October 27, 2024 • 50 mins
In this one-on-one conversation with Katie, Gwen Walz opens up about bringing storytelling, shared values, and listening back to political conversations. Drawing on her background as a teacher, she reflects on confronting Trump’s bullying and explains how empathy and authenticity shape her vision for the campaign and her connections with voters.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.
Gwen Walls is about as wholesome as you can get,
and their romance really is straight out of Friday Night Lights.
So here she is talking about her experiences on the
campaign trail and as a wife and mother. So take
(00:26):
a listen. I think you'll really learn a lot about
her and I'm going to try my hardest to get
her great grandmother's ginger snap recipe. Stay tuned. First of all,
it is so nice to meet you. I'm assuming it's
okay if I call you Gwen. Please call me Gwen, yes, please, Well,
thank you for talking to us on this Saturday morning.
(00:49):
And I imagine the last few months for you, Gwen,
have brought new meaning to the word whirlwind. How would
you describe what you've been going through through?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, let me say again, thank you for having me,
And maybe the last few months can be kind.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Of crystallized in this.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Moment, because I never imagined I would be on a
podcast or an interview or any sort of thing with
Katie Curic. So that's kind of what it's like. You know,
it was it was a fast process, and you know,
we were we were busy with our lives being governor
(01:33):
and first lady in Minnesota and our kids, and you know,
I would have been door knocking and uh calling and
working on elections in Minnesota and also governors races. And
so when we got this call, we say it was
a it was a different call, but I wasn't even home,
and so I was speaking of all the superintendents in
(01:55):
Minnesota getting ready for the start of school.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
And we said, you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Know, my mom has to sink when you have to
do the work that's in front of you. And so
when that became the work in front of us, we
shifted into gear. But I you know, I'm telling you
the truth on this. It is it is a new
experience and fantastic in so many ways, like that I'm
in Michigan right now and getting to see these amazing
(02:23):
places and meet people across the country, which is all
very exciting and learning and listening. But it you know,
there are challenges that come with it too, like some
people say not very nice things or things that aren't true.
And I'm traveling a lot more and it's, you know, Gus,
the senior year, so I have to balance like the
(02:44):
homecoming stuff with the political stuff and figuring that out
is what every mom in America is doing. It's just
maybe on a bit of a different scale. But I
also have a great staff and great friends and a
fantastic family of three sisters, and they are all super helpful.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I'm sure your schedule, Gwinn has been absolutely bonkers. I mean,
all the candidates are in full gear as we are
in the home stretch of this election. What kinds of
things are you hearing out on the campaign trail, because
I know you've been going to blue areas and to
red areas. Are you noticing a big difference in people's
(03:28):
concerns and those two different parts of the country.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well, I think you know.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'm a teacher and a school administrator and director, and
so the power of listening is survival those in those environments,
and it is too out on the trail, and it's
a privilege for people to tell you their stories and
(03:55):
tell you their concerns. And interestingly, we all have very
similar concerns and there are people who might approach those
concerns differently. But where Tim and I taught and lived
for twenty two years in man Cato in the first
Congressional District, that was a district that was really more
(04:17):
Republican than Democrat, and Tim won that race six times.
I say, we won that race six times. And we're
used to working with and being around people who might
not see every single issue exactly the way that you
see it. But finding a way forward is important. So
(04:37):
the conversations I'm getting to have and getting to listen
to and participate in are what's the way forward here.
I mean, there are some people who protest who aren't
really ready to listen, but I find that occurring less
than people who might just have a different perspective. And
let's face it, in this election, it's the most important
(04:59):
election of our lifetime. I know we say that maybe easily,
but I think everyone would agree with that right now.
And where I start is I ask people to tell
me a little bit about their story.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
And I like that.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
As an English teacher, I think stories are most important,
and I try to share a bit of my stories
in my remarks that I'm giving or when I'm answering
a question, because I think in our stories we identify
what we value. And what I still see across this
country is that we value the same things we value democracy,
(05:31):
we value reproductive freedom. We value children in schools and
food and housing and how we get there. We may
not see it the same way, but that's the dialogue
we have to get back to. So I encourage people
when they're door knocking or phone calling or campaigning to
(05:52):
tell their stories, and let's work on finding some of
those commonalities.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
You know. And I'm again.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Going to be very real, I'm not going to find
commonalities with what I feel is bullying by some of
the things mister Trump says and does, and mister Vance
says and does. I'm not talking about I'm not talking
about that kind of behavior. I'm talking about real, legitimate
(06:21):
conversation and storytelling, even with passionate passionate fire that we
might have, but not bullying.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Let me ask you quickly about meeting your husband. I
know you were both school teachers. You were teaching English,
he was a coach and a social studies teacher. This
was an alliance Nebraska. Tell me about your impressions of
him when you all first met, Well, when he was.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
First in alliance, he started the middle school and I
was at the high school, so I didn't know at
that very at the very at that very moment, But
I knew who he was because we were both in
the in the gym and there was an upper gym
in a lower gym, and he was helping with a
basketball program, and at that point I was coaching the
(07:08):
cheerleaders and so I was in the upper gym and
he was in the lower gym. So you know, I
would see him on occasion, but I like had things
to do because I was doing the speech and debate
stuff too, and teaching English and the church choir and
teaching piano lessons.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Wow, and you were busy.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I know, I know, but you know, when you're twenty two,
twenty three, twenty four, like you can do all those things.
And I was trying to pay my student loans off also,
so I was taking advantage of all those things. So
I wasn't sure. But my sister came out and stayed
with me during January term and she saw him teach
and she said to me, Gwenn, do you know Tim Walls?
(07:48):
And I said, I think I know who he is.
I think he's you know that guy, and blah blah blah,
And she said, I saw him teach, and I'm going
to tell you he's the best teacher I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And I was like, wow, really, and she's like, yeah,
I would.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I think you should meet him. She even made some
like predictions. And then it was a little while later
but that we met. But we actually then when he came.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
To high school.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Because we were school a school that was short on
space and short on money, they took the choir room,
the old choir room, and they put a divider right
down the middle. And this divider was not a fit divider.
But he taught on one side and I taught on
the other. And so that that was a way to
get to know one another. And yeah, and and so
(08:37):
we did.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
And you know, he asked to marry you. I understand,
Gwen on your first date. Is that true? Well, he said,
I'm going to marry you.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Because he asked if he could kiss me good night
and I said no, that I don't ever kiss on
a first aid. English teachers have policies and you know,
I don't have to think about these things. And he
like looked at me and in a way like aren't
you in your mid twenties and this is your policy?
And I'm you know, safety first, So yeah, it was,
(09:08):
it was my policy. So he looked at me, like really,
and then he said, well, all right then, because I'm
going to marry you.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Now get out of my car. So fun, Yeah, isn't it?
I mean? And I like looked at him, and then
he didn't call me for three days. Oh wow, I
hate that. But I finally did and you did get married.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, and we did and yeah, and you know, sharing
that classroom with him, and what I saw from is
coaching too, is I knew that we shared a vision
of how we saw school and how we saw education,
and we both chose that career, like we both come
from families of educators, but we both chose that career
(09:52):
because we love it right, and we believe in education,
and we thought it was how we contributed most to
the future. And I still say, the most fun days
are days you're in schools, and the most hopeful days
are days you're in schools because you get to be
with those kids and here here those students and those
(10:15):
voices and that vision.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You know, and like, it's not easy. It is not easy.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I was high school English, eleventh and twelfth grade, and
you learn very quickly, like there is you are not cool.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
But what was your favorite book?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
To teach Gwen, Oh, so I can.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I it's a play yeah, sure, our Town that's playing
here in New York on Broadway right now.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I know, you know, because it keeps coming back. I
love that play too.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
It's it's amazing, right because when you think about it,
and there's a there's a line near the end of
the play that you know, they talk about like cups
of coffee and and and how the usual things in
life are really really special, right, and how you don't
(11:12):
recognize how beautiful they are during your life. And I
think that's such an important message and lesson, you know,
because everyone thinks they want to have this spectacular, you know,
kind of life, even with social media stuff and everything,
and really it's like saying hi to your neighbor and
planting new flowers in the garden and having a cup
(11:33):
of coffee and getting to meet new people, And you know,
aren't those the most wonderful things in all of our lives?
And do we take time to recognize how very beautiful
they are?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And I think that's such a challenge for all of us.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And that was a fun thing to talk about with students,
and I actually would start my class with that because
I wanted all the voices in the.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Room, you know, or to have a chance to have
the voices. And so I like that I can talk about.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
American literature for a long time because one of the
things that I really emphasized was when I started teaching
that were just a lot of old white men in
the curriculum. And one of the things I was able
to do throughout my entire career was to bring actually
what American literature is, you know, beginning with Native voices
and you know, Frederick Douglas and women and modern writers
(12:27):
and all of that, and so that was really exciting,
and you got to talk about challenges in our country
and equity and why weren't these pieces in a textbook
and what might we learn from them? So anyway, I know,
I'm supposed to be winning the race here, Cannity.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
That's okay. I love talking about this too.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And apparently in the latest production of Our Town on
Broadway they pump in the Smell of Bacon, which sounds
really fun and I'm really anxious to see it because
I love that play too. It always makes me cry
and I just it's such a moving play. Thornton Wilder
and just love it. But anyway, let's get back to politics,
(13:08):
so we talk about literature. You know, it's interesting how
you say, throughout your career you've really made an effort
to make the curriculum more inclusive and more representative. I
think that's something that many Americans seem, for whatever reason,
to be rejecting right now, this idea of more inclusion
(13:29):
representation kind of under the guise of being woke. And
I'm curious if you've encountered that and how you express
your views that help people understand why these things have
been important to you and maybe important to the country.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You know, there's no reason to have fear, but sometimes
we just we just do when we don't know the future.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Different is not wrong. Different is just different.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And so I would always say to my students at
the beginning of the year, some people said, you have
to earn my respect, right, And I never approached it
like that. I always said, you have my respect, and
I hope I have yours, and let's just work on
keeping it that way.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
That when you have that base of respect, then the
reason that you talk about including other voices saying American
literature is because they're part of the story, right, They're
part of our story in our history. And you know, facts,
facts are facts, and we can talk about those in
(14:47):
lots of different contexts, and we can talk about those
and in our own stories and what that means.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
And when you speak to values like values of.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Freedom, or values democracy right, or values like making your
own choice about your own body, most people do not
disagree on values and and so that's always the way
that I've approached it. There have been, you know, people
who disagree, and I respect their ability to disagree, but
(15:22):
we have to think about being more inclusive or we're
not going to close gaps.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
And we are not.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
You know, we are working toward a more perfect union here,
and there's a lot of work to be done, and
we need all voices in that. You can't have a
more perfect union if if you only tell part of
the story.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
If you want to get smarter every morning with a
breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,
Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Gwen,
(16:17):
I was curious about what you're hearing on the subject
of reproductive freedom. You mentioned it earlier that has become
a central issue in this race. And you have been
very open along with your husband about your infertility journey,
and I know it's something that you kept very private
(16:38):
for a number of years. How hard has that been
to talk about and why did you feel it was
important to be open about your own experiences?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Thanks? Thanks for that question.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It is very hard to talk about it. It's we
have been in the political light for you know, a
long time now, and even as teachers, you're kind of
public figures. But I'm a private person and so that
felt really private to me and Tim and I didn't
(17:12):
share that for you know, almost eighteen years and longer
if you count, you know, if you count our journey
to have hope, And we didn't talk about it because
it was a painful and private process that we went
through and kind of sharing it at that time made
it more painful, or we thought it would, and so
(17:35):
we didn't and that was just part of you know, what,
who we were, and that felt like enough. But then
when the Alabama Supreme Court decision came down, we said, no,
we have a responsibility in our current leadership positions to
talk about this because we cannot possibly have people denied
(17:58):
the right to make their own choices about their own families,
to have someone else like Donald Trump or Jadvance determine if,
when or how they're going to have a family, and like, no,
we have to we have to tell our story. And
Tim felt exactly the same way, and so we did
almost immediately tell it once that decision came down, and
(18:23):
I decided that on the campaign trail it would be
something that we would talk about because if you do
not have freedom over your own body, whatever you might
believe about abortion or anything, if you do not have
the right to make decisions about your own body, what
other freedoms do you really have? I feel it's so foundational,
(18:47):
so fundamental, and I feel like it's part of an agenda.
You know, Donald Trump has said some things like he's
going to be the protector of women. No, thank you
very much, Donald Trump. I'm not interested in that, and
I don't think many women are. And that is a
paternalistic sort of degrading idea to me, and that files
(19:13):
right along with the attitude about reproductive freedom. And we
are facing a national abortion band here, and we are
facing real consequences here if we do not vote. I
feel like it's for freedom and equality for women. And
I wonder in my generation, like, have I done enough?
(19:36):
So I wasn't going to make that mistake again. I'm
doing everything I can right now, and I'm fighting for
my daughter and for her friends and for people we
don't even know because it's that important. But I'm not
going to have the legacy in my generation be that
we lost the rights for women to have autonomy over
(19:58):
our own body.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Kinds of things are you hearing from voters out on
the trail when this subject comes up?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I tell Katie, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Every time I tell this story, which is a lot,
sometimes three and four times a day, depending on how
many events or the particular events, there are women and
men who come to the ropeline or wait for me
afterwards and tell me their stories or their journey or
the journey of someone in their family or someone that
(20:31):
they know. And these are painful and horrific stories. And
I have to tell you, I'm angry that people have
to tell their stories that clearly it's hard for them
to tell, or even as I said, hard for me
to tell, but we have to tell them, and they
feel they have to tell them. I am so grateful
(20:55):
for people sharing their stories and sharing that with me.
But it's heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking that we are having
this conversation or having to have this conversation right now.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
But I'm also grateful.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
For the generosity of people who are willing to share
this and are clearly fighting for it and are clearly
engaged in this election because of this issue in what
it means and if there's such a stark contrast between
Kamal and Tim Right who trust women, and Jade Vance
(21:33):
and Donald Trump, who clearly do not. And if there's
one single thing for women and I think for men
who are smart to vote on, it's this issue.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'm curious how you feel about this gender gap that
has submerged during the course of this election, with women
overwhelmingly supporting the Harris Walls ticket, but men actually overwhelmingly
or sertainly by a pretty significant margin, supporting Donald Trump
(22:05):
and jd Vance. What do you make of that? Because
I think most people would see your husband as a
as a guy's guy. Oh not that he not that
he doesn't support women, But how do you explain this
big divide?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's it's it's worth thinking about and worth talking about.
But I will tell you we are not giving up
on anyone. And so I see this divide as lessening.
I'm not I'm not a Polster, or at least this moment,
I'm not a polster. So so I know we see
(22:44):
some things that that may say differently, and maybe when
this race is over, maybe it will still look that way.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
But I still think there.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Is time, and I think we cannot we cannot give
up on making this issue relevant, or any issue really,
but specifically reproductive freedom relevant to young men and all men,
and telling our stories and sharing those values. We aren't
giving up on that, and I think we just have
(23:15):
to continue to do that. I also think that fear
is a short term motivator, and there are ads and
things out there about about the fear right, the fear
factor that are appealing directly toward men.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
But the democracy is not like a pie, you.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Know, where there are just so many slices and only
a few people get a slice of the pie. That's
not democracy. There is enough for everyone, and there is
a place for everyone in this democracy. And so that
motivator of fear, that discussion around what you know might
what you might.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Lose or or.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Whatever, what ever is that appeals to that sense. We
have to have better and more conversations. And I would
encourage every woman who's listening to this to find three people,
maybe even three men, and tell your story and talk
about your values. And I bet you we are going
(24:20):
to see those smart men come right along, right along
with us. You can be a man's man and still
understand what we are fighting for here and the freedom
we're fighting for and a hopeful vision, a hopeful vision,
and Katie, we're not going back.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Glenn, I'm curious what role you think sexism might be
playing in this campaign. There's been a lot written about
Kamala Harris Downplane, sort of her gender or her race.
Out on the campaign trail. You don't hear her talk
about that much about being the first woman president, and
yet it seems like they're are some people who don't
(25:01):
even recognize their implicit bias against a female leader. How
do you respond to that and have you seen much
of that out campaigning?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Well?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean, I think for women that there is a
there is a reality, right that we have dealt with
in board rooms, administrative rooms, teachers rooms, that that that
has been embedded to a degree in our culture, and
we are we are taking that on and we must
(25:34):
we must take that on, and we must have powerful
conversations about that. I I am hopeful that the vision
that Tim and Kamala put forward, which you know, is
about our way forward right, a new way forward, gives
people an opportunity to make the decisions again about the
(25:57):
issues and values that they care about. They are speaking
to the middle class, they are speaking to reproductive freedom,
they are speaking to kitchen table issues.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
There they are speaking about strength.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And I think if you have any dissatisfaction with this country,
Tim and Kamala are also your way forward, right because
they are a new way forward. And I think women collaborate,
they have strong conversations. We are strong and mighty, and
we get it done, maybe five things at one time.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
We get done. And I think people need to recognize that.
I won't I won't say that it's not.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Part of the conversation, but it is not really what
I hear, and if and when I do hear that,
I approach that once again by our shared values and
by what's at stake. And I think I think Coma
is one tough prosecutor. I think she is smart, She
(27:00):
is on it and and she can cook dinner, right,
and you see her do it all and I, you know,
in my own role, I won't shy away from any
of it. I bring cookies my great grandmother's recipe. I
bring them to field offices across the country. One weekend,
we made like fifteen hundred of and what kind of cookies?
(27:24):
Ginger snaps? Ginger snaps.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Maybe you'll give us the recipe and we can post it, Okay,
you know I will. I will try to do that.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I know they posted it, and it's like a fundraising thing.
But if you, if you ask for it, I know
they'll give it to you. And I'll try. I'll try
to do that.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
They're they're really good.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And you know, my great grandmother made them for me
as a little girl, and I made them my whole life.
And I serve them at the Minnesota Governor's residence, warm
on winter's nights before people leave. Okay, I do that,
And I can teach our town. And I am as
top his nails in negotiating for teacher contracts and administrative contracts.
(28:05):
So you know what, we are not limited. We are
not limited people, and we are beginning to have a
really important conversation and Kamala can do that times two.
I'm telling you, and smart people recognize that, and Tim
has always recognized that. He said, you know, one of
(28:26):
his signs is what I've done is I've surrounded myself
with a lot of smart women. And that's, you know,
that's a good strategy. But it doesn't mean that he's
less of a man. It doesn't mean that he doesn't
have his own approach in doing things too.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
But we do have the shared values, the shared values
of freedom and democracy, and that's what we're fighting for here,
men and women, So we can't be afraid to have
those conversations.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't think I know you have to leave soon,
but it does have two more questions, Gwen.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
One is Katie, can I say something? Yes, please, can
I say something to you because I've when I heard
that I got to speak with you, I wanted to
tell you this that I was in the classroom on
nine eleven and I it was my prep period and
I always watched your show during my prep period while
(29:18):
I was doing things getting ready for the day, and
so you were on the air right on nine to eleven, right,
And I want to thank you for that because you
don't even know this, but you and I together helped
my students and all the students in our school through
(29:39):
that day because you were on and I was in
my classroom and we had the TV on all day.
And I want to tell you, I've always wanted to
tell you how much that means to me and how
much we did that together, and just thank you. And
those students still I see to this day, and they
(30:01):
remember that experience and they remember you. And Tim and
I met in the staircase because he taught on the
first floor and I taught on the second floor, and
after the planes hit in New York, and we met
on that staircase and we talked about it, and I said,
you have to turn Katie Kirk, you have to turn
an NBC on and he did and our whole school did,
(30:23):
and we had that on throughout the whole day and
we used that as a way to work through that
with students. And Tim had to leave that day because
they were calling National Guard leaders together, and like you
were the touchstone for us on what was happening, and
I just have I've always wanted to thank.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You for that.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
So I had to take a minute to do that
so thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
That means a lot to me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And it was a terrible, terrible day, terrible day, and
yet I feel like the country sort of experienced it
in a united way and came together after that horrible
event in a way that it hadn't and certainly hasn't
for many many years. And I, personally, Gwen, have never
(31:14):
seen the country so divided and so at odds. And
I wanted to ask you about your kids because Gus
was just so awesome at the DNC. He was so
excited seeing his dad up on stage and it was
(31:34):
so moving to me and of course your daughter Hope
as well. But after the DNC there were some hateful
comments made on the right about Gus, and I'm just curious,
as a mom, how you protect your kids from this toxic,
(31:57):
toxic environment we're in.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Politically.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, well, that was so overwhelming, I think for our
whole family. It happened so so quickly, and that room
was so amazing, and seeing Tim take the stage, like,
I still get choked up about that, and Gus just
expressed that, and you know, he just turned eighteen and
(32:27):
I was on the phone with him just before this,
he called me to give me an update on the
cat this morning and to talk about his day. My
sister was staying with us and with him, and so
I was I was talking to him, and you know,
we have we.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Have talked, we've had to talk about.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
He was two weeks old, a little more two and
a half weeks sold when Tim was elected to Congress.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So what he has known is his dad in politics.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
He didn't know his dad in a school, right, so
this has been his reality. And we have we've had
We lived in a district that was more red than
blue when Tim was a congressman, and so we've encountered
these sort of conversations and this this sort of I mean,
this is this is more than we've never accounted. But
(33:15):
it's not it's not a new thing to have people
be more hateful than they need to be. And what
we've always said to our kids, you know, is they're
going to say a lot of things that are very
mean and that are not true. But we know who
we are, and we have a great family around us,
(33:37):
and we have great friends around us, and that just
shows us how we are not going to act. And
you know that that's not true about you, and you
might have a response at times or want to have
a response, but we're not going to do that on
social media. We're not going to do that because we
(33:57):
talked to people face to face and we build relationship
together face to face, not across platforms of hate.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
These people usually it's not about you.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
It's about something in their own lives that they're unhappy
with and what Dad and I and you and Hope
and Gus are working towards. That's part of service right now,
and we have to do everything we can to try
to change that.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
But we are fortunate to serve.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
We get to live our values and tear our values,
and you know, if we want to cry in the pillow,
we can, and then we have to go on. Even
if you want to say a few words and put
a quarter in the squear jar, Okay, but then we're
going to write, We're going to move on because we
know who we are.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And then, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
There are things because brands are still developing when you're
eighteen and twenty three. But I said, Gus, you know
you have a lot more people who love you, right,
and look at some of the positive comments that you've gotten,
and look at the community who feels that you and
Dad and I are speaking to them and for them,
(35:07):
and how proud they feel of you and all of us.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Talk about that community, Gwenn and what you've heard from
that community.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
That has been amazing that I mean people again come
and share their stories and share their compassion. I have
people have t shirts all over like you know, I'm
voting for Gus's dad, or I love Gus, or you know,
I have hope or you know, all of these really
(35:38):
amazing things, because they're trying to embrace our family too,
and they're trying to encourage those kids. And those are
such good, brave people. I can't thank them enough. And
there are people who you know, with the neuro divergent
and all the all those things, who feel like it's
time to have that conversation and they hope we will.
(35:59):
And I think it's begun a conversation and I'm anxious.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
To continue that.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And then there are really you know, you have to,
like my mom says, do the work in front of you.
You have to use your own time and talents and
expertise whatever they might be. But I do want to
say this on Gus's birthday, which was October thirteenth.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Chris Rock called.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Gush to wish them a happy birthday and to talk about,
you know, to talk about just kind of how special
their superpowers are.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Now, how amazing is that? That? That is no more special?
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Right? I mean, it is special, but it's no more
special than people who are on the ropeline who are
telling me those stories and asking us to have a
national conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I take that very seriously.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I'm proud of both my kiddos, and I am hopeful
that we are teaching them the responsibility of service and
what they might do for their country when the moment calls,
even if it's something.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
That you little expect.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
So there are benefits definitely to all of it and
to all the stories in to what we're learning, to
conversations that are new that we get to have and
learning that we get to have.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Another thing that critics have seized on were a couple
of occasions when your husband has misremembered things. Yeah, and
I think sort of question his character because of his
recollections or his misstatements of what actually happened. Can you
(37:56):
shed any light on those incidents when people listening or
watching that might explain sort of these incidents that his
opponents have really seized on.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I mean, this is how this is how I see it, right.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I think that when you are a teacher, you are
used to putting things in terms for people to understand,
and Tim is a fabulous communicator, right, And in that effort,
like let's just take the example of when he was
in Tieneman Square, he probably said during the summer of
(38:40):
nineteen eighty nine, and then someone said, well, what part
of the summer, and he would say, well, I don't know.
I think it was probably the first part of the summer.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You know, And so then he'd be like, oh, was
it the first part of the summer. Well, he's not
looking at a calendar.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
From nineteen eighty nine, and in politics, you know, I
don't know if you have to go back through that.
But he was right there in the summer, and frankly,
Tianeman Square looked a lot like it did on June fourth,
nineteen eighty nine, six months later, seven months later, eight
(39:16):
months later, right, there were tanks, there was it was
a militant atmosphere. So I think in an effort to
clarify sometimes he you know, would say a statement and
then people would narrow that, try to narrow it down,
and he would probably try to narrow it down in
his own mind. Tim is an incredibly authentic person and
(39:37):
an incredibly transparent person.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
And I think he tries.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think he tries to answer the question, and like
in a debate, that can be your first mistake trying
to answer the question right instead of just trying to
get your talking points out there. But he's authentic about
that and authentic about communication. And does he get details wrong? Yes,
there are times, you know, there are times when he says,
you know, like I bought a new golf club when
(40:10):
and I'll say, okay, so like how much how much
money was that?
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Or what to take out of the checking account, you know,
and he rounds and like that rounding air.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
That might not be exactly what it is, Katie, but
it's in the spirit of it, right, And that's just
who he is.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
The important thing is he bought a new.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Golf book, right, and and there's money coming out of
the checking account because we're very much a middle class family,
so we have to keep track of all kinds of
all kinds of things like that. And that's how I
see it. What you see is what you get with Tim.
I'm incredibly proud of him. I also am. You know,
like we work together, We are a partnership. We have
(40:50):
been from day one, and I you know, I know
his strengths and I know the things that we're still
working on, just like he knows my st and he
knows the things I'm still working on. You are getting
a teacher, a football coach, an incredibly smart man, a
retired military veteran. But what he cares about and what
(41:13):
he's always cared about, are people. And he has always
tried to serve and make the difference that he can
for people. And that's what he and Kamala have in common.
And they knew it the first moment that they spoke,
the first moment that they met. And I knew it
the first time. I was on the bus with Kamala
(41:33):
and Doug and Tim and I and we all said,
how do you run races? You run them like you're
ten points down and they like set it in unison
And that's the only text we all share with each other,
ten points down, because that's how hard every one of
us is working every single day in different directions.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Gwen, I know that it must be hard because, of
course you've been married to Tim for a long time,
you have kids with him, and I think in a
campaign sometimes people, you know, they make these assumptions about people,
and I think you've probably witnessed that happening with your husband.
(42:15):
He's been criticized by the right for things like supporting
gender affirming care, signing a law that mandates free minstration
products in public school restrooms. Some people have called him
tampon Tim, and I think they've painted a portrait of
an uber liberal guy. And you know, they talk about
(42:37):
the school lunches and school breakfasts, which I don't know
how you can actually criticize that, but I'm curious how
you would describe kind of his overall philosophy and political
philosophy when it comes to issues like that.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I think Tim and I have always thought about removing
barriers to learning success us and whatever that barrier is,
whether it be free lunch, orminstruation products, or knowing who
you are. Everyone means everyone, and some things look different
for some people. People have different needs and they have
(43:15):
different resources. But everyone means everyone and all of us,
and so that is not that is not an unmessy journey,
right but we have looked at it like what do.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
You need to move forward?
Speaker 2 (43:33):
What do you need to be happy and healthy and
have success? And how might we most effectively and best
help with that? And then mind your own damn business, right,
then get out of the way, because and I think
that those two pieces probably described him. He's compassionate, he's empathetic.
(43:59):
He removes barriers. You know, if kids are hungry in school,
what that does to brain and learning, You're not going
to learn to read. So if you're talking about learning
to read and closing gaps, then you better take away
the barriers for that. If that's tampons, then that's tampon, right,
take away the barriers, and let's get to the real
work of this, not get lost in what are you know,
(44:22):
what our components? And and as some people would say,
you know, egling the playing field or whatever it might be.
I think he does a great job of that. But
I also think, you know, then he's like, whose business
is that? Like, mind it yourself? Now I have to
put a quarter in this square jar, but but mind it,
(44:44):
mind it yourself, Like, let's let's just get on about
the real important issues that we have to solve, not
get caught up.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
In people's own personal uh business. Let's just provide what
we need to provide. You know, we see atquity as getting.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
People what they need to get to a specific place
where we can have that conversation.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I've heard you've gotten advice from both the second Gentleman
Doug m Hoff and first Lady Jill Biden. I'm curious
what they've told you that you have found particularly useful.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Oh, Gosh, okay.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
So you know, as a teacher and a learner, good
teachers are good learners, and I strive to be a
good teacher.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
So I hope I'm a good learner.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I take advice and seek resources from everybody that I
can in order to do the best job I can.
I'm taking this very I mean ultra seriously, right like
I I'm honored to be able to be in this position,
and I want to do it as the best I can.
(45:49):
So Doug m Hoff called me right away and continues
to call me. And you know, he and Gosh share
a birthday, so that was a kind of a fun
celebration with every on. And he is such an amazing
person and how he models support for his wife and
(46:10):
empowers women and empowers me. Is really miraculous. So he is,
you know, I have good sense of humor about things.
Has also said ask for what you need, you know,
ask for what you need. Be determined in what you're doing,
and you know, let us know, but take time for
(46:32):
yourself too. And so I mean all and lots of
other things, but really good perspective, right, And since he's
done this and recently and still doing it right and
they are the top of the ticket, that's super helpful
and empowering advice. And you know, he was great with
our children right away and like said, here's my cell
(46:53):
phone number, let me know if you need anything. I'm like, okay, kids,
do not text that man. He is very busy, you know.
Guss is like, I think I'm a text Doug and
have some I'm like, wait, hang on, you know, and
he's like, no, he said it good and like he
means it. But I know, so he I. Relationships are important,
(47:15):
and I and doctor Biden. When Tim was elected to Congress,
Joe Biden and doctor Biden were in the Senate and
so we knew them from from Congress. And like, Joe
Biden and I were too functioning educators, right, at that time.
So on in different places and different times, we are
(47:35):
like the ones correcting papers. And so that was and
if that was an affinity that we shared. And she
came to Augsburg University where I teach one class during
the last election cycle, and we did an event together
in the courtyard at the university.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
And and you know, she's a trailblazer right in her
own way.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And she's a good teacher and a good mom.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Right and just.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
She's just such a good perspective. And she is this
determined and strong of a person as I've as I've
ever met. And I get to campaign with her coming up,
and I'm so looking forward to that. And so she
balances all all of it, and you know, like in
(48:27):
in high heels, she balances it. You know that Freda
is thing like Ginger Rogers did it all in backwards.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
That's always talk about doctor Biden.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
And she also is always available to me, good days,
bad days, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
She does not.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
When she's your friend and supporter, she really means it.
And that is good to remember because when you're on
this campaign journey to still keep and value all of
those relationships that are so important to you and find
a way to do that.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
She's given me good advice on that.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Well, Gwyn Walls, I know you have a very busy
day ahead. I can't tell you how much we appreciate
you taking all this time to allow us to get
to know you a little bit better and to listen
to your story and hear your values, and we're just
very grateful. So thank you.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
You're the best. Thank you, Thanks for listening. Everyone.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
If you have a question for me, a subject you
want us to cover, or you want to share your
thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world reach out.
You can leave a short message at six oh nine
five one two five five oh five, or you can
send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to
hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia
(50:02):
and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric,
and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and
our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller
composed art theme music. For more information about today's episode,
or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call,
(50:24):
go to the description in the podcast app or visit
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wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.
Gwen Walls is about as wholesome as you can get,
and their romance really is straight out of Friday Night Lights.
So here she is talking about her experiences on the
campaign trail and as a wife and mother. So take
(00:26):
a listen. I think you'll really learn a lot about
her and I'm going to try my hardest to get
her great grandmother's ginger snap recipe. Stay tuned. First of all,
it is so nice to meet you. I'm assuming it's
okay if I call you Gwen. Please call me Gwen, yes, please, Well,
thank you for talking to us on this Saturday morning.
(00:49):
And I imagine the last few months for you, Gwen,
have brought new meaning to the word whirlwind. How would
you describe what you've been going through through?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, let me say again, thank you for having me,
And maybe the last few months can be kind.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Of crystallized in this.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Moment, because I never imagined I would be on a
podcast or an interview or any sort of thing with
Katie Curic. So that's kind of what it's like. You know,
it was it was a fast process, and you know,
we were we were busy with our lives being governor
(01:33):
and first lady in Minnesota and our kids, and you know,
I would have been door knocking and uh calling and
working on elections in Minnesota and also governors races. And
so when we got this call, we say it was
a it was a different call, but I wasn't even home,
and so I was speaking of all the superintendents in
(01:55):
Minnesota getting ready for the start of school.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
And we said, you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Know, my mom has to sink when you have to
do the work that's in front of you. And so
when that became the work in front of us, we
shifted into gear. But I you know, I'm telling you
the truth on this. It is it is a new
experience and fantastic in so many ways, like that I'm
in Michigan right now and getting to see these amazing
(02:23):
places and meet people across the country, which is all
very exciting and learning and listening. But it you know,
there are challenges that come with it too, like some
people say not very nice things or things that aren't true.
And I'm traveling a lot more and it's, you know, Gus,
the senior year, so I have to balance like the
(02:44):
homecoming stuff with the political stuff and figuring that out
is what every mom in America is doing. It's just
maybe on a bit of a different scale. But I
also have a great staff and great friends and a
fantastic family of three sisters, and they are all super helpful.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I'm sure your schedule, Gwinn has been absolutely bonkers. I mean,
all the candidates are in full gear as we are
in the home stretch of this election. What kinds of
things are you hearing out on the campaign trail, because
I know you've been going to blue areas and to
red areas. Are you noticing a big difference in people's
(03:28):
concerns and those two different parts of the country.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well, I think you know.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I'm a teacher and a school administrator and director, and
so the power of listening is survival those in those environments,
and it is too out on the trail, and it's
a privilege for people to tell you their stories and
(03:55):
tell you their concerns. And interestingly, we all have very
similar concerns and there are people who might approach those
concerns differently. But where Tim and I taught and lived
for twenty two years in man Cato in the first
Congressional District, that was a district that was really more
(04:17):
Republican than Democrat, and Tim won that race six times.
I say, we won that race six times. And we're
used to working with and being around people who might
not see every single issue exactly the way that you
see it. But finding a way forward is important. So
(04:37):
the conversations I'm getting to have and getting to listen
to and participate in are what's the way forward here.
I mean, there are some people who protest who aren't
really ready to listen, but I find that occurring less
than people who might just have a different perspective. And
let's face it, in this election, it's the most important
(04:59):
election of our lifetime. I know we say that maybe easily,
but I think everyone would agree with that right now.
And where I start is I ask people to tell
me a little bit about their story.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
And I like that.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
As an English teacher, I think stories are most important,
and I try to share a bit of my stories
in my remarks that I'm giving or when I'm answering
a question, because I think in our stories we identify
what we value. And what I still see across this
country is that we value the same things we value democracy,
(05:31):
we value reproductive freedom. We value children in schools and
food and housing and how we get there. We may
not see it the same way, but that's the dialogue
we have to get back to. So I encourage people
when they're door knocking or phone calling or campaigning to
(05:52):
tell their stories, and let's work on finding some of
those commonalities.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
You know. And I'm again.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Going to be very real, I'm not going to find
commonalities with what I feel is bullying by some of
the things mister Trump says and does, and mister Vance
says and does. I'm not talking about I'm not talking
about that kind of behavior. I'm talking about real, legitimate
(06:21):
conversation and storytelling, even with passionate passionate fire that we
might have, but not bullying.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Let me ask you quickly about meeting your husband. I
know you were both school teachers. You were teaching English,
he was a coach and a social studies teacher. This
was an alliance Nebraska. Tell me about your impressions of
him when you all first met, Well, when he was.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
First in alliance, he started the middle school and I
was at the high school, so I didn't know at
that very at the very at that very moment, But
I knew who he was because we were both in
the in the gym and there was an upper gym
in a lower gym, and he was helping with a
basketball program, and at that point I was coaching the
(07:08):
cheerleaders and so I was in the upper gym and
he was in the lower gym. So you know, I
would see him on occasion, but I like had things
to do because I was doing the speech and debate
stuff too, and teaching English and the church choir and
teaching piano lessons.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Wow, and you were busy.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I know, I know, but you know, when you're twenty two,
twenty three, twenty four, like you can do all those things.
And I was trying to pay my student loans off also,
so I was taking advantage of all those things. So
I wasn't sure. But my sister came out and stayed
with me during January term and she saw him teach
and she said to me, Gwenn, do you know Tim Walls?
(07:48):
And I said, I think I know who he is.
I think he's you know that guy, and blah blah blah,
And she said, I saw him teach, and I'm going
to tell you he's the best teacher I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And I was like, wow, really, and she's like, yeah,
I would.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I think you should meet him. She even made some
like predictions. And then it was a little while later
but that we met. But we actually then when he came.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
To high school.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Because we were school a school that was short on
space and short on money, they took the choir room,
the old choir room, and they put a divider right
down the middle. And this divider was not a fit divider.
But he taught on one side and I taught on
the other. And so that that was a way to
get to know one another. And yeah, and and so
(08:37):
we did.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
And you know, he asked to marry you. I understand,
Gwen on your first date. Is that true? Well, he said,
I'm going to marry you.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Because he asked if he could kiss me good night
and I said no, that I don't ever kiss on
a first aid. English teachers have policies and you know,
I don't have to think about these things. And he
like looked at me and in a way like aren't
you in your mid twenties and this is your policy?
And I'm you know, safety first, So yeah, it was,
(09:08):
it was my policy. So he looked at me, like really,
and then he said, well, all right then, because I'm
going to marry you.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Now get out of my car. So fun, Yeah, isn't it?
I mean? And I like looked at him, and then
he didn't call me for three days. Oh wow, I
hate that. But I finally did and you did get married.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, and we did and yeah, and you know, sharing
that classroom with him, and what I saw from is
coaching too, is I knew that we shared a vision
of how we saw school and how we saw education,
and we both chose that career, like we both come
from families of educators, but we both chose that career
(09:52):
because we love it right, and we believe in education,
and we thought it was how we contributed most to
the future. And I still say, the most fun days
are days you're in schools, and the most hopeful days
are days you're in schools because you get to be
with those kids and here here those students and those
(10:15):
voices and that vision.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You know, and like, it's not easy. It is not easy.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I was high school English, eleventh and twelfth grade, and
you learn very quickly, like there is you are not cool.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
But what was your favorite book?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
To teach Gwen, Oh, so I can.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I it's a play yeah, sure, our Town that's playing
here in New York on Broadway right now.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I know, you know, because it keeps coming back. I
love that play too.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
It's it's amazing, right because when you think about it,
and there's a there's a line near the end of
the play that you know, they talk about like cups
of coffee and and and how the usual things in
life are really really special, right, and how you don't
(11:12):
recognize how beautiful they are during your life. And I
think that's such an important message and lesson, you know,
because everyone thinks they want to have this spectacular, you know,
kind of life, even with social media stuff and everything,
and really it's like saying hi to your neighbor and
planting new flowers in the garden and having a cup
(11:33):
of coffee and getting to meet new people, And you know,
aren't those the most wonderful things in all of our lives?
And do we take time to recognize how very beautiful
they are?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And I think that's such a challenge for all of us.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And that was a fun thing to talk about with students,
and I actually would start my class with that because
I wanted all the voices in the.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Room, you know, or to have a chance to have
the voices. And so I like that I can talk about.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
American literature for a long time because one of the
things that I really emphasized was when I started teaching
that were just a lot of old white men in
the curriculum. And one of the things I was able
to do throughout my entire career was to bring actually
what American literature is, you know, beginning with Native voices
and you know, Frederick Douglas and women and modern writers
(12:27):
and all of that, and so that was really exciting,
and you got to talk about challenges in our country
and equity and why weren't these pieces in a textbook
and what might we learn from them? So anyway, I know,
I'm supposed to be winning the race here, Cannity.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
That's okay. I love talking about this too.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And apparently in the latest production of Our Town on
Broadway they pump in the Smell of Bacon, which sounds
really fun and I'm really anxious to see it because
I love that play too. It always makes me cry
and I just it's such a moving play. Thornton Wilder
and just love it. But anyway, let's get back to politics,
(13:08):
so we talk about literature. You know, it's interesting how
you say, throughout your career you've really made an effort
to make the curriculum more inclusive and more representative. I
think that's something that many Americans seem, for whatever reason,
to be rejecting right now, this idea of more inclusion
(13:29):
representation kind of under the guise of being woke. And
I'm curious if you've encountered that and how you express
your views that help people understand why these things have
been important to you and maybe important to the country.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You know, there's no reason to have fear, but sometimes
we just we just do when we don't know the future.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Different is not wrong. Different is just different.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And so I would always say to my students at
the beginning of the year, some people said, you have
to earn my respect, right, And I never approached it
like that. I always said, you have my respect, and
I hope I have yours, and let's just work on
keeping it that way.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
That when you have that base of respect, then the
reason that you talk about including other voices saying American
literature is because they're part of the story, right, They're
part of our story in our history. And you know, facts,
facts are facts, and we can talk about those in
(14:47):
lots of different contexts, and we can talk about those
and in our own stories and what that means.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
And when you speak to values like values of.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Freedom, or values democracy right, or values like making your
own choice about your own body, most people do not
disagree on values and and so that's always the way
that I've approached it. There have been, you know, people
who disagree, and I respect their ability to disagree, but
(15:22):
we have to think about being more inclusive or we're
not going to close gaps.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
And we are not.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
You know, we are working toward a more perfect union here,
and there's a lot of work to be done, and
we need all voices in that. You can't have a
more perfect union if if you only tell part of
the story.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
If you want to get smarter every morning with a
breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,
Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. Gwen,
(16:17):
I was curious about what you're hearing on the subject
of reproductive freedom. You mentioned it earlier that has become
a central issue in this race. And you have been
very open along with your husband about your infertility journey,
and I know it's something that you kept very private
(16:38):
for a number of years. How hard has that been
to talk about and why did you feel it was
important to be open about your own experiences?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Thanks? Thanks for that question.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It is very hard to talk about it. It's we
have been in the political light for you know, a
long time now, and even as teachers, you're kind of
public figures. But I'm a private person and so that
felt really private to me and Tim and I didn't
(17:12):
share that for you know, almost eighteen years and longer
if you count, you know, if you count our journey
to have hope, And we didn't talk about it because
it was a painful and private process that we went
through and kind of sharing it at that time made
it more painful, or we thought it would, and so
(17:35):
we didn't and that was just part of you know, what,
who we were, and that felt like enough. But then
when the Alabama Supreme Court decision came down, we said, no,
we have a responsibility in our current leadership positions to
talk about this because we cannot possibly have people denied
(17:58):
the right to make their own choices about their own families,
to have someone else like Donald Trump or Jadvance determine if,
when or how they're going to have a family, and like, no,
we have to we have to tell our story. And
Tim felt exactly the same way, and so we did
almost immediately tell it once that decision came down, and
(18:23):
I decided that on the campaign trail it would be
something that we would talk about because if you do
not have freedom over your own body, whatever you might
believe about abortion or anything, if you do not have
the right to make decisions about your own body, what
other freedoms do you really have? I feel it's so foundational,
(18:47):
so fundamental, and I feel like it's part of an agenda.
You know, Donald Trump has said some things like he's
going to be the protector of women. No, thank you
very much, Donald Trump. I'm not interested in that, and
I don't think many women are. And that is a
paternalistic sort of degrading idea to me, and that files
(19:13):
right along with the attitude about reproductive freedom. And we
are facing a national abortion band here, and we are
facing real consequences here if we do not vote. I
feel like it's for freedom and equality for women. And
I wonder in my generation, like, have I done enough?
(19:36):
So I wasn't going to make that mistake again. I'm
doing everything I can right now, and I'm fighting for
my daughter and for her friends and for people we
don't even know because it's that important. But I'm not
going to have the legacy in my generation be that
we lost the rights for women to have autonomy over
(19:58):
our own body.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Kinds of things are you hearing from voters out on
the trail when this subject comes up?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I tell Katie, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Every time I tell this story, which is a lot,
sometimes three and four times a day, depending on how
many events or the particular events, there are women and
men who come to the ropeline or wait for me
afterwards and tell me their stories or their journey or
the journey of someone in their family or someone that
(20:31):
they know. And these are painful and horrific stories. And
I have to tell you, I'm angry that people have
to tell their stories that clearly it's hard for them
to tell, or even as I said, hard for me
to tell, but we have to tell them, and they
feel they have to tell them. I am so grateful
(20:55):
for people sharing their stories and sharing that with me.
But it's heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking that we are having
this conversation or having to have this conversation right now.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
But I'm also grateful.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
For the generosity of people who are willing to share
this and are clearly fighting for it and are clearly
engaged in this election because of this issue in what
it means and if there's such a stark contrast between
Kamal and Tim Right who trust women, and Jade Vance
(21:33):
and Donald Trump, who clearly do not. And if there's
one single thing for women and I think for men
who are smart to vote on, it's this issue.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'm curious how you feel about this gender gap that
has submerged during the course of this election, with women
overwhelmingly supporting the Harris Walls ticket, but men actually overwhelmingly
or sertainly by a pretty significant margin, supporting Donald Trump
(22:05):
and jd Vance. What do you make of that? Because
I think most people would see your husband as a
as a guy's guy. Oh not that he not that
he doesn't support women, But how do you explain this
big divide?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's it's it's worth thinking about and worth talking about.
But I will tell you we are not giving up
on anyone. And so I see this divide as lessening.
I'm not I'm not a Polster, or at least this moment,
I'm not a polster. So so I know we see
(22:44):
some things that that may say differently, and maybe when
this race is over, maybe it will still look that way.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
But I still think there.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Is time, and I think we cannot we cannot give
up on making this issue relevant, or any issue really,
but specifically reproductive freedom relevant to young men and all men,
and telling our stories and sharing those values. We aren't
giving up on that, and I think we just have
(23:15):
to continue to do that. I also think that fear
is a short term motivator, and there are ads and
things out there about about the fear right, the fear
factor that are appealing directly toward men.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
But the democracy is not like a pie, you.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Know, where there are just so many slices and only
a few people get a slice of the pie. That's
not democracy. There is enough for everyone, and there is
a place for everyone in this democracy. And so that
motivator of fear, that discussion around what you know might
what you might.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Lose or or.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Whatever, what ever is that appeals to that sense. We
have to have better and more conversations. And I would
encourage every woman who's listening to this to find three people,
maybe even three men, and tell your story and talk
about your values. And I bet you we are going
(24:20):
to see those smart men come right along, right along
with us. You can be a man's man and still
understand what we are fighting for here and the freedom
we're fighting for and a hopeful vision, a hopeful vision,
and Katie, we're not going back.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Glenn, I'm curious what role you think sexism might be
playing in this campaign. There's been a lot written about
Kamala Harris Downplane, sort of her gender or her race.
Out on the campaign trail. You don't hear her talk
about that much about being the first woman president, and
yet it seems like they're are some people who don't
(25:01):
even recognize their implicit bias against a female leader. How
do you respond to that and have you seen much
of that out campaigning?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Well?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean, I think for women that there is a
there is a reality, right that we have dealt with
in board rooms, administrative rooms, teachers rooms, that that that
has been embedded to a degree in our culture, and
we are we are taking that on and we must
(25:34):
we must take that on, and we must have powerful
conversations about that. I I am hopeful that the vision
that Tim and Kamala put forward, which you know, is
about our way forward right, a new way forward, gives
people an opportunity to make the decisions again about the
(25:57):
issues and values that they care about. They are speaking
to the middle class, they are speaking to reproductive freedom,
they are speaking to kitchen table issues.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
There they are speaking about strength.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And I think if you have any dissatisfaction with this country,
Tim and Kamala are also your way forward, right because
they are a new way forward. And I think women collaborate,
they have strong conversations. We are strong and mighty, and
we get it done, maybe five things at one time.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
We get done. And I think people need to recognize that.
I won't I won't say that it's not.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Part of the conversation, but it is not really what
I hear, and if and when I do hear that,
I approach that once again by our shared values and
by what's at stake. And I think I think Coma
is one tough prosecutor. I think she is smart, She
(27:00):
is on it and and she can cook dinner, right,
and you see her do it all and I, you know,
in my own role, I won't shy away from any
of it. I bring cookies my great grandmother's recipe. I
bring them to field offices across the country. One weekend,
we made like fifteen hundred of and what kind of cookies?
(27:24):
Ginger snaps? Ginger snaps.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Maybe you'll give us the recipe and we can post it, Okay,
you know I will. I will try to do that.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I know they posted it, and it's like a fundraising thing.
But if you, if you ask for it, I know
they'll give it to you. And I'll try. I'll try
to do that.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
They're they're really good.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And you know, my great grandmother made them for me
as a little girl, and I made them my whole life.
And I serve them at the Minnesota Governor's residence, warm
on winter's nights before people leave. Okay, I do that,
And I can teach our town. And I am as
top his nails in negotiating for teacher contracts and administrative contracts.
(28:05):
So you know what, we are not limited. We are
not limited people, and we are beginning to have a
really important conversation and Kamala can do that times two.
I'm telling you, and smart people recognize that, and Tim
has always recognized that. He said, you know, one of
(28:26):
his signs is what I've done is I've surrounded myself
with a lot of smart women. And that's, you know,
that's a good strategy. But it doesn't mean that he's
less of a man. It doesn't mean that he doesn't
have his own approach in doing things too.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
But we do have the shared values, the shared values
of freedom and democracy, and that's what we're fighting for here,
men and women, So we can't be afraid to have
those conversations.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't think I know you have to leave soon,
but it does have two more questions, Gwen.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
One is Katie, can I say something? Yes, please, can
I say something to you because I've when I heard
that I got to speak with you, I wanted to
tell you this that I was in the classroom on
nine eleven and I it was my prep period and
I always watched your show during my prep period while
(29:18):
I was doing things getting ready for the day, and
so you were on the air right on nine to eleven, right,
And I want to thank you for that because you
don't even know this, but you and I together helped
my students and all the students in our school through
(29:39):
that day because you were on and I was in
my classroom and we had the TV on all day.
And I want to tell you, I've always wanted to
tell you how much that means to me and how
much we did that together, and just thank you. And
those students still I see to this day, and they
(30:01):
remember that experience and they remember you. And Tim and
I met in the staircase because he taught on the
first floor and I taught on the second floor, and
after the planes hit in New York, and we met
on that staircase and we talked about it, and I said,
you have to turn Katie Kirk, you have to turn
an NBC on and he did and our whole school did,
(30:23):
and we had that on throughout the whole day and
we used that as a way to work through that
with students. And Tim had to leave that day because
they were calling National Guard leaders together, and like you
were the touchstone for us on what was happening, and
I just have I've always wanted to thank.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You for that.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
So I had to take a minute to do that
so thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
That means a lot to me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And it was a terrible, terrible day, terrible day, and
yet I feel like the country sort of experienced it
in a united way and came together after that horrible
event in a way that it hadn't and certainly hasn't
for many many years. And I, personally, Gwen, have never
(31:14):
seen the country so divided and so at odds. And
I wanted to ask you about your kids because Gus
was just so awesome at the DNC. He was so
excited seeing his dad up on stage and it was
(31:34):
so moving to me and of course your daughter Hope
as well. But after the DNC there were some hateful
comments made on the right about Gus, and I'm just curious,
as a mom, how you protect your kids from this toxic,
(31:57):
toxic environment we're in.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Politically.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, well, that was so overwhelming, I think for our
whole family. It happened so so quickly, and that room
was so amazing, and seeing Tim take the stage, like,
I still get choked up about that, and Gus just
expressed that, and you know, he just turned eighteen and
(32:27):
I was on the phone with him just before this,
he called me to give me an update on the
cat this morning and to talk about his day. My
sister was staying with us and with him, and so
I was I was talking to him, and you know,
we have we.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Have talked, we've had to talk about.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
He was two weeks old, a little more two and
a half weeks sold when Tim was elected to Congress.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So what he has known is his dad in politics.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
He didn't know his dad in a school, right, so
this has been his reality. And we have we've had
We lived in a district that was more red than
blue when Tim was a congressman, and so we've encountered
these sort of conversations and this this sort of I mean,
this is this is more than we've never accounted. But
(33:15):
it's not it's not a new thing to have people
be more hateful than they need to be. And what
we've always said to our kids, you know, is they're
going to say a lot of things that are very
mean and that are not true. But we know who
we are, and we have a great family around us,
(33:37):
and we have great friends around us, and that just
shows us how we are not going to act. And
you know that that's not true about you, and you
might have a response at times or want to have
a response, but we're not going to do that on
social media. We're not going to do that because we
(33:57):
talked to people face to face and we build relationship
together face to face, not across platforms of hate.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
These people usually it's not about you.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
It's about something in their own lives that they're unhappy
with and what Dad and I and you and Hope
and Gus are working towards. That's part of service right now,
and we have to do everything we can to try
to change that.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
But we are fortunate to serve.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
We get to live our values and tear our values,
and you know, if we want to cry in the pillow,
we can, and then we have to go on. Even
if you want to say a few words and put
a quarter in the squear jar, Okay, but then we're
going to write, We're going to move on because we
know who we are.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And then, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
There are things because brands are still developing when you're
eighteen and twenty three. But I said, Gus, you know
you have a lot more people who love you, right,
and look at some of the positive comments that you've gotten,
and look at the community who feels that you and
Dad and I are speaking to them and for them,
(35:07):
and how proud they feel of you and all of us.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Talk about that community, Gwenn and what you've heard from
that community.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
That has been amazing that I mean people again come
and share their stories and share their compassion. I have
people have t shirts all over like you know, I'm
voting for Gus's dad, or I love Gus, or you know,
I have hope or you know, all of these really
(35:38):
amazing things, because they're trying to embrace our family too,
and they're trying to encourage those kids. And those are
such good, brave people. I can't thank them enough. And
there are people who you know, with the neuro divergent
and all the all those things, who feel like it's
time to have that conversation and they hope we will.
(35:59):
And I think it's begun a conversation and I'm anxious.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
To continue that.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And then there are really you know, you have to,
like my mom says, do the work in front of you.
You have to use your own time and talents and
expertise whatever they might be. But I do want to
say this on Gus's birthday, which was October thirteenth.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Chris Rock called.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Gush to wish them a happy birthday and to talk about,
you know, to talk about just kind of how special
their superpowers are.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Now, how amazing is that? That? That is no more special?
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Right? I mean, it is special, but it's no more
special than people who are on the ropeline who are
telling me those stories and asking us to have a
national conversation.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I take that very seriously.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I'm proud of both my kiddos, and I am hopeful
that we are teaching them the responsibility of service and
what they might do for their country when the moment calls,
even if it's something.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
That you little expect.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
So there are benefits definitely to all of it and
to all the stories in to what we're learning, to
conversations that are new that we get to have and
learning that we get to have.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Another thing that critics have seized on were a couple
of occasions when your husband has misremembered things. Yeah, and
I think sort of question his character because of his
recollections or his misstatements of what actually happened. Can you
(37:56):
shed any light on those incidents when people listening or
watching that might explain sort of these incidents that his
opponents have really seized on.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I mean, this is how this is how I see it, right.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I think that when you are a teacher, you are
used to putting things in terms for people to understand,
and Tim is a fabulous communicator, right, And in that effort,
like let's just take the example of when he was
in Tieneman Square, he probably said during the summer of
(38:40):
nineteen eighty nine, and then someone said, well, what part
of the summer, and he would say, well, I don't know.
I think it was probably the first part of the summer.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You know, And so then he'd be like, oh, was
it the first part of the summer. Well, he's not
looking at a calendar.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
From nineteen eighty nine, and in politics, you know, I
don't know if you have to go back through that.
But he was right there in the summer, and frankly,
Tianeman Square looked a lot like it did on June fourth,
nineteen eighty nine, six months later, seven months later, eight
(39:16):
months later, right, there were tanks, there was it was
a militant atmosphere. So I think in an effort to
clarify sometimes he you know, would say a statement and
then people would narrow that, try to narrow it down,
and he would probably try to narrow it down in
his own mind. Tim is an incredibly authentic person and
(39:37):
an incredibly transparent person.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
And I think he tries.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think he tries to answer the question, and like
in a debate, that can be your first mistake trying
to answer the question right instead of just trying to
get your talking points out there. But he's authentic about
that and authentic about communication. And does he get details wrong? Yes,
there are times, you know, there are times when he says,
you know, like I bought a new golf club when
(40:10):
and I'll say, okay, so like how much how much
money was that?
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Or what to take out of the checking account, you know,
and he rounds and like that rounding air.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
That might not be exactly what it is, Katie, but
it's in the spirit of it, right, And that's just
who he is.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
The important thing is he bought a new.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Golf book, right, and and there's money coming out of
the checking account because we're very much a middle class family,
so we have to keep track of all kinds of
all kinds of things like that. And that's how I
see it. What you see is what you get with Tim.
I'm incredibly proud of him. I also am. You know,
like we work together, We are a partnership. We have
(40:50):
been from day one, and I you know, I know
his strengths and I know the things that we're still
working on, just like he knows my st and he
knows the things I'm still working on. You are getting
a teacher, a football coach, an incredibly smart man, a
retired military veteran. But what he cares about and what
(41:13):
he's always cared about, are people. And he has always
tried to serve and make the difference that he can
for people. And that's what he and Kamala have in common.
And they knew it the first moment that they spoke,
the first moment that they met. And I knew it
the first time. I was on the bus with Kamala
(41:33):
and Doug and Tim and I and we all said,
how do you run races? You run them like you're
ten points down and they like set it in unison
And that's the only text we all share with each other,
ten points down, because that's how hard every one of
us is working every single day in different directions.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Gwen, I know that it must be hard because, of
course you've been married to Tim for a long time,
you have kids with him, and I think in a
campaign sometimes people, you know, they make these assumptions about people,
and I think you've probably witnessed that happening with your husband.
(42:15):
He's been criticized by the right for things like supporting
gender affirming care, signing a law that mandates free minstration
products in public school restrooms. Some people have called him
tampon Tim, and I think they've painted a portrait of
an uber liberal guy. And you know, they talk about
(42:37):
the school lunches and school breakfasts, which I don't know
how you can actually criticize that, but I'm curious how
you would describe kind of his overall philosophy and political
philosophy when it comes to issues like that.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I think Tim and I have always thought about removing
barriers to learning success us and whatever that barrier is,
whether it be free lunch, orminstruation products, or knowing who
you are. Everyone means everyone, and some things look different
for some people. People have different needs and they have
(43:15):
different resources. But everyone means everyone and all of us,
and so that is not that is not an unmessy journey,
right but we have looked at it like what do.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
You need to move forward?
Speaker 2 (43:33):
What do you need to be happy and healthy and
have success? And how might we most effectively and best
help with that? And then mind your own damn business, right,
then get out of the way, because and I think
that those two pieces probably described him. He's compassionate, he's empathetic.
(43:59):
He removes barriers. You know, if kids are hungry in school,
what that does to brain and learning, You're not going
to learn to read. So if you're talking about learning
to read and closing gaps, then you better take away
the barriers for that. If that's tampons, then that's tampon, right,
take away the barriers, and let's get to the real
work of this, not get lost in what are you know,
(44:22):
what our components? And and as some people would say,
you know, egling the playing field or whatever it might be.
I think he does a great job of that. But
I also think, you know, then he's like, whose business
is that? Like, mind it yourself? Now I have to
put a quarter in this square jar, but but mind it,
(44:44):
mind it yourself, Like, let's let's just get on about
the real important issues that we have to solve, not
get caught up.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
In people's own personal uh business. Let's just provide what
we need to provide. You know, we see atquity as getting.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
People what they need to get to a specific place
where we can have that conversation.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I've heard you've gotten advice from both the second Gentleman
Doug m Hoff and first Lady Jill Biden. I'm curious
what they've told you that you have found particularly useful.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Oh, Gosh, okay.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
So you know, as a teacher and a learner, good
teachers are good learners, and I strive to be a
good teacher.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
So I hope I'm a good learner.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I take advice and seek resources from everybody that I
can in order to do the best job I can.
I'm taking this very I mean ultra seriously, right like
I I'm honored to be able to be in this position,
and I want to do it as the best I can.
(45:49):
So Doug m Hoff called me right away and continues
to call me. And you know, he and Gosh share
a birthday, so that was a kind of a fun
celebration with every on. And he is such an amazing
person and how he models support for his wife and
(46:10):
empowers women and empowers me. Is really miraculous. So he is,
you know, I have good sense of humor about things.
Has also said ask for what you need, you know,
ask for what you need. Be determined in what you're doing,
and you know, let us know, but take time for
(46:32):
yourself too. And so I mean all and lots of
other things, but really good perspective, right, And since he's
done this and recently and still doing it right and
they are the top of the ticket, that's super helpful
and empowering advice. And you know, he was great with
our children right away and like said, here's my cell
(46:53):
phone number, let me know if you need anything. I'm like, okay, kids,
do not text that man. He is very busy, you know.
Guss is like, I think I'm a text Doug and
have some I'm like, wait, hang on, you know, and
he's like, no, he said it good and like he
means it. But I know, so he I. Relationships are important,
(47:15):
and I and doctor Biden. When Tim was elected to Congress,
Joe Biden and doctor Biden were in the Senate and
so we knew them from from Congress. And like, Joe
Biden and I were too functioning educators, right, at that time.
So on in different places and different times, we are
(47:35):
like the ones correcting papers. And so that was and
if that was an affinity that we shared. And she
came to Augsburg University where I teach one class during
the last election cycle, and we did an event together
in the courtyard at the university.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
And and you know, she's a trailblazer right in her
own way.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And she's a good teacher and a good mom.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Right and just.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
She's just such a good perspective. And she is this
determined and strong of a person as I've as I've
ever met. And I get to campaign with her coming up,
and I'm so looking forward to that. And so she
balances all all of it, and you know, like in
(48:27):
in high heels, she balances it. You know that Freda
is thing like Ginger Rogers did it all in backwards.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
That's always talk about doctor Biden.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
And she also is always available to me, good days,
bad days, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
She does not.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
When she's your friend and supporter, she really means it.
And that is good to remember because when you're on
this campaign journey to still keep and value all of
those relationships that are so important to you and find
a way to do that.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
She's given me good advice on that.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Well, Gwyn Walls, I know you have a very busy
day ahead. I can't tell you how much we appreciate
you taking all this time to allow us to get
to know you a little bit better and to listen
to your story and hear your values, and we're just
very grateful. So thank you.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
You're the best. Thank you, Thanks for listening. Everyone.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
If you have a question for me, a subject you
want us to cover, or you want to share your
thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world reach out.
You can leave a short message at six oh nine
five one two five five oh five, or you can
send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to
hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia
(50:02):
and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric,
and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and
our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller
composed art theme music. For more information about today's episode,
or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call,
(50:24):
go to the description in the podcast app or visit
us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me
on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Katie Couric
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