisdom for Crystal Well, First of all, Crystal, congratulations on
on the upcoming induction, but also on all the all
the things that you have done in the industry and
(06:47):
for the industry that has brought you to to this moment.
So I would say, take a minute, pat yourself on
the back. Job well done, enjoy it, but at the
same time, understand that it now sort of requires of
you a responsibility to a larger group of people to
continue to be the leader that you've already proved that
(07:09):
you are. I think there is a shared sense of
responsibility among this alumni group that we we want to
take care of the industry, and one of the reasons.
I've always loved the Hall of Achievement. It is one
of the most uplifting days of the year, So enjoy that.
But one of the reasons I really love it is
it always gives me a great feeling about the future
(07:34):
of the industry. I always leave that event saying, oh,
we are going to be just fine with people like
Crystal receiving the awards. So I would say, enjoy the day,
but do understand that that with this UM Major Accolade
comes responsibility UM to continue to take care of the
(07:57):
industry UM. And it's people, you know, I think it's
really interesting your your insight you have about how people
that do wellness business are the same people that really
love it, right. I think that is a spirit that
does make our industry particularly magical. And I was just wondering, potentially,
as a lover of the business, is there anything that
(08:18):
you actually hate about it? Right? Is there is there's
something that you're you're hoping sort of this next generation
of leaders will will shed or or leave leave behind.
That is such a fabulous question. No one has ever
asked me that before I grew up in a different era,
one where accountability was not on the front burner, and
(08:43):
it sounds so strange to I think people in the
business now and probably for the past twenty five years
or so, since the digital age came upon us, where
accountability was one of the drivers of its birth. I
would say one of the things that I don't like
about the business is that it's not always taken as
seriously as those of us who work in it take
(09:05):
the responsibility that we have. And so when I was
growing up in this business, it was pretty much all
our all relationship driven, not a lot of accountability. We
we we never even knew how to spell the word
data back then. And I think, you know, over time,
advertising has become advertising and marketing has become much much
(09:29):
more sophisticated, certainly in our in our use of data
and our ability to answer that that old, old old
question about which half of my advertising works. So I
think what I don't like about it is that we
still are sometimes looked upon as a frivolous industry. I mean,
(09:51):
people know, you know, we go to the south of France,
and you know, we go to Las Vegas, and we
do a lot of entertaining and we eat very very well.
So I think, you know, I would wish for us
continued focus on accountability for what we do. And as
I said, I think we we've made some really good progress,
but we have to stay on that. This is a
(10:13):
very very serious business doing serious good, and I think
we we need to sort of carry carry that flag.
You both are obviously trail blazers and two women who
many many women surely look up to, have looked up to,
and will continue to look up to. Can you talk
a little bit about risk taking. I think I was
(10:33):
born with a high risk profile. I have always believed that,
you know, if you're not living on the edge, you're
taking up too much room. Um, And I think I
just I do believe that a lot of this is,
you know, you're born with some of this stuff. I
have a pretty limited attention span, uh, in many many ways,
and I love adventure. I love I love what's new.
(10:56):
I'm also somewhat of a contrarian, so I kind of
like to push the envelope. Like I I loved being
first in the in the digital world because people, you know,
kept saying things to me like, well, when are you
coming back to the real world, because the bubble over
my head is I am in the real world would
be interesting to see when you can catch up and
people who are always saying to me, well, do you
need a job? Do you need an office? This was
(11:18):
at the very beginning when we were starting Double Click,
and I'm like, don't you worry about me. I'm gonna
be fine. Um. So I I am sort of motivated
by the challenges that other people put in front of me,
and I think, you know, I do have a very
high risk profile, but it is a calculated risk in
that sense, you know, sort of leaping this was I
(11:40):
remember it was a headline and at age leaping into cyberspace.
You know, it kind of looked like a risk back
then in but it wasn't really. If you're a student
of the business, you would have known that accountability needed
to enter our world, and digital gave us an opportunity
to finally answer some of these questions of accountability. So,
(12:05):
you know, sure it was very, very high risk. I
had been in the magazine publishing business for twenty years already,
and I gave up a huge job and one that
I really really really liked, but I had to join
the revolution. I just had to. Yeah, that's funny. Um,
I don't know if I was born with a tolerance
for risk, but I was raised in a household that
played a lot of poker um, so I so I
(12:28):
got I got really good at at calculated risk and
understanding the reward if you if you understood the numbers
and had had good sense of humor, you could probably
come up on top. So I don't know if I
was born with it, but I definitely learned it over
over the years. I had built a reputation of being,
you know, a wild feminist. And everyone was like, Hey,
(12:51):
there's this pitch. I don't know if it will be
right for you. Do you want to give it a go?
And I was like, what is it like Barbaie? And
I was like, oh my gosh, I love Barbie right
And everyone was like, oh, we thought it might be
off brand, and I was like, are you kidding. She's
been the president like thirty six times, Like she's inherently
(13:11):
a feminist character. And so I think that's part of it,
which is like maintaining and an optimism and willing to embrace,
you know, the flaws and the ugly to to see
the magic and the sincerity, you know, And I think,
you know, we have to do that with lots of brands,
(13:32):
um and quite frankly each other. I knew that you know,
millennial moms everywhere like myself, for like gool can I
take this to the birthday party? And I thought, if
I do my job right, that will be a no
brainer and you'll want your child to have Barbie. We
just had to get back to the spirit, the DNA
(13:53):
of it. So I think, you know, risk is slightly
just tons of of innate optimism that it will come
out on top if you if you focus on the
bright spots and you know, call out the really ugly
ones as you see it. I want to ask you
both the question, and I would be remiss not to
ask you to talk a little bit about leadership. It's funny.
(14:16):
It's a cliche of the business, right, which is like
it's all about the people, but so much of the
industry celebrates the output, be at the work or the creativity,
like that only manifests because of people, right. It's it's
people's passions, it's people's brains, it's someone putting in the
sweat to get to the idea that it seems that
(14:38):
if we're going to be successful as a business, your
job as a as a leader is to nurture that
that humanity, and once you kind of understand that, it's
the most competitive advantage you have in the industry, being
a good leader just follows because you you become subservient
to making sure that you know, the projects are healthy,
(14:59):
that people are healthy. And so that's always been I
think core to it for me, which is like, you know,
now it's it's really InVogue to say, you know, give
each other grace, But it's like, how there was a
time in this industry where being compassionate and kind to
one another we had to remind each other. And so
I think I think that's been It's like going as
(15:23):
a leader, the job is really to make sure you
nurture the people, because the industry will nurture the output. Right.
I think that's going to make all the difference, especially
in this world and just the amount of volatility and
challenges ahead of us. I love what you said. I
think it's a It's a wonderful way to articulate it.
(15:45):
I think I've always looked at leadership as setting people
up for success and creating an environment that allows them
to be as good as they are. So I think
if if you accept that, um that version of leadership,
then you would agree that people want to be led.
(16:08):
People want to succeed, They love to succeed, they love
to be smart, and they love to be in an
environment where they will succeed. And so I think a
lot of my my time in the in the industry,
at whichever company I've I've been with at the time,
is about finding a way to help people be as
(16:32):
good as they can be. And you know, if if
they're at that company, if we hired them, then I
think they're probably really good at what they do. And
to find teammates for them that will make them successful,
to find managers for them that will make them successful,
to find projects opportunities in the industry certainly, So I think,
(16:53):
you know, to me, that's what leadership really is. It's
finding a way to create a business environment where people
can be as successful as they're destined to be. That's amazing.
I wonder you know, what's been very clear to us
as people have heard that we're going to do this
podcast and that we're having these conversations with legends and
(17:18):
the next generation. What's been made very clear to us
is that there are tens of thousands of people who
are already looking at the two of you and and
asking themselves like how do I get there? Like how
do I how do I do this? How do I
get to a moment like crystals having right now? If
you could look back to your your younger self and
(17:40):
remind yourself of one thing, what would you tell your
younger self? What would you say that would have changed
the course of your history. I think that I have
always believed that being a student of the business, like
forever being a student of the business. I still consider
myself a student of the bus. No, it keeps you relevant,
(18:02):
it keeps you smart, it keeps you challenged. So I
think my younger self would have said, don't never believe
your own press releases, and keep studying, keep keep being
a student of the business, and and share what you've learned.
(18:23):
You know, be be the student, but also be the teacher. Um.
But in being the teacher, don't lose your ability to learn.
So I think that's probably what I what I would
have said. I think it's actually what I did say too.
It's so funny. It really resonates with me because I
think mine is like this idea of like you have
(18:45):
to think fast and slow. And I definitely my younger
self still am wildly impatient. Um. But I think back
at the people that had to deal with me in
the early days, and I owe them all apologies, and
I hope they're listening. Um. So impatient and and and
I think the industry encourages fast thinking. You know, good
(19:06):
in the room says the right thing, really witty. Um.
But it was in the slow thinking that I did
my most meaningful work. And in that is just this
willingness to keep doubting and unlearning and unbelieving what what
you think? Right? Um? And you know there's that great
(19:28):
Adam Grant quotes, don't believe everything you think. It's like yes, yes,
And that's the curiosity. I think that that you're talking
about window right, which is like, you know, lean into
that curiosity, question yourself, question others, keep learning and digging
deep um. And I also think it's what energizes you
and gives you the stamina to have decades and decades
(19:52):
of success because that curiosity keeps it fun and interesting
because you are learning and you are grow ing. Um. Otherwise, gosh,
this would be a really exhausting business. I think I
don't want this episode to end. I think Haley and
I could do this forever, but um we're not allowed.
(20:12):
So we are going to end strong here and give
you a chance to just offer a parting message to
one another. When what would you like to say to Crystal?
I would say, so far, so great. What you have
already accomplished is so inspiring, and your belief in yourself
(20:33):
keep it strong, stay strong on that, do everything that
you can to live up to the responsibility that you
have earned in being a young leader in this business.
And I wish you enormous continued success and Crystal some
parting words as we conclude this podcast episode for Whenda
Harris Mallard, I mean thank you. I think not only
(20:55):
as a female leader in the business, but also just
as a fellow entraion. The idea that that you saw
an opportunity and you didn't just believe in it, you
made it real. That is really in inspiring. You know.
I think so many of us in this business are
makers and connectors and you've just built an entire career
(21:18):
on that. So it's impressive. And if if you know
what's next, please tell me, because I would love to
be be at the edge of the next revolution um
and you seem to have a really really good knack
for calling them. Thank you both for being guests on
our podcast, Future Legends of Advertising. It's been quite a
(21:39):
pleasure to listen and learn from you both. You're incredibly inspiring.
What a gift you've given to our listeners. Thank you
both so much. Well, that does it for this episode
of the Future Legends of Advertising podcast. I'm Ross Martin
and I'm Hailey Rohmer, and thank you for listening. We'll
be back with another their episode before you know it.
(22:01):
And for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go
to a F dot org.
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