The Match & The Merger

It has been quite an eventful few days in the golf world. Paige and Sam recap Paige’s match vs. Jerry Kelly at Geneva National (that was supposed to be vs. John Daly), and discuss everything we know about the PGA Tour merger with LIV Golf and the PIF. The two read comments from listeners, give their takes, I Said What I Said, and more!

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Episode Transcript

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This is Playing Around with Page Renee. Hey everyone, welcome
back to the Playing Round podcast. You're with Page and
Sam and we have had probably the most eventful couple

(00:49):
days of our entire lives. So I had a match
against Jerry Kelly. It was supposed to be John Daily
and we're like, tee, it's gonna be the biggest drama
of the week, and then oh no, I'm flying home
and all of a sudden, the biggest bombshell in golf
history drops in. The PGA Tour and Live are merging together,

(01:11):
so we're going to talk about both.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
But yeah, Sam, how was your travel day? Yesterday?

Speaker 4 (01:16):
My travel day started with Wyatt, someone on our team goes,
I'm here to pick you up, and all of a sudden,
I'm getting text text text text texts at the same
time about this merger, and I'm like, I need a second, Like,
give me a second, I'll be I don't know what's
happening your textingv We're like all texting each other. I
mean we're exhausted. I'm like, I can't read another paragraph,
Like I'm so tired. I'm exhausted. I don't know about you.

(01:40):
But this whole thing, the whole lasts like four days,
just been a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
It's like one of those.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Things where it's like bad things happen in bunches, and
it's not that it's bad. It's just been like a
like stressful event, stressful event after stressful event. So we'll
talk about the Booty Versus Beast match first, because that
was something we've been looking forward to for.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
A very long time.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
It has been the works for I want to say
potentially over a year now.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's been something that we've been wanting to do.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
We've been promoting it, super excited about it, and the
morning of, it's eight o'clock, get a text and it's hey,
So John Daly is unable to play and even right
around because of a knee injury. So we're gonna have

(02:32):
Jerry Kelly fill in. Luckily, Luckily he's from Wisconsin. The
match was at Geneva National in Wisconsin. It's a beautiful,
beautiful location, three golf courses there.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
We played the player.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Course and he was gracious enough to fill in come out.
I think he drove about an hour to get there
that morning, and everything was just flying so quickly on
trying to figure that out. And I really have to
give a massive shout out to my team, the staff
at Geneva National, and everyone involved in this event because

(03:09):
we didn't.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Know what to do.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
There were over two thousand people who were coming to
this match, some from out of state, and we just
wanted to make it the most amazing event possible and
to do everything we could, and we just put all
the pieces together kind of last second, and it was
a whirlwind of a morning to try to fully fully

(03:34):
figure all of this out, but it ended up being
an amazing day. We changed the format up so it
wasn't a competition because Jerry Kelly is playing some incredible
golf and we're going to talk about that in a second.
And so instead of a head to head match, we
decided to do Bertie's for charity. So two k was

(03:55):
donated for every birdy that we made, and I think
it was like droupol for eagles, which comes into play
because freaking Jerry freaking Kelly. He told this story where
when he first started out in his career, he had
to fill in for John Daily during a pro am
and one of his playing partners didn't know who Jerry

(04:17):
Kelly was.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
It's like very beginning of his career, and.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
He goes, God, we got to play with Jerry fucking
Kelly today.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
I'm so disappointed. I want to play with John Daily.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
And Jerry overhears that walks up when he goes, hey,
I'm Jerry fucking Kelly. And he tells that story on
the first he and now everyone knows him as JFK
and he is such a great personality. But Jerry fucking
Kelly shot unofficially because he says that he doesn't fully

(04:47):
count this a fifty eight or a fifty nine, either
way you want to cut it.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
He shot under sixty. It was the best round of
golf I've ever witnessed.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
And I think what amazed me and I know you
were like walking and playing, so it was a little
bit different. I was on the side, you know, taking
all the cool pictures of you guys. But what amazed
me was how like casual and low key he was
about it, Like he'd be over a shot on a
par three and be like, come on, why did the
band stop, like pump up the music and then hit

(05:20):
it to three feet? I'm like, what what is happening? So,
all things considered, like you said, whirlwind of a morning,
especially on Monday at the morning of the match. But
I think Jerry Kelly was so well received by the crowd.
Everyone knew him, everyone loved him, which from our perspective like, okay,
yeah he's a big name, but in Wisconsin, like he's

(05:40):
a hero, they really love him there.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah he was.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
He was a hero, and so I think it really
could not have gone better all things considered, with the
last minute call in favor that he did for us
and the team agine even national. So it was so
fun to watch both of you guys played a maazing
saying but it was really a long few days, but

(06:04):
a really fun few days. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I mean I had to prepare my game because I
was expecting to play this match and we were going
to stream it and there's a ton of people there,
and because my schedule has been so busy, I don't
have much time to practice. And then the last I
would say two and a half weeks, I've really stepped
it up. I was taking lessons with Jonathan Yarwood, which

(06:27):
I've talked about, and I've made a ton of progress.
But I was nervous to go into this round because
I struggle under pressure. I have a lot of course anxiety,
and I didn't know how it was going to go.
I ended up shooting like around like a sixty six.
I had six birdies, and it felt compared to how

(06:49):
Jerry was playing like an eighty four because he's making
all these putts. But I'm actually proud of the way
that I hit the golf ball. I normally struggle, like
I said, under pressure, and it helped quite well. And
you actually noticed that my swing looked quite different from
previous times that we've played together.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
It looks much more compact, not that you had a
long or like complicated swing, to begin with. But in golf,
as you guys know, if you play like one minor
change can make things look so much more comfortable. And
for you, it looked so much more comfortable. But I'm
curious and I meant to ask you this when we
were there, What do you think about over the ball?

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Like?

Speaker 4 (07:25):
How were you able to trust your swing? Because I
feel like you do trust it more now, but how
are you able to do that in the moment.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
So I talked to Jonathan the morning of because I
was nervous and I never really had like a great
swing thought before. It was mostly just trust your trust
your swing, have good tempo because under pressure I would
get really fast off the golf ball. And so he
gave me a couple tips. One of them was to

(07:54):
write down the type of player you wanted to be.
I think a lot of my issues come from a
lack of confidence, and so having a game plan of knowing, Okay,
I'm going to be an aggressive player, I'm going to
be a confident player. I'm going to focus on these
key things.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
And when I worked.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
With Jonathan, the goal is to play well under pressure.
So we made swing changes that would help me do
so because I've always had never had a bad swing.
I've always had a very athletic swing, and I've just
kind of let myself do what I feel is right.
And so with Jonathan, he didn't want to change that,
but we just made small little correction. So for me,

(08:34):
it was a slow takeaway and I would tend to
kind of grit my club really hard and almost crouch
down and shut the face. It was kind of this
weird trigger move that I would do before I would swing,
and it would set me up in a really bad position.
So now I hover my club so that way I
cannot bend down and crouch down, and I think slow sloss,

(08:55):
like as slow as I could possibly move on the backswing,
and then it's just a bit of like a hinge
and bend with my elbow, and that is all I
was thinking about.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
And then the other thing was swing through it.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
When I get tense, I hit these like knockdown half shots.
And so my goal was to hit full swings all
day long. If I'm gonna miss it, miss it big.
And one thing that you said, because we were talking
about having course anxiety during one of the practice rounds,
we were joking, we were Sam was like my coach.
We were doing like real practice rounds like when we

(09:29):
were junior in college golf. But you said something that
really stuck with me because I said, I just get
so nervous on the tee because I don't know what's
going to happen. You said, who cares? Who cares if
you hit a dobe? Who cares if you you know,
shank it, or who cares? There's a possibility that could happen.
Who cares? And you said that, and I was like, oh, yeah,

(09:50):
you're right, Like I'm actually setting myself up to hit
that shot while I'm trying to guide it instead of
just swinging freely and being like, you know, having that
attitude of what's the worst that could happen, Well, you
lose golf ball, Okay, hit it again.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
Like I mean, it's just it's stuff like that that
I try to tell like my parents, who are weakend golfers,
the same thing, because I think it's a really important
mindset to have of like you're not no offense page,
you're not playing in the US Open with this match
against Jerry Kelly, Like the worst it could happen is
you hit someone in the leg, Like, Okay, they'll be fine,
like it's or like you lose a golf ball you

(10:25):
hit in the water, you get like okay, then you
laugh at yourself and I mean, it's whatever, Like you're
not like, no one's gonna no one's gonna die, no
one's We're not like starting a war. Like it's fine.
It's not that. It's just not that serious. And I
think that that's the only way I've been able to
play golf since college. Just remembering that.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Jerry Kelly said something really interesting on the first team
because I said, Hey, I'm nervous, and Teddy asked him,
do you get nervous and you said absolutely, and Teddy
was like, okay, yeah, you get nervous when you have
a lead, or you're playing these amazic golf courses and
you're trying to win. He's like, no, I will get
nervous for an event like this. I will be nervous
on the first tee, for just a fun little charity match,

(11:03):
I will get nervous. And he's like that's great. He's like,
the day I stop getting nervous is the day I
quit doing this, because it means I don't care. And
he said most people try to ignore their adrenaline. Nerves
is just adrenaline. So with golf, I try to use
that and I use that to my advantage, so I
see it as a positive. I'm going to hit the

(11:24):
ball a little bit farther, I'm gonna hit the ball
a little bit better. I love that feeling. I enjoyed
that feeling, and that's very different from what I've heard
from so many sports psychologists where it's like, Okay.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Now you breathe and you want to get rid.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Of it and you want to stay calm, and I
never did well with that. And when he said that too,
I was like, Okay, yeah, that actually goes with my
other philosophy of trying to like swing big and go
for it.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
And I was crushing the golf ball.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
I was hitting it so far that day, and it
was because I was trying to use the adrenaline and
what Jerry Kelly said. But all in all, it was
a really great day and I want to thank everyone
who was watching the stream on only page, and if
you guys aren't signed up, definitely go check that out
right now.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Because we do a ton of really cool things like that.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
But I mean, Sam Elephant in the room was just
getting bigger and bigger and bigger. We got to talk
about this merger that shook the golf community to its
core yesterday.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
This is the biggest news.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
I want to talk about. Your shot of the week,
Oh my.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Gosh, my shot of the week. Oh man.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
There was actually a lot of pretty decent shots that
I hit. I would say that my shot, the shot
of the week would be the second shot I hit
on the first hole.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
So I was so incredibly nervous.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
There's like thousands of people like lining the fair away
and I hit it right into the rough and I
never miss it right, but I missed the fairway right
and people were surrounding me. I had to hit this
uphill lie and deep rough over a creek to this
tiny bunk or tiny green that surrounded by bunkers with
people surrounding it. And I hit one of the best

(13:06):
shots where it was like one hundred in almost one
hundred and fifty yards, I.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Hit an eight iron, crushed it, hit the green, and
it was like a Okay, like I.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Can do this, you know, because before I think if
I had that shot, I would have maybe I don't
know what I would.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Have done, but I wouldn't have pulled it off the
way that I did.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Even though it wasn't the best shot that I hit
that day, it was the most meaningful shot that I
hit that set my round up. And I think it's
because I have so much confidence in my clubs and
know that my clubs are fit perfectly for me. I
got my loft and lies checked right before I went
to this match at Club Champion, and I knew that
my clubs could do exactly what I wanted them to do.
So go to Club Champion, get your clubs, get fitted,

(13:46):
play the best golf of the summer of your life
this year right now. Go to Club Champion. You can
use my code page. But merger, merger.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
Talk, merger talk, I mean, should we leave this off
with I said what I said?

Speaker 3 (14:00):
I said what I said truly.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
I mean we literally called like not to like be
like this, but we called this, We called it, We
talked about this wasn't literally last week.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
He was on the last podcast that feels like centuries ago.
But on the last podcast we were talking about that
the only way that this is going to be successful
is for them to come together in a unified front
and to be.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
This global tour that was the only.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Solution that I saw in my head that this could
be good for the game of golf. And you said
that Brooks winning a major is actually the demise of Live.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
I said that because I thought that Jay liked getting
the van back together, like he liked seeing everybody on
the same range. He liked seeing everybody together again. Not
knowing that when we said that, it had been four weeks,
four or five weeks of them already in these rooms
discussing this. I think that when we look at and
we'll get into we'll get into everything. But when we

(15:02):
look into how j Monahan says this, these conversations have
been going on for the last seven weeks. Nine weeks
ago was the Masters, So I believe it. When I
see people say like the Major's changed everything.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Also, the news just made me realize that none of
us has any fucking idea what's going on.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
I don't know what's going on. Golf media doesn't know
what's going on. All of these quote unquote sources. We've
been discussing Live versus the PGA.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Tour for two fucking years now, and all of a sudden,
this bomb drops.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
We're a unified front. The players didn't even know.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
It was truly shocking, and it was kind of funny
to see all these people be, you know, like insiders
and act like they know so much and be absolutely
just wrong, blind sided, yeah, wrong, and blind sided by
this news. And to see how they're reacting now. And
it's like my sources said.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
I'm not trusting your sources. I'n't trusting anyone.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
I'm just going to mind my business see how this
all plays out.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
But it is. It is fascinating. It is truly fascinating.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
So a quick recap in case you do live under
a rock and have not seen what's going on, we'll
give it to you fast. The PGA Tour and the
Saudi Public Investment Fund, which they call PIFF. Pif PIFF
represents live Golf, they are merging the PGA Tour represents
the dp World Tour, so they're kind of lumped into that.
I'm trying to explain this to you, like like your five,

(16:36):
because I still don't really even know what's going on.
The tour says this will form quote a new commercial
entity to unify golf. That entity does not have a name.
I do want to put up a graphic on the
podcast account and put like what should they name it
and see if we can get any ideas, and uh,
maybe we can get a chunk about money for our
marketing efforts. This will be a for profit company, which

(16:59):
is interesting because the PGA Tour always like nonpodags, it
stick around that it's a nonprofit. Monahan will be will
be the CEO. There is a path to live players
rejoining the PGA Tour, which we've said was going to happen.
It's apparently been going on for about seven weeks with
only Monahan and like two or three other people in
the room. So, like you said, no one knew anything.

(17:21):
All the lawsuits, the current pending litigation will be dropped.
So yeah, that's They had a four pm player meeting yesterday.
Golf Channel was live for over seven hours without a commercial,
first time they don't they've done that. So yeah, what
are your slide job? What are your initial thoughts?

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Slide job.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Ultimately, I think it's great for the game of golf.
I was sick of this divide if it went any longer.
I think ultimately it is great for the game of golf.
I think that we do need to be unified. I
was getting tired of having these discussions of what's going
to happen with the Ryder Cup, what's going to happen
with this, what's going to happen with this? And it

(18:01):
was starting to look like everything was crumbling and neither
was going to be successful if they kept on this trajectory.
So for them to come together seemed logical, Like what
we talked about last week. I don't know what's going
to happen with the structure. There's no concrete structure of

(18:21):
what's this going to look like. Is there's still going
to be a Lift Tour and a PGA Tour and
then they can do things together. Is it just going
to be the PGA Tour now and all the live
players can come back. I don't know what it's going
to look like. None of us know what it's going
to look like. But I still like the idea of
what I said before, where there are two separate tours.

(18:41):
You have the Lift Tour, you have the PGA Tour.
They can coexist, but the Lift Tour focuses more on
global global growth.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Global growth, global golf growth, Global.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Golf Golf DGG copyright that on global growth, so they
can continue to play all around the world and that's
their focus. And then you can have the PGA Tour
that continues to go, you know, week in week out.
What I would love on off weeks where we say

(19:13):
this all time, there's just too much golf the same thing,
it's just too much.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Let's do team events and so.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
You don't have to wait, you know, every couple of
years for the Ryder Cup, like you can do really
fun team events on weeks that are a little bit
more boring.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
That's how I would like to see it structured. But
again I don't know. You don't know, they don't know.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
No one knows. I think the number one question that
I have is what is up with the CNBC appearance?
Like there's so many other like I don't know, Golf Channel,
like they could have literally done this. I mean then
the Golf Channel people would have had to know, which
I guess they were like trying to keep it super
hush hush. What was up with that? Like I was,

(19:53):
I was looking on Twitter and then all of a
sudden they were like, jam on Hans Live now on CNBC.
I'm like, what does that have to literally do with anything?

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I think the CW was booked with Buffy reruns, so
they had to go there because they just didn't have
the space.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Honestly, Yeah, that makes sense. I think there's a lot
that we don't know. They keep saying that this is
a framework agreement, basically meaning that this is their initial
idea and they have no idea how it's going to
play out either. What's interesting though, no one's.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Really talking about the fact that there is a true
risk of US and European regulators could block the merger
for antitrust concerns, So that is also a big part
that's coming into play because they were literally just like
a surprise, we have this amazing idea, like.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
What do you think about it?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
And then there's still all of these steps that they
have to take for this to become truly official.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
And they say that the twenty twenty three season will
continue on the PGA Tour and Live and DP World
Tour seasons will all continue on as scheduled through twenty
twenty three. I think if we're looking at this and
looking at who wins who loses, quote unquote, I think
the Live guys win. I think Brooks is the winner
of all of this. Right, he takes his fat check

(21:10):
wins a major and has like no repercussions to go
back on tour, And then you look at guys like
Pat Perez gets his check, shoots eighty two for a
year and then gets to just go back on the
PGA tour with his friends. I mean, it just it
feels really icky for guys on the PGA tour, a
lot of guys who turned down a lot of money,
especially Rory who's been the face of all of this,

(21:33):
to just have no idea any of this was happening. Well,
apparently he knew there were conversations, but he didn't know
the outcome, and then to just kind of be aired
out in this What are your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
I have a hot take. This could be I said
what I said.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
I understand how they feel betrayed, and I would feel
the same way if I was being told that you
can't leave and you can't take the money, and you
can't do this, and we're going to go again, and
to them, we're going to continue to do that. We're
going to support you, and all of a sudden, they're like, surprise,
just kidding. I have trust in j Monahan that he

(22:10):
would not fuck all of these guys over so I'm
trusting that he sees a bigger plan and this was
the only path that worked for everyone. And I believe
all of those players that were loyal to the PGA
Tour will be very well compensated, very well compensated, highly compensated.

(22:34):
I that is a hot take, because I think there
will be a path where they will be highly compensated
and the loyalty will be paid back to them. I
just don't think that someone could truly truly fuck over
all of these guys, especially someone like Rory, who has
been so loyal, who has been so supportive. He had

(22:54):
his press conference today and he said, ultimately, this is
good for the game of golf. And I think saying
that and coming to terms with what is happening, they
probably had a discussion of we're gonna pay you back.
This is going to be something that's going to be
good for everyone. And I do feel bad for them,
But at the same time, we're talking about guys who

(23:15):
are making one hundred million dollars plus, Like, this is
a lot of money. You know who got really fucked
over in all of this is LPGA Tour.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah, what is it with that?

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Where's the support for the women.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
This was the one time where it's like you could
have added this in to really benefit because we've been
talking about this from two years ago, growing the game.
This is for growing the game. We want to grow
the game. We want to elevate the game. You know what,
We're gonna elevate the game, but we're gonna leave women
out of this and maybe checks out, but it's like,

(23:48):
come on, come on. So it is such an easy
play for you to bring them in to truly elevate
and grow the game and not just have the rich
get richer, Like, let's do something to truly integrate them
into this plan to make it worthwhile to grow the
game of golf, and they're like, nah, not yet.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
I think what sucks about that specifically is that it
would have been a drop in the pond financially versus
what they're dealing with, you know, merging with the PGA tour,
Like it wouldn't have been as much money that they
needed to integrate the LPGA Tour. And that's where I
think it's sad, right, Like we always see like the
money is bottomless with the Saudi's, the money is bottomless

(24:28):
with the PIFF But apparently they don't want to have
the women involved, So that's an interesting point for sure.
I mean, I think that Rory's press conference this morning
we're recording this Wednesday, was interesting. I think something he
said that I thought was funny was he said, I
still hate live, I hate them. I hope it goes away,

(24:50):
and I expect that it does. That's the only really
explanation I've heard for how this is going to work.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
If you get rid of the tour, they all come
together and it's like nothing ever happened, which is.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Like, at this point it annoys me. It's like we
we threw it all this It's like, at least keep it.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
But I again, I think it's gonna be good for
the game of golf because you can take what was
great about both tours and put them together. But Sam,
I mean, the burning question everyone wants to know, So
are the guys be able to wear shorts?

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Now?

Speaker 4 (25:22):
They better? I feel like that's what they really want here.
And well, I mean, they said in the press in
the press release that team competition is going to be
integrated here, so.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
I'm really excited about that.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
I'm excited about that too. But going back to a
point that you made a few minutes ago, how we
always talk about how there's too much golf. I think
this would be a good opportunity for golf to take
a fucking chill pill. Like you look at tennis, for example.
Look at tennis, where really the average fan only cares
about a few of the tournaments, the majors. Right, Why

(25:56):
is golf not just like that? I don't need to
really get up for the Valero Texas Open or like,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
I just but you could if it's a team event,
if it's a different format, if it's something that's fun,
that's something that's different. I mean, I think you can't
get excited for stuff like that. If they're not the Claks.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
Can we come up with different names what like that?

Speaker 5 (26:15):
That will probably be part of coming up with new
names for all these teams.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
It's gonna be interesting to see what happens, how this
plays out, and everyone is like, I can't wait for
the next season A full swing. It's gonna be so fire,
And I swear we gotta bring Chad mumb back on
for this. If he leaves the drama out like he
did last season, I will riot. I will be so

(26:43):
upset because if you look at Driver Survive, you look
at the tennis doc, it's they had drama, it's exciting,
and then the golf one was so boring compared to that,
and these are the two most like three most exciting
years in golf history, with so much drama, and they're like,
let's explain the cut for the twentieth time and talk

(27:05):
about the pressure of making the cut. It's like, no,
I don't want to see that. I want to see
all of this stuff, and if he leaves it out, I.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Will be so mad. I'd be so mad.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
I think it's gonna be interesting to see because he
did tweet yesterday that, you know, the cameras were rolling
when this drops. I don't. I don't know what that's
gonna look like. The cameras can be rolling. The footage
does not have to be used, unfortunately, so I don't
know it's going to be interesting. I think something that

(27:34):
I'm confused about is what the title commissioner means, because
like it seems like the future of male professional golf
was in the hands of like three people, and that's
fucking scary. Rory didn't know who's apparently like, you know,
the backbone of all of this player run organization. Tiger

(27:55):
didn't know? Are you kidding?

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Greg Norman didn't know?

Speaker 4 (27:59):
Like that feels so icky to me, and I just
I'm confused. I guess about the power that Jamee Onahan
does hold. While I want to agree with you that
he wouldn't do this, it kind of to me and
this is like, this is kind of a hot take.
It kind of feels to me like they had something
on him and they were trying to blackmail him in

(28:19):
a way to get him.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
But there have been so many conspiracy theories of what's
been going on or what's been happening, and yeah, you know,
we always talk about one day getting a seat at
the table and having power, and Tiger Woods didn't even
have a seat at the table to be able to
discuss this. But I'm at the point now where I'm like,

(28:41):
I don't know. My whole world has just been flipped
upside down. My mind has been blown. I don't know
what's real and what's not real, and like who has
the power and who doesn't have the power and what's
going to happen with this? But yeah, when you're like, okay,
three people or who it sounded like they're being three,
three or four people, three people that we know for sure,

(29:02):
who were highly involved in this to make this happen,
and they shaped the game of golf instantly that quickly
by making that decision in seven weeks, they just completely
changed the game of golf forever. And that can be
a little scary if they don't have the right intentions.
But again, I am an optimistic person, and I'm trying

(29:25):
to be hopeful about this because to be in that position,
you have to be smart, and you have to know
how to handle very very difficult situations. And I'm hoping
that jam Onahan had the right intentions and that he's
doing this for all the right reasons and that he
will repay the loyalty of.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
All these players.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
And so I'm not going to say anything against it
until i know otherwise, because I know how it feels
to be in the public eye and have things that
I have said or things that I do be highly
twisted did and have people have this misconception about who
I am or things that I've said because of something

(30:06):
that I said in passing on a podcast or something
that I tweeted, and I had a word that was
you know, not exactly what was intended, and how people
can go absolutely insane about that. So I'm trying to
do a better job of not coming at someone until
I have all the facts.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Are trying to have all the.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Facts because this was very, very shocking, and I've been
trying to sit back and actually take it all in
instead of just coming out with like a super hot
take just to have a hot take.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
I think that's I think that's very mature of you.
I will say, as a friend, very.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
New I'll probably change it tomorrow. I might flip it around.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
But I think playing Devil's advocate here, I think the
issue that people have with Shamee on a hand, and
I'm not saying this is our take, my take, anyone's
take on this podcast, but is the hypocrisy issue, and
that he would sit at a tournament in the booth
with Jim Nance and say, you know, anyone who supports
live like is basically said, like is okay with nine

(31:05):
to eleven and like, you know, I can't morally support
the people who did nine to eleven, And then he's
going to go and do this, And I think that
that's the issue that people are having. I think if
he would have never, if he would have kept quiet,
would have never really said anything about it and then
did this, it would have been a very different story.

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(32:10):
Do you believe that people have the opportunity to change
a hard stance on something once they grow, have more
facts mature. I think that there's something wrong with society
right now. It's like you come out and you say something,
and if you change your opinion on that, and this
is a very is there's so many layers to this,

(32:32):
but if you change your stance on something, then you're
a hypocrite.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
I would hate.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
If someone wrote down everything I said at twenty and
was like, these are your takes, these are your stance
for the rest of your life, and if you change
your opinion on something, then I will find you to
be a hypocrite. I get what they're saying with Jay Monahan,
but we don't know what's going on. Don't know what's

(33:01):
going on. We don't know why he said that to
begin with, we don't know why he made this decision.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
We know nothing.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
My goal with all of this from the very beginning
was what's good for the game of golf. All the
other nonsense. I wanted out there, what's good for the
game of golf. And if this is what's best for
the game of golf, then then I'm happy. Because at
some point it's like it's just there's almost too much drama.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Yeah, I agree, and I think that that's part of
the hypocrisy angle, is like we don't know what's going on,
and the shock factor made people be like, what is
this guy doing behind closed doors? You know what I mean?
And that's where I think that people are getting upset.
I think, like we've said, there's a lot of stuff

(33:42):
that we don't know that it's going to come out
over the next coming days. We're going to be talking
about this for a while. Let's get into some listener comments.
Let's do it because we asked on the podcast. We
want initial thoughts. We want to know what you guys think.
We asked on the podcast. Instagram count follow us at
Playing Around podcast kick it off for us.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Okay, so this question is from Don says, what if
this was the plan the whole time Live is successful,
PGA Tour keeps its image while using Live to grow
the fan base. Also explains why Jay has been off
the grid for a while.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
It's a conspiracy theory.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
It's a conspiracy theory. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
I think that when those first started, no one knew
if Live could be successful or not. And once it
started to gain traction, then it became a bigger threat
to the PGA Tour. Once the players started to play
well in majors and had access to play in the majors,
then it became a very big threat. Another conspiracy theory

(34:40):
I heard is that a couple big name players were
threatening to go to Live Tour and it forced j
Monahan's hand into making this decision.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
I think calling Lives successful is like a tenfold issue
because they spent how much money doing this? Right? Yeah,
they're not like a profitable business. So what does successful mean? Right?

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Like how much money? Right? Sure?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
They use that to do this, like this was the
ultimate goal all along. So I think when Don asked,
was this the plan the whole time for Live? Yes,
this was the plan from the very very beginning. This
is what they wanted to do. Was this the original
plan for the PGA tour? Probably not?

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yeah, And I think it's it's just interesting because now
you would classify Live as the winner here, But when
you look at like how much money they're spending versus
how much money they're making, it's not like if you
look at the business definition of success a profitable business,
like how much money did they spend to get all
those players there? How much money are they spending on
every event? And they're selling thirty dollars tickets to ten

(35:47):
thousand people? Like you're not making your return on that.
But I think the thing is like they don't care, right,
Like they have bottomless pockets and it's just not that's
not what they're concerned with. If one thing you can
learn from all this is that money talks. Baby.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Always take the deal.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Always take the deal, because you'll just get let back
in a year later. Anyway, So Larry says, the PGA
tour knew they would lose the court case. They've been
holding back money for a while. How did all of
a sudden they have these dollars to throw at these purses.
Jay didn't want to open his books in the court.
We talked about this a little bit via text. Thoughts
on that.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, we discussed this. I think anytime you go to
court and this would have been a very long drawn
out court case, and we have seen that with the
dates being pushed back and having to subpoena all of
these different people, it is highly stressful, highly stressful, and

(36:46):
I can't even imagine at this magnitude with both entities
having so much money, it would have just gone for
ever and that's not good for anyone. So I think
that again, this the best option to.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Ignore all of that.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
It's also stressful in the players because they probably would
have had to come in talk about this. It would
not have been good for a lot of information to
get out to the public. So again, I think this
was the best route and no one wanted to go
to court.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
Ashley says, where does the game go from here? Drama, drama,
drama or epic success.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
I mean, I am all for disruption, clearly.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
I think that the game of golf has needed to
be shaken up for a very long time. It has
been stagnant. It's always the same, We're always focused on tradition,
and I believe again, I'm I'm hopeful and I believe
that this will be a massive kickstart to a new
regrowth of the game of golf, to reaching new people,

(37:50):
to reaching different demographics.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
I'm trying to be.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
As hopeful and positive as possible because again, we don't
have all the information.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
It's going to play out for a very.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Long time, and I don't want to say something now
that you know in a couple of years later, I
regret because we were talking about Live as if it
wasn't a threat two years ago, and it just shows you.
It's like once, if you don't have that information, it's
really hard to have an educated take on what's going
to happen.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
But what do you think.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
I think it has an opportunity to be very successful
if everybody can get over you know, their little petty bullshit.
And I think I think it's interesting when in Rory's
press conference, one note that we didn't mention earlier was
that he said he was never offered live money. He
was never offered to go. I was under the assumption

(38:37):
that everyone was offered to go, especially the top players
like Rory. Did you like, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (38:43):
That's interesting?

Speaker 2 (38:46):
I guess they knew that he had a very strong
stance from the very beginning. That It's like, why even
give a proposal or talk to him when you know
you can't sway someone in.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
You apparently offered Tiger Woods. Did they really think they
were going to get him?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
The thing about Tiger is it feels like throughout his career,
although he has been supportive of the PGA tour, he's
never been as outspoken as Rory and even as like
an Arnold Palmer. There are certain people who have different
goals and you know, aspirations of what they want the

(39:22):
game to look like. And I always feel that Tiger
believed if he played well and he won, that that
was the best way to get people into the game
of golf, and he was right. You know, if that's
what he truly believes. It's like, if I play well
and I continue to do my job, which is playing
golf really, really well, then I will bring more people
to the game of golf.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
But with Rory, I think that.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
He believes that his legacy is reached beyond that, so
it's doing more work behind the scenes to be highly
involved in the tour. So I can see why maybe
they wouldn't go to Rory, but they would go to Tiger.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
I think, if you make a great point about it,
Tiger and I think he is kind of the poster
child for a stick to the stick to your sport.
He never really says anything about politics, anything about He's
not out there like tweeting statements when things happen that
aren't related to golf. I think I think that's a

(40:18):
very interesting point that I've never really thought about. I
also don't know if Rory chose this or if he
was just kind of like forced into this position.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Position.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
Something that he said in his in his press conference was, uh,
where is it? I'm trying to find it. Something about
feeling like a sacrificial lamb, which I think is quite
the hot take.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
You can always say no, though, and when you look
at his press conferences, he is very well spoken, he's
very passionate about this, and I do think at some
level he ultimately wants to grow the game of golf,
and he has that really good intention to grow the
game of golf, and I think at times sure he's

(41:06):
put in positions that might make him uncomfortable, but you
can always say no. And I believe that he does
want to have a massive impact on the game, much
bigger than just playing really good golf. It's like, also
it's different for each person. Michael Jordan said. When they
asked him to speak about political issues, he said, Republicans
and Democrats they all buy sneakers, you know, and so

(41:27):
there's some pressure to alienate one group. And we've actually
seen this throughout the past two years of people who
have taken very hard stances against live Brandal Chamblie for
a great example, It's like, what do you do now?
You know, like you almost put yourself in a really

(41:47):
bad corner. And he had to come on Golf Channel
and he said it was the saddest day and professional golf,
and it's like, what else does he say? Because if
he's now in support and he will probably have to
be in support of it because he works for the
Golf Channel and this is the way that golf is going,
then he is going to look like a hypocrite. So
sometimes it's like you put people in positions that where

(42:09):
they can't win. It's a lose lose situation for some
people to have an opinion, stick to opinion, be passionate
about opinion. Then when you're wrong, then you're crucified for it.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
It's tough. I mean, everybody's kind of put in a
tough position right now. Rory included Matt says good for
golf in the long run, but feel bad for golfers
who turned down the money just for Jay to turn
around and take the money. And to that point. In
his presser, Rory was asked if players who were offered
to live money but declined should now be compensated like
we talked about earlier, and his quot was, the simple

(42:41):
answer is yes. The complex answer is how does that happen?
And I think it just goes back to what we're
saying is there's so much that we don't know. They're
not like Rory is not going to get the five
hundred million he probably would have been offered by Live.
But what, like, how do you begin to make things
right for people who were loyal to the PGA Tour.

(43:01):
I have no idea how that works.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Well.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
I saw someone tweet that a potential option is for
the Lift players who decide to come back to the
PGA Tour will have to pay a fine. Each fine
will be different for each player, depending on the situation.
I don't believe that they could find pill three hundred
million dollars.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
I think that's unreasonable.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
You can't give the money back, and that would be
unfair for the LIFT players. I believe that what they
can do is they I mean, they have what sixty
billion dollars now that they can play with.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
They're going to be fairly compensated.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
It is what it is, because you can't there's no
path forward where the players who are loyal do not
get compensated. It's just not going to work then or
then j Monahan will have to step down.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
If that's the case.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
There was apparently a standing ovation when people called for
his resignation in the player meeting yesterday. So while we
or you know, want to believe that Jay is doing
the right thing and wouldn't put it players in the situation.
A lot of players don't feel the same way and
they feel very betrayed, which I think will be very
interesting to see how this framework agreement actually plays out.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
It was interesting watching how certain players were interacting with
the news publicly yesterday. For example, Wesley Bryan was live
trying to live stream during the players meeting, and he
was laughing about it and didn't really be He wasn't

(44:32):
He didn't seem to be in that much distress, and
maybe he copes with humor under stressful situations, but it
didn't quite match his original tweet that he put out
where he felt so hurt by the situation, and then
a little bit later he was trying to almost get
clout off of the situation and that a little bit

(44:53):
rubbed me the wrong way when he did that.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
Yeah, I understand that too. I think it's that's going
off of that comment. Tiana, which she's the girl we
met from the podcast at the match What's Up Girl,
commented and said keeping it a secret from the players
was the worst part. There should have been some form
of communication to their loyalty. But love the idea and
I think it'll make for some fun golf. That's what
I think is hard.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
I have a question.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
So we know that it is a player run organization,
which means that the players have pretty much, historically speaking,
all control of massive decisions, this not being one of them.
Do you think that Jay Monahan did this because there
were too many cooks in the kitchen and he couldn't
get done what he needed to get done when he

(45:42):
had all of these different voices telling him what he
needed what he had to do for them.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
So I think I have two thoughts on that. One
is yeah, probably because how are you going to keep
I don't know how many people are in the player
Advisory Council. Isn't it like fourteen or ten or fifteen
or something? How are you going to get keep all
of them quiet and quiet? Though? Yeah, I'm sorry, but
if I'm on that player Advisory Council and I hear

(46:08):
some shit, I'm at least telling like my boyfriend and you,
and my mom and my dad. So now that's like
five people.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
So what we learned today have this entire podcast is
never tell Sam a secret.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Listen. I'm a great secret keeper. But I also believe
that the people around me are also just me, so
like that's not really an extension of like you just
you telling me was I mean you should.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
Have just assumed you knew what you were getting into.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
Yeah, yeah, you did so. But second to that, I
think that I yeah, like you said, there's probably too
many cooks in the kitchen. I do think though he
should he should have quote unquote should have said something
to the players or at least the Advisory Council before
coming out and going live on CNBC and sending an email.

(46:55):
That's what I think was a little even if it
was the night before, like I think the heads up.
Then not having a heads up and having JT tweet
that his phone is blowing up while he's practicing like it,
that felt icky to me.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
I would say that no matter any situation, it's brutal
being blindsided on social media and not being the first
one to know, whether it.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Is business or personal.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
We have all been in a situation where you see
potentially like you're ex posting something for the first time
and not giving you a heads up, or you're talking
to one of your friends and she says she's ever
gonna get back together? With their boyfriend, and all of
a sudden, they're posting on Instagram that they're engaged. Like
stuff as simple and as little as that really hurts

(47:43):
you and makes you feel like you've been betrayed by
someone that you trust. So I can understand why the
players feel this way, and not giving them any heads
up at all. It could have been sending an email
out thirty seconds before they went live, a minute before
they went live. It didn't have to be a big
heads up. But to find out on social media, that's rough,

(48:05):
that's really rough.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Yeah, that's what I think felt the worst to me
because of how much they've like pimped out the Player
Advisory Council and how much work they're doing, and how
many meetings they have, and then for all of them
to have no idea, which just kind of weird. I
want to throw it back to probably two years ago,
when the biggest controversy in golf was hoodies and joggers.

(48:31):
Can we go back to that? That was a much
funner timeline to look at on Twitter.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Or I remember Tony fina one and they're like, what's.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
His Bigsdonald's order or and everyone was like talking about
that or it's a music be allowed on the golf
course or not. And now we're talking about things where
I'm I'm like asking my boyfriend.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
I'm like, what is this business term? And what does
this mean for this? I'm like, I'm like.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
What does merge means?

Speaker 3 (48:58):
I'm like, growing so much as a human being?

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Though, Wow, look at you, she's a businesswoman. I think
it's I do think it's a little bit unfortunate that
this again happens on the RBC Canadian Open Week. Damn
that tournament just keeps getting shafted. Bro.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
But how does Michael Block play into all of this?
That's what we need to know. Does he still have
his sponsor invites?

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Oh my god, I think that What did you This
is a text from page What did you send me
about Michael Block last night? That was so funny.

Speaker 5 (49:28):
I'm avoiding all Michael Block texts from here on out
after the last controversy that we dealt with with him
not quote unquote kissing his wife.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
Oh my god, wait, yeah, I forgot about that, but
I think it was something we talked about, something along
the lines of like I just want to see him
walking out of the players meeting and like talking and
doing an interview.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
You guys reacted all this like please you who needs
to not do interviews right now?

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Every single player, which just.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Like Bryson was on the news this morning. I mean,
that guy doesn't have a fucking clue what's going on.
That's like a disservice, Like it was kind of embarrassing
to watch, Like he doesn't he doesn't have any answers,
and they're putting and they're putting him in this situation
where he's forced to just be like no.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
One, oh, no one knows what's going on.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
No one does.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Before we wrap up this episode, there is massive news
which is again being overshadowed by all of this drama,
and it's that Roseng won her first LPGA event as
a pro. She turned pro, won the event. Rose has
had an absolute stellar junior.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
And amateur career.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
I was looking at some of her stats from college
and it's it's truly incredible, and I don't feel like
she really had her moment to shine and to get
the press that she deserved because of the timing of
all of this news.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
But Roseng, is she the next female Tiger?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
I mean at this rate, I mean she won the
an Wan April, she wins the NCAA Championship. In May,
turns Pro wins her first LPGA event. I mean, that's insane.
And she was in a playoff against Jennifer cup Show,
who we know very well from the first an WHA event,
and kudos to Jennifer. She lost to Rose in the
playoff and was the first one to spray Roseang with

(51:24):
water on the eighteenth green, So I think that was
just really cool to see, but yeah, sucks that it
was overshadowed.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Well. Rose had so much composure in her interviews as well.
She looks like a season pro. She was doing autographs
and pictures with kids after and I was truly truly
impressed by her at Liberty National Liberty Ashevill by the way,
one of the coolest courses ever.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
That backdrop amazing, insane, and I think we talked about
this a little bit. I think there's an innocence with
her and her golf swing and her game where it
doesn't and I could be totally wrong. I've only seen
her through a TV, but it looks like she just
doesn't have many concerns and thoughts and stress over the ball,
which is how I played when I was, you know, eighteen,

(52:11):
I didn't think about anything, and so I think that
that's something that I really hope she can harness and
continue with because it's really awesome to watch. It's like
she steps over the ball and just knows it's going
to go on the green close to them.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Her swing is just so mechanically sound. There's not a
ton of moving pieces. I think when you look at
certain players worry. For example, sometimes you look at here
and you're like, I don't really know where this is going,
but his swing looks beautiful. But with Rose, you're like,
she's gonna hit the fairway, just gonna hit the green.
She's probably gonna make this putch. She looks so calm,
And when you think back of the best rounds of
golf you've ever had, what do you think?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Nothing?

Speaker 4 (52:46):
You don't think it Like I wasn't even there. It
was like a fever dream exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
And every single round that she plays looks like that.
And she has this confidence, this air about her, but
it's not a cockiness, and that's.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Really hard to channel.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Someone like a Roger Fetter has that, but you don't
really see that too often where she's she's very confident
in her abilities. But she's also very humble, so I'm
excited to see her career span and it's going to
be a very very successful one.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Well, it's been a long year, okay, bye, I'm proved.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Oh my gosh. And it's only June.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
I meant it's only Wednesday. It felt like a year
this week. But yeah, only June as well.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Like I think your favorite podcast girls need a little
bit of a nap, and it's been I.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
Will be taking a nap today. If I go missing
after lunch, just don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
We'll be napping.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
But thank you got so much for listening and supporting.
Don't forget to leave your questions on the podcast account,
the Playing Around podcast count on Instagram, leave us five stars,
write a nice review, don't forget to subscribe, send to
your friends all of the above, and we will catch
you here next time.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Love you bye, Love you bye.

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