August 11, 2025 • 32 mins
In this can’t-miss episode, Dierks Bentley opens up about his journey from Nashville newcomer to country music star. He shares how movement and sports fuel his performances, why fitness is essential for touring, and the delicate balance of life on the road as a dad. Dierks also reveals tips and tricks for breaking into the Nashville scene, lessons from hit songwriting, and why “less fame” can mean more fulfillment. From heartfelt life stories to creative inspiration, this conversation is packed with wisdom, humor, and motivation for anyone chasing a dream.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, guys, welcome back to Post Run High. Today's guest
is a country music legend, Dirk Spentley. He's been a
dream guest of mine for a while, and I had
a feeling you'd be just as excited to hear from
him as I was to sit down with him. The
moment we found out that Dirks would be in LA
for his Broken Branches tour and that he was open
to being on the show, we jumped into action. We
booked last minute flights, we sourced podcast equipment rentals in LA,
(00:28):
and we figured out every detail needed to pull this
off on the road across the country. It took some
serious behind the scenes hustle, but guys, we made it happen,
because when he get the chance to sit down with
someone like Dirk s Bentley, you take it. Now, this
episode is a little different. We didn't start with a run. Instead,
Dirk's invited me to play pickleball backstage with him and
his bandmates, So this is a shorter episode. We had
(00:49):
a quick thirty minute window right before Dirks went on stage,
but I think you'll feel how raw and grounded this
chat was. He's someone who has stayed at the top
of his industry for over two decades, and hearing his
take on longevity, balance and enjoying life was a real gift.
We've got so many more amazing guests on the way,
so please be sure to rate and review the show,
follow along on socials, and DM me with any guest requests.
(01:12):
I always love hearing from you as we grow the
show together. And with that, let's get into my conversation
with Derek's Derek Spentley, Welcome to Poster on High.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here.
This is awesome. Yeah, excited to be on the set.
It's nice you guys to get that.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
We are currently at the Into It Dome.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, and that's like the New Year coming. They really
got it all spice stuff. This is not my dressing room,
but I'd be half if it was. I'd be so
happy to sitting at all these hearts. It'd be like
very positive vibes walk out on stage, way too relaxed
and just like happy. Yeah, that's not good.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
For everybody listening. Just to set the scene a little bit,
we are currently sitting in a room. This room really
stands out yet compared to the rest of the backstage
the rest of the backstage area, like all equipment to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Hear line around them. Our rooms set up with people
work really hard on the tour to like make different
vibe rooms. So like our dress rooms pretty great. There's
like really, oh yeah, we'll good by, take look at
before we leave. But it's it's very homey and there's
lots of banners and flags up from previous tours and stuff,
so it feels very It's very similar. So no matter
where we are, there's that one room that always feels
like a home space.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, this is adorable. I feel like crazy, I
feel like I mean like Hannah Montana's dressing room.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
This. I wonder why they did this. It must be
like the player's kids are something that come in here
and I have like a probably a play room drink.
While the Clippers are playing basketball, they come in here,
and like maybe the wives hang out here. I don't know.
It's very different from our usual goad vibe.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, I'm loving it. For everybody listening that wants to
know what we're talking about. There's basically hearts hanging dripping
down the walls. It's beautiful. We're sitting in these really
cool velvet chairs. So we're in a great podcasting that.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I feel like this room a little meditation.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah, this room was made for us. We just got
back from playing a little bit of Yeah you're quite
the pickleball player.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, what I lack in skill, I try to make
up with a lot of antics. Basically, you know, whatever
it takes to get the win. Pretty much, that's pretty
much my life philosophy when I you know, just do
whatever it takes to get the job done. So I
was playing against Ben up there Ore, a guitar player
who's really great. He loves pickleball, but almost to get
the mouth chirping a little bit, I can kind of
get some points off. I'm just just off that. But
it is funny something we do before every show. We'll
(03:16):
try to find a way to do something. And years
past I've done a lot of biking. I actually have
a trailer that has like ten bikes in the back
of it. You still like just gravel and road and biking.
We're out here and played golf a lot, and I
used to be out of here. I've been doing this
for twenty years, but in the last couple of years
it's been doing pick a ball. It's so easy because
you can kind of just do it on site, like
today we tape that court up on the on the
(03:37):
basketball court upstairs. A lot of times, a majority of
this time this tour is outside, so we'll just do
it in the parking lot. We'll just tape some lines
up in the parking lot and kind of call it
prison ball because you never noticed where the pickle ball
is going to go. It's like you're playing in the
in the prison lot or something. Or we'll go find
court somewhere. But it's just a good way to kind
of like you know, get off the bus and get
some sort of like exercise in before getting off her day.
(03:58):
And it's just so important. What I love about your
podcast and the whole approach to doing something active before
you talk is it's so true. There's a buddy Mine
guy named John Raimi wrote a book called Spark and
it was all about like this thesis idea that kids
will performed better at school that it you know, some
exercise for they walked into the classroom. And so he
did this study of Missouri and you had the kids
(04:19):
on like a mile every day before school started, and
like there's test scores are like way better so that's
a very terrible summary of the book, but it's so true.
It just gives you such a you know, it's so
important for your.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Brain, it does. It makes you feel good, makes you
more productive. Travis Barker, drummer, not the artist. I'm pretty
sure before a lot of his concerts he does like
a run with some of his fans, and that's how
he gets ready for before he gets on stage. So
I like knowing that it's a common thing for you
guys as artists that you get a little bit of
activity in before you perform. Yeah, I mean, it makes
(04:51):
you feel better right before you get on stage.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
A lot of years, it wasn't like that. In the
early years, it was not getting off the bus until
the sun had gone down and then staying up until
it came up. You know, it's been the rest of
the day forty much sleeping or playing video games. So
trying to learn as they get older, you know, trying
to grow.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
What does movement look like for you in your life
and how do you feel like it translates into your
work and into your music.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, I mean my favorite thing is to be outside
doing something active. I mean, my team back home knows
if it's a sunny day outside, it's I'm not gonna
want to be in the studio. I'm not gonna we
want to be writing songs. We want to go do
something that day off to go. I take advantage of ease.
It's hard for me being side when it's nice outside,
but yeah, it's always been really uh important to me.
I mean, I just I love just anything outdoors. It's biking.
(05:37):
I love mountain biking, you know, throwing a rucksack on
and doing that whole thing, and hiking nearby trails. Uh,
just pickleball obviously, tennis, I love skiing from my favorite sport.
Especially as you get older too, it's like he's like,
you know, you got a finite amount of like use
left in your body, so it's like you want to
take advantage of every chance you get. On the road.
(05:59):
It's just hard. I mean, you'd really have to be
a good sleeper to be like a good road person.
And uh, you know, these guys know because my last
week was so bad. I had like literally two nights
in a row no sleep at all, like zero hours,
just because either the hotel room had no air conditioning
or the bus had a transmission issue was like jerking
around and then I got like one hour sleep the
third night, and then you know, maybe five and then zero,
(06:20):
and it's just like it's so a lot of times
you're riding here on the road, it's just like survival.
I mean, all your you have these plans, come out
here and we're gonna be so healthy, we're gonna just
just do all this stuff, and then you get out here,
it's like, oh my god, I'm just like holding on
to my next you know, drink before I walk on stage,
and like just you have just enough energy sometimes just
like go cross that show and then it's like the
rest of the time out it's just like survival getting
(06:40):
ready for the next one. That's some days now. Some
days it's great, like today it's pretty god last night
and we gon'll play a little pickball and it's you
know better. But really you're just in when you're on
the road, you're just kind of in service of the
show and whatever it takes, like make sure that two
hour period on stage is like not only a great
experience for the fans obviously, but also for you and
you in your your band, everyone, your your family, everyone.
(07:02):
You're making a sacrifice from to be away from. You
have to make sure that time on stage is just
like the most epic awesome thing. So whatever it takes
to get like just two hours of like crazy energy.
You know, some days that is just like not doing
a whole lot, just sitting in your bunk. And then
some days it's like getting out there and trying to
be super you know, do something active. But it's just
kind of a day by.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Day basis, you know, and it really is like a marathon.
You gotta pace yourself crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah. I mean there's like our guy's Dan who was
playing pickaball are footle player. You talk to him, he's like,
he just pisses me off because we could just be
sitting somewhere and all a sudden he just falls asleep.
That is.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Sitting up in a really uncom I'll.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Be lying next to my wife like just thinking about
those steps I need to take to like begin the
process of maybe falling asleep, you know, which is where
the pills need to be positioned. And also I like
that jerk, and I'm like, you're kidding me, Like we've
been in bed for like five seconds, you're already out.
So but as that is helpful to have that that quality,
but you just find whatever you need to do to
(08:02):
get done. And my wife was always the first one.
She's like, if you don't feel good, if you're tired,
go do something, Go run and go bike, Like it's
it's how you like manufacture energy energy?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And how often are you on tour? Like, I know
you kind of joked around during the pickleball portion where you.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Were it started in two thousand and two, but like.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
How often, Yeah, how often are you on Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
No, Now it's like it's pretty much just the summer.
You three kids and a pretty busy like schedule back home,
so it's pretty much just like what makes.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
The summer your time to go on tour? Like why
is because.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
They're all scattered too, Like my son's at a camp
in North Carolina, my daughter's up in New York, my
other daughters and another sleep away camp, so some are
just like we're all just going so many different directions.
It's kind of like it's a good time to be
out there in the road in the winter and in
the school year. There's just like a lot going on
with these little kids and their their hopes and dreams
and a lot of car driving for me a lot
(08:53):
ubering around for the driving these guys around places. But
summer's just a good time to be out here, just
it and it's fun. It's scared time to be on
the road. You know, everyone's excited to be outside and
go to concerts.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So your kids must think it's so cool what their
dad does for a living.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
My family loves music. I mean, they're crazy uber fans.
When I'm home, if there's a concert playing in town,
we're probably like see you know, But they just think
of like, they know what. I love music, and they
love it on the road. But they used to come
out a lot back when they're younger, and we did
all the kiddie pools and putt golf courses across the country.
And now they're off doing their.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Own things, chasing their own dreams.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Let's back it up a little bit. How does a
boy from Phoenix, Arizona fall in love with grassroots country music.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
My dad was a big part of it, you know.
My dad loved country music so and my sister was
three years older than me, and she loved music in general,
not so much country. She loved like you two and
just all that great like eighties music. You know, We're
just then was so great? Is that there wasn't a phone,
you know, so like there wasn't a lot of like
other distractions. It's like music was it, you know in movies.
(10:08):
I guess too, But music was like the cultural currency,
you know, who do you like? What do you like?
What have you heard about? What posters you have hanging
in your room? Who are you gonna go see? It
was just that's all that really was.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It was.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It was so she loved. My sister loved music. My
dad loved country music. We listened to a lot in
the car, and I always enjoyed listening to it. It
wasn't really my thing, but I liked it. And then thirteen,
I discovered the electric guitar. Friend of mine, a new
kid in school, had electric guitar to his house, and
I just remember going over there and like hearing it
for the first time and like it. Just I remember thinking, Wow,
(10:41):
it's so cool. You can really change whatever mood you're
in just by picking this thing up and playing it,
you know. So I fell in love with electric guitar.
He was a really great guitar player, and he was
like steadily progressing a lot faster than me, even though
we were both playing a lot. Story of my life,
I don't think I was meant to be a guitar player,
though I do love all kinds of guitar, bluegrass guitar
and great flat picking and and then I was a
(11:02):
huge Van Halen fan growing up with because of him,
so really getting all that kind of music. And I
was just going down different roads musically. But I really
fell in love with country music in high school. A
friend of mine was he saw me, you know, I
electric guitar in my room and I was always trying to,
you know, play these power chords and stuff and just
hadn't really found what I was looking for. And he
like sat me down and said, you have to listen
(11:23):
to these songs. And he played me like three songs
and it was just like one of those crazy moments
in life you just know, without knowing what you're meant
to do. Uh, and there's a very crazy idea to
chase that. But I was right there. I was like,
that's what I want to do, this guy, this is
the music I was looking for my whole life really
in some way. So yeah, So from about seventeen on,
(11:44):
I mean it was just like obsessed with country music.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And what were those songs that he played for you?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It was a Hank Junior song called Manda Man and
just this loud. You know, a lot of electric guitar. Hank.
You know, if you think Junior at all, he's just
like a very crazy the personality, great songwriter, great can
play all the instruments, very loud, sing songs about like
naked women and beer stuff when you're seventeen, really sounds cool.
(12:08):
He actually has a song called Naked Women and beer.
Sorry handle, it's appropriately not, but when you're seventeen years older,
you're like, that's a pretty cool song. He's just crazy guy.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Classic country, classic country.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, there is one of a kind, and Hank Junior,
he's one of a kind. And then you know, Alan
Jackson was a big part of that Midnight Montgomery their
song by Marty Stewart, and I just fell in love
with it, and I got to Nashville, in to Vanderbilt
for college, went there. I went to UVM for a year,
but I was up there watching CMT country music television
and just obsessed with country, and I knew I needed
(12:39):
to get to Nashville somehow. So I was able to
to get in and to transfer.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
But let's let's dive into UVM for a second. So
you get to UVM, you're a freshman on campus.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, So I was in a fraternity and
great guys. I mean really I love that school. I
tried to go to Boulder, where my wife actually gone,
but I didn't. I didn't get in, but this is
great guys that I was in the essay house and
just really nice people there. You know, there's a little
country bar in town called JP's, and I was always
down at JP's hanging out, and I was always back
(13:09):
watching CMT and I was working on songs and I
got really great grades that semester. And because I knew
Vanderbilt would be a hard school to get into, but yeah,
I remember during on the chapter meetings, I's just like,
as I'm I'm leaving, I got into this school and
I know what I want to do, and they're all
supportive but kind of bummed out, and as I was too,
because it was really great. That was kind of like,
in some ways, my whole college experience was like that
(13:29):
one year. Because I got to Vanderbilt. The first day
I got there, I got an internship with the Country
Music Association and have my own study syllabus. It was
all downtown listening to the bands playing. You know, I
was just obsessed with like songwriter Nights and Lower Broadway
and all the people playing on Lower Broadway and all
of it. There's great bands playing all over Nashville. And
(13:50):
I was just constantly going to watch bands, to listen
to songwriter rounds and to see how people do it,
working on my own songs, learning cover songs, trying to
get better on the guitar, trying to learn how the
business works. And I finished school, but I I mean,
I didn't go to the graduation. I'm not kind of
it's an expensive three year, you know program of I
(14:14):
had my own like side education going on. But I
needed that time to like work on my craft.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And learn the craft of country music in the place
where it all came.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, I've learned Big city and how does it I
didn't have any connections there and know anybody in the business,
And how do you even get started on getting a
record deal or a publishing deal or you know, playing
gigs downtown and getting see you know, just and but
through it all, it was just a love of like music,
just love of like country music and being in a
band beyond stage. So that's kind of It wasn't so much.
I mean, it's work, but it's more just like when
(14:45):
you're really passionate about something, it kind of pulls you
forward as opposed to you hav to like push yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
No, you figure out how to make it happen, especially
when you're that age and you're like, I'm going to
do this thing.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
There's a will, there's a way, right, You'll find a
way to make it work. And then you look back
and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I
did all that. I used to like load my car
up with like the PA system. I had these two
fifteen inch speakers. We would go on these racks, this
big heavy board that had the EQ and all this
crap that I didn't even have to work. I know,
if I just plug these things in and made a
little smiley face with the EQ, it probably sound like
where it needs to sound. But I would like park
my truck in front of the gig and unload all
(15:18):
this stuff with the lights on, hopefully not get a ticket,
and settle this crap up and then go park my
car come back for a four hour gig, have a
few drinks, and then you know, HOPEU those drinks will
wind down a little bit and then all that ship
all that stuff back up again and go back home.
And I mean it was like it was so much crazy,
like physical work, right, and.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
To now think about where you are and the production
that goes into it and all the team members that
you had.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Now stually even looking on all your stuff, I'm curious
once you kind of do a little of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Well, but when you first started out, it was just you,
no band, just you your guitar and going for it.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Me and I had a little piece of paper that
I still have somewhere. I've lost so much stuff along
the way, but it was like all these phone numbers
for like steal guitar players. I had, like, you know,
five guys, and I had to keep writing new names
in or fiddle players and drummers and guitar players. Had
a sheet of paper so if someone canceled on me,
I could call ask me like, hey, you know you available.
I gotta I gotta ten to two tonight, you know it.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, that's a pretty good sheet of paper to have you. Yeah,
gotta have that when you got to Nashville, did you
feel like I don't fit in here?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. I
certainly felt that way for sure too, Like just coming
to town. Even though like having a college like college
degree wasn't that kind of like that's something you would
talk about, you know, back things, it was kind of like, yeah,
it was kind of frowned upon to have like a
college to come from college. It was just not cool.
I don't know, it's like changed a lot since then,
but uh, yeah, for that being from Arizona, everyone was
(16:40):
dressed like super Garth Brooks, you know, whe at the
starts jeans and a big belt buckle and what was.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Your look at the time, Like paint the picture of
Derreks Bentley at nineteen gosh, I mean I.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Really got turned onto bluegrass music. There's a little bar
that was playing where I walked in. It was nineteen
and those guys knew more about the people on music
Row as far as like they knew Johnny Cash and
they could do all do all Johnny Cash songs and
George Jones and but also like Bill Monroe and Stanley
Brothers all the bluegrass stuff too. But they were just
dressing like white sneakers and baggy jeans and some T
(17:09):
shirt that was like two sizes too big. You know,
there's no like there's and I really gravitate towards those guys.
There's all about the music first and like and then
you go up on music row and everyone's dressed a
certain way, but they're not even writing their own songs,
you know, the record labels kind of telling them how
to dress, what to what songs to cut, what producer
to work with. And I was like, well, that's definitely
(17:30):
not gonna work for me. So somewhere in between, you
I always had my boots and jeans and just you know, nowadays,
anybody will just pop a cowboy hat on. You know,
it's like one day, now I'm a hat act all
of a sudden. Back then, it was like a thing,
aed are you Are you a hat act or not?
Are you? I'm not? No? Okay, so but but no,
So that wasn't one of those guys. But I just
I'm just some of they just loved like in the
(17:50):
country music, the history of it, and probably knew more
about it, you know, than any of my contemporaries at
that time. Where by a lot of people music are.
I was just obsessed with like old school country music
and old school like going back to like you know,
just early Whalen and Willie and all the all the
way back to you know, Hank Junior and Hank Hank
Senior rather and let you for Zell and just love
the history of the music and the whole the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
When I think about country music, I think a lot about,
like I feel like, through the songs and the stories
that you hear in them, it's all about the journey
and the experiences that people have, right, Like, there's a
lot of soul in all the songs that you hear
people singing. Were there any formative experiences that you had
in those early days that really shaved who you are
and your voice?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I was playing downtown for a lot of years, and
I had friends that would get like record deals, you know,
while I was just kind of still down their plane
and you know, you're hearing stories about who's getting signed
or what's going on. But luckily for me, I just
love playing so much. It wasn't like my primary focus
wasn't like getting like a record deal. It's just like
just playing that gig and just having fun and seeing
those songs, and of course I was working on a
(18:52):
bunch of stuff when I wasn't down there as far
as songwriting and meetings and whatnot. But you know, one
night Vince Gill came down and joined us on stage
for like an hour, and that was like a really
big deal that someone like if his statue would come
singh sitting with us this little tiny stage had a
TV above us. You know, we'd be we're until the
story many times before, but also in the crowd with
(19:12):
the crowd, like all five people if they're even there,
would start cheering about something. It's and you'd look down,
thinking something you did in your guitar. It's because someone
hit a home run on the TV above your stage,
which is actually there's nights I wish there's a TV
above the stage. It's actually pretty great. You know, people just.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Cane diction and just watch that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I guess we kind of have that here. We've had
a really big TV out here, our video our video
wall on at the show tonight. But yeah, you know,
I just kept plugging along, and oddly enough, my drummer
who's still with us today, he was working in the
in one of the publishing companies, and he took me
over to take a meeting, and that meeting led to
just more doors opening up. And I've had some great
mentors along the way, songwriters, Guys that I grew up admiring,
(19:53):
just working writing songs together with in the studio, learning
how to like you know, talk to a band and
make records. So there's been a lot of people on
the way, but I think that's probably one of my
main strengths is just like surrounding myself with great people,
you know, people that know more about everything than I do,
like with my band on stage, incredible musicians, you know,
(20:13):
So surrounding yourself with musicians that are better than you.
Pretty smart people, mostly women, A lot of smart women
in my life. And yeah, oh yeah and out here
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So yeah, when you think about country music, and you
said it earlier, the term like learning the craft, what
goes into learning the craft of becoming a great country singer,
(20:43):
a great country artist.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
There's so many That's such a great question because I
used to think about that a lot, Like there's all
these cups that you have to like kind of fill, right,
like how to be talk to people on stage. You know,
you've got a bunch of drunk people in there and
you got to somehow like connect with them, or you're
trying to make tips to pay the band. How do
you like get some money out of people? How do
you learn? You got to learn every cover song, you know,
back then, there wasn't an iPad to like kind of cheat.
(21:05):
You had to like just know the song. Someone asked
for a song, and you're trying to put some money
on the tip jar, you kind of have to know it.
And I had these books back home where it's just
like so many lyrics, I just write all these every
page BI like a country song and you just write
all the lyrics out and then the back of that
on the backside would be like bluegrass songs. And I
had like four of those these books. Each one's probably
got one hundred pages so of songs I just needed
(21:29):
to know to play down there. Then you know the
writing cup, like just getting better as a songwriter. You know, well,
that's first you gotta work on your own as a writer,
and then you want to write with some people that
are better than you to try to level up, and
then you want to go back to writing on your own.
Then some contemporaries, and so there's just all these like
little things I felt like you had to constantly be
working on to get better at. There's just you know,
there's just a lot that goes into it. It's not
(21:49):
just just one thing. So yeah, I was just looking
at what I could do to get better at being
who I wanted to be. There's always something to work
on even now. And certainly the craft of songwriting. You know,
these songs that you listen to the radio, that like
you're saying, is tell a story and take you on
a journey. It's really hard to do that. It sounds
like just rolls off the tongue, and it's really hard
to make it sound like you just rolled off the
writer's tongue. I mean, it's just like the craft of writing,
(22:10):
over and over and over again. When I first moved
to Nashville, I had like thirteen songs all typed up
in a folder, and they're very precious to me. These
are my songs. Oh my gosh. I was shown them
to people when I was, you know, working for a
staffing organization around town. I remember I was playing songs
one day for somebody and he said to me, I
played for a bunch of people and like five people,
(22:31):
and they all had like really real criticism, you know,
like helpful criticism. Up to that point, I'd only been
like gotten positive feedback from friends and family. One of
the guys said, you need to write five hundred songs
and put them all in a drawer and then come
find me and a'll write with you. And I remember
thinking like, wow, this guy, what did jark? I mean?
Nobody can Nobod's gonna write five hundred songs and put
him in a drawer. You know, you're gonna write one song,
(22:53):
go show it to everybody. But he was actually really right,
and that's really what goes into the craft. It is
just like doing it every day, not being precious about it.
One of the best songwriters I know, Tony Martin, he
writes on post it notes, you know, and then he
just the verse fits on one posted a note and
the chorus is allowed to have two post it notes,
and he gets some of the song. He just slaps
all the post it notes on top of each other
(23:14):
and he would stick them on top of the tape
like a cassette tape. That's how old I am, and
put a rubber band around it and throw in a
drawer and be like, all right, let's write another one.
I'm like, but that was so good. Should we do
something with that, like print that up. We'll get to
it later. Let's let's write another one. So I think
just learning not to be too precious with it. But
I mean, these guys and girls are right back in Nashville.
It's unbelievable the songs they write. And not to be
(23:34):
biased about country music, but I listened to pop radio
and there's super great hooks and catchy choruses, but like
to actually write a song from A to B, you know,
from the very beginning or to the very end, where
every word is connected to the next word, and every
line is connected to the next line. The story is
building and developing and edited down to you know, three
and a half minutes to pack all that emotional story
(23:55):
in there. Like that is such a skill.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, it's like every word counts in a country music
when you're putting a bunch of songs in a drawer,
right that you're writing, what happens to all.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Those sad a lot of songs out?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, Like when do you decide, Okay, this is one
that I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Actually there's so many songs in Nashville. You know right
now today how many songs you think we're written in Nashville.
I mean probably a thousand, like by the big the
great writers, maybe maybe may five hundred. And you know
how many those songs are going to make it to
on an album? You know, even though it might be
a great song, Like people hear them, they get passed
around town people and then like what do you give
me something new? What about that song I wrote last week? Yeah,
(24:30):
give us a new one? You know. So there's a
lot of songs that just like never go anywhere. That
there's great songs, and then a lot of songs that
make it to somebody's album. But then those songs don't
make it to be on the radio, and then they
just kind of live on the album and never get
heard again. So it's kind of a someone needs to
write a song about where do all the songs go?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Seriously don't get cut? Well, what is the formula to
a great country song?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
What are you looking for in a song? Because I
know you get a ton of songs pitched to you, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
We listened to a lot of songs and thousands of
songs for every record, and it just has to hit
you within the the first like ten seconds. Right, You're
going through a bunch of songs on a car ride
somewhere and you're listening and it could be a good song.
You might go, this is kind of interesting. I want
to see where it goes. But then you have to
remind yourself, like, I don't have time to go through
the whole song. So if it's not going to just
you don't feel it right away, just kind of go
(25:16):
to the next one. And it seems kind of like
a sad thing to do, like you're not giving that
songwriter a really a great chance to have their song heard.
But they understand everyone knows what works in Nashville. I mean,
but the people that are successful aren't overly precious, right
They know that the song will hopefully find the right home,
and so appreciative of you listening to it. I'm so
appreciate that they send me songs. I mean, it's it's
an incredible place to be in where people send you
songs that sound like something you would have maybe possibly written,
(25:39):
like on the best songwriting day of your life with
the help like a couple of friends and you get
these songs pitched you, and it's like you're super obviously
so grateful for that. But yeah, just a song that
really moves you in some way. I think country music
just has the ability to, you know, change your life.
One song can just like change your whole life. It
becomes such a big part of your life. Become like
(26:00):
you're you're you're mantra in away some of these songs.
So it's just writing stuff that moves you. Could be
a party song, could be a sad song, could be
a you know, life song that just there's so many
different angles out there, but just you know it when
you hear it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And there's a lot of songs over the years that
have become hit songs that I know you've even said
no to write. Like a story of a really popular
John Party song.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, I mean he and I you know, he might
have got to pitch the song the same time I got.
I don't know I got it first, but they throw
a lot of songs out of people. And I thought
it was a great song song called Dird of My Boots,
and I knew it was a big hit, but I
just knew it wasn't maybe the right song for me.
You know. And uh, I'm so glad I found John
because he's an incredible artist, and I'm sure he's a
story just like that. He probably got to pitched something
that he passed on that uh that I that I
(26:44):
picked up. I mean I hear songs that I've passed
on on the radio, you know, two years later or something.
And I'm sure people have done the same with songs
that I've end up recording. So it's a small I
mean it's it's a big city, but still pretty small
in that way where that community, the music community is
still pretty pretty tight knit.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, it's probably fun for you to hear the song
and finally yeah finds it.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Oh absolutely, it's like, oh there's there's its home. Yeah,
I found I found the right spot.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Do you remember the first time that you got recognized.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh, that's a great question. The first time I got recognized.
I remember the first time playing a show in It
was in Augusta, Georgia, and I had a song called
what Was I Thinking? And it talks about this girl
wearing a little white tank top, and I remember these
girls came out to show with like wearing little white
tank tops. I remember, I think that's so so crazy
and so cool and like, I mean, they literally are
dressing because of the song. I mean, I was like,
(27:30):
that's like my first memory of like any sort of
like fame or success or anything. I was like, Wow,
they literally are wearing that. I think they're like writing
on or two or something because of like this song.
I was like, that is like something I never even
thought was a dreamed about, you know, that was even
a thing. So so I of being recognized. I don't
get overly recognized in a good way. You know. I
(27:52):
don't do a lot of podcasts. I don't do a
lot of uh. I mean, I've done some. I do
TV stuff when it helps, like when I think it
directly helps, Like the tours. That's all I'm pretty much
focused on. Is the tour. I hate. I don't. I
don't dislike. I love being recognized, love signing autographs. I
think it's amazing, but certainly not looking to be any
more famous than I am. I don't. That's the last
thing I want. I mean, the fame part, and ask
(28:12):
anyone in this town, that's about of the worst part
of the their deal. I really enjoy being to go
to home depot and just be an normal person and
go to Walmart and not be you know, not have
that level of fame. I love playing amazing. We're playing
today at the Into It Dome, you know, for IW
many thousand people this place holds and but I think
the greatest things about my gig is that I get
a chance to do all that and then the second
(28:33):
the show's over, I get to be whoever I want
to be, you know. Uh, And that's a lot of
that's being a dad, husband, pickleball player.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That's a pretty special situation.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
No, it's it's really it's hard to find. It's like
it's I hate to mess with what our formula. I
hate to like overly. I mean, every decision I make
is kind of based on that, like this is this
going to bring me anymore like fame? Because I really
don't even posting stuff on Instagram and stuff like you know,
it's like just some stuff you got to post and
know how it works. You got to got to keep
(29:05):
keep the algorithm happy. So you've got to put stuff
out there. But I try to only put stuff that's funny.
You know. It has a lot of we love a
lot of humor in our banding crew, and so but
I really don't want to add anything that's going to
make it. It would inhibit me from like being able
to move around as freely as I as I get
to move around.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I think that's what's cool about country music.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, it's that's why they're all coming to Nashville. Yeah
that's well La is moving there.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Well, it must be so cool though, Like I love
the journey that you just took a song because it's
amazing to hear about your life as a young kid
and then to see you now and you're playing at
the intu a Dome, you're playing at MSG.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It's all incredible. It's all been basic for me, just
like persistence and determination, you know, That's what it's like
my whole that's my key to success is just being
like just I remember I was listening to your Doll. Yeah,
maybe he was talking about one of his.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Quotes, and I was like, yeah, Jarman's going to love
knowing that Derek S. Bentley was a fan of his
lia Yeah, all he was great.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
A lot of stuff he's sayings like yep, yep, you
haven't resonated with so much of that, but certainly having
like a quote or you know, just something that he
was talking about, you know, persistence. I was like, that
is that was mine? For sure?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, you're on tour right now. We're here for the
Broken Branches tour. Your new album just came out. I
know we touched on this a little bit during the
pickleball session, but can you explain to everybody quickly what
the term broken branches means to you in life and
in your music.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, it's great. I mean when I heard the song
for the first time, I did not write this song,
got pitched to me and I just love the hook.
So it's the hook is broken branches off the family tree.
You know, we're all broken branches off the family tree.
And it's a story about pretty much everyone I know
in Nashville, a lot of delinquents who you know, who
moved there and love country music and they're you know,
(30:46):
we all wind up in these hockey talks and bars
playing music. You know, it's something that our parents didn't do,
and for a lot of us, something nobody in our
family did. So we're all these we're always these little
broken branches off the family tree. We've somehow wandered into
found ourselves in Nashville, Tennessee. Together and you know everyone
the whole town. It's just nobody's really from there, you know.
It's just a bunch of people that had this dream
(31:07):
of just doing something in the in the music business.
And so I love that title of the song. Got
my buddy John Anderson, who's a Country Music Hall of
Fame member, to be part of it, as well as
a new guy named Riley Green. So it's just the
three of us kind of just telling this funny story
about the broken branches that we are.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Well, I am so excited to hear you perform tonight
and this is going to be my first country concert.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Cool, so wow, very excited.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Let's end with the final piece of advice. Sure, what's
one thing that you would tell your younger self.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Just do something that you're really passionate about. I know
it's a cliche, but like the passion, if you're really
passionate about it, no matter how crazy it is, it'll
make the You know, it won't feel like work when
you're chasing after the dream of doing it, because you'll
just be getting getting pulled along, so you can push
having to push yourself. So live short, like, go for it,
chase it, and no matter how crazy, It is just
(31:57):
always choose the thing that gives you the most joy.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
It's great advice.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Thanks. My mom would say follow your bliss. That'd be
the short version of that. Follow Joseph Conrad, follow your bliss.
Joseph Campbell, not Joseph Conrad. It's not a Joseph Campbell, all.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Right, Thanks so much. Thanks'll, thank you guys so much
for tuning into today's episode. Your support means the world
to me and helps us continue bringing you inspiring conversations.
If you've been enjoying Post run High, please be sure
to follow the show so you never miss an episode.
Leave us a quick rating, and share this episode with
(32:32):
a friend. We've got great conversations coming your way and
you won't want to miss them. I'll see you guys
next week. I hope you got your post run High
going
Hi, guys, welcome back to Post Run High. Today's guest
is a country music legend, Dirk Spentley. He's been a
dream guest of mine for a while, and I had
a feeling you'd be just as excited to hear from
him as I was to sit down with him. The
moment we found out that Dirks would be in LA
for his Broken Branches tour and that he was open
to being on the show, we jumped into action. We
booked last minute flights, we sourced podcast equipment rentals in LA,
(00:28):
and we figured out every detail needed to pull this
off on the road across the country. It took some
serious behind the scenes hustle, but guys, we made it happen,
because when he get the chance to sit down with
someone like Dirk s Bentley, you take it. Now, this
episode is a little different. We didn't start with a run. Instead,
Dirk's invited me to play pickleball backstage with him and
his bandmates, So this is a shorter episode. We had
(00:49):
a quick thirty minute window right before Dirks went on stage,
but I think you'll feel how raw and grounded this
chat was. He's someone who has stayed at the top
of his industry for over two decades, and hearing his
take on longevity, balance and enjoying life was a real gift.
We've got so many more amazing guests on the way,
so please be sure to rate and review the show,
follow along on socials, and DM me with any guest requests.
(01:12):
I always love hearing from you as we grow the
show together. And with that, let's get into my conversation
with Derek's Derek Spentley, Welcome to Poster on High.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here.
This is awesome. Yeah, excited to be on the set.
It's nice you guys to get that.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
We are currently at the Into It Dome.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, and that's like the New Year coming. They really
got it all spice stuff. This is not my dressing room,
but I'd be half if it was. I'd be so
happy to sitting at all these hearts. It'd be like
very positive vibes walk out on stage, way too relaxed
and just like happy. Yeah, that's not good.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
For everybody listening. Just to set the scene a little bit,
we are currently sitting in a room. This room really
stands out yet compared to the rest of the backstage
the rest of the backstage area, like all equipment to.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Hear line around them. Our rooms set up with people
work really hard on the tour to like make different
vibe rooms. So like our dress rooms pretty great. There's
like really, oh yeah, we'll good by, take look at
before we leave. But it's it's very homey and there's
lots of banners and flags up from previous tours and stuff,
so it feels very It's very similar. So no matter
where we are, there's that one room that always feels
like a home space.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, this is adorable. I feel like crazy, I
feel like I mean like Hannah Montana's dressing room.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
This. I wonder why they did this. It must be
like the player's kids are something that come in here
and I have like a probably a play room drink.
While the Clippers are playing basketball, they come in here,
and like maybe the wives hang out here. I don't know.
It's very different from our usual goad vibe.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, I'm loving it. For everybody listening that wants to
know what we're talking about. There's basically hearts hanging dripping
down the walls. It's beautiful. We're sitting in these really
cool velvet chairs. So we're in a great podcasting that.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I feel like this room a little meditation.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah, this room was made for us. We just got
back from playing a little bit of Yeah you're quite
the pickleball player.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, what I lack in skill, I try to make
up with a lot of antics. Basically, you know, whatever
it takes to get the win. Pretty much, that's pretty
much my life philosophy when I you know, just do
whatever it takes to get the job done. So I
was playing against Ben up there Ore, a guitar player
who's really great. He loves pickleball, but almost to get
the mouth chirping a little bit, I can kind of
get some points off. I'm just just off that. But
it is funny something we do before every show. We'll
(03:16):
try to find a way to do something. And years
past I've done a lot of biking. I actually have
a trailer that has like ten bikes in the back
of it. You still like just gravel and road and biking.
We're out here and played golf a lot, and I
used to be out of here. I've been doing this
for twenty years, but in the last couple of years
it's been doing pick a ball. It's so easy because
you can kind of just do it on site, like
today we tape that court up on the on the
(03:37):
basketball court upstairs. A lot of times, a majority of
this time this tour is outside, so we'll just do
it in the parking lot. We'll just tape some lines
up in the parking lot and kind of call it
prison ball because you never noticed where the pickle ball
is going to go. It's like you're playing in the
in the prison lot or something. Or we'll go find
court somewhere. But it's just a good way to kind
of like you know, get off the bus and get
some sort of like exercise in before getting off her day.
(03:58):
And it's just so important. What I love about your
podcast and the whole approach to doing something active before
you talk is it's so true. There's a buddy Mine
guy named John Raimi wrote a book called Spark and
it was all about like this thesis idea that kids
will performed better at school that it you know, some
exercise for they walked into the classroom. And so he
did this study of Missouri and you had the kids
(04:19):
on like a mile every day before school started, and
like there's test scores are like way better so that's
a very terrible summary of the book, but it's so true.
It just gives you such a you know, it's so
important for your.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Brain, it does. It makes you feel good, makes you
more productive. Travis Barker, drummer, not the artist. I'm pretty
sure before a lot of his concerts he does like
a run with some of his fans, and that's how
he gets ready for before he gets on stage. So
I like knowing that it's a common thing for you
guys as artists that you get a little bit of
activity in before you perform. Yeah, I mean, it makes
(04:51):
you feel better right before you get on stage.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
A lot of years, it wasn't like that. In the
early years, it was not getting off the bus until
the sun had gone down and then staying up until
it came up. You know, it's been the rest of
the day forty much sleeping or playing video games. So
trying to learn as they get older, you know, trying
to grow.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
What does movement look like for you in your life
and how do you feel like it translates into your
work and into your music.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, I mean my favorite thing is to be outside
doing something active. I mean, my team back home knows
if it's a sunny day outside, it's I'm not gonna
want to be in the studio. I'm not gonna we
want to be writing songs. We want to go do
something that day off to go. I take advantage of ease.
It's hard for me being side when it's nice outside,
but yeah, it's always been really uh important to me.
I mean, I just I love just anything outdoors. It's biking.
(05:37):
I love mountain biking, you know, throwing a rucksack on
and doing that whole thing, and hiking nearby trails. Uh,
just pickleball obviously, tennis, I love skiing from my favorite sport.
Especially as you get older too, it's like he's like,
you know, you got a finite amount of like use
left in your body, so it's like you want to
take advantage of every chance you get. On the road.
(05:59):
It's just hard. I mean, you'd really have to be
a good sleeper to be like a good road person.
And uh, you know, these guys know because my last
week was so bad. I had like literally two nights
in a row no sleep at all, like zero hours,
just because either the hotel room had no air conditioning
or the bus had a transmission issue was like jerking
around and then I got like one hour sleep the
third night, and then you know, maybe five and then zero,
(06:20):
and it's just like it's so a lot of times
you're riding here on the road, it's just like survival.
I mean, all your you have these plans, come out
here and we're gonna be so healthy, we're gonna just
just do all this stuff, and then you get out here,
it's like, oh my god, I'm just like holding on
to my next you know, drink before I walk on stage,
and like just you have just enough energy sometimes just
like go cross that show and then it's like the
rest of the time out it's just like survival getting
(06:40):
ready for the next one. That's some days now. Some
days it's great, like today it's pretty god last night
and we gon'll play a little pickball and it's you
know better. But really you're just in when you're on
the road, you're just kind of in service of the
show and whatever it takes, like make sure that two
hour period on stage is like not only a great
experience for the fans obviously, but also for you and
you in your your band, everyone, your your family, everyone.
(07:02):
You're making a sacrifice from to be away from. You
have to make sure that time on stage is just
like the most epic awesome thing. So whatever it takes
to get like just two hours of like crazy energy.
You know, some days that is just like not doing
a whole lot, just sitting in your bunk. And then
some days it's like getting out there and trying to
be super you know, do something active. But it's just
kind of a day by.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Day basis, you know, and it really is like a marathon.
You gotta pace yourself crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah. I mean there's like our guy's Dan who was
playing pickaball are footle player. You talk to him, he's like,
he just pisses me off because we could just be
sitting somewhere and all a sudden he just falls asleep.
That is.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Sitting up in a really uncom I'll.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Be lying next to my wife like just thinking about
those steps I need to take to like begin the
process of maybe falling asleep, you know, which is where
the pills need to be positioned. And also I like
that jerk, and I'm like, you're kidding me, Like we've
been in bed for like five seconds, you're already out.
So but as that is helpful to have that that quality,
but you just find whatever you need to do to
(08:02):
get done. And my wife was always the first one.
She's like, if you don't feel good, if you're tired,
go do something, Go run and go bike, Like it's
it's how you like manufacture energy energy?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And how often are you on tour? Like, I know
you kind of joked around during the pickleball portion where you.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Were it started in two thousand and two, but like.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
How often, Yeah, how often are you on Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
No, Now it's like it's pretty much just the summer.
You three kids and a pretty busy like schedule back home,
so it's pretty much just like what makes.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
The summer your time to go on tour? Like why
is because.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
They're all scattered too, Like my son's at a camp
in North Carolina, my daughter's up in New York, my
other daughters and another sleep away camp, so some are
just like we're all just going so many different directions.
It's kind of like it's a good time to be
out there in the road in the winter and in
the school year. There's just like a lot going on
with these little kids and their their hopes and dreams
and a lot of car driving for me a lot
(08:53):
ubering around for the driving these guys around places. But
summer's just a good time to be out here, just
it and it's fun. It's scared time to be on
the road. You know, everyone's excited to be outside and
go to concerts.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So your kids must think it's so cool what their
dad does for a living.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
My family loves music. I mean, they're crazy uber fans.
When I'm home, if there's a concert playing in town,
we're probably like see you know, But they just think
of like, they know what. I love music, and they
love it on the road. But they used to come
out a lot back when they're younger, and we did
all the kiddie pools and putt golf courses across the country.
And now they're off doing their.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Own things, chasing their own dreams.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Let's back it up a little bit. How does a
boy from Phoenix, Arizona fall in love with grassroots country music.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
My dad was a big part of it, you know.
My dad loved country music so and my sister was
three years older than me, and she loved music in general,
not so much country. She loved like you two and
just all that great like eighties music. You know, We're
just then was so great? Is that there wasn't a phone,
you know, so like there wasn't a lot of like
other distractions. It's like music was it, you know in movies.
(10:08):
I guess too, But music was like the cultural currency,
you know, who do you like? What do you like?
What have you heard about? What posters you have hanging
in your room? Who are you gonna go see? It
was just that's all that really was.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It was.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It was so she loved. My sister loved music. My
dad loved country music. We listened to a lot in
the car, and I always enjoyed listening to it. It
wasn't really my thing, but I liked it. And then thirteen,
I discovered the electric guitar. Friend of mine, a new
kid in school, had electric guitar to his house, and
I just remember going over there and like hearing it
for the first time and like it. Just I remember thinking, Wow,
(10:41):
it's so cool. You can really change whatever mood you're
in just by picking this thing up and playing it,
you know. So I fell in love with electric guitar.
He was a really great guitar player, and he was
like steadily progressing a lot faster than me, even though
we were both playing a lot. Story of my life,
I don't think I was meant to be a guitar player,
though I do love all kinds of guitar, bluegrass guitar
and great flat picking and and then I was a
(11:02):
huge Van Halen fan growing up with because of him,
so really getting all that kind of music. And I
was just going down different roads musically. But I really
fell in love with country music in high school. A
friend of mine was he saw me, you know, I
electric guitar in my room and I was always trying to,
you know, play these power chords and stuff and just
hadn't really found what I was looking for. And he
like sat me down and said, you have to listen
(11:23):
to these songs. And he played me like three songs
and it was just like one of those crazy moments
in life you just know, without knowing what you're meant
to do. Uh, and there's a very crazy idea to
chase that. But I was right there. I was like,
that's what I want to do, this guy, this is
the music I was looking for my whole life really
in some way. So yeah, So from about seventeen on,
(11:44):
I mean it was just like obsessed with country music.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And what were those songs that he played for you?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It was a Hank Junior song called Manda Man and
just this loud. You know, a lot of electric guitar. Hank.
You know, if you think Junior at all, he's just
like a very crazy the personality, great songwriter, great can
play all the instruments, very loud, sing songs about like
naked women and beer stuff when you're seventeen, really sounds cool.
(12:08):
He actually has a song called Naked Women and beer.
Sorry handle, it's appropriately not, but when you're seventeen years older,
you're like, that's a pretty cool song. He's just crazy guy.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Classic country, classic country.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, there is one of a kind, and Hank Junior,
he's one of a kind. And then you know, Alan
Jackson was a big part of that Midnight Montgomery their
song by Marty Stewart, and I just fell in love
with it, and I got to Nashville, in to Vanderbilt
for college, went there. I went to UVM for a year,
but I was up there watching CMT country music television
and just obsessed with country, and I knew I needed
(12:39):
to get to Nashville somehow. So I was able to
to get in and to transfer.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
But let's let's dive into UVM for a second. So
you get to UVM, you're a freshman on campus.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, So I was in a fraternity and
great guys. I mean really I love that school. I
tried to go to Boulder, where my wife actually gone,
but I didn't. I didn't get in, but this is
great guys that I was in the essay house and
just really nice people there. You know, there's a little
country bar in town called JP's, and I was always
down at JP's hanging out, and I was always back
(13:09):
watching CMT and I was working on songs and I
got really great grades that semester. And because I knew
Vanderbilt would be a hard school to get into, but yeah,
I remember during on the chapter meetings, I's just like,
as I'm I'm leaving, I got into this school and
I know what I want to do, and they're all
supportive but kind of bummed out, and as I was too,
because it was really great. That was kind of like,
in some ways, my whole college experience was like that
(13:29):
one year. Because I got to Vanderbilt. The first day
I got there, I got an internship with the Country
Music Association and have my own study syllabus. It was
all downtown listening to the bands playing. You know, I
was just obsessed with like songwriter Nights and Lower Broadway
and all the people playing on Lower Broadway and all
of it. There's great bands playing all over Nashville. And
(13:50):
I was just constantly going to watch bands, to listen
to songwriter rounds and to see how people do it,
working on my own songs, learning cover songs, trying to
get better on the guitar, trying to learn how the
business works. And I finished school, but I I mean,
I didn't go to the graduation. I'm not kind of
it's an expensive three year, you know program of I
(14:14):
had my own like side education going on. But I
needed that time to like work on my craft.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And learn the craft of country music in the place
where it all came.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, I've learned Big city and how does it I
didn't have any connections there and know anybody in the business,
And how do you even get started on getting a
record deal or a publishing deal or you know, playing
gigs downtown and getting see you know, just and but
through it all, it was just a love of like music,
just love of like country music and being in a
band beyond stage. So that's kind of It wasn't so much.
I mean, it's work, but it's more just like when
(14:45):
you're really passionate about something, it kind of pulls you
forward as opposed to you hav to like push yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
No, you figure out how to make it happen, especially
when you're that age and you're like, I'm going to
do this thing.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
There's a will, there's a way, right, You'll find a
way to make it work. And then you look back
and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I
did all that. I used to like load my car
up with like the PA system. I had these two
fifteen inch speakers. We would go on these racks, this
big heavy board that had the EQ and all this
crap that I didn't even have to work. I know,
if I just plug these things in and made a
little smiley face with the EQ, it probably sound like
where it needs to sound. But I would like park
my truck in front of the gig and unload all
(15:18):
this stuff with the lights on, hopefully not get a ticket,
and settle this crap up and then go park my
car come back for a four hour gig, have a
few drinks, and then you know, HOPEU those drinks will
wind down a little bit and then all that ship
all that stuff back up again and go back home.
And I mean it was like it was so much crazy,
like physical work, right, and.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
To now think about where you are and the production
that goes into it and all the team members that
you had.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Now stually even looking on all your stuff, I'm curious
once you kind of do a little of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Well, but when you first started out, it was just you,
no band, just you your guitar and going for it.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Me and I had a little piece of paper that
I still have somewhere. I've lost so much stuff along
the way, but it was like all these phone numbers
for like steal guitar players. I had, like, you know,
five guys, and I had to keep writing new names
in or fiddle players and drummers and guitar players. Had
a sheet of paper so if someone canceled on me,
I could call ask me like, hey, you know you available.
I gotta I gotta ten to two tonight, you know it.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, that's a pretty good sheet of paper to have you. Yeah,
gotta have that when you got to Nashville, did you
feel like I don't fit in here?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. I
certainly felt that way for sure too, Like just coming
to town. Even though like having a college like college
degree wasn't that kind of like that's something you would
talk about, you know, back things, it was kind of like, yeah,
it was kind of frowned upon to have like a
college to come from college. It was just not cool.
I don't know, it's like changed a lot since then,
but uh, yeah, for that being from Arizona, everyone was
(16:40):
dressed like super Garth Brooks, you know, whe at the
starts jeans and a big belt buckle and what was.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Your look at the time, Like paint the picture of
Derreks Bentley at nineteen gosh, I mean I.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Really got turned onto bluegrass music. There's a little bar
that was playing where I walked in. It was nineteen
and those guys knew more about the people on music
Row as far as like they knew Johnny Cash and
they could do all do all Johnny Cash songs and
George Jones and but also like Bill Monroe and Stanley
Brothers all the bluegrass stuff too. But they were just
dressing like white sneakers and baggy jeans and some T
(17:09):
shirt that was like two sizes too big. You know,
there's no like there's and I really gravitate towards those guys.
There's all about the music first and like and then
you go up on music row and everyone's dressed a
certain way, but they're not even writing their own songs,
you know, the record labels kind of telling them how
to dress, what to what songs to cut, what producer
to work with. And I was like, well, that's definitely
(17:30):
not gonna work for me. So somewhere in between, you
I always had my boots and jeans and just you know, nowadays,
anybody will just pop a cowboy hat on. You know,
it's like one day, now I'm a hat act all
of a sudden. Back then, it was like a thing,
aed are you Are you a hat act or not?
Are you? I'm not? No? Okay, so but but no,
So that wasn't one of those guys. But I just
I'm just some of they just loved like in the
(17:50):
country music, the history of it, and probably knew more
about it, you know, than any of my contemporaries at
that time. Where by a lot of people music are.
I was just obsessed with like old school country music
and old school like going back to like you know,
just early Whalen and Willie and all the all the
way back to you know, Hank Junior and Hank Hank
Senior rather and let you for Zell and just love
the history of the music and the whole the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
When I think about country music, I think a lot about,
like I feel like, through the songs and the stories
that you hear in them, it's all about the journey
and the experiences that people have, right, Like, there's a
lot of soul in all the songs that you hear
people singing. Were there any formative experiences that you had
in those early days that really shaved who you are
and your voice?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I was playing downtown for a lot of years, and
I had friends that would get like record deals, you know,
while I was just kind of still down their plane
and you know, you're hearing stories about who's getting signed
or what's going on. But luckily for me, I just
love playing so much. It wasn't like my primary focus
wasn't like getting like a record deal. It's just like
just playing that gig and just having fun and seeing
those songs, and of course I was working on a
(18:52):
bunch of stuff when I wasn't down there as far
as songwriting and meetings and whatnot. But you know, one
night Vince Gill came down and joined us on stage
for like an hour, and that was like a really
big deal that someone like if his statue would come
singh sitting with us this little tiny stage had a
TV above us. You know, we'd be we're until the
story many times before, but also in the crowd with
(19:12):
the crowd, like all five people if they're even there,
would start cheering about something. It's and you'd look down,
thinking something you did in your guitar. It's because someone
hit a home run on the TV above your stage,
which is actually there's nights I wish there's a TV
above the stage. It's actually pretty great. You know, people just.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Cane diction and just watch that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I guess we kind of have that here. We've had
a really big TV out here, our video our video
wall on at the show tonight. But yeah, you know,
I just kept plugging along, and oddly enough, my drummer
who's still with us today, he was working in the
in one of the publishing companies, and he took me
over to take a meeting, and that meeting led to
just more doors opening up. And I've had some great
mentors along the way, songwriters, Guys that I grew up admiring,
(19:53):
just working writing songs together with in the studio, learning
how to like you know, talk to a band and
make records. So there's been a lot of people on
the way, but I think that's probably one of my
main strengths is just like surrounding myself with great people,
you know, people that know more about everything than I do,
like with my band on stage, incredible musicians, you know,
(20:13):
So surrounding yourself with musicians that are better than you.
Pretty smart people, mostly women, A lot of smart women
in my life. And yeah, oh yeah and out here
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So yeah, when you think about country music, and you
said it earlier, the term like learning the craft, what
goes into learning the craft of becoming a great country singer,
(20:43):
a great country artist.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
There's so many That's such a great question because I
used to think about that a lot, Like there's all
these cups that you have to like kind of fill, right,
like how to be talk to people on stage. You know,
you've got a bunch of drunk people in there and
you got to somehow like connect with them, or you're
trying to make tips to pay the band. How do
you like get some money out of people? How do
you learn? You got to learn every cover song, you know,
back then, there wasn't an iPad to like kind of cheat.
(21:05):
You had to like just know the song. Someone asked
for a song, and you're trying to put some money
on the tip jar, you kind of have to know it.
And I had these books back home where it's just
like so many lyrics, I just write all these every
page BI like a country song and you just write
all the lyrics out and then the back of that
on the backside would be like bluegrass songs. And I
had like four of those these books. Each one's probably
got one hundred pages so of songs I just needed
(21:29):
to know to play down there. Then you know the
writing cup, like just getting better as a songwriter. You know, well,
that's first you gotta work on your own as a writer,
and then you want to write with some people that
are better than you to try to level up, and
then you want to go back to writing on your own.
Then some contemporaries, and so there's just all these like
little things I felt like you had to constantly be
working on to get better at. There's just you know,
there's just a lot that goes into it. It's not
(21:49):
just just one thing. So yeah, I was just looking
at what I could do to get better at being
who I wanted to be. There's always something to work
on even now. And certainly the craft of songwriting. You know,
these songs that you listen to the radio, that like
you're saying, is tell a story and take you on
a journey. It's really hard to do that. It sounds
like just rolls off the tongue, and it's really hard
to make it sound like you just rolled off the
writer's tongue. I mean, it's just like the craft of writing,
(22:10):
over and over and over again. When I first moved
to Nashville, I had like thirteen songs all typed up
in a folder, and they're very precious to me. These
are my songs. Oh my gosh. I was shown them
to people when I was, you know, working for a
staffing organization around town. I remember I was playing songs
one day for somebody and he said to me, I
played for a bunch of people and like five people,
(22:31):
and they all had like really real criticism, you know,
like helpful criticism. Up to that point, I'd only been
like gotten positive feedback from friends and family. One of
the guys said, you need to write five hundred songs
and put them all in a drawer and then come
find me and a'll write with you. And I remember
thinking like, wow, this guy, what did jark? I mean?
Nobody can Nobod's gonna write five hundred songs and put
him in a drawer. You know, you're gonna write one song,
(22:53):
go show it to everybody. But he was actually really right,
and that's really what goes into the craft. It is
just like doing it every day, not being precious about it.
One of the best songwriters I know, Tony Martin, he
writes on post it notes, you know, and then he
just the verse fits on one posted a note and
the chorus is allowed to have two post it notes,
and he gets some of the song. He just slaps
all the post it notes on top of each other
(23:14):
and he would stick them on top of the tape
like a cassette tape. That's how old I am, and
put a rubber band around it and throw in a
drawer and be like, all right, let's write another one.
I'm like, but that was so good. Should we do
something with that, like print that up. We'll get to
it later. Let's let's write another one. So I think
just learning not to be too precious with it. But
I mean, these guys and girls are right back in Nashville.
It's unbelievable the songs they write. And not to be
(23:34):
biased about country music, but I listened to pop radio
and there's super great hooks and catchy choruses, but like
to actually write a song from A to B, you know,
from the very beginning or to the very end, where
every word is connected to the next word, and every
line is connected to the next line. The story is
building and developing and edited down to you know, three
and a half minutes to pack all that emotional story
(23:55):
in there. Like that is such a skill.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, it's like every word counts in a country music
when you're putting a bunch of songs in a drawer,
right that you're writing, what happens to all.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Those sad a lot of songs out?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, Like when do you decide, Okay, this is one
that I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Actually there's so many songs in Nashville. You know right
now today how many songs you think we're written in Nashville.
I mean probably a thousand, like by the big the
great writers, maybe maybe may five hundred. And you know
how many those songs are going to make it to
on an album? You know, even though it might be
a great song, Like people hear them, they get passed
around town people and then like what do you give
me something new? What about that song I wrote last week? Yeah,
(24:30):
give us a new one? You know. So there's a
lot of songs that just like never go anywhere. That
there's great songs, and then a lot of songs that
make it to somebody's album. But then those songs don't
make it to be on the radio, and then they
just kind of live on the album and never get
heard again. So it's kind of a someone needs to
write a song about where do all the songs go?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Seriously don't get cut? Well, what is the formula to
a great country song?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:50):
What are you looking for in a song? Because I
know you get a ton of songs pitched to you, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
We listened to a lot of songs and thousands of
songs for every record, and it just has to hit
you within the the first like ten seconds. Right, You're
going through a bunch of songs on a car ride
somewhere and you're listening and it could be a good song.
You might go, this is kind of interesting. I want
to see where it goes. But then you have to
remind yourself, like, I don't have time to go through
the whole song. So if it's not going to just
you don't feel it right away, just kind of go
(25:16):
to the next one. And it seems kind of like
a sad thing to do, like you're not giving that
songwriter a really a great chance to have their song heard.
But they understand everyone knows what works in Nashville. I mean,
but the people that are successful aren't overly precious, right
They know that the song will hopefully find the right home,
and so appreciative of you listening to it. I'm so
appreciate that they send me songs. I mean, it's it's
an incredible place to be in where people send you
songs that sound like something you would have maybe possibly written,
(25:39):
like on the best songwriting day of your life with
the help like a couple of friends and you get
these songs pitched you, and it's like you're super obviously
so grateful for that. But yeah, just a song that
really moves you in some way. I think country music
just has the ability to, you know, change your life.
One song can just like change your whole life. It
becomes such a big part of your life. Become like
(26:00):
you're you're you're mantra in away some of these songs.
So it's just writing stuff that moves you. Could be
a party song, could be a sad song, could be
a you know, life song that just there's so many
different angles out there, but just you know it when
you hear it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And there's a lot of songs over the years that
have become hit songs that I know you've even said
no to write. Like a story of a really popular
John Party song.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, I mean he and I you know, he might
have got to pitch the song the same time I got.
I don't know I got it first, but they throw
a lot of songs out of people. And I thought
it was a great song song called Dird of My Boots,
and I knew it was a big hit, but I
just knew it wasn't maybe the right song for me.
You know. And uh, I'm so glad I found John
because he's an incredible artist, and I'm sure he's a
story just like that. He probably got to pitched something
that he passed on that uh that I that I
(26:44):
picked up. I mean I hear songs that I've passed
on on the radio, you know, two years later or something.
And I'm sure people have done the same with songs
that I've end up recording. So it's a small I
mean it's it's a big city, but still pretty small
in that way where that community, the music community is
still pretty pretty tight knit.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, it's probably fun for you to hear the song
and finally yeah finds it.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Oh absolutely, it's like, oh there's there's its home. Yeah,
I found I found the right spot.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Do you remember the first time that you got recognized.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh, that's a great question. The first time I got recognized.
I remember the first time playing a show in It
was in Augusta, Georgia, and I had a song called
what Was I Thinking? And it talks about this girl
wearing a little white tank top, and I remember these
girls came out to show with like wearing little white
tank tops. I remember, I think that's so so crazy
and so cool and like, I mean, they literally are
dressing because of the song. I mean, I was like,
(27:30):
that's like my first memory of like any sort of
like fame or success or anything. I was like, Wow,
they literally are wearing that. I think they're like writing
on or two or something because of like this song.
I was like, that is like something I never even
thought was a dreamed about, you know, that was even
a thing. So so I of being recognized. I don't
get overly recognized in a good way. You know. I
(27:52):
don't do a lot of podcasts. I don't do a
lot of uh. I mean, I've done some. I do
TV stuff when it helps, like when I think it
directly helps, Like the tours. That's all I'm pretty much
focused on. Is the tour. I hate. I don't. I
don't dislike. I love being recognized, love signing autographs. I
think it's amazing, but certainly not looking to be any
more famous than I am. I don't. That's the last
thing I want. I mean, the fame part, and ask
(28:12):
anyone in this town, that's about of the worst part
of the their deal. I really enjoy being to go
to home depot and just be an normal person and
go to Walmart and not be you know, not have
that level of fame. I love playing amazing. We're playing
today at the Into It Dome, you know, for IW
many thousand people this place holds and but I think
the greatest things about my gig is that I get
a chance to do all that and then the second
(28:33):
the show's over, I get to be whoever I want
to be, you know. Uh, And that's a lot of
that's being a dad, husband, pickleball player.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That's a pretty special situation.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
No, it's it's really it's hard to find. It's like
it's I hate to mess with what our formula. I
hate to like overly. I mean, every decision I make
is kind of based on that, like this is this
going to bring me anymore like fame? Because I really
don't even posting stuff on Instagram and stuff like you know,
it's like just some stuff you got to post and
know how it works. You got to got to keep
(29:05):
keep the algorithm happy. So you've got to put stuff
out there. But I try to only put stuff that's funny.
You know. It has a lot of we love a
lot of humor in our banding crew, and so but
I really don't want to add anything that's going to
make it. It would inhibit me from like being able
to move around as freely as I as I get
to move around.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I think that's what's cool about country music.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, it's that's why they're all coming to Nashville. Yeah
that's well La is moving there.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Well, it must be so cool though, Like I love
the journey that you just took a song because it's
amazing to hear about your life as a young kid
and then to see you now and you're playing at
the intu a Dome, you're playing at MSG.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
It's all incredible. It's all been basic for me, just
like persistence and determination, you know, That's what it's like
my whole that's my key to success is just being
like just I remember I was listening to your Doll. Yeah,
maybe he was talking about one of his.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Quotes, and I was like, yeah, Jarman's going to love
knowing that Derek S. Bentley was a fan of his
lia Yeah, all he was great.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
A lot of stuff he's sayings like yep, yep, you
haven't resonated with so much of that, but certainly having
like a quote or you know, just something that he
was talking about, you know, persistence. I was like, that
is that was mine? For sure?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, you're on tour right now. We're here for the
Broken Branches tour. Your new album just came out. I
know we touched on this a little bit during the
pickleball session, but can you explain to everybody quickly what
the term broken branches means to you in life and
in your music.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, it's great. I mean when I heard the song
for the first time, I did not write this song,
got pitched to me and I just love the hook.
So it's the hook is broken branches off the family tree.
You know, we're all broken branches off the family tree.
And it's a story about pretty much everyone I know
in Nashville, a lot of delinquents who you know, who
moved there and love country music and they're you know,
(30:46):
we all wind up in these hockey talks and bars
playing music. You know, it's something that our parents didn't do,
and for a lot of us, something nobody in our
family did. So we're all these we're always these little
broken branches off the family tree. We've somehow wandered into
found ourselves in Nashville, Tennessee. Together and you know everyone
the whole town. It's just nobody's really from there, you know.
It's just a bunch of people that had this dream
(31:07):
of just doing something in the in the music business.
And so I love that title of the song. Got
my buddy John Anderson, who's a Country Music Hall of
Fame member, to be part of it, as well as
a new guy named Riley Green. So it's just the
three of us kind of just telling this funny story
about the broken branches that we are.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Well, I am so excited to hear you perform tonight
and this is going to be my first country concert.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Cool, so wow, very excited.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Let's end with the final piece of advice. Sure, what's
one thing that you would tell your younger self.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Just do something that you're really passionate about. I know
it's a cliche, but like the passion, if you're really
passionate about it, no matter how crazy it is, it'll
make the You know, it won't feel like work when
you're chasing after the dream of doing it, because you'll
just be getting getting pulled along, so you can push
having to push yourself. So live short, like, go for it,
chase it, and no matter how crazy, It is just
(31:57):
always choose the thing that gives you the most joy.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
It's great advice.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Thanks. My mom would say follow your bliss. That'd be
the short version of that. Follow Joseph Conrad, follow your bliss.
Joseph Campbell, not Joseph Conrad. It's not a Joseph Campbell, all.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Right, Thanks so much. Thanks'll, thank you guys so much
for tuning into today's episode. Your support means the world
to me and helps us continue bringing you inspiring conversations.
If you've been enjoying Post run High, please be sure
to follow the show so you never miss an episode.
Leave us a quick rating, and share this episode with
(32:32):
a friend. We've got great conversations coming your way and
you won't want to miss them. I'll see you guys
next week. I hope you got your post run High
going
Host
Kate Mackz
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