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March 25, 2024 66 mins

The guests on this 2020 episode of Questlove Supreme have been called one of the most important rock bands in the last 30 years, also being credited as pioneers in the Riot Grrrl movement. Listen to this QLS Classic as Sleater Kinney breakdown why hiatus is necessary and how this journey led them to a Path of Wellness.


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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
What is Up?

Speaker 3 (00:07):
But this is Unpaid Bill from Quest Love Supreme. In
celebration of Women's History Month, we are highlighting conversations new
and all with some legendary women. Back in July twenty
twenty one, we interviewed one of the most important rock
bands in the last thirty years, also being credited as
pioneers in the riot girl movement. I asked Kerry and
Karen about having a band without a bass player, which
always blew me away. Listen back as sleeper Kenny talk

about health, creativity and art.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Enjoy this episode, Ladies and gentlemen, I have the name
of my show. Okay, got free Style Supree? Right, matter
of fact, let's just let this be the intro summer

of summer Summer. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Questlove and
you're listening to another episode of Quest Love Supreme featuring
Unpaid Bill, Tony winner of Freestyle Love Supreme. By the way, yes,
we have also Fontigoelo with us What's up? Brother? What Up?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
What Up?

Speaker 1 (01:14):
What up? What's that? And Sugar Steve Hi? Everybody, Yeah,
how you doing? This is gonna be a very quiet episode.
Because Lai is not with us right now, but she's
with us a very quiet episode. We're very honored to
have our guest today. Our guest first emerged from Olympia,
Washington via nineteen ninety four. Well, I would like to

say that Northwest, because I don't know if it's Portland
or Olympia, Washington. But I will say that I became
aware of them because of everyone knows that, of my
fan worship of music critics, and it's like my my,
my music hero. Robert Christgau, formerly of the of the

Village Voice, he called them one of the most important
rock band in the last thirty years, and they've been
rightfully credited as the pioneers and the Ryot Girl movement.
Between their self titled debut and ninety four and their
seventh album, The Wood in two thousand and five, they
took a nine year hiatus, which I'd never heard of

hiatus that long unless you're from Richmond, Virginia. Returning say sorry,
no shame, right, that's a real hiatus, returning with twenty
fourteen No Cities to Love, following another five year break
with these, Saint Vincent produced The Center Won't Hold. By
the Way, shout out to any band that uses any

Chinwana Chevy or William Yeats references in their album titles.
If the Roots were to make Things Fall Apart Part two,
I would have actually called it The Center Won't Hold. Thankfully,
the gap between their latest album, which is called The
Path Wellness, was only two years. And gentlemen, please welcome
to Questlove Supreme leader Kenny, Thank you ladies for joining us.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yes for having us, Thanks for having us. How are
you We're good? We're good, Yeah, We're we Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
We would just to answer your question from the intro,
I think it was I think the Northwest is a
good enough thing to say because Olympia Portland. Yeah, they're
far apart, but we were kind of living in both
places at once, so that counts.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
You know. What is weird In doing research, I've realized
I didn't realize how much of the actions of the
Northwest and the creative epicenter of the Northwest really informed
the blueprint of my career, because you know, in choosing

Geffen as a label, of course, Nirvana was like part
of that decision making even us having to move to Europe.
Inavertent Kirk is sort of responsible for that but you know,
we spent a lot of time, like Portland's my all
time favorite city on Earth, and just the time period
that we spent performing and gigging between the two states

between like ninety four to ninety nine, well really on,
but there was a period between like ninety four and
ninety nine in which like we did a lot of
concentrated touring between the two areas and sort of having
gotten to know like a lot of people that were
sort of legends on the scene, Like I didn't get
to know YouTube, but like when I first got there,

sort of like Kathleen was kind of our guide, like
and you know, we really didn't know about the riot
Girl movement and anything like that, but she was like
really an interesting character that sort of like took a
liking to us and kind of shows us a rope.
And so I didn't realize like how much the north
the Northwest sort of played in our decision. I actually
wanted to start by asking, so during that period it

in which like the entire music press was like salivating
almost fetishizing like what's coming, Like what's what's the magic
in the Northwest or whatnot? Like how did how does
that play into how you can even find a space
to be creative and in forming a band and getting
space when like every critic is looking for the next

like who's coming out on sub pop or these labels?
Like what was it like then?

Speaker 5 (05:29):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think it was.

Speaker 6 (05:31):
I think it was pretty overwhelming, like at the time,
because there was such high level journalists who would like
come to a Riot Girl meeting or show up at
a Riot Girl show. And you know, we were we
were kids at the time, Like we were writing this

like confessional poetry and this, you know, this work that
was like very personal and I don't think we realized
how intense that spotlight was, but when we did, I
think it was, you know, it felt like it was
almost radioactive at times.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, and we actually left like when Slater Kinney formed,
which was yeah, like nineteen ninety four. We were still
in other bands, but we wanted we started playing music together,
and you know, Olympia and that scene was so insular,
and I mean, you know, when you're coming out of
a small scene, there's it's like a blessing and a curse.
You have all this support, there's community, but then there's

also this way where you feel like everyone already knows you.
Everyone already kind of has these expectations of you, and
you can't necessarily step out of that or redefine who
you want to be. And so we actually went all
the way to Australia, like we actually created space and
distance in order to be able to imagine ourselves as
something else, imagine ourselves outside the glare of some of that,

you know, journalistic scrutiny.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
And I think you have to do that.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
You either, if you don't have the ability to physically leave,
you have to create an imagined space for yourself.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I was wondering if that was a typo because I
was like, wait a minute, Melbourne, Australia to create your
first record, Like how does that happen? But I also
I also wanted to know because it's weird because I
fell into you guys. Kind of ask backwards and I'll
be fully transparent. It's like I know everything about you guys,
and I know nothing about you guys, only because it's

kind of weird to say that fell and ask backwards
because usually when a guest comes on the show, like
I know everything about them but their DNA. And so
in my particular case, like if people come up to
me in the airport. They you know, refer to me
as like, oh, that's Jimmy Fallon's drummer, or like, oh,
you're the guy on your Gaba gabba, And you know,
sometimes my ego, like it doesn't hurt now, but like

in the beginning, like my ego would get like really deflated,
and I would just you know, I feel like that
was sort of like asking Michael Jordan if he's the
guy Haines commercial. So I would say that you were
always a name that was I was fully aware of
up until the creation of Portlandia. Like I only knew
and studied the leader model simply because like your names

were always constantly on the top of every like of
critics I worship, and like your metacritic numbers were super high,
you know, Krista Galas putting you on the top of
the pass and job stuff, and like again like I'm
gonna critic obsessive, like putting these shits on my wall,
studying these things, figuring out the metrics and all that stuff,
and you know, but it took reading your Hunger book

Carrier for me to really like, all right, I'm gonna
dive into this and actually like I'm gonna immerse myself
and understand their art. And the thing was because I
fell into you first with humor, and then I went
back to the self title I was in ninety five,
I was like, oh wait a minute, huh. I was like,
YO said, I wasn't ready, But then I really that

you guys have have really like I feel like we
almost took a similar journey in terms of you know,
where you started the internet meme, how it started, where
it's and where where you are now. It's it's been
quite a journey. How are you? How are you as
far as the position of where you're perceived as like

this really influential group that is influential to other musicians
but like not mainstream. Like how does that feel?

Speaker 6 (09:31):
You know? I think like you're saying you've like been
through a journey, and I feel like I feel like
with you know, with getting older and with kind of
having that realization the music is a journey, you know,
and that art is a journey, and humor and all

of it can be part of it. I think that
I feel really grateful of where we're at in a
way because it's true we might have like less commercial
success and a lot of other like bands that we've
sort of come up with, but we have a lot
of like artistic freedom, you know that I feel like

we are still on this journey that is like we're
building on it, like with producing our last, our most
recent record ourselves and trying out different things and hiring
this whole new band of musicians. Like I'm I feel
really lucky in that way of like I feel very
much like we are on this journey of like learning
and becoming more you know, able to make art and

make music.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
I was going to ask why it took so long
for you guys to finally produce your records and what
took so long to come to this place where you
know what is in your head and what you want
to execute Or is it just important sometimes to have
a fresh set of ears that can sort of, you know,
is not afraid to challenge you or make you find,

you know, an alternative way to get your ideas out.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, I think it's been nice to have an arbiter
and you know, I mean, you know, from being in
a band, it's different than being a solo artist. So
you're already contending with multiple personalities and sometimes you need
that peacekeeper and so that you're not sort of turning
on each other with ideas. You know, someone that can
just step in and be like how about this, and

you know, and then it almost gives you as a
group something to like cohere around. You're like, well, actually
we think you know, it just it forms these like
in group dynamics. So I think we've always relied on
I mean, I would say our early records were for
all intents and purposes co produced by us, you know,
as you know, aside from like Dave Fridman on The
Woods or The Sky Roger Mutino on the Hot Rock.

It was very hands off approach from our producers. You know,
they often wanted to just kind of capture the essence,
but it was just nice to have another voice there,
I guess.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
So yeah, that's why since.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
The constant presence on you know, a majority of your
records was so John Goodmanson, who you know I'm familiar
with well with his Wu Tang credit. I mean, he's
worked with The Risk a few times. Yep, done a
whole bunch of other albums. I always wanted to know, like,
was it a thing where if you felt that you
could express an idea to your bandmates that you'd sort

of expressed it to him and then he could sort
of translate it better so that feelings weren't rattled or whatnot.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Or I don't feel like we ever circumvented each other.
I think it was just having a sounding board and
we trusted him. Like you said, like he's worked with
really a broad range of artists.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
He's great.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know, we never traditionally had a bass player, so
he's great with drums, he's great with low end like
he's Yeah, it was I think it was almost like
he was part cheerleader, part kind of deciding vote. But
we never like said, hey, John, can you tell Korin
that I'd rather do this?

Speaker 1 (13:00):
So you're not the roots? Okay, I get it, I
get it. Okay. Usually I start the show off. I'm
very interested in the journey that gets you there. It's
the first time I'm really talking to Corinth, so I'll
ask you what I mainly ask our guest on the show.
Can you tell me your first musical memory? Oh my god,
did I say it? Like Nard War? I love it? Yeah,

I know these guys are like, you never talk like this, Meir,
what are you doing? Okay, yeah.

Speaker 6 (13:33):
I So my dad is like a hobby musician and
he did like folk music in the sixties. He actually
opened a gig for like Pete Seeger once was like
his claimed to fame and he went on and you know,
and and and eventually became like a college professor. But
he would when I was born, he would like play music.

And my first memory is like singing with him. So
he would, you know, teach me what he guthrie folks
songs and you know, all kind of like seventies stuff.
So that's my first memory.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Where were you born?

Speaker 4 (14:11):
I was actually born.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
In Pennsylvania at State College when my dad was getting
his PhD. There.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Oh you're from Pa. Yeah, okay, so am I okay? Cool? Uh?
Can you tell me the first album that you purchased,
Oh my god, which is different from like an album
in your house that's already there, Like the first album
that you purchased with your own money put your moment on, yeah,
or stole in this group, you could have stolen it.

Speaker 6 (14:41):
There was like this, uh, this album with Pat Benattar
where she's wearing a straight jacket.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
The second album, not that you did in the night,
the second the one within me with your best Shoto
on it.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the big album. Yeah, I was like
I this for whatever reason, I was like I need this, Okay,
I put down hard money for that album, We'll See.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Your north Star. When you were growing up, like what
what voices did you gravitate towards?

Speaker 6 (15:10):
Definitely Pat Benatar, you know, like this is a big,
very muscular, you know, intense voice. Great singer for sure.
And yeah, I mean I love Dolly Parton. I loved
Aretha Franklin, you know, like the big voice with a big.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
Like range was always like so influential.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
I think, all right, carry I'll go to you. Could
you tell us what your first musical memory was?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I think mine is probably a little less cool
than Coorn. Sorry, I have this young dog. It's like
suddenly decided this was this is his witching hour. And
my parents did not have great taste in music. They
always liked the albums like there's the Eagles, who I'm

not a big fan of. But my dad also had
all their solo albums too. Okay, all right, definitely it
was my parents had a party, like not a party,
but like a hangout, and they were they had the
long run by the Eagles on and I needed to
go No, no, I like the Eagles, I like this,

I like that album. But I'm just saying like, so
I was I needed to go to bed. My parents
were like, time for you to go to bed, and
I was like, I would first like to perform Life
in the Fast Lane for you all, and which is
a song about like driving on the highway, like coke
down of your head, and.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
So it does.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
And I didn't know it was about that. I just
thought it was about it was a cool song about driving.
So I just sang along to the song and my
parents and their friends just humored me, and then I
went to bed. That's the first thing I remember musically.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
That's your first musical memory. Can you tell me the
first album that you purchased with your own money?

Speaker 4 (17:04):
Yes, it was Thriller Michael Jackson.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yes, I mean you know, it was the biggest album
in the world and everyone had to have it, and
I listened to it a million times.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
I see.

Speaker 7 (17:15):
That was the first album I ever owned, too. That
was the first my own personal album that I own myself.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
See to make you feel better, Carrie, Although I would
love to say something really cool, I've already been outed
in the press. The world knows that, like Neil Sadako
was the first forty five, So.

Speaker 7 (17:37):
I got you within the rain of jam though, yeah,
but mine was more bad blood, like it's.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Sorry, yeah, you know, so you know, I'm not that cool.
We need either, Carrie, so you're cool. At what point
for the both of you, are you realizing that you
have a voice or that a music is something that
you're interested in pursuing, not just something that casually that

just happens, you know, in your household.

Speaker 6 (18:09):
I think for me, I I moved to Olympia to
go to college.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
I went to like, you know, the Evergreen State College
when all of.

Speaker 6 (18:18):
The stuff was happening, and I have to credit Bikini
Kill and Brat Mobile playing a show, and I was
just I just got to be like right up close,
like right there when they were doing their thing, and
I was like, I want to do that. I'm going
to start a band, and I in my head I

started a band Like that night. I was just like
I'm in I'm doing it too, okay, you know, because
I saw them do it. They were my age and
they were they were just starting out, and so it
just like opened the door.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
He explained to me the whole idea of what Rygirl represents.
And is that a title that was invented by the
proprietors or again, was it some guy from Spin magazine
sort of searching for the next big thing and then said, okay,
this is right girl with a bunch of rs in it.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
No, it was.

Speaker 6 (19:14):
It was actually like a genuine movement, you know. It
was the title was you know, started by a young
woman in DC who was like, we need to start
an actual movement for women in the independent music scene
that that highlights women's roles and supports women and talks

about safe spaces for women. And there were meetings. You
could go to a meeting you could talk about all
these things. You could talk about, you know, being in
a bad relationship, sexual assault, like all of the kind
of like.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Taboo stuff at the time. At that time, at the time, there.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
Just wasn't another space for that stuff to come out
and happen. So it was it was very real.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
It was very.

Speaker 5 (20:01):
Taboo at the time.

Speaker 6 (20:04):
And you know, Kathleen Hannah was she was, you know,
very much like a cultural leader, right, she was. She
was like our poet because she was writing and the
stuff that she was an incredible poet, incredible.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
Writer and performer, you know, and very confrontational.

Speaker 6 (20:24):
But she was saying all the stuff that we were
all like so afraid to say ourselves.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay, So the first time I met Kathleen Hannah, I
didn't know I was mean, Like I didn't know anything
about rygir whatever. Like the Roots are just doing a
show somewhere up in Seattle. I forget the spot in
Seattle that we were playing. I know it was across
the sheet from the spot where they throw a fish.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Oh yeah, the showbox.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, we were at the showbox. Yeah, I'll say that. Yeah,
I met. Matter of fact, the first three times I've
met or seeing Kathleen, she was like cursing someone out
Like it was always like, yeah, and my manager, Rich
was they those two were like really good friends. So
he's sort of my manager who passed away. Him and

her really became good friends. And you know, he.

Speaker 7 (21:20):
Just liked, that makes all the sense. Oh my god,
you see it down hearing you describe. Oh my god,
that makes yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Oh that's how I know this shit, Like my shit
is all trickle down economics from Rich and him, him
and Kathleen were like talking whatever, Like I mean, but
she was just I've never seen that person, so just
wild and unhinged and just told what the fuck she
felt and all that. Like I was just like, yoh,
this is unheard of whatever. So that that was like
my introduction to her. She was cool and very nice

to us, but like in a second, she will she'll
bring the ruckus and I've just never seen that shit,
so you know, and I don't really be like, oh
intense or whatever, but that's what it was like for
me meeting her. So could you tell me what the
environment was, at least at the time in the Northwest
that really prompted this movement to really find its legs.

Speaker 6 (22:12):
Yeah, I mean, the you know, the Northwest was this
hotbed of like independent music. So there was all of
this like criticism of mainstream music that was you know,
that wasn't genuine, It wasn't you know, real art and everything.
And this music scene was about you know, like real

people telling their stories and making music available to everyone.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
So you know, five dollars shows and all that.

Speaker 6 (22:43):
But it was also this kind of like slam dancing,
rather violent culture at every show, and so there was
just not a lot of space for women to feel like,
am I going to be safe going to this show?
Am I going to feel like I you know, my
voice is heard? And the roles for women were still

like oh, yeah, you know, my boyfriend's in that band
and right, and and I just like went for yeah,
a foil. And so when you had a personality like
Kathleen who was like protagonist, right, so she was like
center stage at all times, it was like an arrow

like shot through our hearts. It was like, I I
want to be like that. Like I'm I was a shy, awkward,
kind of academic type kid. But I saw someone just
like take control of the stage be like I have
a story to tell and everyone in this room is
going to listen, And that just opened the door.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
It kind of took feminism and you know, even though
they're definitely you know, very fair critiques of Riot Girl,
like just like other early iterations of feminism, it lacked intersectionality,
and you know, it was it was largely white women,
although there was tons of women of color there as well,
but it definitely took feminism out of an academic context

and gave it a very like punk, very colloquial vernacular.
It was like here was you know, like a world
of punk had just come out of like a hard
core phase, especially on the West Coast, which was super violent.
So all of a sudden, it was like, what if
we took this movement, these ideas that are largely like
in you know, college textbooks, and just put it over

three courts and screamed it?

Speaker 4 (24:36):
And that was very liberating.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
I think to think that if you had a message,
it didn't necessarily need to be couched in a book,
you know, that it could be couched in a scream
or a yelp. And I think that just freed up
a lot of people to express themselves. I mean the
same way so much music just becomes like a source
of liberation for people, where it's like I have something
to say, and now I can say it over this

song instead of you know, writing out to say it
my way exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
So what's the point where you two meet each other
and sort of talk in terms of starting a group
in and starting the beginning of leader.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Kidney That was yeah, I was ninety four. I was
already living in Olympia to go to college as as well.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
Koran was.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I think you were in your senior year, and we
were both in other bands. Koran was in a much.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
More like.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Prototypical or archetypal, right girl band called Heavens to Betsy,
and I was in a band called Excuse seventeen.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
You know that was that like day those days.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
We were in that group too, correct.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
Kathleen, No, she was in neither she.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Was in but she was in other bands. I didn't
know if.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Everyone was in so many bands, right, Okay, yeah, And
so we just saw this kindred spirit and each other,
like you know, Koran was the only her band was
two people, Koran on guitar and a drummer. And then
I was in a band with a similar setup to
Slater Kinney what Slater Keny would be two guitars and drums,

and we just we thought, I know, I heard Korn
sing and I was like, I would love to be
writing songs with this person. And she heard me play
guitar and had the same feeling, and so we started
playing kind of as a side project, and then pretty
quickly that became what we wanted to do. It was
just a very innate chemistry.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Why was there always no bass players? I'm just just
because he didn't want them.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
It was.

Speaker 6 (26:40):
It was definitely like a thing in the northwest of like,
you know, how can we be different and not not like,
you know, sort of the archetype rock band.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, and neither of us played I think it just
was played bass and we just wanted to be this
like kind of tight unit. I think there's sometimes when
you're when something is perceived as a lack, it actually
can be a strength through like how can we find
a way into these songs without the traditional instrumentation? You know,
it kind of forces you to write differently. We detuned
to see sharp, so Korin was singing in this really

high register and you know, trying to get low end
sound out of for a guitar. And yeah, I think
we used it to our advantage. Although now in the
past couple of years. You know, obviously we like bass.
Early on though people always ask us like, do you
guys not like bass? I'm like, no, ninety nine point
nine percent of all music we listened to has bass.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Okay, how long have you been playing guitar? Carrie?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
I started when I was fifteen, so it has been
what is that thirty years?

Speaker 1 (27:43):

Speaker 4 (27:43):

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, Korin? How long have you been playing guitar?

Speaker 5 (27:49):
It is it's like thirty years because I started when
I was like eighteen, so.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Okay, well resisting the temptation and making a spinal tap
joke and I know that. And Janet joined the band
three albums later. But was it always the plan to
sort of have various musicians because I noticed that what
determines what your sound is probably also depends on the
musicians that are playing with you as well. So your

first drummer, Laura McFarlane, how do musicians come in the
group and how do they leave? Like is it just
a one and done thing or you guys are just
taking this a little more serious than the other.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Or no, I mean definitely just to say about Janet
and she's an integral part of the band. I mean
I wrote about it in my book. When she joined,
you know.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
We were like, yeah, that's when you jelled.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
Yeah, we were like, this is this is great?

Speaker 2 (28:40):
I would I'm I am sure as people assess us,
you know, ten fifteen years from now or you know,
they're like that will be the classic period of the band.
So you know they were never throw away.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Being the rock and Hall of Fame, I get it.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, she's a great drummer, so that Korn can talk
about Laura because yeah, she had brought her own avant
guarde style for sure.

Speaker 6 (29:01):
Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it is
like a little bit happenstance on our part, Like you know,
we went we did go to Australia thinking like, hey,
let's play music, you know, and there was there was
like this international underground music community for real, And we
wrote her a letter, we wrote like the record label

a letter and she wrote back like yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:26):
Let's play music.

Speaker 6 (29:28):
And that's just how it happened, and you know, and
then eventually it was like, well she did come over
and we played music here, and then she was like
I kind of need to go back to Australia.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
We're like, yeah, oh, okay, now that you're in the
game of being on an indie label, can you just
walk us through the process of how do you manage
to survive and be creative at the same time, Like
for those first few albums, did you still have to
have day jobs or was it like okay, a, you know,

we can sort of survive off of our club gigs
and what units that we're selling.

Speaker 6 (30:07):
I mean, I think there's there was definitely some back
and forth, you know, like there were still temp jobs.

Speaker 5 (30:14):
I think even after dig Me Out, I think that
we kind of put this.

Speaker 6 (30:20):
Like idea about being creative and being control of the
creative part of things as something that was really important
to us. So we were always willing to like do
whatever other jobs needed to be done, I think, just
to like make money or whatever.

Speaker 5 (30:34):
I mean, we weren't.

Speaker 6 (30:35):
We weren't not making money from touring, and we were
always wanting to figure that out and make it better.
We were always like ambitious about that. It just it
took us a while to get there.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
But what at what point are you absolutely full time
where ban I can pay my bills, I could put
cheese or my whopper and not break the bank like.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Probably dig me Out, I would say, So that's ninety seven.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
I mean, let's also be clear. I was living in Olympia.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
I think my rent was three ninety five a month,
so that doesn't take that much. You know, you can
you can play a couple of shows even as a
tiny band and make you know. So we were living
in small towns in like you know, sharehouses and stuff.
But dig me Out, I mean one thing at the
time on indie labels was these profit profit shares, which

you know, you just it was a split and people
actually bought records. So even though these these records weren't
going gold or platinum, you know, when dig me out
sells you know, seventy five thousand copies or one hundred
thousand copies and you have, you know, getting fifty percent
of profit share, like at the time, when you're in
your early twenties, that's that's definitely enough to live off of,

even if you're splitting it three ways.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
So by the time that you guys are out, I
also know that every major label was looking up and
down the aisles for the next big thing or whatever
I mean. So at no point, like you know, I
know you guys started off from Chainsaw and then the
lovely titled Kill All rock Stars. First of all, with

those labels, is that are there actual are these actual labels?
Are just like okay, well, what are we going to
call the label this time? Or like is that your
label and you guys have a distribution system? Or is
Kill All rock Stars like an actual label like sub
Pop is, and you know.

Speaker 6 (32:37):
Yeah, no, Kill rock Stars is definitely an actual label
and and that point I think was pretty critical for
us because after the first record came out on Chainsaw,
which was a label run by fellow musicians, but they
were like still touring that it was Jody and Donna

from Team Drash, So that was, you know, problematic. We
did have a time when we were corded by major
labels before Digging Me Out, and we considered it. You know,
we considered, we argued about it, we thought about it
like crazy.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
So I'm going to ask you a question, Okay, because
I knew this was a parallel story with hip hop
and with with with this movement, how at what point
are you able to really relax and really not live
in fear of the the idea of quote unquote selling out,

you know that that shadow following you, like the perception
of how we're because the thing is is that knowing
what I know now and again because I worked backwards,
I'm like, yo, like you know, and you can even
tell them that like with the videos that you're doing
now and all that stuff, like the humor element and
all those things, that you're really showing your personalities. Whereas

once I went back to the beginning and realized, like oh, oh, okay,
it started off here and then you guys slowly blossomed
into this thing. I can imagine that the perception of
who you guys were as a group or trying to
present also probably played, you know, decisions made by the band.

And I always wanted to know, like how the perception
of being seen as sellouts or being too successful? Should
we do this commercial or should we signed to this label,
this major label, like will we be the same? Like
how important is that perception playing in the band at

that period? And you're at least for the first three
or four.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
Records, it was huge.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I mean, I mean you were around during that time too.
I mean that it just was such a different beast.
You know, this idea that somehow, you know, a major
was going to you know, rob you of your artistic credibility,
that by aligning yourself with anything that was corporated or commercial,
you know, signified you know, something that was anti art uh,

you know.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
And there were a lot of arguments.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Treaties, you know, books, zines, you know, and very lively
polemic and a lot of real anger, I think from
people that never really took into consideration how anyone grew
up in terms of you know, if they had money
and that, you know, like it just never. It was
not a very nuanced conversation, but it was very real

because you cared about your friends and to sort of admit,
you know, I want something more than I can get.
This route was really tricky, so we just we really
didn't consider it. And I was probably the most hard
line at the time. I was like the youngest. I
was the baby in the band, and I think Korn

was probably you probably were the most interesting, am I right?

Speaker 5 (36:01):
No, Steel Magnolia is the termine years.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
I was always my eyes were always on the.

Speaker 5 (36:08):
Business route more than anyone else.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
Yeah, she's good about that. But you know, there were
also these horror stories.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
You know, you would for every band that had a
decent relationship with their A and R person, there was
someone that had signed to a major and been dropped,
you know, like a band like Spoon or like or
even coming from the Northwest, you see Nirvana, you see
this this guy that was tort supposedly, you know, tortured
by the fact that you know, he no longer felt

connected to who he was and his fans.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
So there were all these cautionary tales.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
So can I ask, and you know, maybe you can
give me better insight because I never knew what happened
at the end of it is do you think this
is precisely the reason why Helmet didn't blow up, like
the perception of because the thing is from an outsider.
And again, my outsider status was more studied the stats,
learn the names, but I never got I never got

into the music. So as far as I knew, I
knew there was a band that every label was salivating
over and they gave them a seventh figure deal and
it was Helmet, and they were going to be the
next big thing, and then I didn't hear shit from them.
And what's really weird was that when my band got
approached by Geff and we were going to go to
a whole nother label, we were ready to sign, and

when Geffen came along, we were like, Okay, let's let's
pull a Helmet and see what happens. And we called
their bluff and called this big ass Argantua number and
they took it, and then it's like, oh shit. But
the difference is is like we never felt like, oh,
we're selling out because we're taking a seven figure deal.
It was like more like, eh, we made it out
of poverty like that sort of thing. So you know,

people were like, ah, y'all made it. That was the
perception of it. But I always wanted to know, with
Helmet making, you know, this this seventh figure deal and
they're going to be the next Nirvana, Like, did that
effect their fan base and the support from the Northwest
from doing such a lofty move as in grabbing the money.

In your opinion, I think it could be.

Speaker 5 (38:12):
I think you could make an argument that people were turned.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Off by it, Okay, I see, I.

Speaker 5 (38:19):
Don't know. I don't know, I could I just at
the time, I think people.

Speaker 6 (38:23):
Talked about it, and you know, and and there was
like an element of people kind of turning up their noses,
you know.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Okay, so yeah, yeah, But I also think there was
such a it was such a time of anti pop,
you know, anti sheen, and things were so compartmentalized genre wise,
so it was like, you know, a band like Helmet
or jaw Box, who also you know, was a DC
band that went signed to a major You know, these

were these bands that were sort of admired for like
their roughness, you know, Helmet, with their cool like corrosive
sounding guitars and like this grit and.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
Then they get a bun to money. And at the time, of.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Course they're gonna go They're gonna work with a better producer,
they're going to work in a better studio, they're probably
gonna have nicer like equipment. And that's like, at the time,
was anathema to what people wanted to hear. Now people
might be like, oh, that's that's cool, like you know,
they're borrowing, you know, from other styles of music, or
you know, it has a little bit more of a
sparkle to it. But at the time that was like, oh,

there we go. We have evidence that that and and
that just went't happen Today.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Well, I do have a theory about it's less about that.
I get worried when people start upgrading, you know, probably
in the hip hop sense of that, you know, the Riza.
The reason why like hip hop fans hang on so
tightly to those very first six Wu Tang records is

because you know, they were made the lower the folklore
of Wu Tang, the fact that he created this in
his projects in Stapleton projects in Staten Island, and it
was a very dirty, dusty sound, and you know that
it got flooded out, and then of course you know,
the Wu Tang blew up. And then he upgraded, and
then they made their second album like in Los Angeles,

living in Beverly Hills, and the sound changed. It's too clean.
Same thing for Prince Prince making his stuff in his bedroom.
It's like the most perfect stuff in the world, Like,
I love that sound. But the second he upgraded and
got Paisley Park or whatever, and then the sound just,
you know, it sounded more vagacy to me and not

like raw, and so I get worried when people upgrade,
so which I guess that's probably the same perception that
the sound changes or whatnot. So by the time you
guys get past Me Out and like get to like

the hot rock or whatever, I mean, at what point
are you guys even thinking of like changing your sound
or trying new ideas. And how comfortable were you into
making that pivot from where you were when you first
started the band.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
We always I think I think that was the moment
that was exactly the moment that we made our first pivot,
that it just there was no way to repeat dig
Me Out like it had just come from such a
place of forcefulness that there's just no way to relax
to that record, Like it just starts on ten and
ends on ten, and it just has this you know,

this catharsis and it's just like, yeah, it's a long
kind of scream with some you know, different iterations. And
with the Hot Rock, we just knew we couldn't repeat
dig Me Out. We just knew like this, we can't
be part two. So I think we just created like
this much more introspective of landscape. And I think that

set us up correctly because people could not you know,
at the time, like you're saying, like critics were much
more there was. It was more centralized in terms of
like the power of like a critic, so that we
just didn't want them to say, like it's dig me Out,
but not as good or not as intense, and so
we made the Hot Rock.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I will also say that I have an envy for
artists that have the ability to really get their point
out and under like two minutes. Like again, if I'm
given the space to create like a Gargantuin, you know,
twelve minute art song, like I'm that guy, but if

you only give me two minutes to do something and
I can't. And the fact that, especially like your debut album,
like half the songs are like under you know, it's
like average length is like two minutes and ten seconds
or whatever. I mean. Is anyone teaching you about song structure?
Are you guys like purposely taken from like the Ramones
handbook or it's just like, Okay, the average punk song

has to be under this length to get so much
information out like lyrically and all that content wise, and
under such a short period of time, Like that's that's
almost a gift. But did it come from a place
where you guys purposely wanted to structure it like that
or you know? Or is it that as you got
further along in the recording process, then you guys are

realizing that like, oh well there's space for a bridge here,
or maybe a guitar solo there, or like stretch out
the songs, make them longer. But you know, like for
your first two albums, like the length of both of
them were definitely under a half hour. I think your
first album is at least twenty minutes. So just talk
about like the at least the songwriting process of how
you guys in the beginning were writing songs as opposed

to really getting in the rhythm of presenting these Songs's
the what's your work mode when you're creating songs.

Speaker 5 (43:56):
I think that so much of it was.

Speaker 6 (44:00):
Instinctual and jamming and and honestly at the beginning, there
wasn't a lot of even dialogue about like how can
we make this song better? It was just like, you know,
Carrie would start playing something. She'd play a riff and
I'd be like, keep playing that, you know, and and
start singing a vocal over it.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
You know.

Speaker 6 (44:20):
She's so much more of like a like a like
a melody writer with guitar, And I was like, I like,
go off of my vocal when I'm writing, Like that's
where the music comes from for me for the most part,
and I'm just trying to get I'm trying to start
a story and get a melody that is.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
Compelling and follow it down.

Speaker 6 (44:45):
And so there wasn't a lot of That's why I
think the songs are so short is because they're they
are almost like poems.

Speaker 5 (44:50):
When they worked well, I thought.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Do you start with the lyrics or or music first?
Like what's your comfort zone? When when a song comes
to you.

Speaker 6 (45:01):
It's it's the it's the vocals, it's the melody, just
gibberish usually at the.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
Beginning, yeah, of course, and then it's always.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
Just going back and back and making them try and
make the lyrics better and better, you know.

Speaker 5 (45:17):

Speaker 1 (45:22):
I do want to know what was the decision on
the Hot Rock Also, that's the one album that that
John didn't produce with you guys, what was the decision
to not work with him? I forget who produced the
Hot Rock record, But.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, it was this guy, Roger Mutino, who had worked
with a band from Hoboken, Yola Tango. Okay, yeah, and
and Yola Tango. We're definitely having a moment at the
time that they were people who we really admired, and
you know, we were like, who produced the last Yelatango record?
And for us, you know, again it was were trying

to get outside of our comfort zone. And John had
gone to the same college as all of us, and
you know, he.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Had worked with Bikini Kill and he you know, it.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Was just like, what if we brought in someone from
a slightly different world and he he was he lived
in Nashville, and you know, Yola Tanga was kind of
an anomaly for him. He worked with a lot more
singer songwriters, and he definitely approached our band a lot differently.
There's not a lot of it's not a very distorted
record in terms of guitars. He really, you know, was

I just remember, you know, yeah, it's a lot cleaner.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
And he was just like he just loved Korn.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Janet and I were just like, oh yeah, Like he
just was like, oh Korn, Korn, Korran and it was yeah,
and which is fine, but we had just never been
treated like that. And but you know, it's it wasn't
the first or it was the first time. It definitely
wasn't the last time where someone like singles someone out.
But it was just funny because you know, usually you're like, no,
we're a band, and he was like, now Korn.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
I loved that. I loved that.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
But we really liked working with Roger. But it was
just it was different, and I'm glad we did something different.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
I'm also you know, curious about the group dynamic, especially
with a group with a legacy is yours. How important
is it to maintain a personal friendship in lieu the
fact that you guys are also having a business, Like

I went through a period where like we started out
as best friends and then somewhere by the third record,
then it's like we're just business partners, and then all right,
two tour buses and then I'll see you at the
gig and then you know, like we're I'll say, in
the last three years like Treak and I really like
getting back to us really being friends again and not

just about business. But how can you how do you
balance that when you're also businessiness partners and friends? Like
how do you how's that balanced? Or is it just
like on the off season or was it why that
nine year hiatus happened?

Speaker 6 (48:11):
I mean I think that, you know, like we were
saying at the beginning, it feels like we've been on
a journey, right, and I feel like sometimes we've balanced things,
you know, like dig me out. We were all so young,
but we were figuring all that kind of stuff out.
How do we how are we in a band? How
are we friends? How are we running our own business?

How's it like worked really well? And sometimes it didn't?
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah, I think similar to what you're saying, Amra's like
it's it's shifted, you know, And I think there was
a time I think where we didn't intentionally you know,
care for it, like you know, nurture it, because you
just kind of assume, well, we can, we can do
all this. We can we'll be friends and we'll run
this business. But I think the business party you start

to realize, well, that has its own like politics to it,
and sometimes those do not overlap really well, and you
have to kind of protect both and as friends you're like, oh,
why are we favoring the business? You know, You're like,
which one are we favoring in that moment, and that
can get really volatile. I think when we came back
after the hiatus, and we did we all kept in
touch during that time, was.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
It an actual conversation like we should take a break
and an indefinite break, like do we take off for
five years or let's take off for a decade or well?

Speaker 2 (49:32):
I think Ian Mackay from Ugazia he claims he invented
the term hiatus or indefinite hiatus, and I wilso I'll
just give him credit for that, But I think we
just use that term because we weren't sure. I think
we thought we were done right korin didn't it felt
kind of like we were done. I didn't think so, oh,

we'll see here we go.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
So after the last gig, like was it like okay,
we'll talk or you know, when we went on how
you do? I think the Woods. The Woods was the
last album of that period. So after the end of
The Woods and I'm assuming that you tore it behind
it or not, I think, yeah, it was it was
the Woods. Yeah, then what like what happened a month

later or just a year or two go by and
you're like, oh shit, we haven't wrote a written a
song in a second or I'm gonna do No, it.

Speaker 5 (50:27):
Was like right, or I got pregnant.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
That's also okay, I totally forgot that motherhood also play Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
Korin was going to have another baby and I was.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
I anxiety like ruled my life back then, like it
just and I just had a ton of Yeah, I
mean we all know people who have anxiety. Like now
that I feel like that part of my life is
in check, I can see the amount of energy it
takes to be around someone that has totally like unmitigated

anxiety because you're just always you have to like suppress
all your own shit. Yeah, So that they can like
figure it out. And I think that was kind of
me in the band. You know, everyone was like, oh gosh,
you know, Carrie's dealing with all this stuff, and so
I think everyone was like, this is not worth it.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
You know. Korn's like, if I'm.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Going to leave one kid and be on tour, have
to bring a kid on tour, this better be worth it,
you know. And and it just it was a natural
breaking point, I think. So we were not like sitting
around like waiting to write other songs. It was like,
we're done.

Speaker 7 (51:34):
How did you you talk about your anxiety and kind
of working through that?

Speaker 1 (51:38):
How did you work through those struggles?

Speaker 4 (51:40):
I mean, honestly, I went to therapy. I just I
just did it.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
I just went and I was like I need help
with this, you know, and I just worked some stuff
out that felt like it was kind of you know,
Anxiety I think is just such a classic flip side
to depression. And when you start realizing that really you're
just expressing like fear and sadness in a way that's

like much more outward, you know, you start kind of
getting through it. And now, I mean, Corn you can testify.
I'm like, I'm way more chill.

Speaker 5 (52:11):
Way more chill.

Speaker 6 (52:13):
And that's part of like how we work through being
friends and business partners is because we both worked on
stuff on our own before we said, like, let's play
music together again.

Speaker 5 (52:26):
It's like we actually did some stuff, did some growing up.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Wait, I have a theory. I know we're going to
have to let you go soon, and I want to
get to the end. I'm trying to like rush through
each record. But I have a theory, all right. So
when I started doing my the deep Dive you Carry,
your book came out when twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah, say it was a year after year books. I
remember we did those co interviews.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yeah, those things together.

Speaker 4 (52:56):

Speaker 1 (52:56):
So I always had a theory that whenever I gravitate
towards a particular album and someone's cannon, it's always the
wrong album I gravitate towards like I love Hot Rocks
by the Stones, I love rat On hum By YouTube,
Like I'm always picking the wrong damn album and their thing.

And I'm afraid what is because again, all of your
albums are critically acclaimed, but for you personally, what is
your feeling behind one? Because I really loved of all
your records, one beat was my favorite, but what is
the like I want to know if I chose the
wrong album or not, Like in terms of like when
people come to me and say, yo, man, I love

the Tipping Point, I'm like, I fucking hate the Tipping Point.

Speaker 6 (53:43):

Speaker 1 (53:45):
I feel uncomfortable. But like, with one beat in your
or at least in your canon, what do you feel
that your your best work that represents you?

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Is you think like an artist is just gonna cop
to the record they don't like the most? Do you
think like YouTube wrote YouTube like rattled Home sucks like
or whatever it is like talk.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
About about rattling hum Okay in hindsight, no, no, no, I
still stand by it. But I usually when I talk
to fellow music snobs when it comes to my rock shit,
like I like Presents by Zeppelin when I should be
liking Physical Graffiti, but for some reason, I always liked that.
I like three minus three, that's favorite, But that's classic

right because that was also a departure record, So I'm
not saying the departure record. But in your canon, what
do you feel is your favorite? No, what is your
favorite and what do you feel your departure record?

Speaker 6 (54:45):
I mean one beat is one of my favorites because
it's it's.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Like I'm growing up then.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Yeah, it's because.

Speaker 6 (54:53):
It's like such a record of it's so emotional. It
was when I was right after I had my son.
So a lot of the songs are about like that experience,
about joy and about like the fear of you know,
having this thing that you love more than anything in

this kind of dangerous world.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Okay, Yeah, I think when we definitely stand by one
Beat for years, it was the album before that, All
Hands on the Bad One that I think we would
I mean, it's hard to assess because it was definitely
the first album where there was I think Rolling Stone
called it the dog Biscuit of our of our catalog. Wow,

And I remember just looking at those words dog biscuit.
I was like, Wow, that's harsh.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
How important is the critical claim to you? Not you know,
like having a like a perfect report card, Like are
you obsessed with keeping it on that level?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
No? Because we we we blew it up on the
on the last two records, people were like, oh, this now,
that's I mean, you know the Saint Vincent record that
she produced for uh, that's our definite departure record. I
like it too, And I think it's funny because now
people like it.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
It took it, you know, it took the year and
a half or two years.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
I mean I think people liked it at the time,
but it might not have been the same people that
liked dig Me out of One Beat. Like we we
got a lot of new fans on the last record,
and we have got a lot of new fans on
this record too, But the people that it was a.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Very experimental record. Yeah, well you guys came on the
show to promote, Like, yeah, I was, I was into it.
I was going to ask what was it like working
with Saint Vincent?

Speaker 5 (56:31):
She was great. We learned so much from her.

Speaker 6 (56:33):
I mean, she's so she's so she approaches a song
and songwriting with such a like a larger vision.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
You know.

Speaker 6 (56:43):
She she'll go in and and just you know, take
a vocal part that I was doing and like a.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
Certain register and be like, well what if you bump
it up to octaves?

Speaker 1 (56:50):
And I was like, wow, push yourself.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Yeah, she's such a maximalist.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
And I think, you know, like you were talking about
our early material, like there was there's a lot of
minimal there. There was a lot of just this kind
of like raw stripped back, you know, essence to the band,
and I think she just she created this density in
there that I thought was interesting. You know for us,
that's a new thing to explore. It's a different way
to get out some of the emotionality.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Okay, so with the Path of Wellness. Of course, this
is your first album without Janet and the band. So
first of all, what was the process like creating an album,
you know, in the face of the apocalypse. I'm curious

about anybody that's in a creative space like that starts
their process like around June July or whatever like. So
he explained that the process of creating this record, especially
the fact that I would assume that you guys started
in you know, somewhere in twenty twenty, where's your headspace?
And how are you not or were you using the

energy of the panic of the world to create this album?

Speaker 2 (58:05):
I mean a little of both. And we actually started
it so it we were supposed to go on tour
with Wilco last summer and you know, it was like
the end of the touring cycle for the Center Hold.
So it's you know, those like secondary tertiary markets were
just like amphitheaters in the summer. Yeah, yeah, the Shed tour,
and so we were imagining. We started writing some songs,

thinking like, oh well, maybe like road test some new material,
and it had this like very sort of like outdoors
feel like it was like we're making music to connect
with people in this in this like collective spaces, sunny days.
And then all of a sudden it was like the pandemic.
But we still had I think musically something left over

from that feeling. So I think we started in a
place where the music felt like it was trying to
imagine like togetherness, but then we were in this like
claw strophobic, fearful, insular space, you know, with so much
strife up front of different kinds going on around us,

you know, from protests to force you know, wildfires to
the pandemic itself, and so you get this kind of
like narrow, like very I don't know, just kind of
these lyrics that are like trying to wrestle with all
these things over music that has I think some lyft
to it. So it's a little bit of like a

I don't know, two things kind of meeting in the center.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
What do you think you guys currently are in Portland
right now? Or yeah, yeah, what exactly is going on
in Portland right now? Where it's like it's a side
of Portland I never knew existed, like politically, Like just
what's been going on the last year and a half?
Is it still happening? Like can you just basically explain

like what the environment is like there now?

Speaker 6 (01:00:03):
I think unfortunately, it's still pretty tense, you know, like
in terms of protesting and the different groups that are
drawn to Portland. I mean we have this we have
a police force that is out of date and I'll

put it wildly, they're very out of date and how
they're doing things right. We have these very radical left
wing protesters, and we also have this very rural white
conservative group that loves to come into Portland and just
cause trouble. So we still have a lot of these

different factions going on. So it's it's we still have
a lot of work to do here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, I think there's I mean there was definitely a
reckoning like there there was in many cities, and you
know there are groups here like don't shoot PDX and
care not cops that have been working for you know,
racial justice and you know, to get rid of like
dismantle like the police the way policing is now for years,

you know. And then of course that coalesced with the
George Floyd Breonna Taylor protests and the BLM movement, and
that was what was happening last summer. But then you
also had a faction that we're not really aligned with
that that were just there to like function up. And
so there's the people that are still kind of protesting,
tend to be not in the BLM movement, tend to

just be a little more in the Antifa thing. And
it's not that I disagree with everything Antifa stands for,
but it is it's the city is has a long
way to go, I think, for like figuring out how
to coalesce some of these ideas and actually make progress.
But luckily there are people who have been working at
us for a while that hopefully will kind of have

their voice heard now that I think are hopefully having
a platform to make changes. But yeah, I mean, I'm
sure people have been calling anyone I know that lives
in Portland, had everyone like texting them like what is
going on?

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
It just seemed so crazy for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Yeah, I was shocked. I was like, well, I had
to readjust my list all right, before I let you go, Carrie,
I got to ask you have you met her yet?

Speaker 6 (01:02:21):

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Okay, let's retall. Let's recall when we were on the
Tonight Show.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
How could you waste such an opportunity?

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
I know, but that was so stressful because remember she
was running late. Yeah, she was running late, and then.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
And who okay, so you know there's there's a special
place in Carrie's art for Madonna the twelve years old
and Carrie is you know, and you know at the
time when we signed and changed, well not changed to
our management when Rich passed and we sort of merged

to Maverick management. Of course, you know, guys was running
it and kind of you're down with guy, then you
might be down with Madge as well. So, knowing how
much of a fan that carry was, I was like, well,
I gotta make this shit happen, because you know, the
group was on the show when Madonna was the couch guest,

and so even in touring, like you guys were touring
in Australia whatever, and I found out she was there too,
and I no.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
You hooked us up.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
It was That was a great night we went and
saw her in a tiny club that was the best,
and so I that's all I want you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
I'm already delivered. I'm so grateful.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
So you are you one of those people that like
you don't want to meet your idols.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I mean, I'm fine with that proximity going to You're
satisfied with this.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
You have more than delivered. I am. I'm grateful. I
don't know what else we could do at this point.

Speaker 7 (01:03:53):
Yeah, it could be anti club acted. I get it,
I get it. I was reading Carrie. A good buddy
of mine, buddy, Craig Jenkins, he interviewed you guys last
it was last year. It was for the for the
for the new record, and you were at the interview.
You're talking about Heart documentary or not a documentary, I
guess the Anne Wilson.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
Oh, the biopick.

Speaker 7 (01:04:14):
Yeah, yes, biopick. Yeah, where's that at? What's the status
on it?

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
We're casting right now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
And as I was telling, as I was telling Greg,
it is so hard because I mean, you say the
word biopick and everyone, like any music fan, just like
braces themselves because they're like, oh god, you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Know there's there's a line.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, there's some great examples, and there's some ones where
you're just like, how did they cast this person?

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
This is not about music, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Wrote it, and you know, I hopefully it's a different
perspective because I've come up in the Northwest, Like I
love writing about music. I'm trying to make it for
music fans as much as for movie fans. But we're
casting and we've got to get it right. So that's
where it's at.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
That's so dope. Good luck. Wait, I got one more
last one before we go. Did I not hear a
rumor that you were considering of turning your uh your
book into a series, a TV series.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Or I tried, I made You've got so far as
to make the pilot and then and then the network
didn't pick it up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Wait, there's a pilot.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
Yeah, I'll send it to you. It was cool. But
I'm anyway, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Excited for you because you've got this amazing movie coming out.
It's coming coming right, Okay, fine, but anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Yeah, it comes out. It comes out July second, and
I'm excited.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
So we're excited.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I'm not I'm not trying to deflect. Wow, how could
you pitch your own movie on I mean, what the heck,
cool man, trust me, That's why I got Disney for.
I like to thank you for coming on the show.
I appreciate it, and you know I'm I'm an admirer
of of of of you guys and and and your band,

and thank you for blessing on this on the show,
ladies and gentlemen, Sleeper Kidney or Quest Left Supreme U Bill, Yes, sir,
congratulations on your success as well. And we're all successful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
It's fantastic, Tony Well, it's been an honor to be
on this show with you, you know, and with all
of you.

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
Thank you, Yeah, thank you for hanging out with us.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
This is fun, all right, Sugar Steve Bill and this
is Quest Love and we'll see you in the next
go round.

Speaker 8 (01:06:31):
Hey, this is Sugar Steed. Make sure you keep up
with us on Instagram at q l S and let
us know what you think and who should be next
to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to
our podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
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