December 7, 2022 • 43 mins
Today's episode is inspired by a listener who asks: "when choices aren't always black and white, how do you navigate the shades of gray?"
Using the 12 steps outlined in Joseph Campbell's book The Hero's Journey, Brenda and Julie walk you through the stages of unfolding we all go through as we grow and co-create with the Divine. Choices aren't always yes or no—in fact, Earth School often requires you to soften the edges of shoulda, coulda, woulda by embracing the discomfort that comes with this growth and aligning your choices in accordance with your highest good. From the perspective of Divine order, everything is part of the plan, even when you think you've made a mistake.
Earth School is hard, but there are no wrong answers—and sometimes what you perceive to be a blunder, is an Other Side blessing...
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of My Heart Radio. Hi y'all, I'm Julie. Hi there,
I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the other Side.
Now you all need to know that we are obsessed
with everything on the other side. Yes we are, because
(00:21):
once you learn to navigate the energetic, or to some
the invisible world, life is going to be more fun
and much more serene. Heck, yes it can, because, let's
be honest, brand earth school is hard. In fact, you
taught me that let's crush earth School together. Well, hello,
(00:44):
my witchy woo, how in the hell are you? Hi?
It's always nice when someone testes ingredients. Absolutely, it's always surprised.
So I'm doing great, my help, and how are you?
(01:06):
I'm doing fantastic And it's funny. Um. The cussing part
brought up part of what I was kind of dreaming
about the other night. Um, it's so crazy, um, and
I can't wait to hear what listeners have to say
about this. So I dreamed that I was actually running
for governor of the state in New Mexico. That is awesome.
(01:28):
And of course I cussed because I can't not and
whoever I was running against, I'm sure it was some
douche bag guy and um he uh, I think it
was a heat And he said something about, well, my
you have a foul mouth kind of thing, and I
remember my response is, and you don't because all you
do was lie, because people who cuss tell the truth
(01:50):
like that was in That was in my dream. So
every lookout for governor reader someday. Don't tell me. Don't
tell Michelle Louhan Grisham that because she's our our governor
right now and she's awesome. But anyway, crazy, that's cussing.
So anyway, I'm great, I cuss. I'm happy about it.
(02:13):
The end, full stop. He would say, well, welcome to
this episode, Governor. Will you be lieutenant governor wichy pooh? Absolutely,
if called, I will serve. We'd have a good time
(02:36):
to pay shitty because I looked it up the next morning,
but we'd have fun. We would would be an honorable
job for both of us if we are not electable.
You know, I don't think I am. Either doesn't mean
one day I won't try, but I don't know. Maybe
I am. I think I'm the John Fetterman of seriously, like,
I'm wearing a hoodie right now, just for the record,
(02:57):
And I actually own a John Fetterman hoodie because I
donated to as a campaign and you know, had by
sub merch while I was shopping, and I think I'm
the job and shopping. You know, there's there's nothing like
donating and shopping exactly right. Um. Yeah, but I would think,
because I told Susanne about it, and she's like, yeah, baby,
you'd be like the John Fetterman of a governor's racer.
(03:21):
I'm like, right, your wife is always right. She's always right,
and so we'll just put that into her little vortex.
And you know, I think I think I'd be a
great governor. Just getting there would be the hard part,
because that is a hard anyway. That aside, that's not
why we're here to talk about my dreams. It's not
(03:44):
not why we're here. But it's not not I like that.
It's not not why we're here. But today we have
been inspired by one of our listeners. Oh, by the way,
before you go into that this whole episode, I think
you need to address me as governor. Yeah, governor with
the accident governor, got us governor, got us governor? Governor. Okay, sorry,
(04:12):
go ahead. Yes, one of our magnificent listeners that made
us think so hard that we actually had to piece
together a whole new episode for her, which is awesome.
We really do love it when we hear from you.
It's so much fun for us, right, because then you know,
we can know what's going on for you, what lands
for you, and how can we serve you better? Right,
(04:34):
you know, give context to things, whatever it may be.
So Chris a very thoughtful listener. She says, Hi, friends,
I just finished the quote you are the captain of
your energetic ship, end quote episode, and I loved it.
I have a follow up question at the end when
(04:54):
Brenda says she wanted the psych degree but was counseled
by her guides that it wasn't the right path for
her and her soul's work. Wouldn't that make it the
quote wrong choice for her? I know there's no definitive
right and wrong like the episode talked about, but I'm
(05:14):
trying to wrap my head around the concept of things
not being so black and white. Thanks. It's such a
thoughtful question, right. I love that question because the world really,
in all intents and purposes, is not black and white.
It's not. We live. We swim in gray every day.
(05:37):
I looked at right, we literally swim in gray. And
you know it is our I think, our morality, which
leads to more black and white for us. But when
it just comes to decisions like what should my college
degree be? I think is very valid question and observation
that she had, Yeah, and just again, I think it
(06:00):
was so thoughtful and I appreciate that so much. And
then you know she took the time to send it
to us, which is great, thanks gosa Um. And look,
this is what life would be easier if it was
black and white boring as exactly right, there's not this
(06:21):
you know certainty. Life is messy, and we have to
know that we're co creating with the divine in every step,
and we come to Earth to contribute back to the
divine like this, you know, cosmic al algorithm, where it's
just we're constantly feeding and supporting each other. New things
(06:41):
are being discovered, new options are opening up. When I
was an undergrad, positive psychology was not even a thing, right,
so as when I fished my m b A, I thought,
oh well this would be fun. More studies and be
fun um and So what's important to remember in this
scenario is I didn't usk my guides is yes or no?
(07:03):
I asked, is this an accordance with my highest good?
That's what I asked, right, So it doesn't mean that
even though I said, well, if you ask question that way,
not necessarily right. It's it's not really in scope. But
you know, it would have hurt you, would have hurt you.
It would have been interesting at best, but not applied.
(07:26):
A bit of a distraction from my soul's path, which
is sometimes a fine choice, but it's still my choice.
It's not like they would fire me if I decided
to do that. They might get a little frustrated with me.
Have they ever threatened to strike or walk off? They
may have, but I'm not aware of it. They probably
should have a number of times. I'm pretty sure mine have,
(07:50):
and I think at least two have escaped because I
had that. They just like hit it. They're like, this
bitch crazy, she thinks she's going to be the custom governor.
And they just like they're out. It's awesome. So and
you know, again it's the phrasing and me knowing that
(08:10):
any choice I make is comically my own right so
I'm not going to lose my guides over this. They
will have to adjust their plan and what we've agreed to,
possibly or put it on hold until I get done
with that and decide I'm going back to my other work. Anyhow,
I just probably would have HOWE had gone. Well, it
leads us right, like the whole idea, like when we
(08:30):
um and I'm so happy um that Clarissa, right? Is
it Clarissa chriss? I thought Clarissa Carissa Either way, it's
a beautiful name. I never get him right, so don't
be off. But what I absolutely love about it and
where we ended up after we read that and talked
about it was, in many cases, there are no wrong answers.
(08:52):
There are no mistakes, right, It's really there's no mistakes,
And so we're actually gonna title this there are no mistakes.
And in fact, Brenda got confused a few minutes ago
because I titled it the Hero's Journey, because really the
Hero's dirty is the umbrella over about not they're not
being mistakes. And we've talked briefly about the Hero's Journey before.
(09:14):
I really thought it might be kind of fun to
do a deep dive into it because as I was
doing a deep red rediving because I've I've swam in
the in the Joseph Campbell pool before um when it
comes to well, well, exactly right, and a number of
levels on a number of levels, which I think we'll
talk about, but just to give everybody a sense because
(09:36):
it is, you know, if you are curious, because curiosity
is such a crucial part of being human. If you're
if you're curious, um, it is worth either reading his
book called The Hero with a Thousand Faces or reading
synopsis of it or aspects of it just to understand
and to apply it to your own life, which as
(09:57):
I was going through this, I was like, damn, damn, check,
damn check. Like each stage of it, I was like going, Okay,
I think, um, I've lived that and it's gonna be
really fun, so I can't wait to go through that part. Um.
But just really quickly, to give everybody a little bit
of background on Joseph Campbell is he was a professor
(10:19):
of literature at Sarah Lawrence College and an expert of mythology.
And apparently he spent like five years in a shitty shack.
I call it a shitty shack it doesn't say shitty
on it, but I call it a shitty shack because
you are going to be the swearing governor, because I'll
be the cussing governor. Um Or maybe I should start
as the mayor. Either way, I'll be cussing whatever it
(10:41):
may be. Even if I cleaned the streets, which I
do think the streets now there's a lot of glass,
I'm the cussing the street cleaner. So there you have it, um.
But as he's in a shitty shack, he buried himself,
covered himself in books and read for nine hours a day.
And he did this literally, I want to go back
to five years. So you're committed human if this is
(11:04):
what you decide to do. Um. So what effectively did
was he synthesized these huge volumes of historic, historic heroic
stories and he distilled them all into the hero's journey.
So this makes that we take for granted today because
it keeps unfolding, you know, in different compelling versions. But
(11:28):
it is this you know, higher level of outline. And
why back in the day did they look like this?
Like why did all men I'm showing Brenda, they're like
the little mustache, the round glasses kind of graying thing
with the like suit. It's they all look the same.
They're all twinning back in the day of Joseph Trumble
(11:49):
and this is now where they had lots of options
through social media to be inspired by. Okay, just that
why there's no yeah, but still yeah. I mean they
all looked the same, and then they weren't planning on twining,
but they all did. It's like that there's a memo
that went out all that the same. Um, we should
probably take a quick break, and then we're gonna come
(12:10):
back and we're gonna start talking about the twelve steps
of the hero's journey, different than other twelve step programs.
Correct correct, either is fine, but this is the twelve step.
We'll be right back and welcome back, and go ahead
(12:38):
and start wherever you like, hopefully at the step number one. Well,
I will start in order, which is odd. I usually
like to start at the end and work backwards. But
um so I'm just gonna kind of give you guys
a few quotes that come from this. Um, the generality
of the hero's journey. So, the usual hero, which is us,
(12:58):
by the way, we're all heroes, right, the usual hero
adventure begins with someone from whom something has been taken
or who feels there is something lacking in the normal
experience available or permitted to the members of society. The
person then takes off on a series of adventures beyond
(13:18):
the ordinary, either to recover what has been lost or
to discover some life giving a lixir, now a lixor
don't be so literal, lixer can it just can be
a spiritual thing. Usually is um, it's it's it's usually
a cycle a coming and returning. So just to give
kind of a perspective of kind of the whole journey. UM,
(13:42):
So I'm gonna go through each one, do you guys mind.
We'll try to hit the first six and then we'll
come back and hit the second six and talk about him.
And I'll try to go through is Um as quickly
as I can. But it starts with the ordinary world, right,
It's like the calm before the storm. And so I'm
gonna bring up by the way, I'm okay, I lied.
I'm not making any of this short. Um. I want
(14:04):
for those for those who have seen Iron Man one,
and I mean this was coming, I know, I know,
but it is my favorite origin story because um iron Man,
Um it was his name Peter Stark. I don't know
that was spider Man, whatever the hell his name was
in an iron it Mr Iron Robert Tony Stark, I
(14:26):
got the Stark right. Yes, okay, way to go. What
the hell? Who are you? Who are you channeling that
to you? It must have been Tony Stark, must have
been Tony Stark. So I just want everybody to keep
in mind if you've seen it, I also encourage you
to watch it for and you can say it's for research.
If you don't want to say, admit you watched it
(14:46):
on my podcasting research. This is my podcasting research. I
need to know what the hell these people are talking about.
But the calm before the storm for Tony Stark is
that he was this really wealthy guy could have him
do whatever he wanted. And the reason why we all
iron Man is because he had to go through ship
and he had to learn about himself. He had to
have trials and tribulations, he had to save himself all
(15:08):
of these things. Because do we ever really like just
a rich guy that can have whatever he wants that
inherit is from car We typically don't know. But for real,
we don't. Because we don't, it's not sympathetic character. So
just know the ordinary world is really important. It can
you know, the heroes living in a standard, mundane life,
and for Tony Stark, that's what it was. He could
do whatever he wanted, that was his standard life, going
(15:31):
about their business. So that's that's how it begins. Ordinary world,
our heroes in their comfort zone. Um. And then there's
a call to adventure, and the call to adventure is
a disruption. It's a significant event that threatens um the
way that things were. So this is a challenge that
our hero knows deep down will lead to transformation and change.
(15:53):
So it's like the calling, right, it's like the phone rings.
Pick it up because your transformation is happening. It's getting
ready to start. Be prepared kind of thing. It's kind
of like when Jacob told me put both hands on
the wheel. There's going to be an accident. It's like
things are going to get like it's going to get
pretty rough here to put your hand on the wheel.
So when it comes to the ordinary world, your days
(16:16):
are numbered because they're not going to be ordinary really
any longer. UM. So in this in this second stage,
The psychological symbol for it that they talk about is
that many of us embark on inner journeys following a
hardship in life. And I think this is really important.
The death of a loved one. And this is when
I started going through it, going check for my journey, right,
(16:39):
the death of a loved one, the loss of a job,
physical or mental illness. Um. This stage occurs when it
becomes apparent that to move through suffering one has to
look within, to adventure, into the soul. So I don't
know anybody that hasn't had that calling quite yet, because
it's definitely there. So the third step is fantastic, which
(17:02):
is refusal of the call. It's like, Nope, I'm not
picking up suckers. Um. And I think I I think
I think Joseph Campbell said that. Actually, I think he
said bucks he spent five years in a shitty shack
reading a whole bunch of books. You know he's saying that. Um, So, no,
(17:23):
no compelling story or life would be complete without friction, right,
So we have to have the friction point. So the
hero often resists this call to adventure because it's fear
and self doubt. That's why we'll pick up the phone.
I remember, we're in our comfort zone. Why would we
want something else? Well, because it's because when we're in
our comfort zone, something outside of that with we have
(17:44):
self doubt and fear to get outside of that. It's scary.
I had that check box. I mean because the only
because this is the other thing that he talks about,
and so I love his work and it's so we're
reading folks because he talks about the only way to
grow and live a deeply fulfilling life is to face
(18:06):
the discomfort of suffering m hm, which is so interesting.
I think, um, so many, so many people first of
all resist that, but specifically parents try really hard so
that their children don't suffer. And it's biologically it makes
so much sense, right because your children are an extension
(18:28):
of you. You want to protect. Yeah, that's the only
way they grow. It is, and there's a difference between
you know, a face plant versus that they blow themselves up, right,
So like it's degrees. But well, it's it's funny you
say that, because, Um, I have some people in this
world that I love deeply that are have some really
hard times as an adult because they actually grew up
(18:51):
in this ideal ideolytic with where's the words say it
um ideal childhood Like they were protected and they were
loved so deeply by their parents and all these things,
and then like then they have to start adulting and
ship gets real and they don't know how to deal it.
They can't identify and they didn't know how to deal
So to your point, I have several of those, and
(19:12):
I love them. It's it's the car. It's just part
of life they get because no one gets spared of
being outside your comfort zone. Everyone has to grow and
develop and you know, hit those moral dilemmas and all that,
Like it's all part of the development. It's part of
the plan. It's not the plan gone wrong, right, right,
So we're only on step three, right, We are getting
(19:35):
to step four. But I just want to remind everybody,
for those that have read my book, this will be
actually very familiar as we go through some of these steps.
Because I gotta be honest with you, guys, I haven't
looked at this and since I actually released it, like,
I haven't gone through all of these steps and spent
as much time reading about it preparing for this episode
that I have and I'm like, holy sh it, because
obviously personally, I mean, for me, it was my mom.
(19:57):
I mean, it was the death of my mother that
fun me into a place that was I had no
choice but to be in discomfort because I was in
such terrible grief. Is she there no shit? Um, there's
no secrets from Margaret. Um. So here's my favorite. Step
four is meeting a mentor and there's a picture of
(20:19):
Luke Skywalker and Yoda behind him. Because Star Wars the
what's actually episode it's four, but it's the first one
we ever saw. Is like the epitome of the hero's journey. So, um,
my Yoda was you. You're way better looking than Yoda.
I'm just gonna tell you out loud, practically, twins. You
(20:42):
have such a better head of hair. Um, you're taller. Um,
your hands don't look like claws and hoofs or whatever
it is. Um. Your and your ears are not nearly
as large as as yodas. But um so as the
as our hero faces rises of confidence, a wise mentor
(21:02):
figure appears right so that this they offer inspiration, guidance
understanding Um encourages the hero to have the self belief
to start this new adventure. I don't know. Did you
know at the time that you were signing up for that?
You probably did. No. I mean, remember I was there
(21:23):
because I was a visiting ribbon and gym. That's right, Well,
good visit, and you were out of town, so it
was quite quite possible our past would never have crossed,
that's right. But you came home, and I think you
didn't want to go home because you're grieving, and so
(21:44):
you came came to their house instead. So funny that
you say that, because in this mentor when it talks,
because they talk about like it defines the step, and
then it goes into the psychological symbol. And in the
psychological symbol it says, here when the journey of exploration
has to begin, people are situations into your life at
just the right time. Yeah, guiding you in the right direction.
(22:10):
Isn't that crazy? It's like it's like he sees her
soul um and and it says in most cases these
are chance encounters um that contained a sense of knowing
before the hero leaves on his or her adventure. So
Mentor is number four UM. And then there's they call
crossing the threshold. Right, So this is a pivotal moment
(22:33):
in the journey when the initiation begins, right, So this
occurs when our hero fully commits to their quest, whether
it's physical, emotional, or spiritual. I wanted to bring that
part up because we see lots of movies right TV
shows that has this spiritual don't forget that's the that
(22:53):
is the realm that we all live in who listen
to the show, And to know that a spirit chull
journey UM is probably more in the cards than maybe
many of these other ones UM, because that's just what
we've all kind of signed up for. I think is
why I say that, not that the other ones aren't possible. UM.
And they say that this is the point of no
(23:14):
return totally, like you literally didn't want to go home? No,
I know, I didn't correct um. So because what happens
here is that, like the heroes now embarking on this journey, UM,
the hero enters a new zone, right, and so my
(23:36):
zone got to be this place of UM really trying
to understand. Like I remember, the first book that you
ever sent me was from Concettabor totally, which was to
Dead People See You in the Shower, And that has
been the first book I've given many other people. So
it was a point of learning and understanding because it
was not a world that I had ever been a
(23:57):
part of. It's a very playful totally. I mean I
had Mona that kept saying stuff when she was alive,
and I was like trying to understand. I believed her.
I just never had it in my own well because
you had Mona, so you didn't need to. I had
Mona and I had my mom at the time, because
I lost the both within months. Right way to go, Mona. UM.
(24:23):
So in this just to make sure, Yeah, your mom
is saying, but you needed that space in your life,
otherwise you never would have expanded into it. Yeah she's right, Yeah,
she's right. Mom always mothering me. UM. And this is
(24:43):
what's really important to what you just said. It's like
she's reading my paper. I think I think she is, UM.
But it says, whatever your life was before the call
to action, this is across roads, which is accepted knowing
your life may never be the same. M. Because it
needed to change for me personally. I needed it to Jay,
(25:06):
I needed to grow and needed to evolved. I needed
to expand, UM. And that's exactly what happened. Can we
take a break before your next Yes we can. Okay,
we'll be right back and welcome back. What's our next step,
(25:26):
my own? Our next step is step six, And this
one is so incredible. This is the one I sat
when I was reading this and just having the greatest
like memories pop back up. So this one is um
test allies and enemies, and so now that our hero
(25:48):
has ventured outside of their comfort zone, the true test begins.
This is a stage of acclamizing. I don't know, it's
a big word. Yeah, I said it close. I guess,
um to unknown lands. That's important part. So they're acclimating
to unknown lands. Unknown forces work against them as they
(26:11):
form bombs with allies who joined them along the way,
or force formidable enemies or encounters that have to be conquered.
So throughout this testing time, the hero will be shaped
and molded through adverse or at advert which is fucking
thank you. What the hell is wrong with me? It's
just so I'm so excited um finding deeper meaning in
(26:32):
their life ad mission. Okay, here's why I love this
so much, y'all. I cannot tell you how many times
I will call Brenda and be like this just happened
in the first words out of her mouth, where you're
being test You're being tested my elf, because it happened.
It was real, like I was being tested, and like
it's like they were trying to scare me away. It's like,
(26:52):
what bullshit can we dump on you to scare the
living crap out of you? So you give up whether
whether it was the pendulum going on its own, you know,
whether it was opening a portal in my backyard, and
there's that that fines into the window. But the other
(27:13):
thing is it's also it's not just a test of
um challenge. It's a test of qualifications because it would
be irresponsible for them to let you through without you
gaining some awareness and skill to navigate that. So the
challenge is useful. It's not torture, totally agree. But I
(27:35):
was challenged with some of those forces. Yeah, there's like
gnarly ass forces. Whether it was when Alex ban Camp
called me from Seattle and said I forgot my black
turmaline and the hatman came last night and I talked
to him, and I knew because he goes, and right
(27:56):
before he said it, he goes. But I think this
message was for you. I'm like, well, what did you say?
And Alex said, he said, tell her my name is Bob. Ah,
fuck it, who cares this? That's his name? Um, I
just realized, Oh I said his name. Um, I don't care.
(28:18):
He doesn't. He's not gonna listen anyway. He can assume
me all he wants. Um. So he was a child abuser,
so that you have it. But Bob was the name
of my ex stepdad who beat the living hell out
of me. And if there's any way to try to
get to somebody's weakness and hit him in the knees
is going to be for a like a villain like
the hatman, to say, tell her my name is Bob. Yeah,
(28:39):
the initial he went right to the initial wound. He
went right to the wound. He went right there, and
then and and and then Alex was like, who's Bob?
In the course, I tell him who Bob is? And
um uh And I said, the next time he shows up,
you tell him to go fund himself. And that was
my response. But that's the thing though. It was all
a test and I passed that because it was like, oh, no,
(29:02):
guess what, boogeyman, you ain't scaring me, uh, because that
ship is Halan and it's getting good and like you
can't penetrate that wound. Yeah, you cannot take you can't
take it away from me. Yeah yeah, Okay, So that's
the reason I was so excited about that sexually, like
oop check, it's like you're being tested, my help, And
(29:22):
then I went through all those tests. Those are just
a few. There were so many of them. Um, because
you kept expanding, right, you could have stopped at any stage,
but you just kept expanding that and I think you
had actually said, this is a stage where a lot
of people bail. Yeah, because it's it's scary, and it
can be hard, and it's I've been. I was like, oh,
(29:44):
ship have been? Have I left my have I reached
my limits? Am I supposed stop here? Like I've had
those moments? Yeah yeah, yeah, But people do bail, and
I totally understand why they would bail. Yeah yeah, Um,
I encourage people to not, but you also said that
if you do, it will come back around for you.
We'll come back around, and sometimes it comes back in
(30:05):
the same lifetime, sometimes it's in the next Yeah. So
the seventh is approach to the inmost cave. So this
is having having already crossed the threat across the Jesus
crossed the thing. Hold on, We're gonna try this again.
That was that, that is all made, having already crossed
the threshold and to the unknown and the uncertain, having
(30:29):
faced obstacles and enemies, and having begun to utilize their
qualities along the way. The next stage is another threshold.
This is the beating heart of the hero's challenge, where
again self doubt and fear can arise as another threshold
has to be crossed. This is often a period of respite,
giving the hero time to pause and reflect. Will the
(30:51):
hero make the leap? And I think that's actually what
you're talking about. Where people bail. They bail in that
inmost cave, it's kind of like, Okay, this is my life,
now do I want this to be in my life?
Can I jump into the where who I once was?
And people can? They can fake it, but they can live.
Often what they do is they go, well, I'm just
(31:11):
not going to tell anybody about this, and then they
can keep with the regular life. And then they're like yeah,
and then it eventually blows up right exactly right, which
is fine, it's all fine, right, Okay, So this one
is also really fascinating. Number eight is they call it ordeal.
This is a life or death moment. This can be
(31:35):
a meeting with an ultimate enemy or facing the hero's
deepest fears. There is an awareness that if the hero fails,
their new world or their life could be destroyed. Now,
let's all keep in mind, up, I could have been
killed in a car accident on the four or five
in Los Angeles, California, if I had not listened to
my guide without a doubt, for real. I could have
(31:58):
ignored him. I could have thought I'm hearing things. I
could have done whatever it may be. All the people
I tried to call wouldn't pick up the phone. I mean,
it's very evident that this was stage eight. Yeah, it
was a life and death moment. And that's when Patricia,
when I called her about that, and she said, well,
do you know what a guide's spirit guide has? By
(32:18):
the whole conversation, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she
was me and they kind of nudge us, you know,
kind of conversation. So well, that's a good thing because
I could have really hurt that woman in the car
in front of me, and she was, oh, sweetheart, no,
it wasn't that woman's life your guides were saving. It
was yours. And that day completely and utterly changed my life,
if not the other crap hadn't exactly, But these are
(32:42):
things like I I like, I really I thought this
was I didn't know when I first, when we first
started talking about let's do this show, that there would
be so deeply familiar to me because again, like I said,
I hadn't looked at this since all that happened, right,
And it's like, oh wow, I can actually share with
people in this show what these moments were. And it's
(33:05):
much easier to see these moments in retrospective than when
you're in them. Right. So just to reminder to people,
there's no doubt you can. You can't really see it
when you're in it. You have to have space to
integrate and and to to your earlier when you wanted
to call it. There are no mistakes kind of thing.
(33:26):
All of the stuff that happened here. Even when I,
you know, bought the animal spirit oil from the guy
on on Etsy, it's like that wasn't a mistake. That's
how like the birds came right, like you just look
at it. It's like it's dumb. But it wasn't a mistake.
You know, you could have done it a little bit
of a more eloquent way than Wayne on Etsy, But
(33:47):
got to count your baby some birds, you got it.
My wife wanted birds, so I had to go get him. Okay.
So the ninth step is reward, which they call seizing
the sword, which is through great adversary comes i amph
having confronted the greatest fear and survived annihilation, the hero
learns a valuable lesson and is now fully transformed and
(34:09):
reborn with a prize as a reward. So listen, this
is in movies. It comes as treasure tokens. In my case,
secret knowledge, you know, reconciliation also happened, um, the return
of an old friend, whatever it may be. The prize
(34:30):
could assist in the return to the ordinary world. But
there's still a few steps to come. They say, But
that makes sense. It's like it's knowledge for me. It's
like it made me, like that's how I'm not I
used to be so fearful of dying, and now I
have a death bucket list. Like that's a that is
(34:52):
a major change, right, Yeah, yeah, quite a shift, yes,
um So, the tenth stage is the road back. Um So,
having traveled into distant foreign lands and and slaying the dragon,
which I didn't slay the dragons. Dragon actually whispered to me.
So the fear of the dragon maybe here the dragon.
(35:17):
Maybe now it's time for the hero to make their
return journey. Um in. This day's stage mirrors the original
call to adventure and represents another threshold. Um So, this
is to find more new knowledge again, right like, you
keep continuing with this um and they say that. Then
(35:38):
comes the stage of returning to familiarity or the things
left behind be a family, friends, locations, or even behaviors
that were once loved and sacrifice during the journey, because
when you go through this journey, you're not the same person.
You don't attract the same type of people in your life.
You look at them different. They look at you like
you're an alien for real, like these this is part
(36:00):
of what that journey is well and mostly they want
you to be back to who you were. For not everybody,
but a certain percentage will be hands. Yeah, I can't.
Can't you make it like it was before? They can't relate.
I think you know which is scary for them. And
they didn't ask for this, they didn't create it. You know,
(36:21):
it feels like you did it to them sometimes, like
it is very real. Um. And then there's resurrection. So
when it appears the heroes out of the woods, there
comes to final confrontation they can they encounter with death itself. Um, transformed,
you know, so on and so forth. So um uh,
I'm not necessarily sure I get the resurrection to to
(36:43):
take that box, but I think that I'm resurrected as
a different person. Um. It was in life or death.
But go ahead, what do you what you're giving me
a look? Well, I think you know, even the fact
that you left Arkansas recently, is that's a resurrection to
totally Actually, you're actually right, that is right. That is
that you're absolutely right. Um. And then it's in the
(37:05):
in the last one, it talks about return with the elixir. Right,
So following the final battle, the hero finally returns home.
By now personally personal transformation is complete. They're turning home
at a different person, having faced this hardship, so on
and so forth, and the lixture is a treasure they've
returned with. And you know, this could be a sense
(37:26):
of hope, freedom, or even a new perspective to assist
those originally left behind. So that's your that's like the job, right.
So you come back and you have this and now
you're responsible for it, right, You're responsible for this new experience,
this new knowledge um to share, right, Yeah, and it
(37:46):
doesn't mean that you necessarily you have to share it
with the original home base that you left. Like that's
people sometimes confuse that they do, and you know what,
You're right. Sometimes it does and go very well, no,
but you're you're totally right. Like I remember in my
return um, after I took your Tarot class, I would
(38:08):
sit in the what well, actually, no matter what cafe
or restaurant online it was, I'd sit there and read
tarot cards at lunch. People just walk up and say,
read my cards. You know. I was sharing with people
that were not actually so much a part of my
life prior to that. It was an expansion. So you're
absolutely right, and there are people that were from that
ordinary original life that had I was an alien and
(38:31):
and I'm super okay with that. Well, it's like reader,
your what the ghost, what the hell is wrong with you?
For real? It's real and they're trying to protect you,
like that's you know, it's a version of love or
protect themselves, I think in sometimes yeah, but that's so
(38:52):
this is this all came about because of the questions
that we got Christia and just remembering that it is
a journey we are on. It's an unfolding, right, this
is not a linear one and done, okay, check moving
to the next step. It's an unfolding and it changes
(39:14):
and it's organic, and it's just a wonderful gift of it.
And be here for it. I think, like the best
advice I could give from someone who literally documented or
documented it. I came to speak, documented my journey. The
hell is wrong with me. I'm a great podcast co host.
Can't even speak that I documented my own damn journey.
(39:35):
I can reflect back and go through the steps and
share those steps what I can tell you. And this
is where I was so fortunate. I was there for
all of it, the most present I have ever been
in my life. Um, it's really truly and still by
the way, very present, really paid like that is the
big change, you know. Um, And again I'm gonna that
(39:57):
will never We'll never go back ever ever in this life.
Or any other UM and I really do. And I
know it's so lame. I talked about movies a lot,
but I would one of the best heroes journey UM
origin stories that I really ever saw was UM of
recent years is the Iron Man, the Iron Man one,
(40:18):
because that is his origin story and you'll understand you
can actually see that happen UM. And also Store Star
Wars four, which again was the first one in the
seventies that we saw UM of of Luke Skywalker UM.
And I just you know, I think the other thing
I would say to people is when when you're confronted
(40:40):
with things like be curious about it. I think curiosity, UM,
I don't believe it killed the cat. I think it
actually makes it stronger. And to just be present for it,
right and and so really Chris said this question, this
reflection that you had about I'm trying not to make
things black and white, we all that this really helps
(41:00):
you soften because the truth is the twelve steps are
laid out in a very specific, you know, trajectory, but
they don't always unfold, you know, one through twelve. It's
like one through three, then one through three again, then
one through three through six and then then fourth or
six again, Like you know, we go back and forth
and they don't happen within a period of two hour movie.
(41:24):
They happen amongst across the years, decades like this is
it's our life though, right like it's our it's it's
we owe it to ourselves, to our soul to be
open and take the call. And if we do want
to take a break or abandon it, it will still
be there. Yeah, because no is lost, right, no energy
(41:45):
is wasted because we're moving forward, we're expanding. And again
that's the softness. And remember, faith in action is knowing
that that is so, and that is why there is
no wrong answer. Yeah. Actually, so with that, thanks for listening.
Go soften those edges of what you think should have,
(42:06):
would have, could h and know that no energy is lost.
You've got this, And remember her school is hard. And
be the hero of your own journey, guys and gals
in days, be your own hero. But without the other side,
is what you wanted me to say. I had to
add those other words. I had said that. All the
(42:28):
words are good. Thanks everybody, Thanks, thank you, my alf
thank you, could thank you for joining us everyone, and
a special thanks to our producer Joey pat and our
executive producer Maya Cole Howard, who guides us well we
(42:51):
guide you. Hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides,
or shoot us a note at high Hi at vibes
dot store. We want to know what you think, We
want to know what you know, and we want to
hear your stories. And remember, our school is hard without
the other Side. Insider's Guide to the other Side is
(43:11):
a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Spotify,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of My Heart Radio. Hi y'all, I'm Julie. Hi there,
I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the other Side.
Now you all need to know that we are obsessed
with everything on the other side. Yes we are, because
(00:21):
once you learn to navigate the energetic, or to some
the invisible world, life is going to be more fun
and much more serene. Heck, yes it can, because, let's
be honest, brand earth school is hard. In fact, you
taught me that let's crush earth School together. Well, hello,
(00:44):
my witchy woo, how in the hell are you? Hi?
It's always nice when someone testes ingredients. Absolutely, it's always surprised.
So I'm doing great, my help, and how are you?
(01:06):
I'm doing fantastic And it's funny. Um. The cussing part
brought up part of what I was kind of dreaming
about the other night. Um, it's so crazy, um, and
I can't wait to hear what listeners have to say
about this. So I dreamed that I was actually running
for governor of the state in New Mexico. That is awesome.
(01:28):
And of course I cussed because I can't not and
whoever I was running against, I'm sure it was some
douche bag guy and um he uh, I think it
was a heat And he said something about, well, my
you have a foul mouth kind of thing, and I
remember my response is, and you don't because all you
do was lie, because people who cuss tell the truth
(01:50):
like that was in That was in my dream. So
every lookout for governor reader someday. Don't tell me. Don't
tell Michelle Louhan Grisham that because she's our our governor
right now and she's awesome. But anyway, crazy, that's cussing.
So anyway, I'm great, I cuss. I'm happy about it.
(02:13):
The end, full stop. He would say, well, welcome to
this episode, Governor. Will you be lieutenant governor wichy pooh? Absolutely,
if called, I will serve. We'd have a good time
(02:36):
to pay shitty because I looked it up the next morning,
but we'd have fun. We would would be an honorable
job for both of us if we are not electable.
You know, I don't think I am. Either doesn't mean
one day I won't try, but I don't know. Maybe
I am. I think I'm the John Fetterman of seriously, like,
I'm wearing a hoodie right now, just for the record,
(02:57):
And I actually own a John Fetterman hoodie because I
donated to as a campaign and you know, had by
sub merch while I was shopping, and I think I'm
the job and shopping. You know, there's there's nothing like
donating and shopping exactly right. Um. Yeah, but I would think,
because I told Susanne about it, and she's like, yeah, baby,
you'd be like the John Fetterman of a governor's racer.
(03:21):
I'm like, right, your wife is always right. She's always right,
and so we'll just put that into her little vortex.
And you know, I think I think I'd be a
great governor. Just getting there would be the hard part,
because that is a hard anyway. That aside, that's not
why we're here to talk about my dreams. It's not
(03:44):
not why we're here. But it's not not I like that.
It's not not why we're here. But today we have
been inspired by one of our listeners. Oh, by the way,
before you go into that this whole episode, I think
you need to address me as governor. Yeah, governor with
the accident governor, got us governor, got us governor? Governor. Okay, sorry,
(04:12):
go ahead. Yes, one of our magnificent listeners that made
us think so hard that we actually had to piece
together a whole new episode for her, which is awesome.
We really do love it when we hear from you.
It's so much fun for us, right, because then you know,
we can know what's going on for you, what lands
for you, and how can we serve you better? Right,
(04:34):
you know, give context to things, whatever it may be.
So Chris a very thoughtful listener. She says, Hi, friends,
I just finished the quote you are the captain of
your energetic ship, end quote episode, and I loved it.
I have a follow up question at the end when
(04:54):
Brenda says she wanted the psych degree but was counseled
by her guides that it wasn't the right path for
her and her soul's work. Wouldn't that make it the
quote wrong choice for her? I know there's no definitive
right and wrong like the episode talked about, but I'm
(05:14):
trying to wrap my head around the concept of things
not being so black and white. Thanks. It's such a
thoughtful question, right. I love that question because the world really,
in all intents and purposes, is not black and white.
It's not. We live. We swim in gray every day.
(05:37):
I looked at right, we literally swim in gray. And
you know it is our I think, our morality, which
leads to more black and white for us. But when
it just comes to decisions like what should my college
degree be? I think is very valid question and observation
that she had, Yeah, and just again, I think it
(06:00):
was so thoughtful and I appreciate that so much. And
then you know she took the time to send it
to us, which is great, thanks gosa Um. And look,
this is what life would be easier if it was
black and white boring as exactly right, there's not this
(06:21):
you know certainty. Life is messy, and we have to
know that we're co creating with the divine in every step,
and we come to Earth to contribute back to the
divine like this, you know, cosmic al algorithm, where it's
just we're constantly feeding and supporting each other. New things
(06:41):
are being discovered, new options are opening up. When I
was an undergrad, positive psychology was not even a thing, right,
so as when I fished my m b A, I thought,
oh well this would be fun. More studies and be
fun um and So what's important to remember in this
scenario is I didn't usk my guides is yes or no?
(07:03):
I asked, is this an accordance with my highest good?
That's what I asked, right, So it doesn't mean that
even though I said, well, if you ask question that way,
not necessarily right. It's it's not really in scope. But
you know, it would have hurt you, would have hurt you.
It would have been interesting at best, but not applied.
(07:26):
A bit of a distraction from my soul's path, which
is sometimes a fine choice, but it's still my choice.
It's not like they would fire me if I decided
to do that. They might get a little frustrated with me.
Have they ever threatened to strike or walk off? They
may have, but I'm not aware of it. They probably
should have a number of times. I'm pretty sure mine have,
(07:50):
and I think at least two have escaped because I
had that. They just like hit it. They're like, this
bitch crazy, she thinks she's going to be the custom governor.
And they just like they're out. It's awesome. So and
you know, again it's the phrasing and me knowing that
(08:10):
any choice I make is comically my own right so
I'm not going to lose my guides over this. They
will have to adjust their plan and what we've agreed to,
possibly or put it on hold until I get done
with that and decide I'm going back to my other work. Anyhow,
I just probably would have HOWE had gone. Well, it
leads us right, like the whole idea, like when we
(08:30):
um and I'm so happy um that Clarissa, right? Is
it Clarissa chriss? I thought Clarissa Carissa Either way, it's
a beautiful name. I never get him right, so don't
be off. But what I absolutely love about it and
where we ended up after we read that and talked
about it was, in many cases, there are no wrong answers.
(08:52):
There are no mistakes, right, It's really there's no mistakes,
And so we're actually gonna title this there are no mistakes.
And in fact, Brenda got confused a few minutes ago
because I titled it the Hero's Journey, because really the
Hero's dirty is the umbrella over about not they're not
being mistakes. And we've talked briefly about the Hero's Journey before.
(09:14):
I really thought it might be kind of fun to
do a deep dive into it because as I was
doing a deep red rediving because I've I've swam in
the in the Joseph Campbell pool before um when it
comes to well, well, exactly right, and a number of
levels on a number of levels, which I think we'll
talk about, but just to give everybody a sense because
(09:36):
it is, you know, if you are curious, because curiosity
is such a crucial part of being human. If you're
if you're curious, um, it is worth either reading his
book called The Hero with a Thousand Faces or reading
synopsis of it or aspects of it just to understand
and to apply it to your own life, which as
(09:57):
I was going through this, I was like, damn, damn, check,
damn check. Like each stage of it, I was like going, Okay,
I think, um, I've lived that and it's gonna be
really fun, so I can't wait to go through that part. Um.
But just really quickly, to give everybody a little bit
of background on Joseph Campbell is he was a professor
(10:19):
of literature at Sarah Lawrence College and an expert of mythology.
And apparently he spent like five years in a shitty shack.
I call it a shitty shack it doesn't say shitty
on it, but I call it a shitty shack because
you are going to be the swearing governor, because I'll
be the cussing governor. Um Or maybe I should start
as the mayor. Either way, I'll be cussing whatever it
(10:41):
may be. Even if I cleaned the streets, which I
do think the streets now there's a lot of glass,
I'm the cussing the street cleaner. So there you have it, um.
But as he's in a shitty shack, he buried himself,
covered himself in books and read for nine hours a day.
And he did this literally, I want to go back
to five years. So you're committed human if this is
(11:04):
what you decide to do. Um. So what effectively did
was he synthesized these huge volumes of historic, historic heroic
stories and he distilled them all into the hero's journey.
So this makes that we take for granted today because
it keeps unfolding, you know, in different compelling versions. But
(11:28):
it is this you know, higher level of outline. And
why back in the day did they look like this?
Like why did all men I'm showing Brenda, they're like
the little mustache, the round glasses kind of graying thing
with the like suit. It's they all look the same.
They're all twinning back in the day of Joseph Trumble
(11:49):
and this is now where they had lots of options
through social media to be inspired by. Okay, just that
why there's no yeah, but still yeah. I mean they
all looked the same, and then they weren't planning on twining,
but they all did. It's like that there's a memo
that went out all that the same. Um, we should
probably take a quick break, and then we're gonna come
(12:10):
back and we're gonna start talking about the twelve steps
of the hero's journey, different than other twelve step programs.
Correct correct, either is fine, but this is the twelve step.
We'll be right back and welcome back, and go ahead
(12:38):
and start wherever you like, hopefully at the step number one. Well,
I will start in order, which is odd. I usually
like to start at the end and work backwards. But
um so I'm just gonna kind of give you guys
a few quotes that come from this. Um, the generality
of the hero's journey. So, the usual hero, which is us,
(12:58):
by the way, we're all heroes, right, the usual hero
adventure begins with someone from whom something has been taken
or who feels there is something lacking in the normal
experience available or permitted to the members of society. The
person then takes off on a series of adventures beyond
(13:18):
the ordinary, either to recover what has been lost or
to discover some life giving a lixir, now a lixor
don't be so literal, lixer can it just can be
a spiritual thing. Usually is um, it's it's it's usually
a cycle a coming and returning. So just to give
kind of a perspective of kind of the whole journey. UM,
(13:42):
So I'm gonna go through each one, do you guys mind.
We'll try to hit the first six and then we'll
come back and hit the second six and talk about him.
And I'll try to go through is Um as quickly
as I can. But it starts with the ordinary world, right,
It's like the calm before the storm. And so I'm
gonna bring up by the way, I'm okay, I lied.
I'm not making any of this short. Um. I want
(14:04):
for those for those who have seen Iron Man one,
and I mean this was coming, I know, I know,
but it is my favorite origin story because um iron Man,
Um it was his name Peter Stark. I don't know
that was spider Man, whatever the hell his name was
in an iron it Mr Iron Robert Tony Stark, I
(14:26):
got the Stark right. Yes, okay, way to go. What
the hell? Who are you? Who are you channeling that
to you? It must have been Tony Stark, must have
been Tony Stark. So I just want everybody to keep
in mind if you've seen it, I also encourage you
to watch it for and you can say it's for research.
If you don't want to say, admit you watched it
(14:46):
on my podcasting research. This is my podcasting research. I
need to know what the hell these people are talking about.
But the calm before the storm for Tony Stark is
that he was this really wealthy guy could have him
do whatever he wanted. And the reason why we all
iron Man is because he had to go through ship
and he had to learn about himself. He had to
have trials and tribulations, he had to save himself all
(15:08):
of these things. Because do we ever really like just
a rich guy that can have whatever he wants that
inherit is from car We typically don't know. But for real,
we don't. Because we don't, it's not sympathetic character. So
just know the ordinary world is really important. It can
you know, the heroes living in a standard, mundane life,
and for Tony Stark, that's what it was. He could
do whatever he wanted, that was his standard life, going
(15:31):
about their business. So that's that's how it begins. Ordinary world,
our heroes in their comfort zone. Um. And then there's
a call to adventure, and the call to adventure is
a disruption. It's a significant event that threatens um the
way that things were. So this is a challenge that
our hero knows deep down will lead to transformation and change.
(15:53):
So it's like the calling, right, it's like the phone rings.
Pick it up because your transformation is happening. It's getting
ready to start. Be prepared kind of thing. It's kind
of like when Jacob told me put both hands on
the wheel. There's going to be an accident. It's like
things are going to get like it's going to get
pretty rough here to put your hand on the wheel.
So when it comes to the ordinary world, your days
(16:16):
are numbered because they're not going to be ordinary really
any longer. UM. So in this in this second stage,
The psychological symbol for it that they talk about is
that many of us embark on inner journeys following a
hardship in life. And I think this is really important.
The death of a loved one. And this is when
I started going through it, going check for my journey, right,
(16:39):
the death of a loved one, the loss of a job,
physical or mental illness. Um. This stage occurs when it
becomes apparent that to move through suffering one has to
look within, to adventure, into the soul. So I don't
know anybody that hasn't had that calling quite yet, because
it's definitely there. So the third step is fantastic, which
(17:02):
is refusal of the call. It's like, Nope, I'm not
picking up suckers. Um. And I think I I think
I think Joseph Campbell said that. Actually, I think he
said bucks he spent five years in a shitty shack
reading a whole bunch of books. You know he's saying that. Um, So, no,
(17:23):
no compelling story or life would be complete without friction, right,
So we have to have the friction point. So the
hero often resists this call to adventure because it's fear
and self doubt. That's why we'll pick up the phone.
I remember, we're in our comfort zone. Why would we
want something else? Well, because it's because when we're in
our comfort zone, something outside of that with we have
(17:44):
self doubt and fear to get outside of that. It's scary.
I had that check box. I mean because the only
because this is the other thing that he talks about,
and so I love his work and it's so we're
reading folks because he talks about the only way to
grow and live a deeply fulfilling life is to face
(18:06):
the discomfort of suffering m hm, which is so interesting.
I think, um, so many, so many people first of
all resist that, but specifically parents try really hard so
that their children don't suffer. And it's biologically it makes
so much sense, right because your children are an extension
(18:28):
of you. You want to protect. Yeah, that's the only
way they grow. It is, and there's a difference between
you know, a face plant versus that they blow themselves up, right,
So like it's degrees. But well, it's it's funny you
say that, because, Um, I have some people in this
world that I love deeply that are have some really
hard times as an adult because they actually grew up
(18:51):
in this ideal ideolytic with where's the words say it
um ideal childhood Like they were protected and they were
loved so deeply by their parents and all these things,
and then like then they have to start adulting and
ship gets real and they don't know how to deal it.
They can't identify and they didn't know how to deal
So to your point, I have several of those, and
(19:12):
I love them. It's it's the car. It's just part
of life they get because no one gets spared of
being outside your comfort zone. Everyone has to grow and
develop and you know, hit those moral dilemmas and all that,
Like it's all part of the development. It's part of
the plan. It's not the plan gone wrong, right, right,
So we're only on step three, right, We are getting
(19:35):
to step four. But I just want to remind everybody,
for those that have read my book, this will be
actually very familiar as we go through some of these steps.
Because I gotta be honest with you, guys, I haven't
looked at this and since I actually released it, like,
I haven't gone through all of these steps and spent
as much time reading about it preparing for this episode
that I have and I'm like, holy sh it, because
obviously personally, I mean, for me, it was my mom.
(19:57):
I mean, it was the death of my mother that
fun me into a place that was I had no
choice but to be in discomfort because I was in
such terrible grief. Is she there no shit? Um, there's
no secrets from Margaret. Um. So here's my favorite. Step
four is meeting a mentor and there's a picture of
(20:19):
Luke Skywalker and Yoda behind him. Because Star Wars the
what's actually episode it's four, but it's the first one
we ever saw. Is like the epitome of the hero's journey. So, um,
my Yoda was you. You're way better looking than Yoda.
I'm just gonna tell you out loud, practically, twins. You
(20:42):
have such a better head of hair. Um, you're taller. Um,
your hands don't look like claws and hoofs or whatever
it is. Um. Your and your ears are not nearly
as large as as yodas. But um so as the
as our hero faces rises of confidence, a wise mentor
(21:02):
figure appears right so that this they offer inspiration, guidance
understanding Um encourages the hero to have the self belief
to start this new adventure. I don't know. Did you
know at the time that you were signing up for that?
You probably did. No. I mean, remember I was there
(21:23):
because I was a visiting ribbon and gym. That's right, Well,
good visit, and you were out of town, so it
was quite quite possible our past would never have crossed,
that's right. But you came home, and I think you
didn't want to go home because you're grieving, and so
(21:44):
you came came to their house instead. So funny that
you say that, because in this mentor when it talks,
because they talk about like it defines the step, and
then it goes into the psychological symbol. And in the
psychological symbol it says, here when the journey of exploration
has to begin, people are situations into your life at
just the right time. Yeah, guiding you in the right direction.
(22:10):
Isn't that crazy? It's like it's like he sees her
soul um and and it says in most cases these
are chance encounters um that contained a sense of knowing
before the hero leaves on his or her adventure. So
Mentor is number four UM. And then there's they call
crossing the threshold. Right, So this is a pivotal moment
(22:33):
in the journey when the initiation begins, right, So this
occurs when our hero fully commits to their quest, whether
it's physical, emotional, or spiritual. I wanted to bring that
part up because we see lots of movies right TV
shows that has this spiritual don't forget that's the that
(22:53):
is the realm that we all live in who listen
to the show, And to know that a spirit chull
journey UM is probably more in the cards than maybe
many of these other ones UM, because that's just what
we've all kind of signed up for. I think is
why I say that, not that the other ones aren't possible. UM.
And they say that this is the point of no
(23:14):
return totally, like you literally didn't want to go home? No,
I know, I didn't correct um. So because what happens
here is that, like the heroes now embarking on this journey, UM,
the hero enters a new zone, right, and so my
(23:36):
zone got to be this place of UM really trying
to understand. Like I remember, the first book that you
ever sent me was from Concettabor totally, which was to
Dead People See You in the Shower, And that has
been the first book I've given many other people. So
it was a point of learning and understanding because it
was not a world that I had ever been a
(23:57):
part of. It's a very playful totally. I mean I
had Mona that kept saying stuff when she was alive,
and I was like trying to understand. I believed her.
I just never had it in my own well because
you had Mona, so you didn't need to. I had
Mona and I had my mom at the time, because
I lost the both within months. Right way to go, Mona. UM.
(24:23):
So in this just to make sure, Yeah, your mom
is saying, but you needed that space in your life,
otherwise you never would have expanded into it. Yeah she's right, Yeah,
she's right. Mom always mothering me. UM. And this is
(24:43):
what's really important to what you just said. It's like
she's reading my paper. I think I think she is, UM.
But it says, whatever your life was before the call
to action, this is across roads, which is accepted knowing
your life may never be the same. M. Because it
needed to change for me personally. I needed it to Jay,
(25:06):
I needed to grow and needed to evolved. I needed
to expand, UM. And that's exactly what happened. Can we
take a break before your next Yes we can. Okay,
we'll be right back and welcome back. What's our next step,
(25:26):
my own? Our next step is step six, And this
one is so incredible. This is the one I sat
when I was reading this and just having the greatest
like memories pop back up. So this one is um
test allies and enemies, and so now that our hero
(25:48):
has ventured outside of their comfort zone, the true test begins.
This is a stage of acclamizing. I don't know, it's
a big word. Yeah, I said it close. I guess,
um to unknown lands. That's important part. So they're acclimating
to unknown lands. Unknown forces work against them as they
(26:11):
form bombs with allies who joined them along the way,
or force formidable enemies or encounters that have to be conquered.
So throughout this testing time, the hero will be shaped
and molded through adverse or at advert which is fucking
thank you. What the hell is wrong with me? It's
just so I'm so excited um finding deeper meaning in
(26:32):
their life ad mission. Okay, here's why I love this
so much, y'all. I cannot tell you how many times
I will call Brenda and be like this just happened
in the first words out of her mouth, where you're
being test You're being tested my elf, because it happened.
It was real, like I was being tested, and like
it's like they were trying to scare me away. It's like,
(26:52):
what bullshit can we dump on you to scare the
living crap out of you? So you give up whether
whether it was the pendulum going on its own, you know,
whether it was opening a portal in my backyard, and
there's that that fines into the window. But the other
(27:13):
thing is it's also it's not just a test of
um challenge. It's a test of qualifications because it would
be irresponsible for them to let you through without you
gaining some awareness and skill to navigate that. So the
challenge is useful. It's not torture, totally agree. But I
(27:35):
was challenged with some of those forces. Yeah, there's like
gnarly ass forces. Whether it was when Alex ban Camp
called me from Seattle and said I forgot my black
turmaline and the hatman came last night and I talked
to him, and I knew because he goes, and right
(27:56):
before he said it, he goes. But I think this
message was for you. I'm like, well, what did you say?
And Alex said, he said, tell her my name is Bob. Ah,
fuck it, who cares this? That's his name? Um, I
just realized, Oh I said his name. Um, I don't care.
(28:18):
He doesn't. He's not gonna listen anyway. He can assume
me all he wants. Um. So he was a child abuser,
so that you have it. But Bob was the name
of my ex stepdad who beat the living hell out
of me. And if there's any way to try to
get to somebody's weakness and hit him in the knees
is going to be for a like a villain like
the hatman, to say, tell her my name is Bob. Yeah,
(28:39):
the initial he went right to the initial wound. He
went right to the wound. He went right there, and
then and and and then Alex was like, who's Bob?
In the course, I tell him who Bob is? And
um uh And I said, the next time he shows up,
you tell him to go fund himself. And that was
my response. But that's the thing though. It was all
a test and I passed that because it was like, oh, no,
(29:02):
guess what, boogeyman, you ain't scaring me, uh, because that
ship is Halan and it's getting good and like you
can't penetrate that wound. Yeah, you cannot take you can't
take it away from me. Yeah yeah, Okay, So that's
the reason I was so excited about that sexually, like
oop check, it's like you're being tested, my help, And
(29:22):
then I went through all those tests. Those are just
a few. There were so many of them. Um, because
you kept expanding, right, you could have stopped at any stage,
but you just kept expanding that and I think you
had actually said, this is a stage where a lot
of people bail. Yeah, because it's it's scary, and it
can be hard, and it's I've been. I was like, oh,
(29:44):
ship have been? Have I left my have I reached
my limits? Am I supposed stop here? Like I've had
those moments? Yeah yeah, yeah, But people do bail, and
I totally understand why they would bail. Yeah yeah, Um,
I encourage people to not, but you also said that
if you do, it will come back around for you.
We'll come back around, and sometimes it comes back in
(30:05):
the same lifetime, sometimes it's in the next Yeah. So
the seventh is approach to the inmost cave. So this
is having having already crossed the threat across the Jesus
crossed the thing. Hold on, We're gonna try this again.
That was that, that is all made, having already crossed
the threshold and to the unknown and the uncertain, having
(30:29):
faced obstacles and enemies, and having begun to utilize their
qualities along the way. The next stage is another threshold.
This is the beating heart of the hero's challenge, where
again self doubt and fear can arise as another threshold
has to be crossed. This is often a period of respite,
giving the hero time to pause and reflect. Will the
(30:51):
hero make the leap? And I think that's actually what
you're talking about. Where people bail. They bail in that
inmost cave, it's kind of like, Okay, this is my life,
now do I want this to be in my life?
Can I jump into the where who I once was?
And people can? They can fake it, but they can live.
Often what they do is they go, well, I'm just
(31:11):
not going to tell anybody about this, and then they
can keep with the regular life. And then they're like yeah,
and then it eventually blows up right exactly right, which
is fine, it's all fine, right, Okay, So this one
is also really fascinating. Number eight is they call it ordeal.
This is a life or death moment. This can be
(31:35):
a meeting with an ultimate enemy or facing the hero's
deepest fears. There is an awareness that if the hero fails,
their new world or their life could be destroyed. Now,
let's all keep in mind, up, I could have been
killed in a car accident on the four or five
in Los Angeles, California, if I had not listened to
my guide without a doubt, for real. I could have
(31:58):
ignored him. I could have thought I'm hearing things. I
could have done whatever it may be. All the people
I tried to call wouldn't pick up the phone. I mean,
it's very evident that this was stage eight. Yeah, it
was a life and death moment. And that's when Patricia,
when I called her about that, and she said, well,
do you know what a guide's spirit guide has? By
(32:18):
the whole conversation, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she
was me and they kind of nudge us, you know,
kind of conversation. So well, that's a good thing because
I could have really hurt that woman in the car
in front of me, and she was, oh, sweetheart, no,
it wasn't that woman's life your guides were saving. It
was yours. And that day completely and utterly changed my life,
if not the other crap hadn't exactly, But these are
(32:42):
things like I I like, I really I thought this
was I didn't know when I first, when we first
started talking about let's do this show, that there would
be so deeply familiar to me because again, like I said,
I hadn't looked at this since all that happened, right,
And it's like, oh wow, I can actually share with
people in this show what these moments were. And it's
(33:05):
much easier to see these moments in retrospective than when
you're in them. Right. So just to reminder to people,
there's no doubt you can. You can't really see it
when you're in it. You have to have space to
integrate and and to to your earlier when you wanted
to call it. There are no mistakes kind of thing.
(33:26):
All of the stuff that happened here. Even when I,
you know, bought the animal spirit oil from the guy
on on Etsy, it's like that wasn't a mistake. That's
how like the birds came right, like you just look
at it. It's like it's dumb. But it wasn't a mistake.
You know, you could have done it a little bit
of a more eloquent way than Wayne on Etsy, But
(33:47):
got to count your baby some birds, you got it.
My wife wanted birds, so I had to go get him. Okay.
So the ninth step is reward, which they call seizing
the sword, which is through great adversary comes i amph
having confronted the greatest fear and survived annihilation, the hero
learns a valuable lesson and is now fully transformed and
(34:09):
reborn with a prize as a reward. So listen, this
is in movies. It comes as treasure tokens. In my case,
secret knowledge, you know, reconciliation also happened, um, the return
of an old friend, whatever it may be. The prize
(34:30):
could assist in the return to the ordinary world. But
there's still a few steps to come. They say, But
that makes sense. It's like it's knowledge for me. It's
like it made me, like that's how I'm not I
used to be so fearful of dying, and now I
have a death bucket list. Like that's a that is
(34:52):
a major change, right, Yeah, yeah, quite a shift, yes,
um So, the tenth stage is the road back. Um So,
having traveled into distant foreign lands and and slaying the dragon,
which I didn't slay the dragons. Dragon actually whispered to me.
So the fear of the dragon maybe here the dragon.
(35:17):
Maybe now it's time for the hero to make their
return journey. Um in. This day's stage mirrors the original
call to adventure and represents another threshold. Um So, this
is to find more new knowledge again, right like, you
keep continuing with this um and they say that. Then
(35:38):
comes the stage of returning to familiarity or the things
left behind be a family, friends, locations, or even behaviors
that were once loved and sacrifice during the journey, because
when you go through this journey, you're not the same person.
You don't attract the same type of people in your life.
You look at them different. They look at you like
you're an alien for real, like these this is part
(36:00):
of what that journey is well and mostly they want
you to be back to who you were. For not everybody,
but a certain percentage will be hands. Yeah, I can't.
Can't you make it like it was before? They can't relate.
I think you know which is scary for them. And
they didn't ask for this, they didn't create it. You know,
(36:21):
it feels like you did it to them sometimes, like
it is very real. Um. And then there's resurrection. So
when it appears the heroes out of the woods, there
comes to final confrontation they can they encounter with death itself. Um, transformed,
you know, so on and so forth. So um uh,
I'm not necessarily sure I get the resurrection to to
(36:43):
take that box, but I think that I'm resurrected as
a different person. Um. It was in life or death.
But go ahead, what do you what you're giving me
a look? Well, I think you know, even the fact
that you left Arkansas recently, is that's a resurrection to
totally Actually, you're actually right, that is right. That is
that you're absolutely right. Um. And then it's in the
(37:05):
in the last one, it talks about return with the elixir. Right,
So following the final battle, the hero finally returns home.
By now personally personal transformation is complete. They're turning home
at a different person, having faced this hardship, so on
and so forth, and the lixture is a treasure they've
returned with. And you know, this could be a sense
(37:26):
of hope, freedom, or even a new perspective to assist
those originally left behind. So that's your that's like the job, right.
So you come back and you have this and now
you're responsible for it, right, You're responsible for this new experience,
this new knowledge um to share, right, Yeah, and it
(37:46):
doesn't mean that you necessarily you have to share it
with the original home base that you left. Like that's
people sometimes confuse that they do, and you know what,
You're right. Sometimes it does and go very well, no,
but you're you're totally right. Like I remember in my
return um, after I took your Tarot class, I would
(38:08):
sit in the what well, actually, no matter what cafe
or restaurant online it was, I'd sit there and read
tarot cards at lunch. People just walk up and say,
read my cards. You know. I was sharing with people
that were not actually so much a part of my
life prior to that. It was an expansion. So you're
absolutely right, and there are people that were from that
ordinary original life that had I was an alien and
(38:31):
and I'm super okay with that. Well, it's like reader,
your what the ghost, what the hell is wrong with you?
For real? It's real and they're trying to protect you,
like that's you know, it's a version of love or
protect themselves, I think in sometimes yeah, but that's so
(38:52):
this is this all came about because of the questions
that we got Christia and just remembering that it is
a journey we are on. It's an unfolding, right, this
is not a linear one and done, okay, check moving
to the next step. It's an unfolding and it changes
(39:14):
and it's organic, and it's just a wonderful gift of it.
And be here for it. I think, like the best
advice I could give from someone who literally documented or
documented it. I came to speak, documented my journey. The
hell is wrong with me. I'm a great podcast co host.
Can't even speak that I documented my own damn journey.
(39:35):
I can reflect back and go through the steps and
share those steps what I can tell you. And this
is where I was so fortunate. I was there for
all of it, the most present I have ever been
in my life. Um, it's really truly and still by
the way, very present, really paid like that is the
big change, you know. Um, And again I'm gonna that
(39:57):
will never We'll never go back ever ever in this life.
Or any other UM and I really do. And I
know it's so lame. I talked about movies a lot,
but I would one of the best heroes journey UM
origin stories that I really ever saw was UM of
recent years is the Iron Man, the Iron Man one,
(40:18):
because that is his origin story and you'll understand you
can actually see that happen UM. And also Store Star
Wars four, which again was the first one in the
seventies that we saw UM of of Luke Skywalker UM.
And I just you know, I think the other thing
I would say to people is when when you're confronted
(40:40):
with things like be curious about it. I think curiosity, UM,
I don't believe it killed the cat. I think it
actually makes it stronger. And to just be present for it,
right and and so really Chris said this question, this
reflection that you had about I'm trying not to make
things black and white, we all that this really helps
(41:00):
you soften because the truth is the twelve steps are
laid out in a very specific, you know, trajectory, but
they don't always unfold, you know, one through twelve. It's
like one through three, then one through three again, then
one through three through six and then then fourth or
six again, Like you know, we go back and forth
and they don't happen within a period of two hour movie.
(41:24):
They happen amongst across the years, decades like this is
it's our life though, right like it's our it's it's
we owe it to ourselves, to our soul to be
open and take the call. And if we do want
to take a break or abandon it, it will still
be there. Yeah, because no is lost, right, no energy
(41:45):
is wasted because we're moving forward, we're expanding. And again
that's the softness. And remember, faith in action is knowing
that that is so, and that is why there is
no wrong answer. Yeah. Actually, so with that, thanks for listening.
Go soften those edges of what you think should have,
(42:06):
would have, could h and know that no energy is lost.
You've got this, And remember her school is hard. And
be the hero of your own journey, guys and gals
in days, be your own hero. But without the other side,
is what you wanted me to say. I had to
add those other words. I had said that. All the
(42:28):
words are good. Thanks everybody, Thanks, thank you, my alf
thank you, could thank you for joining us everyone, and
a special thanks to our producer Joey pat and our
executive producer Maya Cole Howard, who guides us well we
(42:51):
guide you. Hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides,
or shoot us a note at high Hi at vibes
dot store. We want to know what you think, We
want to know what you know, and we want to
hear your stories. And remember, our school is hard without
the other Side. Insider's Guide to the other Side is
(43:11):
a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Spotify,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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