December 22, 2023 • 39 mins
If you’re looking for a little comfort this holiday season, look no further than a classic Hallmark Christmas movie. There you’ll find an uncomplicated world of quaint small towns covered in snow, magical family moments with hot cocoa and single girls looking for love in all the right places. Why are these films so popular despite their somewhat retrograde ideas about what everybody wants? In this special holiday episode, Susie will explain to Jess why she watches these sweet, simple movies despite - or maybe because of - how silly they often seem.
In Retrospect is taking a little break for the holidays. Thank you for listening to our first season and look for new episodes starting Feb. 2, 2024!
FOR MORE:
- How Hallmark Took Over Cable Television (The New Yorker, 2019)
- Nobody Told Hallmark Channel That Cable Is Dead (New York Magazine, 2023)
- Christmas Under Wraps Trailer (Hallmark Channel/YouTube, 2014)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Everything is very soothing in a Hallmark movie. Yeah, like fires,
fires are always roaring it, eating is always happening, it,
tons of hot cocoa. I'm Susie Bannacharam and I'm Jessica Bennett.
And this is In Retrospect, where each week we revisit
a cultural moment from the past that shaped us.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And that we just can't stop thinking about.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Today, we have a special holiday version of In Retrospect
where we're going to talk about the past and present
of Hallmark Christmas movies. Hm, yes, have you ever watched
a Hallmark Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Movie, Susie, I'm proud to say the answer to that
is no.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Well, I cannot say the same. I have watched.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
How could I have guessed?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So many Christmas movies this season that the other day
Mike walked in on me watching one and said, Mike
your boyfriend, Mike my boyfriend, and said, how many of
these have been already watched this season? And I did
not like the judgment in his voice. I was like,
what is that tone, mister, No, he was actually laughing.
(01:09):
He thought it was hilarious, but I feel like some
judgment about it. So I thought it would be interesting
to query why I'm so interested or into these movies.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Okay, I want to hear that. But also, what is
a Hallmark?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
What makes something? Are these movies produced by Hallmark?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Like? What am I missing here?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, yeah, this is a great question. Hallmark Christmas movies
are made by Hallmark.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Like the card company.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, the card company. The maximare on the Hallmark Channel,
which is where Hallmark Christmas movies are aired.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
What channel is that? Like, that's a channel on tele.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That's a channel on television as part of the cable package. Yes, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I don't have cable growing up, so okay, yeah that.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Makes sense, but this is very confusing for you. Okay.
So actually it started as the combination of two religious
channels that came together and became a Christian network called
the Faith and Values Channel.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Oh my god, that makes sense. Why they're like so strident?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yes, well they're not actually striding. They're very soothing. But
we're gonna get to that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Okay, we'll get to that.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And so it started as a religious thing. Then there
was a rebrand in two thousand and one and that's
when it became the Hallmark Channel, and the original content
had very explicitly religious and traditional themes. Okay, And it
wasn't really until the twenty tens when the channel began
to be known for these made for TV movies romance comedies,
(02:33):
and then really it begun to be known for Christmas
movies in particular when it started this thing called count
Down to Christmas in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Count Down to Christmas coming this October Holy on Hallmark.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And that is literally like every night to Christmas, they
premiere I don't know if it's every night, but they
premiere all the new Christmas movies of that season.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Okay, so you've been really busy.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I've been very busy. That's one way of betting it.
And the idea is that these movies evoke the same warm,
traditional values that Hallmark greeting cards. And I don't know
if growing up you ever went to a Hallmark store,
but I always loved the Hallmark store. They have greeting
cards and ornaments, and so it's supposed to evoke those
same feelings in you. And I should say that I'm
(03:24):
not the only one watching these movies because that's how
I feel.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Talking to me. Yeah, I think I'm the minority here.
People love these.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
To give you an idea of what a big business
it is. It is literally defying the fate of most
other cable channels. Hallmark is one of the most popular
cable channels on television. New York Magazine recently did a
piece called Nobody told Hallmark Channel that cable is Dead,
and in it it mentioned that it is not uncommon
for Hallmark to have the most watched program in all
(03:56):
of cable on any given night, Wow, especially during the holidays.
Okay and per Nielsen, Hallmark Channel is the number two
most watched entertainment channel of twenty twenty three, just behind HDTV,
but ahead of other channels that people watch a lot,
like TNT and USA and Food Network. And also in
the last week of November, they premiered seven brand new
(04:18):
Hallmark Christmas movies and that pushed the channel to be
the number two most watched channel across all of cable,
not just entertainment cable, meaning that it beat Fox News.
And of those seven movies, six of them were watched
by more than one point seven million people on their
premiere night, so that's just the people who watched it
(04:39):
on the first run. Most of these movies are run
over and over again, and they've made for this season
forty original movies just to air in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
So what are they about? Like, is there really that
much to say? Why are there so many movies?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
What are they about?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Well, they're all very formulaic, they're all very very similar.
They have a lot of rules, there's a standard story format.
Now some of this is starting to change a little
bit as these shows have become more popular and as
there's more diversity and inclusion. But the traditional formula is basically,
this a relatable single, sometimes very recently single, like a
(05:22):
girl who's just literally broken up with her boyfriend or
isn't single scandalous, but her boyfriend is a big dumb
jerk and you hate him right away, and it's clear
you're supposed to hate him.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
That's always a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
It's always like a boyfriend, yes, And so this single
girl has lost faith in love. She's pursuing life in
the big city and somehow she ends up in a
small town for some reason. She's either going home for
the holidays. Okay, Sometimes she's a reporter who's working on
a story about a secret Santa that nobody knows the
identity of okay, okay. Sometimes she has an accident and
(05:58):
she has amnesia and she's like God all down and
she falls in love but she doesn't know who she is. Like,
it's always some ex case for why she's now in
this idyllic.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Town, like snow.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
There's snow everywhere. And a thing that Hallmark actually says
themselves is that a classic Hallmark Christmas movie has to
have Christmas in every frame, meaning every single shot the
movie has to have some element of Christmas, like an
ornament or a tree or a PUCKI like, there has
to be something visually that indicates its case.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So like there's no Jews.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
In well, now there are Jews. Now They've released like
a few Hallmark movies that are Honka movies. So the
match maker was right, Hanka on Rye on Hallmark. But
that is fairly recent. So again we're just talking about
the basic formula that has existed for years. We'll talk
about kind of what's happening now later. But so here's
(06:55):
this girl. She's in this small town and she meets
a handsome local man, a kind of modern prince charming,
and almost always he is also single, but sometimes he
also has an awful girlfriend who doesn't appreciate how sweet
and perfect he is. And his job is always something
like baker.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Or are you living a Hallmark movie?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm kind of living a homework movie. Is a baker
your Yeah? He really rejects that comparison, because trust I've
made it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yes, all right, So they're bakers or bakers, or there.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Are firemen, or they are the owner of the local
Christmas tree lots. Okay, they're usually small business owners or
small town kind of charmers. And while she spends time
with this charming stranger, he reminds her of the simpler
joys of small town life. So community and warmth and comfort.
(07:52):
Everything is very soothing in a Hallmark movie. Yeah, like fires,
fires are always roaring, ice skating is always happening, tons
of cocoats showering hot co coat like caroling, caroling, there's
always caroling. So often there's also I just want to say,
a child involved. Okay, Sometimes the man has a child
(08:12):
and his wife has passed. They try not to talk
about divorce a lot, but sometimes he's divorced, and less
often the woman has a child, and the child is
always like adorable and precocious, and the way the formula
works is there's also kind of a formula to the
story structure. So she gets to the town, she meets
the stranger somewhere, they start to get to know each
(08:34):
other a little bit better. There's a near kiss about
three quarters of the way through the movie.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Okay, you can time it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, And then eventually there is like a challenge they face,
or a challenge to their relationship or a misunderstanding that
briefly pulls them apart, and then they're brought back together
by the end. And there is one perfect chaste kiss
at the end of every movie, and that is the happy.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Ending, and that's end.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That's it, and that's the end.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So wait, tell me some of the ones you've watched
so far this season.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
The thing is, I can't really tell them all apart,
so like I won't be able to tell you all the.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Name, but I've watched so romantic like what it's a
general plot.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So yeah, there's really a romance component to all of these.
But I want to say that the fantasy isn't really
just about romance. I mean, that's certainly part of it,
but it's also just kind of an idyllic world where
everybody loves their family, and everyone's really supportive of each other,
and everything is incredibly optimistic, like it is a world
(09:52):
that is very different from the world we live in,
and so there are these rules that govern this world.
And some of these rules are explicit. Hallmark executives have
talked about these rules, and some of them are less
explicit but clear. If you are a consumer of many
of these films, which I am, so here are some
(10:13):
of the rules that I have put together for you.
So it always has to be too conventionally attractive, very
classically American, traditionally white main characters. In recent years, there's
been some diversification and race and sexuality, but that's kind
of the standard setup. And then a lot of the
(10:34):
stars are not super famous, but they're recognizable from some
sitcom or teen show you watched as a kid, so
like Lacey Schever of Party of five fame and Danica
mckeller from The Wonder Years who played Winnie Cooper. Holly
Robinson Pete from twenty one Jump Street was the most
prominent black actress on the network for a long time.
(10:56):
Now there are others. Even Megan Markle was into Mark
movies when she was just an actor from suits and
not married to Prince Harry?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Do these pay a lot of money? Like this is
this like good money for actors?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yes, actually a lot of actors compare the Hallmark system
to the old school studio system because actors can sign
exclusive contracts with these networks. It just means that there's
steady work, good pay, decent hours. Like it's the kind
of thing where if you get into the Hallmark system,
which is actually not easy to do, then you can
have steady work every year. And these movies shoot fast,
(11:33):
so it's a very efficient process.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's like a journalist doing corporate work on the side
kind of. It's a fun their art.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
The Christmas movies generally get shot in fifteen days. There's
like minimal takes. It's really efficient and affordable. Yeah, most
of them are shot in Canada, so they use existing locations.
They don't have to use sound stages. So there is
like a whole industry around this that just churns out
these Christmas movies and it's a year long process because
(12:03):
they have to all be made and ready to go.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And like, if you're an actor, is this the kind
of thing where you're like, don't put that one on
my website.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think actually a lot of these actors get really
into it. Like there's an annual convention every year called
Christmas Con, which I wanted to go to for this episode,
but they rejected me. They said they didn't have room
for podcasters this year. So I'm just like, very offended. Wow,
But a lot of the actors from these movies have
been posting from Christmas Con, Like Jesse Metcalf, who's one
(12:33):
of the male stars who used to be an actor
on Desperate Housewives. He was posting from there just a
couple of days ago. Chad Michael Murray from One Tree
Hill is one of.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
The great This is basically a world that I just
had no idea.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
No idea existed, but it is a whole universe.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
And Okay, so they're proud.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So they're proud of it. I mean to dismiss them, no,
I mean, I'm sure there are some people who you
know wouldn't be but I think you know, if you're
a working actor and it's been a while since you've
been cast in something, and you get plugged into the system,
this is a great way to have regular work. And
I think they all.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Become a lot of chunky sweaters.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, I think they've become friends. It's like uplifting content.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Okay, great, so okay, so let's go.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Back to the role. So the rules are the vibe
has to always be uplifting and a little magical, like
there's no darkness in this world. The world makes sense here.
There's no evil, there's no war, there's no bamin. Okay, Yeah,
it's kind of nice. So very deliberately, there are no politics.
The former CEO told The New Yorker for an article
(13:33):
once that the only thing we promote is pet adoption.
We make no apologies about that. It's very clearly apolitical.
And I think that's because the accusation was always that
they were conservative because they came from a religious background.
But they're actually trying to stay out of politics. And
(13:54):
I want to mention another thing which I think makes
them very soothing, which is there's rarely economic hardship of
any kind. Like yeah, yeah, small towns and small businesses
aren't doing great in the real world, but in these
small towns, the small businesses.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Detroit businesses on the street shutter or whatever, everything is viable.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Sometimes there's like a challenge like business is down or
Dad wants to retire and sell the business, but that
challenge is always met and everything is fine by the
end of the movie. And another thing that's interesting is
that there are usually some hyjiinks and disagreements, but they
literally cannot be too angry. When the New Yorker reporter
(14:36):
who did that article I mentioned was on set, she
witnessed a scene where the guy seemed really angry and
the director was like, cut, like you got to take
it down a notch, like you're too mad.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
They're not like doxing each other on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Nobody is doxing each other on Twitter. Nobody is having
like a crying jag and like throwing things. It is
a very civilized world, okay, and the relationshi are all
basically healthy. Sometimes there are mad cap misunderstandings, but at
the root of this are good people who just love
(15:10):
each other, families who get along. All the children are
adored and cherished. Parents are either kind of saints or imperfect,
but only because they're misunderstood. And it's very important to
note that there's also very little sex in these rightbe
like just like chaste kisses near kisses, but there's no
(15:34):
heat in these movies. It's all very safe.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Do they get a rating?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
No, I mean, if they got a rating, it would
yeah miss PG. Yeah, but it's I mean, I think
it would be less than I don't know what less
than PG is, but it would be done it less
than PG. And you know, I mentioned the Christmas and
every frame, and what that means is that there have
to be heartwarming holiday themes all through the movie. Christmas
tree decorating, cookie baking, coco, Christmas lights, snowball fights like,
(16:01):
there have to be a million cliches about Christmas kind
of thrown in, and then ultimately there's always the happy ending.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So why do you like these?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I mean, let's be but this sounds horrible, This sounds
like so corny.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Why do you like this?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Okay, that's a great question. So first of all, yes,
it's incredibly corny. And obviously I know you well enough
to know that you hate corny things, so I knew
that you would find this hilarious but also disturbing. And
so I have spent a lot of time thinking about
it in the last couple of weeks as I've been
thinking about what we're going to talk about, and I
think for me, it just represents a certain kind of
(16:55):
Americana and small town life, which as an immigrant, is
what I thought America was, like that idealized version of
America is what you imagine America is when you come
here and your life is nothing like that. You come
from a world where there certainly is war and politics
and danger, and your life has just been completely thrown
(17:19):
into disarray and you're far from your family, like you
don't have this sweet world, and you imagine that that's
the world everyone else has. So I think for me
they represent this kind of comforting idea that there is
a part of the world that makes sense, right, and
you know, I.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Feel it makes a lot of sense until you realize
unfortunately it's not like it's not.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, Well, what you're saying is is that it's a fantasy,
which of course it is. So now I obviously know that.
I mean I think I always kind of inherently knew that.
But the reason I think it's kind of important around
the holiday season is I think that's a time where
people really feel not having those fantasy family life, Like
if you're someone who doesn't have a big family or
(18:09):
doesn't have a family you know, or lost your parent
or whatever. This is a time where you feel very alone,
you know, like the holidays can feel really isolating, and
so I think a lot of people just watch these
movies as a way to feel the warmth that they're
not getting in their personal lives, right, And I think
(18:29):
also the formulaic nature is very appealing to me. If
I'm honest, I don't really have to be watching. It's
a second screen activity, like I usually just put it on,
and I know the basic plot points are always essentially
the same, so I can be doing other things. I
can be like texting or doing.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I feel like maybe the few times i've I don't know,
been in other people's houses where they've been played, they're
like they're on in the background, and like you can
go in and out.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's kind of like background noise in a way. And
sometimes they're good, like you're like, oh, this is actually
kind of entertaining me, and so you dial in. But
for the most part it's just this sid of soothing
Christmas background, Like there's.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Right with like some nice music, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Like some Christmas music gets played, some adorable children come
out in like costumes. You know. It's just like a
kind of nice vibe to have in the background. It
kind of makes my brain feel smooth like butter. Okay,
that's how it feels like. I have a lot of anxiety,
as you know, and so sometimes I just want to
watch something that just like irons out all the kinks
(19:30):
in my brain. But I thought, what would be funny
would be for me to describe to you the plot
of the most popular Hamewark Christmas movie of all time,
because it's fairly deranged in ways that I find really amusing.
This is definitely a movie I've seen more than once.
(19:51):
I don't know if I've ever seen it like start
to finish. Because the other thing about Homemwark Christmas movies
is I have cable, right, which a lot of people
don't have. But if you have cable, well, one of
the benefits of it is that you just happen upon them.
You know. It's like you're just flipping through channels.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And you're like, are they on other channels too?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
No, But they did make a deal this year with Peacock,
and so now some Hallmark movies are available on Peacock,
and now lots of other people make Christmas movies. But
you know, it's kind of one of those things where
if there's nothing else on, I'll just default around Christmas
to Hallmark and just like have it on in the background.
So this movie, I can't just like wait to tell
(20:28):
you all about it. So this movie is called Christmas
under Wraps and it stars Candice Cameron Beret, who is
arguably the Queen of Christmas movies. She has been in
so many of them. She has starred in four of
the ten most viewed Christmas movies on Hallmark. Okay, this
(20:49):
movie debuted in twenty fourteen, and it to this day
holds the record for Hallmark's highest ever broadcast premiere. Like
it is credited by Hallmark executives as being the breakthrough
moment for Christmas programming on the channel, and it re
airs every year. So an important thing to kind of
understand about the ecosystem is that they make all these
(21:09):
new movies every year, but then they mix in all
these old movies that you remember, and that's also kind
of part of the appeal. It's like when people watch
Friends over and over again, like it's kind of familiar
and soothing to have one of these show up. So
here's the story of Christmas under Wraps. After a breakup.
(21:32):
Doctor Lauren Brunel played by Candice Cameron Beret is forced
to move to Alaska for a new job.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Okay, Alaska.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, so she's been passed over for a prestigious fellowship
in Boston and her boyfriend breaks up with her.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Everything I've worked for my entire life is gone.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
She temporarily accepts an offer to go practice in a
small town called Garland, Scarland, Alaska. Get it, it's got.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A Christmas theme.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
No, the towns are never real. Okay, the towns are
always like these Evergreen or whatever big names, and this
job is supposed to be temporary while she waits for
another chance at the Boston fellowship. When she gets to Alaska,
she meets Andy, who is a handsome local handyman. Welcome
to Garland, doctrepreneurs. She quickly starts to fall in love
(22:21):
with Garland, but as Larren becomes more familiar with the town,
she starts to notice some odd things. Most people in
this town actually work for. Andy. The adorable handyman she
met when she arrived, his father, Frank, who owns a
warehouse business called Holiday Shipping because okay, their last name
(22:43):
is Holiday, and Frank likes to eat cookies for breakfast.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And she can't quite figure out what Frank's business exactly
is beyond shipping, but she starts to get to know
Andy better and it turns out that used to be
an architect in Seattle, but he moved home because his
dad really needs help with the family business.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Okay, okay, what is the family business?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Donlanta?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Okay, okay, Christmas wait, just wait.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
He confides in Lauren that he's ambivalent about his future,
and here is the almost kissed moment. And then later
there's an emergency and Lauren is summoned to the holiday home,
but when she gets there, she realizes it's not a
medical emergency that she's been summoned for. But there's a reindeer,
(23:38):
and the reindeer indeed injured Rudy presumably short for Rudolph,
who is injured. His ankle is injured, and it's a
crisis because they need him to be well for the
Christmas eve Dot festival. Okay, okay, So still she's like
things here are strange, but.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
She's like, I don't get it, I don't care.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
What is happening here? That feels what did it all mean?
And you know, but she's smart, so she's starting to
become suspicious something strange as a foot. Well she is
a doctor, right.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So okay, and so how to fix Rudy's foot?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
She patches up Rudy's ankle. She does, yes, and everyone
is extremely grateful, and then some other things happen. I
won't get into, but it's important to note that somewhere
in all of this, Andy gets Lauren a Christmas tree
and they decorate it together.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
This is the best Christmas I've ever had. And then
they kiss.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Nope, the kiss doesn't come until the end. It's just
near kisses until the end. I'm sure they bake some
cookies or go ice skating. I don't remember all the
fun Christmas ectoky, but that's like how there are Romance unfolds.
And then right after all of that comes the challenge.
Lauren finds out that a spot has opened up in
Boston after all, So she tells Andy, ok that she's leaving,
(25:00):
and you know, she can't give up what she's wanted
her whole life, and they're both really sad. And the
question here is, Jessica, is this going to be the
first time that a Christmas movie doesn't have a happy ending.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Oh okay, but maybe the happy ending is like getting
her executive shop.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Okay, you are clearly wrong about that, Like what are
you even thinking of? The happy ending is never that
the career girl goes back to her career, right, she
always discovers that small town life is better than her
like New York career.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So wow, okay, so what happens?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So that's so silly, but obviously I'm wrong. There will
be a happy ending. Before Lauren can leave, Andy gets
a call that his father has collapsed, and so they
rush to be by his side, and Andy is so
worried about his father's health that he realizes that he
has to help his dad with the business. Again. No
one is being explicit about what the business is, right,
(25:55):
but in seeing him and his dad come together, Lauren
has a real zay of her own. She's decided she's
going to stay in Garland. She turns down the fellowship,
and she goes to find Andy at the Christmas festival
to tell him, and then they kiss and it is
a happy ending after all. But one last thing. It
(26:16):
turns out that Frank is in fact Santa Claus.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Okay, so does that mean she's I guess she's not
gonna be Missus Claus.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, she's gonna be a homemaker.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
One day she's gonna be Missus Claus. She's gonna be
a doctor. And the way we find out that Frank
is in fact Santa Claus is he comes out in
a full Santa outfit in a sleigh being led by
Rudy the reindeer, and then it like goes up into
the air your way, and that's how the movie ends.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Are these like okay, like this is like kitch, Like
this is like ella, wel this is so ridiculous, or
this is like like I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Where you want to watch?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Maybe it's just like you're trying to get away from
your family. Well, I mean I think that's some of it,
and this is something to do.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Some of it is like you're just trying to look
for entertainment anywhere you can find it. I think that
for a lot of people who watch it, Like for me,
it is kitsch, Like I find it hilarious, Like it's
unintentionally a comedy for me, right, Like I'm like he's
stay on a clause like that's the story.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, Okay, that's like, it's funny when you tell it.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Right, But I don't know that that's how it's intended,
but certainly how I receive it. So I think, like
I would love to hear from people who have different
reasons why they love these movies. For me, it's always hilarious,
and the more deranged the storyline, the more I love
it because I'm just like, what's.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Happening, Yeah, that's fun. I could see that.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
You can kind of see that, right, And I think
there are people who putat like Hallmark Christmas games like
drinking games, where like when something happens, you know, there's
a lot of ways to make it fun. But I
think what's interesting is it. Candice Cameron Beret herself is
like a really interesting part of the Hallmark universe because
she really is the Queen of Christmas or the Queen
(28:04):
of Hallmark Christmas. But you know, I don't know how
much you know about her, but she's quite conservative. She's
an openly conservative celebrity, obviously of which there are not
a ton and she's been creating content for the channel
since two thousand and eight, and her first Hallmark movie
was called Moonlight and Mistletoe and just FYI, Tom Arnold,
(28:25):
Wasn't it just okay? But in twenty twenty two, she
announced that she was ending her contract with Hallmark and
she was going to go to this other channel called
the Great American Family Channel, which she claimed was more
in line with her traditional and religious values. And this
created a controversy because it seemed very much like a
(28:47):
veiled way of saying. She rejected that there were now
LGBTQ themes and more diversity in the stories, and this
is what she said at the time, my heart wants
to tell stories that have more meeting and purpose and
depth behind them. I know that the people behind Great
American Family were Christians that loved the Lord and wanted
(29:08):
to promote faith programming and good family entertainment.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Where they're like some gay uncles in Missletoe and Mischief.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Holiday Missletoe and whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So they had started to kind of introduce characters that
were obliquely gay, like they would have two men who
were friends. They would never explicitly talk about their being gay,
but you could kind of get a sense. But at
this point they make movies where there are two leads
who are gay and who end up together. There has
been a push towards more diversity and inclusion on the channel,
(29:44):
and there was kind of this scandal because at some
point there was an ad on the channel from a
wedding registry site where two lesbians kissed, and a conservative
group started to organize a boycott, and initially they pulled
the commercial, but then there was a boycott of the
channel from the other side, and competitors like Netflix and
(30:06):
other streamers who now make these movies touted that they
have more LGBTQU diversity. So Hallmark reversed its decision and
said it would reinstate the advertisements and work with GLAD
and other LGBTQU groups to have more inclusive programming. All
of that happened in twenty nineteen, so that was before
she kind of made the statement that made it clear
(30:28):
that she wanted more Love of the Lord in her programming.
And she said this thing which was very coded but clear,
which is she was like, Hallmark is now a completely
different network than when I started, thanks to a change
in leadership by Candace.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
By Candace yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't miss her, but this
was like a big thing in the Hallmark universe.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
So I think I I mean, I have no connection
to Hallmark movies whatsoever except for one thing, which is
that my friends that I grew up with Neil bloodsoe
we went to high school together.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
He's like a pretty.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Well known Hallmark actor or like this type of still
family versus Hallmark whatever, Like he was on very you know,
he was a successful actor in other realms, and he
started doing Hallmark movies. He starred at one point in
something with Winnie Cooper whose name I forget, but who
you mentioned earlier, Dank and mckeller, Oh yeah, Dank and mckeller.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And then when this all.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Was happening, he took a stand and was like, I'm out.
If you can't support LGBTQ issues, that's not a network
that I want.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
To be involved in.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And so there were all these headlines about Neil my
high school dance tolo date.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Being the right kind of ally.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Okay, So I just googled this and you're right, So
this is actually exactly what we're talking about. Neil, I
guess had also gone over to Great American Family. So
basically Great American Family was started by this guy who
used to run Hallmark, this guy Bill Abbott, who sort
of created this concept, and after all of this stuff
(32:09):
happens with the lesbian ad, he abruptly leaves the channel
in February of twenty twenty, and he starts trying to
recruit the famous actors of Hallmark to come over to
Great American Family, which he sort of strategically says is
going to be more traditional, but never explicitly says that
(32:31):
it's not going to have inclusion or LGBTQ, etc. So
when Candice makes these remarks two years later, it becomes
a controversy, and Neil was, I guess signed on to
make some films with the Great American Family Channel, and
he said he would no longer do that, So hopefully
he's still making Hallmark movies and wants to come on
(32:52):
and tell us all about that, because I want to
hear everything about that experience.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, but I'm curious. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah. See, now, aren't you more curious about what it's
like to be part of this world?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Kind of?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Not? Really? Well, Neil, I really appreciate you, even if
your friend Jessica from high school can't understand why.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
No, I appreciate what he did. I just don't know
that I need to watch the movie anyhow.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Okay, so is there a movie that you're currently watching
right now?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh, I mean, I don't like always even watch a
movie to the end. Sometimes I'll just watch take an
hour of it and finish. Like I'm not like Dvring.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
The movie I gotcha.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
I'm not like, in the middle of a movie, I'm
trying to think if I watched anything last night. I mean,
I'll just sort of flip through channels and sometimes there'll
be one that I know. There's another famous canvas Cameron
beret one where she plays twins, like she plays both parts.
They're sisters that are estranged and they swap lives, and
for some reason, even though that movie is very bad,
(33:56):
I love it. So whenever that's on, I watch it.
There's a lot of theme around Royalty, so it'll be
like small town girl gets asked to be a nanny
in fake European country like Genovia, you know, and she'll
go there to be the nanny, and she'll fall in
love with like her charges brother who happens to be
(34:17):
the prince, you know. Okay, there's a lot of these
kind of Yeah, I mean, essentially that's what it is.
It's a fairy tale about what life could be like
in a fantasy. I remember once I actually brought this
up with my therapist, like it was a holiday season
where I was feeling a little depressed and I was like,
I just like, why don't I have a family like this?
(34:39):
And she was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, that's deranged, Like these are fantasies.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Nobody has families like this, Like this is not the
real world. And yeah, I mean honestly, what I thought
in that moment is I can't believe I people someone.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, like, get out of New York City, you careerist.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, do you think that? I take it.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
You can take your baker boyfriend with you, because clearly
he belongs in a small town.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Open up your little bagel shop.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And I just want you to know that I do
want to move to a small town and open up
a bagel shop. And Mike is like, no, I want
to live in New York, Like why would I want
to go to some small town. So I don't know,
he's just like refusing to participate in my fantasy. But okay,
I guess that's a happy ending of its own, because
I'm pretty sure if I ended up in some small town.
(35:33):
I'd be tearing my hair out in like a week.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
So or maybe you would love it, maybe I would
love it.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I think we can leave this episode here. Do you
feel like you know everything you need to know about
Hallmark movies? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I think I know enough, and I will file this
away in my head and I'm still never going to
watch them.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
All Right, Well, I feel like my job here is done.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Then great work, Happy holidays, Susie.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Just before we wrap this episode up, I wanted to
take a moment to acknowledge some of the ideas that
our listeners have been sending in. So every week we've
been asking you to tell us what you think we
should explore, and as we wrap up season one, we're
getting ready to tackle all of these new subjects for
season two.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And we love some of these ideas that have been
sent in.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, I mean, we've had such great response, and I
just want you guys to know we read every email
and every DM and I love all of them. And
I always say that I kind of want to write
a thank you note, like a handwritten thank you note
to all of you. So if you DM me your address,
I probably will do that. But yeah, let's go so
over some of these ideas because you know, we have
great episodes coming up, but hopefully there'll be an opportunity
(36:46):
to incorporate some of these. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
One that I am really excited about came from Beth Lipton,
who actually sent it a couple of great ones about
Lilith Fair and the riot girl.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Era of the nineties. I was always so upset I
didn't go to Lilith Fair.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I know too. I mean I have seen Indigo Girls
in concert like five times, so I feel like it's
kind of the closest you're going to get to Lill Affair.
But I am really sad I missed it.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
And there has been a funny TikTok going around recently
of a young person being like, what there was a
festival that was all women, So I think good fodder
for us.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, and also maybe it will inspire someone to make
another Lill Affair, like I would totally go to that.
Now that's sent in another good idea about doing something
around Sandy's transition in Greece, like how she had to
become a bad girl together die And I love that.
There's a great thing in here about something I don't
know about, but I feel like, I should do a
lot of research on which is Mariah Carey's Glitter Meltdown.
(37:46):
I'm like, I want to know everything about that.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
I don't know what that is from Maddy Lambert, Yes,
that's Maddie. We'll look cut up.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, I think that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
But all of these are so great and we hope
people and listeners will keep keep sending them because we
really do look into them and maybe we'll pursue them.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So thank you, yeah, thank you so much. We really
love all of you. This is in Retrospect. Thanks for listening.
Is there a cultural moment you can't stop thinking about
and want us to explore in a future episode. Email
us at Inretropod at gmail dot com, or find us
on Instagram at in retropod.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
If you love this podcast, please rate and review us
on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. If you
hate it, you can post nasty comments on our Instagram,
which we may or may not delete.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
You can also find us on Instagram at Jessica Bennett
and at suzb NYC. Also check out Jessica's books Feminist
Fight Club and This Is eighteen.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
In Retrospect is a production of iHeart Podcasts and the Media.
Lauren Hanson is our supervising producer. Derek Clements is our
engineer and sound designer. Sharon Attiya is our researcher and
associate producer.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Our executive producer from the media is Cindy Levy. Our
executive producers from iHeart are Anna Stump and Katrina Norvelle.
Our artwork is from Pentagram, additional editing help from Mary
Doo and Mike Coscarelli. Sound correction and mastering by Amanda
Rose Smith. We are your hosts Susie Banacarum.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
And Jessica Bennett. We're also executive producers. For even more,
check out in retropod dot com. See you next week.
Everything is very soothing in a Hallmark movie. Yeah, like fires,
fires are always roaring it, eating is always happening, it,
tons of hot cocoa. I'm Susie Bannacharam and I'm Jessica Bennett.
And this is In Retrospect, where each week we revisit
a cultural moment from the past that shaped us.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And that we just can't stop thinking about.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Today, we have a special holiday version of In Retrospect
where we're going to talk about the past and present
of Hallmark Christmas movies. Hm, yes, have you ever watched
a Hallmark Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Movie, Susie, I'm proud to say the answer to that
is no.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Well, I cannot say the same. I have watched.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
How could I have guessed?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So many Christmas movies this season that the other day
Mike walked in on me watching one and said, Mike
your boyfriend, Mike my boyfriend, and said, how many of
these have been already watched this season? And I did
not like the judgment in his voice. I was like,
what is that tone, mister, No, he was actually laughing.
(01:09):
He thought it was hilarious, but I feel like some
judgment about it. So I thought it would be interesting
to query why I'm so interested or into these movies.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Okay, I want to hear that. But also, what is
a Hallmark?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
What makes something? Are these movies produced by Hallmark?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Like? What am I missing here?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, yeah, this is a great question. Hallmark Christmas movies
are made by Hallmark.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Like the card company.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, the card company. The maximare on the Hallmark Channel,
which is where Hallmark Christmas movies are aired.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
What channel is that? Like, that's a channel on tele.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That's a channel on television as part of the cable package. Yes, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I don't have cable growing up, so okay, yeah that.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Makes sense, but this is very confusing for you. Okay.
So actually it started as the combination of two religious
channels that came together and became a Christian network called
the Faith and Values Channel.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Oh my god, that makes sense. Why they're like so strident?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yes, well they're not actually striding. They're very soothing. But
we're gonna get to that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Okay, we'll get to that.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And so it started as a religious thing. Then there
was a rebrand in two thousand and one and that's
when it became the Hallmark Channel, and the original content
had very explicitly religious and traditional themes. Okay, And it
wasn't really until the twenty tens when the channel began
to be known for these made for TV movies romance comedies,
(02:33):
and then really it begun to be known for Christmas
movies in particular when it started this thing called count
Down to Christmas in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Count Down to Christmas coming this October Holy on Hallmark.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And that is literally like every night to Christmas, they
premiere I don't know if it's every night, but they
premiere all the new Christmas movies of that season.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Okay, so you've been really busy.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I've been very busy. That's one way of betting it.
And the idea is that these movies evoke the same warm,
traditional values that Hallmark greeting cards. And I don't know
if growing up you ever went to a Hallmark store,
but I always loved the Hallmark store. They have greeting
cards and ornaments, and so it's supposed to evoke those
same feelings in you. And I should say that I'm
(03:24):
not the only one watching these movies because that's how
I feel.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Talking to me. Yeah, I think I'm the minority here.
People love these.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
To give you an idea of what a big business
it is. It is literally defying the fate of most
other cable channels. Hallmark is one of the most popular
cable channels on television. New York Magazine recently did a
piece called Nobody told Hallmark Channel that cable is Dead,
and in it it mentioned that it is not uncommon
for Hallmark to have the most watched program in all
(03:56):
of cable on any given night, Wow, especially during the holidays.
Okay and per Nielsen, Hallmark Channel is the number two
most watched entertainment channel of twenty twenty three, just behind HDTV,
but ahead of other channels that people watch a lot,
like TNT and USA and Food Network. And also in
the last week of November, they premiered seven brand new
(04:18):
Hallmark Christmas movies and that pushed the channel to be
the number two most watched channel across all of cable,
not just entertainment cable, meaning that it beat Fox News.
And of those seven movies, six of them were watched
by more than one point seven million people on their
premiere night, so that's just the people who watched it
(04:39):
on the first run. Most of these movies are run
over and over again, and they've made for this season
forty original movies just to air in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
So what are they about? Like, is there really that
much to say? Why are there so many movies?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
What are they about?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Well, they're all very formulaic, they're all very very similar.
They have a lot of rules, there's a standard story format.
Now some of this is starting to change a little
bit as these shows have become more popular and as
there's more diversity and inclusion. But the traditional formula is basically,
this a relatable single, sometimes very recently single, like a
(05:22):
girl who's just literally broken up with her boyfriend or
isn't single scandalous, but her boyfriend is a big dumb
jerk and you hate him right away, and it's clear
you're supposed to hate him.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
That's always a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
It's always like a boyfriend, yes, And so this single
girl has lost faith in love. She's pursuing life in
the big city and somehow she ends up in a
small town for some reason. She's either going home for
the holidays. Okay, Sometimes she's a reporter who's working on
a story about a secret Santa that nobody knows the
identity of okay, okay. Sometimes she has an accident and
(05:58):
she has amnesia and she's like God all down and
she falls in love but she doesn't know who she is. Like,
it's always some ex case for why she's now in
this idyllic.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Town, like snow.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
There's snow everywhere. And a thing that Hallmark actually says
themselves is that a classic Hallmark Christmas movie has to
have Christmas in every frame, meaning every single shot the
movie has to have some element of Christmas, like an
ornament or a tree or a PUCKI like, there has
to be something visually that indicates its case.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So like there's no Jews.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
In well, now there are Jews. Now They've released like
a few Hallmark movies that are Honka movies. So the
match maker was right, Hanka on Rye on Hallmark. But
that is fairly recent. So again we're just talking about
the basic formula that has existed for years. We'll talk
about kind of what's happening now later. But so here's
(06:55):
this girl. She's in this small town and she meets
a handsome local man, a kind of modern prince charming,
and almost always he is also single, but sometimes he
also has an awful girlfriend who doesn't appreciate how sweet
and perfect he is. And his job is always something
like baker.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Or are you living a Hallmark movie?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm kind of living a homework movie. Is a baker
your Yeah? He really rejects that comparison, because trust I've
made it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yes, all right, So they're bakers or bakers, or there.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Are firemen, or they are the owner of the local
Christmas tree lots. Okay, they're usually small business owners or
small town kind of charmers. And while she spends time
with this charming stranger, he reminds her of the simpler
joys of small town life. So community and warmth and comfort.
(07:52):
Everything is very soothing in a Hallmark movie. Yeah, like fires,
fires are always roaring, ice skating is always happening, tons
of cocoats showering hot co coat like caroling, caroling, there's
always caroling. So often there's also I just want to say,
a child involved. Okay, Sometimes the man has a child
(08:12):
and his wife has passed. They try not to talk
about divorce a lot, but sometimes he's divorced, and less
often the woman has a child, and the child is
always like adorable and precocious, and the way the formula
works is there's also kind of a formula to the
story structure. So she gets to the town, she meets
the stranger somewhere, they start to get to know each
(08:34):
other a little bit better. There's a near kiss about
three quarters of the way through the movie.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Okay, you can time it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, And then eventually there is like a challenge they face,
or a challenge to their relationship or a misunderstanding that
briefly pulls them apart, and then they're brought back together
by the end. And there is one perfect chaste kiss
at the end of every movie, and that is the happy.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Ending, and that's end.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That's it, and that's the end.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So wait, tell me some of the ones you've watched
so far this season.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
The thing is, I can't really tell them all apart,
so like I won't be able to tell you all the.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Name, but I've watched so romantic like what it's a
general plot.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
So yeah, there's really a romance component to all of these.
But I want to say that the fantasy isn't really
just about romance. I mean, that's certainly part of it,
but it's also just kind of an idyllic world where
everybody loves their family, and everyone's really supportive of each other,
and everything is incredibly optimistic, like it is a world
(09:52):
that is very different from the world we live in,
and so there are these rules that govern this world.
And some of these rules are explicit. Hallmark executives have
talked about these rules, and some of them are less
explicit but clear. If you are a consumer of many
of these films, which I am, so here are some
(10:13):
of the rules that I have put together for you.
So it always has to be too conventionally attractive, very
classically American, traditionally white main characters. In recent years, there's
been some diversification and race and sexuality, but that's kind
of the standard setup. And then a lot of the
(10:34):
stars are not super famous, but they're recognizable from some
sitcom or teen show you watched as a kid, so
like Lacey Schever of Party of five fame and Danica
mckeller from The Wonder Years who played Winnie Cooper. Holly
Robinson Pete from twenty one Jump Street was the most
prominent black actress on the network for a long time.
(10:56):
Now there are others. Even Megan Markle was into Mark
movies when she was just an actor from suits and
not married to Prince Harry?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Do these pay a lot of money? Like this is
this like good money for actors?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yes, actually a lot of actors compare the Hallmark system
to the old school studio system because actors can sign
exclusive contracts with these networks. It just means that there's
steady work, good pay, decent hours. Like it's the kind
of thing where if you get into the Hallmark system,
which is actually not easy to do, then you can
have steady work every year. And these movies shoot fast,
(11:33):
so it's a very efficient process.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's like a journalist doing corporate work on the side
kind of. It's a fun their art.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
The Christmas movies generally get shot in fifteen days. There's
like minimal takes. It's really efficient and affordable. Yeah, most
of them are shot in Canada, so they use existing locations.
They don't have to use sound stages. So there is
like a whole industry around this that just churns out
these Christmas movies and it's a year long process because
(12:03):
they have to all be made and ready to go.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And like, if you're an actor, is this the kind
of thing where you're like, don't put that one on
my website.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I think actually a lot of these actors get really
into it. Like there's an annual convention every year called
Christmas Con, which I wanted to go to for this episode,
but they rejected me. They said they didn't have room
for podcasters this year. So I'm just like, very offended. Wow,
But a lot of the actors from these movies have
been posting from Christmas Con, Like Jesse Metcalf, who's one
(12:33):
of the male stars who used to be an actor
on Desperate Housewives. He was posting from there just a
couple of days ago. Chad Michael Murray from One Tree
Hill is one of.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
The great This is basically a world that I just
had no idea.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
No idea existed, but it is a whole universe.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
And Okay, so they're proud.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
So they're proud of it. I mean to dismiss them, no,
I mean, I'm sure there are some people who you
know wouldn't be but I think you know, if you're
a working actor and it's been a while since you've
been cast in something, and you get plugged into the system,
this is a great way to have regular work. And
I think they all.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Become a lot of chunky sweaters.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, I think they've become friends. It's like uplifting content.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Okay, great, so okay, so let's go.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Back to the role. So the rules are the vibe
has to always be uplifting and a little magical, like
there's no darkness in this world. The world makes sense here.
There's no evil, there's no war, there's no bamin. Okay, Yeah,
it's kind of nice. So very deliberately, there are no politics.
The former CEO told The New Yorker for an article
(13:33):
once that the only thing we promote is pet adoption.
We make no apologies about that. It's very clearly apolitical.
And I think that's because the accusation was always that
they were conservative because they came from a religious background.
But they're actually trying to stay out of politics. And
(13:54):
I want to mention another thing which I think makes
them very soothing, which is there's rarely economic hardship of
any kind. Like yeah, yeah, small towns and small businesses
aren't doing great in the real world, but in these
small towns, the small businesses.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Detroit businesses on the street shutter or whatever, everything is viable.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Sometimes there's like a challenge like business is down or
Dad wants to retire and sell the business, but that
challenge is always met and everything is fine by the
end of the movie. And another thing that's interesting is
that there are usually some hyjiinks and disagreements, but they
literally cannot be too angry. When the New Yorker reporter
(14:36):
who did that article I mentioned was on set, she
witnessed a scene where the guy seemed really angry and
the director was like, cut, like you got to take
it down a notch, like you're too mad.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
They're not like doxing each other on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Nobody is doxing each other on Twitter. Nobody is having
like a crying jag and like throwing things. It is
a very civilized world, okay, and the relationshi are all
basically healthy. Sometimes there are mad cap misunderstandings, but at
the root of this are good people who just love
(15:10):
each other, families who get along. All the children are
adored and cherished. Parents are either kind of saints or imperfect,
but only because they're misunderstood. And it's very important to
note that there's also very little sex in these rightbe
like just like chaste kisses near kisses, but there's no
(15:34):
heat in these movies. It's all very safe.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Do they get a rating?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
No, I mean, if they got a rating, it would
yeah miss PG. Yeah, but it's I mean, I think
it would be less than I don't know what less
than PG is, but it would be done it less
than PG. And you know, I mentioned the Christmas and
every frame, and what that means is that there have
to be heartwarming holiday themes all through the movie. Christmas
tree decorating, cookie baking, coco, Christmas lights, snowball fights like,
(16:01):
there have to be a million cliches about Christmas kind
of thrown in, and then ultimately there's always the happy ending.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So why do you like these?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I mean, let's be but this sounds horrible, This sounds
like so corny.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Why do you like this?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Okay, that's a great question. So first of all, yes,
it's incredibly corny. And obviously I know you well enough
to know that you hate corny things, so I knew
that you would find this hilarious but also disturbing. And
so I have spent a lot of time thinking about
it in the last couple of weeks as I've been
thinking about what we're going to talk about, and I
think for me, it just represents a certain kind of
(16:55):
Americana and small town life, which as an immigrant, is
what I thought America was, like that idealized version of
America is what you imagine America is when you come
here and your life is nothing like that. You come
from a world where there certainly is war and politics
and danger, and your life has just been completely thrown
(17:19):
into disarray and you're far from your family, like you
don't have this sweet world, and you imagine that that's
the world everyone else has. So I think for me
they represent this kind of comforting idea that there is
a part of the world that makes sense, right, and
you know, I.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Feel it makes a lot of sense until you realize
unfortunately it's not like it's not.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, Well, what you're saying is is that it's a fantasy,
which of course it is. So now I obviously know that.
I mean I think I always kind of inherently knew that.
But the reason I think it's kind of important around
the holiday season is I think that's a time where
people really feel not having those fantasy family life, Like
if you're someone who doesn't have a big family or
(18:09):
doesn't have a family you know, or lost your parent
or whatever. This is a time where you feel very alone,
you know, like the holidays can feel really isolating, and
so I think a lot of people just watch these
movies as a way to feel the warmth that they're
not getting in their personal lives, right, And I think
(18:29):
also the formulaic nature is very appealing to me. If
I'm honest, I don't really have to be watching. It's
a second screen activity, like I usually just put it on,
and I know the basic plot points are always essentially
the same, so I can be doing other things. I
can be like texting or doing.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I feel like maybe the few times i've I don't know,
been in other people's houses where they've been played, they're
like they're on in the background, and like you can
go in and out.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's kind of like background noise in a way. And
sometimes they're good, like you're like, oh, this is actually
kind of entertaining me, and so you dial in. But
for the most part it's just this sid of soothing
Christmas background, Like there's.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Right with like some nice music, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Like some Christmas music gets played, some adorable children come
out in like costumes. You know. It's just like a
kind of nice vibe to have in the background. It
kind of makes my brain feel smooth like butter. Okay,
that's how it feels like. I have a lot of anxiety,
as you know, and so sometimes I just want to
watch something that just like irons out all the kinks
(19:30):
in my brain. But I thought, what would be funny
would be for me to describe to you the plot
of the most popular Hamewark Christmas movie of all time,
because it's fairly deranged in ways that I find really amusing.
This is definitely a movie I've seen more than once.
(19:51):
I don't know if I've ever seen it like start
to finish. Because the other thing about Homemwark Christmas movies
is I have cable, right, which a lot of people
don't have. But if you have cable, well, one of
the benefits of it is that you just happen upon them.
You know. It's like you're just flipping through channels.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And you're like, are they on other channels too?
Speaker 1 (20:08):
No, But they did make a deal this year with Peacock,
and so now some Hallmark movies are available on Peacock,
and now lots of other people make Christmas movies. But
you know, it's kind of one of those things where
if there's nothing else on, I'll just default around Christmas
to Hallmark and just like have it on in the background.
So this movie, I can't just like wait to tell
(20:28):
you all about it. So this movie is called Christmas
under Wraps and it stars Candice Cameron Beret, who is
arguably the Queen of Christmas movies. She has been in
so many of them. She has starred in four of
the ten most viewed Christmas movies on Hallmark. Okay, this
(20:49):
movie debuted in twenty fourteen, and it to this day
holds the record for Hallmark's highest ever broadcast premiere. Like
it is credited by Hallmark executives as being the breakthrough
moment for Christmas programming on the channel, and it re
airs every year. So an important thing to kind of
understand about the ecosystem is that they make all these
(21:09):
new movies every year, but then they mix in all
these old movies that you remember, and that's also kind
of part of the appeal. It's like when people watch
Friends over and over again, like it's kind of familiar
and soothing to have one of these show up. So
here's the story of Christmas under Wraps. After a breakup.
(21:32):
Doctor Lauren Brunel played by Candice Cameron Beret is forced
to move to Alaska for a new job.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Okay, Alaska.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, so she's been passed over for a prestigious fellowship
in Boston and her boyfriend breaks up with her.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Everything I've worked for my entire life is gone.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
She temporarily accepts an offer to go practice in a
small town called Garland, Scarland, Alaska. Get it, it's got.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A Christmas theme.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
No, the towns are never real. Okay, the towns are
always like these Evergreen or whatever big names, and this
job is supposed to be temporary while she waits for
another chance at the Boston fellowship. When she gets to Alaska,
she meets Andy, who is a handsome local handyman. Welcome
to Garland, doctrepreneurs. She quickly starts to fall in love
(22:21):
with Garland, but as Larren becomes more familiar with the town,
she starts to notice some odd things. Most people in
this town actually work for. Andy. The adorable handyman she
met when she arrived, his father, Frank, who owns a
warehouse business called Holiday Shipping because okay, their last name
(22:43):
is Holiday, and Frank likes to eat cookies for breakfast.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And she can't quite figure out what Frank's business exactly
is beyond shipping, but she starts to get to know
Andy better and it turns out that used to be
an architect in Seattle, but he moved home because his
dad really needs help with the family business.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Okay, okay, what is the family business?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Donlanta?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Okay, okay, Christmas wait, just wait.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
He confides in Lauren that he's ambivalent about his future,
and here is the almost kissed moment. And then later
there's an emergency and Lauren is summoned to the holiday home,
but when she gets there, she realizes it's not a
medical emergency that she's been summoned for. But there's a reindeer,
(23:38):
and the reindeer indeed injured Rudy presumably short for Rudolph,
who is injured. His ankle is injured, and it's a
crisis because they need him to be well for the
Christmas eve Dot festival. Okay, okay, So still she's like
things here are strange, but.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
She's like, I don't get it, I don't care.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
What is happening here? That feels what did it all mean?
And you know, but she's smart, so she's starting to
become suspicious something strange as a foot. Well she is
a doctor, right.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So okay, and so how to fix Rudy's foot?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
She patches up Rudy's ankle. She does, yes, and everyone
is extremely grateful, and then some other things happen. I
won't get into, but it's important to note that somewhere
in all of this, Andy gets Lauren a Christmas tree
and they decorate it together.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
This is the best Christmas I've ever had. And then
they kiss.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Nope, the kiss doesn't come until the end. It's just
near kisses until the end. I'm sure they bake some
cookies or go ice skating. I don't remember all the
fun Christmas ectoky, but that's like how there are Romance unfolds.
And then right after all of that comes the challenge.
Lauren finds out that a spot has opened up in
Boston after all, So she tells Andy, ok that she's leaving,
(25:00):
and you know, she can't give up what she's wanted
her whole life, and they're both really sad. And the
question here is, Jessica, is this going to be the
first time that a Christmas movie doesn't have a happy ending.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Oh okay, but maybe the happy ending is like getting
her executive shop.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Okay, you are clearly wrong about that, Like what are
you even thinking of? The happy ending is never that
the career girl goes back to her career, right, she
always discovers that small town life is better than her
like New York career.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So wow, okay, so what happens?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So that's so silly, but obviously I'm wrong. There will
be a happy ending. Before Lauren can leave, Andy gets
a call that his father has collapsed, and so they
rush to be by his side, and Andy is so
worried about his father's health that he realizes that he
has to help his dad with the business. Again. No
one is being explicit about what the business is, right,
(25:55):
but in seeing him and his dad come together, Lauren
has a real zay of her own. She's decided she's
going to stay in Garland. She turns down the fellowship,
and she goes to find Andy at the Christmas festival
to tell him, and then they kiss and it is
a happy ending after all. But one last thing. It
(26:16):
turns out that Frank is in fact Santa Claus.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Okay, so does that mean she's I guess she's not
gonna be Missus Claus.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, she's gonna be a homemaker.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
One day she's gonna be Missus Claus. She's gonna be
a doctor. And the way we find out that Frank
is in fact Santa Claus is he comes out in
a full Santa outfit in a sleigh being led by
Rudy the reindeer, and then it like goes up into
the air your way, and that's how the movie ends.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Are these like okay, like this is like kitch, Like
this is like ella, wel this is so ridiculous, or
this is like like I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Where you want to watch?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Maybe it's just like you're trying to get away from
your family. Well, I mean I think that's some of it,
and this is something to do.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Some of it is like you're just trying to look
for entertainment anywhere you can find it. I think that
for a lot of people who watch it, Like for me,
it is kitsch, Like I find it hilarious, Like it's
unintentionally a comedy for me, right, Like I'm like he's
stay on a clause like that's the story.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, Okay, that's like, it's funny when you tell it.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Right, But I don't know that that's how it's intended,
but certainly how I receive it. So I think, like
I would love to hear from people who have different
reasons why they love these movies. For me, it's always hilarious,
and the more deranged the storyline, the more I love
it because I'm just like, what's.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Happening, Yeah, that's fun. I could see that.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
You can kind of see that, right, And I think
there are people who putat like Hallmark Christmas games like
drinking games, where like when something happens, you know, there's
a lot of ways to make it fun. But I
think what's interesting is it. Candice Cameron Beret herself is
like a really interesting part of the Hallmark universe because
she really is the Queen of Christmas or the Queen
(28:04):
of Hallmark Christmas. But you know, I don't know how
much you know about her, but she's quite conservative. She's
an openly conservative celebrity, obviously of which there are not
a ton and she's been creating content for the channel
since two thousand and eight, and her first Hallmark movie
was called Moonlight and Mistletoe and just FYI, Tom Arnold,
(28:25):
Wasn't it just okay? But in twenty twenty two, she
announced that she was ending her contract with Hallmark and
she was going to go to this other channel called
the Great American Family Channel, which she claimed was more
in line with her traditional and religious values. And this
created a controversy because it seemed very much like a
(28:47):
veiled way of saying. She rejected that there were now
LGBTQ themes and more diversity in the stories, and this
is what she said at the time, my heart wants
to tell stories that have more meeting and purpose and
depth behind them. I know that the people behind Great
American Family were Christians that loved the Lord and wanted
(29:08):
to promote faith programming and good family entertainment.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Where they're like some gay uncles in Missletoe and Mischief.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Holiday Missletoe and whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
So they had started to kind of introduce characters that
were obliquely gay, like they would have two men who
were friends. They would never explicitly talk about their being gay,
but you could kind of get a sense. But at
this point they make movies where there are two leads
who are gay and who end up together. There has
been a push towards more diversity and inclusion on the channel,
(29:44):
and there was kind of this scandal because at some
point there was an ad on the channel from a
wedding registry site where two lesbians kissed, and a conservative
group started to organize a boycott, and initially they pulled
the commercial, but then there was a boycott of the
channel from the other side, and competitors like Netflix and
(30:06):
other streamers who now make these movies touted that they
have more LGBTQU diversity. So Hallmark reversed its decision and
said it would reinstate the advertisements and work with GLAD
and other LGBTQU groups to have more inclusive programming. All
of that happened in twenty nineteen, so that was before
she kind of made the statement that made it clear
(30:28):
that she wanted more Love of the Lord in her programming.
And she said this thing which was very coded but clear,
which is she was like, Hallmark is now a completely
different network than when I started, thanks to a change
in leadership by Candace.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
By Candace yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't miss her, but this
was like a big thing in the Hallmark universe.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
So I think I I mean, I have no connection
to Hallmark movies whatsoever except for one thing, which is
that my friends that I grew up with Neil bloodsoe
we went to high school together.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
He's like a pretty.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Well known Hallmark actor or like this type of still
family versus Hallmark whatever, Like he was on very you know,
he was a successful actor in other realms, and he
started doing Hallmark movies. He starred at one point in
something with Winnie Cooper whose name I forget, but who
you mentioned earlier, Dank and mckeller, Oh yeah, Dank and mckeller.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And then when this all.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Was happening, he took a stand and was like, I'm out.
If you can't support LGBTQ issues, that's not a network
that I want.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
To be involved in.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
And so there were all these headlines about Neil my
high school dance tolo date.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Being the right kind of ally.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Okay, So I just googled this and you're right, So
this is actually exactly what we're talking about. Neil, I
guess had also gone over to Great American Family. So
basically Great American Family was started by this guy who
used to run Hallmark, this guy Bill Abbott, who sort
of created this concept, and after all of this stuff
(32:09):
happens with the lesbian ad, he abruptly leaves the channel
in February of twenty twenty, and he starts trying to
recruit the famous actors of Hallmark to come over to
Great American Family, which he sort of strategically says is
going to be more traditional, but never explicitly says that
(32:31):
it's not going to have inclusion or LGBTQ, etc. So
when Candice makes these remarks two years later, it becomes
a controversy, and Neil was, I guess signed on to
make some films with the Great American Family Channel, and
he said he would no longer do that, So hopefully
he's still making Hallmark movies and wants to come on
(32:52):
and tell us all about that, because I want to
hear everything about that experience.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, but I'm curious. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah. See, now, aren't you more curious about what it's
like to be part of this world?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Kind of?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Not? Really? Well, Neil, I really appreciate you, even if
your friend Jessica from high school can't understand why.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
No, I appreciate what he did. I just don't know
that I need to watch the movie anyhow.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Okay, so is there a movie that you're currently watching
right now?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh, I mean, I don't like always even watch a
movie to the end. Sometimes I'll just watch take an
hour of it and finish. Like I'm not like Dvring.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
The movie I gotcha.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
I'm not like, in the middle of a movie, I'm
trying to think if I watched anything last night. I mean,
I'll just sort of flip through channels and sometimes there'll
be one that I know. There's another famous canvas Cameron
beret one where she plays twins, like she plays both parts.
They're sisters that are estranged and they swap lives, and
for some reason, even though that movie is very bad,
(33:56):
I love it. So whenever that's on, I watch it.
There's a lot of theme around Royalty, so it'll be
like small town girl gets asked to be a nanny
in fake European country like Genovia, you know, and she'll
go there to be the nanny, and she'll fall in
love with like her charges brother who happens to be
(34:17):
the prince, you know. Okay, there's a lot of these
kind of Yeah, I mean, essentially that's what it is.
It's a fairy tale about what life could be like
in a fantasy. I remember once I actually brought this
up with my therapist, like it was a holiday season
where I was feeling a little depressed and I was like,
I just like, why don't I have a family like this?
(34:39):
And she was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, that's deranged, Like these are fantasies.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Nobody has families like this, Like this is not the
real world. And yeah, I mean honestly, what I thought
in that moment is I can't believe I people someone.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, like, get out of New York City, you careerist.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, do you think that? I take it.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
You can take your baker boyfriend with you, because clearly
he belongs in a small town.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Open up your little bagel shop.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And I just want you to know that I do
want to move to a small town and open up
a bagel shop. And Mike is like, no, I want
to live in New York, Like why would I want
to go to some small town. So I don't know,
he's just like refusing to participate in my fantasy. But okay,
I guess that's a happy ending of its own, because
I'm pretty sure if I ended up in some small town.
(35:33):
I'd be tearing my hair out in like a week.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
So or maybe you would love it, maybe I would
love it.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I think we can leave this episode here. Do you
feel like you know everything you need to know about
Hallmark movies? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I think I know enough, and I will file this
away in my head and I'm still never going to
watch them.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
All Right, Well, I feel like my job here is done.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Then great work, Happy holidays, Susie.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Just before we wrap this episode up, I wanted to
take a moment to acknowledge some of the ideas that
our listeners have been sending in. So every week we've
been asking you to tell us what you think we
should explore, and as we wrap up season one, we're
getting ready to tackle all of these new subjects for
season two.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And we love some of these ideas that have been
sent in.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, I mean, we've had such great response, and I
just want you guys to know we read every email
and every DM and I love all of them. And
I always say that I kind of want to write
a thank you note, like a handwritten thank you note
to all of you. So if you DM me your address,
I probably will do that. But yeah, let's go so
over some of these ideas because you know, we have
great episodes coming up, but hopefully there'll be an opportunity
(36:46):
to incorporate some of these. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
One that I am really excited about came from Beth Lipton,
who actually sent it a couple of great ones about
Lilith Fair and the riot girl.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Era of the nineties. I was always so upset I
didn't go to Lilith Fair.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I know too. I mean I have seen Indigo Girls
in concert like five times, so I feel like it's
kind of the closest you're going to get to Lill Affair.
But I am really sad I missed it.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
And there has been a funny TikTok going around recently
of a young person being like, what there was a
festival that was all women, So I think good fodder
for us.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, and also maybe it will inspire someone to make
another Lill Affair, like I would totally go to that.
Now that's sent in another good idea about doing something
around Sandy's transition in Greece, like how she had to
become a bad girl together die And I love that.
There's a great thing in here about something I don't
know about, but I feel like, I should do a
lot of research on which is Mariah Carey's Glitter Meltdown.
(37:46):
I'm like, I want to know everything about that.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
I don't know what that is from Maddy Lambert, Yes,
that's Maddie. We'll look cut up.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, I think that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
But all of these are so great and we hope
people and listeners will keep keep sending them because we
really do look into them and maybe we'll pursue them.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So thank you, yeah, thank you so much. We really
love all of you. This is in Retrospect. Thanks for listening.
Is there a cultural moment you can't stop thinking about
and want us to explore in a future episode. Email
us at Inretropod at gmail dot com, or find us
on Instagram at in retropod.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
If you love this podcast, please rate and review us
on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. If you
hate it, you can post nasty comments on our Instagram,
which we may or may not delete.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
You can also find us on Instagram at Jessica Bennett
and at suzb NYC. Also check out Jessica's books Feminist
Fight Club and This Is eighteen.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
In Retrospect is a production of iHeart Podcasts and the Media.
Lauren Hanson is our supervising producer. Derek Clements is our
engineer and sound designer. Sharon Attiya is our researcher and
associate producer.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Our executive producer from the media is Cindy Levy. Our
executive producers from iHeart are Anna Stump and Katrina Norvelle.
Our artwork is from Pentagram, additional editing help from Mary
Doo and Mike Coscarelli. Sound correction and mastering by Amanda
Rose Smith. We are your hosts Susie Banacarum.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
And Jessica Bennett. We're also executive producers. For even more,
check out in retropod dot com. See you next week.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.