April 3, 2024 • 47 mins
How did Hannah Storm break into the sports business when it wasn’t an option for women? She always felt like she belonged. That comes from growing up in basketball. Hannah’s basketball story—her NBA DNA—begins with the American Basketball Association and her dad, former commissioner Mike Storen.
In our first episode, we relive the basketball of Hannah’s childhood, learn how playground moves made it to the pro courts, and dive into the high-flying world of the ABA, with legends like Dr. J and Bob Costas.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, Barkley always calls it like he sees it. And
when he mentions the players who have won titles with
Houston Rockets, the three who get the most significant minutes
are chem Olajuan Clyde, Drexler, and Mary o Ellie. But
Barkley saying flat out that those players, at least one
of them, we don't know which one is providing a
lackadaisical effort.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That was me, Hannah Storm way back in nineteen ninety
seven hosting the NBA on NBC. If you've worked as
long as I have, you definitely have a few defining moments.
And little did I realize this was one of those
moments for me because of the response from one of
the NBA's biggest stars.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Second, I wish they would print what I said and
not what they think of me, because y'all got not
that goddamn smart.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
You know, you got to have a sense of urgency
because I know I don't want this end. And you know,
they tried to say I was talking about the Ticlar guys.
I wasn't talking about the Ticlar guys.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Before off camera, Barkley told reporters this, and I quote,
I'm really upset about what NBC. Did you tell Dick eversol,
I don't appreciate what they did. I don't have to
go to work for them, even though I told them
I would. It doesn't surprise me though, because it was
Hannah Storm. Women shouldn't be announcing men's sports anyway.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Barkley gets called for the foul work the.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Art heat of the moment comments for sure, but they
expressed an all too common sentiment, especially at the time.
This particular incident happened during the Western Conference Finals. Barkley's
Rockets were down two games to one to the Utah Jazz.
This was the quote that sparked at all, which we
had shared on the NBA on NBC.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
A lot of guys on our team accomplish things that
they want to and they kind of lack a daisical
at times and until you realize how it's significant and
important as is. And that's probably the only thing that
disappoints me about our team. You know, we have a
lot of vegan guys who have accomplished what they want
to accomplish, and they don't feel that since the urgency
(02:20):
that I feel.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
In questioning who Charles was talking about, I was doing
my job as our NBA host. One can only imagine
today the headlines that would have generated on sports debate
shows as a broadcaster. Now, Charles would have DipEd right in,
I'm sure, but back then, well, his was often a
de facto response. Obviously Charles doesn't feel this way now.
(02:44):
But this story illustrates the type of comments that I've
heard throughout my career, which began back in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Welcome back to Showtime, everybody again. The final of from
Oakland is Portland one thirteen, Golden State ninety six.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I heard it when I was trying to break into
the business. My audience won't accept a woman doing sports,
My sports director won't work with a woman. I'll hire
a woman over my dead body.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That was a good one. And there's always the standard,
which I've heard many times, believe it or not, as
recently as when I took an NFL play by play
job for Amazon, and that's go back to the kitchen
where you belong. In terms of this incident, I was
already fifteen years into my career, a familiar, credible presence
on CNN and then NBC, and yet I had to wonder,
(03:37):
will I ever get past this. Who else truly believes
I don't belong here? Fortunately, this story has a pretty
good ending. Everybody knew Charles would make a great broadcaster
even back then, and he was a hot candidate to
join NBC after retirement. USA Today had a media column
(03:58):
at the time by Rudy Martz. It was read by
everyone in the business, and of course this story made headlines.
My boss, Dick Ebersall offered this response to USA Today,
and I quote, Charles is like a favorite cousin. He's
always off the wall, always amusing, and unfortunately occasionally sexist,
but will always leave the light on the door for Charles.
(04:22):
Not exactly a repudiation of what Charles said, But Ebersall
had another plan.
Speaker 6 (04:30):
Is the Prutential Halftime Report brought you.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Game five of the NBA Finals. I was hosting from
Salt Lake City, the Jazz having beaten the Rockets, and
we were planning to announce the formation of the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Halftime of Game five in Utah, with the Jazz leading
the ball fifty three to forty nine, Chicago trailed by
as much as six.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
As it happened, Charles Barkley was the guest analyst on
set that day. Given the circumstances, Ebersall felt that he
you should apologize, and he did on air during the finals.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Hi, everyone had a storm back in Salt Lake City.
I'm joined by Charles Barkley of the Houston Rockets, and Charles,
let's rite off the bat here, clear something up and
address some sexist comments that you made during the course
of the Western Conference finals, one of them being that
women should not announce men's sporting events.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know, that was something that was number one, that
was second and stupid, but it was something that was
said in Jess. Now, I want to a person apologize
to you and all the other women out there who
do men's sports, and I want you to keep up
the good work. But it was just some said and
Jeff that was taking away out of contact, but it
was still stupid.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now, last night we both had the opportunity to attend
a preseason women's NBA game in Houston.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Now, as a.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Man, do you feel that you're qualified a comment on
the new league?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, you know what I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I have to admit that felt really good and better.
Yet Charles grew to become a supportive friend and the
WNBA became a very very important chapter in my career,
just as the NBA was and before that, the American
Basketball Association. One of the questions I am asked the
(06:15):
most is how did you get into this business? It
wasn't really a career option for women. Well, I always
felt that I belonged. That comes from literally growing up
in basketball.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Less than two minutes gone in the ballgame and it's
four to three, Kentucky has the lead, and you can
almost feel the incestity in this game filbo.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
For as long as I can remember, my dad, Mike Storren,
was a sports executive, and we followed him around the
country from city to city and team to team. Today,
of course, the NBA is a global sports and entertainment giant.
Players are multi millionaires and cultural icons.
Speaker 6 (06:56):
The rant, oh, padafoul, bing a dollar, a cry back.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
Take a doll, oh fuck like change.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Where did all that come from? Well, in part because
of a band of entrepreneurs and visionaries who ended up
changing the game forever and defining the course of my career.
As a young girl, I fell in love with the
fun and excitement of basketball, making sports my dream. Even
(07:27):
though not everyone shared my vision, basketball has been central
to my life, and this podcast weaves through our entwined
history through six decades and three leagues. This is my
NBA DNA Episode one, My Father's Basketball.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
It gets it back again. McDaniel's favorite good numbers Kentucky,
the lanes are full right wing, Lois shops and puffs.
Speaker 8 (08:03):
He's got it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The basketball of my childhood is something that few have
actually seen. It exists today through stories passed down through
the years, an oral history of a league that went
largely untelevised into cities like Denver, Indianapolis, San Antonio, Louisville,
Saint Louis and Memphis. It was high flying, wide open, flashy,
(08:29):
and to a kid, pure magic.
Speaker 8 (08:33):
Two fires one at that time.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Are there?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
My dad, Mike Storren, was right there at the epicenter
of the upstart league. His favorite part of his decades
long career. His highlight reel is pretty epic. He helped
found the Indiana Pacers and was general manager of three
professional teams, including the Atlanta Hawks. He was the fifth
commissioner of the American Basketball Association, which existed from nineteen
(09:01):
sixty seven to nineteen seventy six, and Dad loved to
tell stories about it.
Speaker 9 (09:07):
Just tell a lot of lies, right, Star is a
lot better belly. No, I'm just easy.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That's my dad. Sadly we lost him in twenty twenty,
but I'm grateful that he was interviewed extensively by the
folks at the NBA, so you'll hear my dad throughout
this series. He was super creative and I'm proud that
many of his ideas are part of the game today.
Speaker 9 (09:37):
Wouldn't it be great one day if we really had
television and more than one game a week on Sunday afternoon.
Wouldn't it be great if we were able to make
and incorporate internationally basketball and tap into and take advantage
of the great players in the world. And wouldn't it
(09:58):
be great if everybody could wear San Antonio Spurs jacket?
And wouldn't it be great if we could acknowledge women's
role in basketball.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Now you can see where I got my ability to
think outside the box. Of course, back then, I was
just a little kid along for the wild ride that
was my dad's career, alongside my two younger brothers, Mark
and Duke Storn. Here's Duke.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
We moved around every four years or so. We went
from Indianapolis to Louisville, to Memphis, to Atlanta to Houston.
Always had interesting people over to the house, sometimes athletes,
sometimes just characters from my dad's sports world.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Since we moved around a lot, my dad's teams were
more like extended families that come for Thanksgiving or Christmas parties.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Artist gets it again, I got you back.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I remember players like Bob MADELECKI Melt Daniels, Artist Gilmore,
dan Issel hanging out at the house.
Speaker 7 (11:02):
That's probably my earliest memory. I mean, I've got a
great picture of sitting on artist Gilmore's lap. I was,
you know, three years old or something, and you know,
I like he could actually hold me in his hand.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Probably, Oh my gosh, I need that picture. You got
to send me the picture.
Speaker 7 (11:18):
Because he was you know, seven too. But as you know,
the froze were so great back in the late sixties
early seventies.
Speaker 8 (11:26):
Yeah, he had another He had like.
Speaker 7 (11:28):
Another six inches, you know, going with his cool hair.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Feel more setting up low inside Roberts.
Speaker 7 (11:39):
You got to go to a lot of good games
and felt like sports royalty, getting a sick courtside and
yell at the refs and do all the things that
my Dad would do well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Actually, it was Mom who yelled at the referees because
Mom played basketball in college, and so she was constantly
yelling at the refs. And what I remember was she'd
be like, goshoo, he walked, blah blah blah, blah blah.
I remember knowing the names of all the referees almost
better than the players, because Mom would yell at them
(12:11):
right mark.
Speaker 8 (12:12):
Half the fun was going there knowing we were just
going to scream at some adults and we could get
away with it, and it was It was totally acceptable.
I also remember sitting around the dinner table right commenting
on teams and players by hate say now, but probably
particularly by me, was like, oh, you don't know, you know, hen,
you just have no idea that. Of course, after a
few years, everyone quickly learned in the entire family never
(12:35):
to argue with Hannah when it came to anything about
sports again, because she always had a lot more facts,
you know, to back up her opinions and stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Those dinner table debates were great for me, especially as
I tried to prove to my dad how much I knew.
I even remember when I was little sitting with him
at our kitchen table in Indianapolis and drawing up the
Pacers colors and team low go, that's so funny. What
sticks with you? Years later?
Speaker 8 (13:04):
I remember dan Issel taking his teeth out, I think
Kentucky Colonel's right, taking his front two teeth out before
every game, and he would walk over and he'd scowl
at the bench of the opposing team, you know, missing
these teeth in front, and like I'm like, what's he doing?
And David always laughing, like it's just trying to intimidate
(13:24):
those guys, And of course he usually did on.
Speaker 10 (13:26):
The bookles all over the place tonight twenty four point.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Something else that I remember vividly the style women dressed
to the nines for the games. My mom had an
entire closet of wigs and cool outfits like hot pants.
The glamorous women at the games, like C. C. Daniels
and Turquoise Irving. They were like movie stars to me.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
I had a chetam taine for William.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Of course, on the court, it also was all about
stuck the playground moves, the pace of the game, the
three pointers, the slam dunks, all of it would eventually
become a cornerstone of basketball as we know it today,
and at the center of all of it was the
(14:21):
face of the abat doctor j It's so great to
talk to you and great to see you a face
that's so familiar. I've known you since I was a
little girl. I don't know, wondering how old. My dad
always said, I guess I met you, and I was
(14:42):
probably eight.
Speaker 11 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Julius Irving was the ABA long before he helped lead
the Sixers to an NBA title in nineteen eighty three.
He played hoops at Roosevelt High School on Long Island
and had a few early iterationations of that famous nickname.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Harry come Doctor looks.
Speaker 7 (15:04):
For Daylight with me, and they took that to the.
Speaker 11 (15:08):
I had a nickname that I had gotten like in
ninth grade from my friend the professor. He called me
the Doctor. So when they started calling me different names,
the Claude he called me, and that was pretending to
be in like Connie Hawkins being called the claw because
I could pick the ball up in one hand, and I.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Was like, I don't want to be clawed.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It doesn't have the same ring.
Speaker 11 (15:33):
I don't want to be you know. I don't think
it turned out that well.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
For me, I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And then doctor Julius, which truly doesn't have the same
ring as doctor J. Right, doctor J. It's just perfect.
Speaker 11 (15:47):
Well, I told him the doctor because that was what
Leon gave me. He gave me the doctor, and I
gave him the professor. And so they took to the
doctor and they said doctor, the doctor. Doctor. That first year,
and when I went to training camp to the team,
positions were called doc and doctor, and our trainer said, well,
(16:08):
you got to be doctor J, because you know doctor
Mason is doctor M. So I became doctor J.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Doctor J was twenty one when he began his ABA career,
having left after his junior year at UMass. That's something
you could not do in the NBA at the time.
He played for the Virginia Squires and later the New
York Nets and helped take the street style of Harlem's
famed Rooker Park to the pro.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
Doctor J under unbelievable Doctor J with us back to
the basket. So they get to and they moved it
with the play.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
It was.
Speaker 12 (16:47):
It was kind of like a coming out party for
me because I had played two years at UMass's varsity
player in one year as a freshman, and during that time,
you know, the dunk was taken out of the game.
Speaker 11 (16:59):
He had limited it my sophomore year because you could
dunk in the warm ups, so when you're warming up
and you loosen it up, you can dunk basketball. And
then by junior year, they just took it out all
together because they were trying to slow down Blue el center.
I think they were.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
I think it was aimed at him, That's what I.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Was, Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 11 (17:20):
Okay, not that he dunkeed the ball a whole lot,
but it made him develop that skyhook that nobody was
able to taste.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
What a big pressure shot.
Speaker 11 (17:33):
So I think it was aimed to him.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And in your first season in the ABA, you averaged
twenty seven points fifteen rebounds for assists, your second team
All ABA, a runner up for Rookie of the Year
behind artist Gilmore. How was the top talent of the ABA, Well, I.
Speaker 11 (17:50):
Think the cream of the crop, you know, which was
artists and Danis or George McInnis, Melo Daniels, Roger Brown,
Willie White as Zimobati. The competition was great. I had
a guy named Joe Calwell who was really a thought
on my side. I think I averaged twenty seven points
(18:11):
against the rest of the league in about twenty one
or twenty two against him, and I always have my
shorts turned around after the game. No, I had nothing
but respect for the players. There was a footloose and
fancy freeiness about it.
Speaker 9 (18:27):
And of course the NBA position was they play a
undisciplined brand of basketball, they don't know how to play defense,
and they certainly couldn't compete against the wonderful level of
talent that we have in the NBA. On the other side,
we said, NBA doesn't know what they're talking about. Our
(18:47):
players are just as good as theirs, if not better,
our teams are as good as theirs, if not better,
And we are every bit as good and entertaining and
more entertaining in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
From day one, the ABA intended to disrupt the League's
founders had watched the American Football League merge with the NFL,
and in nineteen sixty seven they created the ABA in
hopes of a merger with the NBA. At the time,
that's where my dad was in the NBA with the
Cincinnati Royals, but he jumped at the chance to create
(19:29):
a team in the new League in his home state
of Indiana.
Speaker 9 (19:36):
As a business manager for the Cincinnati Royals and as
a former Marine, I believed that I could run a
basketball team as well as anybody. All that, of course,
would be subject to question, but certainly not in my mind.
When the ABA began its formation, a contemporary and best
(20:01):
friend of mine from the Marine Corps was an attorney
in Indianapolis, Indiana. His name was Dick Tinkham, and Dick
put together a group that was interested in joining the
ABA and putting a franchise in Indianapolis, Indiana. And Dick
called me and said, as a contemporary from the Marine Corps,
(20:25):
we're looking for somebody to come in here and run
this thing. Are you interested? And my answer was I'll
be there tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Dad grew up in Michigan City, Indiana, and went to
Notre Dame, playing one year of football there, just as
he did following college when he served in the Marine Corps.
Then he decided to try and make sports a career.
As we were living in Chicago, where I had been born.
Speaker 9 (20:51):
And so I wrote every sports team in the United
States and said that I was coming out of the
Marine Corps and I was looking for a job, and
I received somewhere around two hundred rejection letters, and as
a result, I thought, well, let's see it doesn't work
by sending anybody a letter. So I read in the
(21:13):
Chicago Tribune that the then Chicago Zephyr's professional basketball team
had only sold six hundred season tickets. So I picked
up the telephone and I called the owner of the
Chicago Zephyrs and I said, this is Captain Mike Storn
of the United States Marine Corps, and I'd like to
(21:35):
meet you on personal business. So he had no idea
who it was or what was going on. Put it
on my dressed blue uniform, went down to his office
and I said, mister Trager, I personally will sell six
hundred new season tickets for your team. He hired me
and I became the promotion director for the Chicago Zephyrs,
(21:58):
who subsequently moved to Baltimore, where I moved with the
team and started my professional sports career.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
My dad was unafraid to put himself out there a
trait my brothers and I would inherit.
Speaker 13 (22:27):
Was it Chicago, where he would open the back door
and let in everybody, so that would look like that
the stadium was filled up for that Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I bet he did that in numerous cities too.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
Well.
Speaker 7 (22:43):
I mean, I think he always looked at another way
to solve a problem. You know, he would do that.
He would extend that like to everyday life, Like he
always found a parking space even if it was illegal,
like right, it's an entrant, or if there was a
line for tickets, you know. I remember Mark tells a
(23:05):
story he was going to see I don't know, Star
Wars or something.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Non Living Dead midnight movie along.
Speaker 7 (23:11):
My living dad and they were one hundred people back
and Dad would say, I'll be back in a minute,
and he would like come back with the ticket. Yeah,
the rules didn't always apply to Dad, and I think
he was really proud of that. And I think that
that type of example inspired us all to maybe think
differently and not just accept the status quo of the
(23:32):
way that the world worked. And you know, obviously, Hannah,
you just breaking through like every glass ceiling as a
pre eminent woman's sportscaster that led the way for all
all the others, you must have absorbed that same lesson.
It's like, just because that's the way that things are
doesn't mean this way they have to be.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
I just remember that we really kind of had a
sports culture that we grew up in, right, So it's
so not surprising handed that, you know, you've broken down
a lot of those walls and stuff to be you know,
a woman broadcaster in sports, and that dad, you know,
made a career out of it. Every house we lived in,
the first thing that happened we moved to a new house.
(24:13):
Who gets put up right?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yep?
Speaker 8 (24:15):
In the driveway, Samannada, we always had a ping pong table. Yeah,
there was just constantly this, oh, let's go play this,
you know, where there was a game or sports doing
the football or whatever. There was just constantly this culture
of competing in sports that was going on all the time.
Speaker 11 (24:32):
Right.
Speaker 8 (24:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You also got rid of a bunch of my boyfriends
that way. So every time I would date somebody, oh
my god, every time I would date somebody, Mark and
Duke would take him out on the hoops court and
Dad too, egging the whole thing. And then like if
the guy like wasn't like a decent hoops player, you
can tell the story, but you can't say name's Mark.
Speaker 8 (24:53):
Yes, we did get rid of several boyfriends starting to
high school, I think right like Hannah would kind of
get serious and then definitely in college and afterwards, and
when it started to you know, turn the corner hand,
it would go from you know, it was a fun
day to you know, a little twickle in her eye
to come up it was like, okay, we have to
(25:15):
take this person out, and it would be too unto
So often it was Dad and I against Duke and
Hannah's boyfriend, and the whole thing was we don't really
care if he shoots that well, but what's the dude
gonna do when he takes a heart foul? Like that
was Dad's things, like he's like, you know, one time
it would be you know, Duke on the opposite team,
next over your knee, but one of us would be
(25:37):
like you knock him on his butt or shove him
on a pit into the bushes next to the garage,
and then don't say thing like no one likes you know, no,
oh starry. If the dude gets up and he's whiny
and like this, you know, total baby and then trying
to like get up everyone's face, it's like, you know,
(25:57):
one of us is gonna tell hand this this person's
not gonna work out. And then, of course when we
did the same thing with Dan Hicks, Dan Hicks happens
to be not only a really good sportscaster and golfer,
but dude can shoot some hoops to my gosh, and
of course, you know, he took his fair share of
you know, elbows to the face and heart kicks.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Never complained once spoiler alert, I married Dan. But enough
of that, let's get back to the story of my dad.
He saw an opportunity with the ABA, and he wasn't
afraid to take it.
Speaker 9 (26:32):
The exciting part of my going to Indiana and going
into the ABA is that I started in Indianapolis, Indiana,
with a yellow legal pad and a pencil. Starting from
scratch was a wonderful opportunity for me. That meant I
(26:53):
had total control and I could implement and do everything
the way that I thought it should be done.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
There were no assistant GMS, scouting directors, presidents of basketball operations.
When my dad went to Indiana, he made all the
basketball decisions. He brought in three future Hall of famers,
hired Slick Leonard to coach, traded for superstar Mel Daniels
and sign the man that many have called the best
player to never play in the NBA, Roger Brown. My
(27:25):
dad's decisions would become the foundation of a team that
won three titles and went to five ABA finals. Of course,
not all of my dad's moves over the years were popular,
as we learned firsthand when my dad became general manager
(27:48):
of the Kentucky Colonels and fired its popular coach, Gene Rhodes.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
One of the articles said, if you don't like what
mister Starrn has done, go to the games and boo him,
and two call him and tell them what you think. Well,
I've never had an unlisted phone, and a lot of
people called. I must say that my wife became a
little upset with the results, not particularly happy when some
(28:18):
people dumb garbage on my front lawn. And so, to
make a long story short, I had my wife and
kids go to Disneyland for a week while things cooled off.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Here's my brother Mark.
Speaker 8 (28:36):
I know that Dad would orchestrate trades on behalf of
the team, and a lot of times people be protesting
Dan's moves. And here's one picture, this guy holding the
sign saying trade storing for schubin it. Yeah, Pacers, right,
So I remember not everyone always being happy about decisions
that might have been made that impacted the team. But
(28:58):
also I remember the react, you know, Dan's reaction, which is,
you know, you know what, we don't need to worry
about those people. And there's always going to be people
who love you. There's always gonna be people that hate you,
so you know, you just got to kind of kind
of carry on.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I vividly remember being in Memphis and people putting for
sale signs in our.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Yard though oh really, oh really.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, I do remember that. And then I remember being
in high school with the Atlanta Hawks. Dad was only
with the Hawks for a couple of months before he
made a move that Ted Turner didn't like. And I
remember being in high school and dad had just gotten
the job with the Atlanta Hawks and then he was
like fired almost immediately, like months later, and I remember
(29:44):
that that was super embarrassing and like sad as a
high school kid, you mean, yeah, yeah, you know, you
felt bad for your dad. You felt like, oh, you're
not the new kid in town, and like, so there's
some things I remember like that, but I think mostly
our remember like the sadness of losing we love to
(30:06):
just yell at athletes and you know, rip on gms
and say that coaches should be fired and all of that.
And I mean, I don't know about you, guys, but
I do think about our own experience of like our
dad getting fired from jobs and you know, losing jobs
and one that does to your family and moving around,
and I don't know, I think that that gives you
a lot of empathy. Growing up with my dad gave
(30:31):
me an understanding of the business of sports. After his
Indiana Pacers won the ABA title in nineteen seventy, he
became president GM and part owner of the Kentucky Colonels,
quickly building the team into an ABA powerhouse. In nineteen
seventy one, he secured the draft rights for Hall of
Famer the A train artist Gilmore, who was drafted in
(30:55):
both leagues, but went to the Colonels on a ten year,
two point five million dollar contract, becoming both Rookie of
the Year and MVP over Julia Servia.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
Or should get Blowing's side being jam Bombers command the Breen.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Going off there.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
My dad was intent on proving to the NBA that
the ABA was legit.
Speaker 9 (31:19):
I was able to put together the first exhibition games
between the leagues, so we were able to bring in
in one exhibition game the Milwaukee Bucks, who at the
time had a guy named Oscar Robison playing that's center,
whose name was the Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and we of
(31:40):
course had Dan Essel and artist Gilmore and Louis Dampier,
one of the great shooters of all time. I don't
even remember who won. I guess I would suggest we did,
but I can remember the building was sold out and
I remember artists stepping into the center against Kareem. I
think the players walked away in their own mind and said,
(32:02):
we really are as good as these guys. In fact,
we really are better.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Kentucky was a springboard to my dad's next gig where
he could really wield some influence as the fifth Commissioner
of the ABA in nineteen seventy three. It was really
exciting for my family. We got to fly to New
York City for the announcement. Here's Duke.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
My early first limo ride I think I ever went on.
I just remember this incredible trip. I mean it was
I was young, but I still still remember it.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
We went to the twenty one Club. I remember like
coming to New York and being like, oh, this is
my dream man, I want to live here one day.
And I would many years later working for NBC Sports,
which is where I first met legendary broadcaster Bob Costas.
Speaker 10 (32:56):
The two craziest experiences of my life were the first
two at twenty one in the Eastern Hockey League and
then at twenty two in the ABA. And you know
from your own experience and your dad's that the ABA
was both ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And subloc Bob also got his start in the ABA
long before he became a star with NBC. He left
Syracuse University in nineteen seventy four twelve credits shy of
graduation to become the play by play announcer for the
Saint Louis Spirits. And you were twenty two years old, right.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah, I was twenty two. I looked like host fifteen.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Okay, I believe that, because right now you look like
you're I don't know, forty. Maybe you know, for the
purposes this is a podcast, our audience will just have
to take my word for it.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
Edel File Circle lukas Plait by Barnes looks inside for Gildore,
finds him in the lane for the hook that has gone.
Speaker 10 (33:48):
You know, I think that the ABA wanted to distinguish
itself in various ways from the NBA. The Red White
and Blue ball was part of that. The encouraging of individualism,
provisational play, again which the old timers scoffed at, But
when you look at David Thompson, or you look at
Doctor j who was the greatest of all of them,
(34:09):
they influenced everybody. The slam dunk contests started in the ABA,
and again the NBA guys said, all want a cheap gimmick,
and then they adopted it, and with Michael Jordan and everybody,
it became a staple of the All Star Game. The
three pointer was, at least when I was in the ABA,
and I would say the first couple of decades after
(34:30):
its adoption by the NBA, it was a strategic punctuation.
Usually it was a pull up if the guy was
wide open and unguarded. Now it's integrated in a way
that there may be in a giving game more threes
taken than twos.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
The league's free wheeling style and offensive rules were different.
The iconic Red White and Blue basketball, the concept of cheerleaders,
crazy halftime entertainment. All of it was designed to sell
tickets because there was no revenue from a national television contract.
Speaker 10 (35:07):
You know, do you think of one of the best remembered
plays Doctor j in nineteen eighty against the Lakers, that
deal where he went under the basket and came back
out the other side, or the rock the Baby dunk
where he came diagonally and just went over every I think.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
You might have gone over way rock the baby.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
That's way when slam dunk swung that baby way.
Speaker 10 (35:30):
Those moves, which were widely appreciated because they were on
national television with the NBA. I saw moves like that
in games that were not on TV, in front of
the crowds of.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Five thousand in Saint Louis and elsewhere.
Speaker 10 (35:44):
And I think one of the things about the ABA,
and I'm sure you talked about this with your dad
and other people, it might be the last major American
sports enterprise that has a real element of legend, because
a lot of the stories come across as apocryphal. Well,
this is what I saw that night at Freedom Hall.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Now I don't know. I was on the other side
of the court. I saw it differently.
Speaker 10 (36:05):
You know, say anything you want about Michael Jordan and
as great as he was, or Lebron or whomever you
want to name, everything they did is fully documented from
ten different angles.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
What about you as a broadcaster, you know, getting that
assignment at such a young age and having that be,
as you said, just your second assignment. Ever, I don't
know what did you learn during all those crazy years
or with this renegade league. You know, all these fascinating
individuals just winging it, you know, making it up as
(36:34):
they went along.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
There was enough absurdity that I could latch onto that
you also have to remember this. I'm a contemporary of
all the players, guys like the late wonderful Steve Snapper Jones.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
He was a veteran.
Speaker 10 (36:47):
He was like, you know, thirty one, thirty two years old,
so he's the wise man of the team. I was
roughly the same age as most of the other guys
on the team. We hung around together, Maurice Lucas, Marvin Barnes,
Gus Gerard Fly Williams, who was as crazy as.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
It came, the famous Marvin Barnes or infamous Marvin Barnes.
So share with their audience, who exactly Marvin Barnes was.
Speaker 10 (37:14):
Marvin Barnes was an All American in Providence team that
went to the Final Four. At one point, he was
selected second in both the NBA and ABA drafts, right
behind Bill Walton. So it tells you how highly regarded
he was. And he and Moses Malone were rookies at
the same time, same year in the ABA, and Marvin
(37:34):
was the ABA Rookie of the Year. Moses goes on
to the Hall of Fame, wins three MVPs in the NBA.
That's how good Marvin Barnes was. There were nights when
he was the best player on the floor. Not doctor
j not artist Gilmore, not dan Issel or anybody else
you wanted to mention. Marvin Barnes, if he had stayed
on the straight and narrow, would certainly have been among
(37:56):
the top fifty in nineteen ninety seven in Cleveland, the
top seventy five again this past year when they named
the seventy five greatest, no question about it. But he
was as crazy as he was talented. It was hard
to dislike him, though, because he was so humorous. And
there's a lot of stories. And I know that some
(38:16):
people have heard this one before, because I've built it
so many times, but it kind of personifies him. We
played in Kentucky against a very good Colonel's team that
won the championship that first year that I was in
the league.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
That was my dad's team.
Speaker 10 (38:29):
Yeah, of course, so you know, teams didn't travel by
charter then, certainly not in the AVA where everybody was on.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
A shoe string budget. Louisville is four and a half
five hour drive from Saint Louis, but it's in the
Eastern time zone.
Speaker 10 (38:42):
So we lose as we usually did at Freedom Hall,
and we gathered the next day at the airport and
the trainer, who double as the traveling secretary, he passes
out the itinerary and it says TWA flight three oh
five depart Louisville.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Eight am.
Speaker 10 (38:59):
Arrived Saint Louis was seven fifty six and Marvin Barnes
beckons me over, drapes an arm around my shoulder, and
from more than a foot above me, he says, bro,
do you see this. I said yes. He says, well,
I don't know about you, but as for me, I
am not getting on any time machine now. Some people
(39:21):
thought that meant that Marvin was dumb, but he wasn't dumb.
He was smart and he knew that was funny. But
he also knew I was more likely to get it
than let's say, Fly Williams, so he decided.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
To drop the line on me.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I always picture Marvin bad News Barns in his floor
length mink coat, and then there was Darnell, doctor dunk
Hillman with his massive afro. And picture this Larry Brown
sporting overalls on the sideline. Everything was looser in the ABA.
Speaker 9 (39:53):
The first thing I decided was, well, I guess afros
were okay. So one of the the rules I relaxed
was you didn't have to have your hair closely trimmed,
but no facial hair. And then as we were looking
at drafting players, I looked at and I said, you know,
one of the players were really interested in as a
(40:16):
guy named Artist Gilmore. And Artist really has a lot
of facial hair. So in anticipation of what was to come,
one of the rules I changed was you could go
ahead and have facial hair.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
The ABA didn't want any obstacles when it came to
convincing players to come to their league, and to that end,
my father also helped to craft something they called the
hardship rule that enabled players to turn professional before finishing
four years of college, something they could not do in
the NBA. Just part of my dad's legacy. He left
(40:53):
his post as ABA commissioner after a year to take
part ownership of the Memphis Sounds, having set the foundation
for an eventual merger with the NBA.
Speaker 9 (41:09):
I mean, every player we signed could have signed in
the NBA. And so when you looked at people like
Julius Irving and the artist Gilmour and Dan Issel and
Mel Daniels and Freddie Lewis and on and on and on,
every single player cast his lot with our belief in
(41:29):
our vision and in what we said we're going to do.
And so as I look back, that was, you know,
a wonderful experience.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Those times are part of my family's folklore. Here's Bob
costas doctor.
Speaker 10 (41:45):
J of the ABA is like factual page of the
Negro Leads or something.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
You know, it's all word about pretty much.
Speaker 10 (41:52):
And there was so much mystery and fascination surrounding him
when he came to the NBA with the seventy six
ers and a lot of skeptic we'll see how good
this guy is.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And then I found out how what he was described
to somebody, how special it was because you know, it
wasn't on TV. It's just one of the reasons why
they went overboard to make it so entertaining to see
in person, right, because they didn't have a television contract,
so they had to deal with the revenue that was
there in front of the fans. What would you tell
the people that they missed, just.
Speaker 10 (42:22):
How much crazy fun it was and how to this
day it's a fraternity. You know, I've been lucky enough
to do a lot of things, But if I bumped
into somebody who's associated with the ABA in their mind
first and foremost, I'm an ABA guy. That's how hub
Brown remembers me. Hubie Brown's a Yeah. I looked over
and there was this kid there. I thought he was
(42:43):
the ball boy. He looked like he was twelve. Then
I realized he's calling the game human. He's been telling
the same story over and over, and now he's ninety,
you'll probably be telling it when he was one hundred.
So it's kind of this fraternity that only those of
us who were there fully appreciated, and it's like a
secret club. So if I bumped into artists Gilmore or
Danesel or even Rick Barry who had more years in
(43:05):
the NBA than the ABA, but that ABA DNA is
part of his life story as well. And even though
I think the ABA ultimately has gotten do we still
believe that you had to be.
Speaker 8 (43:18):
There that DNA right of the ABA, like the energy
and the flash and district entertainment value really pursued when
the two leagues merge. Right, If you look at the
NBA today, I would say it's much more like the
ABA of those old days than how the NBA used
(43:40):
to be.
Speaker 11 (43:40):
Right.
Speaker 8 (43:41):
That DNA and the ABA really has filtered into the NBA,
and it's now a big part of how we look
at the NBA.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Right, and we're all still like huge fans. Is there
something that I didn't consider including in this conversation, or
maybe a thought or two that you that you want
to add.
Speaker 7 (44:00):
Let me think about that for a minute.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, okay, Mark.
Speaker 8 (44:02):
I think we should probably talk a little bit more
about your sports upbringing, you know, and the days of
Hannah Storm being molded into the sports cash that she
is today, because you were pretty athletic, even though you
didn't pursue it hard. I think that's a little bit.
Do you think that there's a little bit of a
mission there in terms of, you know, how Hane it
got to be where she is now.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I don't know if I was like athlet I mean
it was really before Title nine, right, so it's like
women's sports weren't huge. I tried everything, though, but I
think more it was like the singing and acting and
being on stage and just really discovering that and being
kind of a ham and then really understanding from the
way that we grow up from being a girl that
(44:45):
was allowed to be around sports a lot because of
our dad being exposed to it, and understanding how fun
it was, you know what I mean, So wanting to
go into TV or wanting to go into the public eye,
wanted to do something in broadcasting, but where it wasn't
a pas for girls to go into sports. I think
I was so determined to go into sports because I
knew from us growing up just how great it was.
Speaker 7 (45:08):
And you know, the resiliency. I mean, let's face it,
we moved every four years, not because we are moving
to every new great opportunity, you know, we are moving
because we had to right to the next one. Maybe
maybe not the commissioner job, but all the others. But
that's resiliency, you know, and modeled resiliency. Coupling that with
(45:28):
enthusiasm and hard work and intelligence. You know, those are
all lessons that we absorbed growing up. And you've been
incredibly resilient, you know, your whole career, Hannah. People saying
you can't go into the locker.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Room, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
That was like a lot.
Speaker 7 (45:43):
Yeah, controversy and so many misogyny and the doubts about having,
you know, a woman to be a sportscaster. That's another
part of our upbringing that really is part of your DNA,
part of all of our DNAs that really helped you
succeed and break through, you know, and just having confidence
(46:04):
in yourself I think has been It's been really fun
for Mark and I to watch and really inspiring, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
So hey, it's part of our DNA. I love you
guys so much. Next time.
Speaker 14 (46:22):
On NBA DNA, every year there was a competition for
players leaving college and having to make a choice between
the NBA and the ABA.
Speaker 10 (46:36):
And when we look back on it and think about
what even the least the players makes now, it all
seems so trivial, but these guys had to fight for
the right to have free agency and the right to
have some sort of control over their own lives and careers.
Speaker 11 (46:50):
You know, if you got a check, you ran to
the bank real quick admitted deposit just to make sure.
Speaker 8 (46:55):
It held up.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
NBA DNA with Hannah Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts,
the NBA and Brainstorman Productions. The show is written and
executive produced by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia Weaver
and Alex French. Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver.
Our senior producers are Peter Kouder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese.
(47:30):
Editing and sound design by Kurt Garn and Julia Weaver.
The show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean
ty Tone, Steve Weintraub, and Jason Weikelt.
Well, Barkley always calls it like he sees it. And
when he mentions the players who have won titles with
Houston Rockets, the three who get the most significant minutes
are chem Olajuan Clyde, Drexler, and Mary o Ellie. But
Barkley saying flat out that those players, at least one
of them, we don't know which one is providing a
lackadaisical effort.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That was me, Hannah Storm way back in nineteen ninety
seven hosting the NBA on NBC. If you've worked as
long as I have, you definitely have a few defining moments.
And little did I realize this was one of those
moments for me because of the response from one of
the NBA's biggest stars.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Second, I wish they would print what I said and
not what they think of me, because y'all got not
that goddamn smart.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
You know, you got to have a sense of urgency
because I know I don't want this end. And you know,
they tried to say I was talking about the Ticlar guys.
I wasn't talking about the Ticlar guys.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Before off camera, Barkley told reporters this, and I quote,
I'm really upset about what NBC. Did you tell Dick eversol,
I don't appreciate what they did. I don't have to
go to work for them, even though I told them
I would. It doesn't surprise me though, because it was
Hannah Storm. Women shouldn't be announcing men's sports anyway.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Barkley gets called for the foul work the.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Art heat of the moment comments for sure, but they
expressed an all too common sentiment, especially at the time.
This particular incident happened during the Western Conference Finals. Barkley's
Rockets were down two games to one to the Utah Jazz.
This was the quote that sparked at all, which we
had shared on the NBA on NBC.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
A lot of guys on our team accomplish things that
they want to and they kind of lack a daisical
at times and until you realize how it's significant and
important as is. And that's probably the only thing that
disappoints me about our team. You know, we have a
lot of vegan guys who have accomplished what they want
to accomplish, and they don't feel that since the urgency
(02:20):
that I feel.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
In questioning who Charles was talking about, I was doing
my job as our NBA host. One can only imagine
today the headlines that would have generated on sports debate
shows as a broadcaster. Now, Charles would have DipEd right in,
I'm sure, but back then, well, his was often a
de facto response. Obviously Charles doesn't feel this way now.
(02:44):
But this story illustrates the type of comments that I've
heard throughout my career, which began back in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Welcome back to Showtime, everybody again. The final of from
Oakland is Portland one thirteen, Golden State ninety six.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I heard it when I was trying to break into
the business. My audience won't accept a woman doing sports,
My sports director won't work with a woman. I'll hire
a woman over my dead body.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That was a good one. And there's always the standard,
which I've heard many times, believe it or not, as
recently as when I took an NFL play by play
job for Amazon, and that's go back to the kitchen
where you belong. In terms of this incident, I was
already fifteen years into my career, a familiar, credible presence
on CNN and then NBC, and yet I had to wonder,
(03:37):
will I ever get past this. Who else truly believes
I don't belong here? Fortunately, this story has a pretty
good ending. Everybody knew Charles would make a great broadcaster
even back then, and he was a hot candidate to
join NBC after retirement. USA Today had a media column
(03:58):
at the time by Rudy Martz. It was read by
everyone in the business, and of course this story made headlines.
My boss, Dick Ebersall offered this response to USA Today,
and I quote, Charles is like a favorite cousin. He's
always off the wall, always amusing, and unfortunately occasionally sexist,
but will always leave the light on the door for Charles.
(04:22):
Not exactly a repudiation of what Charles said, But Ebersall
had another plan.
Speaker 6 (04:30):
Is the Prutential Halftime Report brought you.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Game five of the NBA Finals. I was hosting from
Salt Lake City, the Jazz having beaten the Rockets, and
we were planning to announce the formation of the WNBA.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Halftime of Game five in Utah, with the Jazz leading
the ball fifty three to forty nine, Chicago trailed by
as much as six.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
As it happened, Charles Barkley was the guest analyst on
set that day. Given the circumstances, Ebersall felt that he
you should apologize, and he did on air during the finals.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Hi, everyone had a storm back in Salt Lake City.
I'm joined by Charles Barkley of the Houston Rockets, and Charles,
let's rite off the bat here, clear something up and
address some sexist comments that you made during the course
of the Western Conference finals, one of them being that
women should not announce men's sporting events.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know, that was something that was number one, that
was second and stupid, but it was something that was
said in Jess. Now, I want to a person apologize
to you and all the other women out there who
do men's sports, and I want you to keep up
the good work. But it was just some said and
Jeff that was taking away out of contact, but it
was still stupid.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now, last night we both had the opportunity to attend
a preseason women's NBA game in Houston.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Now, as a.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Man, do you feel that you're qualified a comment on
the new league?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, you know what I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I have to admit that felt really good and better.
Yet Charles grew to become a supportive friend and the
WNBA became a very very important chapter in my career,
just as the NBA was and before that, the American
Basketball Association. One of the questions I am asked the
(06:15):
most is how did you get into this business? It
wasn't really a career option for women. Well, I always
felt that I belonged. That comes from literally growing up
in basketball.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Less than two minutes gone in the ballgame and it's
four to three, Kentucky has the lead, and you can
almost feel the incestity in this game filbo.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
For as long as I can remember, my dad, Mike Storren,
was a sports executive, and we followed him around the
country from city to city and team to team. Today,
of course, the NBA is a global sports and entertainment giant.
Players are multi millionaires and cultural icons.
Speaker 6 (06:56):
The rant, oh, padafoul, bing a dollar, a cry back.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
Take a doll, oh fuck like change.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Where did all that come from? Well, in part because
of a band of entrepreneurs and visionaries who ended up
changing the game forever and defining the course of my career.
As a young girl, I fell in love with the
fun and excitement of basketball, making sports my dream. Even
(07:27):
though not everyone shared my vision, basketball has been central
to my life, and this podcast weaves through our entwined
history through six decades and three leagues. This is my
NBA DNA Episode one, My Father's Basketball.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
It gets it back again. McDaniel's favorite good numbers Kentucky,
the lanes are full right wing, Lois shops and puffs.
Speaker 8 (08:03):
He's got it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The basketball of my childhood is something that few have
actually seen. It exists today through stories passed down through
the years, an oral history of a league that went
largely untelevised into cities like Denver, Indianapolis, San Antonio, Louisville,
Saint Louis and Memphis. It was high flying, wide open, flashy,
(08:29):
and to a kid, pure magic.
Speaker 8 (08:33):
Two fires one at that time.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Are there?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
My dad, Mike Storren, was right there at the epicenter
of the upstart league. His favorite part of his decades
long career. His highlight reel is pretty epic. He helped
found the Indiana Pacers and was general manager of three
professional teams, including the Atlanta Hawks. He was the fifth
commissioner of the American Basketball Association, which existed from nineteen
(09:01):
sixty seven to nineteen seventy six, and Dad loved to
tell stories about it.
Speaker 9 (09:07):
Just tell a lot of lies, right, Star is a
lot better belly. No, I'm just easy.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That's my dad. Sadly we lost him in twenty twenty,
but I'm grateful that he was interviewed extensively by the
folks at the NBA, so you'll hear my dad throughout
this series. He was super creative and I'm proud that
many of his ideas are part of the game today.
Speaker 9 (09:37):
Wouldn't it be great one day if we really had
television and more than one game a week on Sunday afternoon.
Wouldn't it be great if we were able to make
and incorporate internationally basketball and tap into and take advantage
of the great players in the world. And wouldn't it
(09:58):
be great if everybody could wear San Antonio Spurs jacket?
And wouldn't it be great if we could acknowledge women's
role in basketball.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Now you can see where I got my ability to
think outside the box. Of course, back then, I was
just a little kid along for the wild ride that
was my dad's career, alongside my two younger brothers, Mark
and Duke Storn. Here's Duke.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
We moved around every four years or so. We went
from Indianapolis to Louisville, to Memphis, to Atlanta to Houston.
Always had interesting people over to the house, sometimes athletes,
sometimes just characters from my dad's sports world.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Since we moved around a lot, my dad's teams were
more like extended families that come for Thanksgiving or Christmas parties.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Artist gets it again, I got you back.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I remember players like Bob MADELECKI Melt Daniels, Artist Gilmore,
dan Issel hanging out at the house.
Speaker 7 (11:02):
That's probably my earliest memory. I mean, I've got a
great picture of sitting on artist Gilmore's lap. I was,
you know, three years old or something, and you know,
I like he could actually hold me in his hand.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Probably, Oh my gosh, I need that picture. You got
to send me the picture.
Speaker 7 (11:18):
Because he was you know, seven too. But as you know,
the froze were so great back in the late sixties
early seventies.
Speaker 8 (11:26):
Yeah, he had another He had like.
Speaker 7 (11:28):
Another six inches, you know, going with his cool hair.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Feel more setting up low inside Roberts.
Speaker 7 (11:39):
You got to go to a lot of good games
and felt like sports royalty, getting a sick courtside and
yell at the refs and do all the things that
my Dad would do well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Actually, it was Mom who yelled at the referees because
Mom played basketball in college, and so she was constantly
yelling at the refs. And what I remember was she'd
be like, goshoo, he walked, blah blah blah, blah blah.
I remember knowing the names of all the referees almost
better than the players, because Mom would yell at them
(12:11):
right mark.
Speaker 8 (12:12):
Half the fun was going there knowing we were just
going to scream at some adults and we could get
away with it, and it was It was totally acceptable.
I also remember sitting around the dinner table right commenting
on teams and players by hate say now, but probably
particularly by me, was like, oh, you don't know, you know, hen,
you just have no idea that. Of course, after a
few years, everyone quickly learned in the entire family never
(12:35):
to argue with Hannah when it came to anything about
sports again, because she always had a lot more facts,
you know, to back up her opinions and stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Those dinner table debates were great for me, especially as
I tried to prove to my dad how much I knew.
I even remember when I was little sitting with him
at our kitchen table in Indianapolis and drawing up the
Pacers colors and team low go, that's so funny. What
sticks with you? Years later?
Speaker 8 (13:04):
I remember dan Issel taking his teeth out, I think
Kentucky Colonel's right, taking his front two teeth out before
every game, and he would walk over and he'd scowl
at the bench of the opposing team, you know, missing
these teeth in front, and like I'm like, what's he doing?
And David always laughing, like it's just trying to intimidate
(13:24):
those guys, And of course he usually did on.
Speaker 10 (13:26):
The bookles all over the place tonight twenty four point.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Something else that I remember vividly the style women dressed
to the nines for the games. My mom had an
entire closet of wigs and cool outfits like hot pants.
The glamorous women at the games, like C. C. Daniels
and Turquoise Irving. They were like movie stars to me.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
I had a chetam taine for William.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Of course, on the court, it also was all about
stuck the playground moves, the pace of the game, the
three pointers, the slam dunks, all of it would eventually
become a cornerstone of basketball as we know it today,
and at the center of all of it was the
(14:21):
face of the abat doctor j It's so great to
talk to you and great to see you a face
that's so familiar. I've known you since I was a
little girl. I don't know, wondering how old. My dad
always said, I guess I met you, and I was
(14:42):
probably eight.
Speaker 11 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Julius Irving was the ABA long before he helped lead
the Sixers to an NBA title in nineteen eighty three.
He played hoops at Roosevelt High School on Long Island
and had a few early iterationations of that famous nickname.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Harry come Doctor looks.
Speaker 7 (15:04):
For Daylight with me, and they took that to the.
Speaker 11 (15:08):
I had a nickname that I had gotten like in
ninth grade from my friend the professor. He called me
the Doctor. So when they started calling me different names,
the Claude he called me, and that was pretending to
be in like Connie Hawkins being called the claw because
I could pick the ball up in one hand, and I.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Was like, I don't want to be clawed.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It doesn't have the same ring.
Speaker 11 (15:33):
I don't want to be you know. I don't think
it turned out that well.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
For me, I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And then doctor Julius, which truly doesn't have the same
ring as doctor J. Right, doctor J. It's just perfect.
Speaker 11 (15:47):
Well, I told him the doctor because that was what
Leon gave me. He gave me the doctor, and I
gave him the professor. And so they took to the
doctor and they said doctor, the doctor. Doctor. That first year,
and when I went to training camp to the team,
positions were called doc and doctor, and our trainer said, well,
(16:08):
you got to be doctor J, because you know doctor
Mason is doctor M. So I became doctor J.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Doctor J was twenty one when he began his ABA career,
having left after his junior year at UMass. That's something
you could not do in the NBA at the time.
He played for the Virginia Squires and later the New
York Nets and helped take the street style of Harlem's
famed Rooker Park to the pro.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
Doctor J under unbelievable Doctor J with us back to
the basket. So they get to and they moved it
with the play.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
It was.
Speaker 12 (16:47):
It was kind of like a coming out party for
me because I had played two years at UMass's varsity
player in one year as a freshman, and during that time,
you know, the dunk was taken out of the game.
Speaker 11 (16:59):
He had limited it my sophomore year because you could
dunk in the warm ups, so when you're warming up
and you loosen it up, you can dunk basketball. And
then by junior year, they just took it out all
together because they were trying to slow down Blue el center.
I think they were.
Speaker 8 (17:16):
I think it was aimed at him, That's what I.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Was, Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 11 (17:20):
Okay, not that he dunkeed the ball a whole lot,
but it made him develop that skyhook that nobody was
able to taste.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
What a big pressure shot.
Speaker 11 (17:33):
So I think it was aimed to him.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And in your first season in the ABA, you averaged
twenty seven points fifteen rebounds for assists, your second team
All ABA, a runner up for Rookie of the Year
behind artist Gilmore. How was the top talent of the ABA, Well, I.
Speaker 11 (17:50):
Think the cream of the crop, you know, which was
artists and Danis or George McInnis, Melo Daniels, Roger Brown,
Willie White as Zimobati. The competition was great. I had
a guy named Joe Calwell who was really a thought
on my side. I think I averaged twenty seven points
(18:11):
against the rest of the league in about twenty one
or twenty two against him, and I always have my
shorts turned around after the game. No, I had nothing
but respect for the players. There was a footloose and
fancy freeiness about it.
Speaker 9 (18:27):
And of course the NBA position was they play a
undisciplined brand of basketball, they don't know how to play defense,
and they certainly couldn't compete against the wonderful level of
talent that we have in the NBA. On the other side,
we said, NBA doesn't know what they're talking about. Our
(18:47):
players are just as good as theirs, if not better,
our teams are as good as theirs, if not better,
And we are every bit as good and entertaining and
more entertaining in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
From day one, the ABA intended to disrupt the League's
founders had watched the American Football League merge with the NFL,
and in nineteen sixty seven they created the ABA in
hopes of a merger with the NBA. At the time,
that's where my dad was in the NBA with the
Cincinnati Royals, but he jumped at the chance to create
(19:29):
a team in the new League in his home state
of Indiana.
Speaker 9 (19:36):
As a business manager for the Cincinnati Royals and as
a former Marine, I believed that I could run a
basketball team as well as anybody. All that, of course,
would be subject to question, but certainly not in my mind.
When the ABA began its formation, a contemporary and best
(20:01):
friend of mine from the Marine Corps was an attorney
in Indianapolis, Indiana. His name was Dick Tinkham, and Dick
put together a group that was interested in joining the
ABA and putting a franchise in Indianapolis, Indiana. And Dick
called me and said, as a contemporary from the Marine Corps,
(20:25):
we're looking for somebody to come in here and run
this thing. Are you interested? And my answer was I'll
be there tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Dad grew up in Michigan City, Indiana, and went to
Notre Dame, playing one year of football there, just as
he did following college when he served in the Marine Corps.
Then he decided to try and make sports a career.
As we were living in Chicago, where I had been born.
Speaker 9 (20:51):
And so I wrote every sports team in the United
States and said that I was coming out of the
Marine Corps and I was looking for a job, and
I received somewhere around two hundred rejection letters, and as
a result, I thought, well, let's see it doesn't work
by sending anybody a letter. So I read in the
(21:13):
Chicago Tribune that the then Chicago Zephyr's professional basketball team
had only sold six hundred season tickets. So I picked
up the telephone and I called the owner of the
Chicago Zephyrs and I said, this is Captain Mike Storn
of the United States Marine Corps, and I'd like to
(21:35):
meet you on personal business. So he had no idea
who it was or what was going on. Put it
on my dressed blue uniform, went down to his office
and I said, mister Trager, I personally will sell six
hundred new season tickets for your team. He hired me
and I became the promotion director for the Chicago Zephyrs,
(21:58):
who subsequently moved to Baltimore, where I moved with the
team and started my professional sports career.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
My dad was unafraid to put himself out there a
trait my brothers and I would inherit.
Speaker 13 (22:27):
Was it Chicago, where he would open the back door
and let in everybody, so that would look like that
the stadium was filled up for that Baltimore.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I bet he did that in numerous cities too.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
Well.
Speaker 7 (22:43):
I mean, I think he always looked at another way
to solve a problem. You know, he would do that.
He would extend that like to everyday life, Like he
always found a parking space even if it was illegal,
like right, it's an entrant, or if there was a
line for tickets, you know. I remember Mark tells a
(23:05):
story he was going to see I don't know, Star
Wars or something.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Non Living Dead midnight movie along.
Speaker 7 (23:11):
My living dad and they were one hundred people back
and Dad would say, I'll be back in a minute,
and he would like come back with the ticket. Yeah,
the rules didn't always apply to Dad, and I think
he was really proud of that. And I think that
that type of example inspired us all to maybe think
differently and not just accept the status quo of the
(23:32):
way that the world worked. And you know, obviously, Hannah,
you just breaking through like every glass ceiling as a
pre eminent woman's sportscaster that led the way for all
all the others, you must have absorbed that same lesson.
It's like, just because that's the way that things are
doesn't mean this way they have to be.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
I just remember that we really kind of had a
sports culture that we grew up in, right, So it's
so not surprising handed that, you know, you've broken down
a lot of those walls and stuff to be you know,
a woman broadcaster in sports, and that dad, you know,
made a career out of it. Every house we lived in,
the first thing that happened we moved to a new house.
(24:13):
Who gets put up right?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yep?
Speaker 8 (24:15):
In the driveway, Samannada, we always had a ping pong table. Yeah,
there was just constantly this, oh, let's go play this,
you know, where there was a game or sports doing
the football or whatever. There was just constantly this culture
of competing in sports that was going on all the time.
Speaker 11 (24:32):
Right.
Speaker 8 (24:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You also got rid of a bunch of my boyfriends
that way. So every time I would date somebody, oh
my god, every time I would date somebody, Mark and
Duke would take him out on the hoops court and
Dad too, egging the whole thing. And then like if
the guy like wasn't like a decent hoops player, you
can tell the story, but you can't say name's Mark.
Speaker 8 (24:53):
Yes, we did get rid of several boyfriends starting to
high school, I think right like Hannah would kind of
get serious and then definitely in college and afterwards, and
when it started to you know, turn the corner hand,
it would go from you know, it was a fun
day to you know, a little twickle in her eye
to come up it was like, okay, we have to
(25:15):
take this person out, and it would be too unto
So often it was Dad and I against Duke and
Hannah's boyfriend, and the whole thing was we don't really
care if he shoots that well, but what's the dude
gonna do when he takes a heart foul? Like that
was Dad's things, like he's like, you know, one time
it would be you know, Duke on the opposite team,
next over your knee, but one of us would be
(25:37):
like you knock him on his butt or shove him
on a pit into the bushes next to the garage,
and then don't say thing like no one likes you know, no,
oh starry. If the dude gets up and he's whiny
and like this, you know, total baby and then trying
to like get up everyone's face, it's like, you know,
(25:57):
one of us is gonna tell hand this this person's
not gonna work out. And then, of course when we
did the same thing with Dan Hicks, Dan Hicks happens
to be not only a really good sportscaster and golfer,
but dude can shoot some hoops to my gosh, and
of course, you know, he took his fair share of
you know, elbows to the face and heart kicks.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Never complained once spoiler alert, I married Dan. But enough
of that, let's get back to the story of my dad.
He saw an opportunity with the ABA, and he wasn't
afraid to take it.
Speaker 9 (26:32):
The exciting part of my going to Indiana and going
into the ABA is that I started in Indianapolis, Indiana,
with a yellow legal pad and a pencil. Starting from
scratch was a wonderful opportunity for me. That meant I
(26:53):
had total control and I could implement and do everything
the way that I thought it should be done.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
There were no assistant GMS, scouting directors, presidents of basketball operations.
When my dad went to Indiana, he made all the
basketball decisions. He brought in three future Hall of famers,
hired Slick Leonard to coach, traded for superstar Mel Daniels
and sign the man that many have called the best
player to never play in the NBA, Roger Brown. My
(27:25):
dad's decisions would become the foundation of a team that
won three titles and went to five ABA finals. Of course,
not all of my dad's moves over the years were popular,
as we learned firsthand when my dad became general manager
(27:48):
of the Kentucky Colonels and fired its popular coach, Gene Rhodes.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
One of the articles said, if you don't like what
mister Starrn has done, go to the games and boo him,
and two call him and tell them what you think. Well,
I've never had an unlisted phone, and a lot of
people called. I must say that my wife became a
little upset with the results, not particularly happy when some
(28:18):
people dumb garbage on my front lawn. And so, to
make a long story short, I had my wife and
kids go to Disneyland for a week while things cooled off.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Here's my brother Mark.
Speaker 8 (28:36):
I know that Dad would orchestrate trades on behalf of
the team, and a lot of times people be protesting
Dan's moves. And here's one picture, this guy holding the
sign saying trade storing for schubin it. Yeah, Pacers, right,
So I remember not everyone always being happy about decisions
that might have been made that impacted the team. But
(28:58):
also I remember the react, you know, Dan's reaction, which is,
you know, you know what, we don't need to worry
about those people. And there's always going to be people
who love you. There's always gonna be people that hate you,
so you know, you just got to kind of kind
of carry on.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I vividly remember being in Memphis and people putting for
sale signs in our.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Yard though oh really, oh really.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, I do remember that. And then I remember being
in high school with the Atlanta Hawks. Dad was only
with the Hawks for a couple of months before he
made a move that Ted Turner didn't like. And I
remember being in high school and dad had just gotten
the job with the Atlanta Hawks and then he was
like fired almost immediately, like months later, and I remember
(29:44):
that that was super embarrassing and like sad as a
high school kid, you mean, yeah, yeah, you know, you
felt bad for your dad. You felt like, oh, you're
not the new kid in town, and like, so there's
some things I remember like that, but I think mostly
our remember like the sadness of losing we love to
(30:06):
just yell at athletes and you know, rip on gms
and say that coaches should be fired and all of that.
And I mean, I don't know about you, guys, but
I do think about our own experience of like our
dad getting fired from jobs and you know, losing jobs
and one that does to your family and moving around,
and I don't know, I think that that gives you
a lot of empathy. Growing up with my dad gave
(30:31):
me an understanding of the business of sports. After his
Indiana Pacers won the ABA title in nineteen seventy, he
became president GM and part owner of the Kentucky Colonels,
quickly building the team into an ABA powerhouse. In nineteen
seventy one, he secured the draft rights for Hall of
Famer the A train artist Gilmore, who was drafted in
(30:55):
both leagues, but went to the Colonels on a ten year,
two point five million dollar contract, becoming both Rookie of
the Year and MVP over Julia Servia.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
Or should get Blowing's side being jam Bombers command the Breen.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Going off there.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
My dad was intent on proving to the NBA that
the ABA was legit.
Speaker 9 (31:19):
I was able to put together the first exhibition games
between the leagues, so we were able to bring in
in one exhibition game the Milwaukee Bucks, who at the
time had a guy named Oscar Robison playing that's center,
whose name was the Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and we of
(31:40):
course had Dan Essel and artist Gilmore and Louis Dampier,
one of the great shooters of all time. I don't
even remember who won. I guess I would suggest we did,
but I can remember the building was sold out and
I remember artists stepping into the center against Kareem. I
think the players walked away in their own mind and said,
(32:02):
we really are as good as these guys. In fact,
we really are better.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Kentucky was a springboard to my dad's next gig where
he could really wield some influence as the fifth Commissioner
of the ABA in nineteen seventy three. It was really
exciting for my family. We got to fly to New
York City for the announcement. Here's Duke.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
My early first limo ride I think I ever went on.
I just remember this incredible trip. I mean it was
I was young, but I still still remember it.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
We went to the twenty one Club. I remember like
coming to New York and being like, oh, this is
my dream man, I want to live here one day.
And I would many years later working for NBC Sports,
which is where I first met legendary broadcaster Bob Costas.
Speaker 10 (32:56):
The two craziest experiences of my life were the first
two at twenty one in the Eastern Hockey League and
then at twenty two in the ABA. And you know
from your own experience and your dad's that the ABA
was both ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And subloc Bob also got his start in the ABA
long before he became a star with NBC. He left
Syracuse University in nineteen seventy four twelve credits shy of
graduation to become the play by play announcer for the
Saint Louis Spirits. And you were twenty two years old, right.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah, I was twenty two. I looked like host fifteen.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Okay, I believe that, because right now you look like
you're I don't know, forty. Maybe you know, for the
purposes this is a podcast, our audience will just have
to take my word for it.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
Edel File Circle lukas Plait by Barnes looks inside for Gildore,
finds him in the lane for the hook that has gone.
Speaker 10 (33:48):
You know, I think that the ABA wanted to distinguish
itself in various ways from the NBA. The Red White
and Blue ball was part of that. The encouraging of individualism,
provisational play, again which the old timers scoffed at, But
when you look at David Thompson, or you look at
Doctor j who was the greatest of all of them,
(34:09):
they influenced everybody. The slam dunk contests started in the ABA,
and again the NBA guys said, all want a cheap gimmick,
and then they adopted it, and with Michael Jordan and everybody,
it became a staple of the All Star Game. The
three pointer was, at least when I was in the ABA,
and I would say the first couple of decades after
(34:30):
its adoption by the NBA, it was a strategic punctuation.
Usually it was a pull up if the guy was
wide open and unguarded. Now it's integrated in a way
that there may be in a giving game more threes
taken than twos.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
The league's free wheeling style and offensive rules were different.
The iconic Red White and Blue basketball, the concept of cheerleaders,
crazy halftime entertainment. All of it was designed to sell
tickets because there was no revenue from a national television contract.
Speaker 10 (35:07):
You know, do you think of one of the best remembered
plays Doctor j in nineteen eighty against the Lakers, that
deal where he went under the basket and came back
out the other side, or the rock the Baby dunk
where he came diagonally and just went over every I think.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
You might have gone over way rock the baby.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
That's way when slam dunk swung that baby way.
Speaker 10 (35:30):
Those moves, which were widely appreciated because they were on
national television with the NBA. I saw moves like that
in games that were not on TV, in front of
the crowds of.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Five thousand in Saint Louis and elsewhere.
Speaker 10 (35:44):
And I think one of the things about the ABA,
and I'm sure you talked about this with your dad
and other people, it might be the last major American
sports enterprise that has a real element of legend, because
a lot of the stories come across as apocryphal. Well,
this is what I saw that night at Freedom Hall.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Now I don't know. I was on the other side
of the court. I saw it differently.
Speaker 10 (36:05):
You know, say anything you want about Michael Jordan and
as great as he was, or Lebron or whomever you
want to name, everything they did is fully documented from
ten different angles.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
What about you as a broadcaster, you know, getting that
assignment at such a young age and having that be,
as you said, just your second assignment. Ever, I don't
know what did you learn during all those crazy years
or with this renegade league. You know, all these fascinating
individuals just winging it, you know, making it up as
(36:34):
they went along.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
There was enough absurdity that I could latch onto that
you also have to remember this. I'm a contemporary of
all the players, guys like the late wonderful Steve Snapper Jones.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
He was a veteran.
Speaker 10 (36:47):
He was like, you know, thirty one, thirty two years old,
so he's the wise man of the team. I was
roughly the same age as most of the other guys
on the team. We hung around together, Maurice Lucas, Marvin Barnes,
Gus Gerard Fly Williams, who was as crazy as.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
It came, the famous Marvin Barnes or infamous Marvin Barnes.
So share with their audience, who exactly Marvin Barnes was.
Speaker 10 (37:14):
Marvin Barnes was an All American in Providence team that
went to the Final Four. At one point, he was
selected second in both the NBA and ABA drafts, right
behind Bill Walton. So it tells you how highly regarded
he was. And he and Moses Malone were rookies at
the same time, same year in the ABA, and Marvin
(37:34):
was the ABA Rookie of the Year. Moses goes on
to the Hall of Fame, wins three MVPs in the NBA.
That's how good Marvin Barnes was. There were nights when
he was the best player on the floor. Not doctor
j not artist Gilmore, not dan Issel or anybody else
you wanted to mention. Marvin Barnes, if he had stayed
on the straight and narrow, would certainly have been among
(37:56):
the top fifty in nineteen ninety seven in Cleveland, the
top seventy five again this past year when they named
the seventy five greatest, no question about it. But he
was as crazy as he was talented. It was hard
to dislike him, though, because he was so humorous. And
there's a lot of stories. And I know that some
(38:16):
people have heard this one before, because I've built it
so many times, but it kind of personifies him. We
played in Kentucky against a very good Colonel's team that
won the championship that first year that I was in
the league.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
That was my dad's team.
Speaker 10 (38:29):
Yeah, of course, so you know, teams didn't travel by
charter then, certainly not in the AVA where everybody was on.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
A shoe string budget. Louisville is four and a half
five hour drive from Saint Louis, but it's in the
Eastern time zone.
Speaker 10 (38:42):
So we lose as we usually did at Freedom Hall,
and we gathered the next day at the airport and
the trainer, who double as the traveling secretary, he passes
out the itinerary and it says TWA flight three oh
five depart Louisville.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Eight am.
Speaker 10 (38:59):
Arrived Saint Louis was seven fifty six and Marvin Barnes
beckons me over, drapes an arm around my shoulder, and
from more than a foot above me, he says, bro,
do you see this. I said yes. He says, well,
I don't know about you, but as for me, I
am not getting on any time machine now. Some people
(39:21):
thought that meant that Marvin was dumb, but he wasn't dumb.
He was smart and he knew that was funny. But
he also knew I was more likely to get it
than let's say, Fly Williams, so he decided.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
To drop the line on me.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I always picture Marvin bad News Barns in his floor
length mink coat, and then there was Darnell, doctor dunk
Hillman with his massive afro. And picture this Larry Brown
sporting overalls on the sideline. Everything was looser in the ABA.
Speaker 9 (39:53):
The first thing I decided was, well, I guess afros
were okay. So one of the the rules I relaxed
was you didn't have to have your hair closely trimmed,
but no facial hair. And then as we were looking
at drafting players, I looked at and I said, you know,
one of the players were really interested in as a
(40:16):
guy named Artist Gilmore. And Artist really has a lot
of facial hair. So in anticipation of what was to come,
one of the rules I changed was you could go
ahead and have facial hair.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
The ABA didn't want any obstacles when it came to
convincing players to come to their league, and to that end,
my father also helped to craft something they called the
hardship rule that enabled players to turn professional before finishing
four years of college, something they could not do in
the NBA. Just part of my dad's legacy. He left
(40:53):
his post as ABA commissioner after a year to take
part ownership of the Memphis Sounds, having set the foundation
for an eventual merger with the NBA.
Speaker 9 (41:09):
I mean, every player we signed could have signed in
the NBA. And so when you looked at people like
Julius Irving and the artist Gilmour and Dan Issel and
Mel Daniels and Freddie Lewis and on and on and on,
every single player cast his lot with our belief in
(41:29):
our vision and in what we said we're going to do.
And so as I look back, that was, you know,
a wonderful experience.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Those times are part of my family's folklore. Here's Bob
costas doctor.
Speaker 10 (41:45):
J of the ABA is like factual page of the
Negro Leads or something.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
You know, it's all word about pretty much.
Speaker 10 (41:52):
And there was so much mystery and fascination surrounding him
when he came to the NBA with the seventy six
ers and a lot of skeptic we'll see how good
this guy is.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And then I found out how what he was described
to somebody, how special it was because you know, it
wasn't on TV. It's just one of the reasons why
they went overboard to make it so entertaining to see
in person, right, because they didn't have a television contract,
so they had to deal with the revenue that was
there in front of the fans. What would you tell
the people that they missed, just.
Speaker 10 (42:22):
How much crazy fun it was and how to this
day it's a fraternity. You know, I've been lucky enough
to do a lot of things, But if I bumped
into somebody who's associated with the ABA in their mind
first and foremost, I'm an ABA guy. That's how hub
Brown remembers me. Hubie Brown's a Yeah. I looked over
and there was this kid there. I thought he was
(42:43):
the ball boy. He looked like he was twelve. Then
I realized he's calling the game human. He's been telling
the same story over and over, and now he's ninety,
you'll probably be telling it when he was one hundred.
So it's kind of this fraternity that only those of
us who were there fully appreciated, and it's like a
secret club. So if I bumped into artists Gilmore or
Danesel or even Rick Barry who had more years in
(43:05):
the NBA than the ABA, but that ABA DNA is
part of his life story as well. And even though
I think the ABA ultimately has gotten do we still
believe that you had to be.
Speaker 8 (43:18):
There that DNA right of the ABA, like the energy
and the flash and district entertainment value really pursued when
the two leagues merge. Right, If you look at the
NBA today, I would say it's much more like the
ABA of those old days than how the NBA used
(43:40):
to be.
Speaker 11 (43:40):
Right.
Speaker 8 (43:41):
That DNA and the ABA really has filtered into the NBA,
and it's now a big part of how we look
at the NBA.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Right, and we're all still like huge fans. Is there
something that I didn't consider including in this conversation, or
maybe a thought or two that you that you want
to add.
Speaker 7 (44:00):
Let me think about that for a minute.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, okay, Mark.
Speaker 8 (44:02):
I think we should probably talk a little bit more
about your sports upbringing, you know, and the days of
Hannah Storm being molded into the sports cash that she
is today, because you were pretty athletic, even though you
didn't pursue it hard. I think that's a little bit.
Do you think that there's a little bit of a
mission there in terms of, you know, how Hane it
got to be where she is now.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I don't know if I was like athlet I mean
it was really before Title nine, right, so it's like
women's sports weren't huge. I tried everything, though, but I
think more it was like the singing and acting and
being on stage and just really discovering that and being
kind of a ham and then really understanding from the
way that we grow up from being a girl that
(44:45):
was allowed to be around sports a lot because of
our dad being exposed to it, and understanding how fun
it was, you know what I mean, So wanting to
go into TV or wanting to go into the public eye,
wanted to do something in broadcasting, but where it wasn't
a pas for girls to go into sports. I think
I was so determined to go into sports because I
knew from us growing up just how great it was.
Speaker 7 (45:08):
And you know, the resiliency. I mean, let's face it,
we moved every four years, not because we are moving
to every new great opportunity, you know, we are moving
because we had to right to the next one. Maybe
maybe not the commissioner job, but all the others. But
that's resiliency, you know, and modeled resiliency. Coupling that with
(45:28):
enthusiasm and hard work and intelligence. You know, those are
all lessons that we absorbed growing up. And you've been
incredibly resilient, you know, your whole career, Hannah. People saying
you can't go into the locker.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Room, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
That was like a lot.
Speaker 7 (45:43):
Yeah, controversy and so many misogyny and the doubts about having,
you know, a woman to be a sportscaster. That's another
part of our upbringing that really is part of your DNA,
part of all of our DNAs that really helped you
succeed and break through, you know, and just having confidence
(46:04):
in yourself I think has been It's been really fun
for Mark and I to watch and really inspiring, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
So hey, it's part of our DNA. I love you
guys so much. Next time.
Speaker 14 (46:22):
On NBA DNA, every year there was a competition for
players leaving college and having to make a choice between
the NBA and the ABA.
Speaker 10 (46:36):
And when we look back on it and think about
what even the least the players makes now, it all
seems so trivial, but these guys had to fight for
the right to have free agency and the right to
have some sort of control over their own lives and careers.
Speaker 11 (46:50):
You know, if you got a check, you ran to
the bank real quick admitted deposit just to make sure.
Speaker 8 (46:55):
It held up.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
NBA DNA with Hannah Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts,
the NBA and Brainstorman Productions. The show is written and
executive produced by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia Weaver
and Alex French. Our lead producer and showrunner is Julia Weaver.
Our senior producers are Peter Kouder, Alex French, and Brandon Reese.
(47:30):
Editing and sound design by Kurt Garn and Julia Weaver.
The show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, Jason English, Sean
ty Tone, Steve Weintraub, and Jason Weikelt.
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