September 19, 2023 • 36 mins
Photojournalist Brian Hamill is known for his still photographs from movie sets and portraits of rock and roll legends, athletes, celebrities, and politicians. Everyone from Muhammad Ali to Frank Sinatra to Barbara Streisand has been the subject of his lens over the course of his five decades of work. The life-long New Yorker has captured some of the most iconic photos of John Lennon and Yoko Ono, which were recently compiled into his 2022 book, “Dream Lovers: John and Yoko in NYC.” His work on set spans more than 75 motion pictures, including unforgettable films like “Annie Hall,” “Raging Bull,” “Big,” “Tootsie,” and “You’ve Got Mail.” Hamill’s photojournalism experience extends to capturing moments of strife and conflict, including the 1994 Northridge Earthquake and “The Troubles” in 1970s Northern Ireland. Alec Baldwin speaks to Hamill about growing up in Brooklyn as the child of Irish immigrants, his behind-the-scenes experiences on the world’s most memorable movie sets, and the backstory that led to taking John Lennon’s portrait.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest Today is a photojournalist
whose five decades of work have truly run the gamut,
covering politics, sports, travel, music, and entertainment. His wide ranging
career includes conflict of journalism, celebrity portraiture, and travel photography.
(00:27):
It's Brooklyn's Own Brian hammil hammil rose to prominence as
the on set still photographer for movies like Annie Hall,
Raging Bull, Manhattan, Tutsi, Bullets Over Broadway, and You've Got Mail.
The list goes on and on. He has photographed the
most famous personalities of our time, from Mohammad Ali to
(00:49):
Frank Sinatra and Barbara streisand he's even captured some of
the most iconic images ever taken of John Lennon and
Yoko Ono, which were compiled in to his recent book
Dream Lovers, John and Yoko in New York City. Brian
Hamil is a lifelong New Yorker who comes from an
incredibly talented stock He's the child of Irish immigrants, one
(01:13):
of seven. His brothers, Dennis and the late Pete Hamil,
both became acclaimed columnists journalists, authors, and screenwriters. Hamil and
I have been friends for decades. I began our conversation
by sharing one of my favorite memories of him. There's
a story I tell I want to take a woman
(01:33):
on a date, and I want to go to have
dinner with you. And you go, and I'll never forget this.
You go, what day of the week is the date?
I go, what's on a Monday? And you go, Monday, Monday, Monday.
You'll take her to this restaurant I think maybe like
Eel Tray mayor Lee or some Italian place in the Vos.
And then after that, you said, go to Tayo Mina
for dessert.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And I go, really, I mean, you were that specific.
I said, why you go?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Because God he comes there for coffee every Monday night
after Monday evening at like ten o'clock. And my mouth
fell open. So I take the girl to the restaurant,
We have dinner, then we walk down the block, we
go down Houston, we go to Tayo Mina and we're
sitting there. It's us and another couple. Eventually, I hit
a Tayomna many times, but you turned me onto it,
(02:15):
and sure enough the car pulls up, four guys get out,
they look around, they walk in, they look around, they
snap their fingers. The other car pulls up. The guys
get out, you know, like but eventually twelve fourteen guys
get out with gotty and they come in there and
sit down at these tables and have coffee and pastry.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And you were the one that said to me, I know,
I got it. Now.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You are, of course renowned, legendary in one area. But
what I want to talk about first is your family.
And all three are you and your two brothers? You
only have the two brothers, You had other brothers as well.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, there was six boys, one or seven kids.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
What kind of childhood did you have? What kind of
work did your dad do? What kind of a home
did you have? Were you going to become probably the
most famous still photographer in the business. Then your brother
goes on to become a reporter for the Daily News,
big paper. And your brother, Pete is Pete. He's this
legendary novelist, this legendary writer. What kind of household did
you grow up in?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
We were lower middle class, no money, seven kids, Parkslope, Brooklyn,
back when it was a rough and tumble neighborhood. Now
it's a yupper Fid neighborhood. Yeah, there were seven kids
in two bedrooms. We were poor, but we weren't impoverished.
(03:37):
We had We had a richness because my mom and dad.
Even though my dad was a drinker, my mother what
do you do for a living? He worked as an
electrical wire which put fixtures in lights.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Sure he was head of trade, Yeah, and it was.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
He was in Local three. I didn't realize how poor
I was until I went away to college up in
Rochester lri T Rochester Institute of Technology Grade School, and
I met people from all over the country who had
money and we had a struggle. I had to work
(04:13):
up there in Rochester at a drug store, at a
you know, as a cashier just to make the dough.
And I had to take student loans, of course.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So when you're growing up and it's tough you talk
about describing, I mean I had a similar situation in
my family. We had a two bedroom apartment and by
the time we left in nineteen sixty six sixty seven,
and we had six kids, we had my older sister
and three boys on bunk beds. She slept in the
same room with us, so I'm very familiar when you're
(04:46):
living arrangements, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
One bathroom.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I mean this insanity, but my point is when did
you first hold a camera?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And people didn't have cameras back then they were expensive.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I first held the camera in nineteen six where who
had a camera. It was a little brownie camera that
either my sister got us, my sister Kathleen. But I
took pictures of my my homeboys, all my friends hanging
at them park benches. And when I showed them to Pete,
he said, hey, is it good? You want to think
about being a photographer. And Pete was an art director
(05:22):
then for a Greek magazine called Atlantis. You know, because
he was an artist, he had gone to Pratt. That's
where he met Redford. At Pratt, he read for my buddies.
So he actually ended up buying my first good camera,
which was like one hundred dollars camera called Miranda. Then
(05:42):
of course all the rich kids at RIT had nikons.
So eventually I put together enough bread to get an icon.
And RIT was just a great school.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Did you stay there and graduate from arit?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
No? After two years I couldn't afford the tuition for
the third year with none of us had. You know,
I took the student loans. So I said, well, what
I'll do is I'll take off for a year and
come back. But in that year that I took off,
I got drafted and I had to win the army.
So I was in the army from sixty six to
(06:16):
sixty eight.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And where'd you go? Actually?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I ended up going to Fort twelve Wall, Virginia, which
is right outside of DC. I did volunteer to go
to Vietnam because I wanted to shoot photographs. I said,
let me cover the war, you know. But my kid
brother John, mayhe rest in peace. He joined the army
(06:42):
when he was seventeen, became a paratrooper one hundred and
seventy third airborn, and went to Vietnam. So when I volunteered,
because he joined before I got drafted, I put in
the orders to transfer everything and I went before the
colonel in the section I was in, and he said,
(07:03):
why do you want to go to Vietnam. I said,
I'm a photographer. I was in RI two and blah
blah blah. I gave him the whole spiel and he said,
do you have any relatives there? I said, yeah, my
kid brother's there. He said, oh, okay, well let us
digest all that and then we'll give you an answer.
And I got turned down with the colonel. I did
(07:25):
never ended up going to Vietnam. And I thought later, gee,
I wonder if it was the guy I'm not going
to say his name because he might have kids and grandkids,
who was a civilian who ran the museum. He was
very attached to me. He liked me, and he knew
that I did a good job because I went to
the Pentagon and I got pictures from one hundred and
(07:46):
seventy third ab on, thinking I'd run into pictures of
my kid brother, and I designed an exhibit in my
brain was kind of an anti war exhibit because they
were very graphic, and so that was up in the
thing and it became a popular exhibit in the museum there.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
At the Ford. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Now, when you're doing this, Dennis was working in the trade,
like you're old man. He didn't emerge as a writer
to win.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Dennis started writing for the Village Voice, and an editor
who read the Voice liked his pieces.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
News.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
No, No, it was for the La Herald Examiner in
La you know, and Dennis had to learn how to drive,
to be able to take the gig because they didn't
have to drive.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How long was he out there?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
He was out there for a few years, and then
the editor took over the Herald in Boston. But I
got a backtrack. You know who Dennis's landlord was at
the time, in La Schwartzenegger in La. Yeah. So later
on when I met Schwarzenegger, I said, hey, my kid
brother told me we were a good landlord. He said,
how does he know. I said, well, he than the
(09:00):
building that you own. He said, what was his name?
I said, Dennis Hemmelt goes Dennis hammel Man. Could that
guy drink a lot of beer?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And what about Pete? When did he start his career?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Well, he was at Atlantis, the graphic designer, and he
wrote a letter to the editor of the New York
Post back when it was a very left wing paper,
not how it is now. And the guy called them
the editor James Wexel was his name, and said, how
would you like to be a reporter? He said, oh,
(09:37):
I love it, because I said, because your letter was fabulous.
I don't know what the content. I never saw the
original letter, but he went in they gave him a tryout,
and he had never typed before, so he gave him
a one week or two week tryout, and he did,
you know, hunt and Peck to write his news story.
So he he actually covered hard news story. But he
(10:01):
quickly caught the eye of Paul Sand, who was the
famous editor in Pete's friend and just a terrific guy
and a good writer himself. He decided to think about
having Pete be a columnist, and he actually and James
Weschler was, you know, with Dorothy Schiff, who wonted the
(10:22):
paper that time, was in the hierarchy. Paul Sand was
the day to day, day side editor, and he gave
Peter tryout as a columnist, and he became the youngest
columnist of that paper. He was twenty four and that's
where he started.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Now, for you, I don't want to overemphasize in this
discussion because you're from such a famous family, but I
of course can't be remiss and underemphasize what you eventually
become and how you wind up working with the biggest
people in the business, the greatest film directors. The beginnings
(11:01):
of your role in the movie industry, how does that start.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I was doing a lot of journalism, you know, for
different magazines, you know, all the famous magazine and working
a lot, yeah, freelance. But I you know, as somebody
said to me, Pete wrote a film which didn't end
up being very good. It was directed by Frank Perry
about doc Holiday. So Pete got me to do stills
(11:28):
on that movie, which was shot in al Maria, Spain.
And while I was there, I met Jerry Herschel was
the cameraman and his son was the assistant, Alec, and
Alec said you should get in the Union. So I said,
I'd love to get in the Union so I could
do both the journalism, because it's always in my blood journalism.
(11:49):
But I ended up getting into the Union. But I
had to take a test first, and one of the
questions on the test, after I feel out the application,
was how do you photograph a man with a bald head?
So I told about it. This is so like random, yeah, random,
and it depends on your taste. So I just the answer.
(12:12):
I put it, and you put a hat on him,
put a hat on.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
His head, and they gave you a scholarship.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And the guy guy who the things said, that's the
funniest answer I've ever heard. That's not what we meant.
I said, well, it's you know, it depends. You could
shoot it with available light. You can shoot it with
a strob, you could shoot it by a window, doesn't matter.
You know. It was the kind of lame thing to
keep people out of the Union. No, everybody gets into
the Union, right, which is a good.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Thing your career.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
The movies you were did stills on because I want
to explain to people. When I was younger, there was
a still man or woman on the set a lot.
The stills photography was something where.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It was cast specific.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So let's say you're doing a movie and Hackman's only
in for two weeks, you get the still unit in
there to shoot the stills because he's only there for
two weeks.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
But there were stills.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Around a lot a lot and some movies, the big
movies when you had the biggest stars. If you're doing
something with Leo or someone, then the stills are there
every day. It's worth it. I mean, you want great
still photography. And nowadays I just did a film. I
went to go finish this film in Montana and we
had stills there for two days.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
The one comes in for two days cast.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Specific stills for me were always this thing where I
only act for one camera. There's the movie camera. But
I did this thing where I'd almost look right into
the camera and position my body right toward the movie camera.
And when I would go off into that reverie of going,
oh Bob, you gotta remember when my dad was alive
and I go and I play it right into the
(13:45):
fucking camera. But that's not lookdown the barrel of the lens.
And my point is is that if there was another camera,
there were still camera, I go nuts. I'd say I
take the first a d I'd say, get them out
of here.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I'll pose.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
They can shoot the rehearsals later on when they cut
the camera, we'll pose and do it. But I don't
want that camera in my eye when I'm shooting. I'm
assuming for you there were rhythms you had to learn,
and there's things you had to learn about shooting because
you shot the biggest stars in movie history. What was
that like for you to learn how to do that properly?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Well, you have to be discreet, but you have to
get your work done. You can't tell the studio later
on when they get see you infurious out of stills. Hey,
the guy was tough, you know, the actor was a
pain in the ass. That's not an excuse. They just
want to see end results. For instance, when I worked
on Raging Bull, de Niro had an eyeline problem, but
(14:43):
he would always accommodate me. He was so sweet about it.
You know, he's of course up there near the top
of my favorite actors, and he's a good human being,
great guy. So he would always accommodate me. And then
sometimes i'd get away were just grabbing stuff and he
didn't mind. But he would always not make a big
(15:04):
deal at it. He'd just do it with a hand
gesture like you know, and then he'd say he'd nother,
I'll do it for you after him, which do it
for the cut. Yeah, And the same thing with Chris Walking.
Very sweet, very nice. He was in any Hall and
you know, an eye issue, the eye line thing, right,
(15:26):
But it's so funny when I work with the nero
again years later on Sleepers, the Barry Levinson movie, I said, Bob,
let me know, if you know, just do the same
thing he did last time. He said, no, I don't
have that problem anymore. You can just shoot away, and
some actors just let you shoot away, like Dustin Hoffman
and Jimmy Kahn. Never you know, I worked with him
(15:49):
and he's a character. I loved him. And you know,
Nicholson was great.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
No Eyeline without names though, because I'm you when you
said that before, but not one of the name names.
They have children or grandchildren. I'm not out to bury
anybody either.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But that was the guy who brought in whiskey and
listen of Rainbow.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, I remember other actors without naming names who that
you that you have some difficulty with the How do
you win them over? How do you get the job done?
As you said, the boss wants the pictures, what do
you do?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I tell them, this is this is my this is
my job, right, this is how I make my living.
I got I got a little rough with Sam Shephard
on what the Allen movie. He said, no stills. I said, well,
you'll do with it. He says, no, no stills. First
they shooting, and I walked up to him. At the
(16:44):
end of the day, I still kept trying to grab
stuff and I said, listen, you know, I don't want
to be forceful, but this is what I do for
a living. You know, if you're not going to do
it for me afterward, I can understand you don't want
me to shoot your in the take. But you know,
he said, I don't want to have this discussion. No stills.
(17:04):
I said, all right, they wouldn't go outside and start
with these, And he looked at me, and there was
a pa. You know, they walked PA's walking back and
forth to the dressing room, and he ran upstairs to
the producer and the Lime producer Bobby Greenhot. Sweet man, Bobby, Yeah,
great guy, remember Bobby. And he told me the Stell
(17:24):
photographer just threatened me. And Bobby Greenho goes, what do
you mean? He goes, well, he wanted to take me outside,
and he's a tall guy. Sam Sheppard. Pete had written
a New York magazine article about him. So that night
I called Pete and I said, Pete, this guy gave
me a hard time. I think he's a prick. He goes, no,
(17:45):
he's probably just zero intimidated by Woody or whatever, and
you know, you know, just calmed down about it. I
didn't even tell Pete that I threatened the guy. But
what are you being? Woody? He said? Greenhot told me
what you did. I'm so happy you did that. Later
(18:06):
on I ran into Sam Shepard in the village and
he couldn't have been nicer and turned out to be
a nice guy, and we'd have coffee and a joint
in the village a lot together.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Photo journalist Brian Hammel. If you enjoy conversations with brilliant photographers,
check out my episode with Pete Souza, white House photographer
for both Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
The most interesting part of my job was that I
saw him and all these different compartments of his life.
I saw him as a dad. I saw how he
behaved with his children. I saw him when he was
on the basketball court. Most competitive guy I've ever met
in my life. The general public doesn't see that, but
I saw that part of him. One rule that everybody
(18:55):
at the White House staff knew was that six thirty
or seven o'clock he was in dinner with his family.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Full stop.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
To hear more of my conversation with Pete Souza, go
to Hear's Thething dot org. After the break, Brian Hamill
shares the backstory of how some of the most memorable
images of John Lennon came to be I'm Alec Baldwin
(19:33):
and you're listening to Here's the thing. Brian Hamill is
known for his photos from some of the most significant
films in history. In fact, one of his early jobs
on set led to the iconic movie poster for Woody
Allen's film Manhattan. I wanted to know if Hamill set
out to take the one lucky frame that became the
(19:54):
poster or was it just another behind the scenes shots.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
No, it was where Gordon Willis may rest in peace.
Phenomenal talent.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I worked with Gordy.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, phenomenal talent. He took a long time to light it.
But once stuff is lit by Gordon, it goes like clockwork.
When I saw how gorgeous it looked, I had one
of the grips, get me a ladder so I could
get up on the ladder and get a good conversation
that was close to Gordon's composition and bingo. I shot
(20:29):
about eight or nine frames, and Woody, who doesn't like
to do many takes, he said, let's move on.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
You know, I'm gonna tell two quick stories. One time,
I do Malice, this very tepid thriller I did with
Nicole Kidman and Bill Pullman, and Gordy was the DP,
and Harold Becker was the director, and Harold who was
like a Jewish gangster at a book and with that
accent of his and that voice of his. Harold and
GORDI are there and when they're standing there together talking
(20:58):
Gordon I think it was day one and turns out
and he goes.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
When everybody is shut up.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
He screams at the crew and we all teach other like, wow,
this is not at all what I had in mind,
you know what I mean? And I realized I said
I needed to go the other way. I needed to
fight through the wall. So I go up to Gordie
the next day. I go, hey, I mean, I see
you're here at the crack of dawn and you're on
your feet getting everything set up.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I go, can I get you a cup of coffee?
He goes, yeah, sure, I'll take a cup of coffee.
How do you like it? And I'm like it with
milk and two sugars or whatever the fuck it was.
I go get it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And I brought him his coffee every morning that I worked,
and he could not have been nicer to me. It's
like something simple like that. He could not have been
nicer to me. Now, all of Woody's movies, all of
his ouvra is just it saved my life. It saved
my because when I really needed to take my mind
off my problems, that's the only thing that worked, like Gangbusters. Now,
(21:53):
who was a director who you're a photographer and you
have an eye and you talk about composition and ladders
and go and all this other stuff. Who is a
director who you learned from? Did you learn from anybody
when you were watching them shoot films?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh? Sure?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Well, of course? Was that was a masterclass for me
in film mate Michael Chapman. Michael Chapman was you know,
legendary DP and he had been Gordie's operator.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Right the Raging Boat. Yeah, Chapman was a DP.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
What's it like for you to be on a movie
set and you're shooting these people and do you get
like a real or not? Now because you've done it
forever and you you're and I want to get to
John Lenond in a minute, But was it just like
really like a high for you? Did you sit there
and go I can't believe I'm on the fucking set
of this movie while they're making this and you could
(22:44):
tell it's great.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Well, it's good, it's unfolding.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, on good movies. Yeah, but you know, at the
beginning of my career, I worked on a half a
dozen garbage cam movies, right, even while I was in
the Union. You know, you got to work your way
up to get and I actually the first really terrific
movie I worked on was Annie Hall. Actually The Gambler
(23:07):
was a good movie.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Now do you stop at some point? Is there a
time where you just stop and you don't want to
be on sets anymore? Did like did it run its course?
And you were like, I think this is my last movie?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Well, my career got kind of fucked up when I
got THROATCTS. I had to take.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Off for a year, and you got that what year.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I got the surgery done in two thousand and then
I had a gift into two thousand and one with
the radiation, which is you know, do you.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Remember running to me on the street. Yes, I'm cutting
a film. Yeah, the only film I ever made that
I directed. I hated every minute.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You looked at me.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I didn't know who you were. Forty mangan Arrow was
around the corner to go get lunch. I was on four.
I can't believe you your fucking memories. Unbelieva.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm not forty third Street and down that block between
ninth and tenth was the editing house and next door
I go out and smoke a cigarette. I get out
of the ending room and go smoke a cigarette, and
then I and the firehouse was next door, right, and
you know, like I don't know what percent, like eighty
percent of the guys in that unit were killed in
nine to eleven that September.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Including Patty Brown.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I ran into you on the corner and you said
to me, alec I took a look at you.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I didn't even know who you were.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
My head was swollen, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Your and your and your face was was was swollen
and yeah, and you told me what happened.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, stage four cancer.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And so all gone. You're good, Oh yeah, I'm good now.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
But that but that would you say that was the
cause of interrupting your well.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I put a hurt on my career for a year
and a half. But my two North stars, Woody and
Barry Levinson, both hired me right away, right, you know
when I when I was good enough to work, and
I did another ten or fifteen movies after I healed up.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
What's the last movie you did?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Last movie I I did was It Might Have Been
with You with Michael Currente.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
No.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
In two thousand and six Do We Do It was
called Brooklyn Rules.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Brooklyn Rules with Freddie Prince Junior. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, that's the last one I did with Karente. Before that,
I did Outside Providence that he adapted from the Farrely
Brothers book. Right, yeah, And Karrente he doesn't make movies anymore,
and he's no.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
He just shot a pilot that he sent to me
in It's good. It's good pilot wise guys in Federal Hill,
you know, and that's that's his Uh, that's home town,
that mill, you know that, And it's good. I hope
it gets picked up.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
He's a nice guy. He's a determined guy.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Well when he when he focuses, he's a classic example
of a director who needed a good producer so he
could just focus on making the movie.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Like when we made the movie Outside Providence. He would
literally walk up to me and I mean, who's funnier
than Karente was a very funny guy.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Now talk to me about Lenin. You had a big exhibit, Well,
I have.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
A book that came out. I had an exhibit. The
last exhibit I had of my London pictures was in
a terrific gallery in Rheinberg, New York, the Betsy Jacket
Russo Gallery. But my Lenden pictures have been displayed in
New Mexico at a terrific gallery that only does black
and white stuff down there, and the Peter Fretterman Gallery
(26:27):
in Los Angeles. But the last exhibit I had of
those photographs was some of those photographs, not all the
ones in the book. He wrote the forward for the book.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And how did that come about? How did the relationship
with Lenin come about?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I got an assignment from a Sunday supplement in nineteen
seventy two. After I started working on movies, I did
concurrently photo journalism, and Pete had done a piece on
him years earlier when it was the Beatles. He did
a piece on the Beatles for the Saturday Evening Post,
(27:03):
and he had written some columns defending him, because remember
that he went to that whole ordeal where they were
trying to, you know, not let him stay in the
yeah and kick him out and everything, and Pete defended
him in a cluster of columns. I think it was
The Post at that time when Pete was the columns
(27:23):
for the Post. So I said, he used to want
in touch with Lennon and he said yeah. I said,
I just got an assignment from this magazine, a Sunday supplement,
and he said, yeah, you should do it. I said, well,
how do I get in touch with him? He said, well,
I'll call him. So he called him and the next
day he said, yeah, tell your brother to come by tomorrow.
(27:44):
He lived in the village at one oh five Bank
Street at this time, and I had already shot the
concert at the Garden, which was in August of seventy one.
There was a concert that John and Yoko did that.
It was a benefit concert for Willowbrook with you know
heraldover I remember when he was a champion of his career. Yeah. Anyway,
(28:10):
I go over there and I decided, hey, listen, you
know I meet to John Lennon. Let me take all
these photographs. And they were already being distributed through the
agency I had that I worked on with the land
called photo reporters. So I got some you know, silver
gelatin eight x tens made up and I figured, at
(28:33):
some point I'm going to give it to John and Yoko,
these prints, but I'm not going to do it right
away because I don't want to think I was a
brown nose. So I ring the bell and I figured,
you know, it's going to be makeup pair of publicists
and all the bullshit that goes on when you're photograph
a star. And hear the voice saying, yeah, come on up.
The apartment was a couple of flight the top floor,
(28:55):
so he answered the door himself and he stuck at
his turn and goes, hey, Brian, John like, okay, yeah,
you can start. He goes, would you like a cupa?
And you know the Irish and he's English with Irish roots.
He was offering me tea. But I was still a
little nervous, and I figured, you know, I'm going to
(29:17):
go and I'm going to see the you know, the
whole team you know that he's got behind him, And
I walked in through. I declined the tee and I
walked into the room and the only person there besides
Jean was Joko, and they gave me all the time
in the world I needed.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Why do you think he did that?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
He was he was just a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It was a solid guy, and maybe he craved just
normal exchanges with people in normal right moments with people
after having so much insanity, and.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
You know, I foughto left and now I don't know,
forty five minutes and then he said you got enough,
and I said, I'd love to get you walk in
the streets. He said, yeah, let's do it. So the
two of us, the three of us, okay, and we
walked around the village and people would stop him, but
not like you know Stosha New Yorkers in the village,
(30:10):
Andy John that was blah blah blah. And he was
listened to all of them. He was a good listener.
He wasn't like he didn't, you know, try to cut
people short. The same with yoga. She was exceedingly nice,
and all the bullshit about all the negativity about her
really bugs the shit at of me to this day
because she's a nice person.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Brian Hammel, if you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend
and be sure to follow. Here's the thing on the iHeartRadio, app,
Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back,
Brian Hammel shares his experience working in Northern Ireland during
the troubles. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's
(31:09):
the Thing. Photo journalist Brian Hamill has been lucky enough
to be present for some remarkable cultural moments, but he's
also been present to capture moments of strife and conflict,
the Troubles in Ireland, the nineteen ninety four Northridge earthquake,
and sadly, the assassination of Robert Kennedy in Los Angeles
(31:30):
in nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Pete was very friendly with Bobby and I had met
Bobby in the village and who had a beer, and
Pete introduced me to him. So Pete went to Ireland
to work on his first novel, and Pete sent Timmeal
letter saying you know you have to run for president.
Basically he sent them from Ireland. Bobby wrote him back
(31:54):
a letter and said I need you back here. And
Pete he had just finished his first novel, which was
called A Killing for Christ, a thriller. So he came
back and then he said to me let's go to
La together. I had just gotten out of the army.
I should precede this by saying, Martin Luther King got
(32:17):
assassinated fourth, Yeah, April fourth, and I got out a
couple of days later. I'll never forget the phone call.
My mother called me crying on the phone. So anyway,
we got out to La Pete and I and we
ended up at the Ambassador Hotel. We were up in
the room, the hotel room before he went down to
(32:40):
give that speech, the victory speech, you know. Anyway, he
was supposed to go out the back of the ballroom,
and then Pete was up on the stage near Bobby
right here, and I was shooting this way in the crowd,
shooting up, and Pete said, he gestured for me come
(33:01):
around the curtain, and I made my way up there
and said like that, were going out this way through
the kitchen. But anyway, I walked right by Sirhan. I
was from here too, I don't know, thirty feet beyond
where he actually got murdered, maybe twenty five feet because
(33:23):
I wanted to have the candidate come to me so
I could photograph him coming at me, you know, in
the kitchen. So I was all set and then boom boom,
boom boom, and my heart sank. I went holy shit,
and I could hear somebody screaming, no Jack Ruby's, no,
Jack Ruby's. I don't know who that ever was. But
(33:44):
Pete was right there. It was next to Rosie Greer,
and I was you know, he saw the whole thing
go down and luckily, you know, five people got shot.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Well interesting how divided the family was about Sirhans parole. Yes,
you know, Bobby Kennedy Junior said he's sat with him
and said, this guy didn't kill my dad, thanks, and
other members of the family were, you know, vehement about
him not getting any parole. I mean, I have a
lot of opinions about that because I'm kind of a
conspiracy not about both assassinations. And when people talk about
(34:14):
the angle that Sir Haan was at compared to where
the gun was shot into his masty, there's a lot
of questions here.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yeah, Bobby Jr. Is very answer that.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, yeah, completely.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Now one last question, which is you shot. I mean,
I don't like this blanket term. It's a little tedious
to me, but you shot the troubles over in Ireland.
You were over in the caase of photography or were
you an assignment for for that.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
The New York Times magazine? When was that nineteen seventy two, Right,
that's a bloody sign.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
This was a very busy time for you.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Oh yeah, seventies were it was that from my career?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, and what did you see over there? Well?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
I was lucky because my parents are from Belfast, so
I haired kind of a hook with the IRA. Honestly,
people hit no coment. Yeah, right, And I got introduced
to Martin McGinnis, who sort of put me under his wing.
And you told about the guy with balls, you know,
the Brits, and he said they're gonna be shooting at us.
(35:16):
He told me. I said, yeah, I'm down. So they did.
They shot at us. And if you look at the.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
You wanted to go to Vietnam, here was your chance.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, shot it. And actually Pete came over because he
was doing a piece for New York Magazine. So some
of the photographs were also in the New York Magazine
with Pete's piece. But Gail she who wrote the piece
where I did the photos for the New York Times magazine.
But Martin McGinnis, what the Sterling guy. He was. He
(35:46):
was the head of the provos and he was young.
He was like twenty two something. He was younger than
I was. I think I was twenty twenty four or
twenty five when I was there. But you know, when
you're that young, you feel like you're immortal, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Photo journalist Brian hammil You can see some of Brian's
work in person at the Betsy Hakarusso Gallery in Rhinebeck,
New York. On October ninth, his photos of John Lennon
will be on display in honor of what would have
been the musician's eighty third birthday. This episode was recorded
(36:24):
at CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced by
Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is
Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm
Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by
iHeart Radio.
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest Today is a photojournalist
whose five decades of work have truly run the gamut,
covering politics, sports, travel, music, and entertainment. His wide ranging
career includes conflict of journalism, celebrity portraiture, and travel photography.
(00:27):
It's Brooklyn's Own Brian hammil hammil rose to prominence as
the on set still photographer for movies like Annie Hall,
Raging Bull, Manhattan, Tutsi, Bullets Over Broadway, and You've Got Mail.
The list goes on and on. He has photographed the
most famous personalities of our time, from Mohammad Ali to
(00:49):
Frank Sinatra and Barbara streisand he's even captured some of
the most iconic images ever taken of John Lennon and
Yoko Ono, which were compiled in to his recent book
Dream Lovers, John and Yoko in New York City. Brian
Hamil is a lifelong New Yorker who comes from an
incredibly talented stock He's the child of Irish immigrants, one
(01:13):
of seven. His brothers, Dennis and the late Pete Hamil,
both became acclaimed columnists journalists, authors, and screenwriters. Hamil and
I have been friends for decades. I began our conversation
by sharing one of my favorite memories of him. There's
a story I tell I want to take a woman
(01:33):
on a date, and I want to go to have
dinner with you. And you go, and I'll never forget this.
You go, what day of the week is the date?
I go, what's on a Monday? And you go, Monday, Monday, Monday.
You'll take her to this restaurant I think maybe like
Eel Tray mayor Lee or some Italian place in the Vos.
And then after that, you said, go to Tayo Mina
for dessert.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And I go, really, I mean, you were that specific.
I said, why you go?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Because God he comes there for coffee every Monday night
after Monday evening at like ten o'clock. And my mouth
fell open. So I take the girl to the restaurant,
We have dinner, then we walk down the block, we
go down Houston, we go to Tayo Mina and we're
sitting there. It's us and another couple. Eventually, I hit
a Tayomna many times, but you turned me onto it,
(02:15):
and sure enough the car pulls up, four guys get out,
they look around, they walk in, they look around, they
snap their fingers. The other car pulls up. The guys
get out, you know, like but eventually twelve fourteen guys
get out with gotty and they come in there and
sit down at these tables and have coffee and pastry.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And you were the one that said to me, I know,
I got it. Now.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You are, of course renowned, legendary in one area. But
what I want to talk about first is your family.
And all three are you and your two brothers? You
only have the two brothers, You had other brothers as well.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, there was six boys, one or seven kids.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
What kind of childhood did you have? What kind of
work did your dad do? What kind of a home
did you have? Were you going to become probably the
most famous still photographer in the business. Then your brother
goes on to become a reporter for the Daily News,
big paper. And your brother, Pete is Pete. He's this
legendary novelist, this legendary writer. What kind of household did
you grow up in?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
We were lower middle class, no money, seven kids, Parkslope, Brooklyn,
back when it was a rough and tumble neighborhood. Now
it's a yupper Fid neighborhood. Yeah, there were seven kids
in two bedrooms. We were poor, but we weren't impoverished.
(03:37):
We had We had a richness because my mom and dad.
Even though my dad was a drinker, my mother what
do you do for a living? He worked as an
electrical wire which put fixtures in lights.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Sure he was head of trade, Yeah, and it was.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
He was in Local three. I didn't realize how poor
I was until I went away to college up in
Rochester lri T Rochester Institute of Technology Grade School, and
I met people from all over the country who had
money and we had a struggle. I had to work
(04:13):
up there in Rochester at a drug store, at a
you know, as a cashier just to make the dough.
And I had to take student loans, of course.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So when you're growing up and it's tough you talk
about describing, I mean I had a similar situation in
my family. We had a two bedroom apartment and by
the time we left in nineteen sixty six sixty seven,
and we had six kids, we had my older sister
and three boys on bunk beds. She slept in the
same room with us, so I'm very familiar when you're
(04:46):
living arrangements, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
One bathroom.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I mean this insanity, but my point is when did
you first hold a camera?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And people didn't have cameras back then they were expensive.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I first held the camera in nineteen six where who
had a camera. It was a little brownie camera that
either my sister got us, my sister Kathleen. But I
took pictures of my my homeboys, all my friends hanging
at them park benches. And when I showed them to Pete,
he said, hey, is it good? You want to think
about being a photographer. And Pete was an art director
(05:22):
then for a Greek magazine called Atlantis. You know, because
he was an artist, he had gone to Pratt. That's
where he met Redford. At Pratt, he read for my buddies.
So he actually ended up buying my first good camera,
which was like one hundred dollars camera called Miranda. Then
(05:42):
of course all the rich kids at RIT had nikons.
So eventually I put together enough bread to get an icon.
And RIT was just a great school.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Did you stay there and graduate from arit?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
No? After two years I couldn't afford the tuition for
the third year with none of us had. You know,
I took the student loans. So I said, well, what
I'll do is I'll take off for a year and
come back. But in that year that I took off,
I got drafted and I had to win the army.
So I was in the army from sixty six to
(06:16):
sixty eight.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And where'd you go? Actually?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I ended up going to Fort twelve Wall, Virginia, which
is right outside of DC. I did volunteer to go
to Vietnam because I wanted to shoot photographs. I said,
let me cover the war, you know. But my kid
brother John, mayhe rest in peace. He joined the army
(06:42):
when he was seventeen, became a paratrooper one hundred and
seventy third airborn, and went to Vietnam. So when I volunteered,
because he joined before I got drafted, I put in
the orders to transfer everything and I went before the
colonel in the section I was in, and he said,
(07:03):
why do you want to go to Vietnam. I said,
I'm a photographer. I was in RI two and blah
blah blah. I gave him the whole spiel and he said,
do you have any relatives there? I said, yeah, my
kid brother's there. He said, oh, okay, well let us
digest all that and then we'll give you an answer.
And I got turned down with the colonel. I did
(07:25):
never ended up going to Vietnam. And I thought later, gee,
I wonder if it was the guy I'm not going
to say his name because he might have kids and grandkids,
who was a civilian who ran the museum. He was
very attached to me. He liked me, and he knew
that I did a good job because I went to
the Pentagon and I got pictures from one hundred and
(07:46):
seventy third ab on, thinking I'd run into pictures of
my kid brother, and I designed an exhibit in my
brain was kind of an anti war exhibit because they
were very graphic, and so that was up in the
thing and it became a popular exhibit in the museum there.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
At the Ford. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Now, when you're doing this, Dennis was working in the trade,
like you're old man. He didn't emerge as a writer
to win.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Dennis started writing for the Village Voice, and an editor
who read the Voice liked his pieces.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
News.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
No, No, it was for the La Herald Examiner in
La you know, and Dennis had to learn how to drive,
to be able to take the gig because they didn't
have to drive.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How long was he out there?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
He was out there for a few years, and then
the editor took over the Herald in Boston. But I
got a backtrack. You know who Dennis's landlord was at
the time, in La Schwartzenegger in La. Yeah. So later
on when I met Schwarzenegger, I said, hey, my kid
brother told me we were a good landlord. He said,
how does he know. I said, well, he than the
(09:00):
building that you own. He said, what was his name?
I said, Dennis Hemmelt goes Dennis hammel Man. Could that
guy drink a lot of beer?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And what about Pete? When did he start his career?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Well, he was at Atlantis, the graphic designer, and he
wrote a letter to the editor of the New York
Post back when it was a very left wing paper,
not how it is now. And the guy called them
the editor James Wexel was his name, and said, how
would you like to be a reporter? He said, oh,
(09:37):
I love it, because I said, because your letter was fabulous.
I don't know what the content. I never saw the
original letter, but he went in they gave him a tryout,
and he had never typed before, so he gave him
a one week or two week tryout, and he did,
you know, hunt and Peck to write his news story.
So he he actually covered hard news story. But he
(10:01):
quickly caught the eye of Paul Sand, who was the
famous editor in Pete's friend and just a terrific guy
and a good writer himself. He decided to think about
having Pete be a columnist, and he actually and James
Weschler was, you know, with Dorothy Schiff, who wonted the
(10:22):
paper that time, was in the hierarchy. Paul Sand was
the day to day, day side editor, and he gave
Peter tryout as a columnist, and he became the youngest
columnist of that paper. He was twenty four and that's
where he started.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Now, for you, I don't want to overemphasize in this
discussion because you're from such a famous family, but I
of course can't be remiss and underemphasize what you eventually
become and how you wind up working with the biggest
people in the business, the greatest film directors. The beginnings
(11:01):
of your role in the movie industry, how does that start.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I was doing a lot of journalism, you know, for
different magazines, you know, all the famous magazine and working
a lot, yeah, freelance. But I you know, as somebody
said to me, Pete wrote a film which didn't end
up being very good. It was directed by Frank Perry
about doc Holiday. So Pete got me to do stills
(11:28):
on that movie, which was shot in al Maria, Spain.
And while I was there, I met Jerry Herschel was
the cameraman and his son was the assistant, Alec, and
Alec said you should get in the Union. So I said,
I'd love to get in the Union so I could
do both the journalism, because it's always in my blood journalism.
(11:49):
But I ended up getting into the Union. But I
had to take a test first, and one of the
questions on the test, after I feel out the application,
was how do you photograph a man with a bald head?
So I told about it. This is so like random, yeah, random,
and it depends on your taste. So I just the answer.
(12:12):
I put it, and you put a hat on him,
put a hat on.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
His head, and they gave you a scholarship.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And the guy guy who the things said, that's the
funniest answer I've ever heard. That's not what we meant.
I said, well, it's you know, it depends. You could
shoot it with available light. You can shoot it with
a strob, you could shoot it by a window, doesn't matter.
You know. It was the kind of lame thing to
keep people out of the Union. No, everybody gets into
the Union, right, which is a good.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Thing your career.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
The movies you were did stills on because I want
to explain to people. When I was younger, there was
a still man or woman on the set a lot.
The stills photography was something where.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It was cast specific.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So let's say you're doing a movie and Hackman's only
in for two weeks, you get the still unit in
there to shoot the stills because he's only there for
two weeks.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
But there were stills.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Around a lot a lot and some movies, the big
movies when you had the biggest stars. If you're doing
something with Leo or someone, then the stills are there
every day. It's worth it. I mean, you want great
still photography. And nowadays I just did a film. I
went to go finish this film in Montana and we
had stills there for two days.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
The one comes in for two days cast.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Specific stills for me were always this thing where I
only act for one camera. There's the movie camera. But
I did this thing where I'd almost look right into
the camera and position my body right toward the movie camera.
And when I would go off into that reverie of going,
oh Bob, you gotta remember when my dad was alive
and I go and I play it right into the
(13:45):
fucking camera. But that's not lookdown the barrel of the lens.
And my point is is that if there was another camera,
there were still camera, I go nuts. I'd say I
take the first a d I'd say, get them out
of here.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I'll pose.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
They can shoot the rehearsals later on when they cut
the camera, we'll pose and do it. But I don't
want that camera in my eye when I'm shooting. I'm
assuming for you there were rhythms you had to learn,
and there's things you had to learn about shooting because
you shot the biggest stars in movie history. What was
that like for you to learn how to do that properly?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Well, you have to be discreet, but you have to
get your work done. You can't tell the studio later
on when they get see you infurious out of stills. Hey,
the guy was tough, you know, the actor was a
pain in the ass. That's not an excuse. They just
want to see end results. For instance, when I worked
on Raging Bull, de Niro had an eyeline problem, but
(14:43):
he would always accommodate me. He was so sweet about it.
You know, he's of course up there near the top
of my favorite actors, and he's a good human being,
great guy. So he would always accommodate me. And then
sometimes i'd get away were just grabbing stuff and he
didn't mind. But he would always not make a big
(15:04):
deal at it. He'd just do it with a hand
gesture like you know, and then he'd say he'd nother,
I'll do it for you after him, which do it
for the cut. Yeah, And the same thing with Chris Walking.
Very sweet, very nice. He was in any Hall and
you know, an eye issue, the eye line thing, right,
(15:26):
But it's so funny when I work with the nero
again years later on Sleepers, the Barry Levinson movie, I said, Bob,
let me know, if you know, just do the same
thing he did last time. He said, no, I don't
have that problem anymore. You can just shoot away, and
some actors just let you shoot away, like Dustin Hoffman
and Jimmy Kahn. Never you know, I worked with him
(15:49):
and he's a character. I loved him. And you know,
Nicholson was great.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
No Eyeline without names though, because I'm you when you
said that before, but not one of the name names.
They have children or grandchildren. I'm not out to bury
anybody either.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But that was the guy who brought in whiskey and
listen of Rainbow.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, I remember other actors without naming names who that
you that you have some difficulty with the How do
you win them over? How do you get the job done?
As you said, the boss wants the pictures, what do
you do?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I tell them, this is this is my this is
my job, right, this is how I make my living.
I got I got a little rough with Sam Shephard
on what the Allen movie. He said, no stills. I said, well,
you'll do with it. He says, no, no stills. First
they shooting, and I walked up to him. At the
(16:44):
end of the day, I still kept trying to grab
stuff and I said, listen, you know, I don't want
to be forceful, but this is what I do for
a living. You know, if you're not going to do
it for me afterward, I can understand you don't want
me to shoot your in the take. But you know,
he said, I don't want to have this discussion. No stills.
(17:04):
I said, all right, they wouldn't go outside and start
with these, And he looked at me, and there was
a pa. You know, they walked PA's walking back and
forth to the dressing room, and he ran upstairs to
the producer and the Lime producer Bobby Greenhot. Sweet man, Bobby, Yeah,
great guy, remember Bobby. And he told me the Stell
(17:24):
photographer just threatened me. And Bobby Greenho goes, what do
you mean? He goes, well, he wanted to take me outside,
and he's a tall guy. Sam Sheppard. Pete had written
a New York magazine article about him. So that night
I called Pete and I said, Pete, this guy gave
me a hard time. I think he's a prick. He goes, no,
(17:45):
he's probably just zero intimidated by Woody or whatever, and
you know, you know, just calmed down about it. I
didn't even tell Pete that I threatened the guy. But
what are you being? Woody? He said? Greenhot told me
what you did. I'm so happy you did that. Later
(18:06):
on I ran into Sam Shepard in the village and
he couldn't have been nicer and turned out to be
a nice guy, and we'd have coffee and a joint
in the village a lot together.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Photo journalist Brian Hammel. If you enjoy conversations with brilliant photographers,
check out my episode with Pete Souza, white House photographer
for both Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
The most interesting part of my job was that I
saw him and all these different compartments of his life.
I saw him as a dad. I saw how he
behaved with his children. I saw him when he was
on the basketball court. Most competitive guy I've ever met
in my life. The general public doesn't see that, but
I saw that part of him. One rule that everybody
(18:55):
at the White House staff knew was that six thirty
or seven o'clock he was in dinner with his family.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Full stop.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
To hear more of my conversation with Pete Souza, go
to Hear's Thething dot org. After the break, Brian Hamill
shares the backstory of how some of the most memorable
images of John Lennon came to be I'm Alec Baldwin
(19:33):
and you're listening to Here's the thing. Brian Hamill is
known for his photos from some of the most significant
films in history. In fact, one of his early jobs
on set led to the iconic movie poster for Woody
Allen's film Manhattan. I wanted to know if Hamill set
out to take the one lucky frame that became the
(19:54):
poster or was it just another behind the scenes shots.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
No, it was where Gordon Willis may rest in peace.
Phenomenal talent.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I worked with Gordy.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, phenomenal talent. He took a long time to light it.
But once stuff is lit by Gordon, it goes like clockwork.
When I saw how gorgeous it looked, I had one
of the grips, get me a ladder so I could
get up on the ladder and get a good conversation
that was close to Gordon's composition and bingo. I shot
(20:29):
about eight or nine frames, and Woody, who doesn't like
to do many takes, he said, let's move on.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
You know, I'm gonna tell two quick stories. One time,
I do Malice, this very tepid thriller I did with
Nicole Kidman and Bill Pullman, and Gordy was the DP,
and Harold Becker was the director, and Harold who was
like a Jewish gangster at a book and with that
accent of his and that voice of his. Harold and
GORDI are there and when they're standing there together talking
(20:58):
Gordon I think it was day one and turns out
and he goes.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
When everybody is shut up.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
He screams at the crew and we all teach other like, wow,
this is not at all what I had in mind,
you know what I mean? And I realized I said
I needed to go the other way. I needed to
fight through the wall. So I go up to Gordie
the next day. I go, hey, I mean, I see
you're here at the crack of dawn and you're on
your feet getting everything set up.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I go, can I get you a cup of coffee?
He goes, yeah, sure, I'll take a cup of coffee.
How do you like it? And I'm like it with
milk and two sugars or whatever the fuck it was.
I go get it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And I brought him his coffee every morning that I worked,
and he could not have been nicer to me. It's
like something simple like that. He could not have been
nicer to me. Now, all of Woody's movies, all of
his ouvra is just it saved my life. It saved
my because when I really needed to take my mind
off my problems, that's the only thing that worked, like Gangbusters. Now,
(21:53):
who was a director who you're a photographer and you
have an eye and you talk about composition and ladders
and go and all this other stuff. Who is a
director who you learned from? Did you learn from anybody
when you were watching them shoot films?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh? Sure?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Well, of course? Was that was a masterclass for me
in film mate Michael Chapman. Michael Chapman was you know,
legendary DP and he had been Gordie's operator.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Right the Raging Boat. Yeah, Chapman was a DP.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
What's it like for you to be on a movie
set and you're shooting these people and do you get
like a real or not? Now because you've done it
forever and you you're and I want to get to
John Lenond in a minute, But was it just like
really like a high for you? Did you sit there
and go I can't believe I'm on the fucking set
of this movie while they're making this and you could
(22:44):
tell it's great.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Well, it's good, it's unfolding.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, on good movies. Yeah, but you know, at the
beginning of my career, I worked on a half a
dozen garbage cam movies, right, even while I was in
the Union. You know, you got to work your way
up to get and I actually the first really terrific
movie I worked on was Annie Hall. Actually The Gambler
(23:07):
was a good movie.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Now do you stop at some point? Is there a
time where you just stop and you don't want to
be on sets anymore? Did like did it run its course?
And you were like, I think this is my last movie?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Well, my career got kind of fucked up when I
got THROATCTS. I had to take.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Off for a year, and you got that what year.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I got the surgery done in two thousand and then
I had a gift into two thousand and one with
the radiation, which is you know, do you.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Remember running to me on the street. Yes, I'm cutting
a film. Yeah, the only film I ever made that
I directed. I hated every minute.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You looked at me.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I didn't know who you were. Forty mangan Arrow was
around the corner to go get lunch. I was on four.
I can't believe you your fucking memories. Unbelieva.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm not forty third Street and down that block between
ninth and tenth was the editing house and next door
I go out and smoke a cigarette. I get out
of the ending room and go smoke a cigarette, and
then I and the firehouse was next door, right, and
you know, like I don't know what percent, like eighty
percent of the guys in that unit were killed in
nine to eleven that September.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Including Patty Brown.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I ran into you on the corner and you said
to me, alec I took a look at you.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I didn't even know who you were.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
My head was swollen, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Your and your and your face was was was swollen
and yeah, and you told me what happened.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, stage four cancer.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And so all gone. You're good, Oh yeah, I'm good now.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
But that but that would you say that was the
cause of interrupting your well.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I put a hurt on my career for a year
and a half. But my two North stars, Woody and
Barry Levinson, both hired me right away, right, you know
when I when I was good enough to work, and
I did another ten or fifteen movies after I healed up.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
What's the last movie you did?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Last movie I I did was It Might Have Been
with You with Michael Currente.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
No.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
In two thousand and six Do We Do It was
called Brooklyn Rules.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Brooklyn Rules with Freddie Prince Junior. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, that's the last one I did with Karente. Before that,
I did Outside Providence that he adapted from the Farrely
Brothers book. Right, yeah, And Karrente he doesn't make movies anymore,
and he's no.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
He just shot a pilot that he sent to me
in It's good. It's good pilot wise guys in Federal Hill,
you know, and that's that's his Uh, that's home town,
that mill, you know that, And it's good. I hope
it gets picked up.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
He's a nice guy. He's a determined guy.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Well when he when he focuses, he's a classic example
of a director who needed a good producer so he
could just focus on making the movie.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Like when we made the movie Outside Providence. He would
literally walk up to me and I mean, who's funnier
than Karente was a very funny guy.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Now talk to me about Lenin. You had a big exhibit, Well,
I have.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
A book that came out. I had an exhibit. The
last exhibit I had of my London pictures was in
a terrific gallery in Rheinberg, New York, the Betsy Jacket
Russo Gallery. But my Lenden pictures have been displayed in
New Mexico at a terrific gallery that only does black
and white stuff down there, and the Peter Fretterman Gallery
(26:27):
in Los Angeles. But the last exhibit I had of
those photographs was some of those photographs, not all the
ones in the book. He wrote the forward for the book.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And how did that come about? How did the relationship
with Lenin come about?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I got an assignment from a Sunday supplement in nineteen
seventy two. After I started working on movies, I did
concurrently photo journalism, and Pete had done a piece on
him years earlier when it was the Beatles. He did
a piece on the Beatles for the Saturday Evening Post,
(27:03):
and he had written some columns defending him, because remember
that he went to that whole ordeal where they were
trying to, you know, not let him stay in the
yeah and kick him out and everything, and Pete defended
him in a cluster of columns. I think it was
The Post at that time when Pete was the columns
(27:23):
for the Post. So I said, he used to want
in touch with Lennon and he said yeah. I said,
I just got an assignment from this magazine, a Sunday supplement,
and he said, yeah, you should do it. I said, well,
how do I get in touch with him? He said, well,
I'll call him. So he called him and the next
day he said, yeah, tell your brother to come by tomorrow.
(27:44):
He lived in the village at one oh five Bank
Street at this time, and I had already shot the
concert at the Garden, which was in August of seventy one.
There was a concert that John and Yoko did that.
It was a benefit concert for Willowbrook with you know
heraldover I remember when he was a champion of his career. Yeah. Anyway,
(28:10):
I go over there and I decided, hey, listen, you
know I meet to John Lennon. Let me take all
these photographs. And they were already being distributed through the
agency I had that I worked on with the land
called photo reporters. So I got some you know, silver
gelatin eight x tens made up and I figured, at
(28:33):
some point I'm going to give it to John and Yoko,
these prints, but I'm not going to do it right
away because I don't want to think I was a
brown nose. So I ring the bell and I figured,
you know, it's going to be makeup pair of publicists
and all the bullshit that goes on when you're photograph
a star. And hear the voice saying, yeah, come on up.
The apartment was a couple of flight the top floor,
(28:55):
so he answered the door himself and he stuck at
his turn and goes, hey, Brian, John like, okay, yeah,
you can start. He goes, would you like a cupa?
And you know the Irish and he's English with Irish roots.
He was offering me tea. But I was still a
little nervous, and I figured, you know, I'm going to
(29:17):
go and I'm going to see the you know, the
whole team you know that he's got behind him, And
I walked in through. I declined the tee and I
walked into the room and the only person there besides
Jean was Joko, and they gave me all the time
in the world I needed.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Why do you think he did that?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
He was he was just a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It was a solid guy, and maybe he craved just
normal exchanges with people in normal right moments with people
after having so much insanity, and.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
You know, I foughto left and now I don't know,
forty five minutes and then he said you got enough,
and I said, I'd love to get you walk in
the streets. He said, yeah, let's do it. So the
two of us, the three of us, okay, and we
walked around the village and people would stop him, but
not like you know Stosha New Yorkers in the village,
(30:10):
Andy John that was blah blah blah. And he was
listened to all of them. He was a good listener.
He wasn't like he didn't, you know, try to cut
people short. The same with yoga. She was exceedingly nice,
and all the bullshit about all the negativity about her
really bugs the shit at of me to this day
because she's a nice person.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Brian Hammel, if you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend
and be sure to follow. Here's the thing on the iHeartRadio, app,
Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back,
Brian Hammel shares his experience working in Northern Ireland during
the troubles. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's
(31:09):
the Thing. Photo journalist Brian Hamill has been lucky enough
to be present for some remarkable cultural moments, but he's
also been present to capture moments of strife and conflict,
the Troubles in Ireland, the nineteen ninety four Northridge earthquake,
and sadly, the assassination of Robert Kennedy in Los Angeles
(31:30):
in nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Pete was very friendly with Bobby and I had met
Bobby in the village and who had a beer, and
Pete introduced me to him. So Pete went to Ireland
to work on his first novel, and Pete sent Timmeal
letter saying you know you have to run for president.
Basically he sent them from Ireland. Bobby wrote him back
(31:54):
a letter and said I need you back here. And
Pete he had just finished his first novel, which was
called A Killing for Christ, a thriller. So he came
back and then he said to me let's go to
La together. I had just gotten out of the army.
I should precede this by saying, Martin Luther King got
(32:17):
assassinated fourth, Yeah, April fourth, and I got out a
couple of days later. I'll never forget the phone call.
My mother called me crying on the phone. So anyway,
we got out to La Pete and I and we
ended up at the Ambassador Hotel. We were up in
the room, the hotel room before he went down to
(32:40):
give that speech, the victory speech, you know. Anyway, he
was supposed to go out the back of the ballroom,
and then Pete was up on the stage near Bobby
right here, and I was shooting this way in the crowd,
shooting up, and Pete said, he gestured for me come
(33:01):
around the curtain, and I made my way up there
and said like that, were going out this way through
the kitchen. But anyway, I walked right by Sirhan. I
was from here too, I don't know, thirty feet beyond
where he actually got murdered, maybe twenty five feet because
(33:23):
I wanted to have the candidate come to me so
I could photograph him coming at me, you know, in
the kitchen. So I was all set and then boom boom,
boom boom, and my heart sank. I went holy shit,
and I could hear somebody screaming, no Jack Ruby's, no,
Jack Ruby's. I don't know who that ever was. But
(33:44):
Pete was right there. It was next to Rosie Greer,
and I was you know, he saw the whole thing
go down and luckily, you know, five people got shot.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Well interesting how divided the family was about Sirhans parole. Yes,
you know, Bobby Kennedy Junior said he's sat with him
and said, this guy didn't kill my dad, thanks, and
other members of the family were, you know, vehement about
him not getting any parole. I mean, I have a
lot of opinions about that because I'm kind of a
conspiracy not about both assassinations. And when people talk about
(34:14):
the angle that Sir Haan was at compared to where
the gun was shot into his masty, there's a lot
of questions here.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yeah, Bobby Jr. Is very answer that.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, yeah, completely.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Now one last question, which is you shot. I mean,
I don't like this blanket term. It's a little tedious
to me, but you shot the troubles over in Ireland.
You were over in the caase of photography or were
you an assignment for for that.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
The New York Times magazine? When was that nineteen seventy two, Right,
that's a bloody sign.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
This was a very busy time for you.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Oh yeah, seventies were it was that from my career?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, and what did you see over there? Well?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
I was lucky because my parents are from Belfast, so
I haired kind of a hook with the IRA. Honestly,
people hit no coment. Yeah, right, And I got introduced
to Martin McGinnis, who sort of put me under his wing.
And you told about the guy with balls, you know,
the Brits, and he said they're gonna be shooting at us.
(35:16):
He told me. I said, yeah, I'm down. So they did.
They shot at us. And if you look at the.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
You wanted to go to Vietnam, here was your chance.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, shot it. And actually Pete came over because he
was doing a piece for New York Magazine. So some
of the photographs were also in the New York Magazine
with Pete's piece. But Gail she who wrote the piece
where I did the photos for the New York Times magazine.
But Martin McGinnis, what the Sterling guy. He was. He
(35:46):
was the head of the provos and he was young.
He was like twenty two something. He was younger than
I was. I think I was twenty twenty four or
twenty five when I was there. But you know, when
you're that young, you feel like you're immortal, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Photo journalist Brian hammil You can see some of Brian's
work in person at the Betsy Hakarusso Gallery in Rhinebeck,
New York. On October ninth, his photos of John Lennon
will be on display in honor of what would have
been the musician's eighty third birthday. This episode was recorded
(36:24):
at CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced by
Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is
Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm
Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by
iHeart Radio.
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