October 10, 2023 • 46 mins
Many women of color have experienced the double-edged sword of being first and/or only. This week, listen in on an enlightening conversation with CEO of Mercy Corps and the only African American woman at the help of a major international aid and development organization, Tjada D’Oyen McKenna. Tjada and I talk about snacks (obviously!), tips for women of color working in the nonprofit space, and how to support forgotten causes.
To get transcripts, links, and details from each episode, check out the show notes. To continue your support of the podcast and my work, become a member of my Patreon community where you can get access to archived episodes, bonus episodes, and behind the scenes content. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter, for podcast clips, poetry quotes and random quips. For information on how to book me to speak or perform at an event, visit amenabrown.com. Thanks for listening and thanks for your support!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to a new episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And y'all know, I get so excited
about bringing people into our living room, so I want
you to welcome nonprofit thought leader and chief executive Officer
of Mercy Corps, Jada McKenna.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you. It's so much fun to be here. I'm
so excited. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Jada. I just I have a lot that I want
to dive into with you today because I had a
long time in my career that I worked in nonprofit
space from the artist end, if that makes sense. So
a lot of partnering with organizations and different nonprofit brands,
and so there is so much about your work that
I think will be really valuable to our listeners and
(01:21):
especially to the women of color in this community. But
as always, Jada, we got to start with snackt. The
premise of Her with Amina Brown comes from the way
that I have gathered in my own living room with
my girlfriends. And it depends on our schedules, it depends
on our budgets how we gather. But a lot of
(01:42):
times the most free place is your home, and sometimes
you have things you want to discuss that maybe the
restaurant is not the thing. Maybe for sure the coffee
shop is not the place you want to be. And
so a girlfriend might call me and said, girl, I
need to come over, and I'm like, I got you
and she's like, what kind of things you got to there?
I'm like, I got some hummus I opened up five
(02:02):
days ago. I got some popcorn we can pop and
she'll be like, I got a couple of bell peppers.
See you then. So we kind of bring our little
snacks together. When you gather with your friends, what is
your favorite snack to bring or are you a person
who likes to make a snack. What are the vibes?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
So, unfortunately, I'm not very gifted in the kitchen, and
that is a source of a lot of stress. So
I am one to go to a store. So depending
on the type of gathering it is. If it's really casual,
just an afternoon and we're gonna eat a little junk food,
I will bring Swedish fish, which is a childhood favorite
and something that I may not get to indulge in
(02:42):
all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
If it is something closer to.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
A meal or a little heavier, I might go find
some chicken wings or chicken drum MutS or some small
pieces of fried chicken where that I can indulge and
use this comfort food for our girls, Chap.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I really respect these choices. I first of all want
to just speak out loud that bot snacks are delicious,
you know, like big respect to the people who are
able to make a snack, but that's what the store
is there for, and.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Kudos to them.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And I'm jealous, and I wish I knew my way
around to do it, but the amount of stress that
would cause me would have me not going to the home.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So I just I just use the store.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I mean, I've had a girlfriend really bring like granola
bars to my house because she was just like I
had this left over from something my kid had. I'm
just here and I think we just we want to
welcome each other in these times.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
We have to welcome that, we have to celebrate. Not
everything has to be a production. We put way too
much pressure on ourselves as it is in our day
to day lives, and sometimes we just need the friendship
and the company more than the accoutrements.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Is that part. And I want to thank you for
bringing up the Swedish fish because there are those kind
of childhood snacks, candies type of thing that like, you
wouldn't normally, I mean, unless I was having a really
bad day, I wouldn't normally like I'm gonna walk in
a store and buy these, and exactly you got to again.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
They made me smile every time I have them.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm sure every gathering you brought them to there have
been people who were like, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It is definitely not the typical thing.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I really respect that, Jada. I want to thank you
for doing that. Okay, I want to talk to you.
Oh y'all. I have so many things I'm trying to ask,
Jada and like, and we cannot be having a three
hour interview today, so I'm trying to like get my
life together. But I want to talk about your career
in nonprofit field. I know that we have a lot
of people in our community who also work in nonprofit field.
(04:40):
So when you graduated from college initially, though, did you
imagine that your career would end up where it is now?
What was what was young Jada's vision for what you
thought you'd be doing in life compared to like where
you ended up.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, so I am in the perfect place where I
was always meant to be. I had no idea what
that looked like, and I certainly didn't expect it to
be this. So I went to college. I did a
program called Inroads out of high school. I don't know
if everyone's spilled in Roads. It's a program. I still
remember the mission TELP Talented Minority Youth Interfields in Business.
(05:17):
So I had my little business internships. Both of my
parents were public servants, and so I was very taken
by this world of corporate America and like these big
companies that owned all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So I when.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I left college, I really felt like I was headed
for a business career in corporate America. I wanted to
go as high as I could go, and then in
my free time, I wanted to be able to do
things that impacted Africa.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And the community.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I never dreamed of pulling that all together in my career,
but I thought I for sure was.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Headed up a very steep corporate ladder.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Wow. I love this part of your story too, because
I think the the person we are when we are
young and starting out our career, it's sort of like
can be a twofold experience. On the one hand, sometimes
we do have some ideas germinating with us about what
we think we'd want to do, and we may think
is that realistic? Is that like a thing? And then
sometimes we have like a thought of what that is,
(06:17):
and then our actual journey takes us on these winding
roads that sort of lead us down this path that
we wouldn't have imagined, but to your point, places us
exactly where we need it to be. In your bio,
it says you are the only African American woman at
the helm of a major international aid and development organization.
(06:39):
This is a really powerful thing, and on this podcast
we talk a lot about the pluses and also the
hardships of being first, of being only. In some ways
it is it is absolutely an important moment to kudos
(06:59):
to you for all of the path that had to
be carved out, all of the trail you had to blaze.
In a sense that will mean a lot to a
lot of black folks coming behind you, to a lot
of people of color coming behind you. And we know
that that's not easy. It's not easy to be only generally,
(07:20):
and especially to be only when you are in a
leadership position. There are a lot of black women and
women of color who are struggling in the problematic structure
of a lot of international aid organizations. What would you say?
I mean, I know if we could talk about this
for days and days, but what would you say, are
some beginning things that need to be done to change
(07:43):
that problematic structure that is sort of having some barriers
as to why there are not more folks of color
that are at the helm of these organizations.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Is it okay if I do this in ti parts?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Because I've been spending a lot of time thinking about
the trauma.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Of being the only or the first in a lot
of different situations and how that's manifested.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
So I'd like to talk about that a little bit,
And then I want to talk about in my industry specifically.
I am proud to say that I'm the only one
serving right now. I'm not the first. The first is
our wonderful six sister, doctor Helene Gail, who is where
you are in Atlanta as the president of Spellman and.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
College now just my alma mater, so shout out to
doctor Gale yes.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And my mother's alma mater as well.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And Helene Gail was the CEO of Care, which is
also based in Atlanta for about a decade starting probably
in around two thousand and six or two thousand and seven.
And I have to say that when I took this job,
when it was announced, one of the first calls I
got was from Helene Gail, and she checked up on
me regularly during my first year. So very grateful for
(08:55):
people that showed it was possible, really disappointed that I'm
the only now and since Helene, there really hasn't been
another one at the helm of a large international development
organization like Mercy Cord. And the reason I want to
talk a little bit about the Choum I think there
have been a lot of times in my life that
I've been the only There are parts of elementary school
(09:17):
in this space now, and as I get deeper in
my leadership journey, you know, sometimes I realize the things
that that does to me mentally that that may not
do to my peers, and and at times I'm I
can be a little resentful of that. Right So, especially
now you know, we're a few years after George Floyd's
(09:38):
still in the midst of defending why Black Lives Matter.
I've had to address racial issues at work, and it
bothers me that I have to stop and think, are
people going to see this as me just being self absorbed,
but that these are like real conversations that have to
be had. Just because I have this lived experience should
(10:00):
make me more hesitant to speak about them than other people,
And in fact, I feel like it's my duty to
do that. But on the other hand, that is like
the tax and the burden that so many of us
have as one of few in these situations. So it's
this layer of responsibility and an opportunity that our non
(10:25):
people of color colleagues don't have to contend with. And
there's always been this extra tax in addition to just
being a black one, and there's always been this extra
tax on my life of being that like, oh, gosh,
I need to make sure I mentor people.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So I'm not the only one.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Next gosh, I need to help these people prepare for interviews.
We can get more black people in the next class.
Like there's just always that extra that we are called
to do or that we feel a sense of obligation
to do because of.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Our history in our community.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So I think we should just acknowledge that and make
space for ourselves and also knowledge that sometimes that's really
frustrating and we get angry and it's not fair, and
it's how we choose to live. In my sector in particular,
it is it's a difficult space. So I work in
(11:13):
international in the international development space.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And if you think of the history of this space, that.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
The classic model was the white westerner, so like European
British person going to quote unquote save some people who
are often black or.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Brown in another part of the world.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
And and even if you look at like missionary activity
and all that, it's all from this. The optics of
the framing have been around saving and generosity. So that's
that's one problematic element of it. The second, too, is
if you think of who in society has the opportunity
(11:59):
to do that saving. So I'm really fortunate in my
life I have I have my mother has.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
A first cousin and her husband.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
They were in the second class of Peace Corps volunteers
ever they served in northern Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They had that. When I came out of college, I
have student loans.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I was not going into these courts I wanted I
needed to go earn money.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I wanted to earn money.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
And so just who has had these opportunities to travel
internationally and to do this work, like who when you know,
when we're applying for these jobs out of college, who
are the people that say, oh, I spent a semester
in this country or oh, my parents took me to
live here. So there are there are those imbalances. And
I think the third is just when it is a
(12:43):
situation of providing something or thinking that you are it's
the way that people that have been like the objects
of those things have been received or taken. So there
so there have been multiple layers, which unfortunately has led
to oftentimes these organizations are being run or not run.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
By people of color.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
We do see more women, but before you didn't see
a lot of women historically either and sometimes not really
taken into account or not seeing the people that we're
serving as equals in this journey, or this sense of
paternalism as though we know it's best and they don't.
(13:29):
And it's really important now to really turn that upside down.
And I'm really proud that at Mercy Core that's part
of how we're trying to do it. But it's even
the optics in the language. So for a while, we
used to say that people were beneficiaries of our work.
Right now and now now we taught we call them
participants right and their participants and partners and creators and owners,
(13:52):
and these are joint things.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Volunteerism is something.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So when I graduate from college, I did one of
these programs that now I consider a bit problematic, where
I was coming out of college an idiot and I
volunteered in quotes in a really remote area of South
Africa and we were building a school.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I had never built a thing in the day of
my life.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So in hindsight, I mean, I think we should think
of those things as like exchanges or cultural exchanges, because
honestly I brought no skills to that, maybe was taking
away work from a local person that should have been
doing that work, and like, who the heck am I
to show up as a savior? So you know, it's
(14:35):
like the optics in the frame. So we've worked, we're
working really hard to really strip that language and that
way of thinking from our vocabulary. You know, I guess
I had mentioned the participant thing earlier, you know, not
like really conscious of like savior things, very conscious of
the images.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
So I came of age in the.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Eighties where you'd see these ads with African ChIL with
like flies in their eyes, right, like what we now
call poverty porn.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
We do not do that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You will see in images and images that we put out.
It is people who have agency over their lives, who
were in positions of strength, coming out of difficult situations,
and just really conscious of not promoting that imagery, really
conscious of making sure that we do have equity, that
(15:27):
you know, more than eighty five percent of our teams
from the communities where we work, trying to get people
from the regions from those countries into leadership positions in
those places, but also in the organization as a whole,
and just being really thoughtful. Our largest groups of expats
these days are not Americans or Europeans or aust Giants.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It is Kenyans.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's it's Kenyans and Ethiopians and people from Nepal and
people from India. So really trying to evolve that and
then also really evolving, like really paying attention to the
power structures in our work and making sure that we
are approaching things in very humble ways and working with
local organizations and local leadership, and that it is something
(16:10):
where that community has more of a voice than we do,
and all kinds of mechanisms for people to speak up
when they feel like that's not happening. None of this
is perfect. This is all evolving. It's still under a
dynamic where you do have mostly money flowing from the
global north to the global South. But that are just
ways to do that vastly better than our sector has
(16:33):
done in the past, and that's where we're very committed
to doing.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I love hearing this. I mean, first of all, it
gives me a lot of hopeful feelings and hopeful thoughts
that change is possible. You know, it's possible for us
in our various fields to recognize while the way we've
been doing that is a problem and we don't have
to say, ah, it was just the times we can
(17:27):
actually say and we're going to stop, and here's the
new ways we can learn, how to partner with others,
how to use language in more equitable ways, how to
use our imaging and photography in more equitable ways. I
think that is so powerful, Jada, Because I am a
kid who grew up in church, I have been on
more missions trips than I can count. I actually thought
(17:50):
to myself, almost all, if not all, of my international
travel was related to sort of volunteerism in a way.
And as I got older, I just started to think
like I didn't get to see those countries or those
communities from a more holistic view, because all I'm seeing
(18:14):
is what I'm coming there to help to fix to
whatever those things are. And there is a more especially
I feel for many of us who are American, there
is a humility that we need when we are going
into these spaces. It is not to assume that the
people there don't know the things. We have arrived and
(18:35):
we know the things. It's really to find yourself if
you are in this position to arrive to say I'm
here to learn from you, I'm here to partner with
you in the ways that are helpful to you. But
I have had more experiences of the other side of that,
where you look back and you're like, yikes, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
You look at the pictures that you took and you're like, oh,
maybe look great. And that's why I love the term exchange,
because you know, it's it's not just it's like what
are we learning from them? Like, we're going through these
places to learn as well. And I think a lot
of times in those situations it's like no we're taking
(19:14):
this great thing and you know, we're learning, and they
have a lot of amazing things to teach and to share,
and just because something's different doesn't make it bad or wrong.
And I think sometimes that gets really missed on these trips.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So I do I encourage.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
On the other hand, they're great ways for people to
get out and to learn things they would learn. So
I do just encourage people to be to really investigate
the organizations that they're going with and and make sure
that the values of that organization align with their reasons
and what they hope to get.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, that's really important. I want to talk about black
women and women of color who work in the international
aid space, and I am very interested to hear your
thoughts about this because I know that there are people
in our community listening who are working in these spaces,
even some of them as volunteers as well, you know,
(20:12):
in some of these spaces, right, And I think sometimes
there is this element. I'll say, for me, having done
some work in nonprofit world, having had nonprofit clients, worked
with nonprofit events, I think sometimes it's a part of
it when we are entering a space where we're working
with an organization that is you know, you know air
quotes here doing good. A part of why we do
(20:34):
that sometimes is coming from this good place in our heart.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
We want to affect change. We want to see people
who are under resource have the resources that they deserve,
you know. So we sort of enter the space with
our hearts open and our hands open, and we're here
to do these things. And I think because we're in
a do good environment, we are thinking and hoping that
(20:59):
everyone else there is also here to be open hearted.
It is also here to sort of gather communally while
we try to do all these things. Whereas some of
the black women and women of color I know, for example,
who work in corporate America, there are certain bottom lines
and certain types of things we expect in corporate America
(21:20):
because it's pretty clear a lot of us that have
worked in corporate that this is about making money. You know,
this is about making money. This is about I'm you know,
maybe I'm here trying to make money. We know, the
CEO here trying to make money, you know, the c suite,
everybody is here, from the C suite down to the
entry level position because we're here trying to make money.
So I think there are certain things when we're in
(21:40):
corporate that we just sort of expect to be cutthroat,
and sometimes we expect a certain environment. And I think
some of us walked into international aid, walked into nonprofit
space thinking in some ways maybe we were entering a
bit of a utopia, maybe it wasn't like corporate America,
and then we got inside and we're like, yikes, some
(22:01):
things I needed to think a bit differently, right, So
I would love to hear from your experience. What are
some tips you would give to black women and women
of color who may be in nonprofit space, they may
be working in an international aid space, they may be
considering work in these areas. What are the tips and
things you would say? You know now, like if you
(22:22):
could look back at yourself starting that, you would say
to your young self, Hey, think about this, do these things?
What are some thoughts you.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Have on that you The way you preface this question
is it gets to my number one piece of advice, right,
because I think it's easier. You know, when you've walk
into a corp, a profit making company, you're not expecting
them to have all these values. You're not expecting a
certain treatment and I think that's one of the first
things I tell people is to protect their heart because
(22:51):
all of these are organizations that suffer from the same
societal things that every place I'll suffer, right, So people
with their unconscious biases. People where there's going to be favoritism,
sometimes people are going to disagree or not act in
the most charitable way or the ways that are consistent
with the values of the organization. So I think being
(23:15):
prepared for that and not letting that because I think
when your heart is hurt on that level, it becomes
even it sends you down a much deeper spiral, right,
and it's a lot harder to overcome, and that might
be become the animating thing. So I always encourage people
to walk in with that same sense of, for lack
(23:35):
of a better word, defensiveness, right, walk in knowing what
you're worth, what you're supposed to be doing, and expecting
that kind of treatment, and if it doesn't come or
things don't happen, to not be hurt by it, but
to push back, right and also realize we're in an
organization with these dynamics. One thing I absolutely hate about
(24:01):
the nonprofit sector, or there's this mentality sometimes, and I
think the public does it as well. The organizations that
you should accept far less pay or you should not
because this is good work.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I had a boss who used to brag about never
taking pay raises.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Well, that man lived off of his trust fund. Okay,
I do not need to have a trust.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Fund to work there, right, So it's like, pay me
what I'm worth and what you know, pay me fairly. Yes,
the pay skill is not going to be the same,
but pay me fairly. Me being here and bringing my
talents to this is not a gift to the world,
like we're all here to do good. But if you
and I'd say this for organizations too, if you're trying
(24:43):
to do good work, if you're trying to be professional
and be efficient, then that also means you need to
have professionals who understand what they're doing. Otherwise you're kind
of wasting people's money and energy. So I think, kind
of know who you are, know what you're worth, and
don't be scared to leave. If you can't resolve those
(25:04):
issues within the culture, know that you need to go
someplace else. And I think because nonprofits because there aren't
bonuses to give away, or you know, because there aren't
some of these other incentives. Sometimes people will put up
with things that they shouldn't, and sometimes organizations will allow
a certain level of toxicity to emerge kind of accidentally,
(25:29):
either because of favoritism or just because it's like this
assumption everyone's here to do good work.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So I don't want to tell people when they're not.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And so I think just us maintaining our standards, especially
because when we leave, like we need to still be
competitive and do things outside as well. Right, So, but
but walking being strong and knowing who you are and
and you know and and be prepared to walk if
it's not if it's not treating you in.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That way, Come on, Jada, don't be scared to leave
is the part that really touched me. That's the part
that really touched me. Because I am a person who
enjoys work connected to my values, for better or for worse.
In my career, that's been true of me. So when
I've been in work situations where I'm like, oh, this
(26:21):
doesn't really connect with me, I have a hard time
sort of like disconnecting from that.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Right, I had to accept there was a place I
left that had some real race issues underlying things.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And a lot of issues, and at some point I realized, wait,
isn't this is just not for me? I am not
the issue here, right Like who I am is very clear.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
This is not a space for me, and that's unfortunate
because they're trying to do a lot of work for
people that look like me, and I will call it
out and I will try to get them to be better,
but ultimately the best thing for my sanity and for
a better use of my skills is to walk away. Yeah,
And so sometimes I think too will take things personally.
(27:08):
It's just hard when it's really close to your heart
and the work, it's harder to let go. It's harder
not to take it personally. And I think it's okay
to acknowledge that some environments are just not for me
and to try to move into spaces that hour that
we can make ours.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I also feel that
it's so powerful that you're speaking to the empowerment of
saying this may not be for me, and in that case,
it is okay for me to walk away, because I
think there are a lot of folks of color, queer folks,
disabled folks that end up working in these types of
(27:48):
spaces that then are made to feel like, oh, well,
you're there for a reason, you're supposed to fix it
from the inside out. And then people who already have
all this other stuff on them when they walk into
the workplace are now being tasked with additional work and
additional things that were not even a part of the
(28:09):
job that they were hired to do. And I think
there is such power in saying, first of all, it
is not my job to come in here and fix
your entire organization from the inside out. If you wanted that.
There is a fee you can pay for consultants. There
is a fee you can pay for people who do
that type of infrastructural work with an organization. But you
(28:33):
don't hire me for this position I've been hired. And
then say, well, because you're black or because you're from
a marginalized group, now it's also your job to help
us learn how to be less racist, or help us
learn how to be less homophobic.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
You know, it's just and I warned people.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I say, you know, I did all the things right
I was on.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Like the black employee things I volunteer.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
But I also tell people like now, I know that
I would not take a diversity, equity and inclusion job
because it is too painful for me to see wrong.
It's just too painful for me. And so there's an
emotional toll that it will take on me that where
I cannot do it, other people can. And that's something
(29:19):
I warned people, even with these employee groups and other things,
I'm like, this is volunteer labor. You know, people are
not going make sure that you're doing really well at
your own job first, because people are going to think
this is like fun for you, right, or it's not
the real extra thing when it is. And so when
(29:40):
you can't negotiate that or just just know that and
take into account where you are in your whole life
and your whole being and if.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's what you want to be doing with yourself.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
And also and I also challenge the other employers to
be like, hey, like at the end of the day,
I think we've all learned, like black people, we're not
the ones to fix racism benefit from it, Like we're.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Not the ones practicing it, you know. It's so you know,
the people that are.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Need to also need to take accountability and really own it.
And so looking at ways to make sure others are
facing that burner or accepting it. And if they're not,
if people are just turning the work back on you,
then you also have a sign that they're not serious.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, that they're not serious people. Jada A word that's yes,
that's a word. I want to talk about Black women
in leadership and how we care for ourselves. I have
a lot of Black women in my sort of personal
life that are my friends. And then of course I
feel like all of us as a black women also
have the Black women that I would say are our colleagues. Right,
(30:43):
they're our friends, but they're also in our field too,
so they know a bit about like the work we're doing.
And this is this is a constant conversation I think
as black women in leadership, we you know, anyone in
leadership has like you have the things you know, you
may have family things that you've got going on. You've
got your own personal life to drink water and breathe
and et cetera. But I find that a lot of
(31:04):
the Black women in my life that I know personally
and professionally, we have our jobs, we have our families,
we have other community work that we have going. We
may have family members or people in our lives that
we are caring for, whether that's our children, parents.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Or interview and going to the hospital to figure out
next steps for my mother's care.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Speak to speak on it.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You know, It's like we have all these things, which
means when we are in leadership positions where our responsibilities
are high at our jobs, it requires even more care
from us for ourselves. What would you say, are some
things in this season of life that are helping you
(31:47):
care for yourself, you know, with all that you may
carry in your life.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah, I think there are two things I really focus on,
and obviously I'm always taking ideas because I think this
self care element is critically important to us.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
But one is the relationships. So I am I'm in
a already so skiway to my sores.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I have.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
There's a text tam with my line sisters that we
are on all the time.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
A group of them are out in Alaska at this moment,
So it's just like making sure to take those you know,
to take the trips, to make the time to have
that close network of girlfriends and we're all navigating our
career journeys and supporting each other through it.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Family support. I happen to have a very supportive.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Husband's who's he does a lot and absorbs a lot.
But yeah, I really focus on keeping those relationships that
keep me sane and those people that care about me strong.
The other side, too, is I am forever telling people
to put on your life jacket first. So I've gotten
much better over the years at saying no, right because
(32:54):
there are things I can't. I just acknowledge that I
can't do everything at the same time, and I it's
you know, And so there are times I just have
to say no, like no, I can't be the school
mom for this, No, I can't do this. And I've
gotten really comfortable saying that because I just need the
time and space to myself for my own to be
(33:16):
the best that I need to be everywhere else, I
have to say no to a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, that's a really it's a really practical thing you said.
And on one hand, sometimes it is just hard to
say no. And on the other hand, the times I have,
I'm like, whoo, that was freeing. I just don't have
to go to that.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I you don't have to do the things dreading it
like why did I say yes? And it's just like,
why am I putting that stress on myself?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Right? Yeah, but it all comes from the.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Optic of really like putting yourself, making sure that you're
putting yourself first and thinking of it, and that you
have people around you who are pointing out when you
are failing at that.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think I've been a
person and I would say this is true of many
of us as black women. Is well, I think I've
been a person who loves to sort of give love externally.
It's like, I love to like support the people in
my life. I love to give to them. I love
to be nurturing to them. And my therapist was like,
you know you your own best friend too, write like
(34:14):
you know that energy you're giving to people like give
It's not that it's bad that you want to do that,
but give it to you too. You know, your girlfriend
has surgery and you will go to her house and
make soup for her and do these things. It's wonderful
that you do it. Would you get the soup for
you or would you let someone else make the soup
(34:37):
for you? And so I think that also helps us
in what you were saying too, of just building building
community with people who care about who we are, not
just what we do, that we matter to them in
full that they're gonna look at you and say, if
you don't go to sleep good night, I do not
want to see you at no meetings, no events, no
(34:58):
more go to eat a vegetable. People in your life
that want that kind of care for you. It's just beautiful.
So I love that you brought that up there.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
No, it's it's it's I travel a lot for my work, obviously,
and it's almost all international.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
One of my colleagues is really good.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
It just like she'll build in the extra half day
to go get the massage, to do the thing, and
I'm always usually just rushing home. I need to get home,
but you know, and she's encouraged me, and so sometimes
I do build in the time, like look, I need
this afternoon, or I need to do something nice, so
I'm not just in and out of places and just
you know, it could be anywhere in the world and
(35:36):
not even paying attention. Right.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Oh, I love that. Okay, I have two more questions
because y'all know I could really talk to Jada for.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We go to your living room.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It's so cal Oh, my gosh, okay, I want to
talk about how we support international aid. Are we are,
on the one hand, having been a person who sort
of grew I've been around long enough now, Jada, that
we grew up without the internet in part, right, okay, right,
(36:06):
you know, before my Space and whatever that is, So
what you knew needed support? There were some things you
just didn't know because we didn't have as much access,
especially here in America. We didn't have as much access
to what was happening internationally all the time. Whereas now
we have social media. You have all these things, and
(36:26):
we talk a lot about, you know, compassion fatigue in
a way that people are just like, what what what
should I care about? What should I support? What would
be you know, your thoughts you would give folks. That
are just practical things we can think about as we
are reading the news and watching our our I'm still
going to say, Twitter, I'm sorry, y'all. That's just how
it's gonna be. So watching our tweets. Sorry, whatever I
(36:48):
may whatever I may say, ain't unapplying to me. Is
still Twitter. So we're like reading our tweets, We're seeing
the things that are coming across hashtags, you know, we're
trying to think about what can we do, and sometimes
in our feeling overwhelmed, then we either don't do anything,
we're not sure how to take in what we're reading.
What would be your thoughts about that as it relates
to how we can be global citizens in the sins.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
There are a couple of things I will say about that.
I think one really making sure that we are fighting
the narrative in our hearts. So for an assistance, what
we consider aid is less than one half of one
percent of the US budget. For those who are Americans
listening to this, it's really easy to get caught up
and like, look at all the money that's going for this,
(37:34):
or why are they giving all this money the Ukrainians.
We have to start at home. There's a lot we
do at home. Americans are very generous at home. We
also have social safety nets that just may not exist
in some other places. Right Like, virtually every single place
my organization does work, there is not social security, there's
not unemployment, there aren't medical facilities near them, you know people,
(37:57):
So the level of safety net is different. And so
we have very desperately poor places in the US that
need support, and there are places in other countries that
may be even more soft. So it's not an or,
it's an and right. And I think especially when you
go to these places and spend time these these people
(38:18):
are you and me. A lot of times they look
like us. They have the same dreams, they want better
lives for their children, they care about their family. These
are really and so I like to think of it
as like, how do we just empower everyone to be
able to self actualize and be their best self? So
I would fight this narrative of only at home or
(38:40):
we give too much to everyone else, because.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You know, the numbers are very skewed. The second thing
is look at the full picture of need.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Right. So there's a lot of attention right now to Ukraine,
which Ukrainians definitely deserve the support. There are lots of
crises around the world that everyone deserves that same attention
that Theyinians are getting. There has been a crippling drought
in the Horn of Africa, so people in Somalia, parts
of Kenya and Ethiopia suffering and literally starving to death.
(39:11):
Flooding and other parts of the world. So don't forget
about those other places of help. And I would encourage
you to support organizations, even if it's like five dollars
a month or fifty dollars here and there, support organizations
that are working in those places that share your values,
because you know, at the end of the day, the
money that we get, like, we're trying to allocate as
(39:33):
much as we can to those forgotten crises. So for
the people in Somalia, the people in Sudan who need
support now the government's falling apart in these air and
so there's a lot that's on the news, and of
course there's we'll get funding for that, but we're also
trying to get additional funds for all these other places
that just aren't getting the level of attention they deserve.
(39:54):
So stay open hearted, think of it as and not
or and whatever you kind of contribute.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Honestly, even five dollars a month is helpful.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Oh that's so yeah, so practical. Thank you so much
for that, because I think there is a way that
we just can kind of get like, Okay, well there's
so many things. There's so many things. What do I do?
And you can kind of look to the think your
own value system, and as you were saying, you can
find you know, ways. There are various ways that we
can be supportive here, and sometimes for people you're like,
(40:27):
what if I don't have the five dollars, there's a
way you can spread the word. Mean, yeah, spread the.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Words like spread spread posts so that someone else like
might oh, okay, maybe that I can't give right now,
but maybe someone else can give, or just even spreading
awareness of these other things that are not breaking into
mainstream media and realizing like, these things don't have to
be like this. There's so much you talked about the fatigue.
There's so much coming at us that it just all
seems hopeless. They're like, oh, there's always some drought over there.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I'm not doing.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
No, these things do not have to be like this.
People do not have to suffer in these ways, Like
we cannot accept these things as status quo that cannot
get better. Like even if you think of the situation,
individual people's lives can be made better.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, oh, I love that. I want to close with
this question, Jada. I love to talk about joy, and
I especially think it's important when I'm talking to someone
who is doing the type of work that you are.
I know that on the one hand, you know, working
with mercy core and being at the helm of an
organization like this. I know that you and your colleagues
(41:28):
obviously see a lot of hard things. You see a
lot of hard stories. You see a lot of things
that you wish were not the case. And I know
also in your work you see some things that just
make you go, Yes, that is why we're doing what
we're doing. That is what keeps me going. So I
always want to know what is bringing you joy. Is
it a snack, is it some people in your life?
(41:50):
Is it a show you love? Are there parts of
your work Just talk to us about how joy also
plays a role in what keeps you going in your work.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yes, yes, so I do like part of the work
we do is you know, you see people emerge on
the other side, or you see people being able to
do things that they thought they wouldn't be able to do.
That's joy for me in my day to day life.
I have two beautiful sons that are eight and ten
years old. I like just looking at them be happy,
(42:21):
like the black Boy joy. The fact that I'm able
to provide certain things and experiences for them, that's pure joy.
The other thing that's brought even more joy and love
into my life is we are the brand new parents
to two puppies. So we have two dogs under the
age of one right now, and there is you know
that it took a while for us to feel like
(42:42):
we were ready for dogs again in that level of care.
But I could never over estimate the amount of joy
that they have brought to my family and what they
do for me on a bad day.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So I do feel very.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Fortunate that in the midst of it all, I do
get to see the good sides. And uh, and my children,
I mean, they're definitely tough days with the boys, don't
get me.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Sure, sure, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
But but and especially when they are being tough the puppies.
The puppies do it every time. So yeah, fine, yeah,
you're right, we have to find that joy.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
We have to.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, oh I love that, Jada. You you know I've
been I've been on the precipice since the pandemic started.
Of like, he wants to get a dog.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
If you have the time and the energy, I would say,
we got puppies. I would say, go get a dog
that's older and it's already trained. Part has not been joy,
but but yeah, I definitely under undervalue just the therapeutic
effect that sometimes coming in the house and just snuggling
up with one of those dogs has has provided to me.
(43:51):
And watching my boys, like seeing the side of them
that loves those dogs to death, has also just warmed
my heart.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Oh. I love that so much, Jada. Thank you for
sharing not only your story with us, but you gave
us a lot of practical things we can think about
in our work, in the different things we can be
more supportive of the different things that may need our support.
So just thank you for that, and also thank you
for the path that I know you are carving. That
(44:21):
will make this path even hopefully easier, and that will
make people after you have an easier way, they'll be
less barriers because you were there to actually push some
of those things down. So I want to say thank
you for that, and I wish you great naps, Jada.
I wish for you to have delicious snacks.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Thank you. This has been so much fun. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Can I tell you where people can find us? Find me?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yes, I'm want you to tell me everything. How can
the people connect with you? How can the people be
connected with the work you're involved in? Tell us all
the things.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Thank you so personally. I I am on what we.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Like I said, we still call it Twitter, and my
Twitter handle is at and Jada, but my name is
spelled TA, isn't Tom j A d A. So there's
a silent T at the beginning. So if you just
look up Jada T j A d A, you will
find me on Twitter. If you're interested in learning more
about Mercycore, which I hope you do.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We're fabulous. It's at mercycre.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
But M E r C y C O R P
S or www dot mercycore dot org and we'd love
to have your support.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
So thanks everyone.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Thank you so much, Jada, I love that. Go to
all those links everyone, yes, and get you some Swedish fish.
Thank you so much, Jada, thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Thank you, Amena. Have a good one.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Her with Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for
Solographity Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast
Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't
forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to a new episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And y'all know, I get so excited
about bringing people into our living room, so I want
you to welcome nonprofit thought leader and chief executive Officer
of Mercy Corps, Jada McKenna.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you. It's so much fun to be here. I'm
so excited. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Jada. I just I have a lot that I want
to dive into with you today because I had a
long time in my career that I worked in nonprofit
space from the artist end, if that makes sense. So
a lot of partnering with organizations and different nonprofit brands,
and so there is so much about your work that
I think will be really valuable to our listeners and
(01:21):
especially to the women of color in this community. But
as always, Jada, we got to start with snackt. The
premise of Her with Amina Brown comes from the way
that I have gathered in my own living room with
my girlfriends. And it depends on our schedules, it depends
on our budgets how we gather. But a lot of
(01:42):
times the most free place is your home, and sometimes
you have things you want to discuss that maybe the
restaurant is not the thing. Maybe for sure the coffee
shop is not the place you want to be. And
so a girlfriend might call me and said, girl, I
need to come over, and I'm like, I got you
and she's like, what kind of things you got to there?
I'm like, I got some hummus I opened up five
(02:02):
days ago. I got some popcorn we can pop and
she'll be like, I got a couple of bell peppers.
See you then. So we kind of bring our little
snacks together. When you gather with your friends, what is
your favorite snack to bring or are you a person
who likes to make a snack. What are the vibes?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
So, unfortunately, I'm not very gifted in the kitchen, and
that is a source of a lot of stress. So
I am one to go to a store. So depending
on the type of gathering it is. If it's really casual,
just an afternoon and we're gonna eat a little junk food,
I will bring Swedish fish, which is a childhood favorite
and something that I may not get to indulge in
(02:42):
all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
If it is something closer to.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
A meal or a little heavier, I might go find
some chicken wings or chicken drum MutS or some small
pieces of fried chicken where that I can indulge and
use this comfort food for our girls, Chap.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I really respect these choices. I first of all want
to just speak out loud that bot snacks are delicious,
you know, like big respect to the people who are
able to make a snack, but that's what the store
is there for, and.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Kudos to them.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And I'm jealous, and I wish I knew my way
around to do it, but the amount of stress that
would cause me would have me not going to the home.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So I just I just use the store.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I mean, I've had a girlfriend really bring like granola
bars to my house because she was just like I
had this left over from something my kid had. I'm
just here and I think we just we want to
welcome each other in these times.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
We have to welcome that, we have to celebrate. Not
everything has to be a production. We put way too
much pressure on ourselves as it is in our day
to day lives, and sometimes we just need the friendship
and the company more than the accoutrements.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Is that part. And I want to thank you for
bringing up the Swedish fish because there are those kind
of childhood snacks, candies type of thing that like, you
wouldn't normally, I mean, unless I was having a really
bad day, I wouldn't normally like I'm gonna walk in
a store and buy these, and exactly you got to again.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
They made me smile every time I have them.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I'm sure every gathering you brought them to there have
been people who were like, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It is definitely not the typical thing.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I really respect that, Jada. I want to thank you
for doing that. Okay, I want to talk to you.
Oh y'all. I have so many things I'm trying to ask,
Jada and like, and we cannot be having a three
hour interview today, so I'm trying to like get my
life together. But I want to talk about your career
in nonprofit field. I know that we have a lot
of people in our community who also work in nonprofit field.
(04:40):
So when you graduated from college initially, though, did you
imagine that your career would end up where it is now?
What was what was young Jada's vision for what you
thought you'd be doing in life compared to like where
you ended up.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, so I am in the perfect place where I
was always meant to be. I had no idea what
that looked like, and I certainly didn't expect it to
be this. So I went to college. I did a
program called Inroads out of high school. I don't know
if everyone's spilled in Roads. It's a program. I still
remember the mission TELP Talented Minority Youth Interfields in Business.
(05:17):
So I had my little business internships. Both of my
parents were public servants, and so I was very taken
by this world of corporate America and like these big
companies that owned all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So I when.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I left college, I really felt like I was headed
for a business career in corporate America. I wanted to
go as high as I could go, and then in
my free time, I wanted to be able to do
things that impacted Africa.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And the community.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I never dreamed of pulling that all together in my career,
but I thought I for sure was.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Headed up a very steep corporate ladder.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Wow. I love this part of your story too, because
I think the the person we are when we are
young and starting out our career, it's sort of like
can be a twofold experience. On the one hand, sometimes
we do have some ideas germinating with us about what
we think we'd want to do, and we may think
is that realistic? Is that like a thing? And then
sometimes we have like a thought of what that is,
(06:17):
and then our actual journey takes us on these winding
roads that sort of lead us down this path that
we wouldn't have imagined, but to your point, places us
exactly where we need it to be. In your bio,
it says you are the only African American woman at
the helm of a major international aid and development organization.
(06:39):
This is a really powerful thing, and on this podcast
we talk a lot about the pluses and also the
hardships of being first, of being only. In some ways
it is it is absolutely an important moment to kudos
(06:59):
to you for all of the path that had to
be carved out, all of the trail you had to blaze.
In a sense that will mean a lot to a
lot of black folks coming behind you, to a lot
of people of color coming behind you. And we know
that that's not easy. It's not easy to be only generally,
(07:20):
and especially to be only when you are in a
leadership position. There are a lot of black women and
women of color who are struggling in the problematic structure
of a lot of international aid organizations. What would you say?
I mean, I know if we could talk about this
for days and days, but what would you say, are
some beginning things that need to be done to change
(07:43):
that problematic structure that is sort of having some barriers
as to why there are not more folks of color
that are at the helm of these organizations.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Is it okay if I do this in ti parts?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Because I've been spending a lot of time thinking about
the trauma.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Of being the only or the first in a lot
of different situations and how that's manifested.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
So I'd like to talk about that a little bit,
And then I want to talk about in my industry specifically.
I am proud to say that I'm the only one
serving right now. I'm not the first. The first is
our wonderful six sister, doctor Helene Gail, who is where
you are in Atlanta as the president of Spellman and.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
College now just my alma mater, so shout out to
doctor Gale yes.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And my mother's alma mater as well.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And Helene Gail was the CEO of Care, which is
also based in Atlanta for about a decade starting probably
in around two thousand and six or two thousand and seven.
And I have to say that when I took this job,
when it was announced, one of the first calls I
got was from Helene Gail, and she checked up on
me regularly during my first year. So very grateful for
(08:55):
people that showed it was possible, really disappointed that I'm
the only now and since Helene, there really hasn't been
another one at the helm of a large international development
organization like Mercy Cord. And the reason I want to
talk a little bit about the Choum I think there
have been a lot of times in my life that
I've been the only There are parts of elementary school
(09:17):
in this space now, and as I get deeper in
my leadership journey, you know, sometimes I realize the things
that that does to me mentally that that may not
do to my peers, and and at times I'm I
can be a little resentful of that. Right So, especially
now you know, we're a few years after George Floyd's
(09:38):
still in the midst of defending why Black Lives Matter.
I've had to address racial issues at work, and it
bothers me that I have to stop and think, are
people going to see this as me just being self absorbed,
but that these are like real conversations that have to
be had. Just because I have this lived experience should
(10:00):
make me more hesitant to speak about them than other people,
And in fact, I feel like it's my duty to
do that. But on the other hand, that is like
the tax and the burden that so many of us
have as one of few in these situations. So it's
this layer of responsibility and an opportunity that our non
(10:25):
people of color colleagues don't have to contend with. And
there's always been this extra tax in addition to just
being a black one, and there's always been this extra
tax on my life of being that like, oh, gosh,
I need to make sure I mentor people.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So I'm not the only one.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Next gosh, I need to help these people prepare for interviews.
We can get more black people in the next class.
Like there's just always that extra that we are called
to do or that we feel a sense of obligation
to do because of.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Our history in our community.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So I think we should just acknowledge that and make
space for ourselves and also knowledge that sometimes that's really
frustrating and we get angry and it's not fair, and
it's how we choose to live. In my sector in particular,
it is it's a difficult space. So I work in
(11:13):
international in the international development space.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And if you think of the history of this space, that.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
The classic model was the white westerner, so like European
British person going to quote unquote save some people who
are often black or.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Brown in another part of the world.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
And and even if you look at like missionary activity
and all that, it's all from this. The optics of
the framing have been around saving and generosity. So that's
that's one problematic element of it. The second, too, is
if you think of who in society has the opportunity
(11:59):
to do that saving. So I'm really fortunate in my
life I have I have my mother has.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
A first cousin and her husband.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
They were in the second class of Peace Corps volunteers
ever they served in northern Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They had that. When I came out of college, I
have student loans.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I was not going into these courts I wanted I
needed to go earn money.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I wanted to earn money.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
And so just who has had these opportunities to travel
internationally and to do this work, like who when you know,
when we're applying for these jobs out of college, who
are the people that say, oh, I spent a semester
in this country or oh, my parents took me to
live here. So there are there are those imbalances. And
I think the third is just when it is a
(12:43):
situation of providing something or thinking that you are it's
the way that people that have been like the objects
of those things have been received or taken. So there
so there have been multiple layers, which unfortunately has led
to oftentimes these organizations are being run or not run.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
By people of color.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
We do see more women, but before you didn't see
a lot of women historically either and sometimes not really
taken into account or not seeing the people that we're
serving as equals in this journey, or this sense of
paternalism as though we know it's best and they don't.
(13:29):
And it's really important now to really turn that upside down.
And I'm really proud that at Mercy Core that's part
of how we're trying to do it. But it's even
the optics in the language. So for a while, we
used to say that people were beneficiaries of our work.
Right now and now now we taught we call them
participants right and their participants and partners and creators and owners,
(13:52):
and these are joint things.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Volunteerism is something.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So when I graduate from college, I did one of
these programs that now I consider a bit problematic, where
I was coming out of college an idiot and I
volunteered in quotes in a really remote area of South
Africa and we were building a school.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I had never built a thing in the day of
my life.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So in hindsight, I mean, I think we should think
of those things as like exchanges or cultural exchanges, because
honestly I brought no skills to that, maybe was taking
away work from a local person that should have been
doing that work, and like, who the heck am I
to show up as a savior? So you know, it's
(14:35):
like the optics in the frame. So we've worked, we're
working really hard to really strip that language and that
way of thinking from our vocabulary. You know, I guess
I had mentioned the participant thing earlier, you know, not
like really conscious of like savior things, very conscious of
the images.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
So I came of age in the.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Eighties where you'd see these ads with African ChIL with
like flies in their eyes, right, like what we now
call poverty porn.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
We do not do that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You will see in images and images that we put out.
It is people who have agency over their lives, who
were in positions of strength, coming out of difficult situations,
and just really conscious of not promoting that imagery, really
conscious of making sure that we do have equity, that
(15:27):
you know, more than eighty five percent of our teams
from the communities where we work, trying to get people
from the regions from those countries into leadership positions in
those places, but also in the organization as a whole,
and just being really thoughtful. Our largest groups of expats
these days are not Americans or Europeans or aust Giants.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It is Kenyans.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's it's Kenyans and Ethiopians and people from Nepal and
people from India. So really trying to evolve that and
then also really evolving, like really paying attention to the
power structures in our work and making sure that we
are approaching things in very humble ways and working with
local organizations and local leadership, and that it is something
(16:10):
where that community has more of a voice than we do,
and all kinds of mechanisms for people to speak up
when they feel like that's not happening. None of this
is perfect. This is all evolving. It's still under a
dynamic where you do have mostly money flowing from the
global north to the global South. But that are just
ways to do that vastly better than our sector has
(16:33):
done in the past, and that's where we're very committed
to doing.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I love hearing this. I mean, first of all, it
gives me a lot of hopeful feelings and hopeful thoughts
that change is possible. You know, it's possible for us
in our various fields to recognize while the way we've
been doing that is a problem and we don't have
to say, ah, it was just the times we can
(17:27):
actually say and we're going to stop, and here's the
new ways we can learn, how to partner with others,
how to use language in more equitable ways, how to
use our imaging and photography in more equitable ways. I
think that is so powerful, Jada, Because I am a
kid who grew up in church, I have been on
more missions trips than I can count. I actually thought
(17:50):
to myself, almost all, if not all, of my international
travel was related to sort of volunteerism in a way.
And as I got older, I just started to think
like I didn't get to see those countries or those
communities from a more holistic view, because all I'm seeing
(18:14):
is what I'm coming there to help to fix to
whatever those things are. And there is a more especially
I feel for many of us who are American, there
is a humility that we need when we are going
into these spaces. It is not to assume that the
people there don't know the things. We have arrived and
(18:35):
we know the things. It's really to find yourself if
you are in this position to arrive to say I'm
here to learn from you, I'm here to partner with
you in the ways that are helpful to you. But
I have had more experiences of the other side of that,
where you look back and you're like, yikes, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
You look at the pictures that you took and you're like, oh,
maybe look great. And that's why I love the term exchange,
because you know, it's it's not just it's like what
are we learning from them? Like, we're going through these
places to learn as well. And I think a lot
of times in those situations it's like no we're taking
(19:14):
this great thing and you know, we're learning, and they
have a lot of amazing things to teach and to share,
and just because something's different doesn't make it bad or wrong.
And I think sometimes that gets really missed on these trips.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So I do I encourage.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
On the other hand, they're great ways for people to
get out and to learn things they would learn. So
I do just encourage people to be to really investigate
the organizations that they're going with and and make sure
that the values of that organization align with their reasons
and what they hope to get.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, that's really important. I want to talk about black
women and women of color who work in the international
aid space, and I am very interested to hear your
thoughts about this because I know that there are people
in our community listening who are working in these spaces,
even some of them as volunteers as well, you know,
(20:12):
in some of these spaces, right, And I think sometimes
there is this element. I'll say, for me, having done
some work in nonprofit world, having had nonprofit clients, worked
with nonprofit events, I think sometimes it's a part of
it when we are entering a space where we're working
with an organization that is you know, you know air
quotes here doing good. A part of why we do
(20:34):
that sometimes is coming from this good place in our heart.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
We want to affect change. We want to see people
who are under resource have the resources that they deserve,
you know. So we sort of enter the space with
our hearts open and our hands open, and we're here
to do these things. And I think because we're in
a do good environment, we are thinking and hoping that
(20:59):
everyone else there is also here to be open hearted.
It is also here to sort of gather communally while
we try to do all these things. Whereas some of
the black women and women of color I know, for example,
who work in corporate America, there are certain bottom lines
and certain types of things we expect in corporate America
(21:20):
because it's pretty clear a lot of us that have
worked in corporate that this is about making money. You know,
this is about making money. This is about I'm you know,
maybe I'm here trying to make money. We know, the
CEO here trying to make money, you know, the c suite,
everybody is here, from the C suite down to the
entry level position because we're here trying to make money.
So I think there are certain things when we're in
(21:40):
corporate that we just sort of expect to be cutthroat,
and sometimes we expect a certain environment. And I think
some of us walked into international aid, walked into nonprofit
space thinking in some ways maybe we were entering a
bit of a utopia, maybe it wasn't like corporate America,
and then we got inside and we're like, yikes, some
(22:01):
things I needed to think a bit differently, right, So
I would love to hear from your experience. What are
some tips you would give to black women and women
of color who may be in nonprofit space, they may
be working in an international aid space, they may be
considering work in these areas. What are the tips and
things you would say? You know now, like if you
(22:22):
could look back at yourself starting that, you would say
to your young self, Hey, think about this, do these things?
What are some thoughts you.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Have on that you The way you preface this question
is it gets to my number one piece of advice, right,
because I think it's easier. You know, when you've walk
into a corp, a profit making company, you're not expecting
them to have all these values. You're not expecting a
certain treatment and I think that's one of the first
things I tell people is to protect their heart because
(22:51):
all of these are organizations that suffer from the same
societal things that every place I'll suffer, right, So people
with their unconscious biases. People where there's going to be favoritism,
sometimes people are going to disagree or not act in
the most charitable way or the ways that are consistent
with the values of the organization. So I think being
(23:15):
prepared for that and not letting that because I think
when your heart is hurt on that level, it becomes
even it sends you down a much deeper spiral, right,
and it's a lot harder to overcome, and that might
be become the animating thing. So I always encourage people
to walk in with that same sense of, for lack
(23:35):
of a better word, defensiveness, right, walk in knowing what
you're worth, what you're supposed to be doing, and expecting
that kind of treatment, and if it doesn't come or
things don't happen, to not be hurt by it, but
to push back, right and also realize we're in an
organization with these dynamics. One thing I absolutely hate about
(24:01):
the nonprofit sector, or there's this mentality sometimes, and I
think the public does it as well. The organizations that
you should accept far less pay or you should not
because this is good work.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I had a boss who used to brag about never
taking pay raises.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Well, that man lived off of his trust fund. Okay,
I do not need to have a trust.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Fund to work there, right, So it's like, pay me
what I'm worth and what you know, pay me fairly. Yes,
the pay skill is not going to be the same,
but pay me fairly. Me being here and bringing my
talents to this is not a gift to the world,
like we're all here to do good. But if you
and I'd say this for organizations too, if you're trying
(24:43):
to do good work, if you're trying to be professional
and be efficient, then that also means you need to
have professionals who understand what they're doing. Otherwise you're kind
of wasting people's money and energy. So I think, kind
of know who you are, know what you're worth, and
don't be scared to leave. If you can't resolve those
(25:04):
issues within the culture, know that you need to go
someplace else. And I think because nonprofits because there aren't
bonuses to give away, or you know, because there aren't
some of these other incentives. Sometimes people will put up
with things that they shouldn't, and sometimes organizations will allow
a certain level of toxicity to emerge kind of accidentally,
(25:29):
either because of favoritism or just because it's like this
assumption everyone's here to do good work.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
So I don't want to tell people when they're not.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And so I think just us maintaining our standards, especially
because when we leave, like we need to still be
competitive and do things outside as well. Right, So, but
but walking being strong and knowing who you are and
and you know and and be prepared to walk if
it's not if it's not treating you in.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That way, Come on, Jada, don't be scared to leave
is the part that really touched me. That's the part
that really touched me. Because I am a person who
enjoys work connected to my values, for better or for worse.
In my career, that's been true of me. So when
I've been in work situations where I'm like, oh, this
(26:21):
doesn't really connect with me, I have a hard time
sort of like disconnecting from that.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Right, I had to accept there was a place I
left that had some real race issues underlying things.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And a lot of issues, and at some point I realized, wait,
isn't this is just not for me? I am not
the issue here, right Like who I am is very clear.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
This is not a space for me, and that's unfortunate
because they're trying to do a lot of work for
people that look like me, and I will call it
out and I will try to get them to be better,
but ultimately the best thing for my sanity and for
a better use of my skills is to walk away. Yeah,
And so sometimes I think too will take things personally.
(27:08):
It's just hard when it's really close to your heart
and the work, it's harder to let go. It's harder
not to take it personally. And I think it's okay
to acknowledge that some environments are just not for me
and to try to move into spaces that hour that
we can make ours.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I also feel that
it's so powerful that you're speaking to the empowerment of
saying this may not be for me, and in that case,
it is okay for me to walk away, because I
think there are a lot of folks of color, queer folks,
disabled folks that end up working in these types of
(27:48):
spaces that then are made to feel like, oh, well,
you're there for a reason, you're supposed to fix it
from the inside out. And then people who already have
all this other stuff on them when they walk into
the workplace are now being tasked with additional work and
additional things that were not even a part of the
(28:09):
job that they were hired to do. And I think
there is such power in saying, first of all, it
is not my job to come in here and fix
your entire organization from the inside out. If you wanted that.
There is a fee you can pay for consultants. There
is a fee you can pay for people who do
that type of infrastructural work with an organization. But you
(28:33):
don't hire me for this position I've been hired. And
then say, well, because you're black or because you're from
a marginalized group, now it's also your job to help
us learn how to be less racist, or help us
learn how to be less homophobic.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
You know, it's just and I warned people.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I say, you know, I did all the things right
I was on.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Like the black employee things I volunteer.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
But I also tell people like now, I know that
I would not take a diversity, equity and inclusion job
because it is too painful for me to see wrong.
It's just too painful for me. And so there's an
emotional toll that it will take on me that where
I cannot do it, other people can. And that's something
(29:19):
I warned people, even with these employee groups and other things,
I'm like, this is volunteer labor. You know, people are
not going make sure that you're doing really well at
your own job first, because people are going to think
this is like fun for you, right, or it's not
the real extra thing when it is. And so when
(29:40):
you can't negotiate that or just just know that and
take into account where you are in your whole life
and your whole being and if.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's what you want to be doing with yourself.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
And also and I also challenge the other employers to
be like, hey, like at the end of the day,
I think we've all learned, like black people, we're not
the ones to fix racism benefit from it, Like we're.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Not the ones practicing it, you know. It's so you know,
the people that are.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Need to also need to take accountability and really own it.
And so looking at ways to make sure others are
facing that burner or accepting it. And if they're not,
if people are just turning the work back on you,
then you also have a sign that they're not serious.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, that they're not serious people. Jada A word that's yes,
that's a word. I want to talk about Black women
in leadership and how we care for ourselves. I have
a lot of Black women in my sort of personal
life that are my friends. And then of course I
feel like all of us as a black women also
have the Black women that I would say are our colleagues. Right,
(30:43):
they're our friends, but they're also in our field too,
so they know a bit about like the work we're doing.
And this is this is a constant conversation I think
as black women in leadership, we you know, anyone in
leadership has like you have the things you know, you
may have family things that you've got going on. You've
got your own personal life to drink water and breathe
and et cetera. But I find that a lot of
(31:04):
the Black women in my life that I know personally
and professionally, we have our jobs, we have our families,
we have other community work that we have going. We
may have family members or people in our lives that
we are caring for, whether that's our children, parents.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Or interview and going to the hospital to figure out
next steps for my mother's care.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Speak to speak on it.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You know, It's like we have all these things, which
means when we are in leadership positions where our responsibilities
are high at our jobs, it requires even more care
from us for ourselves. What would you say, are some
things in this season of life that are helping you
(31:47):
care for yourself, you know, with all that you may
carry in your life.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah, I think there are two things I really focus on,
and obviously I'm always taking ideas because I think this
self care element is critically important to us.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
But one is the relationships. So I am I'm in
a already so skiway to my sores.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I have.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
There's a text tam with my line sisters that we
are on all the time.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
A group of them are out in Alaska at this moment,
So it's just like making sure to take those you know,
to take the trips, to make the time to have
that close network of girlfriends and we're all navigating our
career journeys and supporting each other through it.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Family support. I happen to have a very supportive.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Husband's who's he does a lot and absorbs a lot.
But yeah, I really focus on keeping those relationships that
keep me sane and those people that care about me strong.
The other side, too, is I am forever telling people
to put on your life jacket first. So I've gotten
much better over the years at saying no, right because
(32:54):
there are things I can't. I just acknowledge that I
can't do everything at the same time, and I it's
you know, And so there are times I just have
to say no, like no, I can't be the school
mom for this, No, I can't do this. And I've
gotten really comfortable saying that because I just need the
time and space to myself for my own to be
(33:16):
the best that I need to be everywhere else, I
have to say no to a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, that's a really it's a really practical thing you said.
And on one hand, sometimes it is just hard to
say no. And on the other hand, the times I have,
I'm like, whoo, that was freeing. I just don't have
to go to that.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I you don't have to do the things dreading it
like why did I say yes? And it's just like,
why am I putting that stress on myself?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Right? Yeah, but it all comes from the.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Optic of really like putting yourself, making sure that you're
putting yourself first and thinking of it, and that you
have people around you who are pointing out when you
are failing at that.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think I've been a
person and I would say this is true of many
of us as black women. Is well, I think I've
been a person who loves to sort of give love externally.
It's like, I love to like support the people in
my life. I love to give to them. I love
to be nurturing to them. And my therapist was like,
you know you your own best friend too, write like
(34:14):
you know that energy you're giving to people like give
It's not that it's bad that you want to do that,
but give it to you too. You know, your girlfriend
has surgery and you will go to her house and
make soup for her and do these things. It's wonderful
that you do it. Would you get the soup for
you or would you let someone else make the soup
(34:37):
for you? And so I think that also helps us
in what you were saying too, of just building building
community with people who care about who we are, not
just what we do, that we matter to them in
full that they're gonna look at you and say, if
you don't go to sleep good night, I do not
want to see you at no meetings, no events, no
(34:58):
more go to eat a vegetable. People in your life
that want that kind of care for you. It's just beautiful.
So I love that you brought that up there.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
No, it's it's it's I travel a lot for my work, obviously,
and it's almost all international.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
One of my colleagues is really good.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
It just like she'll build in the extra half day
to go get the massage, to do the thing, and
I'm always usually just rushing home. I need to get home,
but you know, and she's encouraged me, and so sometimes
I do build in the time, like look, I need
this afternoon, or I need to do something nice, so
I'm not just in and out of places and just
you know, it could be anywhere in the world and
(35:36):
not even paying attention. Right.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Oh, I love that. Okay, I have two more questions
because y'all know I could really talk to Jada for.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We go to your living room.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It's so cal Oh, my gosh, okay, I want to
talk about how we support international aid. Are we are,
on the one hand, having been a person who sort
of grew I've been around long enough now, Jada, that
we grew up without the internet in part, right, okay, right,
(36:06):
you know, before my Space and whatever that is, So
what you knew needed support? There were some things you
just didn't know because we didn't have as much access,
especially here in America. We didn't have as much access
to what was happening internationally all the time. Whereas now
we have social media. You have all these things, and
(36:26):
we talk a lot about, you know, compassion fatigue in
a way that people are just like, what what what
should I care about? What should I support? What would
be you know, your thoughts you would give folks. That
are just practical things we can think about as we
are reading the news and watching our our I'm still
going to say, Twitter, I'm sorry, y'all. That's just how
it's gonna be. So watching our tweets. Sorry, whatever I
(36:48):
may whatever I may say, ain't unapplying to me. Is
still Twitter. So we're like reading our tweets, We're seeing
the things that are coming across hashtags, you know, we're
trying to think about what can we do, and sometimes
in our feeling overwhelmed, then we either don't do anything,
we're not sure how to take in what we're reading.
What would be your thoughts about that as it relates
to how we can be global citizens in the sins.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
There are a couple of things I will say about that.
I think one really making sure that we are fighting
the narrative in our hearts. So for an assistance, what
we consider aid is less than one half of one
percent of the US budget. For those who are Americans
listening to this, it's really easy to get caught up
and like, look at all the money that's going for this,
(37:34):
or why are they giving all this money the Ukrainians.
We have to start at home. There's a lot we
do at home. Americans are very generous at home. We
also have social safety nets that just may not exist
in some other places. Right Like, virtually every single place
my organization does work, there is not social security, there's
not unemployment, there aren't medical facilities near them, you know people,
(37:57):
So the level of safety net is different. And so
we have very desperately poor places in the US that
need support, and there are places in other countries that
may be even more soft. So it's not an or,
it's an and right. And I think especially when you
go to these places and spend time these these people
(38:18):
are you and me. A lot of times they look
like us. They have the same dreams, they want better
lives for their children, they care about their family. These
are really and so I like to think of it
as like, how do we just empower everyone to be
able to self actualize and be their best self? So
I would fight this narrative of only at home or
(38:40):
we give too much to everyone else, because.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You know, the numbers are very skewed. The second thing
is look at the full picture of need.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Right. So there's a lot of attention right now to Ukraine,
which Ukrainians definitely deserve the support. There are lots of
crises around the world that everyone deserves that same attention
that Theyinians are getting. There has been a crippling drought
in the Horn of Africa, so people in Somalia, parts
of Kenya and Ethiopia suffering and literally starving to death.
(39:11):
Flooding and other parts of the world. So don't forget
about those other places of help. And I would encourage
you to support organizations, even if it's like five dollars
a month or fifty dollars here and there, support organizations
that are working in those places that share your values,
because you know, at the end of the day, the
money that we get, like, we're trying to allocate as
(39:33):
much as we can to those forgotten crises. So for
the people in Somalia, the people in Sudan who need
support now the government's falling apart in these air and
so there's a lot that's on the news, and of
course there's we'll get funding for that, but we're also
trying to get additional funds for all these other places
that just aren't getting the level of attention they deserve.
(39:54):
So stay open hearted, think of it as and not
or and whatever you kind of contribute.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Honestly, even five dollars a month is helpful.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Oh that's so yeah, so practical. Thank you so much
for that, because I think there is a way that
we just can kind of get like, Okay, well there's
so many things. There's so many things. What do I do?
And you can kind of look to the think your
own value system, and as you were saying, you can
find you know, ways. There are various ways that we
can be supportive here, and sometimes for people you're like,
(40:27):
what if I don't have the five dollars, there's a
way you can spread the word. Mean, yeah, spread the.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Words like spread spread posts so that someone else like
might oh, okay, maybe that I can't give right now,
but maybe someone else can give, or just even spreading
awareness of these other things that are not breaking into
mainstream media and realizing like, these things don't have to
be like this. There's so much you talked about the fatigue.
There's so much coming at us that it just all
seems hopeless. They're like, oh, there's always some drought over there.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I'm not doing.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
No, these things do not have to be like this.
People do not have to suffer in these ways, Like
we cannot accept these things as status quo that cannot
get better. Like even if you think of the situation,
individual people's lives can be made better.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, oh, I love that. I want to close with
this question, Jada. I love to talk about joy, and
I especially think it's important when I'm talking to someone
who is doing the type of work that you are.
I know that on the one hand, you know, working
with mercy core and being at the helm of an
organization like this. I know that you and your colleagues
(41:28):
obviously see a lot of hard things. You see a
lot of hard stories. You see a lot of things
that you wish were not the case. And I know
also in your work you see some things that just
make you go, Yes, that is why we're doing what
we're doing. That is what keeps me going. So I
always want to know what is bringing you joy. Is
it a snack, is it some people in your life?
(41:50):
Is it a show you love? Are there parts of
your work Just talk to us about how joy also
plays a role in what keeps you going in your work.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yes, yes, so I do like part of the work
we do is you know, you see people emerge on
the other side, or you see people being able to
do things that they thought they wouldn't be able to do.
That's joy for me in my day to day life.
I have two beautiful sons that are eight and ten
years old. I like just looking at them be happy,
(42:21):
like the black Boy joy. The fact that I'm able
to provide certain things and experiences for them, that's pure joy.
The other thing that's brought even more joy and love
into my life is we are the brand new parents
to two puppies. So we have two dogs under the
age of one right now, and there is you know
that it took a while for us to feel like
(42:42):
we were ready for dogs again in that level of care.
But I could never over estimate the amount of joy
that they have brought to my family and what they
do for me on a bad day.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So I do feel very.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Fortunate that in the midst of it all, I do
get to see the good sides. And uh, and my children,
I mean, they're definitely tough days with the boys, don't
get me.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Sure, sure, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
But but and especially when they are being tough the puppies.
The puppies do it every time. So yeah, fine, yeah,
you're right, we have to find that joy.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
We have to.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, oh I love that, Jada. You you know I've
been I've been on the precipice since the pandemic started.
Of like, he wants to get a dog.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
If you have the time and the energy, I would say,
we got puppies. I would say, go get a dog
that's older and it's already trained. Part has not been joy,
but but yeah, I definitely under undervalue just the therapeutic
effect that sometimes coming in the house and just snuggling
up with one of those dogs has has provided to me.
(43:51):
And watching my boys, like seeing the side of them
that loves those dogs to death, has also just warmed
my heart.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Oh. I love that so much, Jada. Thank you for
sharing not only your story with us, but you gave
us a lot of practical things we can think about
in our work, in the different things we can be
more supportive of the different things that may need our support.
So just thank you for that, and also thank you
for the path that I know you are carving. That
(44:21):
will make this path even hopefully easier, and that will
make people after you have an easier way, they'll be
less barriers because you were there to actually push some
of those things down. So I want to say thank
you for that, and I wish you great naps, Jada.
I wish for you to have delicious snacks.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Thank you. This has been so much fun. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Can I tell you where people can find us? Find me?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yes, I'm want you to tell me everything. How can
the people connect with you? How can the people be
connected with the work you're involved in? Tell us all
the things.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Thank you so personally. I I am on what we.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Like I said, we still call it Twitter, and my
Twitter handle is at and Jada, but my name is
spelled TA, isn't Tom j A d A. So there's
a silent T at the beginning. So if you just
look up Jada T j A d A, you will
find me on Twitter. If you're interested in learning more
about Mercycore, which I hope you do.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
We're fabulous. It's at mercycre.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
But M E r C y C O R P
S or www dot mercycore dot org and we'd love
to have your support.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
So thanks everyone.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Thank you so much, Jada, I love that. Go to
all those links everyone, yes, and get you some Swedish fish.
Thank you so much, Jada, thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Thank you, Amena. Have a good one.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Her with Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for
Solographity Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast
Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't
forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.