April 18, 2024 • 12 mins
This week we have a special bonus conversation with Matthew Buccelli, author of the newsletter ParentSounds. Ophira chats with Matthew about parental leave in Germany and his career as a kindergarten DJ.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, parenting is a jokesters, I'm trying that one out.
I'm back with a Thursday snack episode for you. My
guest is joining me all the way from Berlin. Yeah,
in Germany, not like Berlin, Iowa, Berlin, Germany. He's a dad.
He's the editor of Parenting Sounds, a newsletter about trying
to balance creative joy with the joys of family life.
(00:25):
As I say those words, I laugh. And he is
also the founder and organizer of Berlin kinder Rave. What
Matthew Boucelli, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm doing great and first and foremost so I want
to thank you for having me on. I've listened to
several episodes of Parenting as a joke.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I've laughed a lot. I haven't cried yet, but good
maybe that's coming.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh I'll send you that. I'll send you a couple
of criers. Soason, you're a transplant. You're not a born
and raised Berliner.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No, I'm actually also a New Yorker, at least a
New York state Berlina. Now since twenty sixteen, there are
people here who will never consider me a local.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And that's oh yeah, yeah, So why did you move?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
The long story short, which is also a bit of
an oversimplification, is I met a wonderful half German woman,
so that's how I ended up Germany.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
And you have kids, and we.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Have kids, so right, like nothing makes you lay down roots,
as many listeners of this podcast will not like having
a child or children.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And yeah, now we're in it. I mean home is
where your daycare is.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Right right, So what are the names and ages of
your kids?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So I have a three and a half year old
that's Maya, born right in the heart of the first
COVID wave Sumber twenty twenty. Yeah, and then my son
is he's almost one and a half Sober twenty twenty two,
and his name is Camino.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, so you have little kids, you are working full time,
you do this parent focused newsletter. But before I get
to that, tell me about Berlin kinder Race.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So it all kind of started as a New Year's resolution.
I guess it was beginning of twenty twenty two. My
new Year's resolution was I wanted to fulfill what had
been a long term dream at that point since moving
to Berlin, of learning how to DJ. So, as you
could see, my cliche is just like a cliche is
just growing. So I'm like, all right, djaying, how do
(02:31):
I do this? You know a lot of people when
they're just starting out, they stay out super late, you know,
they do kind of like the nightlife, networking again, all
these things not really an option for me in my
position at that time. So I also noticed that there's
kind of like a very particular form of like daytime
(02:52):
I won't even say parties, just like getting together in Berlin,
which is really just like people in a park or
in the woods, or next to a lake or under
a bridge who knows where, in a parking lot everywhere,
just like there's a DJ setup and people are just
like informally raving, you know, and it's actually quite wholesome.
(03:13):
I mean there's also a non wholesome version. But both
before and after having kids, we found ourselves at these
kinds of get togethers, and you know, it always like it.
There was like always a family friendly vibe. You know,
it's like adults hanging out with hula hoops and sparkly
things and dancing around at techno music and it's like, yeah,
(03:34):
you can, you can bring your.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Kid there too.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I thought that maybe we could do kind of like
a family friendly version of this that would be even
more sort of like targeted toward parents, toward people with kids.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
And that's really where the idea of the kinderred was born.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Silent right right, it's like full on to your DJing
and people are dancing and hanging where.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
At like a normal rave, like the music will be
really blasting, yeah, to you know, levels which would be
on comfortable for little kids.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We like get a really nice sound system and only
turn it halfway up.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Okay, So I have some notions of what life is
like raising kids in Germany versus the United States, and
I would say they're like partially an educated things I
actually know, but also I just have some feelings and
notions that are probably not true, just some utopian ideas.
So let me ask you. Now, I know I'm talking
(04:28):
about Northern Europe policies, not all of Europe. So but
do you think that the Northern Europe policies for families
are far better than the United States?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I mean, objectively, I'd have to say, it's not really
a question there.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Do you think there's anything better about the United States
for kids anything?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
In my case, what would be maybe a little bit
better is you know, some of the people that I
love most in the in the whole world are are
in the US, And I think, what kind of is hard? Sorry,
living in a place with kids that's different from where
you grew up.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
My three year old just walking, I'm a little bit distracted.
You have no problem living in a place, and she's
going to join our.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
View.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
WHOA.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
One thing when you have kids is you you tap
into all kinds of aspects of your roots, right and
it's like you do all the things that you did
when you were a kid, or you know, hopefully you
had an upbringing where you know certain traditions that you
want to carry on for your own children. People you
love that you want to spend time with your kids,
et cetera, et cetera. And it does get harder to
(05:40):
do that when you live an ocean away.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Got it. So none of none of the actual place,
just the people.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I'm trying to be diplomatic, don't.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Be diplomatic, be honest.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
There are a lot of aspects of American culture honestly
that I that I do miss.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
People are a lot outwardly friendlier. Say that for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
There is something nice about people just like saying hi
to you instead of just like staring at you with
a frown.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Okay, I totally hear you on that. So then going
back to what you have now as a parent in
Northern Europe. First, just just to really hit the nail
on this one, what is the maternity and parental paternity
leave policy.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, so when my first daughter was born, I took
two months of paternity leave paid. It goes up to
two thirds of your salary or eighteen hundred euros a month,
whichever is more.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
It caps out at like eighteen hundred euros per month.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
The policy is basically that you have fourteen months of
that to split however you want between the couple for
both kids. My wife took she took a year the
first time, and I think nine months the second time.
I took two years the first time and three months
a second time, and then no four months the second time,
and we kind of, you know, split the rest of it.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
And actually a lot of people will use their.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Time in a site or parenting time, which is literally
the translation.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Families to parent time. People will take their parent time
and they will go in and travel.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
We actually did that for the second kid, as we
went on a big trip as a family with our
new family of four last winter?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Where did you go?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Southeast Asia? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
We spent almost three months in Southeast Asia. We're so
incredibly lucky to have what we have here, and yet
still I find it so hard to have two kids
under the age of five.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So when you say that, like and even though with
these you know, policies that offer a lot of support,
it is still super hard. I totally one hear you.
But for you, what are just two things that you
find are really hard about the particular ages that you're
dealing with as a parent and probably as a working parent.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
My mom was visiting me recently and I was like,
I have two siblings.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
It's like, how did you do this with three of us?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
She's like, yeah, I know, that's that's what everyone does.
They just shrug.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
She was just like, I don't know, I just like
I had to.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
She's like witnessing all these yeah, exactly, She's just witnessing
all these like extremely stressful situations in our in our
household pitch.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
When she comes, she stays for you know, three weeks
or more, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Was this were we like this? You know, like how
did we survive? And She's like, I don't know, you
just just blocked.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Would you say that are you a strict parent at all?
Would you feel like you're the strict one.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That's a hard question to answer. I think we're both
strict in different ways. I grew up with an Italian
American father who was the first of his family to
go to college, and like, I had this interesting situation
where like he was from this working class Italian and background,
but he was also the principal of the like progressive
(09:05):
school that I went to that didn't give grades. So
it's like have him was coming from like the background
of like his mom who worked at a restaurant and
his father was a postal worker who like split up
and got back together his whole childhood. And then have
him was coming from this environment that like wanted to,
(09:26):
you know, have a super like progressive way of raising
his right.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think you really learn a lot about yourself when
you become a parent and discover traumas and various demons.
Even that she's just you're like, where did that even
come from? Yeah, you get into so many situations where
you're just like it's eight PM and my three year
(09:54):
old won't put her night pants on?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I right? How am I even keep my head above water?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Now when you say night pants, do you mean pajamas?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Are nights pajamas? It's funny we do? Actually, yeah, why
don't we use pajamas? That's strange. It's not even like
night It's something that they say in Germany. We just
say night pants. It's a funny thing.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Like I just pictured like a pair of jeans, like
night jeans. Do you put on your night jeans?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Your night dnim superstylis.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Is there a particular piece of pop culture from your
childhood that you are hoping that your kids fall in
love with? Like I know that you have. There's an
entire other world of you know, pop culture that you
are probably that I don't even know anything about, that
you guys have, and then of course you consume a
ton from America because that's the way it goes.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I have been trying for like a year to get
my daughter to watch.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Looney Tunes and she just doesn't like it. It's not interested.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
But funnily enough, the show that she loves the most
right now is Paw Patrol, which is an American.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh, we have talked a lot about Pop Patrol on
this show, because it's a it is extremely popular.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I can talk your ear off about Pop Patrol. I've
seen most of those episodes at this point.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Let me tell you. I remember the day that my son,
you know, the age out of it, but I remember
that the moment I think he was five, and he
turned to me and said they they solved the same
problem all the time, and I'm like, we're almost out
of this if you if you figure that out, we're
almost out of this. Let me ask you about this.
(11:30):
Do your kids watch Sandman before they go to bed
each night, or Sandmon or whatever that is. Do what
I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
About, I don't actually is that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I was told I was yes, I was told it
was a German thing, that there's some television program that
little kids for generations of tell that television existed watch
right before they go to bed, and it's like a
Sandman that sprinkles sand in their eye.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
And then I'm gonna look into I don't actually know
zan Man.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Very good, so I will let you go into your
soiree of the wind down bedtime routine. All right, Thank
you so much, Thank you so much, And everyone should,
of course check out your newsletter parent Sounds, where you
can both hear, read, and enjoy interviews and chats and
content all about what it is like to be a
(12:23):
parent in this day and age, doesn't matter where you live.
Thanks so much. Enjoy all your social services on my behalf.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Thank you boy.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Hey, let's keep pushing for them to hopefully cross the
Atlantic sooner other than later.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Sounds good.
Hey, parenting is a jokesters, I'm trying that one out.
I'm back with a Thursday snack episode for you. My
guest is joining me all the way from Berlin. Yeah,
in Germany, not like Berlin, Iowa, Berlin, Germany. He's a dad.
He's the editor of Parenting Sounds, a newsletter about trying
to balance creative joy with the joys of family life.
(00:25):
As I say those words, I laugh. And he is
also the founder and organizer of Berlin kinder Rave. What
Matthew Boucelli, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm doing great and first and foremost so I want
to thank you for having me on. I've listened to
several episodes of Parenting as a joke.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I've laughed a lot. I haven't cried yet, but good
maybe that's coming.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh I'll send you that. I'll send you a couple
of criers. Soason, you're a transplant. You're not a born
and raised Berliner.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
No, I'm actually also a New Yorker, at least a
New York state Berlina. Now since twenty sixteen, there are
people here who will never consider me a local.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And that's oh yeah, yeah, So why did you move?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
The long story short, which is also a bit of
an oversimplification, is I met a wonderful half German woman,
so that's how I ended up Germany.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
And you have kids, and we.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Have kids, so right, like nothing makes you lay down roots,
as many listeners of this podcast will not like having
a child or children.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And yeah, now we're in it. I mean home is
where your daycare is.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Right right, So what are the names and ages of
your kids?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So I have a three and a half year old
that's Maya, born right in the heart of the first
COVID wave Sumber twenty twenty. Yeah, and then my son
is he's almost one and a half Sober twenty twenty two,
and his name is Camino.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, so you have little kids, you are working full time,
you do this parent focused newsletter. But before I get
to that, tell me about Berlin kinder Race.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So it all kind of started as a New Year's resolution.
I guess it was beginning of twenty twenty two. My
new Year's resolution was I wanted to fulfill what had
been a long term dream at that point since moving
to Berlin, of learning how to DJ. So, as you
could see, my cliche is just like a cliche is
just growing. So I'm like, all right, djaying, how do
(02:31):
I do this? You know a lot of people when
they're just starting out, they stay out super late, you know,
they do kind of like the nightlife, networking again, all
these things not really an option for me in my
position at that time. So I also noticed that there's
kind of like a very particular form of like daytime
(02:52):
I won't even say parties, just like getting together in Berlin,
which is really just like people in a park or
in the woods, or next to a lake or under
a bridge who knows where, in a parking lot everywhere,
just like there's a DJ setup and people are just
like informally raving, you know, and it's actually quite wholesome.
(03:13):
I mean there's also a non wholesome version. But both
before and after having kids, we found ourselves at these
kinds of get togethers, and you know, it always like it.
There was like always a family friendly vibe. You know,
it's like adults hanging out with hula hoops and sparkly
things and dancing around at techno music and it's like, yeah,
(03:34):
you can, you can bring your.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Kid there too.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I thought that maybe we could do kind of like
a family friendly version of this that would be even
more sort of like targeted toward parents, toward people with kids.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
And that's really where the idea of the kinderred was born.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Silent right right, it's like full on to your DJing
and people are dancing and hanging where.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
At like a normal rave, like the music will be
really blasting, yeah, to you know, levels which would be
on comfortable for little kids.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We like get a really nice sound system and only
turn it halfway up.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Okay, So I have some notions of what life is
like raising kids in Germany versus the United States, and
I would say they're like partially an educated things I
actually know, but also I just have some feelings and
notions that are probably not true, just some utopian ideas.
So let me ask you. Now, I know I'm talking
(04:28):
about Northern Europe policies, not all of Europe. So but
do you think that the Northern Europe policies for families
are far better than the United States?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I mean, objectively, I'd have to say, it's not really
a question there.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Do you think there's anything better about the United States
for kids anything?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
In my case, what would be maybe a little bit
better is you know, some of the people that I
love most in the in the whole world are are
in the US, And I think, what kind of is hard? Sorry,
living in a place with kids that's different from where
you grew up.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
My three year old just walking, I'm a little bit distracted.
You have no problem living in a place, and she's
going to join our.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
View.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
WHOA.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
One thing when you have kids is you you tap
into all kinds of aspects of your roots, right and
it's like you do all the things that you did
when you were a kid, or you know, hopefully you
had an upbringing where you know certain traditions that you
want to carry on for your own children. People you
love that you want to spend time with your kids,
et cetera, et cetera. And it does get harder to
(05:40):
do that when you live an ocean away.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Got it. So none of none of the actual place,
just the people.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I'm trying to be diplomatic, don't.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Be diplomatic, be honest.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
There are a lot of aspects of American culture honestly
that I that I do miss.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
People are a lot outwardly friendlier. Say that for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
There is something nice about people just like saying hi
to you instead of just like staring at you with
a frown.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Okay, I totally hear you on that. So then going
back to what you have now as a parent in
Northern Europe. First, just just to really hit the nail
on this one, what is the maternity and parental paternity
leave policy.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, so when my first daughter was born, I took
two months of paternity leave paid. It goes up to
two thirds of your salary or eighteen hundred euros a month,
whichever is more.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
It caps out at like eighteen hundred euros per month.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
The policy is basically that you have fourteen months of
that to split however you want between the couple for
both kids. My wife took she took a year the
first time, and I think nine months the second time.
I took two years the first time and three months
a second time, and then no four months the second time,
and we kind of, you know, split the rest of it.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
And actually a lot of people will use their.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Time in a site or parenting time, which is literally
the translation.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Families to parent time. People will take their parent time
and they will go in and travel.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
We actually did that for the second kid, as we
went on a big trip as a family with our
new family of four last winter?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Where did you go?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Southeast Asia? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
We spent almost three months in Southeast Asia. We're so
incredibly lucky to have what we have here, and yet
still I find it so hard to have two kids
under the age of five.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So when you say that, like and even though with
these you know, policies that offer a lot of support,
it is still super hard. I totally one hear you.
But for you, what are just two things that you
find are really hard about the particular ages that you're
dealing with as a parent and probably as a working parent.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
My mom was visiting me recently and I was like,
I have two siblings.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
It's like, how did you do this with three of us?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
She's like, yeah, I know, that's that's what everyone does.
They just shrug.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
She was just like, I don't know, I just like
I had to.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
She's like witnessing all these yeah, exactly, She's just witnessing
all these like extremely stressful situations in our in our
household pitch.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
When she comes, she stays for you know, three weeks
or more, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Was this were we like this? You know, like how
did we survive? And She's like, I don't know, you
just just blocked.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Would you say that are you a strict parent at all?
Would you feel like you're the strict one.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That's a hard question to answer. I think we're both
strict in different ways. I grew up with an Italian
American father who was the first of his family to
go to college, and like, I had this interesting situation
where like he was from this working class Italian and background,
but he was also the principal of the like progressive
(09:05):
school that I went to that didn't give grades. So
it's like have him was coming from like the background
of like his mom who worked at a restaurant and
his father was a postal worker who like split up
and got back together his whole childhood. And then have
him was coming from this environment that like wanted to,
(09:26):
you know, have a super like progressive way of raising
his right.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I think you really learn a lot about yourself when
you become a parent and discover traumas and various demons.
Even that she's just you're like, where did that even
come from? Yeah, you get into so many situations where
you're just like it's eight PM and my three year
(09:54):
old won't put her night pants on?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I right? How am I even keep my head above water?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Now when you say night pants, do you mean pajamas?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Are nights pajamas? It's funny we do? Actually, yeah, why
don't we use pajamas? That's strange. It's not even like
night It's something that they say in Germany. We just
say night pants. It's a funny thing.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Like I just pictured like a pair of jeans, like
night jeans. Do you put on your night jeans?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Your night dnim superstylis.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Is there a particular piece of pop culture from your
childhood that you are hoping that your kids fall in
love with? Like I know that you have. There's an
entire other world of you know, pop culture that you
are probably that I don't even know anything about, that
you guys have, and then of course you consume a
ton from America because that's the way it goes.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I have been trying for like a year to get
my daughter to watch.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Looney Tunes and she just doesn't like it. It's not interested.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
But funnily enough, the show that she loves the most
right now is Paw Patrol, which is an American.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh, we have talked a lot about Pop Patrol on
this show, because it's a it is extremely popular.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I can talk your ear off about Pop Patrol. I've
seen most of those episodes at this point.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Let me tell you. I remember the day that my son,
you know, the age out of it, but I remember
that the moment I think he was five, and he
turned to me and said they they solved the same
problem all the time, and I'm like, we're almost out
of this if you if you figure that out, we're
almost out of this. Let me ask you about this.
(11:30):
Do your kids watch Sandman before they go to bed
each night, or Sandmon or whatever that is. Do what
I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
About, I don't actually is that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I was told I was yes, I was told it
was a German thing, that there's some television program that
little kids for generations of tell that television existed watch
right before they go to bed, and it's like a
Sandman that sprinkles sand in their eye.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
And then I'm gonna look into I don't actually know
zan Man.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Very good, so I will let you go into your
soiree of the wind down bedtime routine. All right, Thank
you so much, Thank you so much, And everyone should,
of course check out your newsletter parent Sounds, where you
can both hear, read, and enjoy interviews and chats and
content all about what it is like to be a
(12:23):
parent in this day and age, doesn't matter where you live.
Thanks so much. Enjoy all your social services on my behalf.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Thank you boy.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Hey, let's keep pushing for them to hopefully cross the
Atlantic sooner other than later.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Sounds good.
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