November 3, 2022 • 30 mins
Antoinette Levine was one of the best-known location managers in Hollywood when Edward James Olmos asked her to get him into a prison.
Antoinette Levine was one of the premier Hollywood location managers in the early 1990s, with a talent for finding gritty Los Angeles backdrops for directors like Tony Scott. When she pitched Edward James Olmos on her vision, he went for it — then asked her to get him into Folsom Prison. With some convincing, she was able to get the movie to film in an active, working prison, a Hollywood first.
More Than a Movie: American Me is a podcast that digs into the history and mystery of American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James Olmos that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. In every episode, our host, Alex Fumero will be diving into the controversy behind the movie.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To make a film in a prison is to make
the film real, and what Eddie wanted to do was
to make that film as real as possible in that
same realm of scared straight right of like, you know,
if this doesn't scare you off, if you don't want
to have to live your life in an environment like this,
make different choices every chance you can. Welcome to more
(00:22):
than a movie. American Meat a podcast that digs into
the history and mystery of American Meat, a film directed
by and starring Edward James almost that had a huge
impact on Latino cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fumeto,
and I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy
every episode. I'm gonna try to peel back a layer
of the story by trying to go deeper into the
(00:43):
intentions and motives behind the film and the backlash. You
were just hearing the voice of Antoinette Levine. She was
an associate producer and supervising location manager on American Met.
What that means is fulsome prison. Ramona Gardens, any of
the play, says they managed to shoot this movie, which
is a big part of what made the film feel
so real. Antonette was responsible for those. She's retired now.
(01:08):
In fact, she lives on a remote island, so we
had to interview her via zoom, which is maybe why
the audio sounds a little funky. But she worked on
some location heavy movies, including The Adams Family, The Rookie
and Under Siege, so needless to say, she knows what
she's talking about. A location manager, she says, is reached
(01:28):
out to by a producer or a film company. But
what you're doing, what your job is, is you first
are sent a script. Let's just say I've reached that
level of location management. Let's let's just we American me
in there for a minute. So I've done a number
of projects with Clinty Swiss producer David Valdez, and Eddie
(01:49):
Almost actually reached out to David. I didn't know this
up front, but Sean Uh I forgot Seawn's last name
for a minute there. But I got to reach out
from the American me production to please come have a
meeting with an Almost because David Valdez had recommended you.
And so in essence, I was good at reading the
(02:10):
script and getting a vision already. And once you've done that,
you're already starting to have you read that script before
you even go in for your meeting, And for me,
it became important for me to be interviewing who I
was sitting across from as much as they were interviewing me.
Once uh, you're sitting in there and you're pitching your
(02:32):
thoughts about the film. If you're if you're brought on board,
you start working with the production designer, the person who
makes the locations look a certain way, shoulder to shoulder
with the director in terms of the vision of the film.
The director, who in this case was Edward James Almos,
who was very very actively involved in the whole process
(02:55):
of creation. And now we've all made movies. The only
difference between this movie and other movies because that we're
stuck in between a war zone. They were right in
the Cusp book, like three different groups of kids. And
what Anna is afraid of, and rightfully so, is that
there are so many as your kids here because she's
afraid that it's gonna cause of conflation. So she's dealing
(03:16):
with the director with a very specific vision for locations
that have a lot of pretty dangerous complications to them.
And as a location manager, you're actfully doing a little pitching,
because you are also responsible for what's going on behind camera.
Do you have a place to bring a hundred people?
Is the neighborhood or the vicinity going to let you in?
(03:38):
Can you get a film permit in this location? And
it goes on and on and on, um and in
in that way, Let's use even American me as an
example of what do you do as location manager. First
of all, you've got to get the state of California
to say yes. And secondly, because I became very good
at I became really good at get people that really
(04:01):
in the real world should say now like absolutely not
to say yes, including secret service, you know, including in
the es in l a which was, as we've discussed,
a really violent time. When we flash back to the
time period that the film takes place in right to
bring it back to American nineties, were well the nineties
(04:21):
is when you shot right and I was put out
a time where there were you know, riots in l A. Um,
we're shooting the riots. Yep, you location managed Falling Down,
which is to me one of the most underrated films.
It's a gangland thing, isn't it. We're having a territorial dispute.
(04:46):
I mean, I've wandered into your pissing ground or whatever
the damn thing is, and you've taken offense of my presence.
And I can understand that. I love that movie. I've
watched it, I don't know how many times, UM, and
that from what understand were you producing that? Were you
working on that movie during the riots? Yes, we were
working during the riots, And that's a perfect I think
(05:08):
that's a great example. So I was down there looking
for locations for falling down at the time when I
got the call and essentially was told, um to really
just hurry up and kind of get out of there
if you will. I was essentially for those I think
it was a five or six day period of the
riots where everything was shut down, everything was on fire,
(05:31):
and people were purposefully angry. Um. It really links in
so much. American Me was shot just one year before
the l A Riots, and the main characters literally conceived
through a sexual assault that occurs during a riot y.
(06:05):
The scene ends with Santana's adopted father played by Sal Lopez,
screaming out his girlfriend's name, Espenanza Hope coming up. Antoinette
tells me about getting the Famous Actors Trust and the
warnings that she and the rest of the crew heard
before they signed on to the movie. Here's another warning
(06:26):
for me, though it's commercial time, welcome back. This is
more than a movie. I'm Alex Fumeto. Today we're talking
to associate producer Antoinette Levine managed to get fulsome prison
to say yes when Edward James almost wanted to film
there first, though she had to get the job. Tell
(06:49):
us again, how you met Edward James almost? And tell
us do you remember the first meeting, the first proper
sit down meeting with with j L. I believe they'd
give they'd give him it would they've given him an
office at on the Universal lot. I believe that first meeting.
I believe it was at the Universe a lot on
(07:10):
Now I'm kind of a little fuzzy because I'm really
actually in the four walls of the room with Eddie
sitting across from me at a desk, and so it likely,
very likely was it one of the producer's offices up
on Universal, because the location manager comes on very early,
long before you get um, you know, some sort of
warehouse offices out in the world. Um, so in that
(07:31):
way for me, I was just so taken with his
past for this project. He he understood enough about filmmaking
in that way, certainly maybe even coming up he did,
you know he did stand in the liver standon the
liver was before that, UM, certainly Miami advice. UM. He'd
been on the streets in Miami, so he knew enough
(07:54):
to know that, and he knew enough to reach out
to David Valdez to look for a location manager who
had HUTSBA you know who you know, who had gone us,
who was going to show up and and deliver um.
But he wanted to let me know. He said, I'm
gonna be having this conversation with all my department heads. Um.
(08:18):
You know, the project, the subject of this film is
very near and dear to my heart. I wanted to
have this film made so I can take it around
these United States of America and speak to young people
so they might become determined to make different choices when
choices are presented to them and options are available, because
(08:38):
he knows that there is some space for choices. But
he said, I'm making this film for that reason, but
I have to have you know that it's not gonna
be easy, and it may not always be safe. We
were at we we could potentially be treading on sensitive toes. Um. Absolutely,
it was all of that. It was it was it
was that we were gonna want of film in places
(09:00):
where really you shouldn't bring a hundred people Fulsome State
prison for instance. Um, we didn't know we would get
to film there, and that was a I have to, uh,
if if you're okay with me jumping ahead just to
say a little bit about Eddie in the atmosphere of
negotiating Fulsome State prison. Yeah, absolutely, so let's yeah, let's
(09:22):
talk about Fulsome because people need to understand. If you've
seen this movie, it was shot in an actual active prison,
which I have a lot of questions about. But I
just want to hear you tell us a little bit
about about that experience. All right. I would just say,
his passion and his presence. His passion and his presence,
we're so vital to the meeting that we were to
(09:45):
have up at Fulsome State prison. Um. I'd helped organize
and schedule a meeting with the with the warden because
because the warden is like the mayor or the uh
president in Ied States is like the warden. It's his prison,
it's his prison. And even that had you know, the
(10:08):
California State that's a particular permit process, but that was
it wasn't even possible without the warden signing off on
the project. And so I was able to schedule a
meeting with them and bring in in in my peeps.
And I remember this meeting because the visual I have
of it is that we were sitting in a circle.
(10:31):
I remember that. That's my impression of it. I do
believe we were sitting. Maybe it could have even been
folding chairs because it didn't feel like it was really comfortable,
but we were sitting in a circle. As for this meeting,
it was it was so amazing because it was almost
like a tag team between myself and Eddie. Well, if
(10:52):
you're talking to a warden and maybe his lieutenants are
you know, he's key people who would want to have
around him at the same time to have this conversation,
A no would have been absolutely the right answer. I mean,
that's the that's the you know that that's my background
is turning nose into yes. Is that was Eddie's presence
(11:16):
was like critical to this because um, yeah, sure you
can say we're universal pictures. You can try and you know,
throw that card out, all of that, But it was
his his passionate intention for this film to make some
sort of difference. And if these prison authority figures had
(11:37):
any sensibility, and this is I believe, prior to all
this huge privatization of present prisons the prison system in
the United States, that they were still California employees and
they still were intent upon their mission of doing some
sort of good in this incarceration rehabilitation industry. Now, hum,
(12:00):
some of them had a heart. I think there was.
There was there was an alignment with a sort of
synchronistic possibility here. I actually scouted a lot of prisons.
I went to Solidad, I went to a lot of
different prisons and and scouted a lot of prisons. It
was Fulsome that visually really worked for the picture. Um,
(12:22):
but they were the ones that said yes to this
meeting as well. But his presence in that meeting is
what got us to yes. Brian Brotherhood and the Blood
Gorilla Family shared the rd out, but Fulsome belonged to
us the oldest clicker the Mexican Mafia. So let's let's
(12:45):
touch on that for a second, So why a real prison. Oh,
such a great question. Let's just contrast that with the
opposite of a real prison, uh set. In the film industry,
what you do instead of a prison as you do
a set. And yet there are sets in the l
A H. Hollywood region whilst where they've built fake prisons
(13:09):
you just don't have, you don't have the scope. A
director wants that scope. You want that feeling and that
sensibility that it's real. But I feel I have a
sense and of that that Eddie also wanted for his
actors and for his audience to really get to really
(13:29):
be in prison with us, to really be in prison.
My prison experience was I got to feel I got
to feel them as as an invitee. Um, I got
to fill the terror of being locked up um in
that sense because even as a free person, you're coming
into the prison and you're not free. You're absolutely not free.
(13:52):
So imagine if you were a prisoner and you're trying
to live your life out in this place. Um, there's
just there's there's a sense of endless despair. So to
make a film in a prison is to make the
film real. And what Eddie wanted to do was to
make that film as real as possible in that same
(14:13):
realm of scared straight right of like, you know, if
this doesn't scare you off, if you don't want to
have to live your life in an environment like this,
make different choices every chance you can. Do you think
that he fed off of being in this environment? Was
that part of his way of direct of Was he
(14:35):
channeling that environment to direct to act? Were you able
to sort of see that as it was happening, I
would say yes, um, because he's actually the adamant actor
when he's in front of camera. But I do believe
that he was brilliant in his conception of the actual
(14:58):
infrastructure of the film. The world say make it as
real as possible, because then i'm I'm, I'm that's my
I'm directing all my young actors and even the extras
and whoever whoever. You know, we enrolled I think hundreds
of extras, you know. So it was like he wanted
the whole atmosphere the prisoners were in the film. Yeah,
(15:24):
so there's a piece of that too, like a part
of our that whole circle meeting with the warden. What
about the gangs though, because this is another thing that
you know, like we talked to the Danny's right, We
talked to Danny round Little Puppet and Puppet, and one
of the things that they said was, you know, and
this is without getting in too much into the controversy
(15:46):
surrounding the film, the that that like, you don't make
a movie like this in prison unless you have the
okay of the bosses in the gangs right that they're
they're just not going to allow. And that was a
very com helling point that they made. As a location manager,
were you having to kind of have conversations with the
guys that ran a certain block or ran a certain area. No,
(16:11):
I was not. I didn't have to be uh engaged
with any of I was actually not allowed to be.
You're you're you. You're never supposed to engage with any
of the inmates, even when they're extras, even when they're
extras um and it's like you just you aren't engaging
(16:32):
with the inmates Like that just seemed to be like
kind of uh. I don't know how spoken that was,
but we we did do orientations for all of the
crew members before they could come in, very very strict orientations.
I don't have any of those materials with me. So
I don't remember what we said, but we were telling
everyone to button it down like they literally you just
imagine any scene from any movie where the friends or
(16:56):
family are coming to visit the inmate, just that is
very is very telling that they're not supposed to touch
or they're not supposed to give them anything. So it
was it was we were still separated from the inmates
right um in that way. So yes, there was no
for me. I don't know who would have done the
(17:17):
permission getting of the I don't even know what was
going on in that element or realm. I I believe
that even after we got the permission from the warden
that yes, go ahead, and then it was it was
step by step by step. It wasn't like, oh, then
we're just gonna come in next week and film. Then
(17:38):
it was like where are we going to film? Inside
balls and State prison? And so I had to walk
around and do more location scouting within the campus if
you will, the complex of course as a woman, as
a female. And but the beautiful thing was happened is
(17:58):
that here's the thing. There was a captain who was
the captain of the cell block that we were going
to use who began to walk with me. And once
that happened, there were no more cat callings. There was
no more So I ended up having Um, I got respect.
(18:20):
I ended up getting respect, and so my fear level
went down. Like I was never afraid, but it was
always very uh frazzling, energetically frazzling, tiring, you know, because
you always you do have a certain sense of red
alert going into a man's prison. Uh. He was, he
(18:41):
was in charge. He was the one who was able
to make all of this yes, no decisions uh as
we moved forward internally in the prison, and so I
was shoulders shoulder with him a lot because in filmmaking
there's this constant, constant asking for, asking for You're always
asking your your eyes asking for something more, or you're
(19:02):
asking for something different or can we you know that
sort of there's always changes and so but I was
working with a great uh first director who understood, um,
you know, he's he's always assisting Eddie. And I think
that's why the Associated producer credit for me, because so
much of my job was really to understand what the
(19:23):
limitations are. UM. As much as I'm gonna always push
for what the company needs, and mostly for what a
director needs on a film, what's their vision for the film.
If our job as location managers, no matter what the
film is even a dude, my dude, where's my car?
Is to understand what the limitations are. It's like, you
cannot we note, we cannot go back and ask for
(19:44):
another schedule change. It ain't gonna happen. We're gonna get
locked out here. And with that in mind, being in
a prison, were you ever concerned? Were there ever any
events that you were like, oh, okay, this, I might
be in danger now? It was eventless because everybody's on
their best behavior. Um, the inmates are sort of uh
(20:07):
in a way, almost bragged if you want to be
on this film, right, Um, so it's a perk for
some of them. Yeah, it was a perk because it
was something different, It was something interesting to do, something
they'd probably never done before in their lives and might
never do again. The only crew members that left because
I believe Eddie had given that same cautionary tale speech
(20:30):
to all of any department had coming in, but certainly
at our final production meeting, it was just too much
for them. Um. The cat calling that I received as
a women and men would receive as well, and they
didn't have a production of a captain walking around with them.
And a couple of them left and that was the
only time anybody left. So that was the only incident,
if you will, that verged on. You shot in real
(20:52):
people's lives, yes, right, Like when we talk about shooting
in an apartment building and Boil Heights, we're not talking
about a building. We're talking out a home. And it
was a complex. And the beautiful thing about it, Alex,
was that it was a complex that um it was
an interior. It was built in the late twenties, I believe.
And if you walk through this the stucco gate walls,
(21:16):
you come into a courtyard and each of the apartments
had a little stair case coming down to the middle
of the courtyard. So it isn't like a modern day
you know, hallway with doors and everybody separated. This was
an interior courtyard, apartments doors facing each with a stoop,
sort of East Coast style. Each apartment had a stoop,
(21:39):
and there was all these different lives going on at
each of one of those units. That's why it worked
beautifully for the film. But the people that lived there
their lives were all going on at the same time.
We've come into this one location and all of a sudden,
who's there to greet us? Put a little kid three
years old for whatever reasons, the parents are not around him.
(22:04):
He's very tough little boy. He has been on the
street for a long long time. Sleepy, you would have
been the movie with us. He would have been the
movie with us. See what they're doing. It makes you
sensitive towards the fact that environment is everything. You can
see it. If this child was getting exposed to a person,
even reading a book, he would accept it. Okay, don't laugh,
(22:28):
don't laugh, whatever you do you're on cameras, don't laugha
he is the future gang member because he's out on
the streets and he sees it going on and he's
attracted to it. Yeah, he was down during the riots
and the nine two, like absolutely doubted in the community,
talking with people, you know, absolutely so being in the neighborhood,
(22:52):
going out on the streets with Eddie, even during the scouting.
It was just an amazing community engagement experience. Um I
didn't catch a lot of the flak that some people
talk about that the film may have been stirring up. UM.
I I didn't engage with that, maybe from a place
(23:14):
of there's nothing I can do about how people are
going to react to this film. I would hope that
there's going to be a larger UM percentage of the
global community that is going to look at this film
for its meaningfulness, UM, you know, for its storytelling, for
its ability to be a cautionary tale. UM. But absolutely
(23:38):
going out into the vibrant Latino community on the east
side of l A during the pre production and the
filming of the film was maybe almost just a very
inspirational UM. I keep getting flashbacks from walking through the
(23:59):
men Gallo. There's UM and I remember Eddie at one
time saying, oh my god, I could I could be
I could be south of the border right now. UM,
for the richness of the culture. But we're walking through
a mercallo with on a final text out if you will.
There was a shop that I had been looking for
and I was showing it to them to for us
(24:22):
to be able to utilize. And the people were just
so enamored with Eddie, and he was so graceful and
would just take time talk and say hello. It was
never about him. It was always about community UM and
our purpose for being there coming up. I asked Antoinette
about her experience with gang consultant and murder victim and
(24:44):
Alis Atrica, as well as the pressure Edward James almost
was under making American me. Welcome back to more than
a movie. I'm Alex form Metal. We're talking to Antonette Levine,
the movie's location manager. The movie was able to shoot
(25:05):
and boil Heights thanks to the work of a gang
interventionist and consultant named Anna Lisa Raga, who was ultimately
murdered just weeks after the film's release. My experience of
Anna was that she was a key component to our
community relations UM in the way that she helped mentor
(25:27):
our Hollywood union selves, our crew members, and in that
way of um of proper behavior UM when they're going
on bringing their cells and their professional livelihoods into two
neighborhoods that are claimed by gangs. UM that that we're
(25:48):
really in somebody else's neighborhood and we're the visitors. And
what's the proper way to show up? UM in mannerisms
and clothing. You know, you're not wearing red or black
or or blue or whatever the colors may have been
um that were prominent colors of the particular gangs. What
(26:09):
made her an ex How did she know? How did
you know how to guide you that way? Because she
worked in youth gang services. She was a community uh
uh like UM, I didn't know a lot of this
about her before I worked with her, because she was
almost like another crew member in or almost consultant. And um,
(26:29):
I was so deeply engaged with my responsibilities on the project. UM.
So I learned more of it later, Um, you know,
reading more about her background. But she was a beloved
UM in the youth gang services uh offices or in
an area as a mentor and a guide, sort of
like an abuela if you will, certainly ada and uh
(26:53):
she was very important to the community. And uh, yeah,
that's all I'm gonna say. I'm not I'm just to
honor her life with that. Edward James almost must have
been under an inordinate amount of pressure, whether he would
ever even admit that or not to be a Chicano
filmmaker at this time making a movie about essentially his people,
(27:17):
albeit a sector of his people that he hoped would
be different. Um with an activist purpose and a studio
behind him who was sort of behind him but not
super present, and and at the same time trying to
commit himself to this incredibly realistic representation of his hood,
(27:39):
you know, UM and his and his uh you know,
the heritage of these places that have been marginalized, right
like the I mean he is juggling chainsaws here, right, yes,
and Alex this was the nineties, how many years ago?
With this, UM know? Today it would only be a
(28:02):
slighted difference. UM it for me the question of how
much there's still a missing of presents and there's still
a missing of presence. Um. You the Hollywood wants to Yeah,
we're we're four. We represent four acting just acting like
four almost of the population on TV. So you know,
(28:25):
before we before we wrap things up, I just I
really just wanted to ask you of all the scenes
in the film, which one is your favorite and why
it might have been. Where Eddie's character Santana was um
speaking with his I believe it was the little boy.
(28:48):
He was speaking with the little boy who I think
was his little brother outside during uh. I think there
was a party or a wedding. Uh was that it
was that it was the scene with the adult male
and the young youthful male um and that it was tender.
(29:10):
It was a tender moment. Check it out. That is
your route me. Sometime I was a little while, I
used to read them to my homeboys. They listened to
said it was like poetry the way you loved doing
to me, It's like a metaphor and a symbol of
(29:32):
the whole film, in the importance of the film. And
also there was a naivete. It's it felt um on
on the part of the adult um that is also
a delicate and tender piece, a certain naivete. On our
next episode, we speak with Danny Harrow, who fielded phone
(29:55):
calls from and was even followed by the Mexican Mafia
for his role as Edward James, almost his right hand
man on American Me More Than a Movie. American Me
is a production of Exile Content Studios in partnership with
I Hearts Podcast Network and Trojan Horse Media. The show
is produced by me Alex Fumeto at Angry Yuka on
(30:18):
the Internets, and our senior producer is Nigel Dora. Our
executive producers are Rose Red, Nando Vila, and Kareem Tapp.
Production assistants from Sabine Jansen and Stella Emmett. Mixing and
sound designed by the waterlo Albornos. Our executive producers at
I Heart are Gisel Bansas and Arlene Santana. For more podcasts,
listen to the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
To make a film in a prison is to make
the film real, and what Eddie wanted to do was
to make that film as real as possible in that
same realm of scared straight right of like, you know,
if this doesn't scare you off, if you don't want
to have to live your life in an environment like this,
make different choices every chance you can. Welcome to more
(00:22):
than a movie. American Meat a podcast that digs into
the history and mystery of American Meat, a film directed
by and starring Edward James almost that had a huge
impact on Latino cinema and culture. I'm your host, Alex Fumeto,
and I'll be diving into the behind the scenes controversy
every episode. I'm gonna try to peel back a layer
of the story by trying to go deeper into the
(00:43):
intentions and motives behind the film and the backlash. You
were just hearing the voice of Antoinette Levine. She was
an associate producer and supervising location manager on American Met.
What that means is fulsome prison. Ramona Gardens, any of
the play, says they managed to shoot this movie, which
is a big part of what made the film feel
so real. Antonette was responsible for those. She's retired now.
(01:08):
In fact, she lives on a remote island, so we
had to interview her via zoom, which is maybe why
the audio sounds a little funky. But she worked on
some location heavy movies, including The Adams Family, The Rookie
and Under Siege, so needless to say, she knows what
she's talking about. A location manager, she says, is reached
(01:28):
out to by a producer or a film company. But
what you're doing, what your job is, is you first
are sent a script. Let's just say I've reached that
level of location management. Let's let's just we American me
in there for a minute. So I've done a number
of projects with Clinty Swiss producer David Valdez, and Eddie
(01:49):
Almost actually reached out to David. I didn't know this
up front, but Sean Uh I forgot Seawn's last name
for a minute there. But I got to reach out
from the American me production to please come have a
meeting with an Almost because David Valdez had recommended you.
And so in essence, I was good at reading the
(02:10):
script and getting a vision already. And once you've done that,
you're already starting to have you read that script before
you even go in for your meeting, And for me,
it became important for me to be interviewing who I
was sitting across from as much as they were interviewing me.
Once uh, you're sitting in there and you're pitching your
(02:32):
thoughts about the film. If you're if you're brought on board,
you start working with the production designer, the person who
makes the locations look a certain way, shoulder to shoulder
with the director in terms of the vision of the film.
The director, who in this case was Edward James Almos,
who was very very actively involved in the whole process
(02:55):
of creation. And now we've all made movies. The only
difference between this movie and other movies because that we're
stuck in between a war zone. They were right in
the Cusp book, like three different groups of kids. And
what Anna is afraid of, and rightfully so, is that
there are so many as your kids here because she's
afraid that it's gonna cause of conflation. So she's dealing
(03:16):
with the director with a very specific vision for locations
that have a lot of pretty dangerous complications to them.
And as a location manager, you're actfully doing a little pitching,
because you are also responsible for what's going on behind camera.
Do you have a place to bring a hundred people?
Is the neighborhood or the vicinity going to let you in?
(03:38):
Can you get a film permit in this location? And
it goes on and on and on, um and in
in that way, Let's use even American me as an
example of what do you do as location manager. First
of all, you've got to get the state of California
to say yes. And secondly, because I became very good
at I became really good at get people that really
(04:01):
in the real world should say now like absolutely not
to say yes, including secret service, you know, including in
the es in l a which was, as we've discussed,
a really violent time. When we flash back to the
time period that the film takes place in right to
bring it back to American nineties, were well the nineties
(04:21):
is when you shot right and I was put out
a time where there were you know, riots in l A. Um,
we're shooting the riots. Yep, you location managed Falling Down,
which is to me one of the most underrated films.
It's a gangland thing, isn't it. We're having a territorial dispute.
(04:46):
I mean, I've wandered into your pissing ground or whatever
the damn thing is, and you've taken offense of my presence.
And I can understand that. I love that movie. I've
watched it, I don't know how many times, UM, and
that from what understand were you producing that? Were you
working on that movie during the riots? Yes, we were
working during the riots, And that's a perfect I think
(05:08):
that's a great example. So I was down there looking
for locations for falling down at the time when I
got the call and essentially was told, um to really
just hurry up and kind of get out of there
if you will. I was essentially for those I think
it was a five or six day period of the
riots where everything was shut down, everything was on fire,
(05:31):
and people were purposefully angry. Um. It really links in
so much. American Me was shot just one year before
the l A Riots, and the main characters literally conceived
through a sexual assault that occurs during a riot y.
(06:05):
The scene ends with Santana's adopted father played by Sal Lopez,
screaming out his girlfriend's name, Espenanza Hope coming up. Antoinette
tells me about getting the Famous Actors Trust and the
warnings that she and the rest of the crew heard
before they signed on to the movie. Here's another warning
(06:26):
for me, though it's commercial time, welcome back. This is
more than a movie. I'm Alex Fumeto. Today we're talking
to associate producer Antoinette Levine managed to get fulsome prison
to say yes when Edward James almost wanted to film
there first, though she had to get the job. Tell
(06:49):
us again, how you met Edward James almost? And tell
us do you remember the first meeting, the first proper
sit down meeting with with j L. I believe they'd
give they'd give him it would they've given him an
office at on the Universal lot. I believe that first meeting.
I believe it was at the Universe a lot on
(07:10):
Now I'm kind of a little fuzzy because I'm really
actually in the four walls of the room with Eddie
sitting across from me at a desk, and so it likely,
very likely was it one of the producer's offices up
on Universal, because the location manager comes on very early,
long before you get um, you know, some sort of
warehouse offices out in the world. Um, so in that
(07:31):
way for me, I was just so taken with his
past for this project. He he understood enough about filmmaking
in that way, certainly maybe even coming up he did,
you know he did stand in the liver standon the
liver was before that, UM, certainly Miami advice. UM. He'd
been on the streets in Miami, so he knew enough
(07:54):
to know that, and he knew enough to reach out
to David Valdez to look for a location manager who
had HUTSBA you know who you know, who had gone us,
who was going to show up and and deliver um.
But he wanted to let me know. He said, I'm
gonna be having this conversation with all my department heads. Um.
(08:18):
You know, the project, the subject of this film is
very near and dear to my heart. I wanted to
have this film made so I can take it around
these United States of America and speak to young people
so they might become determined to make different choices when
choices are presented to them and options are available, because
(08:38):
he knows that there is some space for choices. But
he said, I'm making this film for that reason, but
I have to have you know that it's not gonna
be easy, and it may not always be safe. We
were at we we could potentially be treading on sensitive toes. Um. Absolutely,
it was all of that. It was it was it
was that we were gonna want of film in places
(09:00):
where really you shouldn't bring a hundred people Fulsome State
prison for instance. Um, we didn't know we would get
to film there, and that was a I have to, uh,
if if you're okay with me jumping ahead just to
say a little bit about Eddie in the atmosphere of
negotiating Fulsome State prison. Yeah, absolutely, so let's yeah, let's
(09:22):
talk about Fulsome because people need to understand. If you've
seen this movie, it was shot in an actual active prison,
which I have a lot of questions about. But I
just want to hear you tell us a little bit
about about that experience. All right. I would just say,
his passion and his presence. His passion and his presence,
we're so vital to the meeting that we were to
(09:45):
have up at Fulsome State prison. Um. I'd helped organize
and schedule a meeting with the with the warden because
because the warden is like the mayor or the uh
president in Ied States is like the warden. It's his prison,
it's his prison. And even that had you know, the
(10:08):
California State that's a particular permit process, but that was
it wasn't even possible without the warden signing off on
the project. And so I was able to schedule a
meeting with them and bring in in in my peeps.
And I remember this meeting because the visual I have
of it is that we were sitting in a circle.
(10:31):
I remember that. That's my impression of it. I do
believe we were sitting. Maybe it could have even been
folding chairs because it didn't feel like it was really comfortable,
but we were sitting in a circle. As for this meeting,
it was it was so amazing because it was almost
like a tag team between myself and Eddie. Well, if
(10:52):
you're talking to a warden and maybe his lieutenants are
you know, he's key people who would want to have
around him at the same time to have this conversation,
A no would have been absolutely the right answer. I mean,
that's the that's the you know that that's my background
is turning nose into yes. Is that was Eddie's presence
(11:16):
was like critical to this because um, yeah, sure you
can say we're universal pictures. You can try and you know,
throw that card out, all of that, But it was
his his passionate intention for this film to make some
sort of difference. And if these prison authority figures had
(11:37):
any sensibility, and this is I believe, prior to all
this huge privatization of present prisons the prison system in
the United States, that they were still California employees and
they still were intent upon their mission of doing some
sort of good in this incarceration rehabilitation industry. Now, hum,
(12:00):
some of them had a heart. I think there was.
There was there was an alignment with a sort of
synchronistic possibility here. I actually scouted a lot of prisons.
I went to Solidad, I went to a lot of
different prisons and and scouted a lot of prisons. It
was Fulsome that visually really worked for the picture. Um,
(12:22):
but they were the ones that said yes to this
meeting as well. But his presence in that meeting is
what got us to yes. Brian Brotherhood and the Blood
Gorilla Family shared the rd out, but Fulsome belonged to
us the oldest clicker the Mexican Mafia. So let's let's
(12:45):
touch on that for a second, So why a real prison. Oh,
such a great question. Let's just contrast that with the
opposite of a real prison, uh set. In the film industry,
what you do instead of a prison as you do
a set. And yet there are sets in the l
A H. Hollywood region whilst where they've built fake prisons
(13:09):
you just don't have, you don't have the scope. A
director wants that scope. You want that feeling and that
sensibility that it's real. But I feel I have a
sense and of that that Eddie also wanted for his
actors and for his audience to really get to really
(13:29):
be in prison with us, to really be in prison.
My prison experience was I got to feel I got
to feel them as as an invitee. Um, I got
to fill the terror of being locked up um in
that sense because even as a free person, you're coming
into the prison and you're not free. You're absolutely not free.
(13:52):
So imagine if you were a prisoner and you're trying
to live your life out in this place. Um, there's
just there's there's a sense of endless despair. So to
make a film in a prison is to make the
film real. And what Eddie wanted to do was to
make that film as real as possible in that same
(14:13):
realm of scared straight right of like, you know, if
this doesn't scare you off, if you don't want to
have to live your life in an environment like this,
make different choices every chance you can. Do you think
that he fed off of being in this environment? Was
that part of his way of direct of Was he
(14:35):
channeling that environment to direct to act? Were you able
to sort of see that as it was happening, I
would say yes, um, because he's actually the adamant actor
when he's in front of camera. But I do believe
that he was brilliant in his conception of the actual
(14:58):
infrastructure of the film. The world say make it as
real as possible, because then i'm I'm, I'm that's my
I'm directing all my young actors and even the extras
and whoever whoever. You know, we enrolled I think hundreds
of extras, you know. So it was like he wanted
the whole atmosphere the prisoners were in the film. Yeah,
(15:24):
so there's a piece of that too, like a part
of our that whole circle meeting with the warden. What
about the gangs though, because this is another thing that
you know, like we talked to the Danny's right, We
talked to Danny round Little Puppet and Puppet, and one
of the things that they said was, you know, and
this is without getting in too much into the controversy
(15:46):
surrounding the film, the that that like, you don't make
a movie like this in prison unless you have the
okay of the bosses in the gangs right that they're
they're just not going to allow. And that was a
very com helling point that they made. As a location manager,
were you having to kind of have conversations with the
guys that ran a certain block or ran a certain area. No,
(16:11):
I was not. I didn't have to be uh engaged
with any of I was actually not allowed to be.
You're you're you. You're never supposed to engage with any
of the inmates, even when they're extras, even when they're
extras um and it's like you just you aren't engaging
(16:32):
with the inmates Like that just seemed to be like
kind of uh. I don't know how spoken that was,
but we we did do orientations for all of the
crew members before they could come in, very very strict orientations.
I don't have any of those materials with me. So
I don't remember what we said, but we were telling
everyone to button it down like they literally you just
imagine any scene from any movie where the friends or
(16:56):
family are coming to visit the inmate, just that is
very is very telling that they're not supposed to touch
or they're not supposed to give them anything. So it
was it was we were still separated from the inmates
right um in that way. So yes, there was no
for me. I don't know who would have done the
(17:17):
permission getting of the I don't even know what was
going on in that element or realm. I I believe
that even after we got the permission from the warden
that yes, go ahead, and then it was it was
step by step by step. It wasn't like, oh, then
we're just gonna come in next week and film. Then
(17:38):
it was like where are we going to film? Inside
balls and State prison? And so I had to walk
around and do more location scouting within the campus if
you will, the complex of course as a woman, as
a female. And but the beautiful thing was happened is
(17:58):
that here's the thing. There was a captain who was
the captain of the cell block that we were going
to use who began to walk with me. And once
that happened, there were no more cat callings. There was
no more So I ended up having Um, I got respect.
(18:20):
I ended up getting respect, and so my fear level
went down. Like I was never afraid, but it was
always very uh frazzling, energetically frazzling, tiring, you know, because
you always you do have a certain sense of red
alert going into a man's prison. Uh. He was, he
(18:41):
was in charge. He was the one who was able
to make all of this yes, no decisions uh as
we moved forward internally in the prison, and so I
was shoulders shoulder with him a lot because in filmmaking
there's this constant, constant asking for, asking for You're always
asking your your eyes asking for something more, or you're
(19:02):
asking for something different or can we you know that
sort of there's always changes and so but I was
working with a great uh first director who understood, um,
you know, he's he's always assisting Eddie. And I think
that's why the Associated producer credit for me, because so
much of my job was really to understand what the
(19:23):
limitations are. UM. As much as I'm gonna always push
for what the company needs, and mostly for what a
director needs on a film, what's their vision for the film.
If our job as location managers, no matter what the
film is even a dude, my dude, where's my car?
Is to understand what the limitations are. It's like, you
cannot we note, we cannot go back and ask for
(19:44):
another schedule change. It ain't gonna happen. We're gonna get
locked out here. And with that in mind, being in
a prison, were you ever concerned? Were there ever any
events that you were like, oh, okay, this, I might
be in danger now? It was eventless because everybody's on
their best behavior. Um, the inmates are sort of uh
(20:07):
in a way, almost bragged if you want to be
on this film, right, Um, so it's a perk for
some of them. Yeah, it was a perk because it
was something different, It was something interesting to do, something
they'd probably never done before in their lives and might
never do again. The only crew members that left because
I believe Eddie had given that same cautionary tale speech
(20:30):
to all of any department had coming in, but certainly
at our final production meeting, it was just too much
for them. Um. The cat calling that I received as
a women and men would receive as well, and they
didn't have a production of a captain walking around with them.
And a couple of them left and that was the
only time anybody left. So that was the only incident,
if you will, that verged on. You shot in real
(20:52):
people's lives, yes, right, Like when we talk about shooting
in an apartment building and Boil Heights, we're not talking
about a building. We're talking out a home. And it
was a complex. And the beautiful thing about it, Alex,
was that it was a complex that um it was
an interior. It was built in the late twenties, I believe.
And if you walk through this the stucco gate walls,
(21:16):
you come into a courtyard and each of the apartments
had a little stair case coming down to the middle
of the courtyard. So it isn't like a modern day
you know, hallway with doors and everybody separated. This was
an interior courtyard, apartments doors facing each with a stoop,
sort of East Coast style. Each apartment had a stoop,
(21:39):
and there was all these different lives going on at
each of one of those units. That's why it worked
beautifully for the film. But the people that lived there
their lives were all going on at the same time.
We've come into this one location and all of a sudden,
who's there to greet us? Put a little kid three
years old for whatever reasons, the parents are not around him.
(22:04):
He's very tough little boy. He has been on the
street for a long long time. Sleepy, you would have
been the movie with us. He would have been the
movie with us. See what they're doing. It makes you
sensitive towards the fact that environment is everything. You can
see it. If this child was getting exposed to a person,
even reading a book, he would accept it. Okay, don't laugh,
(22:28):
don't laugh, whatever you do you're on cameras, don't laugha
he is the future gang member because he's out on
the streets and he sees it going on and he's
attracted to it. Yeah, he was down during the riots
and the nine two, like absolutely doubted in the community,
talking with people, you know, absolutely so being in the neighborhood,
(22:52):
going out on the streets with Eddie, even during the scouting.
It was just an amazing community engagement experience. Um I
didn't catch a lot of the flak that some people
talk about that the film may have been stirring up. UM.
I I didn't engage with that, maybe from a place
(23:14):
of there's nothing I can do about how people are
going to react to this film. I would hope that
there's going to be a larger UM percentage of the
global community that is going to look at this film
for its meaningfulness, UM, you know, for its storytelling, for
its ability to be a cautionary tale. UM. But absolutely
(23:38):
going out into the vibrant Latino community on the east
side of l A during the pre production and the
filming of the film was maybe almost just a very
inspirational UM. I keep getting flashbacks from walking through the
(23:59):
men Gallo. There's UM and I remember Eddie at one
time saying, oh my god, I could I could be
I could be south of the border right now. UM,
for the richness of the culture. But we're walking through
a mercallo with on a final text out if you will.
There was a shop that I had been looking for
and I was showing it to them to for us
(24:22):
to be able to utilize. And the people were just
so enamored with Eddie, and he was so graceful and
would just take time talk and say hello. It was
never about him. It was always about community UM and
our purpose for being there coming up. I asked Antoinette
about her experience with gang consultant and murder victim and
(24:44):
Alis Atrica, as well as the pressure Edward James almost
was under making American me. Welcome back to more than
a movie. I'm Alex form Metal. We're talking to Antonette Levine,
the movie's location manager. The movie was able to shoot
(25:05):
and boil Heights thanks to the work of a gang
interventionist and consultant named Anna Lisa Raga, who was ultimately
murdered just weeks after the film's release. My experience of
Anna was that she was a key component to our
community relations UM in the way that she helped mentor
(25:27):
our Hollywood union selves, our crew members, and in that
way of um of proper behavior UM when they're going
on bringing their cells and their professional livelihoods into two
neighborhoods that are claimed by gangs. UM that that we're
(25:48):
really in somebody else's neighborhood and we're the visitors. And
what's the proper way to show up? UM in mannerisms
and clothing. You know, you're not wearing red or black
or or blue or whatever the colors may have been
um that were prominent colors of the particular gangs. What
(26:09):
made her an ex How did she know? How did
you know how to guide you that way? Because she
worked in youth gang services. She was a community uh
uh like UM, I didn't know a lot of this
about her before I worked with her, because she was
almost like another crew member in or almost consultant. And um,
(26:29):
I was so deeply engaged with my responsibilities on the project. UM.
So I learned more of it later, Um, you know,
reading more about her background. But she was a beloved
UM in the youth gang services uh offices or in
an area as a mentor and a guide, sort of
like an abuela if you will, certainly ada and uh
(26:53):
she was very important to the community. And uh, yeah,
that's all I'm gonna say. I'm not I'm just to
honor her life with that. Edward James almost must have
been under an inordinate amount of pressure, whether he would
ever even admit that or not to be a Chicano
filmmaker at this time making a movie about essentially his people,
(27:17):
albeit a sector of his people that he hoped would
be different. Um with an activist purpose and a studio
behind him who was sort of behind him but not
super present, and and at the same time trying to
commit himself to this incredibly realistic representation of his hood,
(27:39):
you know, UM and his and his uh you know,
the heritage of these places that have been marginalized, right
like the I mean he is juggling chainsaws here, right, yes,
and Alex this was the nineties, how many years ago?
With this, UM know? Today it would only be a
(28:02):
slighted difference. UM it for me the question of how
much there's still a missing of presents and there's still
a missing of presence. Um. You the Hollywood wants to Yeah,
we're we're four. We represent four acting just acting like
four almost of the population on TV. So you know,
(28:25):
before we before we wrap things up, I just I
really just wanted to ask you of all the scenes
in the film, which one is your favorite and why
it might have been. Where Eddie's character Santana was um
speaking with his I believe it was the little boy.
(28:48):
He was speaking with the little boy who I think
was his little brother outside during uh. I think there
was a party or a wedding. Uh was that it
was that it was the scene with the adult male
and the young youthful male um and that it was tender.
(29:10):
It was a tender moment. Check it out. That is
your route me. Sometime I was a little while, I
used to read them to my homeboys. They listened to
said it was like poetry the way you loved doing
to me, It's like a metaphor and a symbol of
(29:32):
the whole film, in the importance of the film. And
also there was a naivete. It's it felt um on
on the part of the adult um that is also
a delicate and tender piece, a certain naivete. On our
next episode, we speak with Danny Harrow, who fielded phone
(29:55):
calls from and was even followed by the Mexican Mafia
for his role as Edward James, almost his right hand
man on American Me More Than a Movie. American Me
is a production of Exile Content Studios in partnership with
I Hearts Podcast Network and Trojan Horse Media. The show
is produced by me Alex Fumeto at Angry Yuka on
(30:18):
the Internets, and our senior producer is Nigel Dora. Our
executive producers are Rose Red, Nando Vila, and Kareem Tapp.
Production assistants from Sabine Jansen and Stella Emmett. Mixing and
sound designed by the waterlo Albornos. Our executive producers at
I Heart are Gisel Bansas and Arlene Santana. For more podcasts,
listen to the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.