May 11, 2020 • 50 mins
Lila discusses how she became a sex and intimacy coach and why.
Her relationships were failing and she didn’t really understand why so she became curious. She discovered Tantra and that led her to exploring and a better understanding.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone on Brooke Burke. I'm Megan King and I'm
Sex with Intimcy Coach and Leeldaville. Did you just say,
Megan King that right? She did? She dropped it. Well,
(00:21):
we are in different places of the world. I'm actually
sitting in my bedroom in Malibu and I'm so happy
to see you girls via zoom, but I do miss you.
I know this is our new home, right zoom. How's
where you like to hang out? Chat? Here we are again,
(00:41):
and I sort of feel like I sort of feel
like we should call this episode Loving Leila because we
are getting so much great feedback and our audience um
just absolutely loves you and is learning so much and
enjoying all of our thought provoking conversations. And I I
want to give everybody at to get to know you
better and better understand your history and where you're going
(01:04):
in your thoughts, and I just just dive right into that. Yes,
I do. I think you're a sex and intimacy coach.
So I think everybody's first question, I know mine is
is well, what is that? How is that different? Is different? Yeah?
Well where do you learn about? Yeah? I think it's
(01:26):
different than a sex therapist all of those things. Yeah,
I think. I think the question I get asked is like,
how did you get into this line of work, whether
it's like whether I'm a sex coach or sex therapist
or whatever you title me as, it's like, how did
you get into the work of sex? And I think
we really become the teacher of what we most need
(01:47):
to learn. And I definitely m this is like a
quintessential case of turning my my mess into my mission.
And some of my earliest memories as a child um
around like my sexual curiosity and like I like I
was often naked, and I was always pleasuring myself, and
(02:10):
I was like, this feels really good. I would sneak
my parents, like I'd steal my parents Joy of Sex
book and I'd sneak up into the attic and I
would just like and it was the illustrated version back then,
and I would just spend all my time like looking
through the pages and the girl as a really young girl,
I mean, pleasuring myself. I can remember as early as
(02:30):
four or five, um, and then the Joy of Sex
sex book I reckon was about six, and it's just
like all my curiosities were wrapped up in sex and
so I think I was really gard to do something
in the sexual field because that's what I was most
interested in, UM And so yeah, but then when I
actually came to having sex, I remember times I'd just
(02:54):
be laying there and thinking, oh wow, like who is
this guy having sex with UM? And I would just
be kind of just laying there, just going trying to
derive pleasure out of whatever was given being given to me.
You know. It was kind of that mechanical onslaught and
just going, Oh my gosh. I didn't even know what
(03:15):
to do, and so I didn't I didn't really know
what felt good for me. I didn't know how to communicate,
I didn't know how to change it. And I realized
that I was solely partner pleasing insects. And it's not
that all the sex is terrible, but largely it was
this model of UM feeling super objectified insects and also
(03:37):
using sex kind of as a weapon, like to get
my boyfriends doing exactly what I wanted them to do.
So it was kind of manipulative with it, and um, yeah,
what do you mean because I get them to do?
Can you give an example like I just I wouldn't
dish out sex like it wasn't available unless I was
being treated a particular way and then you then they
(03:59):
would be rewarded in some way with being able to
have sex with me, kind of using it as a
negotiation tool. Yeah. Yeah, So it wasn't about my pleasure,
It wasn't oriented towards me, or it was more it
was all to do with them. Um, But it was
you know, and I ended up like being in like
a string of relationships in my twenties. Um. That really
(04:22):
the common complaint was, um, a lack of sex and um,
yours are there? There's so did you have a high
sexual appetite but the experience wasn't satisfying. Um. I had
a high sexual appetite which was like internalized, it wasn't expressed, um,
(04:42):
And it wasn't authentic. And it was and I was
having sex, but it was more out of duty, like
it really was a bit of a chore. And so
there was no like expression of myself in there. And
I remember even a boyfriend because I was so interested
in sex, and so I would talk about it a
lot and I it um, and I was really interested
(05:02):
in it. But I remember a boyfriend saying to me,
you don't you don't like sex, you just like talking
about it? And you know, he was really right, Um,
But it was being in those kind of relationships and
having so many of them were the common denominator was
really me in all of these relationships. Um. And so
I couldn't really blame the guys anymore. Um. And it
(05:25):
was a really it was a pain point for me.
But that's what really kind of initiated, um, this journey
that I kind of went on from that point on.
It makes inquiry, it makes me think of authenticity and
we've talked about the importance of that before and what
a key part authenticity plays and satisfaction. It's really it's
(05:48):
really powerful. Yeah. And it was really through the like
I needed to figure out what like there was just
no other choice for me. It got to the point
where was no other choice, Like the alternative was just
having unfulfilling sex and deeply unsatisfying relationships and like failing
relationships and just skipping from one relationship to the next,
trying to find what I was looking for but bringing
(06:09):
nothing really to the table. So in twenties at this point, right, Yeah,
I mean no, I was like early twenties actually because
because I started having sex so young, so you're just
trying to create a homeline and so very got it um.
And I mean I've been in this work for I
been exploring this for like eighteen years, so this is like,
(06:31):
this is I'm sadly eight at this point right now. Okay,
So did you just die then that you wanted to
start studying the art? Yea, all of it, But what
probably like the biggest my my entry point ended up
being tantra Um. There wasn't one thing that I that
(06:52):
that I could find um that was going to hit
all the marks that tantra Um really gave me what
I needed to set me off on the journey. So people, yeah,
I know, there's a huge there's a huge misconception about
tantra and people believe, oh, it's about you know, it's
just about sex, and it's about sexual positions and maybe
(07:13):
the Karma Sutra and doing all those practices, and yeah,
it is, But I don't think people realize that tantra
is really a movement. It's a response to the widely
held belief at the time that the body was a
hindrance in attaining enlightenment or self realization. So all the
Enlightenment practices at the time were really um, this is
(07:34):
like back in the Vaders, you know, back in India
where you know, men used to hideaway in case for
years on end and meditate for hours and hours and hours,
and you know, the body was you were to disassociate
from the body and kind of like do away with
the body. And tantra is actually like a recarmation of
the body, saying that no, we are of the body.
(07:57):
The body is sacred and it should be utilized and
can be utilized in order to achieve greater connection and
greater connection with God or the universe or whatever it
is for the individuals. A beautiful book called The Art
of Sexual Ecstasy. It's beautiful illustrations and it's um, you know,
an art and the practice um and actually an education
(08:19):
and experience that you could share with a lover and
its beautiful that yeah. As a very young woman, yeah yeah, um.
So yeah, tantra was really important. Like even yoga that
we like as we know it today, all the poses
and stuff that is essentially an arm of tantra because
it's all the body. Before then, it wasn't of the body,
(08:42):
and then it became of the body. So Tantra really
taught me how to listen to my body and how
to tune in and how to move from a place
of embodiment, so what I was feeling inside to expressing
that outside and for the first time I learned to
listen to myself. And so it was incredibly empowering. Um.
(09:06):
And so yeah, just like a pivotal like a pivotal
chapter in my life. I also studied at the time Taoism,
which is um which is also amazing, but it was
really Tantra was my original opener into this work, and
it had not just a profound experience on my sexual experiences,
but in all areas of my life. Um. What do
(09:28):
you think prevents most women from being able to hear,
connect and listen to their own bodies? Do you think
there's a block awareness? Absolutely? I feel like just in
the society that we live today, we we championed the
mind so much like how often do you find yourself
overriding a sense that you have in your body, a
(09:49):
gut feeling annoing because your head comes in interjects, and
that is champion and then and then we just go
with that, and then you think back and like go, wow,
like my body was actually speaking to me, but but
we don't like put enough emphasis on it, We don't
care about it enough. But your body is communicating to
you all the time. So if you learn to listen
(10:13):
to that, then your life will naturally become more authentic,
more real, more true, You're being more alignment, you'll have
more of the experiences that you want to have. UM.
So it's it's it's actually really simple, but we often
just think of the body as as something to shape
or overcome or you know, we still kind of have
(10:33):
that mindset of like, oh, well, you know, my body
is just about how it looks or um uh, you
know what I can make it do, But it's not
actually like something that we listened to. So that's that
was like, I think it's really key UM in everything
that I do and everything that I offer. But you know,
Tanta also UM can be really steeped in the dogma UM.
(10:56):
And so I knew it wasn't like my only path
and that it really wasn't bringing everything that I needed
in terms of relation or dynamics. And so it wasn't
until I was introduced to the work of Gay and
Katie Hendricks. They live in OHI their therapists. And that
that's when all the pieces of the puzzle came together,
because their work really provided with me with a lot
(11:17):
of the answers that I was looking for in terms
of how to have a relationship that isn't just an
entanglement of all my hurts and wounds. And what's the
book that they both published. I actually did some of
our work with both of them about right. I love
them an incredible book they published, Um and they did
(11:41):
some of their books, and I think and when people
ask me, like I want to have a different kind
of relationship, I want to. I want my relationship be
something else other than what my parents have always recommend.
Their book it's called Conscious Loving m Um, and it
it's interesting. I think it was written in the eighties
or something, so it is kind of old school. But
(12:03):
the gems in that book of phenomenal um it really,
like I said it, so instead of having a relationship
but just that entanglement of like of my well for me,
for of my wounds and my hurts, relationship kind of
took a different shape in which it like I learned
how it could be co creative UM and how to
(12:24):
have a like how to have a greater understanding of myself,
how to how to support my partner in them reaching
their highest potential, and also how to reach my own
highest potential within that. So um, I learned. But what
was that shift like for you, Leila? I mean, I know,
I know that it changed, was it? But it's that
(12:45):
it changed everything? But how did you transfer transfer that
to the body so easily? It seems like it just
came so now, so I already have like, yeah, like
the assumption is with the work that I do, that
I've just naturally am in perrant with all the virtuals
of like of sexuality. And that really wasn't true for me.
(13:05):
I was super shut down and and and not at
all embodied. Like like I said, partner pleasing in itself
is is like discarding what you're feeling, and it's all
about the other person and all about what they want
and all about their pleasure and all about what their
desires are, and you just kind of surrendering and some
coming to that and and so then your life isn't
(13:27):
really representative of your own. Um, And for me, I
would lose myself in relationship like that. And so it
was through like my embodiment work with Tantra and then
fusing that with the work of Gay and Kathy Katie
Hendrix that I learned how to have a relationship without
(13:48):
losing myself or how to be authentic rather than concealing.
So so yeah, and and like so what they're pill
like one of their pillars of all they were in
relationship is around like how to claim one responsibility for
(14:09):
your own experience. So it's not fifty fifty, so I'm
going to bring fifty, you bring and then we'll see
what happens. It's like, no, I I'm bringing a dent
and I claim responsibility for whatever happens and whatever transpires
when I bring that. And so it's not about like
when when something comes up for you, it's not about
(14:30):
putting that on the person or you make me you've
you've caused this. It's like, oh, what in me is activated?
What trauma do I have? What sore points that I
have that is being shown to me when I interact
with with you? You know, it looks that they wrote
about about that. And also they did a couple seminar
(14:53):
workshops was called Getting the Love You Want, So for
really that's interested in deepening their relationship and you know,
disc covering that book, Getting the Lovely Work was that
was a deep dive into um discovery. You know, did
that process of self discovery for you make you want
to work with other couples and then trying to send
(15:14):
back into the work that you're doing now, Because that's
why I'm dying in like how you went from that
your own journey, which sounds like that was an incredible
eppiny for a woman in her twenties to be able
to help other women, women and men, which kind of
brings us to this podcast totally. Like I mean, up
(15:34):
until that point, I've been modeling and doing not for
profit work, and I was really unfulfilled in my work.
Um so in so insects so in life, so in life,
so In says so yeah, So I was really out
of cross roads, it was. And this is about like
a decade into dedicating like my deepest, like the deepest
(15:55):
work that I was doing was around my sexuality, around
connecting with myself, around interacting, um, around having like these
relationships with with men. And I had a lot of relationships. Um.
I think all my friends can attest to that. In
my temneyes, I had so many relationships and lots of
sexual partners too. Um. And but it was about a
(16:16):
decade and the I realized that I wasn't doing what
I wanted to do, and I was questioning, what am
I here for? Um? You know, how can I do
something that is truer to myself? And I was living
with a girlfriend at the time, and she said to me, okay, well,
and I was exploring this topic and she's like, Leela,
what do you love talking about the most? I was like,
(16:37):
that's easy. I love talking about sex in a relationship.
It was like just the easiest answer. And she was like, oh,
there you go, that's what you had to do. And
I'm like, what do you mean? And like all the
fierce ship came up, like it's like what does that mean?
I've never even heard of that? Like what does it?
What shape does that form does that take? Like? And
how you make money from doing something like that? And
(16:57):
so these are all of my inquiries and lots of fear.
But also on like in conjunction with the fear, there
was this realization that I had been doing it all along,
Like I was the girl that all my friends would
come to talk about the issue though having in a relationship.
Like I was so oriented towards it that everybody was
(17:18):
just you know, that's that's who I was in my
community of friends. Um and sort of I've kind of
already been doing it. I just need I just needed
to formalize it more. And so that's when I really
studied sexual wellness and sexology. And then I eventually came
to the work of a woman named Dr Patty Brittain.
She's a sexologist and she had created a university for
(17:40):
sex pages. So that was like huge for me. Yeah,
and you know, I knew that I didn't want to
be a therapist. Um. You know, for me, there's uh,
this in what I understood it at the time of
therapy was there was so much talk in therapy and
it was so head and everything I had learned was
(18:02):
going away from the head and into the body. Um so,
and therapy really has its limits to me. It's like there's, uh,
it's kind of through the lens of there's something wrong
and as a therapist, I need to fix you. So
there's that kind of pathologizing and on the other hand,
it's coaching. It's like not hierarchical at all. There's it's
(18:25):
collaborative rather than yet that hierarchical kind of system. And
you know, sex coaching really allows me to bring all
that I've learned through my experience into it. Um and
it Yeah, it's a collaborative, integrative experience where I work
(18:45):
with my clients UM to discover where they are now,
what has shaped where they are now, and where they
want to go in the future. So um, sex coaches
really know anything from like a Ohan to Shabari, and
so you know, we we are like playing in like
(19:05):
really diverse realms. We're so lucky to have all that
experience and to be able to continue to give expert
advice on so many different topics. There's so much to learn.
And our producers have set us up with a little
surprise you know nothing about. And there's someone in our
waiting room for the podcast and the three of us
(19:27):
don't know who it is. And I'm seeing an image
of a hot shirtless um guy. Um right, let's let's
just do like a little pivot and check that out.
(19:51):
I think how it's gonna work. How's it going? Right?
Weary very much? I was, I was, hold, this is
my attire. So we're looking at a very hunky man
here and nothing but a bow tie with who is
actually shirtless? Ladies, he's got cops so good? Yes, so
(20:14):
okay on our zoom, it says Ryan Worlely. So Hi Ryan,
I'm making nice to me too. Thank thanks for having me.
It's such a vulnerable way with your shirt off. Vulnerable, Ryan, No,
this is actually more posen I'm normally wearing. Yeah, I'm
used to it. Oh my goodness, tell us about you?
(20:36):
What are you doing? So? Basically, uh, well, my name
is Royan Worlely, and I was raised in California, in
the Bay Area, and then I moved to Utah. I
was raised Mormon, I am not anymore. I was married
in the Mormon church and then we were married for
doubt three years together for about five or six, and
(21:00):
then got divorced. It was a sexless marriage and it
was very hard on my confidence in my ego and
everything like that. Um, and I actually got into fitness
because I thought, hey, like, if I look good, then
maybe just you want to And that didn't work. But
I read the Love Language Book. I did all that
kind of stuff too to really make it try to work.
(21:21):
And it didn't. But that's okay, And I found my
love for fitness, and then I found out about Chipping Mills.
Was watching a fitness documentary and this guy was talking
about how I don't know if you guys know him,
t J. Hoban, he was a fitness model or he
is a fitness model, and he was a Chippendal back
in the nineties, and I was like, oh, Chippendals, I've
(21:42):
heard of that. And so I literally just applied online,
submitted some pictures and then got an interview or got
like an audition, and then drove I was still living
in Utah, so I drove out um and then ended
up auditioning and got the job. So been been here
in Vegas ever since. Girl, the chip Dales calendar, know
(22:05):
I had it when I probably had your calendar to brook.
So okay, so I want to ask about Chippendales. Okay.
So I know about Chippendale's from movies and okay, yes, yeah, okay.
So I'm thinking, okay, strippers, male strippers, right, right, and
(22:27):
like hot male strippers. So is that right? Began You've
never been in person to a male review. I know
you need to come, so well, we'll sort that out.
We definitely don't call ourselves strippers. Um, we're performers. You know,
we're dancers. It's a fully choreographed show, so literally there's
no like real freestyle anything. And they can dance. These
(22:50):
boys can dance. Cast like Magic Mike. Yeah right, yeah,
but better. Yeah, we're careful. I live, I worked on
Magic my life. They are. They are phenomenal dancers. Their
bodies are terrible because they have to sustain such strong dancing. Um, Like,
(23:12):
some of our guys have actually worked out with them
and they have to take it easy in the gym,
whereas you know, we're we have a six foot and
up requirement too. We have to be at least six
foot and taller. Whereas you know, Magic Mike is a
bunch of you know, professional dancers from l A who's
very well. But you know, we're a good mix. We
(23:33):
we have a good split cast of you know, break
dancers and all that kind of stuff too. So what
are you guys doing now during quarantine Challenge? We just
launched gosh three or four weeks ago. These at home
parties so we have about two guys in each party
and then we do correct so it's through zoom um
(23:55):
and so people we do it free for like the
first responders or like the versus and any like essential workers.
Is pretty much I are you giggling? I was just
you're probably making the same thing I was. I was like,
well that lends a lot of opportunities now and the adaptation,
I'm just like, it blows my mind. I'm very happy
(24:16):
about this. Yeah. So it's it's a fun party. We uh,
you know, we do like a little strip keys dance.
We play a game of like never have I ever?
We do um you know, we guess the produce that's
in our underwear. Um, so we put like some produce
and then everybody has to get some. It's a it's
a half hour and people seriously love it. So it's good. Yeah,
(24:40):
oh that's awesome. So do you get naked? Naked completely?
We show our butts. We are not allowed to show
frontal um in Vegas. There's a lot if you show
frontal and sell alcohol, like you're not allowed to. And
I wouldn't have this job anyways if I did show
my dick. So hey guys, it's engineer Tory and Ryan.
(25:01):
What if we just show the ladies a little bit
of what you guys can do What do you mean
that I want to bring in the others? Oh, let's
do it. I get any virtual show right now. Oh
my god, Jason's our host in a phenomenal answer. You
(25:23):
can back flip, you could do it all and an
amazing singer too. So yeah, how are you guys? We
are so happy to have you guys. Excellent, We're happy
to be here. This is how we like to start
our new trip and Nails at Home experience because obviously
these people have come from all over the world different situations,
(25:45):
being quarantine or work, or being birthdays or whatever it
may be. So we try to get into a little
bit about them as well as give them a little
information about ourselves. So we always like to start this
off with the game of never have I ever. You
have to be honest, and yes, honesty is key, so no, no,
not for me. We like to start fingers in the
(26:08):
air like this. All right, So I'm sue. You know
the rules. If you've done what we ask you put
a figure down and normally ask them to drink if
you put a figure down, and then even if you
haven't done it, we say drink anyway, because the more
you drink. The more the better it may seem that
we actually might be there in the living rooms, in
their bedrooms with you. So let's start this. Let's get crazy.
Let's go. Never have I ever done double penetration? Lelo
(26:35):
definitely put her finger down. I'm the sex coach. Guys,
Come on, I have to. I have to. You have
to experience this wait with her without a partner, like
with with an inanimate object or human being, whichever one suit.
Shoot your will there, m I'm still working on the butt.
(27:03):
Switch it up, all right, Megan, why don't you think? Yeah?
Okay for you guys, let's switch it up for the
chip and deals, all right. Never have I ever gotten
a boner while performing full full bone or what are
we talking? Start Let's start with a chub and then
(27:24):
we'll go to the full do alright. I definitely had
a full bone for like half of a show. Probably
got a lot of kicks. I forgot that story, please please,
So long story short in a nutshell. I went out
(27:44):
the night before, I had like a big night obviously
it's Vegas, and met someone and decided we were gonna
like hook up or whatever. But a little whiskey dick
so definitely took imagine magic blue pill, but it was
maybe it was really early in the morning, three or
four in the mornings. I took it, did the business,
went home, But those side effects last quite a while,
(28:06):
and so I came into work the next evening and
I mean just the blow of the wind and it
was just and I mean the boys would amplify off
of it. They would run basking like a little paddle
the head and it would just go. And so the
whole night I was like, it was like just the
target of ambibition for this phone and running around the
stage and I was like, I'm sorry, guys, I'm just
(28:27):
gonna make it away right now. Clearly I have a
log in my pants. But enjoying the show. Oh, it
was like it's a periwinkled like Skinny Taylor like suits
from sticks here in Las Vegas. I mean you can
see the whole thing, like there was nothing hidden at
that point. So yeah, yes, and it was hilarious. Yeah. Yeah.
(28:52):
Time he had to go out. Every time he had
to go out, we would like hit it or like
do whatever, just get a question and you boys. Never
have I ever had sex with an audience member backstage
not backstage stage, but someone from the shy afterwards, someone
(29:18):
who attended. Correct, I don't know one guy that has
does it happen? Let's give the ladies to the hope
than depu. Do you mean I had my first threesome
because of it? Everyone everyone has their own like everyone
has their own things. You know, you never know what's
(29:38):
going to be in the audience at night, So it
just depends on like what audience pops in at night.
And if it's someone that fits your demographic, then meet
him in the bar later if you drink, do you
have your you have your choice of ladies. I'll take
that one. Roll a dexls. You question, I have knowingly
(30:00):
slept with a married woman? No, yes, no married women? Okay,
Ryan naughty, We just got really fine. Why would you
do that? Um? Yeah, she she was hot, hot, hot,
(30:21):
unhappy and ye perfect combo there, I think have that conversation.
We've actually even had guys um come with their wives
trying to get one of us to sleep with their wife,
like we had. That happened to very often. Well that
would truly really we're going to get into one another
(30:49):
one of her episodes as we define all of the
terms out there that people don't know. I had to
look that one up, actually, which one could, gotcha? So
it's a husband is trying to lend their wives to
one of the performers sexually did because the husband want
to watch. Usually yeah, I've never been asked. I'm kind
(31:10):
of offended, but um, yeah, I'm good. Okay. Never Never
have I ever had someone else watched me having sex actively,
like not just hiding. Oh definitely, definitely. There was one
time there was not did it turn you on? More? No?
(31:34):
I wannestly it was a little awkward for me. I
think if I was attracted to the other person, I
probably would be, you know, in my sense I was.
I was like, oh, that's kind of cool, all right,
what else you got? What else you gotta give it
to us? Never have I ever experienced annual pleasure I
(31:56):
I got I got my buttholeles one time and I
was not a fan, but surveying the other chip and
it was like most of them like it, and I
was like, oh no, not for me. Sometimes people swing
birthday So never no, never have I ever um experienced
pleasure from sex toys? O good question. Hey, Jason, and
(32:18):
we have a winner Jason has no fingers. So much fun. Guys.
Thank you guys. You get the chance. If you guys
want to see any of these beautiful shirtless men like
Ryan and your living room, check out Chip and Deal
(32:40):
dot com. You know. The whole time, I felt like
I was cheating on Channing. I was like, this isn't
right for me. I didn't know what to say when
he sit I was guessing earlier today and I was like,
(33:03):
all right, I think it's either because since we had
the hint the Bachelorette hint, I was like, all right,
is there a bachelourette from the show or is it
a stripper? Yeah, I haven't like not, I just I
didn't know what to say. Was you show up on
our screen and it's hard to it's hard to leave
that that still goes on. I mean that seems like
I haven't. I was like in my twenties. I think
(33:24):
I was. I was felling younger when I saw my
nail with you. That was fun though they were it
was a lot of guys. Yeah, it's fun thing to
do with a group of girlfriends. It's de finding like
you want to like have a night out and just
have that kind of experience. I think it's great. And
what some something to look forward to is that field
trip to Vegas that we're all going to take. I know,
(33:45):
I know, hey, like I would like looking for you.
Since the subject of um sex twice came up, I
had a really interesting conversation with my girlfriend the other day,
so I wanted to get your take on it, both
of you. UM, you know, we we we've been talking
a lot about female sex toys and the subject of
male sex toys doesn't come up very often. And I
(34:09):
am understanding, you know, just statistically that male sex toys
are a big seller. And my girlfriend UM got one
in a gag bag and proposed it to her partner
and it was the first time experience and he was
open but quite weirded out. And I started thinking about it.
I've actually never had an experience with a male partner
(34:30):
with a male sex toy either, and UM, at the
end of the suggestion, it ended up not happening because
our partner was quite uncomfortable and it wasn't a deal
though for anal penetration. It was actually a I like
the way she described it, sort of like a rubble
rubber vagina for you know, yeah, penetrated penetrative pleasure. And
(34:54):
I just wanted to kind of get your take on that.
And I'm curious if we even know how many many
men are open to experiencing that and if that's something
that's exciting to introduce, or how you feel about it.
I've never done a great question. Yeah you Megan, I
mean that seems um, I have it, And you know,
I don't know. I don't I talked to my girlfriends
(35:16):
about sex toys, but um and with themselves alone or
with a partner, But I don't know that I've necessarily
had a lot of conversations surrounding sex toys, uh get
with being used to get pleasure out of the mail.
So I'm interested to see what your take is on this, Leila. Yeah,
I mean, okay there. First of all, I think for
(35:40):
a lot of especially straight heterosexual male men, that there
is a stigma around um sex toys and maybe needing
that um, needing that desiring that. It's like I think
a lot of men that I've I've been with and
a lot of my coaching clients, they're just really satisfied
(36:02):
with the actual real thing, Like they don't need extra
like bells and whistles. It's kind of it's pretty simple
for them. Um. But then there's a whole group of
other people where the idea of using sex shows is
really exciting and fun and interesting, but there's no real
rhyme or reason for it. I just know that a
lot of heterosexual men tend to shy away from from
(36:25):
using sex toys. And do you think they use it
on their own? No? Alright, I know some men absolutely
that explore and I think a lot of men who
haven't found partners or who use porn a lot sometimes
use them actually, you know, and they don't speak about it.
(36:47):
So there is that that shame factor where it is
just remains hidden. Um. So we're not we're not hearing
about it. Um. But yeah, I think And also sexuality
for a lot of people isn't something that they that
they get adventurous with. Even so sex toys doesn't even
really play a factor. Very differently in the gay community,
(37:07):
where there is an open exploration of what is possible
sexually and finding new ways of cleasuring oneself and each other,
and so there's this abdoption of using various tools for that. Um.
So you know there, I mean, I'm speaking super generally, UM,
I haven't experienced using sex toys a lot with men
(37:29):
like cockerings, yes, but not UM. What is explaining with
you know? With UM? Yeah, I haven't. I haven't known
a lot of men to to want that. But God,
I think you know. I'm all about sexual explorations, so
I'm like just bringing as many different tools and things
you can play with as possible. Yeah, I mean, I
(37:50):
was curious because I've never experienced anything like that, and
I get the resistance from the from the male perspective,
but I'm just curious. Should we do email question? Listen? Yeah,
I think we have time for one good one and
Africa if you don't mind. One I found very interesting.
We have a handful here, but the one that I'm
super interested to hear about, UM is from Moira. Her
(38:13):
name is Moira. It's Morris. Morris says. I'm fifty two.
I've been in menopause for three years. Started bioidentical hormones immediately,
took a little bit to get the right mix. I
started with the new doctor last year in June who
monitors my hormones, and I feel great. My question, did
you guys is the partner I had mentioned my clip
is very large. Now it's a small penis and I
(38:34):
have no discomfort. However, I've searched the internet and as
my doctor if it's normal to have your clitterist grow
on bioademic, bioidentical hormones, and she said no, I'm not
complaining as I have great pleasure and can orgasm easily. However,
I'm just wondering why is there no WINFO and where
do I go for thanks? Oh yeah, Lela. So you know,
(38:58):
the bioidentical home moans are technically classed as a dietary supplement,
and this is as far as I know, so please
tell me if I'm wrong. But UM, from what I
understand is that their class is a dietary supplement, so
they're not required to be tested for safety UM. And
they don't have to be evaluated for side effects. So
if there are side effects, UM, you don't have to
(39:20):
notify the f d A UM. So if this woman,
I'm assuming that she's on testosterone UM. And when you know,
when you increase test like, testosterone is essentially what enlarges
and develops the penis, So in a will a woman
then you can develop virilization, which is UM. Male characteristics,
(39:45):
so that could come about as like extra hair or
chest hair or enlarged cletteress um. So it's interesting that
you're What I would say to this woman is you
really have to when you're doing biodenical hormones UM for menopause.
And I'm sure can attest to this. It's really important
that you work closely with your doctor and you monitor
(40:09):
your dosage, how much you're having, how frequently, and to
monitor like how your body is responding because this is
so individual. I don't think everybody who takes bioidentical hormones
body responds the way that yours is UM, so maybe
that's why it's not talked about. What I'm really happy
to hear from you, though, is that there isn't there's
no shame around it, and you're talking about it, and
(40:30):
I think that is one of the hindrances of why
we don't hear more about it is people just aren't
discussing it. So I think that's you know, I had
a conversation about this UM with Dr Chris Assandra, who
we had on on a previous episode, So I would
recommend revisiting that episode because he really breaks down all
things in that world and the use of testosterone, and
it absolutely as a characteristic. I don't think it is
(40:52):
a negative um change at all. There is increased blood
flow and the quitterist does change, not always, but it
does for some women, which stimulates a more intense orgasm.
So things change. You're a bit moisture. Um, you could
have an enlarged clitteris and have some of the other
side effects that you mentioned as well that would be
less de virable, like facial hair and at me and whatnot.
(41:15):
So you have to, you know, like the list said,
work closely. But um, if you're not uncomfortable about that,
I would see that to be a great opportunity for
a greater pleasure. Yeah, I think I look around with
a little more blood flow, and if it's undesired, go
and see your doctor and change the dosage. You know,
like it's but you have to. I love like Brooks
(41:38):
relationship with the doctor. They work really closely together, and
I think you need to really be able to trust
your practitioner and be able to lean into that. So
make someone with the right one, Like, it doesn't feel
good to me that your doctor said no when it's
likely that there being comments about that. Yeah, I had
the discussion very early on the Sassandra, and I want
(41:59):
to add to because we've talked about this in length,
really feeling comfortable with the way that your own body looks,
and I think that is a reaction that a lot
of women might have that it might not feel feminine
or pretty and the change might be a bit uncomfortable.
So it's really important to have that conversation with your partner,
especially if it allows you to experience great pleasure is
(42:21):
to find your own confidence and comfort, um in your
ever changing body, which which happens all the time. So um, yeah,
I'd be a bit concerned too that that was never
brought up because I even know that doctor. Yeah, and
if you search on internet, you can find that people
are experiencing that. M hmm. Thanks guys. Okay, um, well
(42:45):
that was fine. What an exciting surprise we had. We
have to learn about Lela, have some shippindale surprise us
for a little bachelorette kind of zoom action, right, you know,
before we say goodbye, can I ask you one more question, Leila,
just to sort of wrap up. You know, what what
you do and your expertise for someone that's looking to
(43:07):
work with UM. Someone possibly you or someone else in
your field, and wants to get a deeper understanding or
develop UM greater intimacy in their own relationships. How do
they go about that and find someone and and find
the right fit and well, you know what would you recommend? Yeah,
the right fit is definitely the UM the path forward.
(43:31):
Like I I it's really important for me and who
I work with that you know, if you hear my
story like I've shared today and any of that resonates
with you, it's likely that I have something that could
help you deep in your relationship. And it's going to
be different for every every coach that you encounter UM.
You know, some people specialize in like l g b
(43:52):
q I A work or transgender work, or you know,
have gone really really deeply into kink and b DSM
and and you know, dorm relationships and you know, so
it's really finding the right fit UM. They're just so
you know, there's such sort of vast array of sexual
experience and values and belief in human sexuality. So it's
(44:14):
finding the right fit for you. And so there, you know,
you can search online if you're looking, if you are
interested in UM working with me and something I've said
has resonated with with you. Then you know, a lot
of my work that I'm focusing on right now is
that I don't want women to have to go and
spend the time living in an ashram in India like
(44:37):
I did to develop these skills. UM. I really want
what I've learned to to be available for you and
to be digestible and accessible. So you know, I want
to teach people who are moms who don't have enough
time to like even have a shower, let alone, like
(44:58):
go off and let it learn met aitation and and
all of these these skills. So I'm currently working on
a coaching series that really allows women to have ongoing
access to a selection of tools and practices so they
can uncover their own authentic expression and sex and create
the sex lives and intimacy that they're really yearning for.
(45:19):
So it's these tools that allow you to like shift
and explore from the inside out. UM. So rather than
giving like just a bunch of UM mechanical techniques UM
or mechanics and techniques, these like tools really allow you
to integrate into your everyday life, so it's not an
extra thing to do UM and so it's just something
(45:41):
you can infuse into everything you do, so you can
can become more free, more uncensored, unedited and embodied. UM
and all of that resides within you. So in coaching,
were we seek what are you? What are you looking
to achieve? And this is a pathway forward and so yeah,
that's what I work on. So if anybody is interested
(46:02):
in working with me or and doing that kind of work,
you can go over to my website and reserve your
spots for the coaching series and UM all you can
go to my website is loving Lela dot com l
I L A U, or you could go to Instagram
and click through in the bi bio. So it's again
loving at loving Lela is my handle UM and Leela
(46:22):
I think. I think. So when I first learned about
UM sex Coaching and I I was, my initial reaction was, oh,
kind of taboo kind of reaction. You know, I'm just
a regular girl from the Red West. And Um, after
getting to know you and understanding what it is, it's
it's so much. It's not scary, it's so beautiful and
(46:45):
it's such a gift and you're so talented and what
you share and how you help others grow and learn.
And I listened to some of my friends who struggle
in their relationships, and I've asked if they've gotten counseling,
and they'll say yes or no, But really, what are
they're concerned about is the intimacy. They'll say, they'll say, oh, well,
the sex is great. But then at my responses, but
(47:07):
you're you're talking about intimacy, you know, you're talking and
and that's what you do, Leela. You help so many people.
It's not just about sex. It's about intimacy and sex,
and it's all one. And so I encourage every area
of your life. You know, it's about channeling instinct and
that true emotion and that authentic intimate, intimate connection with oneself,
(47:30):
and so then you can go about sharing that connection
with other people in sex or like anything that you do,
anything that you create. You know, I encourage anybody who's
who is just whose interest is is Pacay just a
little bit to look La and check her out and
just read your read her bio, look at her website,
and then you know, take the next step. She's amazing
(47:52):
and she's You're such a gift to us. We're so
lucky to have you and hearing your story. It never
gets old. It's it's so good. And we're just going
to continue to have these car versations because it's really
about educating ourselves and um, you know, bringing up thought
provoking topics and you know sometimes they're light and funny
and humorous and sexy and uncomfortable and just an absolute
learning opportunity. But you know, it was really funny. We
(48:13):
we um um off the podcast. You know, the three
of us had a great conversation the other day and
we're always cracking up about how different we all are
and um, you know, the knowledge base that we bring
to these conversations I think is um it's just you know,
it's it's it's such a great learning opportunity. But we
were talking about sex terms the other day, do you remember,
(48:35):
And we were teasing Megan because you didn't know what
peggan was and Leland I did to be completely transparent
and honest, I actually had to look it up a
year ago because I was in a relationship with somebody
who had all these like terms and you know he
was it was a whole other world for you. But
I thought it would be really fun to do an
episode where we can start unpacking UM ways to refer
(48:55):
to different sexual experiences, which will help your searching, It
will help your discovery, It would help you find a
narrative for your own dialogue. But it's also just probably
a good idea at this point in our life to
you know, to educate ourselves in that space. So I
think we should do a fun episode about that. Let's
do that. It sounds like so much fun and so
useful because it really like broadens the scope of possibility
(49:19):
and yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean and and just finding
a voice for for all of those things is it's
going to be really helpful to so many women. Yeah,
it really helped also bridge that like am I normal?
Am I? You know? Broken? When you hear what like
that fast array of human sexuality experience that's out there
(49:41):
and you're like, oh, wow, yeah I have normal something,
maybe you'll be more open minded to figuring out whether
it's for you or not, whether you like it or not,
or establishing boundaries where something like that might be completely
off the table for you. And you know, that's what
I hope that people start to define UM through these conversations,
(50:01):
is what they what they want and how they can
tap into their own personal desires, what's okay and what's
not okay, and to find confidence and and um really
painting that picture for themselves and their partners. You know that. Well, lady,
such a great day, so much fun to have some
(50:23):
boys on the screen. But I know, I'm great to
see both of you guys. And if anyone wants to
share any listener questions that we could get to on
the show, please messages on Instagram at instimant Knowledge podcast
or you can email us. You can email at i
K at I heart media dot com. That's all right,
(50:46):
we'll see you and we'll hear you next week. Have
a great, wak great. Subscribe to Intimate Knowledge on I
R Radio or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hi everyone on Brooke Burke. I'm Megan King and I'm
Sex with Intimcy Coach and Leeldaville. Did you just say,
Megan King that right? She did? She dropped it. Well,
(00:21):
we are in different places of the world. I'm actually
sitting in my bedroom in Malibu and I'm so happy
to see you girls via zoom, but I do miss you.
I know this is our new home, right zoom. How's
where you like to hang out? Chat? Here we are again,
(00:41):
and I sort of feel like I sort of feel
like we should call this episode Loving Leila because we
are getting so much great feedback and our audience um
just absolutely loves you and is learning so much and
enjoying all of our thought provoking conversations. And I I
want to give everybody at to get to know you
better and better understand your history and where you're going
(01:04):
in your thoughts, and I just just dive right into that. Yes,
I do. I think you're a sex and intimacy coach.
So I think everybody's first question, I know mine is
is well, what is that? How is that different? Is different? Yeah?
Well where do you learn about? Yeah? I think it's
(01:26):
different than a sex therapist all of those things. Yeah,
I think. I think the question I get asked is like,
how did you get into this line of work, whether
it's like whether I'm a sex coach or sex therapist
or whatever you title me as, it's like, how did
you get into the work of sex? And I think
we really become the teacher of what we most need
(01:47):
to learn. And I definitely m this is like a
quintessential case of turning my my mess into my mission.
And some of my earliest memories as a child um
around like my sexual curiosity and like I like I
was often naked, and I was always pleasuring myself, and
(02:10):
I was like, this feels really good. I would sneak
my parents, like I'd steal my parents Joy of Sex
book and I'd sneak up into the attic and I
would just like and it was the illustrated version back then,
and I would just spend all my time like looking
through the pages and the girl as a really young girl,
I mean, pleasuring myself. I can remember as early as
(02:30):
four or five, um, and then the Joy of Sex
sex book I reckon was about six, and it's just
like all my curiosities were wrapped up in sex and
so I think I was really gard to do something
in the sexual field because that's what I was most
interested in, UM And so yeah, but then when I
actually came to having sex, I remember times I'd just
(02:54):
be laying there and thinking, oh wow, like who is
this guy having sex with UM? And I would just
be kind of just laying there, just going trying to
derive pleasure out of whatever was given being given to me.
You know. It was kind of that mechanical onslaught and
just going, Oh my gosh. I didn't even know what
(03:15):
to do, and so I didn't I didn't really know
what felt good for me. I didn't know how to communicate,
I didn't know how to change it. And I realized
that I was solely partner pleasing insects. And it's not
that all the sex is terrible, but largely it was
this model of UM feeling super objectified insects and also
(03:37):
using sex kind of as a weapon, like to get
my boyfriends doing exactly what I wanted them to do.
So it was kind of manipulative with it, and um, yeah,
what do you mean because I get them to do?
Can you give an example like I just I wouldn't
dish out sex like it wasn't available unless I was
being treated a particular way and then you then they
(03:59):
would be rewarded in some way with being able to
have sex with me, kind of using it as a
negotiation tool. Yeah. Yeah, So it wasn't about my pleasure,
It wasn't oriented towards me, or it was more it
was all to do with them. Um, But it was
you know, and I ended up like being in like
a string of relationships in my twenties. Um. That really
(04:22):
the common complaint was, um, a lack of sex and um,
yours are there? There's so did you have a high
sexual appetite but the experience wasn't satisfying. Um. I had
a high sexual appetite which was like internalized, it wasn't expressed, um,
(04:42):
And it wasn't authentic. And it was and I was
having sex, but it was more out of duty, like
it really was a bit of a chore. And so
there was no like expression of myself in there. And
I remember even a boyfriend because I was so interested
in sex, and so I would talk about it a
lot and I it um, and I was really interested
(05:02):
in it. But I remember a boyfriend saying to me,
you don't you don't like sex, you just like talking
about it? And you know, he was really right, Um,
But it was being in those kind of relationships and
having so many of them were the common denominator was
really me in all of these relationships. Um. And so
I couldn't really blame the guys anymore. Um. And it
(05:25):
was a really it was a pain point for me.
But that's what really kind of initiated, um, this journey
that I kind of went on from that point on.
It makes inquiry, it makes me think of authenticity and
we've talked about the importance of that before and what
a key part authenticity plays and satisfaction. It's really it's
(05:48):
really powerful. Yeah. And it was really through the like
I needed to figure out what like there was just
no other choice for me. It got to the point
where was no other choice, Like the alternative was just
having unfulfilling sex and deeply unsatisfying relationships and like failing
relationships and just skipping from one relationship to the next,
trying to find what I was looking for but bringing
(06:09):
nothing really to the table. So in twenties at this point, right, Yeah,
I mean no, I was like early twenties actually because
because I started having sex so young, so you're just
trying to create a homeline and so very got it um.
And I mean I've been in this work for I
been exploring this for like eighteen years, so this is like,
(06:31):
this is I'm sadly eight at this point right now. Okay,
So did you just die then that you wanted to
start studying the art? Yea, all of it, But what
probably like the biggest my my entry point ended up
being tantra Um. There wasn't one thing that I that
(06:52):
that I could find um that was going to hit
all the marks that tantra Um really gave me what
I needed to set me off on the journey. So people, yeah,
I know, there's a huge there's a huge misconception about
tantra and people believe, oh, it's about you know, it's
just about sex, and it's about sexual positions and maybe
(07:13):
the Karma Sutra and doing all those practices, and yeah,
it is, But I don't think people realize that tantra
is really a movement. It's a response to the widely
held belief at the time that the body was a
hindrance in attaining enlightenment or self realization. So all the
Enlightenment practices at the time were really um, this is
(07:34):
like back in the Vaders, you know, back in India
where you know, men used to hideaway in case for
years on end and meditate for hours and hours and hours,
and you know, the body was you were to disassociate
from the body and kind of like do away with
the body. And tantra is actually like a recarmation of
the body, saying that no, we are of the body.
(07:57):
The body is sacred and it should be utilized and
can be utilized in order to achieve greater connection and
greater connection with God or the universe or whatever it
is for the individuals. A beautiful book called The Art
of Sexual Ecstasy. It's beautiful illustrations and it's um, you know,
an art and the practice um and actually an education
(08:19):
and experience that you could share with a lover and
its beautiful that yeah. As a very young woman, yeah yeah, um.
So yeah, tantra was really important. Like even yoga that
we like as we know it today, all the poses
and stuff that is essentially an arm of tantra because
it's all the body. Before then, it wasn't of the body,
(08:42):
and then it became of the body. So Tantra really
taught me how to listen to my body and how
to tune in and how to move from a place
of embodiment, so what I was feeling inside to expressing
that outside and for the first time I learned to
listen to myself. And so it was incredibly empowering. Um.
(09:06):
And so yeah, just like a pivotal like a pivotal
chapter in my life. I also studied at the time Taoism,
which is um which is also amazing, but it was
really Tantra was my original opener into this work, and
it had not just a profound experience on my sexual experiences,
but in all areas of my life. Um. What do
(09:28):
you think prevents most women from being able to hear,
connect and listen to their own bodies? Do you think
there's a block awareness? Absolutely? I feel like just in
the society that we live today, we we championed the
mind so much like how often do you find yourself
overriding a sense that you have in your body, a
(09:49):
gut feeling annoing because your head comes in interjects, and
that is champion and then and then we just go
with that, and then you think back and like go, wow,
like my body was actually speaking to me, but but
we don't like put enough emphasis on it, We don't
care about it enough. But your body is communicating to
you all the time. So if you learn to listen
(10:13):
to that, then your life will naturally become more authentic,
more real, more true, You're being more alignment, you'll have
more of the experiences that you want to have. UM.
So it's it's it's actually really simple, but we often
just think of the body as as something to shape
or overcome or you know, we still kind of have
(10:33):
that mindset of like, oh, well, you know, my body
is just about how it looks or um uh, you
know what I can make it do, But it's not
actually like something that we listened to. So that's that
was like, I think it's really key UM in everything
that I do and everything that I offer. But you know,
Tanta also UM can be really steeped in the dogma UM.
(10:56):
And so I knew it wasn't like my only path
and that it really wasn't bringing everything that I needed
in terms of relation or dynamics. And so it wasn't
until I was introduced to the work of Gay and
Katie Hendricks. They live in OHI their therapists. And that
that's when all the pieces of the puzzle came together,
because their work really provided with me with a lot
(11:17):
of the answers that I was looking for in terms
of how to have a relationship that isn't just an
entanglement of all my hurts and wounds. And what's the
book that they both published. I actually did some of
our work with both of them about right. I love
them an incredible book they published, Um and they did
(11:41):
some of their books, and I think and when people
ask me, like I want to have a different kind
of relationship, I want to. I want my relationship be
something else other than what my parents have always recommend.
Their book it's called Conscious Loving m Um, and it
it's interesting. I think it was written in the eighties
or something, so it is kind of old school. But
(12:03):
the gems in that book of phenomenal um it really,
like I said it, so instead of having a relationship
but just that entanglement of like of my well for me,
for of my wounds and my hurts, relationship kind of
took a different shape in which it like I learned
how it could be co creative UM and how to
(12:24):
have a like how to have a greater understanding of myself,
how to how to support my partner in them reaching
their highest potential, and also how to reach my own
highest potential within that. So um, I learned. But what
was that shift like for you, Leila? I mean, I know,
I know that it changed, was it? But it's that
(12:45):
it changed everything? But how did you transfer transfer that
to the body so easily? It seems like it just
came so now, so I already have like, yeah, like
the assumption is with the work that I do, that
I've just naturally am in perrant with all the virtuals
of like of sexuality. And that really wasn't true for me.
(13:05):
I was super shut down and and and not at
all embodied. Like like I said, partner pleasing in itself
is is like discarding what you're feeling, and it's all
about the other person and all about what they want
and all about their pleasure and all about what their
desires are, and you just kind of surrendering and some
coming to that and and so then your life isn't
(13:27):
really representative of your own. Um, And for me, I
would lose myself in relationship like that. And so it
was through like my embodiment work with Tantra and then
fusing that with the work of Gay and Kathy Katie
Hendrix that I learned how to have a relationship without
(13:48):
losing myself or how to be authentic rather than concealing.
So so yeah, and and like so what they're pill
like one of their pillars of all they were in
relationship is around like how to claim one responsibility for
(14:09):
your own experience. So it's not fifty fifty, so I'm
going to bring fifty, you bring and then we'll see
what happens. It's like, no, I I'm bringing a dent
and I claim responsibility for whatever happens and whatever transpires
when I bring that. And so it's not about like
when when something comes up for you, it's not about
(14:30):
putting that on the person or you make me you've
you've caused this. It's like, oh, what in me is activated?
What trauma do I have? What sore points that I
have that is being shown to me when I interact
with with you? You know, it looks that they wrote
about about that. And also they did a couple seminar
(14:53):
workshops was called Getting the Love You Want, So for
really that's interested in deepening their relationship and you know,
disc covering that book, Getting the Lovely Work was that
was a deep dive into um discovery. You know, did
that process of self discovery for you make you want
to work with other couples and then trying to send
(15:14):
back into the work that you're doing now, Because that's
why I'm dying in like how you went from that
your own journey, which sounds like that was an incredible
eppiny for a woman in her twenties to be able
to help other women, women and men, which kind of
brings us to this podcast totally. Like I mean, up
(15:34):
until that point, I've been modeling and doing not for
profit work, and I was really unfulfilled in my work.
Um so in so insects so in life, so in life,
so In says so yeah, So I was really out
of cross roads, it was. And this is about like
a decade into dedicating like my deepest, like the deepest
(15:55):
work that I was doing was around my sexuality, around
connecting with myself, around interacting, um, around having like these
relationships with with men. And I had a lot of relationships. Um.
I think all my friends can attest to that. In
my temneyes, I had so many relationships and lots of
sexual partners too. Um. And but it was about a
(16:16):
decade and the I realized that I wasn't doing what
I wanted to do, and I was questioning, what am
I here for? Um? You know, how can I do
something that is truer to myself? And I was living
with a girlfriend at the time, and she said to me, okay, well,
and I was exploring this topic and she's like, Leela,
what do you love talking about the most? I was like,
(16:37):
that's easy. I love talking about sex in a relationship.
It was like just the easiest answer. And she was like, oh,
there you go, that's what you had to do. And
I'm like, what do you mean? And like all the
fierce ship came up, like it's like what does that mean?
I've never even heard of that? Like what does it?
What shape does that form does that take? Like? And
how you make money from doing something like that? And
(16:57):
so these are all of my inquiries and lots of fear.
But also on like in conjunction with the fear, there
was this realization that I had been doing it all along,
Like I was the girl that all my friends would
come to talk about the issue though having in a relationship.
Like I was so oriented towards it that everybody was
(17:18):
just you know, that's that's who I was in my
community of friends. Um and sort of I've kind of
already been doing it. I just need I just needed
to formalize it more. And so that's when I really
studied sexual wellness and sexology. And then I eventually came
to the work of a woman named Dr Patty Brittain.
She's a sexologist and she had created a university for
(17:40):
sex pages. So that was like huge for me. Yeah,
and you know, I knew that I didn't want to
be a therapist. Um. You know, for me, there's uh,
this in what I understood it at the time of
therapy was there was so much talk in therapy and
it was so head and everything I had learned was
(18:02):
going away from the head and into the body. Um so,
and therapy really has its limits to me. It's like there's, uh,
it's kind of through the lens of there's something wrong
and as a therapist, I need to fix you. So
there's that kind of pathologizing and on the other hand,
it's coaching. It's like not hierarchical at all. There's it's
(18:25):
collaborative rather than yet that hierarchical kind of system. And
you know, sex coaching really allows me to bring all
that I've learned through my experience into it. Um and
it Yeah, it's a collaborative, integrative experience where I work
(18:45):
with my clients UM to discover where they are now,
what has shaped where they are now, and where they
want to go in the future. So um, sex coaches
really know anything from like a Ohan to Shabari, and
so you know, we we are like playing in like
(19:05):
really diverse realms. We're so lucky to have all that
experience and to be able to continue to give expert
advice on so many different topics. There's so much to learn.
And our producers have set us up with a little
surprise you know nothing about. And there's someone in our
waiting room for the podcast and the three of us
(19:27):
don't know who it is. And I'm seeing an image
of a hot shirtless um guy. Um right, let's let's
just do like a little pivot and check that out.
(19:51):
I think how it's gonna work. How's it going? Right?
Weary very much? I was, I was, hold, this is
my attire. So we're looking at a very hunky man
here and nothing but a bow tie with who is
actually shirtless? Ladies, he's got cops so good? Yes, so
(20:14):
okay on our zoom, it says Ryan Worlely. So Hi Ryan,
I'm making nice to me too. Thank thanks for having me.
It's such a vulnerable way with your shirt off. Vulnerable, Ryan, No,
this is actually more posen I'm normally wearing. Yeah, I'm
used to it. Oh my goodness, tell us about you?
(20:36):
What are you doing? So? Basically, uh, well, my name
is Royan Worlely, and I was raised in California, in
the Bay Area, and then I moved to Utah. I
was raised Mormon, I am not anymore. I was married
in the Mormon church and then we were married for
doubt three years together for about five or six, and
(21:00):
then got divorced. It was a sexless marriage and it
was very hard on my confidence in my ego and
everything like that. Um, and I actually got into fitness
because I thought, hey, like, if I look good, then
maybe just you want to And that didn't work. But
I read the Love Language Book. I did all that
kind of stuff too to really make it try to work.
(21:21):
And it didn't. But that's okay, And I found my
love for fitness, and then I found out about Chipping Mills.
Was watching a fitness documentary and this guy was talking
about how I don't know if you guys know him,
t J. Hoban, he was a fitness model or he
is a fitness model, and he was a Chippendal back
in the nineties, and I was like, oh, Chippendals, I've
(21:42):
heard of that. And so I literally just applied online,
submitted some pictures and then got an interview or got
like an audition, and then drove I was still living
in Utah, so I drove out um and then ended
up auditioning and got the job. So been been here
in Vegas ever since. Girl, the chip Dales calendar, know
(22:05):
I had it when I probably had your calendar to brook.
So okay, so I want to ask about Chippendales. Okay.
So I know about Chippendale's from movies and okay, yes, yeah, okay.
So I'm thinking, okay, strippers, male strippers, right, right, and
(22:27):
like hot male strippers. So is that right? Began You've
never been in person to a male review. I know
you need to come, so well, we'll sort that out.
We definitely don't call ourselves strippers. Um, we're performers. You know,
we're dancers. It's a fully choreographed show, so literally there's
no like real freestyle anything. And they can dance. These
(22:50):
boys can dance. Cast like Magic Mike. Yeah right, yeah,
but better. Yeah, we're careful. I live, I worked on
Magic my life. They are. They are phenomenal dancers. Their
bodies are terrible because they have to sustain such strong dancing. Um, Like,
(23:12):
some of our guys have actually worked out with them
and they have to take it easy in the gym,
whereas you know, we're we have a six foot and
up requirement too. We have to be at least six
foot and taller. Whereas you know, Magic Mike is a
bunch of you know, professional dancers from l A who's
very well. But you know, we're a good mix. We
(23:33):
we have a good split cast of you know, break
dancers and all that kind of stuff too. So what
are you guys doing now during quarantine Challenge? We just
launched gosh three or four weeks ago. These at home
parties so we have about two guys in each party
and then we do correct so it's through zoom um
(23:55):
and so people we do it free for like the
first responders or like the versus and any like essential workers.
Is pretty much I are you giggling? I was just
you're probably making the same thing I was. I was like,
well that lends a lot of opportunities now and the adaptation,
I'm just like, it blows my mind. I'm very happy
(24:16):
about this. Yeah. So it's it's a fun party. We uh,
you know, we do like a little strip keys dance.
We play a game of like never have I ever?
We do um you know, we guess the produce that's
in our underwear. Um, so we put like some produce
and then everybody has to get some. It's a it's
a half hour and people seriously love it. So it's good. Yeah,
(24:40):
oh that's awesome. So do you get naked? Naked completely?
We show our butts. We are not allowed to show
frontal um in Vegas. There's a lot if you show
frontal and sell alcohol, like you're not allowed to. And
I wouldn't have this job anyways if I did show
my dick. So hey guys, it's engineer Tory and Ryan.
(25:01):
What if we just show the ladies a little bit
of what you guys can do What do you mean
that I want to bring in the others? Oh, let's
do it. I get any virtual show right now. Oh
my god, Jason's our host in a phenomenal answer. You
(25:23):
can back flip, you could do it all and an
amazing singer too. So yeah, how are you guys? We
are so happy to have you guys. Excellent, We're happy
to be here. This is how we like to start
our new trip and Nails at Home experience because obviously
these people have come from all over the world different situations,
(25:45):
being quarantine or work, or being birthdays or whatever it
may be. So we try to get into a little
bit about them as well as give them a little
information about ourselves. So we always like to start this
off with the game of never have I ever. You
have to be honest, and yes, honesty is key, so no, no,
not for me. We like to start fingers in the
(26:08):
air like this. All right, So I'm sue. You know
the rules. If you've done what we ask you put
a figure down and normally ask them to drink if
you put a figure down, and then even if you
haven't done it, we say drink anyway, because the more
you drink. The more the better it may seem that
we actually might be there in the living rooms, in
their bedrooms with you. So let's start this. Let's get crazy.
Let's go. Never have I ever done double penetration? Lelo
(26:35):
definitely put her finger down. I'm the sex coach. Guys,
Come on, I have to. I have to. You have
to experience this wait with her without a partner, like
with with an inanimate object or human being, whichever one suit.
Shoot your will there, m I'm still working on the butt.
(27:03):
Switch it up, all right, Megan, why don't you think? Yeah?
Okay for you guys, let's switch it up for the
chip and deals, all right. Never have I ever gotten
a boner while performing full full bone or what are
we talking? Start Let's start with a chub and then
(27:24):
we'll go to the full do alright. I definitely had
a full bone for like half of a show. Probably
got a lot of kicks. I forgot that story, please please,
So long story short in a nutshell. I went out
(27:44):
the night before, I had like a big night obviously
it's Vegas, and met someone and decided we were gonna
like hook up or whatever. But a little whiskey dick
so definitely took imagine magic blue pill, but it was
maybe it was really early in the morning, three or
four in the mornings. I took it, did the business,
went home, But those side effects last quite a while,
(28:06):
and so I came into work the next evening and
I mean just the blow of the wind and it
was just and I mean the boys would amplify off
of it. They would run basking like a little paddle
the head and it would just go. And so the
whole night I was like, it was like just the
target of ambibition for this phone and running around the
stage and I was like, I'm sorry, guys, I'm just
(28:27):
gonna make it away right now. Clearly I have a
log in my pants. But enjoying the show. Oh, it
was like it's a periwinkled like Skinny Taylor like suits
from sticks here in Las Vegas. I mean you can
see the whole thing, like there was nothing hidden at
that point. So yeah, yes, and it was hilarious. Yeah. Yeah.
(28:52):
Time he had to go out. Every time he had
to go out, we would like hit it or like
do whatever, just get a question and you boys. Never
have I ever had sex with an audience member backstage
not backstage stage, but someone from the shy afterwards, someone
(29:18):
who attended. Correct, I don't know one guy that has
does it happen? Let's give the ladies to the hope
than depu. Do you mean I had my first threesome
because of it? Everyone everyone has their own like everyone
has their own things. You know, you never know what's
(29:38):
going to be in the audience at night, So it
just depends on like what audience pops in at night.
And if it's someone that fits your demographic, then meet
him in the bar later if you drink, do you
have your you have your choice of ladies. I'll take
that one. Roll a dexls. You question, I have knowingly
(30:00):
slept with a married woman? No, yes, no married women? Okay,
Ryan naughty, We just got really fine. Why would you
do that? Um? Yeah, she she was hot, hot, hot,
(30:21):
unhappy and ye perfect combo there, I think have that conversation.
We've actually even had guys um come with their wives
trying to get one of us to sleep with their wife,
like we had. That happened to very often. Well that
would truly really we're going to get into one another
(30:49):
one of her episodes as we define all of the
terms out there that people don't know. I had to
look that one up, actually, which one could, gotcha? So
it's a husband is trying to lend their wives to
one of the performers sexually did because the husband want
to watch. Usually yeah, I've never been asked. I'm kind
(31:10):
of offended, but um, yeah, I'm good. Okay. Never Never
have I ever had someone else watched me having sex actively,
like not just hiding. Oh definitely, definitely. There was one
time there was not did it turn you on? More? No?
(31:34):
I wannestly it was a little awkward for me. I
think if I was attracted to the other person, I
probably would be, you know, in my sense I was.
I was like, oh, that's kind of cool, all right,
what else you got? What else you gotta give it
to us? Never have I ever experienced annual pleasure I
(31:56):
I got I got my buttholeles one time and I
was not a fan, but surveying the other chip and
it was like most of them like it, and I
was like, oh no, not for me. Sometimes people swing
birthday So never no, never have I ever um experienced
pleasure from sex toys? O good question. Hey, Jason, and
(32:18):
we have a winner Jason has no fingers. So much fun. Guys.
Thank you guys. You get the chance. If you guys
want to see any of these beautiful shirtless men like
Ryan and your living room, check out Chip and Deal
(32:40):
dot com. You know. The whole time, I felt like
I was cheating on Channing. I was like, this isn't
right for me. I didn't know what to say when
he sit I was guessing earlier today and I was like,
(33:03):
all right, I think it's either because since we had
the hint the Bachelorette hint, I was like, all right,
is there a bachelourette from the show or is it
a stripper? Yeah, I haven't like not, I just I
didn't know what to say. Was you show up on
our screen and it's hard to it's hard to leave
that that still goes on. I mean that seems like
I haven't. I was like in my twenties. I think
(33:24):
I was. I was felling younger when I saw my
nail with you. That was fun though they were it
was a lot of guys. Yeah, it's fun thing to
do with a group of girlfriends. It's de finding like
you want to like have a night out and just
have that kind of experience. I think it's great. And
what some something to look forward to is that field
trip to Vegas that we're all going to take. I know,
(33:45):
I know, hey, like I would like looking for you.
Since the subject of um sex twice came up, I
had a really interesting conversation with my girlfriend the other day,
so I wanted to get your take on it, both
of you. UM, you know, we we we've been talking
a lot about female sex toys and the subject of
male sex toys doesn't come up very often. And I
(34:09):
am understanding, you know, just statistically that male sex toys
are a big seller. And my girlfriend UM got one
in a gag bag and proposed it to her partner
and it was the first time experience and he was
open but quite weirded out. And I started thinking about it.
I've actually never had an experience with a male partner
(34:30):
with a male sex toy either, and UM, at the
end of the suggestion, it ended up not happening because
our partner was quite uncomfortable and it wasn't a deal
though for anal penetration. It was actually a I like
the way she described it, sort of like a rubble
rubber vagina for you know, yeah, penetrated penetrative pleasure. And
(34:54):
I just wanted to kind of get your take on that.
And I'm curious if we even know how many many
men are open to experiencing that and if that's something
that's exciting to introduce, or how you feel about it.
I've never done a great question. Yeah you Megan, I
mean that seems um, I have it, And you know,
I don't know. I don't I talked to my girlfriends
(35:16):
about sex toys, but um and with themselves alone or
with a partner, But I don't know that I've necessarily
had a lot of conversations surrounding sex toys, uh get
with being used to get pleasure out of the mail.
So I'm interested to see what your take is on this, Leila. Yeah,
I mean, okay there. First of all, I think for
(35:40):
a lot of especially straight heterosexual male men, that there
is a stigma around um sex toys and maybe needing
that um, needing that desiring that. It's like I think
a lot of men that I've I've been with and
a lot of my coaching clients, they're just really satisfied
(36:02):
with the actual real thing, Like they don't need extra
like bells and whistles. It's kind of it's pretty simple
for them. Um. But then there's a whole group of
other people where the idea of using sex shows is
really exciting and fun and interesting, but there's no real
rhyme or reason for it. I just know that a
lot of heterosexual men tend to shy away from from
(36:25):
using sex toys. And do you think they use it
on their own? No? Alright, I know some men absolutely
that explore and I think a lot of men who
haven't found partners or who use porn a lot sometimes
use them actually, you know, and they don't speak about it.
(36:47):
So there is that that shame factor where it is
just remains hidden. Um. So we're not we're not hearing
about it. Um. But yeah, I think And also sexuality
for a lot of people isn't something that they that
they get adventurous with. Even so sex toys doesn't even
really play a factor. Very differently in the gay community,
(37:07):
where there is an open exploration of what is possible
sexually and finding new ways of cleasuring oneself and each other,
and so there's this abdoption of using various tools for that. Um.
So you know there, I mean, I'm speaking super generally, UM,
I haven't experienced using sex toys a lot with men
(37:29):
like cockerings, yes, but not UM. What is explaining with
you know? With UM? Yeah, I haven't. I haven't known
a lot of men to to want that. But God,
I think you know. I'm all about sexual explorations, so
I'm like just bringing as many different tools and things
you can play with as possible. Yeah, I mean, I
(37:50):
was curious because I've never experienced anything like that, and
I get the resistance from the from the male perspective,
but I'm just curious. Should we do email question? Listen? Yeah,
I think we have time for one good one and
Africa if you don't mind. One I found very interesting.
We have a handful here, but the one that I'm
super interested to hear about, UM is from Moira. Her
(38:13):
name is Moira. It's Morris. Morris says. I'm fifty two.
I've been in menopause for three years. Started bioidentical hormones immediately,
took a little bit to get the right mix. I
started with the new doctor last year in June who
monitors my hormones, and I feel great. My question, did
you guys is the partner I had mentioned my clip
is very large. Now it's a small penis and I
(38:34):
have no discomfort. However, I've searched the internet and as
my doctor if it's normal to have your clitterist grow
on bioademic, bioidentical hormones, and she said no, I'm not
complaining as I have great pleasure and can orgasm easily. However,
I'm just wondering why is there no WINFO and where
do I go for thanks? Oh yeah, Lela. So you know,
(38:58):
the bioidentical home moans are technically classed as a dietary supplement,
and this is as far as I know, so please
tell me if I'm wrong. But UM, from what I
understand is that their class is a dietary supplement, so
they're not required to be tested for safety UM. And
they don't have to be evaluated for side effects. So
if there are side effects, UM, you don't have to
(39:20):
notify the f d A UM. So if this woman,
I'm assuming that she's on testosterone UM. And when you know,
when you increase test like, testosterone is essentially what enlarges
and develops the penis, So in a will a woman
then you can develop virilization, which is UM. Male characteristics,
(39:45):
so that could come about as like extra hair or
chest hair or enlarged cletteress um. So it's interesting that
you're What I would say to this woman is you
really have to when you're doing biodenical hormones UM for menopause.
And I'm sure can attest to this. It's really important
that you work closely with your doctor and you monitor
(40:09):
your dosage, how much you're having, how frequently, and to
monitor like how your body is responding because this is
so individual. I don't think everybody who takes bioidentical hormones
body responds the way that yours is UM, so maybe
that's why it's not talked about. What I'm really happy
to hear from you, though, is that there isn't there's
no shame around it, and you're talking about it, and
(40:30):
I think that is one of the hindrances of why
we don't hear more about it is people just aren't
discussing it. So I think that's you know, I had
a conversation about this UM with Dr Chris Assandra, who
we had on on a previous episode, So I would
recommend revisiting that episode because he really breaks down all
things in that world and the use of testosterone, and
it absolutely as a characteristic. I don't think it is
(40:52):
a negative um change at all. There is increased blood
flow and the quitterist does change, not always, but it
does for some women, which stimulates a more intense orgasm.
So things change. You're a bit moisture. Um, you could
have an enlarged clitteris and have some of the other
side effects that you mentioned as well that would be
less de virable, like facial hair and at me and whatnot.
(41:15):
So you have to, you know, like the list said,
work closely. But um, if you're not uncomfortable about that,
I would see that to be a great opportunity for
a greater pleasure. Yeah, I think I look around with
a little more blood flow, and if it's undesired, go
and see your doctor and change the dosage. You know,
like it's but you have to. I love like Brooks
(41:38):
relationship with the doctor. They work really closely together, and
I think you need to really be able to trust
your practitioner and be able to lean into that. So
make someone with the right one, Like, it doesn't feel
good to me that your doctor said no when it's
likely that there being comments about that. Yeah, I had
the discussion very early on the Sassandra, and I want
(41:59):
to add to because we've talked about this in length,
really feeling comfortable with the way that your own body looks,
and I think that is a reaction that a lot
of women might have that it might not feel feminine
or pretty and the change might be a bit uncomfortable.
So it's really important to have that conversation with your partner,
especially if it allows you to experience great pleasure is
(42:21):
to find your own confidence and comfort, um in your
ever changing body, which which happens all the time. So um, yeah,
I'd be a bit concerned too that that was never
brought up because I even know that doctor. Yeah, and
if you search on internet, you can find that people
are experiencing that. M hmm. Thanks guys. Okay, um, well
(42:45):
that was fine. What an exciting surprise we had. We
have to learn about Lela, have some shippindale surprise us
for a little bachelorette kind of zoom action, right, you know,
before we say goodbye, can I ask you one more question, Leila,
just to sort of wrap up. You know, what what
you do and your expertise for someone that's looking to
(43:07):
work with UM. Someone possibly you or someone else in
your field, and wants to get a deeper understanding or
develop UM greater intimacy in their own relationships. How do
they go about that and find someone and and find
the right fit and well, you know what would you recommend? Yeah,
the right fit is definitely the UM the path forward.
(43:31):
Like I I it's really important for me and who
I work with that you know, if you hear my
story like I've shared today and any of that resonates
with you, it's likely that I have something that could
help you deep in your relationship. And it's going to
be different for every every coach that you encounter UM.
You know, some people specialize in like l g b
(43:52):
q I A work or transgender work, or you know,
have gone really really deeply into kink and b DSM
and and you know, dorm relationships and you know, so
it's really finding the right fit UM. They're just so
you know, there's such sort of vast array of sexual
experience and values and belief in human sexuality. So it's
(44:14):
finding the right fit for you. And so there, you know,
you can search online if you're looking, if you are
interested in UM working with me and something I've said
has resonated with with you. Then you know, a lot
of my work that I'm focusing on right now is
that I don't want women to have to go and
spend the time living in an ashram in India like
(44:37):
I did to develop these skills. UM. I really want
what I've learned to to be available for you and
to be digestible and accessible. So you know, I want
to teach people who are moms who don't have enough
time to like even have a shower, let alone, like
(44:58):
go off and let it learn met aitation and and
all of these these skills. So I'm currently working on
a coaching series that really allows women to have ongoing
access to a selection of tools and practices so they
can uncover their own authentic expression and sex and create
the sex lives and intimacy that they're really yearning for.
(45:19):
So it's these tools that allow you to like shift
and explore from the inside out. UM. So rather than
giving like just a bunch of UM mechanical techniques UM
or mechanics and techniques, these like tools really allow you
to integrate into your everyday life, so it's not an
extra thing to do UM and so it's just something
(45:41):
you can infuse into everything you do, so you can
can become more free, more uncensored, unedited and embodied. UM
and all of that resides within you. So in coaching,
were we seek what are you? What are you looking
to achieve? And this is a pathway forward and so yeah,
that's what I work on. So if anybody is interested
(46:02):
in working with me or and doing that kind of work,
you can go over to my website and reserve your
spots for the coaching series and UM all you can
go to my website is loving Lela dot com l
I L A U, or you could go to Instagram
and click through in the bi bio. So it's again
loving at loving Lela is my handle UM and Leela
(46:22):
I think. I think. So when I first learned about
UM sex Coaching and I I was, my initial reaction was, oh,
kind of taboo kind of reaction. You know, I'm just
a regular girl from the Red West. And Um, after
getting to know you and understanding what it is, it's
it's so much. It's not scary, it's so beautiful and
(46:45):
it's such a gift and you're so talented and what
you share and how you help others grow and learn.
And I listened to some of my friends who struggle
in their relationships, and I've asked if they've gotten counseling,
and they'll say yes or no, But really, what are
they're concerned about is the intimacy. They'll say, they'll say, oh, well,
the sex is great. But then at my responses, but
(47:07):
you're you're talking about intimacy, you know, you're talking and
and that's what you do, Leela. You help so many people.
It's not just about sex. It's about intimacy and sex,
and it's all one. And so I encourage every area
of your life. You know, it's about channeling instinct and
that true emotion and that authentic intimate, intimate connection with oneself,
(47:30):
and so then you can go about sharing that connection
with other people in sex or like anything that you do,
anything that you create. You know, I encourage anybody who's
who is just whose interest is is Pacay just a
little bit to look La and check her out and
just read your read her bio, look at her website,
and then you know, take the next step. She's amazing
(47:52):
and she's You're such a gift to us. We're so
lucky to have you and hearing your story. It never
gets old. It's it's so good. And we're just going
to continue to have these car versations because it's really
about educating ourselves and um, you know, bringing up thought
provoking topics and you know sometimes they're light and funny
and humorous and sexy and uncomfortable and just an absolute
learning opportunity. But you know, it was really funny. We
(48:13):
we um um off the podcast. You know, the three
of us had a great conversation the other day and
we're always cracking up about how different we all are
and um, you know, the knowledge base that we bring
to these conversations I think is um it's just you know,
it's it's it's such a great learning opportunity. But we
were talking about sex terms the other day, do you remember,
(48:35):
And we were teasing Megan because you didn't know what
peggan was and Leland I did to be completely transparent
and honest, I actually had to look it up a
year ago because I was in a relationship with somebody
who had all these like terms and you know he
was it was a whole other world for you. But
I thought it would be really fun to do an
episode where we can start unpacking UM ways to refer
(48:55):
to different sexual experiences, which will help your searching, It
will help your discovery, It would help you find a
narrative for your own dialogue. But it's also just probably
a good idea at this point in our life to
you know, to educate ourselves in that space. So I
think we should do a fun episode about that. Let's
do that. It sounds like so much fun and so
useful because it really like broadens the scope of possibility
(49:19):
and yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean and and just finding
a voice for for all of those things is it's
going to be really helpful to so many women. Yeah,
it really helped also bridge that like am I normal?
Am I? You know? Broken? When you hear what like
that fast array of human sexuality experience that's out there
(49:41):
and you're like, oh, wow, yeah I have normal something,
maybe you'll be more open minded to figuring out whether
it's for you or not, whether you like it or not,
or establishing boundaries where something like that might be completely
off the table for you. And you know, that's what
I hope that people start to define UM through these conversations,
(50:01):
is what they what they want and how they can
tap into their own personal desires, what's okay and what's
not okay, and to find confidence and and um really
painting that picture for themselves and their partners. You know that. Well, lady,
such a great day, so much fun to have some
(50:23):
boys on the screen. But I know, I'm great to
see both of you guys. And if anyone wants to
share any listener questions that we could get to on
the show, please messages on Instagram at instimant Knowledge podcast
or you can email us. You can email at i
K at I heart media dot com. That's all right,
(50:46):
we'll see you and we'll hear you next week. Have
a great, wak great. Subscribe to Intimate Knowledge on I
R Radio or wherever you listen to podcasts.
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