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November 24, 2022 55 mins

Ellen Scanlon started a weekly podcast, “How to do the Pot,” in 2019 for women interested in cannabis. She’s used it to give advice about how best to incorporate cannabis into one’s life, whether to relive stress or pain, enhance sex, help with sleep, or just generally lead a healthier, happier and more productive life. We talked about pregnancy, nursing, parenting, menstruation and menopause, as well as autoimmune diseases, migraines and ways in which marijuana can enhance performance. I was curious about differences between men and women, and why she recommends particular strains for women.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Ethan Edelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production
of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the
show where we talk about all things drugs. But any
views expressed here do not represent those of I Heart Media,
Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees. Indeed, as an

inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may not even
represent my own. And nothing contained in this show should
be used as medical advice or encouragement to use any
type of drugs. Hello, Psychoactive listeners, So we got a

fun one today. My guest is Ellen Scanlon, and about
three years ago she started a podcast called how to
Do the Pot, specifically for and directed at women, all
about cannabis. So, Ellen, thank you so much for joining
me on Psychoactive. Thank you for having me. It's great

to be here. Well, I'll tell you I've been listening
to your podcast and I'm really enjoying the kind of
very sensible advice that you've been given to people, and
and and the thinking about it. So, I mean, I
guess let me just ask you right now. I mean,
I mean, firstly, just a bit about yourself, you know,
when did you first start using cannabis? You know, my

first memory of it is in high school. I moved
when I was in high school from Connecticut to Maryland,
and my parents were pretty strict and uh, they needed
to know where I was going to be at all times.
But there was this moment in time when I had
moved and I was a sophomore in high school and
they wanted me to make friends, and so things got

a little bit looser with my social life and I
got to go out with some new friends and I
remember being at a party, uh and toten d C
and someone handed me a joint. And I've been around
it before, but it had kind of felt scary to me,
I think. And I remember trying it and nothing much happened,

to be honest, Um, but it was a very pleasant
experience and kind of got me more curious, not terribly curious. Really,
College was when I think, um, it was more accessible
and more available, and so that's when I really started
to have more of a relationship with it. So would
you say that, I mean, you've basically had a positive

and friendly relationship with marijuana since your teens, I have,
you know, I've always liked weed. Um. I like how
it makes me feel. I like, um that it it
sort of enhances creativity. And that's the type of weed
that I like. Was started to happen after college. I
moved to New York City and access got harder for me.

You know, I think most women that I talked to,
and and this is true for me as well, kind
of got weed through a g I and if there
was a guy in my life that had it, then
I had access, and if not, then I didn't. And
so that was sort of my story in New York.
I also I was working on Wall Street. I was
like a very sort of high pressure environment, and I

think that, um it just it just changed, um my,
my relationship. It wasn't around and I wasn't seeking it out.
But that is to say that when it was around,
usually I wanted to be a part of it. Um
But I don't like to get super high. And I
think that as I've gotten more confident with the plant,

you know, I'm happy to say that, and I love
cannabis so much, but I also just really like to
use it in ways that match the environment that I'm in,
and I think that that wasn't really as available when
cannabis was illegal and I didn't know what I was
putting into my body. M hmm, yeah, you know. It's funny.
So I think about my own I want to use
going back to when I was eighteen, and I know

that that for me sometimes that it was a way
of kind of turning off my brain, like Okay, you
think you're high. Now you can't think about work anymore. Um.
In addition to that, of course, is all about the
pleasures associated with it, in the enhancement of you know,
positive things, whether it's sensory stuff for emotional stuff, but
for you. So this kind of turning off of the

brain element, like when you're working on Wall Street wasn't
really a part of it. You were sort of in
net work mode or maybe alcohol played that role. I
think alcohol played that role. And um, I I love
cannabis for its creativity and like being in nature and
taking a walk, and I think New York City was
a little stressful for me. I went to college and

in Charlettsville, Virginia, and I grew up in the suburbs
of Maryland and in Connecticut. And so I think in
retrospect that maybe just being really high in the middle
of New York City was just overwhelming. I screw the
movies a lot, and those movie theaters with like twenty
front movies and tons of people, and it was very
hectic and it just, um, it wasn't as relaxing as

it had been for me in different environments. But so
you decided to start this podcast three years ago. So
what prompted that? Really it was health challenges, um, that
brought me to the plant and I, um, gosh, probably
about ten years ago now, I had a really bad accident.
I was in New Orleans for jazz Fest and with

my boyfriend that and my now husband and a bunch
of friends who had grown up there. We were having
a wonderful time and we were riding bikes and I
fell off of a bike and I broke sixteen of
my teeth and I tore up my shoulder, I broke
three ribs my wrist, and um, it was it was
a very scary accident that didn't have sort of a

violent start to it, but it was. It was a
slow roll from there because I had to go to
the emergency room and um, they gave me some very
very strong pain killers. I came home to my friend's
house and was sitting talking with our friends and and
trying to sort of salvage the day. And suddenly I

woke up and I was on the floor. I had
passed out and hit my head. And it was sort
of the start of just an incredible number of side effects,
um from different medications that I was given. If you've
ever had any dental issues, uh, each tooth, imagine about
three appointments and thousands of dollars and so I UM.

I think very luckily, I don't handle opioid and narcotic
kinds of pain killers very well, so I wasn't able
to take those. But what I took instead was advil
about every three hours for ten months. And I had
been a person who prior to that, you know, I
did what the doctor said I did, you know, I

followed the rules. And this was really a moment, and
I was not getting better. I had to learn to
advocate for myself, and I had to advocate for myself
in a way that felt like I was going against
what I had been taught. And I think that that
was the start of of of thinking about cannabis in

a new way. I had moved to California just before
my accident, and so also living in San Francisco and
just having a very different environment around cannabis. UM it
was legal for medical use. I had a medical card.
UM that was I think the real kernel of of
how I got into cannabis. I then, UM was trying
to have a baby. And the reason I'm mid forties

mom is because I didn't have my son until I
was forty, because it took me about four years. I
learned at the very end of this road UM, on
this fertility journey, that I have endometriosis. And endometriosis affects
one in ten women. It is the cause of fifty
to sixty percent of unexplained infertility, and cannabis is an

incredible treatment for it and endometriosis. Endometriosis is when the
endometrial tissue that should be in your uterus is in
other areas and other organs. People have described it. It
can be like a spider web on your other organs
and it is incredibly, incredibly painful, and it affects different

women differently. It can have g I issues. UM cramps
are sort of the most classic symptom that is related
to endometriosis. But I try and talk about it when
wherever I can, because cannabis is truly magic and it
has completely changed my life. UM. Not that other pain
killers don't work. They do, but they have side effects,
and the side effects, as we know, can be addiction

and other very very challenging UM issues as well as
just physical issues for the people that are trying to
solve their problems with pain. So long, long way of
getting to cannabis, I think as a professor, but it
comes from from a real place of passion for me
because I talked to so many people whose lives have

been improved by consuming cannabis and bringing it into their
life for stress, for sleep, for pain and uh, and
I really don't want anyone to feel bad about that,
which I think has you know, a long storied history
of stigma. Now. I mean, obviously, when you started this podcast,
you could have done a podcast that was because you know,

you're offering very thoughtful comments and feedback about you know,
how to use marijuana with types and strains and the
benefits in CBD versus THHC, but you focus specifically on women.
I mean, obviously some of the advice is generic, UM,
but it's clear that that's the niche you've decided to
focus on, and how and why did you decide to
make that the niche. Well, prior to starting the podcast,

I had been working for a women's healthcare company startup
based in San Francisco, and I think for the first
time I started to realize that women's health was really
different than men's. It sounds so obvious, but you know,
I spent my early part of my career working on
Wall Street. I got my m b A. I had
been in very heavily male environments, which UM just didn't

have a lot of space for conversations about things that
were specific to women. And so between having this accident,
which UM, you know, there are really frustrating statistics that
came out. I think in UM the University of Chicago
and Berkeley came out with a study that said something
like of women have been overdosed in taking prescription medicine

because the dosage is just too big, too strong for
their body type. For women, it wasn't until you know,
the nineties that drugs were even being tested on women
because the hormone cycle quote unquote messes up the data. UM.
And so I think that women are underserved in cannabis.

I think historically there has been more stigma around women,
and I really believe that cannabis is an incredible tool
for women. You know, the endocannabinoid system, which I'm sure
you're familiar with, but for your listeners who may not be.
It's a system that's been in humans since there were humans,
but it was discovered in the nineties UM by Dr

Machell lamb Chel, leading Israeli researcher, an incredible researcher who
has really just helped all of us understand the cannabis
plants so much, UM, and the carnabinoid receptors that live
in our body are you know, we have the system
that is similar to the nervous system, to the cardiovascular system,

but the entire purpose of the endocannabinoid system is to
create homeostasis and balance and so really balancing your body.
And men feel that as well. But the receptors for
cannabis are you know, the the top, the main receptors,
the largest number of receptors are in the brain, but

after that they're in women's pelvic regions. And so this
is why cannabis can help with cramps. It's why it's
so effective for endometriosis, and so I think we're just
at the beginning of understanding ways that women can just
based on their hormones, UM, really benefit from cannabis. And
then you know, women disproportionately suffer from autoimmune diseases. Eight

out of ten people that have them are women. UM,
women disproportionately stuffer from stress and sleep issues, and so
there were just a lot of health issues that UM,
I felt were important to specifically talk to about women.
I've been so thrilled that we we have, you know,
a pretty large male audience. It kind of veers from

depending on when we're looking at it, because I do
really feel like so much of the content that we
put out is practical, it's fun, it's meant to just
help you in your day. UM, but there are some
really specific things that cannabis can help women with, and
I wanted to get the word out about that. We'll
be talking more after we hear this add So just

going more in on the issue about because you spend
a fair bit of time talking about women in hormones
and so in terms of like dealing with menstrual cramps
or I mean, do you like, do you give advice
for example, where you are in your cycle and how
certain types of marijuana or combinations might be better at
different times in the cycle. Definitely, And I learned that
depending on where you are in in your cycle, cannabis

can be stronger. So as you are kind of in
the last phase right before you get your period, that
is when your tolerance to cannabis is the lowest, and
so you're gonna be getting the most high. So that
also is something that I think is in credibly important
for women to know. You know, I love CBD, I
love ratios like twenty to one, where I'm just feeling

that the benefits of sort of the balancing effects and
the calming and stress relieving, and so for me, as
I'm getting closer to my period, I lower my dose
so that I can maintain the same effects throughout the month. Um.
So that is just one example of something that is
just really only affecting women because of their hormones. Is

anything knowing about the pill in marijuana and an interaction
or if any between them. Interestingly, so this is totally anecdotal,
and I'm not a doctor, but I talked to women
who are on the pill and they don't have that
tolerance change. It's women who are not on the pill
who really notice the difference in how the weed affects
them at different times of the month. Well, how about menopause. So,

menopause is a really really interesting area. I think for
a lot of companies that are starting to pay attention
to this huge block of women who are not feeling
well and have money to spend on it. And so
I do think that there's more interest in cannabis in
older generations as well, baby boomers. Um. The companies that

I know that are focused on women and menopause are
putting out products like suppositories. Um So suppositories are um
you know, it's sort of like an applicator less tampon
that you insert uh into your body. And I think
for menopausal women who are dealing with things like a
lack of moisture, they can really just create those balancing

effects because of the endocannabinoid receptors that are in the
pelvic region. Sleep is another thing that really can be
a challenge for women facing menopause and cannabis, and its
depending on how your sleep issues affect you. There are
different types of cannabis. So we did four part series
on this because I was answering the same questions so

frequently that I just thought I have to put out
a very comprehensive series on this. And you know, if
you have trouble falling asleep, to each c can be
very helpful. If you have trouble staying asleep, CBD can
be very helpful. So there's some questions that you have
to ask around cannabis for sleep. But I think that
that along with stress are are are very um interesting

and I hope that more women who are facing amout
of pause are open to considering cannabis. Are you hearing
from many women who do not use cannabis either ever
and then start in their forties or fifties, or maybe
did use it when they were younger, stopped for twenty
years and or back to using it now. I hear
from women like that all the time, um, and I

think that you know, that's really who I hope to
serve with this show, because I think that legal cannabis,
you know, in a huge part thanks to you and
two advocates like you, is just completely different, and people
who have been consuming cannabis for a very long time
entering the legal market are entering a new environment. UM,

and so I am really trying to help people understand
this new landscape UM and what it means to have
legal cannabis and help to teach people how to do it.
I talked to a lot of women who love weed,
and I'll ask them what to me are pretty simple
questions like you know, what's your favorite strain or you
know what ratio do you like of CBD to th HC,

And they really don't know what I'm talking about because
they've been getting weed in a baggy. No, It's true
for long time users the often times don't keep up
on what's the latest. You know, it's probably I'm probably
guilty of that to some extent, makes myself except for
doing this podcast, we're now being obliged to learn, you know,
more and more about this and I was learning stuff
from what listening to your episodes about the th hccb

D combination stuff. You know, I mean, I'm wondering only
it sounds in terms of the medical stuff and in
terms of a lot of what you talked about, a
lot of it is about the emphasis on cb D.
You know. I had Martin Lee from Project cb D
on the Psychoactive recently and we're talking about what's the
latest research in this area, But it sounds like, I mean,

for many people it's either the THI CBD low THHC,
which works better for a range of conditions, thinking about
things like stress and anxiety and such like that. So
you know, why, why is that, and what's your experience
what have you learned about that. CBD is a cannabinoid
that really works well for me, and I am so

grateful for it every day. I think that there are
a couple of things about CBD that have been just
sort of hard for people to to take in. And
the first is that you really need to take it
for at least two weeks consistently before you're going to
feel any effects, sometimes a month, sometimes longer. And you
probably need more than you think. So having a little

CBD and some you know, beverage that you have something
like that, it's just not bringing that much into your system.
And the goal of of bringing CBD into your system,
bringing cannabis in general, is to create that balance in
the endocannabinoid system. And so I love CBD. I'm a
huge believer, but um, you need a little more than

you think, and you need to keep trying it for
longer than you think UM. And the effects can also
be fairly subtle, so if you are not UM paying
very close attention to how you feel. You know, I've
recommended CBD to so many friends and I'll ask them
about it later and say, how's it going, you know,
do you like the product that I recommended, And they'll say, oh,

I'm feeling a lot better. I don't know, maybe I'll stop,
maybe I don't need it, and I'm like, I think
that's what's helping. So it's it's a little tricky, and
it's typically the case that it's not CBD by itself
but with some element of th HC as well. I
take a lot of CBD by itself. I for me personally,
when I am consuming th HC, I really like it

to have CBD in it, especially with edibles which can
just last a long time, and sometimes th HC can
make me anxious. UM. And so I found that this
sort of body effects. UM. They CBD is great for inflammation,
and so I think we all probably have more than
what we should or what we would like, and so

it's sort of lowering that inflammation, which then helps to
also balance the endocannabinoid system and and bring on these
balancing homeostasis type effects. UM, So I I really like
CBD with my THHC. If I I just got a
pre role from delivery service with a mix of A
C d C and Jack Carreer low dos really pleasant.

It was just like a wonderful kind of a little
bit of creativity in your head. But I also felt
like I heard you want to show talking about how
sometimes when you smoke weed, your come up with great
ideas and maybe they're not so good the next morning.
And I feel like CBD sometimes can can UM just
counter that a little bit? You you kind of feel
more like yourself. So what's the ratio that you enjoy

with the T h C CBD in edibles? I like
it from kind of a three to one ratio to
about a twenty to one UM if I have a
little more time, if I, you know, have a little
bit more freedom, a one to one UM, like if
I'm going on a fun hike or something without UM
twenty part cd D to one part th HC. Yeah,

we're newly non intoxicating. Uh huh. And but the CBD
N and you'll say you'll you'll you'll find some benefit
from it, even if there's not the slightest bit of
t HC in there. I get a lot of benefit
from it. I take it in UM a gel cap.
There's a women run company based in Chicago called Equilibria.
I love their gel caps. They own their farm in Colorado,

and I've been using their products for a long time.
And there'll be times when I don't have it with
me or I go away and I you know, I
run out, and I really noticed that my anxiety goes up,
my sort of irritability go is up. UM it has
a very very balancing effect for me. And what dose
level are you talking about? Anywhere from like seventy milligrams

to two hundred milligrams if I'm having a very stressful time,
so it's a lot. And then is it kind of
daily supplement? What do you do for that that is
my daily supplement? I mean, I really think of it
as a supplement. Uh huh. So you might be if
it going through a stressful time, you might kick it
up to two hundred milligrams and otherwise be it around
seventy five or so exactly and taken once a day,

morning or night. Does it make a difference. No, you know,
it's funny. This is sort of another part of the
medical side of cannabis that I think people have to
wrap their heads around a little bit, which is, you know,
doctors and nurses have talked to me about this. They say,
you know, I have a patient who is used to
taking their medicine, you know, every eight hours or every
six hours, and that can be how cannabis works as well.

You know, you're not just going to take it first
thing in the morning and your pain will be gone
all day long. Um. You know, this is one of
the reasons that things like can of butter is really
popular because you can put a little bit of butter
on your toast in the morning, have some at lunch,
have some at dinner. You kind of need to keep
it in your system so that you can keep the effects.
That's really what micro docing is when people talk about
micro doce in cannabis, is taking smaller amounts so that

you can feel the positive effects for longer. And how
about sleep. Sleep is a huge topic, and the first
question to ask is do you have trouble falling asleep
or do you have trouble staying asleep? So I had
never had any sleep issues, and then I had a
small child and I started a business kind of in
the same year, and I still don't have trouble falling asleep,

but I do wake up a lot. I was at
a conference recently talking to some other women entrepreneurs and
we were like, oh, is it three oh four for
you or like three oh seven because it's the same
time most nights. Um. But CBD has really really helped
to solve that for me. So I take another gel
cap before bed. Um. You know, CBN is a cannabinoid

that's showing some promise in sleep. You know, the cannabis
sleep medications that are coming out, more of them have um,
the more minor cannabinoids in them. Um. But I really
just think that it is a wonderful thing to try
if you are not having results from sleep medications that

you're taking, or even if you even if you are.
You know, I've had women on my show who have
been dealing with terrible insomnia and gone into their doctor
and that their doctor has given them a prescription for
ambient and said, you're going to have to start taking
more of this. It's going to stop working. So maybe
what you do is take it for two weeks of
the month and then don't take it for two weeks,

and it's like, is that really a solution, that's really
the advice that you're getting. And the same issue about
people developing tolerance. Does one develop tolerance for the effects
of CBD and that it does need to be increased
over time to achieve the same effects or not, But
I guess there's really no research on that as well.
At this point, I have not found that to be

the case. I don't need more. I need more when
I'm more stressed, but I don't need more just to
kind of keep my balanced level. And one thing I
will say about sleeping cannabis, I talked to a lot
of people who will kind of say, you know, Ellen,
I'm just really not into weed, but I take an
edible every night to sleep, and it's changed my life,

and so um sleep is so important to just human
functioning that it has been I think an entryway for
some people who are willing to try anything to get
a good night's rest and finding great, great relief with cannabis. Now,
everything you're saying right about thertal immune disease and stress

and anxiety and sleep, it all applies really equally to
men and women. I mean, obviously, I think probably women
suffer from many of these issues more than men do. UM.
But in terms of the advice, is there anything significantly different. No.
You know, my husband takes CBD just like I do.

It works for him. When he stops taking it, if he,
you know, starts to feel more stressed, he takes more. UM.
The thing that I do notice, and this is also anecdotal,
but you know, if my husband and I are sharing
a joint on a Saturday night, sometimes all like it
and he won't, or you know, I'll have effects that
feel like I feel very chatty and um, really kind

of excited about things, and he gets super sleepy. So
the effects can really differ a lot between us UM.
Which is one of the challenges about cannabis and why
I've tried to make my show so practical, because I
really want people to feel confident about cannabis for health,
for well being, for fun and knowing more about it.

You know, there are some kind of tools that you
can use. You know, if I find myself too high,
I know that I can take a CBD oil tincture
and put it under my tongue. And it'll balance out
how I'm feeling. Um, A little tricks like that that
can really help with confidence for men and for women,
because there's just not enough. It's interesting point that if

you are feeling too high, that putting a little CBD
thinks you're saying under your tongue can really help bring
you down from that a bit and turn turn it
kind of too much high into a pleasant high. It's
the best advice I try and tell everyone that I can. Yes,
it's amazing. Um, if you're trying a new strain, or
if you're going to be out with people and you're
not sure you know how you want to feel, just
throw a CBD oil tincture um into your bag and

put um a dropper underneath your tongue, hold it there
for probably sixty seconds, and then about fifteen minutes you
will feel less high and more like yourself. Oh, that's
it's it's great advice. Well, let me ask you. I
mean maybe it's just cross the line, let me know.
But so listen to the issue of mari one in sex. Um,
you know, what's your general advice and thoughts about about that.

Every woman should have a weed lube in her bedside table.
Just every woman a weed loube. Finally, so cannabis lube.
It's you know, just a serum. Um. If you live
in a legal state, you can buy uh we lube
that has th HC in it, which um is wonderful.
But if you don't, cannabis lube with just CBD is

also really fantastic and I highly highly recommend it um.
This goes back to the pelvic region and the endocannabinoid
system and having more receptors and cannabis in a lube
it topical. It will not make you feel intoxicated, but
it will bring more blood flow to the area and
that increases sensuality, increases touch. And so the weed lube

just as a as a topical is something that I
give as a gift. UM. I give it as to
friends as a gift a lot and UM and I
highly highly recommend it um. And are there I mean
I said, I don't think either of us is getting
paid anything by any cannabis companies. Are there are there
brands that you'd recommend? Yes? Um, there's a brand called

fouria Um which has a CBD and a th HC
lube t HC is available in California. In Colorado, I
think a company called Quim which you can buy I
think like at Nordstrums and urban outfitters. There's another one
called um Her Highness. Her Highness has a very very
fantastic weedlube that comes with some other um herbs in it,

and so yes, I highly highly recommend weed lube for everyone,
for every woman, and it does not really have an
effect on men, So this is just for women topically,
These weed lubes are are really not going to do
much for men, but you'll have a partner who is
you know, feeling hopefully much better, stronger orgasms, just feeling

more sensation and and stronger positive feelings. So that is
a wonderful thing. Cannabis for sex as sort of consuming
it is definitely a little bit more complicated, and again
it goes back to kind of what you are noticing
the theme of what I'm saying, which is lower th
HC having cb D. I always recommend that if you

are new to cannabis and sex, that you start experimenting
with yourself and understand how you feel with these different strains,
because issues of consent and and comfort really can can
play a role. And so we lube I am on
for for every woman and then experimenting a little bit

more if you want to bring cannabis, whether you're consuming
it with edibles or um or smoking it into the bedroom.
And the loops you're talking about are generally CBD high
and low th HC. So the loops that I'm talking about,
it is sort of a funny experience to walk into
a dispensary and buy a weed lube. UM. So I

do it like periodically just to remind myself that it's
a little bit uncomfortable. But that is the only place
where you'll be able to buy weed lobes with th
HC from a licensed dispensary or delivery service. Um. But
cbdlubes because CBD, because CBD is legal all across the country. Um,
you can order it over the internet. M hmm. I mean, yeah,

this conversation is going through some sensitive directions. But I've
wondered too, when you have a more heavy a loube
that's more heavy on th HC. You know, how shall
I say this? I mean, if oral sex is involved,
this demand getting high. Yeah, and and this is where
again you know, not a lot of data, mostly anecdotal UM.

And I think where it really becomes a question is
around drug testing UM and there is definitely a possibility
of having a positive drug test UM and so I
think that that's another reason why it's really important to
talk to your partner about what is happening about how
you want to handle the loop. Maybe if you have
a partner who's getting drug tested, it's CBD lube, you know,

just considering all of the parts of how cannabis UH
affects your sex life but also your life outside of
the bedroom. Now you have the series of episodes on
your podcast called the twelve Best Cannabis Strains for Women.
So I mean, there's no hard research any of this stuff, right,
It's all anecdotal coming from consumers and from people who

work in stores and such. But well, let me start
off with a very specific question. Have you found in
talking about this that there are certain strains they prefer
with sex? They say this one is great for sex.
I think that the strain that comes up the most
is GSC which used to be known as Girl Scott Cookies. UM.
People really like that one. I like to recommend it

because I think it offers a balance of a body
and a head high. It can be a strong strain,
so one or two hits should should be fine. UM.
We recently put out a series about what is good
weed for women, and our most popular episode of the
series is what is good Balanced Weed? And the two
strains that we recommended in that UM in that series

are bubblegum and Harlequin, and I think those are also
really great strains to consider for sex. And this is
why trying out a strain knowing whether you like it,
knowing how it makes you feel, is a really important
part of introducing it into a sexual relationship with a partner,
because you want to know how it's going to make

you feel. And some people love those strains, but some
people don't. UM, So this is not the time to
try something new. I wouldn't recommend let's take a break
here and go to an ad. Do you find it's

important that that? I mean that many consumers like to
switch between strains, that if you keep using the same
strain over and over and over, you sort of begin
develop more of a tolerance for its psychoactive effects, and
that by mixing them up that can keep, you know,
keep one appreciating the particular psychoactive effects or alternatively, uh

that people uh, you know say that well, I like
this strain, you know, for sex, and this strain is
great for just chilling and going to watch a movie,
and this strain is best for, you know, when I
want to do my yoga. Um. And that people are
tailoring which strain they use for what activity they're going
to be engaging in. I think that is one of
the incredible parts of a legal market that you can

go shopping and decide what you want to buy. And
if you've had a good experience at yoga with a
c d C, you know, you can probably find a
C d C. If you love O G kush Um,
you know, maybe that's the perfect strain for you to
be watching a movie. Um. We have a series on
our show called The First Time I Bought Legal Weed

and women sending their story from all over the country
and talk about their first experience. Because I really believe
that it's a big barrier to a lot of women
that they're just scared to go into a dispensary. There's
a you know, usually a big dude outside, which is
partly because it's a cash business. And so I want

people to understand that this really can be more of
a shopping experience and that you can start to dial
in how you feel. Um, there are some people who
just will always love the classics. But I also always
say cannabis is a plant. So just because you love
this strain from this particular brand, you know, it might

be different in December than it is in June because
the growing conditions were different, and so they're just a
lot of variables to this being a plant. Well, you know,
in terms of those other best cannabis strains, um, what
were other ones that really stood out in terms of
particular activities or preferences. One of the most popular strains

in our series. Uh, we call it the Giggly pot
and that's x J thirteen, which, um, is a really
fun strain that you know. I think that this started
sort of mid pandemic when I would just get texts
or calls from friends like I just need to laugh?
Can you please help me? Like what, it's just gonna
make me smile? Um? So x J thirteen is one

that I love to recommend to people. Um, I tend
to recommend sort of either lower th HC strains, which
would be t HC you know around t or looking
for either flower or pre roles that have CBD in them,
because you know, sometimes not really feeling it can be

the perfect place for you to kind of start again
understanding how cannabis might come into your life. And I
just it's like my mission in life that that no
one gets too high, you know, higher than they want,
because I've just watched so many people say I will
never or I'll never touch that again. I had such
a bad experience. I ate an edible and I you know,

it was high for two days and it was awful.
And it just doesn't have to be that way. And
so I really encourage people, um with all the strains
that I recommend just start slow. Wait, you know, don't
eat another edible and have fun with it. You know,
like you don't have to be like me and keep
notes on your phone and in a journal and all

of that. But it can be really fun to keep
a journal and kind of remember which strains make you
feel a certain way. It's also a really helpful way
to find your next favorite strain because when you go
into a dispensary, one of the questions I always recommend
people to to talk about with the retail salespeople the

bud tenders, is you know, what was the last best
experience you had with cannabis and what did you like
about it? Because if you can tell them that, they
will understand the clues of what you're saying. And most
people who were a dispensaries absolutely love weed and absolutely
want to help people find the perfect weed for them.
So um, really paying attention to why you like what

you try is just such a great way to kind
of um build your relationship with cannabis. So it's perfect
for for your needs, we don't. I also think that
when I think about you know, many people over the
years have said to me that, oh, yeah, I didn't
really want it, but it made me feel uncomfortable or
paranoid or whatever, and I just not used to try
it again, although maybe they're under pressure or feeling they

should give it a go again because it's becoming so
much more common, um in our society. And sometimes what
I'll do is I'll find that many times people whose
initial experience is like that it said because they used
cannabis for the first time in a social environment where
they were not entirely comfortable, and so my advice to
them will oftentimes be less about strains. It will be

more about well, next time you do it, you know,
do it only with people you really feel comfortable with.
People you don't have to feel that you're being on with,
you know, people you can relax with their Do it
by yourself or with one other person, your partner or friend,
and do it, you know, sitting outdoors or watching a
sunset or maybe taving a swim in the lake or

or something like that, and give yourself another chance to
re encounter marijuana in a in a safe way and
a safe place. Now. You know. One of the things
is that people say they talked about an element of
you know, some paranoia, and I think you did an
episode specifically about marijuana and paranoia. So what was that about?

We did? We have a series that's called Weed Words,
which helps to just dig into the words that you
think you should know but maybe you don't um and
we have a show on marijuana, CBD and paranoia and
the Paranoia show is I love this one because I

think there are two ways to look at paranoia. There's
a physical, you know, the feeling of being paranoid that
a person can have if they have too much cannabis.
And what I have learned and what There are some
studies around this um showing that high THHC can activate
the amygdala in your brain, which increases feelings of paranoia.

So it is a real phenomenon UM. And I also
think that what you said earlier about set and setting
can really play a role. We have another show on
the Munchies, and this also kind of comes to play
with people who are experiencing the munchies. If you have
an expectation that you are going to be super hungry,
you might eat more, and cannabis makes food tastes smell better,

so you're probably gonna like it. And I think the
same thing can can be with with paranoia, where if
you have an expectation that this is something that might
make you feel self conscious, that might make you feel uncomfortable,
then that can become a self fulfilling prophecy um. And
and it just goes back to trying to kind of

confidence in people that it doesn't have to be this way,
that if you get too high, there are ways that
you can come down. UM, And like my CBD oil
tincture tip and and trying to just open up to
this maybe being related to kind of cultural phenomenon. The
third meta layer of paranoia is just you know, all

of the propaganda that has come out of the War
on drugs and fear and very real fear for people
of being arrested. Black people are four times more likely
than white people to be arrested for possessing cannabis. So
there are very real reasons that paranoia and cannabis are
tied together. But we tried to unpack it in this
episode and and break down the specifics so that you

can feel more confident that you can avoid that as
a side effect and also potentially open up your mind
to why you feel that way. Mm hmmm mmmm. So
marijuana and markets, right, I mean, you know, so much
of business is still male dominated. Uh, you know, most
of the entrepreneurs, most of the startups are men. Although

I will say I was just recently at a at
a meeting with all sorts of women, in fact, women
of color, who were engaged in starting their own marijuana
businesses or involved in marijuana regulation or involved in marijuana advocacy. Um,
but what's your sense about, you know, perception is the
proportion of women in the industry growing? Um? I mean,

do you encourage women to shop at women owned stores
or outlets. What's your approach on this. I think it
really comes back to capital and access to capital, and
in an industry like cannabis, which is federally legal, uh,
there's no access to banking and so to fund cannabis
businesses requires either running them off of profits, which are

hard to come by in this industry at this moment
for many people, or raising money, and women historically have
raised two of all venture funding, so of venture capital
money is going to men, and UM, it's it's fairly depressing,

um to think about it. I was just at a
conference with a bunch of women and we were, you know,
experiencing this lack of capital and cannabis and talking about it,
and the men were talking about it and the women
and I kind of moved to the side and we're like,
you know, I think it might just always be this
hard for women. So maybe we're at an advantage in
a moment when capital is really hard to come by. UM.

And I think that a lot of the women that
I know who have gotten into the cannabis industry are
in it because they or someone that they love has
had their life drastically improved by the plan, and so
there's just a very strong passion. UM, this is a
really challenging industry. It's a startup industry, it's federally illegal,

it is completely different by state. There's no interstate commerce.
You know. They're all kinds of chal lenges to scaling
and running a business. And I think that, um, it
is it's hard because the more capital is scarce, the
more likely it's going to go to the bigger companies.
I listened to your fascinating interview with Boris Jordan's, who

I think has a similar view that you know, the
next few years and watching what is going to happen
with something like safe banking could really make a difference
for smaller players, and I do agree with him. I
think that access to capital is one of the biggest
challenges for women and for people of color in cannabis.
Mm hm. You know it's interesting, um. And I was
recently at the ark View conference. You know, the ark

View Marijuana Business conference has been around for quite a
number of years, and that always weaves in some themes
around equity and social justice, cetera. But two people I
met there, um. One was the head of Truly, the
Florida based company. I think it's Kim, who I never
met before, and I that's one of the five biggest companies.

So I guess she's the one woman who's playing at
that kind of top level of things. Um. And and
you know, a lot of the multi state operators are
seeing quite critically by the small business folks. The other person,
by that way, I met with somebody who I think
has been a guest of yours quite frequently, and that's
Dr June chin Um talking about the medical aspects of marijuana.

We had a little connection. I guess she's living in Scarsdale,
New York, which is where I didn't grow up there,
but I graduated high school there. UM. So yeah, June Chinn,
by the way, her expertise is she specialized on women
and cannabis. She has a lot of expertise on women
in cannabis. But I think she just specializes in cannabis. UM.
And there's so few physicians that have that expertise and

are willing to talk about it. Um. That's who I
sent to my friend yesterday who had sent me the
questions about Crownscincy. She's a wonderful resource. M and so listen,
so all this talk about marijuana. And meanwhile, there's this
psychedelics renaissance going on, and you know, there's always been
in the academic world. I mean, I have on my shelves,
I have book after book about women and heroin women.

It's like it's women in pregnancy, women in this one
in that historical perspective, health perspective. In fact, you know,
I grabbed the book off the shelf because my notes
I need. I need a large sized book to to
keep my notes on. And the book I just by coincidence,
grabbed off the shelf is one that came out forty
years ago called Shaman Women Mainline Lady Women's Writings on

the Drug Experience, edited by Cynthia Palmer and Michael Harowitz.
So all which makes me wonder, are you find yourself
getting interested in women and other drugs, notably psychedelics. Are
you gonna stay on this women in marijuana thing for
a while. It's funny that you ask that. I So,
I live in San Francisco and I have been going

to parties where everyone is on mushrooms a lot and
lose basic lodos mushrooms, and I really kind of it's
just it kind of makes me laugh because if you
years ago, it was like Ellen works and weed, and
now it's like Ellen doesn't know anything about mushroom. I mean,
I'll tell you. I was just at a gathering and

it's so I mean, I went over to friends house
and and he showed me the guy who, you know,
the marijuana delivery guy in New York City. And now
the delivery guys are bringing not just all sorts of
cannabis to smoke, but also vade pens and also edibles
and you know, drinkables and tinctures in this and that.
And they're bringing over, you know, seven different versions of
mushroom chocolate bars or mushroom candies and maybe a little

too CB and stuff like that. And I mean, this
is what's going on on the kind of illicit delivery
front um and now the kind of quasi legal delivery
front And the same thing. I'm at a party and
there's somebody's got some you know, kind of micro dozing
or slightly higher level of mushroom stuff. Um, so what
are you thinking? Are you going to be diving in?

You know, I've asked a lot of people about this,
and when I go to conferences, I usually walk in
and I tell myself, I have to learn more about
psychedelics before I leave here. And the people that I've
talked to have said, you're kind of called to it
or you're not, And right now I don't feel called
to it. I think that what's happened for me working

in cannabis and and understanding the way that a legal
market works, and especially around dosage, I just am not
very comfortable putting something into my body than when I
don't know how much is there and can Mushrooms have
been decriminalized in San Francisco, so that could potentially open
up dosing for me, and I'm sure that there are

many many people who could help me with this, but
right now I feel pretty happy um with cannabis. But
I'm fascinated by what I've been learning about psychedelics, which
is really just like the advances that are going to
be possible in the next few years around treatments for
mental health issues. So UM. I was speaking to someone

at this conference that where I was called Trailblazers in
o Hi a few weeks ago at a great conference,
and he was saying that basically, right now, when you
go in and you're talking to a psychiatrist or someone
about a mental health issue. You kind of spill your
symptoms and then they have a handful of drugs that
can help you to combat them, but many of them

come with side effects. Many of them aren't, you know,
very specific about what they're doing. And what the research
into psychedelics of of all different types is going to
allow for is really really targeted care for specific issues.
So I'm thrilled that that is coming. You know, I've
read the Michael Pollen book, I've read sort of the

mainstream books about psychedelics, but right now I'm sticking with weed.
Mm hmm. Okay, Well listen. So you've been doing a
podcast now for three years. I'm at about the one
and a half year more. I'm loving it and enjoying it.
I mean, it's keeping me engaged and I'm both you know,
interviewing a old friends and colleagues as well as meeting
new people such as yourself, and I enjoy the whole

process of it. And and what's your feelings? So, after
three years, do you see yourself continue to do this
for years to come? Do you see yourself branching out
in other ways? In the in the cannabis area. Well,
I am raising money for my business. So if anyone
wants to talk about angel investing in a fast growing
women focus business, I would love to talk more about it.

I love it, and what's the business. This is the business,
this is the education platform, and building a community and
turning it into kind of whatever comes next in cannabis.
I think that community first is the way that a
lot of businesses that focus on women in kind of
newer areas like well being and health related areas UM

start and start strongly because you can develop your ambassadors
and people really need to feel trust. So that has
been a huge just passion project of mine, helping to
develop this community and allow women to feel like they
not only can learn, but but learn from a friend
and learn from someone who is really thinking about UM

how to UM encourage a you know, a happier life
at its root. So I love it. UM It's it's
really fun. Also, you know, I was an English major
and I love to read and I love to write,
and so I get to write all my shows they're scripted,
and work with amazing collaborators. I think that's been a
really fun part about being in podcasting that UM It's

it's certainly not a movie. But you know, we bring
a lot of different people in. I've got my copywriters
who help with our social media. We have all kinds
of sort of different growth areas digitally, because cannabis is
a tricky industry to market in and to try to
grow a business because we don't have access to any
type of digital marketing, so everything has to be organic.
So I'm sort of perpetually looking to see where where

the consumer that I want to talk to might be,
and other people aren't thinking about it. A Pinterest, for instance,
is a really wonderful channel for us and for our podcasts.
We post everything on there and we have a great reception.
So yeah, it's like a super fun puzzle marketing challenge.
This is the most fascinating industry. Cannabis is a fascinating industry,

but so is podcasting, and it's growing nearly as fast.
At least it's legal, right, yeah, it is legal in
all fifty states, not just nineteen all right exactly. And
the website that's connected to all of your work do
the pot dot com, So everything you can check us
out on all the socials where do the pot dot

com or at do the pot and UM, yeah, please
check us out. We've got all kinds of information on
the website. We have so many episodes that I hope
answer all of the questions that women and that just
people in general might be secretly googling and and not
able to find a good resource to answer their questions.
Uh huh, Well, I mean, I so much enjoying the conversation.

I mean, for me, part of what I've learned, of course,
is some of the issues and how they're specific to
women on health and wellness especially, but the other one
is simply, you know, just it's made me. It's given
me a little push to develop a better understanding of
CBD in the high CBD ratio visa v T h
C and looking in that into more deeply. And also
because I haven't done CBD really as a daily supplement,

so I really really appreciate this. So I do want
to thank you, um for taking this time with me
and my listeners on Psychoactive, and I wish you all
the best with your you know, the podcast and your
future ventures. Thank you so much. This has been a
great conversation. I'm so happy to have had it. If

you're enjoying Psychoactive. Please tell your friends about it, or
you can write us a review at Apple Podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts. We love to hear from
our listeners. If you'd like to share your own stories,
comments and ideas, then leave us a message at one
eight e three seven seven nine six that's eight three

three psycho zero, or you can email us at Psychoactive
at protozoa dot com, or find me on Twitter at
Ethan natal Man. You can also find contact information in
our show notes. Psychoactive is a production of I Heart
Radio and Protozoa Pictures. It's hosted by me Ethan Nadelman.
It's produced by noa'm osband and Josh Stain. The executive

producers are Dylan Golden, Ari Handel, Elizabeth Geesus and Darren
Aronofsky from Protozoa Pictures, Alex Williams and Matt Frederick from
my Heart Radio and me Ethan Nadelman. Our music is
by Ari Blucien and a special thanks to Avi Brio,
s F Bianca Grimshaw and Robert BP. Next week I'll

be talking with Chris Killer. He's the samed medicine hunter
who has explored plant medicines all around the world. For decades,
we'll be talking about cava, the plant medicine from South
Pacific that's making its way around the world. I mean,
I've sat a couple of times and these magnificent cava
ceremonies and drinking this insanely strong cova they called stone cava,

which is minced with a coral head so that you
rupture every last cell of this really fibrous cava root,
giving every little bit of the relaxing compounds out there
and into the water. And you know, it's magical. It's
just plain magical, a breathtaking li so and then you
go out underneath the stars and you get a sense

of the the absolute tiny nous of us and the
absolute gigantic nature of everything else. Subscribe to Cycleactive now
see you don't miss it.
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