April 12, 2024 • 59 mins
Grant Hill Part 1 - Vince and Grant discuss what it is like to go into the Hall of Fame, this year's Men's and Women's NCAA Tournaments, the rivalry between Duke and UNC that never stops, plus the back story on The Pass Grant made to Christian Laettner vs Kentucky in 1992.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the
VC Show. It's the.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Show Season two.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yeah, we back again, got the world cone in there
for so so through with tell of friends, my heart
got me on the for us slam, dump the whinstle.
Go on, then kick your feet up so you can
listen to Gee. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show.
It's the VC Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's the v c All right, all right, welcome to
the VC Show. I'm your host, Vince Carter. March Madness
has come and gone, but it was fantastic. A lot
of great basketball on the men's and women's side, a
lot of drama and playoff positioning happening in the NBA.
(00:53):
And I'll be discussing that and a lot more with
my special guests. So kick your feet up. The VC
Show starts. Now. You got what they wanted, Okay, My
guests highly decorated. A busy man that has his hand
(01:16):
and a little bit of everything. He was mister basketball
in Virginia in nineteen ninety McDonald's All American went to
a college that's up the rope from UNC, where his
jersey number thirty three was retired. Two time first team
All American. Excuse me, all acc ACC Player of the Year,
(01:37):
Defensive Player of the Year. Take your time, guys. I'm
not finished yet. Consistent consensus first and second team All American,
two time NCAA champion ninety one and ninety two. I
was like five that year. Uh CO Rookie of the
Year ninety five with Jason Kidd. He was drafted third
by the Detroit Pistons. Three times sportsman Ship Award is
(01:59):
awesome award to have for those who don't know much
about that. Seven time All Star with over seventeen thousand points.
I don't know if he knew that, and the twenty
eighteen Nate Smith Hall of Famer. He's a part owner
of the Atlanta Hawks, Baltimore Orioles, and the Orlando City
soccer team, and analysts for Turner Sports and CBS, which
(02:22):
did a fantastic job managing director of the USA men's
national basketball team, which I don't envy him. It's a
tough job, not at all South Lake High School's own.
Put your hands together for Grand Hill, Oh man, man,
what's good? Man? Hey? I appreciate that introduction. It's not
often that Tar Hills say nice things about Blue devils. Correct, correct,
(02:46):
So I appreciate that. So understand how long it took
me to get to write that stuff down because I
didn't know where I wanted to go with some of that.
I was like, ah, you know, that's what I figured.
I'd leave your college name out, you know, but I
figured some people get an idea. You know, you think
of UNC, you think of you know, where you guys go.
But let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
First of all, I saw you out obviously in Phoenix,
but man, you did a great job. I got a
chance to listen to you for the championship game because
I got up out of there. But how was it?
I mean, how was it? I'm watching? Were you impressed
with the players? And you know, I think anytime you
get to the final four, you know, you always have
(03:29):
a Cinderella story, but yet the cream of the crop
typically rise to the top. It sounded like a rap
bar right there. Yeah. No, First of all, congrats to you.
I know you were out there, you know, not as
a casual spectator, but it was announced that you were
part of the twenty twenty four Hall of Fame class
(03:50):
and you'll be enshrined later this summer. So congrats to
you on that and that announcement well deserved and I
can't wait to hear your remarks when you are are
inducted later this year. That'll be great. Hey, let me
say this to you since we're on that subject real
quick before we move into the march madness, I have
another appreciation for you because we we had a general
(04:13):
conversation about this in preparation of how it all works,
what to expect, and like you said, this is is
I look at it like giving information to U of
rookie or young men possibly getting adapted into the NBA.
(04:35):
You can tell him what it's like, but it's nothing
like experience it, experiencing it and going through it. And
I it was it was obviously better than inspected. But
I think the conversation we had helped me kind of
be prepared and able to handle a little better. And
on that note, how was your experience going through uh,
(04:56):
you know this that phone call you know, more so
then the speech first, but the phone call, you know,
we got our phone call on April first, which is
April fool. So I had to weed out if it
was a joke or not right, but it was yours. Yeah,
that's pretty funny April fools, now, you know. So what
(05:17):
people don't realize is that John Deliver, who's the executive
director of the Natesmith Hall of Natesmith Hall of Fame,
Basketball Hall of Fame, he calls all of the finalists.
So the finalists are announced at All Star weekend. Uh,
and then from that sort of pool of candidates, they
announced the class. And not everybody who made the finalist
(05:38):
roster makes the last cut, if you will. And so
he's calling you regardless if you make it or you
don't make it. He's letting you know, Hey you got in,
or hey you didn't get in. And U and so
for me, I got the date mixed up. I thought
I had the wrong date. And so the funny thing
was I was actually calling again during March Madness. It
(06:01):
was an Elite eight game in twenty eighteen, Duke versus Kansas.
I told Jim Nance, I told Bill Raftery, I said, look,
I might get the call during the game, and so
and so, actually, during the game, in the first half,
the phone rang. I didn't recognize the number, so I
answered it and it was a telemarket and so at
(06:23):
halftime I'm nervous. The game's over, Like I'm getting on
a jet. I'm flying to the Bahamas because it's spring
break that week for my kids. So I texted John
Deliva and I said, hey, man, like you know, like
you know, like you can call me whenever, like you know,
I'm doing a game, like right now, at your time. Yeah,
And He's like, no, no, I'm supposed to call you
on Tuesday. And so you know, I was like, oh, okay,
(06:47):
so I could relax now and actually call the game
and not worry about this phone call. But you know,
it was a little different from me. I mean, look,
everyone knew you were going to get it, and just
your career was decorated, storied all that, you did. You know,
I had a I had like three different careers in one.
(07:09):
You know, I had a really good start and you
you combined four years in college and then the six
seven years early on, and then I had, you know,
years I didn't play, and I was really hurt and
I just you know, I couldn't I couldn't get on
the court, and that was a hard part, a dark part.
And then the end, you know, I was I was
more in a role player, and you know, I came
(07:32):
back and I was healthy and I was able to contribute,
you know, not at the level early in my career.
So there was not that gradual decline that happened sometimes
as we get older. It just was abrupt for me
when I got hurt. And so anyway, I say all
that to say like I didn't know, Like I wasn't
sure if it would really happen or not. And so yeah,
(07:54):
I remember I was at I was at the pool.
I got the call, and you know, it was surreal.
It was. I'm not an overly emotional person, but you know,
I found myself, you know, slightly emotional in that moment,
just once once I got the call and then I
hung up and just had a moment to process it
(08:16):
and think about it, and and so yeah, it was.
It was incredible. It was absolutely incredible. But it didn't
fully sink in. You know. Obviously, the final four came
up that weekend in San Antonio and the announcement happened,
and then there's the lead up to the actual enshrinement ceremony.
(08:36):
But honestly, it didn't fully hit me until I arrived
in Springfield and got caught up and all of the
the activities around the enshrinment, Like that's when I really
felt it, and that's when it was it was real,
you know. And I don't know everybody processes it differently,
but that was sort of for me, uh, the initial
(08:58):
emotion of the call and then you know, Okay, getting
back to reality, let's get back to work, let's call games.
They've got the playoffs, life, got to work in my
golf swing, all these things going through my mind. But
then when you arrived there in Springfield, it, man, it
hits you, and it's just it's something that you know,
the moment you're you're in awe, did you have like
(09:21):
jitters and nerves? And I'm not even talking about the day,
you know, the actual day of ensrinment, Like like you said,
when you got there, do you feel yourself like jitters?
I mean, I mean, I'm right now I'm having like
jitters and nerves and like my hairs are jumping up
just for the simple thought of like going through that
process and hearing other people talk about it. Just it's
(09:43):
just an unbelievable moment, Like what did you feel like nerves?
Like immediately because I know, you know, and I'm gonna
say game day, but I know Enshrinment day, speech day,
there's another level of nerves and excitement. Yeah. Well, you know,
at first of all, I had been to Enshrinment before.
I had been to like three two maybe three enshrinement ceremonies,
(10:04):
so I had been able to take it all in
and been there. I had seen you know, the dinner
of the night before, and then the actual you know,
the actual program where the inductees get up and share
their remarks, and so you know, I think, you know,
of course, they wanted us to send our remarks in advance,
(10:27):
and so I think in an effort to keep us
under a certain time limit. And so you know, I
think I I don't know if I fully prepare. I
think I wrote my speech out before I got there.
And I think the thing that worried me the most
was what I would say, because it's hard to it's
(10:50):
hard to sort of just encapsulate an entire career and
all the people who impact you, all the people who've
touched you, who've inspired you, who helped you along the way,
and do that in you know, eight minutes. You know
what I'm saying, and right, right, and uh, And so
they told me I was going first, and they were like,
(11:10):
we got a time limit. We want you to keep
the speech at six minutes. And so I probably kept
my speech at about eight minutes. And that's probably a
little bit of a regret. I wish I could have
said a little bit more. But you know, I really
just kind of went through a chronological order. And from
the time I started playing, who were the people who
inspired me? You know, I had as my presenters. I
(11:33):
had pat Ewing. Pat Ewing at Georgetown. I first, you know,
fell in love with the game of basketball watching Georgetown
versus North Carolina and in the eighty two NCAA Championship game. Yeah,
and so became season ticket holders at Georgetown. Watched every
you know, every game at home for pat Ewing from
(11:54):
the sophomore through senior year. Uh. And of course, you know,
I'll confess I was a Carolina I'm a fan too
from watching that game. But I had pat Ewing as
a presenter, you know, I had I had Coach k
you know, obviously he was a Hall of Famer, his impact,
his influence. I had Isaiah Thomas. You know, Isaiah was
(12:14):
someone who when I was young, I was sort of
chasing him and chasing his legend and it kind of
inspired me and motivated me when I was in Detroit
to strive for something, you know, strive for something that
you know that was, you know, to me was excellence
and so and he was always good and always kind
to me and supportive during those Detroit years and even afterwards.
(12:38):
And then Alonzo Morning, you know, Alonzo Morning was was
was also a presenter and that might have been an
odd one, but uh, and we were certainly adversaries and
we had our moments, you know, back in the nineties.
But you know, his medical challenge and going through with
the kidney issue and having to fight through and get
back and play as I was going through my own
(12:59):
stuff like that inspired me. And that inspired me how
he was able to push through, find a way and
resume his career and seemed to have peace of mind
even though he might not have been at the same
level he was at prior to that illness or that diagnosis.
So you know, it was identifying, like who were those
people who inspired me at different moments of my career
(13:22):
and my life. And then you know, just talking about
you know, when I first started playing, and the coaches
and you know, one thing I realized. I played nineteen
years in the NBA and I played four years in college.
I didn't have the time to think every teammate and
we would still be there if I went through. So
(13:43):
I made it a decision to not think like single
certain people out, but to thank all my teammates, but
just went through coaches, went through, doctors, trainers, family members,
And you know, I think because I was prepared and
I kind of wrote out what I was going to say,
(14:05):
and I knew where I was going, Like I was
actually looking forward to that moment, the nerves calm for me,
you know, knowing once I knew what I was going
to say. But you're still it's the same like calling games.
It's the same like before you play, you get that anxiousness,
you get that you know, it's hard to put in
words what that feeling is, and that feeling was definitely there,
(14:29):
you know, as the enshrineming ceremony began and the lead
up to it, you know, that was it was like
almost getting ready for a game. And that sounds crazy,
but but it was. It was an incredible moment, and
you know, it was one that the only regret is
just you know, don't put a time constraint. You know,
I shouldn't have put a time constraint on, you know,
(14:51):
on what I wanted to say or how long I
wanted to say it. And if I could do it
over again, I might talk just a little bit longer
than what I did. I'm sure, mister deliver and Colangelo
here in unight now, like no, Vincent, don't know, Vince,
don't listen to him, right, But yeah, I received the
phone call on that first and I went outside because
(15:12):
I've seen video, uh you know obviously you know, multiple
Hall of Famers receiving that phone call and around a
lot of people, which is you know, that's just all
well and good. It's just I don't know, I just
felt like, well it was it was April fool, So
I didn't want to have a bunch of people around
and it's a joke, you know, that's like a you know,
(15:33):
that's not that's not really what's up one. So I
was outside and just kind of took you know, enjoyed
the moment, still tried to figure it out, and once
you know, realized what it was and had my moment,
it was kind of just like a crazy feeling and
like you said about you know, it's now a thing.
(15:53):
You know, it's I feel like reality is coming later,
but it's a thing now, Like, Okay, I got the
phone call and I'm it in every step of the way.
So you know, it got leaked out a day early
prior to the following day, so prior to everything, and
that Saturday at the the press conference and the revealing
(16:14):
on game day, it was already kind of out. So
it still didn't really hit me. I think, you know,
I'm gonna be honest, it really hit me more than
anything when I walked into the room to start getting
fitted for my ring and my jacket. You know, you
walk in and you know, it's like it's like you
(16:35):
hear about Niagara Falls and then you get to go
see it and you're like, oh, so that's what they
were always talking about. It's kind of one of those things,
you know, it's like the wonders of the world when
you finally see it in personally, like, oh, so that's it.
I finally got to see that wonder of the world.
And I think that was kind of how it was.
I got there the night before whatever, but it was
until I walked in and that orange jacket to try
(16:59):
on was right there, and you see Basketball Hall of Fame,
the jersey with the twenty four the name on it,
and then after you do that, do the quick interview.
Then you go and sit down and then you're sizing
with the ring and you see the different rings from
other from past years, and you kind of like, WHOA,
this is now. This is not a joke. This is real.
And you go through that, and then obviously the revealing
(17:22):
and the press conference, and I'll tell you another awesome
moment was kind of sitting at the press conference. It
wasn't more the revealing that I did with the Billis
and and and those. It was more so the press
conference when you're sitting there with the media and you're
now talking about it and kind of going through like
the phases. Like you said, I think that's when it
(17:43):
started to hit me. And then obviously walking out at halftime,
you know, it was pretty cool. So it's it's slowly
getting there. But like I said, I know, I guess
my excitement. I have such an appreciation for what the
Hall of Fame means and what who's in it and
in the honor. I think that's where my excitement and
emotions come from. So it's uh, like I said, every
(18:05):
time I talk about I still get the chills, like
and like it's just happening again already. Well, you know,
you you you touched on something and it made me
realize that I don't think I really had a chance
to really feel it because like I'm prepping for the
Final four as a broadcaster, and and so I missed
out on some of the things. I remember the ring
sizing and and getting the jacket. But like you know,
(18:27):
I'm thinking about you know, Villanova and and and you
and c and you know Jared Barry and excuse me,
Joel Berry and Joel Berry yeah, and THEO Pens. Like
I'm I'm like, you know, you're getting ready and it's
it's it's a big moment. And so it was hard
for me to, I think, truly feel the moment of
you know, all that that comes with the announcement. I
(18:50):
think for me, I felt it as you as you
you know, described how you felt like I really felt
it once I got to Springfield, once I arrived. So
that's that next level. Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait, man,
I can't wait just to go through it. It's kind of.
It's like I said, it's cool you think of you know,
people ask me like you knows, as a as a
(19:11):
high school kid, let's just say, or a middle school kid,
middle school kid, you dream of being a professional basketball player.
We don't think about Hall of Fame until like the
back end of your career or when you're finished, and
now it's thrown your way. I never thought about it.
I was like I wanted to be you know, obviously
for me, I wanted to get drafted and be a
professional player. I wanted to win a dunk contest. I
(19:33):
wanted to possibly be Rookie of the year, you know,
play for a championship, maybe win a championship. You know,
all of these different things, score a lot of points,
hit game winners, all of these things you dream of
as a kid or well into your adult For us,
we played late in our forties, right, you know, so
you know, as an adult or just as an athlete general.
You know, you all of these things you want accomplish
(19:54):
it it's never thrown your way. And and kind of,
I guess how you said it is for me as well,
which I think heightens my appreciation for being there. You know,
I didn't win a championship, I didn't get to play
for one. But at the same time, you said something
to me the first time we talked, just like you said,
you know, you wondered what you know, you being a
(20:14):
Hall of Famer, But I did what did I do
to deserve it? But at the same time you said
you it all came to fruition, like you was like,
but I did deserve it, and sometimes you have to
kind of go through it. And I was in that position.
It's like, yeah, I look at some of the greats
in in in you know, icons in the Hall of
Fame right now, and sometimes I'm like, man, do I
(20:35):
belong here, you know, with this group? And then you know,
I'm just very thankful. And I think that's where the
emotion and appreciation for being in this position today comes from. No.
I mean, look, I think what I've learned is interesting
hearing you say that, like sometimes we don't see what
everyone else sees, and you know, I'm like, come on,
(20:56):
Vince is a no brain like you know, and and
I get it. I mean, you know, I mean, I remember,
you know, Vin sanity, I remember your great years in
New Jersey. I mean, you had a pretty awesome run.
You know, where you were, you know, as good as
anybody in the league. And you know, I also remember,
you know you at the end, you know, and you
(21:17):
kind of being a role player and being a you know,
veteran influence and veteran voice in the locker room and
still able to go out there and be productive. I
think sometimes we only remember what we experienced last. We
forget like the totality of the whole, the whole thing.
But I also think, and I told I know, I
(21:40):
told you this once. I told you we were playing
golf or something. But I don't know if this speaks
for you, but I know it spoke for me. That
you spend a lot of time focusing on what you
didn't accomplish. And you know, I didn't do this, I
didn't do that. I didn't win a championship, I didn't
win an MV I didn't do these things that you know,
(22:03):
were realistic goals and things that you know, if the break,
if things went a little bit differently, maybe could have happened.
You know, you and I I think you know, we
were on that trajector we could have been in VPS.
You know what I'm saying, It just didn't happen or whatever,
and that may not have been a goal. I don't know,
but I'm just saying, like, when you get that call
(22:24):
and when you are inducted into the Hall of Fame,
everything you didn't do or didn't accomplish, it's almost like
it cleanses you of that. Like you just like at
this point it doesn't matter because you ultimately are validated,
and you're validated because you're in this rarefied air with
you know. I think there's only maybe less than two
(22:47):
hundred people in the Hall Basketball Hall of Fame, and
that's you know, I don't know the exact number, but
crazy and after all these years, like you're in there
and it just kind of just it's like, you know what,
it's the ribbon on your career, but the soul so
just it makes everything good.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
It's like, Okay, this is and you know, and it's
funny man, because we talk about it, like I think
back to when I was a kid, or when I
first got to high school, and of course, yeah, I
dreamed of playing in college and I dreamed, you know, oh,
I love to play in the NBA. But with all
that's happened, the really good, and even some of the misfortunate.
(23:27):
I don't know if I dreamed big enough to do
what I ultimately did, and so I often sometimes would
remind myself, like, man, when I was a kid, like
what were my big dreams? You know, and like what
happened far exceeded what I dreamed of doing. And so
it's like, you know, the game has been so so
(23:48):
incredible to both of us and countless others, and I
think it's a moment to really reflect and appreciate sort
of the game, what it's brought you, the doors it's
opened people you've met, the people who've guided you and
helped you along the way. It's a powerful moment, and
I think you feel it either leading up to it,
(24:10):
but definitely in the moment if you will. Yeah, yeah.
And it's crazy you say that because you know, in
my mind, I said, man, I want to play fourteen
fifteen years because you know, one of the greatest players
that ever laced them up, Michael Jordan, did that. So
I'm like, if I can play fourteen fifteen years, I'm
doing okay. And then got the fourteen fifteen years, like, man,
I could keep going, and I took the challenge regardless
(24:33):
of the role that I had. You know, I wanted
to take the challenge of still being able to play
the game that I love for as long as I can.
And I was able to walk away because I wanted to,
not because I had to. You know, a lot of
there's a lot of people, as you know, that don't
get that opportunity, whether it's not getting a phone call
to play again, or injury or whatever the situation may be.
(24:54):
I chose to retire and walk away from the game,
and I'm truly blessed and thankful for that. So you're right,
You're right, you know, you know, you know, at the
end of the day, you know, I am, like I said,
I'm truly you know, honored to be a part of this.
And like you said, you know, maybe maybe I've done
more than I feel like I've accomplished and has has
(25:14):
has touched other people's lives through this game of basketball,
and you know, like I said, I have appreciation for them.
So yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
H H.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Popping back to the tournament real quick, like, did what
was what did you take from that tournament? You know,
I mean, I thought, for me personally, I thought we
saw a lot of kids who did who made an
unbelievable name for themselves, whether they stay another year or
go pro. Uh, you know, look at somebody like NC
State who you know, if you're if you watch ACC
(26:00):
basketball like we do. Yeah, we in c State didn't
have a wing in to pray of my opinion, and
they went on an unbelievable run and knocked us all
out to see themselves in the final four. You know,
obviously they ran into a darn good Purdue team and
you know what, what were you what were your takeaway
(26:20):
from this final four? What from this tournament in general? Well,
first of all, the wolfback they did have an incredible
run and they beat you guys once. They beat us
twice twice on that run. They beat you guys in
the ACC finals, and they beat us in the ACC
tournament and in the Elite eight. But you know what
I like, and you know, you and I we're primarily
(26:42):
in the in the world of the NBA, and that's
kind of where we work and kind of our sandbox,
if you will, even though you know we follow our
respective schools in the college game. But it's really cool.
The helicopter in uh to the college game at the
right and the most exciting time of the year. I
think the storylines. The thing I enjoy is is the
(27:03):
preparation and you know, learning and taking a deep dive
to really kind of learn and understand these teams, their journeys,
the individual players, not just their tendencies and style of play,
but their backgrounds. You know, we get to spend time
with these kids, We get to interview them between games
each weekend, and you find yourself as you go further
(27:28):
and further with these teams, you start pulling for all
of them because you like them. You know, even when Carolina,
you know, went through the I think they lost in
seventeen to Villanova and then came back in eighteen. I
spent a considerable amount of time with those kids, and
I know the heartbreak they went through the year before,
and then they come back and you know they're all
(27:51):
back and they're determined, and you pull for them. You
want to see all these kids experience what I was
so fortunate to experience. And I know that's not popular
in Durham with my Duke faithful to say that, but yeah,
I was happy for those kids at North Carolina that
you know, they were able to redeem themselves and come
back and win a championship. So with with all of
(28:11):
that said, Yukon, I mean they're dominance. Dan Hurley can
really coach, and how he has taken two separate teams,
two different teams, different personnel, and has been able to
get there and win and do it in dominant fashion.
I loved the Zach Eaedes story. You know, two time
(28:34):
National Player of the Year, one of the most dominant
figures in college basketball in recent years. He came back
and after being you know ousted in the first round
last year by Fairley Dickinson as a number one seed
and leading his team and playing just heroic basketball up
(28:55):
until the finals when they when they obviously ran into Yukon.
The State story, I mean, it's just you know t J. Burns,
you know, I mean the whole world fell in love
with Yeah. I think both d you know, both DJs
and and how they just played loose and free. And
you know, the coach, Kevin Keats, I mean, he was
on the hot seat. I mean they were probably gonna
(29:15):
fire him, and you know, for him to not only
win the A c C, it triggered some bonuses, it
triggered an extension on his contract, but to get to
the final four, you know, you hope for him that
now you know, they'll be transfers and they'll be recruits
that that want to play for him. They saw how
they played, They saw the freedom and the toughness and
(29:38):
the excitement, uh that that they played with. And so
so there's just a number of of of great stories
that happened throughout, uh throughout the NCAA tournament. Alabama, you
know how they played, and you know, obviously they beat
they beat you guys in a tough game. But you know,
in the n b A, you know, you have a
(30:00):
best of seven series and most times the best team wins.
The best team might be off for one game, they
might even be off for two games, but usually the
best team is going to win four out of seven.
But in the tournament, the best team doesn't always win.
And you can have you know, foul trouble, you can
(30:21):
have an off shooting half. You know, things can just
may not go your way. A team could get hot
that you're playing against and lo and behold, you know,
number one, number two seed, a favorite, a better team
for the most part, can lose. And I think that's
what makes it exciting is that it's one and done.
Keep talking about us right now. No no, no, no, no, no, no,
(30:44):
no no no. I mean we lost to an eleven
seed in the Elite eight, you know what I mean.
But I mean, look every year they're upsets, their bracketbusters,
and there's buzzer beaters, and it seems to happen every
tournament like clockwork. And that's why everybody tunes in. That's
why everybody tunes in. Yep, and I and I say that,
(31:05):
you know, and I know a lot of kids are
leaving early one and done's or whatnot. Obviously, the transfer
portal is what it is right now. Uh you know
we in Carolina going through that. Wis Seth all the best.
I want to throw that out there because it's great,
comes from a great family. I just think march Man
is regardless of the men's side, not as having as
(31:29):
many superstars, still had a lot of eyeballs and people
really excited about the moment. That's the one thing about
college basketball, more than than in anything else, is that
you're you're loyal to your school. So if your school
is there, your your fandom is going to take takeover.
And obviously go to another level as opposed to the NBA.
Sometimes you know your team's not winning for a couple
of years, and you know, people hop off the bandwagon
(31:51):
somewhere else. It's not really like that. And if college
is much and I think that's what makes college so great,
which brings me to the women's side. We talked about
the storylines and and and just the viewership and just
everything about it has been next level the women's game.
We don't see one and done's you know, so you're
(32:13):
you're you're getting that superstar for four years, three to
four years. I'm so, you know what four years now?
Five years for right now? And it's just great to follow.
And obviously Caitlin Clark and what she did was unbelievable,
but I'm gonna shift my attention to don Staley. And
I say that because her record in three years is
(32:35):
insane and I don't think it gets talked about enough,
you know, and and it's no disrespect to anybody else,
but I just think that's an unbelievable record. I think
it's an unbelievable feat for what she accomplished this year,
going undefeated and finishing with the championship. Because We've seen
over years teams go undefeated and don't get the job
done after what has happened to them last year, to
(32:58):
the team that they lost to last year. So I'm
sure it was extra motivation. But did I know you
were busy, But did you get a chance to watch
any of the the Final four or any of the
women's uh side in basketball this year? Yeah? No, I
mean I did. I did. I got a chance to watch,
and certainly congratulations to Don Staley and you know her team,
(33:19):
the game Cocks, I mean, just to do what they
did and a very competitive women's basketball landscape. It's you know,
I've known Dawn since we were in college. She was
at University of Virginia, and her resume, I mean, you know,
she she's going to be a two time Hall of Famer.
I mean, she was, you know, National Player of the
Year maybe two years in college. She was a multiple
(33:43):
All Star in the w n B A I think
she want she played in three Olympics as a as
a as a you know, as a player and won
three gold medals. And then she's coached in the Olympics
and won a gold medal as a coach, maybe two
gold medals. I'm not sure. And you know in this one,
you know, multiple championships. I mean, she's you know, look,
(34:04):
first of all, she's amazing. She doesn't get enough credit,
doesn't get enough you know of her flowers, if you will.
But the college women's basketball game and just women's basketball
in general, like it's had an inflection point, Like it's
at a point now where there's more eyeballs now on
(34:27):
the game. And that's for a number of reasons. And
look when Dawn played and Lisa Leslie and Cheryl or
Cheryl Shroop, Cynthia Cooper, like they were some incredible basketball
players and there was some incredible basketball being played that
back then, but they didn't get the interest, they didn't
(34:47):
get the eyeballs, they didn't get people watching. Now we're
starting to see that WNBA Finals. You had Las Vegas
and Aces versus New York Liberty. There was real excitement,
there was great viewership. Uh, you see it the last
few years in college basketball. Obviously Don Staley LSU last
year IOWA with Caitlin Clark. The numbers don't lie and uh,
(35:11):
and so I feel like it's taken a minute. You know,
it's taken a minute for for the women's game to
really catch on and become popular. But I think we're here,
and I think you'll continue continue to see uh the
game ascend on the women's side, and I think that
has you know, it have an incredible impact on revenue,
(35:33):
on player salaries, and a whole bunch, and so it's
well deserved. And I'm excited for you know, as a girl, dad,
I'm excited for uh, these women and future young women
who have inspirations and have a league where they can
come in uh and and pay it forward. And so
(35:53):
I'm really excited about the state of it. Absolutely, and
they're definitely opening the doors for the next young star
who was now growing up watching and dreaming of being
in their position. So yes, I think women's college women's
basketball in general is in a great place, not even
a good place. But you a college you were take
(36:15):
me through your recruiting process. You know we're talking about
college basketball. Well, let me first say, can Grant Hill
you now imagine what seventeen year old Grant Hill would
have made, who would have made in the nil world today?
With obviously you know we read your accolades and everything
(36:35):
that you guys accomplished in ninety one to ninety two.
Can you imagine yourself being in the NIL world today?
I mean, yeah, I can't imagine. You know, I think
I think we all would would have done well. I mean,
particularly particularly the high profile programs that you and I
played at and then just our games and you know,
(36:57):
and just you know, how we played, like I think
it would have been exciting. I know when you were
in school, you know, Carolina was on TV all the time,
and I'm sure I had great ratings, as you know,
did our teams and and so yeah, I mean I
can only imagine. I also know that it probably would
have been very, very different than what I experienced, not
(37:19):
not necessarily in the results, although it could have been.
But you know, I don't know, there was something about
you know, as much as I feel and I'm pro player,
and I think we're going through a change right now,
and sometimes it's uneasy, sometimes to some it's painful, but
college sports is going through a transformation, and part of
(37:40):
that is players now are being able to you know,
profit off their name, image, likeness, and some could say
it's it's you know, it's semi professional if you will,
with the transfer portal, but it would have been very different.
But I know for me, and I can't speak for
everybody who I played with for every contemporary mind, like
I enjoyed my experience. I enjoy what I went through.
(38:03):
And I also enjoyed the fact that, you know, you
didn't have social media. You know, you didn't have the
noise and you know, somebody plays poorly and people going
at him on Twitter or whatever. You know, we didn't have.
We were kind of isolated from all of the noise,
you know, and we had our school paper and the
(38:23):
Charlotte Observer. That's it. That's it. I mean, we had
the school newspaper and you know, the Charlotte Observers, So
you know, you didn't you know, and even then, like
the newspaper was you know, there was a vetting process
and they had an editorial board like you know, like
you know, they may they may say, hey, Grant Hill
didn't play well, Vince Carter didn't play well, but it
wasn't personal, you know, and it wasn't and so you know,
(38:46):
it's just a different time and this generation is different
and what they've experienced prior to arriving on campus is
much much different than what you and I experienced. But
I you know, look, I do think of, man like,
what that would have been like and how crazy it
would have been exactly. Yeah, I mean, man, you wouldn't
have been able to tell me nothing, right, you know,
(39:10):
that's just so crazy. Let me ask you a question.
Did you play? Were you ever a picture of quarterback? No? No,
I you know I knew I was around football and
knew how to throw a football pretty well, but I
never I never played organic But you never played? Okay.
The reason I asked that, why you? Why did Coach
K choose you for the inbound play for that big
(39:33):
shot in that big moment, Because I would put you
as a receipt as an athlete. I'm putting you somewhere
where I could throw it up, where you can go
get it as well. You know, so there's another option
to that. But why your coach K is a very
wise man. Noo, so he is a wise man. He
is a wise man. Look so really I think Youah,
(39:56):
so we used to do two man drills to start practice,
and you know, you had a partner, you know, one
of you gets the rebound, you outlet it and you
kind of run the wing and you go in for
a layup. That's so old school. Yeah, And then we would,
you know, we would go you'd go down the court
and then back and then the next time you rebound it,
you outlet it. Now you pull up, you know, the
(40:17):
guy pitch you, you hit a little jump shot, or
you shoot a jump shot. You do that, and then
you you know, then the next time it's you know,
you catch it on the wing, you throw it back
to the person of the free throw line and they shoot.
And so we'd go through a series of things that
ended with a baseball pass. You know, you start with
the ball, the guy's free throw line extended, and he
takes off down the court, and you want to throw
(40:39):
the ball to where they catch it and they can
just lay it in. And so I was always good,
like I mean, I could throw the ball like I
was around quarterback. Guy was around football. I never played,
but I always wanted to be a quarterback. And I
would always brag, you know, I'm talking trash like it's
in the jeans. It's in the jeans. You know, I
make a great pass in practice and you know it's
(41:01):
in the jeans. And so but I always was the like,
at least the most accurate and and and and those
exercises that we did every day. So in that moment,
you know, it's my second year. And I even think
we did it at the practice at the Spectrum the
day before the game. We did that sort of warm up,
(41:21):
so you know, I think coach knew that I could
throw the ball, you know, three quarters of the length
and at least, you know, at least get get into
the city. Yeah. And and and then Christian was you know,
was was unreal. And I mean he had missed a
shot the whole game. He was I think he was
ten for ten from the from the free throw line
(41:42):
and at that point was nine for nine from the field.
And you know, people who were young who maybe weren't
there to really understand or experience, uh, those duke teams,
Like Christian was incredible as a college player, I mean
absolutely dominant and I saw I mean, and he did
(42:02):
it against Shack twice. He did it against Alonzo like
he did it against you know, the three seven footers
in Arizona with Brian, the late Brian Williams and late
Sean Rooks and Ed Stoke. Like he brought it every
time he played. And so there was never any doubt
because there were a couple of options that I could
have done, but it was like, you know, I'm throwing
the ball to Christian and he already on fire anyway. Yeah,
(42:26):
he was on fire anyway, And so it was an
incredible moment. You know, there was a great moment, the
huddle leading up to the pass and the shot. You know,
Sean Woods from Kentucky hits that shot with you know,
just a little bit over two seconds and that was
the first time that season that I thought, oh, we're
(42:46):
not going to the Final four. As I'm walking seriously,
I'm walking to the bench. Spring break was the next
week at Duke, and I'm thinking, well, I guess I'll
be a spring break and I'm thinking, like, man, they
to talk about how great it was, I get a
chance of experiencing that, Like that's literally going through my mind.
And Coach k was brilliant in terms of his leadership
(43:08):
in that moment. And first of all, he didn't wait
for us to come to the bench. He met us
on the court and he was very confident in that
we're going to win. And I don't know if he
believed it, but he sold it, you know, he sold
it to us in that moment, and then what he
(43:29):
did and how he went about it. He drew up
a play and he said, look, Grant, can you make
the past? And I said, I can make the past.
And then he asked Christian, can you make the shot?
And Christian said, hey, if he makes the past, I'll
make the shot. And literally that's what was said. Now,
the brilliance in that was that he didn't tell me
(43:50):
to do it. He asked me if I could do it,
and like I took ownership, I said, yeah, I got it,
I can do this, And there's something about saying it
and seeing it amongst your teammates in that huddle in
that moment, Yes, I got I can do it. And
then you know, I mean Christian, who was like, you know,
super confident and borderline cocky, air agant. He's like, man,
(44:14):
Grant makes the past, I'll make the shot. Like now
I'm nervous again, like, oh man, Like now I got
I gotta make. But you know, when we exited that huddle,
like I believe, like I believe that we were gonna win.
And in sport you always have to have beliefs, even
coming down to the last few seconds. And you know,
I did my part. Nobody was on the ball. You
(44:38):
know Christian, you know, he had to catch it. He
took a dribble, did a little shimmy and scored. And
you know, it's been over thirty years and people still
remember it. People still talk about it, even people who
weren't even born who've seen it on replay over and
over again. So you know, we were kids, man, I
(45:01):
knew we were just trying to win a game. We
didn't understand the historical significance of that moment. And mind you,
people are listening for those who know Christian Laitner was
not the most athletic guy in the world. So he
had to hold off to get the ball. I mean,
he didn't catch it at as hot pointy, but he
did a great job of holding off just to be
able to get the ball. And then obviously it gets
(45:22):
to a chemi mood just able to get that shot
off high enough, and it was just like all net
And I mean it was a confidence shot. It wasn't no,
it wasn't a it wasn't any hesitation at all in
that jump shot in that moment, and I think t Hill,
his his reaction to it was was top five because
(45:43):
I mean, that's why I asked why you and I'm curious.
I would love to ask him. Uh No, T Lange,
my bad, wasn't he? I think it. T Lange was
on the corporate T Hill was the one that they captured.
T Hill, That's right. So I just seeing you know him,
it's kind of like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe
(46:04):
it because maybe there was doubt or is it just
you know, obviously just amazing that he made I don't know,
just because it's crazy to see everybody's reaction. I mean,
obviously your reaction is like, Okay, I believe he can
make it, but you never know until you actually see it. Yeah,
I mean, you don't know and you know it. You
(46:24):
know to me that that play sort of embodies like
the joy and the heartbreak of sport and competition, and
you know, you just you know, you you have these moments,
you have these you know, game winners, you know you
have these you know, you know sports pushes you to
you know, if I'm if I'm if I'm guarding Vince
(46:47):
Carter and I'm really good at defense, I'm going to
force you to do something incredible. You know, I'm going
to force you to do something that you have in you,
but you need someone to almost push you to ring
out of you, you know, and and so like moments
like that, like you know, it could be Derek Wittenberg
(47:07):
and the alley to Lorenzo Charles against Houston. You know,
it could be you know, Michael Jordan hitting that shot
against Georgetown in nineteen eighty two, Like like you need
competition and you need like to be pushed by greatness.
Greatness brings greatness out of you. And and and so
that to me is sort of a moment of one
the heartbreak here Kentucky thinks that they have the game won,
(47:28):
but also you know, doing the unthinkable, and and and
and you know, so yeah, I mean it was I
mean I didn't, like I said, I didn't understand it
when it happened. We were just in the moment. But yeah,
and then we I don't think we hadn't seen anything
like that. I mean I can't recall throwing the ball
the link. I think we've seen example since then, Bryce
(47:49):
Drew and others, But like I don't recall like, you know,
throwing the ball the link to the court two seconds
and like what's what's on the line is is it
trip to the Final four? And so there was disbelief,
Like I was in this. I told you I was
thinking about going to Beach Week, going to Dirty Myrtle.
(48:10):
You know, it's I heard that. Look, you guys were
(48:32):
able to be a very good un l V team
that you know, we're rock stars, you know if you
would And you know, what was that like the leading
up to the game. Obviously, you guys are duke, you know,
they're them Like I know, coming out, I'm sure what
was said, it's like, let's go shock the world. But
(48:55):
leading up into that game, were you guys at a
point where you know, it's kind of like every about
playing the Fab five really, you know as well, where
you guys had like, all right, let's go, let's go
upset the world because nobody believes in us right now.
You know, that's a great question. I mean, the feeling
that we had against Vegas in ninety one was different
(49:18):
than the feeling we had against the Fab five the
year later. But I'll get to that. So one of
the things that Vegas team, who was so dominant, they
had everybody back from I think everybody back from that
championship in ninety where they you know, they it was
the worst, you know, most lopsided win in NCAA Finals history.
(49:41):
And you know, we lost three seniors from that team,
I'll the Nabby, Robert Brickey, Phil Henderson. And so we
got better through the season. You know, we actually won
the regular season of the ACC. We got smacked by
you guys Carolina and the ACC finals, like y'all beat
us by like twenty t twenty five. But we kind
(50:02):
of found our rhythm and our peak. We started peaking
in the tournament, and you know, we had Vegas, you know,
in the semi final, and unlike the year before where
we only really had one day to prepare, we had
a whole week to prepare. And you know, coach like,
(50:22):
Vegas was dominant, like they were people thought UNLV could
beat NBA teams, like that's how dominant they were. They
were beating everybody. You know, you think you think Yukon
was dominant, which they were. Vegas not only destroyed everybody
by twenty or more, they destroyed everybody in the regular
season by twenty or more. I mean, they were that
dominant of a team. And so first of all, what
(50:44):
we did was we watched the game from the year before,
and we watched it, and we saw that and like
we didn't want to run from it, like we wanted
to own it. Although I wasn't on that team, but
we watched it. So you're sitting there like, oh, man,
I could have Yeah, well, I mean, and so you know,
are guys returning guys, Bobby Hurley, Christian Ladener, like they
(51:06):
were older, they were better. At this point, I was
there too. I mean, I played power forward, but I
was also the backup point guard. So we had another ballhand,
We had another pressure release, you know, against their pressure,
and that you know, I think was somewhat helpful as well.
And then you know, we just coach build us up.
You know. We talked about how we had been in
(51:27):
close games all season, you know, we had won them,
we had lost them. We practiced in the game situations
all season. Vegas had never been in a close game,
you know, and so our thing was just keep it close.
Let's keep it close because the pressure is on them.
And then we even did stuff where we scrimmaged five
against seven, you know, to get used to just their
(51:51):
speed and their athleticism. And you know, I actually think
we were not too far off in terms of athletic
It was a different team that year. We were pretty
athletic ourselves, but like we practice against seven people on defense,
and you know, going into it, we were confident, you know.
And it's a funny story. I'll tell this story, man,
(52:13):
and hopefully it won't be too long. But we get
to Indianapolis, you know, we do all this stuff Thursday,
we practice. Friday, we're staying at a holiday in hotel.
You know, all the duke people parents are there, and
so me and Tony Lang and Brian Davis and one
of our managers go to a we go to the
(52:35):
whole team goes to a mall. We go somewhere. We
had a couple of hours and they had this karaoke
booth or this karaoke store, and you go into a
recording booth and you sing a song and then you
could go record the video. So we go. We go
in there and we do temptations and we do you know,
(52:57):
Prince nineteen ninety nine. They didn't have a great you
know selection, so we those are all great songs, but
those right, so yeah, so we can't really sing and
we're in there singing and then we make a video
and they give us this tap the VCR tapes. So
we come back to the hotel this the night before
the game, and Tony Lang's dad he would bring his
(53:20):
VCR on the road and he would set it up.
He had his VCR his toolkit toolbox, and he would
set the VCR up and have it record the game,
and then all the parents would go back to their
room and watch the game after the game. You know,
this is before obviously technology and all that. So we
come back with the tapes and we're putting the tapes
in to show our parents and everybody. Everybody's in there,
(53:43):
and we're laughing, and the parents are looking around like
or they gonna get their ass kicked tomorrow. Like literally,
our parents are looking at it like like my mom
and dad told me after the fact, they're like, oh,
we just knew y'all were gonna lose. Like y'all out
here making videos and you know, I guess it's the
equivalent of TikTok and all that other stuff. But we're
making we're singing and making videos and all that. But
(54:06):
there was like there was a confidence, like we were
confident and we believed in Coach k and right away
we came out and we kind of punched them early
and we just showed them that you know, this is
a different year, this is a different team, and you know,
things kind of went our way. We made the right
place and we were fortunate to win. But really the job,
(54:28):
the job was in the preparation and that happened all
throughout the week leading up to the final four. So
what was the difference between that one and Fab five?
So great question. So when we beat Vegas, it was
almost like we arrived, you know, we were like it
was like it gave us Like it was almost like
(54:50):
it was like Tamiyak verse Show Enough and the Last
Dragon where you get the glow like you know, like
you know what I'm saying, Like it's like or like
when Luke's skty Walker all of a sudden, like you know,
Yoda has been working with him and then all of
a sudden he's a Jedi. Like it was just like
instantly like oh, we've arrived and we know what it takes.
(55:11):
And we beat Kansas the next day or two days
later for the championship and came back the next year
and we were pretty dominant. We came back and another thing.
This is another great moment. So the Kansas Carolina game happened,
and this is when when Dean Smith like got thrown out,
which is horrible that like the ref would throw Dee
(55:33):
Smith out like it was. But so we're in the
hallway and we're getting loose while their game is ending,
and then Kansas wins and coach brings us back in
the locker room and basically says, like, don't rationalize that
Carolina walls because you know, the rivalry between Duke and Carolina,
(55:55):
because both schools are in close proximity to one another,
the rivalry, like it's almost like we can't let Carolina
outd Us, I'll do us, well, we can't, you know
what I'm saying, Like, like you could win a championship,
but you lose the Carolina three times during the regular
during the season, it's almost like it evens out. You know,
it's crazy as that me and so it was almost
(56:17):
so it was almost like Coach k was like, don't
build an excuse to lose because it's okay because Carolina lost,
and which was an interesting moment. And Uh, anyway, but
to your question, so the next year we came back,
we were dominant. We were cocky. We went up to
(56:38):
Michigan in December and it was before exam week and
it was before they were officially the Fab five. I
think Jalen and Chris and Juwan were starting and Jimmy
and Ray were still coming off the bench, and you know,
we didn't really we didn't respect them. Like, we didn't
think they were going to be as good as they were.
(56:58):
I knew Chris or they're not ready yet. Yeah, we
didn't think they were ready and they hadn't really played
anybody of serious, you know, competition, So we kind of
came out with a lazy fair attitude. No, and it's
not not making an excuse, but like we didn't come
like with our a game and they and they brought
it and and and they almost beat us, and you know,
(57:21):
we got you know, we had a we had a
missed missshot. I got the rebound, tipped it out to Bobby.
Bobby goes up for a three. This is like with
ten seconds left and we're down three, and Weber runs
right through Bobby and you know, he goes to the line.
So we go to overtime. Chris filed out and we
(57:43):
went and so we knew that if we saw them again,
like we're gonna, we're gonna we're gonna have the appropriate fear,
as Greg Papovitch was. We didn't say that then, but
we we knew like, okay, we'll be ready, and you know,
and so when we saw them again in the finals,
they are obviously had improved. They were the Fab five now.
They had an incredible run. But and this may sound crazy,
(58:07):
it may sound cocky, like we knew we were gonna win.
We knew we were gonna win, and we did, and
we were ultimately pulled away in one by twenty. But
we were the Vegas now, you know, we were the
team that everybody was gunning for, and so we knew
what it was like the year before, and and really
(58:27):
that that game was an eye opener for us. It was.
It was a good game to have as we were
about to start the ACC regular season. That you can't
overlook anyone just because you're back, you know, defending champions.
You got to still come out and play. And now
we ended up losing to Carolina that year at Carolina.
(58:48):
We were sixteen seventeen to zero going into that game
and we lost at at Carolina dang, but we stayed baking,
breaking streets, don't we. Yeah, no, us you
It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the
VC Show. It's the.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Show Season two.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yeah, we back again, got the world cone in there
for so so through with tell of friends, my heart
got me on the for us slam, dump the whinstle.
Go on, then kick your feet up so you can
listen to Gee. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show.
It's the VC Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's the v c All right, all right, welcome to
the VC Show. I'm your host, Vince Carter. March Madness
has come and gone, but it was fantastic. A lot
of great basketball on the men's and women's side, a
lot of drama and playoff positioning happening in the NBA.
(00:53):
And I'll be discussing that and a lot more with
my special guests. So kick your feet up. The VC
Show starts. Now. You got what they wanted, Okay, My
guests highly decorated. A busy man that has his hand
(01:16):
and a little bit of everything. He was mister basketball
in Virginia in nineteen ninety McDonald's All American went to
a college that's up the rope from UNC, where his
jersey number thirty three was retired. Two time first team
All American. Excuse me, all acc ACC Player of the Year,
(01:37):
Defensive Player of the Year. Take your time, guys. I'm
not finished yet. Consistent consensus first and second team All American,
two time NCAA champion ninety one and ninety two. I
was like five that year. Uh CO Rookie of the
Year ninety five with Jason Kidd. He was drafted third
by the Detroit Pistons. Three times sportsman Ship Award is
(01:59):
awesome award to have for those who don't know much
about that. Seven time All Star with over seventeen thousand points.
I don't know if he knew that, and the twenty
eighteen Nate Smith Hall of Famer. He's a part owner
of the Atlanta Hawks, Baltimore Orioles, and the Orlando City
soccer team, and analysts for Turner Sports and CBS, which
(02:22):
did a fantastic job managing director of the USA men's
national basketball team, which I don't envy him. It's a
tough job, not at all South Lake High School's own.
Put your hands together for Grand Hill, Oh man, man,
what's good? Man? Hey? I appreciate that introduction. It's not
often that Tar Hills say nice things about Blue devils. Correct, correct,
(02:46):
So I appreciate that. So understand how long it took
me to get to write that stuff down because I
didn't know where I wanted to go with some of that.
I was like, ah, you know, that's what I figured.
I'd leave your college name out, you know, but I
figured some people get an idea. You know, you think
of UNC, you think of you know, where you guys go.
But let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
First of all, I saw you out obviously in Phoenix,
but man, you did a great job. I got a
chance to listen to you for the championship game because
I got up out of there. But how was it?
I mean, how was it? I'm watching? Were you impressed
with the players? And you know, I think anytime you
get to the final four, you know, you always have
(03:29):
a Cinderella story, but yet the cream of the crop
typically rise to the top. It sounded like a rap
bar right there. Yeah. No, First of all, congrats to you.
I know you were out there, you know, not as
a casual spectator, but it was announced that you were
part of the twenty twenty four Hall of Fame class
(03:50):
and you'll be enshrined later this summer. So congrats to
you on that and that announcement well deserved and I
can't wait to hear your remarks when you are are
inducted later this year. That'll be great. Hey, let me
say this to you since we're on that subject real
quick before we move into the march madness, I have
another appreciation for you because we we had a general
(04:13):
conversation about this in preparation of how it all works,
what to expect, and like you said, this is is
I look at it like giving information to U of
rookie or young men possibly getting adapted into the NBA.
(04:35):
You can tell him what it's like, but it's nothing
like experience it, experiencing it and going through it. And
I it was it was obviously better than inspected. But
I think the conversation we had helped me kind of
be prepared and able to handle a little better. And
on that note, how was your experience going through uh,
(04:56):
you know this that phone call you know, more so
then the speech first, but the phone call, you know,
we got our phone call on April first, which is
April fool. So I had to weed out if it
was a joke or not right, but it was yours. Yeah,
that's pretty funny April fools, now, you know. So what
(05:17):
people don't realize is that John Deliver, who's the executive
director of the Natesmith Hall of Natesmith Hall of Fame,
Basketball Hall of Fame, he calls all of the finalists.
So the finalists are announced at All Star weekend. Uh,
and then from that sort of pool of candidates, they
announced the class. And not everybody who made the finalist
(05:38):
roster makes the last cut, if you will. And so
he's calling you regardless if you make it or you
don't make it. He's letting you know, Hey you got in,
or hey you didn't get in. And U and so
for me, I got the date mixed up. I thought
I had the wrong date. And so the funny thing
was I was actually calling again during March Madness. It
(06:01):
was an Elite eight game in twenty eighteen, Duke versus Kansas.
I told Jim Nance, I told Bill Raftery, I said, look,
I might get the call during the game, and so
and so, actually, during the game, in the first half,
the phone rang. I didn't recognize the number, so I
answered it and it was a telemarket and so at
(06:23):
halftime I'm nervous. The game's over, Like I'm getting on
a jet. I'm flying to the Bahamas because it's spring
break that week for my kids. So I texted John
Deliva and I said, hey, man, like you know, like
you know, like you can call me whenever, like you know,
I'm doing a game, like right now, at your time. Yeah,
And He's like, no, no, I'm supposed to call you
on Tuesday. And so you know, I was like, oh, okay,
(06:47):
so I could relax now and actually call the game
and not worry about this phone call. But you know,
it was a little different from me. I mean, look,
everyone knew you were going to get it, and just
your career was decorated, storied all that, you did. You know,
I had a I had like three different careers in one.
(07:09):
You know, I had a really good start and you
you combined four years in college and then the six
seven years early on, and then I had, you know,
years I didn't play, and I was really hurt and
I just you know, I couldn't I couldn't get on
the court, and that was a hard part, a dark part.
And then the end, you know, I was I was
more in a role player, and you know, I came
(07:32):
back and I was healthy and I was able to contribute,
you know, not at the level early in my career.
So there was not that gradual decline that happened sometimes
as we get older. It just was abrupt for me
when I got hurt. And so anyway, I say all
that to say like I didn't know, Like I wasn't
sure if it would really happen or not. And so yeah,
(07:54):
I remember I was at I was at the pool.
I got the call, and you know, it was surreal.
It was. I'm not an overly emotional person, but you know,
I found myself, you know, slightly emotional in that moment,
just once once I got the call and then I
hung up and just had a moment to process it
(08:16):
and think about it, and and so yeah, it was.
It was incredible. It was absolutely incredible. But it didn't
fully sink in. You know. Obviously, the final four came
up that weekend in San Antonio and the announcement happened,
and then there's the lead up to the actual enshrinement ceremony.
(08:36):
But honestly, it didn't fully hit me until I arrived
in Springfield and got caught up and all of the
the activities around the enshrinment, Like that's when I really
felt it, and that's when it was it was real,
you know. And I don't know everybody processes it differently,
but that was sort of for me, uh, the initial
(08:58):
emotion of the call and then you know, Okay, getting
back to reality, let's get back to work, let's call games.
They've got the playoffs, life, got to work in my
golf swing, all these things going through my mind. But
then when you arrived there in Springfield, it, man, it
hits you, and it's just it's something that you know,
the moment you're you're in awe, did you have like
(09:21):
jitters and nerves? And I'm not even talking about the day,
you know, the actual day of ensrinment, Like like you said,
when you got there, do you feel yourself like jitters?
I mean, I mean, I'm right now I'm having like
jitters and nerves and like my hairs are jumping up
just for the simple thought of like going through that
process and hearing other people talk about it. Just it's
(09:43):
just an unbelievable moment, Like what did you feel like nerves?
Like immediately because I know, you know, and I'm gonna
say game day, but I know Enshrinment day, speech day,
there's another level of nerves and excitement. Yeah. Well, you know,
at first of all, I had been to Enshrinment before.
I had been to like three two maybe three enshrinement ceremonies,
(10:04):
so I had been able to take it all in
and been there. I had seen you know, the dinner
of the night before, and then the actual you know,
the actual program where the inductees get up and share
their remarks, and so you know, I think, you know,
of course, they wanted us to send our remarks in advance,
(10:27):
and so I think in an effort to keep us
under a certain time limit. And so you know, I
think I I don't know if I fully prepare. I
think I wrote my speech out before I got there.
And I think the thing that worried me the most
was what I would say, because it's hard to it's
(10:50):
hard to sort of just encapsulate an entire career and
all the people who impact you, all the people who've
touched you, who've inspired you, who helped you along the way,
and do that in you know, eight minutes. You know
what I'm saying, and right, right, and uh, And so
they told me I was going first, and they were like,
(11:10):
we got a time limit. We want you to keep
the speech at six minutes. And so I probably kept
my speech at about eight minutes. And that's probably a
little bit of a regret. I wish I could have
said a little bit more. But you know, I really
just kind of went through a chronological order. And from
the time I started playing, who were the people who
inspired me? You know, I had as my presenters. I
(11:33):
had pat Ewing. Pat Ewing at Georgetown. I first, you know,
fell in love with the game of basketball watching Georgetown
versus North Carolina and in the eighty two NCAA Championship game. Yeah,
and so became season ticket holders at Georgetown. Watched every
you know, every game at home for pat Ewing from
(11:54):
the sophomore through senior year. Uh. And of course, you know,
I'll confess I was a Carolina I'm a fan too
from watching that game. But I had pat Ewing as
a presenter, you know, I had I had Coach k
you know, obviously he was a Hall of Famer, his impact,
his influence. I had Isaiah Thomas. You know, Isaiah was
(12:14):
someone who when I was young, I was sort of
chasing him and chasing his legend and it kind of
inspired me and motivated me when I was in Detroit
to strive for something, you know, strive for something that
you know that was, you know, to me was excellence
and so and he was always good and always kind
to me and supportive during those Detroit years and even afterwards.
(12:38):
And then Alonzo Morning, you know, Alonzo Morning was was
was also a presenter and that might have been an
odd one, but uh, and we were certainly adversaries and
we had our moments, you know, back in the nineties.
But you know, his medical challenge and going through with
the kidney issue and having to fight through and get
back and play as I was going through my own
(12:59):
stuff like that inspired me. And that inspired me how
he was able to push through, find a way and
resume his career and seemed to have peace of mind
even though he might not have been at the same
level he was at prior to that illness or that diagnosis.
So you know, it was identifying, like who were those
people who inspired me at different moments of my career
(13:22):
and my life. And then you know, just talking about
you know, when I first started playing, and the coaches
and you know, one thing I realized. I played nineteen
years in the NBA and I played four years in college.
I didn't have the time to think every teammate and
we would still be there if I went through. So
(13:43):
I made it a decision to not think like single
certain people out, but to thank all my teammates, but
just went through coaches, went through, doctors, trainers, family members,
And you know, I think because I was prepared and
I kind of wrote out what I was going to say,
(14:05):
and I knew where I was going, Like I was
actually looking forward to that moment, the nerves calm for me,
you know, knowing once I knew what I was going
to say. But you're still it's the same like calling games.
It's the same like before you play, you get that anxiousness,
you get that you know, it's hard to put in
words what that feeling is, and that feeling was definitely there,
(14:29):
you know, as the enshrineming ceremony began and the lead
up to it, you know, that was it was like
almost getting ready for a game. And that sounds crazy,
but but it was. It was an incredible moment, and
you know, it was one that the only regret is
just you know, don't put a time constraint. You know,
I shouldn't have put a time constraint on, you know,
(14:51):
on what I wanted to say or how long I
wanted to say it. And if I could do it
over again, I might talk just a little bit longer
than what I did. I'm sure, mister deliver and Colangelo
here in unight now, like no, Vincent, don't know, Vince,
don't listen to him, right, But yeah, I received the
phone call on that first and I went outside because
(15:12):
I've seen video, uh you know obviously you know, multiple
Hall of Famers receiving that phone call and around a
lot of people, which is you know, that's just all
well and good. It's just I don't know, I just
felt like, well it was it was April fool, So
I didn't want to have a bunch of people around
and it's a joke, you know, that's like a you know,
(15:33):
that's not that's not really what's up one. So I
was outside and just kind of took you know, enjoyed
the moment, still tried to figure it out, and once
you know, realized what it was and had my moment,
it was kind of just like a crazy feeling and
like you said about you know, it's now a thing.
(15:53):
You know, it's I feel like reality is coming later,
but it's a thing now, Like, Okay, I got the
phone call and I'm it in every step of the way.
So you know, it got leaked out a day early
prior to the following day, so prior to everything, and
that Saturday at the the press conference and the revealing
(16:14):
on game day, it was already kind of out. So
it still didn't really hit me. I think, you know,
I'm gonna be honest, it really hit me more than
anything when I walked into the room to start getting
fitted for my ring and my jacket. You know, you
walk in and you know, it's like it's like you
(16:35):
hear about Niagara Falls and then you get to go
see it and you're like, oh, so that's what they
were always talking about. It's kind of one of those things,
you know, it's like the wonders of the world when
you finally see it in personally, like, oh, so that's it.
I finally got to see that wonder of the world.
And I think that was kind of how it was.
I got there the night before whatever, but it was
until I walked in and that orange jacket to try
(16:59):
on was right there, and you see Basketball Hall of Fame,
the jersey with the twenty four the name on it,
and then after you do that, do the quick interview.
Then you go and sit down and then you're sizing
with the ring and you see the different rings from
other from past years, and you kind of like, WHOA,
this is now. This is not a joke. This is real.
And you go through that, and then obviously the revealing
(17:22):
and the press conference, and I'll tell you another awesome
moment was kind of sitting at the press conference. It
wasn't more the revealing that I did with the Billis
and and and those. It was more so the press
conference when you're sitting there with the media and you're
now talking about it and kind of going through like
the phases. Like you said, I think that's when it
(17:43):
started to hit me. And then obviously walking out at halftime,
you know, it was pretty cool. So it's it's slowly
getting there. But like I said, I know, I guess
my excitement. I have such an appreciation for what the
Hall of Fame means and what who's in it and
in the honor. I think that's where my excitement and
emotions come from. So it's uh, like I said, every
(18:05):
time I talk about I still get the chills, like
and like it's just happening again already. Well, you know,
you you you touched on something and it made me
realize that I don't think I really had a chance
to really feel it because like I'm prepping for the
Final four as a broadcaster, and and so I missed
out on some of the things. I remember the ring
sizing and and getting the jacket. But like you know,
(18:27):
I'm thinking about you know, Villanova and and and you
and c and you know Jared Barry and excuse me,
Joel Berry and Joel Berry yeah, and THEO Pens. Like
I'm I'm like, you know, you're getting ready and it's
it's it's a big moment. And so it was hard
for me to, I think, truly feel the moment of
you know, all that that comes with the announcement. I
(18:50):
think for me, I felt it as you as you
you know, described how you felt like I really felt
it once I got to Springfield, once I arrived. So
that's that next level. Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait, man,
I can't wait just to go through it. It's kind of.
It's like I said, it's cool you think of you know,
people ask me like you knows, as a as a
(19:11):
high school kid, let's just say, or a middle school kid,
middle school kid, you dream of being a professional basketball player.
We don't think about Hall of Fame until like the
back end of your career or when you're finished, and
now it's thrown your way. I never thought about it.
I was like I wanted to be you know, obviously
for me, I wanted to get drafted and be a
professional player. I wanted to win a dunk contest. I
(19:33):
wanted to possibly be Rookie of the year, you know,
play for a championship, maybe win a championship. You know,
all of these different things, score a lot of points,
hit game winners, all of these things you dream of
as a kid or well into your adult For us,
we played late in our forties, right, you know, so
you know, as an adult or just as an athlete general.
You know, you all of these things you want accomplish
(19:54):
it it's never thrown your way. And and kind of,
I guess how you said it is for me as well,
which I think heightens my appreciation for being there. You know,
I didn't win a championship, I didn't get to play
for one. But at the same time, you said something
to me the first time we talked, just like you said,
you know, you wondered what you know, you being a
(20:14):
Hall of Famer, But I did what did I do
to deserve it? But at the same time you said
you it all came to fruition, like you was like,
but I did deserve it, and sometimes you have to
kind of go through it. And I was in that position.
It's like, yeah, I look at some of the greats
in in in you know, icons in the Hall of
Fame right now, and sometimes I'm like, man, do I
(20:35):
belong here, you know, with this group? And then you know,
I'm just very thankful. And I think that's where the
emotion and appreciation for being in this position today comes from. No.
I mean, look, I think what I've learned is interesting
hearing you say that, like sometimes we don't see what
everyone else sees, and you know, I'm like, come on,
(20:56):
Vince is a no brain like you know, and and
I get it. I mean, you know, I mean, I remember,
you know, Vin sanity, I remember your great years in
New Jersey. I mean, you had a pretty awesome run.
You know, where you were, you know, as good as
anybody in the league. And you know, I also remember,
you know you at the end, you know, and you
(21:17):
kind of being a role player and being a you know,
veteran influence and veteran voice in the locker room and
still able to go out there and be productive. I
think sometimes we only remember what we experienced last. We
forget like the totality of the whole, the whole thing.
But I also think, and I told I know, I
(21:40):
told you this once. I told you we were playing
golf or something. But I don't know if this speaks
for you, but I know it spoke for me. That
you spend a lot of time focusing on what you
didn't accomplish. And you know, I didn't do this, I
didn't do that. I didn't win a championship, I didn't
win an MV I didn't do these things that you know,
(22:03):
were realistic goals and things that you know, if the break,
if things went a little bit differently, maybe could have happened.
You know, you and I I think you know, we
were on that trajector we could have been in VPS.
You know what I'm saying, It just didn't happen or whatever,
and that may not have been a goal. I don't know,
but I'm just saying, like, when you get that call
(22:24):
and when you are inducted into the Hall of Fame,
everything you didn't do or didn't accomplish, it's almost like
it cleanses you of that. Like you just like at
this point it doesn't matter because you ultimately are validated,
and you're validated because you're in this rarefied air with
you know. I think there's only maybe less than two
(22:47):
hundred people in the Hall Basketball Hall of Fame, and
that's you know, I don't know the exact number, but
crazy and after all these years, like you're in there
and it just kind of just it's like, you know what,
it's the ribbon on your career, but the soul so
just it makes everything good.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
It's like, Okay, this is and you know, and it's
funny man, because we talk about it, like I think
back to when I was a kid, or when I
first got to high school, and of course, yeah, I
dreamed of playing in college and I dreamed, you know, oh,
I love to play in the NBA. But with all
that's happened, the really good, and even some of the misfortunate.
(23:27):
I don't know if I dreamed big enough to do
what I ultimately did, and so I often sometimes would
remind myself, like, man, when I was a kid, like
what were my big dreams? You know, and like what
happened far exceeded what I dreamed of doing. And so
it's like, you know, the game has been so so
(23:48):
incredible to both of us and countless others, and I
think it's a moment to really reflect and appreciate sort
of the game, what it's brought you, the doors it's
opened people you've met, the people who've guided you and
helped you along the way. It's a powerful moment, and
I think you feel it either leading up to it,
(24:10):
but definitely in the moment if you will. Yeah, yeah.
And it's crazy you say that because you know, in
my mind, I said, man, I want to play fourteen
fifteen years because you know, one of the greatest players
that ever laced them up, Michael Jordan, did that. So
I'm like, if I can play fourteen fifteen years, I'm
doing okay. And then got the fourteen fifteen years, like, man,
I could keep going, and I took the challenge regardless
(24:33):
of the role that I had. You know, I wanted
to take the challenge of still being able to play
the game that I love for as long as I can.
And I was able to walk away because I wanted to,
not because I had to. You know, a lot of
there's a lot of people, as you know, that don't
get that opportunity, whether it's not getting a phone call
to play again, or injury or whatever the situation may be.
(24:54):
I chose to retire and walk away from the game,
and I'm truly blessed and thankful for that. So you're right,
You're right, you know, you know, you know, at the
end of the day, you know, I am, like I said,
I'm truly you know, honored to be a part of this.
And like you said, you know, maybe maybe I've done
more than I feel like I've accomplished and has has
(25:14):
has touched other people's lives through this game of basketball,
and you know, like I said, I have appreciation for them.
So yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
H H.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Popping back to the tournament real quick, like, did what
was what did you take from that tournament? You know,
I mean, I thought, for me personally, I thought we
saw a lot of kids who did who made an
unbelievable name for themselves, whether they stay another year or
go pro. Uh, you know, look at somebody like NC
State who you know, if you're if you watch ACC
(26:00):
basketball like we do. Yeah, we in c State didn't
have a wing in to pray of my opinion, and
they went on an unbelievable run and knocked us all
out to see themselves in the final four. You know,
obviously they ran into a darn good Purdue team and
you know what, what were you what were your takeaway
(26:20):
from this final four? What from this tournament in general? Well,
first of all, the wolfback they did have an incredible
run and they beat you guys once. They beat us
twice twice on that run. They beat you guys in
the ACC finals, and they beat us in the ACC
tournament and in the Elite eight. But you know what
I like, and you know, you and I we're primarily
(26:42):
in the in the world of the NBA, and that's
kind of where we work and kind of our sandbox,
if you will, even though you know we follow our
respective schools in the college game. But it's really cool.
The helicopter in uh to the college game at the
right and the most exciting time of the year. I
think the storylines. The thing I enjoy is is the
(27:03):
preparation and you know, learning and taking a deep dive
to really kind of learn and understand these teams, their journeys,
the individual players, not just their tendencies and style of play,
but their backgrounds. You know, we get to spend time
with these kids, We get to interview them between games
each weekend, and you find yourself as you go further
(27:28):
and further with these teams, you start pulling for all
of them because you like them. You know, even when Carolina,
you know, went through the I think they lost in
seventeen to Villanova and then came back in eighteen. I
spent a considerable amount of time with those kids, and
I know the heartbreak they went through the year before,
and then they come back and you know they're all
(27:51):
back and they're determined, and you pull for them. You
want to see all these kids experience what I was
so fortunate to experience. And I know that's not popular
in Durham with my Duke faithful to say that, but yeah,
I was happy for those kids at North Carolina that
you know, they were able to redeem themselves and come
back and win a championship. So with with all of
(28:11):
that said, Yukon, I mean they're dominance. Dan Hurley can
really coach, and how he has taken two separate teams,
two different teams, different personnel, and has been able to
get there and win and do it in dominant fashion.
I loved the Zach Eaedes story. You know, two time
(28:34):
National Player of the Year, one of the most dominant
figures in college basketball in recent years. He came back
and after being you know ousted in the first round
last year by Fairley Dickinson as a number one seed
and leading his team and playing just heroic basketball up
(28:55):
until the finals when they when they obviously ran into Yukon.
The State story, I mean, it's just you know t J. Burns,
you know, I mean the whole world fell in love
with Yeah. I think both d you know, both DJs
and and how they just played loose and free. And
you know, the coach, Kevin Keats, I mean, he was
on the hot seat. I mean they were probably gonna
(29:15):
fire him, and you know, for him to not only
win the A c C, it triggered some bonuses, it
triggered an extension on his contract, but to get to
the final four, you know, you hope for him that
now you know, they'll be transfers and they'll be recruits
that that want to play for him. They saw how
they played, They saw the freedom and the toughness and
(29:38):
the excitement, uh that that they played with. And so
so there's just a number of of of great stories
that happened throughout, uh throughout the NCAA tournament. Alabama, you
know how they played, and you know, obviously they beat
they beat you guys in a tough game. But you know,
in the n b A, you know, you have a
(30:00):
best of seven series and most times the best team wins.
The best team might be off for one game, they
might even be off for two games, but usually the
best team is going to win four out of seven.
But in the tournament, the best team doesn't always win.
And you can have you know, foul trouble, you can
(30:21):
have an off shooting half. You know, things can just
may not go your way. A team could get hot
that you're playing against and lo and behold, you know,
number one, number two seed, a favorite, a better team
for the most part, can lose. And I think that's
what makes it exciting is that it's one and done.
Keep talking about us right now. No no, no, no, no, no, no,
(30:44):
no no no. I mean we lost to an eleven
seed in the Elite eight, you know what I mean.
But I mean, look every year they're upsets, their bracketbusters,
and there's buzzer beaters, and it seems to happen every
tournament like clockwork. And that's why everybody tunes in. That's
why everybody tunes in. Yep, and I and I say that,
(31:05):
you know, and I know a lot of kids are
leaving early one and done's or whatnot. Obviously, the transfer
portal is what it is right now. Uh you know
we in Carolina going through that. Wis Seth all the best.
I want to throw that out there because it's great,
comes from a great family. I just think march Man
is regardless of the men's side, not as having as
(31:29):
many superstars, still had a lot of eyeballs and people
really excited about the moment. That's the one thing about
college basketball, more than than in anything else, is that
you're you're loyal to your school. So if your school
is there, your your fandom is going to take takeover.
And obviously go to another level as opposed to the NBA.
Sometimes you know your team's not winning for a couple
of years, and you know, people hop off the bandwagon
(31:51):
somewhere else. It's not really like that. And if college
is much and I think that's what makes college so great,
which brings me to the women's side. We talked about
the storylines and and and just the viewership and just
everything about it has been next level the women's game.
We don't see one and done's you know, so you're
(32:13):
you're you're getting that superstar for four years, three to
four years. I'm so, you know what four years now?
Five years for right now? And it's just great to follow.
And obviously Caitlin Clark and what she did was unbelievable,
but I'm gonna shift my attention to don Staley. And
I say that because her record in three years is
(32:35):
insane and I don't think it gets talked about enough,
you know, and and it's no disrespect to anybody else,
but I just think that's an unbelievable record. I think
it's an unbelievable feat for what she accomplished this year,
going undefeated and finishing with the championship. Because We've seen
over years teams go undefeated and don't get the job
done after what has happened to them last year, to
(32:58):
the team that they lost to last year. So I'm
sure it was extra motivation. But did I know you
were busy, But did you get a chance to watch
any of the the Final four or any of the
women's uh side in basketball this year? Yeah? No, I
mean I did. I did. I got a chance to watch,
and certainly congratulations to Don Staley and you know her team,
(33:19):
the game Cocks, I mean, just to do what they
did and a very competitive women's basketball landscape. It's you know,
I've known Dawn since we were in college. She was
at University of Virginia, and her resume, I mean, you know,
she she's going to be a two time Hall of Famer.
I mean, she was, you know, National Player of the
Year maybe two years in college. She was a multiple
(33:43):
All Star in the w n B A I think
she want she played in three Olympics as a as
a as a you know, as a player and won
three gold medals. And then she's coached in the Olympics
and won a gold medal as a coach, maybe two
gold medals. I'm not sure. And you know in this one,
you know, multiple championships. I mean, she's you know, look,
(34:04):
first of all, she's amazing. She doesn't get enough credit,
doesn't get enough you know of her flowers, if you will.
But the college women's basketball game and just women's basketball
in general, like it's had an inflection point, Like it's
at a point now where there's more eyeballs now on
(34:27):
the game. And that's for a number of reasons. And
look when Dawn played and Lisa Leslie and Cheryl or
Cheryl Shroop, Cynthia Cooper, like they were some incredible basketball
players and there was some incredible basketball being played that
back then, but they didn't get the interest, they didn't
(34:47):
get the eyeballs, they didn't get people watching. Now we're
starting to see that WNBA Finals. You had Las Vegas
and Aces versus New York Liberty. There was real excitement,
there was great viewership. Uh, you see it the last
few years in college basketball. Obviously Don Staley LSU last
year IOWA with Caitlin Clark. The numbers don't lie and uh,
(35:11):
and so I feel like it's taken a minute. You know,
it's taken a minute for for the women's game to
really catch on and become popular. But I think we're here,
and I think you'll continue continue to see uh the
game ascend on the women's side, and I think that
has you know, it have an incredible impact on revenue,
(35:33):
on player salaries, and a whole bunch, and so it's
well deserved. And I'm excited for you know, as a girl, dad,
I'm excited for uh, these women and future young women
who have inspirations and have a league where they can
come in uh and and pay it forward. And so
(35:53):
I'm really excited about the state of it. Absolutely, and
they're definitely opening the doors for the next young star
who was now growing up watching and dreaming of being
in their position. So yes, I think women's college women's
basketball in general is in a great place, not even
a good place. But you a college you were take
(36:15):
me through your recruiting process. You know we're talking about
college basketball. Well, let me first say, can Grant Hill
you now imagine what seventeen year old Grant Hill would
have made, who would have made in the nil world today?
With obviously you know we read your accolades and everything
(36:35):
that you guys accomplished in ninety one to ninety two.
Can you imagine yourself being in the NIL world today?
I mean, yeah, I can't imagine. You know, I think
I think we all would would have done well. I mean,
particularly particularly the high profile programs that you and I
played at and then just our games and you know,
(36:57):
and just you know, how we played, like I think
it would have been exciting. I know when you were
in school, you know, Carolina was on TV all the time,
and I'm sure I had great ratings, as you know,
did our teams and and so yeah, I mean I
can only imagine. I also know that it probably would
have been very, very different than what I experienced, not
(37:19):
not necessarily in the results, although it could have been.
But you know, I don't know, there was something about
you know, as much as I feel and I'm pro player,
and I think we're going through a change right now,
and sometimes it's uneasy, sometimes to some it's painful, but
college sports is going through a transformation, and part of
(37:40):
that is players now are being able to you know,
profit off their name, image, likeness, and some could say
it's it's you know, it's semi professional if you will,
with the transfer portal, but it would have been very different.
But I know for me, and I can't speak for
everybody who I played with for every contemporary mind, like
I enjoyed my experience. I enjoy what I went through.
(38:03):
And I also enjoyed the fact that, you know, you
didn't have social media. You know, you didn't have the
noise and you know, somebody plays poorly and people going
at him on Twitter or whatever. You know, we didn't have.
We were kind of isolated from all of the noise,
you know, and we had our school paper and the
(38:23):
Charlotte Observer. That's it. That's it. I mean, we had
the school newspaper and you know, the Charlotte Observers, So
you know, you didn't you know, and even then, like
the newspaper was you know, there was a vetting process
and they had an editorial board like you know, like
you know, they may they may say, hey, Grant Hill
didn't play well, Vince Carter didn't play well, but it
wasn't personal, you know, and it wasn't and so you know,
(38:46):
it's just a different time and this generation is different
and what they've experienced prior to arriving on campus is
much much different than what you and I experienced. But
I you know, look, I do think of, man like,
what that would have been like and how crazy it
would have been exactly. Yeah, I mean, man, you wouldn't
have been able to tell me nothing, right, you know,
(39:10):
that's just so crazy. Let me ask you a question.
Did you play? Were you ever a picture of quarterback? No? No,
I you know I knew I was around football and
knew how to throw a football pretty well, but I
never I never played organic But you never played? Okay.
The reason I asked that, why you? Why did Coach
K choose you for the inbound play for that big
(39:33):
shot in that big moment, Because I would put you
as a receipt as an athlete. I'm putting you somewhere
where I could throw it up, where you can go
get it as well. You know, so there's another option
to that. But why your coach K is a very
wise man. Noo, so he is a wise man. He
is a wise man. Look so really I think Youah,
(39:56):
so we used to do two man drills to start practice,
and you know, you had a partner, you know, one
of you gets the rebound, you outlet it and you
kind of run the wing and you go in for
a layup. That's so old school. Yeah, And then we would,
you know, we would go you'd go down the court
and then back and then the next time you rebound it,
you outlet it. Now you pull up, you know, the
(40:17):
guy pitch you, you hit a little jump shot, or
you shoot a jump shot. You do that, and then
you you know, then the next time it's you know,
you catch it on the wing, you throw it back
to the person of the free throw line and they shoot.
And so we'd go through a series of things that
ended with a baseball pass. You know, you start with
the ball, the guy's free throw line extended, and he
takes off down the court, and you want to throw
(40:39):
the ball to where they catch it and they can
just lay it in. And so I was always good,
like I mean, I could throw the ball like I
was around quarterback. Guy was around football. I never played,
but I always wanted to be a quarterback. And I
would always brag, you know, I'm talking trash like it's
in the jeans. It's in the jeans. You know, I
make a great pass in practice and you know it's
(41:01):
in the jeans. And so but I always was the like,
at least the most accurate and and and and those
exercises that we did every day. So in that moment,
you know, it's my second year. And I even think
we did it at the practice at the Spectrum the
day before the game. We did that sort of warm up,
(41:21):
so you know, I think coach knew that I could
throw the ball, you know, three quarters of the length
and at least, you know, at least get get into
the city. Yeah. And and and then Christian was you know,
was was unreal. And I mean he had missed a
shot the whole game. He was I think he was
ten for ten from the from the free throw line
(41:42):
and at that point was nine for nine from the field.
And you know, people who were young who maybe weren't
there to really understand or experience, uh, those duke teams,
Like Christian was incredible as a college player, I mean
absolutely dominant and I saw I mean, and he did
(42:02):
it against Shack twice. He did it against Alonzo like
he did it against you know, the three seven footers
in Arizona with Brian, the late Brian Williams and late
Sean Rooks and Ed Stoke. Like he brought it every
time he played. And so there was never any doubt
because there were a couple of options that I could
have done, but it was like, you know, I'm throwing
the ball to Christian and he already on fire anyway. Yeah,
(42:26):
he was on fire anyway, And so it was an
incredible moment. You know, there was a great moment, the
huddle leading up to the pass and the shot. You know,
Sean Woods from Kentucky hits that shot with you know,
just a little bit over two seconds and that was
the first time that season that I thought, oh, we're
(42:46):
not going to the Final four. As I'm walking seriously,
I'm walking to the bench. Spring break was the next
week at Duke, and I'm thinking, well, I guess I'll
be a spring break and I'm thinking, like, man, they
to talk about how great it was, I get a
chance of experiencing that, Like that's literally going through my mind.
And Coach k was brilliant in terms of his leadership
(43:08):
in that moment. And first of all, he didn't wait
for us to come to the bench. He met us
on the court and he was very confident in that
we're going to win. And I don't know if he
believed it, but he sold it, you know, he sold
it to us in that moment, and then what he
(43:29):
did and how he went about it. He drew up
a play and he said, look, Grant, can you make
the past? And I said, I can make the past.
And then he asked Christian, can you make the shot?
And Christian said, hey, if he makes the past, I'll
make the shot. And literally that's what was said. Now,
the brilliance in that was that he didn't tell me
(43:50):
to do it. He asked me if I could do it,
and like I took ownership, I said, yeah, I got it,
I can do this, And there's something about saying it
and seeing it amongst your teammates in that huddle in
that moment, Yes, I got I can do it. And
then you know, I mean Christian, who was like, you know,
super confident and borderline cocky, air agant. He's like, man,
(44:14):
Grant makes the past, I'll make the shot. Like now
I'm nervous again, like, oh man, Like now I got
I gotta make. But you know, when we exited that huddle,
like I believe, like I believe that we were gonna win.
And in sport you always have to have beliefs, even
coming down to the last few seconds. And you know,
I did my part. Nobody was on the ball. You
(44:38):
know Christian, you know, he had to catch it. He
took a dribble, did a little shimmy and scored. And
you know, it's been over thirty years and people still
remember it. People still talk about it, even people who
weren't even born who've seen it on replay over and
over again. So you know, we were kids, man, I
(45:01):
knew we were just trying to win a game. We
didn't understand the historical significance of that moment. And mind you,
people are listening for those who know Christian Laitner was
not the most athletic guy in the world. So he
had to hold off to get the ball. I mean,
he didn't catch it at as hot pointy, but he
did a great job of holding off just to be
able to get the ball. And then obviously it gets
(45:22):
to a chemi mood just able to get that shot
off high enough, and it was just like all net
And I mean it was a confidence shot. It wasn't no,
it wasn't a it wasn't any hesitation at all in
that jump shot in that moment, and I think t Hill,
his his reaction to it was was top five because
(45:43):
I mean, that's why I asked why you and I'm curious.
I would love to ask him. Uh No, T Lange,
my bad, wasn't he? I think it. T Lange was
on the corporate T Hill was the one that they captured.
T Hill, That's right. So I just seeing you know him,
it's kind of like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe
(46:04):
it because maybe there was doubt or is it just
you know, obviously just amazing that he made I don't know,
just because it's crazy to see everybody's reaction. I mean,
obviously your reaction is like, Okay, I believe he can
make it, but you never know until you actually see it. Yeah,
I mean, you don't know and you know it. You
(46:24):
know to me that that play sort of embodies like
the joy and the heartbreak of sport and competition, and
you know, you just you know, you you have these moments,
you have these you know, game winners, you know you
have these you know, you know sports pushes you to
you know, if I'm if I'm if I'm guarding Vince
(46:47):
Carter and I'm really good at defense, I'm going to
force you to do something incredible. You know, I'm going
to force you to do something that you have in you,
but you need someone to almost push you to ring
out of you, you know, and and so like moments
like that, like you know, it could be Derek Wittenberg
(47:07):
and the alley to Lorenzo Charles against Houston. You know,
it could be you know, Michael Jordan hitting that shot
against Georgetown in nineteen eighty two, Like like you need
competition and you need like to be pushed by greatness.
Greatness brings greatness out of you. And and and so
that to me is sort of a moment of one
the heartbreak here Kentucky thinks that they have the game won,
(47:28):
but also you know, doing the unthinkable, and and and
and you know, so yeah, I mean it was I
mean I didn't, like I said, I didn't understand it
when it happened. We were just in the moment. But yeah,
and then we I don't think we hadn't seen anything
like that. I mean I can't recall throwing the ball
the link. I think we've seen example since then, Bryce
(47:49):
Drew and others, But like I don't recall like, you know,
throwing the ball the link to the court two seconds
and like what's what's on the line is is it
trip to the Final four? And so there was disbelief,
Like I was in this. I told you I was
thinking about going to Beach Week, going to Dirty Myrtle.
(48:10):
You know, it's I heard that. Look, you guys were
(48:32):
able to be a very good un l V team
that you know, we're rock stars, you know if you
would And you know, what was that like the leading
up to the game. Obviously, you guys are duke, you know,
they're them Like I know, coming out, I'm sure what
was said, it's like, let's go shock the world. But
(48:55):
leading up into that game, were you guys at a
point where you know, it's kind of like every about
playing the Fab five really, you know as well, where
you guys had like, all right, let's go, let's go
upset the world because nobody believes in us right now.
You know, that's a great question. I mean, the feeling
that we had against Vegas in ninety one was different
(49:18):
than the feeling we had against the Fab five the
year later. But I'll get to that. So one of
the things that Vegas team, who was so dominant, they
had everybody back from I think everybody back from that
championship in ninety where they you know, they it was
the worst, you know, most lopsided win in NCAA Finals history.
(49:41):
And you know, we lost three seniors from that team,
I'll the Nabby, Robert Brickey, Phil Henderson. And so we
got better through the season. You know, we actually won
the regular season of the ACC. We got smacked by
you guys Carolina and the ACC finals, like y'all beat
us by like twenty t twenty five. But we kind
(50:02):
of found our rhythm and our peak. We started peaking
in the tournament, and you know, we had Vegas, you know,
in the semi final, and unlike the year before where
we only really had one day to prepare, we had
a whole week to prepare. And you know, coach like,
(50:22):
Vegas was dominant, like they were people thought UNLV could
beat NBA teams, like that's how dominant they were. They
were beating everybody. You know, you think you think Yukon
was dominant, which they were. Vegas not only destroyed everybody
by twenty or more, they destroyed everybody in the regular
season by twenty or more. I mean, they were that
dominant of a team. And so first of all, what
(50:44):
we did was we watched the game from the year before,
and we watched it, and we saw that and like
we didn't want to run from it, like we wanted
to own it. Although I wasn't on that team, but
we watched it. So you're sitting there like, oh, man,
I could have Yeah, well, I mean, and so you know,
are guys returning guys, Bobby Hurley, Christian Ladener, like they
(51:06):
were older, they were better. At this point, I was
there too. I mean, I played power forward, but I
was also the backup point guard. So we had another ballhand,
We had another pressure release, you know, against their pressure,
and that you know, I think was somewhat helpful as well.
And then you know, we just coach build us up.
You know. We talked about how we had been in
(51:27):
close games all season, you know, we had won them,
we had lost them. We practiced in the game situations
all season. Vegas had never been in a close game,
you know, and so our thing was just keep it close.
Let's keep it close because the pressure is on them.
And then we even did stuff where we scrimmaged five
against seven, you know, to get used to just their
(51:51):
speed and their athleticism. And you know, I actually think
we were not too far off in terms of athletic
It was a different team that year. We were pretty
athletic ourselves, but like we practice against seven people on defense,
and you know, going into it, we were confident, you know.
And it's a funny story. I'll tell this story, man,
(52:13):
and hopefully it won't be too long. But we get
to Indianapolis, you know, we do all this stuff Thursday,
we practice. Friday, we're staying at a holiday in hotel.
You know, all the duke people parents are there, and
so me and Tony Lang and Brian Davis and one
of our managers go to a we go to the
(52:35):
whole team goes to a mall. We go somewhere. We
had a couple of hours and they had this karaoke
booth or this karaoke store, and you go into a
recording booth and you sing a song and then you
could go record the video. So we go. We go
in there and we do temptations and we do you know,
(52:57):
Prince nineteen ninety nine. They didn't have a great you
know selection, so we those are all great songs, but
those right, so yeah, so we can't really sing and
we're in there singing and then we make a video
and they give us this tap the VCR tapes. So
we come back to the hotel this the night before
the game, and Tony Lang's dad he would bring his
(53:20):
VCR on the road and he would set it up.
He had his VCR his toolkit toolbox, and he would
set the VCR up and have it record the game,
and then all the parents would go back to their
room and watch the game after the game. You know,
this is before obviously technology and all that. So we
come back with the tapes and we're putting the tapes
in to show our parents and everybody. Everybody's in there,
(53:43):
and we're laughing, and the parents are looking around like
or they gonna get their ass kicked tomorrow. Like literally,
our parents are looking at it like like my mom
and dad told me after the fact, they're like, oh,
we just knew y'all were gonna lose. Like y'all out
here making videos and you know, I guess it's the
equivalent of TikTok and all that other stuff. But we're
making we're singing and making videos and all that. But
(54:06):
there was like there was a confidence, like we were
confident and we believed in Coach k and right away
we came out and we kind of punched them early
and we just showed them that you know, this is
a different year, this is a different team, and you know,
things kind of went our way. We made the right
place and we were fortunate to win. But really the job,
(54:28):
the job was in the preparation and that happened all
throughout the week leading up to the final four. So
what was the difference between that one and Fab five?
So great question. So when we beat Vegas, it was
almost like we arrived, you know, we were like it
was like it gave us Like it was almost like
(54:50):
it was like Tamiyak verse Show Enough and the Last
Dragon where you get the glow like you know, like
you know what I'm saying, Like it's like or like
when Luke's skty Walker all of a sudden, like you know,
Yoda has been working with him and then all of
a sudden he's a Jedi. Like it was just like
instantly like oh, we've arrived and we know what it takes.
(55:11):
And we beat Kansas the next day or two days
later for the championship and came back the next year
and we were pretty dominant. We came back and another thing.
This is another great moment. So the Kansas Carolina game happened,
and this is when when Dean Smith like got thrown out,
which is horrible that like the ref would throw Dee
(55:33):
Smith out like it was. But so we're in the
hallway and we're getting loose while their game is ending,
and then Kansas wins and coach brings us back in
the locker room and basically says, like, don't rationalize that
Carolina walls because you know, the rivalry between Duke and Carolina,
(55:55):
because both schools are in close proximity to one another,
the rivalry, like it's almost like we can't let Carolina
outd Us, I'll do us, well, we can't, you know
what I'm saying, Like, like you could win a championship,
but you lose the Carolina three times during the regular
during the season, it's almost like it evens out. You know,
it's crazy as that me and so it was almost
(56:17):
so it was almost like Coach k was like, don't
build an excuse to lose because it's okay because Carolina lost,
and which was an interesting moment. And Uh, anyway, but
to your question, so the next year we came back,
we were dominant. We were cocky. We went up to
(56:38):
Michigan in December and it was before exam week and
it was before they were officially the Fab five. I
think Jalen and Chris and Juwan were starting and Jimmy
and Ray were still coming off the bench, and you know,
we didn't really we didn't respect them. Like, we didn't
think they were going to be as good as they were.
(56:58):
I knew Chris or they're not ready yet. Yeah, we
didn't think they were ready and they hadn't really played
anybody of serious, you know, competition, So we kind of
came out with a lazy fair attitude. No, and it's
not not making an excuse, but like we didn't come
like with our a game and they and they brought
it and and and they almost beat us, and you know,
(57:21):
we got you know, we had a we had a
missed missshot. I got the rebound, tipped it out to Bobby.
Bobby goes up for a three. This is like with
ten seconds left and we're down three, and Weber runs
right through Bobby and you know, he goes to the line.
So we go to overtime. Chris filed out and we
(57:43):
went and so we knew that if we saw them again,
like we're gonna, we're gonna we're gonna have the appropriate fear,
as Greg Papovitch was. We didn't say that then, but
we we knew like, okay, we'll be ready, and you know,
and so when we saw them again in the finals,
they are obviously had improved. They were the Fab five now.
They had an incredible run. But and this may sound crazy,
(58:07):
it may sound cocky, like we knew we were gonna win.
We knew we were gonna win, and we did, and
we were ultimately pulled away in one by twenty. But
we were the Vegas now, you know, we were the
team that everybody was gunning for, and so we knew
what it was like the year before, and and really
(58:27):
that that game was an eye opener for us. It was.
It was a good game to have as we were
about to start the ACC regular season. That you can't
overlook anyone just because you're back, you know, defending champions.
You got to still come out and play. And now
we ended up losing to Carolina that year at Carolina.
(58:48):
We were sixteen seventeen to zero going into that game
and we lost at at Carolina dang, but we stayed baking,
breaking streets, don't we. Yeah, no, us you
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