Ask HTM - Diversifying to FI, Upside Down on an RV, & Extreme Lengths to Buy a Home #937

Let’s dive into the week with some fresh listener questions we have lined up for you! And don't just stand on the sidelines- if you have a question you’d like us to answer, toss your voice memo our way. It only takes about 90 seconds to record and you can find a step by step guide over at HowToMoney.com/ask . Regardless of how random or bizarre you might think it is, we want to hear it!

 

1 - Is a stocks only portfolio diversified enough for financial independence or do I need to include real estate?

2 - What’s the best way to get rid of an RV that I’m upside down on?

3 - Where should I park cash that I’m saving up for a down payment, or should I invest those funds?

4 - For my credit score: is credit utilization calculated on each individual card or the total credit available across all of my cards?

 

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During this episode we enjoyed an Ash by Humble Forager! And please help us to spread the word by letting friends and family know about How to Money! Hit the share button, subscribe if you’re not already a regular listener, and give us a quick review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Help us to change the conversation around personal finance and get more people doing smart things with their money!

 

Best friends out!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
today we're answering your listener questions.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
That's all right, buddy, We've got a number of voice
memos to get to during our Ask how to Money episode. Today,
we're gonna hear from a listener who is looking to
diversify his way to financial independence. Another listener is wondering
what she should do, specifically when she is upside down
on a vehicle an RV. We'll get to that, and

(00:44):
we're gonna hear from another listener who is looking for
the best accounts to park a down payment for a
home that she's looking to purchase. So looking forward to
that plus more during our episode here.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Today, Buddy, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
You want to talk about finding loss of money. You've
got a note here about.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm not talking about couch cushion money, Matt, about the
old standby. So I got a text from a buddy
the other day and he said, hey, found money for you.
I was like, what are you talking about for you? Yeah?
For really? He literally just started. So there are these
online databases missing money dot com and unclaimed dot org.
So let's say it's an insurance payout that was trying
to get to you. There's like a million reasons you

(01:24):
might have some sort of outstanding money that's in your
name that I don't know. You missed the correspondence and
it never came to you, and so they are the
state databases that keep track of these funds.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Or maybe it was when you had to flee the state, Joel,
and you changed your name in order to evade all
of the Uh, we don't talk about the loan sharks.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
We don't talk about my time on the LAMB map. Okay,
that we're after you. And so apparently I did have money.
My buddy randomly searched in my name. You can do
this for people that you care about, I guess if
you want. And he was like, I got a little
bit extra time on my hands, let me put Joel's
name into the database. And so, yeah, he was able
to find two little sums of money. I was owed

(02:02):
what by?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I shocked?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, I guess it must be fairly recent based on
an insurance claim, a homeowners insurance claim when the tree
fell through my roof.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
I remember that.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, But they were sub fifty dollars each, So it's
not like we're talking about big, big bucks went like
thousands of No, I mean, how cool would that have been?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Right?

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I would have voted a finder see if that was
the case. That's crazy man.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Okay, So well you specifically mentioned the two like national sites.
I think there's a lot of folks who are listening
and they're thinking this is too good to be true, man, Like,
there's no way that this exists. No, this is completely legit. Yeah,
and the two sites that Joel mentioned are like national
sort of databases.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well linked to them in the show notes.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
By the way, but go a step beyond that as well,
because some of those or some states aren't included in
those national registries as well. So states have their own
registry that you can search as well. So if you
really want to get into the weeds a little bit,
I would recommend for you to do that. So, uh,
sub fifty dollars, yeah, still look at one hundred bucks.
Perhaps you got any.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Play white not white, but hey, it's something no big
plans for the money, not really, but we'll see. But
it's really nice of my friend to look out for me.
And you can do this for your friends, for your
loved ones, but you can do it for yourself and
so this is just one of those things that takes
literally thirty seconds of your time type that information and
figure out whether or not there is some money out

(03:20):
there for you and go out there and get it.
But yeah, just just know that these websites are legitimate.
And I've met we've every time we talk about this,
we have probably half a dozen listeners reach out and.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
We hear it for the first time.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, and they've heard it and they take action and
they go check it out and there's money waiting there
for them. So it's one of those things where it
does seem too good to be true, but in this
case it's it's not. It's really just record keeping of
your money that wasn't able to get to you somehow.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
In a lot of cases, I mean, it can be
thousands of dollars. It's way more than just like the
equivalent of some like a twenty dollars bill lost left
in the winter coat or in a purse that you're
no longer using slip away in your Class's nice?

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Is it to find twenty bucks in your coat pocket?
It means yeah, it brings a smile.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
To me, although I've literally never had that happen And
it's even less likely to happen, given how little we
use physical cash these days. But hey, I'm happy for.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
You, buddy. Yeah, thanks man, and thanks to my friend
Tim for looking out for me.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Did Tim search my name as well?

Speaker 1 (04:18):
He didn't say.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
I'm going to assume he did. There's no money out there.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
He probably been. It's been a couple of years though,
since I've searched as well.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
But before we move on, let's share the beer that
you and I are going to enjoy during this episode.
This is an ash, which is a beer by Humble Forger,
and specifically it's a barrel aged American double spout, and
I'm not surprised to see that looks like it's a
collaboration with the Brewing Project because I have literally never
had a stout by the Humble Forger before they normally

(04:47):
do those. I've had an ipa by them before, and
some a lot of sours is typically what I'm used
to seeing on their label. So looking forward to enjoying
this one and sharing our thoughts at the end of
the episode.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Same here, All right, let's move on a list questions. So, Matt,
and by the way, if you're listening and you say
I've got a money question. I want Matt Joel to
tackle it next week on the podcast. Well, we'd love
to hear your question. You can just go to how
to money dot com slash ask for the directions. But
really it's just recording a voice memo sending over to
us via email and hopefully we'll take it next week. Matt,
let's get to a question about diversification and is stock

(05:22):
market investing enough to get the job done.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Hey, Matt and Joel. My name is Mike and I've
been listening to your podcast for a few years now.
Great content, love the fact that it's tailored to a
wide audience. Keep up the awesome work. The question today
is about diversity. The wife and I have focused on
our careers and our income, which is paid off in
the long run. We're also interested in financial independence and
over the last few years we've become really focused on

(05:46):
our savings rate. And I'll also add that we are
currently in our mid thirties and do not have any
kids as of yet. Right now, we max out both
the four O one K, the IRA, the HSAS, and
after that we average four thousand dollars per month to
a brokerage account. And my question is everyone keeps saying

(06:07):
that real estate is a way to supercharge your finances,
but honestly, I see nothing but hard work and high risks.
We live in a medium cost of living area, but
there are no houses around here that are actually cash flowing.
I've talked to a couple of real estate agents, and
the general advice is that they're going for appreciation, which
I think is a bad bet. Is investing everything in

(06:30):
a low cost index fund. Enough, it's pure stocks, so
if the market slows down, obviously that's all we're banking on.
What else can we do to diversify this money? We
save so much and have so much in cash. I
just don't see the benefit in making life more complex
with real estate and rentals. But is it ultimately a

(06:52):
bad move to only do low cost index funds and
nothing else?

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Thanks guys, oh Joe?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Is it a bad move?

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (07:00):
If I would go that far, But uh, I am
glad that Mike is asking this question. He's asking how
much diversity is necessary to be a successful investor. And
this becomes even more pertinent the further along you get
in your progress towards financial independence, just because you know
we're talking about a bigger sum of money as opposed
to someone who's like just getting started.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Right, If you're all in with a hundred bucks, that's
one thing. If you're all in with a million bucks,
that's another thing. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And in Mike's case, it's not like he's all in
on Nvidia or anything like that. He's well diversified in
the stock market. But does he need to go beyond that?
That is his question.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah. I definitely think there are ways in which if
Mike called in with this question and his portfolio were
not as diverse as it is, it were kind of
allocated towards just a handful of stocks or something like that,
the answer is different. But you know, you're right, like
they are decently well diversified at least on the stock front. Yeah,
and so what costs index funds man? So way to go? Yeah,

(07:58):
And so Mike and his partner they've been smart to
focus on their careers as like one of the first
thing he thinks he talked about. You know, some people
who are incredibly frugal can focus so hard on saving
and pinching pennies that they forget to invest in themselves.
I think it's really important to highlight that, Matt, because
you know, growing the pie is so much smarter than
just trying to eat a little bit less of that pie,

(08:19):
and that is something that doesn't get focused on enough.
I don't think in the in the personal finance space,
what Mike and his spouse have been able to do
with that bigger pie is admirable. You guys have made
a lot of progress towards financial independence at an incredibly
young age. But now the question arises, do you need
to expand your efforts to other asset classes, to investing

(08:40):
more widely? And I think Matt, the at least simple
quick answer to that question is not really that those
low cost index funds really are enough for the vast
majority of people.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Totally, I would give him a big old negative because
if you, let's say you are a savvy real estate investor,
you are inclined in that direction. I think it can
be away in his words, to supercharge your finances. But
whether or not it will be for you as an
individual there, Mike, that depends on a ton of factors,
including the purchase price, it depends on what you can

(09:11):
get in rent, and the fact that it takes a
whole lot of time to save up for that down
payment as well. It's I think it's hardest for a
lot of folks out there to stomach the idea of
buying a rental property when you know that you're going
to be losing money on it every single month.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
And I raise my hand to that, Matt, it would
be hard for me to stomach buying a rental property
right now, especially given I wouldn't do it some of
the dynamics and the fact, like, no, don't sign me
up for buying a rental property. What I'm gonna lose money?

Speaker 2 (09:34):
And so basically, like it feels like Mike is trying
to get us to talk him into getting into real estate,
and I'm not going to do it, Mike, they can't
to us my arm, I still won't punch no, I'm
seriously because like he even highlighted the sort of aspects
that are going to make it more more of a
negative experience for him, and instead, what I want to
do is like one of the things Mike pointed out

(09:54):
is the fact that he is him and his wife
are are interested in financial independence, is which is when
you're investments are large enough that you can live off
of your investments as opposed to work. I think for
a lot of folks when they first find out about
financial independence, it can kind of become this all consuming projects. Yeah,
you get the tractor beam on the desk start and
you can't it's hard to escape it. Like you've taken

(10:15):
the red pill in the matrix and you know the truth,
and so now you're thinking, oh, everything else is just
an illusion. It's it's the warm, cozy security blanket that
you get with the blue pill. No Mike saying no
to the blue pill. He's like, Okay, I know what
I'm capable of, or I know what is capable once
you've invested enough money. But instead, and so, Mike, if
this doesn't apply to you, then just dismiss everything that

(10:38):
I'm saying here. But this was me, Like I am
confessing here that when I first learned about this, I
was consumed and pretty infatuated with the idea of becoming
financially independent.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
But it's kind of hard not to because it does
alter the way you view the world.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
To a degree. It's really helpful. But what I would
challenge you to do, Mike, is to think through some
other aspects of life that make life more robust and
enrich like, and that could be something as small as
just thinking through some hobbies that you enjoy, like, Okay,
how can I incorporate those into my life a little
bit more. But I also noticed that Mike said that
they aren't or that they don't have any kids, at

(11:12):
least not yet, which tells me that maybe this is
a goal of theirs. And so I would say, hey,
I want to hear you talking more about making that
a priority if that's something that you want to do,
because personally, I found that growing my family and having kids,
man like, that is like one of the biggest most
rewarding things in my entire life. Man, the joys of parenthood.
And oftentimes when you're like or we could get that

(11:34):
next promotion and then we could stock away this much
more at work, which leads to being able to attain
that magic number of being financially independent even more so. Well,
I just want you to not necessarily optimize from a
financial standpoint, and to expand your scope a little bit
and to look at some of the other things in life.
And the way I'm hearing you talk about real estate,
you're not thinking at all about what it is that

(11:56):
you want to spend your time doing it's about the
financial or the return on your investment. And you might see,
like I was just saying, you might see an outsize
return on your investment. But certainly if it's a not
something you want to do anyway, and b if investors
in your area are only counting on appreciation, well, man, personally,
I don't think it would be worth it.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, and so so much of how we answer this
question depends on the person asking it and how they're
asking it, Because Matt, there are some people who are
more inclined to invest in real estate. They're more just
naturally interested, and maybe their skill set leads to them
being better real estate investors. What Mike said was all
I see is the hard work and the high risks. Yes,
And when you see that, then I think taking on

(12:36):
a part time job to hope on some appreciation at
the end of the day, that's a bad idea. And
we talk about real estate, you and I try to
talk about it with open eyes because there are a
lot of people who talk about it as this passive
investment passive income, and the truth is it is more
like a part time job than investing in the stock market,
which you can do, especially blindholded with two hands tied
behind your back. It's something that doesn't really require all

(12:59):
that much dedicated And so if you have other interests
like growing your family or just I don't know, not
spending a lot of time managing real estate, then you
can do those things. Whereas real estate does change your
life to a certain degree. And I just think, really,
at the end of the day, for Mike, when it
comes down to it, if your heart isn't into investing
in real estate, I will encourage you to buy a

(13:21):
house in an effort to eke out higher returns when
you just don't have that innate desire. Like you if
you kind of have been following the space, you've read
a few books, and you're like, man, this is super
exciting to me. Yes, there are ways in which you
can make real estate makes sense. But if you're trying
to put the square peg in the round hole, don't
do it.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, man, that's right, Like you are speaking to the
activity of investing in real estate. But then even beyond that,
I still want to just touch on the phone, like
did he say that they aside from four one k
is a roth iras and even Hsa is that he's
also throwing I think he said, another four thousand dollars
into a brokerage, a taxable brokerage account. They are like,
really really getting after it, and he's saying that they're

(13:58):
not in a high cost of living area.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Either.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
It's one thing if they're living in like the Bay
Area or they live in New York or something like that,
but it makes it sound like that they are just
banking all this money in a relatively at least average
cost of living area. So that's why I guess I
want Mike to think through some of the other aspects,
some of the other facets of life perhaps, But then
on top of that specifically addressing real estate here to diversify,

(14:22):
there are other ways to diversify your investments as well.
For instance, if you want that real estate exposure, but
without all that effort, you can invest in REITs real
estate investment trusts. I think having a small amount of
ate exposure, so I'll specifically name vanguards, which is v NQ,
that couldn't hurt. But we also don't think it's totally

(14:44):
crucial to you being able to stay diversified. I mean,
you could also invest in alternative investments. And maybe I
shouldn't even even mention that because we're not fans of
those due to the high fees. But like, even excluding
the fees, the returns are often worse on those alternatives.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
As well, and those alternate investments have to beat their fees,
and their fees are really high, and guess what, they
don't even beat.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
There occasionally, but like they can't do it consistently. And
that's why we love investing in widely diversified low cost
index funds. I think, when it boils down to it,
we think that being all in on these low cost
funds is totally the way to go, and it does
offer enough diversity to be invested in the American economy
at large, not to mention if you're considering some of

(15:27):
the different.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Global ETFs out there as well. Yeah, I'm glad you
mentioned being Q. I do think that is one of
the easiest ways to invest in a myriad of real
estate projects at an incredibly low cost and in a
way that's incredibly liquid, right, Whereas like a lot of
the alternative investments that you just highlighted, they're typically very
ill liquid, which means your money might be set aside
for years, not the high fees. Yes, but then oh, hey,

(15:51):
I want to get out of this investment. What's really
difficult to get your money back? Last thing, Mike, I'm
not sure if you own a primary home or not,
but that's also a way to own real estate and
to not have to be a landlord, to kind of
have at least a foot right into real estate as
a diversifier, and it can overtime act as a hedge
against inflation and a forced method of savings, which is

(16:12):
part of the reason that people who own a home
typically have a higher net worth in this country. It's
not because real estate is the best investment, but it's
because it's a forced method of savings leading to people's
increase net worth. But taking money, I think away from
investing in stocks at the rate you're doing in order
to amassive down payment and buy a house that you
rent out just doesn't seem like a brilliant move to me.

(16:36):
Maybe the primary home you buy could have some sort
of rental component to it which would to help you
dip your toes in the water without buying something that
doesn't make sense from a work or from an ROI perspective.
But we just truly don't see the need for you
to make any changes to your strategy given your age,
your goals, and your interests. For people out there who
are listening again, Matt, who say, I really am curious

(16:57):
about real estate, and I feel like I have some
special skill, some fix it skills, some you know, I'm
a real estate agent, whatever it may be, that funnel
you kind of further towards the real estate orbit.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, you got a real estate superpower, like you have
an unfair advantage in one.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Of those ways. Great, take advantage of that superpower and
lean into real estate and slowly but surely start to
acquire properties. It's harder than it was eight ten years ago,
but it doesn't mean it's impossible. But I think for
somebody like Mike who's already not inclined in that direction,
it just doesn't make any sense totally.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
So, Mike, we hope that those are some of the
answers that you needed to hear. And speaking of real estate,
we're gonna hear from a listener who's looking to save
up for a down payments. We'll get to that question
and more right after this.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
All right, Matt, we're back. Let's get to a question now,
about man. Sadly one of the worst purchases you can make.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Hello, how to money? Name is Tony in San Diego.
So I have an RV, bought it in May twenty
twenty four, but things changed on my life and I
was able to buy a home. Don't need the RV.
Trying to determine whether I should sell it in public,
like on the street, or return it back to the dealership,

(18:18):
at which point they will have me pay the remainder
of what's left over, which is about thirty K. They'd
like that money in about two weeks once it's sold,
and I guess i'd have to get a loan to
cover that remaining amount. Just not sure what to do.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Thanks, hm, Joel.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
I feel like a lot of what we're gonna say
to Tony is like bad news, right.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
But so before we gets all that, I'll shoot the messenger. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
I want to highlight the fact that what I like
about what Tony has done here is that she's taken
a more unconventional approach to solving one of the biggest
expences that we all experienced every single month, which is housing. Yeah,
because she the way she said it, it sounded like
she considered or she maybe lived for a period of
time in the RV, because then she said, but now
I have a house, so I don't need the RV anymore.

(19:12):
I like that. I like that kind of outside of
the box thinking. It makes me think of a friend
I had in college.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Who he's like a tiny house movie. He yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
He lived in his truck. He had a pickup truck
with the bed cover on it, you know that like
kind of turns your truck into an suv.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
And he had all of his stuff.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
In the back of his truck and he created a
little sleeping area and he literally, for at least one semester,
if not an entire year, slept in his truck. He
was on the meal plan, so that's how that's how
he ate. All his friends were living in the dorm
of course, and so he would just get his little
shower tote, his shower kit. He would go and shower
in the dorms for free. When guy really cold or

(19:52):
really hot, he had an amazing sleeping bag and he
is like a sleeping pad, so he was insulated up
off of the bed and he was out there, dude,
when it was cold, like cold cold.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
So is this frugal or cheap. Well, my buddy, James,
when you're that age, I think you can endure a
lot more than when you're our age.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Here's the thing. He wasn't like a total cheap skate
where he was like mooching off of everybody, because if
we would go out, like to the coffee shop, he
would buy coffees for everybody, like he knew that that
everyone like. That is how he was able to get
clean at least, well, he's always like hanging out in
everyone's living rooms.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
You just get a gym membership right for fifteen twenty
bucks a month, and that's a you could have done
that free shower, could have done that thing. But all
I had to say, I think I appreciate Tony and just
maybe how she attempted to solve this problem. But I
guess getting an RV, you're not taking the absolute cheapest
path towards finding a way to solve this problem is
maybe a little bit more of a lifestyle play, right,

(20:45):
Like maybe after the pandemic when everybody was on the road,
everyone's doing the van life thing, and she thought, oh
I could maybe I could do that, and then she realizes,
actually this isn't quite for me. And if you're buying
an RV to solve your housing situation, I think that
could be a really smart decision. And maybe that's what
Tony was initially doing. And now she bought this house,
which congratulations on buying a home, Tony. We hope it's

(21:07):
great and that you live there a long time. But
I think most people buy rbs to as like an
excursion vehicle of sorts, right to go see the country,
just to have fun, which is also cool, I guess
if it's well planned and well considered and you know
what you're doing. But RVs are typically incredibly expensive. And
it's one of those decisions, Matt, that I see time

(21:28):
and time again, people one year, eighteen months, two years
after the fact saying, yeah, this wasn't what I thought
it was going to be. And actually one I get,
I'm scared to drive this thing. It's forty feet long
or whatever it is, and I don't like living on
the road. And so you find people who know the
depreciation period it can the depreciation could be severe in

(21:49):
just a short year or two. And so even though
people have owned their RV for not much time, just
like Tony here and it sounds like she knows this.
You could be talking about losing many thousands of dollars
or tens of thousands of dollars, even if you haven't
put many miles on it. And so that's the treacherous
downside of rbs is that people go into it with
these high hopes, these ideals of living on the road.
Maybe they read some Jack carrowac or something like that,

(22:12):
Matt and they're like, this is gonna be grand, and
I'm going to go see all the national parks. And
then they realize, oh wait, man, I missed my community,
I missed my family, I miss my friends, and the
RV lifestyle, it turns out, is not for me.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's not quite even though it kind of solves the
same problem. It's not the same as real estate, where
you have one that's pretty much guaranteed to depreciate versus
another one which is pretty much guaranteed to appreciate. But
she's asking whether or not she should sell it herself
or she should just turn it over to the dealership.
And I will say none of these two options are
particularly stellar.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
I would be.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Curious to know how much she owes and how much
the RV is worth because like it sounds like there's
a like a roughly thirty thousand dollars gap, which again,
this is a tough dollar amount to stomach. But I
would advise you to look up the value of your
particular make and model up on a site like rvtrader
dot com. There are ways to get like professional appraisals

(23:02):
as well, but you're just looking for a ballpark value here,
And the goal, of course, would be to close that
thirty thousand dollars gap as much as possible by selling
it yourself, because I think if you let the dealership
sell it for you, it's going to end up costing
you a lot more money at the end of the day.
And that's I think going to be the more expedients,
the more let's just get this over with sort of

(23:22):
approach to where you're not sort of faced with maybe
this decision that you.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Now regret at this point.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
But I do think putting in a little bit of
sweat equity and looking to sell it yourself might be
more the path that we would recommend.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
One hundred percent. I mean, I think you're right, the
easy path here is going to cost you more money,
and so at the end of the day, which is
what you want to avoid. So we'd suggest taking great picks,
writing a good description, or to sell your RV yourself.
You might even want to pay a little bit of
money to get it listed on some of the more
popular RB selling websites. That's going to net you the

(23:55):
biggest sale price, which is ultimately what you're looking to
do to minimize the amount of money that you're losing.
And just like selling a car, there's a substantial gap
in what you make selling it yourself versus what you
get trading in. When you look at Kelly Bluebook dot
com for instance, and you're trying to figure out car
value math, they give you a car value selling it
used in certain conditions, and then trade in value, and
there's a reason the trading value is less.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
They're not even trying to hide it, no, it's just
out there the fact that you typically are going to
sell it for much more.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Where you to sell it yourself, you hit the easy
button and guess what, you get a certain amount of
money back. You put in a little more legwork and
you're going to get a good bit more back in
your hands. And so either way you're going to have
to come up with a way to borrow money to
pay for the difference in what you owe and what
the RV is worth. If you hand the RV back
to the dealer, though your credit is likely to be
negatively impacted. That's going to affect every other realm of

(24:44):
your finances for years to come. So I guess that's
what we want to avoid, is you come out even
worse on the financial side of the equation and also
having your credit smacked around in the same time. That's true, Yeah,
but I like what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Essentially, you're saying to create this beautiful listing, right, And
I think another I think there's an emotional component too,
of just turning it into the dealership to where you
don't have to be done with it again. You don't
want to see it anymore because you're just sick of it.
And I think by like making yourself see it a
little bit, there's like there's a change you would internalize
the positive lessons than the takeaways from this a little

(25:17):
bit more. Were you to then just say, Okay, I'm
I'm just gonna pay whatever it takes. Something else I
think that's worth considering is renting it out.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
You've got this RV.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I don't know. Can you sort of turn it on
its head a little bit and see this maybe as
an asset as opposed to a liability outdoorsy, this is
a cool site where folks can rent out their RVs,
and I think it might be worth browsing around. Look like,
peruse a little bit, see how much you could potentially
make with an RV given where you currently live.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Because if you're.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Able to turn your RV from a cash drag into
a monthly net positive, well you might be able to
avoid your fate of selling that thing out a substantial loss.
Either it becomes a side hustle that makes you a
little bit of money every single month, or it at
least allows you to hold onto it for longer as
you continue to pay off that balance, so that you
don't take a thirty thousand dollars bath that you can't

(26:08):
afford all at once. I think it's at least worth considering.
And Joel, this totally reminds me of one of the
original Town of Money episode or back in the day
it was poor out poor but was it like episode
two or three or whatever? But like you and Emily
were considering getting an airstream, right, that you're gonna put
in your backyard and you're gonna is gonna be super cute. Yeah,

(26:29):
li's that thing on Airbnb.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
We have a friend who's done exactly that, and he
has crushed with his area. Like I think about how
much he spent on that and what he's turned it into.
He's turned it into a like essentially literal gold mine
that it's in his backyard, super cute, and the value
has not really declined much, and yet he has continued
to make money on it month after month after month.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
And yeah, I went with you, took a picture of
you sitting in it and everything, like very seriously considering
by that thing and this you're right, And she's already
got it ranted. Maybe it's not as cute as like
a vintage airstream or anything like that. She says, RV,
so I picture there's got to be brown or it's
got to be tanned with brown highlights.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Well, yeah, and if you might not go back in
time and make this decision to buy this RV for
this purpose, but now that you have it, can you
make lemonade out of elements? And if you do have
to take on additional debt. Let's say to cover the
gap in what you owe and what it's worth, we
would say, go to your local credit union to see
what they offer. You almost always get better terms than
you would at the bank. I'd also make a massive goal, Matt,

(27:25):
if I was tony, to try and pay off that
loan in short order, like as fast as possible. Get
a side hustle to bring in some extra income. Stick
to a bare bones budget for a few months to
accelerate your cash flow. We have a whole episode on
creating a barebones budget, but it's essentially like an all
hands on deck whatever it takes to eradicate this debt
sort of scenario. We all make financial mistakes, right, but

(27:46):
we want you to recover from this as quickly as possible,
and so to look at kind of straight in the face,
like Matt was saying, get the best terms possible for
selling this so that you minimize your loss, and then
to attempt to improve your financial situation as quickly as
you can via increased income, reduce spending or both at
the same time.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, but then on top of that, if you think
that this is something you want to do from a
lifestyle samepoint, consider just renting the dang RV before going
all in, and certainly before financing it, but even before
paying for one in cash, even before buying a used
RV in cash. Just go out there and rent it
for a couple of weeks. Be on the other side
of outdoors y.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes, yes, exactly. There's a lot.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
It's like time It's almost like time shares, where there's
like so many people are interested in unloading theirs. But
I think trying it outs, trying out the RV lifestyle,
makes a ton of sense before going all in and
dropping a whole lot of your money on one of
these things.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
All right, man, let's get to another question. This one
is specifically about buying a home and kind of what
to do in advance of that.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Hi, Joel and Matt.

Speaker 5 (28:48):
My name is Ophelia and I'm from Los Angeles. I
love your podcast and I listen to it every day
on my commute. I'm planning to sell my condo in
two years, rent for a while, and stave up to
buy a new home. Right now, I'm holding all of
my savings in a high guilt savings account. But I'm
wondering if there's a better place to park my cash
in the short term to maximize growth. What would you

(29:09):
say is the best strategy for the situation and is
there anything else you think I should keep in mind?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Thank you, Oh, Ophelia said La. I hope she and
her family and friends in her neighborhood are safe have
been safe from all the fires on the rail I
can't imagine living out there on the West coast.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
We've been keeping in touch with our friends who live
out there, and it's just precarious. And then also just man,
the images are harrowing. Yeah, real toughest stomach. I hope
you're doing doing well, Ophelia. It's also fascinating, Matt that
Ophelia is going to sell her condo and then rent
and then buy a home. I'm cool with that. I
like it. Yeah, it's not a bad strategy. It's actually

(29:47):
not something many people are willing to do to kind
of go back to renting for a time to kind
of get their stuff together, to be able to have
that cash on hand to make a really strong offer
when the time does come and they're ready to buy.
But I think of that as a solid strategy that
maybe more people should consider.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Okay, so before we get to the heart of a question.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Let's just touch on renting versus buying, because like the
economic trade offs of one versus the other are in
constant trade off mode, because in sometimes and places, in
markets like buying is going to be a slam dunk decision,
like despite the fear of buying twenty ten to twenty thirteen,
that provided enormous buying opportunities across essentially all of America.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
And everybody who wants to own a home now says,
can I please just take a time portal back to
twenty eleven prices? Yeah, if only we could.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
But then at other times, at other locations, it's almost
impossible to come out ahead as a buyer. And that's
obviously not the only thing that you're taking into consideration
when buying a home. It's not a purely economic decision,
but it is important to weigh your desires of home
ownership with the economic reality of what is going.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
To cost you. And that is especially true.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Living out there in southern California, where the rent versus
buy gap is massive. But yeah, I like what you
said too about her, just her willingness to rent a
place as she's saving up. It tells me that.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
This is a serious goal of hers, which.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
I am one hundred percent behind. But one of the
things that she didn't mention were other investments that she
might have or that she might not have. And I
even though I want this to be a goal that
you achieve, like I love the fact that you are
scaling back, let's hope you're scimming back at least like
rent a place that's kind of run down. Certainly that
you feel safe in.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Ophelia, is what Matt said.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
But like, get after that goal of home ownership. I
am one hundred percent for that. That being said, don't
let that keep you from investing at least a bare minimum.
So if that means if you have a four to
one k, which you commute and that's when you listen
to the show, so you're employed, that's great. Hopefully you
have a match that your employer offers with your four
to one k if so at least get that employer match.

(31:52):
If you don't have a four to one k, at
least invest within a roth Ira Because I don't want future.
I don't want tomorrow Ophelia to be curse seeing yesterday Ophelia.
Because all that you were focused on in this portion
of your life was getting this property, and unfortunately it's limited.
Some of the options that you now have there far
off into the future.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, it feels nice to buy the property of your dreams,
or at least, you know, get into a single family home.
Especially in south southern California, that is a really expensive prospect.
And I remember visiting there me hanging out with a friend.
Though the priceest crepency between renting and buying on his
block was astounding to me. I mean, what you would

(32:33):
pay in every month for rent was it paled in
comparison to buying the same property. And so you just
have to take that into consideration. And maybe Ophelia starts
renting again and she says, wait a second, this is cheap,
and I have so much money on hand that I
can invest a ton and you know, ramp up my
trip to financial independence. I can be there in a
decade versus thirty years. I miss out on that dream

(32:54):
of home ownership, but I think it, particularly in high
cost of living areas, you have to count the cost
before you jump in and say home ownership is for me.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, But I guess it's
just you have to take a lot of things into
account before you jump all in on that. And that's
coming from guys that own their own homes. So it's
not like you and I were not against home ownership.

(33:15):
But we're not actively trying to dissuade people from buying
a home. We just want people to go in with
eyes wide open, and there's a lot of personal joy
that we've derived from home ownership. I am thankful to
have to own my own home. I guess I have
a mortgage on it, so maybe the bank and I
co owned the home at this point in time. But
just know that it might not be the most financially
optimized choice, especially right now. But where to put all

(33:37):
that money in the meantime, that's your main question. It's
all about timeline and risk tolerance. I think those are
the two main things you have to kind of keep
in mind. The truth is eking out a slightly higher
rate of return is more worthwhile given the likely amount
of cash that you have on hand. Sometimes we get
a question or I see people in the how to
Money Facebook group and they're saying, I've got five thousand
bucks in savings, should I open this new account to

(33:59):
earn an extra half percent on my savings interest rate happen, right,
And that's just a kind of a small potatoes question.
It's often just not worth the time to jump down
the road in order to get paid a little bit
more on such a small sum of money. I mean,
five thousand bucks is a lot. I'm not trying to
like say it's not worth anything. But the truth is,
when you're talking about a half a percent on five

(34:19):
grande a year.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Most people can out earn that difference in interest rate.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
And no time. So some personal finance nerds Matt, they
geek out they spend too much time majoring on these
minor issues. But if we're talking about one hundred thousand
bucks or more, which this just might be given kind
of where Ophelia is at with, you know, the proceeds
from the condo, the harvesting those gains tax free, essentially,
I think we are talking about bigger potatoes at least

(34:43):
about where she puts that money.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
And I'm glad that she's already got her money in
a high yielded savings account and she's not with one
of the bigs. But can you do even better? Maybe
it's really hard to predict the future of interest rates,
because all signs were pointing to lower rates for savers
coming soon, but those haven't materialized the way that many
predicted given the hot jobs market over the past couple weeks.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Man, you remember all the headlines about how many times
the Fed's going to cut rates, and it just seems
to be a lot slower than a lot of people predicting.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, it's been a little bit stickier folk than the economists.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
We're expecting.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Rates have gone down a little bit, but savers are
still outpacing inflation if they pick the right accounts. Doctor
of Credit is one of our favorite sites because they
keep tabs on the top paying accounts to date and
specifically though for you, I think a CD might even
be the best option. But that being said, those rates
are a bit lower than.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
A high old savings account these days, and it's hard
to know how much lower savings rates are likely going
to go given how yeah, most recently, how hot the
jobs market is. It's it's almost like a CD is
like a hedge, right, a downward hedge, Like, oh, if
rates go down significantly, I'm still able.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
To get that higher rate. Maybe you split your money,
maybe you put half your of what you currently have
in a CD the rest keep it in a high
old savings account. It feels me personally, I think I
would just keep all my money earning that high rate
currently that I'm currently receiving at a high yield savings
can just know that the rate will likely go like
cme somewhat right, but at least my money is not
tied up, and it gives me the options.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
That's right. And I think you know I mentioned the
importance of timeline in this decision as well. How flexible
is your home buying timeline, Ophelia If you're keen on
this home purchase but also willing to push it further
down the road in an attempt to grow your nest
eg if you're saying, listen, this is a goal of mine,
but like if it happens three years from now, if
it happens seven years from now, I don't really care.

(36:32):
I just I know I want to do this, but
it doesn't it I'm not necessarily married to the idea
of it happening in a specified period of time. If
you're willing to push it further down the road, then
you could take on some risk by investing a portion
of your down payment fund. But here's the other thing
you have to keep in mind, because if you can't
stomach seeing like a I don't know, twenty percent plus

(36:53):
drop in the value of your nest egg in this
fund that you've worked years and years and years and
years to accrue, at some point in the next couple
of years, you're likely to experience some sort of a
bear market or a stock market downturn, and you will
see the value of that capital declined precipitously. If it's
going to be too emotionally difficult for you to bear that,
don't do it. So I give the stock market acted

(37:14):
more like twenty twenty two than twenty twenty three and
twenty twenty four, and the perfect house came along, you're
going to be between a rock and a hard place because
the down payment fund that you had accrued, well, it's
worth a whole lot less than it was, just because
of the fact that you were hoping for more upside.
So I do agree with Matt. I think Saving one
of the better high savings accounts CI typically has top
notch rates that are better than almost all the rest

(37:35):
of the market.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Upwards of four percent last time I checked.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, and savers are out pacing inflation. Thankfully. I think
that's the most straightforward option. It's probably the right thing
for anybody with a short to medium term need for
that money. That's probably the right move for Ophelia here too.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Especially given the fact that it sounds like she wants
that house so badly. Right, Like, if she was much
more open ended to it, I would say, sure, go ahead,
invest that money, but give it the fact that she's
going she's jumped through some pretty small hoops. Is that
the right term, Like the hopes that you gotta jump through.
If they're small, they're hard to jump through. That sure.
But by selling her place, man, that tells me that
she really that she really really wants to own her

(38:14):
own Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, she's setting herself up for that ability reducing expenses
so she can. I think it sounds like increase savings.
So she's got that bigger down payment, so she's ready
to go.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, and we'll make sure to link to because you
have opened your own c account, Jolins, We'll link to
the article up on the site that points out how
easy that actually is. But Joe, we've got more to
get to. We're gonna talk about a listener who may
have been handling her credit cards all wrong.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
We'll get to that more right after this. All right, Matt,
we're back, Yeah more listener question action to get to
This is the Facebook question of the week. It comes
from listener Bonnie. She says, for credit score calculations, is
the credit utilization based on each card or an aggregate?

(39:02):
I always thought it was aggregate. We recently put several
large expenses on a card, which put our utilization for
that card to forty five percent. All cards combined, our
utilization is less than ten percent. However, our credit score
plummeted by over thirty points. Ye, the card is going
to be paid in full before interest to cruise. I
know my score will rebound once that payment is reported,

(39:24):
but I had a bit of sticker shock when I
saw that our score was impacted so significantly. Yep, yep.
I think Bonnie's learning the hard way.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Let's discuss credit utilization, which is basically how much of
your available credit that you use. And the credit scoring
models out there they rate this statistic pretty highly. It
makes up thirty percent of your score after your payment history.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, basically on time payments. Hey, that's the most crucial,
But this is the second most important.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
But then how much of it you're actually using. They
pay close attention to that, Like they want you to
have tons of credit at your disposal, but to use
very little of it. That to them at least reveals
the ability to control yourself, and they're gonna reward you.
It's almost like by showing substantial love to your credit score.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Almost like if you went to and all you can
eat buffet, but they saw that you were so disciplined,
you only got one well apportioned plate. You didn't keep
going back like you did, Matt. I know when you
were growing up to the soft serve machine for all
that ice cream. Come on, I know here here there's old.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Handle that there's only one way that I learned how
to be an expert cone fillerrepia. You know, like I
do it like they do at Chick fil a.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
You know how they got right.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
You don't do it so that it like flops around
and you know, no, you hold it up in there
and then it fills it and then you drop it
a little bit and it has those beautiful little rips.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
You probably got a soft serve least seven or eight
of those every time you went.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
I would say there's a slew of other factors that
do impact your credit score, Bonnie, including paying your bills
on time. Of course, that's thirty five percent of your
overall credit score. But your credit utilization rate is often
underrated and misunderstood. But it sounds like you are you're
kind of wisen up to how it's actually calculated.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Most people don't even know what their credit score is, like,
they know that it exists, and they might not even
know what their score is. They have a vague notion
that it impacts their finances in some way, form or fashion.
If you're one of those people and you're not quite
sure how the credit score that you have impacts your life, well,
we've got a lot of content up on how to
money dot com. We have some previous episodes that you

(41:16):
should go back and listen to when it comes to
repairing a broken credit score or how to understand the
credit scoring systems that you can take advantage of it
maximize your score because it does impact almost every aspect
of your financial life. And whether or not your utilization
rate is per card or overall, that's always been I'll say,
at least a little murky like the credit bureaus, don't

(41:40):
always share every single way in which the credit score.
Some of these credit bureaus might have potentially several scores,
maybe a dozen or more scores for every individual, so
it's not even like there's one score for everybody, which
is part of what makes this confusing as well. And
they don't necessarily tell us exactly how the sausage is made,
and though we have like a high end understanding all

(42:02):
the details, they don't come out and spell it out
for us. But if one card experiences a higher than
normal balance, even though your overall utilization rate remains low,
you will see a credit score hit because of it. Typically,
so if you have let's say one hundred thousand dollars
in total credit available and you're using ten thousand dollars
of it, that's great you have a low credit utilization rate.

(42:24):
But if all ten thousand dollars is on a single
credit card that has a twelve thousand dollars limit, your
credit score is going to take a hit because of
the fact that, yes, it seems like all credit scoring models,
or at least most, are taking into accounts how you're
handling specific credit cards into In addition, to your overall
credit right, so they're looking at both your individual credit

(42:47):
card utilization ratio and the overall ratio factor. Both are
kind of making it their way into your credit score.
Best practices are to keep your utilization rate under thirty
percent of your overall credit limit and under ten percent
if you're keen on raising your score, if you want
to kind of be in that upper echelon closer towards
credit score perfection, credit score, nirvana, whatever you might call it.

(43:10):
But under thirty percent is going to on your specific
credit cards, on each individual one, and then on your
overall amount of credit utilization as well. Keeping an under
thirty percent is pretty much going to get you directly
where you want to.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Go totally, and it can be a bit confusing. I
would just say focus on the individual cards because by
keeping each individual card under the thirty percent limit, it
is impossible to go over your thirty percent overall aggregate
credit limit like you do the one and it'll take
care of the other. But there are ways to mitigate
the impact of a large expense on your credit. Makes
me think about most recently Joe paying for a pretty

(43:45):
large plumbing bill and how I should probably take care
of that before it hits the statement. Bonnie mentioned that
she's going to be paying the balance on time and
in full. That's crucial. But you could pay the balance
before the statement actually closes, so that that large balance
it never even gets rep which wills like what the
credit bureaus don't know, won't hurt them kind of yeah, exactly.
And there's a reason because like, there's a benefit I

(44:07):
receive by not by waiting until the end of that
statement to pay that, because that's you know, forty five
hundred dollars that I don't have to pay out of pocket.
That that money can then be earning interest in the bank.
And by waiting, I'm sticking that to the credit card
companies there for a little bit. But by eliminating that
to where it doesn't even show up, well, get to
use your card, you get to utilize earn those points,
and then you still avoid any sort of negligent credit

(44:30):
scoring side effects. Something else that you could do too
is call the credit card issuer ask them to raise
your credit limits. And that's generally speaking a good thing
to do if you think that your limits might be
a little bit low for how it is that you
spend on them. But that being said, I wouldn't overthink
it because it, like, right now, it sucks to see
your score take a hit like that, But it sounds

(44:51):
like that you're pretty thoughtful about your credit usage. And
my guess is that keeping your utilization low on this
card for a few months will bring your score, you know,
close to where it was, and I personally wouldn't be
too concerned about it, unless perhaps maybe you're looking to
buy a home in the next year or so.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, that's when you want to be hyper vigilant. But
if it's one of those things where you're like, oh, man,
I went from eight ten to seven ninety two, it
doesn't matter, not a big deal. Yeah, we've talked about
that too, where if you're above seven sixty, then you're
going to qualify for the best rates, the best terms.
There's essentially no downside if you if your credit score
is seven to sixty or above. But there's also no

(45:29):
difference between seven ninety and eight twenty in the eyes
of lenders. So improving your score once you've gotten to
that point really does, you know, extra good. So I
get how it can be a little deflating, but I
also wouldn't ascribe more meaning to it than it actually deserves.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Cool. All right, man, let's get back to the beer
that you and I drank during this well or in
the process of drinking, because I think we both tried
to slow our role a little bit because this was
one big beer, buddy, Yes, I was. I've literally never
poured a beer that was so black. I mean I
wish we were already rolling when I was pouring these beers,
because I exclaimed it was like pouring motoroid. I have

(46:07):
literally never poured a beer that was so black and viscous.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
But let's share your thoughts. Sure, yeah, this was huge
in every essence of the word huge, like yeah, w
forty and on the can it says that it spent
over two and a half years in a barrel, or
basically two and a half years in a barrel. Was suppressive, insane.
There were three three different kinds of cinnamon. I don't
know if you noticed that, Matt in this beer from

(46:32):
different continents, which is kind of incredible from tasting. So
this is this is one of those beers that maybe
overdid it almost in my opinion, It was a sweet,
burly beast. There was maple syrup, infused, and so this
one is well but Humble Forager makes incredible beers, and
so yeah, well maybe this one was top notch in
every essence, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was also

(46:53):
a little too much for Joel's dainty palate. It was
a big one to imbib on, and so I appreciate it.
But I also, man, I don't think I could drink
a whole beer like this, because it's just that it's
too much.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
I had already cracked my own and poured it in
my glass before we realized the magnitude of this beer.
But like, it was so big, so boozy, it almost
felt like I was drinking straight molasses, which I thought
was gonna be the biggest problem for you. That just
the sweetness. Yeah, and I think maybe a lot of
it does have to do with the maple syrup that
was infused in this, But there is so much flavor,
like the initial barrel like woody notes. It reminds me

(47:29):
of licking the postage stamp. That's just one of the
ways I describe some of those. Okay notes, But then
you got the vanilla as well. Of course, the cinnamon,
like you mentioned, kind of the that being said, kind
of the perfect beer to enjoy here in the middle
of winter when it's nice and you know, nice and
cold outsides. But I'm still glad we got to enjoy this.
During the episodes of day Study, could you.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Pick out the differences between the Mexican, the Chinese, and
the Sri Lankan cinnamon.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
I've never I've heard of Mexican.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
It almost sounds like a craft beer joke, what nerd
cares about in the fact there's three different kinds of
cinnamons from all these random exotic locations. It's kind of silly.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yeah, like the craft beer nerds kind of went maybe
a little bit too far with this one. Actually, this
makes me did you read the article about how bourbon
Oh yeah, the bourbon market has imploded essentially because of
the demand for it years ago was there and.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
So lurbon takes years and years to plan and make.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
So of course the stillers were doubling down, and we
saw some of these massive warehouses because they're like, there's
only one place that you can make bourbon. Literally, we've
got all these buyers. Dude, that was two years ago.
Two years ago, old man yet again, But I do
wonder when it comes to distilleries and even breweries, just
given there's more. I mean, we've talked about it on
the show how You and I drink less, but especially

(48:37):
given to with the FDA and how they're talking about slapping,
I feel like alcohol is going through what cigarettes went
through back in the eighties and nine essentially.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
But then I tell you our our new local craft
brewery sent me a cubon and in the email they
basically said, hey, thank you for coming in. We've seen
all these craft breweries closing no way, we want to
stand the test of time. Thank you for your patronage.
And so they're trying to say, of myice people to
come in because craft brewers are not doing so well
right now.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
It is a tough time tout for us, the spirit's industry.
That's the free market. Maybe that's capitalism, yeah, which is
what leads like that creative destruction. But still sad of course,
if there's a beloved local brewer that ends up closing night,
I hate to.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
See that, and just as guys who love craft beer
in general.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Indeed, but that's going to be it for this episode.
You can find our show notes up on the website.
At howdomoney dot com, including the article to where Joel
explained how easy it was to open an account with
c T, one of the best online high yield savings
accounts out there. We'll link to that there in the
show notes, but Buddy, that's going to be it for
this episode until next time.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,