S1E3 - Dead Man’s Party

It may be a dead man’s party, but it sure is a good one. In this week’s rewatch, Kat and Dom dive into the beginnings of the parabatai bond, some steamy Clace moments that spark the question of “what is love, really?”, and the moment that broke Dom (literally). 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning Down, Good morning Cat. How are you. I'm good.
How are you doing fantastically? I like that we're changing
scenery per episode, which I think is fun. You know,
we're working it out, we're experimenting, figuring out what our
setups are going to be, and currently I'm going a
blanket for it and I'm very much enjoying the experience.

(00:20):
It looks great, it looks great. At what age do
we stop making blanket for it's just for fun? You know,
that was a silly thing. You know when they say
growing up to trap, this is exactly what they're talking about. Like,
when did we stop just being like I'm going to
take eighteen pillow, say I'm gonna make myself a little
a little hidey hide and I'm going to watch some
movies in there, and that's going to be my day.
I mean, I've never stopped making blanket for it, so

(00:42):
maybe I've just never grown up. I'm proud of you.
I'm proud of you. That was the correct choice. I
want that as a voice note, I'm proud of you. Yes, yes,
Before we dive into anything, I am Dominic Show and
I'm Katherine McNamara, and welcome back, Come join us as

(01:04):
we returned into the shadows. We'll get that eventually, we're
going to get it one of these episodes. We're going
to get it perfect. We have actually started to see

(01:47):
some of some of the viewership. I guess that's the
wrong listeners. We're starting to see some of how people
are receiving the podcast response, response and feedback, listeners and
viewers all together. If you can think of a word
for all four of those things, please let me know. Rate,
view and subscribe, rate, listen, subscribe. But the response has
been so fantastic, So this is the first time that

(02:08):
we've seen how you've responded to it, and I just
want to say thank you all for listening because it's
really lovely. You know, us and the producing team here
at Propagate and My Heart were all really behind this
um and we wanted to do something quite special and
it seems like us and you guys are on the
same page. So that's really wonderful. So thank you for listening. Yeah,
and we've been telling everyone at Propagate and My Heart

(02:28):
and you know, all the all the way at the
letter what angels each and every one of you are,
and you're just absolutely living up to your legacy, and
I just wanted to you know, Domin, I want to
extend the biggest thank you for listening and for your
feedback and responses, and we'll have some more new featureats
for you all to maybe participate in very soon. Um So,

(02:49):
where we left off last week, we had left poor
Simon upside down and we were all in sort of
a bit of a panic as to how to get
our brave, awesome, handsome Monday back, although jas would never
have met any of those things, and we're sort of
had a loss of what to do next, and that
leads us directly into episode three, which is what we

(03:12):
will be talking about today, called dead Man's Party. The
air dates of which was January, Good Grief, Long Time Ago,
over six years ago, Unbelievable, which was written based on
the books by Cassie Claire, with the writers of the
episode being Ad Dector and Marjorie David, and it was
directed by the lovely Andy Walk and it was the

(03:34):
first time we got to meet him, which was fantastic.
Andy and the um cat tell us a little about
what we can expect in this episode. So in this episode,
the group takes an unexpected detour into the realm of
the Undead, Clary, Jace, Alec, and Isabel must hatch a
rescue plan that takes them into the heart of vampire Lair.

(03:57):
With Simon being held captive at the Hotel de more Claire,
he pleads with Jason elegant Isabel to help her rescue
her best friend. As the team readies for the mission,
Jace helps Clary learn more about her shadow Hunter powers,
Isabel turns to her favorite see Ye for intel, and
Alec begins to question Jace's motives and his place in
their partnership. Meanwhile, a very scared Simon gets a very

(04:20):
up close and personal with Camille, the leader of the
vampire clan. So much happening, and already episode three, so much,
so much already going on. We're meeting new people, we're
meeting new new species in our world, and a lot
happened behind the scenes of this episode as well. We'll
get into that later. I was rewatching it two days ago.

(04:43):
I was dealing with jet lag from England to l
A and I was rewatching it and I got like
full body shivers because you can see when it happened,
or you won't see as an audience member ever when
it happens. But I can see when it happens, and
I'm like, oh, yep, that's it. That's the moment right there.
But we will get into that later on. So, Cat,
why don't you tell us some of the fun facts

(05:04):
about shooting this except for fun fact number two, I'm
gonna talk about fun fact number two. Um, So, we
shot this episode in ten days, from the nineteenth of
June to the twenty nine of June. Oh June, Oh boy,
was starting to get warm in Toronto, it was. And
this was pre um temperature control in our studio as
well as Yeah, we'll get into that more an episode five. Yeah,

(05:27):
episode five, it was bad. That's I remember. It was
five is when it got real bad. But we'll we'll
discuss that this particular scene between myself and Matt Dadario
that really uh caused a turning point in the Shadow
Hunters lore and what we perceived for anyway, and let

(05:49):
us some set changes in season two, but we'll sort
that out later. There's a few goofs in this episode. Uh,
you know, we were still learning how to do all
the vampire freezing and incantos and speed and such, and
so there's a point I guess in which Simon's hand
changes position. And there's another point where we've got some
jumping bloody mary glasses. I don't know. I've never caught

(06:11):
those things, and I've seen the episode a few times.
One of the best things about being honest like a
supernatural esque show, though, like anytime someone points something like
that out, we can just be like, a warlock did it.
It was a warlock is magic the best it exists
in our world. So just don't, you know, don't mess
around with it, like it's this is our excuse and

(06:32):
that's You're gonna have to be happy with that, and
that's where we live. Yes, another fun fact, this is
the first episode that we really get to talk about
parabotite and we really get to dive into that anthology
and what that means, and we get into it more
an episode for and I know that was something that
you and Matt dealt with the most, because you really

(06:53):
aren't the only kind of major parabtide that we really
dive into. We get into it a little bit with
later on, but it's more so you and Matt kind
of carried that that mantle as it were, throughout the
whole year. And that, Yeah, we do get into that
in season one, don't we with Luke and his Parabitie.
But yeah, it's it really is just Matt and I,
which was which was really good fun for us. You know,

(07:16):
we got to, like we've discussed a few times before
in this in this podcast with Simon sort of taking
towards Simon and David taking the hands of like, this
is what the vampires are going to be, this is
how they're going to move, this is how they're gonna look, like,
this is our responsibility to develop this. Matt and I
had the responsibility of developing what the Parabitie relationship was
even again coming down to like how you say parabati

(07:38):
and Matt and I both pronounced it parabitie sort of
almost instinctively, but we actually had that conversation with Cassie,
and when Cassie wrote it, I think she had it
in her head as parabat I. I think that's how
she had it pronounced in her head. Um, and it's
just interesting that Matt and I got to a different pronunciation.
But yeah, this was sort of the first time we

(08:00):
get to like anticipate and sort of foreshadow what this
relationship is going to be and how important it is
and explain it to the audience. And then what I
did notice, which I think is interesting, which I don't
think we'd really touched on. I don't think we touched
on in this episode, and correct me if I'm wrong,
But we do see the first sort of opportunity of
Alec feeling what Jace is feeling, and it happens later

(08:23):
on when we get to that section. I'll sort of
explain it, but you do see a moment where and
it's quite cool. I wonder if it was just by accident,
because I don't remember having this conversation, but there's Matt
in the foreground and me in the background, out of
focus here, and we both sort of do the same
thing with our faces just for one just for half
a second, and it's a cool moment for us because
that becomes so it becomes important later in the show.

(08:47):
So this was Yeah, it was a fun opportunity for
us to sort of explore and play with that relationship.
And that's what's so great about this is there's so
much mythology to the show, and so much of it
I think why all of us had so much fun,
especially in this first season as we got to kind
of create the rules for the mythology and how you know,
we read the books and you know what it's supposed

(09:08):
to be in its scripted and all of this, but
then the physical kind of manifestation of it, when you're
living it out, it becomes different and it's it's a
fun thing to get to create with a group totally totally,
and I think, you know, another fun point for audiences
who don't know necessarily or or maybe who are unfamiliar

(09:29):
with what sort of set life is like. You can
have the best laid plans of myce men ready to
rock and roll, and then you get to set that
day and there's a tree that nobody noticed, or their
ground is too hard, or you know, something is different
and we weren't expecting that, and all of a sudden
we have to change the scene kind of on its heads.
And we're like, okay, well, instead of you saying this,

(09:51):
this is being said by this person. We're going to
do this, We do this, and we're just going to
switch it because we especially with a show like Shadow
Hunters where we sort of fifty fifty were in the
student we were out on location. When you're on location
you don't have that much control. You have some control,
but you don't have that much control of you know,
what's going on. Some days you turn up and there
have decided to fix the road across the street, and

(10:13):
that's the noise that you're going to be hearing the
whole way through. You know, you just have to sort
of roll with it. This this episode, I think was
very fifty fifty on location, and it was our first
big nighttime shoot, like first proper two in the morning shoot.
I think it was. It was I mean, since we
had done you know, all the stuff in the nightclub,
it was it was one of our first shoots that

(10:34):
we were up all night outside in a graveyard that
we all got very familiar with. Yeah, we got very
familiar with this graveyard. I think outside is more what
I mean, because you can you know, when you're inside
and you're shooting two or two in the morning, you
don't really have any reflection of that time passing because
you're stuck inside. You know, you're just working inside. When
you're outside, it starts to get colder, and the bugs

(10:56):
start to come out and they want to buy and
you know, the mood just it's at one point because
it's it's cold, and it's dark, and everyone's and we're
filming in a graveyard and it's weird. You know, I think.
Wasn't this also the episode that we all spent so
much time in the pandavan trying to keep warm, and
the fumes started to get to the fumes. That's right,

(11:16):
that is so I do remember that. So the Panda Van,
as as cool as it was to see on screen,
it had some leaks. Boy, had some leaks. It's not
a big deal, but it smelled like gas. It smelled
straight up like petrol in that car, and if you
sat in it for too long you started to get
a little loopy. We got the giggles. We got the giggles,

(11:38):
which we were all, you know, accidentally high, which is
not ideal. Cat Again, this being your fora why didn't
you tell us a little about some of the important
book to screen movements. Yeah, So as we dive in,
there's there's only a few differences. As we have discussed.
We get to talk about Parabatie this episode, which is fantastic.

(11:59):
Also one of our biggest locations and something that really
comes in in the book is the Hotel de More,
which it tends to be the central vampire layer in
New York City, which is an old hotel that's under construction,
and it's not only is it a vampire layer, but
we discovered that the vampires are hedonists but also have

(12:23):
a proclivity for stealing ancient artifacts and artwork and other
is it stealing if you rob your own grave. That's
this is a whole thing, right, Stealing, collecting, attributing, gathering, acquiring. Yeah,
one of the sort of the inevitables of eternal life

(12:46):
as you are going to hoard. And I think it's
whether you hold something that's valuable or whether you hold
something that's not valuable, and they do tend to I
think in most iterations of the vampire story there are
these sort of arc ach antiques that live within their
world because and this is another thing that's very cool

(13:06):
is especially with things like vampires, is we get to
take on like the last possible version of a story
that's existed for you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds
of years, and we try and stick to some of
that law, or we poke fun at previous law, or
we create our new law or whatever it is. But
as a general rule, the story sort of stays the same.

(13:27):
So you know bran Brand Stoker's Dracula lived in this
gorgeous castle in Transylvania, but had collected all of these
sort of a kuchrama over the course of you know,
the hundreds and hundreds of years that he's been alive,
and we we still have that law in our show.
Those vampires still do that same thing, which I think
is for me. That was something that was really cool
about working on a show like this is it is modern,

(13:47):
and you know, we've got new tech and we've got
these swords and jackets and you know, all of this
new stuff. But also we're and we do talk about
a lot. It's a war that's been being fought. Since
we have a date for it. What is it looking
better in black than the widows of our animal? Since
I think it's twelve thirty four, twelve thirty four, I

(14:09):
was off by quite a way, by quite a way,
by about six years, It's okay. Twelve thirty four should
have been an easy one to remember as well. One
it's one to three four is what it is. That's
an easy day. Do you want to try and connect
your headphones? Sweets? Now? Are you sure, all right? Deck
is over there. Um. Also, as we dive in, we

(14:30):
get to see a little bit more about Clarie and
Simon's relationship, and you know, Clari's losing all of her
people and she's lost Simon. She has lost her mom
at this point, and in essence, she's lost Luke. And
we start to learn about some of the Clave rules
as they you know, figure out how to get Simon back.

(14:51):
And I feel as though we always had this discussion
of how this particular shadow Hunter team of Isy, Jason, Alec, Yeah,
probably tend to be the more rambunctious of the shadow
Hunters because all the rest of the shadow Hunters tend
to seem to really follow the rules and do their
job and clean up our mess that we create. We

(15:13):
used to talk about that a lot, didn't we. Like
towards the end of season two, we'd be talking to
sort of like, you know, the background performers are also
known as extras or supporting artists sort of depending on
where you're from and what you're used to, and we
would talk to them and we were like, you know
what we can add in here is you guys can
be pissed at us because we're just constantly going out
and breaking the rules, and you guys follow the rules,

(15:34):
and they're just like this fucking team. These guys are
the worst. That's so they're just constantly causing everyone trouble.
Like every time there's a problem, it's always jays Alakan
is he always, always, always, And then with the addition
of Clary's jazzy and Clary, it's we're just you know,
we're that sort of irritating group at school and nine

(15:55):
times out of tend it just happens to work out
for us, but not not necessarily virtue of us doing
what we're supposed to do, more by virtue of us
falling and landing on our feet exactly, were by virtue
of oh, this accidentally just happened and fell into ours
and it's wonderful. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you know, I
feel as though, as as the team becomes more cohesive

(16:17):
a little bit, we gained some skills, I think, so
we learned some things. We do learn some things, and
we learn how to sort of work with each other
a little more. And the and you know, again it's
that same thing that you were talking about earlier, is
we're still sort of finding our feet within the show
at this point as well, So you know, later on
when we really do delve into what this you know,

(16:38):
parabitie relationship is, for example, then we get to rely
on that more is like, this is what our law is.
This we've set up sort of the ground base, and
then you know, it's not really until it's actually my
favorite episode that for me as a performer that I've
ever been in this episode two, Season two, episode three,
with that whole thing that happens, which obviously we're going
to talk about later on further down line with the podcast,

(16:59):
but that was one of my favorite episodes because that
was that was a Parabti episode. Actually think it was
cooled Parabti. It was Parabtie last Yeah, parabit I lost, Yeah,
and it was that was the first time that we
got to like, great, let's hone in on what these
things are, and I wonder if the audience, you know,
let us know if if this these are things that
you sort of saw and noticed throughout watching the show

(17:19):
is we did get to kind of fine tune things.
So season one was very like we're going to introduce
the vampires and we're going to set up sort of
the bedrock of law. This is sort of the rough
things that we're going to follow, and then we introduced
Simon into the world and he gets to sort of
explore that is more drastically, and you get to explore
being a shadow hunter is sort of from the ground up,

(17:40):
you know, and we get to do that more and
more as the seasons went on, which was which I
think is one of the beautiful things about doing a show.
You know, if we'd have ended at season one, which
you know, we will talk about that later on, but
there's so much that we wouldn't have been able to explore,
which would have been a shame. And we didn't know.
We didn't know for like six months and soft filming

(18:00):
season one if we were coming back for two. We
had no idea. It's a really long time. It was
a long time. Yeah, we had a long wait. Speaking

(18:24):
of lore and the show and anything else. Something else
I think is interesting about this episode is the parallel
because we do explore Parabi for the first time, but
we also explore Simon and Clary's friendship, which there are
a lot of parallels between the two, and you know,
if it's one very specific one for sure, well indeed,
but as we dive in, we get to see another

(18:47):
aspect of the lore, which I realized now in season
one was such a huge deal, but we had so
many big deal things since then. The Mortal Cup was
such a huge part of season one, and it is
everyone wanted the Mortal Cup and it was this literal
holy grail of swords and Clary was the key. So
people kept, you know, taking people that Clary loved or

(19:10):
threatening elements of Clary's life and she didn't even know
where the Cup was for the longest time until episode six,
I believe. But we'll get into that later. But foreshadowing, Yeah,
we're going to do a whole bunch of foreshadowing because
we're not very good at staying on topics. No we're not.
But okay, back on top Let's see first is how

(19:32):
to get Simon back. So we're navigating the shadow world.
We're learning about vampires. This is our vampire episode in
a sense. And as we're learning about vampires, we cut
back and forth to the Vampire Lare itself and the hotel.
The more and we get to see, but we also
learn about Oh, this is one of my favorite elements
of the Mortal instruments. World in general is the sort

(19:53):
of spectrum that Cassie Claire has set up of the
mythological creatures that this in our world. And this is
something that's so unique to this universe is that all
creatures and all beings exist on a scale from angel
to human to demon, and every aspect and every creature
is sort of a different combination thereof. So humans are human,

(20:17):
angels are angels, demons or demons, but then in between
you have shadow Hunters, which are half angel half human.
You have seas which are half angel half demon. You
have werewolves and vampires, which are humans with a demon disease.
And so as you go through every kind of creature
that you encounter across all of it has different elements

(20:38):
of these and that plays so much into our story
as we move forward in the different ways in which
shadow Hunters navigate and deal with and handle being sort
of the demon police as it were, of this world
totally totally. And then you're right, and then later on
we get to deal with the sort of racial hierarchy
that lives within our world, and we touched on it

(21:00):
sort of briefly in this episode with with the introduction
of Melion, who will get his own proper introduction in
a second, but he does briefly mention you know that
the Shadow Answers don't respect the sea leaves as much
as they should be respected. They sort of used more
as like a tool within within the Shadow on to
world until later on. Because each one of these creatures

(21:23):
and and elements and combinations thereof, and warlocks as well,
which I forgot to mention, which are half human half demon.
It all manifests itself in in different ways in their
kind of physicality and their abilities, and the different physical
and magical expressions of the different combinations of blood, which
is part of what plays into Valentine's experiments as well,

(21:44):
as he's trying to create the perfect soldier, the perfect
shadow hunter, the perfect weapon, and certain things you just
don't mess with in the world of magic, yeah, or
the world of Blood. So, since we touched on it,
and it's sort of getting off our chronology here a little,
but since we mentioned it, let's introduce, which is very

(22:06):
exciting to me, the wonderful Mellion number one Seeley, who
has played by the incomparable Jade, who was one of
our sort of very first Jade and David one of
our very first guest stars who became very much a
part of our family. They were a part of the
group and still have been. A lot of people who

(22:27):
listened to this podcast have seen, you know, us with
Jade at the conventions and traveling around Europe and this,
that and the other. And Jade became a part of
the furniture very quickly, which which was really beautiful. It was,
and he was also I mean, he's just such a
beautiful soul and a wonderful person. But also he was

(22:47):
sort of our tour guide around Toronto for a lot
of it as well. You know, he showed us all
the fun spots and gave us lots of things to do,
and took us to music things and art shows and
you know, all of these things that he does being
a part of the local kind of artistic community in Toronto,
he welcomed us into that and then I think made
us feel so at home and gave us more of

(23:10):
a community really in a place that we were living
that none of us knew anything about. Totally, totally, totally.
I do have to say the first time I met
Jade was just so indicative of who he is and
how wonderful he is as a human, and how committed
and dedicated he was to this character and to creating
it to the best of his ability. As you know,

(23:31):
when we're making the show, we're running around the studio
like chickens with our heads cut off and running from
place to place and kind of between fittings and stunt
rehearsals and different scenes and whatever administrative stuff we need
to do. And I remember I was racing from I
think a fitting back to set and I walked by
and there's this guy sitting at one of the tables

(23:54):
reading City of Bones. I think he was even in
his armor that they had just tried on him of
the first time. And I looked at this guy and
I was like, oh, my gosh, that looks like Melliorn.
And he looks up and he goes clary. He's like
a cat. I'm so sorry. Hi. We just had this
moment where I saw each other first as our characters

(24:16):
and then instantly fell in love with how much we
both suited. You know, this thing, this image that we
had in our heads from the book of these characters,
and then instantly just his effusive warmth envelopes you. Yea yeah,
it does. Jade is this is this sort of wonderful,

(24:37):
like very sort of silly in his own right. He's
just this wonderful, sort of ethereal creature who's entirely unapologetically himself,
not that he would ever need to apologize for it,
because he's just the loveliest human being alive. So yeah,
he just sort of exists in his own like branch
of the world. And I love that about him. It's
my favorite thing about Jade is he just is. He

(24:58):
just did He just does him. He just is Jade,
which is really wonderful. Absolutely, and he has suched this
wonderful way about him that and I've seen him do
this at Carma cons and with you know, each one
of us as well. He has this ability to just
be so encouraging and so loving to every person he meets,

(25:19):
even if he's just meeting someone for the first time.
Is he is very good at making you feel like
you're the only person in the world and that just
for that little brief moment that he the only thing
that matters is your connection in that in whatever it
is that you're talking about, and he remembers it. He
remembers it in stores, and I've seen the same thing
where he does, you know, interactions with fans all over

(25:40):
the world, and he remembers everyone and every conversation he's
ever had with them, which I wish I could say
that about myself. I do my best, but there are
times where I'm like, you know, this is it's done
four conventions in three days, and I'm like losing my mind.
I don't know what's what, but Jade knows. Everything is
like a rollerdex of like, oh I remember you, this
is you had this issue and like how's your brother?

(26:01):
And what I'm like, that's insane. He has such a
huge heart and such a wonderful presence and is just,
as you said, ethereal and kind of timeless in a
way that Selee's are. So he's just he just is Melane.
Moving on from that, so our Jade love Fest, a

(26:25):
Jade LoveFest, we get to this cool thing, which we
haven't really done before in the show. This is sort
of the first time that we see it where we're
in the institudent. We briefly we're talking about this earlier.
We're like, what are we going to do? This is
our plan? Blah blah blah, and we're sort of having
our round table moment and you get to see the
interactions between Izzy and Jason Alec and it the way

(26:46):
it was written, I really like because it's this is
just normal conversation for us. This is just like, you know,
we're talking about the vampires and we're like, oh, no,
that's Camille's outfit, right, there's local guys. They're just down
the street. Like it's we know these things, like it's
just normal, Like you know, we have our little like
our Yellow Pages version of like, yeah, it's the hole,
tell them what we know where this is. It's not
a big deal, or like what about the Seelies And

(27:08):
we're like, we know the Seelies in and out and up,
like oh, the Seilies are the anything with half angel,
half demon, it's the Elves, fairies, Nixxies, pixies, like it's
you know, and it's just this normal conversation for us.
And that's something that I thought was really cool because
we we got to explore it via Clary and we

(27:28):
got to tell the audience via Clary. But for the
three of us, this is just this is just our lives.
This is normal, Like, oh, that's Bob he's the postman.
He comes every Wednesday and Saturday, like it's that natural,
like you know, oh, it's the fairies or it's the seilies,
or it's the vampires, like it's it's just our life.
And I thought that was really cool, and I remember
really liking how that was written because it was a

(27:49):
very natural, like sibling conversation between the three of us there.
And also during that that one little section um where
we're around the able, we get one first little foreshadowing
glimpse into who Alec is repressing and who he is
forced to repress within himself, and it's actually is he

(28:11):
who who brings it up? Doesn't Alex say something like, oh,
we all have our apparently Selee's have their thing or
whatever you like Seelee's and they're sort of teasing each
other and she says, well, we all have our things,
don't we. And it's that first at all moment where
we're like, huh, who is Alex? Who? What's Alex thing?
We don't know what Alex thing is? Really like, it's

(28:32):
you know, we know he's a shadow answer, we know
he's talented, we know he's caring and loving and obviously
very handsome, but what is this thing that's being hidden?
And more importantly, maybe most importantly, why why does he
feel like this part of him needs to be hidden?
Food for thought for later on. We're planting the seeds.
We're planting the seeds, but there's a whole episode that

(28:53):
happens later on, but this is the first time that
we get to see that, like, huh, what was that?
What does that mean? Absolutely, and now everyone has their
marching orders and off we go on mission is. He
goes to talk to Meliorn. And one of my favorite
scenes that we got to do in this first season

(29:14):
was us in the graveyard, you, Me and Matt, because
I think it was sort of the first time that
we got to have that triangle really play out in
a very interesting way. You know, the Clarie and Alec
go ahead to head putting Jace in the middle of going, Okay,
I have to manage both of these personalities, and I
care about both of these people, and they're both right

(29:35):
in a way, so how do we sort this out?
But also we get to bring in another book element,
which is the fact that shadow Hunters store weapons in
churches and graveyards and crypts because they're all over the
world and if you need to find a demon, I
need to store the angelic tools on consecrated ground. Yeah,
we have your little cash somewhere where you know it's

(29:56):
going to be safe. This is an interesting one as
well because we had a couple of lines in the
beginning of how shadow unders make money or how they've
survived in a world that exists, you know, entirely unaware
that that they are a part of it. And we
had lines early on and I can't remember why they disappeared,
but we had these lines that I thought were so

(30:18):
cool of like, well, how does shadow unders make their money?
Like how do you look at all this tech? Like
how does this happen? You're like, well, the head of X,
Y and Z bankers a shadow hunter and they you know,
you look at a photo or a painting of them,
and you can see like a tiny little bit of
ruins sticking up from you know, the guy who founded
Chase Morgan Bank or whatever it was, you know, and
these cool little things. And this was that this was

(30:39):
our what we ended up doing our sort of fora
into Like we used to work with the churches because
all churches or religions recognized demons and angels and a
version of heaven and a version of hell and whatever
it is. And we used to work with them, and
over the years they forgot about it because we're good
at what we do, and they just stopped encountering demons
as like a regular thing. Which is why this is

(31:00):
becoming such a big deal that the demons are resurfacing,
because you know, it means we have to do our
job better we do. Indeed, I also think, correct me
if I'm wrong. I think the chest that we pull
out of the grave, there is another one that was
used in the movie. I think that's another prop that

(31:21):
was used in the movie. You're right, it was because
we were still using the swords and the other kind
of weapons and they had that. They actually used that
same crypt for this the parallel scene in the film.
But I believe in the film it was in set
in the floor of an actual church as opposed to
being a freestanding kind of grave in the middle of

(31:43):
the graveyard. Remember this graveyard, by the way. I don't
know if you remember, but the ground was very soft
and you thankfully we're in lovely steel toad combat boots.
I was still in eight inch Isabel stilettos, and what

(32:04):
that led to was me basically aer rating the graveyard
as as I walked through and poking holes, which would
have been fine, generally speaking, until I looked closer and
saw that a lot of the graves were from, you know,
the seventeen eighties, in which case I'm pretty sure the
soil has circulated and race surfaced at this point. So
I spent most of the evening apologizing to those folks

(32:28):
on whose graves I was not gracefully stepping. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah,
it's funny, isn't it, because we and again we'll talk
about this later on, but we had an issue. We
had the reverse issue with the tension of the surface
of the ground at that graveyard later on in season two,

(32:50):
late season two, Yeah, absolute reverse issue. I don't remember
it was it was season three, because oh right, that's
it was season three. It was cold, and some swords suffered,
That's all I can say. But we'll talk suffer or
did we suffer? A sword suffered? Do you remember when

(33:10):
he when he had to stab it into the ground
and it's sort of accordioned. You remember that that was
the same graveyards. We're just in a different corner of
the graveyards. But again we will talk about that later on.
There's so much We're gonna keep saying this. There's so
much to keep coming back for everyone, and that's why
we're here. But also you know, as as when it
comes to things to come back for we have our

(33:32):
first glimpse, maybe not our first glimpse, but our next
glimpse at the next place moment that it is from
the book as well, but it's you as as Jason's
being clarionto this world and teaching her how to be
a shadow hunter and teaching her how to trust her instincts.
They're connecting on a lot of levels, and you know,

(33:53):
there's there's these situations where you end up relying on
a person and you get very close and and vulnerable.
Now with Jason Clary, we know that leads to a
lot of chemistry and teaching her how to weld the
sword is the equivalent of like going on a mini
golf date for these two similar Yeah, what I wanted,

(34:16):
and I remember talking to Andy about this is what
I wanted was this sort of and it's difficult to
do with like a sword and with the positioning that
they wanted on the on you know, the day of
the framing with us sort of stacked behind each other.
But I wanted this sort of like tai Chi moment
where we're sort of following each other's energy through the
almost like the cosmos, you know, they're sort of working

(34:38):
with each other, and the almost could have done it
with their eyes closed. And it started with touching and
following where the touching is going, and then that's separated
into just sort of following the energy of where it
was going, which led to her doing it on her own,
which is a large part of how Jay's teaches. Clary
is knowing that her instincts are going to take over,
understanding that her in thinks are there, and it's just

(35:01):
about sort of waking them up. And whether he pushes her,
you know, hard, or whether he pushes her in in
more delicate ways is in this scene and just lets
it sort of take over. This was our first time
that we get to see Clary be a shadow anter.
This is that her first like this sword does fit
in my hand. This sort is an extension of who

(35:23):
I am, and my instincts are coming from within me.
They're not It's not a motion that I'm doing with
my hand. It's I can feel it in my heart
and I can feel it coming out of my body
and into this sword and into this weapon. And that's
what we wanted to sort of show there, which I
think is cool, and then nicely ended that scene I
think with actually maybe chuckle. And I was rewatching it

(35:45):
that like sort of intensely almost sexual moment where we're
sort of close together and like I'm going to be
there for you. I will, we will be there for you.
Is just forget whatever I was saying at least Scarborough. Yeah,
I'm definitely gonna be there. Oh it's not we we
the wee. Yeah. Poor to poor Jason not being able

(36:10):
to express his feelings very well. That's again what is
such a great thing about Place, And I think why
their relationship was so beautiful to watch grow because you
have this kind of teaching back and forth that's happening.
You know. Jason is teaching Clary to trust her instincts
in in being a shadow hunter and in her skills

(36:32):
and and this sort of inherent lineage of being a
fighter and a soldier and having these powers, whereas Clary
is teaching Days to trust his instincts when it comes
to his emotions, and to trust her and to kind
of be more open and more vulnerable, to to sort
of go against the shadow Hunter's creed of emotions. Cloud

(36:54):
judgment and emotions are a hindrance, not a tool, and
it's it's this sort of combination of the two that
ultimately makes them both more powerful in a lot of ways.
Exactly right. So moving on from our wonderful graveyard scene. Um,
we'll actually briefly whilst we're there, because we did touch

(37:14):
on this earlier and I said we would come back
to it when we're in the scene. But this is
the moment if you're rewatching with us, this is the
moment where you can see for the first time Jason
alec is about to leave. Jay says something along the
lines of like, do you see what you need here?
And he's like, no, I need a bow. By the way,
first time we see Alex bow is in this episode
as well, Alex signature bow, which is exciting, but he's like, no,

(37:35):
I don't have a bow. I need some rrows. I've
got a ruined Tomorrows And he's like okay. He goes
and it takes two steps away and just does a
little and it's the first time that we see that
these two not only our best friends, but there is
this this ethereal supernatural relationship that they have that they
actually feel when each other feels, They sense when each

(37:58):
other feel and we get to talk about him more
and more late, more and more later on as the
seasons go on, But this is the first moment where
you get to see the two of them together. It's
more than just like I know you're upset and I'm
going to apologize. It's like I can feel that you're
upset and it happens to us together, which is really cool,
the first moment for us to get to explore and

(38:18):
in the same way that there's a vulnerability with Clary
and there's a vulnerability where you are kind of you,
we're both using our instincts in that sense, you really
see how honed that relationship is and how you both
trust each other's instincts and judgment. And just whereas you
see Clary and Jay's kind of discovering, you see Alec

(38:38):
and Jay's just knowing in the same way that Clarie
and Simon know how the other person feels and can
almost predict and finish each other's sentences, and it's like
you said, it's it's really lovely to see both sides
of those relationships. We leave the graveyard, we are armed

(39:15):
up to the teeth with our vampire killing accessories, and
this takes us to I believe the Vampire bar, you
and I at least when we go straight to the
vampire bar. From here, we're waiting for Alec to come
meet us. Correct. The first fun thing about this vampire
bar is this is another one of our sort of

(39:36):
unilaterally multi used sets that ended up being any number
of things. It is in the far corner of our studio.
It's interesting because we know, you know, we know because
we see it. We were there. So when the bike
exits that room that is that is the basically the
back sort of parking lot of our studio. You know,

(39:57):
we cleared out the cars. This is clue parking. This
is where the crew would come in and park their
cars at the beginning of the day. We cleared those
out and obviously used it as part of our as
our set. Also, a family of raccoons lived back there
for most of the time. Remember remembering those big towers
climbing up They were all in a little roll like
little ducklings, Carling. I have a video of it somewhere,

(40:18):
but it's not very good. It was the other thing
as well, you know, I'm thinking about that. You go
back through behind the scenes photos and you notice the
difference in quality of cell phones, the cameras on my
cell phone. The difference in quality in just six years
has come on like leaps and bounds. So congratulations, Apple,
Now give me a new phone. Apple. I think we

(40:38):
noticed it in particular because a lot of our sets
and locations were quite dark, and the low light photography
and photeography capabilities were vastly different. In twenty season one,
we have to explain a lot more of what's happening
in the photo, and later on towards the end of
season three, it's more obvious in the photo because the
camera's got better, exactly so that Empires can see a

(41:02):
little more of the sort of dark underbelly of the
vampire world. We're not in the hotel demot we're not
in a clan sort of headquarters, this like beautiful safe place.
We're in this place that is dark and dingy and dangerous,
you know, almost like a trap for human beings were
in this place. That is scary. It's a scary place

(41:24):
to be. It's, as you said, the dark underbelly. It's luring,
luring humans. It's the sort of thing that shadow hunters
try and prevent against, or at least put rules in
place that have a guise of controlling it, whether or
not they actually are exactly. And you can speak to
this a little more. Another fun element of watching Clary

(41:46):
hone her instincts, watching her ability to to become more
of the shadow hunter that she's going to be in
the future. So you can tell us a little more
about that. With the seeing through, is it a glamor,
It wouldn't be a glamor seeing through like the layers
of reality, the incanto? Yeah, so what we Something else
we discover about the vampires in this episode is they
have this ability called incanto, which is sort of a

(42:08):
hypnosis of and humans are affected by it. Shadow Hunters
have runes that prevent against it, but Clary, being new,
doesn't really have that capability as yet, and we see
her do her best at distracting and dealing with a

(42:29):
a vampire as it were. We discovered that we need
to get to Hotel to more and the only way
to do that is by flying motorcycle, because that's how
vampires travel. So what do we do? We decided to
steal a flying motorcycle because that's of course the logical
chain of events, like what would you do? Obviously, that's
that's just what happens. Yeah, Jas goes, hey, why don't

(42:53):
you go go talk to that vampire over there? And
of course Clary gets incanted because she doesn't know what
she's doing, and Jay still ends up able to you know,
kick some butt, steal the keys, and off we go,
which this, I think for you and I was one
of our very first encounters with sort of the grandiose
nature of what the kind of c g I powers

(43:15):
of this world could be, This sort of combining the
practical effects with the c g I because we were
on a massive green screen and yet we still had
to be on this motorcycle. And I actually I had
a lot of fun in this scene. I did too.
We were on wires as well. Do you remember the
bike was was in the air, they elevated the bike.
There's there is a photo of us somewhere around. I

(43:40):
think I have a video of it. You have the gimball. Yeah,
when this episode, Yeah, when this episode airs, we should
post some some behind the scenes of this because this
was a really cool rig, a really really cool rig
that we got to play with. And they also had
something that I always find on sets to be um.
I get a kick out of it. I think it's
very amusing. Is when they need light to flash by

(44:00):
quickly as though cars are passing by, they sort of
have the helicopter lins, the helicopter lights where they put
two lights on a spinning stand. They call them see stands,
So the giant metal stands that hold you know downb
but the giant metal sticks like a heavy tripod, kind
of like a big heavy tripod um and then they
put perpendicular on top that spins and the effect is

(44:22):
the light because of the you know, the light spin
like helicopter blades on the ends of these perpendicular poles,
and the effect is the light coming on and off
of your face and on and off of your face,
which is very clever, and it's, you know, one of
those cool behind the scenes tricks. I wonder who thought
of it first, that this was the because you know,
these tricks were most of them sort of came out
of the nineteen twenties when c g I wasn't a thing,

(44:44):
and it was like, well, hey, I have a flashlight.
I could just do this exactly, you know what I mean,
Like there's you know these like cool cinema tricks that
they just never got improved on because they were never
needed to be improved on, so they just still exist.
This is our standard, Like great, let's get the helicopter
lights up and let's make this thing. And that's what
I think made that scene so effective is because we

(45:05):
did combine the practical and the c g I. You have,
you know, this flying motorcycle going up in the air,
but it's it's us on a motorcycle with the helicopter
life and the fans and everything else. And I think
it it changed our performance as well that we actually
got to do this practically in some sense, totally totally, totally, totally.
So then we land on the roof. It's like one mind,

(45:28):
you're already on it. And this scene, I don't know
if you know this dumb, this scene with Jason Clary
on the roof of hotel to More. The dialogue is
taken almost directly from the book Interesting I did not
know that this whole conversation that they have, I mean,
obviously it was altered a bit for the show, but
they Jason Clary do have a conversation about the fact

(45:49):
that Jason has never been in love and the fact
that emotions cloud judgment and all of these things that
become such major themes in our show moving forward. But
it also is the first time that I think Clara
gets a glimpse at the way Jason thinks and why
he is the work he is, and why he is
so closed off to emotion in some sense. You know,

(46:10):
there's an interesting thing with this that I was when
I was watching it in relation to that love conversation,
which I think is interesting Jason never having experienced anything
like that at all, a romantic love, because he, you know,
in reality, understands exactly what love is. He loves Alec,
he loves his he, he loves his fellow Shadow, and
as he loves Mars, he loves you know, all of

(46:31):
these people around him. He just hasn't experience necessarily a
romantic love before. But what's interesting is, and I was
talking to my girlfriend about this recently, is you or
at least from my point of view. I have felt
like I was in love before and I felt that
this is this is it, this is the be all
and end all. But then every time I meet someone new,

(46:54):
you know, for whatever reason, that relationship ended, and then
it moves on. You know, you evolved and you grow
and you're like, oh, actually, this is what love feels like.
This is that previous thing was nice and I enjoyed it,
but this it wasn't. I didn't I don't feel the
way I feel now, and now it's sort of elevated.
And the same with Decca. Now this is the most
in love I've ever felt in my entire life, and

(47:14):
it sort of made me feel like I wonder if
that previous thing was actually love or if it was
more if the if love is sort of more of
a spectrum where you're it's a certain percentage lust and
a certain percentage love or a certain percentage connection whatever.
And then the you know, the more you find your person,
you know your your soul mate, the romanticized version of

(47:35):
what a soul mate is. I always this is one
of the things that I directly related to with Jace,
where it's sort of felt a bit like I've never
been in love, and I'm not really in any rush
to sort of chase that because I feel like when
it when it arrives, then I'm just going to know
it's I'm going to feel it in my heart that like, oh,
this is what love is and this is awesome. And
that's how he feels with Clary. I think a big

(47:57):
part of why they get so close so quickly is
because of this connection that they feel with each other,
because they're sort of magnetically drawn to each other anyway
stopping moment over No, But I it's actually interesting that
you bring that up because I agree with you completely.
I think as you go through phases of life, you
learn with every relationship and with every person you meet

(48:18):
and every kind of love you experience, your understanding of
love change is also where you are as a human
changes how what love means to you at that at
that moment in time. You know, when you're fifteen, it's
entirely different than when you're twenty five, and it's ardly
to hard when you're thirty five and moving forward. But
it's interesting mythologically that you bring this up because I
don't know if you recall this, but in the lore

(48:40):
of this world, and the shadow World shadow Hunters only
fall in love once and they have one great love
of their life, and that is it. And that's why
you know, you can have a parabatae, which is it's
it's a metaphysical emotional connection that is supposed to be
and required to be non romantic because the shadow Hunters

(49:03):
love is so great and it is so when shadow
Hunters find there one person, yeah, it's for life, it's
for life, and that is I think what probably is is,
you know, Clary doesn't know this yet, but I think
it's what's jarring to Alec and maybe even to Jason
some level, that Jace does have such connection with Clary,

(49:26):
because if that is, that's a huge threat to not
only the parabatic relationship, but also to Jace's position at
the Institute and his job and if she's Valentine's daughter,
because they don't they still don't know a hundred percent
if Clary is on the up and up one percent.
So it's interesting if jas is one true love happens

(49:47):
to be the face of pure evil, of evil, yeah,
the yeah, the seedling of evil for sure. So I
don't know if you remember this, but this is the
one and only time that we used a practical light
up stella after the bikes, when we've landed on the roof,
we had do you remember this? They had one with
a with a wire attached to the physical stella, which

(50:10):
was attached to a battery pack which was in my
other pockets. So it went from this pocket down here,
through my jacket around my back and then down my
sleeve into this stella and I could physically turn on
the light of the stell a with this hand which
is hidden behind my back. And if you cut two, oh,
I don't have the time on this, which is annoying.
So I don't have the time stamp, but I So

(50:30):
the idea was that I will light up the stelle,
I will ruin clary c G, I will take over
the you know, the burning section on the skin, and
then I let it go and the cell a d
lights or you know whatever, and then I put it away.
The issue with that is if you look very closely
here and I'm literally looking at the scene, you can
see the wire. It's hanging out of the back of
my jacket. Yeah. Pretty obviously there's a black there's like

(50:53):
a black cable that looks like sort of a headphone
wire and it's hanging out of my jacket. So right
as he right as Jays turns around having to be
done with ruining Clary and puts the Stelle in his
back pocket, which is where it lived. That wire is
just there. It's just it's just hanging out. James forgot
to put his headphones away. You forgot to put his

(51:14):
headphones away. Also, It's dawning on me right in this
moment that I think part of the reason why I
broke so many Stellar's is because I chose to put
it in my back pocket and I would forget and
sit on it and it would shutter in my back
pocket and have that awful moment of like, yeah, well
that's broken. That is definitely how because I broke a
couple of Stellar season one as well, that is definitely
how I broke them. And was so thankful for our

(51:35):
Holsters in season two because it took care of all
of that. And maybe that's why they decided to make
his holsters, because they were sick of us breaking. In
big part, yeah, I think in big part that was
part of it. So now listen, now we get to
the meat of the episode, the exciting part of the episode,
the action packed conclusion. Here we go rescuing Simon Part two.

(52:00):
Rescuing Simon Part two. So also, interesting thing about this
set where we land the motor cycle. This is the
roof of our studio. Oh yeah, that's right, isn't it.
This is the roof of our studio, the actual practical roof.
This is the actual practical roof of our studios. So
we are three stories up on the top of this, uh,
this building that we sort of wrecked into. Interestingly, the

(52:24):
only time we use the roof because we later built
a roof inside later we built a set inside, you know,
we did for every other instance. That this was the
only time we were actually very interesting, I wonder why.
So Actually, in the background of this of this scene
with the motorcycle, you can see the towers where the
raccoons lived, which to there. There are these four towers

(52:46):
behind us, these sort of cylindrical white towers, which is
where this family of raccoons lived was in there, and
at the bottom of those towers is the vampire bar.
So the bottom corner of the parking lot that's that
we also used for Magnus is party of the rave
that we see in the next episode that sort of
revolving door of sets, that's that's over there behind this,

(53:07):
So just like a little sort of interesting piece of
magic of how how TV shows are filmed. You know,
it's all sort of in the same area, but not
really in the same area. And I think too in
this episode we see another part of the sound stage.
Do you remember that one area where we did our
first kind of badass slow motion walk through with the
swords glowing in the dark, and that that was the

(53:31):
first time we encountered on set where we show up
and the entire crew is in masks and there's some
sort of dust floating in the air and we have
no idea what's going on. We made masks cool before
twenty just saying shadow they were. They were being used
a lot by the shadow Ants group for sure, because
we were up in the attic essentially of this building
with like there was like the honestly parts of it,

(53:53):
it looked like it almost looked like tile, and then
you touched it and your hands would sink an inch
and a half through this collection of dust, like years
and years and years worth of dust. So it's pretty
grim up there. Granted, looked great for atmosphere, and our
poor crew had to be in there for most of
the time, so of course they were in has mat
suits and masks and and while they were setting up

(54:14):
we got to step away from said dust. But I
do remember that was one of the first moments that
it hit me. This sort of it's that moment on
set where you have to pinch yourself because you feel
like a little kid playing with swords in the woods
and playing with your friends, because you go, oh no,
this is the moment. This is where we do the
badass slow motion. This is our our team, this is

(54:37):
our superhero moment. This is our kind of you know,
the part where the rock music kicks in and the
mission starts and and here it goes, and uh, you
know it's it's true for the story as well. It's
the first time that Clary is officially or unofficially part
of the team and serving a purpose and kind of
having at least a small modicum of skills. So, speaking

(55:17):
of said instincts and skills, we move in. The shadow
Hunters move in. We have Distraction Team Alpha and then
Team Place moving in separately and making our way towards
slowly where Simon is we bump into our handsome friend
from earlier and this is where no, our handsome friend

(55:39):
from the biker bar, blue jacket dude. And this is
the part I've been just dying to talk about. This
is where I snap my ankle. This is where I
snapped my ankle and you can see it kind of
happen if you look real close. I don't think you'll
see my ankle actually snap, thank god. But there we
walk into this play and Jace gets blindsided by these

(56:02):
these two vampires lifted up into the air and then
slammed down into the ground earlier on, So this is
this is the full story of how this happened. Earlier on.
In this day, we were rehearsing a stunt that was
supposed to be in this cool fight scene where I
use this cupuera, which is a Brazilian sort of dance
slash fighting martial art. This cupuerera move where I go

(56:24):
down on one hand and use my legs to wrap
around the neck of the vampire and pull him over
the top and he ends up sort of locked up
in an armbar. The video of that is on my
Instagram somewhere of me rehearsing it. Earlier this day, we
was sort of finalizing it and we made there was
a mistake that happened, and I ended up taking a
knee to the face which sort of knocked out half
of one of my tooth, and it happens, it was

(56:47):
a mistake. So then we go to set sort of
borderline concussed with a little chunk of tooth missing. And
the first thing that happens is we do this this
tackle and my ankle just snaps underneath me on landing,
and I remember it happening, And anyone who's ever done
this before, you'll know this this sort of weird paradox

(57:08):
of emotions that goes through you where you're in instant pain.
You know something bad has happened to that area of
your body. You're in so much pain, but you're also
so it's so annoying. It's such an annoying You're like, oh, God,
damn it. That's no, that's what it is. And with
me when something when I get hurt badly, I go
very quiet, and I go very insular, and I sort

(57:28):
of try and breathe my way through it, and I'm like,
I know there are people here who are going to
help me. So I just go cut. I'm so sorry.
We need to stop. I'm so sorry. We need to stop.
We need to stop, We need to stop, which immediately
brings the medics into set um. You know, they know
something's gone wrong whatever, and they start on doing my
boots and by the time my boot is off, my
ankle is twice the size. Straight to the hospital. We
put a we put a pause on the day. And

(57:50):
that was sort of the position I was in for
the next like five episodes, because it was my ankle
was a mess, so is in. I was wrapped up
in like you know, either support straps they needed to
see my feeds where I was on crutches, or I
was in a boot. And this is this is the episode.
This is the episode that the big first injury happened.
But you know, credit to the crew and the team,

(58:13):
my fellow actors. We powered our way through and we
managed to get stuff. And I don't think unless you
know this story, I don't think you would really know
that anything happened. A lot of that was creative shoot shooting,
creative filmmaking that you know, dom currently walk you can
do maybe three steps and that's kind of it for now.
And we figured it out. We've figured it out as

(58:33):
a team and collaboratively as actors were like, well then
why don't we enter from here or you know whatever,
And fellow actors were very very helpful with that. My
colleagues were very helpful and very supportive. And then also
the crew and the team around us were very accommodating
for trying to figure that out. So as as bad
as the injury was, the fact that it didn't put
a stoppage in the show, I think is a credit

(58:55):
to the team that we had up there. Absolutely, and
that's that's exactly it. And I think that was of
the first time that we all did have to band
together as a crew and a cast and and a
team and go, Okay, here's a problem. How do we
solve it. How do we figure this out? How do
we fix it? Because we can't start figure this out
and trains gotta keep moving, so let's let's all carry

(59:15):
each other through. And you know, that became kind of
the spirit of the show in in a really beautiful way,
as unfortunate as it was. For as unfortunate as it was,
a nicely clarifying moment that these are good people that
I want to spend a lot of my time with
even though I was in pain. So let's also talk

(59:35):
about whilst we're in the Vampire Den. We have not
mentioned Alberto enough in this and this is I think
this was a real time for him to sort of fly.
We got to understand how how brilliant Alberto is an
improvisation and how how easy he made this sort of
dialogue that was very you know, and you got to

(59:57):
see him like play with things and do the thing
with you know, with the with the vase, and he
gets to go and have fun. And this is like
Alberto's wheelhouse. This is what he's amazing at is when
they just sort of let him go and they go, well,
he's amazing a lot of things. But when they just
let him sort of go, yeah, you've got kind of

(01:00:18):
free rein here. You just go and do your thing. Um,
and he's like, I got You have him opposite Caitlin Leeb,
who plays Camille so brilliantly, who just slithers in as
this very feline, very sexy, all powerful lead vampire of
the clan, and then you have Alberto opposite her, and

(01:00:39):
you you set him loose with all of the artifacts
and all of the playthings and go, okay, have fun.
You give him a sandbox and let him go play
and it just enjoy Yeah, and well, and Alberto got
to create so much too, of what the incanto was
and how it manifests, and what you know, the freezes are,
and how how it works with vampires and how to

(01:01:00):
do the speed and all of these different elements. A
lot of that was Alberto's creativity influencing how it manifested.
And I remember having conversations with him because he did
that scene first before I did mine in canto, and
so I sort of had to go to him and go, okay,
you've established this, what did you do and how does
it work? And you know that way we could keep

(01:01:21):
it consistent. We did a lot of that. We remember,
we used to do a lot of that sort of
stuff where whoever it was who filmed first, we take
that person aside and go, hey, how how did you
set this law up? Because we weren't there those days.
And this is another thing that it's that is interesting
for people to remember, is you know, on set, if
you're not in that scene, the chances are you weren't

(01:01:41):
physically there that day, so you didn't see what happened.
And then on top of that, if they tried a
few different iterations of whatever it was, we don't know
which one they're going to go with. So the only
way to match what had previously been established is this
is how we do things. To doing it again is
to talk to the actors and the directors and the
teams around you and say, hey, how did we do this?

(01:02:03):
How what was the what was the process that we
went through? And you know, we'll talk about this much
later on, but Luke and I had that that conversation
when we play each other, you know, in that section
in season three, we sat down, we'd at a bar
and we had some drinks and it was a weird
motion for everyone else there because we were mimicking each other.
We were copying each other's motions and like figuring out

(01:02:25):
how to move like each other and talk like each
other and stand like each other. And that's, you know,
one of those things that sort of goes into making
making these kind of shows that you know you have
to you have to collaborate and work and trust the
other people. Didn't even Alberto have to do that at
one point as well. For when you Glamors in the bar, right,
because didn't one of you glamorous or something? There was

(01:02:47):
something I forget exactly what it was, Glamours as him.
And then we had lovely Sarah Scottford. I don't know
if you remember who was playing our gorgeous girl. So
Sarah Scottford had been with us pretty much since the
beginning as a standing, which is one of the more
painstaking jobs on set. A stand in is someone who,

(01:03:09):
you know, if we're in hair and makeup, or if
we're getting our touches done, or if we're speaking to
the director or rehearsing or whatever it is, the standing
literally stands in our spot and they get lit around us.
They match the lighting to us, and they sort of
look vaguely like us. There are heights, there are build
and Sarah, I believe, was your stand in or sort
of our overall female standing and this one day we

(01:03:31):
needed a person in and Sarah was the perfect girl
for it. And then she comes into the scene. But yeah,
we'll talk about that one. That's I think that's season two.
We have time for that one. It is, But I
will say that's another thing I love so much about
this show is that it gave so many people the
opportunity to be the right person to step in and
fill in, like Sarah stepping in and bring Sydney, Yeah,

(01:03:53):
Sydney bringing people on the show. Verity, who was one
of our makeup artists. She was a permit on on
the first season and got her union status and was
able to build her way up through the ranks of
being a makeup artist. And just can't explain that a
little for not just the people at home, I don't
fully understand explain that one to me a little more

(01:04:13):
so when you're training, it's very similarly to when you're
an actor before you're a member of the union. It's
your first couple of jobs. You have a permit, which
means you're allowed to work on a union job and
kind of in training as it were. And Verity, who
is one of our brilliant makeup artists who hopefully will
have on the show at some point because she was
with us from day one. And it's also a huge

(01:04:35):
engaged by the congratulations, pity, congratulations Verity, and she was
given the opportunity to be on the show, then became
a regular makeup artist on the show who was employed
full time not just on a daily basis, and because
of that ended up getting her union status and got

(01:04:55):
to work through and you know, then be a second
is sistant and a first assistant and now is you know,
heading department on different shows and doing makeup in in
a very different capacity. You know, as kind of one
works their way up the corporate ladder, you kind of
work your way up through the ranks in different departments.
You have the same way. You usually start off doing
guest stars and then end up in recurring roles and

(01:05:18):
then a series regular, and you know, all all the
ways in which we move up as we gain experience
in the industry. It was so lovely to be able
to see our show give people that had been with
us for a long time and we're already members of
the family chances to not only stay with us for
several years, but also to grow in their in their
careers as well. Absolutely, absolutely yeah, and that that was

(01:05:42):
such a fun thing for us because you you grow
to know and love these people and then to watch
them kind of blossom and come into their own it's
it's such a celebratory, wonderful thing, totally alright, So listen,
where are we now? Let's move on. So so we
also get to see a lot. As you were saying
about Simon and Camille, we learn a lot. Camille is

(01:06:02):
pulling information out of Simon or trying to find out
where Clary is trying to find out where the Mortal
Cup is, trying to get as much advantage, but in
the end she ends up revealing information. She lets a
few things slip about Magnus Bain which will play into
later episodes as far as the memory and wiping abilities
and things that we're trying to discover in mine out

(01:06:24):
of Clary's brain. And then we finally everything comes to
a head. It does. We all meet chaos and sues.
We slay a few vampires, which will have to get
the exact kill count because I don't recall what that is.
I have one, I think I think I have one
and you have one in this only because I remember

(01:06:44):
I have a broken ankle. And they were like, can
you still do that spinning move where you take off
someone's head? And I was like, I don't know. The
answer is I don't know. I'm not sure, And I
think if you watch, it's sort of an awkward like
had to shift from you know, I trained it as
almost like a pirouette, like a ballet pirouette, on my
left foot, which is the foot that ended up just

(01:07:05):
you know, broken beyond all reasons. So I had to
shift it onto my right foot, but my sword is
in my right hand, so it felt off that my
balance was using both. And it's an awkward it's an
awkward spin. It's I feel awkward to watching it. Sure well,
despite your awkwardness, we still win the battle, but we
almost get caught as we're trying to get away, and

(01:07:25):
then Raphael intercepts, and this is kind of one of
the first it's one of the first instances that we
see of basically what the core message of what I
think our show ended up being in the end is
that no matter as we were talking about the kind
of spectrum of lineage and creature and species, blood type,

(01:07:46):
however you want to refer to it, it's not what
runs through your veins that makes you who you are
and makes you a hero or a villain, or a
good guy or a bad guy. It's the choices that
you make, and it's what you choose to do and
where your heart lies as opposed to where you lie
in this sort of divisive world, and I think that's such.
It even says it doesn't he he says the line,

(01:08:06):
he says, remember who your friends are. And I think
the overarching as you're saying, sort of the overarching theme
of our story is exactly that is, you know, you
remember who your friends are, and it doesn't matter who
they are or where they're from. They are your people,
regardless of whether they look the same or behave the
same or if they're from a different world or you know,

(01:08:27):
a different realm. They are your friends, and they your people,
and they your family, and it's important to keep them
close and not just envelope them for who they are,
but also have a more profound understanding of who they
are and their journey and how they got to where
they are, you know, an understanding of how this young
kid ended up, you know, a brutal, immortal succubus, which

(01:08:50):
wasn't his choice, that's not what he wanted. That's that's
you know, to understanding that story. I think was a
big part of what we were trying to do there too,
is the art imitates life, of like, instead of seeing
something as different, maybe let's have a little understanding of
what that is, let's have a conversation. Let's try and
evolve ourselves to understanding that and make people feel welcome

(01:09:12):
to tell their stories so we can understand it, we
can move, and we can grow with with the ever
changing world around us. And I think you're right. I
think that was a big part of what we wanted
to to tell in our story. And I think you know,
the not only the writers, but I think every actor
that came onto the show really understood that and and
took to that. And I I always found there to

(01:09:34):
be a bit of art imitating life in that sense
because our show, I mean, you and I have both
worked on a lot of sets over the years, and
I had not encountered a set before and haven't since.
That was so collaborative and celebratory of everyone's gifts as
shadow Hunters. You know, it really was a set where
everyone recognized that every single person was being a part

(01:09:57):
of telling the story and and an artist in their
own and had their own specific expertise, and we really
allowed you every department to feed off of each other
in that way and to influence and and elevate every
element of the show in the same way that you know,
our characters and our creatures all find ways to allow

(01:10:18):
their gifts to work together to accomplish these goals and
to to save the day in the end, we hope agreed.
But before we sort of run out of time, I
want to touch on the and you this is really
you telling this story. But it was interesting for me
to rewatch this that moment of parallel between the relationships

(01:10:38):
of Simon and Clary and Alec and Chase and the
romance friendship divide there that we see, you know, all
too clearly from Simon and then what is going to
be led into in the next episode with Alec and
Chase and that relationship. And I thought that was a
cool parallel that we got to show exists in all

(01:11:03):
different types of world. And I think both Cassie and
our writers were sort of trying to explain that this
is this is one of the stereotypical relationships that exists
in just normal, everyday life for the readers and the
viewers and the listeners, and we reflected that in what
we do in the show. Yeah, there's something I loved

(01:11:24):
so much about things that are show dead, as he said,
as we take these normal, sort of mundane human problems
and set them in a yes stumps doing air quotes,
and set them in a supernatural setting where at least
you know, this is why I loved reading Why a
Fantasy as a kid, because if you're going through something
in your own life that if these people can handle

(01:11:47):
those same situations and still fight demons and save the world,
maybe my problems aren't so bad. And you know, it's
as you said, it's it's a literal physical representation. You
see the triangles all kind of placed out in the
roof you have, you know, you looking at me, looking
at Simon, looking at me, looking at you, looking at Alec,

(01:12:08):
and Alec looking at you looking at me, and it's
just this whole kind of interconnected. And then Isabelle applying
lipstick in the corner because she's just she sees it
all those silly, silly, silly boys and girl. But then,
you know, then we do have this moment where it's
it's I've rewatched it. It's so heartbreaking, lee innocent and

(01:12:29):
painful at the same time, when when Claire gives him
in the biggest hug and goes, You're my best friend.
I don't know what I would do without you, and
kisses him on the cheek and he's just going a
little heartbreak. Yeah, and he's so good at that. Oh,
I know, he used to break my heart left, right,
and center. There's an episode later where I swear I

(01:12:49):
was crying more on his coverage than on my own,
just because he broke my heart so much. I know
which scene you're talking about with the in in your
room or would be his room, right, Yeah, I know which.
I know which one you're talking about. You know. Over
the course of the season, he had a couple where
we god, there's the one in three it must be

(01:13:11):
three with his mom. It's probably my favorite scene we
ever did on the show. Yeah, because it's so heartbreaking.
But again, Freddie, foreshadowing, that's for later on. That's gonna
be your new nickname. But then, speaking of foreshadowing, we
have the final moment of the episode where Simon starts
to fixate on a vein of Clary's as it starts pulsing. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:13:37):
lots lots going on for poor Simond, and I think
that's pretty much the end of our episode. That is
the end of our episode, leading us into the next
phase of this journey as we deal with the aftermath,
inevitably of saving Clary's best friend. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yeah,

(01:13:57):
all kinds of things came up in our of it.
Still no Valentine, still no Cup, still no Mum. Yeah,
when it's still probably a bad good job. We still
think Luke is a bad guy right now. And I'm
getting ahead of myself now as well, because I watched
through six yesterday or five yes same so now I'm like, wait,

(01:14:21):
which one is what happened in episode four? And I'm
trying and not get ahead of myself whilst we're doing this.
But as far as this episode goes, we want to
say thank you so much as always for listening, and
we will see you next time. Welcome back now, welcome back.
My brain is not functioning it, Yes, thank you for
joining us, and we'll see you next time on Return

(01:14:45):
to the Shadows. One last thing. I don't know if
this is going to be applicable when it airs, but
I just want to send my thoughts and prayers to
the people of the Ukraine. Hopefully by the time this
has aired it has been resolved peacefully and democratically, but
I just want to send my thoughts out. We are
thinking of you, and please stay safe as much as
you possibly can. Well said Down returned to The Shadows

(01:15:14):
as hosted an executive produced by Katherine McNamara and Dominic Sherwood.
Our executive producer is Langley. Our senior producers are Liz
Hayes and Diego Tapia, and our producers are Hannah Harris
and Kristin Vermilia. Original music by Alex Kinsey and performed
by Alex Kinsey and Katheryn McNamara. The episode was mixed
by Seth Landski.