February 28, 2024 • 40 mins
Wrapping up the conversation with the sole survivor of the ‘Bible Belt Strangler’, Alex and his students prepare for a meeting as they come back from winter break.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
A group of high school student High school students.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Elizabeth and high school students started a project to research
a string of unsolved murders. Their research led to the
identification of the killer.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year
old question.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Once you start getting a few tips, or a few
leads or few identifications, then the cold case isn't so
cold any normal. There's a pretty good chance he's still alive.
Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out
to be accurate.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
Redhead killer profile mal Caucasian, five nine, six hundred and
seventy pounds, unstable home, absent father, and a domineering mother,
right handed IQ above one hundred most likely heterosexual.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
There is no profile of this killer except for the
ones the students created.
Speaker 6 (00:52):
Just because some of these women no longer have people
to speak for them, it does not mean that they
deserve to not be so anymore. What if this guy's
still alive, like what it becomes after us?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I consider it's gonna kill me, he said, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This is Murder one oh one, Season one, episode eight,
A New Plan. I'm Jeff Shane, a television and podcast
producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker, Courtney Armstrong, and
Andrew Arnolt. We're picking up where we left off as
mister Campbell connected with the Bible Belt Strangler's only known
(01:27):
surviving victim.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I was a little surprised that he had made bail.
Did did they call you and let you know that
he had made bail? Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, I was going to the Bahamas. I was on
my way and Larry Johnson said, no, don't leave the
time three because I can't take care of you or
I can't you know, because I said, don't kill me,
I have to leave. I mean, I guess he's only
out for like a day, but yeah, I just I
was going to leave the country.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, I'll have to look at the timeline that I've
been trying to make, but I think he was out
for a few weeks, and of course he got arrested
for stealing a vehicle. But like, what went through your mind?
I mean, whenever you heard did they call you on
the phone they told you? What went through your mind?
What were you thinking when they said that?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah? Oh yeah, yeah they told me. Oh, I like
to had a heart attack. I just knew that he
was going to come and kill me. I mean I
was the only thing keeping him from freedom. I mean
I thought, in fact, I thought the brother would kill
me because I just, you know, I didn't know that
whether he was in on it or not. I got
a gun the first time I life. I kept it
(02:40):
on my coffee table.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
So did you end up going to the Bahamas or
did you stay?
Speaker 7 (02:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I didn't leave because Larry said that, you know, he
could protect me as I'm here, but not if I'd
run off the Bahamas or something.
Speaker 7 (02:53):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I just wanted to get away when when Jerry down
got bond, I wanted to go to another country because
I was scared. No, I just I don't even I might.
I don't even know if I said Bahamas, I can't remember,
but that was I just I wanted to leave the
country because I was terrified that he's gonna kill me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, and I'm curious what other I mean, did you
do anything else differently because you were scared? Did you
besides by the gun? Did it change the way you
behaved or where you win or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah. I couldn't breathe hardly. I had That's why I
handed up with the psychiatrist because I was having tremble breathing.
I mean all the time, and I still I still
have treble breathing. If I'm thinking about my breathing. I
can't stand anything near my neck. A teacher has to
be round, not like v neck or I mean, it
(03:46):
has to be It can't be like a regular T
shirt like a man wears where the tup teacher's neck
because I can't wear it. I can't. I can't stand
anybody to touch me like people like to have a massage.
I can't stand it.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, yeah, Well what was it like testifying in court?
I guess you were in front of him? And how
did how? What was that like?
Speaker 7 (04:09):
It was?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I was absolutely terrified. I've never been in anything like
that before. I was when I was young. I was
married and divorced in the same year, and we walked in.
I walked in by myself a named some sort of
judge's little room thing with my attorney inside of piecepaper,
and that was as closet as I've ever come to
a courtroom. So I've never ever been in trouble or
(04:34):
been in a court, you know, anything like that. So
the whole thing was scary, and I had trouble talking
because I couldn't get my voice above a whisper, they
kept And yeah, when when I saw him for the
first time after three years, whatever it was, I mean
I was having trouble breathing, not not like I'm going
to die and wasn't turned blue, but like I couldn't
(04:55):
get a breath. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. I
didn't think i'd make it through. I thought, there's just
no way that I can do this.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
What do you think allowed you to make it through?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Knowing that he was going to kill other women If
I didn't, there was no doubt in my mind that
women who knows how many would have died. And all
those pictures of all those women that looked like me
were all dead women. Of course, I mean they didn't
show any pictures of dead women. They chose some of them.
I've been I don't know. There hundreds is not thousands
(05:28):
of pictures on that table and just spread around everywhere.
And I guess where they'd shared it with each other
or something before I got there, I don't know. But
all I kept thinking was I have to do this
if it kills me, because if not other women were
going to die.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Did you ever have to look at him in court
or anything or.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Oh, yeah, he was there the whole time, and he
stared at me. When I first took the stand the
first time. I guess I was across from him. The
other guy, yes, his attorney or the said do you
see him in his court room or whatever like this?
And I said yes. He said, well, looked like when
(06:11):
when you saw him last. I said, well, something's different.
I said, I don't know. He's like shaved his beard
or mustache or something, and whatever it was. I was right,
I guess because when I was done, my attorney suggest
that's exactly the right. Whatever, I don't I'm not. I
(06:32):
don't remember what it was. He had a mustache, had
a beard, and none just had a beard. I don't know,
but I.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Was going to ask you, how did you find out
that he had been tied to Tina Farmer's murder. Did
somebody call you and tell you that?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, the that TBI guy called me was still alive
and he's in GOMP for two years, so it had
it had been I don't know when it was, sometimes
last twenty years, in the past two years. I'm real
bad of time too.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I think they identified her in twenty eighteen, but he
might have known before then.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I don't know that would have been exactly that would
have been the right time when they and also told
me that there was a lot of stuff in the
papers and on TV. And I needed to prepare myself
because for the first twenty years or so, you know,
anybody that I saw or what by you know, telling me.
(07:31):
But then I dated this guy and I'm just crazy
about him. And then I thought, Okay, if I'm gonna
start dating, I gotta be completely honest. And I said,
this is what used doing. This will happen from that
day forward. He treated me like a whoor just the whole,
the whole. Everything changed. So that's when I thought, well,
you know what, I'm gonna quit telling people. I'm gonna lie.
(07:52):
There's no you know when I'm ascot. It's been years
since I've been on a date, many years. So after
we'd started, Joself now I'm not a virgin, you know,
I've got children, I've got you know, and I said,
I've done some things, awful thing, you know, he he
and he just said more than what he said, I
don't need to know about your past. And so I
(08:16):
never told you any of it and like that, and
I moved here. So it's not like I wasn't around
people that were to come up and call me Tasha
or you know that. I don't think he put even
put together if he saw a newspaper clipping that said lady.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So anyway we're talking about, Uh, they called you and
let you know when Tina Farmer, you know, had been
tied to Terry John's what what did you think or
what was the feeling you had when you when you
found that out.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Well, there was no doubt in my mind that he
was a serial killer. I mean, no matter what the
judge said to have been not looked into anything else whatever.
I know he killed women before. He wasn't gonna stop,
he said. But when what it called me to tell
me was that that they had DNA positive proof now
(09:08):
because they didn't have that with me, and it was
almost like he said, she said, except they found them
in my car. They found the blood on the cold
you know, there's others, you know, but he tried that
his tiny tried to blame it on uh, you know,
some other man or something. I don't know, but there
was a huge relief to know that there was positive
(09:29):
proof out there because I think the wife always thought
I was lying and I always worried about her. I
know they got divorced when after he went to prison,
and she was about the same height to me and
had fluffy hair and way and looked like twins. But
there were some similarities.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
You know. They actually showed her the pictures. I can't
remember if you were one of them, but I know
Tina Farmer was one of them, and his ex wife
Life actually said she looked just like me when I
was young.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, I saw a picture of ken of Farmer and
I said, oh my god, brother, they get a picture
of me, and then while I look at it, they
realized it's not me.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
But yeah, so she felt that she felt there was
some similarities to And the interesting part was they his wife,
his ex wife Phyllis, and him were actually half brothers
and sisters.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Oh my gosh, let's st up here for a break.
We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 8 (10:43):
Murder one on one.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
And they had had a very of course you probably
understand this many times, people who are violent and such
have had really rough lives. It was a really rough
home and some different things. But they didn't know they
were related. They lived down the road from each other,
so her mom was married to his real dad.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So they were from where.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Okay, So it's really crazy because they moved everywhere, but
they were living in Illinois at the time. And so
he joined the Marines and he went awall and he
was hiding out at his house and just down the street,
you know, was this girl. And so they saw each other,
and you know, they got involved. But they didn't even
(11:30):
know that there. You know, that her she didn't know
that her mom used to be married to his dad.
It's one of those things where it seemed like there
was like some infidelity, but both husband and wife were
a part of that, and they didn't like it was
an open secret. People knew it. They knew it, they didn't.
And so when they got divorced, I guess they just
were like they still stayed friendly, you know, and it
(11:52):
wasn't weird. I don't know, but that's the kind of
the way she made it seem.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, he was already in prison, wasn't when they got divorced.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Okay, So yeah, they had separated. What happened. It was
really sad. They had two sons and they had.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Thought they had kids.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
They did, and one had died at twenty two months old.
He died in nineteen eighty three, and from what I understand,
the marriage just deteriorated and they had been separated, and
she had moved back to Illinois, and he was staying
around Cleveland, Knoxville, and he was driving a truck. He
wasn't driving a truck. It's kind of hard to really,
(12:30):
but basically what I think is that he had been
involved in criminal activity going back to fifteen years old.
He'd been a lot, very long police record, but it
seemed like for about eight years, between seventy six and
maybe eighty five, there was no arrest record. But his
ex wife said he had been stealing some trucks, and
we know that he's probably related to some murders, but
(12:52):
for whatever reason, he wasn't arrested or anything for a
long time. But I think if you look at when
most of these bodies in Tennessee started having it was
around nineteen eighty four and eighty five, So I think
that's when the marriage broke up and she moved back
and he had no one to watch him. He didn't
have a wife, he didn't have kids, and he owned
(13:14):
his own trucking business, so there was no boss and
he basically had free reign and I think for about
six months, like there was a lot of murders.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Oh, I'm pretty sure it went on before that. I
think a lot of the women that they show me
pictures of had died before a year or two ago.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I mean, I will say that the Tracy Walker, who
they just identified at the end of August, she was
found very close to Tina Farmer, like maybe two miles
away there in Campbell County. But they actually lived near
each other in Indiana. And the interesting part is that
Interstate goes between Knoxville and Rockford is where he lived,
(13:53):
and you have to go through both of their hometowns.
So they went missing like four hundred miles away, but
their bodies went up very close to each other, just
thirty miles north of his house. So I feel there
could be a connection, and that's one of the things
we're looking at. And she died, she went missing, she
kind of ran it. She had had a history of
running away as a teenager, and she had ran away
(14:14):
for the final time in nineteen seventy eight. When they
found her remains, they said that she'd probably been dead
two to four years or longer. So she could have
been killed as early as nineteen seventy eight, So that
would give it seven years until nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, probably, I would assume if there was a split,
he might have went wild. But I mean, from what
I've read of that sial pillars, they may start out
doing one a year and then they go do more
and quicker, you know, less time between. Yeah, that's the
way I've always felt, just from those words he said,
(14:50):
is that I was not I was a prostitute, so
I wasn't worthy of life, and he was doing the
world of favor. You know. That's he didn't say that,
but that's way he treated me. That's what outside.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, so he told you you were a nuisance. His
ex wife when she was interviewed, she said that he
told her many times when he was out on the
road prostitutes were a nuisance. And then he told the
TBI when he was interviewed that prostitutes were a nuisance.
So he keeps using that same word, and you know,
and so that's and so with a killer like that,
(15:24):
they don't always kill closer and closer together. It can happen,
but they don't have to. But anyway, that's something interesting
to look at. But the one thing is like, how
do you feel what was the biggest change you think
about yourself as a person by going through this experience?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, it kun my whole life around.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I grew up in church, and I knew whatever was
doing was wrong. You know, you make excuses, you need this,
you need that, you know, and I knew God got
my attention and he let me live for a reason.
So now I think back and I think, how could
I have ever done that? But you do what you
got to do is it's just like being a mother,
(16:11):
you know, or whatever you're doing. Oh, I could never
do that. You can. You do whatever you have to do.
I mean, and I mean I could have gone back,
and it's hard to leave all that money, you know,
people tipping one hundred dollar bills and stuff. I mean,
because I never had to sleep with anybody. There was
no reason for me to have done that. I had made
(16:31):
eight hundred and some of dollars that night, you know,
I didn't need more. Just I was in a bad
mood and just is just stupid. But I mean, yeah,
my entire I tried to completely forget, like said my husband.
Reason knew I'm not that person anymore, And it wasn't
that person before I started. Actually, he is the reason
(16:55):
that I started dancing. We were in Indianapolis and he
kept on because has I begged of me to get
a thurn dance and he'd take me to these places
and show me, you know, and then so I would
widely done anything to me do. So I got really,
really really drunk, but it wasn't like I was drunk,
because I couldn't get drunk. I mean, I was so scared.
(17:16):
And then I got a third danced and I didn't
do a doup for a long time. But that was
how the first time I ever you know, dance. The
mood was because my husband wanted me to. And so
then when I was in I moved to Gatenburg to
get away from him because he was he was hitting
me into stuff. So even though we're divorced, I had
(17:39):
to get away from him, and I moved to Gattenburg
and there's only one hospital there and back then they
didn't have like home health or anything like that. And
I applied for a job and they didn't have any openings.
So I went to work because I work Castle on
the Hill and they really did money, you know, a
(17:59):
hundred times hunt dollars a day or hunt back then
it's love money. And but then the season changed and
there was nobody in Gallenburg, so I wasn't making any money.
And then a friend of mine took me to Noxtle
to apply for a job. It was din a pay
for a waitress. So I got there and they said, well,
(18:20):
you know, we we don't have a waitress position, but
you can dance. And I'm like, no, no, no no,
And eventually I said. Then about a year later, I
didn't I learned, Thank god, I don't keep that up.
I'm sure it be dead or on drugs or who knows.
(18:41):
I mean, it's not a make a lot of money,
but it's not a pretty life. When that's why when
they didn't when he went to prison for life, they
didn't spend a whole bunch more money to prove that
he killed other women because he's already in prison for life.
And I guess it didn't know what expensive, but.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Yeah, which which okay, it protects other women from him
in society from him, but it doesn't let other families
have that closure, you know, of knowing exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I'm going to tell you could comments question because
I know I'll think of things I wish I had
said to you, because you know, things I'll think of
along the way.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
But I might be able to ask you about this
and see if you heard this. There was the body
that was found in Green County. I don't know if
you remember that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I heard about her.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Yeah, it was it was a few, like a few
weeks after your incident, but she had been dead for
a while.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It was way before what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Or there was a few. There was some in like
down near Knoxville and Cheatham County that had been dead
for over a year. But the one girl, she had
been dead for a few weeks, so he could have
killed her before he was arrested. But my point is
we had an investigator in Kentucky tell us that they
found a business card near her body and it was
from a certain t truck stop in Houston, which is
(20:01):
where he lived. Jerry lived there part time. He had
family that lived there. His trucking company was registered in
Houston as well as Cleveland, Tennessee, and Rockford, Illinois, so
we know he was there. He actually said when they
interviewed him to the TBI that he just got back
from Houston, so we know that he had been in Houston,
and we know that he just got back from Houston.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah. I had always hoped that they would, but when
I talked to him, they said that, you know, they
couldn't afford it because well, his advices daughter in prison,
her life, so there was no it would cost millions
of dollars to do all this and well the DNA
wasn't back like that back then. But he's always worried
about his wife too. I've never spoken to her. She
(20:42):
gave me horrible looks in the courtroom because you know,
if somebody told my husband Kilton Bay, I get him
horrible looks to, you know. But I was glad that
she's divorced him. But I was really really That's one
thing when they told me about the DNA evidence that
the first thing I thought of was, she'll know for sure.
Now she'll you know, she'll know that I didn't make
(21:04):
that up and send her husband to prison.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Through you know, I read through the letters that were
given to the court from his relatives and friends, and
all of them were just like, you know, he's so nice,
and he was good to his kids, and he was
good to his wife, and he worked hard. And but
you know, that's how serial killers operate. They hide that
side of them and they project this side, and it's
so hard for people to believe that that's who they
(21:26):
really were.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
That's why I still wanted to look him in the
eyes and say why. You know, I guess I can't
understand why, because it's in his head that I guess
I was a bad person and I had to die.
But just it's it's I still it's like you want
to ask them why. But and I was just so
(21:47):
thankful that there was absolute, positive proof. I mean, I
was positive, there was no doubt.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
Mind that.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I mean, the other people, no one ever had to
guess or think or in the back of her line
tink maybe he was innocent, you know, maybe I shouldn't
have divorce him or whatever. But I just wonder what
happened to her. How there's other people that had it
lot worse and have lived with women that are prostitutes
and have texing from their kids, I mean for years,
(22:14):
I mean whatever. So I mean, and they don't kill
people because so I think it had to be in
his makeup to be able to you.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Know, I mean, yeah, Lynd, I agree. I think I
think it takes both, because, like you said, there's people
that go through terrible things, but they don't go down
that path. So I think there has to be something
in their makeup and their brain whatever their personality, and
then they experience these things and then that's a bad mix,
you know, it turns into something different than what it
does for other people.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, that's why I'm positive that he'd done it before too,
because there's no hesitation. You know, he had everything planned out,
and I think it's someone who was going to kill
for the first time. They wouldn't have been It wouldn't
have he wouldn't have been so easy with it, you know,
or you know, they wouldn't have been. So I don't know.
(23:06):
I can't even explain it, but I just I know
he killed the other women. Of course, now there's proof
that there is.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Now you were talking about his brother, Wayne, and why
is it that you were afraid of Wayne? It's just
because he was you his brother, or was there something
you noticed.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Or the two of them were there at the club together,
both them spending money, and supposedly I was going to
be with Jerry Johnston and Shannon was going to be
with the brother. But Shannon couldn't get off work for
another hour, so we were going to go and she
was going to meet us as a holiday inn. So
(23:45):
at the time I didn't know whether it was him
and they in on it together or you know, I
had no idea.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Did you ever think or did he give you reason
to believe that he could be violent too?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
No, not really, I guess just from he he you know,
he had he was missing a hand and he didn't
have like a like what they have now, fancy anything
or in fact, he didn't even have a claw. I
don't think I kept if he did, it's just a claw,
but he so, he just looked kind of menacing anyway.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, from what I read, he was pretty quiet. Is
that the way you remember it?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That's what I was just there to say. He barely
said anything. He was Jerry John's was definitely the the
one in charge, like the big brother or the you know,
the talk for the and the other guy just kind
of he was nice, but he didn't he didn't say
much things, okay, and I never saw him again. Once
we got to the hotel, I said, he went to
(24:42):
his room, and I went with Jerry to his room,
and I never saw I never saw a brother again.
But I had that at the time. I had no
idea about if they were going around the Kintry killing
these women, because I knew that it was something.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
It was.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
It didn't just happen. He didn't kill me because he
was mad at me or good for drugs or anything.
He did it because I guess he hated prostitutes or
you know, I didn't think you could hear the dear
he was designed and all of a sudden, I'm sure
you won't tell me. Yeah, at the first mean murdy set.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Let's stop here for another quick.
Speaker 8 (25:28):
Break murder one on one.
Speaker 7 (25:45):
Hey, this is Riley Woodson. I'm here with Marley and
we are about to get ready for basketball practice today.
And it's been a really busy week. I talked to
mister Campbell today and he's he heard back from Typeicanoo
County about our presentation and unfortunately they said that they
won't be able to discuss an open case over zoom call. So, yeah,
(26:06):
that's been pretty unfortunate.
Speaker 9 (26:07):
Yeah, that sucks, but we're hoping to be able to
interview de Soto County Police.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
So yeah, we're hoping maybe we can hear back from
them and get back to it in the new year.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
I was speaking with Scott Barker. He is the FBI,
a former FBI a special agent who worked as a
behavioral analyst, analyst who worked with our students a few
years ago to teach them how to profile and then
tell them if their profile was good. And so he's
now retired and he's got a little more time on
(26:41):
his hands, and so I was talking to him about
the case, and I asked him if he'd be willing
to hear from you all about the DeSoto County Jane
Doe and Tracy Walker, and have you kind of share
with him what you found and then compare that to
kind of the I guess you'd say, like the combined
victim demology profile of the other victims to see if
(27:03):
it really looks like they're probably linked to the same person.
So he would like to do that sometime next week.
Do you guys think you could be ready to present
next week? Yeah, And so anything you can add in
there about his m you know, how the victim was
left or body was posed, or clothing or you know,
(27:24):
how they or whatever, and then you know how they
were disposed of how far off the road. I try
to put a lot of that stuff in there, but
you might be able to find some like even more
specific things and see what you can come up with.
Speaker 10 (27:35):
All right, are there like any ways we could contact
people he may have been like incarcerated with, or anyway
to find that. I know, like it can be hard
to Well, he.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Might be able to find some prison records. Yeah, and
see who he shared a cell with. That is a
possibility because I.
Speaker 10 (27:53):
Think like they'd be aways who he truly was, because
now he's caught. I mean, he doesn't really have this
show to it on. I think it'd be interesting to
see how he paid in prison.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I tell you what's really interesting is to look at
the way he talked to Lynda and treated her, which
we have plain information on that, see how he talked
after he was arrested, and then read the letters from
friends and family that they wrote at the sentencing phase.
For every single one of them talked about what a
(28:24):
good family man he was, and how good he was
to his wife, and how much it hurt him when
his son died, and how he works so hard to
provide it for the family. But that is like how
serial killers operate, you know. Harvey Cleckley called that the
mask of sanity. They know their desires and true feelings
aren't normal. They know that people would be afraid of
(28:45):
them or not like them. I wouldn't want to be
their friend if they really knew how they were, So
they know how to hide that in front of people,
even people closest to him. But just like Harvey Cleckley said,
sometimes when you wear a mask, it gets loose and
slips down on your face a little bit and other
people can see like a little glimpse of what's behind it.
You can see those glimpses, you know, like for example,
(29:06):
when he told them, I'm going to kill you, and
she said why, Like I haven't done anything to you,
Why would you do that? And he said, because you're
a nuisance. So you know, he sees prostitutes or whatever
as a nuisance and they need to be gotten rid
of or there's no problem in getting rid of them,
or nobody will miss them if I get rid of them.
Speaker 10 (29:25):
I definitely like looking at the history with his mother
as well, because that's typically where that hatred Foy stems from. Yeah,
I'm curious just to see her history.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Well, there's our belt. I think that means we have
to go to school and learn how to do math
and science and all that kind of stuff. But so
you guys know what you're working on. Yes, I will
let you know on Monday the confirmed time to speak
with Scott Barker, and then it's probably gonna be Thursday though,
paying thirsty and you guys be ready to present to him.
You excited?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Sounds good?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I can't wait to see what he says.
Speaker 10 (29:57):
Yeah, I think, like you said, like the research one
not having the research for like, the facts speak for
themselves too, Like it's not even like we have to
mold it or shape it into it to look a certain.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
Way, Like it's just there.
Speaker 10 (30:10):
Yeah, which I think it makes our jobs.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I mean, confirmation bias is a thing, right, You get
into it and you kind of want it to happen,
and you don't even realize that you're doing things to
make it look more likely that it happened. It's always
good to have somebody who's outside and undetached and hasn't
spent this time on to spot those things. But also
it's important for us to understand if we see those
things in ourselves, let's try not to do that. Don't
just find information that supports our theory, let's just travel
(30:34):
over all the informations. So well, guys, have a great day,
you have a good Friday and good weekend, and we'll
pick back up next week.
Speaker 10 (30:40):
Sounds great.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Between school and basketball, Riley and Marley were incredibly busy,
but they still made time to join mister Campbell before school.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I am headed home for practice right now, and it
was a pretty good day. I got back my Calculus
test today. I got a hundreds. I was really really
happy about that because I did not say that is
very well, but I was really happy with that. I
went in late today because we went to the UC
basketball game last night against Alcorn today. That was really fun.
(31:13):
We really enjoyed it. We we didn't get back to late.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But while I was.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Getting ready this morning, I'm really hit me and it's
been on my mind a lot lately because as women's
young women in this country, and as young men, as
old women, as old men, as anybody, as a person
in this world, you have to be so cautious. We
don't live in a time where we can leave our
doors on locks anymore, and we can leave our car
(31:39):
doors on locked. It's sad that we have to live
on edge, but it's just the world that we live in.
Our world is evil, and now there is evil out
there like there needs to be some good come out
of it. These women did not need to lose their
lives in things. We need to grow and we need
to bring justice to these women. They did not deserves,
(32:01):
so these stories cannot be told. I know that they
were targeted because they were considered maybe less dead by
Jerry Leon John or some individuals just because they were
maybe prostitutes, or they were runaway or they were huge highers.
These people that killed them thought they don't have any family,
Nobody cares about them. They're runaways, they don't have a
home to go back to. No one's gonna miss them
(32:23):
if I take their lives. We need to prove these
evil people wrong because the truth is that these women
all had children, sisters, mothers, They were somebody's daughter. They
were loved by somebody and it's not fair that they
were taken and they don't have a voice anymore. We
have to be a voice for these women. We have
to be a voice for those who can't speak anymore.
(32:44):
If I can help somewhat in that battle for justice
for these women, or for justice for anybody who's taken
to me, I'm gonna do my very best, because it
could be it could be me, It could be you,
It could be your younger daughter, it could be your mother,
it could be anybody's in your life, and you don't
think he is until it's too late. These women doesn't
(33:07):
have someone fight for them and fight for their lives
because it's taken from a man with a coward who
was evil and who did not deserve to determine whether
or not these women not deliver or die.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
And it's so unfair.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'm getting a little notional because it's just not They
didn't deserve any of this, and they definitely don't deserve
for their stories not to be told or to be
less Jacos. We need to find these women because there's
someone out there that cares about them. The more time
that goes on, the longer time passes, we're just wasting
more time. Evidence is degrading, getting worse for losing any
(33:46):
possibility of matching these women and finding them out who
they are. Their family members are dying We've just got
to get on the ball and got to get justice
for these women. It's not fair. It is not fair
that I just live my life freely every single day
when a woman who was doing the exact same thing
about her life taken.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
First semester came to a close and the club dismantled
for winter break, but they reconvened in the new year
as Riley and Marley continue to come in before school.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
I am getting ready for school right now. It is
six forty six am, so I'm still slightly asleep.
Speaker 10 (34:23):
But we didn't get home last night till really late.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
We had a basketball.
Speaker 7 (34:27):
Game west Ridge High School. We had a full sweep
for the girls or debut one or orse one. It
is a pretty good naped, pretty successful not it won
pretty big, played well, so I'm really really happy about that.
And then after the game, I was sitting and talking
to my grandma and I'll send her about the case and.
Speaker 9 (34:47):
We're just discussing it.
Speaker 7 (34:49):
I told her about Keina Farmer, who is one of
Jailian John's confirmed victims.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I'll have church not after practice. We'll have practice from.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
Three six this afternoon, and we're just heading straight to
church and then I'll come home and do it all
again tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Good morning, ladies, Good morning. It is now our spring semester.
How does it feel to be starting your second semester school?
This year?
Speaker 10 (35:20):
Overwhelming?
Speaker 7 (35:22):
Really was us?
Speaker 9 (35:24):
Junior years is really hard in general.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Well, I've got bad news for you. We're gonna cram
in here too. We've got a lot of stuff that
you guys have been working on, and it's kind of
just coming to a point where some big things need
to happen. So I said, you know, here's what I'd
like to do. I would like to present our information
to a district attorney and let them see. So I
(35:46):
found our former assistant district attorney in our county and
he has agreed to come and listen and see the evidence.
So he wants to come and listen next week. How
do we show them that there's a connection between ten
farmer Land and a lot of these other crimes, and
then we need to talk about them and the signature, remember,
(36:06):
is what offenders do to an affect, an escape or
to keep them from being caught. The profiler tells me
there's four things you must have to prove it's the
same person. One of them is the geography, one of
them is the time, one of them is the mo
and one of them is the signature. Okay, so that's
to prove that there is a serial killer in operation.
But the district attorney is going to want to know
(36:27):
what's my evidence I could take to trial. That's gonna
be the ligatures were the same, they disappeared from the
same area, they should back up in the same area.
You know, they're going to want to know some of
those things because when they take it to a jury,
what's the jury want to hear. It's a circumstantial case,
but a lot of people being convicted on circumstantial evidence,
but you better have some good circumstantial evidence. Yeah, and
then you know what does detective want to hear? What
(36:49):
he wants to hear probably what he would look for.
So I think with all those things we can that
would probably cover it all. And we can figure out
here in a second how to divide that up. So
what do you think? It's pretty good plan if we
did like the end of next week.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Sometimes, yeah, for Sureay.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Is anybody excited?
Speaker 10 (37:06):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Is anybody a little bit scared?
Speaker 7 (37:08):
A little scared?
Speaker 4 (37:09):
It is you know, you're going to stand up there
and present a body of evidence to somebody who's an expert.
They've done this for twenty thirty years. Yeah, you're not
a police officer. You haven't had official training on this,
but you've done a lot of work and you've done
a lot of research, and so it's okay to be
a little nervous. And they're very nice people, of course,
who are going to come and listen to you. But
(37:29):
you know, the next thing is what happens when they
say something to us, Like if I was the assistant
district attorney, I take it.
Speaker 6 (37:36):
Yeah, I don't know, like I feel like it's going
to really really bother me. If like the former district
attorney is like yeah, I would totally do something about that,
And then we don't have like the people who can
do something.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
About that, Like the original students. In twenty eighteen, Riley
and Marley had an idea to raise awareness.
Speaker 9 (37:57):
People hearing about Tina Farmer.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
You know, knowing that they're knowledge can make an impact,
you know, I think that could encourage a lot more
people to bring more attention.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
You know, yeah, just for like we live here. If
we put it on the news from the newspaper. I
think it would be really eye catching for so many
people here, just where there.
Speaker 10 (38:13):
Was like a Green County viging that way.
Speaker 9 (38:16):
I think you have excellent audia.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
More on that next time. Murder one oh one is
executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew
Arnot and me Jeff Shane. Additional producing by Connor Powell
and Gabriel Castillo, Editing by Jeff Twa and Davey Cooper Wasser,
(38:43):
Music by Vanikor Music. Murder one oh one is a
production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts
from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Youssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
A group of high school student High school students.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Elizabeth and high school students started a project to research
a string of unsolved murders. Their research led to the
identification of the killer.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year
old question.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Once you start getting a few tips, or a few
leads or few identifications, then the cold case isn't so
cold any normal. There's a pretty good chance he's still alive.
Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out
to be accurate.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
Redhead killer profile mal Caucasian, five nine, six hundred and
seventy pounds, unstable home, absent father, and a domineering mother,
right handed IQ above one hundred most likely heterosexual.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
There is no profile of this killer except for the
ones the students created.
Speaker 6 (00:52):
Just because some of these women no longer have people
to speak for them, it does not mean that they
deserve to not be so anymore. What if this guy's
still alive, like what it becomes after us?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I consider it's gonna kill me, he said, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
This is Murder one oh one, Season one, episode eight,
A New Plan. I'm Jeff Shane, a television and podcast
producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker, Courtney Armstrong, and
Andrew Arnolt. We're picking up where we left off as
mister Campbell connected with the Bible Belt Strangler's only known
(01:27):
surviving victim.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I was a little surprised that he had made bail.
Did did they call you and let you know that
he had made bail? Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, I was going to the Bahamas. I was on
my way and Larry Johnson said, no, don't leave the
time three because I can't take care of you or
I can't you know, because I said, don't kill me,
I have to leave. I mean, I guess he's only
out for like a day, but yeah, I just I
was going to leave the country.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, I'll have to look at the timeline that I've
been trying to make, but I think he was out
for a few weeks, and of course he got arrested
for stealing a vehicle. But like, what went through your mind?
I mean, whenever you heard did they call you on
the phone they told you? What went through your mind?
What were you thinking when they said that?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah? Oh yeah, yeah they told me. Oh, I like
to had a heart attack. I just knew that he
was going to come and kill me. I mean I
was the only thing keeping him from freedom. I mean
I thought, in fact, I thought the brother would kill
me because I just, you know, I didn't know that
whether he was in on it or not. I got
a gun the first time I life. I kept it
(02:40):
on my coffee table.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
So did you end up going to the Bahamas or
did you stay?
Speaker 7 (02:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I didn't leave because Larry said that, you know, he
could protect me as I'm here, but not if I'd
run off the Bahamas or something.
Speaker 7 (02:53):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I just wanted to get away when when Jerry down
got bond, I wanted to go to another country because
I was scared. No, I just I don't even I might.
I don't even know if I said Bahamas, I can't remember,
but that was I just I wanted to leave the
country because I was terrified that he's gonna kill me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, and I'm curious what other I mean, did you
do anything else differently because you were scared? Did you
besides by the gun? Did it change the way you
behaved or where you win or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah. I couldn't breathe hardly. I had That's why I
handed up with the psychiatrist because I was having tremble breathing.
I mean all the time, and I still I still
have treble breathing. If I'm thinking about my breathing. I
can't stand anything near my neck. A teacher has to
be round, not like v neck or I mean, it
(03:46):
has to be It can't be like a regular T
shirt like a man wears where the tup teacher's neck
because I can't wear it. I can't. I can't stand
anybody to touch me like people like to have a massage.
I can't stand it.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, yeah, Well what was it like testifying in court?
I guess you were in front of him? And how
did how? What was that like?
Speaker 7 (04:09):
It was?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I was absolutely terrified. I've never been in anything like
that before. I was when I was young. I was
married and divorced in the same year, and we walked in.
I walked in by myself a named some sort of
judge's little room thing with my attorney inside of piecepaper,
and that was as closet as I've ever come to
a courtroom. So I've never ever been in trouble or
(04:34):
been in a court, you know, anything like that. So
the whole thing was scary, and I had trouble talking
because I couldn't get my voice above a whisper, they
kept And yeah, when when I saw him for the
first time after three years, whatever it was, I mean
I was having trouble breathing, not not like I'm going
to die and wasn't turned blue, but like I couldn't
(04:55):
get a breath. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. I
didn't think i'd make it through. I thought, there's just
no way that I can do this.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
What do you think allowed you to make it through?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Knowing that he was going to kill other women If
I didn't, there was no doubt in my mind that
women who knows how many would have died. And all
those pictures of all those women that looked like me
were all dead women. Of course, I mean they didn't
show any pictures of dead women. They chose some of them.
I've been I don't know. There hundreds is not thousands
(05:28):
of pictures on that table and just spread around everywhere.
And I guess where they'd shared it with each other
or something before I got there, I don't know. But
all I kept thinking was I have to do this
if it kills me, because if not other women were
going to die.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Did you ever have to look at him in court
or anything or.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Oh, yeah, he was there the whole time, and he
stared at me. When I first took the stand the
first time. I guess I was across from him. The
other guy, yes, his attorney or the said do you
see him in his court room or whatever like this?
And I said yes. He said, well, looked like when
(06:11):
when you saw him last. I said, well, something's different.
I said, I don't know. He's like shaved his beard
or mustache or something, and whatever it was. I was right,
I guess because when I was done, my attorney suggest
that's exactly the right. Whatever, I don't I'm not. I
(06:32):
don't remember what it was. He had a mustache, had
a beard, and none just had a beard. I don't know,
but I.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Was going to ask you, how did you find out
that he had been tied to Tina Farmer's murder. Did
somebody call you and tell you that?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, the that TBI guy called me was still alive
and he's in GOMP for two years, so it had
it had been I don't know when it was, sometimes
last twenty years, in the past two years. I'm real
bad of time too.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I think they identified her in twenty eighteen, but he
might have known before then.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I don't know that would have been exactly that would
have been the right time when they and also told
me that there was a lot of stuff in the
papers and on TV. And I needed to prepare myself
because for the first twenty years or so, you know,
anybody that I saw or what by you know, telling me.
(07:31):
But then I dated this guy and I'm just crazy
about him. And then I thought, Okay, if I'm gonna
start dating, I gotta be completely honest. And I said,
this is what used doing. This will happen from that
day forward. He treated me like a whoor just the whole,
the whole. Everything changed. So that's when I thought, well,
you know what, I'm gonna quit telling people. I'm gonna lie.
(07:52):
There's no you know when I'm ascot. It's been years
since I've been on a date, many years. So after
we'd started, Joself now I'm not a virgin, you know,
I've got children, I've got you know, and I said,
I've done some things, awful thing, you know, he he
and he just said more than what he said, I
don't need to know about your past. And so I
(08:16):
never told you any of it and like that, and
I moved here. So it's not like I wasn't around
people that were to come up and call me Tasha
or you know that. I don't think he put even
put together if he saw a newspaper clipping that said lady.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So anyway we're talking about, Uh, they called you and
let you know when Tina Farmer, you know, had been
tied to Terry John's what what did you think or
what was the feeling you had when you when you
found that out.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Well, there was no doubt in my mind that he
was a serial killer. I mean, no matter what the
judge said to have been not looked into anything else whatever.
I know he killed women before. He wasn't gonna stop,
he said. But when what it called me to tell
me was that that they had DNA positive proof now
(09:08):
because they didn't have that with me, and it was
almost like he said, she said, except they found them
in my car. They found the blood on the cold
you know, there's others, you know, but he tried that
his tiny tried to blame it on uh, you know,
some other man or something. I don't know, but there
was a huge relief to know that there was positive
(09:29):
proof out there because I think the wife always thought
I was lying and I always worried about her. I
know they got divorced when after he went to prison,
and she was about the same height to me and
had fluffy hair and way and looked like twins. But
there were some similarities.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
You know. They actually showed her the pictures. I can't
remember if you were one of them, but I know
Tina Farmer was one of them, and his ex wife
Life actually said she looked just like me when I
was young.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, I saw a picture of ken of Farmer and
I said, oh my god, brother, they get a picture
of me, and then while I look at it, they
realized it's not me.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
But yeah, so she felt that she felt there was
some similarities to And the interesting part was they his wife,
his ex wife Phyllis, and him were actually half brothers
and sisters.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Oh my gosh, let's st up here for a break.
We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 8 (10:43):
Murder one on one.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
And they had had a very of course you probably
understand this many times, people who are violent and such
have had really rough lives. It was a really rough
home and some different things. But they didn't know they
were related. They lived down the road from each other,
so her mom was married to his real dad.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So they were from where.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Okay, So it's really crazy because they moved everywhere, but
they were living in Illinois at the time. And so
he joined the Marines and he went awall and he
was hiding out at his house and just down the street,
you know, was this girl. And so they saw each other,
and you know, they got involved. But they didn't even
(11:30):
know that there. You know, that her she didn't know
that her mom used to be married to his dad.
It's one of those things where it seemed like there
was like some infidelity, but both husband and wife were
a part of that, and they didn't like it was
an open secret. People knew it. They knew it, they didn't.
And so when they got divorced, I guess they just
were like they still stayed friendly, you know, and it
(11:52):
wasn't weird. I don't know, but that's the kind of
the way she made it seem.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, he was already in prison, wasn't when they got divorced.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Okay, So yeah, they had separated. What happened. It was
really sad. They had two sons and they had.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Thought they had kids.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
They did, and one had died at twenty two months old.
He died in nineteen eighty three, and from what I understand,
the marriage just deteriorated and they had been separated, and
she had moved back to Illinois, and he was staying
around Cleveland, Knoxville, and he was driving a truck. He
wasn't driving a truck. It's kind of hard to really,
(12:30):
but basically what I think is that he had been
involved in criminal activity going back to fifteen years old.
He'd been a lot, very long police record, but it
seemed like for about eight years, between seventy six and
maybe eighty five, there was no arrest record. But his
ex wife said he had been stealing some trucks, and
we know that he's probably related to some murders, but
(12:52):
for whatever reason, he wasn't arrested or anything for a
long time. But I think if you look at when
most of these bodies in Tennessee started having it was
around nineteen eighty four and eighty five, So I think
that's when the marriage broke up and she moved back
and he had no one to watch him. He didn't
have a wife, he didn't have kids, and he owned
(13:14):
his own trucking business, so there was no boss and
he basically had free reign and I think for about
six months, like there was a lot of murders.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Oh, I'm pretty sure it went on before that. I
think a lot of the women that they show me
pictures of had died before a year or two ago.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I mean, I will say that the Tracy Walker, who
they just identified at the end of August, she was
found very close to Tina Farmer, like maybe two miles
away there in Campbell County. But they actually lived near
each other in Indiana. And the interesting part is that
Interstate goes between Knoxville and Rockford is where he lived,
(13:53):
and you have to go through both of their hometowns.
So they went missing like four hundred miles away, but
their bodies went up very close to each other, just
thirty miles north of his house. So I feel there
could be a connection, and that's one of the things
we're looking at. And she died, she went missing, she
kind of ran it. She had had a history of
running away as a teenager, and she had ran away
(14:14):
for the final time in nineteen seventy eight. When they
found her remains, they said that she'd probably been dead
two to four years or longer. So she could have
been killed as early as nineteen seventy eight, So that
would give it seven years until nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, probably, I would assume if there was a split,
he might have went wild. But I mean, from what
I've read of that sial pillars, they may start out
doing one a year and then they go do more
and quicker, you know, less time between. Yeah, that's the
way I've always felt, just from those words he said,
(14:50):
is that I was not I was a prostitute, so
I wasn't worthy of life, and he was doing the
world of favor. You know. That's he didn't say that,
but that's way he treated me. That's what outside.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Yeah, so he told you you were a nuisance. His
ex wife when she was interviewed, she said that he
told her many times when he was out on the
road prostitutes were a nuisance. And then he told the
TBI when he was interviewed that prostitutes were a nuisance.
So he keeps using that same word, and you know,
and so that's and so with a killer like that,
(15:24):
they don't always kill closer and closer together. It can happen,
but they don't have to. But anyway, that's something interesting
to look at. But the one thing is like, how
do you feel what was the biggest change you think
about yourself as a person by going through this experience?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, it kun my whole life around.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I grew up in church, and I knew whatever was
doing was wrong. You know, you make excuses, you need this,
you need that, you know, and I knew God got
my attention and he let me live for a reason.
So now I think back and I think, how could
I have ever done that? But you do what you
got to do is it's just like being a mother,
(16:11):
you know, or whatever you're doing. Oh, I could never
do that. You can. You do whatever you have to do.
I mean, and I mean I could have gone back,
and it's hard to leave all that money, you know,
people tipping one hundred dollar bills and stuff. I mean,
because I never had to sleep with anybody. There was
no reason for me to have done that. I had made
(16:31):
eight hundred and some of dollars that night, you know,
I didn't need more. Just I was in a bad
mood and just is just stupid. But I mean, yeah,
my entire I tried to completely forget, like said my husband.
Reason knew I'm not that person anymore, And it wasn't
that person before I started. Actually, he is the reason
(16:55):
that I started dancing. We were in Indianapolis and he
kept on because has I begged of me to get
a thurn dance and he'd take me to these places
and show me, you know, and then so I would
widely done anything to me do. So I got really,
really really drunk, but it wasn't like I was drunk,
because I couldn't get drunk. I mean, I was so scared.
(17:16):
And then I got a third danced and I didn't
do a doup for a long time. But that was
how the first time I ever you know, dance. The
mood was because my husband wanted me to. And so
then when I was in I moved to Gatenburg to
get away from him because he was he was hitting
me into stuff. So even though we're divorced, I had
(17:39):
to get away from him, and I moved to Gattenburg
and there's only one hospital there and back then they
didn't have like home health or anything like that. And
I applied for a job and they didn't have any openings.
So I went to work because I work Castle on
the Hill and they really did money, you know, a
(17:59):
hundred times hunt dollars a day or hunt back then
it's love money. And but then the season changed and
there was nobody in Gallenburg, so I wasn't making any money.
And then a friend of mine took me to Noxtle
to apply for a job. It was din a pay
for a waitress. So I got there and they said, well,
(18:20):
you know, we we don't have a waitress position, but
you can dance. And I'm like, no, no, no no,
And eventually I said. Then about a year later, I
didn't I learned, Thank god, I don't keep that up.
I'm sure it be dead or on drugs or who knows.
(18:41):
I mean, it's not a make a lot of money,
but it's not a pretty life. When that's why when
they didn't when he went to prison for life, they
didn't spend a whole bunch more money to prove that
he killed other women because he's already in prison for life.
And I guess it didn't know what expensive, but.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Yeah, which which okay, it protects other women from him
in society from him, but it doesn't let other families
have that closure, you know, of knowing exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I'm going to tell you could comments question because
I know I'll think of things I wish I had
said to you, because you know, things I'll think of
along the way.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
But I might be able to ask you about this
and see if you heard this. There was the body
that was found in Green County. I don't know if
you remember that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I heard about her.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Yeah, it was it was a few, like a few
weeks after your incident, but she had been dead for
a while.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It was way before what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Or there was a few. There was some in like
down near Knoxville and Cheatham County that had been dead
for over a year. But the one girl, she had
been dead for a few weeks, so he could have
killed her before he was arrested. But my point is
we had an investigator in Kentucky tell us that they
found a business card near her body and it was
from a certain t truck stop in Houston, which is
(20:01):
where he lived. Jerry lived there part time. He had
family that lived there. His trucking company was registered in
Houston as well as Cleveland, Tennessee, and Rockford, Illinois, so
we know he was there. He actually said when they
interviewed him to the TBI that he just got back
from Houston, so we know that he had been in Houston,
and we know that he just got back from Houston.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah. I had always hoped that they would, but when
I talked to him, they said that, you know, they
couldn't afford it because well, his advices daughter in prison,
her life, so there was no it would cost millions
of dollars to do all this and well the DNA
wasn't back like that back then. But he's always worried
about his wife too. I've never spoken to her. She
(20:42):
gave me horrible looks in the courtroom because you know,
if somebody told my husband Kilton Bay, I get him
horrible looks to, you know. But I was glad that
she's divorced him. But I was really really That's one
thing when they told me about the DNA evidence that
the first thing I thought of was, she'll know for sure.
Now she'll you know, she'll know that I didn't make
(21:04):
that up and send her husband to prison.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Through you know, I read through the letters that were
given to the court from his relatives and friends, and
all of them were just like, you know, he's so nice,
and he was good to his kids, and he was
good to his wife, and he worked hard. And but
you know, that's how serial killers operate. They hide that
side of them and they project this side, and it's
so hard for people to believe that that's who they
(21:26):
really were.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
That's why I still wanted to look him in the
eyes and say why. You know, I guess I can't
understand why, because it's in his head that I guess
I was a bad person and I had to die.
But just it's it's I still it's like you want
to ask them why. But and I was just so
(21:47):
thankful that there was absolute, positive proof. I mean, I
was positive, there was no doubt.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
Mind that.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I mean, the other people, no one ever had to
guess or think or in the back of her line
tink maybe he was innocent, you know, maybe I shouldn't
have divorce him or whatever. But I just wonder what
happened to her. How there's other people that had it
lot worse and have lived with women that are prostitutes
and have texing from their kids, I mean for years,
(22:14):
I mean whatever. So I mean, and they don't kill
people because so I think it had to be in
his makeup to be able to you.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Know, I mean, yeah, Lynd, I agree. I think I
think it takes both, because, like you said, there's people
that go through terrible things, but they don't go down
that path. So I think there has to be something
in their makeup and their brain whatever their personality, and
then they experience these things and then that's a bad mix,
you know, it turns into something different than what it
does for other people.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, that's why I'm positive that he'd done it before too,
because there's no hesitation. You know, he had everything planned out,
and I think it's someone who was going to kill
for the first time. They wouldn't have been It wouldn't
have he wouldn't have been so easy with it, you know,
or you know, they wouldn't have been. So I don't know.
(23:06):
I can't even explain it, but I just I know
he killed the other women. Of course, now there's proof
that there is.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Now you were talking about his brother, Wayne, and why
is it that you were afraid of Wayne? It's just
because he was you his brother, or was there something
you noticed.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Or the two of them were there at the club together,
both them spending money, and supposedly I was going to
be with Jerry Johnston and Shannon was going to be
with the brother. But Shannon couldn't get off work for
another hour, so we were going to go and she
was going to meet us as a holiday inn. So
(23:45):
at the time I didn't know whether it was him
and they in on it together or you know, I
had no idea.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Did you ever think or did he give you reason
to believe that he could be violent too?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
No, not really, I guess just from he he you know,
he had he was missing a hand and he didn't
have like a like what they have now, fancy anything
or in fact, he didn't even have a claw. I
don't think I kept if he did, it's just a claw,
but he so, he just looked kind of menacing anyway.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, from what I read, he was pretty quiet. Is
that the way you remember it?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That's what I was just there to say. He barely
said anything. He was Jerry John's was definitely the the
one in charge, like the big brother or the you know,
the talk for the and the other guy just kind
of he was nice, but he didn't he didn't say
much things, okay, and I never saw him again. Once
we got to the hotel, I said, he went to
(24:42):
his room, and I went with Jerry to his room,
and I never saw I never saw a brother again.
But I had that at the time. I had no
idea about if they were going around the Kintry killing
these women, because I knew that it was something.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
It was.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
It didn't just happen. He didn't kill me because he
was mad at me or good for drugs or anything.
He did it because I guess he hated prostitutes or
you know, I didn't think you could hear the dear
he was designed and all of a sudden, I'm sure
you won't tell me. Yeah, at the first mean murdy set.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Let's stop here for another quick.
Speaker 8 (25:28):
Break murder one on one.
Speaker 7 (25:45):
Hey, this is Riley Woodson. I'm here with Marley and
we are about to get ready for basketball practice today.
And it's been a really busy week. I talked to
mister Campbell today and he's he heard back from Typeicanoo
County about our presentation and unfortunately they said that they
won't be able to discuss an open case over zoom call. So, yeah,
(26:06):
that's been pretty unfortunate.
Speaker 9 (26:07):
Yeah, that sucks, but we're hoping to be able to
interview de Soto County Police.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
So yeah, we're hoping maybe we can hear back from
them and get back to it in the new year.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
I was speaking with Scott Barker. He is the FBI,
a former FBI a special agent who worked as a
behavioral analyst, analyst who worked with our students a few
years ago to teach them how to profile and then
tell them if their profile was good. And so he's
now retired and he's got a little more time on
(26:41):
his hands, and so I was talking to him about
the case, and I asked him if he'd be willing
to hear from you all about the DeSoto County Jane
Doe and Tracy Walker, and have you kind of share
with him what you found and then compare that to
kind of the I guess you'd say, like the combined
victim demology profile of the other victims to see if
(27:03):
it really looks like they're probably linked to the same person.
So he would like to do that sometime next week.
Do you guys think you could be ready to present
next week? Yeah, And so anything you can add in
there about his m you know, how the victim was
left or body was posed, or clothing or you know,
(27:24):
how they or whatever, and then you know how they
were disposed of how far off the road. I try
to put a lot of that stuff in there, but
you might be able to find some like even more
specific things and see what you can come up with.
Speaker 10 (27:35):
All right, are there like any ways we could contact
people he may have been like incarcerated with, or anyway
to find that. I know, like it can be hard
to Well, he.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Might be able to find some prison records. Yeah, and
see who he shared a cell with. That is a
possibility because I.
Speaker 10 (27:53):
Think like they'd be aways who he truly was, because
now he's caught. I mean, he doesn't really have this
show to it on. I think it'd be interesting to
see how he paid in prison.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I tell you what's really interesting is to look at
the way he talked to Lynda and treated her, which
we have plain information on that, see how he talked
after he was arrested, and then read the letters from
friends and family that they wrote at the sentencing phase.
For every single one of them talked about what a
(28:24):
good family man he was, and how good he was
to his wife, and how much it hurt him when
his son died, and how he works so hard to
provide it for the family. But that is like how
serial killers operate, you know. Harvey Cleckley called that the
mask of sanity. They know their desires and true feelings
aren't normal. They know that people would be afraid of
(28:45):
them or not like them. I wouldn't want to be
their friend if they really knew how they were, So
they know how to hide that in front of people,
even people closest to him. But just like Harvey Cleckley said,
sometimes when you wear a mask, it gets loose and
slips down on your face a little bit and other
people can see like a little glimpse of what's behind it.
You can see those glimpses, you know, like for example,
(29:06):
when he told them, I'm going to kill you, and
she said why, Like I haven't done anything to you,
Why would you do that? And he said, because you're
a nuisance. So you know, he sees prostitutes or whatever
as a nuisance and they need to be gotten rid
of or there's no problem in getting rid of them,
or nobody will miss them if I get rid of them.
Speaker 10 (29:25):
I definitely like looking at the history with his mother
as well, because that's typically where that hatred Foy stems from. Yeah,
I'm curious just to see her history.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Well, there's our belt. I think that means we have
to go to school and learn how to do math
and science and all that kind of stuff. But so
you guys know what you're working on. Yes, I will
let you know on Monday the confirmed time to speak
with Scott Barker, and then it's probably gonna be Thursday though,
paying thirsty and you guys be ready to present to him.
You excited?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Sounds good?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I can't wait to see what he says.
Speaker 10 (29:57):
Yeah, I think, like you said, like the research one
not having the research for like, the facts speak for
themselves too, Like it's not even like we have to
mold it or shape it into it to look a certain.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
Way, Like it's just there.
Speaker 10 (30:10):
Yeah, which I think it makes our jobs.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I mean, confirmation bias is a thing, right, You get
into it and you kind of want it to happen,
and you don't even realize that you're doing things to
make it look more likely that it happened. It's always
good to have somebody who's outside and undetached and hasn't
spent this time on to spot those things. But also
it's important for us to understand if we see those
things in ourselves, let's try not to do that. Don't
just find information that supports our theory, let's just travel
(30:34):
over all the informations. So well, guys, have a great day,
you have a good Friday and good weekend, and we'll
pick back up next week.
Speaker 10 (30:40):
Sounds great.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Between school and basketball, Riley and Marley were incredibly busy,
but they still made time to join mister Campbell before school.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I am headed home for practice right now, and it
was a pretty good day. I got back my Calculus
test today. I got a hundreds. I was really really
happy about that because I did not say that is
very well, but I was really happy with that. I
went in late today because we went to the UC
basketball game last night against Alcorn today. That was really fun.
(31:13):
We really enjoyed it. We we didn't get back to late.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But while I was.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Getting ready this morning, I'm really hit me and it's
been on my mind a lot lately because as women's
young women in this country, and as young men, as
old women, as old men, as anybody, as a person
in this world, you have to be so cautious. We
don't live in a time where we can leave our
doors on locks anymore, and we can leave our car
(31:39):
doors on locked. It's sad that we have to live
on edge, but it's just the world that we live in.
Our world is evil, and now there is evil out
there like there needs to be some good come out
of it. These women did not need to lose their
lives in things. We need to grow and we need
to bring justice to these women. They did not deserves,
(32:01):
so these stories cannot be told. I know that they
were targeted because they were considered maybe less dead by
Jerry Leon John or some individuals just because they were
maybe prostitutes, or they were runaway or they were huge highers.
These people that killed them thought they don't have any family,
Nobody cares about them. They're runaways, they don't have a
home to go back to. No one's gonna miss them
(32:23):
if I take their lives. We need to prove these
evil people wrong because the truth is that these women
all had children, sisters, mothers, They were somebody's daughter. They
were loved by somebody and it's not fair that they
were taken and they don't have a voice anymore. We
have to be a voice for these women. We have
to be a voice for those who can't speak anymore.
(32:44):
If I can help somewhat in that battle for justice
for these women, or for justice for anybody who's taken
to me, I'm gonna do my very best, because it
could be it could be me, It could be you,
It could be your younger daughter, it could be your mother,
it could be anybody's in your life, and you don't
think he is until it's too late. These women doesn't
(33:07):
have someone fight for them and fight for their lives
because it's taken from a man with a coward who
was evil and who did not deserve to determine whether
or not these women not deliver or die.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
And it's so unfair.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'm getting a little notional because it's just not They
didn't deserve any of this, and they definitely don't deserve
for their stories not to be told or to be
less Jacos. We need to find these women because there's
someone out there that cares about them. The more time
that goes on, the longer time passes, we're just wasting
more time. Evidence is degrading, getting worse for losing any
(33:46):
possibility of matching these women and finding them out who
they are. Their family members are dying We've just got
to get on the ball and got to get justice
for these women. It's not fair. It is not fair
that I just live my life freely every single day
when a woman who was doing the exact same thing
about her life taken.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
First semester came to a close and the club dismantled
for winter break, but they reconvened in the new year
as Riley and Marley continue to come in before school.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
I am getting ready for school right now. It is
six forty six am, so I'm still slightly asleep.
Speaker 10 (34:23):
But we didn't get home last night till really late.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
We had a basketball.
Speaker 7 (34:27):
Game west Ridge High School. We had a full sweep
for the girls or debut one or orse one. It
is a pretty good naped, pretty successful not it won
pretty big, played well, so I'm really really happy about that.
And then after the game, I was sitting and talking
to my grandma and I'll send her about the case and.
Speaker 9 (34:47):
We're just discussing it.
Speaker 7 (34:49):
I told her about Keina Farmer, who is one of
Jailian John's confirmed victims.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I'll have church not after practice. We'll have practice from.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
Three six this afternoon, and we're just heading straight to
church and then I'll come home and do it all
again tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Good morning, ladies, Good morning. It is now our spring semester.
How does it feel to be starting your second semester school?
This year?
Speaker 10 (35:20):
Overwhelming?
Speaker 7 (35:22):
Really was us?
Speaker 9 (35:24):
Junior years is really hard in general.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Well, I've got bad news for you. We're gonna cram
in here too. We've got a lot of stuff that
you guys have been working on, and it's kind of
just coming to a point where some big things need
to happen. So I said, you know, here's what I'd
like to do. I would like to present our information
to a district attorney and let them see. So I
(35:46):
found our former assistant district attorney in our county and
he has agreed to come and listen and see the evidence.
So he wants to come and listen next week. How
do we show them that there's a connection between ten
farmer Land and a lot of these other crimes, and
then we need to talk about them and the signature, remember,
(36:06):
is what offenders do to an affect, an escape or
to keep them from being caught. The profiler tells me
there's four things you must have to prove it's the
same person. One of them is the geography, one of
them is the time, one of them is the mo
and one of them is the signature. Okay, so that's
to prove that there is a serial killer in operation.
But the district attorney is going to want to know
(36:27):
what's my evidence I could take to trial. That's gonna
be the ligatures were the same, they disappeared from the
same area, they should back up in the same area.
You know, they're going to want to know some of
those things because when they take it to a jury,
what's the jury want to hear. It's a circumstantial case,
but a lot of people being convicted on circumstantial evidence,
but you better have some good circumstantial evidence. Yeah, and
then you know what does detective want to hear? What
(36:49):
he wants to hear probably what he would look for.
So I think with all those things we can that
would probably cover it all. And we can figure out
here in a second how to divide that up. So
what do you think? It's pretty good plan if we
did like the end of next week.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Sometimes, yeah, for Sureay.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Is anybody excited?
Speaker 10 (37:06):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Is anybody a little bit scared?
Speaker 7 (37:08):
A little scared?
Speaker 4 (37:09):
It is you know, you're going to stand up there
and present a body of evidence to somebody who's an expert.
They've done this for twenty thirty years. Yeah, you're not
a police officer. You haven't had official training on this,
but you've done a lot of work and you've done
a lot of research, and so it's okay to be
a little nervous. And they're very nice people, of course,
who are going to come and listen to you. But
(37:29):
you know, the next thing is what happens when they
say something to us, Like if I was the assistant
district attorney, I take it.
Speaker 6 (37:36):
Yeah, I don't know, like I feel like it's going
to really really bother me. If like the former district
attorney is like yeah, I would totally do something about that,
And then we don't have like the people who can
do something.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
About that, Like the original students. In twenty eighteen, Riley
and Marley had an idea to raise awareness.
Speaker 9 (37:57):
People hearing about Tina Farmer.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
You know, knowing that they're knowledge can make an impact,
you know, I think that could encourage a lot more
people to bring more attention.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
You know, yeah, just for like we live here. If
we put it on the news from the newspaper. I
think it would be really eye catching for so many
people here, just where there.
Speaker 10 (38:13):
Was like a Green County viging that way.
Speaker 9 (38:16):
I think you have excellent audia.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
More on that next time. Murder one oh one is
executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew
Arnot and me Jeff Shane. Additional producing by Connor Powell
and Gabriel Castillo, Editing by Jeff Twa and Davey Cooper Wasser,
(38:43):
Music by Vanikor Music. Murder one oh one is a
production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts
from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Youssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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