April 3, 2024 • 28 mins
Minnie questions Jameela Jamil, actor, activist, and podcaster. Jameela shares how a Nat King Cole song changed her idea of love, how breaking her back as a teenager led to the greatest year of her life, and why she will feel generally pretty good about herself as long as she can pee without help.
Listen to Minnie on Jameela's podcast, I Weigh with Jameela Jamil.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You know what I always wanted my whole life. I
always wanted my voice to sound like yours. I realized
that when you were talking. I was like, I was
just like, I've just loved your We always call it
a dirty laugh, which is so awful of the English
and sexist. My mother she was like, you have to
appear dis actress laugh. She was like, she's the dirtiest
laugh I've ever heard, and she introduced me to your laugh.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It is a dirty laugh. My dad and my mother
both had dirty laughs, so I've got the genetic coding
for filthy laugh rauble dirty. Yeah, Hello, I'm Mini driver.
I've always loved Proust's questionnaire. It was originally in nineteenth
century parlor game where players would ask each other thirty
(00:43):
five questions aimed at revealing the other player's true nature.
In asking different people the same set of questions, you
can make observations about which truths appear to be universal.
And it made me wonder, what if these questions were
just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be
revealed if I asked these questions as conversation starters. So
(01:04):
I adapted Pru's questionnaire and I wrote my own. Seven
questions that I personally think are pertinent to a person's story.
They are when and where were you happiest? What is
the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real
or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would you
most like answered? What person, place, or experience has shaped
(01:25):
you the most? What would be your last meal? And
can you tell me something in your life that's grown
out of a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group
of really remarkable people, ones that I am honored and
humbled to have had the chance to engage with. You
may not hear their answers to all seven of these questions.
We've whittled it down to which questions felt closest to
(01:48):
their experience, or the most surprising, or created the most
fertile ground to connect. My guest today is the actor,
activist and podcaster Jimi La Jamil. Jamila started out presenting
on UK television and radio and then found her way
onto the brilliant and extremely successful comedy The Good Place.
During the pandemic, she began a podcast called Iwey with
(02:11):
Jamila Jamil, which is a conversational female focused podcast exploring
body positivity racial inclusivity, and much more. The thing I
love best about Jamila is that she is a voice.
While most celebrities have a certain curated presentation of opinions
in these times of rampant cancelation, Jamila stands by her voice,
(02:31):
her advocacy of women and the need for changing the
way women are passed by society. She is unaffectedly, raw, funny,
and herself a rare force of nature in your life?
Can you tell me where and when you are happiest?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Oh? Okay, where and when was I happiest? It was
I think Thanksgiving and a friend photographed this moment, and
now I've got it for I could send it to you.
But I was cuddling on the sofa with my boyfriend
of nine years and our two dogs, and everything was
(03:12):
the most peaceful it's ever been in my life. I
am the most grown up I have ever been, thank God,
considering I am significantly older, and I had no worries
or problems in that moment. I was just surrounded by
everything I love. Everything was soft and loving and wonderful,
and I'm so glad that that moment is captured. And
I'm laughing hysterically in the photo and I can see
(03:35):
that it's genuine happiness. There's so many smiles I've done
for photographs on red carpets or at work or even
at other people's parties, and I can see in my
eyes that I'm faking it. And I would say, the
happiest moment in my life has just happened, and hopefully
it will lead to many more.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Oh, do you think there's like a pack mentality in
that that snuffle of dogs you?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, in a scrum. I think it's tribal.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, that feeling of like being in something and that
nothing could harm you, nothing could penetrate that, And it's
I find you can only be purely present with dogs
as well. Yeah, lovers and it's a different story, but
dogs they require complete presence.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It just like my happiness equates, I think genuinely to
my sort of dopamine and my quarter sole levels, you know,
quarter cell being the kind of stress hormone like dogs, cuddles, affection, laughter,
These things lower my quarter sole levels and they increase
my dopamine levels. And that I've started to look at
myself as a sort of neurochemical computer and now focus
(04:38):
only in every area of life of is it going
to bring me cortisol? Or is it going to bring
me dopamine? Because that's how I decide. That's how I make.
Almost every decision now is not based on how impressive
it's going to make me, or how thin I'm going
to become, or all the different stupid fucking metrics that
we have. I'm deciding everything based on the neural chemicals
(05:00):
it's going to release in my brain, because they're in
lies happiness.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I absolutely love that the chemical decisions. Is this going
to bring me cortisol? Is this going to really dopemine?
So I just had all my blood work done the
other day because things have felt kind of out of balance,
and it turns out that I am completely and utterly
negative DHA, which you might know, I don't know, balances
your adrenal system. So basically all I am doing is
(05:26):
pumping cortisol around my body. But my understanding is if
you don't have any DHA, which I think balances and calms,
that you're only going to be in fight or flight
panic mode, which is essentially, when something tricky happens, I
pull in every other tricky, awful thing and it turns
into a kind of panic sandwich, and it was really
interesting to go, Look, that might be part of my
(05:48):
mental makeup, but there is also a full blown chemical
reason behind that. And I love the notion of like encouraging.
Is this going to make me feel good or is
this going to make me feel stressed?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah. I had a blood test result come back yesterday
that showed that I still have low DHA, but I
didn't know what it was, and I thought to myself, God,
I'm not even aware of when my adrenals are activated
because I've been activated since I was born. Probably you know,
I've been so stressed for so long that I don't
really remember what peace feels like. So now when I
get kind of snapshots of it like I did.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, you've got a literal picture of that now.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, I'm getting it framed so we can remind me
to always seek out that moment.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
H I think it's a brilliant thing, just generally, to
be able to identify what increases a dopamine response and
what increases stress. It's not always possible to cut out
the stuff that is stressful, but I do think you
can focus on the stuff that is good and heads
towards that consciously or like on your weekend when you're
not in an office.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, you know, I've been having like a sort of
existential not breakdown, but break through, I would say in
the last year, we spoke about it on the phone,
you and I, where I was telling you that I've
like suddenly had this huge like what the fuck am
I doing? Why am I living somewhere so expensive? Why
am I working too hard and spending less time with
my dogs and my boyfriend and my friends. That moment
(07:10):
epitomized like me feeling like, Oh, I've fucking smashed it
in life, more than any award I've ever won, more
than any accolade I've ever had, more than any set
I've ever been on. That moment was just my like
this is my academy award, Like this is what I've
been striving towards, and now I'm like furiously chasing that
feeling where I'm so lucky to do the job that
(07:32):
I do. But the amount that people work and feel
encouraged to work, and the way that we have bastardized
the idea of discipline, but only discipline towards one thing,
and not discipline towards happiness and mental health and physical health.
I think it's just fucked. And so I've decided to
take that into my own hands and now seek pleasure
not as an indulgence but as a necessity.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Hmm oh, I like that. I'm going to needle point
that on a pillow.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, especially as women, we're taught that everything is like,
you're lucky. If you enjoy it, you're lucky. If you
have a good time, you're lucky. If you come during sex,
it's like, oh, what a king, what a god? I
got to also have an orgasm, Like, it's amazing. The
way that it has been like somehow rebranded as an indulgence,
as an extra, as an if you're lucky, that's ridiculous.
(08:20):
We're sort of shamed out of the pursuit of any
kind of pleasure. And so that's why I've decided to
completely shift my adventure.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh God, what a great question as a pathetic answer
to say, my dog, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
No, it's not pathetic. It is not. Your answers are
not pathetic. They are your answers. And this is a
judgment free zone.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Because the reason I say this is because my firstborn dog,
Baryld and I have a spiritual connection. I don't care
what anyone says. We have known each other in other lives.
He just gets me. I get him. We have these
long staring sessions between the two of us, and dogs
don't really like to make eye contact with people, but
(09:18):
he just wants to stare in my eyes. And I believe,
which shows that I'm clearly still crazy that we are
telepathically communicating, like I really and this is the sort
of thing that will be like clipped and then that'll
be a headline as if I'm completely serious. Obviously, my
boyfriend that is a meaningful and extraordinary love. But this
dog and human relationship is just completely ridiculous. I can't
(09:42):
explain it. I think it's the fact that something can
be a different species to me and I don't get
anything back from him. Right He shits and I pick
it up, and all the laborer is coming from my end.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
We talk about their unconditional love for us, and I'm like, Okay, well,
I'm the one putting in all of the work here
and doing all of the feeding and paying the rent
and doing everything. But oh God, the way that I
could love something that is a different species for me
has really shocked me because I was not an animal
person until I had him. Oh, writ at all, not
at all, not interested, didn't give a shit.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So it was just him, just him specifically, and how
did you find him?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
He was gifted to me during the pandemic by someone
who knew of this doggie who needed a home, and
so he was given to me.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
But why do they think of you the legendary animal
dislike her?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I wasn't an animal dislike her. I was just indifferent.
But I think that I so many questions because I'd
had a nervous breakdown. All right, Minnie, I had.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
A nice break and they wanted to make you feel
w They were like a dog. Let's see if this
will help, Jamina, Let's see.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And also to be like perfectly candid. My boyfriend also
was thinking that maybe we should have children together, which
I don't know why you would ever think that after
spending time with me, but he did. And I was
very against the idea of having children, and I think
he wanted to see if it would bring out something
maternal in me, so I think that was also part
of the agenda. But then having a dog was so
(11:11):
hard that he didn't want children anymore after having a dog.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Oh my god. So it actually worked out for everybody.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I win everything. I am God's favorite. It all worked
out in my favorite, and I got this extraordinary puppy
that I completely fell in love with.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So it was a puppy when you got it. That's
why it was so hard, because it is a bit
like having a newborn.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, it really is. But my relationship with my dog
is the most unexpected, strange and brilliant love. And I
really struggle with being perceived. I don't like to be perceived,
which is so ridiculous because I've put myself in an
industry where I'm constantly subjected to perception and it is
my fault. Just to be clear, I have subjected myself
to constant scrutiny and perception, and yet I hate it,
(11:53):
and I don't want to be looked at and I
don't want to be observed. And what I feel about
the dog is that he's just never they're judging, because
he's not. He doesn't care what I look like. He
doesn't know what I'm supposed to look like. I'm not
supposed to look like. He doesn't care and I think,
or if I'm clumsy, or if I'm tired and boring,
there's still a feeling in any romantic relationship or friendship
(12:13):
of expectation that I don't feel with the dog. And
it doesn't mean that I don't show up for him,
but it just means that the markers are very different.
You know, I still have to be some sort of
sexy and some sort of attractive in front of my partner.
I don't have to do that in front of a dog.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Listen, you don't have to convince me that it is
one of the greatest loves of all with the dog.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, it could never be a fictional one, because I
don't feel like I've yet found a fictional representation of
what I consider to be a love that I relate
to HM. You know, like my idea of love is
so the opposite of what Hollywood's sold to us as
romance and love, you know, and I think it really
fucked us up and gave us really unhealthy ideals. And
you know, I thought I wasn't in love with my
(12:52):
boyfriend because I had no adrenaline, you know, I had
no fight or flight, I had no panic. My appetite
was fine, I was sleeping well. And then I heard
this Nat King Cole song that I then played to
him because he felt the same way. We just kept
on being like, are we just friends who are shagging?
We couldn't understand what this bond was or why we
didn't want to leave each other side, but we also
didn't feel ostensibly quote unquote in love with each other.
(13:14):
And then I played in this song by Nat King
Cole called This Can't Be Love, in which he sings
about this exact phenomena of like, well, this can't be
love because I feel too well, I'm eating I'm sleeping great.
I mean, I clearly like you. I love to be
where you are, but like, I'm not in love with
you because it's ridiculous. I don't feel panicked all the time.
And that song was whistleblowing that we are being fed
(13:36):
romantic bullshit and that actually real love. And I'm more
in love with James now than I was nine years ago.
And I would have missed out on that fucking relationship
because I was trained to think that the person who
gives me anxiety.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's the one who you actually love.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
That my body is telling me to fucking run away
from I'm going, oh wow, this is the one.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Ah, this is it?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, this is it A ruined me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So I don't believe on the bad boy. I believe
in the nice person and I want to be with
someone who makes me feel calm.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I couldn't agree with you more. I have found exactly
the same person in that dynamic cotonit and it was
a little bit later, but it's fucking boring to watch.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So that's why no one would ever want to watch
this love story about me and James who just had
a really lovely, safe time forever.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, I want to ask you really quickly, just going
back to your dog? Oh yeah, not that I don't
love James, but I want to get back to your dog.
Have you ever thought of getting those communication paths where
you know, they hit a thing like mum walk now, bitch.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
No, only because I worry it would break this idea
I have that he loves me too, because what if
he's just like cunt cunt, cunt cunt, you look ugly today?
And then I realized he is judging me.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Don't you understand? You create the communication had yourself, and
it just says bliss love.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Now that's too much. No, that's too that's too control. No,
I can't monitor what he's saying. I would love to.
I always think it would be really funny. Also, my
dog wouldn't learn. I was told by a trainer that
he has a low desire to please, and I was like,
that's my baby. He got that from me.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
By the way, I have a similar dog. He's an
absolute ass. I love him pieces he actually has very
few dog like qualities. Yeah, I can't wait to meet that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And my other dog is amazing as well. But I'm
just saying I've known baroled for much longer.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Barreled barrel like Harold.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
But I have a friend who's English and so posh
that she thought what I wanted to call him Barry
because that's my favorite name. She was like, oh Barry
is that short for barreled?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well it is. Now what question would you most like? Answered? Oh?
Fuck me?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Does anyone enjoy reverse cowgirl?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You know what, I'm going to get a lot of
very interesting letters.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Now because I know the people I think who are
receiving it do, but I mean enjoy doing it? Does
anyone enjoy doing reverth cowgirl. Maybe there are other questions
in life.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
There are other questions. I mean, I'll take that as
a very practical one.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And I'm sure what kind of other questions have you had?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You know, what happens when you die? Oh? Yeah, are
they aliens?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We can do this again? No, no, we can do
this again. I hadn't pre read any questions. I'm sorry, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Do you mean you don't understand? That is a great,
great answer. And the silence afterwards is only because I've
basically been bludgeoned with the regular answers. And that really
is a very good question. And I look forward to
people saying yes, I enjoy it. But then why we
need a why? I don't want to know.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Just yes or no.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Maybe because they have a really nice bottom and they
love it being looked at.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Okay, well that's not me, you know. And I also
really hate exercise. I hate bouncing up and down. I
hate moving. And then also like the looking back are
you supposed to do it as well?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It sort of hurts you, particularly after the age of fifty,
like looking back over your shoulders like ow and bouncing
this is a chiropractic nightmare. What is the quality you
like least about yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Oh, the quality I like least about myself. I'm quite
rude and I'm working on it. Okay, I don't mean
to hurt people's feelings, but I'm incredibly candid and I
see in negatives. So when I listen to something, when
I look at something, when I hear something, I can
(17:53):
only first identify what's wrong. So I have such a
critical brain, but not really in a judgmental way, justin
that's all I can see. I noticed these problems and
they need to be addressed, and then I can relax
and enjoy the rest of the art. And my boyfriend
has been teaching me about the shit sandwich, whereas I
(18:14):
was doing shit on toast, which is where you say
something not nice first and then you say you at
the end cushing it with something lovely. So I've learned
to override my instinct and say something, find something nice
to say first, and then deliver my critique. But I
really need to work on my delivery.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But here's the thing. I think that's really interesting that
you know really clearly that there is this thing that
you want to work on. I think it's good that
you know that I do exactly the same thing I've
had to teach myself. You know, it's funny with directors
when you're really in it and you've done what you
considered to be a good or an interesting or at
least a good place to start take and they come
in and they go, that was perfect. That was perfect.
(18:57):
Now you need to do this and this. My brain
has been miswired because being told something is perfect, but
then being told that we have to carry on and
do it is so not helpful. It's so much better.
For example, if a director comes in and goes, I
really loved the way you made me listen to this
section of that speech. I'd really love to feel the
(19:19):
same way at the end of that the end of
the scene, Like that is so helpful and so brilliant
because it's not unclear. Yeah, I like that. Your boyfriend
has said very clearly, you need to work on your
shit sandwhich not your shit on toast. Yeah it's a
vile analogy, but also really.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
It is graphic, but it has really really helped me.
And everyone said, I've come a really long way in
the last few years.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Everyone everyone says, I'm so much better.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, I called an actor turned sort of pundit of
politician type figure. I said publicly that he looked like
a freshly wanked cock. Oh my god, didn't I did
think I did personal attack. Now, he is not a
nice man. He says horrible, hateful things, right, but I
just lowered myself to his level and then some because
(20:09):
I delivered what was not It's not not funny.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
It's not not funny, and it might also not be
not true. However, that is subjective. Because the wanked cock
is in the eye of the beholder. It's what I've learned.
And that's the clip from this podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well that's also now another thing to get needle pointed
on a pillow. Yeah, the wanked cock is in the
eye of the beholder.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
But either way, why say it like that? It didn't
do me any favors in the long run.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
By the way, here's me now immediately giving you advice.
I want to read that sentence in a book. I
don't want you to be attacked for saying that, but
me reading that in a book makes me laugh so uncontrollably.
And you have such a brilliant turn of phrase. I
do think that perhaps that is the distance that you
are going to require. Is that you can put all
(21:02):
those thoughts down, then an editor can go through and go, well,
I'm not tethering that to an actual person, but that's
brilliant observation about a human.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, well, there you go. I think he was being
mean about fat people or something, and I wanted to
be like, who are you to criticize the way that
anyone looks? But then I'm still doing it, I'm still participating.
So growing up a little bit late, but I was
to be fair crazy, So I think that that is
a slight get out of jail free cut as not.
But I really was crazy for a really long time.
(21:31):
And because I was famous, nobody told me. And so
I was a little bit late to the development game.
And I'm getting there and I think I'm making up
good time. Well here we are, but I'm trying to
get to a better place before I turn forty.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Great, you've got a year in your life. What person, place,
or experience most altered your life?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Oh, person, place, or experience. I've got two good ones.
Am I only allowed to choose one?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Now you can tell us both and then we'll choose
which one's the first. Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That feels good.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I was hit by car at seventeen, just before I
was seventeen, and I broke my back and it completely
changed my life for the obvious reasons because it interrupted
my life, but also it meant that I had this
sense of perspective for the rest of my existence that
has been unshakable. That I do not sweat the small stuff.
(22:46):
And there's a certain extent to which I allow myself
to be neurotic, but generally I have a very strong
and overwhelming idea that essentially everything's going to be okay.
Like my metric is that as long as I can
peel my own, I've smashed it. And so it's given
me a very simple metric to meet my whole life
where I didn't need to impress anyone particularly, I didn't
need to do anything extraordinary. I just wanted to be
(23:08):
able to pee on my own. And it has led
to being in an industry that can really devastate people
because of the expectation and given me a fairly level head.
I was hit by one car into another car. Wow,
you know, it's just like flipping around all over the
road and Hamstead like a pancake. And I survived, which
(23:30):
is a miracle, and it just reframed the rest of
my life. It made me very unafraid of failure, and
it made me feel very obsessive about making them most
of everything. And so that doesn't make me a great adventurer.
You know, I haven't climbed mountains, et cetera. Obviously, my
attitude to reverse cowgirl sort of sets us up for
not a very literally adventurous mentality. But I want to
(23:54):
just fucking soak up people and life and food and experiences.
I think that I owe that to that very early
cluster fuck that really it really went down like a
fucking barrel of shit. But that was fine. I would
not be the woman I am today if it were
not for that time. It was also an extraordinary year
(24:14):
and I was so happy because I was on morphine,
which is heroin really, and I was watching television all
day and it was the golden years of film and TV,
and I was eating ice cream all day, because when
you're completely fucked, everyone just brings you comfort food. So
it was thrilling. When people go like, oh, I'm so sorry,
(24:35):
I'm always like it was the greatest year of my life.
So that is my main defining.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
One okay, So what would be your last meal?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
My last meal would be chops and chips.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
What kind of chops?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Poor called lamb lamb chops, lammers, lammers, chops and chips,
but with.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Light mint sauce and ketch up with the chips.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
No, I hate ketch up. Hate ketchup. I despise it,
despise a condiment that isn't other than mustard. Mustard has
managed to seep through. But I don't like anything that's
a big sauce, So chops and chips. Is there a
place that you have this or is this something you make?
Because I don't think I've ever seen lamb chops. I
guess I have seen lamb chops on the menu where
(25:24):
you could order a side of fries. No, I horrify
every restaurant that has them with my order. I guess
it's like a Greek restaurant who has chips available for
the Neanderthal English people who come in and don't want
their delicious lemon potatoes. But I am said Neanderthal, and
so like, I just fucking love chips. I need to
eat them with everything.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I love chips too.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I have chips with every meal that I can. They
are a key part of my diet because when I
had anorexia, I never ate chips, and so now I
am determined to make up for some lost time within
you know, reason, so that I can make sure I
give myself those things that I had demonized. But as
(26:05):
a child, my grandparents used to take me because I
grew up in Spain, and so we used to go
up into the mountains and there would be a special
restaurant that had chops and chips, lamb chops and chips,
And there's just something about that combination that reminds me
of a really happy, simple time in my life. It's
a simple meal and it's just delicious and salty. So
(26:29):
that's my favorite. That's my favorite thing.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, why don't even eat me? And that sounds good
to me.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's fucking wonderful. I know I should be a vegetarian
or a vegan.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
You should not should No, no, no no. I won't have.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
People say I'm a bad feminist because I.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Know we're not here to like you literally just said
this thing that not only delights you in terms of
the food, but the memory of it with your grandparents
and the mountains in Spain, This beautiful image.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And it wasn't even them they were horrible people.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
It was just they were You know, what I'm learning
about you is that you, more than maybe anyone I've
ever met, you can create the most beautiful image, and
then it's almost that you can't help but dows it
with the most awful bias.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
You have to talk to James.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You're so incredibly articulate, and you create these images that
are so beautiful, but then it's almost like you can't
just allow it to be. You have to dowse it
with something painful.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
It's with the truth. It was just a happy time
in my life, right, It was a happy time in
my life. I loved living in Spain. It was a
simple existence. It was sunshine and sandy beaches, and I
didn't know anything about politics or you know, sexual violence,
or I had no self consciousness. I thought having a
big belly was the most extraordinary thing on earth, Like
(27:49):
I would push it out as much as possible. Like
it was just such a pure time. And that taste
immediately takes me back to that pure mindset of I
have no problems, and life is beach.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
It's pristian, it's lovely.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, life is Beach.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Life is chop.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, Life is Beach and Chops and Chips.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me. Mini Driver
Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support
from Jennifer Bassett, Zoey Denkler and Ali Perry. The theme
music is also by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman.
Special thanks to Jim Nicolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, A,
(28:35):
Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette wolf A, w
kp R, Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan Levoy and Mangesh
At Ticketdore
You know what I always wanted my whole life. I
always wanted my voice to sound like yours. I realized
that when you were talking. I was like, I was
just like, I've just loved your We always call it
a dirty laugh, which is so awful of the English
and sexist. My mother she was like, you have to
appear dis actress laugh. She was like, she's the dirtiest
laugh I've ever heard, and she introduced me to your laugh.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It is a dirty laugh. My dad and my mother
both had dirty laughs, so I've got the genetic coding
for filthy laugh rauble dirty. Yeah, Hello, I'm Mini driver.
I've always loved Proust's questionnaire. It was originally in nineteenth
century parlor game where players would ask each other thirty
(00:43):
five questions aimed at revealing the other player's true nature.
In asking different people the same set of questions, you
can make observations about which truths appear to be universal.
And it made me wonder, what if these questions were
just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be
revealed if I asked these questions as conversation starters. So
(01:04):
I adapted Pru's questionnaire and I wrote my own. Seven
questions that I personally think are pertinent to a person's story.
They are when and where were you happiest? What is
the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real
or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would you
most like answered? What person, place, or experience has shaped
(01:25):
you the most? What would be your last meal? And
can you tell me something in your life that's grown
out of a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group
of really remarkable people, ones that I am honored and
humbled to have had the chance to engage with. You
may not hear their answers to all seven of these questions.
We've whittled it down to which questions felt closest to
(01:48):
their experience, or the most surprising, or created the most
fertile ground to connect. My guest today is the actor,
activist and podcaster Jimi La Jamil. Jamila started out presenting
on UK television and radio and then found her way
onto the brilliant and extremely successful comedy The Good Place.
During the pandemic, she began a podcast called Iwey with
(02:11):
Jamila Jamil, which is a conversational female focused podcast exploring
body positivity racial inclusivity, and much more. The thing I
love best about Jamila is that she is a voice.
While most celebrities have a certain curated presentation of opinions
in these times of rampant cancelation, Jamila stands by her voice,
(02:31):
her advocacy of women and the need for changing the
way women are passed by society. She is unaffectedly, raw, funny,
and herself a rare force of nature in your life?
Can you tell me where and when you are happiest?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Oh? Okay, where and when was I happiest? It was
I think Thanksgiving and a friend photographed this moment, and
now I've got it for I could send it to you.
But I was cuddling on the sofa with my boyfriend
of nine years and our two dogs, and everything was
(03:12):
the most peaceful it's ever been in my life. I
am the most grown up I have ever been, thank God,
considering I am significantly older, and I had no worries
or problems in that moment. I was just surrounded by
everything I love. Everything was soft and loving and wonderful,
and I'm so glad that that moment is captured. And
I'm laughing hysterically in the photo and I can see
(03:35):
that it's genuine happiness. There's so many smiles I've done
for photographs on red carpets or at work or even
at other people's parties, and I can see in my
eyes that I'm faking it. And I would say, the
happiest moment in my life has just happened, and hopefully
it will lead to many more.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Oh, do you think there's like a pack mentality in
that that snuffle of dogs you?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, in a scrum. I think it's tribal.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, that feeling of like being in something and that
nothing could harm you, nothing could penetrate that, And it's
I find you can only be purely present with dogs
as well. Yeah, lovers and it's a different story, but
dogs they require complete presence.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It just like my happiness equates, I think genuinely to
my sort of dopamine and my quarter sole levels, you know,
quarter cell being the kind of stress hormone like dogs, cuddles, affection, laughter,
These things lower my quarter sole levels and they increase
my dopamine levels. And that I've started to look at
myself as a sort of neurochemical computer and now focus
(04:38):
only in every area of life of is it going
to bring me cortisol? Or is it going to bring
me dopamine? Because that's how I decide. That's how I make.
Almost every decision now is not based on how impressive
it's going to make me, or how thin I'm going
to become, or all the different stupid fucking metrics that
we have. I'm deciding everything based on the neural chemicals
(05:00):
it's going to release in my brain, because they're in
lies happiness.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I absolutely love that the chemical decisions. Is this going
to bring me cortisol? Is this going to really dopemine?
So I just had all my blood work done the
other day because things have felt kind of out of balance,
and it turns out that I am completely and utterly
negative DHA, which you might know, I don't know, balances
your adrenal system. So basically all I am doing is
(05:26):
pumping cortisol around my body. But my understanding is if
you don't have any DHA, which I think balances and calms,
that you're only going to be in fight or flight
panic mode, which is essentially, when something tricky happens, I
pull in every other tricky, awful thing and it turns
into a kind of panic sandwich, and it was really
interesting to go, Look, that might be part of my
(05:48):
mental makeup, but there is also a full blown chemical
reason behind that. And I love the notion of like encouraging.
Is this going to make me feel good or is
this going to make me feel stressed?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah. I had a blood test result come back yesterday
that showed that I still have low DHA, but I
didn't know what it was, and I thought to myself, God,
I'm not even aware of when my adrenals are activated
because I've been activated since I was born. Probably you know,
I've been so stressed for so long that I don't
really remember what peace feels like. So now when I
get kind of snapshots of it like I did.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, you've got a literal picture of that now.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, I'm getting it framed so we can remind me
to always seek out that moment.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
H I think it's a brilliant thing, just generally, to
be able to identify what increases a dopamine response and
what increases stress. It's not always possible to cut out
the stuff that is stressful, but I do think you
can focus on the stuff that is good and heads
towards that consciously or like on your weekend when you're
not in an office.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, you know, I've been having like a sort of
existential not breakdown, but break through, I would say in
the last year, we spoke about it on the phone,
you and I, where I was telling you that I've
like suddenly had this huge like what the fuck am
I doing? Why am I living somewhere so expensive? Why
am I working too hard and spending less time with
my dogs and my boyfriend and my friends. That moment
(07:10):
epitomized like me feeling like, Oh, I've fucking smashed it
in life, more than any award I've ever won, more
than any accolade I've ever had, more than any set
I've ever been on. That moment was just my like
this is my academy award, Like this is what I've
been striving towards, and now I'm like furiously chasing that
feeling where I'm so lucky to do the job that
(07:32):
I do. But the amount that people work and feel
encouraged to work, and the way that we have bastardized
the idea of discipline, but only discipline towards one thing,
and not discipline towards happiness and mental health and physical health.
I think it's just fucked. And so I've decided to
take that into my own hands and now seek pleasure
not as an indulgence but as a necessity.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Hmm oh, I like that. I'm going to needle point
that on a pillow.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, especially as women, we're taught that everything is like,
you're lucky. If you enjoy it, you're lucky. If you
have a good time, you're lucky. If you come during sex,
it's like, oh, what a king, what a god? I
got to also have an orgasm, Like, it's amazing. The
way that it has been like somehow rebranded as an indulgence,
as an extra, as an if you're lucky, that's ridiculous.
(08:20):
We're sort of shamed out of the pursuit of any
kind of pleasure. And so that's why I've decided to
completely shift my adventure.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh God, what a great question as a pathetic answer
to say, my dog, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
No, it's not pathetic. It is not. Your answers are
not pathetic. They are your answers. And this is a
judgment free zone.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Because the reason I say this is because my firstborn dog,
Baryld and I have a spiritual connection. I don't care
what anyone says. We have known each other in other lives.
He just gets me. I get him. We have these
long staring sessions between the two of us, and dogs
don't really like to make eye contact with people, but
(09:18):
he just wants to stare in my eyes. And I believe,
which shows that I'm clearly still crazy that we are
telepathically communicating, like I really and this is the sort
of thing that will be like clipped and then that'll
be a headline as if I'm completely serious. Obviously, my
boyfriend that is a meaningful and extraordinary love. But this
dog and human relationship is just completely ridiculous. I can't
(09:42):
explain it. I think it's the fact that something can
be a different species to me and I don't get
anything back from him. Right He shits and I pick
it up, and all the laborer is coming from my end.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
We talk about their unconditional love for us, and I'm like, Okay, well,
I'm the one putting in all of the work here
and doing all of the feeding and paying the rent
and doing everything. But oh God, the way that I
could love something that is a different species for me
has really shocked me because I was not an animal
person until I had him. Oh, writ at all, not
at all, not interested, didn't give a shit.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So it was just him, just him specifically, and how
did you find him?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
He was gifted to me during the pandemic by someone
who knew of this doggie who needed a home, and
so he was given to me.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
But why do they think of you the legendary animal
dislike her?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I wasn't an animal dislike her. I was just indifferent.
But I think that I so many questions because I'd
had a nervous breakdown. All right, Minnie, I had.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
A nice break and they wanted to make you feel
w They were like a dog. Let's see if this
will help, Jamina, Let's see.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And also to be like perfectly candid. My boyfriend also
was thinking that maybe we should have children together, which
I don't know why you would ever think that after
spending time with me, but he did. And I was
very against the idea of having children, and I think
he wanted to see if it would bring out something
maternal in me, so I think that was also part
of the agenda. But then having a dog was so
(11:11):
hard that he didn't want children anymore after having a dog.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Oh my god. So it actually worked out for everybody.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I win everything. I am God's favorite. It all worked
out in my favorite, and I got this extraordinary puppy
that I completely fell in love with.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
So it was a puppy when you got it. That's
why it was so hard, because it is a bit
like having a newborn.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, it really is. But my relationship with my dog
is the most unexpected, strange and brilliant love. And I
really struggle with being perceived. I don't like to be perceived,
which is so ridiculous because I've put myself in an
industry where I'm constantly subjected to perception and it is
my fault. Just to be clear, I have subjected myself
to constant scrutiny and perception, and yet I hate it,
(11:53):
and I don't want to be looked at and I
don't want to be observed. And what I feel about
the dog is that he's just never they're judging, because
he's not. He doesn't care what I look like. He
doesn't know what I'm supposed to look like. I'm not
supposed to look like. He doesn't care and I think,
or if I'm clumsy, or if I'm tired and boring,
there's still a feeling in any romantic relationship or friendship
(12:13):
of expectation that I don't feel with the dog. And
it doesn't mean that I don't show up for him,
but it just means that the markers are very different.
You know, I still have to be some sort of
sexy and some sort of attractive in front of my partner.
I don't have to do that in front of a dog.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Listen, you don't have to convince me that it is
one of the greatest loves of all with the dog.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, it could never be a fictional one, because I
don't feel like I've yet found a fictional representation of
what I consider to be a love that I relate
to HM. You know, like my idea of love is
so the opposite of what Hollywood's sold to us as
romance and love, you know, and I think it really
fucked us up and gave us really unhealthy ideals. And
you know, I thought I wasn't in love with my
(12:52):
boyfriend because I had no adrenaline, you know, I had
no fight or flight, I had no panic. My appetite
was fine, I was sleeping well. And then I heard
this Nat King Cole song that I then played to
him because he felt the same way. We just kept
on being like, are we just friends who are shagging?
We couldn't understand what this bond was or why we
didn't want to leave each other side, but we also
didn't feel ostensibly quote unquote in love with each other.
(13:14):
And then I played in this song by Nat King
Cole called This Can't Be Love, in which he sings
about this exact phenomena of like, well, this can't be
love because I feel too well, I'm eating I'm sleeping great.
I mean, I clearly like you. I love to be
where you are, but like, I'm not in love with
you because it's ridiculous. I don't feel panicked all the time.
And that song was whistleblowing that we are being fed
(13:36):
romantic bullshit and that actually real love. And I'm more
in love with James now than I was nine years ago.
And I would have missed out on that fucking relationship
because I was trained to think that the person who
gives me anxiety.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's the one who you actually love.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
That my body is telling me to fucking run away
from I'm going, oh wow, this is the one.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Ah, this is it?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, this is it A ruined me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, this is exactly what I meant. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So I don't believe on the bad boy. I believe
in the nice person and I want to be with
someone who makes me feel calm.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I couldn't agree with you more. I have found exactly
the same person in that dynamic cotonit and it was
a little bit later, but it's fucking boring to watch.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So that's why no one would ever want to watch
this love story about me and James who just had
a really lovely, safe time forever.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, I want to ask you really quickly, just going
back to your dog? Oh yeah, not that I don't
love James, but I want to get back to your dog.
Have you ever thought of getting those communication paths where
you know, they hit a thing like mum walk now, bitch.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
No, only because I worry it would break this idea
I have that he loves me too, because what if
he's just like cunt cunt, cunt cunt, you look ugly today?
And then I realized he is judging me.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Don't you understand? You create the communication had yourself, and
it just says bliss love.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Now that's too much. No, that's too that's too control. No,
I can't monitor what he's saying. I would love to.
I always think it would be really funny. Also, my
dog wouldn't learn. I was told by a trainer that
he has a low desire to please, and I was like,
that's my baby. He got that from me.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
By the way, I have a similar dog. He's an
absolute ass. I love him pieces he actually has very
few dog like qualities. Yeah, I can't wait to meet that.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And my other dog is amazing as well. But I'm
just saying I've known baroled for much longer.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Barreled barrel like Harold.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
But I have a friend who's English and so posh
that she thought what I wanted to call him Barry
because that's my favorite name. She was like, oh Barry
is that short for barreled?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well it is. Now what question would you most like? Answered? Oh?
Fuck me?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Does anyone enjoy reverse cowgirl?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You know what, I'm going to get a lot of
very interesting letters.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Now because I know the people I think who are
receiving it do, but I mean enjoy doing it? Does
anyone enjoy doing reverth cowgirl. Maybe there are other questions
in life.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
There are other questions. I mean, I'll take that as
a very practical one.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And I'm sure what kind of other questions have you had?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You know, what happens when you die? Oh? Yeah, are
they aliens?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We can do this again? No, no, we can do
this again. I hadn't pre read any questions. I'm sorry, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Do you mean you don't understand? That is a great,
great answer. And the silence afterwards is only because I've
basically been bludgeoned with the regular answers. And that really
is a very good question. And I look forward to
people saying yes, I enjoy it. But then why we
need a why? I don't want to know.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Just yes or no.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Maybe because they have a really nice bottom and they
love it being looked at.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Okay, well that's not me, you know. And I also
really hate exercise. I hate bouncing up and down. I
hate moving. And then also like the looking back are
you supposed to do it as well?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It sort of hurts you, particularly after the age of fifty,
like looking back over your shoulders like ow and bouncing
this is a chiropractic nightmare. What is the quality you
like least about yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Oh, the quality I like least about myself. I'm quite
rude and I'm working on it. Okay, I don't mean
to hurt people's feelings, but I'm incredibly candid and I
see in negatives. So when I listen to something, when
I look at something, when I hear something, I can
(17:53):
only first identify what's wrong. So I have such a
critical brain, but not really in a judgmental way, justin
that's all I can see. I noticed these problems and
they need to be addressed, and then I can relax
and enjoy the rest of the art. And my boyfriend
has been teaching me about the shit sandwich, whereas I
(18:14):
was doing shit on toast, which is where you say
something not nice first and then you say you at
the end cushing it with something lovely. So I've learned
to override my instinct and say something, find something nice
to say first, and then deliver my critique. But I
really need to work on my delivery.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But here's the thing. I think that's really interesting that
you know really clearly that there is this thing that
you want to work on. I think it's good that
you know that I do exactly the same thing I've
had to teach myself. You know, it's funny with directors
when you're really in it and you've done what you
considered to be a good or an interesting or at
least a good place to start take and they come
in and they go, that was perfect. That was perfect.
(18:57):
Now you need to do this and this. My brain
has been miswired because being told something is perfect, but
then being told that we have to carry on and
do it is so not helpful. It's so much better.
For example, if a director comes in and goes, I
really loved the way you made me listen to this
section of that speech. I'd really love to feel the
(19:19):
same way at the end of that the end of
the scene, Like that is so helpful and so brilliant
because it's not unclear. Yeah, I like that. Your boyfriend
has said very clearly, you need to work on your
shit sandwhich not your shit on toast. Yeah it's a
vile analogy, but also really.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
It is graphic, but it has really really helped me.
And everyone said, I've come a really long way in
the last few years.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Everyone everyone says, I'm so much better.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, I called an actor turned sort of pundit of
politician type figure. I said publicly that he looked like
a freshly wanked cock. Oh my god, didn't I did
think I did personal attack. Now, he is not a
nice man. He says horrible, hateful things, right, but I
just lowered myself to his level and then some because
(20:09):
I delivered what was not It's not not funny.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
It's not not funny, and it might also not be
not true. However, that is subjective. Because the wanked cock
is in the eye of the beholder. It's what I've learned.
And that's the clip from this podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well that's also now another thing to get needle pointed
on a pillow. Yeah, the wanked cock is in the
eye of the beholder.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
But either way, why say it like that? It didn't
do me any favors in the long run.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
By the way, here's me now immediately giving you advice.
I want to read that sentence in a book. I
don't want you to be attacked for saying that, but
me reading that in a book makes me laugh so uncontrollably.
And you have such a brilliant turn of phrase. I
do think that perhaps that is the distance that you
are going to require. Is that you can put all
(21:02):
those thoughts down, then an editor can go through and go, well,
I'm not tethering that to an actual person, but that's
brilliant observation about a human.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, well, there you go. I think he was being
mean about fat people or something, and I wanted to
be like, who are you to criticize the way that
anyone looks? But then I'm still doing it, I'm still participating.
So growing up a little bit late, but I was
to be fair crazy, So I think that that is
a slight get out of jail free cut as not.
But I really was crazy for a really long time.
(21:31):
And because I was famous, nobody told me. And so
I was a little bit late to the development game.
And I'm getting there and I think I'm making up
good time. Well here we are, but I'm trying to
get to a better place before I turn forty.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Great, you've got a year in your life. What person, place,
or experience most altered your life?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Oh, person, place, or experience. I've got two good ones.
Am I only allowed to choose one?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Now you can tell us both and then we'll choose
which one's the first. Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That feels good.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I was hit by car at seventeen, just before I
was seventeen, and I broke my back and it completely
changed my life for the obvious reasons because it interrupted
my life, but also it meant that I had this
sense of perspective for the rest of my existence that
has been unshakable. That I do not sweat the small stuff.
(22:46):
And there's a certain extent to which I allow myself
to be neurotic, but generally I have a very strong
and overwhelming idea that essentially everything's going to be okay.
Like my metric is that as long as I can
peel my own, I've smashed it. And so it's given
me a very simple metric to meet my whole life
where I didn't need to impress anyone particularly, I didn't
need to do anything extraordinary. I just wanted to be
(23:08):
able to pee on my own. And it has led
to being in an industry that can really devastate people
because of the expectation and given me a fairly level head.
I was hit by one car into another car. Wow,
you know, it's just like flipping around all over the
road and Hamstead like a pancake. And I survived, which
(23:30):
is a miracle, and it just reframed the rest of
my life. It made me very unafraid of failure, and
it made me feel very obsessive about making them most
of everything. And so that doesn't make me a great adventurer.
You know, I haven't climbed mountains, et cetera. Obviously, my
attitude to reverse cowgirl sort of sets us up for
not a very literally adventurous mentality. But I want to
(23:54):
just fucking soak up people and life and food and experiences.
I think that I owe that to that very early
cluster fuck that really it really went down like a
fucking barrel of shit. But that was fine. I would
not be the woman I am today if it were
not for that time. It was also an extraordinary year
(24:14):
and I was so happy because I was on morphine,
which is heroin really, and I was watching television all
day and it was the golden years of film and TV,
and I was eating ice cream all day, because when
you're completely fucked, everyone just brings you comfort food. So
it was thrilling. When people go like, oh, I'm so sorry,
(24:35):
I'm always like it was the greatest year of my life.
So that is my main defining.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
One okay, So what would be your last meal?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
My last meal would be chops and chips.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
What kind of chops?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Poor called lamb lamb chops, lammers, lammers, chops and chips,
but with.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Light mint sauce and ketch up with the chips.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
No, I hate ketch up. Hate ketchup. I despise it,
despise a condiment that isn't other than mustard. Mustard has
managed to seep through. But I don't like anything that's
a big sauce, So chops and chips. Is there a
place that you have this or is this something you make?
Because I don't think I've ever seen lamb chops. I
guess I have seen lamb chops on the menu where
(25:24):
you could order a side of fries. No, I horrify
every restaurant that has them with my order. I guess
it's like a Greek restaurant who has chips available for
the Neanderthal English people who come in and don't want
their delicious lemon potatoes. But I am said Neanderthal, and
so like, I just fucking love chips. I need to
eat them with everything.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I love chips too.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I have chips with every meal that I can. They
are a key part of my diet because when I
had anorexia, I never ate chips, and so now I
am determined to make up for some lost time within
you know, reason, so that I can make sure I
give myself those things that I had demonized. But as
(26:05):
a child, my grandparents used to take me because I
grew up in Spain, and so we used to go
up into the mountains and there would be a special
restaurant that had chops and chips, lamb chops and chips,
And there's just something about that combination that reminds me
of a really happy, simple time in my life. It's
a simple meal and it's just delicious and salty. So
(26:29):
that's my favorite. That's my favorite thing.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, why don't even eat me? And that sounds good
to me.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's fucking wonderful. I know I should be a vegetarian
or a vegan.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
You should not should No, no, no no. I won't have.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
People say I'm a bad feminist because I.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Know we're not here to like you literally just said
this thing that not only delights you in terms of
the food, but the memory of it with your grandparents
and the mountains in Spain, This beautiful image.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And it wasn't even them they were horrible people.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
It was just they were You know, what I'm learning
about you is that you, more than maybe anyone I've
ever met, you can create the most beautiful image, and
then it's almost that you can't help but dows it
with the most awful bias.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
You have to talk to James.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You're so incredibly articulate, and you create these images that
are so beautiful, but then it's almost like you can't
just allow it to be. You have to dowse it
with something painful.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
It's with the truth. It was just a happy time
in my life, right, It was a happy time in
my life. I loved living in Spain. It was a
simple existence. It was sunshine and sandy beaches, and I
didn't know anything about politics or you know, sexual violence,
or I had no self consciousness. I thought having a
big belly was the most extraordinary thing on earth, Like
(27:49):
I would push it out as much as possible. Like
it was just such a pure time. And that taste
immediately takes me back to that pure mindset of I
have no problems, and life is beach.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
It's pristian, it's lovely.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, life is Beach.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Life is chop.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, Life is Beach and Chops and Chips.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me. Mini Driver
Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support
from Jennifer Bassett, Zoey Denkler and Ali Perry. The theme
music is also by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman.
Special thanks to Jim Nicolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, A,
(28:35):
Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette wolf A, w
kp R, Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan Levoy and Mangesh
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