February 16, 2023 • 28 mins
Eva and Maite take a trip down memory lane as they explore the unique past of Tex-Mex food. From the unknown history of the San Antonio Chili Queens to the difference between Tejano and Chicano, the ladies dive into the rich cuisine that is Tex-Mex.
Maite's Chili Queen-Style Chile con Carne
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Mike and I are both from Texas, so of course
we've got to talk about text mex food. We have to.
This is exciting. My name is Eva Longoria and I
am and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that
explores our past and present through food. On every episode,
we'll talk about the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients,
(00:24):
and beverages. So make yourself at home. It's been a
thing for me in my marriage because I call text
mex for me is Mexican food, like I've always called
it Mexican food in Texas, and my husband, who's a
Mexican national, Um, we fight about a lot of things,
(00:46):
as we've talked about many times on the podcast, flower
tortillas versus corn tortillas, the burrito, breakfast, tacos, like, there's
just so much. And I I remember when I moved
to Los Angeles, was the first time I heard the
word text x in the like culinary lexicon. I was
just like, oh, well, I mean, yeah, it's Mexican food
(01:06):
from Texas, but yeah, it's tex mex Like. I didn't
really consider it a whole different thing until I really
got versed in in gastronomy and I realized, oh my god,
it is a it's a it's a whole category in itself.
It's a regional cuisine. It is its own thing. A
because even me growing up in Laredo, first generation, the
(01:29):
food that we had at the house was more Mexican food,
not necessarily tex mex right, but of course it's Laredo,
so it is part of that culture. So basically South
Texas it's it's a regional cuisine. It's one of the
oldest cuisines of the area. Right. And originally it's Texas
(01:49):
Mexican food, And like the rest of the you know,
pre colonial food and the rest of Mexico, it was
mostly planned based with lots of prickly pear and pecans
and venison and turkey, And it didn't become this sort
of yellow cheese, greasy fried food until post conquest, right.
(02:09):
And the term text mex didn't really appear until nineteen two.
So not because I don't remember it. I mean, I
know we're talking like conquest and and and stuff like that,
but I don't remember hearing it as an antiquated word
text max seems very modern. The word the word text
mix it is it is and actually Diana Kennedy, who
(02:32):
we talked about in one of the episodes of British
Born Authority on Mexican Food. She was the one that
first used the word text mex in the seventies. She
was basically making a clear distinction between Mexican food and
everything made north of the border, and it was sort
of dismissive. It's like, this is real and that's text max.
But text max food is a centuries old cuisine. This
(02:55):
text mex food that has a lot of cheese, yellow
chee ease and fried and all of that is an
Anglo contribution to the food. Because the first sort of
tex mex restaurants appeared, or what is called text mex now,
appeared in San Antonio soon after Texas became part of
(03:16):
the US and the Mexicans were being driven out of
the city. But all of the Americans that were going
to the city on the text mix railroad um loved
the Mexican food. They just didn't like Mexicans. They like
their food. WHOA okay. In nine there was a restaurateur
(03:40):
from the Midwest. His name was Otis Farnsworth, and he
opened up a restaurant called the Original Mexican restaurant in
the San Antonio River Walk, right, So he created this
sort of model for tex Mex restaurants and people loved it.
That's the first time that we see like the combo plates,
you know, you have like and in La yeah, you're like,
(04:04):
I want the number five and I want the number
two or you know that has these sort of completes
at such a part of the text Mex cuisine. And
that was actually an idea of one of his employees,
a Mexican employee, who was like, oh, let's do this
so that non Spanish speaking Americans can then just see
(04:24):
the pictures in order the number one or the number two.
But the first sort of tex Mex restaurant was created
by a Midwesterner, so not even a Mexican, but in
San Antonio, in San Antonio, So would you say San
Antonio's the cradle of text mex Yes. And and actually
(04:47):
the people that really put Texas Mexican food on the
map were the San Antonio Chili queens. Who are the
San Antonio Chili Queens. They were these amazing women that
in the eight hundreds would actually make chili, which is
a big part of of tex Mex cuisine. Is chili.
(05:07):
So these women would actually make chili, which is basically
meat with it's basically a molle, but more just with chile.
It's more a sort of a simple mole, and then
they would actually sell them make it at home, and
this was their home cooking, right, basically the original text
Mexes like home cooking. So they would take this to
(05:28):
the place as in San Antonio, and people that were
coming into the city. It was such a hub for
tourists and it was like, oh, this new Mexican world,
and they were introducing this Mexican food to this Anglo population.
And it was called garnet con chile, and they would
serve the carne con chile with flower tortilla and gard or.
(05:52):
Originally it was called garnet con chile, and then it
became anglicized into chili concarne, and then it was a chili,
and then it was just chilli. So they would make
it at home and then like loaded onto their wagons
and then go sell it to uh tourists mostly right,
it was tourists. It was people coming through the city, right,
(06:13):
And this was a big part of the allure of
going to San Antonio is to taste the chili from
these women, and they really sort of it became famous.
Everybody wanted to taste the food of these women. Um.
And they were these like sort of badass women. And
sometimes they would play guitar and they were said to
have you know, rolled their own cigarettes with you know,
(06:34):
tobacco and they would roll it in corn husks. But
they were these just incredible businesswomen and they created this
sort of mystique of the Mexican senorita. It was the
San Antonio chili queens. They started in the eighteen hundreds
and then eventually, you know, as time went on, as
a lot more Anglos were moving into San Antonio, they
(06:56):
were being pushed out of the area. First they were
sort of outside of the plazas because it seemed you know,
dirty or unsanitatory um. And then you know, in ninety
seven is when it was like, oh, these women, it's
in sanatory. They were banned and by three they were
completely banned. So we didn't see any of the chili
(07:18):
queens um selling their chili at all anymore. But their
their presence is well documented in like the newspapers like
San Antonio Daily Express in had a review of them
and they were talking about, you know, how these chili
queens were jolly and they were so they were like
ever attentive. And so there's like all of this documentation
(07:42):
about this food in and then there were some food
reviews that also were not favorable because they were like, oh,
this is you know, too hot, too spicy to Mexican.
One of the reviews was the chili queen's food is
fire bricks from Hades. So I'm assuming that I'm assuming
(08:02):
that meant spicy. How yeah, like this is definitely from Hades.
But also that, um, I can see it now because
I you know, we're both from Texas. We have to
take Texas history. Um, growing up, But how the upper
class of San Antonio stall a Mexican food as a
(08:24):
threat to not only white workers, but like the standard
of living. They were like, god forbid, this becomes more
popular than you know, Anglo cuisine. And so I think
that's really interesting how food and politics are pretty parallel.
In the birth of tex mex food. Absolutely, there was
(08:51):
this German born man. His name was William Gebhard, and
he lived in New Brown Falls that's like just just
outside of center. It's like half an hour away. From
San Antonio and he used to go into San Antonio
in the nineties early dred and loved this chili from
the chili queens. But it was fresh, chee less. It
was just really good home cooking. And he was like, ah,
(09:14):
I want to recreate this. So he developed a chili powder.
The gap hard chili powder is a famous chili powder
in Texas that a lot of people use in their chilies.
Um So he would go to San Antonio, he would
taste the chilies. He was figure out how the way.
He would then in port chilanchos from San Luis Potosi
dehydrated these cheeless first he called this powder chili powder
(09:37):
dampico dust and then eventually he made this powder and
he developed this eagle chili powder. This man eight he
published the first text mex cookbook. A German published the
first sort of Texas Mexican cookbook called Mexican Cooking to
(09:58):
educate the America in public about Mexican food. This is
a German guy who did this. And he he was
also the first person to make canned chili and his
chili powder is still super famous. I mean they sell
it everywhere at the A. T. B. It's like it's
like sort of the chili powder, the oldest one. But
(10:19):
it is interesting that the reason you did that was
because if you cooked with fresh chilas, it had to
be seasonal, and so he wanted to create a different
way to have this spice all year round. And so
I thought that was pretty uh innovative of him at
the time, to go, how do we keep this flavor
year round because the chilas were limited seasons. Do do
(10:43):
they do the availability? And so yeah, interesting, But you
know a lot of people don't understand German settlements were
alive and well in Texas. There's so much German heritage
in Texas. That's why that's why banda music is actually
polka music. That's why they no music has a bit
of polka in it because German coming up next Mite.
(11:07):
Then I discussed the background and the idea of being
the handle. Where did the kanoak first come from? That
(11:32):
that word, according to the Texas State Historical Association, it
was defined in denoting a Texan of Mexican descent, So
it's basically a Mexican Texan and Texas Texan Mexican and
it can be you know, the hando could be like
you said, they had no music, had no arch the hand,
(11:54):
no cuisine. It could just be sort of anything from
this area. But one thing that is really interest thing
I think about the area is that we think, you know,
there have been indigenous populations in this area of northern Mexico.
There's like fifty different indigenous nations that lived in the
state of Texas even before the conquest. Right. So there's
(12:17):
the Dongas and the Comanches and the and it's all
of these indigenous groups that when the Spanish came, they
became Hispanic sized and they became sort of Mexican even
though they have deeper roots than that. So this area
is so you know complex, So a lot of Texans
(12:41):
that identify themselves with being Mexican even pre date that
when Texas was Mexico. Right. So it's so many layers
and layers of history. So it's like, oh they hand
o could be that, you know, people that have these
indigenous roots, or it could be people like us. Right,
you've been there for your family has been there for centuries.
(13:03):
My family has been there since the seventies, right, so
not that long. I know you studied Chicano studies, right,
is sort of your thing? Is it the same? Chicano
is more California based. Um, It's a word I never
heard of or used until I moved to a Los
Angeles And I mean Chicano was a politicized invention when
(13:25):
they put it on a census one year to try
to group together basically what we now call Latinos. And
so they were like, let's put this word. And I
think California Mexicans, which are different than Texas Mexicans. California
Mexicans reclaimed the word Chicano and and made it their own.
(13:45):
And so so Chicano became an identity that was full
of pride and was powerful and you know, really aggregated
the Mexicans in California to not only unite against policies
that were targeted to pear down our communities, whether it
(14:07):
was English classes or any other racist policies that were
instilled in a certain time in California. But we kind
of reclaimed the word and it is now evolved into
something I'm very proud of. I'm proud to be called
a Chicana because it is a word that is now
has a bigger spectrum of what it means. It has
(14:28):
a bigger umbrella of what what is under it. But
it is different than at because at Teano is a
Texas Mexican. And so I remember my first class getting
my master's in Chicano studies, and it was just clear
that we were just such a diverse group that we're
not monolithic. You know, all the Hispanics slash Latino slash
(14:52):
Latin X slash whatever we want to identify as we're
We're all so different and in the most beautiful away.
And so I think that where that's most reflected is
in food. It is absolutely in food. Okay, So when
we talk about text mex cuisine were and we talk
(15:13):
about the yellow cheese, we're talking about cheddar cheese, and
cheddar is not really used in Mexico. We don't really
see yellow cheeses. Yeah, yeah, it's ca ceo, which is
also called wahak and cheese. Um, mozzarella is used a
lot in Mexico more than cheddar. You don't see yellow
cheeses at all, Like in Mexico, you don't really see
(15:34):
see and it's probably in Texas it was just more available,
especially with the railroad right that it's easier to get
yellow cheeses from the Midwest than it was to get
cheeses from from Mexico, so it was just more available.
I just get really mad that text Mex food is
really defined by this yellow cheese, which is very processed
(15:58):
American cheese. And I'm like, I wish text mix was
known for something else because it's like popular tex Mex foods. Ok,
so number one, number one, yeah, And so I just
feel like, you know, the definition of of a lot
of tex Mex food is this highly processed American cheese.
(16:19):
So can we make the correlation that it's not the healthiest,
it's not the healthiest because it has become not the healthiest,
but the original food of the region. It does not
have the yellow cheese and does not have all of
this stuff. It's this home cooking that's a lot of
(16:43):
you know, mostly plant based, just like most other Mexican food,
the yellow cheese and the you know, deep frying and
the all of that. That's much more of an Anglo
addition to the food of the region. Craft cheese invented
by James Kraft in the nineteen tents, and he invented
(17:05):
this method that involved heating the cheddar cheese and whipping
air into it, and then it made it more shelf stable,
which we like to call processed exactly so that so
that it could be it could be shipped. And Velvita
is like the culmination of his dream to produce this
like creamy, consumer friendly cheese, but that has a lot
(17:30):
of things in it. It's highly processed, it lasts forever,
and so it was it worked. It was easy for people.
You don't have to go to the store that often.
And it's just it's it's he developed this this stuff.
And there are early you know, cookbooks like Junior League cookbooks,
Ladies Club cookbooks from the area or from Texas um
(17:50):
with recipes for Velvita or American cheese, which is this
cheddar cheese that we're talking about, suggesting that people of
all classes ate it. Right. So it's so interesting when
become food becomes a class thing, right, it's like, oh yeah, yeah,
everybody eats this this yellow cheese. After the break, we're
going to talk about some of our most popular text
(18:12):
Mex dishes and the Freedo Pie. Don't go anywhere I
(18:38):
use Rotel in everything. I literally travel with Rotel because
to have tomatoes and green chilies together in this beautiful
marriage you can put. I put it in my in
my refried beans, I put it in my child beans.
I put it in my guest so I put it
in my fidel. I put it in my right I
(19:00):
put rotel and everything because it's so easy. And when
I'm in a country like I am in Spain right
now and they don't have obviously a cann of rotel,
I try to look for the ingredients separately and make
my own rotel, it doesn't come out the same. And
I was reading that rotel was birthed in Texas. Yeah,
I had honestly had never even heard of rotel before
(19:23):
I started doing the text mex research. Not I've never
heard of it. Now I have to get it. And
it's this signature blend of tomatoes canned with spicy green cheeless.
It was invented by Carl Rotel in Elsa, Texas. I
don't even know where Elsa, Texas is. I know where Elsa,
Texas is in South Texas. Elsa, Texas is where where
(19:46):
our ranch were, Like it's in edinb near Edinburgh and McAllen.
It's like over there in Hidalgo County. Yeah. So it's
super South Texas. But is this guy. So his name
was Carl or Carlos, Carl Rotel, and it's it's spelled
r o e t t e l e so spelled different.
And then he thought that the customers would find it
(20:07):
really difficult to pronounce his name, so it was shortened
to row our oh dash t e l. It's it's
one of my favorite products to cook with. And maybe
it's because I'm a I'm text mex Yeah, yeah, totally,
that's so funny. A couple of other I think text
mix staples is the way we make in Chi Laudas
(20:30):
because there's in Chi Laudas in Mexico. But I think
in Chi Laudas and Texas are super different than oh gosh,
than in Chi Laudas in Mexico. Completely different, yeah, completely different.
I feel like in Chi Ladas in Texas it's mostly red,
the red sauce. It's more human, right, and there they
(20:51):
have the yellow cheese or they have the yellow cheese
on top. In Mexico, there are so many other variations.
There's the green ones, there's a more lan Chi Ladas,
there's a salt like different ones, but they're very different
than the Texas ones. Yeah, if I make Mexican in
chi la das, like in Mexico, I I cook my chicken,
(21:11):
I put it in my salsa. I usually use a
white cheese. I used Grandma Mexicana, Like it's definitely a
different sour cream, not sour cream when I cook. In
the States, there was this brand called Wolf Brand Chili.
Did you eat Wolf Brand Chili growing up? I never
had chili growing up at home because in my house
(21:34):
it was you know, more Max not the texmex So
I've never had can chili. Like even to this day,
I would have, well, maybe I have probably like going,
you know, somewhere else, but yeah, I never had an
chiladas with chili or anything like that. Oh my god,
that's the only in Chilada. I knew. My mom would
buy these cans of Wolf Brand chili, which is chili conte,
(21:55):
and there was a recipe on the back of the
can on how to make the anchi laudas. And that's
like I've searched my whole life for Wolf bar and chili. Um,
there's a place that sells it in California, but it's
mostly a text mex brand, and you just heat up
the chili and you cook your tortilla, roll it in
the chili topic with the yellow cheese and it's delicious.
(22:16):
My best friend from Texas for her birthday, she always
asked me, will you please make me wolf brand in
Chi la Las. Yeah, that's also that. The thing that's
very Texas, very thick on a very text Mex for me,
I grew up with it was the Freedo pie. Grew
up with the Freedo pie and school, not at home,
(22:37):
but in school. It's basically a Freedo bag, opened up
the Freedo bag and then with adult with like a
huge scoop of chili. It's the text mix chila quiles.
I didn't realize it was basically chila quiles, you know,
but it is. But now I love Freedo pies. I
(22:58):
had it every day for lunch, I think for years
straight in high school and the fact that it was
like a lunch item at school was like, I wonder
if it's I mean, it's that is it's so Texas.
They would slice the bag, the snack bag, so like
the individual serving, you slice it on the side, not
the top, the side, and you just pour your chili
(23:19):
right into the Friedo bag and then you put the
cheese on it. I mean, honestly, anything with Friedo. Friedo's
are the most delicious thing in the world. I have
to say, I love Friedo's. They're the best o. Their
text mixings, the puffy tack. Yes, frying corn tortillas in
general is a text Mexing, not just for foppy tacos
(23:41):
I make I I fry more tortillas for a lot
of things. Uh, And so I think that the frying
of the corn tortilla is not Mexican. Mexicans just heated
up on the comal. But then you also have things
like in Yucatan you have and those are fried It's
basically like a puffy taco. They're fried corn mass other
a little bit thicker, but it's the similar idea, right,
(24:04):
So sort of frying it and then shaping it and
also putting like the you know, the sweat of the
iceburg lattice. Yeah, you know all of that, and the
and the puffy cheese. And there's also fajitas of course,
that's a very Texas thing. Text max Northern Mexico, which
is grilled skirts, skirt steak, although and I don't know
if that's it's text mex but also in northern Mexico
(24:26):
they just call it arara, so it's a different sort
of thing. But it's basically there's so much meat in
the area. Um texts is heavy, heavy, heavy meat. Well
we call in Mexico they called to stadas we call
It's same thing, right, but there was the same thing, yeah,
just because I grew up calling them both la status
(24:50):
at home, it was outside it was it's the same thing.
Here's the other thing in Mexico. Taquitos or tackles are
a rolled flouts called in Mexico they call them taquitos.
And the other probably my favorite, this is my favorite
(25:12):
text mex food is breakfast tackles. So breakfast tackles is like,
there's like this whole controversy, right, San Antonio claims to
invent of the breakfast. That got time to invent of
the frad fast second. But it's like, isn't breakfast? Aren't
they just like a thing? I mean, I remember there
was a place in Laredo called It was a restaurant
(25:33):
and they used to have like their breakfast tackles were amazing.
But it's just a flower tortilla, right, right with. I mean,
how is it a text that's I don't understand how
it's a text Mexday. Well, first of all, because it
has a flower tortilla right in itself. That's okay. Because
here's the thing. In Mexico, even in the north where
they eat flower tortillas in Monterrey, they're very thin and translucent.
(25:57):
They're very different text. Mex flower tortillas are thick like
a pea bread. They're thick like non like Indian bread.
You know, they're thick. And so that in itself makes
a breakfast taco very different. So you make which I
make them every morning. I make breakfast tacos every morning.
I make my flower tortillas from scratch. They're very thick.
(26:20):
And then you make potato and egg. You can make
chod swan egg. I make bean tacos every morning. And
when you go in Texas, everybody has breakfast tacos in Texas,
and it's a whole competition of like who, especially in
San Antonio, where I also live, is like this competition
of who has the best breakfast tacos? And it's like
(26:41):
chod swag are my favorite bean tacos usually bean in
cheese is super popular, but I do bean. I don't
like the cheese. I there's this restaurant that every time
I go to Laredo, I always have to go to.
It's down the street from my house. It's called Danny's
and it's a it's like a local Laredo chain. They
have the best breakfast tacos. I don't eat eggs, but
(27:02):
there's I will eat eggs there. That's the only place
that eggs. But they have machado, which is the dried streateedy,
which is very northern norther Yeah, that's very Northern Mexico.
In Laredo you see it a lot as well. I
don't know if you could consider it text Max or
if it's more Northern Mexico. But in Laredo you see
(27:23):
a lot of machado, and it's that cooked together in
a breakfast taco. Oh my god, it's it's it's amazing.
It's the most delicious thing. So I guess it's more
of a of a of a Laredo text mex thing
because it's the I normally like them really paper thin,
but these are like thick and kind of chewy and delicious.
(27:47):
I'm so happy, y'all. Went on this uh basically tripped
down memory lane with Mike than I with Tex Mex
to Max. So good, so good, Thank you for list today.
Hungry for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership
(28:08):
with I Hearts Michael podcast Network. For more of your
favorite shows, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Mike and I are both from Texas, so of course
we've got to talk about text mex food. We have to.
This is exciting. My name is Eva Longoria and I
am and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that
explores our past and present through food. On every episode,
we'll talk about the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients,
(00:24):
and beverages. So make yourself at home. It's been a
thing for me in my marriage because I call text
mex for me is Mexican food, like I've always called
it Mexican food in Texas, and my husband, who's a
Mexican national, Um, we fight about a lot of things,
(00:46):
as we've talked about many times on the podcast, flower
tortillas versus corn tortillas, the burrito, breakfast, tacos, like, there's
just so much. And I I remember when I moved
to Los Angeles, was the first time I heard the
word text x in the like culinary lexicon. I was
just like, oh, well, I mean, yeah, it's Mexican food
(01:06):
from Texas, but yeah, it's tex mex Like. I didn't
really consider it a whole different thing until I really
got versed in in gastronomy and I realized, oh my god,
it is a it's a it's a whole category in itself.
It's a regional cuisine. It is its own thing. A
because even me growing up in Laredo, first generation, the
(01:29):
food that we had at the house was more Mexican food,
not necessarily tex mex right, but of course it's Laredo,
so it is part of that culture. So basically South
Texas it's it's a regional cuisine. It's one of the
oldest cuisines of the area. Right. And originally it's Texas
(01:49):
Mexican food, And like the rest of the you know,
pre colonial food and the rest of Mexico, it was
mostly planned based with lots of prickly pear and pecans
and venison and turkey, And it didn't become this sort
of yellow cheese, greasy fried food until post conquest, right.
(02:09):
And the term text mex didn't really appear until nineteen two.
So not because I don't remember it. I mean, I
know we're talking like conquest and and and stuff like that,
but I don't remember hearing it as an antiquated word
text max seems very modern. The word the word text
mix it is it is and actually Diana Kennedy, who
(02:32):
we talked about in one of the episodes of British
Born Authority on Mexican Food. She was the one that
first used the word text mex in the seventies. She
was basically making a clear distinction between Mexican food and
everything made north of the border, and it was sort
of dismissive. It's like, this is real and that's text max.
But text max food is a centuries old cuisine. This
(02:55):
text mex food that has a lot of cheese, yellow
chee ease and fried and all of that is an
Anglo contribution to the food. Because the first sort of
tex mex restaurants appeared, or what is called text mex now,
appeared in San Antonio soon after Texas became part of
(03:16):
the US and the Mexicans were being driven out of
the city. But all of the Americans that were going
to the city on the text mix railroad um loved
the Mexican food. They just didn't like Mexicans. They like
their food. WHOA okay. In nine there was a restaurateur
(03:40):
from the Midwest. His name was Otis Farnsworth, and he
opened up a restaurant called the Original Mexican restaurant in
the San Antonio River Walk, right, So he created this
sort of model for tex Mex restaurants and people loved it.
That's the first time that we see like the combo plates,
you know, you have like and in La yeah, you're like,
(04:04):
I want the number five and I want the number
two or you know that has these sort of completes
at such a part of the text Mex cuisine. And
that was actually an idea of one of his employees,
a Mexican employee, who was like, oh, let's do this
so that non Spanish speaking Americans can then just see
(04:24):
the pictures in order the number one or the number two.
But the first sort of tex Mex restaurant was created
by a Midwesterner, so not even a Mexican, but in
San Antonio, in San Antonio, So would you say San
Antonio's the cradle of text mex Yes. And and actually
(04:47):
the people that really put Texas Mexican food on the
map were the San Antonio Chili queens. Who are the
San Antonio Chili Queens. They were these amazing women that
in the eight hundreds would actually make chili, which is
a big part of of tex Mex cuisine. Is chili.
(05:07):
So these women would actually make chili, which is basically
meat with it's basically a molle, but more just with chile.
It's more a sort of a simple mole, and then
they would actually sell them make it at home, and
this was their home cooking, right, basically the original text
Mexes like home cooking. So they would take this to
(05:28):
the place as in San Antonio, and people that were
coming into the city. It was such a hub for
tourists and it was like, oh, this new Mexican world,
and they were introducing this Mexican food to this Anglo population.
And it was called garnet con chile, and they would
serve the carne con chile with flower tortilla and gard or.
(05:52):
Originally it was called garnet con chile, and then it
became anglicized into chili concarne, and then it was a chili,
and then it was just chilli. So they would make
it at home and then like loaded onto their wagons
and then go sell it to uh tourists mostly right,
it was tourists. It was people coming through the city, right,
(06:13):
And this was a big part of the allure of
going to San Antonio is to taste the chili from
these women, and they really sort of it became famous.
Everybody wanted to taste the food of these women. Um.
And they were these like sort of badass women. And
sometimes they would play guitar and they were said to
have you know, rolled their own cigarettes with you know,
(06:34):
tobacco and they would roll it in corn husks. But
they were these just incredible businesswomen and they created this
sort of mystique of the Mexican senorita. It was the
San Antonio chili queens. They started in the eighteen hundreds
and then eventually, you know, as time went on, as
a lot more Anglos were moving into San Antonio, they
(06:56):
were being pushed out of the area. First they were
sort of outside of the plazas because it seemed you know,
dirty or unsanitatory um. And then you know, in ninety
seven is when it was like, oh, these women, it's
in sanatory. They were banned and by three they were
completely banned. So we didn't see any of the chili
(07:18):
queens um selling their chili at all anymore. But their
their presence is well documented in like the newspapers like
San Antonio Daily Express in had a review of them
and they were talking about, you know, how these chili
queens were jolly and they were so they were like
ever attentive. And so there's like all of this documentation
(07:42):
about this food in and then there were some food
reviews that also were not favorable because they were like, oh,
this is you know, too hot, too spicy to Mexican.
One of the reviews was the chili queen's food is
fire bricks from Hades. So I'm assuming that I'm assuming
(08:02):
that meant spicy. How yeah, like this is definitely from Hades.
But also that, um, I can see it now because
I you know, we're both from Texas. We have to
take Texas history. Um, growing up, But how the upper
class of San Antonio stall a Mexican food as a
(08:24):
threat to not only white workers, but like the standard
of living. They were like, god forbid, this becomes more
popular than you know, Anglo cuisine. And so I think
that's really interesting how food and politics are pretty parallel.
In the birth of tex mex food. Absolutely, there was
(08:51):
this German born man. His name was William Gebhard, and
he lived in New Brown Falls that's like just just
outside of center. It's like half an hour away. From
San Antonio and he used to go into San Antonio
in the nineties early dred and loved this chili from
the chili queens. But it was fresh, chee less. It
was just really good home cooking. And he was like, ah,
(09:14):
I want to recreate this. So he developed a chili powder.
The gap hard chili powder is a famous chili powder
in Texas that a lot of people use in their chilies.
Um So he would go to San Antonio, he would
taste the chilies. He was figure out how the way.
He would then in port chilanchos from San Luis Potosi
dehydrated these cheeless first he called this powder chili powder
(09:37):
dampico dust and then eventually he made this powder and
he developed this eagle chili powder. This man eight he
published the first text mex cookbook. A German published the
first sort of Texas Mexican cookbook called Mexican Cooking to
(09:58):
educate the America in public about Mexican food. This is
a German guy who did this. And he he was
also the first person to make canned chili and his
chili powder is still super famous. I mean they sell
it everywhere at the A. T. B. It's like it's
like sort of the chili powder, the oldest one. But
(10:19):
it is interesting that the reason you did that was
because if you cooked with fresh chilas, it had to
be seasonal, and so he wanted to create a different
way to have this spice all year round. And so
I thought that was pretty uh innovative of him at
the time, to go, how do we keep this flavor
year round because the chilas were limited seasons. Do do
(10:43):
they do the availability? And so yeah, interesting, But you
know a lot of people don't understand German settlements were
alive and well in Texas. There's so much German heritage
in Texas. That's why that's why banda music is actually
polka music. That's why they no music has a bit
of polka in it because German coming up next Mite.
(11:07):
Then I discussed the background and the idea of being
the handle. Where did the kanoak first come from? That
(11:32):
that word, according to the Texas State Historical Association, it
was defined in denoting a Texan of Mexican descent, So
it's basically a Mexican Texan and Texas Texan Mexican and
it can be you know, the hando could be like
you said, they had no music, had no arch the hand,
(11:54):
no cuisine. It could just be sort of anything from
this area. But one thing that is really interest thing
I think about the area is that we think, you know,
there have been indigenous populations in this area of northern Mexico.
There's like fifty different indigenous nations that lived in the
state of Texas even before the conquest. Right. So there's
(12:17):
the Dongas and the Comanches and the and it's all
of these indigenous groups that when the Spanish came, they
became Hispanic sized and they became sort of Mexican even
though they have deeper roots than that. So this area
is so you know complex, So a lot of Texans
(12:41):
that identify themselves with being Mexican even pre date that
when Texas was Mexico. Right. So it's so many layers
and layers of history. So it's like, oh they hand
o could be that, you know, people that have these
indigenous roots, or it could be people like us. Right,
you've been there for your family has been there for centuries.
(13:03):
My family has been there since the seventies, right, so
not that long. I know you studied Chicano studies, right,
is sort of your thing? Is it the same? Chicano
is more California based. Um, It's a word I never
heard of or used until I moved to a Los
Angeles And I mean Chicano was a politicized invention when
(13:25):
they put it on a census one year to try
to group together basically what we now call Latinos. And
so they were like, let's put this word. And I
think California Mexicans, which are different than Texas Mexicans. California
Mexicans reclaimed the word Chicano and and made it their own.
(13:45):
And so so Chicano became an identity that was full
of pride and was powerful and you know, really aggregated
the Mexicans in California to not only unite against policies
that were targeted to pear down our communities, whether it
(14:07):
was English classes or any other racist policies that were
instilled in a certain time in California. But we kind
of reclaimed the word and it is now evolved into
something I'm very proud of. I'm proud to be called
a Chicana because it is a word that is now
has a bigger spectrum of what it means. It has
(14:28):
a bigger umbrella of what what is under it. But
it is different than at because at Teano is a
Texas Mexican. And so I remember my first class getting
my master's in Chicano studies, and it was just clear
that we were just such a diverse group that we're
not monolithic. You know, all the Hispanics slash Latino slash
(14:52):
Latin X slash whatever we want to identify as we're
We're all so different and in the most beautiful away.
And so I think that where that's most reflected is
in food. It is absolutely in food. Okay, So when
we talk about text mex cuisine were and we talk
(15:13):
about the yellow cheese, we're talking about cheddar cheese, and
cheddar is not really used in Mexico. We don't really
see yellow cheeses. Yeah, yeah, it's ca ceo, which is
also called wahak and cheese. Um, mozzarella is used a
lot in Mexico more than cheddar. You don't see yellow
cheeses at all, Like in Mexico, you don't really see
(15:34):
see and it's probably in Texas it was just more available,
especially with the railroad right that it's easier to get
yellow cheeses from the Midwest than it was to get
cheeses from from Mexico, so it was just more available.
I just get really mad that text Mex food is
really defined by this yellow cheese, which is very processed
(15:58):
American cheese. And I'm like, I wish text mix was
known for something else because it's like popular tex Mex foods. Ok,
so number one, number one, yeah, And so I just
feel like, you know, the definition of of a lot
of tex Mex food is this highly processed American cheese.
(16:19):
So can we make the correlation that it's not the healthiest,
it's not the healthiest because it has become not the healthiest,
but the original food of the region. It does not
have the yellow cheese and does not have all of
this stuff. It's this home cooking that's a lot of
(16:43):
you know, mostly plant based, just like most other Mexican food,
the yellow cheese and the you know, deep frying and
the all of that. That's much more of an Anglo
addition to the food of the region. Craft cheese invented
by James Kraft in the nineteen tents, and he invented
(17:05):
this method that involved heating the cheddar cheese and whipping
air into it, and then it made it more shelf stable,
which we like to call processed exactly so that so
that it could be it could be shipped. And Velvita
is like the culmination of his dream to produce this
like creamy, consumer friendly cheese, but that has a lot
(17:30):
of things in it. It's highly processed, it lasts forever,
and so it was it worked. It was easy for people.
You don't have to go to the store that often.
And it's just it's it's he developed this this stuff.
And there are early you know, cookbooks like Junior League cookbooks,
Ladies Club cookbooks from the area or from Texas um
(17:50):
with recipes for Velvita or American cheese, which is this
cheddar cheese that we're talking about, suggesting that people of
all classes ate it. Right. So it's so interesting when
become food becomes a class thing, right, it's like, oh yeah, yeah,
everybody eats this this yellow cheese. After the break, we're
going to talk about some of our most popular text
(18:12):
Mex dishes and the Freedo Pie. Don't go anywhere I
(18:38):
use Rotel in everything. I literally travel with Rotel because
to have tomatoes and green chilies together in this beautiful
marriage you can put. I put it in my in
my refried beans, I put it in my child beans.
I put it in my guest so I put it
in my fidel. I put it in my right I
(19:00):
put rotel and everything because it's so easy. And when
I'm in a country like I am in Spain right
now and they don't have obviously a cann of rotel,
I try to look for the ingredients separately and make
my own rotel, it doesn't come out the same. And
I was reading that rotel was birthed in Texas. Yeah,
I had honestly had never even heard of rotel before
(19:23):
I started doing the text mex research. Not I've never
heard of it. Now I have to get it. And
it's this signature blend of tomatoes canned with spicy green cheeless.
It was invented by Carl Rotel in Elsa, Texas. I
don't even know where Elsa, Texas is. I know where Elsa,
Texas is in South Texas. Elsa, Texas is where where
(19:46):
our ranch were, Like it's in edinb near Edinburgh and McAllen.
It's like over there in Hidalgo County. Yeah. So it's
super South Texas. But is this guy. So his name
was Carl or Carlos, Carl Rotel, and it's it's spelled
r o e t t e l e so spelled different.
And then he thought that the customers would find it
(20:07):
really difficult to pronounce his name, so it was shortened
to row our oh dash t e l. It's it's
one of my favorite products to cook with. And maybe
it's because I'm a I'm text mex Yeah, yeah, totally,
that's so funny. A couple of other I think text
mix staples is the way we make in Chi Laudas
(20:30):
because there's in Chi Laudas in Mexico. But I think
in Chi Laudas and Texas are super different than oh gosh,
than in Chi Laudas in Mexico. Completely different, yeah, completely different.
I feel like in Chi Ladas in Texas it's mostly red,
the red sauce. It's more human, right, and there they
(20:51):
have the yellow cheese or they have the yellow cheese
on top. In Mexico, there are so many other variations.
There's the green ones, there's a more lan Chi Ladas,
there's a salt like different ones, but they're very different
than the Texas ones. Yeah, if I make Mexican in
chi la das, like in Mexico, I I cook my chicken,
(21:11):
I put it in my salsa. I usually use a
white cheese. I used Grandma Mexicana, Like it's definitely a
different sour cream, not sour cream when I cook. In
the States, there was this brand called Wolf Brand Chili.
Did you eat Wolf Brand Chili growing up? I never
had chili growing up at home because in my house
(21:34):
it was you know, more Max not the texmex So
I've never had can chili. Like even to this day,
I would have, well, maybe I have probably like going,
you know, somewhere else, but yeah, I never had an
chiladas with chili or anything like that. Oh my god,
that's the only in Chilada. I knew. My mom would
buy these cans of Wolf Brand chili, which is chili conte,
(21:55):
and there was a recipe on the back of the
can on how to make the anchi laudas. And that's
like I've searched my whole life for Wolf bar and chili. Um,
there's a place that sells it in California, but it's
mostly a text mex brand, and you just heat up
the chili and you cook your tortilla, roll it in
the chili topic with the yellow cheese and it's delicious.
(22:16):
My best friend from Texas for her birthday, she always
asked me, will you please make me wolf brand in
Chi la Las. Yeah, that's also that. The thing that's
very Texas, very thick on a very text Mex for me,
I grew up with it was the Freedo pie. Grew
up with the Freedo pie and school, not at home,
(22:37):
but in school. It's basically a Freedo bag, opened up
the Freedo bag and then with adult with like a
huge scoop of chili. It's the text mix chila quiles.
I didn't realize it was basically chila quiles, you know,
but it is. But now I love Freedo pies. I
(22:58):
had it every day for lunch, I think for years
straight in high school and the fact that it was
like a lunch item at school was like, I wonder
if it's I mean, it's that is it's so Texas.
They would slice the bag, the snack bag, so like
the individual serving, you slice it on the side, not
the top, the side, and you just pour your chili
(23:19):
right into the Friedo bag and then you put the
cheese on it. I mean, honestly, anything with Friedo. Friedo's
are the most delicious thing in the world. I have
to say, I love Friedo's. They're the best o. Their
text mixings, the puffy tack. Yes, frying corn tortillas in
general is a text Mexing, not just for foppy tacos
(23:41):
I make I I fry more tortillas for a lot
of things. Uh, And so I think that the frying
of the corn tortilla is not Mexican. Mexicans just heated
up on the comal. But then you also have things
like in Yucatan you have and those are fried It's
basically like a puffy taco. They're fried corn mass other
a little bit thicker, but it's the similar idea, right,
(24:04):
So sort of frying it and then shaping it and
also putting like the you know, the sweat of the
iceburg lattice. Yeah, you know all of that, and the
and the puffy cheese. And there's also fajitas of course,
that's a very Texas thing. Text max Northern Mexico, which
is grilled skirts, skirt steak, although and I don't know
if that's it's text mex but also in northern Mexico
(24:26):
they just call it arara, so it's a different sort
of thing. But it's basically there's so much meat in
the area. Um texts is heavy, heavy, heavy meat. Well
we call in Mexico they called to stadas we call
It's same thing, right, but there was the same thing, yeah,
just because I grew up calling them both la status
(24:50):
at home, it was outside it was it's the same thing.
Here's the other thing in Mexico. Taquitos or tackles are
a rolled flouts called in Mexico they call them taquitos.
And the other probably my favorite, this is my favorite
(25:12):
text mex food is breakfast tackles. So breakfast tackles is like,
there's like this whole controversy, right, San Antonio claims to
invent of the breakfast. That got time to invent of
the frad fast second. But it's like, isn't breakfast? Aren't
they just like a thing? I mean, I remember there
was a place in Laredo called It was a restaurant
(25:33):
and they used to have like their breakfast tackles were amazing.
But it's just a flower tortilla, right, right with. I mean,
how is it a text that's I don't understand how
it's a text Mexday. Well, first of all, because it
has a flower tortilla right in itself. That's okay. Because
here's the thing. In Mexico, even in the north where
they eat flower tortillas in Monterrey, they're very thin and translucent.
(25:57):
They're very different text. Mex flower tortillas are thick like
a pea bread. They're thick like non like Indian bread.
You know, they're thick. And so that in itself makes
a breakfast taco very different. So you make which I
make them every morning. I make breakfast tacos every morning.
I make my flower tortillas from scratch. They're very thick.
(26:20):
And then you make potato and egg. You can make
chod swan egg. I make bean tacos every morning. And
when you go in Texas, everybody has breakfast tacos in Texas,
and it's a whole competition of like who, especially in
San Antonio, where I also live, is like this competition
of who has the best breakfast tacos? And it's like
(26:41):
chod swag are my favorite bean tacos usually bean in
cheese is super popular, but I do bean. I don't
like the cheese. I there's this restaurant that every time
I go to Laredo, I always have to go to.
It's down the street from my house. It's called Danny's
and it's a it's like a local Laredo chain. They
have the best breakfast tacos. I don't eat eggs, but
(27:02):
there's I will eat eggs there. That's the only place
that eggs. But they have machado, which is the dried streateedy,
which is very northern norther Yeah, that's very Northern Mexico.
In Laredo you see it a lot as well. I
don't know if you could consider it text Max or
if it's more Northern Mexico. But in Laredo you see
(27:23):
a lot of machado, and it's that cooked together in
a breakfast taco. Oh my god, it's it's it's amazing.
It's the most delicious thing. So I guess it's more
of a of a of a Laredo text mex thing
because it's the I normally like them really paper thin,
but these are like thick and kind of chewy and delicious.
(27:47):
I'm so happy, y'all. Went on this uh basically tripped
down memory lane with Mike than I with Tex Mex
to Max. So good, so good, Thank you for list today.
Hungry for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership
(28:08):
with I Hearts Michael podcast Network. For more of your
favorite shows, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
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