April 6, 2023 • 24 mins
In this episode of Hungry For History, we explore how the past has contributed to today's exploitation of farm workers. From the Spanish Conquest in Mesoamerica to the Bracero Program, the establishment of the United Farm Workers of America, and the aftermath of NAFTA - Eva and Maite analyze the dynamics that affect the people who feed us.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We've been on an amazing journey celebrating the history of ingredients.
But there's a layer we haven't really addressed, which is
who is picking our food, which is our people, our community,
nois Today's episode is about food justice and food sovereignty.
(00:20):
My name is Eva Longoria and I am Mian and
welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our
past and present through food. On every episode, we'll talk
about the history of some of our favorite dishous ingredients
and beverages. So make yourself at home, even Brachel. So
(00:44):
you know, I've produced two documentaries on farm workers, one
about child labor in our American farms because people always
go like, well, there's not child labor here, and you're like, yes,
in the United States, there's a lot of child labor
in agriculture. And also I produced another documentary called food Chains,
which really talks about that the chain of oppression as
(01:10):
it relates to food. And we did a documentary specifically
about the Mochley tomato pickers in Florida and how they pick,
I mean all the tomatoes that go to McDonald's win
these like the biggest buyers of it, you know, supermarkets
as well. But they would pick buckets and buckets for like,
(01:32):
you know, fifty cents a bucket of tomatoes, and they
would go to the store and they couldn't afford the
tomato that they had picked, and they couldn't understand it
because they were like, I just picked a bucket, carried
it on on my back, and I got fifty cents
and there must have been a hundred tomatoes in that bucket,
and yet the tomatoes three dollars and the supermarket. So
there's if you have a chance, go check out Food Chains,
(01:54):
a documentary amazing director Sanjay You. If you look at
who was purchasing the largest amounts, it's fast foods and supermarkets.
And so we should really make corporations be more responsible
in fair labor acts and fair labor standards. I know,
it's crazy. I actually when I was researching the tomato episode,
(02:19):
I rewatched your Food Chains documentary and it was really
blown away, just the levels. Right, we don't think about
the human cost of that. Yeah, So what was it
about this particular cause? What was it about migrant farming?
Like what drew you did that? What drew me to
(02:40):
care about where our food comes from is the fact
that I eat, like if you eat, if you eat,
you should care. Yeah, you know, during the pandemic, farm
workers were declared essential workers because it was you know,
we were in shut down. People were still having to
go to the grocery store. You know, we ran out
(03:02):
of toilet paper. But I'll tell you what, we didn't
run out of produce. Yeah, there was still fruit and
vegetables in your supermarket. And that was because farm workers
were showing up every day, often without ppe, without protection,
without COVID testing in those fields, working to keep our
food supply going. And so we didn't need a pandemic
(03:24):
to tell us farm workers are essential to the United
States food system. They're essential every single day. And so
I've I've had a deep interest in where our food
comes from since I was born. I mean, I grew
up on a ranch in Texas and we grew everything.
My dad didn't let us eat fast food. We had
to eat off the land. And if it was squash season,
(03:46):
we ate squash for three months and I was like, Ahi,
hey squash. And then it would come watermelon season and
we'd have watermelon for three months. Like we ate seasonally.
We ate what we grew. And so I knew where
food came from. I knew it came from the ground.
I remember I dated somebody and they didn't know a
carrot came from the ground, and they're like, don't care,
(04:08):
it's come from trees. I was like, okay, we have
to break up. Yes, yeah, how do you not know that?
And so, yeah, it was interesting that I became an
activist and an advocate for farm workers in the way
that I have. But but it's not surprising. I care, right, Yeah,
you care, you care, you care deeply, And yeah, like
(04:30):
the whole thing about essential workers, like you said, it's like,
of course they're essential. They feed us there, they keep
us alive literally, but there's that thing, you know, that dichotomy.
There are essential workers, but they're also treated as disposable, right,
which is really like how do you reconcile? You know that?
(04:52):
And this whole idea of you know, exploitation is something
that has existed since colonization. Well and also like before colonization,
(05:15):
like farming was the earliest human occupation. Yeah, like if
we were farmers and gatherers like before colonization, before enslavement
or the idea of enslavement and monetization of agriculture was
even an ideology or an idea absolutely, I mean, in
(05:36):
farming was one of the earliest occupations and when people
went from from being hunting gatherers to settling, it was
farming that allowed them, you know, to settle and is
how civilizations first emerged. I mean in pre colonial Mexico,
a deep respect was given to farmers, not only because
(05:58):
of the knowledge that they had just planting and harvesting,
but they knew which foods was to honor, you know,
what deity, what food had to be you know, produced
for a specific ritual or festivity. So that was you know,
farmers were a very important part of society because they
(06:20):
didn't just feed to you, but they were so connected
to the cycles of the earth of the land well.
And they were so connected as we already know through history.
If you don't live in a state where there's banned
books or history has been erased from from your history classes,
but we know indigenous people have always had a huge
(06:41):
connection to the earth. There was an amount of respect
to the earth. So when when colonizers came to New
York and you know, the Dutch said how much do
you want for this land? And the Indigenous response was,
we don't own the land. Nobody owns the land. Was like,
that's true. Who says you can own the earth beneath
(07:04):
your feet? And so I've always found that fascinating. Even
you know, pre colonial Mexico, once a year there was
a festival called Etsleep, which meant the day of eating
cooked corn and beans, where all of the tools associated
with planting and harvesting were blessed. So that I find,
(07:25):
you know, so so beautiful. And then of course with
the conquest, indigenous people were forced to work the lands.
They brought over ingredients like sugar, and we talked about
the sort of the grueling harvesting, growing and harvesting or
sugar when we did our sugar episode. But this history
of exploitation has continued to date. So we've we've lost that,
(07:47):
we've lost that connection of the earth well, I mean,
and that's the thing is, like, I mean, it didn't
just start with the Spanish conquest. The exploitation of land
and people really goes back to monarchies. I mean, and
hundreds of years of this subjugation right of people that
are less than you're not royal, We'll give you a
(08:08):
parcel of land. You have to work it, we're going
to tax you. So I don't think it began with
the Spanish conquest, but it was definitely colonization all over
the world. Definitely exploited cheap labor. It came to this
part of the world with colonization, but it didn't really
exist in this part of the world. And farmers pre
(08:29):
colonial Mexico specifically, they weren't upper classes, but they were
treated with respect. This exploitation of workers of land, workers
of farm workers really came, you know, in the sixteenth century.
We've got more after the break, So don't go anywhere.
(09:00):
What is food justice technically, like, what is food justice?
How could we get justice with food within the food industry?
So that the definition of food justice is the right
of communities everywhere to produce, process, distribute, access and eat
good food regardless of race, class, gender, ethnicity, citizenship, you know, religion, community.
(09:22):
It basically ensures freedom from exploitation and the rights of
workers to fair labor practices. There's an amazing book, Fast
Food Nation by Eric sha Shushler I can ever say
his name, that really talks about how the fast food
industry has created a cast system because it's so cheap
(09:43):
to get ten tacos for a dollar Taco Bell. It's
cheaper to feed your family with that than to buy
ahead of broccoli. Yeah, and so that's crazy and so
fast food Nation really you know, explored that food deserts. Right,
like even even you don't even have a grocery store
(10:04):
near you, if you even if you wanted to buy strawberries,
you don't even it's so far out of your neighborhood.
You just, you know what, it's just so much easier
to go by McDonald's. Yeah, exactly. And this is why
there's so much obesity and heart disease and diabetes, and
we see that in our communities. Exactly, in marginalized communities,
(10:27):
there's more of that because they don't have access to
good food. They don't have access to fresh food. So
this is to give food justice for people to be
able to have access. Yeah, they should have access to
the global to the global food systems, like you know,
especially the people that work in that food system. You know,
farm workers really work under the most unimaginable conditions. And
(10:52):
I feel like a lot of people who villainize immigrants
don't under stand we have an industry dependent upon migrant
labor there. If you talk to a lot of farmers,
their farms will go fallow. If that migrant labor doesn't
doesn't make its way seasonally to their farms like they
(11:15):
they lose money. And these are not jobs that Americans want,
you know. They've done many pilot programs to test out,
like instead of being on welfare or instead of being
unemployed in claiming an unemployment check. They've offered these job
openings to Americans and zero applicants apply. They'd rather take
(11:39):
the check than go toil away in the sun in
one hundred and twenty degree heat without water and shade,
and also when you aren't literate enough to understand. Back
in time, due to the Brassetto program, which on paper
may have seemed like an incredible opportunity for Mexican migrants,
it was just another way to exploit the most vulnerable,
(12:01):
and so in between nineteen forty two and nineteen sixty four,
there was this executive order that called the Mexican Farm
Labor It was called the Mexican Farm Labor Program, but
it was it established this Brasseto program, which brassetto means
arms right like almost like open arms you're welcome. You're
welcome to come. And it was like this series of
(12:21):
diplomatic agreements between Mexico and the United States that permitted
millions of Mexicans to work, Mexican men to work legally
in the United States on these short term labor contracts.
And so these agreements really addressed this national agriculture labor
shortage during World War two. And so, like I said,
(12:43):
these farms were going fallow, and we just got out
of the Great Depression, and we had all these deportations
during the Great Depression that unjustly, by the way, targeted
Mexican America who were men. I think thirty percent were
US citizens. Yeah. Um, so then this you know, this
(13:03):
like push and pull of policies because you know, we
just deported all these people, and now let's bring them back.
In nineteen forty two, we aught to bring them back
because we don't have any labor. And it brought almost
four million workers to the US agriculture, not only agriculture,
but the railroads, right, and so you know all of
these like um, border towns like cale Paso, they served
(13:25):
as these recruitment centers for the for the program. And
it's just it was. It was not a good thing.
Like the protocols that were supposed to protect these workers
from from discrimination or poor wages or deducted pay or
exposure to deadly chemicals. None of that happened. None of that.
So it ended. No, they weren't protected. Even I've seen
(13:49):
I've seen videos of them coming into the country at
Eduads and the border of vl Paso. Then they would
they would spray them with pesticides as if they were
you know, dogs with fleas. So that was their welcome
into the US. Yeah, it was horrible, but the program
it lasted twenty two years, and it was literally twenty
two years a cheap labor from Mexico. It had nothing
(14:11):
to do with open arms and welcoming, welcoming these workers
into a system. It was come, we need cheap labor. Yeah,
it's and most of the workers went to Texas or
came to California, to the Central Valley, California. I was
actually there last summer for the first time. I'd never
been to the Central Valley and I felt like I
was in Laredo. It was because of this program a
(14:33):
lot of people ended up staying and having families there.
So this pocket of California in the Central Valley feels
like a border city. I found that just so interesting.
And I, you know, ignorantly didn't know that much about
(14:54):
the program until last summer. That then I was just
really wanted to learn, you know, so much more. And
it's like twenty two years of cheap, you know, labor.
And this goes, you know, hand in hand with the
lords right in the United farm Workers that they started
(15:14):
in the nineteen seventies, but the Lord's word fast started
lobbying for legislation to rip keel the Braco program. The
reason I went to get my master's was because of
Dolores Huh and so I she told me to read
(15:38):
this book. I'd been doing activism with them since before
I was famous, and she, you know, would say things,
and I go to her speeches and rallies and I
would ask her like, but why, what do you mean,
what do you mean there's no water in the fields.
The farmers don't provide water. She said, no, a lot
of the rights that we gained in the sixties have
been dismantled. And I was like, but how, but why?
(16:00):
But I had so many questions and she probably got
tired of me asking and she's like, read this book.
And I read the book and my book the author, Oh,
it's called Occupied America by doctor Rodolfo changed my life.
When I say changed my I was like, oh my god.
And it's really about Mexican American histories, Chicano history in
the United States, but talks everything from pre Columbian civilization
(16:22):
to NAFTA, which we can talk about present day. And
I wrote the author and I was like, I'd love
to have coffee. I just want to talk. And I
saw he was here in California, cal State Northridge, and
I was like, oh my god, that's not too far
and the rest is history. I went and got my
master's because of this book and because of that man,
and because of Dolores. What's so wow? Did you study
(16:44):
with him? I did? I studied. I studied. I took
a class with him. Yeah, he's the godfather of Chicano
studies in the United States. It's the oldest program in
the United States at cal State Northridge. He really invented
the discipline. Fascinating a universe city and so yeah, I mean,
you know what's so interesting is a lot of people
(17:05):
in Mexico don't know the story of Caesar Chobbs and
Dolores because it's a very American, Mexican American fight. And
again because a lot of these people we were talking about,
we're American citizens. Yeah, and so you know, they were
trying to protect the rights of these farm workers and
they did the Great Boycott, which was one of the
(17:25):
most famous boycotts. They did potatoes. I remember Dolores and
her memoir or in one of her books, she talks
about her and Caesar were gettingto huge fights because they
had very different approaches to the activism. But one of
them was we should protest potatoes, and she was like, no,
we should protest grapes. And so they were trying to
figure out, you know, what strike they were going to do,
(17:46):
and they ended up doing grapes and it was very successful.
They did let us, They did a lettuce boycott that
was very successful. So they're unfortunately their work is never ending. Yeah,
because again, the rights you gain you have to fight
to protect. And you know, she's ninety how old is
Dolores ninety two? Now she's still marches, she's still speaks
(18:08):
everywhere over the world, She travels all over the country,
and she's still beating the drum for farm worker rights.
I heard you interview her at the Academy Museum. So
she's extraordinary. I mean she's like electric. You know, she
had everybody sea sep where they at the end and
it was just really you know powerful. So so this
(18:30):
is you know, they started this in the nineteen sixties
and then then of course they're fighting, and then comes NAFTA.
Don't go anywhere, hungry for history, We'll be right back.
(18:51):
It's interesting because NAPTA was during Clinton, the Clinton administration,
and so the implementation of NAPTA was very problematic for
Mexico and it was not good for Mexico. I mean
it was most of most farm workers came from Mexico,
and after the implementation of NAPTA in nineteen ninety, all
(19:13):
these local indigenous communities were hit really hard because cheaper
goods drove up competition and it really devastated local economies
and these small indigenous owned farmlands, not even just indigenous,
small Mexican owned farms. So because many many the migration
north was the only option to make a living. You know,
(19:33):
prior to NAFTA, most of the migrants were actually coming
from central Mexico. Post NAFTA, there were more you know,
from Wahaka and from these other sort of more indigenous regions.
And so now the Central Valley here in California, that's
what two hours away from Los Angeles where we are.
(19:54):
It's home to round one hundred and sixty five thousand
indigenous farm workers from all over Mexico, with different cultures,
with different languages, different dialects. Yeah, so that region is
very multi ethnic. And I will say the thing that's
most effective and farm worker rights is grassroot efforts. And
(20:17):
these efforts are really a response to racism, labor injustices,
denied wages, sexual harassment, living conditions, working conditions, it's it's
it's all, you know, tied together. And there's a couple
of ways, like I do have hope. You know why,
because because if we humanize the issue, which is the
(20:38):
reason I do documentaries, because we could talk about this
all we want on this on this podcast, and we
say statistics and we say percentages, and we say facts
and data. But until you put a face to the issue,
you can't really digest it or comprehend, you know, the
severity of how humanity is lacking with these particular this
(21:06):
particular group of farm workers. And I think I reason
I have hope is because there's there's the UfW, there's
farm Worker Justice, there's um CLAS, which is Sustainable Economic
Enterprises of Los Angeles. There's artists, there's artists, activists, there's
there's so many people, and I think we are on
a day and age where people care where things come from.
(21:28):
There's a lot of people I know that don't wear
fast fashion right because they go, wait, that was made
in a sweatshup in India. I don't want to wear it.
There's people who don't want to drink soy milk or
almond milk because it's going to kill the bees. So
I'm not doing that. Like what you buy says something
about who you are, and I think that we have
to apply that to food. You know, we have to
(21:52):
understand where your food comes from and to you know,
really help and empower migrant and seasonal farm workers so
that we can improve their living conditions. Is a very
small task, especially if you eat absolutely absolutely. I wanted
(22:13):
to mention you mentioned art and when I was in
the Central Valley last summer, I learned about the work
of Narciso Martinez and his work is just extraordinary. He
actually is from Wahaka, moved to California and worked as
a seasonal migrant worker picking apples to pay for his education.
(22:38):
And he's this incredible artist. He gets produce boxes, tapes
them together so you'll see like a brand, you know,
Chiquita Banana or whatever, different brands on the produce boxes,
and he tapes them together and has different migrant workers
depicted on there. I spoke to him once and he
said that when he moved to the States that when
he first got an ID with his picture on it,
(23:01):
he felt so important because he felt like he was somebody.
And so by painting farm workers and these are real people.
These are not just you know, a sort of a
generic you know, they don't represent just a person that
they represent real people just to show, you know that
to make them feel important, because they are important. I
(23:24):
mean some of them are just a produce box and
you have the portrait on the background is gold like
a Byzantine icon. So his work and he's an activist
as well. Like his work I think is so powerful.
It was life changing that that weekend in the Central
Valley last summer was just life changing for me, you know,
(23:47):
just even us doing an episode about this on the
podcast Yeah, is going to be super helpful. I think.
I hope it makes people ponder the next time they
reach for that fruit of vegetable and maybe just pay attention,
pay attention or follow these organizations the Dilurce what if
the foundation is another one UfW farmworker Justice, Like you know,
(24:07):
the main challenge they have is funding, Yes, and it
takes very little funding to create a huge difference in
farm workers lives. So I hope that we'll put up
some resources so you guys can check everybody out and
any little bit helps write anything counts, Yeah, anything, Yeah,
if you eat, you should care absolutely, and we love
(24:28):
to eat, to eat very care. Hungry for History is
an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership with Ihearts my Cola
podcast network. For more of your favorite shows, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
We've been on an amazing journey celebrating the history of ingredients.
But there's a layer we haven't really addressed, which is
who is picking our food, which is our people, our community,
nois Today's episode is about food justice and food sovereignty.
(00:20):
My name is Eva Longoria and I am Mian and
welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our
past and present through food. On every episode, we'll talk
about the history of some of our favorite dishous ingredients
and beverages. So make yourself at home, even Brachel. So
(00:44):
you know, I've produced two documentaries on farm workers, one
about child labor in our American farms because people always
go like, well, there's not child labor here, and you're like, yes,
in the United States, there's a lot of child labor
in agriculture. And also I produced another documentary called food Chains,
which really talks about that the chain of oppression as
(01:10):
it relates to food. And we did a documentary specifically
about the Mochley tomato pickers in Florida and how they pick,
I mean all the tomatoes that go to McDonald's win
these like the biggest buyers of it, you know, supermarkets
as well. But they would pick buckets and buckets for like,
(01:32):
you know, fifty cents a bucket of tomatoes, and they
would go to the store and they couldn't afford the
tomato that they had picked, and they couldn't understand it
because they were like, I just picked a bucket, carried
it on on my back, and I got fifty cents
and there must have been a hundred tomatoes in that bucket,
and yet the tomatoes three dollars and the supermarket. So
there's if you have a chance, go check out Food Chains,
(01:54):
a documentary amazing director Sanjay You. If you look at
who was purchasing the largest amounts, it's fast foods and supermarkets.
And so we should really make corporations be more responsible
in fair labor acts and fair labor standards. I know,
it's crazy. I actually when I was researching the tomato episode,
(02:19):
I rewatched your Food Chains documentary and it was really
blown away, just the levels. Right, we don't think about
the human cost of that. Yeah, So what was it
about this particular cause? What was it about migrant farming?
Like what drew you did that? What drew me to
(02:40):
care about where our food comes from is the fact
that I eat, like if you eat, if you eat,
you should care. Yeah, you know, during the pandemic, farm
workers were declared essential workers because it was you know,
we were in shut down. People were still having to
go to the grocery store. You know, we ran out
(03:02):
of toilet paper. But I'll tell you what, we didn't
run out of produce. Yeah, there was still fruit and
vegetables in your supermarket. And that was because farm workers
were showing up every day, often without ppe, without protection,
without COVID testing in those fields, working to keep our
food supply going. And so we didn't need a pandemic
(03:24):
to tell us farm workers are essential to the United
States food system. They're essential every single day. And so
I've I've had a deep interest in where our food
comes from since I was born. I mean, I grew
up on a ranch in Texas and we grew everything.
My dad didn't let us eat fast food. We had
to eat off the land. And if it was squash season,
(03:46):
we ate squash for three months and I was like, Ahi,
hey squash. And then it would come watermelon season and
we'd have watermelon for three months. Like we ate seasonally.
We ate what we grew. And so I knew where
food came from. I knew it came from the ground.
I remember I dated somebody and they didn't know a
carrot came from the ground, and they're like, don't care,
(04:08):
it's come from trees. I was like, okay, we have
to break up. Yes, yeah, how do you not know that?
And so, yeah, it was interesting that I became an
activist and an advocate for farm workers in the way
that I have. But but it's not surprising. I care, right, Yeah,
you care, you care, you care deeply, And yeah, like
(04:30):
the whole thing about essential workers, like you said, it's like,
of course they're essential. They feed us there, they keep
us alive literally, but there's that thing, you know, that dichotomy.
There are essential workers, but they're also treated as disposable, right,
which is really like how do you reconcile? You know that?
(04:52):
And this whole idea of you know, exploitation is something
that has existed since colonization. Well and also like before colonization,
(05:15):
like farming was the earliest human occupation. Yeah, like if
we were farmers and gatherers like before colonization, before enslavement
or the idea of enslavement and monetization of agriculture was
even an ideology or an idea absolutely, I mean, in
(05:36):
farming was one of the earliest occupations and when people
went from from being hunting gatherers to settling, it was
farming that allowed them, you know, to settle and is
how civilizations first emerged. I mean in pre colonial Mexico,
a deep respect was given to farmers, not only because
(05:58):
of the knowledge that they had just planting and harvesting,
but they knew which foods was to honor, you know,
what deity, what food had to be you know, produced
for a specific ritual or festivity. So that was you know,
farmers were a very important part of society because they
(06:20):
didn't just feed to you, but they were so connected
to the cycles of the earth of the land well.
And they were so connected as we already know through history.
If you don't live in a state where there's banned
books or history has been erased from from your history classes,
but we know indigenous people have always had a huge
(06:41):
connection to the earth. There was an amount of respect
to the earth. So when when colonizers came to New
York and you know, the Dutch said how much do
you want for this land? And the Indigenous response was,
we don't own the land. Nobody owns the land. Was like,
that's true. Who says you can own the earth beneath
(07:04):
your feet? And so I've always found that fascinating. Even
you know, pre colonial Mexico, once a year there was
a festival called Etsleep, which meant the day of eating
cooked corn and beans, where all of the tools associated
with planting and harvesting were blessed. So that I find,
(07:25):
you know, so so beautiful. And then of course with
the conquest, indigenous people were forced to work the lands.
They brought over ingredients like sugar, and we talked about
the sort of the grueling harvesting, growing and harvesting or
sugar when we did our sugar episode. But this history
of exploitation has continued to date. So we've we've lost that,
(07:47):
we've lost that connection of the earth well, I mean,
and that's the thing is, like, I mean, it didn't
just start with the Spanish conquest. The exploitation of land
and people really goes back to monarchies. I mean, and
hundreds of years of this subjugation right of people that
are less than you're not royal, We'll give you a
(08:08):
parcel of land. You have to work it, we're going
to tax you. So I don't think it began with
the Spanish conquest, but it was definitely colonization all over
the world. Definitely exploited cheap labor. It came to this
part of the world with colonization, but it didn't really
exist in this part of the world. And farmers pre
(08:29):
colonial Mexico specifically, they weren't upper classes, but they were
treated with respect. This exploitation of workers of land, workers
of farm workers really came, you know, in the sixteenth century.
We've got more after the break, So don't go anywhere.
(09:00):
What is food justice technically, like, what is food justice?
How could we get justice with food within the food industry?
So that the definition of food justice is the right
of communities everywhere to produce, process, distribute, access and eat
good food regardless of race, class, gender, ethnicity, citizenship, you know, religion, community.
(09:22):
It basically ensures freedom from exploitation and the rights of
workers to fair labor practices. There's an amazing book, Fast
Food Nation by Eric sha Shushler I can ever say
his name, that really talks about how the fast food
industry has created a cast system because it's so cheap
(09:43):
to get ten tacos for a dollar Taco Bell. It's
cheaper to feed your family with that than to buy
ahead of broccoli. Yeah, and so that's crazy and so
fast food Nation really you know, explored that food deserts. Right,
like even even you don't even have a grocery store
(10:04):
near you, if you even if you wanted to buy strawberries,
you don't even it's so far out of your neighborhood.
You just, you know what, it's just so much easier
to go by McDonald's. Yeah, exactly. And this is why
there's so much obesity and heart disease and diabetes, and
we see that in our communities. Exactly, in marginalized communities,
(10:27):
there's more of that because they don't have access to
good food. They don't have access to fresh food. So
this is to give food justice for people to be
able to have access. Yeah, they should have access to
the global to the global food systems, like you know,
especially the people that work in that food system. You know,
farm workers really work under the most unimaginable conditions. And
(10:52):
I feel like a lot of people who villainize immigrants
don't under stand we have an industry dependent upon migrant
labor there. If you talk to a lot of farmers,
their farms will go fallow. If that migrant labor doesn't
doesn't make its way seasonally to their farms like they
(11:15):
they lose money. And these are not jobs that Americans want,
you know. They've done many pilot programs to test out,
like instead of being on welfare or instead of being
unemployed in claiming an unemployment check. They've offered these job
openings to Americans and zero applicants apply. They'd rather take
(11:39):
the check than go toil away in the sun in
one hundred and twenty degree heat without water and shade,
and also when you aren't literate enough to understand. Back
in time, due to the Brassetto program, which on paper
may have seemed like an incredible opportunity for Mexican migrants,
it was just another way to exploit the most vulnerable,
(12:01):
and so in between nineteen forty two and nineteen sixty four,
there was this executive order that called the Mexican Farm
Labor It was called the Mexican Farm Labor Program, but
it was it established this Brasseto program, which brassetto means
arms right like almost like open arms you're welcome. You're
welcome to come. And it was like this series of
(12:21):
diplomatic agreements between Mexico and the United States that permitted
millions of Mexicans to work, Mexican men to work legally
in the United States on these short term labor contracts.
And so these agreements really addressed this national agriculture labor
shortage during World War two. And so, like I said,
(12:43):
these farms were going fallow, and we just got out
of the Great Depression, and we had all these deportations
during the Great Depression that unjustly, by the way, targeted
Mexican America who were men. I think thirty percent were
US citizens. Yeah. Um, so then this you know, this
(13:03):
like push and pull of policies because you know, we
just deported all these people, and now let's bring them back.
In nineteen forty two, we aught to bring them back
because we don't have any labor. And it brought almost
four million workers to the US agriculture, not only agriculture,
but the railroads, right, and so you know all of
these like um, border towns like cale Paso, they served
(13:25):
as these recruitment centers for the for the program. And
it's just it was. It was not a good thing.
Like the protocols that were supposed to protect these workers
from from discrimination or poor wages or deducted pay or
exposure to deadly chemicals. None of that happened. None of that.
So it ended. No, they weren't protected. Even I've seen
(13:49):
I've seen videos of them coming into the country at
Eduads and the border of vl Paso. Then they would
they would spray them with pesticides as if they were
you know, dogs with fleas. So that was their welcome
into the US. Yeah, it was horrible, but the program
it lasted twenty two years, and it was literally twenty
two years a cheap labor from Mexico. It had nothing
(14:11):
to do with open arms and welcoming, welcoming these workers
into a system. It was come, we need cheap labor. Yeah,
it's and most of the workers went to Texas or
came to California, to the Central Valley, California. I was
actually there last summer for the first time. I'd never
been to the Central Valley and I felt like I
was in Laredo. It was because of this program a
(14:33):
lot of people ended up staying and having families there.
So this pocket of California in the Central Valley feels
like a border city. I found that just so interesting.
And I, you know, ignorantly didn't know that much about
(14:54):
the program until last summer. That then I was just
really wanted to learn, you know, so much more. And
it's like twenty two years of cheap, you know, labor.
And this goes, you know, hand in hand with the
lords right in the United farm Workers that they started
(15:14):
in the nineteen seventies, but the Lord's word fast started
lobbying for legislation to rip keel the Braco program. The
reason I went to get my master's was because of
Dolores Huh and so I she told me to read
(15:38):
this book. I'd been doing activism with them since before
I was famous, and she, you know, would say things,
and I go to her speeches and rallies and I
would ask her like, but why, what do you mean,
what do you mean there's no water in the fields.
The farmers don't provide water. She said, no, a lot
of the rights that we gained in the sixties have
been dismantled. And I was like, but how, but why?
(16:00):
But I had so many questions and she probably got
tired of me asking and she's like, read this book.
And I read the book and my book the author, Oh,
it's called Occupied America by doctor Rodolfo changed my life.
When I say changed my I was like, oh my god.
And it's really about Mexican American histories, Chicano history in
the United States, but talks everything from pre Columbian civilization
(16:22):
to NAFTA, which we can talk about present day. And
I wrote the author and I was like, I'd love
to have coffee. I just want to talk. And I
saw he was here in California, cal State Northridge, and
I was like, oh my god, that's not too far
and the rest is history. I went and got my
master's because of this book and because of that man,
and because of Dolores. What's so wow? Did you study
(16:44):
with him? I did? I studied. I studied. I took
a class with him. Yeah, he's the godfather of Chicano
studies in the United States. It's the oldest program in
the United States at cal State Northridge. He really invented
the discipline. Fascinating a universe city and so yeah, I mean,
you know what's so interesting is a lot of people
(17:05):
in Mexico don't know the story of Caesar Chobbs and
Dolores because it's a very American, Mexican American fight. And
again because a lot of these people we were talking about,
we're American citizens. Yeah, and so you know, they were
trying to protect the rights of these farm workers and
they did the Great Boycott, which was one of the
(17:25):
most famous boycotts. They did potatoes. I remember Dolores and
her memoir or in one of her books, she talks
about her and Caesar were gettingto huge fights because they
had very different approaches to the activism. But one of
them was we should protest potatoes, and she was like, no,
we should protest grapes. And so they were trying to
figure out, you know, what strike they were going to do,
(17:46):
and they ended up doing grapes and it was very successful.
They did let us, They did a lettuce boycott that
was very successful. So they're unfortunately their work is never ending. Yeah,
because again, the rights you gain you have to fight
to protect. And you know, she's ninety how old is
Dolores ninety two? Now she's still marches, she's still speaks
(18:08):
everywhere over the world, She travels all over the country,
and she's still beating the drum for farm worker rights.
I heard you interview her at the Academy Museum. So
she's extraordinary. I mean she's like electric. You know, she
had everybody sea sep where they at the end and
it was just really you know powerful. So so this
(18:30):
is you know, they started this in the nineteen sixties
and then then of course they're fighting, and then comes NAFTA.
Don't go anywhere, hungry for history, We'll be right back.
(18:51):
It's interesting because NAPTA was during Clinton, the Clinton administration,
and so the implementation of NAPTA was very problematic for
Mexico and it was not good for Mexico. I mean
it was most of most farm workers came from Mexico,
and after the implementation of NAPTA in nineteen ninety, all
(19:13):
these local indigenous communities were hit really hard because cheaper
goods drove up competition and it really devastated local economies
and these small indigenous owned farmlands, not even just indigenous,
small Mexican owned farms. So because many many the migration
north was the only option to make a living. You know,
(19:33):
prior to NAFTA, most of the migrants were actually coming
from central Mexico. Post NAFTA, there were more you know,
from Wahaka and from these other sort of more indigenous regions.
And so now the Central Valley here in California, that's
what two hours away from Los Angeles where we are.
(19:54):
It's home to round one hundred and sixty five thousand
indigenous farm workers from all over Mexico, with different cultures,
with different languages, different dialects. Yeah, so that region is
very multi ethnic. And I will say the thing that's
most effective and farm worker rights is grassroot efforts. And
(20:17):
these efforts are really a response to racism, labor injustices,
denied wages, sexual harassment, living conditions, working conditions, it's it's
it's all, you know, tied together. And there's a couple
of ways, like I do have hope. You know why,
because because if we humanize the issue, which is the
(20:38):
reason I do documentaries, because we could talk about this
all we want on this on this podcast, and we
say statistics and we say percentages, and we say facts
and data. But until you put a face to the issue,
you can't really digest it or comprehend, you know, the
severity of how humanity is lacking with these particular this
(21:06):
particular group of farm workers. And I think I reason
I have hope is because there's there's the UfW, there's
farm Worker Justice, there's um CLAS, which is Sustainable Economic
Enterprises of Los Angeles. There's artists, there's artists, activists, there's
there's so many people, and I think we are on
a day and age where people care where things come from.
(21:28):
There's a lot of people I know that don't wear
fast fashion right because they go, wait, that was made
in a sweatshup in India. I don't want to wear it.
There's people who don't want to drink soy milk or
almond milk because it's going to kill the bees. So
I'm not doing that. Like what you buy says something
about who you are, and I think that we have
to apply that to food. You know, we have to
(21:52):
understand where your food comes from and to you know,
really help and empower migrant and seasonal farm workers so
that we can improve their living conditions. Is a very
small task, especially if you eat absolutely absolutely. I wanted
(22:13):
to mention you mentioned art and when I was in
the Central Valley last summer, I learned about the work
of Narciso Martinez and his work is just extraordinary. He
actually is from Wahaka, moved to California and worked as
a seasonal migrant worker picking apples to pay for his education.
(22:38):
And he's this incredible artist. He gets produce boxes, tapes
them together so you'll see like a brand, you know,
Chiquita Banana or whatever, different brands on the produce boxes,
and he tapes them together and has different migrant workers
depicted on there. I spoke to him once and he
said that when he moved to the States that when
he first got an ID with his picture on it,
(23:01):
he felt so important because he felt like he was somebody.
And so by painting farm workers and these are real people.
These are not just you know, a sort of a
generic you know, they don't represent just a person that
they represent real people just to show, you know that
to make them feel important, because they are important. I
(23:24):
mean some of them are just a produce box and
you have the portrait on the background is gold like
a Byzantine icon. So his work and he's an activist
as well. Like his work I think is so powerful.
It was life changing that that weekend in the Central
Valley last summer was just life changing for me, you know,
(23:47):
just even us doing an episode about this on the
podcast Yeah, is going to be super helpful. I think.
I hope it makes people ponder the next time they
reach for that fruit of vegetable and maybe just pay attention,
pay attention or follow these organizations the Dilurce what if
the foundation is another one UfW farmworker Justice, Like you know,
(24:07):
the main challenge they have is funding, Yes, and it
takes very little funding to create a huge difference in
farm workers lives. So I hope that we'll put up
some resources so you guys can check everybody out and
any little bit helps write anything counts, Yeah, anything, Yeah,
if you eat, you should care absolutely, and we love
(24:28):
to eat, to eat very care. Hungry for History is
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