Abby Lee Miller

‘Dance Moms,’ on the surface it’s a simple title with years of success. But behind it all, is years of drama...and Abby joins Bethenny to spill it all. From signing her life away, to scandal, to jail time, you won’t believe what was going on over all those years.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
So I hesitated to have Abby Lee Miller on because
of what I was reading about her. Honestly, I didn't
know much about the show, and I read a lot
about her, and I hesitated to have her on. I
know she's a fan, and she's messaged me, and I
want to be kind and I always want to have
someone in that I will be fair too. But when

(00:33):
you read that someone was incarcerated and about racism claims
and bankruptcy, fraud and things like that and calling, you know,
calling Taylor Swift sort of like a name about a physicality,
I'm going to ask her the question. So I wanted
to be fair, And because there's a medical situation involved,
I think that that really was going to raise awareness

(00:54):
for other people with medical conditions or cautionary tales, or
for preventative health care for cancer. So I've been conflicted
about it, but I hope that the takeaway is positive
and helpful. Hi, how are you good?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
How are you?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
I'm good? You messaged me on Instagram and we spoke
a while back, very briefly. Yes, and where are you?

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I am currently in Orlando, Florida. I'm flying to LA
back today tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, you live in La, and that's where your dance
academy is.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I live in La. My studio is there. It's really
actually a store that is okay. So very briefly, I
had a ten thousand square foot studio. It was twenty
nine grand a month before I turned the light on
for rent, and it was gorgeous. I spent about half
a million building it out, beautiful, stunning, state of the art,

(01:59):
and then which the networks should have paid half of
just throwing them out out there, because you know all
about the networks paying for stuff. And I went to prison,
and my friends and people at work for me had
my lease was up, so there's no way we could
bring in that kind of money without me there. So
they moved quickly across the street just the retail store.

(02:22):
Because my store did really well. It was gorgeous, pink
glitter floor, the whole bit, and they moved it across
the street to just save it. And so then after
a while people kept asking for private lessons and choreography
and blah blah blah. So they we put the dance
floor in the mirrors, in the bars in the back

(02:43):
of it, so it's more like a little botique studio.
Kids come from Australia, they come from Germany, and they
get a solo choreograph and they go on their way.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
And you were a child dancer. You've been dancing your
whole life.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yes, since I was three. But I wasn't a star.
I wasn't My mother never kept me. My mother wasn't
She didn't want me at the studio day and night.
I wasn't a studio brat. I wasn't in the front,
in the middle of every number.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
My mom was a good businesswoman, and I really didn't
give her credit for that.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
And how did you get into this whole business and
the show? And how did they find you? And when
was there?

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay, they didn't find me. Okay. First of all, I
at thirteen years old, got a flyer in the mail
at my house. My mom did, and it in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,
where I was born and raised in Pittsburgh in the suburbs,
about twenty minutes out of the city. Okay. So I

(03:44):
my dad worked at the railroad in conjunction with the
steel mills. He was a yard master for the railroad.
So I mean he had an office job, you know, eventually,
but it was a good job, really good job. And
my mother had seven studios in Miami, Florida, and she
didn't want she the reason she left and moved to
Pittsburgh to marry my dad is she didn't want to

(04:05):
walk out on her pension, hit him to walk out
on his pension and his benefits and all that, because
her dad did that for Westinghouse and walked out and
they had nothing. So she moved back to Pittsburgh. Hated
it every minute of her life, not the marriage, the city.
And then she, I mean her kids were dancing at

(04:26):
the fontaine Bleue with the rat Pack in Elvis Presley.
When the band took a break, my mother's girls performed
got it. So I was in Pittsburgh. I was doing
my once a week dancing school. I was a girl scout,
I was I took ice skating and roller skating, and
I played the clarinet. I was on the swim team.

(04:47):
I did everything and nothing nothing well, So I uh,
it was one. It was that era where you did
your kid did everything right. And so I got this
flyer in the mail and it said dance competition. And
that's the first time you ever saw those two words together.
This is in like nineteen eighty right. So I got

(05:10):
three girlfriends and I said, Mom, I want to do this,
and she said, what you want to do a solo? Wait? Wait,
you're going to pay money for people to watch you dance? No,
you should get paid. This is the wrong way, And
so I said, place pace please. So I took three girlfriends.

(05:32):
I taught them a routine. I got the costumes, so
I did the whole thing myself. We won. I got
the twelve inch plastic trophy in my hand, and I
knew that that's what I was put on this earth
to do.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
So you started competing like you started being in that world.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
That's what God will put me here for.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Got it, Okay?

Speaker 2 (05:52):
I did? So. Then that fall I asked my mom
if I could start a competition team at the studio
and she said yes. So I was fourteen. The kids
were between eight and eleven, so I was teaching. I
had to do it for free because I was only fourteen.
And that grew to one hundred and forty eight competition kids.

(06:12):
Four hundred kids in the studio.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
At fourteen years old.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
At fourteen years old, no, over the years till I
was thirty, that grew.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
And were you making good money doing that?

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, I was working for my mom and dad, and
then at twenty two, I took over the business and
I built my own building. So at twenty two with nothing, owning, nothing,
living at home, well I lived at school, but whatever
I did a I borrowed six hundred thousand dollars at
nine and three quarter percent interest and built my own building.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
So you were entrepreneurial young, okay. And then so then
how did the show? Who created the show? And how
did you collide with the show.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
So I'm at a dance competition in Vegas and I
bumped been to an old friend, a kid. His name
is John Carella. He was a dancer, a competition dancer,
and my kids used to compete, not really against him,
but like a little younger. So he was giving up

(07:15):
his title of team Mister Dance of America and my
student was winning it. Okay, the next year, so I knew,
I'm my new family. YadA, YadA, YadA. He's from Phoenix, Arizona.
He's in Vegas at a competition. I'm like, what the
hell are you doing here? He's a professional dancer at
this point, doing like Janet Jackson's World tour sling deans.

(07:35):
I mean, he's very successful, very masculine, good looking guy. Okay,
so we step all night talking, reminiscing, blah blah blah.
I the next day, I'm leaving the hotel. He's coming in.
I said where. He's like, where are you going? I said,
I'm going down to another hotel to see my little ones.

(07:56):
He's like, what do you mean your kids are here.
They're doing amazing, they're going to win the whole thing.
I said, yeah, but my bad kids are somewhere else.
So I said, come with me. We jumped in the taxi,
went down the street to the Dolly Dinkle thing, walk
in and there's Maddie doing her solo and this kid
doing a solo and that kid doing a solo. And

(08:16):
I look over at him and his shaw is like this.
I said, what's wrong? Said Abby? These kids are adorable.
These kids should be on television. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let me take you outside to meet their mothers. And
there they were at the pool outside the ballroom, drunk,
broke and bitching about every single thing that was going on. Wow,

(08:41):
they wanted to be up at the fancy convention, at
the big hotel. Their kids were young. It was their
first time out of Pittsburgh competing.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
You're saying they weren't at the level. So they were
like and they wanted to be got it. So that's
like the stage mom dance mom thing. Oh it's okay,
So how do you get the show? He knows people,
he connects show.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
We get in the car and he said, I have
an idea and it could be really good. He spent
the next entire year working on a format.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow. Oh so he was the executive producer.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well he gets credit for that, yes, the creator.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yes, you got no creative credit, nothing.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
But the phone call started, how do you do this?
How do you do that? Because he wasn't a dancer.
He was a professional dancer.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right, No, you were producing the show. That's fair. You
were producing the show.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Like, he didn't understand how do the moms? Well, how
do you get a solo? Well? How do you?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
And I'm like John, so hold on, So where is
it going to be aired? Then? So he puts together
So I don't want to be too wealthy. I just
want to really understand what happened.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
So he puts together a concept he and I so, yeah,
with all the questions. Okay, right, and then he takes
it to his friend who's the casting director for The
Bachelor and the Bachelorette. Okay, his best friend, and she says, John,
I think you have something here, but I hate kids.
This is not for me. Let me introduce you to
this guy named Brian's insign. Okay, is does kids birthday

(10:03):
parties and stuff like that. Okay, you know TV shows
about birthday parties. So he introduced them. They formed a
partnership and they started taking it around to production companies
and they got the door shut, door shut, door shut.
They walked into Collins Avenue and Collins Avenue said, we'll
give you three thousand dollars to shoot a sissle. Okay,

(10:24):
so they did, and then they got my recital footage,
my competition footage, my kids head shots, my everything that
was on my computer in the bedroom at home, and.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Then it got picked up.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Then they put the sizzle together, and then eleven networks
were interested. And this is a bitting warm for you.
It came down to two Bravo and Lifetime.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh interesting, okay.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
That could be Andy Cummon, I know, and in Lifetime
bought the show. Unfortunately, Lifetime bought the show.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
It's very Lifetime. It's very Lifetime, so you guys do
the show, and well.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
No, they so the Lifetime within ten minutes of buying
the Shadow flipped the whole thing to a Housewives chew.
It wasn't dance moms, and it wasn't about moms. The
moms were a part of it, but it was about
the dancing and the kids, and they nixed that whole thing.
Eighty percent the moms, ten percent, the kids, ten percent dance.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I don't know that much about this world. I want
to get into it because I am friends with Sia
and I know about Maddie, and I didn't know. I
didn't know that much about this. I started doing research
about it and reading about you, and you had messaged me,
but I really didn't know that much. You've made You've
commented on my Instagram, et cetera. And to be honest
with you, when I read about you, I was like,

(11:58):
whoa like your bio is or what people write about
you is very polarizing like and coming from a polarizing person,
I was like, ooh, so let's get into some of that.
So there's a lot of stuff here and I'm you're
a guest, and so I'm not, by any stretch of
the imagination, a person who like gotchas or ambushes. But
once I started to like do a deep dive and
read about you, I was like, okay, we have we

(12:20):
have like a sort of an issue with the girls
not wanting you to be on a reunion, and I'm
going to go through, but then we can break it
down an issue with the girls not wanting you to
be on a reunion, and then we have a racism
claim and you've been incarcerated and like and sadly you
have cancer now or you're recovering.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
I am cancer free.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Oh thank god. Okay, wow, I'm sorry. I'm very sorry.
So there's a lot here that has to kind of
be addressed because it's like what is written and you seem,
you know, lovely, and you seem, you know, like it
seems like you're good at what you do and your
passion about it, and you've been successful. I don't know
if you ultimately have been successful or if all this

(13:04):
cost you all your money, because it sounds like it
costs you a lot of money. And I don't know,
did you run circ did you go in circles and
you ended up making no money during the entire six perio.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
The show did. Is what the show did and the
moms did is ruin my business. They destroyed my business
just because like it was a six week docuseries. That's
what it started out as. So I thought, for six weeks,
I can handle this in my studio. They were using
my studio for free, lifetime, using my studio for free,

(13:34):
no gas bill, light built nothing.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
But why didn't you demand that if you had a
hit show?

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well I did later, but when it first started nothing.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, in the beginning, I got paid seven thousand dollars
for the whole season. But that's that's what. That's what
it is. Though it's nothing. They're not gonna that's that's
that's not like I'm not crying for you about that,
Like that's what The kids.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Were not homeschooled. The kids were not homeschooled. Shooting at
four o'clock and that was the problem. That's what destroyed
my business. Why because my business was my business. If
we would have wrapped at four o'clock, I would have
a thriving business in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Right, But why didn't But again again, why didn't you
not do that, Like I'm saying, you thought there was
an upside to it, that you were willing to sacrifice
that I.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Did, But then I demanded after the six weeks got
pushed to a season.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
I was like saying, the first six weeks was the sizzle,
the first first six weeks the first season of it
when you got.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Picked up, supposed to be a docu series? Yes, for six.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Weekss and how many episodes? Was that supposed to be? Six?

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Right? So that's one time though? But didn't you do
it over and over? So like what so six weeks
is six weeks? But why I'm saying, next year you
have a hit show, don't you renegotiate? Like what, I
don't get it.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
I signed a four year contract with a four year option,
under duress, with a piece of paper with a pen
in my hand, stuck in my hand, after I repeatedly
said I don't want to sign anything. I don't have
an entertainment attorney. I don't want to see.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Anything you have. You have all that I'm writing saying,
I don't want to sign anything, I don't have an
entertainment attorney.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Probably have it on film, yes.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
So why didn't you use that to like take action.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
I finally got an entertainment attorney and screwed me over
big time. He signed everything.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
And but why didn't you go to another lawyer, like
or somebody who liked I mean, if you had, if
you had, if you had on camera that I don't
want to sign this. I don't want to do that.
But I get that it's hard to make That's one
of the things that's interesting is that it's hard to
force people to like live and work on camera. But
so you're saying you just kept getting picked up and
you couldn't get out. You wanted to get out after

(15:42):
the first and.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Then we got picked up again. I did have an
entertainment attorney that I trusted that had passed the bar
and ended up signing my life away and a contract
that the other we're taping this, this isn't live right. No,
you hit on a couple of things. Okay. First of all,

(16:06):
the mothers refused to homeschool the kids absolutely refused. Nowadays,
and you're a New Yorker, that's a different thing. In Pittsburgh,
we have Pennsylvania public education, which is excellent. Our school
taxes are insane. We played property tax and school taxes.
They're nuts. Okay, it's outrageous, but we have really good

(16:28):
public education. Nobody was homeschooled after the pandemic.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Oh yeah, but okay, so they don't want to homeschool
their kids. That's their rights. You are right to not
do it if they don't want to. I just don't
get like, okay, right.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Six weeks went to thirteen weeks. It was no new thing.
After six weeks it went from six weeks to thirteen weeks.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
They said, we want to extend it, we want to
do more episodes.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, without anybody signing anything. The moms didn't sign anything new.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
I don't and I know that because in the beginning
I was we were shooting without contracts years ago, sort
of weird good faith, and I remember that's a story
I've never told, But yes, I was shooting the Housewives
and hadn't signed a contract yet. Exactly later, yeah, exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
That's interesting to think about my mom and dad giving
me their life savings to build my building. I borrow
all this money, right, and then I'm in bankruptcy because
it's a lot of things. But it was two thousand
and eight, the crash, I had rental, I had stuff
in Florida that was on ajuticable rate, mortga jaize blah
blah blah ah this crop.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
So my dad put you under financial dress to do
the show. You made bad decisions, and you didn't have
the right legal advice because it's in the beginning when
you can't afford good legal advice, which people have experienced.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
So you make clear bankruptcy on December tenth April tenth,
four months later the show started in my studio.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Why did you I declared bankruptcy before the show started.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Before the show started, before you.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Started filming the show four months Well, then that means
you're not making good financial decisions in your life anyway, right,
Oh okay, so that's accountability. You're saying you're it.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Wasn't good financial decisions, but that my dad used to
run the books. I'm an only child, no excuse, but
my dad.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay, I gotta say something because we spoke before, and
it says in here that you said, like so you
believe you shouldn't have gone to jail. It gives a
little bit overall that it's like the mom's fault, that
it's like you shouldn't have gone to jail. That it's
like the bankruptcy, is that your fault? Like there's a
little bit of like non accountability. So is none of
this your fault? I don't I'm reading on paper and
it could all be a lie. I'm just saying, is

(18:38):
none of this your voote? You were incarcerated, you went
to jail, and it's not your fault, like you didn't
do anything wrong? Like and you didn't do it?

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Oh, I take things wrong. I made bad decisions, things wrong.
Because you're just reading like this and not here and there.
You don't know me. We're not sitting in my house.
You're I mean the government.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Could you seem lovely? Sorry?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
I come on in. How can I help you? What
do you want? I'll tell everything you want to know.
I'm an open book, no problem. So that's not what happened. Uh,
it was an absolute witch hunt. While I was in bankruptcy.
The show started.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
The judge's wife was a super fan, and he was
seeing ads on the TV about me doing a television
show and thought, she has all this money. Where is
all this money?

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Not realizing you're not really getting pad because people people
into money going out, but they don't just throw you
in jail based on a TV commercial.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
No I did, I did something wrong. I went to prison, okay,
because make sure you get this right, okay, because I
was maybe going to walk away from a house in Florida,
and the judge stated this was her closing thing, that

(19:54):
Chase Bank would have never negotiated my rate so low
if they knew I was on a television show.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
But what about the Switzerland, the Swiss money or something
I read about like that, it's from Australia. That was
my right, sorry Australia.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Now was Melissa. Melissa was all in charge of all
the money. I taught the dance classes, they sold the merchandise.
Oh we're gonna bring this money home, and this is
what we're gonna do. Everybody's gonna take ten thousand, alvi,
this is what we're gonna do. Why in God's name
I was paying six hundred and fifty thousand.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Oh like they were claiming. They were saying bankruptcy fraud,
and that you filed for bankruptcy, but you really had
money because you were on the show. And they said that, okay,
that there's a Florida mortgage.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Before the show ever started.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
I'm literally, I'm just reading off this paper. I don't
it just as an article. I'm not, I'm not. I
don't have anything on my own. I didn't know anything
about I literally did not know you were in jail.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Oh that's why I'm in That's why I'm in a
wheelchair because in prison I was punished and taking all
my medication cold turkey.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Well that sounds like a lawsuit too. Why haven't you
taken legal action about that?

Speaker 2 (21:00):
I did. I hired an attorney.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
And what happened to that attorney trusted him? So that's
the second attorney you trusted that, Okay?

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yes, and his name was Brian Claypole, Okay. And I
hired him and went through the process expert witnesses this
and that, on paying pay and pay and paying, sending
him a check for this, send him a check for that,
and then all of a sudden, I get an email
back I can't work on your case anymore. Lo and

(21:29):
behold he missed the firing date.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
So so all right, So you're on the successful show
and all of these famous people come out of it,
Jojo Siwa, Maddie Ziegler, and there's there, there are there's
a conflict between you and some of them, and then
conflict between them within each other, and they do this
reunion experience and they don't They'll only do it if
you're not there. What's the problem. What's the conflict with

(21:54):
you and them as adults now? Because they were kids?

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Then you can't face me because they know they would
never be where they are today if it wasn't for
the show. There's two little girls named Brooken Page Highland
who I was very close to, much closer emotionally and
family wise than any of the other kids. Their mother

(22:17):
was in my original competition team when I was fourteen
years old, their mother, and she stayed at my studio.
Then she left, got married, had kids, brought them to
my studio at two years old, and stayed until the
show started. So my point is, if this was so
toxic for all these kids, why did they come back
at three and four and five, and six and seven

(22:40):
and eighty.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
In my mind, well, well that's a separate conversation because
I was reading about that, and people have come at
Maddie saying that you know or why would you go back?
But I think the mothers, I think are putting the
mothers at the stage moms that are putting the kids.
They want the kids to be famous, and they're putting
the kids through the system. But that doesn't mean that
the relationship with the kids in you was healthy or positive.

(23:02):
I don't know. I'm just going by what I'm what
I'm hearing.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Kids, the kids came back. There were other studios in town.
Mine was the best. There were other studios in telling.
There's colleges in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Oh, I don't doubt who doubt that your talented? You've
created a successful A lot of these successful talent. It
seems like, are you youre.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Don't read what you don't read that Lifetime didn't want
anyone to know. They wanted me to be this down
and out po dunk, heavy set dance teacher screaming at
these little kids because that made good TV. Nobody talks
about the kids that I've had in drum roll please
twenty five Broadway shows. Wow you read that anywhere?

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Five Broadway shows. I have had kids from Pittsburgh in
that I took that. I drove their asses back and
forth to the auditions, not their parents.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
And by the way, that's what goes on ice skating
and the kids aren't going to be successful. Someone's not
grinding them. So I think that the mistake in your life,
besides like the financial stuff and the lawyers, was to
document this process because I think it's probably not that
pretty making kid making child stars. It doesn't seem like
a pretty process.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
I drove them. I drove those kids to No.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
No, I don't doubt it. I'm saying, I'm saying I
don't think it's a pretty business. Then there's another.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Good times there were I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
No, no, no, I'm just saying I'm talking about not from you.
Just overall there's a conversation and pageants and and ice
skating and our kids, kids beyond this sky. I would
never put my daughter through that kind of any any
of that. I would never put her through that. I
think that sounds like torture and it sounds like a
job as a child like my daughter, it was what.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
It was fun, It was wonderful. And and just let
me say that there's a lot of kids in Pittsburgh
that would have never gotten out of Pittsburgh fair if it.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Was no fair point, fair point, no fit fit, fair point,
and ended up supporting their family.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Perty.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
No, you can't it's not binary, it's not black and white.
I understand that too, I really do. I'm just saying,
my daughter, there.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Were good times and it was fun, and they loved
what they were doing. They loved it.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
They love Okay. So so now Maddie goes on to
be a huge star, and she didn't want to.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
So this little six week docuseries was about the moms, okay,
and suddenly I'm on the show. I was never to
be on the show. I was not on the show
when it started, this six week docuseries. But a mother
came in bitching at me. I called the police, flipped out,
called the police. The police came, took her away, and

(25:32):
they got all that footage. The cameraman. Okay, that got
back to the network. I get you on the show
three or four and said, whoa, who is this woman?

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Right?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Who is this? This is the glue that holds these Oh.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
I get no, no doubt, undeniably, I fully no, I
fully get. I fully get that. There's no I make.
There's no like if you were on the Housewives, you
would be a good housewive. Vermona does not always do
and say popular things at all, and she's been canceled
as a result of it. But she was a good
housewife because she always brought the drama but didn't kill
the party. So I'm saying, I get there's there are
many types, there are villains, there are favorites.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
There.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
I'm not, by no means, am I thinking that your
entire life is boiled down to what was ever on
that camera? By no means. But I ever think that.
I'm not stupid and I'm not a hypocrite. Yeah, no,
I get it.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
So the kids, Okay, you're going to the kids becoming stars,
not my kids that weren't on the TV show. That
are stars who should be who should be recognized.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Well, this is this is what happened.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, right, but these kids, so all of a sudden,
the network says, we want a new routine every week.
Uh uh, wait a minute. The kids never auditioned to
be on the show. They sat in a chair next
to their mothers and were cute. They never danced. There
was no five six, seven eight dance like a.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Real what you're talking about? Wait, what what do you mean?
The ones that were cast it was a casting situation.
They weren't the real dancers.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
What you're saying yes, when that's the cast the show.
It was an interview. They sat in a chair next
to their mothers and were interviewed.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
It wasn't supposed to be about dancing.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Correct, There was no dance audition okay until season two
three four? Right? Okay, So these particular kids whose mothers
didn't follow the roles in the studio, didn't take pay
their bills on.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Best Television Kids. You're saying they.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Couldn't pick up the dance routines. How are they going
to learn a new routine in a week. We had
them for two days Wednesday and Thursday, two days.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
They weren't They weren't respectful of your best dancers. They
were the best talent, They were the best entertainment.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
The moms were, their moms were. The kids were just cute, okay,
nothing more. They were camera.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Friendly whatever that went on to be big stores.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
But no, but you're saying that it was because they
were just cute. I mean, it's because they were cute
and talent. I mean it was because they were cute
and entertaining that they wanted to be big stars. You
said they weren't the best dancers.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
They weren't. Okay, so these kids weren't the best at
picking up the choreography. When you do a solo in
my studio, okay, you started in September, October, November, December,
you start competing in February. You have six months to
learn a dance, one dance six months. Now, we were
learning three dances in two days.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Okay, So what does that mean? Why is that?

Speaker 3 (28:27):
So?

Speaker 2 (28:28):
That was the conflict. That's what created the conflict, week
after week after week?

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Is got it?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yes, Page and Brooke could not pick up to save
their lives like that just not swift. Maybe it's school
with the book, fine, but not in the dance studio. Okay.
Nia was always late coming because the Hally was a
principal in his private She schooled downtown and had to
get her there. Okay. The Chloe wasn't allowed to miss

(28:58):
a day of school. Mattie's mother took her out of school,
brought her to the studio during the day, no cameras,
no producers. She learned the numbers out of time, throwing
that out there.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's great.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Worked with acting friend who's an acting coach from Carnegie
Mellon University, throwing that out.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
There, got it all right. So this experience was amazing
for these girls and they are massive stars. And Mattie
Ziegler's gone into amazing things and she, as her right,
didn't want to go back to the reunion. I know
people had a problem with that. I've read about that,
but like she's allowed to be Beyonce and they can
be Destiny's child. I mean, she decided what she wanted
to decide, right and whatever.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
If one of the other kids moms would have got
them out of school and brought them early, maybe they
would have been the star and learned all the numbers
ahead of time. Well, we needed a kid that could
be in the front and be in the middle and
know those numbers.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
What do you think about Jojo Siwa? And like her
recent you know Maya, she's.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Like Jojo came from a spinoff show that I did,
Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition. It was a competition show I
did in La in season two and season three of
Dance Moms. So I just to give you the prison
the jail thing, which we didn't go to. So I
shot thirteen episodes of Dance Moms plus two specials. I

(30:18):
shot another season of Dance Moms. We shut two a year,
another thirteen episodes and two specials, so that's thirty shows.
Then I flew to LA and I shot thirteen episodes
forty three weeks out of fifty two weeks a year.
I was on TV insane, that's what I do and

(30:39):
my business is failing. No, it wasn't. It was about
the business stuff. Okay. So now, now Jojo comes from
that show, right, they love her. He doesn't win it,
but she's from that show. So they find her on
Abby's Ultimate. I cut her. She was like the fourth
one to go whatever, and they bring her on to

(31:02):
Dance Moms.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
She was adorable. She's a pretty little girl. She was spunky,
she could pick up pretty well, and she came into
it knowing she was going to have to do a
new dance every week. She had work on that picking up. Okay. So,
now did I think she was a good fit for
the group. No, because she wasn't a group dancer. She

(31:30):
wanted to be the star. She was a soloist. You
do her solo. It's phenomenal in the group, always off
a little bit, okay, okay, and I'm looking for kids.
Bethany I'm looking for students that are all the same height,
that are all the same level, that are all right.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
She ended up making a meal out of it. She
ended up being very successful in groups together.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
And I also want to make something perfectly clear for
all of your viewers listeners. None of the kids had
a contract, act none. The contracts were never affirmed through
the court. When you do, when you because when you
make a deal with the child, you have to affirm

(32:14):
their documents through court as they're separate like an adult. Right,
The moms had a contract. The kids were coming along.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
For the ride's house too. That's housewives, okay, But here
the kids are a focal point way more, not until
they're eighteen sixty three.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I twisted that show around to make it about the kids.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Of course, Well then you're the one who's responsible for
them working versus being mad.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
I was not privy to this until years later when
we were in LA. Had no clue, right, so I
thought everything was up in the up and up. My
weird world is Broadway in New York, not LA and
film and television, you know. I took kids out there
twenty five thirty years ago, and they didn't want to
see them because they were from Pittsburgh and they could
never get there time for an audition. They could never

(33:01):
fly out that quick.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Whatever have you followed their careers? Are you following Jojo?

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Now?

Speaker 1 (33:06):
How like? JoJo's got this new you know, everyone's talking
about her and she's a little.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
More talked to her. I talked to her on the
phone yesterday.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Oh you did, and you have you have a good relationship?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
And do you love what she's doing? I mean she's
she's entitled to like have changed her style, like she's
People are giving her a lot of criticism about changing
and she's coming out with a different type of you
know product.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
You know what. I'm not the boss of her anymore.
I'm not in charge of the choreography. I'm not in
charge of her costume anything.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Why didn't she push for you to be on that
show together? If you guys have a good relationship now
or it just evolved it got better?

Speaker 2 (33:39):
No, no, no, it's always been fine.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
She knows.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
She'll tell you she wouldn't be where she is today.
She might be famous, it might be a star, but
it would have been on some like Disney show or
Nickelodeon show.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
It wouldn't have been, and you feel like she's grateful. Yes, great,
that's okay. So do you take any accountability for all
of this mess that I just read on paper? Do
you take any responsibility like I besides like blaming the
lawyers and blaming the networks and blaming the kids and
blaming the moms, Like, do you personally take any responsibility
for away fame?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
I don't blame any of the kids. You asked me
why they didn't want me in the reunion? Paige sued
me for five million dollars obviously got thrown out of
court immediately. How does she look at me again knowing?

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Okay, I didn't even know that. Yeah, okay, okay, got it?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Okay. So yeah, and they know I wasn't going to
work for that network again anyway. Number three, and at
the network, the producer Brian Stinson begged each one of
the girls to call me on the phone to FaceTime me,
and then he went after Jojo, you have to face
the time out, but you have to FaceTime out. But
they were trying to get me on camera on the show.

(34:46):
Oh okay, my old makeup artist and hairdresser was there
doing hair and makeup and screamed from the back room
when she heard it for the twentieth time that day, said,
will you a better payer in a parent's be if
you're going a twitter on camera? And then it stopped.
Got it.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
That's a loyal person.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
And then they shot the new show there's a new
reboot of Dance Bumps that I'm not on. They shot
that and asked me to be a judge at the
big national fake Final competition that they planned to come
and judge it. The producer Ryan Sinton called me so
that they could get my face there on camera to
use to promote the show like I was on it

(35:28):
and live people for the first six weeks of that show,
telling people it was the Dance BOMs Ruby and telling
them that Abby Lee Miller was there to get kids
there to compete against the show kids.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
So you've had an interesting ride, but you're still on
the ride, and you're still teaching dance and you have
new shows. So you're you are a cat with nine lives.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
It sounds like I'm very unlucky or I'm very lucky,
depends on what day it is.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Well, so you are cancer free, and did you go
through you went through what did you did you do?
Readly what you want to tell? You have your doctor
on now?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah? Sure, I had ten rounds of chemo.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Wow did you change your hair?

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (36:23):
I lost my life.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
You thought you were going to die?

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Blood pressure twenty three over seventeen. He'll talk about it, okay.
By the way, not one kid, not one kid reached
out except Jojo and some of the little ones that
were in the next season. Nobody came to that hospital.
Nobody called, not one mother. Jill was the only mom

(36:50):
that sent Flowers to the hospital.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Hi doctor, Hi doctor, how are you sir?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Hi?

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Good morning guys? Are you guys or maybe good roping
your time? I know where you guys are. But hello.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
So you've been working with Abby through her whole treatment.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yes, she looks. She looks amazing. I don't re recognize her.
She looks amazing.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
What did you think the prognosis was going to be
in the beginning?

Speaker 3 (37:16):
I was very you know, I remember like it was
literally like it was yesterday. And I mean she she
knows it too. She remembers like I told her we're
going in now. I said, I don't know. We don't
have the correct scan. Something is wrong, something doesn't make sense.
Maybe it's a bad infection. When we got in there,
it was crazy her like, I would say, her thoracic spine,

(37:39):
which is like your mid back where you have twelve
vertebrates on the bottom of the neck, about like twelve
segments in her spine, which is unheard of. Everything was
just this mass crushing her sminal cord like it's just
it was like completing gold. Like she went from walking
completely normal, everything totally fine within forty eight hours.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
What what were the symptoms?

Speaker 2 (38:03):
First I thought I had a sinus infection. Now, Bethany,
this is I get out of prison. I'm driven. Everybody
else's parents picked them up from prison, They go to lunch,
they take them to the halfway house. It's all. Where
was the prison Victorvale, California, out in the desert.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
On a one to ten, ten being torture and one
being enjoyable. What was prison like?

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Seven eight?

Speaker 1 (38:27):
It was really shitty.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Some of it the women I met and some of
the I read one hundred and fifty books and I
lost one hundred and twenty pounds.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Wow, did you meet a lot of it? Did you
meet anybody you're still friends with?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Absolutely? Yes, you has good friends, yes, and they're out,
wonderful friends. Yes, and they're out okay, yeah, and one
of them works with me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh wow. So she came out of prison and she
came she went How soon after did.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
She go to you?

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Well? No, So what happened was she was having issues, right,
she was having some issues, and the prison chip basically
blowing your off and pain. Yeah. So yeah, that's actually
a big problem. She was having issues, some thiray issues.
They kept blowing your off, and then she was having
neck pain. They kept saying, oh, you're doing this on purpose,

(39:14):
you know, kind of.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Like, oh, wow, I've never heard of that. That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Well, you know sometimes I know sometimes unfortunately people who
go into these prison or halfway houses, I've seen like
they want to fake something exactly, I've seen it. So
but I think, no matter what, you got to investigate,
you can just blow people off. You know.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
That's saying that's crazy. That's a legal matter too. I
mean it's amazing. Wow. Okay, so she was having issues.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
There, yes, So they kept blowing your off and then
she came to me excruciating neck pain. I remember it
was on a Friday, and I'm telling her. You know,
we got to get MRI right now, and she couldn't
get the MRI because she was in too much pain.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Yeah, she couldn't lay down. I said, okay, we're gonna
admit you. That was Friday. Okay, we're gonna admit you
on Friday. So we admitted her. We admitted her on Friday,
and then we were trying to get the MRI, but
she couldn't lay down because she needed to be sedation,
you know, and they were not providing the sedation. So
then basically there's another test called.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
This is a media out of prison.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
She came to you, yes, about like a couple of
weeks out something like that. Okay, So then I remember
we went admitted her to the hospital trying to get
the MRI, but I wanted to get d MRI with sedation.
And it's a whole like, it's a big deal to
do MRI with sedation. You gotta, it's you got to
set up anesthesia, you gotta. It's just it's just a

(40:42):
lot of work, and a lot of hospitals may not
be equipped to do it, you know, especially over the weekends.
So I mean over the she was fine. So then
on Sunday, she starts while we're waiting for this MRI.
On Sunday, she starts kind of a little bit, uh,
feeling something in her extremities. And then by Monday morning,

(41:02):
literally overnight, she starts losing function, like out of I
mean she went from walking everything Friday and Saturday to
like Monday morning started.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
That's horrify, that's horrifying.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, So Dan I was like, we got to do
this test called the ct milogram. Ct monogram is a
pretty invasive test, and you know it's not It wasn't
the idea, but we had to have a choice. So
we thought about transferring her to main seaters, and but
we did a ct monogram. When the results came back,
I remember the radiologists like came running to me. He's

(41:37):
like it was like, at don't know, nine o'clock at night,
eight o'clock, Like I don't know if something is wrong,
like the whole spine like this all this segment, this
whole segment is blocked. Like the guys, so I'm thinking
this is infection. Oh my god. I said, we don't
have time because if we did not take care to surgery,
she did not have time like to go get MRI
at another facility she would have been. I mean she was.

(42:00):
Her blood pressure was going down and we're going to
lose her. I was like, we're going searchery now.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Much pressure was twenty three over seventeen.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, I mean, I'm like goose bombs right now, like
talking about it. It is little emotional. We I remember
it's midnight. I called my wife, I'm not coming home tonight.
We got to take it to surgery. We're going in
and we're up and I'm horrifying. I've never seen anything
like this. I mean, for a a Burkett lymphoma, this

(42:30):
cancer to.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Grow what's it called? Because it's what's it called? Burkett
Burkett lymphoma, Burkey.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Today is the anniversary.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
You're saying it is rare, this thing Burkett lymphoma is rare,
or what.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
She had rare, rare. It's usually seen in young African
American kids.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Okay, wow. So you had to then do twelve rounds
of what is it? Twelve rounds twelve weeks?

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Have ten So I was impatient for seven days. Chemotherapy
dripping spinal top lumbar injection where they go up the
bottom of your tailbone into your brain where it goes
around your brain.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
God, who was supporting you? Who was there family or
friends or who was with you? You were alone every
step of the way. That makeup and hair artist.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Uh, a friend from a couple of friends from Pittsburgh
and a friend from LA that I met at my
dance studio. Not one of the moms.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Wow, okay, So you were in the hospital for only
seven days?

Speaker 2 (43:40):
No, no, no, seven days in now, I was transferred
on a gurney laying down to California Rehabilitation Institute where
I underwent physical therapy, occupational therapy, hand therapy. I was
paralyzed from the neck down at this point.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Oh my god, will you were you? What is your
mental state? Your emotional state?

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Well, I remember in the hospital they told me that.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
For a dancer to be paralyzed alone, that you know
that concept of choreographer. Yeah, so tell me again. Do
you remember them telling you.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I remember them telling me that. They tell me the
story that I kept waking up saying, oh well, thank god,
it's not cancer. Oh well, just don't tell me it's cancer.
And they kept waking me up telling me it was cancer.
And I would go back to sleep and wake up
saying no because my mom. Yeah, my mom died phoning
cancer and my dad died of geo cancer. So and

(44:36):
I was only fifty eight. I never spent a night
or fifty two.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
I never s it's cancer genetic like that. If your
parents have two different types of cancer, then you were
likely or it has nothing to do with it. It's it's, it's,
it's it's unrelated.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
We have to doctor Piro.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
I don't know, you know, I mean, no, no, no.
I think there is a genetic component to everything. But
I believe also very importantly, we have the ability to
modify our genes through what we do in our lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, well I endo that.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
So a lot of people think you're basically cursed by
your genes and genetic some degree, that's true, but I
do believe that now we know with what's called functional medicine,
and I believe through your environment and your lifestyle, you
have the ability to modify modify your genes.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
You're saying through just eating well and exercise, the things
you're taking or what are you saying exactly all of
the above.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
There are a lot of Look, it's very multi factor
god health. We know through god health and a very
holistic approach. We have the ability to help modify our
genes and also don't exercise. And another key factor in
all of this is controlling the stress in our environments
and also other things around us. Like how much like

(45:57):
metal toxicity? Like the air you breed in where you are,
is there molding? There is there some heavy metal around
a lot of people are ingesting things around them. They're
not even awhere happening.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Well, how are you obsessed everywhere you are? Because how
do you live a life without thinking about everything?

Speaker 3 (46:13):
No? No, that's the point I just said. The stress
is also the key thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
So no, I'm saying the stress of thinking about every
time you walk into a room as this room have
mold or metals or No, you don't want.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
To like I don't. I don't want to let people
don't to think like that about it. You know, you
just want to be vigilant. You know, you just want
to be vigilant. You know you control what you can't control, right,
you know, so you call your nutrition, you can control
your exercise, and you know you control your emotions with
the stress where you meditate whatever it is. Yeah, you
do all of that stuff. I think you're going to
be okay, I think you're going to be able to

(46:47):
modify your genes. And for example, you don't.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
You don't move next to said that, right, right, right, No,
I don't know why it's reminding me that. But Lisa
Werenna got in trouble for saying something about like stress
causes cancer or something and like the or and like
she got in actual trouble by the cancer Society saying
that's not scientifically true.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
I don't think it's not trying to finish that.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
I'm just curious because I remember hearing her say that,
which I've heard people say, and then she got like
backlash for saying that.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Here's the deal. I went from the prison to the
halfway house. Okay, I was there for one week and
this happened. But I went before I saw doctor Belamed.
I went to six doctors in ten days, six.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
And you had been going and saying in prison that
you were having pain.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yes, go home, honey and take it easy. You'll be fine.
Then one doctor at an urgent care said the first
one I went to, because I thought I had a
signence in fact that I need a zepak. I went
to the thing and she knew me from I had
been there before, and she said, I think you're in
a thyroid storm because you were taken off your thyroid

(48:08):
medication and met Foreman for diabetes old turkey off.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Of everyone had a different and then this chet and
then this doctor is the only person who took you seriously, Yes,
so amazing.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
But they had my blood work, she said, I've never
seen blood results like this. It's nuts. Well, then why
didn't you put me in an ambulance into the hospital
from the urgent carry idiot? I might not be in
a wheelchair if this would have happened.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Is this this is not reversible? You're in a wheelchair forever?

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Now? Wow? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (48:36):
No?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
What what are you in?

Speaker 3 (48:37):
What?

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Why are you in a wheelchair?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Specifically, because the the spinal cord was damaged and where
it was damaged is most of it came back and
some of it didn't. Like I don't feel like if
you put a hot pan, frying pan on my thighs,
I wouldn't feel.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
So, doctor, can this be haired? Can this be rehabilitated?

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I think there's a possibility, because there is now we know,
like literally I just learned about it. In Mayo Clinic,
they have a patience on the stem cell who was
spinal cord injury, paralyzed from neck down for seven years,
is walking now. Wow, Okay, I just literally I was
going to actually, I know we're coming on, so I

(49:24):
was saving it, you know, to tell in Mayo clinic
right now they're doing the stem cell. I mean there,
it's remarkable. So I think, I mean, for someone who
has function quite a bit of function left, I think
there's a good chance she can make good recovery. And
the other issue I had is that I think her
spinal cord was trying to make full recovery. But I
think they in my opinion, I'm sorry, but I think

(49:46):
they went overkilled with the chemo they did. She was
no cancer, she had no cancer, and I remember they
kept giving me her extra round, extra round.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I'm like, I'm like, yeah, doctor Piro, Doctor Piro, who's
my oncologist. He now, he snuck me out of one
of the days I was going from chemo to physical rehab.
He made me stop at his place to do a
full pet scan on me to see where the can.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
That's such an interesting thing I've never yet just like
selling past the point of yes, you did were cancer
free and you were still doing that.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
I never heard either, well and not one cell of cancer,
and yet I underwent seven more because.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Oh my seven more? Wow, oh my god, the hot shot. No,
that is point. I mean, that's like unnecessary poison in
your body, I would assume, right, And.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Again that's a doctor not listening to the patient.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Wow are you How is your emotional state now? How
is your mental emotional state now? Your Moraley?

Speaker 2 (50:48):
I live alone. I went from not being able to
lift a fork up to living alone. I wish I
could have full time care to travel with me and everything,
but that money's on a lot of attorneys in Pittsburgh.
And I think that. God, I think I lived okay,
So I want to live good.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
You seem positive, like you do. You have to have
a good attitude. You seem to have a good attitude.
I don't know how long ago was.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Did you leave prison in twenty and eighteen?

Speaker 1 (51:22):
So you haven't had a normal life quote unquote, not
that your life before was normal, but you haven't had
a normal physical life in six years.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yes, and this is the anniversary today of what today
of the surgery? Wow?

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Okay, well it sounds like it can only get better
from here if you are healthy and emotionally healthy and
mentally healthy and also taking care of yourself. So yes,
I what a shocking story. Wow, and doctor, thank you
so much for coming on. And Abby, thank you for
sharing the story. Wow, that's like a good car cautionary

(52:00):
tale for people to listen to their bodies.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Yes, women, you know I always say that women, you know,
they take care of their husbands, they take care of
their kids, they take care of their own parents. They
don't take care of themselves.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
So that's a cautionary tale about all these things about
the chemo, about what happened by now listening to your
body and people not listening to you. And good on
you to keep going to different doctors.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
You know.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
They let me out of a hospital and eleven hours
I was back in an ambulance with the same symptoms.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
That's a lawsuit right then, feeling alone because you live alone? Wow. Yes, well, Abby,
it was so nice to meet you, and thank you
so much for being open and having this conversation.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
I there's so much more. There's so much more about
the kids in the DOVA and the things. I'm sure
that you're friends with Cia. It was my dream to
meet Sia. That never happened. But see us saw the show.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
She was a fan of the show.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
She watched the kids, and she reached out on social media.
And they would have never even seen it if it
wasn't for the social media girl that we hire that
saw it and caught it. And I put my job
on the line. I quit. You kept saying why didn't
you quit, Why don you quit? I quit the show
because they wouldn't let Mattie go. I quit. I said,
you're done, get out of my studio. We're done if

(53:13):
you don't let this kid go do this video.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Oh that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Thank you for many reasons. I quit many times. For
the kids. It was always on behalf of the children.
They should remember that, but they were little. I guess
who knows.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Well, it seems like Jojo does and she's on a trajectory. Well. Amazing.
Thank you so much, and thank you doctor. Have a
great day much.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Thank you guys, take care.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Thank you. Bethany