November 27, 2023 • 38 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, our next storyteller has the privilege of being in one of the most beloved movies of all time (It's a Wonderful Life)—while, at the same time, and from the same movie—also has one of the most famous lines in movie history. Her story is as wonderful as both of these accomplishments.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
To search for the Our American Stories podcast, go to
the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Our
Next Storyteller has the privilege of being in one of
the most beloved movies of all time, while at the
(00:31):
same time and from the same movie, also has one
of the most famous lines in movie history. Her story
is as wonderful as both of these accomplishments. Let's take
a listen.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
My name is Carolyn Grimes, and I was a child actress.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And I lived in Hollywood, and my mother.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Was a stage mom. She felt like I should be
in the movies. So I was an only child, and
she truly put all her.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Energies to that end.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And I had all kinds of lessons, dancing, singing, lucution, dialogue.
I mean, everything was given to me, and I had
the opportunity I'll never forget when I did dialect.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I practiced so hard.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Give me please a piece of chocolate lot.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
It was so fun.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I mean, I really had a good time growing up,
and that was hard work to do. All that. I
played the violin at five. I played the piano at three,
so all I did was practice pretty much most of
my free time practice something.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
But this was in nineteen forties, so.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Back in the day Hollywood was pretty much all people
in the industry was the main way people made a
living was working in the industry in some form, so
it wasn't any big deal. Everybody, all the kids were
involved in that, so I never really realized it was
(02:15):
special or that I was special. So my mom took
me to see an agent, and the agent liked me.
Her name was Lola Moore and she had the biggest
stable of kids in Hollywood, and she sent me on
an interview and I got apart, so I was in.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
That was the end of that.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I started when I was four years old. I was
in a movie called That Night with You. That was
my first.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
But I did advertising.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I did all kinds of things throughout that time in
my life.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I advertised Buster brown shoes and all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So that's kind of how I got started, and I
really had a good time. By the time I did
It's a Wonderful Life. I was six and I'd already
done four.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Movies, so it's wonderful life. Is the flagship for me.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
That's the movie that everybody remembers and everyone wants to
hear about.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Back in the day, we didn't have auditions.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
We had interviews, and that was usually one on one
with the casting directors. So you went to the casting
office and maybe there were five or six of us,
and you just.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Waited your turn.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Then you went in talked to the casting people and boom,
boom boom.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's it. So it wasn't like an audition.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And most of us, I would say almost all of
us were representing Lola Moore, that one agent who had
children all over la that were in the movie business.
So we just go there and my mother would take
me to interviews. And she took me to this interview
(04:04):
and I sat there and we were just kind of
talking with other kids, and this mother accidentally.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Spilled coffee on.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Me on my dress because we wore dresses back then always,
you know, and they were up to your butt, I
mean they were so short, so it will had a
soil dress when I walked in there to talk to
the casting director, and lo and behold. When I got
in there, Fred Kapper was in there, and so I
(04:34):
had an interview with him and the casting director. And
you know, I don't know what the mother thought she
was going to do, but I ended up get it.
Gave me something to talk about, so I was chatty Kathy,
you know. And when we were leaving, this is when
I found out. I heard my mother talk to another
mother and she said, well, you know, she thought she
(04:57):
spilled that coffee on purpose, so you know, screwed me
up when I went in to do my interview. But
that was how I got the part. Eventually got all
these parts. I played with Bing Crosbie and I played
with some of the greatest people of all time. I
(05:21):
was in Real Grand with John Wayne, and that was.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
A huge movie.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And I was on the set in Moab Utah as
a little kid, and I just that was my favorite
of all the movies I ever did, because I got
to ride in covered wagons with Indians chasing me on horses.
You know, I got to do all these fun things
and it was just great. And you know, the Indians
(05:49):
were brought in from the reservation and I was with
Pat Wayne was John Wayne's son, and he had both
Mike and Pat for the summer. They were there during
the filming and they were actually in the film, so
pat was my age, and we played and had a
really good time. But we were told you can never
(06:10):
go around the Native Americans, don't go there. Well, of
course we went right there and we spied on them
and it was just, you know, it was really an
interesting time and I really had fun. The sons of
the pioneers were there and they'd serenade us, and.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Then I turned ten while we were there.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And the Korean conflict broke out at that time, and
they confiscated a lot of the planes, so it was
a little difficult for them to get shipments of food
and things like that flown in.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
But John Wayne happened to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Be able to get three hundred dollars worth of fireworks.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And my birthday was the fourth of July. He had
that all shipped in. He had a big.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Cake made and we went out to the Colorado River
bluffs and was happy birthday, little miss Caroline.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It was a great time.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
And you've been listening to Carolyn Grime share her story
as a child actress, and my goodness to be on
an interview, not an audition, an interview and have Frank
Africam in the room. Surreal when we come back more
of Carolyn Grime's story and just her personality and her
wit and her memory. Here on Our American Story. Liehabibi
(07:30):
here the host of our American Stories. Every day on
this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across this great country,
stories from our big cities and small towns. But we
truly can't do the show without you. Our stories are
free to listen to, but they're not free to make.
If you love what you hear, go to Ouramericanstories dot
com and click the donate button. Give a little, give
(07:53):
a lot. Go to Alamericanstories dot com and give and
we're back with our American Stories and with Carolyn Grimes's story.
(08:13):
She was six years old when she started as Jimmy
Stewart's daughter Zuzu in the nineteen forty six Christmas classic
It's a Wonderful Life, although, as she told us before
the break, her favorite movie was Rio Grand, released in
nineteen fifty, starring alongside the great John Wayne. Here again
is Carolyn Grimes.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I like doing the Westerns because there was horses involved.
There was always excitement in Albuquerque. I got to ride
on a stage coach right at the top and the
horses you know, were pulling us and it was really great.
And Gabby Hayes was in that movie and he went
to the director and complained and said, it was very
(08:59):
day for me to do that.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
He wouldn't even do it. He had a stunt devil
do it. So I was up there. You're not tied
in or anything.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
You know, you're not secure, You're just there and the
horses could lurch and you go, you know, who knows.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But that was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And because the director didn't pay attention to Gabby Hayes,
so I got to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
But I enjoyed that so much.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And I made a really good friend on that set,
and that was Lon Cheney Jr. You remember Lawn Cheney Junior.
He was the wolfman, very scary dude.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Well, I liked him a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Because he was nice to me and he took time
to talk to me. I mean, I was shocked because
I thought he'd be real scary, and he kind of
was scary, but I didn't care he was.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
He was kind of.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I liked him because he told me I was ugly
and I said, well, why am I ugly? And he said,
because you have freckles? And I agreed, I had freckles.
I hated the damn things.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
I hated freckles.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So yeah, I begin to like him right away. And
I watched every scene that he did in fighting and
things like that. He did one fight scene with Randolph Scott.
In the entire scene he's got a cigarette hanging out
of his mouth. He told me before he did the scene.
He said, now, Carolin, he said, I am, I'm just
(10:28):
going to tell you that I'm going to bleed and you're.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Gonna watch this. And he said, this is what I have.
A capsule, this capsule.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I'm gonna put it in my mouth and he said,
I'm gonna hit my cheek in some way and break
that capsule and the blood's going to come out of
my mouth.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But I'm not hurt. It's just fake. Isn't that great?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
He took the time to tell me that, and I
thought that was really super. I don't know, I really
enjoyed doing that a lot. And then I loved Blue
Skies with Bing Crosby.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
He was so great.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He sent me my wardrobe that was in the movie
for after the movie present. Back in the day, the
Big Star sent the members of the cast a gift
as soon as the movie was over, and he sent
me my clothes from the film, which I thought was
pretty cool. So I just really enjoyed doing those kinds
(11:23):
of things with these stars and they were so.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Down to earth.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
The ones that weren't down to earth us kids were
told at the very beginning, don't have anything to do
with them, and so we were warned and we didn't.
David Nevin was one. There were quite a few that
didn't like children and didn't want to be bothered, so
(11:50):
we didn't bother them.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
That was just the rule. And if you did bother them,
or you forgot.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Your lines, or you do all these things, you wouldn't
last long because you get there's a lot of people
that would take would take.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Your job from you, a lot of kids.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So the other movie that I really had fun with
was The Bishop's Wife. It was nominated for an Academy
Award and it didn't didn't win an Academy Award, but
it was a wonderful film. I mean, it's wonderful life.
(12:24):
Was nominated for five Academy Awards and it didn't win anything,
and so it got special mention for the making of
the snow.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
That was it and that was ivory soap flakes that Frank.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Kapra actually mixed him together with fau mite and made
the solution himself. He actually had a degree in chemical engineering,
and so he made that snow. He created it, and
they still use that technique in some of the movies today.
It was pretty remarkable because before that the snow had
(12:58):
been cornflakes braided with kind of a white concoction, and.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
The problem was they.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Crunched when you stepped on them, and Frank Capra wanted
silent snow, so that's how they got the silent snow.
But if you'll notice, and it's wonderful life, when George
is on the bridge and he jumps in to save clearance,
there's all this soap SuDS.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Around in the water.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It's all over where it goes all over their faces.
When George pulls him out, it's all over their faces.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
So it's kind of a funny thing.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And the guy that's in the bridge keeper house he
comes out and he's got this flashlight. Now it's an
ordinary flashlight, just you know, regular, and he shines it
down on them and it's like a beam from heaven,
you know, it's this giant beam coming down on a
You know, you don't pay attention to things like that
when you're watching the movie, but I think it's a
(13:57):
lot of fun to kind of think about things like that.
The movie was shot in the hot, hot summertime, and
it only took three months to shoot the film. They
started in April and they finished up the end of July,
and it.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Was beastly hot, really, but the.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Inside part of the bridge was done on a stage
and they were able to keep that area fairly cool.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So they had a lot of crushed ice for.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Snow that they used as well, you know, on the
sides of the road and things like that on the roads,
and that was all shot inside a stage. There was
a location on the studio ranch and Ensino for all
the outside scenes and the buildings and things like that,
(14:53):
but for the most part, the whole thing was shot
on a stage or in the back lot. That's where
the water was was built in the back lot, and
so it was all right there. But it was really
hot and we were wearing winter clothes. And when there's
a scene where Jimmy Sewart gets a real close up
(15:15):
as his eyes are big and you can see the.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Sweat running off his face. It's because he's hot. He's
really hot with his wool scratchy suit on, and it's like.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Ninety some degrees and that was extreme weather for La
at the time. So working with Capra was a dream.
He was very particular, He was meticulous. He handpicked everybody
that was in that movie, even the extras, he handpicked them.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
There was a young woman who was.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
A what do you call it?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
In The Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
She was one of the little people, but she was
just a young girl and she danced and ended up
having a dance career as a teacher, and so she
was brought on the set for Its Wonderful Life when
they had the scene where they're dancing at the high
(16:16):
school gymnasium. So she came and she taught all the
kids how to do the Charleston. And her name was
Priscilla Montgomery, and well it is she's still with us.
But she had on a purple dress, and so she
was the first person to jump in the pool. So
(16:41):
she got fifty dollars extra tacked onto her check because
she was the first one, and the other kids that
jumped in got twenty five dollars for jumping in.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And We've been listening to Carolyn Grime share the stories
of being on set as a child actress in the West,
places like Albuquerque, in some of our great national parks,
and also in the back lots of Burbank and Insino,
making its a wonderful life. And who would have known.
I did not and could not have imagined that was
(17:13):
all done in a back lot. And my goodness to
hear about Frank Capra, and I've read so much about
how he worked, and my goodness, every detail down to
not only interviewing the children actors, but hand picking the
extras and directors. My goodness, the good ones and the
great ones. The details matter more of Carolyn Grimes, her
(17:33):
stories about It's a wonderful life, and so much more
here on our American stories. And we returned to our
(18:09):
American stories and Carolyn Grimes talking about It's a Wonderful life.
The movie she started is Jimmy Stewart's Daughter Zuzu. She
was discussing the dance competition at Bedford Falls High School
and how the young actors were taught to Charleston from
one of the girls who played one of the munchkins
in the Wizard of Oz the actors turned dance instructor,
(18:30):
Priscilla Montgomery earned an extra fifty dollars for being the
first to jump into the swimming pool during the dance scene,
but she quickly found out that that money was not
easy money. Here again is Carolyn Grimes.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But she had this purple beaded dress on and when
she jumped in.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
She told me that the weight from these beads pulled
her down under.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And she said it was all she could do to
keep her head above water because it was so heavy,
and they had to help her get out because she
couldn't get out on her own. She couldn't pull herself
out because the dress was so heavy beated. So it
was an interesting story. Oh my goodness, there are so
many interesting stories.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
So I enjoyed doing all these movies.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And I was taught that these people were normal, ordinary folks.
These stars were not I mean, they weren't stars. I
mean I didn't even know what a star was.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
My mother father.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Kept me in the dark about a lot of things
like that so that I would act normal, I guess.
So I just thought they were my friends. I had
no idea that these were stars.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
So I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
And then about the time I did The Bishop's Wife
with Carrie Grant, Loretty Young and David Nevin, my mother
started getting sick.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And that's when.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I realiz is that my life was going to take
a different path, because she had early onset Alzheimer's and
she started slipping and it took her five years, but
she died when I was fourteen.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So during that time, it was hard for.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
My father to be with me on the set. He
was a manager of a safe boy store, and he
had to hire somebody to take me to an interview,
and then he'd have to hire somebody to be my
guardian on this stage if I got a job, and
so he wasn't that interested in having me in the
movies anyway. And of course by that time I discovered boys,
(20:40):
and so I wasn't that greatly interested in acting either.
So when I was fourteen, my mom died, and then
a year later my dad was killed in a car accident,
so my life kind of changed. At that point. I
was an orphan, so the court took over because my
(21:01):
father didn't leave a will, So I had a mean
aunt and uncle from Missouri. It was my father's brother
and his horrible, mean wife. They came out and they
got me, and they.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Took me back to a little town in Missouri. I'd
gone to LA High.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
There were nine hundred kids in my class at LA High.
There were eight hundred people in the whole town, so.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I had thirty six other kids in my class in
my high school.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
But you know, I thought I'd been sent to hell,
and I didn't think I would recover from that. And
I tried every way possible to think of how I
could run away. But I didn't have any money, and
I didn't have any way to get out, and I
didn't have any anybody.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
To help me with that.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So she commandeered all my mail, so I couldn't ask
for help for anybody from anybody in California. And eventually
she stopped all the communication from California, so I couldn't
talk to any of my friends or anything that I
had grown up with over the years. After about a year,
(22:14):
I realized that these people in that town, my teachers,
the merchants, my friends at school, everyone really rallied around me,
and they knew this woman was the devil, my aunt,
and they made me realize that there are loving and
(22:35):
caring people in this world, and that's when I decided
that I never wanted to go back to Hollywood again,
because it's kind of dog eat dog, and people take
advantage of you and they use you. And I can
see how this happened after I saw what real people
were about, and.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
They had no reason.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
They didn't want anything out of our relationship like they
did in California.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Then all they wanted was to give love and be friends.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And so I never went back to California after that.
Of course, I lost all contact. My hand had made
me do that. But I graduated and high school, went
to college, and I became a medical technologist woh and
then I had kids, and then I lost a husband
(23:27):
to deer hunting, and then I remarried and I was
married to the second one for twenty five years and
he died of cancer. And in that process I had
two kids. He had three, and then we had two together.
So I raised seven kids, and one of the children
(23:49):
that we had together, my son did take his own
life when he was eighteen, and that was probably the
worst experience that I will have in my life, and
it hangs over me like a cloud forever. It's a
horrible way to lose a child, but I did okay,
(24:12):
and my husband was getting sick. And there was somebody
that knocked on my door in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And they said, have you ever have you?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Are you that kid, that Zuzu kid that was in
the movie It's a Wonderful Life? And I said, well, yeah,
I was her, and they said, well, can.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
We have an interview? And I thought okay.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So I went down in the basement and drug up
all my memorabilia so I could show them all the
movies and stuff. And so it happened again the following week,
and it kept happening and I thought, you know, gee,
this is weird.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And so then I started.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Getting fan mail and I thought, holy cow, what's going
on here.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I don't understand this.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So I guess I'd better sit down and watch that film.
I had never seen the film It's a Wonderful Life
until I was forty years old.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I was raising kids. I had seven kids to raise.
I lived in the kitchen, the car, and the laundry room.
That was my life.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So you know, every once in a while at night
i'd catch Johnny Carson, but that was about it. I
didn't watch TV, so I had not seen the film.
I have to tell you, I did go to the premiere.
Granted I saw it when I was forty years old
for the first time. And you know why because I
fell asleep at the opening.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So there you go. I was six years old, you know,
long night, dude. I remember, I remember going it. I
got to talk on the radio. That was big stuff,
you know.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, after I saw it, that made my life different,
that's for sure. It affected me, just like it does
everybody else. You cry, you laugh, you feel good, you
feel sad, but in the end, it's a grateful experience
that you have gone through and you've gotten a lot
out of it.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
So I realized what the movie was.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And about that time, Jimmy Stewart had people coming to
him and saying, you know what happened to that little
girl Zuzu?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And we've been listening to Carolyn Grimes tell her story.
My goodness, what a turn it took when she was fourteen,
first losing her mom and then at fifteen her dad
dying in a car accident with no will and came
the adopted parents from Assia, small town and a really, really,
really mean aunt. But then she learned that this small
(26:56):
town rallied around her. There were good people every where,
but that knock on the door comes, and finally she's
reconnected to that life, her earlier life, and to the
film It's a Wonderful Life, which she'd never seen. She
fell asleep at the premiere. When we come back, what
happens next with Carolyn Grimes? Here on our American stories
(27:36):
and we continue with our American Stories. In nineteen eighty,
Carolyn Grimes was visited by a reporter asking if she
played Jimmy Stewart's daughter in the nineteen forty six Christmas
classic It's a Wonderful Life. This was the first of
many interactions with people wanting to know what happened to
the six year old girl who played Zuzu Bailey. So
(27:59):
the forty year old Carolyn decided to sit down and
watch It's a Wonderful Life for the very first time,
to see what all the fuss was about. Here again
is Carolyn Grime About.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That time Jimmy Stewart had people coming to him and saying,
you know what happened to that little girl, Zuzu, And
he had one of these secretaries find me. This all
happened in nineteen eighty. It was like, Wow, this is
a different world. And so that's when things started happening.
(28:32):
And I saw the movie. I knew the messages in
the movie were wonderful, and I wanted to go out
and help spread this positive messages that the film has
to offer.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
So I started doing a.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Lot of speaking and just appearances locally because I was
still raising kids. But in nineteen ninety three, the Target
company got together and they decided to promote its One
Full Life for their Christmas in their stores that year.
So they got up the Bailey Kids together. That was
(29:07):
the reunion of the Bailey Kids, and so we went
all around on a tour. They took us everywhere to
all their Target stores and it was just a blast.
And that's when I started meeting people. You know, they
would go through the autograph line and they would share
with you their stories and they would share with you
(29:28):
how that movie had affected their lives. A lot of
them had been on the bridge and that movie saved
their lives, and the messages from that film lived within
their hearts. And I realized then that this was something
that I had to do. So I loved being on
the road, and I've been on the road ever since,
(29:52):
travel everywhere, and then I started It's Wonderful Life Festival
in Seneca Falls twenty years ago. It's just the best
experience you could ever have.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
So the second weekend in December and it's in Seneca Falls,
New York, and it's all about It's a Wonderful Life.
It's great, it's really wonderful. There are so many people
who come and inquire in Bedford Falls or Seneca Falls
about the film. So we started a museum in twenty ten,
(30:27):
and it's a Wonderful Life museum. It's the only museum
in the country that celebrates a black and white movie.
And it's a great little place to go in Seneca Falls.
And that's another reason to go to the festival is
because this wonderful museum. It's got a lot of great
stuff in it, and people come and they enjoy every
(30:50):
bit of it. And we have thousands and thousands that
go through it and they love the film so much.
It's a great experience. So I hope everyone can make it,
certainly at least one time in their life. And of
course I've gone through, you know, meeting a lot of
(31:13):
the cast members from the film and as they check
out saying goodbye and they get their wings. So we're
kind of a small number. Now we have Jimmy Hawkins
who played Little Tommy, and Carol Coombs Mueller who played Janey,
who played the piano.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Jimmy was the kid who burked, and I was still
with us.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And there was a twins that played the baby of Pete.
When he's in the height or the playpen, she picks
him up and that's pet Well, the twins are still alive,
and also the baby that played Janey is still alive.
(32:05):
And then there's another fellow that's alive, and he was
in the beginning scene where the boys are sliding down
the heel and the ice, and we call him shovel Boy.
And he really just started becoming active with us at
the festival and so he's there every year now. Then
(32:31):
Virginia Patton Moss, who played Harry Bailey's wife, she is
still with us, yeah, and she I think she's ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
But it's great.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So we have a lot of fun during the festival
and I'm usually on the road from October through December
through Christmas and then I mean I'm gone every weekend someplace.
So it's wonderful, have the best time. I meet so
many wonderful people. It's just been the best thing that
(33:05):
ever happened to my life. And I'm thrilled and honored
to be that little girl that played Zuzu. I had
a lot of fun filming with Jimmy Stewart, and I
actually think that for me, my favorite part was the
pedal scene. Hi, Baddy, what happened to you?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I want a flower?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Oh no, where do you think you're going?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
What did my f I'll give that out of the flower,
I'll give it a drink. No, Daddy, hey get.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Together.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Of course I saw him put the pedals in his pocket,
and Frank Kaeper did not change that. You know, you
don't shoot a scene just once, you do it twenty times,
especially because he had a huge amount.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Of extra footage.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But Capra left it that in there because he wanted
I wanted to show that I knew my daddy wasn't perfect,
but I loved him very much, so that's why he
left it in there. And then I started a whisper.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I give the flower a drink. I will you do
something for me? Some sleep?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I know, I know?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
And then you can dream about it and I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh God, career.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
I have no clue why I started to whisper, I
want to give it a drink. I want to give
my flower a drink.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Why I whispered, I have no clue, because he didn't
tell me to do that.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
But he liked that too, so that was fun.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
And then, of course the scene where I'm coming down
the stairs on Jimmy Stewart's back, Oh my gosh. When
I was on the stairs on his back, Larry Simms,
who played Pete, well, he's behind us and he's lifting
my rump so that I'm giving it, you know, so
I'm not falling off his back.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
And then when he comes down the stairs, he's got
Mary's hand in his left hand.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And he's got Tommy under his right arm, and I'm
hanging on his back, literally his neck, with my arms
and my legs wrapped around him like a little frog.
And it's just that was quiet experience. And of course
we didn't do that just once either. We did it
many times.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
But I always prayed that I wouldn't fall off of him.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And he was very tall, he was six feet four,
so I was way up there in the air. But
it was great memories, great memories. Most people ask me
the question, what was it like working with Jimmy Stewart?
(36:04):
And I loved working with Jimmy Stewart.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
He was kind, he was.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Generous, and after he found me in nineteen eighty, we
became friends and we did a couple of things together,
and it was really nice to have him in my life.
The other thing I think was his gentleness. He was
very gentle with me, and I appreciate that very much.
(36:30):
So when I said the line that everybody remembers and
the movies remembered before, for for sure, I had no
idea that that line would become a piece of film history.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
And it truly has.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's everywhere, and it's a line that people will always
remember forever. And I'm blessed to be able to say that.
Daddy said, every time a bell rings, an angel gets
his wings. So I wish everyone would really watch the
(37:10):
film every Christmas. It's become a tradition and a lot
of homes, and I think that it gives a little
bit of positive feelings and it gives a little bit
of hope for all of us. If we watch that
movie every year at.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Christmas, and an amen to that, a terrific job on
the production by Greg Hangler, and a special thanks to
Carolyn Grimes for her storytelling. And by the way, to
go to or visit the It's a Wonderful Life Festival,
You're going to go to Seneca Falls, New York, a
beautiful part of this country. It's every year in early
(37:44):
December and go to Wonderfulifemuseum dot com to find out
more about the museum. And boy, what Carolyn learned when
Target took the Bailey Kids on the road. He said,
together we learned the stories of so many people, and
the film saved lives, and we hope we do the
same here at our American Stories, which tell positive stories
(38:07):
for a good and beautiful country. The story of Caroline
Grimes and It's a Wonderful Life here on our American
Stories
This is Lee Habib and this is Our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
To search for the Our American Stories podcast, go to
the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Our
Next Storyteller has the privilege of being in one of
the most beloved movies of all time, while at the
(00:31):
same time and from the same movie, also has one
of the most famous lines in movie history. Her story
is as wonderful as both of these accomplishments. Let's take
a listen.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
My name is Carolyn Grimes, and I was a child actress.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And I lived in Hollywood, and my mother.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Was a stage mom. She felt like I should be
in the movies. So I was an only child, and
she truly put all her.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Energies to that end.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And I had all kinds of lessons, dancing, singing, lucution, dialogue.
I mean, everything was given to me, and I had
the opportunity I'll never forget when I did dialect.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I practiced so hard.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Give me please a piece of chocolate lot.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
It was so fun.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I mean, I really had a good time growing up,
and that was hard work to do. All that. I
played the violin at five. I played the piano at three,
so all I did was practice pretty much most of
my free time practice something.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
But this was in nineteen forties, so.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Back in the day Hollywood was pretty much all people
in the industry was the main way people made a
living was working in the industry in some form, so
it wasn't any big deal. Everybody, all the kids were
involved in that, so I never really realized it was
(02:15):
special or that I was special. So my mom took
me to see an agent, and the agent liked me.
Her name was Lola Moore and she had the biggest
stable of kids in Hollywood, and she sent me on
an interview and I got apart, so I was in.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
That was the end of that.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I started when I was four years old. I was
in a movie called That Night with You. That was
my first.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
But I did advertising.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I did all kinds of things throughout that time in
my life.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I advertised Buster brown shoes and all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
So that's kind of how I got started, and I
really had a good time. By the time I did
It's a Wonderful Life. I was six and I'd already
done four.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Movies, so it's wonderful life. Is the flagship for me.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
That's the movie that everybody remembers and everyone wants to
hear about.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Back in the day, we didn't have auditions.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
We had interviews, and that was usually one on one
with the casting directors. So you went to the casting
office and maybe there were five or six of us,
and you just.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Waited your turn.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Then you went in talked to the casting people and boom,
boom boom.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's it. So it wasn't like an audition.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And most of us, I would say almost all of
us were representing Lola Moore, that one agent who had
children all over la that were in the movie business.
So we just go there and my mother would take
me to interviews. And she took me to this interview
(04:04):
and I sat there and we were just kind of
talking with other kids, and this mother accidentally.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Spilled coffee on.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Me on my dress because we wore dresses back then always,
you know, and they were up to your butt, I
mean they were so short, so it will had a
soil dress when I walked in there to talk to
the casting director, and lo and behold. When I got
in there, Fred Kapper was in there, and so I
(04:34):
had an interview with him and the casting director. And
you know, I don't know what the mother thought she
was going to do, but I ended up get it.
Gave me something to talk about, so I was chatty Kathy,
you know. And when we were leaving, this is when
I found out. I heard my mother talk to another
mother and she said, well, you know, she thought she
(04:57):
spilled that coffee on purpose, so you know, screwed me
up when I went in to do my interview. But
that was how I got the part. Eventually got all
these parts. I played with Bing Crosbie and I played
with some of the greatest people of all time. I
(05:21):
was in Real Grand with John Wayne, and that was.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
A huge movie.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And I was on the set in Moab Utah as
a little kid, and I just that was my favorite
of all the movies I ever did, because I got
to ride in covered wagons with Indians chasing me on horses.
You know, I got to do all these fun things
and it was just great. And you know, the Indians
(05:49):
were brought in from the reservation and I was with
Pat Wayne was John Wayne's son, and he had both
Mike and Pat for the summer. They were there during
the filming and they were actually in the film, so
pat was my age, and we played and had a
really good time. But we were told you can never
(06:10):
go around the Native Americans, don't go there. Well, of
course we went right there and we spied on them
and it was just, you know, it was really an
interesting time and I really had fun. The sons of
the pioneers were there and they'd serenade us, and.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Then I turned ten while we were there.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And the Korean conflict broke out at that time, and
they confiscated a lot of the planes, so it was
a little difficult for them to get shipments of food
and things like that flown in.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
But John Wayne happened to.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Be able to get three hundred dollars worth of fireworks.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
And my birthday was the fourth of July. He had
that all shipped in. He had a big.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Cake made and we went out to the Colorado River
bluffs and was happy birthday, little miss Caroline.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It was a great time.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
And you've been listening to Carolyn Grime share her story
as a child actress, and my goodness to be on
an interview, not an audition, an interview and have Frank
Africam in the room. Surreal when we come back more
of Carolyn Grime's story and just her personality and her
wit and her memory. Here on Our American Story. Liehabibi
(07:30):
here the host of our American Stories. Every day on
this show, we're bringing inspiring stories from across this great country,
stories from our big cities and small towns. But we
truly can't do the show without you. Our stories are
free to listen to, but they're not free to make.
If you love what you hear, go to Ouramericanstories dot
com and click the donate button. Give a little, give
(07:53):
a lot. Go to Alamericanstories dot com and give and
we're back with our American Stories and with Carolyn Grimes's story.
(08:13):
She was six years old when she started as Jimmy
Stewart's daughter Zuzu in the nineteen forty six Christmas classic
It's a Wonderful Life, although, as she told us before
the break, her favorite movie was Rio Grand, released in
nineteen fifty, starring alongside the great John Wayne. Here again
is Carolyn Grimes.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I like doing the Westerns because there was horses involved.
There was always excitement in Albuquerque. I got to ride
on a stage coach right at the top and the
horses you know, were pulling us and it was really great.
And Gabby Hayes was in that movie and he went
to the director and complained and said, it was very
(08:59):
day for me to do that.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
He wouldn't even do it. He had a stunt devil
do it. So I was up there. You're not tied
in or anything.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
You know, you're not secure, You're just there and the
horses could lurch and you go, you know, who knows.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But that was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And because the director didn't pay attention to Gabby Hayes,
so I got to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
But I enjoyed that so much.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And I made a really good friend on that set,
and that was Lon Cheney Jr. You remember Lawn Cheney Junior.
He was the wolfman, very scary dude.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Well, I liked him a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Because he was nice to me and he took time
to talk to me. I mean, I was shocked because
I thought he'd be real scary, and he kind of
was scary, but I didn't care he was.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
He was kind of.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I liked him because he told me I was ugly
and I said, well, why am I ugly? And he said,
because you have freckles? And I agreed, I had freckles.
I hated the damn things.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
I hated freckles.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So yeah, I begin to like him right away. And
I watched every scene that he did in fighting and
things like that. He did one fight scene with Randolph Scott.
In the entire scene he's got a cigarette hanging out
of his mouth. He told me before he did the scene.
He said, now, Carolin, he said, I am, I'm just
(10:28):
going to tell you that I'm going to bleed and you're.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Gonna watch this. And he said, this is what I have.
A capsule, this capsule.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I'm gonna put it in my mouth and he said,
I'm gonna hit my cheek in some way and break
that capsule and the blood's going to come out of
my mouth.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But I'm not hurt. It's just fake. Isn't that great?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
He took the time to tell me that, and I
thought that was really super. I don't know, I really
enjoyed doing that a lot. And then I loved Blue
Skies with Bing Crosby.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
He was so great.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He sent me my wardrobe that was in the movie
for after the movie present. Back in the day, the
Big Star sent the members of the cast a gift
as soon as the movie was over, and he sent
me my clothes from the film, which I thought was
pretty cool. So I just really enjoyed doing those kinds
(11:23):
of things with these stars and they were so.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Down to earth.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
The ones that weren't down to earth us kids were
told at the very beginning, don't have anything to do
with them, and so we were warned and we didn't.
David Nevin was one. There were quite a few that
didn't like children and didn't want to be bothered, so
(11:50):
we didn't bother them.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
That was just the rule. And if you did bother them,
or you forgot.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Your lines, or you do all these things, you wouldn't
last long because you get there's a lot of people
that would take would take.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Your job from you, a lot of kids.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So the other movie that I really had fun with
was The Bishop's Wife. It was nominated for an Academy
Award and it didn't didn't win an Academy Award, but
it was a wonderful film. I mean, it's wonderful life.
(12:24):
Was nominated for five Academy Awards and it didn't win anything,
and so it got special mention for the making of
the snow.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
That was it and that was ivory soap flakes that Frank.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Kapra actually mixed him together with fau mite and made
the solution himself. He actually had a degree in chemical engineering,
and so he made that snow. He created it, and
they still use that technique in some of the movies today.
It was pretty remarkable because before that the snow had
(12:58):
been cornflakes braided with kind of a white concoction, and.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
The problem was they.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Crunched when you stepped on them, and Frank Capra wanted
silent snow, so that's how they got the silent snow.
But if you'll notice, and it's wonderful life, when George
is on the bridge and he jumps in to save clearance,
there's all this soap SuDS.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Around in the water.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It's all over where it goes all over their faces.
When George pulls him out, it's all over their faces.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
So it's kind of a funny thing.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And the guy that's in the bridge keeper house he
comes out and he's got this flashlight. Now it's an
ordinary flashlight, just you know, regular, and he shines it
down on them and it's like a beam from heaven,
you know, it's this giant beam coming down on a
You know, you don't pay attention to things like that
when you're watching the movie, but I think it's a
(13:57):
lot of fun to kind of think about things like that.
The movie was shot in the hot, hot summertime, and
it only took three months to shoot the film. They
started in April and they finished up the end of July,
and it.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Was beastly hot, really, but the.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Inside part of the bridge was done on a stage
and they were able to keep that area fairly cool.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So they had a lot of crushed ice for.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Snow that they used as well, you know, on the
sides of the road and things like that on the roads,
and that was all shot inside a stage. There was
a location on the studio ranch and Ensino for all
the outside scenes and the buildings and things like that,
(14:53):
but for the most part, the whole thing was shot
on a stage or in the back lot. That's where
the water was was built in the back lot, and
so it was all right there. But it was really
hot and we were wearing winter clothes. And when there's
a scene where Jimmy Sewart gets a real close up
(15:15):
as his eyes are big and you can see the.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Sweat running off his face. It's because he's hot. He's
really hot with his wool scratchy suit on, and it's like.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Ninety some degrees and that was extreme weather for La
at the time. So working with Capra was a dream.
He was very particular, He was meticulous. He handpicked everybody
that was in that movie, even the extras, he handpicked them.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
There was a young woman who was.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
A what do you call it?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
In The Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
She was one of the little people, but she was
just a young girl and she danced and ended up
having a dance career as a teacher, and so she
was brought on the set for Its Wonderful Life when
they had the scene where they're dancing at the high
(16:16):
school gymnasium. So she came and she taught all the
kids how to do the Charleston. And her name was
Priscilla Montgomery, and well it is she's still with us.
But she had on a purple dress, and so she
was the first person to jump in the pool. So
(16:41):
she got fifty dollars extra tacked onto her check because
she was the first one, and the other kids that
jumped in got twenty five dollars for jumping in.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
And We've been listening to Carolyn Grime share the stories
of being on set as a child actress in the West,
places like Albuquerque, in some of our great national parks,
and also in the back lots of Burbank and Insino,
making its a wonderful life. And who would have known.
I did not and could not have imagined that was
(17:13):
all done in a back lot. And my goodness to
hear about Frank Capra, and I've read so much about
how he worked, and my goodness, every detail down to
not only interviewing the children actors, but hand picking the
extras and directors. My goodness, the good ones and the
great ones. The details matter more of Carolyn Grimes, her
(17:33):
stories about It's a wonderful life, and so much more
here on our American stories. And we returned to our
(18:09):
American stories and Carolyn Grimes talking about It's a Wonderful life.
The movie she started is Jimmy Stewart's Daughter Zuzu. She
was discussing the dance competition at Bedford Falls High School
and how the young actors were taught to Charleston from
one of the girls who played one of the munchkins
in the Wizard of Oz the actors turned dance instructor,
(18:30):
Priscilla Montgomery earned an extra fifty dollars for being the
first to jump into the swimming pool during the dance scene,
but she quickly found out that that money was not
easy money. Here again is Carolyn Grimes.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But she had this purple beaded dress on and when
she jumped in.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
She told me that the weight from these beads pulled
her down under.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And she said it was all she could do to
keep her head above water because it was so heavy,
and they had to help her get out because she
couldn't get out on her own. She couldn't pull herself
out because the dress was so heavy beated. So it
was an interesting story. Oh my goodness, there are so
many interesting stories.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
So I enjoyed doing all these movies.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And I was taught that these people were normal, ordinary folks.
These stars were not I mean, they weren't stars. I
mean I didn't even know what a star was.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
My mother father.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Kept me in the dark about a lot of things
like that so that I would act normal, I guess.
So I just thought they were my friends. I had
no idea that these were stars.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
So I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
And then about the time I did The Bishop's Wife
with Carrie Grant, Loretty Young and David Nevin, my mother
started getting sick.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And that's when.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
I realiz is that my life was going to take
a different path, because she had early onset Alzheimer's and
she started slipping and it took her five years, but
she died when I was fourteen.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So during that time, it was hard for.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
My father to be with me on the set. He
was a manager of a safe boy store, and he
had to hire somebody to take me to an interview,
and then he'd have to hire somebody to be my
guardian on this stage if I got a job, and
so he wasn't that interested in having me in the
movies anyway. And of course by that time I discovered boys,
(20:40):
and so I wasn't that greatly interested in acting either.
So when I was fourteen, my mom died, and then
a year later my dad was killed in a car accident,
so my life kind of changed. At that point. I
was an orphan, so the court took over because my
(21:01):
father didn't leave a will, So I had a mean
aunt and uncle from Missouri. It was my father's brother
and his horrible, mean wife. They came out and they
got me, and they.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Took me back to a little town in Missouri. I'd
gone to LA High.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
There were nine hundred kids in my class at LA High.
There were eight hundred people in the whole town, so.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I had thirty six other kids in my class in
my high school.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
But you know, I thought I'd been sent to hell,
and I didn't think I would recover from that. And
I tried every way possible to think of how I
could run away. But I didn't have any money, and
I didn't have any way to get out, and I
didn't have any anybody.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
To help me with that.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So she commandeered all my mail, so I couldn't ask
for help for anybody from anybody in California. And eventually
she stopped all the communication from California, so I couldn't
talk to any of my friends or anything that I
had grown up with over the years. After about a year,
(22:14):
I realized that these people in that town, my teachers,
the merchants, my friends at school, everyone really rallied around me,
and they knew this woman was the devil, my aunt,
and they made me realize that there are loving and
(22:35):
caring people in this world, and that's when I decided
that I never wanted to go back to Hollywood again,
because it's kind of dog eat dog, and people take
advantage of you and they use you. And I can
see how this happened after I saw what real people
were about, and.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
They had no reason.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
They didn't want anything out of our relationship like they
did in California.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Then all they wanted was to give love and be friends.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And so I never went back to California after that.
Of course, I lost all contact. My hand had made
me do that. But I graduated and high school, went
to college, and I became a medical technologist woh and
then I had kids, and then I lost a husband
(23:27):
to deer hunting, and then I remarried and I was
married to the second one for twenty five years and
he died of cancer. And in that process I had
two kids. He had three, and then we had two together.
So I raised seven kids, and one of the children
(23:49):
that we had together, my son did take his own
life when he was eighteen, and that was probably the
worst experience that I will have in my life, and
it hangs over me like a cloud forever. It's a
horrible way to lose a child, but I did okay,
(24:12):
and my husband was getting sick. And there was somebody
that knocked on my door in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And they said, have you ever have you?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Are you that kid, that Zuzu kid that was in
the movie It's a Wonderful Life? And I said, well, yeah,
I was her, and they said, well, can.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
We have an interview? And I thought okay.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So I went down in the basement and drug up
all my memorabilia so I could show them all the
movies and stuff. And so it happened again the following week,
and it kept happening and I thought, you know, gee,
this is weird.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And so then I started.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Getting fan mail and I thought, holy cow, what's going
on here.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I don't understand this.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So I guess I'd better sit down and watch that film.
I had never seen the film It's a Wonderful Life
until I was forty years old.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I was raising kids. I had seven kids to raise.
I lived in the kitchen, the car, and the laundry room.
That was my life.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So you know, every once in a while at night
i'd catch Johnny Carson, but that was about it. I
didn't watch TV, so I had not seen the film.
I have to tell you, I did go to the premiere.
Granted I saw it when I was forty years old
for the first time. And you know why because I
fell asleep at the opening.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So there you go. I was six years old, you know,
long night, dude. I remember, I remember going it. I
got to talk on the radio. That was big stuff,
you know.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Well, after I saw it, that made my life different,
that's for sure. It affected me, just like it does
everybody else. You cry, you laugh, you feel good, you
feel sad, but in the end, it's a grateful experience
that you have gone through and you've gotten a lot
out of it.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
So I realized what the movie was.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And about that time, Jimmy Stewart had people coming to
him and saying, you know what happened to that little
girl Zuzu?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
And we've been listening to Carolyn Grimes tell her story.
My goodness, what a turn it took when she was fourteen,
first losing her mom and then at fifteen her dad
dying in a car accident with no will and came
the adopted parents from Assia, small town and a really, really,
really mean aunt. But then she learned that this small
(26:56):
town rallied around her. There were good people every where,
but that knock on the door comes, and finally she's
reconnected to that life, her earlier life, and to the
film It's a Wonderful Life, which she'd never seen. She
fell asleep at the premiere. When we come back, what
happens next with Carolyn Grimes? Here on our American stories
(27:36):
and we continue with our American Stories. In nineteen eighty,
Carolyn Grimes was visited by a reporter asking if she
played Jimmy Stewart's daughter in the nineteen forty six Christmas
classic It's a Wonderful Life. This was the first of
many interactions with people wanting to know what happened to
the six year old girl who played Zuzu Bailey. So
(27:59):
the forty year old Carolyn decided to sit down and
watch It's a Wonderful Life for the very first time,
to see what all the fuss was about. Here again
is Carolyn Grime About.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That time Jimmy Stewart had people coming to him and saying,
you know what happened to that little girl, Zuzu, And
he had one of these secretaries find me. This all
happened in nineteen eighty. It was like, Wow, this is
a different world. And so that's when things started happening.
(28:32):
And I saw the movie. I knew the messages in
the movie were wonderful, and I wanted to go out
and help spread this positive messages that the film has
to offer.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
So I started doing a.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Lot of speaking and just appearances locally because I was
still raising kids. But in nineteen ninety three, the Target
company got together and they decided to promote its One
Full Life for their Christmas in their stores that year.
So they got up the Bailey Kids together. That was
(29:07):
the reunion of the Bailey Kids, and so we went
all around on a tour. They took us everywhere to
all their Target stores and it was just a blast.
And that's when I started meeting people. You know, they
would go through the autograph line and they would share
with you their stories and they would share with you
(29:28):
how that movie had affected their lives. A lot of
them had been on the bridge and that movie saved
their lives, and the messages from that film lived within
their hearts. And I realized then that this was something
that I had to do. So I loved being on
the road, and I've been on the road ever since,
(29:52):
travel everywhere, and then I started It's Wonderful Life Festival
in Seneca Falls twenty years ago. It's just the best
experience you could ever have.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
So the second weekend in December and it's in Seneca Falls,
New York, and it's all about It's a Wonderful Life.
It's great, it's really wonderful. There are so many people
who come and inquire in Bedford Falls or Seneca Falls
about the film. So we started a museum in twenty ten,
(30:27):
and it's a Wonderful Life museum. It's the only museum
in the country that celebrates a black and white movie.
And it's a great little place to go in Seneca Falls.
And that's another reason to go to the festival is
because this wonderful museum. It's got a lot of great
stuff in it, and people come and they enjoy every
(30:50):
bit of it. And we have thousands and thousands that
go through it and they love the film so much.
It's a great experience. So I hope everyone can make it,
certainly at least one time in their life. And of
course I've gone through, you know, meeting a lot of
(31:13):
the cast members from the film and as they check
out saying goodbye and they get their wings. So we're
kind of a small number. Now we have Jimmy Hawkins
who played Little Tommy, and Carol Coombs Mueller who played Janey,
who played the piano.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Jimmy was the kid who burked, and I was still
with us.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And there was a twins that played the baby of Pete.
When he's in the height or the playpen, she picks
him up and that's pet Well, the twins are still alive,
and also the baby that played Janey is still alive.
(32:05):
And then there's another fellow that's alive, and he was
in the beginning scene where the boys are sliding down
the heel and the ice, and we call him shovel Boy.
And he really just started becoming active with us at
the festival and so he's there every year now. Then
(32:31):
Virginia Patton Moss, who played Harry Bailey's wife, she is
still with us, yeah, and she I think she's ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
But it's great.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So we have a lot of fun during the festival
and I'm usually on the road from October through December
through Christmas and then I mean I'm gone every weekend someplace.
So it's wonderful, have the best time. I meet so
many wonderful people. It's just been the best thing that
(33:05):
ever happened to my life. And I'm thrilled and honored
to be that little girl that played Zuzu. I had
a lot of fun filming with Jimmy Stewart, and I
actually think that for me, my favorite part was the
pedal scene. Hi, Baddy, what happened to you?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I want a flower?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Oh no, where do you think you're going?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
What did my f I'll give that out of the flower,
I'll give it a drink. No, Daddy, hey get.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Together.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Of course I saw him put the pedals in his pocket,
and Frank Kaeper did not change that. You know, you
don't shoot a scene just once, you do it twenty times,
especially because he had a huge amount.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Of extra footage.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But Capra left it that in there because he wanted
I wanted to show that I knew my daddy wasn't perfect,
but I loved him very much, so that's why he
left it in there. And then I started a whisper.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
I give the flower a drink. I will you do
something for me? Some sleep?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I know, I know?
Speaker 3 (34:34):
And then you can dream about it and I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh God, career.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
I have no clue why I started to whisper, I
want to give it a drink. I want to give
my flower a drink.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Why I whispered, I have no clue, because he didn't
tell me to do that.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
But he liked that too, so that was fun.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
And then, of course the scene where I'm coming down
the stairs on Jimmy Stewart's back, Oh my gosh. When
I was on the stairs on his back, Larry Simms,
who played Pete, well, he's behind us and he's lifting
my rump so that I'm giving it, you know, so
I'm not falling off his back.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
And then when he comes down the stairs, he's got
Mary's hand in his left hand.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And he's got Tommy under his right arm, and I'm
hanging on his back, literally his neck, with my arms
and my legs wrapped around him like a little frog.
And it's just that was quiet experience. And of course
we didn't do that just once either. We did it
many times.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
But I always prayed that I wouldn't fall off of him.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And he was very tall, he was six feet four,
so I was way up there in the air. But
it was great memories, great memories. Most people ask me
the question, what was it like working with Jimmy Stewart?
(36:04):
And I loved working with Jimmy Stewart.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
He was kind, he was.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Generous, and after he found me in nineteen eighty, we
became friends and we did a couple of things together,
and it was really nice to have him in my life.
The other thing I think was his gentleness. He was
very gentle with me, and I appreciate that very much.
(36:30):
So when I said the line that everybody remembers and
the movies remembered before, for for sure, I had no
idea that that line would become a piece of film history.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
And it truly has.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's everywhere, and it's a line that people will always
remember forever. And I'm blessed to be able to say that.
Daddy said, every time a bell rings, an angel gets
his wings. So I wish everyone would really watch the
(37:10):
film every Christmas. It's become a tradition and a lot
of homes, and I think that it gives a little
bit of positive feelings and it gives a little bit
of hope for all of us. If we watch that
movie every year at.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Christmas, and an amen to that, a terrific job on
the production by Greg Hangler, and a special thanks to
Carolyn Grimes for her storytelling. And by the way, to
go to or visit the It's a Wonderful Life Festival,
You're going to go to Seneca Falls, New York, a
beautiful part of this country. It's every year in early
(37:44):
December and go to Wonderfulifemuseum dot com to find out
more about the museum. And boy, what Carolyn learned when
Target took the Bailey Kids on the road. He said,
together we learned the stories of so many people, and
the film saved lives, and we hope we do the
same here at our American Stories, which tell positive stories
(38:07):
for a good and beautiful country. The story of Caroline
Grimes and It's a Wonderful Life here on our American
Stories
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