February 21, 2024 • 33 mins
Alex continues to ask more questions to find out more about their interaction with the accused Jerry Johns and what exactly that day looked like.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
A group of high school student High school students Elizabeth
and high school students started a project to research a
string of unsolved murders. Their research led to the identification
of the killer.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year
old question.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Once you start getting a few tips, or a few leads,
or few identifications, then the cold case isn't so cold anymore.
There's a pretty good chance he's still live. Everything that
the students predicted through their profile turned out to be accurate.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Redhead killer profile mal Caucasian, five nine, six hundred and
seventy pounds, unstable home, absent father, and a domineering mother,
right handed IQ above one hundred, most likely heterosexual.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
There is no profile of this killer except for the
ones the students created.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Just because some of these women no longer have people
to speak for them does not mean that they desire
to not be so anymore.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
What if this what do you mean?
Speaker 7 (00:58):
Comes after?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
This is Murder one oh one, Season one, episode seven, Nuisance.
I'm Jeff Shane, a television and podcast producer at Katie
Studios with Stephanie Leidecker, Courtney Armstrong, and Andrew Arnoult. Mister
Campbell was eager to contact surviving victim Linda to ask
(01:24):
her more questions and find out about her interactions with
Jerry Johns, the man who was allegedly the Bible belt strangler.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Did you how do you pick the case?
Speaker 6 (01:37):
I mean, how in the world would you come up with?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, the reason I was, I guess I was drawn
was we were actually working I was teaching sociology and
we were working with a teacher who was down the hall,
and he is the criminal justice teacher, and so we
decided to kind of team up and put our classes together,
and we were trying to look at the only cold
case murder in our county that was unsolved. And so
(02:00):
it was a redheaded teenage girl and she it was
not so she's not really you wouldn't know her name
because she was, oh, sorry, what it's okay. She she
wasn't related those to any of those cases. What we
found out is that most of the police felt she
was They knew who had killed her. It was somebody
(02:20):
here locally that she knew. But whenever I was researching,
you know, I was just going online and see what
I could find about it. And because she was young
and teenager and it was in the eighties and she
had red hair. It started bringing up these things about
these these redhead murders. And you know, I was born
in seventy eight, so I was growing up here in
the eighties and I don't remember anything about it. So
(02:42):
it was just it kind of fascinated me that there
were things happening in East Tennessee where I grew up,
and I had never heard about it. And then when
I talked to people about it, they had never heard
about it either, And so I guess what drew me
to it was if I haven't heard about it and
I live here and nobody else who lives here has
heard about it, how are they ever. I kept reading
the articles and TV I was like, you know, we
(03:02):
hope to get more tips and we need the community
to help us, but if nobody even remembers it, they're
not going to get any tips or help. So I
think that's why the students wanted to look into it,
and I was kind of interested in it. Was because
we wanted to bring attention to it so they could
get some help, so people could call in tips or
they could get some new leads. And actually that's exactly
what happened. That's how Tina Farmer was identified, and I
(03:24):
guess that's the reason I was drawn to the case.
This may come as a surprise. Jerry John's was actually
coutl blinde.
Speaker 6 (03:31):
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
None of us had like red hair. When you think
of red hair. My not a red pint. If you
got out in the sun. It looked like, you know,
you know, like red highlights or something, but not red
writ just you know, strawberry blonders. I don't know that.
Speaker 6 (03:46):
Have you seen the.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Pictures of me in my host or afterwards?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I have, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I don't know. I haven't seen it since that day,
but I mean since the trial, I guess.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But yeah, that's that's what it looked me. Looked like
a dark kind of auburn, you know. And I could
I could tell it had the silence.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It was It wasn't did any intentionally get red? And
I just they just had a red tent to it.
So and it was different colors.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
What I was born with.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So but what he said, what at the very last second,
it wasn't. I said, are you gonna kill me? He
said yes, And that's not any things he really mean,
you know, mean like just oh god, yes, I said
why he said, You're a nuisance and that was it.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It was important to understand how the abduction occurred and
what Jerry John's behavior was like.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So had he been I guess when you first met
him or throughout the night?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Did he was?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
He like charming or what kind of person was he?
At first?
Speaker 6 (04:48):
He was it was just nice.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And I was in a really really, really bad movie
and I had this friend who had much loose shirt,
more room than I did, and would do just about anything.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
And she told me about these guys.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
With these hundred dollar bills and for me, you know,
so I don't I mean, if I normally didn't do that,
I mean it. It's I don't think I've ever left
the stranger ever before, but you know, there were a
couple of guys that had paid me money, but not
never had I just left the put, you know, with
(05:25):
someone like that. And even at the child they didn't
believe that, but I remember this. One of my neighbors
testified that I didn't even know he was confie and
they said, well, she's probably slept.
Speaker 6 (05:40):
With him or something.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And the judge said, she's frosted she probably slept with
all of them, which is far from true. Of course,
I never slept with him. He was you know, I
mean not of course, I guess he didn't. Johnny didn't
know that. He just assumed that since I, you know,
read the medium and stuff, that that's what kind of
person I was. And I I mean, I was no innocent.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
I mean just that.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I mean from everybody I've spoken to, Jerry John's was
a very at times, I guess he was a very
likable person. They said he made friends easily. He actually
stole a lot of cars because people trusted him, even
at like car lots, to take it for a test drive,
and then he would just drive off with it. So
I was just curious if you had seen him as,
(06:28):
you know, a likable, kind of normal, jovial, you know,
kind of person at first.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, actually when we went to Lee's, I don't know
what happened to Shanon. We had different cars, and I
guess Jerry and his brother had different cars. And I
followed Jerry Johnson the hotel and the entire way there.
I was so scared I wanted to turn off.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
I was.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I was so scared, and I was even praying, because
I just I didn't want to go. I wanted to
and then I kept thinking, I've got two halfs to
these hundred dollars bills, and he'll kill me over him
if I don't show up, and that I said a
thousand times. I started to turn off and don't follow him.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
But if I.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Hadn't had those hundred dollars half hundred dollars bills in
my purse, I would I would have I wouldn't have drunk.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
But he was nice.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I'm not. He never said anything ugly. And when he
pulled in and said told me was this, well, he
put the gun on me and told me to get
in my car, and he drove and told me he
was a Texas ranger and that he was looking for drugs.
So he looked at my arms and he said, well,
you're not a drug user, but you know people i've
met the dust drugs. So we're going to find Shannon.
(07:42):
And then eventually he said, I'm going to drop you
off here in these woods, and he'd already tied my
hands and stuff, and he said, I'm gonna leave you
here until I find her, because I don't want you
warning her or whatever so that she can help them
find somebody that's selling drugs. Of course, I had no
idea that Texas Ranger didn't have couldn't arrest people here
(08:02):
or whatever. I mean, I've never dealt with love before,
so I just I, you know, back then, policemen told
you do something, you did it, you know, And that's honestly.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
What I thought until the very last minute, I guess, but.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
He was really he never Oh, I doesn't know that.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
I was going to tell you.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
When he was turned my hate or you know, turned
my hands up, he I said, oh, that's that hurts.
That's time. So he loosened it or something keep from
hurting me. Or I said something was uncomfortable. I can't
I'd have to stop and think about it.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
But and he whatever he had tied.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Or moved him, he loosened or put him in a
different way so that I wouldn't be uncomfortable. And then
my attorney, I can't even remember. Before the big trial,
I guess something happened and my attorney said I needed
to sue him even he didn't have any money, would
(09:01):
never have any money.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
And I can't remember right now. Why are my attorney's dead?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Also?
Speaker 5 (09:06):
But he said, you just need to.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Do him, so to be down on paper.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
If he ever does get anything like a book dealer
or something, then you know you'll get your part. But
when I went to sign the papers that said that
he had beaten me all around my face and stuff,
I guess because he you know, he did knew about
the brook and I said, bruised and my eyes were
blood chalk for months because of breaking the blood vest.
(09:30):
So I told him, I said, he didn't hit me. Ever,
he was very nice to me, even, you know, made
sure I was comfortable while I was being tied up,
and he said, well that's okay because as you lost
consciousness and he drugged you in put you in the covert.
He I'm sure he hit hit and scratched and on
the way or something like that. And so I was
(09:52):
very very timid and shying. I just went ahead and
signed it so that part he never hit me, he
like I said, he you know, he wanted to make sure.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
And he was nice.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
When we got there. He ordered a pizza and I'm like,
because I mean, I've never met him before. Yeah, he
was just there and and he offered he gave me
two half hundred dollar bills and sending to half hundred
dollar bills, and then he had a whole stack of
hundreds and said there's more, you know. But by the
(10:23):
time I got there, and I was so scared that
when it was over, I just wanted to leave. I
didn't care if I got the other half. In fact,
I didn't ask for him. I just wanted out of there.
And then he said he'd walk into my car because
it's dangerous. And that's when he when we're outside of
the car, Oh yeah, I know. I was gonna tell
you that's car I had that, you know, the two
(10:44):
agc X, which was the I mean it wasn't brand new,
but it was had louvers, he key tops. I mean,
it was snishes for a car.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
Anyway, he said, what'd you give to this car?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And I think, like fifteen thousand, I don't know. He said,
I've got, you know, fifty seven car or however many
twelve cars, eighteen I don't know what the number was,
and all of mine together. He don't come to that.
It's like he was upset because I paid that much money.
I guess he thought what I was doing to earn
the money wasn't right. And I was using it. I
(11:17):
used it to buy a car that he couldn't afford something.
I guess it's the way it sounded to me.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
So even like when he parked the car and you
were walking off the side of the road, you felt
like he was just gonna leave you there, and you
really you felt like he was still a police officer.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, he said he was gonna he was just don't
leave me there, and it wait for a few miles
down the road from the place where we were working,
and he was gonna go back and get shining and
then come back and get me. That he couldn't have
me in the car when you really get hurts, so
that I could because i'd warn him, or I could come.
(11:53):
I don't know whether we're no cellphones rinsing back then,
but somebody he was afraid of Warner or something, and
so that's what he said he was going to do,
just leave me there in the off the side roasiness
that time into a tree or something. I don't know.
Is what I can't remember exactly that my hands were tied.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Murder one on.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
One, let me ask you this like, when did you
realize that you were unsafe? You know, at what point
did he say something or did something change that you
realize like, oh, my life's in danger.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, that the very minute it happened, he had like
he said, he held the gun on me, and he oh,
I know. He kept saying if I tried to escape,
if I tried to get out of the car, run,
then he would he would shoot me and say that
I tried to escape, which I believed there were word
of because he was this policeman that they you know,
(13:08):
Texas Ranger and he was here to find somebody that's
telling drugs and arrest them. And he said it's I ran.
That he'd cheat me back and that he said I
tried to run, so that's why. And then when we stopped,
he looked at he was ring slow along the interstate,
(13:29):
and I think, I'm not ask him what he was
doing or looking for him say I'm looking for a
place where I can leave you until I go back
and get your friend Salmon, and then I'll come back
and get you. And I still thought, or maybe it's
hopeful that that's what he meant to do. And at
this first time he sounded mean or ugly. Was when
(13:50):
I said, are you going to kill me? And his
whole demeanor everything changed. He said yes, and that's that
I knew of. And I said why, and he said,
you're a nuisance and that was it. But the very
last second was the only time I actually really knew
that he was gonna do anything to hurt me, I guess.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And so that was after you had already gotten out
of the car and walked over to the side of
the road.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
That's when you ask him, yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
We were in the woods.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
You know, down there he had I guess maybe I
had had my feet tied or something. So but whatever
it was, he fixed it to where I could walk
when we got out of the car. And then when
we got down there, like it was down a little bank,
and he was gonna leave me there. I don't know
if he said he's gonna I don't know how he
(14:40):
said I was gonna stay there. Probably tied me to
a tree or something, I don't know, but he that's
when he took the piece of the T shirt he
ripped into shrip, he ripped into pieces to tie me up.
So one of the pieces, maybe it was the ones
that was around my leg. I can't remember running he
wrapped it. He started rapping it around his fingers. That's
why i'm That's when I said, are you going to
(15:02):
kill me? Because that's when I saw him wrapping that
thing around his fingers, and for some reason, I knew
he was going.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
To strangle me.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
That is one thing I would like to ask about
because some of the other victims, even ones who had
been dead for many years. I am finding online that
there were ligatures made of cloth, you know, clothing near
those bodies, and I feel like that could actually be
something that could help them determine if he was involved.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes, there was another thing I meant to tell you
is I'm interrupting you, but I forget if.
Speaker 6 (15:36):
I don't say it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
The knot that he tied after he strangled me, the
naughty tide was some sort of fancy knot that most
people don't know. And what I don't remember what right
had no idea, But every woman, all these women when
they came, when they people came from these different states,
all these women had had been there. The knot they
(15:59):
it was tied was exactly the same with whatever material
was there that he had. Somebody had tied that same
exact knot. And that's one of the reasons they put
the cases. They thought they might you know, people came
up from Mississippi or we're all different states. That's what
they were going.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
But then the judge that the media, god bless them,
kept talking about, you know, every single day it was
in the paper, but the Redhead murders, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But the judge said made them stop it and said
they were none of that. Nobody was allowed to mention
or say anything about anything.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Said what happened to me?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Because if if they kept on, he would get off
on a technicality, because because it would paint the jury
or something. That's why they all of a sudden worried
about or just quit.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
It wasn't that they didn't find anything to tie them together.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
It's just that the judge made them quit.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And then when they sentenced him, the judge looked and
he said he never ever wanted him to see the
light of day again. And they gave him different sentences.
Had come to one hundred and some years or something
plus thirty days, and they said the thirty days at
it on. There was what was some teaching in jail
for the rest of his life, and that I didn't
(17:19):
even have to be at the things where you you know,
where he goes and tries to get out in a
parole board or whatever, because he said there's no way
they'd ever let him out, so I'd never even have
to go there and testified or whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I'm sorry, I can I ask you about the knots.
So did he did he cut the shirt with a
knife or did he rip it up?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Like?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
How did he do that?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Did might have cut it with a knife, but he
ripped it into like one or two inch strips. He
ripped the shirt, the T shirt I was wearing, he
ripped it into these all into these numerous strips. I
don't know. Several could have been ten could and I
don't know. I can't remember.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
And he may have started out cutting.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Them, but I know he ripped them in.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
I think he just ripped them.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Now, was that in the car or did he do that?
It's a hotel. When did he do that in the car?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
When we had gone back to the catch one and
we were in the second parking lot, there was a
regular parking lot and then there was like an overflowed
parking lot where big rigs could sit or if they
had overflowed, you know, but nobody was there that ours
was the only car, and like it he was driving,
and he said that we'd gone back there to wait
(18:34):
on chin. And that's when he tied me.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
Up and he told me to give me that what
he was going to do, and everything that he did,
he ripped it up and used it to tie my
hands and feet and that was when I, you know,
I just thought of something that happened that he said.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Something that hadn't said.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Well, can I ask you about the shirt?
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Were you wearing it and he made you take it off?
Or did he have it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Already or yeah, it was a T shirt. I was
wearing a T shirt. I wearing jeans and a T
shirt and a black leather coat. And I'm assuming a
broad I don't know, but he took my T shirt off,
but I'm pretty sure I must have had a shirt
under it or something or a bra and I had
I know I had the black The black jacket saved
(19:27):
my life.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
How is that?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
A corner of that jacket got in stuck underneath the
stretchy tied around my neck. And when I woke dot
conscious head again, I pulled and it came out, and
it still wasn't enough room for me to breathe, but
it was enough for me to start using my fingers
and picking at it. And I thought, sure he was
(19:51):
just watching me, to not watch me suffer. But I
still kept pulling and pulling, and I felt around and
I was in that covert and I was I thought
I was blind for life and deformed because my eyes
around on my face, you know they and it didn't matter.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
I wanted to live.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So I blind climbed the hill I had still, you know,
I had to find I Celtics, and I staggered.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Onto the highway and the truck.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
That stopped almost run over me, and some I had
broken my hands apart, I think I had. At the
very top hill, I had finally gotten the thing around
my neck broke with and I was sticking with his
consciousness again and for somehow I got off there.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
Well, then I had.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
These I had blood started just pouring out of my
nose when the when I got breath, and so here
I was got these two strings tied around my hands,
dripping blood, and so they thought I was shooting up
drugs up the guys in the truck.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
That almost run over me. I staggered out in front.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Of them, covered in blood, and like I tied.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Up my arm, you know, they tied their arm to
shoot up.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And so they thought they were afraid I was gonna
die in the truck. So there was the only one in,
a younger one, and I could hear them saying, nope,
we keep there in trucks.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
She'll die in the truck. And they're in a company truck.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And then they had called I guess on the hoodie thing.
Sometimes I think these are the people are gonna kill me,
because I remember Jerry John's had this brother.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
So I didn't know how many they were.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know, And so I started to take off running around.
Even when the policeman to put me in the Baptist
car to take to the hospital, he was afraid to
wait on the ambulance, so I died before it got there.
So I was I was screaming, don't kill me, don't
kill me. He's gonna kill my.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Friend, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And they brought that out child because I'd say he
or them, because sometimes I'd be talking about he Jerry
Johnson was gonna chill her or them. Jerry Johnson brother
was gonna kill him. So it's like I was just
making stuff up, saying here them. At the time, I
had had no idea. I hadn't seen the brother since
we've left, and we all ended up at the hotel
(22:10):
and he went, the brother went to his room, and
then I never did see Shannon.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
So but I said the police the minute.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
That's all I could talk about is the hospital was
go get Shannon, Go get you know, he's gonna kill her.
He's gonna kill her. And so they went and brought
her and.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Let's stop here for another quick break murder one on one.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
You know, I was just sitting here and I'm just
it's just blew me away. You were talking about the
corner of the collar of that jacket like it saved
your life. That's that's amazing, you know that's while you're
still here. Is that that just that collar of that jacket.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
God puts that there? Yeah, there is no doubt in
my mind. And I know which to have a psychiatrist.
And I quit Gold because he told me that God
didn't work that way.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
Well, God does work that way.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
He gets your attention, and I knew what I was
doing was horrible, and he definitely got my attentions, you.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Know, but you know without that, you know, that's what
you feel like allowed you to survive that, and you know,
because of that, you were able to, you know, get
he was able to become arrested, and like you saved
a lot of people. Just that corner of that collary.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
The newspaper said.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
For colliment, he wrote, because.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
They said I acted bad, I played dead, which that's
not true. I wanted to die so bad that I
just collapsed because I wanted to die.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
I wanted to hurt him die, I don't know what.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So I just collapsed like I was already dead, but
then I lost consciousness. But well I'm not. I had
a little bit tun because I remember your leads rustling,
but I never could figure it out until I guess
still allays said and done, and I really I realized
that he had drugged me because I had to take
the home hide people back there and show them the covert,
(24:14):
and of course there was blood on the covert, so
they they you know, they knew what they knew.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
What it's happened.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
But that's that's amazing about the corner of that collar.
That's just that's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, yeah, the news got some of the stuff completely wrong. So,
you know, like I said, there weren't redheaded murders.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
When you had it.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I thought, well, you should have been around and named
it the Bible Belt murders back then, and the said
of the media, and they named them the red headed murders.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
But that's something interesting that my students decided was that,
I mean, there was if you look online and there's
a lot of people victims from late seventies up to
the early nineties, and they're all grouped together as what
they call these redhead murders. But obviously they're not all related.
Some of them are very different. A woman was taken
from her home, you know, a small little boy, so
(25:09):
they're not related obviously. And so the students wanted to
separate all these you know, quote redhead murders into maybe
the people who could be linked to one person who
did it, because there's really no way to talk about,
you know, the people who related to one person, because
they just lumped all these people together. And so that's
(25:30):
why they wanted to give him a name.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And when they had the meeting with all these people
from different states, and it wasn't just the Bible Belt.
There were states around, but I think it's mostly east
or southern, you know, in southwest and southeast, but they
might have been some Indianna too, I can't remember. But
there were like fifty two girls or something that they
(25:54):
questioned me about fifty two different women that had been chilled.
I think seems that or there was a lot of them,
but some of them, like I said, had were that
they were.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
They were either.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Prostitutes or homeless. They had no family or around. You know,
nobody's gonna miss him right away. They had the exact
time knot tied. They were found off major interstates. And
see doesn't wish.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
I wish that Larry Johnson was alive because he could
be bring them for all this.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Or somebody. I don't know anybody that's still alive that
was back then. But there were so many similarities that
they're not.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
I mean, yeah that there was nobody.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, he didn't take them from their home.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
With their little boy or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And there's more than the six or eleven or whatever
that there were more of those women that had the
real similarities.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
To what I've been through than what's on that list.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And I don't know how I could get a list
of those people.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Well, i'll share with you. We have spoken to a
TBI agent who was part of this. He had done
some investigations, and he told us that we would never
know the true number because he said sometimes he would
get a call by a corner and he would travel
to another state or another county and they would show
(27:19):
him a body and he'd say, now, we called you
because we think this might be related to your case,
and so he would look at the body. But then
they would have you know, the corners results and it
would say or the autopsy results and it would say
drug overdose. And he would say, well, why did you
call me on a drug overdose? You know I'm investigating murders.
And they said, well, it's obvious she was strangled, but
(27:39):
because we found signs that she was using drugs, we
didn't want to waste a lot of time on this case,
so we just labeled it as an overdose. So he
told me that we would never be able to find
those because they're not even listed as murders.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, I'm like, I'm sure they'll never find him.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
They probably.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I'm sure I have never found all the bodies because
I wasn't the first one, that's for sure. He knew
what he was doing.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
And you know, can I ask you what made you
think that he knew what he was doing or hed
done it before?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well I didn't think any of that, of course at first.
But everything was worked out so perfectly. You know, he
he knew where to park my car in the corner
of that parking lot, and he knew to walk me
to my car, and he stole my car, and they
said he had numerous other He had a briefcase with
him that had dozens of uh, stolen titles.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
I guess what the cars because he had lot his
stolen cars, and.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You know, and they took me down that covert where
evidently he had done a lot of them in that way.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
And yeah, so like his story, like him being a
police officer, you feel like he had done that before,
and he was very convincing or oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I believe they every word of it. He looked at
my arms to see if I'd had any marks on him,
And where would you look for drugs more than you know,
a place like that, you know, and you know, we
just I thought it was a Texas ranger. I mean,
I honestly did he acted like it, and I don't know.
(29:16):
When I saw he's done, it seemed like a thought
And he said this because he had he was a
Texas languer. I mean, I'm like I said, I didn't
know Texas Rangers.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
Weren't allowed to practice anywhere with Texas you know.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Can I ask you a question about the knots? Did
he seem like he had tied those knots before? Did
he have any trouble? Did you know exactly what he
was doing?
Speaker 5 (29:39):
No?
Speaker 6 (29:39):
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I begged that.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I mean about him when he was tying the knots
in your shirt and things? Did it seem like he
knew exactly what he was doing, like he had practiced
or he had done that before?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
When he tore up my shirt?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
He did?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Because I thought, who was he just thoughts take my
t shirt off and read it up to time? Up
with that?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
That just don't Who would have thought that?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And he didn't came? He not, Well, I don't know,
you did not.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
He had to have tied some sort of knots so
I wouldn't get loose, But at the time it didn't.
I didn't know any difference not with a knot. I
mean they say it was some sort of special have
you that you learned I don't know, in the service
or or something, or.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Well, I have some pictures of that. They actually preserve
those in the case file in Nashville, So I have
pictures of those that I've looked at, and they're I
don't I can't say they're complicated. I don't know enough
about knots, but there's there's a lot of knots like
tied on top of knots with that, and so I'm
trying to find somebody who's an expert with knots to
to say, is that is there a certain name to
(30:46):
that type of knot or is there a place where
you learn it? So we're trying to look into that.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah there, Well I don't I know.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
It's why I wish that I.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Had if that's the third they told me that. Of
course I didn't know anything aboutnots, but they're the ones
that Toby and they said it was like, okay, if
you're standing behind me and you strangle someone.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
And they it was.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I can't says on the left side they were even
in the same position. I guess on the women, you know,
like when you sit it's doing your dishes, you always
put your spine a certain place, you know.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
I mean, I guess it's how I thought about it.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Whatever, just and I can't remember all the other similarities,
but there were other similarities. I mean, most of the
women I think were at my height, and they weren't
saying people, you know, they they nobody would be looking
for them for a while.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
And well, just going back to something that you said
that they showed you lots of different pictures of women.
And I mean, did you feel like he had it
in him to kill a lot of other people?
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I knew, without a doubt killed other people. I mean
there was when a minute he said yes and then
he's just you know, I was met. Oh, when he
took me down the hill that he told the gun
on me, like when we were walking down or while
we were there, is when he told the gun on
me and I screamed and he told me to shut
(32:21):
up or he shoot me, and I shut up. For
this day, I'm not sure how I did. I mean,
there's no doubt in my mind that he killed lives
to live well, like she will never know how many.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
And I hope for their.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Family's sake, we can find some of them and give them.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
Well closure, what you know, whatever.
Speaker 7 (32:43):
But I know he's just.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
In fact, all these years, I wanted to go and
look at him and say why, why you know?
Speaker 6 (32:52):
But I never could.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
More on that next time. Murder one oh one is
executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew
Arnot and me Jeff Shane. Additional producing by Connor Powell
and Gabriel Castillo. Editing by Jeff Twa and Davey Cooper Wasser.
(33:20):
Music by Vancor Music. Murder one oh one is a
production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
A group of high school student High school students Elizabeth
and high school students started a project to research a
string of unsolved murders. Their research led to the identification
of the killer.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year
old question.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Once you start getting a few tips, or a few leads,
or few identifications, then the cold case isn't so cold anymore.
There's a pretty good chance he's still live. Everything that
the students predicted through their profile turned out to be accurate.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Redhead killer profile mal Caucasian, five nine, six hundred and
seventy pounds, unstable home, absent father, and a domineering mother,
right handed IQ above one hundred, most likely heterosexual.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
There is no profile of this killer except for the
ones the students created.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Just because some of these women no longer have people
to speak for them does not mean that they desire
to not be so anymore.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
What if this what do you mean?
Speaker 7 (00:58):
Comes after?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
This is Murder one oh one, Season one, episode seven, Nuisance.
I'm Jeff Shane, a television and podcast producer at Katie
Studios with Stephanie Leidecker, Courtney Armstrong, and Andrew Arnoult. Mister
Campbell was eager to contact surviving victim Linda to ask
(01:24):
her more questions and find out about her interactions with
Jerry Johns, the man who was allegedly the Bible belt strangler.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Did you how do you pick the case?
Speaker 6 (01:37):
I mean, how in the world would you come up with?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, the reason I was, I guess I was drawn
was we were actually working I was teaching sociology and
we were working with a teacher who was down the hall,
and he is the criminal justice teacher, and so we
decided to kind of team up and put our classes together,
and we were trying to look at the only cold
case murder in our county that was unsolved. And so
(02:00):
it was a redheaded teenage girl and she it was
not so she's not really you wouldn't know her name
because she was, oh, sorry, what it's okay. She she
wasn't related those to any of those cases. What we
found out is that most of the police felt she
was They knew who had killed her. It was somebody
(02:20):
here locally that she knew. But whenever I was researching,
you know, I was just going online and see what
I could find about it. And because she was young
and teenager and it was in the eighties and she
had red hair. It started bringing up these things about
these these redhead murders. And you know, I was born
in seventy eight, so I was growing up here in
the eighties and I don't remember anything about it. So
(02:42):
it was just it kind of fascinated me that there
were things happening in East Tennessee where I grew up,
and I had never heard about it. And then when
I talked to people about it, they had never heard
about it either, And so I guess what drew me
to it was if I haven't heard about it and
I live here and nobody else who lives here has
heard about it, how are they ever. I kept reading
the articles and TV I was like, you know, we
(03:02):
hope to get more tips and we need the community
to help us, but if nobody even remembers it, they're
not going to get any tips or help. So I
think that's why the students wanted to look into it,
and I was kind of interested in it. Was because
we wanted to bring attention to it so they could
get some help, so people could call in tips or
they could get some new leads. And actually that's exactly
what happened. That's how Tina Farmer was identified, and I
(03:24):
guess that's the reason I was drawn to the case.
This may come as a surprise. Jerry John's was actually
coutl blinde.
Speaker 6 (03:31):
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
None of us had like red hair. When you think
of red hair. My not a red pint. If you
got out in the sun. It looked like, you know,
you know, like red highlights or something, but not red
writ just you know, strawberry blonders. I don't know that.
Speaker 6 (03:46):
Have you seen the.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Pictures of me in my host or afterwards?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I have, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I don't know. I haven't seen it since that day,
but I mean since the trial, I guess.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But yeah, that's that's what it looked me. Looked like
a dark kind of auburn, you know. And I could
I could tell it had the silence.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It was It wasn't did any intentionally get red? And
I just they just had a red tent to it.
So and it was different colors.
Speaker 6 (04:15):
What I was born with.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So but what he said, what at the very last second,
it wasn't. I said, are you gonna kill me? He
said yes, And that's not any things he really mean,
you know, mean like just oh god, yes, I said
why he said, You're a nuisance and that was it.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It was important to understand how the abduction occurred and
what Jerry John's behavior was like.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So had he been I guess when you first met
him or throughout the night?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Did he was?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
He like charming or what kind of person was he?
At first?
Speaker 6 (04:48):
He was it was just nice.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And I was in a really really, really bad movie
and I had this friend who had much loose shirt,
more room than I did, and would do just about anything.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
And she told me about these guys.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
With these hundred dollar bills and for me, you know,
so I don't I mean, if I normally didn't do that,
I mean it. It's I don't think I've ever left
the stranger ever before, but you know, there were a
couple of guys that had paid me money, but not
never had I just left the put, you know, with
(05:25):
someone like that. And even at the child they didn't
believe that, but I remember this. One of my neighbors
testified that I didn't even know he was confie and
they said, well, she's probably slept.
Speaker 6 (05:40):
With him or something.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And the judge said, she's frosted she probably slept with
all of them, which is far from true. Of course,
I never slept with him. He was you know, I
mean not of course, I guess he didn't. Johnny didn't
know that. He just assumed that since I, you know,
read the medium and stuff, that that's what kind of
person I was. And I I mean, I was no innocent.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
I mean just that.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I mean from everybody I've spoken to, Jerry John's was
a very at times, I guess he was a very
likable person. They said he made friends easily. He actually
stole a lot of cars because people trusted him, even
at like car lots, to take it for a test drive,
and then he would just drive off with it. So
I was just curious if you had seen him as,
(06:28):
you know, a likable, kind of normal, jovial, you know,
kind of person at first.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, actually when we went to Lee's, I don't know
what happened to Shanon. We had different cars, and I
guess Jerry and his brother had different cars. And I
followed Jerry Johnson the hotel and the entire way there.
I was so scared I wanted to turn off.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
I was.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I was so scared, and I was even praying, because
I just I didn't want to go. I wanted to
and then I kept thinking, I've got two halfs to
these hundred dollars bills, and he'll kill me over him
if I don't show up, and that I said a
thousand times. I started to turn off and don't follow him.
Speaker 6 (07:09):
But if I.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Hadn't had those hundred dollars half hundred dollars bills in
my purse, I would I would have I wouldn't have drunk.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
But he was nice.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I'm not. He never said anything ugly. And when he
pulled in and said told me was this, well, he
put the gun on me and told me to get
in my car, and he drove and told me he
was a Texas ranger and that he was looking for drugs.
So he looked at my arms and he said, well,
you're not a drug user, but you know people i've
met the dust drugs. So we're going to find Shannon.
(07:42):
And then eventually he said, I'm going to drop you
off here in these woods, and he'd already tied my
hands and stuff, and he said, I'm gonna leave you
here until I find her, because I don't want you
warning her or whatever so that she can help them
find somebody that's selling drugs. Of course, I had no
idea that Texas Ranger didn't have couldn't arrest people here
(08:02):
or whatever. I mean, I've never dealt with love before,
so I just I, you know, back then, policemen told
you do something, you did it, you know, And that's honestly.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
What I thought until the very last minute, I guess, but.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
He was really he never Oh, I doesn't know that.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
I was going to tell you.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
When he was turned my hate or you know, turned
my hands up, he I said, oh, that's that hurts.
That's time. So he loosened it or something keep from
hurting me. Or I said something was uncomfortable. I can't
I'd have to stop and think about it.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
But and he whatever he had tied.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Or moved him, he loosened or put him in a
different way so that I wouldn't be uncomfortable. And then
my attorney, I can't even remember. Before the big trial,
I guess something happened and my attorney said I needed
to sue him even he didn't have any money, would
(09:01):
never have any money.
Speaker 6 (09:03):
And I can't remember right now. Why are my attorney's dead?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Also?
Speaker 5 (09:06):
But he said, you just need to.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
Do him, so to be down on paper.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
If he ever does get anything like a book dealer
or something, then you know you'll get your part. But
when I went to sign the papers that said that
he had beaten me all around my face and stuff,
I guess because he you know, he did knew about
the brook and I said, bruised and my eyes were
blood chalk for months because of breaking the blood vest.
(09:30):
So I told him, I said, he didn't hit me. Ever,
he was very nice to me, even, you know, made
sure I was comfortable while I was being tied up,
and he said, well that's okay because as you lost
consciousness and he drugged you in put you in the covert.
He I'm sure he hit hit and scratched and on
the way or something like that. And so I was
(09:52):
very very timid and shying. I just went ahead and
signed it so that part he never hit me, he
like I said, he you know, he wanted to make sure.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
And he was nice.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
When we got there. He ordered a pizza and I'm like,
because I mean, I've never met him before. Yeah, he
was just there and and he offered he gave me
two half hundred dollar bills and sending to half hundred
dollar bills, and then he had a whole stack of
hundreds and said there's more, you know. But by the
(10:23):
time I got there, and I was so scared that
when it was over, I just wanted to leave. I
didn't care if I got the other half. In fact,
I didn't ask for him. I just wanted out of there.
And then he said he'd walk into my car because
it's dangerous. And that's when he when we're outside of
the car, Oh yeah, I know. I was gonna tell
you that's car I had that, you know, the two
(10:44):
agc X, which was the I mean it wasn't brand new,
but it was had louvers, he key tops. I mean,
it was snishes for a car.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
Anyway, he said, what'd you give to this car?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
And I think, like fifteen thousand, I don't know. He said,
I've got, you know, fifty seven car or however many
twelve cars, eighteen I don't know what the number was,
and all of mine together. He don't come to that.
It's like he was upset because I paid that much money.
I guess he thought what I was doing to earn
the money wasn't right. And I was using it. I
(11:17):
used it to buy a car that he couldn't afford something.
I guess it's the way it sounded to me.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
So even like when he parked the car and you
were walking off the side of the road, you felt
like he was just gonna leave you there, and you
really you felt like he was still a police officer.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, he said he was gonna he was just don't
leave me there, and it wait for a few miles
down the road from the place where we were working,
and he was gonna go back and get shining and
then come back and get me. That he couldn't have
me in the car when you really get hurts, so
that I could because i'd warn him, or I could come.
(11:53):
I don't know whether we're no cellphones rinsing back then,
but somebody he was afraid of Warner or something, and
so that's what he said he was going to do,
just leave me there in the off the side roasiness
that time into a tree or something. I don't know.
Is what I can't remember exactly that my hands were tied.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Murder one on.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
One, let me ask you this like, when did you
realize that you were unsafe? You know, at what point
did he say something or did something change that you
realize like, oh, my life's in danger.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, that the very minute it happened, he had like
he said, he held the gun on me, and he oh,
I know. He kept saying if I tried to escape,
if I tried to get out of the car, run,
then he would he would shoot me and say that
I tried to escape, which I believed there were word
of because he was this policeman that they you know,
(13:08):
Texas Ranger and he was here to find somebody that's
telling drugs and arrest them. And he said it's I ran.
That he'd cheat me back and that he said I
tried to run, so that's why. And then when we stopped,
he looked at he was ring slow along the interstate,
(13:29):
and I think, I'm not ask him what he was
doing or looking for him say I'm looking for a
place where I can leave you until I go back
and get your friend Salmon, and then I'll come back
and get you. And I still thought, or maybe it's
hopeful that that's what he meant to do. And at
this first time he sounded mean or ugly. Was when
(13:50):
I said, are you going to kill me? And his
whole demeanor everything changed. He said yes, and that's that
I knew of. And I said why, and he said,
you're a nuisance and that was it. But the very
last second was the only time I actually really knew
that he was gonna do anything to hurt me, I guess.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And so that was after you had already gotten out
of the car and walked over to the side of
the road.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
That's when you ask him, yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
We were in the woods.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
You know, down there he had I guess maybe I
had had my feet tied or something. So but whatever
it was, he fixed it to where I could walk
when we got out of the car. And then when
we got down there, like it was down a little bank,
and he was gonna leave me there. I don't know
if he said he's gonna I don't know how he
(14:40):
said I was gonna stay there. Probably tied me to
a tree or something, I don't know, but he that's
when he took the piece of the T shirt he
ripped into shrip, he ripped into pieces to tie me up.
So one of the pieces, maybe it was the ones
that was around my leg. I can't remember running he
wrapped it. He started rapping it around his fingers. That's
why i'm That's when I said, are you going to
(15:02):
kill me? Because that's when I saw him wrapping that
thing around his fingers, and for some reason, I knew
he was going.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
To strangle me.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
That is one thing I would like to ask about
because some of the other victims, even ones who had
been dead for many years. I am finding online that
there were ligatures made of cloth, you know, clothing near
those bodies, and I feel like that could actually be
something that could help them determine if he was involved.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes, there was another thing I meant to tell you
is I'm interrupting you, but I forget if.
Speaker 6 (15:36):
I don't say it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
The knot that he tied after he strangled me, the
naughty tide was some sort of fancy knot that most
people don't know. And what I don't remember what right
had no idea, But every woman, all these women when
they came, when they people came from these different states,
all these women had had been there. The knot they
(15:59):
it was tied was exactly the same with whatever material
was there that he had. Somebody had tied that same
exact knot. And that's one of the reasons they put
the cases. They thought they might you know, people came
up from Mississippi or we're all different states. That's what
they were going.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
But then the judge that the media, god bless them,
kept talking about, you know, every single day it was
in the paper, but the Redhead murders, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But the judge said made them stop it and said
they were none of that. Nobody was allowed to mention
or say anything about anything.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Said what happened to me?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Because if if they kept on, he would get off
on a technicality, because because it would paint the jury
or something. That's why they all of a sudden worried
about or just quit.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
It wasn't that they didn't find anything to tie them together.
Speaker 6 (16:57):
It's just that the judge made them quit.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And then when they sentenced him, the judge looked and
he said he never ever wanted him to see the
light of day again. And they gave him different sentences.
Had come to one hundred and some years or something
plus thirty days, and they said the thirty days at
it on. There was what was some teaching in jail
for the rest of his life, and that I didn't
(17:19):
even have to be at the things where you you know,
where he goes and tries to get out in a
parole board or whatever, because he said there's no way
they'd ever let him out, so I'd never even have
to go there and testified or whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I'm sorry, I can I ask you about the knots.
So did he did he cut the shirt with a
knife or did he rip it up?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Like?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
How did he do that?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Did might have cut it with a knife, but he
ripped it into like one or two inch strips. He
ripped the shirt, the T shirt I was wearing, he
ripped it into these all into these numerous strips. I
don't know. Several could have been ten could and I
don't know. I can't remember.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
And he may have started out cutting.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Them, but I know he ripped them in.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
I think he just ripped them.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Now, was that in the car or did he do that?
It's a hotel. When did he do that in the car?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
When we had gone back to the catch one and
we were in the second parking lot, there was a
regular parking lot and then there was like an overflowed
parking lot where big rigs could sit or if they
had overflowed, you know, but nobody was there that ours
was the only car, and like it he was driving,
and he said that we'd gone back there to wait
(18:34):
on chin. And that's when he tied me.
Speaker 7 (18:37):
Up and he told me to give me that what
he was going to do, and everything that he did,
he ripped it up and used it to tie my
hands and feet and that was when I, you know,
I just thought of something that happened that he said.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Something that hadn't said.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Well, can I ask you about the shirt?
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Were you wearing it and he made you take it off?
Or did he have it.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Already or yeah, it was a T shirt. I was
wearing a T shirt. I wearing jeans and a T
shirt and a black leather coat. And I'm assuming a
broad I don't know, but he took my T shirt off,
but I'm pretty sure I must have had a shirt
under it or something or a bra and I had
I know I had the black The black jacket saved
(19:27):
my life.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
How is that?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
A corner of that jacket got in stuck underneath the
stretchy tied around my neck. And when I woke dot
conscious head again, I pulled and it came out, and
it still wasn't enough room for me to breathe, but
it was enough for me to start using my fingers
and picking at it. And I thought, sure he was
(19:51):
just watching me, to not watch me suffer. But I
still kept pulling and pulling, and I felt around and
I was in that covert and I was I thought
I was blind for life and deformed because my eyes
around on my face, you know they and it didn't matter.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
I wanted to live.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So I blind climbed the hill I had still, you know,
I had to find I Celtics, and I staggered.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
Onto the highway and the truck.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
That stopped almost run over me, and some I had
broken my hands apart, I think I had. At the
very top hill, I had finally gotten the thing around
my neck broke with and I was sticking with his
consciousness again and for somehow I got off there.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
Well, then I had.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
These I had blood started just pouring out of my
nose when the when I got breath, and so here
I was got these two strings tied around my hands,
dripping blood, and so they thought I was shooting up
drugs up the guys in the truck.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
That almost run over me. I staggered out in front.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Of them, covered in blood, and like I tied.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Up my arm, you know, they tied their arm to
shoot up.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And so they thought they were afraid I was gonna
die in the truck. So there was the only one in,
a younger one, and I could hear them saying, nope,
we keep there in trucks.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
She'll die in the truck. And they're in a company truck.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
And then they had called I guess on the hoodie thing.
Sometimes I think these are the people are gonna kill me,
because I remember Jerry John's had this brother.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
So I didn't know how many they were.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know, And so I started to take off running around.
Even when the policeman to put me in the Baptist
car to take to the hospital, he was afraid to
wait on the ambulance, so I died before it got there.
So I was I was screaming, don't kill me, don't
kill me. He's gonna kill my.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Friend, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And they brought that out child because I'd say he
or them, because sometimes I'd be talking about he Jerry
Johnson was gonna chill her or them. Jerry Johnson brother
was gonna kill him. So it's like I was just
making stuff up, saying here them. At the time, I
had had no idea. I hadn't seen the brother since
we've left, and we all ended up at the hotel
(22:10):
and he went, the brother went to his room, and
then I never did see Shannon.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
So but I said the police the minute.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
That's all I could talk about is the hospital was
go get Shannon, Go get you know, he's gonna kill her.
He's gonna kill her. And so they went and brought
her and.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Let's stop here for another quick break murder one on one.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
You know, I was just sitting here and I'm just
it's just blew me away. You were talking about the
corner of the collar of that jacket like it saved
your life. That's that's amazing, you know that's while you're
still here. Is that that just that collar of that jacket.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
God puts that there? Yeah, there is no doubt in
my mind. And I know which to have a psychiatrist.
And I quit Gold because he told me that God
didn't work that way.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
Well, God does work that way.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
He gets your attention, and I knew what I was
doing was horrible, and he definitely got my attentions, you.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Know, but you know without that, you know, that's what
you feel like allowed you to survive that, and you know,
because of that, you were able to, you know, get
he was able to become arrested, and like you saved
a lot of people. Just that corner of that collary.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
The newspaper said.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
For colliment, he wrote, because.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
They said I acted bad, I played dead, which that's
not true. I wanted to die so bad that I
just collapsed because I wanted to die.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
I wanted to hurt him die, I don't know what.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So I just collapsed like I was already dead, but
then I lost consciousness. But well I'm not. I had
a little bit tun because I remember your leads rustling,
but I never could figure it out until I guess
still allays said and done, and I really I realized
that he had drugged me because I had to take
the home hide people back there and show them the covert,
(24:14):
and of course there was blood on the covert, so
they they you know, they knew what they knew.
Speaker 6 (24:20):
What it's happened.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
But that's that's amazing about the corner of that collar.
That's just that's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, yeah, the news got some of the stuff completely wrong. So,
you know, like I said, there weren't redheaded murders.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
When you had it.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I thought, well, you should have been around and named
it the Bible Belt murders back then, and the said
of the media, and they named them the red headed murders.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
But that's something interesting that my students decided was that,
I mean, there was if you look online and there's
a lot of people victims from late seventies up to
the early nineties, and they're all grouped together as what
they call these redhead murders. But obviously they're not all related.
Some of them are very different. A woman was taken
from her home, you know, a small little boy, so
(25:09):
they're not related obviously. And so the students wanted to
separate all these you know, quote redhead murders into maybe
the people who could be linked to one person who
did it, because there's really no way to talk about,
you know, the people who related to one person, because
they just lumped all these people together. And so that's
(25:30):
why they wanted to give him a name.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
And when they had the meeting with all these people
from different states, and it wasn't just the Bible Belt.
There were states around, but I think it's mostly east
or southern, you know, in southwest and southeast, but they
might have been some Indianna too, I can't remember. But
there were like fifty two girls or something that they
(25:54):
questioned me about fifty two different women that had been chilled.
I think seems that or there was a lot of them,
but some of them, like I said, had were that
they were.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
They were either.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Prostitutes or homeless. They had no family or around. You know,
nobody's gonna miss him right away. They had the exact
time knot tied. They were found off major interstates. And
see doesn't wish.
Speaker 6 (26:22):
I wish that Larry Johnson was alive because he could
be bring them for all this.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Or somebody. I don't know anybody that's still alive that
was back then. But there were so many similarities that
they're not.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
I mean, yeah that there was nobody.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, he didn't take them from their home.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
With their little boy or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And there's more than the six or eleven or whatever
that there were more of those women that had the
real similarities.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
To what I've been through than what's on that list.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And I don't know how I could get a list
of those people.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Well, i'll share with you. We have spoken to a
TBI agent who was part of this. He had done
some investigations, and he told us that we would never
know the true number because he said sometimes he would
get a call by a corner and he would travel
to another state or another county and they would show
(27:19):
him a body and he'd say, now, we called you
because we think this might be related to your case,
and so he would look at the body. But then
they would have you know, the corners results and it
would say or the autopsy results and it would say
drug overdose. And he would say, well, why did you
call me on a drug overdose? You know I'm investigating murders.
And they said, well, it's obvious she was strangled, but
(27:39):
because we found signs that she was using drugs, we
didn't want to waste a lot of time on this case,
so we just labeled it as an overdose. So he
told me that we would never be able to find
those because they're not even listed as murders.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, I'm like, I'm sure they'll never find him.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
They probably.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I'm sure I have never found all the bodies because
I wasn't the first one, that's for sure. He knew
what he was doing.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
And you know, can I ask you what made you
think that he knew what he was doing or hed
done it before?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well I didn't think any of that, of course at first.
But everything was worked out so perfectly. You know, he
he knew where to park my car in the corner
of that parking lot, and he knew to walk me
to my car, and he stole my car, and they
said he had numerous other He had a briefcase with
him that had dozens of uh, stolen titles.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
I guess what the cars because he had lot his
stolen cars, and.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You know, and they took me down that covert where
evidently he had done a lot of them in that way.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
And yeah, so like his story, like him being a
police officer, you feel like he had done that before,
and he was very convincing or oh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I believe they every word of it. He looked at
my arms to see if I'd had any marks on him,
And where would you look for drugs more than you know,
a place like that, you know, and you know, we
just I thought it was a Texas ranger. I mean,
I honestly did he acted like it, and I don't know.
(29:16):
When I saw he's done, it seemed like a thought
And he said this because he had he was a
Texas languer. I mean, I'm like I said, I didn't
know Texas Rangers.
Speaker 6 (29:27):
Weren't allowed to practice anywhere with Texas you know.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Can I ask you a question about the knots? Did
he seem like he had tied those knots before? Did
he have any trouble? Did you know exactly what he
was doing?
Speaker 5 (29:39):
No?
Speaker 6 (29:39):
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I begged that.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I mean about him when he was tying the knots
in your shirt and things? Did it seem like he
knew exactly what he was doing, like he had practiced
or he had done that before?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
When he tore up my shirt?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
He did?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Because I thought, who was he just thoughts take my
t shirt off and read it up to time? Up
with that?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
That just don't Who would have thought that?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And he didn't came? He not, Well, I don't know,
you did not.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
He had to have tied some sort of knots so
I wouldn't get loose, But at the time it didn't.
I didn't know any difference not with a knot. I
mean they say it was some sort of special have
you that you learned I don't know, in the service
or or something, or.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Well, I have some pictures of that. They actually preserve
those in the case file in Nashville, So I have
pictures of those that I've looked at, and they're I
don't I can't say they're complicated. I don't know enough
about knots, but there's there's a lot of knots like
tied on top of knots with that, and so I'm
trying to find somebody who's an expert with knots to
to say, is that is there a certain name to
(30:46):
that type of knot or is there a place where
you learn it? So we're trying to look into that.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah there, Well I don't I know.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
It's why I wish that I.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Had if that's the third they told me that. Of
course I didn't know anything aboutnots, but they're the ones
that Toby and they said it was like, okay, if
you're standing behind me and you strangle someone.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
And they it was.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I can't says on the left side they were even
in the same position. I guess on the women, you know,
like when you sit it's doing your dishes, you always
put your spine a certain place, you know.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
I mean, I guess it's how I thought about it.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Whatever, just and I can't remember all the other similarities,
but there were other similarities. I mean, most of the
women I think were at my height, and they weren't
saying people, you know, they they nobody would be looking
for them for a while.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
And well, just going back to something that you said
that they showed you lots of different pictures of women.
And I mean, did you feel like he had it
in him to kill a lot of other people?
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I knew, without a doubt killed other people. I mean
there was when a minute he said yes and then
he's just you know, I was met. Oh, when he
took me down the hill that he told the gun
on me, like when we were walking down or while
we were there, is when he told the gun on
me and I screamed and he told me to shut
(32:21):
up or he shoot me, and I shut up. For
this day, I'm not sure how I did. I mean,
there's no doubt in my mind that he killed lives
to live well, like she will never know how many.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
And I hope for their.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Family's sake, we can find some of them and give them.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
Well closure, what you know, whatever.
Speaker 7 (32:43):
But I know he's just.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
In fact, all these years, I wanted to go and
look at him and say why, why you know?
Speaker 6 (32:52):
But I never could.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
More on that next time. Murder one oh one is
executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew
Arnot and me Jeff Shane. Additional producing by Connor Powell
and Gabriel Castillo. Editing by Jeff Twa and Davey Cooper Wasser.
(33:20):
Music by Vancor Music. Murder one oh one is a
production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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