QLS Classic: Marley Marl

Marley Marl shares some of his studio secrets and talks about how he earned his spot as a legend in the early NYC scene.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yo, y'all check it out.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's Fonte fantigolo here with this week's QLs classic. All right,
this week we talked to the man, the member of
the legend, Marley Mal. This one was originally released January eleventh,
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
And listen, it's Mally Mal.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
You already know what it is, Marlly Mal Juice crew,
you talking everything ll mamasa to knock you out. He
shared some of the studio secrets and talks about how
he earned the spot as a legend in the really
New York City scene. This is an incredible episode with
one of my favorite producers of all time. Get into it.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
QLs classic.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Alright you Peaci.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
Primo self Primo rod ca so Primo self Premo, roll
call Suprema something. Tell me Selpremo roll call Suprema something
something Supremo roll call.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
My name is Questo. Yeah, I know the time there
weep in the rocks. Yeah, at the jump of a dime.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Suprema something, Supremo role called Suprema son something, Supremo role.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
My name is fante. Yeah, I got so much soul.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, West Love Supreme.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, and we in control God.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Suprema something something, Supremo, Role call, Suprema something Supremo, role call.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
My name is Steve, yeah, without a flaw. Yeah, they
call me sugar.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, Supremo, roll call, Suprema Son Supremo, roll call Bill.

Speaker 5 (01:57):
Yeah, to the extreme yea dropping bars Yeah, Chris Love Supreme,
ro car Suprema.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Son, Suprema, roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo, roll call rhyming.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, I have no skills. Yeah, so what's my name?

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, call me, Oh, Suprema Son, Suprema, roll call Supremo.

Speaker 6 (02:29):
Yeah, wit New Year's Blessings. Yeah, I can't wait to play.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, roll Suprema, So Suprema, roll call Suprema So Supremo.
Role called.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
My name is Morley. Yeah, it's all on me. Yeah,
when we get through.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah, what's it for me?

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Oh, Sprema Son, Son Supremo, roll call Suprema Son, Son,
Suprema Role, Suprema, Supremo, Role, Suprema Son Supremo Role.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode
of Course Love Supreme, the first of this new year.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Happy New Year to all of you, Supreme.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes we made it. We we Yes it did not
drink ourselves at all. Last year, we did not drink
ourselves whatsoever. No, I'm your host, quest Love, and we
have another really great show in store for you. On
the show today, we have one of the most important
people in hip hop history. And that's not an exaggeration. No,

(03:46):
but I'm known to exaggerate. I'm known to go full
extreme on everything. But no, seriously, you know, no, seriously,
I would no for real, this this this, this man
was a pioneer and and he is history. And I

(04:10):
don't want to make it sound like it's it's it's
old in the past, but this man is one of
the most important figures in mind. His DNA runs through everybody, Yes,
in the development of some of the best moments in
hip hop history. Hey, hey, hey, I don't breathe dust. Now,
let's welcome our elder tell let's just give it up

(04:30):
for Mollie. Mam, Hey, hey, what's going on?

Speaker 4 (04:34):
It's going on?

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Lest Hello, how are you?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
How are you? Thank you?

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Thank you for coming?

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Uh you know to be here?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
You know you called and I gotta come here. At
the drop of a dime. You came, you came. Yes, Uh,
we have so many questions, uh for starters. I'm really
glad that you're here because for all of the folklore
that we've heard about hip hop history in the Bronx
and the in the Bronx and the Bronx and the

(05:01):
Bronx and the Bronx, I know that the other girls
have their history too, and that's rarely, rarely.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Rarely heard about, no doubt, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
And I know that you were born in Queens Queens
Queensbridge Projects, you know, ninety six buildings of terror AKA,
you know, But that's why I was brought up in
l I C. Queens Bridge Projects. Really, so you were
born there and you born and raised there.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
I lived there all my life.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
I mean my mom's she was there before I was born,
you know, and then you know, then when I'm when
I was born, then we moved to another apartment, and
then we was there for forty more years.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
I'm lucky enough to be able to get my mom's
up a house in my career later on in life
and finally move out the project. But my moms was
there for over forty forty joints. Wow, So what was hardcore?
So what was what is the history of hip hop
coming to queens? Like to hear to hear the focalos

(06:01):
say it was only in the Bronx and only in
the Bronx, But I mean for you to be as
legendary as you were, you are you telling me that
you had to travel all the way to the Bronx
to get well. The first time I ever heard hip hop,
it was I was in high school because we had
DJs and queens. There was more on the on the
disco tip, you know, because when you when you when
you look at hip hop and what they did for
and coined the phrase hip hop around what they were doing.

(06:24):
It was a little different from what everybody else was
doing in the city. You know, when Cool Herk had
his parties, he was playing the break parts of the
of the music and queens they was playing the whole mute,
the whole record, the whole song, the whole song, but
they was taking the break sections. And you know that's
why I could say that. You know, everybody had DJs,
everybody had their movement, everybody had they toasters on the mic.

(06:47):
But I could tell you that that that hip hop element.
It definitely came from Cool Herk because he was the
first person. And maybe it wasn't on beat, you know
what I'm saying. I heard the tape site right right,
really right, It wasn't really on beat, but you know
they were.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
They brought something different.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
They was playing at the break big part of Apache
where in Queens would have played the whole record. So
did you just come out the gate love of music?
Like how did music and spending your life like in
your childhood? It got to me because my older brother
Larry Ladd in the in the record The Bridge last year,
it was like Jappie Jack Gas cool brother by the

(07:27):
name of Gas t Tom and then my brother Larry Ladd.
It was early DJs in Queensbridge and the Bridge record
because you know, in the Bridge record, we was just stating,
you know, what we saw growing up, right, So we
were stating the things that we saw. We never said
hip hop started in that rhyme. Yeah we know that,
but you know, we just was describing things we've seen
growing up. And my older brother was a DJ and

(07:47):
you know, my stepfather kind of you know, talked them
out of being the DJ and like yo, you know,
you know, there's no real money in that. You don't
going to service man going to service. So he went
to service bathing, you know. But it was all good
because he went to the service and he worked at
NASA and retired from NASA, so he did really well.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
You know.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
I took the DJ route who records. Yeah, that's why
you know my record, my my library's kind of extensive
because I got their records when he left. I had
a tachi, I had, you know, a lot of the
records that I was sampling was their records. So you

(08:25):
have a natural version, right had their original the African
woman with the other on the other side, the colorful one.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Wow. Yeah, okay, So what.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Was digging like back then? If there wasn't a thing
that's digging culture. I mean, for me, digging was just
going to my brother's creates at that stuff they used
to play because they were dancer guys. They was you know,
there was there was break dancers before break dances. Everybody
was a dancer. On every DJ crew had like their
dance crew with them. I could just say it like
there you go. So in older records they used to play.

(08:58):
Digging for me was just going through some of my
brother's old records that they used to play, because I
used to see them play a lot of records, and
by the time I got to be a DJ, I
would remember a lot of stuff that would make the
party move. And I would just go right into my
brother's records and then h to be honest, a lot
of the records that I would find and start sampling.
Then they would make those breakbeat records. After this around

(09:20):
my brother, I started DJing around about seventy eight or
seventy seven. I got the bug. There was like a
song called Disco seventy seven out I had drums on it,
and you know, and I heard that. I was like,
oh okay, And I played at a you know, a
house party in Queensboro. It was probably around that time.
But before that, my brother and them was dj and

(09:42):
in the park. They was the first DJs to come
out in Queensbridge. It was the first time, you know,
ground zero hip hop was my brother and them doing
they break they dancing and all that in the middle
of the block. And so that, you know, then everybody
else started DJing out there. So would they They would
throw the parties in, Yeah, they would throw the part
and Queens and Queensbridge Center, or they would be on

(10:03):
the block first. Then it got so big way they
had to take it to the river park across the street,
Queensbridge Park. So how in my in my mind, I'm
thinking the folklore of you know, the park jam that
you always hear hip hop a story and speak of
all right, being as though you've seen every level of

(10:24):
presentation from the park jams to full blowing concerts straight
from the tapes. You gotta start with the tapes that
was just circulating the city first. But what I want
to know is what were the sound systems really like? Oh, okay, right, well,
I could tell you, to be honest, I'm gonna just
go down the line. The Bronx they had like a
lot of house speakers put together, like a lot of

(10:45):
people putting this, you know, like housing them together. Ye're
putting their house speakers together, piling them up, taping them together.
And that's how they used to come out, which was
cool because you had to use what you had, right
and Queens they had a little bit more money so
that the sound systems was a little better. The King
Charles and these guys used to come out with you know,
they had. They had rich Al Long systems, really rich

(11:08):
store them like they believe me, King Charles and them,
they they had I believe they had the Richid Long system.
And you know Twins had a Richid Long Sis. Disco
Twins had Richid Long births. The Queen's Guys was coming
out with the birth is Brooklyn now since the Caribbean
and Brooklyn was always bumping forever. You know, there was

(11:28):
always Eastern Parkway, so that rubbed off on the DJs.
So so when you was coming through on Eastern Parkway
with the Jamaican music, somebody figured out, Yo, you don't
got to be playing Jamaican music with this music, with
this sound, you could.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Put hip You could put Thisco, regular records, regular records.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
So Brooklyn was banging with systems because Eastern Parkway was
always the ship okay, and and it kind of rubbed
off because you got to think about, this is what's
never mentioned in hip hop and the creation of hip hop.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
And I was formed, Jamaica has a big influence on
how it was started.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Here you look at the main people, the main players, Hirk,
you know the system guys. You know the sound system
guys used to come out the you know, what's his name,
Pete DJ Jones and you know all these guys used
to come out with big systems, right what's his name?
King Charles was Jamaican. He had one of the biggest
systems in the city back in the days. So just

(12:24):
let our listeners know in Jamaica, like the more bass
you had, the more bass cabins you had, you know,
stomach rumbling inducing, right, Basis that was the important factor
right now when you speak with cool Herk, he was
basically probably jamming, bringing his music out. For what he's
seen when he's in Jamaica as a kid, the music

(12:44):
was always out. He got to America, you was boring
around here bringing the music out. You're talking about, I see,
let's go to the park, Let's take it to the
let's have a party of it, bring the music out,
the sounds.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
What are you talking about? Let me show you what
I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
He did it. Then he probably got bored and playing
the whole record to get down part Oh, that's the
part of everybody get excited about. I'm gonna do a
whole party, which is playing nose. That's what he said,
and that's how it started. I just gonna play the
hot part of the records. That's it. You were playing
these parks in seventy seven. No, I was watching the
Disco Twins, my brother and them was playing probably about

(13:19):
seventy five ish, seventy four ish and three ish. By
then my brother went to the service. I started seeing
the Disco Twins come I got in high school. I
heard rap for the first time, and you know, I
had formed my own little crew. I was a little
DJ around the way. We wasn't we wasn't doing we
wasn't we wasn't rocking break beats. We just we was

(13:39):
doing what we saw. Okay, you get what I'm saying.
So we saw the Disco Twins in our area, so
obviously we was following that. But when I heard rap
and got my crew together, the game changed. I'm assuming
that around seventy eight, seventy nine, it hits you or like,
how are those tapes come from the Bronx? How do
they go to queens? Like?

Speaker 3 (13:58):
All right?

Speaker 1 (13:58):
So it was it was weird because those tapes in
the early part of hip hop, man, you know, when
they was only doing it in the Bronx and Harlem,
those tapes would go throughout the city like fucking like
the Internet, right, they were spread throughout town like the Internet.
Everybody would be coming to school with one of those tapes,
and you know, it was the greatest thing about that time.

(14:20):
You know, the schools were so integrated in New York
City at that point. You have people from Harlem in
your school. You have people from the Bronx in your school.
You know, you have people from Queens. So one good
thing I can say about the schools in New York
City you was able to see everybody's style because everybody
was it was all integrated. You know, people was from
Manhattan in your school, so you got to see what

(14:40):
they was doing in Manhattan. I was in a school
called Manhattan High. We act dudes from the Bronx. So
what would they doing in lunchtime? If somebody wasn't over
there beating on the table, somebody was coming through a
big radio playing a breakout tape with echoes, and everybody's like, oh,
and I'm like, I heard somebody rhyming over dance with
the drummers beat. It changed my life, really, yeah, that

(15:01):
changed my life.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
I heard it.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
It was this way before rappers light and yeah, yeah, yeah,
this before rappers. I heard it was just a breakout
tape and you know it was dancing drummers beat and
of course they was cutting it off beat because you
know they ain't probably didn't have Q yet. But he
was out there talking and going to freak out out
and they had the echo on it. It was burnt.

(15:23):
He was going yeah, yeah, yes, yes, y'all y'all.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
And the echo out YO.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Me and Polo looked at each other because Polo was
in my school DJ he was in my school.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
We looked at each other like, yo, what is wow?
And Yo.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
The rest was like it was yo. I went and
started a crew, a short shot crew in Queensbridge after that, and.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
I was on my way.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
At Queensbridge is this time like if you live there
all your life, why are you recognizing a three year
old Nazia Jones? Do you see that's navee old prodigy
the little the toy guns in the window. I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
It wasn't quite like that.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
The funny thing about Proligy wasn't from the Bridge but Havoc.
He actually lived in Burnoff Fowler's building because it's so
much burnoff foul from the Peace Boys that also yeah, yeah,
he's from QB. He sings, he sings with the Rolling
Stones right now. Yeah, yeah, so he they lived in

(16:28):
the same building. Damn like lightning struck twice in that building.
So the Peace Boys, that whole family is from that.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Burno Off Fouler and his brother Fred and yeah and
his sister. I never knew that.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, from Queensland.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Now. I was in the next building from that making
all my hits.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Really yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
That was on twelfth Street.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
So I used to hear Havoc's uncle blasting the music
out of his window on the fourth because the Fowlers,
I think they lived on the first or the second
in the building. And then the Anything Dimples delved in
the next building. So it was a lot happening on
twelve Street right there. So you would have the system
battles of the windows, yes, yes, yes, and right in
the windows your own radio. It was battling right out

(17:12):
the window. And that's that was the house where I
made like Everybody's president. That was the house where I
would watch the people walk across the block and go
to the train stage and if they wouldn't stop dancing,
if they wouldn't stop and start dancing, I would scrap
the beat.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
What right, So I knew I was blasting out, nobody
would stop and go.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Oh oh oh, I'll probably scrap the beat and start
something else until I see somebody do that.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
And those are the most of the beasts that I kept.

Speaker 6 (17:39):
That's dope research, Like that's.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
Like we should go back.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
It's like your very gordy sandwich to yeah, yeah, dolloaded sandwich.
Where do you make the transition from? Because I guess
the first time that I heard of you that a
Leams record was really really big in Philadelphia and that

(18:05):
was le Roy Burgess, right, yes, it definitely wasn't the Isleens.
What's funny? What's funny about? That's like that's where I
was headed before. Kind of well, okay, explain explain to
me the edit culture because I know that between like
eighty two and eighty four it was like the Latin rascals. Uh,
I mean, who else were was in that world where

(18:28):
they used those like the art noise hard drums and
you know what I mean, like.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
Like jelly Bean was in that. So you were about
to go that route first.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I was there because you know, you got to think,
like you know, the great Daryl Payne also lived on
my block in Queensbridge too, so he wrote a lot
of records like thanks to you. You know, yes, I
can't even sit there and mention records. But he lived
on the block. So Andre Booth was there. It was
like it was so musical in Queensbridge. These guys had
records before me on the radio.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
You know.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Andre Booth made this beat his mind, rock shock and
all of that. All these dudes lived in my hood.
And I'm looking at these guys like, wow, these are gods.
Their music is on the radio.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
I'm not even a DJ yet.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
I'm trying to hang around these guys, you know what
I'm saying, and you know, and and and and figure
out what they're doing in the studio. And Andre gave
me a shot to hang out, and he introduced me
to Arthur Baker. And that's how I started, you know,
that's how I started. Matter of fact, the first session
I ever went to with him was Jazzy's Insation. So
you were an apprentice of Arthur Baker. Yes, yea Baker

(19:34):
was dog the things you learned, So Arthur Baker is
I mean pretty much uh, you know, planning from planning, breakers, revenge,
on the beat Street and I believe did he not
have a handing candy girls? Of course? Of course.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Addition, that's why Dimple's d record was on street Wise Party.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Okay my first record, boy, I thought it was Sucker
DJ's Yeah, Sucker DJ's DJs that was on Party Time,
the Party Time. It was on Party Time label. That
was because I remember it's yours being on the Party
Time def jam right, So who owned Party Time? That
was Arthur Baker, I believe, and I think later on
they broke off and went to with Russell with that.

(20:22):
I do believe. You mean to tell me that Rick
Rubin and Arthur ber Baker could have been a combo
and it fell apart and then I don't know the
things you learn, yeahs to investigate. Yeah, so it could
have been something by that point, like what how legendary
was Arthur Baker's status?

Speaker 3 (20:41):
To be honest, when he first heard My Dimples the demo,
he was working in a warehouse in a story of
Queen's Okay, we want to go see him at a
warehouse at lunchtime. So it was nothing popping from yet,
not even Planet Rock or it was starting the label
because we had Party time, and that was the beginning

(21:03):
of the label. That was like one of the first
two records off the label. So when he first started
dropping Hiss dropping his joints, he heard my demo at
lunch break in the story at a warehouse next to
the story of projects.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
So he's working what equipment now around? I guess it's
eighty three, eighty two, eighty three or what equipment are
you using this? At this time, I had a four
tracker set in my house, a task scan that barret
from my dude, Paul. It wasn't even mine, okay, so
you were just and I made mally scratch off that one.

(21:39):
But I'm saying, like, what what drum machine? What drum
I had? Mally scratch? I made it off of my
eight oh eight triggered by my Corg SD. It was
a sample of our delay for one second sampler our delay,
and it had but the important part on it, it
had trigger inputs on the back, so that enabled me

(22:01):
to trigger off my eight or eight to whatever sound
I had in there. So that's how I was able
to make my beats.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
So this is leading me to science.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
It's science. This is leading me to believe that you
actually read the manual instructions on your drum machines, because
with most people I know, they were just like I
taught myself for blah blah blah taught me. I learned triggering, triggering,
I call it triggerology from working at Unique Recording, because
you know, if I was working there with authoring them,

(22:30):
believe me, all every record that was ever made and
that eraror was made at Unique, So was he working
on there was there was already into triggering, Like there
was already into triggering drum sounds on all they dance stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Wow, already?

Speaker 1 (22:48):
So can you explain how that because it sounded so
it sounds so futuristic, I mean, especially in eighty three
eighty four. I mean this is pretty much the club
break dance soundtrack of that period, right, but this is
not made with musicians. I mean, first of all, were
you just accepting the fact that there has to be

(23:11):
a new way to make music and make dance music
and all this technology I have to learn?

Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, I mean especially at that studio, Like yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I was very very very fortunate because the guy Bobby
Nathan that own Unique, he was like a tech head.
Anything that came out he would want to be the
first studio in New York to have it. Come make
your shit over here, because we got the Cinclavia. They
had the Sintclavia before anybody had it. They had the Cinclavia,
they had the Emulator. Feel like they had that. They

(23:43):
had everything before everybody. They had the Emulator, they had everything.
That's how I was playing the Emulator and Release Yourself.
They didn't even have a twelve hundred out yet.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Let me, I do want to play that version?

Speaker 1 (23:55):
What makes it? Because you're not you didn't produce the
actual Leroy Burgess deuced right with them and them and
the Aleans brothers, the Twin brothers. What's so weird about
this is that Women's got the Philadelphia like this is
on side too. It's like the Dove version, right, but
somehow that became the only verson to play. I've never

(24:17):
even heard the actual proper the radio edit, like so yeah, okay,
this this definitely ruled my summer in in Philadelphia during
all the eighties. Uh is Release Yourself the remix by
the what they were called the Fantastic Yeah, the Fantastic Alleens.

(24:40):
You gotta put that that sus Love Supreme only on fand.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
So that was release yourself.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
One of the was this your first remix or that
was that was actually one of my first remixes that
I've done. That was one of the hottest ones. And
that's where I was going musically, That's where I was going.
I was not even thinking about hip hop. Yeah. I
read in your interview with NPR a couple years ago
you were saying that you were kind of hit it
more towards the electronics side of things. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
I mean, come on, I grew up.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
With for Giorgio Moroder. Bro Georgio Moroda made me a producer.
You made me want to get into technology because they
was doing things way before everybody in Germany.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
You gotta hear they was triggering in the sixties.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Come on, sorry, I'm looking at these guys like, yo,
they way ahead everybody over here. I'm trying to be
like them. How did they make I feel love? Sound
like that?

Speaker 3 (25:40):
It bugged me out.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
So by that point, your goal was to elevate club music,
and like, what was your feelings of hip hop at
the time you were looking at hip hop. I didn't
even say I didn't like hip hop. I was wait,
what I did not expect. I liked hip hop tapes.
I love the hip hop tapes, but I didn't like

(26:02):
hip hop records. I didn't really like hip hop records.
I was like, so when you hear when you heard
love rap, you weren't like, I gotta grab for these
love Wrap that was later on. Love Wrap was a
little bit well no, No, I just meant like there
was some note that was that was moment that was
kind of like later on. But the early joints, like
the King Tins come on. You get what I'm saying.

(26:25):
Even even even as a DJ, you didn't think like, Okay,
this will keep the party going, this is what the
kids want. Nah, that is shocking, God of hip hop,
because I have to spend time, right, you have to
think about the time records that That's why I had
to That's why I come change things. But hear me out.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
You gotta hear me out. You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Cause first I was like, yo, I don't I don't really,
I don't like where it's going. Because when I first
heard rap, it was off of a tape. It was scratching,
it was echoes, it was breakbeats. It was like an
occasional gunshot from from a a fight at the you know,
because the tapes you see sometimes and with a shootout.
Oh yeah, everybody scuffling and running and it stand to
the tape, Oh it was a shootout.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Oh the party was but anyway, But you.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Know, so once it got on Wax, you felt it
got too horigonized, and I felt that it didn't sound
like what I fell in love with. It wasn't.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
It wasn't James Brown.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
You get what I'm saying, because I see the tapes
I was getting, come on you you throwing on funky
drummer and they rhyming with the echoes over that.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Now you want to give me a.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Band playing good Times And I'm supposed to be impressed
after I was been cutting up good Times and seeing
the crowd react to how they reacted to the real
stuff and the real deep and a realm on it.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
So when the records came out, I was like, no, it.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Ain't like that. That's weird because I mean, having no
knowledge of that. I mean I would listen to I
would listen to something like uh okay, take like sugar
Hill Groove. I knew about catch groove because I grew
up next door to a DJ, so I always remembered

(28:08):
hearing right and always knows he always played the like
our rooms were adjacent to each other and our households.
So I always remember that break. As a drummer, I
remember that break and didn't put two and two together
that like, oh, okay, sugar Hill is just approximating. It
didn't hit me until I was older that I got

(28:29):
what they were doing, that the technology wasn't there to
really to really reproduce what that moment was. So you're
saying that by that point nothing on sugar Hill. I
was no. I was not impressed because you know, even
when I have the DJ for Magic, I wasn't. I
wasn't a hip hop DJ. I was a blender. I
was playing in the clubs already. I was doing disco.

Speaker 6 (28:51):
So what was the first record that you heard on
wax beyond your own that you was like, all right, maybe.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
It could have been around maybe around around love rap
because of the beat was so hot. That sounded like
a breakbeat to me. So that's when it got a
little better. But the earliest shit I couldn't. I couldn't
stomach it. I was like, nah, this ain't going nowhere, but.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yo, beat this.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
She ain't going nowhere, I'm saying in my mind. But
you know, it kept going and then mister Magic started
playing it. And I wasn't even listening to mister Magic.
So was he established? Yeah, before you even started ding
with him, Yes, he was. He was on the radio
playing rap music already. I was a disco DJ playing
at Pegasus. He was on the radio playing rat Okay.

(29:37):
At what point was he on the radio? He went
to WHBI I had to be I had to be
like had to be like seventies. It was in the
seventies or something like, so he has long history, has
seventy eight seventy nine is maybe early eighties something like that.
He started going on the radio. But at that point

(29:57):
I wasn't even into the I wasn't even I was
one of the believe that wasn't going nowhere until it
started getting a little better.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
When did it get better?

Speaker 2 (30:05):
To you?

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Sucker mcs ah tell me about Larry Like right, Sucker
mcs gave me hope. It gave me so much hope.
I made Sucker DJs my first record.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
That's a mighty statement.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Uh you know what I'm saying, I want I want
I want to run Socker DJ's real. So Dimple's D
from your what building? When she in She's from twelve
Street and Queens Bridge.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
She lived in that same Royd buildings, burn Off, Foul
and Havoc and I.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Lived in Okay. So this is your official first production,
my official first the response to soccers from run DMC.

(30:57):
I was m the night I was sell good, so
the film was right.

Speaker 6 (31:01):
I came to the party for a different kind of
actions and next thing.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
I know, I was doing with Michael Jason out.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
This is Quest Love Supreme on Pandora.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
You just heard Sucker DJ's by Dimple's D and today's
guest legendary DJ and hip hop producer Marley mal This
is on a lyndrum Lynn Drum. I even THOUGHTS and
I went to Unique, I rented two hours of time.
It was thirty five dollars an hour.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
You had to rent it.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yes, I had to rent it. You couldn't do it
by on their back. No, no, no, I wasn't even
working there, y'all. I just lived in the neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
The studio was up the street.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
I heard they had a Lynn drum in there, and
I and I got it was thirty five hours an hour.
I got two hours of time. I went there and
tapped out a few beats and recorded them on my
four track, and I took the four track home and.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
She did her vocals in my living room. Wow.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
So the setup in your house, I believe the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame has a.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Matching. Have you seen it?

Speaker 1 (31:55):
It's like a mock setup of what your studio would
look like, at least at the when I was visiting
the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. This is like
back in two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
What is your home system looking like? At this point,
I had like a little four track, a sunboard and
that was it. So what were your neighbors thinking at
this moment? They probably was thinking, well, I wish he

(32:17):
would turn that shit down sometimes and take to speak
out the damn window. So at that time in the eighties,
did you feel secure with like your livelihood inside that
building or was it just that you never left it
for anything to happen.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
No, I just never left it for anything that happened.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Plus, I was the neighborhood DJ that you know, people
was getting famous, and people would sit outside my building
just to see who's coming to my house.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
So it was all good at that point.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Okay, I want to ask about your pop art period. Yeah,
because I instally thought you were a Philly guy. Right,
I'm from Philadelphia, you know I got I got a
shout Philly out.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
How did you meet the Goodmans? Dude?

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Philly put me on really in hip hop, man, I
gotta say it, because if it wasn't for Lawrence and
then with Rox Sans Revenge, Rox Sans Revenge was pinnacle
for me. Okay, that was like a pinnacle point in
my career when I got tooken serious after that. Before that,
I was, you know, dj on doing this some round doing,

(33:21):
you know, trying to put out these other records and
these something no examples. It blew up and Philly put
me on, put us on, just to let our listeners know.
So around nineteen eighty four, a group of Brooklyn producers
Full Force Right Right, put together a record called Roxanne

(33:44):
Roxanne That's right TFO. One of the actually, am I
incorrect for saying that that might be the first time
that an actual break beat was used or modern hip
hop because big beat, that's right break Orange educated rapper
second verse. So I don't know what it was about

(34:06):
this record, but I mean it's the typical storyline of
three guys trying to kick it to a female and
they all get rejected and somehow. I mean, this was
one of the first viral moments. I mean, if it's
social media were invented, this would be the trending number
one trending topic because as a result, so many response

(34:29):
records came out for Roxanne Roxanne, and we didn't even
meant I didn't even mean for it to be a record.
Once again, this was another Marly Mall exclusive. I want
to have a special record for me being a DJ,
and someone heard it and made a record out of it.
I wanted to dub plate special with a female talking
about I'm rock sand and I played it on Mister

(34:51):
Magic Show and it was.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
It was fire.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
It was like I played a few days before Christmas.
By Christmas Eve, it was number one on Billboard. How
did you rox Sante Chante? She lived on my block
in Queensbridge, and she know she used to always see
her and the siphers on the block. You know, she
used to always be insiph as her a dude named
Infinite and empty Shan. There was like battling everybody on

(35:14):
twelve Street, and I used to always see them. And
you know, one day she she was doing her laundry.
You know, she said, Yo, knocked on my door.

Speaker 6 (35:21):
Yo.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
You know you like that rock Sanding record.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
I said, Yo, She's like, Yo, I got something for that.
I'm thinking that myself. Well, I have a special dub play.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Oh, come do that.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
So she came.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
We dub played it.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Up and one take she ran back down was doing
her laundry. She did it between the laundry break. Yes, yeah,
the space brother seriously near one take yeah, one take,
one take we got to had one cassette playing the
instrument through another cassette recording, and she got on the mic,

(35:54):
did her thing on one take, ran back downstairs, and
the next week she was a star. Are there two
versions of the Yes we have to we do it? Yeah.
I feel like I've heard the original twelve is I
heard with the she asked.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
One that the ask yo, let me explain.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
It wasn't as exciting. But then I heard a version
when she's like really screaming and explain. The first version
that came out, they took the version that we played
on the radio and pressed that one up and that
was the first batch of records that went out, the
version I played off the radio. I didn't give him
the master. We gave him a copy of us playing
it on the radio.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Oh my good Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
That's why he said that, because he said that on
the radio.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Oh my goodness. I thought that was part of the record.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh No, that was that was That was him live
on the radio saying, oh my goodness after he played it.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
We gotta play this, yo.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
This is Roxanne's Revenge on court only on Pandora with
the great mally Man. Will be right back.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
My name is don't know. I just a cold rock
up bunny, and I said, I'm at you see you guys,
and you know it's to let me tell you and
explained them.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
All right, this quest some supreme. We're here talking to
hip hop producer Marley More about his days as a
legend in the making so and also a hook singers
singing days. So were you a part of the other
Roxannes that came out? Because I saw Roxanne doctor and
well there was the real Rocks, the real Rocks and

(37:39):
rock Real Rocks. Was the Puerto Rican girl with the.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Blond here the forces.

Speaker 6 (37:45):
Okay, doctor Roxane, that's the original.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Right, he was the first one.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
She was the first one. So at any point was
there I mean, in our heads we're just thinking like,
oh man, bloodshed caltfight's going to happen. But at any
point did you ever kick it with full force or
the thought of the idea of you know, doing something
together or whatever. No, I think that went right out

(38:12):
the window as soon as they came with, you know,
they tried to do a real rock saying yeah, but
she was she was. She was dope. Yes, she didn't
have to fire off Chante, but she was really dope,
and you know, and you know after that, I mean,
Chante was the last one standing at the end of
the day. Chante was really the first one that did it.
She was on all the tours, she got on Fresh
Fest with all that, you get what I'm saying. She

(38:34):
she she had us on private planes real quick, really,
and I didn't even have a call yet. So at
this rate you're saying that this was catching on national.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, we had sometime three shows in one day and
we had a private plane so we could be here,
go there, and then go to the next show and
just you know, it was just that away from like
what were the gigs like? Was it just try State northeat.
We would go you know, we would go to we
went to Cincinnati, then we would go to what's that Pennsylvania? Okay,

(39:09):
then we'll go to you know, maybe Ohio or something
like that. We would do it like that and just
hit the one song and one and done and two
songs and be out, you know, one song and I
played eight o eight when he just doing the freestyle
and then we'd be out. Really, now you pick somebody
out of the crowded this and get the crowd amped up.

(39:29):
She was on a Millie Jackson who taught him like,
so are you are you who's teaching the the entertainment
aspect of your juice crews? How tell you something? Mister
Magic was very If you think he was rude on
the radio to other artists, you couldn't imagine how he

(39:50):
would be to us as artists, like you ain't wearing
that ship on stage with us.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
You're not going out like that, Oh motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
You ain't ready. He told Cae many times, Yo, you
ain't going out on stage with your hair like that.
And and then that's when Kine got started getting the
hot top fade.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Before you had a big old afro.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
What yeah, the seventies iry some damn that's the Magic
would have hated me. I know, mister Magic saying he's like,
you can't go on stage like that represent with us.
Then all of a sudden, King came back with the
hot top fake.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
But it worked because he's kind of marketing them looking like,
you know, if you're gonna be the ladies man, you
can't be the ladies man like that. So oh, there
you go. Now that's the look that we're looking for,
and they went with it. And and that's why came
was the sex symbol out of us. I guess we
should we shouldn't note that. Uh, what's notable about Marley's
presence in hip hop. It's the fact that you know

(40:46):
you represent will represent a wave of one of the
first families in hip hop. There you as opposed to
just you know, individual acts coming out at the time.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
And we're speaking of the Jews.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
So did you and mister Magic have this grand scheme
like we're gonna develop acts and then I'll play them
on our radio show, and you'll spin it on the
radio show.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
And you know it was you know what it was.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
We're in such a battle man, you got to think
it was battle mode. A lot of songs we made
was ammunition to fight Red and Chuck on Kiss FM.
Explain all right, explain the initial rivalry between Red and
all right, this is how it all started. Mister Magic
was on the radio and BLS for about a year.

(41:32):
Then then Kiss FM decided, Hey, they went in over
there with that rep. Let's get it. Let's get a
wrap show too. They got they got Jazzy Jay first.
Matter of fact, I think it was it got Jazzy
j first. He did it for a minute, he didn't
like it. He passed it on the Red. Then Red
and Chuck started splitting it. And then after a while, okay,
now we was doing it for a year and then
they started coming up. So that second summer, oh, it

(41:54):
was brutal in the city. Now it's two stations playing
rap on the weekends. Now, all right, this is before
the summer actually when school was in this was this
was just before that summer when everybody went to school
with a new regular tape or mister Magic tape every
Monday back in school. You heard what they played, hen

(42:14):
it is, So we started, we started blowing up. Then
those tapes would go around the world. Those tapes would
travel to Philly. You get what I'm saying, y'all would
get those tapes down south. I know people down south
and Atlanta was slinging tapes. You get what I'm saying.
So those tapes were moving around. So it started a
big radio rivalry, Kiss FM against w b l S.

(42:35):
And now now all of a sudden, now I need
AMMO because mister Magic was the type of person you know,
God rest his soul. He was good at heart, but
he would get on the air and this this is
an artist. So that means that artists would be mad
at him out of ass on millions?

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Was he really talking about them?

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yo? One day I played the public and in the
middle of the record, he yo, Mally Mary turned that off.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
He could cut his Michael, turn that off.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
I turned it off, your man, no more music from
the Sockers quick.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
And I was like, I just start. I'm looking at him, like, Yo,
what did you just say?

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Man?

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yo?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Because I'm the DJ with you, I don't want to
like we want to air together, like what did you
just say?

Speaker 3 (43:22):
No more music from the sucker?

Speaker 2 (43:23):
So it went by.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Then a few weeks later PubL Agatay put that on
the on their record. When somebody took the recording of
him saying it on the show and put it on
the record.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
He is speaking of the beginning of pol Amborum Flavor,
which is I.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Guarantee you no more music byd a Sucker, no more
music bind the suckers, no more music by the suckers. Yo, man,
So how did how does Biz enter? And how do
you see Biz more than just a sidekick as a start? Like,
how do you how did you first meet him? Well? Crazy,

(43:57):
I was walking down the street and I was like, Yo,
there's a be box in the building. And I'm like,
come on, man, for real, beat box schmek box. You
thought it was a fat Yeah, I was like come on.
I'm like, I'm like, Yo, Doggie Fresh is out, Buffy
Buffy's out. Ain't nobody touching them dudes? You get what
I'm saying. Like it's gonna be hard. I said, I
don't even want a hair dude. But he's like, you know,

(44:18):
but you got to check him out, Mam Yo, he's phenomenal.
He's something special. So I go back to the building.
He's doing a beat box in the building. All of
a sudden, when he went right, bro, come to my
house to mom. Bro, you dope kid. That was like
he blew me away. He started I want to, I
want to. My name is bis Mark. I was like, yo,

(44:47):
if you're crazy enough to chop your neck in front
of me. So at that point, did you feel like
did you feel like, Okay, I could make anyone a star?
Like did you figure out like you knew what the
formula was to make the streets feel With Biz? It
was kind of like an experiment. I knew that he
could have been a good attraction to what we was doing.

(45:07):
I was like, wow, he's real entertaining. That was dope.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
You know, maybe he could he could rock with us.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
And you know, once he got to me, Chante, Shanta
and him got very close and he started opening up
for Shante. And once I seen the reaction of the
crowd when he started opening with Chante, I was like, Wow,
he's extra special. What was Biz doing?

Speaker 6 (45:25):
When you like? How old was he when you met him?

Speaker 1 (45:27):
He was he had to be like it looked like
he was about eighteen or nineteen or something like that.
He's like, you know, just like a young skinny kid
coming to the hood. Yo. He stayed for the whole weekend.
Finally saw me Sunday. Everybody's like, yo, he was out
here all weekend.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yo.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
He was out here a funny dude.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
He was out here hanging up.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
We just sat on the park bench, wait, brung out
the whole weekend in Queen's Bridge.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
He just hung out with everybody. So that was just
the thing.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Do I'm gonna go to Queens Ridge Project? Yeah, But
that's why I had to move because you know a
few females would do that too, and they would get violated.
So I was like, let me move at it because
I want to be responsible. R oh, I know, I
thank you to him. Come on, man, that was happening
too much. So I was like, you know, let me

(46:16):
I got to get up out of here. Okay, So
are you still going to proper studios to do the
pre production and coming into your crib to know it's
right in the living room in Queen's Bridge.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
With a task him with the assume.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
At this point, the SB twelve, the infamous reel the
real or you're the real? Yeah, like how many outlets
did you have to like it? Because I was.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Electricity go out?

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Nah?

Speaker 3 (46:44):
NOA it was.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
It was pretty cool. I mean it sounds like a lot.
I had a shabby, shitty little studio and made all
those records. It sounds like yo, when you hear the records,
they sound so big and elaborate. But dude, I was
sitting there on like a shitty ester. Quick, you say,
nobody beat some business was just just that was some
some mcguira miracle like that.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Wasn't It wasn't a miracle.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
But the way I would make records, I mean, come on,
I'm triggering from an eight a eight the post from
the eight away is triggering each sample is separately. I
didn't have a twelve hundred yeat. This is before twelve hundreds.
They didn't even have twelve hundred. Yeah, I'm sampling drums
before they even made twelve hundreds to do that. So
I got I got three samplers here with trigger inputs

(47:27):
on the back the times, the low times, in the
high times, just triggering my drum sounds. And I'm using
a regular eight a weight from the eighth eight and
a regular high from the hot eight O eight, but
those are my drum sounds.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Those three samplers was triggering.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
So it was kind of like mcgiverish because yeah, they
didn't have that technology, right, I kind of like me,
I thought of it. So you and Grandmaster Flash. Grandmaster Flash, like,
I want to, you know, invent a system that lets
me hear the music before I'm DJing it, and you
are I want to. I want to you're inventing triggering
without the idea of triggering, right, I'm inventing twelve hundreds

(48:00):
and the whole the whole software program or how they're
doing it, probably before it was even made, because nobody
the twelve the twelve s P twelve came out after that.
I thought you did that on a twelve No, no, okay.
So what was your Ben Franklin Eureka moment? Because I
think our listeners should know that more than any producer,

(48:23):
you're the one that figured it out a way to
take what's on a record and put it through technology
so that we could wrap over that instead without you know,
without DJ going back and forth of all the stuff.
So like, what was your what was your Eureka moment?
Like wait, I can do that. One day we was

(48:44):
working at Unique and I was like trying to sample
something else, and I think the snare went through by mistake,
and I was like rocking the snare with the beat,
and I'm like, that shit sound hot right there. Turn
the other one down. Turn that shit, turn original down,
turn out, turn that line drum down. I'm playing playing
what I was doing with the with the beat. It
sounded so much better. I was like, yo, could we

(49:05):
put this on track? And I put it on track
and I sat there. I was like, hold up, this
means I could take any record I have at home,
any kick snare, make my own pattern with their kicking sneer.
I think I never interned anymore after that day. I
think that was my last day of internship. I think

(49:27):
I never returned. I returned as Mally Mal later to
do mixes and be famous, but I was never intern
no more after that. Okay, so you run home with
the equipment, or you run into your own equipment. I
went home. I went around the corner to sam Ash
and brought little two little samplers. Like I'm thinking back then,
this is super expensive and hard to acquire. No, they
had little samplers for guitar players back in the day.

(49:48):
You know how they got there. You could play along
with it and play right, right, something they plays a
little thing, they play along with it, right, That's what
it was back then.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
I had a sampler like that.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
First I had a trigger on it, and I figured
I could put sound from the record in there and
trigger it. I ever wanted to know, okay, okay, And
so these records you were recording, still at your crib,
still at the crib, my matter fact, my first real
sampler was that was a little box that was this

(50:18):
for guitar player that then you know they have the
loops on it. Yeah, the thing that you do, the
little cork box little thing. That was my first sampler.
But I bought one with a trigger on it because
I already was working at Unique and I used to see, oh, trigger,
everybody's trigger happy.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
The post is popping everything off in here.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Hold, if I could get a sample that pulls to
pop off too, I could put what I want in
there and it's gonna do what I wanted to do.
What was your first thing that you broke that you
were like, oh god, I've discovered a new way of
let me see, and was it Nobody Beats the Biz?
Or it could have been Nobody Beats the Biz that
they could have been that and and make the music.

(50:57):
It was aund make the music time around me, because
I remember I used to like that Isaac Case piano
and when when I messed around and remembered how you
know in hip hop they used to play it in
forty five to make it have that certain tone, And
I was like, if I could make that certain tone
with my own beat, it would be phenomenal. And then
once I made that, I kind of knew I was here.

(51:18):
I was like, wow, that right there because I was
able to take my own kicking, my own snare, go
in the mic and go and make my own high hat.
Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait what.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
What you just saying? Say that one more time?

Speaker 1 (51:37):
I was able to go to the samble and go
in it and be able to play it back like
a shaker.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Ghetto.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Come on, I have nothing.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
I've always wondered what that was, because the thing that's
so Doba about it is that when we would do
that beat like in the lunch room, that's how we.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Were all do it the same way with my mouth.
There you go. That's real quick.

Speaker 6 (52:05):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Wow, wow, yo, I want you I want to.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
That's not a want to.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
It isn't now that I know what it is. Wow,
now that you hear it, now.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
That you know it's not like it wasn't the Dougie
Fresh Shaker. Yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what it was.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
I was going to ask because I know when for
the show with Teddy Riley, like, what was that.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
A DMX DMX because I have a DMX and it
doesn't sound that wow, it's just like and I would
try to tune it down. It doesn't sound that way
off an email on. Yeah, but I figured after that

(53:00):
record right there, I had it, and and to be honest,
I kept my drum sounds in my samplers for about
a week.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
I made about a week's worth of beats before it was.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, but the bridge was one of them. Stunt of
the Block was on Eric Beats, President Drums was one
of them. So at that point I was like, I
kept those drums sounds in. Was there a way to
save it? I was saying cards right now, I had
it on real, So I had on real. That's where
the infamous reel. Okay, infamous reel was my hard job.
We got to talk about him, Piace the President, We

(53:33):
gotta talk about him. Piece the President. I know Munch
has been said about like the importance of funky drummers placing.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
The panfe the President is the greatest break meet up.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
But yeah, I do feel that in Peace to President
is probably the common man's break beat. First of all,
ultimate beats and breaks wasn't out yet, right, So thus,
how did you run across?

Speaker 3 (54:01):
And was it just like a source record that you
were like, this will do well.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I got it. I got my version, my forty five. Yeah,
I saw Aaron Fuchs. Wow. Now see, I gotta be
careful because he's bunked a few shots at me.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
I know about with him peach. But he gave me
it because what happened. He gave it to you.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Listen. I used to This is when I lived in
Queen's Bridge on Vernon Tough City Records was on Vernon Boulevard,
Queens in Long Island City, like a few blocks down, okay,
and you know, and you know, and I was just
coming up and he's like, look, I want you to
go in the studio with spoony G. I can't really
pay you, but I could give you a handful of
forty fives. Now you got to think about it. Aaron

(54:45):
Fuchs was the editor god You did the Godfather.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
That's what I'm trying to tell you. I thought that
you did that. Yeah, I did The Godfather, right.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Here's The Godfather by Spoony G.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm right now, and take it off.
Of course he did.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah, So when I was doing those records, he didn't
have money to pay me, so he would say, hey,
since he was the editor of Billboard for funking soul
in the sixties, so you're ready to know his record collection.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
So he would always say, I.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Got a handful of forty fives for your here. And
there was so many rarities and that shit. Every time
I was like, okay, let me go make a record
for him and get his break beats break, he paid
me with no forty fives, bro and piece to President
happened to be one of them. The irony of everything
is that he was the person that gave me a
piece to President on a trade like that, and was
later to come back and sue.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
For using that very break He gave me Wow, okay,
what is yours?

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
I had a situation where.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
All right, I gotta be very careful because some certain
people were very regitious with what do you mean by
certain people? Exactly? That's that's exactly how he approached me
to like, what do you mean leeches.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
No.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
At the time, there was a situation with where jay
Z and Kanye west otis in which we all know
that Kanye ends the rhyme with Jay is chilling. Yeah,
that's right.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
He did come after him for that, right.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
And you know from what I know is that he
approached h What's light in Milk's Father's na They were like, yo,
he's quoting our song.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Go get him.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
And they were like, well, no, it's just an homage.
Like it's not we don't consider it biting. It's just
an homage. At the end of at the end of
the day, I hear that the amount was somewhere close
to two million. My thing is that the very thing
and this probably extends to me and Boss Bill's argument
about amens versus body on that one, I'm as versus biting, uh.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Stealing somebody style.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Well, yeah, it's like for me, a person like George
Clinton has it where it's like he gives you great
rates to take his stuff, and then you keep coming.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Back for more. Right, keep the keep the prices in
the streets, and everybody come back.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
The problem the situation with with Aaron Fuchs is that
he acquired the rights to impeach the president and then
he just went law suit crazy. Now I noticed that
all these seven figure lawsuits were always aimed the deaf JAM.
So I don't know if maybe he has a beef
with Russell or yeah, because like certain and pre president

(57:49):
usage got on, you know, he let it slide, but
with def Jam it was like one million, one million,
one million, one million budget. Probably. Yeah, what is your feeling,
I mean, especially in twenty sixteen in which I feel
as though we need more and beats the president, right
unless and I'm not I don't want to be that

(58:09):
guy that's like discouraging the future marlies of the world
to not push forward technology.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Right, But.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
If everyone is just trying to cash in on laying
a trap, I feel like it's laying a trap. Right,
I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the most popular breakbeat
right and sue you if you use it. I'm gonna
give it to the most popular producer, let him use it,
get it hot in the streets. Then I'm gonna go
get the rights to it and sue every motherfucker that
use so And that's what happened.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
What is he is he just living off of I
mean the theme the scrubs? Like, no, I think that.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
You know, he looks at it as his business. You know,
somebody's got to do it, you know, I feel his way,
that's his way. I'm just to me, he's looking at
it as business. You know what. It's like, that's the
story of like music, like paying chess artists with cadillacs
and now look at it, you know what.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
It's kind of like.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
It's kind of like when the whole bubble bursted with
sampling itself, when they found out that you could make
money off assuing everybody, everybody went buck wow. At first,
it was like, you know, yeah, we're just doing it
because it sounds hot or whatever whatever.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
We're not even really thinking about it like that.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Once somebody figured it out that yo, you could get
sue for that, everybody went buck wow. It became a business,
and that kind of fucked.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
The music up. Everybody started using doing keyboards, right.

Speaker 6 (59:30):
Is it fairer if it's going back to the arts.
Is that the problem is that the people most times
the breakbeats or whoever originally owns it, it's not going
back to that person who really made the music. Is
that the problem?

Speaker 1 (59:41):
If he were about like making sure the honey drippers
were straight?

Speaker 7 (59:45):
Right?

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Like a good example now is the most one of
the most popular comedy shows on right now today the
Workaholics their theme songs, Yeah, skinny Boys, human job box.
Like none of those guys are They're not even aware
that there is a subculture of comedy now that like

(01:00:07):
when I spend that song now, like any millennials losing
their minds because they're thinking, I'm spending the work the
Workaholics team, like, oh, this is a real song. And
once I did the investigation, like none of those guys are.
They sold their publishing and it's just like it's one
guy that's like just getting rich off the work of
Aholics team.

Speaker 6 (01:00:27):
So then that's the case. So if it was directly
the artist, you would feel a little differently about it.
Marvin Gaye was alive, so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Yeah, but I meant, do you feel paranoid because the
thing is that your drums have single handedly fed and
up the game of hip hop between eighty five and
eighty seven and still to this day, Like that is
you building those drums? Like how do you feel about it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I feel? And is he trying to come? Has he
ever tried to come to you?

Speaker 8 (01:01:00):
Four?

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Just snares and high hats and nah, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
One thing that you can notice when you when you
just have a kick or a snare from it, he
doesn't go at you. Kind of I'm just maybe I'm
letting some out the bag. But I noticed whenever it's
he getting you. But if it's like god, right, just
a straight up snare, right, He's like, oh, you can't
really prove it the way he could prove a loop.

(01:01:26):
How did y'all put up settling?

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
I mean without money? Whatever? Details? Did y'all end up
settling the round the way?

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Girl?

Speaker 6 (01:01:32):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
I paid him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
I paid him. It was like a settlement and he
got like a one time payment and kept it moving.
I believe it. I believe that's how it went.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
So this leads to the infamous real and yes, and
you're you're what I call the not the manum from heaven.
But the two loads of fishing five pieces of bread
or is it five pieces of fishing, two loads of bread,
fishing five loves? Yeah, So so because you're not saving

(01:02:05):
these sounds on disc. No disc was here yet, because
there wasn't no way of saving. There was nothing digital yet.
They didn't have floppy disc for our samples yet because
there was no twelve hundred yet. Right, So what I
would do is put my drum sounds on a reel,
put like one kickbar and then leader, the next snaire,

(01:02:26):
co leader, the next kick, boom, high hats whatever. I
had all my reels, all my sounds on one reel,
and you know, that's how I used to go around.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
I used to go with the artists. We used to
sit there with the reel.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
What kick you want to use?

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Boom?

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
But I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
I like that, and that's how to make it for real. Yeah,
that's has to sit down, sit down with them. He customized,
like we gotta start doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
I think we do that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Yeah, you do that, you play like you like that
and you know you play certain things. But I was
just playing drum sounds for them, not even loops, just
godd shoo, that's not Oh. Then I would sit there,
blow those in, make a quick beat, put put a
put whatever to it, and then let them rhyme. Put
the put the snare in the high hat on one track,
put the kick in the baseline on the other track,

(01:03:16):
put the rhymes on one track, and sampling on the
other fourth track, and we got a record.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Now with that said, I gotta ask you, when you
hear this intro, what are you thinking on? For years
it never dawned on me. I don't know why. For
some reason, I kind of like blocked that record out

(01:03:44):
of my psychic for like years. Probably no, it never
nothing that it. They have existed. I probably never listened
to it. I heard it, but didn't listen to it.
If you know what I mean, It is possible to
ignore something and be willfully ignorant. Like there's one particular
artist in hip hop I can honestly say I've never

(01:04:06):
even I mean, this is like a Bonafi. Everybody in
their mother loves this product. I haven't heard it once
like I will. So as far as you're concerned, right,
criminal minded just never existed. No, I'm that record right there,
We're talking that record South Bronx well the Bridges Over.

(01:04:28):
When when Bridges Over came out, I was like, I
heard it, but I didn't, you know, it didn't. It didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
It didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
It didn't hit me like that was my drum sound.
It didn't hit me like that because I kind of like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
To be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
To be honest, I never thought that, Like when Chris
first came at us, I was like, now, who's stupid
enough to I was like, Yo, who's stupid enough to
believe this dude? Who's stupid enough to believe that he's
saying that we said something we didn't say. Who's that
dumb to believe this motherfucker? And I was like, That's

(01:05:06):
when I realized, Yo, hip hop dumb it in the motherfucker.
I was like, God, damn, who's yo? When he first came,
I was like, Yo, who's gonna believe this dude? We
never said that? And we the motherfucker Juice Crew because
we got Kinge g Rap So and so nigga who
gonna believe that ship?

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
And we and then everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I was like, God, this nigga's a good, good con
He caught ya niggas, he caught a lot of motherfuckers.
My assumption was that it was something deeper than just
him defending behind the Bronx. Anybody wasn't from the Bronx.
To see what I'm saying. He wasn't fron the Bee.
So where is he from? He was from Brooklyn and
the Homeless Shelter Christ is from and Skylar Rock was

(01:05:54):
from the Bee. You get what I'm saying, Please explain?
And I was like saying to mysel yo, who gonna
believe this?

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Dude?

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
But then but then I started really realizing that, you know,
I started realizing that that common sense wasn't as common
as I thought. And I was like, so I kind
of after that, I kind of backed away from hip hop.
I was like, oh, let me just sp but everything
was already done. I backed the way, looked at it.
I said, I know what I'm gonna do. We throw

(01:06:21):
Let me throw cane on these niggas real quick. Got raw,
you know what I'm saying. After raw, I was like, Yo,
now I'm back. I felt good again about it, but
I stepped back after while. So you felt as some
sort of way between eighty five eighty sixcess, I felt
I felt real, you know, I felt real crazy. I
was like, Yo, how the fuck niggas believe this dude?
And that's real talk.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Why what happened? Like, oh, like play record, I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Tell you exactly what happened. He tried to get in
the Juice crew up the day I lost lost my
reel up at power Play. He they was they saw
mister Magic and me in the studio with Shante. Please
mister Magic, listen to our demo. Please please you Marlly man,
come in.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
The room and come in the room with me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
So I, hey, these niggas ship. So I was like,
all right, I'll walk in the room with you. So
I'll go in the room with him. It's like the
Buggy Down production, all of them. They're in the room like, yo,
please mister Magic, Oh thank you for coming in. Yo,
this is a demo And they put it on and
plat it loud on the room like this, jumping around.
He goes. He goes off to the console and shut
that ship down. She was bullshit, man, shut that in

(01:07:26):
front of them, yo. He said that straight in front
of this ship is straight. God.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Do you remember what was it? A song that later
came out? You remember what it was?

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
I don't know. I probably never heard that ship again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
All right, so peep it. They they they had like
four or five songs like no no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
No, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Set they played that one song that he turned down
was like, Yo, turned the volume down.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
In the middle of them jumping around the room trying
to sell it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
He was like, Yo, this is God, but you want
your niggas want real hip hop rock, sane chante, Molly
mal mister Magic, juice true and walked out. So that's why.
And then when he's leaving the studio, I didn't want
to stay in the studio because he dissed them, so
I was trying to get out of there with them
and I left.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
My real wait, how many who was in beat? Like
was it Scott Chris?

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
It was?

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
It was a lot of It was like a whole
room full of people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
It was like, that's what I'm asking It was like
it was it was all of them, all of them
because they were so happy to see mister Magic, and
they were such a fans of mister Magic, and he
dissed them. So it didn't come off like Yo, we
about to fuck him up, or like I mean he
was that was mister magic man. He was arrogant and
liked that back in the day. So retaliation, the retaliation

(01:08:39):
set didn't even get into the minds of hip hoppers
back then, right right, He's like, yo, I'm gonna get
them back. That was only one way in. I mean,
couldn't you him? Then where do you go? Right? And
then what happened too? And see you got to think
about it. Now, this is even before BDP was down
with red alert. They gave read the record, Red jumped
on with them because now he had needed he needed ammunition,

(01:09:03):
so he jumped in their crew. You get what I mean,
You get what I'm saying. So now now when I've
seen the whole wave of the Bronx supporting, I was like,
we didn't say that, but yo, the wind was already
blowing on the fire at that point, so it was
already spread. And like nobody stood back and say, oh,
them niggas never said that. You're talking about stupid, right,

(01:09:26):
you know what I'm saying. So it never it never
got cleared. So I looked at the whole ship for
years like, damn, well have you heard pre criminal minded
b DP? All right, I gotta play events like on
the box set of criminal minded. There's like they're eighty
five eighty six stuff, which is like private demos. Yes,

(01:09:48):
you probably heard this. This is advanced by Boogie Delle Productions.
Out of this magic was like, come on, man, they
got upset, but you know, but that gave them that

(01:10:08):
fuel right there. But I'm saying, where's that real right now?
Which one my drum? Real?

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
I got that all day? If I don't I walk
around with that. If I didn't known you want.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
That, I would I would have brought that we wanted.
I got that out, to be honest. I want to
bake it right now. See what sounds is on that bitch?
That's dad ass. I would love this because that that
that kick in, that snin. You gotta know that in
peace the president the way it sounds like that. And
I know if anybody ever uses any sample from that real,
because you know how certain popcorn on your samples that

(01:10:44):
you know at a certain spot. I didn't play my
peach so much back in the day that by the
time I sampled, it was that much static on it.
And I had that static on top billing. I had
that static on everybody's president. I had that static on
fucking funky cole Medina. You get what I'm saying. There's
too many records. I had hit that static where you
can't tell me you didn't sample my ship. See, I

(01:11:07):
was under the impression that. See I'm so glad we're
having this conversation because in my mind I'm thinking that
this is where Paul c And said, g of Ultra
Manetic come into play. Oh, said found the real So
let's move on. Really, yes, so that explains all right?

(01:11:29):
Over because he tapped out the beat for the bridges
over said G Yes, that explains everything. Also, of course
you gotta tell him what song is it?

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
What's this is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
One of the like this beat you brought, Yes, one
of these skill so.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
You got its next in there?

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
You hear it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
I'm telling you I lost my reel.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
They went crazy, but that's okay to you, though it
was it was all good because.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
I found it. I found it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
To be honest, I'm glad they made those records because
those records right there helped motivate hip hop. Now they
following what the fuck I'm doing? You get what I'm saying.
So I had you all in my grips because you
have my reel making all these beads. Now, this is
really starting to make sense to me because I thought
you produced our hometown hero steady beat No Doubt before

(01:12:33):
I let go. This was like a big yes song
in Philadelphia. Yeah your drums, Yeah, of course. I think
Lawrence was mad at me and took my drums and
made a record. So it's just like, are people making
copies of this reel?

Speaker 6 (01:12:52):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Once? Once I put it on the bridge, yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
It was open.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
It was open, was the beginning of the bridge. It
was open, so you could your peoples grabbing it from there.
Eric B's president, you know, Milk said he y'all, I
didn't use your bridge. I'll us president Due. It's the
same real bro, if you got it from there, it's
the same drum sound. Buddy, what was the story with

(01:13:17):
beat Bider Now? So llll releases? This is really way
to beat well? No, Well, I thought it was over
Rock the Bells because right now the thing is originally
Rick Rubin told me there's a version of Rock the
Bells where he's doing it over uh the Peter Piper
Brick take me to the Martin gro My Bob James

(01:13:41):
and then run barked on him like, no, we got
some ship like that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
You can't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
And so then Rick and l I'll go back and
do it over the trouble Front break and then did
another version of which mc shan claims that you know
this is so what's really weird is that at least
four records for like early records of yours are confrontational

(01:14:07):
records of some sort between Rocks and between my early
records was kind of like frustration records, kind of like
matter of fact, if there was meant to be records,
I did start going at people because all right, we
made the Rock Sande record, it did what it did.
I made the Dimples record, it did what it did.
I'm like, oh, ship, I can make these type of
records like a go at motherfuckers. So I never knew

(01:14:30):
about this beef with LLLL or at least like I mean,
it didn't really escalate, but I mean, did LLLL even
realize that it was? It was diverted by Was it
a New York thing? No, no, it was it was
diverted by b DP.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Once that came in, Yeah, it was like yeah, yeah,
have you heard be By? Yeah? Did you hear you
heard the remix of Rock the Bells. Yeah, the original,
the other version the other boom yeah, that one. So
it was just so this came out first, or that
the real Rock the Bells came out first and the

(01:15:04):
remix came later. And when we heard the remix was like, yo,
hold up, that's the fuck that is Mally Scratchby. It
was boom boom, bab boom bat boom back boom boom,
boom ba ba boom. We was like, and he's and
then he's talking about rocking the Bells over the same beat.
He was like, hold up, that's the same same pattern.
I think you were the first person to really introduced

(01:15:25):
the idea of a dub or an instrumental, because I
think before hip hop hip hop twelve inches didn't have
the instrumental on it, right. I remember one like maybe
sugar Hill Birthday Rhymes, they had a instrumental on the back.
But you would always do something where it's what we
now call the TV version. So when when you when

(01:15:48):
you're mixing the studio, the TV version is it's it's
an instrumental and it's an occasional background vocal guide. So
the MC knows where they are in the song, right,
So like if I'm doing the Freshman to Belly, it'd
be like, now this is yeah, yes, yes, upside that

(01:16:10):
right right? Like what made you? I believe you like
one of the first to do a dub or whatever,
like was it for the purpose of doing it live
or no? You know I used to do that because
you noticed a lot of my records from back then.
I never gave instrumentals up to this day. See to
this day, I found some instrumentals from like key Gats,

(01:16:31):
like how'd you get that?

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
I never gave instrumentals up because I didn't want nobody
rhyming over my beat other than the artists. I didn't
want nobody coming out with mixed tapes. I don't want
nobody coming out with stuff. Yeah. I didn't want all that.
So I was like I wanted to when I put
this record out, only they gonna rhyme. You're only gonna
hear them rhyming over it. I never even gave you

(01:16:54):
a space to rhyme on those dubs. I would always
put the vocals up, put fuck you up a little.
You're not gonna get clean sixteen, no clean eight because
you're not gonna be rhyming over my beats.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
I had to give up something.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
I wasn't giving up that instrumental so let me And
plus I was, you know, I used to love Jamaican
dub music back in the day. I grew up of
a lot of that, you know, so I used to
always hear my Jamaican doesn't I always figure to myself
why hip hop don't have dub versions, you know, you know,
kind of like when I was in Unique learning the equipment.
I was learning the echoes, the quarter echoes, the so

(01:17:27):
and sos. So I was like, always like, damn, it
would be hot to have, you know, to give it
that reggae flavor whatever, like certain certain words and you know.
And plus you know in disco they was, you know,
doing that a little bit too, So you know, I
was like hearing some like garage versions of stuff they
would have, like the echos, I was like, damn, they
need to ad in hip hop too. So that's another

(01:17:49):
reason why I went with it with the Bridge. I
guess that probably the most notable all even you chopping
up and peached the President. I always noticed that I
would say that that record, if anything starts what I

(01:18:11):
feel will be the accessory noise period of hip hop gotcha, which, uh,
I guess you took Magic disco machines scratching. Yeah, I
flipped it backwards. That backwards sound wasn't a mistake. That
was I want to use scratching because I already you know,
I was into my break beats. I already knew I
liked scratching.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
When I used it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Forward with the beat, it didn't make sense really, you
know when it was because it was like, it wouldn't
have made sense because them I flipped it backwards and
played it backwards and triggered it and ran it with
I ran it up against the kick because it's triggered
off the kick. It created something special. So I was like, Wow,

(01:18:55):
this is real special. I never heard nothing like this
on a record ever before. I'm turn this bitch up.
So what are he's talking about is there's there's a
break by the magic disco machine called scratching, which normally
I mean it's a hip hop staple and most hip
hop DJs will it's called a stab if there is

(01:19:18):
if there's a horn part in the record with a
good kick under it, that's your exclamation point. If you're
a DJ. So when you when you're MC's rhyming over
a beat and you want to that's your important that's
your fist through the door. So what Marley basically did
was reversed it to create the bridge, which is h

(01:19:48):
and a little bit of echo to reverse an echo.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
So what is on your mind at this point?

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Because this is extremely unorthodox, right, that's that's pre public enemy.
I know, you the verse that public What is on
your mind when you're doing this? I mean that must
have been you know, I mean when I made that
and and the funny thing about making that record that
wasn't even supposed to be a record that was interlude

(01:20:20):
music for Queensbridge Day? Wait what that song was interlude
music for Queensbridge Day. So because there was you know,
there's so many bands in Queensbridge. Like I mentioned, there
was many bands. So they used to have Queensbridge Day
and the band used to perform. It wasn't even hip
hop yet, So what bands are performing at Queensbridge? Like

(01:20:40):
I said, Fred Fowl and all the residents used to
come out because it was band heavy. Dale Payne used
to have his artists out there. Andre Booth used to
get busy. He used to have his artists, you know, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
They had Cinnamon used to come out there with dal
Payne thanks to you. So they was a lot, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
So we was just I said, yo, Shan, let's make
a song for intermission, music for tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Wait.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Yeah, that wasn't supposed to be a record. I told
you a lot of my stuff wasn't supposed to be records.
I didn't get into this some of the great hip
hop stories. It's just like, let me throw something together
right right right, change someone's life real quick. Sometimes you
don't try, You just do what in your heart and
it just happens. I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying
to become what what happened to this day. I was

(01:21:34):
just I just wanted something hot for me to battle
it on the radio and just come with some heat
every week. I had to. I had to come with
heat because you know, everybody was going against us. I
had to create my own crew, my own ammunition.

Speaker 3 (01:21:49):
And it worked.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
So when the final products done, like, what are people
looking at? Because we didn't know I'm going to ask
a teenager. And I was very much aware of the
song when it came out when I was fifteen, we
were just like I thought, I was like, is that
a fire truck?

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Like, what the hell is that noise?

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
Like we could not, for the life of us figure
out what it was or what you all were trying
to convey, right, But it's just I just I was
conveying mass hysteria, madness because when you know, I already
knew that in piece to President kicking sneer was already
head bopping material. And if you put some some fire
behind it, which that noise was, I just figured that

(01:22:27):
it's it's like a it's like an undeniable And we
played this song about about four times that time in
the park. Everybody was loving it. And you know, unfortunately
somebody got killed that night at a peace rally. Oh
the first day we played that in the park. Later
on somebody got killed, damn. So it was it's kind
of weird. The Queensbridge I know of where mob deepest

(01:22:52):
rhyming about like yo, I might not make it tomorrow.
Where does that come into play? Is this eighty seven
to eighty is I mean Cracker Queen's Bridge. I think
by the time that really started happening, the crack ever
started really getting higher and higher. I think that's probably
at the point when I moved out the hood, because

(01:23:12):
it was getting out of control. Really, I mean it
was like night of the Living base heads on the
block type, you know, people walking through the lights is
out on the block, and it turned into a different
place at night, you know, And I was like, you know,
that's when I decided to move to a story like
how did you and mc shan hook up? One day
I met Shann. I was in the river park. I
believe I was probably writing rhymes. I was probably sitting

(01:23:37):
in the park writing rhymes and I saw him riding
his mini bike, and you know, he told me that
he could rap, and I was like, Oh, that's what's up.
That's cool. He told me, I gotta rhyme about you.
I gotta rap about you. I'm like, all right, cool,
he said. I said, well, just you know, bring about
my house. One day, about a week later, he came
by my house with it written on a bag and

(01:24:00):
it was mall, he'scratched the full Master us when he's
the dad that's on a right that was actually on
the air records. So I mean of your arsenal, I mean,
where does Shan rink. As far as the mcs that
you've worked with, Shan he he ranks, he got, he
got his number one status and a few things with me.
He has a certain tone. His voice is like an instrument,

(01:24:23):
you know what I'm saying. Certain people they could rhyme
and talk and singers too. Some people could sing, but
some people's voices are an instrument. And his voice is
an instrument. Like the tone of it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
Yeah, it's like an instrument.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
It's like a horn. It's like it's like a it's
like an instrument. So I give him that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
He's really though.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
And his rhymes, you know, you gotta think he made
Jane back in the.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Day, Jane.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
My mom loved that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
my mom actually loves Jane. Stops Jane and my dad
see it is positive. They're talking about not doing cracks.
And he had the song about Cocaine. It was that
love story, right, how he fell in love with this
girl and at the end of the story it was
her name was Cocaine. Oh, so you know he was

(01:25:09):
kind of visualizing those those little rhymes kind of like we.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Were you doing live shows with him as well?

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
Yeah, I was. I was just DJ for me. So
what was his what was his what was the crowd responsible?
Like he had him he was he was he was
like he was getting the ladies. He had like left
me lonely out too. So yeah, he had his run.
He had just definitely had a hard run with the chicks.
Chicks Chicks used to like she before I bring.

Speaker 3 (01:25:29):
Up Kane which More eighty eight, I gotta.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
Know about your your your your your brief time with
with with Rock Kemp, which mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
I've seen a few shan things.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
Where he's like why did it whatever? Like what is
what is the story of Eric Breeze President and well
Eric b eric Bee was like a roommate to me
and Queens. But he used to come, you know, come
stay at the crib. He's from Queens, you know, he's
actually from Corona. Queen's all East Elmhurst, one of them.

(01:26:05):
But it's the same, you know, same kind of thing.
But he used to hang out with him. Pol Or
Pole introduced me to him, and you know he started
hanging out with me then you know, starting not going home,
really hanging out showing at the crib. You know, he
used to see a lot of people come through then
you know when he's like, yo, I got a rap up.
You know, I want to bring a wrap up, you know,
and he, you know, the first day, he said somebody

(01:26:26):
was gonna come. I believe it was Freddie Fox. He
didn't show up, so he could have been Freddie Fox.

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
Wait, Freddy Fox should have been over that beat.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
Whoever would have showed up probably would have got it
because we you know, we just had you know, he
was just ready for a session, So who knows what
we would have made, you get what I'm saying. So
obviously he didn't show up, so he said, I got
somebody coming to the next day, which was Ra.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
So Ro came and we made my melody first. Now
you had to think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
I was just just getting in the studio with Caine,
just you know, Kin was just writing for biz, so
I was I was kind of like secretly making Kine
album on the low, okay, because the record company act
like he wasn't an artist, and I already knew it
that he that he was dope, so I would just
record him when when when bears would be late kind
of thing, right, So he's getting an album together, So

(01:27:14):
I'm working with Kine now rock Kim Kane and now
rock Kim wanted to do my melody. Now now I
was already rhyming, you know, fucking with g rapping Kine. Well,
they was like one yeah, right right now he wanted.
Now he came with my melody, which was like it
was like so different at my house from what we
was doing. It was mad slow. It was like it

(01:27:37):
was a head bober. It was dope, but it was
like a head bobber. Listen to record, and you know
before he had came, you know, just the sessions before
was like all energetic. So I was like, yo, sham man,
recording man, real quick, wow, record the vocals, man, i'mna
go over here real I'm running, you know, back and
go program something else, go tap out something else.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
Just record his vocals. I wan't see all come out.
You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
Shan was a He would hang around the studio and
learn and see what we was doing and learn learn
how you know, learn Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (01:28:08):
This is how you do the vocals.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
Oh this is how you do this. So he was
he was learning. He was he was an artist, but
he was more of apprentice learner. He wanted to learn
how to make make the music too. So I was like,
I was set it up. I set it up when
he went over there and went to the board and
punched it up, and okay, all right, I'm going to
equ you and EQ and no. I just left it
ready for him, and yo, just record him. I'll be

(01:28:31):
right back. You get what I'm saying. I taught him
out of punching, you know, I was teaching shann how
to do all. So I was like, all right, let
me see if you nice record him. I'll be right back.
So I went in the other room probably tapped out
another beat while he was doing the vocals to My melody.
By the time I came back out, I was like
came out and like I was like, damn, I like this,

(01:28:52):
but it doesn't have the energy of what I've been
doing where I'm at.

Speaker 3 (01:28:57):
You know what I'm saying. It was it was dope,
but it was like.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
When everything else I was doing with that, it was
like out here, my melody was the perfect song to
do the wa right right, right, right right, because like
that came out right, I just remember, right, this is
my melody by rock him Eric being rock him.

Speaker 3 (01:29:18):
It's slow, It's like what eighty. What's the yeah for
the year.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
It went with the year the base check out my
melody hands out of.

Speaker 3 (01:29:44):
A beat of yours.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
That beat right there was probably just on the spot makeup.
And then I believe that Eric Be probably liked that.
Doom Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom doom the baseline, but when
you hear it changed. Since I only had a Casiot
Season one O one and I was able to just

(01:30:11):
have one MIDI program running, I was just changing the
sound with the MIDI still playing, so it's going.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
Doom doom, doom, and then the bell.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Then you had the other sounds. I'm just changing the
patches playing the keyboards. That was me. That was me, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I start. Yeah, I started playing keyboards back then. But
then I got bored with it and I kind of stopped.
I don't know why I ever stopped, but after you know,
around everybody's president. I played those base that baseline and
that one, so I was learning a little about the keyboards,

(01:30:43):
but for some reason I stopped. I don't know, I
just stopped. But in your mind, you're not thinking like
this this is a new revolution right here. No, I
just thinking that we finished the session and I'm gonna
move on to the next one because I got beats
to make. So how long before Eric Be's President gets me? Well,

(01:31:05):
we made that, and I gave him a copy of
what we did in the studio that day. And the
next week I heard all over the radio, Wait.

Speaker 3 (01:31:16):
What's the time between my melody and Eric Beings President?

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
How many days? It was? About the following week I
heard on the radio, Well I heard, I heard, I
started hearing it on the radio. And still then you
didn't think like, no, I knew, I knew, I knew,
I knew. I believe me. When I made Erb's President
Duke's I already knew that that was gonna be this,
that was gonna be it, because that was more of
where I was at. You notice, I was at make

(01:31:41):
the music with your mouth, beiz the bridge and all
of that. And even then I think ninety seven btpms
was a little slow for you, because by that point
all your choices were like but one twelve like super fast.
I know, but the you make the music and then
nobody beat the biz was over there. You give what
I'm saying. Those was real good hits for me. So
I was like, yo, I want to be over there.

(01:32:02):
That's why I was trying to go, and that's why
I want to bring Raw. I want to bring him there.
I want to bring him right right right to where
I was at with super fast and not not too fast,
but you know where people can understand you and and dance.

Speaker 3 (01:32:16):
You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
I will say that because by this point, I'll say
that between you and the Bomb Squad, both of you
guys pretty much revolutionizing and leading the pack of the
new wave of hip hop, which is like just this
sonic assault matching the time period I was like your

(01:32:42):
your version of the the panic sound was definitely more
I mean, it was more danceable and dance like. You
could still play Raw to this day. You can still
play Poison to this day, whereas I mean, you know,
just the the engineering of some of the stuff on

(01:33:02):
Nation of Millions is so dense that it doesn't doesn't
cut through, Like how many, how many? How long is
it taking you to mix the stuff? And no, you
know a lot of that stuff was made in mastering.
I had very good guys master and I her powers.
I'm coughing bats back in the day I heard I
had her powers dude, so I would come. He would

(01:33:24):
hate yo. Let me tell you, he would hate to
see me coming bro right, because you know I'm coming
with some ship from the living room. Oh here come Mollie.
I gotta fix this ship. But by the time I left,
mastering them fucking yo them ships was like coom colmom.
He really fixed a lot of my song. My song
was made on on four tracks in the crib without

(01:33:46):
dB X. Are you mcs using pop stoppers? Just straight
up like what type of mic? I had a sure
mic without the without the bubble, without Wow. That's why, Mike,
That's why my melody sounds so screechy in his voice.
Roxanne sound so screechy some sham records and king because

(01:34:07):
I had a fucked up Mike Tarik refuses. Tarik will
do eight of his vocals on like a sure fifty eight. Yeah,
hoping to get that. That just rhyming with the distortion. Yeah,
you gotta take the top off that ball. There was
there was rhyming with the ball off. I didn't even
have a ball. Were so broke?

Speaker 3 (01:34:33):
Do you still have that? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
I do. I still got that, Mike. I can still
got that. If you if i'd have known he was
going to talk about that A brought out.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
That's more. I always be bringing it with me.

Speaker 6 (01:34:43):
Have one got to they got any of your stuff
in the new Smithsonian and DC, I feel like maybe
they need to.

Speaker 3 (01:34:49):
Yeah, maybe after this it could happen.

Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
Oh, it's trust me. Actually, I think shout out to
Timothy at the Smithsonian. I think she's a Yeah, I'm
meet with her. Give her more artifacts there. That's a
cool thing about the Smithsonian For a pack rack like me.
I could just give her the stuff and she is
the hip hop Yeah, absolutely make the connection. How does

(01:35:19):
Caine enter the well the picture? Let me let me
finish with the Eric Bees President because the beat from
Eric B's President came from a song that I made
called Stun of the Block by Tragedy. I'm gonna send
you it. We're gonna put it on this but it
came from a song called Stun of the Block and
you know the funky cuts because DJ hot Day used

(01:35:43):
to be Tragedy's DJ. So I made a song called
Stun of the Block right after super Kids.

Speaker 3 (01:35:49):
The Tragedy Won't Happen to Me.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Made that and then the follow up song was a
song called Stun of the Block. Now Stun of the
Block had Eric Be's President kicks in there at the pattern.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
All of that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
But when I did everybody's president since I couldn't make
Stun of the Block a record because they couldn't they
was too young to talk about stunts stunts on the block.
How old was Strategedy? He probably was about probably about
twelve when he made Stunt of the Block of twelve
or thirteen, very very young. He's like, wait, speaking of which,
I don't want I don't want to miss it. Craig

(01:36:28):
g Yeah, did you produce Veronica like all the stuff that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
He did for pop Art?

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Right, A lot of stuff he did for pop Art?
I did produce a lot of it in the earlier stuff. Yeah,
oh god, okay, okay, yeah. So so what basically happened.
I took the drums from Stunt of the Block to
turn everything down, just kept the drums, then put over
like a fat rat baseline over it. So I already
had that drum pattern already for another record. I sent

(01:36:58):
I'm gonna send you all that for this so wow,
and then and then you could hear it. You can
hear it. It's the same drums, same everything, but it's
different music. But I couldn't. I had to erase all
of that ship. I don't even have Stunning the Block more.
But I got the mixes, but I had to erase
everything on the master you need to make a dub
I got. I got the copies, mixes and instrumental and
all that, but I don't have the master because the

(01:37:21):
beat was so hot.

Speaker 3 (01:37:21):
It's Verbody's president.

Speaker 1 (01:37:22):
If I didn't erase what was there, you wouldn't have
the foundation of Eric Being's president.

Speaker 3 (01:37:27):
Okay, I guess that's so sorthy second.

Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
In my mind at the funeral for Stunning the Block,
like you never made it right, right right? I got
the mixes though, I got you know, all types of
mixes from it, but I don't have the actual multi track.
But I got so by this point, is the SB
twelve now your instrument of choice?

Speaker 6 (01:37:48):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
You're still no. Let this be a note that that
all the great hip hop producers still hold.

Speaker 3 (01:37:58):
True their their weapon of choice. Yeah, I mean I
still have a few of them.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
So you say Ninth is still using fruity.

Speaker 3 (01:38:05):
Loops, he I think he is.

Speaker 1 (01:38:09):
I mean, at one point in time he was heavy
on on machine, right, So I think he's using machine now,
but I want to say back in like twenty it's
like maybe twenty twelve thirteen, he sent me like a
whole batch. She was like, yo, new fruity joints, all
fruity loop beats.

Speaker 3 (01:38:26):
He went back to it. So yeah, he's still He's
still on it. And you know what me, I moved
I moved on.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
I mean, I could still use the old stuff, but
I have my twelve hundreds, but I do use my
my renaissance and going to the twelve hundred mold because
it feels kind of like a twelve hundred, does it though?
I mean the sound, not the feel. The sound a
little ashy okay renaissance, but it doesn't it didn't do
it like this doesn't feel the same. I still, I mean,

(01:38:53):
I've learned on machine, but I'm still like I'm still
grabbing the my weapon of choices in the two thousand.
I do have a twelve hundred.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
Big o DC.

Speaker 1 (01:39:01):
You got the two thousand. I use logic in reasons
right now, I'm a logic guy or reasons. So you're
not afraid of technology, No, I move with it. I'm
not getting left behind at all because if I would
have been the person to get left behind, I probably
would have been sampling. You get what I'm saying. I
probably would have never sampled that first thing and used
it for what it was at that point. I'm always

(01:39:22):
the one to grab technology and and use it for
what I need it for. You're going to make it
for what you're making it for, but I'm going to
use it for what I need it for. I see.
So in eighty eight, is I mean, are you overwhelmed
at this point because you're making the Going Off record,
You're making Cane's record, You're making Chante's stuff. Yeah, cool,

(01:39:44):
g raps about the end of the photo and how
and how long would you spending on these records? Just
real quick, like how long would it take to make
Going Off? We're making a record? Like we're making two
records a day type type thing. Was like it was
like an assembly line. We're making two records a day.
Who's next, what's tomorrow? Sessions after session? Every day is
a session? Is it still in your kitchen?

Speaker 3 (01:40:05):
This way?

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
After I moved to a story, it became like an
assembly line. That's when I met Kan. So talk about King.
Now King comes to my door business. Late one day
he comes to my door. Yeah I'm thinking. I'm thinking
he's trying to stick me up because now I lived
in the story.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
Finally, I was like, what do you want to get paranoid?
You know? Now I go downstairs. It's a dude.

Speaker 1 (01:40:30):
Some dogs can do it at the door, Like, yo,
I don't even know this dude. I don't know why
I even buzzed him in my building. He got to
the door. I'm like, there, I don't even know this dude.
I left buzz him in the building at the door,
I'm like, yo, ship, he's like upstairs, so it's only
one of him. It's only me and him. So I'm like, yo,
it's not two of them. So it's just gonna have
to be me and dukes. You get what I'm saying.
So so anyway, like you know, I opened my door

(01:40:57):
like I have a little halfway and ships jo what up? Like, yo,
I'm here to meet Bizz. Oh yeah, I'm like, so
I write business rhymes. I say, oh you do, so
tell me a rhyme that you wrote for biz And
he said some ship that never came out yet. Okay.
I was like, oh, this is nik official because how

(01:41:18):
are you gonna know that? I was like, all right,
come in. So I let him in the ship and
we're sitting there. We're sitting there talking and ship. We're
sitting there. You know, he's telling me that, you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:28):
Know, rhyme a little.

Speaker 1 (01:41:30):
You know, I never heard myself on the on the
mic on the on the so and so you know,
I'm like, oh whatever. So you know, we're sitting there.
Biz kind of late, so you know, I said, fuck,
let me throwing, throwing, fucking I'll take you there beat
you had it made already. Yeah, matter of fact, he said,
let's run. I like to rhyme off. I take you that.

(01:41:51):
So I chopped it up real quick and put it there.
Then then the ship had Big Dady, you know that ship.
And I caught that and started like, He's like, oh,
so that's gonna be kind of bond that I made that.
He rhymed off that, and that was kind of like
his first little demo before BIZ got there, did or
was he? He wass already big Daddy, But when he

(01:42:11):
rhymed ing that, I knew. I was like, Yo, this
nigga is way different from everybody I'm fucking with here.
This Nigga is the ship.

Speaker 3 (01:42:19):
This niggas he's the real ship.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
Because the diction was righty at the voice, and I
was like, Yo, Nigga kind of dice and and I
went back to the record coming Yo Biz right is
the ship?

Speaker 3 (01:42:30):
Yo Biz writing new artists.

Speaker 1 (01:42:33):
They told me so well, and so on the low,
I would just record, you know, I would just record
more with him every time he would come.

Speaker 3 (01:42:41):
I'm recording a little more with him, get more, ammo.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
And then after a while I was like, yo, we
had his album done, ship, but I kind of I
kind of did his his earlier recordings around bisbeeing late
son's lateness to Thank's career. Well, you know, especially the

(01:43:06):
first record, because that's how we first bonded off, the
first you know, the first little thing and at that
time in hip hop, because you know, you just say
so freely, like, well, Kane was business writer. Was there
any kind of stigma in terms of being a m
C that had a writer? You know that The funny
thing nobody with Biz, I mean nobody never won at

(01:43:29):
him for they probably didn't even know that he didn't
write the Vapors first, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:43:33):
They didn't know Caine wrote the Vapors for him.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
You know, Biz rhymes when he wrote a rhyme, it
was like a fun, happy rhyme, but any rhyme that
made a lot of sense. He wrote the toilet.

Speaker 2 (01:43:49):
Most likely.

Speaker 4 (01:43:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
Has Biz always spelled his name in every rhyme he's
ever spent to be that that was the selling point too.
He understood marketing very early. I feel you're there in
the last hour of this very special court Lovel Supreme
interview with the legendary Marley Maaul who just told us
about working with some of the best c's of the

(01:44:17):
eighties and not even dating it. I think of all
time period of all time, Yes, definitely of all time.
So Kin and g Rap in the same crew because
that version of Raw that I heard where they just
why didn't that come come?

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:44:35):
Yeah, like, well why did I even make the B
side of the real version? Your man g Rat rhymed
all the way to the end. He killed it, you know,
he was like g Rap, I mean it was that
was a real battle. That was it was really going
on that that was like really because at that point

(01:44:59):
Kane was getting so famous in the crew and g
Rap been here already, so he was like trying to
hold He was around before k Right, he was around
before Kaneka. Yeah, he was around before Kane. So you know,
the the new cat against the the you know, the
the street rapper, you give what I'm saying. G rap
was always that the hard rapper with with with Polo.

(01:45:23):
Now they get to clash on the record going off
on a crazy beat. Oh man, that ship was crazy
when they killed that raw ship. So even then, did
you feel like there's some historical shit? Yeah? I knew
right there because it was like the it was my
Titans right there going at it. It was clash of
the Titans. It was clash of the Titans for us. Yeah,

(01:45:45):
it was crazy. So this leads to.

Speaker 3 (01:45:49):
The story.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
Well I have two stories of the symphony, Okay, One
Why was Shan not on the symphony? Mm hmm too
why was Kane obviously not.

Speaker 3 (01:46:06):
My first person?

Speaker 1 (01:46:11):
Well, basically, you know we made that record when we
left the photo shoot on the back when we all
standing and from this plane was that we rented that
It was a prop.

Speaker 3 (01:46:22):
There was a prop. Everything was a problem.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
You started many unreachable, right of course. I just thought like,
oh that's what we gotta do.

Speaker 3 (01:46:31):
We gotta make it. One day when we yeah, no doubt,
you know, I was I was told that. The first
Instagram front of.

Speaker 1 (01:46:42):
He's like, yo, you know, he was like, yeah, we
get in front of a plane. We looked like we're
doing it. We looked like we, you know, we're really
doing it. So we got in front of that. You know,
we got in front of that plane and people thought
we was really doing it. And yes, we thought you
were doing it. And then guess what happened? Then we
started really doing it. It's like sometime you you know,
you speaking into existence like that, and we kind of did.

(01:47:03):
And next thing, you know, I mean, that wasn't my
first time being there private joint. I was already experienced
the experience in the Chante Area era, you know what
I mean. So, but we stood in front of those
and looked like we just came from off tour. It
looked like we're so busy. And wow, after that, after that,
those pictures came out and everybody saw that we really

(01:47:23):
started getting that busy. They came right in. Well that
that inspired and and for shar not being on the record,
he you know, he just he didn't, you know, he
didn't show up. He's supposed to come, he said, I'll
meet you o there and he just didn't come. And
you know, I put does he regret it? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:47:42):
You may have to ask him when you get him here.

Speaker 7 (01:47:46):
You not.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
Once it was just like damn, I wanted to be
on that, Like I would have been salty.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
You know, but that was a big record because look
what would have did for imagine if that was in
dudes arsenal, it could have been you know, maybe a
little different situation, a different turnout. It could have been
a little different. I mean not to say anything you
know bad would do, but you know he could have
had that in his arson or like yo' chefing what
you know what I'm saying. And that means a lot

(01:48:11):
because master it's considered the greatest, one of the greatest
pos there you go, so that that's that the first
I mean, he had the crash crew and all those guys,
but this is like a posse of guys that wasn't
a crew, right, there's a posse of guys that you know,
we we and juice crew, but we could hold our own.
Anybody could hold their own kind of I can make

(01:48:33):
my own record and still stand. But you know, master
ast very well from being the first person on that record,
you know, And I put him there as a filler,
trying to put him there just in case he wasn't
even supposed to really stay there. Get you get what
you're holding out for.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
For whoever was supposed to show you mind? Who did
you think was gonna was it raw?

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
Like do you think rock Ken would have held his
own on the on this video that that was too
slow for him? He would have been dope because he
rock He rock be his president, so he would have
killed that symphony. I think, to be honest, I would
have always liked to hear I think Chante. If Chante
was on a symphony, Boddy we she you know, I

(01:49:29):
always I wanted her to be on it. But I
had a record with her already on my album, so
I you know, I had a record bracket. Yeah, what
was up with the war between or the back of
I mean they didn't necessarily respond, but like what was
her feeling at that time? Was it like all these
females are blowing up with these pop hits, and you

(01:49:51):
know when it's my turn? Because by that point, Salt
and Pepper was kicking in. I know that whack it
was probably aimed at even them or JJ fat whatever,
but even I guess she even addressed it on H
Bad Sister, the first cut on the solo record that

(01:50:13):
she did. I believe she was her feeling at that time,
was it like when's it going to be my turn?
Or she just wasn't a fan of of you know,
because she was kind of hardcore rap and going at
people in the crowd, and you know, she just wasn't
with that pop thing yet. I mean it's before pop
was proven, you know what I mean. Okay, so you
know she probably didn't appreciate being you know, rapping and

(01:50:36):
going hard and then they come in with it sounded
like a son and they didn't even try to make
and it went really well.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
It's like.

Speaker 1 (01:50:43):
It just got lucky, you know, not lucky, but you
know it just went well. Sometimes you don't put effort
into something. You just rock out and say what you
feel and put it in the atmosphere and it could
work out. But there's some people that go in the
studio and bus day ass and it don't become anything.
So you know, maybe she just felt that yo, I'm
putting in work and all they gotta do is that
and pop and that. You know, but certain things are

(01:51:05):
for certain people, you know what I mean. One thing
about Kane though, uh, I noticed that he was sort
of the neutral member of the Jews crew, whereas even
Chris would shot him out on BDP records. But I mean,

(01:51:28):
what was his position on being a Jewe crew member?

Speaker 3 (01:51:30):
Like, was it like, yo, why are you cool?

Speaker 6 (01:51:35):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:51:36):
Was it?

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
To be honest, they always had a special friendship. Okay,
Karas one and and and and Kane. I believe that
Karas One and Miss Melody moved Kine out of his
place in Brooklyn when he first got his condo for
his first album, you ge know what I'm saying. So
they always had a special a friendship way before friendship. Okay,

(01:52:00):
So so was that weird or awkward like I'm in
the Juice Crew now? Well, I guess that's something they
had to deal with. I mean, because Keros didn't mention
him on any records. Right, And by this point is
mister Magic even a factor in eighty seven eighty eight
at that point, mister Magic, I would say by the

(01:52:24):
eighty by the early nineties, he probably he wasn't much
of a factor with everybody. Anybody was their own person.
Then I wasn't on the radio with him anymore. I
was doing starting to do in Control because I had
an in Control album out. Put it out in what
eighty nine?

Speaker 7 (01:52:42):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:52:43):
Eighty eighty eight, I got the budget in eighty seven,
bought a house. You get what I'm saying. So at
any point during this period, is this a no pun
intended a water under the bridge moment? Like have you
ever not run into BDP in those years and been
like all right, let's talk.

Speaker 3 (01:53:03):
And you know what the funny thing? I took it serious.

Speaker 1 (01:53:05):
I wasn't fucking with them dudes. Okay, you ain't see
me on no commercials, no Sprike commercials. I was not
fucking with them, bro, really.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
Because everybody they were trying to take your livelihood.

Speaker 1 (01:53:16):
Right, I'm like, dude, you know I ain't improved how
y'all came so fuck y'all. So I never did nothing
with them. Nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:53:24):
I mean, I wanted to be in a Spike commercial.
So even when the shan did the Spike commercial wanted
me in there, I said, no, I ain't fucking with it.

Speaker 1 (01:53:32):
I'm not fucking with y'all. They may used to be
though they could do all that, but you didn't see
my face in there. You ain't seen me, fucking So
took a long time for y'all to finally have that conversation.
And yeah, we finally, you know, because I never I
never really understood why he was mad at us. I'm like, dude,
I'm always thought in my mind, why why why why
he was mad at us? Dude? We the motherfucking Juice Coupe.

(01:53:53):
We out here saving hip hop. Yeah, we are here
saving hip hop, dude, and you got something to say.
So I never understood why he was mad until one
day I read his bio and in his bio he
said it all happened with a chance meeting with mister Magic,
and he described what happened, and I remembered that day.

Speaker 3 (01:54:13):
I said, oh, that was those motherfuckers.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
Then it all came to me, Oh, they was mad
because that's the niggas, that magic shit. He dissed them
and slammed the door and left me in there with
them out. So on your mind when you're hearing the
bridges over, it's coming from someone totally random that had nothing.

Speaker 5 (01:54:31):
To do with right.

Speaker 1 (01:54:32):
I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:54:33):
I didn't understand where it was coming from.

Speaker 1 (01:54:35):
And and I guess what. And I didn't even explore why.
I didn't give a fuck, so I just like, yeah,
fuck it, let me just walk away for a minute.
I never really realized until I read his bio in
the nineties. I was like hot in ninety seven and
Tracy's office Tracy Chlordy's office. One day and I was
going through bios. I saw PDPs off bdp's bio. I
was like, oh, this looks interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:54:55):
See what they say about the Let me read this right,
and I'm going through it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:59):
It all happened one day mister Magic got power Play
Studio and he dissed us. I said, this ship never happened.
Then I said, oh, motherfuckers. And this was like this
had to be ten years later, y'ah.

Speaker 6 (01:55:13):
Wow, So how long did it take then for you
to when you see him again at some point? Now
that yeah, after I found out after.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
One day, it was like, yo, meet the way me
and Chris met each other. I don't know where it
was at wasn't it was in a revolving door in
the building. Dudes, I swear to god, dukes. I was
on one side of revolving though he was on the other.
I looked at him, he looked at that. That was
the first time we ever met each other.

Speaker 6 (01:55:40):
Kid.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
So I came outside and I said, Yo, what up.
He's like, YO, what up? And then we started talking.
I said yo.

Speaker 3 (01:55:47):
I was like, Yo, that was y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:55:48):
That power play y'all said y'all. I never knew why
y'all had beef, he said, yo.

Speaker 3 (01:55:54):
Then he started explaining it and I was like why.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
I was like, Yo, that was y'all.

Speaker 3 (01:55:58):
I was like, Yo, that's that's it was crazy. It
just fucked my head up.

Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
The bridges over was the original stand yep.

Speaker 3 (01:56:07):
Great analogy.

Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
Then so after that we spoke, and then after that
we got pretty cool. And then one day he called
me and said, Yo, yots do album. I didn't really
talk to him until like it had to be like
two thousand. Damn.

Speaker 3 (01:56:30):
I wasn't fucking with them at all.

Speaker 1 (01:56:38):
I appreciate, at least as a as a fan, that
it didn't escalate further. Whereas you know, that seems to
be the ongoing narrative for anything post ninety five ninety
six hip hop, no doubt, But I mean, was it
just that that wasn't even an option?

Speaker 3 (01:56:57):
Or were you careful and where you went? Like I'm
not going I.

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
Mean, I wasn't the one to go hang out in
the Bronx at two in the morning, you know what
I'm saying with that shit going on. But but I
wasn't a fever. I was in the disco fever with
magic a lot and nothing that nothing ever happened to me.
I used to be there all the time in the Bronx,
You get what I'm saying. So did you not club
a lot? But would you go to very like do
you have Latin Quarter stories or or the rooftop or Yeah,

(01:57:25):
I would go. I would go check it out. I
would check it out. What was your spot in New
York too? I used to like Latin Quarter back in
the day. I used to like Latin Quarter was the ship?
Would you go just to testing? I would go check
it out? Union Square? I used to like Union Square.
The last show at Union Square was me and Shan
and then the place got shut down after that, never

(01:57:45):
to open again. Really turned into so you go to
Latin Quarter even though that was Red's home. Yeah, I
would go there, you know, just stop over there and
see what's going on? Because he wasn't playing at night. Okay,
you know what I'm saying. He would be like maybe
on Saturday night he would be there. Yeah. So for you,
what's the typical night at Latin Quarter like which I
would go through see the ball busters move out their way.

(01:58:09):
It was like a cruel people like that. You gotta
think about. That's the time of the when everybody was
wild and in New York, say, it's like fifty people
will walk around and just terrorize the block and you
weren't noyed at all. I would step back. I would
always step back, and you know a lot of people
would know who I am, like, Yo, what I mom?

Speaker 3 (01:58:24):
And just give me that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:25):
I never had problems like that. Never, Never in the
streets out here.

Speaker 2 (01:58:30):
Never.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
I don't be having because I don't. I don't present
that type of energy, you know what I mean. It's like,
you know, I don't got no attitude. I'm good with everybody.
I'm giving slapping people DAPs, taking my pictures. You know,
people always got loved when they see me. Most people's
producers are doing something and they you know, in mind
what I did, Yo, Yo, thank you for so and so.
Thank you for at wherever I go. I never got

(01:58:51):
to be I don't. I don't be having beef like
that because I don't, you know, it's just not like that.
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:58:56):
I don't carry that type of energy.

Speaker 1 (01:58:58):
So how would you test a record, Like if you
had an example of like a record you had that
you wanted the DJ, like, would you use those clubs
to test to see? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:59:09):
Yeah, that would.

Speaker 1 (01:59:10):
I'll see what they're playing, see what's hot, see what
they fucking with seeing you know, see what you know,
see what they're playing.

Speaker 3 (01:59:16):
What was your greatest story reaction of like this is
just gonna work?

Speaker 1 (01:59:19):
Like, oh, when I used to see that, already knew
public Ending was public Enemy was a go because anytime
Public Enemy music would play in any of those clubs
back in the day, regardless of what Magic said, they
ship was popping. But I'm in for your records. For me,
nobody beats the biz. Nobody the biz was big for me.
Something for the radio was extra big for me. Wow, yeah,

(01:59:41):
tell me about that record preps ever find out like,
what's that to me? Is one of the most that
that's that's a genius moment in sampling. Yeah for you
day Yeah. One day I was watching the movie and
I just saw it. I was like, Yo, that was dope,
and I had the v back and I just went

(02:00:02):
straight to their car with the VHS and the prince.

Speaker 3 (02:00:06):
Ever did they even get wise to it?

Speaker 1 (02:00:09):
They cleared it from me one days. Label mats. You
don't get what I said, So one day I'll leave it.
I'll leave it at that. Never mind.

Speaker 3 (02:00:25):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:00:27):
Hold up, I'm saying that they used it, and they
used it in something and cleared it back from me.
Didn't know where it came from. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (02:00:35):
This one a little bit, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:00:38):
They used something for the radio and cleared it with me.
Yeah wait I hmm, okay, I'm gonna play visit someone
with radio and I gotta figure out what he just
dropped in my lat This is benchmarky something for the radio.
Sho yo, stop playing around bringing the baby. Okay. So,

(02:01:20):
for those who don't know, like, Under the Chair Moon
is one of my favorite b C films of all time.
Boss Bill can the classic follow up The Purple Ring. Yeah,
I think it's a classic.

Speaker 3 (02:01:33):
I think it is too.

Speaker 1 (02:01:34):
It is it is, even though you know critics are
it's out of it?

Speaker 3 (02:01:38):
You don't like it? I did not like Under the
Chair moan. But well no, no, let me say this.
It is a classic the film.

Speaker 1 (02:01:50):
It's a classic.

Speaker 3 (02:01:51):
But for all the all the wrong reasons.

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
No, but it is classic.

Speaker 1 (02:01:54):
It is classic.

Speaker 3 (02:01:55):
I actually went to the movies to see that.

Speaker 1 (02:01:57):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:01:58):
I did too.

Speaker 3 (02:01:59):
I cut Church Is Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:02:01):
Yes, and coming after Proper Rain, it was just like,
what the fuck is this?

Speaker 3 (02:02:05):
He's expanding expanding, So.

Speaker 1 (02:02:10):
Are you allowed to tell the meta story of it
or no?

Speaker 3 (02:02:15):
We'll just leave it at that.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
Okay. I don't know if the remix ever came out,
but I know one day I was approached by they
team to clear that for a remix that they were doing,
and they used something for the radio that is the
most mind blowing awesome hisst story.

Speaker 9 (02:02:31):
Well, it's kind of like the J Swift remix of
Let It Go, Let It Go resamples Dorothy Parker.

Speaker 1 (02:02:38):
Yeah, but does he cleared himself?

Speaker 3 (02:02:40):
He has to clear it? I don't know, for like,
does Prince have to clear a print sample on his
own record?

Speaker 1 (02:02:45):
That's I mean, probably through that publishing if it's a
different publisher. Because I got a lot of titles and
a different different administrators for different songs. So if I
have a different administrator for something, I probably would have
to clear it with the other side.

Speaker 3 (02:03:01):
Wow, So can you measure not cleaning your own temple?

Speaker 4 (02:03:05):
Right?

Speaker 1 (02:03:05):
Getting sued by yourself? So i'msuing myself so real quick
for for raw yes to get that, to get that
naked drum break, right? Am I assuming that you went
to the UK to pick up the twelve inch of
Bobby Birds, I'm coming to get that because that wasn't

(02:03:27):
in circulation at that point. So you would like, was
this from your your your your traveling to Europe?

Speaker 3 (02:03:35):
And like, what is your digging game like?

Speaker 1 (02:03:38):
As far as at that point I was, I was
digging kind of hard because I was, you know, ahead
of everybody and trying to stay ahead of a body
when it came to these kicks and snares I want
to have, you know. But the funny thing is the
more I Doug, the more I realized that in Peace
to President was the ship I could never I couldn't
never stop. Yes, it was hard to find ship that

(02:04:00):
that top that one, and you know that made the
most hits. So you know, I would go to every country.
I would go to. Of course, I would go raide
the record stores and look for certain artists and certain things,
you know, certain situations. You know. I used to always
do that, but then after a while, you know, I would.
I'm the type of guy like this, I love them
and leave them dukes. I sample him and and and

(02:04:24):
once I put it down, I could lose the record.
Maybe I don't have it no more. I sample it,
and it could be there once I got it in
digital form, I might lose the wax or whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:04:35):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:04:36):
I'm kind of like that, once I sample it for me,
I know, you know, a lot of a lot of times,
like like those original and Peace to President records that
I sample.

Speaker 3 (02:04:45):
I don't know what those forty five is that, dude.

Speaker 1 (02:04:47):
A lot of a lot of my records, Like I
got like a place full of records that I don't
I don't keep up with. Where what is?

Speaker 3 (02:04:54):
You know, I don't know this is the section for that.
I don't really do that. I just need somebody to.

Speaker 1 (02:04:58):
Start start doing that, because there's cats like me and
maybe about fifty other cats there are now just in
the present, you know, preserving history business of you know,
I'm certain that wherever that forty five is and your
storage been or whatever like that is, I got it.

(02:05:18):
And but the bottom beat to the Symphony on drums,
that that was an Aaron Fuchs hookup too. I don't
even know what the hell at is. That's a crazy beat.
I was always trying to figure out how you had
access to all these rare forty fives that I will

(02:05:39):
be charged forty dollars, fifty dollars sixty seventy eighty ninety
dollars going to Japan to get you know, there they'll
sell you synthetic substitution forty five for like two hundred bucks.
And I'm like, you have these records. So yeah, he
gave he gave me a lot, and he gave me
substitution back in the day too, got that on forty

(02:06:02):
forty five. All right, so we got time to talk
about Uncleel Yeah, I always got Yeah, give us the story,
like how I mean, at this point, you have the
world in your hands. You you you came with rock Sand,
you came with Chan, you came with Caine, He came
with Master as he came with Kraigg.

Speaker 3 (02:06:24):
Then I left the Juice Crew.

Speaker 1 (02:06:25):
That's right, you went to Uptown for a second. That's right.
I had left the Juice Crew because how how it
was like at that point, I got tired of it.
I was like, Dukes, man, I did all this, Yo,
I made like four albums this year. I only made
two hundred thousand dollars. I was a staff producer with
Cold Chilling, and I was like, yo, I only made
I made four albums that year, and I was making

(02:06:46):
two hundred thousand dollars a year. And I'm like, Dukes,
I could make one album and get three fifty four hundred.

Speaker 3 (02:06:52):
You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:06:54):
So I was like, that was it. After I did
those four albums, I broke out.

Speaker 4 (02:06:57):
So that was what.

Speaker 1 (02:06:58):
You didn't really do none of this, I'm gonna say
you never did no one sophomore.

Speaker 3 (02:07:02):
Let me tell you what I did.

Speaker 1 (02:07:03):
To be honest with Cold Chilling, our doctor dre them,
I just walked away. I was like, y'all can have this,
y'all do this go ahead?

Speaker 3 (02:07:10):
Was a row.

Speaker 1 (02:07:14):
At that point, I mean, there wasn't. It wasn't nothing,
nothing crazy like that. It's just that I figured I
could make more money over here. So I took that
took Tragedy, Craig g and we went we went our way,
and then I was working with Heavy D. I had
hits with Heavy D that started toppling what I was
doing over there. You get what I'm saying. I made
a lot of good records at Cold Chill, and we

(02:07:35):
had a lot of good a lot of good historical
records Chilling. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you kind of built that.
But those are not my most successful records in my catalog.

Speaker 2 (02:07:47):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (02:07:48):
But from a from a sentimental standpoint, we're always going
to think, oh, raw, aproach the rich, all that stuff,
you know, But those are not the ones you know
those are those are great records, but those are out
my grossing records that I could live off of to
this day. I feel you understand. So it's a difference.
You know, I can't retire off that ship unless somebody

(02:08:09):
sample it, you know what I mean. Before before you
get into ll right, Okay, you work with Tragedy when
he was twelve, and then when he changed to Intelligent Hitler,
right that that I think that Intelligent Hitler record is
probably one of your most slept on the rest of
the president. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's come out party.

(02:08:35):
That was my come out party. Bro, that was my
come out party where I'm away from cold chilling. I'm
doing what the funk I want right now I got
I got this militant black dude that's one of throws
fists up and pump the pump the issue.

Speaker 3 (02:08:49):
Let's go black and proud. Rest the president?

Speaker 1 (02:08:52):
What when you made that beat like that?

Speaker 2 (02:08:54):
To me was like, yeah, the President?

Speaker 3 (02:08:57):
Yeah, that and and intelligence was due?

Speaker 1 (02:09:04):
What sample was that?

Speaker 3 (02:09:06):
What sample is that we remade that?

Speaker 1 (02:09:09):
We remade that for game period and didn't That's just
I put it on the shelf. But that was one
of my favorite Marley mal Piano lines. I can't, I can't,
I can't reveal it.

Speaker 3 (02:09:23):
Come on, man, I could reveal it.

Speaker 1 (02:09:25):
I can't reveal it.

Speaker 3 (02:09:26):
Not even in private, not on the air.

Speaker 1 (02:09:29):
But but but you know you, I think that's when
I first left, you know, I started working with Heavy
and I went to uptowns. They loved me. Yeah, I
did girls, they loved me. I did Overweight Loves in
the house, I worked on what else weight Loves and
the house girls they love me. Mister big stuff, you

(02:09:49):
get what you worked on that too. I was part
of it. So and then the Uptown's kicking it. So
so that's when id I left the Juice. I broke out.
I was like, I'm not fucking I'm done. I did
enough that I'm gonna do. You know what I'm saying.
I didn't want to. I don't want to even you know.
I just went over there and started working with them.

(02:10:10):
So started developing heavy with the Biz and Caine and
and got with Teddy Riley. Yeah. Can't out with Teddy,
I know, but I get a job done with jam
Like I like that. That was a good joint.

Speaker 2 (02:10:23):
He was cool.

Speaker 1 (02:10:24):
I mean it was.

Speaker 3 (02:10:25):
It was good, but it wasn't. It wasn't and it
wasn't what people expected to hear from him at that point.

Speaker 1 (02:10:33):
I know, but I always considered side to its aid.

Speaker 3 (02:10:39):
As the deep voice, the dark gable and more this.

Speaker 1 (02:10:48):
You know, I wish you because that that was leading
to taste of chocolate. It was just like, okay, Very
White and Alison Williams. He left about.

Speaker 2 (02:10:58):
No wrong with it.

Speaker 3 (02:11:00):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:11:01):
Barry White, Yeah, yeah, are you doing this to actually
wait a minute, know you did the day your mind.

Speaker 3 (02:11:12):
I t J Swan.

Speaker 1 (02:11:14):
We didn't talk about we gotta talk about TJ Swan.

Speaker 3 (02:11:17):
We're and who, well.

Speaker 1 (02:11:18):
Who TJ Swan? Who is the TJ t J Swan
was brought on? Because I see t J Swan. It's
not there's some another artist with t J Swan that
is not the singing t J Swan. Right, Yeah, it
was a few. It's like it was a t J
Swan before him. It was like another dude rhyming. Then

(02:11:40):
it was a singing guy. It was. It was it
was somebody that made a record before even he made.

Speaker 3 (02:11:45):
You know, I thought his record was going to come out.

Speaker 1 (02:11:47):
It was.

Speaker 3 (02:11:48):
It was supposed he was.

Speaker 1 (02:11:49):
He was signed to Arista a side deal, Davis. Let
me tell you something. Let me tell you to be honest.
Stop stopping. There was supposed to be a t J
Swan and Whitney.

Speaker 6 (02:12:05):
Do it.

Speaker 7 (02:12:07):
You?

Speaker 1 (02:12:12):
I'm not lying t J and Whitney.

Speaker 3 (02:12:17):
Yo, oh god, you.

Speaker 2 (02:12:22):
Want to know.

Speaker 1 (02:12:24):
Like the.

Speaker 3 (02:12:28):
Let me play? Let me wait?

Speaker 1 (02:12:29):
Is he still gonna let me lonely? Lord Jesus christ
one is the best worst singer ever? Wait wait, I
gotta find I gotta let me play.

Speaker 2 (02:12:42):
Let me lone you speech?

Speaker 1 (02:12:46):
She told me her name gave him and when I
stepped and she sat a better call. It took about
him up.

Speaker 3 (02:12:52):
She was finally mom.

Speaker 2 (02:12:54):
Everything was going school.

Speaker 3 (02:12:55):
We were doing fun.

Speaker 8 (02:12:57):
After a while, it wasn't a thing.

Speaker 1 (02:12:59):
We either holding hands.

Speaker 3 (02:13:01):
So she was under my wings.

Speaker 1 (02:13:02):
She wings, but in my ear, I'm the one and coolie.

Speaker 3 (02:13:05):
But she framed with another man and not me.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
No, Marvel's Marlin Williams, one of my idols, the reason
why I even have nineteen jobs today, has.

Speaker 6 (02:13:19):
Just sold me.

Speaker 1 (02:13:21):
That TJ. Swan, the Loneius Jerome Swann was about to
record with Whitney.

Speaker 3 (02:13:29):
For to be honest, it was.

Speaker 1 (02:13:31):
It was like a deal that Clive was like, your
Clod was like, yo, I want TJ Swan because because
TJ Swan was on all these all these street songs.

Speaker 3 (02:13:40):
You get what I'm saying, make the music with.

Speaker 1 (02:13:42):
Your mouth, piz. Nobody beats the biz, and I think
they wanted some of that. They wanted some of that,
you get what I'm saying, right, because they started their
division in the eighty eight with Eddie Murphy's brother.

Speaker 2 (02:13:53):
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 1 (02:13:58):
That was relative right, So you think it was Whitney
to put the knicks on it, like no, no, no, no, no, no,
it's something happened with Cold Chilling where he was going
to put put out Swan and then a cole came
from somebody at Cold Chilling and he didn't want to
be involved with going back and forth. So he's like, yo,

(02:14:18):
he's going to pass on this one. But you know,
you know that's that's basically what it was. We're here
with Malle mal Uh talking about the career that could
have been the great t J. Swan, So we kind

(02:14:39):
of joke about how on the show Unsung, like hip
hop is always the villain, like for a lot of
these soul bhoops.

Speaker 3 (02:14:47):
And then hip hop came and destroyed, you know, their career.

Speaker 1 (02:14:52):
But New Jack Swing is slowly coming around the corner
and is sort of edging traditional hip hop as the
new choice or whatever, Like, how are you adjusting it
to it? Because now I'm starting to hear like at
least on live on stage and some of the stuff
that the bumpy basslines that that that fresh Prince baseline

(02:15:18):
right right right right, So how are you adjusting to
To be honest, I mean, I accept the New Jack's
Swing when it came in because I really admired what
Teddy was doing back then because one thing I could
tell you about Teddy. He was the guy that was
taking hip hop sounds and putting it to R and
B and key right, And I was like, Wow, that's

(02:15:40):
kind of dope. That's like different. So I started I
started doing some remix like that too, kind of like
you know, I've produced the feel a few songs with
a little bouncy be baseline, round Away Girl and one
of those little baselines. You get what I'm saying. So
I kind of made a few joins. It's like that too,

(02:16:00):
because you believe me, I used that that Yamaha that
I was.

Speaker 3 (02:16:05):
Going to ask, what is what is your keyboard choice?

Speaker 1 (02:16:09):
Like what is it?

Speaker 3 (02:16:10):
Back then?

Speaker 1 (02:16:11):
That was a Yamaha t Z, a small little module
that the base base. Anybody was using that one just before.
I wanted to touch on this before we forgot, because
I think like no one ever talks about these guys.
The Flex. Oh yes, the Flex were the guys are
singing on Darren Lighty Around the Way Girl. How do

(02:16:32):
you know this?

Speaker 3 (02:16:33):
I was waiting for that album to come out after
and the Flex also had do you know this? Mamas?

Speaker 1 (02:16:39):
They lecked you out on Around the Way search.

Speaker 3 (02:16:43):
Now, let me read the liner notes.

Speaker 1 (02:16:46):
But let me explain what happened to them after this, okay,
who They became very very big after Around the Way girl,
But you may not know you're about to drop I'm
about to drop a bomb.

Speaker 3 (02:16:57):
Let me get it righty.

Speaker 1 (02:17:00):
They they produced Jehen, they produced Jahen. So all the
backgrounds is one of the guys, Cliff Lighty, he does
all Johann's backgrounds. Could it beat it? Every Jaen background?
Cliff Lighty is doing all right. Chris his brother, his brother,
that's the different set of Lighties. His brother Darren produces.

Speaker 3 (02:17:22):
In touch due to hight Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:17:26):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:17:29):
And then what else did they do?

Speaker 2 (02:17:31):
They did?

Speaker 3 (02:17:32):
They did?

Speaker 1 (02:17:32):
Like it was so many records they did.

Speaker 3 (02:17:34):
They did?

Speaker 1 (02:17:37):
What else?

Speaker 2 (02:17:37):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:17:38):
And then Eric from the group became in Black Street.

Speaker 3 (02:17:41):
Oh Eric, Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:17:46):
I'm trying to tell you. So all of them, all
of them did very very well after Around Away Girl.

Speaker 3 (02:17:52):
That was kind of like an intro for them. But
you know, Cliff did.

Speaker 1 (02:17:55):
Of course.

Speaker 3 (02:17:56):
I walked in the sand Mash one day.

Speaker 1 (02:18:00):
There's a lot of visitings. I walked into sam Ash
one day. I was looking at a keyboard. The salesman
was showing me on the keyboard, say he it does this,
it does this. Boom boom, it does this. He made
a beat right in frame.

Speaker 3 (02:18:11):
I was like, oh, that ship is hot.

Speaker 1 (02:18:13):
Give me two of those, right, I get it home.
I can't do nothing. I go back to the store. Yo,
my man, I can't do none of that. He's like, Yo,
it's so easy. He did it.

Speaker 3 (02:18:23):
I was like, Yo, hold up, man, how much you
making him?

Speaker 6 (02:18:26):
Bro?

Speaker 1 (02:18:26):
That was Darren Lighty, straight up changing people's lives. How
much you're working. How much you get up here in
sam mash Because I could double that, y'all. He quit
that day, came up to the house, It hits, and
that was it. We was good and we started and
we started making on the spot, and he showed me.

(02:18:49):
He became my programmer. And then into the picture now
ll I was he was. I was doing my radio
show and he's promoting Walking with the Panther, And you know,
I knew wasn't the greatest album for him, but I
still was giving them crops.

Speaker 3 (02:19:05):
I still giving them problem.

Speaker 1 (02:19:09):
Look it came out dropping them and like it was,
it was joint.

Speaker 3 (02:19:14):
Jingling was on.

Speaker 1 (02:19:16):
I didn't like.

Speaker 2 (02:19:17):
I like, I didn't like.

Speaker 3 (02:19:20):
That's what got me on. I said, yo, let me
remix that joint.

Speaker 1 (02:19:22):
When you said running niggas over like reading that, Trucker said,
oh yeah, said okay, and then Brian vocals that was
Jim Kelly's karate. Yeah, that was like, bro, you didn't
like that dropping them Nitro? Uh what else? I like
the joint on side to know, like squad had four

(02:19:47):
good joints on that you didn't like Big four with
your drums.

Speaker 3 (02:19:54):
Yes you said four right, like twenty songs on it.

Speaker 2 (02:19:58):
Yeah, it did you know?

Speaker 8 (02:19:59):
Okay, you know what I and it had your my
heart on it in two different worlds. Now, look here's
the thing. Here's the thing, all right, And that wasn't.

Speaker 1 (02:20:14):
TJ Swan walking with the panther is sentimental to me.
I just graduated high school.

Speaker 3 (02:20:22):
It just came out.

Speaker 1 (02:20:24):
I was curious to figure out if LLLL was going
to graduate to break beat. So the fact that dropping
him used the meters joining I was like, okay, he's
he's because LL is always like an indicator for what
will he jumped to that next level or not, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (02:20:42):
And so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:20:44):
Maybe it was the fact that I just graduated high school,
which was like it is. I like a lot of
shitty music too when I was a teenager. It's okay, yeah,
but he was, but he was definitely promoted. I like
the Jingling Baby. I didn't like that.

Speaker 6 (02:21:04):
Like that remix was like, am I assuming? I'm just
going to ask the one that I'm used to is
the may.

Speaker 1 (02:21:11):
One in the videos?

Speaker 9 (02:21:15):
Right, he says, dance to the remixing glove Yeah, with
the walking into sun side.

Speaker 3 (02:21:21):
And so you remixed it.

Speaker 1 (02:21:23):
They gave me a shot. They gave me a shot
to remix that, and you know, we remixed it and
it came out pretty well, did well. And then we
went in the studio kind of on our own and
started making an album without authorready from the station, I mean,
from his label. We just started making come to the crib,
let's make some joints. Boom, We like five in four
and six in seven and then boom boom. Actually, you know,

(02:21:46):
we bring it to Russell and he heard booming systems
and that was it.

Speaker 3 (02:21:51):
Boom.

Speaker 1 (02:21:51):
You're like, yo, yo, y'all want to.

Speaker 3 (02:21:53):
Do an album, Yo, it's done already.

Speaker 1 (02:21:55):
Why'd you do two versus a booming system? Because we
needed an edited version and we need one for one
was for radio. I mean the in Vogue version was
the version that I heard that one. Okay, I heard
that first on radio, and then when I brought the remix,
I heard the like they're both on the on the single.

Speaker 3 (02:22:12):
They were on a single. Yeah, both mixes were on
a single, but on the album it was a different one.

Speaker 1 (02:22:16):
See Philly radio just played the in Vogue version, right,
So when I brought the record, I was ready for
that and I heard the baseline.

Speaker 3 (02:22:21):
I was like, wait a minute, it's changed.

Speaker 1 (02:22:23):
But I actually liked the alun version better now. But
I always wanted to know, like, yes, I didn't want
it to be because we came. We made Booming System.
It was straight off of in Vogue. It was straight
off of in Vogue.

Speaker 3 (02:22:38):
You just loot it. Yeah, I just looped it up
and let them go.

Speaker 1 (02:22:41):
But then we put the record out and but the
guys from in Vogue, the producers, they was like, yeah,
we're gonna, so you go ahead, bro, we're gonna.

Speaker 3 (02:22:50):
But was that a infuse trap? It wasn't take them.

Speaker 1 (02:22:55):
But to be honest, that's one thing I can say
about them. Back in them days, they was like go ahead, bro,
that's a banger. They was like, yo, you got it.

Speaker 3 (02:23:04):
I was like really.

Speaker 1 (02:23:05):
They was like they just gave it up. They saw
the vision because they knew right would make their ship
right even more official, right right. So they didn't even
go at me. It's like your go ahead, little brother,
young brother, go ahead, bro. They did me like that,
and that was real good. They're like the only cast
that ever did that. Boy, there's like, go ahead, little brother,
do your thing.

Speaker 2 (02:23:25):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:23:26):
I was like, whoa, okay, and we're gonna fuck with
you with that. Wow, just just do this remix for us.
Then they hit me with the oh we want you
to remix hold On?

Speaker 3 (02:23:41):
Did you Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:23:41):
I remixed out Yeah, so that's solid. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:23:44):
So it was like it was like a trade off.
They didn't even bother me.

Speaker 1 (02:23:47):
I was like, wow, so did you feel pressure because
at that point I know that like Ll got booed
at the Apollo and you know, it was a new
generation and now his fate was in your hands. I
felt no pressure with them because I already knew. I
knew what I could do for l I think that
everything I've done to cold Chilling with cold Chilling with

(02:24:08):
Heavy to up that point got me ready to get
that Grammy with L.

Speaker 3 (02:24:13):
You get what I'm saying. You know, it's kind of
like I was in training.

Speaker 1 (02:24:15):
I was in training all my life, sparring and getting
up to the building myself in the ranks to get
with LLL and get that real shot. You get what
I'm saying. Because by the time we did that, you know,
it was great for his career and great for my career.

Speaker 6 (02:24:28):
What is the right to now see ll be the
ambassador for the Grammys Because here we are, like years later,
and he is the man. He's basically the spokesperson.

Speaker 3 (02:24:36):
Of course. Believe me, I fox with him all the time.

Speaker 1 (02:24:38):
Believe me, when he do these shows, I'm calling his
ass before he hit that stage, and we always talking
and I'm fucking with him.

Speaker 3 (02:24:45):
We laughing like a fuck. It's my dude. I fox
with him, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:24:49):
Before he do most of those shows, he always get
a call for me, and we you know, I know
they tape them early, So I catch him in the
morning and fuck with him, you know what I'm saying,
And we'd be laughing our ass off, and he go
over there and I tell him and the next day
I called me Yo, Yo, Yeah, Thish was so and
so I'm proud of you because I'm proud of that dude, man,
real proud of it was the folklore of his process,

(02:25:10):
real where he like had to go back to his
grandmom's basement and and right and getting that mood.

Speaker 3 (02:25:17):
And yeah, he lived that much.

Speaker 1 (02:25:19):
He still had that Queen's residence where I believe he
still they still own that residence there. But when we did,
Mama said, knock you out. He literally came and lived
at my house.

Speaker 3 (02:25:33):
He was that serious. But did he feel like I
have something to prove?

Speaker 1 (02:25:36):
I'm sure he did.

Speaker 3 (02:25:37):
Yeah, he had a lot to prove after walking with
the pant.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
Did he feel like a man like I still got
to come with it because because it's still yielded hits
like Big Ol'd but was still getting played on.

Speaker 3 (02:25:50):
I forgot that.

Speaker 1 (02:25:51):
But he wasn't joined. I think loved. I think to
be honest, he knew what he wanted you get him.
He wanted the respect and he knew what he wanted.
He came and told me, He's like, yo, you know,
he started telling me the story.

Speaker 7 (02:26:02):
Yo.

Speaker 1 (02:26:02):
When I first heard Kane, I was like, oh my god.
When I first heard someone so I was like, oh
my god. He's like, Yo, how could I do this?
You know, I'm like, yo, come on, you give what
I'm saying. Prep gave him the prep give what I'm saying.
And we went in there and just tore niggas down.
At least give me the story of like making that record.
Did you know it was monumental or was it just like, yeah,
here's another beat. I kind of felt that in a

(02:26:26):
way what it is because Bobcat, you know DJ Bobcat.
You know, he had he had the sample, he had this, Yeah,
he had to kind of he had he had the
he had it sampled up on a disc, and you know,
he was going through sounds and he was playing that
and then I just added a drum to it, kind
of filtered it, flipped it and and you know, we

(02:26:49):
let and then I let my you know, I let
my dude. You know, sometimes what has started happening with
me after awhile I started, I started not want to
record people. Vocals sound familiar.

Speaker 3 (02:27:01):
I hate recording.

Speaker 1 (02:27:02):
Yes, yeah, sometimes, you know I started after a while,
I want to make the beats, but I can't. I
can't stomach sitting here doing the vocals too much.

Speaker 3 (02:27:11):
So so only someone that knows the pain. Yeah, so
so so I said that day, I said to my engineer.

Speaker 1 (02:27:19):
Just record ll vocals, you know, recorded right, And I
stood back and he was easily wind and then pressed
play and record and but LLL didn't know what was
going and he said, come on, man, and then the
beat dropped, and I was like, so that was real.

Speaker 3 (02:27:40):
That wasn't getting annoyed.

Speaker 1 (02:27:41):
That was really him screaming at the engineer. Poor engineers.
I was like a hip hop engineer start with, start
with all the abuse that engineers have to take it
the rappers and management. I had a question about, uh,
to knock you out milky cereals, not milky cereal, mister

(02:28:04):
good Ball, the little snippet. Nah, no, I'm saying, happened
to me, happen yo, It's so funny. He's just we
just decided to give it out a crazy intro. He
just said that just to bug out. Yeah, yeah, he's
just give it a crazy intro. And Murder Graham was
just yeah, Murder Graham was his little story about.

Speaker 3 (02:28:25):
But I've been like, was it supposed to be live? Oh, yeah,
it's supposed to be live.

Speaker 1 (02:28:29):
We kind of made that up to be live put
the crowd in the back. But I think they tried
to sue us for using the name rap Mania. Things
coming out everywhere? Really, yeah, it's coming out of every everywhere.
I'm like, come on, really, do anybody have a copy
of rap Mania? Yeah, I think they tried to sue us.
I've been trying to find that. That's crazy. It was

(02:28:51):
a pay per view concert where Redman went out of
his mind with the on the monitor. Man. I not
that this was pre this was we read. Yeah, this
was like ninety You gotta do some research somebody finding
rap Mania.

Speaker 2 (02:29:05):
Wow.

Speaker 9 (02:29:05):
Yeah, Okay, I remember because I remember asking my parents
to get it on pay per.

Speaker 4 (02:29:10):
View and they were like no.

Speaker 1 (02:29:11):
And that's why we put Live at rat Mania on
it because he was trying to act like he was
on rat Mania. Okay, okay, So that cheesy rat blues
was it was. It was his story talking about how
they treated him after walking with the panther.

Speaker 3 (02:29:27):
Cheesy rat You ain't all that.

Speaker 1 (02:29:29):
It just hit me.

Speaker 3 (02:29:31):
He did to the Break of Dawn as well. Yeah,
so that makes number five like.

Speaker 1 (02:29:38):
Handle the whole way you are?

Speaker 6 (02:29:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:29:41):
Who else was got this? Another?

Speaker 2 (02:29:44):
He got.

Speaker 1 (02:29:46):
Hammer and yeah, yeah, or I know about Iced Tea
and Ham, but I didn't know that Hammer and him
had yeah situation, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was he
had beef with Hammer Iced Tea and he went at
all three of them onto the Break of Dawn. Did
not know that break And by the time ninety one,

(02:30:06):
like Mod was kind of I mean that was it
was over much because New Jack was kind of like
going where it was going, you know what I mean.
And and a lot of these tracks was kind of
he was on that New Jackson hard. Yeah, all New
Jack track you Rise and Shine Go see the Doctor earlier.
Ain't that you know what I'm saying? Okay, But he

(02:30:33):
was always lyrical though, who do you think in the
battle wise we think of rock on Mod l what
do you think lyrically?

Speaker 2 (02:30:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:30:41):
Did you like Let's Go?

Speaker 3 (02:30:42):
I like let's go. I like let's go. We we
did the lant lazy so much a liter ration.

Speaker 1 (02:31:02):
Yeah, No, I like Let's go. But lyrically I think
that was like for me, like watching the L and
MO d Like, I always respect the mod because he
really was the only guy from like the original like
original original, the results. He's the only one that survived,
you know what I'm saying. So I always respected him.
I just think it was a time where it was

(02:31:23):
a thing where it was really like you were saying
earlier maw like the old line versus the new line,
and to me like mo d had lyrics, but Llll
could take your shirt off and nigga, it didn't matter
no more, you know what I'm saying. So it was
like it was just kind of he was I think
he was as a lyricist, mod was dope, but he

(02:31:43):
was just kind of his time had passed at that point.
I think of the two LL responses, I mean, to
the Break of Dawn was my favorite. But again I'm
a music guy, so no, I'm with you. I like
to the Break because cool. It was like it was
like it was either cool al or like Holland jet

(02:32:03):
so and always like just the cool. How did you
get cool l delivery on that song instead of his
house I had?

Speaker 3 (02:32:10):
I told him, And we can't scream no more. Basically,
we can't.

Speaker 1 (02:32:14):
We can't be we can't be angry on records because
you gotta take a different approach. You gotta, you gotta
instead of screaming at him, you gotta talk to him,
and that's what we did, kind of like with Jingling, right,
that's when I told him.

Speaker 3 (02:32:29):
I like, yo, we can't.

Speaker 2 (02:32:30):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (02:32:30):
He wanted to be super aggressive, right, he wanted to
do his vocals over the other way, kind of like
the first ones. I was like, no, no, no, we're
not gonna We're not gonna really do that at this time.
Let's let's let's like, you know.

Speaker 9 (02:32:43):
It's actually interesting, you said, because I first heard the
biggest change in the L's voice the first time I
heard booming system.

Speaker 1 (02:32:49):
It sounded like a completely I didn't even know it
was I didn't know it was them.

Speaker 3 (02:32:53):
It just came on. I was like, who the fuck
is this?

Speaker 1 (02:32:55):
And yeah, yeah, there was a lot of effects on
the voice too.

Speaker 3 (02:33:04):
So let me ask.

Speaker 1 (02:33:07):
Because there's always the end to the yang, let's jump
three years later, fourteen shots of the Dome. Okay, no, god.

Speaker 3 (02:33:21):
No, because it was all.

Speaker 1 (02:33:23):
Like I remember that being the first review in the
source that had consequences to it, and Russell was not
having that. And you know, the original mind Squad review
like the first time that their record review could influence

(02:33:48):
their reader and it causing a response or maybe a
retaliation or not for someone in hip hop. Was that
Walking with the Panther record. So what was different about
the process of fourteen Shots in the Doom? Then Mama
said knock you out because big, big, big difference.

Speaker 3 (02:34:10):
It should have been.

Speaker 1 (02:34:13):
It's supposed to be the follow up to should have
been Victory Last, Right, But guess what. Guess who started
acting around that time. Guess Michael J No, No, guess
who went to go do the Toy in the middle
of my project? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:34:30):
The Toys was uh Robin Willis.

Speaker 1 (02:34:33):
Right, right, So that's kind of what happened with that project.
In the middle of the project, we in the zone,
was in the zone. Next thing, you know, we all
gotta go wait for nine months to go do a movie.
I'm like, dukes, We're in the.

Speaker 3 (02:34:46):
Middle of an album.

Speaker 4 (02:34:48):
M mm.

Speaker 1 (02:34:49):
So how long did Mama said knock you out? Take
to record the album? Like two weeks or some ship
and then wait, fourteen shots. It was like real quick,
he just knocked it out. Yeah. We was banging the
down like knock it out. Yeah, we've been banging them
down like nothing.

Speaker 3 (02:35:04):
I told you.

Speaker 1 (02:35:04):
He came and lived lived up the crib upstate. So
we was making maybe two records a day, and then
fourteen shots was how long? Fourteen shots took about a
year and some change to make. Because fourteen shots took
fourteen months, it's too long because now you know, now
you know he's coming like a week for like a
record or two. I'm like, dudes, we can't, we can't
make records like this, bro we we wasn't the same formula.

(02:35:29):
So you feel that the disrupted rhythm. Yeah, of not
bouncing off each other one hundred percent, that's exactly what
they God, now you're scaring me.

Speaker 3 (02:35:38):
Stop looking at me like that serious, because he do wan.

Speaker 1 (02:35:42):
He started, you know, making movies and then all of
a sudden, we wasn't in the studio as much.

Speaker 3 (02:35:47):
We wasn't vibing like that.

Speaker 1 (02:35:48):
Every wait, everyone listened. Everyone's looking at me like, all right,
mister nineteen jobs, you better.

Speaker 3 (02:35:56):
Dropped everything this next week hearing this story.

Speaker 1 (02:36:01):
But what it was though, you know, it's like he
started focusing and you know, he did good on that
movie and then all of a sudden, you know, that's
when that's when the movie starts. You know, the movie
started coming in and the TV and all of that,
and you know, the album didn't really do well like
it should have because we I didn't have no real
time to do it.

Speaker 3 (02:36:20):
I ain't have no time.

Speaker 1 (02:36:21):
And then if I made something six months ago, this
ship ain't hot. Now you get what I'm saying. When
we when we made the other album, that ship was
so hot off the press, Yo, the fucking reels were
still warm. You get what I'm saying. Did you do Crossroads?
I was involved with it? I was I was involved.

(02:36:42):
I was involved with Yeah, they made him make that.

Speaker 3 (02:36:50):
Wait was his dad in the picture right now?

Speaker 4 (02:36:52):
Or ah?

Speaker 3 (02:36:59):
Because like the hollering came back, the screaming, you know
what I say.

Speaker 2 (02:37:04):
I was.

Speaker 3 (02:37:05):
As I'm trying to say, all the screaming came back well.

Speaker 1 (02:37:09):
Because he probably felt especially after the heat of doing
it on MTV unplug You remember the years that and
he did it at the MTV Awards were like a
ninety piece band at the MT Yeah hit me twelve times.

Speaker 2 (02:37:33):
Yeah, he was right.

Speaker 3 (02:37:34):
You probably couldn't tell him nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:37:36):
He was back.

Speaker 3 (02:37:37):
Ah man, he telling me that he had to.

Speaker 1 (02:37:41):
If he had more focus and did it in a
concise time period of maybe a month or so, it
would have been a different.

Speaker 3 (02:37:50):
I believe if there was no Toy movie. That was
a weird.

Speaker 7 (02:37:55):
And then when I saw that was dudes, that was
a weird fucking we did we did this for that.
We blew an album for that.

Speaker 1 (02:38:08):
Ye, because the movie didn't do well, Wait, let's not
totally tank it, because I mean back was a classic
back and Pink Cookies that remix. Though the the movie
yes crazy like they were, yes, they were. There was

(02:38:30):
there was little there was. There was moments on there,
but it wasn't enough moments was like stand man stand.
So after that, like was the feeling the aftermath of well,
I mean that's when I think the track masters took
over and then probably took all my beat loops and

(02:38:53):
made everybody beats and you know, did what they did.
But no, I mean you still have Lords. You still
oh yeah, Lord? Yeah. I moved on them with Lords.
And that's when Lords started popping. Funky child Lords of
the Underground And how did you meet them? Because they're straight,
they're Jersey. Well, I had I had an idea of
a group called Lords of the Underground. I had the name,

(02:39:16):
but I was looking for somebody who would be Lords
of the Underground. And I saw them performing. They used
to be a group called New Jersey Funk. Oh yeah,
it's a better name, Lords under That's what I'm saying.
So so when I saw them performed, I said, oh,
that's the Lords of the Underground. So I was like, look,
I'm looking to do a group called Lords of the Underground,
and would you all like to be him? And they're
like yeah, because they had the energy and everything, and

(02:39:37):
you know, and we made a little history with them.

Speaker 3 (02:39:40):
They did really well.

Speaker 1 (02:39:41):
Yeah yeah, I mean well Psycho was that when Psycho
came out, that was the ninety three beat, the freestyle
over wow and and Philly Wow. I didn't even know.
You know, the funny thing about putting out these records, Yeah,
it's the funny thing about dropping all of these records. Reasonally,

(02:40:02):
I don't know how well they do. Like you said,
that was an excellent rhyme and beat and the yeah, yeah,
that's what every cat in Philly wanted. The freestyle wow,
piece of Philly right right there. That's real talk man. Wow.

Speaker 3 (02:40:18):
Yeah, Like I felt like you were because that was
you really.

Speaker 1 (02:40:25):
Not even graduating, but again updating your sound to modern
hip hop. There you go. And I felt like, oh, okay,
Marley's on a mission to really like not revenge, but
like to let y'all know, like I'm still in this.

Speaker 2 (02:40:41):
Mom and.

Speaker 7 (02:40:44):
It is hard.

Speaker 1 (02:40:45):
It's hard for people to last that long and still
remain ahead of the curve with that sort of thing.
So yeah, no doubt. I think with Psycho, I wanted
to take it there. I definitely want to take it
there because I felt there was a new group I
want to come with, like a whole new sound and
a whole new look for it. And you know, Psycho
did what it did, and then you know we had

(02:41:05):
to bust him in the head with Chief Rocker and
all that other ship. Yes, he's the k Death. Where
are they now, I'm lords they performing? Does one of
them live in Paris? Oh yeah, the DJ lives in Paris,
do it all? You know, he's running Jersey and Funky.
He's in North Carolina. And you know they still to

(02:41:26):
all over the world. They still every summer they going
to those festivals.

Speaker 3 (02:41:32):
They rocking.

Speaker 1 (02:41:32):
They never stopped yet, that's all. Like I said, yeah, yeah,
they're still going. Just to make sure, all right, we're
about to wrap up the show, because you know, you
probably have a nine hour story. But I always wanted
to know the deal with on the reil with not Nice?
Where did that come from? Like, was that initially supposed

(02:41:53):
to be on Allmatic or yeah it was. It was
originally supposed to be on it. And when he was
making his album, he you know, just after he did
a few singles and he was working on his album
and Biggie was out, and you know, he had a concern.
He came to visit me. I was surprised. One day

(02:42:14):
Nozzle was at my door up state. Oh shit, no,
I just here, what up? Baby? Were talking and we talked, say, yo,
I'm ready to work on my thing, you know, making
my album. He said, Yo, he said, you think people
still gonna like me? I was like, this is for
the second album.

Speaker 3 (02:42:29):
This is like that album. This is one.

Speaker 1 (02:42:31):
He was working on the album because he had the
singles out first and the barbecue, you know, the barbecue
was out, so he was he was hot. But then
Biggie came. You get what I'm saying, And he came like, Yo,
you think you think they're gonna still love me? I'm like, dude,
you the nigga that said fucking you. You know, he
went to Jeff of snuffing Jesus, nigga, nobody's gonna ever
forget that. I said, matter of fact, let me throw

(02:42:55):
let me show you something, let me throw you on something.
So I threw up on the real beat, and his
man and everybody and is like, oh.

Speaker 3 (02:43:01):
Shit, it's aunt adventage though, like, how how long have
you had that on?

Speaker 4 (02:43:06):
That was?

Speaker 3 (02:43:07):
I had that.

Speaker 1 (02:43:07):
I kind of like held that out for him because
I already knew that nads were murder this ship. Certain
beats I just hold out for certain artists. I could
just hear like, I just gotta I gotta beat with
Action brons, and you know, I had to beat that
I know that would fit action. One day I met him, Yo,
I got something for you, threw it on him and
we got a joint. But you know, sometimes sometimes I
just hold out a beat for something. I feel that

(02:43:29):
to go to an artist. So I put him on
on the reel and and he loved it.

Speaker 3 (02:43:34):
He did.

Speaker 1 (02:43:34):
People will in verse on it, and his people kept
telling him, yo, that's the ship.

Speaker 2 (02:43:39):
That's the ship.

Speaker 3 (02:43:40):
Yo, Yo, God, that's the ship.

Speaker 1 (02:43:42):
So time went by, the album was almost finished. I'm like,
I guess he ain't gonna use this ship, damn you
get what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (02:43:49):
So I was like, fuck it.

Speaker 1 (02:43:51):
His album came out, he didn't use it, so I
fucked around and put Cormega on it and Screwball. You
get what I'm saying. So it's like a QB song.
So I wasn't trying to put it. I was just
making a song just to you know, just have a
tape around the hood fucking celebration with all. There was
never no tape with Mega Damn and Screwball on it.

(02:44:12):
And then I think he heard it, and then when
he's like, then he really didn't want to use it.

Speaker 3 (02:44:18):
But then when he did the.

Speaker 1 (02:44:19):
Anniversary ten years later for Ill madd, He's like, yo,
that was supposed to be on the joint. Let me
put it on a ten year anniversary version.

Speaker 3 (02:44:27):
So that's why he went.

Speaker 1 (02:44:28):
Back in, did his vocals back over, and then used
it as his record. But it was originally supposed to
be on the first album, I see. So that's why
he put it on the tenth anniversary as a bonus
because it was supposed to be there. So all the
projects that you've done in your career, and you've never
never stopped making music, like you made the collaboration record
with Kris One. Finally and all like, what is your

(02:44:52):
what is your proudest moment as a creator. My proudest
moment as a creator is watching TV watching myself win
a Grammy when they, you know, they mentioned our song
and they mentioned the artists and who produced it. I
saw it on TV. I didn't even go because I

(02:45:12):
didn't even think we was gonna win what and you know,
and plus because they wasn't they wasn't presenting our award.
Yeah right, so they say and tonight, so and so
you get what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (02:45:23):
So they put us in that. And when I heard that,
I was like wow.

Speaker 1 (02:45:26):
I was home. I was like wow. People started calling
me yo, you gotta grammy. I was like, oh, ship.
So that was like one of my proudest moments. It's
like it all boiled down to that. Where do you
keep your grammy in the studio? Okay, keep its doorstopping,
yeah yeah, whatever?

Speaker 3 (02:45:46):
In the bathroom toilet paper holder?

Speaker 1 (02:45:49):
Greatest place to put your grammy? Man, Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 5 (02:45:52):
Where Bill was in a shelf at my house, in
the toilet, in the toilet, okay, next to some other ship.

Speaker 2 (02:46:05):
Dog.

Speaker 1 (02:46:05):
I've learned so much about I'm mind blowing, like how
much I'm still working through the whole sho. Wow.

Speaker 5 (02:46:19):
I'm never using real high hats again, that's I tell you, man,
I'm just talking.

Speaker 1 (02:46:23):
Because we're so you know, we so we're just using
anything we could, you could, how to funk the mic,
you know, some stuff that didn't work as you say this,
all right? You remember the group Switch used to be
on motel if you can, if you can listen to
their second album, switch To they had a single called
the Best Beat in Town. Now that I think of it,

(02:46:48):
the high hat on that was them, the Beatles too,
for what's it's some ship like you can hear them.
I have to say, Okay, I'm not making that up.
That's true. No, No, I'm gonna go home. Listen REVOLVERSNA
beat your ass. So that's fine. Well Marley, uh well, no,

(02:47:16):
we gotta do a reflection, Yes, reflections.

Speaker 3 (02:47:19):
Where do we start? Font Tikolo?

Speaker 2 (02:47:22):
Man? What have I learned?

Speaker 3 (02:47:24):
What do we learn today?

Speaker 6 (02:47:25):
Man?

Speaker 2 (02:47:25):
Man?

Speaker 1 (02:47:26):
I think I learned, you know, just so much? It
uh really for me, just hearing Marty's story, it just
reinforced for me to just kind of stay on the
path on that I'm on so much of our early records,
you know what I'm saying with little brother, and you know,
they were just done on really primitive equipment, and you know,

(02:47:46):
even to the point that when you know, after you know,
you get some bread or whatever and you can build
your own studio. My studio now is still pretty basic,
you know what I'm saying. It's not a whole lot
of gadgets, and it's still pretty much a small space.
So just hear that all these classic records that I
grew up listening to were essentially made just you know,
in some in his kitchen or at his crib. I mean,

(02:48:07):
that's it just shows to me. I think, just you know,
it ain't really about what you got. It's not about
the gear. It's about the person that's using it, you
know what I mean. And just to hear the story
of how you triggered samples before there was an SP
I mean, I remember trying to work in SP by
my you know when it actually came out and I
was like, what in the hell. So just to even

(02:48:28):
be doing it back then, it's really amazing. But but nah, man,
this is his his career for me is a big
inspiration and you know, this is my first time seeing
Bally since ship oh three.

Speaker 3 (02:48:41):
Like future Flavors.

Speaker 1 (02:48:42):
Well, we came up me Pete Rock, uh little brother
the ninth Pool. We all came up there and uh
we did it at his crib, Sugar.

Speaker 3 (02:48:53):
Steve, what did you learn?

Speaker 4 (02:48:56):
Uh?

Speaker 10 (02:48:56):
Infinite stuff tonight? As an engineer, it's very interesting to
hear the early days of sampling and all the use
what you got, the type of technology that I started
out doing too on a double cassette deck, not a
four track.

Speaker 1 (02:49:10):
But and then all this stuff about.

Speaker 10 (02:49:15):
About how you were creating those songs that became classics
for it just for your for your radio show, and
making that connection between you know, the old school DJs
advancing things into the DJs making their own their own beats,
you know, and you know that's it's a big connection
to make, you know, to understand how hip hop started.

Speaker 3 (02:49:39):
Yes, lessons a bell Boss Bill, it's the high hats Man.

Speaker 9 (02:49:46):
It's the most mind blowing thing because one that's one
of my favorite beats ever and it's mostly because of
those high hats. So just to find out that your
mouth is the source of those high hats, it's kind
of fucked my head up.

Speaker 3 (02:49:57):
So that yeah, that's a major takeaway from me. I'm sorry,
I wish I had something more substantial.

Speaker 1 (02:50:03):
But that dude that blew he dropped many bombed to night,
blew my mind, unpaid Bill.

Speaker 5 (02:50:09):
The visionaries and icons that come on the show all
come from these places where they people that live around
them are in the next apartment or whatever, are are
integral parts of their visionary peaty right, which is amazing.
And so like with with Marley, it's like Queen's Bridge
and all the people in the thing, And like with
Ray Parker was Detroit, right and all the people out

(02:50:30):
of Detroit, And both of you did the same thing
is when we asked you a question that we didn't
know the answer to, like did you do this? Both
of you said, of course I did. Like where, Like
that's the dumbest fucking question. And I love that, man,
shut up, which is how I feel on the show

(02:50:50):
just about every day.

Speaker 1 (02:50:53):
It's a lesson for all.

Speaker 3 (02:50:54):
No, I'm joking, but yes, I love that part of it.

Speaker 1 (02:50:57):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (02:50:59):
I knew you were a legend before we had to
sit down, However, I did not know you were a
national treasure. And I feel like the rest of the world.
It just needs to be acknowledged. And I really hope
that you know, you and the mere continue this conversation
with the Smithsonian, because I don't feel like there should
be a Smithsonian with the history of our culture, includes

(02:51:22):
of hip hop, and you not be there yet.

Speaker 3 (02:51:24):
We need to get that board back.

Speaker 6 (02:51:26):
We don't even need whatever whatever you got God, yeah, yeah,
that's what I just I just learned it, like you
need to be. It needs to be a foreword by
Marley on every like hip hop blog that MC's or
DJs think that it's their bible.

Speaker 1 (02:51:44):
Like Marley, I really appreciate the fact that you had
so much experience in this business and you remembered a
lot of detail, because that's that's kind of one of
the hardest things about a show of this caliber, where

(02:52:07):
you know, details become real shaky, and you know, people
don't remember things, and you know, I feel it's like
really important to document the stories and keep the tradition
and the history going. I'm mind blown by so many things,
but let me, I feel very validated with the it's
all about the guitar pedals. I just did an instagram.

(02:52:31):
Think about that, right that you're putting the drums. Yes,
I'm and I'm going back to now. You can't tell
me nothing, It's all about guitar, guitar pedals. Well, I
thank you very much for your time, Marley Man, give
it up, Ladies, and Jail.

Speaker 2 (02:52:54):
West.

Speaker 1 (02:52:54):
Love Supreme is production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was
produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.