November 15, 2022 • 41 mins
Psychologist and scientist Dr. Alfie joins Cheryl to discuss the aftereffects of dating a narcissist and the brain’s response to trauma...Only to find out they share common experiences in their lives.
This episode is a real step forward for Cheryl and anyone that has personal barriers they need to overcome.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is Burke in the Game and I heard radio podcast.
Hey guys, welcome to Burke in the Game. I want
to just let you guys know again, thank you so
much for all of your love and support through this
vulnerable and UM, I guess really, I just feel stripped
down from everything that has been revealed that I've obviously
(00:27):
shared and have wanted to share with all of you
my listeners and and the world. Really, um, while still
dancing live on television, UM, on Dancing with the Stars.
It's interesting, you know, when I when I perform, even
though I'm still not in the competition yet, I'm still
doing pro numbers, I guess I feel more and more myself. UM.
(00:48):
Like when I performed the other night with I did
two numbers, two pro routines, and I was able to
really feel grounded, not in a physical sense, but also
I mean, I guess both physically and mentally. I always
thought of myself as living like two separate lives, like
me the one behind the mic that you hear now
and then the one behind the glitter. Really and now
(01:11):
I felt I felt different. I felt different that last
performance because there was like there was nothing to hide right,
Like there I have revealed all of me and um
to anybody that wanted to hear it or it wants
to hear it. And it was I think it really
helped me in my professional life in a weird way
and just helped me feel like I just am no
(01:33):
longer me against the world. It's more me and the
world and all of us just trying to be better,
I guess, And with that came a lot of comfort.
But let's talk about this last episode. This one was
really tough for me to hear back um. You know
(01:54):
there right away, I'm not gonna lie. There was moments
of feeling like, oh my god, what am I going
to hurt? So and so, Oh my gosh, am I
gonna get sued? Oh my gosh, did this happen? And
again I started questioning myself like did this happen? Or
is this my own my own story that I make
up in my head. And you know, as hard as
it was then, I also got really nervous about my
(02:17):
family and how they were going to handle it. And
I am still waiting for that reaction if I even
get one. You know, I know it's hard for my
parents sometimes to confront any type of situation um, they
kind of come. I'm sure a lot of you guys
can relate, and I understand, and I say this with
love only that you know, it's a lot easier said
(02:39):
than done, Like honestly, sometimes it's just better left unsaid
sometimes to confront somebody when you don't have the words
to say it, or if you're already feeling uncomfortable. Especially
my parents, you know, like all of this stuff, they
most likely not everything have they've never really heard before.
A lot of my stuff was revealed when I wrote
a book years ago, and even that, you know, it
(03:01):
was like, oh my gosh, you know, I you know,
I didn't have that type of relationship that I would
run home to my mom and tell her all the
details about anything because I was scared, you know, and
I just I don't know. It's interesting to see their
reactions sometimes and all the time it's always a text
message like I love you, we're worrying about you, And
(03:22):
I know that's their way of basically saying, we hear you,
you're scene, we love you, and we support you. Listen,
for all the parents out there, it's never too late
to um have these conversations with your kids or with
loved ones because it is needed, and I think it's
important for them to feel comfortable to open up to
(03:44):
you guys as well without judgment, and I think just
to be heard and there's no need to fix anything.
It is an experience sometimes that as an individual like
that I lived through and I would have been. I
guess it's just it's scary as it is, right, So
just I don't know when I'm a parent one day,
I guess what I'm going to try and do is
(04:05):
just make it comfortable enough for my kids to tell
me anything without judgment. Though easier said than done, I'm sure.
But anyway, I don't know where what what I'm trying
to get at other than this has been a tough
couple of weeks. But again, thank you guys so much
for your love and support and for for hearing me
and making me feel seen. I love you. Dr Alfie
(04:35):
Brilan Noble, known professionally as Dr Alfie, is a pioneering psychologist, scientist, author,
mental health correspondent, and the founder of the million dollar
nonprofit The A A Comma Project. She is an expert
in her field and you may know her as well
as she often joins Red Table talk with Jada Pinkett Smith,
Willow Smith, and Adrian A. K. Gammy Norris discussing suicide
(04:57):
in women's mental health. And you know she is also
a huge advocate for mental health in the black community,
with over twenty five years of experience and widely recognized
for her ability to draw in audiences and inspire. She
embodies her belief that there is enough love and light,
informed by strong, culturally relevant science to help everyone achieve
hashtag optimal mental health. Please welcome Dr Alfie. Hi, how
(05:21):
are you are you? Oh? Thank you? Uh my god.
I have to tell you first before we really get
into it, because I want my listeners to get to
know you and personally and professionally. But I just want
to thank you so much for just being there at
the Red Table, because it was a powerful and very
(05:42):
vulnerable conversation and so I am just so um grateful
for I guess your emotion behind it all. You're not
just a doctor, right, like you're not just a psychologist.
You actually reacted like a human being. And I am
very I guess um in tune with that type of stuff.
And it's uncomfortable to have these conversations, but it's so needed.
(06:05):
So I just want to thank you for doing this podcast. Um,
you know, we don't get listeners like they do over
there at Red Table Talk, right, Um, but I just
I mean, it's still so it's so powerful to this
day for me. So welcome to Burke in the game,
of course. And look when I got your message and
you said let's talk, I said, I'm not telling her no,
(06:29):
How can I tell you? Know? Because like you're just
so sweet and like to be who you are and
to be in this space and to be so vulnerable
and to allow people into your personal like just who
you are like that. People don't do that, and so
the fact that you were willing to do that, it's
just so meaningful for me obviously, And you saw the response.
(06:49):
So when you asked, I said, how can I say no?
Because I love kind people. I was telling my chief
of staff earlier and you are just the sweetest. So
it's my pleasure. Thank you so much. Well, let's get started.
I mean, we talk about everything on this podcast. There
is nothing I got, nothing to hide at all. Um,
I'm pretty sure I've said everything. I don't know if
(07:11):
I've left anything out, but maybe we'll figure this out later. Today.
But how, I guess, how did you get into this
uh whole mental health side of the world, Because it's
a huge pandemic in itself, I believe, and um, it's
I'm grateful for people like you, But how did you
become so knowledgeable? I guess, Um, the knowledgeable I don't
(07:31):
take credit for I just I've always been a good student,
So I'm I'm good about studying. Um. So there's that part.
And then I think beyond that, it has really just
been my passion for it is because there's so many
times in my own life when I think we talked
about this at the Red Table a little bit, when
I felt like people outside of my family weren't trying
(07:55):
very hard to understand me and weren't trying very hard
to connect with me. And so I grew up shared
this story a couple of times. So forgive me. UM.
I grew up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and in Virginia Beach,
that's where I learned a little bit of to Golic
that I knew was talking about that. A little bit
of the Golic is the huge Filipino population, name so
(08:16):
because of the Navy, and and so my childhood was
really trying, like sort of drifting between social circles, like
I never really felt like I had one, so the
black girl, I'm generation x UM, I just always struggled
to kind of find my space. So at home I
always felt safe and loved and comfortable. Outside of home,
I was really always kind of searching, And so I
(08:38):
think where I found my place was I became the
kid that everybody came to because I was nice, just
like you, like, so sweet and so warm and so welcoming.
I was that kid, and I think in some ways
that's how I protected myself. Like if I'm nice, if
I'm kind to everybody, maybe nobody will be mean to me,
you know what I mean. Yeah, it didn't always work
(08:59):
like that, So I think it was for me that's
where my passing four it came from. That was my
way to fit in. Got it, got it? You know,
I totally relate. I mean, actually I was not like
when I was in high school, UM or even middle school.
I was very shy, which came across as bitchy and
stuck up right so beautiful, right, people don't understand because
you're still pretty, like you know what I mean? But
(09:20):
I was Gothic. I was like the rebel. So like
I had like I swear to God, I was Gothic.
I had like I only wore black. I mean I
still love black. I mean, who doesn't look black? But like,
and then I had like the thick eyeliner. I mean
it was insane, um. And I had no friends because
I had I lived two different lives. I had ballroom
as one life, right, competitive and completely different, super glamorous
(09:41):
but not that glamourus at the same time. And then
you got my high school, right, and it's all different
types of ethnicities and every and I'm just like, I'm
just not good at school. First of all, I wasn't
curious back then. Now I am. I'd be a great
student today. But it was I was lonely. And then
it was just me and my my ex, right that
one that was very control alling and all that stuff
(10:01):
happened there, which we'll get into soon. But before we
do this, um, you know, I think, like I said earlier,
it has been such a crazy pandemic in itself mental health,
and I think it's been ashamed um as well, like
people especially from the Filipino culture, you know, like my elders.
(10:21):
They think that therapy means you're crazy, right. They equate
that to like, oh, someone's going crazy, you gotta go
take them to the therapy or a psychiatrist. What I
guess I'm such a huge advocate for therapy because even
my mom, she brought me to therapy right since I
was a little girl, ever since I got sexually abused
when I was four years old. And I guess what
(10:41):
are the other self practices for people who may not
want to go seek therapy or doesn't they don't have
the money too, or they don't know if there's ensure,
if they have their insurance covers it, or if they
just want some other ways of doing this and and
recovering or getting on the path to that. So first
I'm gonna say, IM gonna claim mama is my athe right,
(11:02):
so she's gonna be my because she took that baby.
She took her baby to get care when her baby
needed it. So shouts out to mama for that. I
think that some of the challenges for people are, you know,
they don't like to your point, they don't know where
to look, right, they don't know what they're looking for. Um,
they I don't think anybody's like explained how to go
(11:23):
about looking for a mental health provider to connect you with.
And so there's a lot of talk about everybody should
go therapi is dope, therapies cool, my therapist said, But
I think for so many people, particularly in diverse communities,
communities of color, there's still that heavy stigma. So they
gotta get over that barrier of heavy stigma. They want
to get over that. Okay, I'm gonna go. Then it's like, okay,
(11:43):
where do I look, right? And then they maybe they
find somebody. Then there are these wild weight times, or
the provider doesn't take insurance, or if they do take insurance,
they don't take your insurance right, or you know, so
they are all these barriers and people getting care. And
so what I say to people is until you can
get into that care right, understanding all the barriers and
(12:05):
knowing how important it is for people to have mental
health check up and mental health support, what are the
things that you can do in the interim, Right, It
may take you six weeks to get in with somebody, right,
it may take you three months to find somebody, and
then you're on the wait list. And so I think
it is how do we prioritize our mental health in
day to day? So I see all kinds of things
(12:26):
that talk about you can exercise, right, you have ballroom dancing,
other people have, they like to paint, they like are
they like nature? So finding the thing that you can
do now and meeting yourself to doing a little teeny
bit of that thing each day can be the thing
that helps get you that, you know, create that bridge
(12:48):
for you where you are now too when you're able
to get in with the mental health professional. And let's
be honest share some people are never gonna go to
the mental health professional for various reasons. So I always
people want people to have some tools, something they can
take care of themselves in the interim. So I know
it's not at the great answer to the question, but no, no,
(13:09):
it is absolutely. It's basically what you're trying to get
at as you're giving back to yourself, right, Like I
think that is filling your cup up. As as cliche
as that sounds, it really is. Even if it's fifteen
to twenty minutes, whether that be mindful meditation. You know,
I do transdental meditation twice a day. I try to
get that second just getting my ass in that chair
is really hard, that second one, but I'll try one
(13:33):
step at a type. But like it really there is
so many resources and no judgment um. And also you
don't have to parade around and talk about it like
I've been blessed to be able to write, like you
don't have to. You can tell this is for you
and yourself only. I think people forget that being selfish
isn't necessarily a bad thing. Oh my god. I a
long time ago, when I was much younger and I
(13:55):
was having some struggles in my own life, we talked
about little bit. I was going to ask about that. Yeah, girl,
it wolf, Yeah, yeah, it's it was. It was something
so in that I don't even give it context, but
that negative relationship that I was in, it was like
draining and it was overwhelming, and I was like I
(14:16):
was in my mind really young and just trying to
figure it out. And on the back end of that,
I definitely had my about with depression. Like one, there's
no question about it, Like it was. It was a
pretty severe depression. It wasn't debilitating in the sense that
it kept me from finishing school, but it was a struggle.
You know what I'm saying, like it really was. So
I had to seek out care. And so one of
(14:38):
the things, you know, that I remember from that time
is just how hard it was to kind of accept
that that's what I was dealing with, and at the
same time to also accept that I was worthy of
care because I had been so beaten down and made
to feel I'm not worthy of anything. So when you
(15:00):
were talking about like I get ter, when you were
talking about all those I was like, girl, I can relate. Um.
And I think at the time I was reading these
books and she's still very famous. Everybody still follows her.
Her name is Yama van Zan and she had this
book called Acts of Faith. This is I'm really dating myself.
It was hugely popular. And what I learned from that book,
one of the many things was it's not she would say,
(15:22):
it's not being selfish. She called it being self full,
and that reframe I needed that. I needed somebody to
say it is okay, and it is required if you
show up for yourself first before you can show up
for other people. So that's what it was. And she
was actually a guest here on Berkeley game. But yeah,
(15:44):
she's amazing, uh wow, And every word that comes out
of that woman's mouth is so powerful it gives me chills.
I was just like this and awe. I was like,
oh my gosh, powerful woman. And and that's the thing.
I mean, like, can you as obviously whatever you feel
comfortable with? I would love too, because, like I said,
(16:05):
you're human, right, and I think that you know, I've
had issues with this, not with my current therapists I've
been with for over a decade, but like, sometimes you
don't feel like the professional is human, right, like the
one that is asked telling you or or supporting you,
I guess is the better word through it all, Like
you almost feel like maybe this person's life at least,
(16:25):
this is what has gone through my mind. Are you
perfect or no? But I do believe that great therapists
are the therapists who have actually struggled because they can
relate to the trauma. Do you are you comfortable with
telling me a little bit about yours? Yeah? Of course.
So one of my traumas was rooted in lack of
(16:46):
self esteem growing up right, So, the earliest memories I
ever being a dark skinned black woman in the eighties,
late seventies, early to late eighties, where girls who look
like me were not considered attractive. Right, So Naomi Camel
and I, I think we're like the same age, maybe
a year apart. She didn't pop on the scene until
I was out of high school, so maybe like graduating
(17:06):
high So I didn't have a Naomi Campbell who's chocolate
like me to look and said, oh, everybody like, who
did you think? They only Campbells like drop that gorgeous?
You know what I mean? But I didn't have that,
And so what what I had was I would never
forget this woman. She's by racial she was Swedish and
something I can't remember. I could see her face and
she was the first black girl I ever saw on
(17:28):
the cover of seventeen magazine. She's still around. I just
can't remember her an age. That's what I saw. And
so when people saw black women, that's what they saw, right.
And I think about as I'm thinking about, I think
about my Filipino girlfriend. They had nobody either because you
didn't see you didn't see Filipinos never not a thing.
Still Bury barely still to the state barely now. So um,
(17:51):
I just as a side, you know, I'm just thinking
about reflecting on that. My best girlfriend when I was
a kid is Filipino and so um that was the struggle.
And so when I got went through college, I went
to Howard University for undergrad that i'd like changed my
life because everybody's black, Like, it completely changed my life.
I just felt so seen and efficient water. But there
(18:12):
were still issues around being a dark skinned black girl
and not that's still not being considered attracted. Fast forward,
So by the time I got into like my first
real relationship, it was traumatizing because I picked a person
I looked back now, I picked that person not based
on like the real qualities that I could see behaviors.
(18:35):
I picked that person to validate me, right, So me
with that person, it was, oh, well, if I can
get this person, I must be beautiful, you know. I mean,
that was all the wrong reasons to pick the person, right,
And so the behavior of that person, I'll just be honest,
ended up being very narcissistic. If I had to characterize it,
(18:57):
it was narcissistic personality disorder all over the place. And
anybody who's been in a relationship with anyone, any kind
of relationship with a person who has a narcissistic personality disorder,
you know, they can't see anything but themselves like this
both in life, right, they can't see you. And so
everything that someone might expect, like the belittling, the berating,
(19:22):
the oh you're gonna wear that outside, the isolating you
from your friends, all of that, I went through all
of that. I like all of it. And so you
just drink like you become a shell of a person.
So having had that experience, at the same time, there
were some other challenges. Um, when I was getting my
master's degree, living in New York with other like friends.
(19:44):
But those friends relationships that didn't go well were a
downward negative extension of that primary relationship that wasn't so
I you know what I mean, I was just in
a head stage. I couldn't make healthy friendships, so I
kept picking these people who just were not healthy for me,
even as friends. So those were those were my experiences.
(20:05):
And so when I talk about, you know, feeling depression,
when I talk about anxiety, which one's in my family,
when I talk about, you know, understanding narcissistic personalid this
or and then I had a boss who was a narcissist, right,
so you know what I mean. So so you attracted
I mean there is a void. There's a void that
me and you I can relate big time as you
(20:27):
know are are feeling. But like, do you think it
comes stems from ancestral trauma? Yeah, oh my god, the
inter generational trauma, because I look at my daughter who's
not quite as chocolate as I am and who has
hair like my like hair, and part of her not
having to deal with I think some things is because
(20:47):
I went through it, right, And so it's that if
it's that generational piece where I've worked, I've worked so
hard on healing. I'm not saying I got it all,
but I worked so hard on healing to change the pattern.
That's it, to change the pattern, because I eventually got
to a place where I could see it. But by
the same token, that doesn't mean she didn't go through stuff.
She just did a I'm a brag on it. She
(21:07):
did a Dove commercial where she talked about her hair
and a kid called her hair. He said it looked
like burnt spaghetti. Right, you're not just so the right.
So she went through the same thing, and she what
she didn't tell me talk about the energenerational trauma where
she waited and kind of tried to deal with it
on her own before she came to me, because she's like,
(21:28):
I didn't want you to blow up, and she knew
I would have, right, And so there's still the trauma.
But I think when you do what you've done, you
work on the healing. And when I do what I'm
try and continuing to try to do what's work on
the healing, that we're in a position to be able
to share with other I know, your multi racial, to
share with other multiracial girls or my case black girls,
(21:49):
or case Filipinas, to show them what healing can look
like for people who come from our background, so they
can have a different model and they can also see
the struggles that you're going through. You know, people say
you're not alone. They need to know if they're not alone,
that you can be dancing with the stars and like
(22:12):
global Superstar and still yes, yeah, like like, I mean,
this is the reason for this conversation and why I'm
so passionate about it. First of all, I've been blessed,
honestly to be able to talk about it period. Thank
God for my Really it comes back to my mom.
I mean, I'm so grateful for her just knowing textbook right,
(22:34):
she knows what to do right, and so she did that,
and god, I would have been checked into the nearest
mental institution if it wasn't for that, and I wouldn't
have been able to thrive. Right. But every time that
we talk about this and have these uncomfortable I sound
like a broken record, but it's true. It's like people,
I wish I had a Filipina woman to look up to,
(22:56):
like you, you know, like honestly like your experience there.
It was not there really hardly is still to this
day unfortunately as far as the Filipinos go, but starting
to you know, Joe Koy is going out there and
we're like trying. You know, there's a there's there's not
a lot of us, but honestly, people just want someone
to relate to. And my I am. I feel like
(23:18):
I always say, I'm a cat that has lived seven
lives because there's so many layers underneath the mirrorball trophy
like that people have no idea about, and that is
not necessarily what defines me, nor is the mirrorball trophy. Right,
So I'm just learning right now, I'm a sponge and
(23:38):
I'm curious because there is light at the end of
the tunnel, and it starts with just having these conversations. Yes,
I think it is people being able to understand that
there's sort of peaks and valleys in the drawn right. So,
just like you talked about, you know you have the
(23:58):
Mirrorball trophy, there also been some challenges that you had
to overcome, and those are trophies for your for YouTube
because you overcome some of those personal challenges that people
struggle with and you're still here and you keep going right.
And so for me it is, yes, I talk about
all this stuff, but I would never want anybody to
walk away from anything that I saved him and Mike,
(24:20):
I have it all figured out, or feeling like you
know what strong was like, right, I would never want
because it dehumanizes you. And so to be in a
place where there was one time in my life where
I really struggled, and to be in another place where
I have an incredible spouse, I have incredible children, you
know what I mean, Like to know that you can
get to that like that's my mirror of Ball trophies.
(24:41):
That's and so it's it's being able to show people
that whole arc And so I just have to appreciate
you so much and congratulate you, like I said, because
everybody doesn't share those challenges, right, And the more we
can share those challenges, I feel like the other thing
that it is it takes some of the power out
(25:02):
of them when we don't talk about away. It really does.
And let me tell you after, you know, we did
this amazing interview over there that was really four hours long.
I love how they condensed that to thirty minutes. I
was like, you work editor, because they still got it
all in. They got it all in somehow. Wow, that
was a lot of content. That was enough content for
(25:23):
a whole season. Just say, give me the rest of
the content that was powerful. I mean, my point is
is that you know, it really is. What I'm trying
to do is not judge myself. And I've been judged
my whole life as a competitor. Right, Um, there has
(25:43):
been so much I always say to my students as well,
that I teach on like I've I've always said, you know,
celebrities hanging on me the past ways seasons of Dancing
with the Stars that I've done, Right, I've done this
show for seventeen years of my life and it has
been an amazing journey and it also again ups and downs.
(26:04):
But if I didn't risk the unknown or the uncertainty
of what this show is going to provide, because I
did have to risk my professional career. I thought I
was going to come here and do one season. Cut
to twenty six seasons later, UM, and you know, there
is no I've always said this, and it's because I'm
also going through this transition because likely this will be
(26:25):
my last season UM as a as a professional dancer. UM,
but there is so much fear, and I don't I
guess for me, it's fear just in general. Think about
my UM. This year and alone has been a year
full of changes and challenges and UM overwhelming feelings of
(26:46):
just trying to be on the path to healing. And
I know in my heart that I can close this
chapter as a dancer on Dancing with the Stars because
I want to give more. I want to give more
to and and just by using my voice, you know,
I am and I haven't. I have been so grateful
for this opportunity on the show, but I'm helping one celebrity,
(27:08):
you know. I I just know that through this amazing
platform that I've been given and blessed with it is
important for me to help more than one person. I
keep thinking about we kept talking about how when you
(27:32):
were younger, when I was younger, we didn't have a
lot of those people too. But guess what you what
you're doing, Cheryl is I think about all the little
Filipinas who'll get to see this and who get to
hear themselves reference who get to hear people say you
know they or uncle right, people will say right, yes,
(27:54):
that that that's what you are doing for them, And like,
I just don't think we can underestimate the power of
what it means for you to be on the platform
that you have, on the global stage that you're on,
and have all these little girls who can look up
to you and who can go to their mom's right
and dad's and say, look, you know thea Cheryl, she
(28:17):
went to therapy. Y'all need to take me to therapy,
Like I want to talk to somebody and I'm struggling
with this same stuff, and so you get to be
that model for other people. So I just I guess
I'm just reflective and grateful that us, as two women
of color, get to have this kind of conversation and
sort of normalize it because it is normal, Like it's
(28:40):
as scary as it is. This last episode that is
UM that has aired already, it talks about more in
detail everything I talked about over there at the Red
Table talk, and it was I it was painful. It's painful,
it was it was UM. I guess it was really
Also it just took a lot of weight off my
(29:01):
shoulders because I went into detail, like to the point
where there was some you know, conversations I had with
myself because I was my own guest that I was
shocked that came, even the sounds that came out of
my mouth because I, you know, with trauma, maybe you
can dive deeper into this. There is a my timeline,
it's just non existence sometimes and then there is this
(29:24):
whole like I may look like a thirty eight year
old woman, but I have sometimes that my maturity when
it comes to certain things is of a sixteen year old.
And I'm not putting myself down by any means. I'm
I'm saying this just with certain you know, mental health
UM related topics that I may not know about as
much or be familiar with, which is why I have
to change the pattern in my brain to be able
(29:47):
to know about self respect, self love, trusting myself. How
am I going to trust anyone if I don't trust myself? Right?
So this was what was crazy for me was a
little bit was just that feeling of like I started,
I caught myself, especially when I'm in meditation, like questioning
if that really happened. And just like when I got
molested from that retired mailman, you know, it was the
(30:11):
same thing. It was like where I'll never forget I
was testifying. I was looking at him and I was like, dude,
this really happened. Like am I making this ship up?
I mean, I didn't say ship at nine, but like
you know what I mean. The same thing when I
got beat up by my ex boyfriend. Same thing, even
if I saw bruises. It was like I was questioning myself, Yes,
(30:32):
what is that? Remember that. I feel like there are
two things happening, and probably many more, but the two
to stand out to me are one is that your
brain is working on survival. Brain on survival. Your brain
cannot Also the brain is amazing, right, but all that
energy you think about you you've been taught about many
(30:55):
people have been taught about fight or flight. When you're
in fight or flight mode, all those resources of galvanized
for one thing, either fight or flight. They're not yeah
or survival mode. I mean constantly my whole life. So
if you're surviving, you can't be processing and you know,
(31:15):
growing developmentally at the same time. It's not that it
doesn't happen, it's just not happening at the same time. Right,
So that's one piece. The second piece is it is
natural to question yourself. It is natural to lose the
timeline when you're in a relationship, any kind of relationship
in this case, we're talking about it like a loving
(31:37):
was supposed to be a like intimate relationship or the
closest person to you is causing you to question yourself.
Think about the whole purpose is to isolate you and
throw you off, right, we talked about gaslighting. The whole
point is to make you dependent emotionally, physically, psychically, psychologically,
(31:57):
all of it on that person conscious, it's conscious on
their on their parts. Sorry, yes, I think there's a
part of it. It's conscious, and there's a part of
it this sort of natural, it's sort of ingrained. Because
I would always say, when you think about somebody who
comes from an abusive relationship or who perpetuates abusive relationship.
That behavior doesn't come out of thin air, is learned
(32:20):
that the parents. That's it, And so you just do.
It's a natural way of organizing your world. And so
I do think some of it is conscious, but remember
it's conscious in the in the sense that it feeds
that subconscious need to control. I don't always know that
that need to control is at the forefront of that
person's brain. I think it sort of feels it feels better,
(32:44):
it feels like like like I gotta say, it feels
like home. So I think there's it's that. So I
hope that what anyone in your situation me to anybody
out there listening or watching, what do is forgive them
I'm talking about I always talk about grace and forgives.
It's for give yourself for the time when you can't recall,
when the timelines out of order, when you're not sure
(33:06):
whether it happened or not, and be patient with yourself
because as you work through the trauma, you will start
to understand better, did that really happen? Did that now?
And I think that's why people like journaling too, because
it's journal that gives you like a record, and yes
that and right, check yourself against the record. So yeah,
you you're not supposed to be like fully aligned and
(33:27):
fully and have grass with the timeline and that's not
the purpose of gas like in order order abuse. Right.
And also I like how you said to forgive yourself
before you're like just trust yourself, Like there is that
that is? That is You're like, okay, Like I don't know.
I I am very um, matter of fact, that's just
who I am. And I analyze everything and I'm O
C D and all of it, and I welcome it
(33:49):
and I love every single second of it. But I
think that's why I'm a great ballroom dancer because of
my crazy detailed you know, my brain goes. That's why
I used to drink a lot, because it would just
at it up or I thought it did. Um. So
moving forward, you know, I this podcast originally it was
about me going back into the dating game. Clearly that
(34:11):
hasn't happened, um, And I'm just not so sure if
it's going to happen tomorrow either. So I guess for me,
I keep saying, and I don't know if this is
an excuse or if this is part of my social phobia. Um,
but I feel like I want to be alone right now,
not lonely, but alone, and I don't necessarily and I
(34:34):
also know that I will fall back into that habit
of dating a narcissist, trying to change the narcissist, hoping
he changes cut to the same situation. And I'm just
ten years older, so I'm trying to do this now.
How long I'm not? I mean, obviously this is not
a question that you need to answer, really, but it's
(34:56):
like the length of time I guess people are like
there's a lot of people in the said world saying,
when are you dating? How come you even started dating?
And it hasn't even been a year that yes, yes,
I say, let me say this is my rule. I
said this all the time and I used it, and
it's from personal experience. Think about those negative patterns and relationships.
(35:17):
For taking those negative relationships as digging yourself into a hole,
right and and thank you just imagining your mind the
depth how deep you dug climbing into that relationship. I
say to myself, don't you think it might take you
at least as long to dig yourself out. Is it
(35:37):
to dig yourself in? Yes? Right? No, wait, ship that
was since I was thirteen, girl, I would be rolling
in my grave by the time I go on my
next day, right, But if that's so funny, But I
think it's for me. It was that one relationship. So
for that, for me, that one relationship was like three years. Okay,
So I said, okay, it took me a while to
(36:00):
get that. I said, let me give myself at least
three years from that last real, real bad thing. Let
me give myself at least three years to dig myself
out of it. And I needed that time because I
just needed the fog to clear. I just need all
out of my brain. Right. Maybe it wasn't trying to
heal all the stuff from when I was a kid
and I felt like people I was made to feel unattractive.
(36:21):
It wasn't all the way back there, but that really negative, powerful,
awful relationship. So let me climb out of that, and
that I feel like that has worked well for me
and for the patience I've worked with in the past,
because at least it gives you a marker like that.
That's that's like it's like your mile marker. Right, So
give yourself back at least that kind of space. And
(36:42):
it doesn't mean completely cut yourself off from the world
like I'm not dating at all. I'm not gonna go do.
But it does mean I'm gonna give myself the space
and time the heal that that's right, and love. I'm
gonna love me for this period of time, so a
year after maybe not so much. You know, that's kind
of fast. And also you practice trance and dental meditation.
(37:05):
I think there's something in there where we have to
speak the life. I got this from a Yama and
aunt too. Speak the life into yourself, speak what you
want into the world, and try it really hard to
not speak things into your life that you don't want.
So not saying to yourself, I'm gonna kind of right
back into one of those narcissistic right right, staying to
(37:29):
yourself my vocabulary. That's it is to make sure that
I don't and I'm gonna always work to make sure
that I am walking towards both healed or you know,
heat walking in the healing, working to the light, girl,
walking towards the light. That's it. I just got chills.
(37:49):
I mean, I am proud and I don't want to
say this in a way where I'm not dissing my
ex husband by any means. I'm just proud of me
for for basically, you know, going through this divorce, because
if it were the old me, I would have still
been in it. That's it. That's the power. You found,
the strength, you found the stamina, you found something in yourself,
(38:12):
you found the light within share to say I don't
have to do this. I don't have to live girl.
I got chills because I remember to cry, so I
don't have to do this. My life is my life
so much more than yes difficulty. Then I'm I don't
have to live like this, and that's what you and
so like I said, I got chilled. It just chokes
me up because you did that for you and that's
(38:35):
your cue. That is your cue, that's the marker that
says I can live better going forward because I took
the step I needed to take at the time I
needed to take it to walk towards the light. And
that's what you're doing when you're walking in the light. Amen,
Dr Alphy, thank you so much. I am I could
talk to you for weeks and months and years. I
(38:58):
gave you myself. Let's even touch thank you for your time,
and thank you for your words of wisdom and just
for being so human and relatable. And I where can
people find you? What's coming up next? Please? Um? Please
let my listeners know. Yes, so we have a lot
of stuff coming up next. Yes, yes, they just if
they stay attuned to my socials they'll see it because
(39:20):
I put it all okay, so so I'm at it's
really easy. So I'm want to shout out my son's
friends Max and taking them My son is Myles. They
call me Drawfie, oh because I like Dr Alfie. So
I'm gonna shout them out because they call me droppy.
That's the easy way for people to remember. D R
A l f is in Frank I E. It's literally
(39:41):
Dr Alfie on all my socials. So if they go
there and I also have a website, everything is there,
including our red Table talk. Yes, um, and they can
find me there and we absolutely are gonna stay in touch.
Go back and d M this phone number. Women can
make sure you stay in touch with me because I
want to continue to follow and just sharing your journey
(40:01):
and I'm so grateful. Honestly, this is like I'm just
so honestly, I'm so grateful that our paths cost I'm
so grateful that Too invited me to be on here,
and I'm just so grateful to have my Filipinas sister.
I have another Filipinos sister now, and I just appreciate
you so much. Oh, I love you. Thank you so much. Really,
(40:23):
keep up the great work and I will talk to
you soon. Dr ALPHI thank you so much. At the
end of every episode, we need to ask the listeners,
as always, the question of the week, which is how
do you learn to forgive yourself? Let me try and
answer this. How do I learn to forgive myself? Well,
I think to learn how to forgive myself, I guess
it would be to talk to professionals like Dr Alphie,
(40:46):
to talk to my therapist UM, who we had on
here for the first episode of Burke in the game,
Dr Wexler, to continue to sit in silence during my meditation.
I think that really does. UM. You'd be shocked for
people who have never sat in silence, or who gets
intimidated by just me saying that, believe me, so was I.
But when you can, it's a practice. So if it's
(41:07):
not for fifteen minutes, then try one minute, you know,
and I think when you do this a lot of
answers actually surprisingly come to you when you are actually
trying to quiet um you know, the mind a little bit.
But anyway, I would love to hear from you guys again.
The question of the week is how do you learn
to forgive yourself? And so we want to hear from
you as always, so email us at Burke in the
(41:28):
Game at i Heeart radio dot com or d m
u s on Instagram at Burke in the Game. Thank
you guys, till next time. Bye. Thanks for listening and
coming along this journey with me. If you like what
you hear, then feel free to give this podcast five stars.
You can also follow along with my journey on Instagram
at burke in the Game and if you have any
advice or want to write in then email me at
(41:49):
Burke in the Game at i Heeart Radio dot com
This is Burke in the Game and I heard radio podcast.
Hey guys, welcome to Burke in the Game. I want
to just let you guys know again, thank you so
much for all of your love and support through this
vulnerable and UM, I guess really, I just feel stripped
down from everything that has been revealed that I've obviously
(00:27):
shared and have wanted to share with all of you
my listeners and and the world. Really, um, while still
dancing live on television, UM, on Dancing with the Stars.
It's interesting, you know, when I when I perform, even
though I'm still not in the competition yet, I'm still
doing pro numbers, I guess I feel more and more myself. UM.
(00:48):
Like when I performed the other night with I did
two numbers, two pro routines, and I was able to
really feel grounded, not in a physical sense, but also
I mean, I guess both physically and mentally. I always
thought of myself as living like two separate lives, like
me the one behind the mic that you hear now
and then the one behind the glitter. Really and now
(01:11):
I felt I felt different. I felt different that last
performance because there was like there was nothing to hide right,
Like there I have revealed all of me and um
to anybody that wanted to hear it or it wants
to hear it. And it was I think it really
helped me in my professional life in a weird way
and just helped me feel like I just am no
(01:33):
longer me against the world. It's more me and the
world and all of us just trying to be better,
I guess, And with that came a lot of comfort.
But let's talk about this last episode. This one was
really tough for me to hear back um. You know
(01:54):
there right away, I'm not gonna lie. There was moments
of feeling like, oh my god, what am I going
to hurt? So and so, Oh my gosh, am I
gonna get sued? Oh my gosh, did this happen? And
again I started questioning myself like did this happen? Or
is this my own my own story that I make
up in my head. And you know, as hard as
it was then, I also got really nervous about my
(02:17):
family and how they were going to handle it. And
I am still waiting for that reaction if I even
get one. You know, I know it's hard for my
parents sometimes to confront any type of situation um, they
kind of come. I'm sure a lot of you guys
can relate, and I understand, and I say this with
love only that you know, it's a lot easier said
(02:39):
than done, Like honestly, sometimes it's just better left unsaid
sometimes to confront somebody when you don't have the words
to say it, or if you're already feeling uncomfortable. Especially
my parents, you know, like all of this stuff, they
most likely not everything have they've never really heard before.
A lot of my stuff was revealed when I wrote
a book years ago, and even that, you know, it
(03:01):
was like, oh my gosh, you know, I you know,
I didn't have that type of relationship that I would
run home to my mom and tell her all the
details about anything because I was scared, you know, and
I just I don't know. It's interesting to see their
reactions sometimes and all the time it's always a text
message like I love you, we're worrying about you, And
(03:22):
I know that's their way of basically saying, we hear you,
you're scene, we love you, and we support you. Listen,
for all the parents out there, it's never too late
to um have these conversations with your kids or with
loved ones because it is needed, and I think it's
important for them to feel comfortable to open up to
(03:44):
you guys as well without judgment, and I think just
to be heard and there's no need to fix anything.
It is an experience sometimes that as an individual like
that I lived through and I would have been. I
guess it's just it's scary as it is, right, So
just I don't know when I'm a parent one day,
I guess what I'm going to try and do is
(04:05):
just make it comfortable enough for my kids to tell
me anything without judgment. Though easier said than done, I'm sure.
But anyway, I don't know where what what I'm trying
to get at other than this has been a tough
couple of weeks. But again, thank you guys so much
for your love and support and for for hearing me
and making me feel seen. I love you. Dr Alfie
(04:35):
Brilan Noble, known professionally as Dr Alfie, is a pioneering psychologist, scientist, author,
mental health correspondent, and the founder of the million dollar
nonprofit The A A Comma Project. She is an expert
in her field and you may know her as well
as she often joins Red Table talk with Jada Pinkett Smith,
Willow Smith, and Adrian A. K. Gammy Norris discussing suicide
(04:57):
in women's mental health. And you know she is also
a huge advocate for mental health in the black community,
with over twenty five years of experience and widely recognized
for her ability to draw in audiences and inspire. She
embodies her belief that there is enough love and light,
informed by strong, culturally relevant science to help everyone achieve
hashtag optimal mental health. Please welcome Dr Alfie. Hi, how
(05:21):
are you are you? Oh? Thank you? Uh my god.
I have to tell you first before we really get
into it, because I want my listeners to get to
know you and personally and professionally. But I just want
to thank you so much for just being there at
the Red Table, because it was a powerful and very
(05:42):
vulnerable conversation and so I am just so um grateful
for I guess your emotion behind it all. You're not
just a doctor, right, like you're not just a psychologist.
You actually reacted like a human being. And I am
very I guess um in tune with that type of stuff.
And it's uncomfortable to have these conversations, but it's so needed.
(06:05):
So I just want to thank you for doing this podcast. Um,
you know, we don't get listeners like they do over
there at Red Table Talk, right, Um, but I just
I mean, it's still so it's so powerful to this
day for me. So welcome to Burke in the game,
of course. And look when I got your message and
you said let's talk, I said, I'm not telling her no,
(06:29):
How can I tell you? Know? Because like you're just
so sweet and like to be who you are and
to be in this space and to be so vulnerable
and to allow people into your personal like just who
you are like that. People don't do that, and so
the fact that you were willing to do that, it's
just so meaningful for me obviously, And you saw the response.
(06:49):
So when you asked, I said, how can I say no?
Because I love kind people. I was telling my chief
of staff earlier and you are just the sweetest. So
it's my pleasure. Thank you so much. Well, let's get started.
I mean, we talk about everything on this podcast. There
is nothing I got, nothing to hide at all. Um,
I'm pretty sure I've said everything. I don't know if
(07:11):
I've left anything out, but maybe we'll figure this out later. Today.
But how, I guess, how did you get into this
uh whole mental health side of the world, Because it's
a huge pandemic in itself, I believe, and um, it's
I'm grateful for people like you, But how did you
become so knowledgeable? I guess, Um, the knowledgeable I don't
(07:31):
take credit for I just I've always been a good student,
So I'm I'm good about studying. Um. So there's that part.
And then I think beyond that, it has really just
been my passion for it is because there's so many
times in my own life when I think we talked
about this at the Red Table a little bit, when
I felt like people outside of my family weren't trying
(07:55):
very hard to understand me and weren't trying very hard
to connect with me. And so I grew up shared
this story a couple of times. So forgive me. UM.
I grew up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and in Virginia Beach,
that's where I learned a little bit of to Golic
that I knew was talking about that. A little bit
of the Golic is the huge Filipino population, name so
(08:16):
because of the Navy, and and so my childhood was
really trying, like sort of drifting between social circles, like
I never really felt like I had one, so the
black girl, I'm generation x UM, I just always struggled
to kind of find my space. So at home I
always felt safe and loved and comfortable. Outside of home,
I was really always kind of searching, And so I
(08:38):
think where I found my place was I became the
kid that everybody came to because I was nice, just
like you, like, so sweet and so warm and so welcoming.
I was that kid, and I think in some ways
that's how I protected myself. Like if I'm nice, if
I'm kind to everybody, maybe nobody will be mean to me,
you know what I mean. Yeah, it didn't always work
(08:59):
like that, So I think it was for me that's
where my passing four it came from. That was my
way to fit in. Got it, got it? You know,
I totally relate. I mean, actually I was not like
when I was in high school, UM or even middle school.
I was very shy, which came across as bitchy and
stuck up right so beautiful, right, people don't understand because
you're still pretty, like you know what I mean? But
(09:20):
I was Gothic. I was like the rebel. So like
I had like I swear to God, I was Gothic.
I had like I only wore black. I mean I
still love black. I mean, who doesn't look black? But like,
and then I had like the thick eyeliner. I mean
it was insane, um. And I had no friends because
I had I lived two different lives. I had ballroom
as one life, right, competitive and completely different, super glamorous
(09:41):
but not that glamourus at the same time. And then
you got my high school, right, and it's all different
types of ethnicities and every and I'm just like, I'm
just not good at school. First of all, I wasn't
curious back then. Now I am. I'd be a great
student today. But it was I was lonely. And then
it was just me and my my ex, right that
one that was very control alling and all that stuff
(10:01):
happened there, which we'll get into soon. But before we
do this, um, you know, I think, like I said earlier,
it has been such a crazy pandemic in itself mental health,
and I think it's been ashamed um as well, like
people especially from the Filipino culture, you know, like my elders.
(10:21):
They think that therapy means you're crazy, right. They equate
that to like, oh, someone's going crazy, you gotta go
take them to the therapy or a psychiatrist. What I
guess I'm such a huge advocate for therapy because even
my mom, she brought me to therapy right since I
was a little girl, ever since I got sexually abused
when I was four years old. And I guess what
(10:41):
are the other self practices for people who may not
want to go seek therapy or doesn't they don't have
the money too, or they don't know if there's ensure,
if they have their insurance covers it, or if they
just want some other ways of doing this and and
recovering or getting on the path to that. So first
I'm gonna say, IM gonna claim mama is my athe right,
(11:02):
so she's gonna be my because she took that baby.
She took her baby to get care when her baby
needed it. So shouts out to mama for that. I
think that some of the challenges for people are, you know,
they don't like to your point, they don't know where
to look, right, they don't know what they're looking for. Um,
they I don't think anybody's like explained how to go
(11:23):
about looking for a mental health provider to connect you with.
And so there's a lot of talk about everybody should
go therapi is dope, therapies cool, my therapist said, But
I think for so many people, particularly in diverse communities,
communities of color, there's still that heavy stigma. So they
gotta get over that barrier of heavy stigma. They want
to get over that. Okay, I'm gonna go. Then it's like, okay,
(11:43):
where do I look, right? And then they maybe they
find somebody. Then there are these wild weight times, or
the provider doesn't take insurance, or if they do take insurance,
they don't take your insurance right, or you know, so
they are all these barriers and people getting care. And
so what I say to people is until you can
get into that care right, understanding all the barriers and
(12:05):
knowing how important it is for people to have mental
health check up and mental health support, what are the
things that you can do in the interim, Right, It
may take you six weeks to get in with somebody, right,
it may take you three months to find somebody, and
then you're on the wait list. And so I think
it is how do we prioritize our mental health in
day to day? So I see all kinds of things
(12:26):
that talk about you can exercise, right, you have ballroom dancing,
other people have, they like to paint, they like are
they like nature? So finding the thing that you can
do now and meeting yourself to doing a little teeny
bit of that thing each day can be the thing
that helps get you that, you know, create that bridge
(12:48):
for you where you are now too when you're able
to get in with the mental health professional. And let's
be honest share some people are never gonna go to
the mental health professional for various reasons. So I always
people want people to have some tools, something they can
take care of themselves in the interim. So I know
it's not at the great answer to the question, but no, no,
(13:09):
it is absolutely. It's basically what you're trying to get
at as you're giving back to yourself, right, Like I
think that is filling your cup up. As as cliche
as that sounds, it really is. Even if it's fifteen
to twenty minutes, whether that be mindful meditation. You know,
I do transdental meditation twice a day. I try to
get that second just getting my ass in that chair
is really hard, that second one, but I'll try one
(13:33):
step at a type. But like it really there is
so many resources and no judgment um. And also you
don't have to parade around and talk about it like
I've been blessed to be able to write, like you
don't have to. You can tell this is for you
and yourself only. I think people forget that being selfish
isn't necessarily a bad thing. Oh my god. I a
long time ago, when I was much younger and I
(13:55):
was having some struggles in my own life, we talked
about little bit. I was going to ask about that. Yeah, girl,
it wolf, Yeah, yeah, it's it was. It was something
so in that I don't even give it context, but
that negative relationship that I was in, it was like
draining and it was overwhelming, and I was like I
(14:16):
was in my mind really young and just trying to
figure it out. And on the back end of that,
I definitely had my about with depression. Like one, there's
no question about it, Like it was. It was a
pretty severe depression. It wasn't debilitating in the sense that
it kept me from finishing school, but it was a struggle.
You know what I'm saying, like it really was. So
I had to seek out care. And so one of
(14:38):
the things, you know, that I remember from that time
is just how hard it was to kind of accept
that that's what I was dealing with, and at the
same time to also accept that I was worthy of
care because I had been so beaten down and made
to feel I'm not worthy of anything. So when you
(15:00):
were talking about like I get ter, when you were
talking about all those I was like, girl, I can relate. Um.
And I think at the time I was reading these
books and she's still very famous. Everybody still follows her.
Her name is Yama van Zan and she had this
book called Acts of Faith. This is I'm really dating myself.
It was hugely popular. And what I learned from that book,
one of the many things was it's not she would say,
(15:22):
it's not being selfish. She called it being self full,
and that reframe I needed that. I needed somebody to
say it is okay, and it is required if you
show up for yourself first before you can show up
for other people. So that's what it was. And she
was actually a guest here on Berkeley game. But yeah,
(15:44):
she's amazing, uh wow, And every word that comes out
of that woman's mouth is so powerful it gives me chills.
I was just like this and awe. I was like,
oh my gosh, powerful woman. And and that's the thing.
I mean, like, can you as obviously whatever you feel
comfortable with? I would love too, because, like I said,
(16:05):
you're human, right, and I think that you know, I've
had issues with this, not with my current therapists I've
been with for over a decade, but like, sometimes you
don't feel like the professional is human, right, like the
one that is asked telling you or or supporting you,
I guess is the better word through it all, Like
you almost feel like maybe this person's life at least,
(16:25):
this is what has gone through my mind. Are you
perfect or no? But I do believe that great therapists
are the therapists who have actually struggled because they can
relate to the trauma. Do you are you comfortable with
telling me a little bit about yours? Yeah? Of course.
So one of my traumas was rooted in lack of
(16:46):
self esteem growing up right, So, the earliest memories I
ever being a dark skinned black woman in the eighties,
late seventies, early to late eighties, where girls who look
like me were not considered attractive. Right, So Naomi Camel
and I, I think we're like the same age, maybe
a year apart. She didn't pop on the scene until
I was out of high school, so maybe like graduating
(17:06):
high So I didn't have a Naomi Campbell who's chocolate
like me to look and said, oh, everybody like, who
did you think? They only Campbells like drop that gorgeous?
You know what I mean? But I didn't have that,
And so what what I had was I would never
forget this woman. She's by racial she was Swedish and
something I can't remember. I could see her face and
she was the first black girl I ever saw on
(17:28):
the cover of seventeen magazine. She's still around. I just
can't remember her an age. That's what I saw. And
so when people saw black women, that's what they saw, right.
And I think about as I'm thinking about, I think
about my Filipino girlfriend. They had nobody either because you
didn't see you didn't see Filipinos never not a thing.
Still Bury barely still to the state barely now. So um,
(17:51):
I just as a side, you know, I'm just thinking
about reflecting on that. My best girlfriend when I was
a kid is Filipino and so um that was the struggle.
And so when I got went through college, I went
to Howard University for undergrad that i'd like changed my
life because everybody's black, Like, it completely changed my life.
I just felt so seen and efficient water. But there
(18:12):
were still issues around being a dark skinned black girl
and not that's still not being considered attracted. Fast forward,
So by the time I got into like my first
real relationship, it was traumatizing because I picked a person
I looked back now, I picked that person not based
on like the real qualities that I could see behaviors.
(18:35):
I picked that person to validate me, right, So me
with that person, it was, oh, well, if I can
get this person, I must be beautiful, you know. I mean,
that was all the wrong reasons to pick the person, right,
And so the behavior of that person, I'll just be honest,
ended up being very narcissistic. If I had to characterize it,
(18:57):
it was narcissistic personality disorder all over the place. And
anybody who's been in a relationship with anyone, any kind
of relationship with a person who has a narcissistic personality disorder,
you know, they can't see anything but themselves like this
both in life, right, they can't see you. And so
everything that someone might expect, like the belittling, the berating,
(19:22):
the oh you're gonna wear that outside, the isolating you
from your friends, all of that, I went through all
of that. I like all of it. And so you
just drink like you become a shell of a person.
So having had that experience, at the same time, there
were some other challenges. Um, when I was getting my
master's degree, living in New York with other like friends.
(19:44):
But those friends relationships that didn't go well were a
downward negative extension of that primary relationship that wasn't so
I you know what I mean, I was just in
a head stage. I couldn't make healthy friendships, so I
kept picking these people who just were not healthy for me,
even as friends. So those were those were my experiences.
(20:05):
And so when I talk about, you know, feeling depression,
when I talk about anxiety, which one's in my family,
when I talk about, you know, understanding narcissistic personalid this
or and then I had a boss who was a narcissist, right,
so you know what I mean. So so you attracted
I mean there is a void. There's a void that
me and you I can relate big time as you
(20:27):
know are are feeling. But like, do you think it
comes stems from ancestral trauma? Yeah, oh my god, the
inter generational trauma, because I look at my daughter who's
not quite as chocolate as I am and who has
hair like my like hair, and part of her not
having to deal with I think some things is because
(20:47):
I went through it, right, And so it's that if
it's that generational piece where I've worked, I've worked so
hard on healing. I'm not saying I got it all,
but I worked so hard on healing to change the pattern.
That's it, to change the pattern, because I eventually got
to a place where I could see it. But by
the same token, that doesn't mean she didn't go through stuff.
She just did a I'm a brag on it. She
(21:07):
did a Dove commercial where she talked about her hair
and a kid called her hair. He said it looked
like burnt spaghetti. Right, you're not just so the right.
So she went through the same thing, and she what
she didn't tell me talk about the energenerational trauma where
she waited and kind of tried to deal with it
on her own before she came to me, because she's like,
(21:28):
I didn't want you to blow up, and she knew
I would have, right, And so there's still the trauma.
But I think when you do what you've done, you
work on the healing. And when I do what I'm
try and continuing to try to do what's work on
the healing, that we're in a position to be able
to share with other I know, your multi racial, to
share with other multiracial girls or my case black girls,
(21:49):
or case Filipinas, to show them what healing can look
like for people who come from our background, so they
can have a different model and they can also see
the struggles that you're going through. You know, people say
you're not alone. They need to know if they're not alone,
that you can be dancing with the stars and like
(22:12):
global Superstar and still yes, yeah, like like, I mean,
this is the reason for this conversation and why I'm
so passionate about it. First of all, I've been blessed,
honestly to be able to talk about it period. Thank
God for my Really it comes back to my mom.
I mean, I'm so grateful for her just knowing textbook right,
(22:34):
she knows what to do right, and so she did that,
and god, I would have been checked into the nearest
mental institution if it wasn't for that, and I wouldn't
have been able to thrive. Right. But every time that
we talk about this and have these uncomfortable I sound
like a broken record, but it's true. It's like people,
I wish I had a Filipina woman to look up to,
(22:56):
like you, you know, like honestly like your experience there.
It was not there really hardly is still to this
day unfortunately as far as the Filipinos go, but starting
to you know, Joe Koy is going out there and
we're like trying. You know, there's a there's there's not
a lot of us, but honestly, people just want someone
to relate to. And my I am. I feel like
(23:18):
I always say, I'm a cat that has lived seven
lives because there's so many layers underneath the mirrorball trophy
like that people have no idea about, and that is
not necessarily what defines me, nor is the mirrorball trophy. Right,
So I'm just learning right now, I'm a sponge and
(23:38):
I'm curious because there is light at the end of
the tunnel, and it starts with just having these conversations. Yes,
I think it is people being able to understand that
there's sort of peaks and valleys in the drawn right. So,
just like you talked about, you know you have the
(23:58):
Mirrorball trophy, there also been some challenges that you had
to overcome, and those are trophies for your for YouTube
because you overcome some of those personal challenges that people
struggle with and you're still here and you keep going right.
And so for me it is, yes, I talk about
all this stuff, but I would never want anybody to
walk away from anything that I saved him and Mike,
(24:20):
I have it all figured out, or feeling like you
know what strong was like, right, I would never want
because it dehumanizes you. And so to be in a
place where there was one time in my life where
I really struggled, and to be in another place where
I have an incredible spouse, I have incredible children, you
know what I mean, Like to know that you can
get to that like that's my mirror of Ball trophies.
(24:41):
That's and so it's it's being able to show people
that whole arc And so I just have to appreciate
you so much and congratulate you, like I said, because
everybody doesn't share those challenges, right, And the more we
can share those challenges, I feel like the other thing
that it is it takes some of the power out
(25:02):
of them when we don't talk about away. It really does.
And let me tell you after, you know, we did
this amazing interview over there that was really four hours long.
I love how they condensed that to thirty minutes. I
was like, you work editor, because they still got it
all in. They got it all in somehow. Wow, that
was a lot of content. That was enough content for
(25:23):
a whole season. Just say, give me the rest of
the content that was powerful. I mean, my point is
is that you know, it really is. What I'm trying
to do is not judge myself. And I've been judged
my whole life as a competitor. Right, Um, there has
(25:43):
been so much I always say to my students as well,
that I teach on like I've I've always said, you know,
celebrities hanging on me the past ways seasons of Dancing
with the Stars that I've done, Right, I've done this
show for seventeen years of my life and it has
been an amazing journey and it also again ups and downs.
(26:04):
But if I didn't risk the unknown or the uncertainty
of what this show is going to provide, because I
did have to risk my professional career. I thought I
was going to come here and do one season. Cut
to twenty six seasons later, UM, and you know, there
is no I've always said this, and it's because I'm
also going through this transition because likely this will be
(26:25):
my last season UM as a as a professional dancer. UM,
but there is so much fear, and I don't I
guess for me, it's fear just in general. Think about
my UM. This year and alone has been a year
full of changes and challenges and UM overwhelming feelings of
(26:46):
just trying to be on the path to healing. And
I know in my heart that I can close this
chapter as a dancer on Dancing with the Stars because
I want to give more. I want to give more
to and and just by using my voice, you know,
I am and I haven't. I have been so grateful
for this opportunity on the show, but I'm helping one celebrity,
(27:08):
you know. I I just know that through this amazing
platform that I've been given and blessed with it is
important for me to help more than one person. I
keep thinking about we kept talking about how when you
(27:32):
were younger, when I was younger, we didn't have a
lot of those people too. But guess what you what
you're doing, Cheryl is I think about all the little
Filipinas who'll get to see this and who get to
hear themselves reference who get to hear people say you
know they or uncle right, people will say right, yes,
(27:54):
that that that's what you are doing for them, And like,
I just don't think we can underestimate the power of
what it means for you to be on the platform
that you have, on the global stage that you're on,
and have all these little girls who can look up
to you and who can go to their mom's right
and dad's and say, look, you know thea Cheryl, she
(28:17):
went to therapy. Y'all need to take me to therapy,
Like I want to talk to somebody and I'm struggling
with this same stuff, and so you get to be
that model for other people. So I just I guess
I'm just reflective and grateful that us, as two women
of color, get to have this kind of conversation and
sort of normalize it because it is normal, Like it's
(28:40):
as scary as it is. This last episode that is
UM that has aired already, it talks about more in
detail everything I talked about over there at the Red
Table talk, and it was I it was painful. It's painful,
it was it was UM. I guess it was really
Also it just took a lot of weight off my
(29:01):
shoulders because I went into detail, like to the point
where there was some you know, conversations I had with
myself because I was my own guest that I was
shocked that came, even the sounds that came out of
my mouth because I, you know, with trauma, maybe you
can dive deeper into this. There is a my timeline,
it's just non existence sometimes and then there is this
(29:24):
whole like I may look like a thirty eight year
old woman, but I have sometimes that my maturity when
it comes to certain things is of a sixteen year old.
And I'm not putting myself down by any means. I'm
I'm saying this just with certain you know, mental health
UM related topics that I may not know about as
much or be familiar with, which is why I have
to change the pattern in my brain to be able
(29:47):
to know about self respect, self love, trusting myself. How
am I going to trust anyone if I don't trust myself? Right?
So this was what was crazy for me was a
little bit was just that feeling of like I started,
I caught myself, especially when I'm in meditation, like questioning
if that really happened. And just like when I got
molested from that retired mailman, you know, it was the
(30:11):
same thing. It was like where I'll never forget I
was testifying. I was looking at him and I was like, dude,
this really happened. Like am I making this ship up?
I mean, I didn't say ship at nine, but like
you know what I mean. The same thing when I
got beat up by my ex boyfriend. Same thing, even
if I saw bruises. It was like I was questioning myself, Yes,
(30:32):
what is that? Remember that. I feel like there are
two things happening, and probably many more, but the two
to stand out to me are one is that your
brain is working on survival. Brain on survival. Your brain
cannot Also the brain is amazing, right, but all that
energy you think about you you've been taught about many
(30:55):
people have been taught about fight or flight. When you're
in fight or flight mode, all those resources of galvanized
for one thing, either fight or flight. They're not yeah
or survival mode. I mean constantly my whole life. So
if you're surviving, you can't be processing and you know,
(31:15):
growing developmentally at the same time. It's not that it
doesn't happen, it's just not happening at the same time. Right,
So that's one piece. The second piece is it is
natural to question yourself. It is natural to lose the
timeline when you're in a relationship, any kind of relationship
in this case, we're talking about it like a loving
(31:37):
was supposed to be a like intimate relationship or the
closest person to you is causing you to question yourself.
Think about the whole purpose is to isolate you and
throw you off, right, we talked about gaslighting. The whole
point is to make you dependent emotionally, physically, psychically, psychologically,
(31:57):
all of it on that person conscious, it's conscious on
their on their parts. Sorry, yes, I think there's a
part of it. It's conscious, and there's a part of
it this sort of natural, it's sort of ingrained. Because
I would always say, when you think about somebody who
comes from an abusive relationship or who perpetuates abusive relationship.
That behavior doesn't come out of thin air, is learned
(32:20):
that the parents. That's it, And so you just do.
It's a natural way of organizing your world. And so
I do think some of it is conscious, but remember
it's conscious in the in the sense that it feeds
that subconscious need to control. I don't always know that
that need to control is at the forefront of that
person's brain. I think it sort of feels it feels better,
(32:44):
it feels like like like I gotta say, it feels
like home. So I think there's it's that. So I
hope that what anyone in your situation me to anybody
out there listening or watching, what do is forgive them
I'm talking about I always talk about grace and forgives.
It's for give yourself for the time when you can't recall,
when the timelines out of order, when you're not sure
(33:06):
whether it happened or not, and be patient with yourself
because as you work through the trauma, you will start
to understand better, did that really happen? Did that now?
And I think that's why people like journaling too, because
it's journal that gives you like a record, and yes
that and right, check yourself against the record. So yeah,
you you're not supposed to be like fully aligned and
(33:27):
fully and have grass with the timeline and that's not
the purpose of gas like in order order abuse. Right.
And also I like how you said to forgive yourself
before you're like just trust yourself, Like there is that
that is? That is You're like, okay, Like I don't know.
I I am very um, matter of fact, that's just
who I am. And I analyze everything and I'm O
C D and all of it, and I welcome it
(33:49):
and I love every single second of it. But I
think that's why I'm a great ballroom dancer because of
my crazy detailed you know, my brain goes. That's why
I used to drink a lot, because it would just
at it up or I thought it did. Um. So
moving forward, you know, I this podcast originally it was
about me going back into the dating game. Clearly that
(34:11):
hasn't happened, um, And I'm just not so sure if
it's going to happen tomorrow either. So I guess for me,
I keep saying, and I don't know if this is
an excuse or if this is part of my social phobia. Um,
but I feel like I want to be alone right now,
not lonely, but alone, and I don't necessarily and I
(34:34):
also know that I will fall back into that habit
of dating a narcissist, trying to change the narcissist, hoping
he changes cut to the same situation. And I'm just
ten years older, so I'm trying to do this now.
How long I'm not? I mean, obviously this is not
a question that you need to answer, really, but it's
(34:56):
like the length of time I guess people are like
there's a lot of people in the said world saying,
when are you dating? How come you even started dating?
And it hasn't even been a year that yes, yes,
I say, let me say this is my rule. I
said this all the time and I used it, and
it's from personal experience. Think about those negative patterns and relationships.
(35:17):
For taking those negative relationships as digging yourself into a hole,
right and and thank you just imagining your mind the
depth how deep you dug climbing into that relationship. I
say to myself, don't you think it might take you
at least as long to dig yourself out. Is it
(35:37):
to dig yourself in? Yes? Right? No, wait, ship that
was since I was thirteen, girl, I would be rolling
in my grave by the time I go on my
next day, right, But if that's so funny, But I
think it's for me. It was that one relationship. So
for that, for me, that one relationship was like three years. Okay,
So I said, okay, it took me a while to
(36:00):
get that. I said, let me give myself at least
three years from that last real, real bad thing. Let
me give myself at least three years to dig myself
out of it. And I needed that time because I
just needed the fog to clear. I just need all
out of my brain. Right. Maybe it wasn't trying to
heal all the stuff from when I was a kid
and I felt like people I was made to feel unattractive.
(36:21):
It wasn't all the way back there, but that really negative, powerful,
awful relationship. So let me climb out of that, and
that I feel like that has worked well for me
and for the patience I've worked with in the past,
because at least it gives you a marker like that.
That's that's like it's like your mile marker. Right, So
give yourself back at least that kind of space. And
(36:42):
it doesn't mean completely cut yourself off from the world
like I'm not dating at all. I'm not gonna go do.
But it does mean I'm gonna give myself the space
and time the heal that that's right, and love. I'm
gonna love me for this period of time, so a
year after maybe not so much. You know, that's kind
of fast. And also you practice trance and dental meditation.
(37:05):
I think there's something in there where we have to
speak the life. I got this from a Yama and
aunt too. Speak the life into yourself, speak what you
want into the world, and try it really hard to
not speak things into your life that you don't want.
So not saying to yourself, I'm gonna kind of right
back into one of those narcissistic right right, staying to
(37:29):
yourself my vocabulary. That's it is to make sure that
I don't and I'm gonna always work to make sure
that I am walking towards both healed or you know,
heat walking in the healing, working to the light, girl,
walking towards the light. That's it. I just got chills.
(37:49):
I mean, I am proud and I don't want to
say this in a way where I'm not dissing my
ex husband by any means. I'm just proud of me
for for basically, you know, going through this divorce, because
if it were the old me, I would have still
been in it. That's it. That's the power. You found,
the strength, you found the stamina, you found something in yourself,
(38:12):
you found the light within share to say I don't
have to do this. I don't have to live girl.
I got chills because I remember to cry, so I
don't have to do this. My life is my life
so much more than yes difficulty. Then I'm I don't
have to live like this, and that's what you and
so like I said, I got chilled. It just chokes
me up because you did that for you and that's
(38:35):
your cue. That is your cue, that's the marker that
says I can live better going forward because I took
the step I needed to take at the time I
needed to take it to walk towards the light. And
that's what you're doing when you're walking in the light. Amen,
Dr Alphy, thank you so much. I am I could
talk to you for weeks and months and years. I
(38:58):
gave you myself. Let's even touch thank you for your time,
and thank you for your words of wisdom and just
for being so human and relatable. And I where can
people find you? What's coming up next? Please? Um? Please
let my listeners know. Yes, so we have a lot
of stuff coming up next. Yes, yes, they just if
they stay attuned to my socials they'll see it because
(39:20):
I put it all okay, so so I'm at it's
really easy. So I'm want to shout out my son's
friends Max and taking them My son is Myles. They
call me Drawfie, oh because I like Dr Alfie. So
I'm gonna shout them out because they call me droppy.
That's the easy way for people to remember. D R
A l f is in Frank I E. It's literally
(39:41):
Dr Alfie on all my socials. So if they go
there and I also have a website, everything is there,
including our red Table talk. Yes, um, and they can
find me there and we absolutely are gonna stay in touch.
Go back and d M this phone number. Women can
make sure you stay in touch with me because I
want to continue to follow and just sharing your journey
(40:01):
and I'm so grateful. Honestly, this is like I'm just
so honestly, I'm so grateful that our paths cost I'm
so grateful that Too invited me to be on here,
and I'm just so grateful to have my Filipinas sister.
I have another Filipinos sister now, and I just appreciate
you so much. Oh, I love you. Thank you so much. Really,
(40:23):
keep up the great work and I will talk to
you soon. Dr ALPHI thank you so much. At the
end of every episode, we need to ask the listeners,
as always, the question of the week, which is how
do you learn to forgive yourself? Let me try and
answer this. How do I learn to forgive myself? Well,
I think to learn how to forgive myself, I guess
it would be to talk to professionals like Dr Alphie,
(40:46):
to talk to my therapist UM, who we had on
here for the first episode of Burke in the game,
Dr Wexler, to continue to sit in silence during my meditation.
I think that really does. UM. You'd be shocked for
people who have never sat in silence, or who gets
intimidated by just me saying that, believe me, so was I.
But when you can, it's a practice. So if it's
(41:07):
not for fifteen minutes, then try one minute, you know,
and I think when you do this a lot of
answers actually surprisingly come to you when you are actually
trying to quiet um you know, the mind a little bit.
But anyway, I would love to hear from you guys again.
The question of the week is how do you learn
to forgive yourself? And so we want to hear from
you as always, so email us at Burke in the
(41:28):
Game at i Heeart radio dot com or d m
u s on Instagram at Burke in the Game. Thank
you guys, till next time. Bye. Thanks for listening and
coming along this journey with me. If you like what
you hear, then feel free to give this podcast five stars.
You can also follow along with my journey on Instagram
at burke in the Game and if you have any
advice or want to write in then email me at
(41:49):
Burke in the Game at i Heeart Radio dot com
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