August 13, 2020 • 56 mins
Katie sits down with actress and author, Gabrielle Union. Gabrielle opens up about being diagnosed with Adenomyosis late in life, her struggles to conceive, and her family’s beautiful and inspiring surrogacy journey. The moms also talk imposter syndrome, raising Kaavia James aka ‘shady baby,’ and the unpleasant side effects of IVF.
Crib Notes:
Adenomyosis - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/adenomyosis/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20369143
Welcome to the Party - by Gabrielle Union and Illustrated by Ashley Evans
We're Going to Need More Wine -Stories That Are Funny, Complicated, and True - by Gabrielle Union
In the FLO: Unlock Your Hormonal Advantage - by Alisa Vitti
WomanCode: Perfect Your Cycle, Amplify Your Fertility, Supercharge Your Sex Drive, and Become a Power Source - by Alisa Vitti
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi guys, and welcome
back to Katie's Crib. Today. I am talking to one
of the moms that I've known for a long time,
(00:20):
and she inspires me so, so, so so much. I
can't wait to share all of her stories and brilliance
and genius with you. We've got Gabrielle Union on the
podcast today. UM, if you guys follow Gabrielle, and if
you don't, you should. She has been very open about
her surrogacy and we were really lucky in this episode
that she goes even deeper into her fertility struggles, into
(00:43):
her experience of surrogacy and the impact that Kavia has
made on her life. And I think it's going to
speak to so many of you guys. Um. There's a
few things to note about this week's episode, and that's
that we actually recorded it like two days before the shutdown,
so keep that in mind. Also, she talks about her book,
Welcome to the Party, which is now out and if
you don't have it, go get it. It's wonderful. She
(01:06):
also brings up in the interview that surrogacy is not
legal in all states, and since the recording of this episode,
the state of New York has made gestational surrogacy legal. Finally. Okay, guys,
let's get to the interview. She is an actor, She
is a producer. She is an activist. She is a
New York Times best selling author. She is my woman
(01:29):
crush every day and day. Please welcome the one, the
only Gabrielle Union. And I feel like there needs to
be sound that's like, that's just me, yes, But that's
when it sounds like should follow. You are such an
inspiration to me as a mom, I feel like to
so many women out there. Um, you recently celebrated your daughter,
(01:51):
Covey James first birthday. I saw on Instagram it was
Whiz themed. That was incredible. Congratulations on making it to one.
By the way, Like, come on, don't you feel like
you need to like pat yourself on the back and
just be like, oh my god, I just I'm happy
that I survived bathtime. That's it. I had no idea
what battles I would be facing every day that no
(02:13):
one would ever like count as battles except other mothers. Yeah,
So have you always wanted to be a mom Like no, no, no,
if you were one of those little girls that like
wished for that, No, no, not at all. I didn't
really have dolls like that, like I made my mom
get me a cabbage patch at all, but only because
like to be like a part of the frenzy. I
(02:33):
wanted my mom to be trampled um, you know at
the local department store a cabbue patch all. What changed,
you know what? I think becoming a stepmother and really
finding being a caregiver incredibly rewarding. Again, these like these
little battles that unless you're doing it, they don't feel
(02:54):
like much, but just feeling such such such a sense
of accomplishment, you know, after you know, studying with kids
or or practicing with them, and you watch them thrive,
and you watch them be happy, and you you you
survived the first breakup or you survived the first heartache
or or whatever, because you came into being their stepmom
when they were already I mean they weren't babies anymore, right, No,
(03:15):
they were, so I feel like to me, that scares
a ship out of me. I mean, for you to
come in dealing with kids who are already sort of
who they are, and they're dealing with like big emotional
things like oh my god. So you come to this
decision you're like, I've really enjoyed being a stepmom. Yeah,
and it's like, well, maybe maybe were the other women
in your life becoming moms, Like were they like was it?
(03:36):
Was it something that you were like, everyone's doing that
and I'm sort of interested or were close friends of
your doing it? And I was like, looks tough. It
looks exactly like it is. It looks tough. Um. Yeah,
Like and you know, when you're around enough, you're not
just seeing the social media moments that that parents tend
(03:57):
to post, watching the full on meltdowns, you're watching illness.
You're watching like how it tests marriages and relationships. You're saying,
you're saying what it really is? Um. But for us
in our household, it just felt like maybe we could
do this. And so it started off with maybe we
(04:18):
could do this, to let's go for it, and then
each time it felt like we were getting closer, but
the carrot kept moving, you know, with our fertility journey.
But we're like, no, we're doing this, no one, you know,
So it starts to become this thing that it's like, wait,
we're working really hard for a goal and now it's
becoming a parent that we really want this. I kind
(04:40):
of had a similar situation because I had a miscarrot.
Like the first time I got pregnant, I was like,
I think I want to do this. I think, but
I'm also absolutely terrified. And then it wasn't until I
got pregnant and lost that pregnancy where I was like,
oh no, like I really wanted this, Like this is
oh God, Now I feel like I really really, really
really want and I didn't know. Also, you want to
(05:02):
conquer your body totally, like if you're used to you
work hard. Then X happened and it's like, okay, so
I've worked hard and is your birthday October twenty. I'm
a Scorpio. Are my favorite women on the planet by
the way, full on scorpio. So I was like, I'm
not gonna lose, right, So you're it's all kind of
mixed in right at this desire to expand the family,
(05:26):
but also I'm not losing I'm working too hard. I'm
not going to lose it this And my body was
like was it like paint? Like so you got diagnosed
with I'm going to pronounce this incorrectly, but you've told
me there's multiple ways your pronounces. I've heard it pronounced
demosis and I say adamomosis, adam myosis. Yes, are are
(05:47):
IVF doctor you know pronounces it slightly different. Um. But
I pronounced it adnomosis. But it's endometriosis of the muscle.
How did you know you had that? It was? I
went undiagnosed for through multiple pole rounds of IVF with
different leading doctors in the field around the country. I
went to dark Are you kidding you? Went through multiple
(06:08):
rounds of I VF and no one was like this
is the issue. Not until the last doctor, Dr Kelly,
back in California. UM that you know, first first ultrasound,
she was like, oh, so you have ad myosis. And
I was like, oh, what's that and she was like yeah,
she was like it's pretty pronounced. UM. I doubt this
just arrived. I don't know why no one would have
(06:31):
noticed this. This is really you know, because I guess
you can have varying degrees of how bad your case
is it, which is similar in endometriosis as well. But
also I'm reading these statistics that like one in ten
women have adno myosis and that's and they probably don't
(06:51):
know it. They don't know it. And the first and
only person i'd heard address it publicly was Lena Dunham.
So the second I heard you know that word, I
didn't know her. I mean, I know who she is,
but I just d M her and I was like, hey,
I just got this diagnosis. You've been pretty open about
your journey, Like what is like, what is this like?
(07:11):
Can you help connect me to know other women who
never felt a pain or anything? No, it doesn't, I
mean to me, it didn't feel I've had it. Yeah, yeah,
forever long I've had it. And it was a different
experience than Lena's. So then it was like, well, it's
not one thing. It's not one way of of of
manifesting in one's body, and every woman is not going
(07:32):
to experience the same thing. I would have never probably
known had I not been on this fertility journey. So
going back, so when my doctor started at when doctor
Beck started asking me more questions going back to my periods,
um and what my my experience was like with my
periods as a you know, as a younger woman, And
(07:53):
I explained that I ended up getting on the pill,
not for birth control reasons, but because my periods were
lasting like a third of the month and I was
bleeding like I had been shot in the vagina. I
have goose bumps when I hear stuff like this because
I feel like we do a terrible job like just
teaching women. I don't know whose fault that is, but
(08:14):
I'm going to point finger. I mean, I just I
we do a really bad job of knowing our bodies
and knowing when we need to ask for help, Like
because the period, we don't talk about our periods and everything,
so like private and embarrassing and shame is circling all
of these things. And I remember, like when I was
trying to I didn't get a period for six months
after I had a miscarriage because I had a d
(08:36):
n C and it took me a long time to
get regular. So I ended up going to a fertility
acupuncturist who was like teaching me for the first time,
like what my body does every month of when you
would be fertile. Like she's like, well, is your discharge? Yeah, guys,
I said, it discharge like this or like that, and
what's the fluid and where your service? And I was like,
I've never had this conversation with anybody ever, and I
(09:00):
don't know like if we're supposed to be having that
with our daughters or mothers, or like how long is
your period because if it's one third of the month,
like that's too long, or if like you have to
cancel your life because you're in that much pain every
time you get it, like we need to see somebody. Well,
when we use words like the curse, you know, or
or the woman's burden like or whatever, it kind of
it kind of conditions you to think periods equal badd right,
(09:23):
And and to say that, you know, having a period
that's extremely long or extremely heavy isn't normal. We can't
confuse the words you know, not normal with not common. Right,
That's very true. That's very true. Right, So it's actually
quite common to have a regular period, of course, but
using you know, a lot of doctors will say I'm
(09:44):
going to put you on birth control to regulate your period.
But what they're not saying is being on birth control
is the absence of a period. You're not actually having
a period. What you're experiencing is breakthrough breakthrough bleeding due
to taking the bliss sed in the last week, but
if no one spells that out for you, so you
(10:05):
think you're controlling or you're regulating your period and you're
treating or whatever it is what is causing these long
periods or painful periods or heavy periods when you're not.
It's just masking whatever the issue is for however long
you're on birth control right and you might not know
there is something and whether or not you have an
uncommon cycle that can be totally your body doing its thing,
(10:30):
or it might be something in your case that was
something that needed to be more looked at. And especially
when I read these statistics that like it's one intent,
like that's that's normal, guys, turns out like one intent,
like that's not one in five hundreds. That's like a
lot of people are dealing with things and either masking
them with birth control or not seeking help or feeling
embarrassed not to talk about it or something like that.
(10:51):
So Dr Beck, Yeah, Dr Kelly back. Dr Kelly Back,
She's amazed, amazing. She tells you she has this, and
does she say to you, you're not gonna be able
to get pregnant, Like what does she say? No? She
just is honest for the first time that, like, my
road will be extremely challenging, and the only way that
I would be able to physically carry my baby myself
(11:13):
is if I use this drug called lupron. And I
remember Lena Donna mentioned lupron. But what lupron does is
it creates kind of like brittle bones. So like, I
don't know if you guys remember Lena was walking her
dog and I think stepped off the curb and broke
like Baker broke her like ankle or something. And I
live an active lifestyle. The roles I'm playing are very
(11:34):
asical and it only gives you, like I think it's
like a thirty percent chance. So do I run the
risk of causing greater harm to my body for a
thirty percent chance? And she was one of the first
people to really like be honest about surregacy, you know,
and also anomosis, you know, affects your ovarian reserve, so
(11:54):
doing you know if you're if you're going to a
fertility clinic where they're charging you par ound a you know,
if you're going in and no one's diagnosing you correctly,
and what is that per round? It's gun or something
it's expensive. Well it varies from you know, place to place,
but a lot of places will offer older women or
women who have, you know, these conditions that have been
(12:16):
diagnosed rounds to basically bundle, almost like bundling, you know, cycles.
So you you might do um, three round for this price. Yeah,
for this price, because you're not going to get a
ton of eggs. And even if you do get a
ton of eggs, which of those eggs would be viable?
You know, it's just not that many. So but no
one's super clear or honest because that affects your your business,
(12:40):
right um. And she was the first person that was
just honest, so kind of you know. Immediately when she
says surrogacy, I took that as failure. You are a failure.
And so I was like, I think I can do
some lupron. I'm pretty sure I can film being Mary
Jane and and I might be able to break some
bones and okay, you know. And my husband was like, Babe,
(13:05):
I want you. I want you as much as we
want this baby. I want you. Like, but let's let's
pump the brakes and think about this, um and make
a family decision. Um I And it was just like
you know, and so we really do take that on
as women though, like we really feel that failure thing
like pretty hard. But also yeah, no, you're not a woman.
(13:29):
Your body has failed you and you're not You're not
woman enough. You think, what did I do wrong? How
can I fix this? My body has failed me and
I'm basically a nothing. And if there's a chance I'll
take it, I'll quit work, you know, like the thing
that I love to do, Like you will sacrifice all
(13:50):
of those things in order to prove yourself, you know.
Just so yeah, Dwayne, yea and yea you for coming
around to the idea and then going down this surrogacy path,
which this is amazing, Like we haven't spoken to anybody,
I don't think yet on Katie's script. That's how to
start get even though I've had a few friends go
down the journey and it's unbelievable once you wrapped your
(14:14):
head around. Now this is part of my fertility journey,
and this is part of our story to get CoV
Like how did you find a part? Like what did
you do well? You know, as a scorpio, I am
super type A. I'd like to control as much of
any given situation as I can control. So imagine me
(14:34):
having to figure out a who to trust and then
trusting someone for ten months. For ten months, that's not
living in your house that you don't control. You don't
know what they're doing, you know, Um, you don't know
if they are eating a cheetah or a or a
cucumber or like if that would have been your call anyway,
like who knows, or they're doing their prenatal yoga classes.
(14:54):
I mean, whatever the thing is that you're harping on you,
I'm a control freak. Also, that would key me up
at night. So, I mean, luckily we found a surrogate
who had been a surrogate before, who also had her
own children and and a very supportive husband and a
really flexible job. And the thing that let me know
that this was the right was the right woman. We
(15:15):
were reading the same books. You can rest your head
on the pillow knowing that your taste is similar and
your maybe your values or in alignment if you're reading
the same books. Wow, um honey, sure other people forever
reason because I was like, look, she's obviously done this before,
(15:37):
she's she's had healthy babies. I'm not going to micromanage
somebody who's honey, lesson, I got this. But the thing
that gave me peace, and what gives every family piece
is obviously different. For my husband, what gave him peace
was her husband being so supportive of her and them
wanting us to know their whole family right. And for me,
(15:58):
it was that we had similar taste in books, and
I was, like, that means a lot. It's just it's
just one of those weird things. And for me, that
was the thing that allowed me to sleep. And you know,
I also feel like it would be so like I
I'm feeling such a relief by knowing she had done
it before, you know what I mean like that like
she was sort of like, I got this, I know
(16:19):
how it works. Like we're good. How was the forty weeks?
Was can you have open surgency or closer? Like is
it something where like you're texting all the time and
checking in or maybe some people want to keep it
more you know, more like not that personal. Every every
surrogacy journey is different. I've come to learn, like most
people don't say like and our baby like and like
(16:42):
kind of really be more transparent about the whole process
because again, there's so much shame involved with not carrying
you know, your child and the birth journey. There's just
a lot of shame, you know for you know, it's
and it's sad, and it's super unfortunate and it's unnecessary,
which is why we wanted to show people a different
way and that your baby is still going to be
(17:03):
celebrated in your birth journey, is still going to be celebrating,
your family is still going to be celebrated. But yeah,
we had a group chat. So it's me and my husband,
her her husband, and we went we all all four
of us went to all of the doctor's appointments um together.
You know, we might exchange a group text about like
what we're binge watching because she was on bed rest
for a bit in the first trimester when the pregnancy
(17:26):
was a bit in jeopardy due to you know, something
happening with her cervix, and so we were all kind
of binging you know, the same shows. We could have
something to talk about, like she's stuff, you know, like
she's stuck at home and it's like, you know, the
least we can do is have a common interest. Yeah,
but we were we would just stayed connected through the
whole time, and they weren't physically that like far and
(17:48):
and again, like if you're listening in a state where
surrogacy is is outlawed um like like in New York
or in Arizona, and that that kind of thing. Everyone's
surrogacy journey is different. There is no one right way
or wrong way. I think for some families who don't
have as much contact, it's just a heart. It's just
a hard sometimes odd thing to kind of wrap your
(18:10):
brain around. Yes, so everyone kind of copes in different
sitting here thinking like how important it is the work
you do, and that how open you are with this stuff,
and how wonderful it was that Lena was so open
about her endometriosis because you can see the direct line
of help, you know what I mean, Like you reached
out to her and now like people will look to
(18:31):
you for surreg you know, for surgasy support. Like that's
you know, if you've been in the mix of a
surrogacy challenge, I don't know, it's I don't know how
exactly it all happens or who kind of puts the
word out there is like a fertility I feel like
I can say this underground railroad if you will, of
(18:53):
women who are completely connected to doctors, acupuncturist, therapist, other women.
But it's like shrouded in secrecy because again, everyone moves
through this fertility journey differently, and for so many there
is so much shame about your body betraying you, and
you just don't want people to know. But there's this
(19:17):
amazing network of women working low key um to help
you through the process. And once I went through the
process and was vocal about it, I get at least
a few times a week people wanting I know someone
who you make the connections. That's just how I like
(19:39):
the idea of paying it forward, because it's hard and
certain parts of it just freaking suck. Whereas there ever
a time that you were like your biggest fears about
not being able to control the pregnancy in the way
you would have Was there anything that came up that
would like you were so freaked out? Was she when
she was on bed rest? Or was there anything? I
(20:00):
think by that time I had suffered so much loss
you're almost expecting it. You start to just this is
gonna work for the worst case scenario, like, well, this
is one more thing that didn't work, you know, like
the first miss, my first miscarriage was by far the
most traumatizing and just destructive to my soul. It broke
(20:23):
me in a different kind of way. So the ones
that followed after, like they're like, how many do you have?
Like I don't know. I kind of lost track because
it's you're just conditioned to like, I'm going to keep trying,
because that's what that's what winners do. But it didn't
hit like that first one, and and having to call
back all those people and say it's not happening. And
(20:45):
and for me, like I have a real fear of
public humiliation, I mean in any part of my life,
and the humiliation I felt when miscarriage is so common,
but the humiliation I felt having to call those people
who were like literally in tears that we've gotten this
far and and have to call them back and be like,
(21:07):
you know, it's not it's not happening. That was like
like excruciating, excruciating, you really, Like I remember when we
were first pregnant, and I was like taking videos of
when I told people I was pregnant, like my grandparents
and my parents and all this stuff. And I still
have those videos somewhere, and I just told that him.
I was like delete, like I can't because and then
(21:30):
the next time you get pregnant, you're like horrified and
you're like, I'm not telling anyone until they're in college
because I'm yeah, like you, that first month of surrogacy,
you were just like, well, I've already I mean, this
has been fucking impossible. It wasn't until the fifth month
where we were like, okay, at month five, I should
probably tell my job. Right month five, I suppose we
(21:50):
can tell people. We didn't that, so I told my job,
and thank god, I mean I have part of being
the boss is you know, like and and Jessica being
so clear when she took the job, like I am
breast fading. This is what it is like, I'm a mom.
My kids are going to be around like they were
like perfect and we're not nothing. No part of us
(22:11):
being active mothers or you know other people in our
production being active parents slows us down. You know what
I mean, we are probably the most efficient production beyonause
we value parenthood. I was like, oh, okay, okay, cool.
You know, so at what point can should we tell
the network spectrum or whoever? And I was like, I guess, no,
(22:33):
I don't know because I've never gotten this far. And
then as it started getting closer to the do date,
I started freaking out, like, oh, this is actually happening.
Like I've been so prepared for loss. I was not
ready for like Cobb to be a thing. And I
was like, when she was born, it was like, tell
(22:54):
me about that, did you? Were you all in the
hospital together? Yeah? Yeah, So it was It's like a
weird out of body experience, but for me it kind
of lasted for months and months and months, like because
it's a it's happening outside of your body, so you
don't have that physical change happening. That kind of helps
to sort of, I guess, prepare you that something's going
(23:14):
to leave your body at something you're kind of just
sort of like watching it, and then there she is
and it's like, oh my god, you're overjoyed and this
is like oh wow. But like imposter syndrome hits quick,
like HiT's. I mean, for me, it hits like how
do I even announce this? Are they going to say
(23:36):
I'm super Hollywood and I didn't want to mess up
my body? Are they going to say, like you waited
too long as they did you have people again like
when you started to announce, So did you not announce
to the world that you were using a surrogate during
the surrogacy? I can't remember. So it wasn't until she
was there. No, I mean and and because like we're
you know, we're we're cool with with with Kim Kardashian
(23:56):
and watching her surrogate be hunted, um, which you know,
puts the baby, and we yeah, not again, that was
we only needed the one time to see that happening.
We're like, yeah, I know, um, but we were very
clear we as a family that we were going to
be very transparent once she arrived safely that she came
via surrogate and what our journey looked like. And thankfully
(24:16):
Oprah was like I would like to be a part
of telling this story, you know, like we want to
try to help as many people as possible, and so
we you know, we were able to do the two
part or Super Soul Sunday with with Oprah. But even that,
it was like I'm holding Cobb and I'm like they're
gonna come take her, like they're going to figure out
that Even then, like a fraud like that I didn't
(24:37):
do it, like I didn't, I didn't birth her, like
I don't know what I'm doing, like I'm not ready,
like I don't. I'm not prepared, even though I'm nutty
about preparation. Had you already done the baby? Like was
her room ready? That was like that? Like did you
have a shower? Did you like was all that stuff
or you were like I don't want any of that
stuff because I'm superstitious, like people feel you, we're nervous
(25:00):
about having a shower because then it's out there. It
could be out there, and you can't trust every person
to just keep that what they think is sharing good
news is like putting our curguit in danger. So we
had a shower, if you will. After she was born,
it was welcome to the party, CoV um, you know,
a celebration of life, like you know, introducing her to
(25:21):
everybody beautiful aside from like personally, once people knew you
were going about the surregacy route, and of course there's
all those stupid horrible Hollywood like she just didn't want
to blah blah blah. What about in your personal life,
(25:44):
were there anybody that was like friends of yours or
work people who were like judgmental or no. I mean,
I mean, I think partly because people had been on
this long year's long journey and had, like most of
them had probably suggested probably around year two, like you
know there's other ways, you know what I mean that
(26:05):
they had been through the phone calls of miscarriages. So
everyone was just so happy. Even before I was diagnosed correctly,
they were like, you know, there's another way, like you
don't have to keep doing this, And I was like, sabotage,
you know what I mean, to win, you know, like
totally yeah. But no, they were so so so understanding.
(26:26):
My my father was and I to this day still
confused how she looks like us and not like the surrogate. Yeah,
she looks like you guys like you, But he just
doesn't understand that that our surrogate. And with different surrogacy stories,
(26:49):
it might be a donor sperm or a donor egg
or you know, like it could be any combination of things.
Each person's is different every and everyone's is the right
way for them. But my dad does not get that
there is no biological connection to the circuit. They're like,
it's it's it's crazy she's she's so brown, like is
(27:11):
it because her parents are black? Like Dad, like, I don't.
It's just so it's a crazy j of like oh,
this is like possible. And he'll say things like deal,
do you let her see her kid? And we're like
are you being wilfully ignorant or just to hurt me?
Or like are you legit still confused about how this works? Wow? Um,
(27:34):
when she was born, did you feel an immediate connection?
Because I did not to my son. I for weeks.
I was like, this is a stranger in my house
who has disrupted everything. Did you feel did you take
one look at her? And no? Did you take one
look at her? And it was completely complicated? Was it? No?
I mean not with the her of it all, Like
(27:56):
I think when she immediately came out, I was like,
she looks like my husband, like like from Jump and
so I'm not to sound like a weird sap, but
like I'm so in love with my husband. Her looking
like him was just like oh dope, like yeah, like
like this is great. Yeah, Like so it was like
(28:17):
I love him, I love her Like it was more
of like I didn't. I never even had like dolls,
like I never babysat, Like I was more inclined to
most someone's lawn or walk their dogs than and we
always had animals. This is nothing like when people like, oh,
it's the same as a puppic. No, No, it's actually not.
I can stick my dogs in a kennel for a minute,
you know, I can't do that with a kid. So
(28:39):
I just felt like I'm so ill equipped, like I'm
not knowledgeable enough, Like I don't know what the hell
is there a test I'm supposed to take, Like they're
just going to drop her off and no one's coming
back to check, Like this is insane. Why are why
is anyone trusting his dude? We're good with babies. I
know you became a stepmom later, and he started off
as a team m um, so he was a teen parent.
(29:02):
So he's been a parent more than half his life.
So he's, oh yeah, he's like a vet, you know,
like he's the old ground. I would love to see that,
Like what a role reversal of him teaching you, Like
that's not how you do a good swaddle, you know.
I mean like he's he's old hat, like has done this,
you know, so many times, And because he was not
(29:24):
super wealthy, you know, teen parent, you know, like him
and his ex wife, you know, when they were teen parents.
You know, he was an athlete on scholarship, so they
were on you know, they used social services, they were
on with you know, like that there. It was a
different experience, but he figured it out. And he had
to be out of necessity because I couldn't afford daycare,
(29:44):
hands on like school practice home she you know, so
he had to learn as at a very young age.
So yeah, he was super And You're like, I don't
I didn't take this time us this I can. I
don't know what to do well. And he took this
you know, paternity leave in the middle of an NBA season,
(30:05):
which had not happened. I'm you know, I love him. Yeah,
like during his his farewell tour, you know, he took
this two weeks and and then he was gone. And
now I'm like alone because he's back in Miami. We're
in l A because I'm filming in l A. And
I'm like, I'm going and luckily we have a ton
(30:27):
of you know, of help in our village, all like
descended like locusts, which is a whole different thing that
parents don't really talk about like trying to manage a newborn,
and also extended family's expectations about what they need in
your time of need, like it's that's whole, a whole
different the worst, Like you need to know we have
like in your you know, people have these like plans
(30:48):
of what it's going to look like. And I'm always like, well,
who are your who are who's your village that's actually
helpful and like washes dishes, and who's the village that
sits on the couch and now you're making them meals
and taking care of your kid because that those people
you don't want around and offering NonStop commentary about everything
you're doing wrong, like no, thank you? How is your
(31:10):
work life balance shift, identity crisis? Did you have one? Did?
How do we feel? It's all? Do you feel better now?
Was it a shock at first? Like it's the same
when people ask about balance. I was like, I'm always
like the balance is no balance is understanding. There is
no balance. There just isn't. There's just there's this It's
(31:31):
it's physically impossible. I have too many things going on
in any given day. Something is going to give. She's like, no,
the day I'm an amazing mom is the day I'm
a failure as a writer. And the day I'm at
like Sandro's last day on Gray's Anatomy, is the day
that I'm not showing up to my daughter's piano recital
and I'm fucking failing as a mom. So like, you
(31:53):
make choices and maybe it evens out at an end
of a certain year, but like who knows, well, yeah, no,
I mean and and the mom guilt right is real,
But it's also like because I'd heard it, you know,
like I've been around mothers and and reading and seeing
in media and you know, and entertainment. The mom guilt.
(32:13):
Mom get mom guilt. I felt guilty for not feeling guilty.
And I was like, well what happens when a mom
doesn't feel guilty? But other moms are talking about mom guilt?
And I'm like I feel but yeah, you're like, I
feel fucking great? Great where the spot? Yeah went to
the gym. My friend Liz Asked wrote this book that
was like the stay at work Mom. She's the mom
that's like staying in her car because she's delivering a script.
(32:36):
She's a very fancy comedy writer and she's like, I
think I'll just make it for the last two minutes
before they go to bed, and she loves it. She's
like it takes all. Also, you might this is a
long journey, and I feel like there might be certain
My husband like say, like there might be certain years
you just prefer than others, Like you might just not
(32:57):
be like so into the baby ship. You might be
really into seven year old. You might be really down
for the twelve year old. Like you just don't know,
and that can change week to week, that can change
year to year. But this is like a long asshole
that we are on. And it's okay to feel guilt
Monday zero Tuesday, Like it doesn't have to be your thing.
(33:18):
It doesn't have to be part of your identity. Is
where you're always like, oh my god, you know, I
feel so guilty because then people are like, oh, that's
the kind of mom she is, and you kind of
established this identity that you You're like, well, it doesn't
always apply. Like it's okay to like be whoever you
are in any given moment. And also really like working
and I'm like sweating, like I'm in the like I'm
(33:40):
on the stand, You're beautiful and it's a glow. I
can tell you guys, all right, now get really sweat
she glows. Now. How was the introduction? Like did your
blended family know the insides and outs of the surrogacy
situation or where were we not filling everyone in because
they were kids and who knows that built up of
(34:00):
friends and friends and I don't know how everyone knew
everyone knew and your immediate family and how was the
introduction like this is the way our family looks now?
Has everyone been on board? Well? I think because it's
been such a long journey for our family and the
people who took that first miscarriage the hardest after me
(34:26):
were the kids, Like when you get so excited about
something and then it's the idea of something you were
excited about is not happening, and then explaining the concept
of miscarriage and like they take it as like dead
you know what I mean in wrapping your brain around
(34:47):
that with children who have never really experienced like a
grandparent dying or you know, anyone sort of close to
them in that kind of way dying, So explaining all
of that was brutal for them. So we wanted them
to be a part of this of this journey. We
told them after the first trimester and really started sharing
(35:08):
more of the pictures after the fifth month, so sonograms things,
so in case they slipped up and wanted to share
with somebody, at least we were kind of past a certain,
of course point, but they didn't. Our kids are freaking dope,
and they're so family and I know there's differences between
(35:29):
what we put out there and not and I do
think you're one of the most incredible follows, not only
in its honesty and your openness, but I just feel
like your blended family is very supportive of each other
and looks it just is like can I get in that?
Like I'm just like this is the best, Like your
parties looks like, of course everything is about a partying,
(35:51):
but it just seems like everyone's really supportive of each other,
and like, what else do you guys want? Like, come on, everybody,
get on in our house. Like our kids only know
like their most conscious memories are with a famous father.
And then when I join in, it's like it's too
fer And they see because they have phones, they have
(36:12):
friends who can't wait to tell them all the negative stuff,
so they see the attacks. They see all the negative,
any negative, they're like, maybe they missed it. Nope, they
didn't miss it. They'll go down a rabbit hole about
you know, us, and they'll have these like random questions like,
oh baby, you know everything on a blog isn't actually real?
Those kind of things. So they've seen all the negative,
(36:33):
and then when they got to a certain age, they
started adults taking shots at them, wanting the worst for them.
So you you was like, who can you turn to?
Who understands what this is? But family. So we're very
like protective of each other, very supportive of each other
because if not us, we know what's out there, you know,
(36:55):
and we know that we have, you know, a lot
of people that love us. But they're just very conscious
and even there their their support systems that are outside
of our family, their friend group. They haven't quite figured
out that you're not being a great friend sharing every
negative thing that has ever said or written or done
about children, certainly children, Like when they share things about us,
(37:19):
it's like that's still not cool, still not great. But
when they share the things about them, you know, especially
you know our preteen, it's terrified, terrified, it's it's you,
your physical safety feels scary. Look, I think social media,
like did you and Duyanne have a conversation about like
when obviously you guys are cool. Kavia has her own Instagram.
(37:41):
It's also an incredible follower, but like, how did you
guys decide that you guys were going to be posting her?
What about CoV in this? Like? What about a one
year old in this? Yeah? And I think because so
much of our fertility journey was kind of you know,
out there and espec. Actually, when I was on being
Mary Jane, people assume we are the same person. So
(38:03):
when Mary Jane was on her fertility journey and I
actually also was on my fertility journey, they're people want
what is that I want to I've been on this
damn journey with you, I need to say. And so
it becomes a It can create a weird frenzy if
you withhold there is a sermost worse, it's almost worse
(38:25):
so for us because we are such an open family,
whether we're like at a kid's game or a recital
or at target or wherever. We didn't want to create
a whirlwind where there hasn't been pictures of collage. Yeah,
where it's like this thing, and we also wanted to
give hope, and that's what she we kind of recognized
rather quickly. We wanted to give people hope that there
(38:47):
is some because I'm not gonna lie and say every
fertility journey in and baby, but for people who said, oh,
you're too old, or it can't happen, or you know,
give up, let it go, she has become a symbol
of hope a number of people, for a number of
different reasons come to find out because people are like,
shady baby has just gotten me through the worst time
in my life. And I'm like, Okay, that's amazing, and
(39:09):
I love that she gives zero Fox like like this
girl is like she's the She is such an example
of hope and where your determination and your your beautiful
like need to win and beat this thing has really
like she's incredible, but also her face is just like yeah,
and then what happens, Well, we didn't want to create
(39:31):
an Instagram for her about her cuteness or that leans
into beauty or lens into stuff or outfits or whatever.
At times she wears Cuteman's um, but we didn't want
it to be about that specifically. We wanted people to
be okay with liking a little black girl because she's
got a great personality and she has been very clear
(39:55):
with her personality from one the beginning. I truly believe
I in nanny for like ten years, and I've met
a lot of babies as they've come out, and it's
really interesting the nature nurture thing, because they are who
they are, like these spirits and Cavia James so much so,
like if you go on a deep dive on her,
I mean, her attitude of of how she walks this
(40:17):
world is hers and like it's it's so wonderful that
you guys celebrate and just like yeah's all hilarity and right,
I mean, but it becomes like another job, like trying
to figure out like funny captions, like it was supposed
to be a job that me and Duane shared. And
then his first and only time on the job, he
did a tribute to himself congratulations daddy on a great game,
(40:42):
and it was like a picture of him and his
stat line. I'm like, like, this doesn't count now, and
go if you go to her Instagram and go all
the way to the beginning and be like, oh, this
was the one she's talking about and that was the
first and last time, Like this is supposed to be funny,
not a weird tribute. You're hilarious. Turns out you should
think about writing. So now let's segue into your your
amazing kids book, Welcome to the Party that I don't
(41:03):
know if you can tell us much about it, because
I don't think is it out yet? No, No, it'll
come out May five. Yea, look out, guys, I mean
we need to. That is a great gift. I have
so many new and expecting parents in my life. So
can you tell us a little bit about the book? Yeah,
it's it's really for us. We wanted to do a
book about celebrating families however they arrive, right, however they
(41:29):
come to be however you define that right. So for
us welcoming cob to the party, and we said it
in her original post, you know, like welcome to the party. Um,
but like my mom, my mom is seventy two. At sixty,
she adopted her first child, and she subsequently adopted, you know,
(41:49):
she has three children as a senior, As a single senior,
my parents got divorced, you know, after almost thirty of
years of marriage, and this is what her her her
life is, and those families should be support. Welcome to
the family, my new siblings to my mother, like it's
it doesn't have to all be the same birth story
(42:09):
and family creation story. For a lot of people their
work family is their most consistent, reliable family. Welcome to
the party. You know, you're chosen family can be your
most you know, um for a lot of loving and
reliable family. I watched I'm Addicted to Pose, So like
chosen family for a lot of communities is the family,
(42:32):
and we wanted to celebrate all all of that blended families.
So however, you are welcoming people in, whether they are
grown as adults or newborn babies or foster children that
are coming in you know, midstream, welcome, Welcome to the party.
And that's really what it's a celebration of. I can't
wait to read was the cover. I've seen the cover.
(42:54):
It was incredible. It's um, Ashley Evans right, incredible. So
tell me your memoir. We're going to need more wine.
So you're just you're a writer as well. It's all
these things seen, so a lot has changed. We need
like a part Part two is happening. I'm working on
(43:14):
that now. I don't want to say I don't know
if it's luckily or fortunately unfortunately. I had a lot
of chapters that didn't make it into the first memoir
because I wasn't ready. Because to me, I what I
don't like is I do a deep dive on a
memoir or you know, an autobiography, and then you you
can't wait to see these people on these talk shows
(43:35):
or you want to go to their book tour and
they're like, oh, I'm not talking about that that's in
the book, because really, what what you're saying is I
haven't really made peace with some of the show. I
was sharing it in a way that can be helpful.
I wanted to make sure everything I put in wasn't
just salacious for salacious sake. I wasn't knocking on people
just to be knarking on them. I wanted to be
able to really talk about everything in my book in
(43:57):
a way that can make people feel like they're not drowned,
like they're not on an island by themselves, like they're
not screaming into a hurricane and no one can hear them.
I wanted to truly be able to talk about everything
and if I wasn't going to be able to be transparent,
don't put it in the yeah good idea because you
have to go around and publicize it. So like what
the hell? Yeah, So some of those chapters that I saved,
(44:18):
I have been going to therapy diligently. Um, But I'm
also one of those people that's like traditional using my
finger quotes, are traditional therapy, you know, spiritual healers, shamans.
I mean, like, listen, if there's like a lady like
in New Orleans on a street, must see her. Yes,
I agree, I'm so with you. I just feel like
(44:51):
it's been so like wonderful having on Kati's crib because
you struck such a chord in me, Like screen, I
feel like Katie's crib. Really, That's what we're trying to
do here too, is just like make ms feel like
they're not by themselves. And I know we have a
lot of listeners all over the country and aren't lucky
to have like a strong village or a strong support
system or and so I feel like this is so
(45:12):
it's just been so helpful to hear from you. Um,
what advice would you give to somebody who maybe has
Adam I don't know. And what's the other version of
the pronounce it? Didn't I don't even know how to
pronounce it the way they're pronouncing it. But it's it's
it's like A D A D E N O M
Y O S I S as long as you can
(45:34):
spell it. Kids, that's that's like. What does advice for
women who have been diagnosed with this? Well? One of
the biggest helps again, being connected once you once you
claim it and say it. I've been very fortunate that
people have come forward with more help. So I once
I started talking about it. Hannah Brofman, a friend of
(45:54):
mine from New York, she said, oh my god, I
just did I think she did a podcast or a
or a tape being with a Lisa Vitty who is
a hormone specialist, and who can you know? So I
got linked with a Lisa and she was like, cut
out gluten, dairy, caffeine, and alcohol from your diet. Girl.
(46:15):
I mean, my book was called We're gonna need more
wine for at least and the next day after you
need more wine, I'm gonna need more um so all
of and I who doesn't love freaking gluten and I
love real butter like, so the idea of giving these
things up to see if any of these things was
sort of um exacerbating my symptoms and how I am
(46:36):
experiencing I don't know, my oasis. And it had a
massive effect. So one of the things that I would
experience would be bloating that made me look like I
was in my second trimester, which is fun because people
are like, she is bragnet. So it was like this
constant bump watch. But I'm like, why am I so like?
I mean, the blow was extreme. It's not even like
normal like noon, no bloat four pm. I look like
(47:01):
like I'm six months pregnant. It was weird, insane. Couldn't
figure it out. At least it was like cut out gluten,
dairy dad, So I cut it out and listen that
full disclosure. I've pretty I pretty much stick to certainly
during the week during my work week. Uh no gluten,
no dairy. Um. Yeah, the alcohol, we can't. I'm sorry,
(47:23):
but I need it. What I did definitely noticed was
my skin cleared up. I was having hair loss. So
let's okay, let's get into it. Hair loss. That was insane.
I have that right now. Hormonal Yeah, yeah, it's a
good time, so you noticed that totally stopped from dietary.
(47:45):
So what started happening after my first round of IVF
like years ago, but usually about three months after my
last you know, after my egg retrieval, like a dime
size bald spot which just open up on my scalp right. Luckily,
the first few were kind of in the back right
(48:06):
and on. Being Mary Jane, I would wear you know,
wigs and stuff, so it's like they're like, did you
notice there's a bald spot? I'm like, where where? You know,
mostly like you're not looking at the top of your head,
so I didn't. I hadn't noticed. So then, you know,
a couple more rounds a few months go by, they
started popping up towards the front, and what would happen
is the dime size bald spots would connect, So now
(48:28):
they're freaking ovals at the front of my head. So
even wig placement became there's nothing to pin it to
and then there's no there's no little hair to kind
of like blend it in within the front, can't use adhesive.
Developed this your emergency. It became this whole thing with
(48:48):
my hair, and I'm launching a hairline. I can't wear
my natural hair because I've got all spots all over
my head. So the body was having a major crazy
and IVF and all the drugs and horn. I started
having these weird like cystic like mound, you know, those
(49:10):
cystic acne that feel like they're painful, like these eruptions
that are happening underneath and then they rise, but there's
no head to pop like. You just got to live
with these things anyway. So when I changed, she said,
you'll probably see a difference with the bloating and your skin,
and it will. Let's just see what happens with Like
with your hair, hair started growing back. The blow was immediate,
(49:31):
like immediately the bloat gone. The skin it took a
little bit more time, but it started clearing up and
I didn't get anymore those I am the lucky person
sitting across from Miss Gallion right now. Your skin is absurd.
I don't even understand what's happening right now. It's like
I have to wear sunglasses because it's so glowy and stunning.
And this is diet, so we recommend so like people
(49:53):
who are dealing with major hormonal certainly hormonal like this
you think that if you could maybe talk to a
horn mortal specialists. Luckily, she has a book Alsa VITTI
v I T T I, and she's got websites books,
and she literally changed my life. Um you know, I'm
I'm on I'm on her book, you know, talking about
(50:14):
like how amazing this book is because it legit made
a massive difference, you know. And again like pay like
learning to pay attention to your body and what your
normal is. And if you come to that realization like
I did at at you know in my forties that
I have no idea what my normal is because I've
my body has never been I don't say it's never
been normal, but I didn't know what to look forward
(50:35):
to figure it out. I just thought, well, this is
what happened, just like very misinformed and very uneducated when
it comes to our own female bodies. It sucks. I
don't know why that is. It's a cultural thing, it's
a I don't know religiously. I mean, it's like a
lot of different things, but it's terrible. Well, I mean
and for younger women, right, if your periods are extremely
(50:56):
long or extremely painful, or extremely heavy or irregular, these
things should be these, there's some follow up questions you
need to ask your your o B or your your
primary care physician, or go to plant parenthood and and
ask for you know, you know, help, a lot of
low and no costs, you know, um plant parenthoods are
out there around the country, But ask follow up questions.
(51:17):
If the immediate response is birth control and you are
not actively trying to not have a baby, understand that
you're just masking whatever the issue actually is. And and
for a lot of us, that's enough, like we just
want this to stop whatever, go away. What I don't
want to do the work. But when you are, if
and when you are actually ready to have a baby,
(51:39):
understand that not treating whatever the actual root causes of
these irregular periods could factor into your fertility journey. So
it's better to at least have the information as young
as you possibly can know if it's manifesting itself at
a younger age, to at least know what's happening with
your body so you can make conscious, educated choices. And
(52:00):
it sounds like the I think this is my last
mental thing, but it also sounds like just from listening
to you talk for the last bit, I just feel
like there's a thing about asking follow up questions and
holding yourself accountable for demanding more and knowing more. And
then there's also this thing about getting over your own
shame and ego and things like that. And if you
(52:20):
tell a few people, they might know someone who can
help you. And that has been a motherhood thing for me,
Like whenever I suck at something or I don't understand something,
instead of just staying quiet, if I just bring it
up to a few people who I think I might
who think I think they might know better, they can
connect me to someone who does. And that's really the
thing we have to get over, is like using your
(52:41):
voice asking the questions, because it will most likely lead
you to someone who has the answers. It might not
be the first person you ask, it might not be
the third, but if you don't give up, they're going
to direct you to the right person. Right. And if
you're okay with sort of dismantling the mirage, right, if
you're okay to like allow yourself to be I love
any hash like that, dismantle that. If you allow yourself
(53:04):
to be be presented as anything less than perfect, people
will actually give you grace. People will extend that grace.
The same grace that you want, people will extend it
to you. And it's okay to not have everything retouched
or filtered or or the outfits don't match. If your
kid makes it through the day, it's a damn success.
(53:25):
They don't have to make it through the day with
perfect everything whatever, you know, like whatever. Like my husband
is like, are we gonna do anything with coughs hair?
I'm like, not today, probably not tomorrow either. I like
him the mom that doesn't brush herkids hair because he
hates it and he fights me and he cries, and
I'm like, I don't care. She loves it. But you
know what, I have not mastered the art of all
(53:45):
those damn freaking snaps. Like the zipper makes me feel
like I'm zipping up her skin the snaps, and I'm like, listen,
I got about two of the fourteen snaps. Um, how
about just you and this this diaper? At least then
I don't have to take the thing off to check
the stripe to see if you pee, Like like listen, yeah,
(54:05):
we're gonna keep the house at about seventy four degrees,
so you know, so when it's just me and mommy time.
We're all just kind of naked because mommy can't handle
the damn pajama or anything that requires buttons or snaps
or zippers. Well, this one's really easy again, you know
what's terrible? And I'm like, clearly I'm not in mensa
because I can't put my baby in. And also I'm
(54:26):
like really on set all like arthritis because my fingers
like aren't nimble enough to really handle all the baby clothes.
A little shaking, oh, for sure, Like and it's I
don't know if it's shaking from stress or just like
it's probably like I don't know what came first, the
shaking or the or my age or or my anxiety
(54:46):
about freaking backtime pajamas. Like it's impossible. Then when they
don't want to get dressed, is there anything else you
want to add before we say goodbye? You know what,
we're super conditioned to not center ourselves and our own stories,
and because anything less than giving everything, every part of
ourselves to other people, we're that self is bitch. We're
(55:10):
the bad mom, We're the bad wife, We're the bad friend.
When you don't give every piece of yourself to everyone else,
Whenever they feel like they need it. It is okay
to center yourself and your needs and advocate for yourself
and be the center of your own story and be
your best self for yourself so you can offer, in
reasonable doses as you see fit parts of you to
(55:34):
other people. We say in our family, you know, and
in our crew we all we got but that that
that includes the month in the mirror, like start with
you first. I love it so much for coming on
Katie's Crib. This was so special. I learned a ton.
I know our listeners did too. And you guys please
(55:56):
line up for Welcome to the Party. Yes, you can
pre order now. Pre order now. I will be doing
that for sure, and we will link to it on
Katie's Crib. Thank you so much. I want to say
thank you again to Gabrielle Union for coming on the
show and I'm going to take it with me. Give
yourself some grace. I'm saying that to myself and I'm
saying that to all you guys listening. Thank you so much.
(56:17):
Tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast Katie's Crib, follow
us on social channels at Katie's Crib, everywhere you get social,
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Please email me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.
I love you, guys. Katie's Crib is a production of
(56:42):
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I Want, You Want,
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi guys, and welcome
back to Katie's Crib. Today. I am talking to one
of the moms that I've known for a long time,
(00:20):
and she inspires me so, so, so so much. I
can't wait to share all of her stories and brilliance
and genius with you. We've got Gabrielle Union on the
podcast today. UM, if you guys follow Gabrielle, and if
you don't, you should. She has been very open about
her surrogacy and we were really lucky in this episode
that she goes even deeper into her fertility struggles, into
(00:43):
her experience of surrogacy and the impact that Kavia has
made on her life. And I think it's going to
speak to so many of you guys. Um. There's a
few things to note about this week's episode, and that's
that we actually recorded it like two days before the shutdown,
so keep that in mind. Also, she talks about her book,
Welcome to the Party, which is now out and if
you don't have it, go get it. It's wonderful. She
(01:06):
also brings up in the interview that surrogacy is not
legal in all states, and since the recording of this episode,
the state of New York has made gestational surrogacy legal. Finally. Okay, guys,
let's get to the interview. She is an actor, She
is a producer. She is an activist. She is a
New York Times best selling author. She is my woman
(01:29):
crush every day and day. Please welcome the one, the
only Gabrielle Union. And I feel like there needs to
be sound that's like, that's just me, yes, But that's
when it sounds like should follow. You are such an
inspiration to me as a mom, I feel like to
so many women out there. Um, you recently celebrated your daughter,
(01:51):
Covey James first birthday. I saw on Instagram it was
Whiz themed. That was incredible. Congratulations on making it to one.
By the way, Like, come on, don't you feel like
you need to like pat yourself on the back and
just be like, oh my god, I just I'm happy
that I survived bathtime. That's it. I had no idea
what battles I would be facing every day that no
(02:13):
one would ever like count as battles except other mothers. Yeah,
So have you always wanted to be a mom Like no, no, no,
if you were one of those little girls that like
wished for that, No, no, not at all. I didn't
really have dolls like that, like I made my mom
get me a cabbage patch at all, but only because
like to be like a part of the frenzy. I
(02:33):
wanted my mom to be trampled um, you know at
the local department store a cabbue patch all. What changed,
you know what? I think becoming a stepmother and really
finding being a caregiver incredibly rewarding. Again, these like these
little battles that unless you're doing it, they don't feel
(02:54):
like much, but just feeling such such such a sense
of accomplishment, you know, after you know, studying with kids
or or practicing with them, and you watch them thrive,
and you watch them be happy, and you you you
survived the first breakup or you survived the first heartache
or or whatever, because you came into being their stepmom
when they were already I mean they weren't babies anymore, right, No,
(03:15):
they were, so I feel like to me, that scares
a ship out of me. I mean, for you to
come in dealing with kids who are already sort of
who they are, and they're dealing with like big emotional
things like oh my god. So you come to this
decision you're like, I've really enjoyed being a stepmom. Yeah,
and it's like, well, maybe maybe were the other women
in your life becoming moms, Like were they like was it?
(03:36):
Was it something that you were like, everyone's doing that
and I'm sort of interested or were close friends of
your doing it? And I was like, looks tough. It
looks exactly like it is. It looks tough. Um. Yeah,
Like and you know, when you're around enough, you're not
just seeing the social media moments that that parents tend
(03:57):
to post, watching the full on meltdowns, you're watching illness.
You're watching like how it tests marriages and relationships. You're saying,
you're saying what it really is? Um. But for us
in our household, it just felt like maybe we could
do this. And so it started off with maybe we
(04:18):
could do this, to let's go for it, and then
each time it felt like we were getting closer, but
the carrot kept moving, you know, with our fertility journey.
But we're like, no, we're doing this, no one, you know,
So it starts to become this thing that it's like, wait,
we're working really hard for a goal and now it's
becoming a parent that we really want this. I kind
(04:40):
of had a similar situation because I had a miscarrot.
Like the first time I got pregnant, I was like,
I think I want to do this. I think, but
I'm also absolutely terrified. And then it wasn't until I
got pregnant and lost that pregnancy where I was like,
oh no, like I really wanted this, Like this is
oh God, Now I feel like I really really, really
really want and I didn't know. Also, you want to
(05:02):
conquer your body totally, like if you're used to you
work hard. Then X happened and it's like, okay, so
I've worked hard and is your birthday October twenty. I'm
a Scorpio. Are my favorite women on the planet by
the way, full on scorpio. So I was like, I'm
not gonna lose, right, So you're it's all kind of
mixed in right at this desire to expand the family,
(05:26):
but also I'm not losing I'm working too hard. I'm
not going to lose it this And my body was
like was it like paint? Like so you got diagnosed
with I'm going to pronounce this incorrectly, but you've told
me there's multiple ways your pronounces. I've heard it pronounced
demosis and I say adamomosis, adam myosis. Yes, are are
(05:47):
IVF doctor you know pronounces it slightly different. Um. But
I pronounced it adnomosis. But it's endometriosis of the muscle.
How did you know you had that? It was? I
went undiagnosed for through multiple pole rounds of IVF with
different leading doctors in the field around the country. I
went to dark Are you kidding you? Went through multiple
(06:08):
rounds of I VF and no one was like this
is the issue. Not until the last doctor, Dr Kelly,
back in California. UM that you know, first first ultrasound,
she was like, oh, so you have ad myosis. And
I was like, oh, what's that and she was like yeah,
she was like it's pretty pronounced. UM. I doubt this
just arrived. I don't know why no one would have
(06:31):
noticed this. This is really you know, because I guess
you can have varying degrees of how bad your case
is it, which is similar in endometriosis as well. But
also I'm reading these statistics that like one in ten
women have adno myosis and that's and they probably don't
(06:51):
know it. They don't know it. And the first and
only person i'd heard address it publicly was Lena Dunham.
So the second I heard you know that word, I
didn't know her. I mean, I know who she is,
but I just d M her and I was like, hey,
I just got this diagnosis. You've been pretty open about
your journey, Like what is like, what is this like?
(07:11):
Can you help connect me to know other women who
never felt a pain or anything? No, it doesn't, I
mean to me, it didn't feel I've had it. Yeah, yeah,
forever long I've had it. And it was a different
experience than Lena's. So then it was like, well, it's
not one thing. It's not one way of of of
manifesting in one's body, and every woman is not going
(07:32):
to experience the same thing. I would have never probably
known had I not been on this fertility journey. So
going back, so when my doctor started at when doctor
Beck started asking me more questions going back to my periods,
um and what my my experience was like with my
periods as a you know, as a younger woman, And
(07:53):
I explained that I ended up getting on the pill,
not for birth control reasons, but because my periods were
lasting like a third of the month and I was
bleeding like I had been shot in the vagina. I
have goose bumps when I hear stuff like this because
I feel like we do a terrible job like just
teaching women. I don't know whose fault that is, but
(08:14):
I'm going to point finger. I mean, I just I
we do a really bad job of knowing our bodies
and knowing when we need to ask for help, Like
because the period, we don't talk about our periods and everything,
so like private and embarrassing and shame is circling all
of these things. And I remember, like when I was
trying to I didn't get a period for six months
after I had a miscarriage because I had a d
(08:36):
n C and it took me a long time to
get regular. So I ended up going to a fertility
acupuncturist who was like teaching me for the first time,
like what my body does every month of when you
would be fertile. Like she's like, well, is your discharge? Yeah, guys,
I said, it discharge like this or like that, and
what's the fluid and where your service? And I was like,
I've never had this conversation with anybody ever, and I
(09:00):
don't know like if we're supposed to be having that
with our daughters or mothers, or like how long is
your period because if it's one third of the month,
like that's too long, or if like you have to
cancel your life because you're in that much pain every
time you get it, like we need to see somebody. Well,
when we use words like the curse, you know, or
or the woman's burden like or whatever, it kind of
it kind of conditions you to think periods equal badd right,
(09:23):
And and to say that, you know, having a period
that's extremely long or extremely heavy isn't normal. We can't
confuse the words you know, not normal with not common. Right,
That's very true. That's very true. Right, So it's actually
quite common to have a regular period, of course, but
using you know, a lot of doctors will say I'm
(09:44):
going to put you on birth control to regulate your period.
But what they're not saying is being on birth control
is the absence of a period. You're not actually having
a period. What you're experiencing is breakthrough breakthrough bleeding due
to taking the bliss sed in the last week, but
if no one spells that out for you, so you
(10:05):
think you're controlling or you're regulating your period and you're
treating or whatever it is what is causing these long
periods or painful periods or heavy periods when you're not.
It's just masking whatever the issue is for however long
you're on birth control right and you might not know
there is something and whether or not you have an
uncommon cycle that can be totally your body doing its thing,
(10:30):
or it might be something in your case that was
something that needed to be more looked at. And especially
when I read these statistics that like it's one intent,
like that's that's normal, guys, turns out like one intent,
like that's not one in five hundreds. That's like a
lot of people are dealing with things and either masking
them with birth control or not seeking help or feeling
embarrassed not to talk about it or something like that.
(10:51):
So Dr Beck, Yeah, Dr Kelly back. Dr Kelly Back,
She's amazed, amazing. She tells you she has this, and
does she say to you, you're not gonna be able
to get pregnant, Like what does she say? No? She
just is honest for the first time that, like, my
road will be extremely challenging, and the only way that
I would be able to physically carry my baby myself
(11:13):
is if I use this drug called lupron. And I
remember Lena Donna mentioned lupron. But what lupron does is
it creates kind of like brittle bones. So like, I
don't know if you guys remember Lena was walking her
dog and I think stepped off the curb and broke
like Baker broke her like ankle or something. And I
live an active lifestyle. The roles I'm playing are very
(11:34):
asical and it only gives you, like I think it's
like a thirty percent chance. So do I run the
risk of causing greater harm to my body for a
thirty percent chance? And she was one of the first
people to really like be honest about surregacy, you know,
and also anomosis, you know, affects your ovarian reserve, so
(11:54):
doing you know if you're if you're going to a
fertility clinic where they're charging you par ound a you know,
if you're going in and no one's diagnosing you correctly,
and what is that per round? It's gun or something
it's expensive. Well it varies from you know, place to place,
but a lot of places will offer older women or
women who have, you know, these conditions that have been
(12:16):
diagnosed rounds to basically bundle, almost like bundling, you know, cycles.
So you you might do um, three round for this price. Yeah,
for this price, because you're not going to get a
ton of eggs. And even if you do get a
ton of eggs, which of those eggs would be viable?
You know, it's just not that many. So but no
one's super clear or honest because that affects your your business,
(12:40):
right um. And she was the first person that was
just honest, so kind of you know. Immediately when she
says surrogacy, I took that as failure. You are a failure.
And so I was like, I think I can do
some lupron. I'm pretty sure I can film being Mary
Jane and and I might be able to break some
bones and okay, you know. And my husband was like, Babe,
(13:05):
I want you. I want you as much as we
want this baby. I want you. Like, but let's let's
pump the brakes and think about this, um and make
a family decision. Um I And it was just like
you know, and so we really do take that on
as women though, like we really feel that failure thing
like pretty hard. But also yeah, no, you're not a woman.
(13:29):
Your body has failed you and you're not You're not
woman enough. You think, what did I do wrong? How
can I fix this? My body has failed me and
I'm basically a nothing. And if there's a chance I'll
take it, I'll quit work, you know, like the thing
that I love to do, Like you will sacrifice all
(13:50):
of those things in order to prove yourself, you know.
Just so yeah, Dwayne, yea and yea you for coming
around to the idea and then going down this surrogacy path,
which this is amazing, Like we haven't spoken to anybody,
I don't think yet on Katie's script. That's how to
start get even though I've had a few friends go
down the journey and it's unbelievable once you wrapped your
(14:14):
head around. Now this is part of my fertility journey,
and this is part of our story to get CoV
Like how did you find a part? Like what did
you do well? You know, as a scorpio, I am
super type A. I'd like to control as much of
any given situation as I can control. So imagine me
(14:34):
having to figure out a who to trust and then
trusting someone for ten months. For ten months, that's not
living in your house that you don't control. You don't
know what they're doing, you know, Um, you don't know
if they are eating a cheetah or a or a
cucumber or like if that would have been your call anyway,
like who knows, or they're doing their prenatal yoga classes.
(14:54):
I mean, whatever the thing is that you're harping on you,
I'm a control freak. Also, that would key me up
at night. So, I mean, luckily we found a surrogate
who had been a surrogate before, who also had her
own children and and a very supportive husband and a
really flexible job. And the thing that let me know
that this was the right was the right woman. We
(15:15):
were reading the same books. You can rest your head
on the pillow knowing that your taste is similar and
your maybe your values or in alignment if you're reading
the same books. Wow, um honey, sure other people forever
reason because I was like, look, she's obviously done this before,
(15:37):
she's she's had healthy babies. I'm not going to micromanage
somebody who's honey, lesson, I got this. But the thing
that gave me peace, and what gives every family piece
is obviously different. For my husband, what gave him peace
was her husband being so supportive of her and them
wanting us to know their whole family right. And for me,
(15:58):
it was that we had similar taste in books, and
I was, like, that means a lot. It's just it's
just one of those weird things. And for me, that
was the thing that allowed me to sleep. And you know,
I also feel like it would be so like I
I'm feeling such a relief by knowing she had done
it before, you know what I mean like that like
she was sort of like, I got this, I know
(16:19):
how it works. Like we're good. How was the forty weeks?
Was can you have open surgency or closer? Like is
it something where like you're texting all the time and
checking in or maybe some people want to keep it
more you know, more like not that personal. Every every
surrogacy journey is different. I've come to learn, like most
people don't say like and our baby like and like
(16:42):
kind of really be more transparent about the whole process
because again, there's so much shame involved with not carrying
you know, your child and the birth journey. There's just
a lot of shame, you know for you know, it's
and it's sad, and it's super unfortunate and it's unnecessary,
which is why we wanted to show people a different
way and that your baby is still going to be
(17:03):
celebrated in your birth journey, is still going to be celebrating,
your family is still going to be celebrated. But yeah,
we had a group chat. So it's me and my husband,
her her husband, and we went we all all four
of us went to all of the doctor's appointments um together.
You know, we might exchange a group text about like
what we're binge watching because she was on bed rest
for a bit in the first trimester when the pregnancy
(17:26):
was a bit in jeopardy due to you know, something
happening with her cervix, and so we were all kind
of binging you know, the same shows. We could have
something to talk about, like she's stuff, you know, like
she's stuck at home and it's like, you know, the
least we can do is have a common interest. Yeah,
but we were we would just stayed connected through the
whole time, and they weren't physically that like far and
(17:48):
and again, like if you're listening in a state where
surrogacy is is outlawed um like like in New York
or in Arizona, and that that kind of thing. Everyone's
surrogacy journey is different. There is no one right way
or wrong way. I think for some families who don't
have as much contact, it's just a heart. It's just
a hard sometimes odd thing to kind of wrap your
(18:10):
brain around. Yes, so everyone kind of copes in different
sitting here thinking like how important it is the work
you do, and that how open you are with this stuff,
and how wonderful it was that Lena was so open
about her endometriosis because you can see the direct line
of help, you know what I mean, Like you reached
out to her and now like people will look to
(18:31):
you for surreg you know, for surgasy support. Like that's
you know, if you've been in the mix of a
surrogacy challenge, I don't know, it's I don't know how
exactly it all happens or who kind of puts the
word out there is like a fertility I feel like
I can say this underground railroad if you will, of
(18:53):
women who are completely connected to doctors, acupuncturist, therapist, other women.
But it's like shrouded in secrecy because again, everyone moves
through this fertility journey differently, and for so many there
is so much shame about your body betraying you, and
you just don't want people to know. But there's this
(19:17):
amazing network of women working low key um to help
you through the process. And once I went through the
process and was vocal about it, I get at least
a few times a week people wanting I know someone
who you make the connections. That's just how I like
(19:39):
the idea of paying it forward, because it's hard and
certain parts of it just freaking suck. Whereas there ever
a time that you were like your biggest fears about
not being able to control the pregnancy in the way
you would have Was there anything that came up that
would like you were so freaked out? Was she when
she was on bed rest? Or was there anything? I
(20:00):
think by that time I had suffered so much loss
you're almost expecting it. You start to just this is
gonna work for the worst case scenario, like, well, this
is one more thing that didn't work, you know, like
the first miss, my first miscarriage was by far the
most traumatizing and just destructive to my soul. It broke
(20:23):
me in a different kind of way. So the ones
that followed after, like they're like, how many do you have?
Like I don't know. I kind of lost track because
it's you're just conditioned to like, I'm going to keep trying,
because that's what that's what winners do. But it didn't
hit like that first one, and and having to call
back all those people and say it's not happening. And
(20:45):
and for me, like I have a real fear of
public humiliation, I mean in any part of my life,
and the humiliation I felt when miscarriage is so common,
but the humiliation I felt having to call those people
who were like literally in tears that we've gotten this
far and and have to call them back and be like,
(21:07):
you know, it's not it's not happening. That was like
like excruciating, excruciating, you really, Like I remember when we
were first pregnant, and I was like taking videos of
when I told people I was pregnant, like my grandparents
and my parents and all this stuff. And I still
have those videos somewhere, and I just told that him.
I was like delete, like I can't because and then
(21:30):
the next time you get pregnant, you're like horrified and
you're like, I'm not telling anyone until they're in college
because I'm yeah, like you, that first month of surrogacy,
you were just like, well, I've already I mean, this
has been fucking impossible. It wasn't until the fifth month
where we were like, okay, at month five, I should
probably tell my job. Right month five, I suppose we
(21:50):
can tell people. We didn't that, so I told my job,
and thank god, I mean I have part of being
the boss is you know, like and and Jessica being
so clear when she took the job, like I am
breast fading. This is what it is like, I'm a mom.
My kids are going to be around like they were
like perfect and we're not nothing. No part of us
(22:11):
being active mothers or you know other people in our
production being active parents slows us down. You know what
I mean, we are probably the most efficient production beyonause
we value parenthood. I was like, oh, okay, okay, cool.
You know, so at what point can should we tell
the network spectrum or whoever? And I was like, I guess, no,
(22:33):
I don't know because I've never gotten this far. And
then as it started getting closer to the do date,
I started freaking out, like, oh, this is actually happening.
Like I've been so prepared for loss. I was not
ready for like Cobb to be a thing. And I
was like, when she was born, it was like, tell
(22:54):
me about that, did you? Were you all in the
hospital together? Yeah? Yeah, So it was It's like a
weird out of body experience, but for me it kind
of lasted for months and months and months, like because
it's a it's happening outside of your body, so you
don't have that physical change happening. That kind of helps
to sort of, I guess, prepare you that something's going
(23:14):
to leave your body at something you're kind of just
sort of like watching it, and then there she is
and it's like, oh my god, you're overjoyed and this
is like oh wow. But like imposter syndrome hits quick,
like HiT's. I mean, for me, it hits like how
do I even announce this? Are they going to say
(23:36):
I'm super Hollywood and I didn't want to mess up
my body? Are they going to say, like you waited
too long as they did you have people again like
when you started to announce, So did you not announce
to the world that you were using a surrogate during
the surrogacy? I can't remember. So it wasn't until she
was there. No, I mean and and because like we're
you know, we're we're cool with with with Kim Kardashian
(23:56):
and watching her surrogate be hunted, um, which you know,
puts the baby, and we yeah, not again, that was
we only needed the one time to see that happening.
We're like, yeah, I know, um, but we were very
clear we as a family that we were going to
be very transparent once she arrived safely that she came
via surrogate and what our journey looked like. And thankfully
(24:16):
Oprah was like I would like to be a part
of telling this story, you know, like we want to
try to help as many people as possible, and so
we you know, we were able to do the two
part or Super Soul Sunday with with Oprah. But even that,
it was like I'm holding Cobb and I'm like they're
gonna come take her, like they're going to figure out
that Even then, like a fraud like that I didn't
(24:37):
do it, like I didn't, I didn't birth her, like
I don't know what I'm doing, like I'm not ready,
like I don't. I'm not prepared, even though I'm nutty
about preparation. Had you already done the baby? Like was
her room ready? That was like that? Like did you
have a shower? Did you like was all that stuff
or you were like I don't want any of that
stuff because I'm superstitious, like people feel you, we're nervous
(25:00):
about having a shower because then it's out there. It
could be out there, and you can't trust every person
to just keep that what they think is sharing good
news is like putting our curguit in danger. So we
had a shower, if you will. After she was born,
it was welcome to the party, CoV um, you know,
a celebration of life, like you know, introducing her to
(25:21):
everybody beautiful aside from like personally, once people knew you
were going about the surregacy route, and of course there's
all those stupid horrible Hollywood like she just didn't want
to blah blah blah. What about in your personal life,
(25:44):
were there anybody that was like friends of yours or
work people who were like judgmental or no. I mean,
I mean, I think partly because people had been on
this long year's long journey and had, like most of
them had probably suggested probably around year two, like you
know there's other ways, you know what I mean that
(26:05):
they had been through the phone calls of miscarriages. So
everyone was just so happy. Even before I was diagnosed correctly,
they were like, you know, there's another way, like you
don't have to keep doing this, And I was like, sabotage,
you know what I mean, to win, you know, like
totally yeah. But no, they were so so so understanding.
(26:26):
My my father was and I to this day still
confused how she looks like us and not like the surrogate. Yeah,
she looks like you guys like you, But he just
doesn't understand that that our surrogate. And with different surrogacy stories,
(26:49):
it might be a donor sperm or a donor egg
or you know, like it could be any combination of things.
Each person's is different every and everyone's is the right
way for them. But my dad does not get that
there is no biological connection to the circuit. They're like,
it's it's it's crazy she's she's so brown, like is
(27:11):
it because her parents are black? Like Dad, like, I don't.
It's just so it's a crazy j of like oh,
this is like possible. And he'll say things like deal,
do you let her see her kid? And we're like
are you being wilfully ignorant or just to hurt me?
Or like are you legit still confused about how this works? Wow? Um,
(27:34):
when she was born, did you feel an immediate connection?
Because I did not to my son. I for weeks.
I was like, this is a stranger in my house
who has disrupted everything. Did you feel did you take
one look at her? And no? Did you take one
look at her? And it was completely complicated? Was it? No?
I mean not with the her of it all, Like
(27:56):
I think when she immediately came out, I was like,
she looks like my husband, like like from Jump and
so I'm not to sound like a weird sap, but
like I'm so in love with my husband. Her looking
like him was just like oh dope, like yeah, like
like this is great. Yeah, Like so it was like
(28:17):
I love him, I love her Like it was more
of like I didn't. I never even had like dolls,
like I never babysat, Like I was more inclined to
most someone's lawn or walk their dogs than and we
always had animals. This is nothing like when people like, oh,
it's the same as a puppic. No, No, it's actually not.
I can stick my dogs in a kennel for a minute,
you know, I can't do that with a kid. So
(28:39):
I just felt like I'm so ill equipped, like I'm
not knowledgeable enough, Like I don't know what the hell
is there a test I'm supposed to take, Like they're
just going to drop her off and no one's coming
back to check, Like this is insane. Why are why
is anyone trusting his dude? We're good with babies. I
know you became a stepmom later, and he started off
as a team m um, so he was a teen parent.
(29:02):
So he's been a parent more than half his life.
So he's, oh yeah, he's like a vet, you know,
like he's the old ground. I would love to see that,
Like what a role reversal of him teaching you, Like
that's not how you do a good swaddle, you know.
I mean like he's he's old hat, like has done this,
you know, so many times, And because he was not
(29:24):
super wealthy, you know, teen parent, you know, like him
and his ex wife, you know, when they were teen parents.
You know, he was an athlete on scholarship, so they
were on you know, they used social services, they were
on with you know, like that there. It was a
different experience, but he figured it out. And he had
to be out of necessity because I couldn't afford daycare,
(29:44):
hands on like school practice home she you know, so
he had to learn as at a very young age.
So yeah, he was super And You're like, I don't
I didn't take this time us this I can. I
don't know what to do well. And he took this
you know, paternity leave in the middle of an NBA season,
(30:05):
which had not happened. I'm you know, I love him. Yeah,
like during his his farewell tour, you know, he took
this two weeks and and then he was gone. And
now I'm like alone because he's back in Miami. We're
in l A because I'm filming in l A. And
I'm like, I'm going and luckily we have a ton
(30:27):
of you know, of help in our village, all like
descended like locusts, which is a whole different thing that
parents don't really talk about like trying to manage a newborn,
and also extended family's expectations about what they need in
your time of need, like it's that's whole, a whole
different the worst, Like you need to know we have
like in your you know, people have these like plans
(30:48):
of what it's going to look like. And I'm always like, well,
who are your who are who's your village that's actually
helpful and like washes dishes, and who's the village that
sits on the couch and now you're making them meals
and taking care of your kid because that those people
you don't want around and offering NonStop commentary about everything
you're doing wrong, like no, thank you? How is your
(31:10):
work life balance shift, identity crisis? Did you have one? Did?
How do we feel? It's all? Do you feel better now?
Was it a shock at first? Like it's the same
when people ask about balance. I was like, I'm always
like the balance is no balance is understanding. There is
no balance. There just isn't. There's just there's this It's
(31:31):
it's physically impossible. I have too many things going on
in any given day. Something is going to give. She's like, no,
the day I'm an amazing mom is the day I'm
a failure as a writer. And the day I'm at
like Sandro's last day on Gray's Anatomy, is the day
that I'm not showing up to my daughter's piano recital
and I'm fucking failing as a mom. So like, you
(31:53):
make choices and maybe it evens out at an end
of a certain year, but like who knows, well, yeah, no,
I mean and and the mom guilt right is real,
But it's also like because I'd heard it, you know,
like I've been around mothers and and reading and seeing
in media and you know, and entertainment. The mom guilt.
(32:13):
Mom get mom guilt. I felt guilty for not feeling guilty.
And I was like, well what happens when a mom
doesn't feel guilty? But other moms are talking about mom guilt?
And I'm like I feel but yeah, you're like, I
feel fucking great? Great where the spot? Yeah went to
the gym. My friend Liz Asked wrote this book that
was like the stay at work Mom. She's the mom
that's like staying in her car because she's delivering a script.
(32:36):
She's a very fancy comedy writer and she's like, I
think I'll just make it for the last two minutes
before they go to bed, and she loves it. She's
like it takes all. Also, you might this is a
long journey, and I feel like there might be certain
My husband like say, like there might be certain years
you just prefer than others, Like you might just not
(32:57):
be like so into the baby ship. You might be
really into seven year old. You might be really down
for the twelve year old. Like you just don't know,
and that can change week to week, that can change
year to year. But this is like a long asshole
that we are on. And it's okay to feel guilt
Monday zero Tuesday, Like it doesn't have to be your thing.
(33:18):
It doesn't have to be part of your identity. Is
where you're always like, oh my god, you know, I
feel so guilty because then people are like, oh, that's
the kind of mom she is, and you kind of
established this identity that you You're like, well, it doesn't
always apply. Like it's okay to like be whoever you
are in any given moment. And also really like working
and I'm like sweating, like I'm in the like I'm
(33:40):
on the stand, You're beautiful and it's a glow. I
can tell you guys, all right, now get really sweat
she glows. Now. How was the introduction? Like did your
blended family know the insides and outs of the surrogacy
situation or where were we not filling everyone in because
they were kids and who knows that built up of
(34:00):
friends and friends and I don't know how everyone knew
everyone knew and your immediate family and how was the
introduction like this is the way our family looks now?
Has everyone been on board? Well? I think because it's
been such a long journey for our family and the
people who took that first miscarriage the hardest after me
(34:26):
were the kids, Like when you get so excited about
something and then it's the idea of something you were
excited about is not happening, and then explaining the concept
of miscarriage and like they take it as like dead
you know what I mean in wrapping your brain around
(34:47):
that with children who have never really experienced like a
grandparent dying or you know, anyone sort of close to
them in that kind of way dying, So explaining all
of that was brutal for them. So we wanted them
to be a part of this of this journey. We
told them after the first trimester and really started sharing
(35:08):
more of the pictures after the fifth month, so sonograms things,
so in case they slipped up and wanted to share
with somebody, at least we were kind of past a certain,
of course point, but they didn't. Our kids are freaking dope,
and they're so family and I know there's differences between
(35:29):
what we put out there and not and I do
think you're one of the most incredible follows, not only
in its honesty and your openness, but I just feel
like your blended family is very supportive of each other
and looks it just is like can I get in that?
Like I'm just like this is the best, Like your
parties looks like, of course everything is about a partying,
(35:51):
but it just seems like everyone's really supportive of each other,
and like, what else do you guys want? Like, come on, everybody,
get on in our house. Like our kids only know
like their most conscious memories are with a famous father.
And then when I join in, it's like it's too
fer And they see because they have phones, they have
(36:12):
friends who can't wait to tell them all the negative stuff,
so they see the attacks. They see all the negative,
any negative, they're like, maybe they missed it. Nope, they
didn't miss it. They'll go down a rabbit hole about
you know, us, and they'll have these like random questions like,
oh baby, you know everything on a blog isn't actually real?
Those kind of things. So they've seen all the negative,
(36:33):
and then when they got to a certain age, they
started adults taking shots at them, wanting the worst for them.
So you you was like, who can you turn to?
Who understands what this is? But family. So we're very
like protective of each other, very supportive of each other
because if not us, we know what's out there, you know,
(36:55):
and we know that we have, you know, a lot
of people that love us. But they're just very conscious
and even there their their support systems that are outside
of our family, their friend group. They haven't quite figured
out that you're not being a great friend sharing every
negative thing that has ever said or written or done
about children, certainly children, Like when they share things about us,
(37:19):
it's like that's still not cool, still not great. But
when they share the things about them, you know, especially
you know our preteen, it's terrified, terrified, it's it's you,
your physical safety feels scary. Look, I think social media,
like did you and Duyanne have a conversation about like
when obviously you guys are cool. Kavia has her own Instagram.
(37:41):
It's also an incredible follower, but like, how did you
guys decide that you guys were going to be posting her?
What about CoV in this? Like? What about a one
year old in this? Yeah? And I think because so
much of our fertility journey was kind of you know,
out there and espec. Actually, when I was on being
Mary Jane, people assume we are the same person. So
(38:03):
when Mary Jane was on her fertility journey and I
actually also was on my fertility journey, they're people want
what is that I want to I've been on this
damn journey with you, I need to say. And so
it becomes a It can create a weird frenzy if
you withhold there is a sermost worse, it's almost worse
(38:25):
so for us because we are such an open family,
whether we're like at a kid's game or a recital
or at target or wherever. We didn't want to create
a whirlwind where there hasn't been pictures of collage. Yeah,
where it's like this thing, and we also wanted to
give hope, and that's what she we kind of recognized
rather quickly. We wanted to give people hope that there
(38:47):
is some because I'm not gonna lie and say every
fertility journey in and baby, but for people who said, oh,
you're too old, or it can't happen, or you know,
give up, let it go, she has become a symbol
of hope a number of people, for a number of
different reasons come to find out because people are like,
shady baby has just gotten me through the worst time
in my life. And I'm like, Okay, that's amazing, and
(39:09):
I love that she gives zero Fox like like this
girl is like she's the She is such an example
of hope and where your determination and your your beautiful
like need to win and beat this thing has really
like she's incredible, but also her face is just like yeah,
and then what happens, Well, we didn't want to create
(39:31):
an Instagram for her about her cuteness or that leans
into beauty or lens into stuff or outfits or whatever.
At times she wears Cuteman's um, but we didn't want
it to be about that specifically. We wanted people to
be okay with liking a little black girl because she's
got a great personality and she has been very clear
(39:55):
with her personality from one the beginning. I truly believe
I in nanny for like ten years, and I've met
a lot of babies as they've come out, and it's
really interesting the nature nurture thing, because they are who
they are, like these spirits and Cavia James so much so,
like if you go on a deep dive on her,
I mean, her attitude of of how she walks this
(40:17):
world is hers and like it's it's so wonderful that
you guys celebrate and just like yeah's all hilarity and right,
I mean, but it becomes like another job, like trying
to figure out like funny captions, like it was supposed
to be a job that me and Duane shared. And
then his first and only time on the job, he
did a tribute to himself congratulations daddy on a great game,
(40:42):
and it was like a picture of him and his
stat line. I'm like, like, this doesn't count now, and
go if you go to her Instagram and go all
the way to the beginning and be like, oh, this
was the one she's talking about and that was the
first and last time, Like this is supposed to be funny,
not a weird tribute. You're hilarious. Turns out you should
think about writing. So now let's segue into your your
amazing kids book, Welcome to the Party that I don't
(41:03):
know if you can tell us much about it, because
I don't think is it out yet? No, No, it'll
come out May five. Yea, look out, guys, I mean
we need to. That is a great gift. I have
so many new and expecting parents in my life. So
can you tell us a little bit about the book? Yeah,
it's it's really for us. We wanted to do a
book about celebrating families however they arrive, right, however they
(41:29):
come to be however you define that right. So for
us welcoming cob to the party, and we said it
in her original post, you know, like welcome to the party. Um,
but like my mom, my mom is seventy two. At sixty,
she adopted her first child, and she subsequently adopted, you know,
(41:49):
she has three children as a senior, As a single senior,
my parents got divorced, you know, after almost thirty of
years of marriage, and this is what her her her
life is, and those families should be support. Welcome to
the family, my new siblings to my mother, like it's
it doesn't have to all be the same birth story
(42:09):
and family creation story. For a lot of people their
work family is their most consistent, reliable family. Welcome to
the party. You know, you're chosen family can be your
most you know, um for a lot of loving and
reliable family. I watched I'm Addicted to Pose, So like
chosen family for a lot of communities is the family,
(42:32):
and we wanted to celebrate all all of that blended families.
So however, you are welcoming people in, whether they are
grown as adults or newborn babies or foster children that
are coming in you know, midstream, welcome, Welcome to the party.
And that's really what it's a celebration of. I can't
wait to read was the cover. I've seen the cover.
(42:54):
It was incredible. It's um, Ashley Evans right, incredible. So
tell me your memoir. We're going to need more wine.
So you're just you're a writer as well. It's all
these things seen, so a lot has changed. We need
like a part Part two is happening. I'm working on
(43:14):
that now. I don't want to say I don't know
if it's luckily or fortunately unfortunately. I had a lot
of chapters that didn't make it into the first memoir
because I wasn't ready. Because to me, I what I
don't like is I do a deep dive on a
memoir or you know, an autobiography, and then you you
can't wait to see these people on these talk shows
(43:35):
or you want to go to their book tour and
they're like, oh, I'm not talking about that that's in
the book, because really, what what you're saying is I
haven't really made peace with some of the show. I
was sharing it in a way that can be helpful.
I wanted to make sure everything I put in wasn't
just salacious for salacious sake. I wasn't knocking on people
just to be knarking on them. I wanted to be
able to really talk about everything in my book in
(43:57):
a way that can make people feel like they're not drowned,
like they're not on an island by themselves, like they're
not screaming into a hurricane and no one can hear them.
I wanted to truly be able to talk about everything
and if I wasn't going to be able to be transparent,
don't put it in the yeah good idea because you
have to go around and publicize it. So like what
the hell? Yeah, So some of those chapters that I saved,
(44:18):
I have been going to therapy diligently. Um, But I'm
also one of those people that's like traditional using my
finger quotes, are traditional therapy, you know, spiritual healers, shamans.
I mean, like, listen, if there's like a lady like
in New Orleans on a street, must see her. Yes,
I agree, I'm so with you. I just feel like
(44:51):
it's been so like wonderful having on Kati's crib because
you struck such a chord in me, Like screen, I
feel like Katie's crib. Really, That's what we're trying to
do here too, is just like make ms feel like
they're not by themselves. And I know we have a
lot of listeners all over the country and aren't lucky
to have like a strong village or a strong support
system or and so I feel like this is so
(45:12):
it's just been so helpful to hear from you. Um,
what advice would you give to somebody who maybe has
Adam I don't know. And what's the other version of
the pronounce it? Didn't I don't even know how to
pronounce it the way they're pronouncing it. But it's it's
it's like A D A D E N O M
Y O S I S as long as you can
(45:34):
spell it. Kids, that's that's like. What does advice for
women who have been diagnosed with this? Well? One of
the biggest helps again, being connected once you once you
claim it and say it. I've been very fortunate that
people have come forward with more help. So I once
I started talking about it. Hannah Brofman, a friend of
(45:54):
mine from New York, she said, oh my god, I
just did I think she did a podcast or a
or a tape being with a Lisa Vitty who is
a hormone specialist, and who can you know? So I
got linked with a Lisa and she was like, cut
out gluten, dairy, caffeine, and alcohol from your diet. Girl.
(46:15):
I mean, my book was called We're gonna need more
wine for at least and the next day after you
need more wine, I'm gonna need more um so all
of and I who doesn't love freaking gluten and I
love real butter like, so the idea of giving these
things up to see if any of these things was
sort of um exacerbating my symptoms and how I am
(46:36):
experiencing I don't know, my oasis. And it had a
massive effect. So one of the things that I would
experience would be bloating that made me look like I
was in my second trimester, which is fun because people
are like, she is bragnet. So it was like this
constant bump watch. But I'm like, why am I so like?
I mean, the blow was extreme. It's not even like
normal like noon, no bloat four pm. I look like
(47:01):
like I'm six months pregnant. It was weird, insane. Couldn't
figure it out. At least it was like cut out gluten,
dairy dad, So I cut it out and listen that
full disclosure. I've pretty I pretty much stick to certainly
during the week during my work week. Uh no gluten,
no dairy. Um. Yeah, the alcohol, we can't. I'm sorry,
(47:23):
but I need it. What I did definitely noticed was
my skin cleared up. I was having hair loss. So
let's okay, let's get into it. Hair loss. That was insane.
I have that right now. Hormonal Yeah, yeah, it's a
good time, so you noticed that totally stopped from dietary.
(47:45):
So what started happening after my first round of IVF
like years ago, but usually about three months after my
last you know, after my egg retrieval, like a dime
size bald spot which just open up on my scalp right. Luckily,
the first few were kind of in the back right
(48:06):
and on. Being Mary Jane, I would wear you know,
wigs and stuff, so it's like they're like, did you
notice there's a bald spot? I'm like, where where? You know,
mostly like you're not looking at the top of your head,
so I didn't. I hadn't noticed. So then, you know,
a couple more rounds a few months go by, they
started popping up towards the front, and what would happen
is the dime size bald spots would connect, So now
(48:28):
they're freaking ovals at the front of my head. So
even wig placement became there's nothing to pin it to
and then there's no there's no little hair to kind
of like blend it in within the front, can't use adhesive.
Developed this your emergency. It became this whole thing with
(48:48):
my hair, and I'm launching a hairline. I can't wear
my natural hair because I've got all spots all over
my head. So the body was having a major crazy
and IVF and all the drugs and horn. I started
having these weird like cystic like mound, you know, those
(49:10):
cystic acne that feel like they're painful, like these eruptions
that are happening underneath and then they rise, but there's
no head to pop like. You just got to live
with these things anyway. So when I changed, she said,
you'll probably see a difference with the bloating and your skin,
and it will. Let's just see what happens with Like
with your hair, hair started growing back. The blow was immediate,
(49:31):
like immediately the bloat gone. The skin it took a
little bit more time, but it started clearing up and
I didn't get anymore those I am the lucky person
sitting across from Miss Gallion right now. Your skin is absurd.
I don't even understand what's happening right now. It's like
I have to wear sunglasses because it's so glowy and stunning.
And this is diet, so we recommend so like people
(49:53):
who are dealing with major hormonal certainly hormonal like this
you think that if you could maybe talk to a
horn mortal specialists. Luckily, she has a book Alsa VITTI
v I T T I, and she's got websites books,
and she literally changed my life. Um you know, I'm
I'm on I'm on her book, you know, talking about
(50:14):
like how amazing this book is because it legit made
a massive difference, you know. And again like pay like
learning to pay attention to your body and what your
normal is. And if you come to that realization like
I did at at you know in my forties that
I have no idea what my normal is because I've
my body has never been I don't say it's never
been normal, but I didn't know what to look forward
(50:35):
to figure it out. I just thought, well, this is
what happened, just like very misinformed and very uneducated when
it comes to our own female bodies. It sucks. I
don't know why that is. It's a cultural thing, it's
a I don't know religiously. I mean, it's like a
lot of different things, but it's terrible. Well, I mean
and for younger women, right, if your periods are extremely
(50:56):
long or extremely painful, or extremely heavy or irregular, these
things should be these, there's some follow up questions you
need to ask your your o B or your your
primary care physician, or go to plant parenthood and and
ask for you know, you know, help, a lot of
low and no costs, you know, um plant parenthoods are
out there around the country, But ask follow up questions.
(51:17):
If the immediate response is birth control and you are
not actively trying to not have a baby, understand that
you're just masking whatever the issue actually is. And and
for a lot of us, that's enough, like we just
want this to stop whatever, go away. What I don't
want to do the work. But when you are, if
and when you are actually ready to have a baby,
(51:39):
understand that not treating whatever the actual root causes of
these irregular periods could factor into your fertility journey. So
it's better to at least have the information as young
as you possibly can know if it's manifesting itself at
a younger age, to at least know what's happening with
your body so you can make conscious, educated choices. And
(52:00):
it sounds like the I think this is my last
mental thing, but it also sounds like just from listening
to you talk for the last bit, I just feel
like there's a thing about asking follow up questions and
holding yourself accountable for demanding more and knowing more. And
then there's also this thing about getting over your own
shame and ego and things like that. And if you
(52:20):
tell a few people, they might know someone who can
help you. And that has been a motherhood thing for me,
Like whenever I suck at something or I don't understand something,
instead of just staying quiet, if I just bring it
up to a few people who I think I might
who think I think they might know better, they can
connect me to someone who does. And that's really the
thing we have to get over, is like using your
(52:41):
voice asking the questions, because it will most likely lead
you to someone who has the answers. It might not
be the first person you ask, it might not be
the third, but if you don't give up, they're going
to direct you to the right person. Right. And if
you're okay with sort of dismantling the mirage, right, if
you're okay to like allow yourself to be I love
any hash like that, dismantle that. If you allow yourself
(53:04):
to be be presented as anything less than perfect, people
will actually give you grace. People will extend that grace.
The same grace that you want, people will extend it
to you. And it's okay to not have everything retouched
or filtered or or the outfits don't match. If your
kid makes it through the day, it's a damn success.
(53:25):
They don't have to make it through the day with
perfect everything whatever, you know, like whatever. Like my husband
is like, are we gonna do anything with coughs hair?
I'm like, not today, probably not tomorrow either. I like
him the mom that doesn't brush herkids hair because he
hates it and he fights me and he cries, and
I'm like, I don't care. She loves it. But you
know what, I have not mastered the art of all
(53:45):
those damn freaking snaps. Like the zipper makes me feel
like I'm zipping up her skin the snaps, and I'm like, listen,
I got about two of the fourteen snaps. Um, how
about just you and this this diaper? At least then
I don't have to take the thing off to check
the stripe to see if you pee, Like like listen, yeah,
(54:05):
we're gonna keep the house at about seventy four degrees,
so you know, so when it's just me and mommy time.
We're all just kind of naked because mommy can't handle
the damn pajama or anything that requires buttons or snaps
or zippers. Well, this one's really easy again, you know
what's terrible? And I'm like, clearly I'm not in mensa
because I can't put my baby in. And also I'm
(54:26):
like really on set all like arthritis because my fingers
like aren't nimble enough to really handle all the baby clothes.
A little shaking, oh, for sure, Like and it's I
don't know if it's shaking from stress or just like
it's probably like I don't know what came first, the
shaking or the or my age or or my anxiety
(54:46):
about freaking backtime pajamas. Like it's impossible. Then when they
don't want to get dressed, is there anything else you
want to add before we say goodbye? You know what,
we're super conditioned to not center ourselves and our own stories,
and because anything less than giving everything, every part of
ourselves to other people, we're that self is bitch. We're
(55:10):
the bad mom, We're the bad wife, We're the bad friend.
When you don't give every piece of yourself to everyone else,
Whenever they feel like they need it. It is okay
to center yourself and your needs and advocate for yourself
and be the center of your own story and be
your best self for yourself so you can offer, in
reasonable doses as you see fit parts of you to
(55:34):
other people. We say in our family, you know, and
in our crew we all we got but that that
that includes the month in the mirror, like start with
you first. I love it so much for coming on
Katie's Crib. This was so special. I learned a ton.
I know our listeners did too. And you guys please
(55:56):
line up for Welcome to the Party. Yes, you can
pre order now. Pre order now. I will be doing
that for sure, and we will link to it on
Katie's Crib. Thank you so much. I want to say
thank you again to Gabrielle Union for coming on the
show and I'm going to take it with me. Give
yourself some grace. I'm saying that to myself and I'm
saying that to all you guys listening. Thank you so much.
(56:17):
Tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast Katie's Crib, follow
us on social channels at Katie's Crib, everywhere you get social,
and if you have any thoughts or questions or comments,
Please email me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.
I love you, guys. Katie's Crib is a production of
(56:42):
Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For
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1. Stuff You Missed in History Class
Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.