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January 15, 2024 72 mins

There are siblings, and then there are twins!No one understands that special dynamic better than identical brothers Benji and Joel Madden.They may share the same chromosomes, but in this conversation we explore their differences too. The musicians tell us about moving cross country to escape a tumultuous childhood, their complicated relationship with their religious roots, and their thoughts on who comes first...your twin or your wife?Plus- when can we expect new music? 

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi am Kate Hudson, and my name is Oliver Hudson.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Railvalry, No, no, sibling. Don't do that with your mouth.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Vely, that's good.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
I just got off the road on the roads today,
bannh no A little up the tent from the desert,
and I think my kids are still at your house.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
The kids were sleeping.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I got a call last night from Wilder.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Auntie Kate can. I like can like someone turned the
like dracuzion and like the lights in the pool, it's
like really dark on here. And he goes, I'll text
you when I'm done, you know, And of course did
not text when he was done, and he did text you.
Oh yeah, Wilder. I was like, Wilder just like living

living it up at his antique desert chefs to.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Come over and like maybe cook some breakfast.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
I was like, I don't have.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
But it was a great holiday, but I need like
a holiday from a holiday.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
That's always what happened. Why because it's stressful.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
I know it's stressful, but everyone drinks and has fun
and you're celebrating too much and then you finish and
you're like, I'm exhausted.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, you were drinking a lot more than I know.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
See, getting after it more than you normally.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, but you were like at nine thirty, I like
went to breakfast and you were like you would like
a beer, yeah, with like lime squeezed in it, which
was a first for me to see refreshing You actually
cared about the lines.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, because it was an ice cold mug where the
corona was actually like slushing just a little bit. Yeah,
with that sort of hint of citrus and little salt. Yeah, sick,
and then you just feel amazing. I think more people
will relate than not.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
I know, but it did kind of make me sick,
just because we had, like we really did go pretty
hard this holiday season, and so when I saw that, I.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Was like, wow, that is coming two of them because.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, which made me even sicker.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
It was like WHOA.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
I think it's because you had your prenuvo and you
had no fatty liver, and.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
So you just just try to make it fatty, like.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
You're like, you know what, things look good?

Speaker 4 (03:05):

Speaker 3 (03:05):
The worst thing you could have.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Done was have like no findings on your premium.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, we all threw up. I kind of feel weird
talking about this a little bit, but but I'm going
to because this was the first time this happened. Actually,
I have never I don't know what got into me
or what happened. And I think even something else it
was possibly could have been something else, but like everyone

was like, maybe it had something to do with maybe
it had something to do with Martini.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
And then red wine. But and this is what your
wife's whole thing was.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I don't understand this theory.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
I've I've had Martini's and wine before. I'm just thinking
maybe it was like the fourth bottle.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
That's the problem.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
But you don't want well you don't.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I didn't well I didn't drink that many, but but
I did wake up.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
I felt terrible. I then was fine in the middle
of the day. I like got myself together, and then
went to bed that night and got really sick and
I was like, I don't understand what's going on.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
And I was like right and helped me.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
To get over here.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
And I've never had that, and then and then and
then the next night was Aaron, Oh no, it was you.
And then you were the next night, I just you
and you threw up. And then the next night was
Aaron and she also.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I know, well she just drank way too much wine
and then smoked a big joint, which you cannot do.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
But then I realized. Then then the next morning I
was like, this is this is there's something wrong, there's
this is not okay. You know it was it was
there was something that was like, what is this telling us?
We've never had this any holiday season? No, no, And
for some reason, this one was like, guys, get it together.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's I'm happy it's Monday. Oh happy, like to not
drink for the week and out, I know, working out again.
I know, Oh god, I know.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
But then it's like six thirty and you're like, holiday season,
it's a tough one with a balance, balance in the holidays.
We should talk to an expert about this.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's a good idea, Yeah, because it's impossible.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
It's definitely not going to be the Madams, which is
our next.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
I feel like I feel like we can as much
sid Joel, Joel and Benji.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Although you've known them, I've known this for so long,
good friends with them for so long.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Joel. I've known Joel and Nicole, who are the absolute
best couple. I love them so much. Joel is the
best human ever. I just really appreciate it. I don't
know Benji as much and as well as I know Joel,
but I'm really excited to interview them because they're just

the kindest, most lovely people.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
And they've i mean, I mean they've been doing good.
They've been in good.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Charlotte, I mean since they they're born, since they were born.
We'll get into that, we'll get into out. But anyway, they.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Want to SoRs and are doing amazing with their with
their streaming stuff which I was reading about. It allows
them to just be home, family first stuff.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, you know, and that's that's who they are. They
are family first and they they probably are actually the
people to talk to you about balance because they totally
cleaned their life up. They're like, fully, they're.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
I don't know, well, are they here? We can ask them?

Speaker 4 (07:06):
What day?

Speaker 3 (07:07):
I'm so happy?

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Oh are you good?

Speaker 3 (07:10):
How's it going, guys? Welcome to our podcast.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah. We were just talking about over consuming you during
the holiday season and how I can't stop every day
I wake up wondering if I'm an alcoholic or not,
which probably means I am, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
We're talking about balance.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, balance is good most of the time.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
And then I said, I'm not I don't know. I
mean Benji and Joel. Maybe maybe they're the right people
to talk to about balance.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Maybe not.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
And then we were like.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, you look at all the years that have gone by,
and this year was we went a little harder than
we've normally gone. Yeah, and it was like everyone threw
up at one point. We were like, this is problem.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
I think the world is going harder for some reason
this year in all aspects, and I think it's a
cultural moment.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Uh that we could probably all find.

Speaker 5 (08:16):
Ways in which we are going we're going to excess
uh in some way, shape or form. I think it's
like a moment in the world and energetically, I don't know,
I feel that way. I really think if you are
asking yourself if you're an alcoholic, I actually think that's
a good sign because I actually think if you're an alcoholic,

you're not you're unaware of it, right, Oh right, Yeah,
that's your internal break system where it's that's just your
internal break system. So I think that most people, yeah,
most people have have to have interventions done on them
if they other people have.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
To, right, I know. But it's just like a going
to drink today. I don't want to drink. I'm just
gonna be cool, going to work out, and then, like
you know, the six thirty seven rolls around, I'm like, yeah,
if I get I'm gonna drink, have a drink.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yeah. It work for it all year long. You work
for those holidays, you know, That's right?

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Which is we're in you guys sober or you guys
still No?

Speaker 5 (09:19):
Yeah, no, not sober sober in some ways for sure.
I like to think I am very sober in some ways,
sober most of the time. Yeah, But as far as
partaking in alcohol, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
I've never actually done a drug in my life. Really.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, you've been in a rock band your whole life
and you've never die.

Speaker 3 (09:41):

Speaker 2 (09:42):
I love hearing that. That's that's a rarity.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yeah, I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
Yeah, it's a good thing, Joel, It's a good I
don't actually have a thing against I certainly don't think
drugs are good for you. But I'm not a very
judging person when it comes to people doing drugs. I
certainly know tons of people that don't drugs, but never
had always been a little afraid of it myself.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, we classifying I am I judge, I judge everybody.
I just got to put that out there.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
But weed isn't a drug. I mean, were classifying weed
as a drug or.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
No, we we we we's legal. It's legal. So got
illegals say inicit drugs. Maybe I'm kind.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Of with you. I mean, I've never done cocaine in
my life. You know, I've never done any real drugs
other than mushrooms and weed. For the most part, I
don't those don't count.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Those don't count.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Ecstasy back in like like late nineties and early two thousands, it.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
Was like a county. Ecstasy was like a big thing.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, And it was hardly ecstasy. It was just like
all cut up with everything you could possibly imagine. You
just like sort of you know, flying around, like feeling
like a crazy person.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Oliver came back. I was next to Yeah, Ollie came
back one time. I'm going to just say this because
I can uh, he came back. I forget what it was.
You went on some trip to like the Hamptons or something.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
First time I've been there and last time I'll never
forget this.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
He was so yeah, and he came back and his
his he chewed his whole face off, like his entire mouth.
I was like, I was, like, what happened to you?

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I got in a pool with the Planmate of the
Year at like four at four am and did not
get out of the pool until seven pm the next day,
and he looked like a different thing. Was crazy. It
was whatever.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
I was worried.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
How old were I was nineteen years old? Nineteen or
twenty years old?

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Too young?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
And that was like, you had a great time.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
It was a great time. It was the Playmate of
the Year had this house and all these playmates were there,
and like I was sitting around the pool and it
was you know, now it was like noon. I'd been
there since five am, and all of a sudden, he's
just because you're looking up. It's just like vaginas start
appearing everywhere because they're all naked, and now I'm just
seeing these like vaginas. I'm like, oh my god. But
and then there's a gardener. There's a gardener with a

leaf flower. But it's like night.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
I didn't hear this part of the story.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, my goodness. A gardener.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
I mean god, we go yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Right then goodness, and then and then we flew to
see Jimmy Page and Chris in Washington.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Oh, that's when I saw your face when you saw me. Yeah,
so you weren't nineteen, you were in your twenties. You
were like, yeah, it was before Aaron though, Yeah, but
you I was twenty one.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
I was by twenty three.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
Yeah, it was definitely before Aaron.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely before.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Right right, right, right, all right, let's let's let's let's
exit your your kick, let's get back to Joel and Benji.
Let's jump right in on this, guys. What is it
like for you to be identical twins? That's a big question,

but let's start with like when did it start? When
was it that you actually looked at each other and
recalled like, wow, we're identical, Like when it hit you? Guys?

Speaker 5 (13:24):
Well, for you, I guess we should start before we
start at the beginning. I will say that being adult
male twins is weirder than being kid twins. Kid twins
are cute and fun, but adult male twins there's not
a ton of I would say kitchy value, like I

would say it's not. It's catchy. So you run into
people and they'll talk to you for about five minutes
before you haven't really had a chance to say, hey,
I think you're talking about Benji. Definitely didn't meet you,
or we weren't there together, things like that.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
I feel like you and I we've had We definitely
had those moments early in early days. For sure. I
can all yes, yes.

Speaker 5 (14:14):
Or like he'll go if he's like We cover for
each other a lot sometimes, like if I can't, if
I'm out of town and and my kid has a
baseball game, Benje will go and like be there, and
then everyone thinks he's me, but he's a little less
friendly than me because they don't know anyone there. And
then they're like, last week, were you sick or something?

And I'm like no, They're like, you just weren't as frienly.
You didn't say to me like brother.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
That's amazing from the father of the year, Like even
though you're there half.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
The time, that's kind of great. But when was the
moment for you when you were like, I don't want
to be identical right now, Like how do I define
myself as my own?

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Probably fourth or fifth birthday when you get a red
one and he gets a blue one, or you know,
you get a you know, like that's how it is.
Like we'd race to open Presence because we knew we
were getting the same thing, just in a different color.
You would race to open Presence because you're like, people
give you two boxes and they look exactly the same,

and you're like, no one was like, oh that one
was for you. It was like you got the red one.
So it didn't matter whose name you put on it.
We would just rip it open because we wanted to
be surprised, and we shared everything.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
It was nice though.

Speaker 5 (15:45):
I think we're moments when you're younger where you're like,
I just want to be myself, And then I think
as we've gotten older, we really see it as like
a stranger weapon.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
That's the strength. Like we feel like we maybe wouldn't
be here without each other.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
You know, we've made you know how, so in what
way would you not be here without each other?

Speaker 4 (16:05):
So I think, and not in the sense of like
maybe we'd be dead. I mean that's a possibility.

Speaker 5 (16:10):
Too, but but we were both very you know.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Dependent on one another for sure.

Speaker 5 (16:17):
And I think as you go through your development life,
like you always hit these fork in the roads where
you have to be you kind of have to decide
like who you are, Like am I going to be
more this kind of person or more this kind of person?

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Am I going to make this kind of decision? Or
am I going to say fuck it? You know, make
this kind of decision.

Speaker 5 (16:33):
And I think like when you always have like your
partner there, we're always going to encourage each other to
like make the right decision, you know, like like sort
of go like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
You could do that.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
I don't know, but are you you know, be careful man,
are you taking yourself or or sort of like you
just kind of you're not alone in the world, so
you know, you matter to someone. So I think like
everybody goes to their life and they always end up
in a moment where they're completely alone. And and like
if you're in a moment where like you're not really

feeling the best about yourself or whatever, you make decisions that.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Kind of that kind of you know, they embody that.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
So when you have your twin and you have your brother,
you're you're really partners. So so you always have you
always have that phone call. You always have someone to
call where you can go where and you get through
the It's the the easy parts of life are are
are are sort of more where you can sort of
spread your wings and split apart and go and do this.
But I think the hard parts of life are where

you you stick together and you kind of like you
encourage one another. You always have a cheerleader too, so
I think like getting through the honest and a very
honest feedback. You get very honest feedback from each other,
which I think is a strength and a real life
Hey you really do apologize, or hey you need to
go fix that, or hey you need to go what

you know, or even someone that you can say, hey,
how do I look, and someone will give you real
fear back on how you looks Oh, you look great,
because no one's going to really say how you if
they think they'll change your own that jacket makes.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
You look weird, right, yeah, like okay, I'm not gonna
wear that one. Come.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
I feel like that kind of feedback, like when we
went on the when we went on with the show
with Steve and I was like, what the fuck are
you wearing?

Speaker 5 (18:22):
Yeah, I wanted to look actually outside of the world,
like none of us would go up to someone in
the world.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
And be like, hey, does this make me look weird?

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Or hey, you know.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Also with your brother you'll be like, you know, hey,
like weird cut, weird cut.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
But also when when you're out in the world, it's
like you have a second set of eyes looking from
a different perspective. So if let's say there's somebody with
weird intentions or bad intentions, or weird energy or good
intentions good energy, I feel like we have a very pure,
uh all the things. When we look at someone, we're

not looking at anything other than when it comes to
each other.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
We're protective and.

Speaker 5 (19:08):
We're also I think honest, and I think we see
the best in each other maybe when we're not personally
seeing the best in ourselves. So I think we've very
much had a built in support system that I could
absolutely say I would I would not have anything in
my life, any of the success I've had, the success
in my family or marriage, the success in work, the

personal growth, I would not have any of that if
I didn't have my partner always telling me, like, are.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
You able to be a vulnerable with each other? Like
without any sort of you know, feeling, you know that
you're sharing too much, Like your vulnerabilities is off the chart,
doesn't matter, you can tell you have to charge each
other anything, Yeah, whether you like it or not. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, Where did you grow up in Maryland? It is
so Yeah, you grew you grew up right outside of
d right outside of d C.

Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yeah, about an hour and a half, kind of down
in the country, like about an hour and a half,
ninety miles from DC.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
So our mom grew up in Cooma Park.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, I know where it's Coma parks.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
How far are we are you from Baltimore?

Speaker 5 (20:22):
About the same, about about hour and a half ish
at Baltimore, more like hour and forty five two.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
So you guys grew up in the country. I mean
you grew up in the country.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
In that arms in the country actually really close to.

Speaker 5 (20:36):
So really close to the actually the very first settlement
in the United States, for a very first English settlement,
Saint Mary's City, Saint Mary's County. So if you go
out there, it's it's beautiful. I mean it's still sort
of that way now. It's like beautiful, lots of land,
lots of farms, lots of old old shit, you know,

like you can go see people's graves from the sixteen
hundreds and like.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
That, and you grew up on a farm or just in.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
And around farmland. It was all rural.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
So like in order to get to a friend's house,
you got to like get on a bike and ride
for a while. To get to somebody's house, you going.

Speaker 5 (21:16):
To really ride a bike. It would be more like
you have to drive get a ride. Yeah, yeah, mile
is a mile, depending on depending on if you have
a friend who lived like right up right, Like I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Everybody was super spread out though.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
And what did your parents do? What were they in
the arts or were they.

Speaker 5 (21:37):
They weren't in the arts, but they had some art vibes, right,
I feel like they liked art. They didn't really know
how to express themselves that way. Our dad was a
butcher and our mom was a homemaker, I think pretty
much just a homemaker.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
She had little jobs. She always had like some odd job.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
But yeah, and then my dad worked, always worked a
bunch of jobs. So he was he was a butcher
and he like painted houses on the side and he
was just like always working.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
So was your was your childhood like very free, meaning
like you can roam, you could do your thing.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
We played in the woods a lot.

Speaker 5 (22:17):
Yeah, so we had a big imagination, but it was
pretty strict.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
It was very religious. Our parents were very religious, like
terrified of.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
The world kind of yeah the rock, yes, with all
not being sacriligious, but yes, terrified of the rapture.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah, just the world, Like the world was scary to them.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
How did you, guys like process that growing up and
then even into your teenage and then twenties, and then
when you've had your band.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
They they said, We're going to create a rock band.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Right, That's what I'm saying, Like, was there a rebellious
nature to religion in anyway?

Speaker 5 (22:57):
I think that I always questioned and the people not
really actually have a very good relationship with the transcendent
part of life, I think, and with what I feel
like my understanding of God and religion and that I've
been able to I think make my own sense of it.

I always question the people, especially then, and also my parents,
who were very religious, ended up completely falling apart and impluding,
and then the family was really broken up, and then
we were kind of on our own after probably fourteen,
and so kind of the laws and ideals that they

kind of preach to us all kind of just unraveled.
And so I think the lesson that I took from
that was not that the religion's wrong or they're wrong,
but that people are people. And then I think I also,
as I got older, started to unpack, like everybody has
dirty laundry and makes mistakes and has things, So go

to any church and find any person to follow, and
you can find something that they've done wrong. So don't
buy it when someone's like presenting as perfect. That's why
I think I'm I try to be careful always, at
least when I do anything that's facing, maybe like public

facing or something like, I always try to be careful
not to present like worse, any one of us is perfect,
because I just think it's just a false idea that
you know that we're not all human and we don't
all make mistakes, whether we mean to or not, whether
we know we are or not, whether we choose to

or not.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
So religion was always kind of like this kind of.

Speaker 5 (24:47):
Over dramatic confine to me that constricted you from being
able to have the human experience, which is this really messy,
complex experience that's also painful and also joyful. And I
kind of just came to I think we rebelled against

it when we were teenagers and we didn't quite understand.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
But I'd say bench we never really really had trouble.
I was going to say, like.

Speaker 5 (25:16):
The way we did it was we just like we
were actually like we listened to everything, and we were
really good kids.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Like we just tried to make.

Speaker 5 (25:24):
Them happy because I think they were unhappy, so we
were trying to make them. We were trying to make
them happy. So we never got in trouble. Never we were.
We were really really hard. But what I say when
I say rebel against it, I kind of meaning like
I moved to California as soon as I could, Right,
how old were you?

Speaker 4 (25:43):
I was twenty two when I moved to California.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
But you also, did you guys have an older brother, right?

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Yeah, we have an older brother and a younger sister.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
And how much how many years older is your brother?

Speaker 4 (25:54):
Eighteen months?

Speaker 1 (25:56):

Speaker 3 (25:56):
So he, I mean, how influential was he for you
guys during that time?

Speaker 4 (26:04):
He was influential.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
He left home early though we were apart from when
we were like thirteen or fourteen, and then we and
then he went out on his own like young and
then yeah, he was like wow.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
He just like I'm out like peace, Like I got
to get the hell out of here. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:20):

Speaker 5 (26:21):
Basically it was a pretty tumultuous home life back then.
But yeah, so I think our nature like for me
in my mind, because I had such an idea drilled
into me of like the world and like especially Hollywood
in California and the way people are like, oh Hollywood.
I think my rebellion I rebelled against this the idea

that I was raised in by going to the place
where I was told was where everything was evil. And
so I think that was probably my my biggest way
of rebellion was leaving.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
As far as guys, did you guys go together? Yeah,
you did, yea. So it was a joint decision. I
mean he was like fuck it, let's both get out
of here, let's both go to California.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Yeah yep.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
And there was no resistance. There wasn't like I don't
want to, you need to. It was just like now
we're ready, let's roll.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:16):

Speaker 5 (27:16):
At good time, we were already like we were touring,
we already had like some we already had a couple
of hit songs, and like we were like getting asked
to write songs for other artists, and we were doing
a lot of stuff and we were we kind of
like decided we should we should move there, so we
found held on the same street.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
When did you discover music?

Speaker 4 (27:36):

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Was that? Because it's to me, it feels like inside
of this it just is like a perfect storm of
finding music and or an instrument and getting and disappearing
into it. And was it both of you at the
same time, or did one of you kind of lead
the other endto you know, writing and performing?

Speaker 4 (27:56):
It was both of us. It was together. Everything we've
ever done, we've always done together. Yeah, we were.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
We went to see the Beastie Boys play in nineteen
ninety five.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
It's like May fifteenth, nineteen eighty five, and we were
we went to the show.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
We had nosebleed seats and we're watching it and we
were just kind of watching everybody like watching freak out
and watching everything, and like we were just watching.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
We were just taking it all in.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
And then afterwards we were like we should do that.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
You know, and and we started.

Speaker 6 (28:30):
The band the next day, I think, Yeah, we were
already playing instruments, so we already did you already know
that you had some talent, like you were like, now,
fuck it, let's just start a band here, let's go
buy a guitar.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
With always the intention of being like always the intention
from that very day we decided the next day, We're like,
let's start a band.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
We'll be big, let's do it, let's go out.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
We had been gifted a guitar and a bass from
a church music like director that was like helping our
mom out when she was having a tough time. And
and we had and then I had a karaoke machine
this like was about this big and you could have
you could plug two mics into it. So I got

a I got a guitar cable, and we had a mic,
and we we just started making up little songs, uh
really literally because they also with the guitar was a
little book of like songs that we.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Had little pictures on how to and how to make
the chords.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
And and so I think I learned like three chords
and that was it.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
And then we just started. We never learned one song.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
We just started making you remember what do you remember
what your first like what your first chord?

Speaker 5 (29:46):

Speaker 1 (29:48):
We were like, yeah, this is kind of good.

Speaker 4 (29:52):

Speaker 5 (29:52):
The song we wrote there was a song we wrote,
our first kind of real song was called gravity Girl,
and it's there's a demo floating around online. Ok, people
still like hardcore fans still. You remember it was the nineties,
so it was all that, like it was all like alternative,
like nineties rock, you know.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
So yeah, gravity Girl.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Gravity Girl, and and it was it was it was
like heavy. I'm gonna say heavy on the d but but.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
But I mean I don't mean it like that.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
I mean like so it was it was the dcord
was the inspiration for that first song.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Wait, wait, hold on the gravity Girl was what did
you record it? Like literally on a cassette tape? I
mean just on the karaoke machine.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
Because it had two little cassette things and you could
you could record what you were singing.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's amazing. And it was just it was it just
was it like just a bass and a guitar or
did you have like a drum machine of any kind
or was it just.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
A gravity Girl. I'm gonna go find it.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Find that too.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
There's always like that. I always find like now, like
there's always that one core that people who write music
gravitate towards. It changes, it changes, but I like that
it was d that that makes a lot of sense.

So when you were like starting this whole process, was
there like I mean, and I say this in like
the best way because there's like no competition, But I'm
saying like, was there ever that moment where you're like, I,
I'm I'm a leading personality, Like let me lead this?
Like how did what happens when you guys disagree about something?

Or is there someone that's more like motivates things to happen,
Like who's is there more of a business brain versus
a creative brain?

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Like how do you guys figure out the partnership?

Speaker 4 (31:53):
We So we've always been pretty naturally.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
Benj always tends to figure out figure out how things
work or how we're going to do something, and I
always tend to go out and talk about it.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
So I'm a natural.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
I wouldn't even say I was extroverted in school, but
being the lead singer themed to be like the job
that I was like I could do that, And I'm
also very I don't like to spend time learning how
to do things. So if I I'm not going to
spend the time to learn how to play the guitar,
it took me twenty years to learn how to play

the guitar, and I think I have.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
Just worse add than he does. You can play guitar now, though,
yes I can.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
So. In all of our businesses, Bench tends to be
the guy who operates everything and creates the plans and
understands how everything you know operates really from every level,
whether it's figuring out the financial aspect of it.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Figuring out the operational day to day of it. And
I tend to be more in sales, so I love
to go out and talk to people. I love to
look look at partnerships, look at.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
All the things in dealing with interfacing with other people.
So we together, I think we make a good team.
Because he's not to say he doesn't go talk to
other people, but he's less interested in that.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Right. You're the sizzle, he's the steak.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
It's so funny because we're the same age and you
say ninety five and it's like, so that basically means
that you guys were in like just in tenth grade
or ninth tenth grade when you decided like, oh we're
going to be a band in a band and we're
going to be huge. That's just they're just going to
decide this now. So was your entire high school experience

more about band than it was about high school? Yes,
so you guys are like, get me the fuck out
of Maryland and we'll be playing arenas in four years.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah. And at that time, even if it.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
Wasn't get us out of Maryland, it was like, get
me to d C so I can be close to
the action because there was some punk bands there and
our parents had kind of unwant, you know, unraveled, so
they were busy dealing with their stuff.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
We didn't have anyone going what are your grades?

Speaker 1 (34:18):
You know?

Speaker 5 (34:20):
We had to get extra credits to graduate actually because
my grades were so bad. And we were working also
to help support my mom at the time, so we
both had jobs, so we were The band was all
kinds of things.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
It was our dream.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
It wasn't an escape, it was something to focus on.
I think it kept us out of a lot of trouble.
It gave us a feeling that there was something to
go for, which I think there was a lot of
value to that at that time, to like looking at
something that seemed impossible as possible. And because we were

working shitty jobs and it was very kind of adult
things we were dealing with. So the band was like
an incredible escape from a really kind of messy reality.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, so gravity Girl is the first single, But what point?
What point was it like holy shit, like this crazy experiment,
this sort of idea that we're going to become huge
is becoming a reality. Was there that moment where you
looked at each other like this is fucking crazy, Like
I cannot believe this?

Speaker 5 (35:27):
In nineteen ninety eight nineteen ninety nine was when we
had really kind of hit the local like peak local
size for the region, so for the mid Atlantic, for Pennsylvania, Maryland,
all the way up to New Jersey and New York.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
We had built this like really cool.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
Solid, big following and labels were interested.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
And so in ninety nine when we signed.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
Our first record deal, was that by then we kind
of knew that it was it was happening, and we
kind of had the bull by the horns and we
were just like felt unstoppable.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
We just felt like no one was going to stop us. Again.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
I go back to like having your partner built in
because the whole time. So we started the band in
nineteen ninety six, So so that was.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Only three years later.

Speaker 5 (36:16):
And the whole time, every time there was you know,
we would play like a house party and we thought
it was the greatest thing ever.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
We would get a gig at a bar, and we
thought it was the greatest thing ever.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
We would get you know, I mean, I remember, you know,
all kinds of all kinds of gigs where we were
doing anything it took to just get that just to
make that gig happen, whether we were rolling equipment from
our place to the gig on skateboards or like, you know,
whatever we were doing, everything felt as important as the

record deal, you know.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
And so we because we because we were cheerleading each other,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
We were like and you know, ever since we were
really young, I mean, we always shared a room. We
didn't have our own rooms until we bought houses, you
know what I mean, because it was cheaper to get
a place that we we we share a room. So yeah,
we did everything together and we shared a room, and
we were always talking.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
We were always sort of dreaming. We were always just
keeping each because it was like because it was hard.

Speaker 5 (37:16):
You know, it's like all these different jobs and one
little thing that's like you're one hundred dollars away from
being okay, and you're never and it's never there, you know.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
So so.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
Every day, every day just sort of life. You just
are cheerleading each other.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
You're saying, this isn't gonna matter one day.

Speaker 5 (37:33):
You know, one day we're gonna be you know, one
day we'll have a tour of us.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
One day we'll you know, we'll be. So just that partnership,
just like cheerleading each other the whole time. So so if.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
There was a moment where we really felt like it
was real, it was like legit, the first band practice.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, I think that's an important that's an important message
just for everyone honestly, artists or whatever anyone's doing is
it's real. It's an important from day one, as it
is still when you're you know, playing in front of
one hundred thousand people. You know, true, it's just the passion,
it's the desire, you know, it's just as.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
Important, and especially if you're met with yes every step
of the way, like don't turn a yes away, don't
don't see a yes as a no, because you know,
I think sometimes now there's an instant gratification into in
some things, especially digitally speaking, but.

Speaker 4 (38:30):
The work is still real. The work in real life
is the work. And so.

Speaker 5 (38:36):
I think to this day, we're still the same as
we were, but we have more experience and information and
resources than we had, but we're still the same.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
It's still the same energy. We still just.

Speaker 5 (38:50):
Get just as excited when whether it's one of our companies,
a little thing happens. We still get excited over any
yes that we receive when we take a step forward.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Will yeah, like moving into this new phase of your life.
I mean, you have stepped away from the band, but
is this was it was a conscious decision. You guys
have families, now you got kids. It was like, all right,
well that's going to take us on the road. That's
going to take us away from this foundation, especially going
back into the psychology of what you guys grew up with,

you know what I mean, just that sort of fractured family.
Did that play any part in sort of saying, well,
we're never going to fucking be like this. You know,
when we have our family, we're going to make sure
that shit sticks together and we need to be here
for them, you know, which is how you sort of
took that right turn into entrepreneurship.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
Yeah, big time.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
I think that you either model your life after or
you model it the opposite of, right.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
I think those are the two strategies.

Speaker 5 (39:52):
And some people have a great model and they follow
that and they succeed. Some people have a bad model
and they follow that and they fail. Some people do
the opposite of the great model and they fail. And
some people do the opposite of the bad model and
they succeed.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
So I always kind to say, it's simple, those are
poor choices.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
That's pretty much. There the only.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
Choices, and then you can you can modify little things.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
But the gist of it is you're modeling one of
four things, right, Yeah. And so so.

Speaker 5 (40:22):
I think that we with family went the opposite, and
we I think have been fortunate because we also have
partners who who I think are in the same mindset
and and so when we started all of our the
businesses we have today, uh, it was a big motivation

of it was to be home and just to have
families and to be able to be at our kids,
you know, to be at dinner and be there for
a kids.

Speaker 4 (40:52):

Speaker 3 (40:52):
And also I remember when when you were in Australia.
I remember you and I talking about like just how
hard it is to have that distance and managing the
kids and the thing. It's just it gets it gets hard,
and I think we all have the same thing, which
is when you come from kind of like tumultuous familial
background of like parents, you almost go to meet the

other direct, like almost so far, I know, Oliver and
I are like, it's the other direction, which is we're
so committed to our kids that like, I have anxiety
when I leave them to the point where I'm like,
it's the opposite where I'd be like, it's fine, like
I haven't left my kids' dad.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Bailed, Dad bailed, and you know, he did whatever the
hell it is that he did. But now it's just
for me. It's this fear that if I'm not at
every little thing, or if I'm not present in every
moment of theirs, that they're gonna be fucked up and
they're gonna have abandonment issues, which is so far from
the truth, because all of our children are so loved
and you don't have to be there twenty four to
seven for them to understand, feel and sort of take

in that love. But there is that trauma side of
me that is like, fuck, dude, if I'm not there,
if I'm not in every moment of their lives, then
they're screwed up and there's going to be so much
therapy that I'll probably have to pay for.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
And also and also for me, it's like that the
opportunities that I have not taken because I want to
be with my family, you know, is that such an
interesting thing to also? And then and then you know,
I don't regret any no.

Speaker 4 (42:28):

Speaker 3 (42:28):
I know you say like the yes, but I'm saying,
like any know of doing something when it comes to
be being able to be with my kids like I've
I'm so happy that I've been able to actually afford
to say no and to be.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
With you with my children. I'm with you on that.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
The weighing it all out and finding the balance is
like the the goal. But I think we're in the
generation of parents who constantly ask themselves, am I.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
A good parent?

Speaker 5 (42:59):
Because I think we can come from a generation of
parents who didn't. Actually the baseline was roof over your head,
food on the table, that's good parenting. I think we've evolved.
Now we're in this kind of generation of parents who
all come from that school, so we all experience a
similar somewhere in the world of a similar experience, and

I think that like we're all asking those questions. Am
I in touch with my kids experience?

Speaker 4 (43:27):
And am I a good parent?

Speaker 5 (43:29):
We like we all are, and we all probably have
stuff to work on like anyone else. But I think
like we do all ask the same questions, and probably
any parent listening is has had that I can't tell
if my kids are they having a good life or.

Speaker 7 (43:43):
They are you yeah, yeah, I mean I think for
our own insanity, we got to let that go though,
because there's so many times, especially my kid my oldest
is sixteen, so they're getting into this new phase in
his life where it's like, oh shit, I have to
do things a.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Little differently now. But am I doing this direct?

Speaker 3 (44:00):

Speaker 1 (44:00):
I have no clue, but just let it roll on.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
You know.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
I was watching this, this instagram of these kids on
the little circuit, you know, the thing at the playground
that you what.

Speaker 4 (44:18):
Is it called this?

Speaker 3 (44:19):
It's like yeah, but like you hold onto it and
the kids jump on and off of it, and it's
like if you were a kid in the eighties or nineties,
like is the meme and it's just kids fucking whipping
themselves around this thing, like flying off of it, like
no parents around. I was like, this would never exist

anywhere in the world right now, Like it just wouldn't exist.
There's a part of me that sometimes I'm like, maybe
we do need to whip they need to like without
without parents. Like I know, I'm the worst defender of that.
I'm like, I'm not gonna lie. So I have a question.
When you guys are in the height of success early

early on, was there any did you guys ever have
times where you were like had to take breaks from
each other, Like I always wonder with the twins, I
know we would be like that, like we would you know, Yeah, well,
if you're so into each other still connected, Like, is
there any times where you sort of had to figure
out like boundaries with each other or has it always

been pretty steamless?

Speaker 1 (45:24):
And then and then and then piggybacking that I've read
that you guys have actually done therapy together. Is that
that's that true? Yeah? Yeah, talk about that too. That's interesting.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
I think we just learned, like we I don't know
if we ever took a break from each other. We
we definitely still we talked morning, noon, and night, every
day of our life.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
That's just that's just how we.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
Occasionally, you know, not like a break like we took
a year where we didn't see each other, but like
I think, like through every phase of life, right Joel
got married and had kids before I did, he is
in apletely different place than me. There's a growing there's
a there's a re calibration that has to happen through
every phase of life. There's a recalibration where you have

to here's what we used to be, here's what we
are now. And and I think like when you you know,
when you you get married and have kids.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
That becomes priority number one.

Speaker 5 (46:18):
So so we're not each other's number one priority anymore,
you know, So so we're, uh, we have to recalibrate.
And and so there's probably like little periods of time,
a few months, little phases where you're having trouble communicating
or you're sort of like, you know, getting frustrated, but
you're really just you really just have to recalibrate. And

and so I think all along the way we had
to do that the whole time, I mean through even
just like being in the band together, really kind of
figuring out what our roles were, and then having the
business together, figuring out what our roles are and like
sort of readjusting to to that. To that in every
different sort of phase of life is just a natural

part of it. So yeah, would I don't know if
we took like actual like like you know, like we said,
we need a break for one another, I'll talk to
you in three weeks. But I think naturally we would
sort of you know, Joel would go, you know, he's
doing his thing right now, I'm gonna let him go
and do his thing. And or he's doing his thing
right now, I'm gonna let him do his thing and
then and then you know, we just sort of recalibrate,

you know.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
But but being partners.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
On Yeah, but is there like a moment when Joel
had kids, you know, where it is what it is,
that is what life does, and there's going to be
time that's taken away from that relationship that is an
extreme bond between you guys that then you that recalibration
is actually hurtful, not on purpose, but there feels like
there's some sort of a loss there in any way.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
Sure, absolutely, I think you both we both like sort
of probably it probably comes out more in like sort
of a in some way in some point, at some
points frustration and then at some points.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
Like where where you you.

Speaker 5 (48:01):
Kind of actually go, oh, you know what, because because
both of us want the other one to have the
right priorities, and the right priority really is your wife
and kids, So you you would kind of back off
and go, I'm gonna let him take care of his
you know, his business right now. And but then, if anything,
it was a good thing because you you you internalize

and you go, well, where am I? You know, if
I invested more time in sort of you know, this
work or that work and I wasn't investing the time
in finding you know, the right partner, then I have
to actually look at that.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
So that's another positive sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
When you have a partner where you have you can
you can look at something going on in their life
and go, you know, I think I need to invest
more time in in in you know, whether it's like
being healthy or or you know, a skill set or
or what does my life look like? And so I
think that, yeah, there there's definitely been times where we've
had to sort of we've had to sort of to

be you know, kind of not separate, but you know,
kind of take care of what we had to do
at that time. And and then you know, but we
But the thing, I think we made an agreement when
we were like sixteen, like when we started the band,
because this is how sure we were of ourselves.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
We were like, you guys, totally manifested. This this is
but so crazy is you're full like total man. You're
also pisces, which means you are manifestors. But but yeah, anyway,
I just had to say that when.

Speaker 5 (49:31):
We were sixteen, we made a deal that we would
always split every dollar.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
Whatever we ever made, no matter who did what.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
And never made that deal with my brother.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
I tried, I tried, I would never make that deal
with us, And certainly.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
Like that we would just be partners and everything, and
and certainly like we have both done other things that
I don't know that we hold each other to that
deal all the time as we're adults, you know, and
especially when you have your own families and stuff. But
it's definitely a deal that's held. It's the foundation of

of us. Like I think, there's never anything I'm doing
that I don't consider him my partner in whether he's
there in the room or he's worked, you know, and
we're we're out there working and we we we are
in the room with if you're in the room with me,
you're in the room with him.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
Mm hmm. What about there?

Speaker 1 (50:28):
What about you go through some of your businesses. We
have a little like just sort of this pivot from music,
Not that you pivot from music necessarily, you're still in
that world, but you know what was the inspiration behind
sort of moving away from touring and sort of you know,
getting more into the entrepreneurial spirit of well, let's make
let's have multiple businesses.

Speaker 5 (50:51):
I think that at the very core of it is
just like a more sustainable lifestyle, so to be able
to to you know, touring is very unsustained for family.
So I think that. But then I also think our
interests are are that the things we're working on. We
have a music company, so it's the management and artists

development company that we I'd say that's our core business.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
We just love it so much. We just love the.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
Working in music and our being around artists is just
our well, we'll enjoy it forever and ever. We get
to watch people's dreams come true every year, and it's
a really exciting the thing to.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
Get part of, yeah, and mentor our younger artists.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
And then we have a media company that you know,
is in magazines music magazines in the same kind of
realm of our manager company.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
It's rock and alternative and in the space print.

Speaker 5 (51:50):
And then we have another media focused company that's like
a livestream platform called Beeps that it's up for concerts
and live events though comedy and concerts. So those three
businesses are are really what we work on every day.
And Good Charlotte is kind of like a I feel

like today. It's this classic car we keep in perfect
condition in the garage and we like to take it
out sometimes and definitely drive it, and people like to
see it, but we're not We're never going to it's
never going to be a daily driver. I think anything
we do with Good Charlotte is always going to feel
special and exciting.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
And we really love still doing stuff with the band.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Right not writing new stuff that's not like a where
are you?

Speaker 5 (52:44):
We actually are going to make some music in this
coming year in twenty.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Yes, yes, my album's almost Dangel.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
Your album. I can't wait to hear it.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
I'm so I'm so excited for you to hear it,
because you've always been so supportive of me singing.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Well, you're fantastic.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
I don't want to go down this rabbit hole. But
but like no, no, no, you're I'm moving out of
your rabbit hole. But just with this whole because you
do live streams, you know, comedy, you know, and have
you been doing that for a minute now, sort of
almost at the forefront of it when I was reading
about it, you know, as far as when you started
that goes you look at this eras toward this Taylor
Swift shit that has come out and has completely destroyed

the box office, and now Beyonce is doing one. It
feels like there's going to be some sort of a
trend now when it comes to this stuff. I have
like producer friends who have bought old catalogs, you know
for film. Is this what's your feeling on that? Is
there inspiration behind it? Or do you think this is
like a degradation of sort of the concert as we

know it?

Speaker 4 (53:50):
No, So it's two different things.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
So a live show, there will never be anything that
replaces a live show. The magic of live music is
one thing. But what you don't realize when you're at
a concert. Is that actually more people don't go to
concerts than do, so more people in the world don't
have access to concerts period. And that's if every ticket
sold out everywhere, there would still be more people who

couldn't be at that concert and can't be at any
concert period.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
And that's just a fact. So it's a luxury to
be able to go to a live show, for sure,
and nothing can replace that. It's the thing you dream about.

Speaker 5 (54:29):
You want to see that person live, you want to
see that band, you want to see that artist live.
It's sort of like one day I want to go
to Disney World, you know what I mean, Like not
everybody gets to go to Disney World, you know, yeah,
but access to the live event and concerts and comedy
and other live events is actually something that people it

must have. So the same way we can now watch sports,
if you remember, in the nineties and the two thousands,
you watch whatever sport games on network television and cable,
but there wasn't an all access option for the people
who wanted to have it. And now, you know, with
music and live events, we're always kind of behind because

old models are kind of held on too tightly in.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
Music and entertainment, especially in music. So we're what we built.

Speaker 5 (55:22):
We started six years ago with this platform is now
turning into an entertainment platform. We're going into original content
and we do more live concerts than anyone in the world.
We've done more than anyone in the world. We are
absolutely this platform is the experts on live streaming concerts

and live and we see the future is people all
over the world, and whether it's India or South America,
or Europe or America. People who can't leave the house,
people who physically can't go to concerts, and people who
lookationally can't, and people who financially can't have access now

the same as they do to their sporting events. More
and more access to concerts and artists now and this
has changed in the last two years. Artists now feel
the need to stream at least one show from their
tour so that people can participate in that tour.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
And so it's the future. It's just it's coming, whether
you like it or not.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yeah, and now they can monetize their entire tour by
potentially you know, you can pay a ticket to go
watch it as well. Now with the live streaming. Now
we don't have to put this in going now in
my head. That's just I'm curious. Is there is there
real time directing as far as production value goes and
that stuff, or is it like static camera shots or
is it like I do have engineers pushing buttons.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
So it's real time directing. We also have AI.

Speaker 5 (56:51):
Programs that can direct. They're both actually good.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
We have. It depends on where you stream, how you stream.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
There's a lot of options for how you execute it.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
So fun. All right, let's do the rabid Fire because
we're I don't want to waste anybody's time, and let's okay.
Song of your childhood, define your childhood like that time?

Like what is like?

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Remember that Keith Green song? Yes?

Speaker 3 (57:29):
What was that my early childhood?

Speaker 5 (57:31):
There were a couple of songs. One was I Just
Called to Say I Love you Stevie Wonder.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Oh yes, Keith Green. It was called who Put This
Love in My Heart? It was like a Christian artist.

Speaker 5 (57:42):
I think my parents used to listen to him.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
You are richie and lean on me.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Lean on me.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Of course, because of lean on Me, I always think
of very.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Sad and remember the movie.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
Also remember House of the Rising Sun Animals? Yeah, nice
to play that all the time.

Speaker 5 (58:11):
That was like zero to like nine ten and then
or older, you know, would be more like the Beastie Boys.
Check so what you want?

Speaker 1 (58:26):

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Oh for me, it was can I Kick It? Tribe
to me is like my high school. Like I just
remember that song when that song came out. When you
hear that sample, that the lou Reed sample, I just
forget it. Yeah, over for me?

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Okay, who who would win in an if you guys
were putting in an octagon and you had to fight,
who who's winning that fight?

Speaker 7 (58:56):

Speaker 4 (58:57):

Speaker 5 (58:58):
You mean?

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah? Physically you gotta yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
H First, Ben is very very physical, great fighter.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Who's the better cook?

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Probably me? Really, I think.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
So we can put this to the test. Okay, if
you were going to rob a bank, who would go
in and rob the bank? And who would be driving
the getaway car?

Speaker 4 (59:27):
I drive the getaway car. Bene would rob the bank?
Benj Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:33):
Okay, he's definitely a trigger man. He's not afraid to
go a charge. I'm I'm thinking too much. Yeah. They
call him under pressure more than you. And but you
have a big picture vision.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Yeah, okay, I have a good one, and this includes
both of you. Guys, you get arrested, you're in jail,
you have one phone call. Who in your immediate family
is the first person you're going to call individually or
together together? You only have one phone call?

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
Is it okay?

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
So in the in our family, I feel like I
know who it is. Yeah, and you're it can be
It could be anything right now, anyone in your life,
in your life.

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
Yeah, it's Cameron.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Yeah, I was going to say one thousand percent.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
If she doesn't pick up, it's John Rosenberg.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Who's John Rosenberg.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
Is a dear friend. He's a lawyer, but he's also
like a very dear friend of her.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Does Nicole rank in the phone?

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
Nicole is like, she's a good call, but fifty fifty
it's fifteen to fifty.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
She has her phone in What.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
That's your answer? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
Likely, She goes, Oh my god, that sounds fun.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
Oh my god, that would be so Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
Listen, the truth about Nicole is she's down. If I
called her, Look, if she was the second call, I
just know Cameron is gonna charge in there and get
us right out, even if she has to break us out.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):

Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
If I call Nicole and say, listen, it's serious, I
need you to do this.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
She's doing it. She's so down.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
That's because Cameron can. Cameron can rob the bank and
drive the getaway car at the same time.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
She has literally been trained to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Okay, First celebrity crush, Mariah Carey.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Oh good woe.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
I'm trying to think, Ollie, what yours was Nicole? Nicole Eggert?

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah, from Charles in Charge back in the day. She
was on Baywatch like a long time after that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Mine was Corey Haim from The Lost Boys, but also
Key for some other one from the Lost Boy. Actually,
all of the Lost Boys, they were all my crush.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
No, Benji can't think of one.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Bench wasn't a big crush. You were like a big
crush guy. I was a little dreamier than you, was I.

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
Yeah, but I'm trying to think. I'm sure that I
had one. I was trying to you know who. I
always thought like.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
The mom on Fresh Prince of bel Air was really pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
She was. Okay, guys ready because we always end our
podcast with this, which is a two part question. First
part is if you could alleviate something from your brother's life,
if you could take something from them that you know

would kind of like give them more ease or or
be you know, have a more optimal experience through life.
What would that be? And then the second part of
that question is if you could emulate something that your
brother has, that that you would love to be able
to have a little bit more of in your life,
what would that be?

Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
Mmm, that's a good question here you go that and
I and I don't ever waste an answer. So if
I could alleviate anything from his life, you know what,
if I'm being honest, I've always felt like he's felt
responsible for me, and I've always kind of felt.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Always kind of felt like that whether I tried to or.

Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Not, and I would I would probably say less responsibility
for everyone because not just me, everyone, He's always kind
of been been that guy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Uh, and then he naturally just feels responfortable for everyone.
And what was the other question?

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Something that you could emulate that's something that you would
want from him, someone that you something that you love
about him that is like you wish you had more of.

Speaker 5 (01:03:59):
H He has a great ability to He's always very cool, calm, collected,
can get to things kind of elegantly quickly, and it
feels very.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
His brain is organized.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
It just feels like very He's quick to get through
a process and get to a direction and then go
without overthinking it. And I think there's something really elegant
and simple about the way he operates that I've always
kind of been jealous of. I think that I just
have a real true add and I'm always thinking probably

about a thousand things, and it's hard for me to
organize my brain sometimes the way it feels like he
can just pick a plan and attack it with everything,
whether it's working out or a business or anything.

Speaker 4 (01:04:54):
So there's a simplicity to it go on. That's very sweet, Joel.
I appreciate that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:05):
So I would say the thing if I could take
away from joelsa he you know, like improve his quality
of life. Probably he's always worried about if every like
he's always worried if he's like he wants to be
the best dad, and he's an amazing dad.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
He wants to be the best husband.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
He's an amazing husband, like a plus a plus, and
so everything he does is he's worrying like if he's
doing a good enough job, and he's always doing more
than a good enough job, you know. So, and I'm
always like, dude, you're doing great, like and he'll he
So he doesn't always take it in though. He's like
he wants to do he wants to do better, you know,

he wants to make he wants everyone to be happy.

Speaker 4 (01:05:49):
He's always worried about if everybody's happy, and.

Speaker 5 (01:05:53):
Probably comes from like our childhood because you like want
our parents to be happy, and it's like that was
a losing battle.

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
It's not going to happen, you know. So, so he's
always wants everyone to be happy.

Speaker 5 (01:06:01):
So and I'm always like, dude, everybody look at look
at us, man, we we everybody's happy, like you know,
it's not our houses are peaceful, everybody's you know. And
So if if you could, if I could just take
that away, and he wouldn't worry about that, and he'd
be a little bit more carefree, and and then and

what he what I could, what I wished I had
that he has in in in the most insane ability
of anyone I've ever met, just to like look up
and go oh yeah, uh we're gonna do that, or
I'm going to do that, or I want like to
dream up like the biggest thing and not even question it,
not even think twice about it. I'm immediately figuring out

like how the architecture is going to work, and and
and I can sometimes only get to like a couple
of levels up and Joel's already seeing like the skyline,
you know, and and and so that's something I definitely
have learned from. But he does it with such ease.
He's like, oh, yeah, we can do that. We'll do that,
you know. And and that's that's like it's almost like

a superpower in my mind. It's it's like just to
be able to just like dream something without even questioning it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
That's awesome, the best.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Yay, great guys, Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
You appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
That was so fun.

Speaker 5 (01:07:22):
It was so great, guys, Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
It's really good. Guys. Your story is so cool. I
didn't know it, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
And we're we we really cool stuff seriously, and we also,
like we usually do like we've had like sessions now
we've had like three hours with certain people. Were trying
to like really cut them down to an hour. And
it's hard because I have a million questions here, guys.
I have so many things that I'm going to ask
you offline, but this was just the best. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
Well, you guys, we.

Speaker 5 (01:07:56):
Have so many mutual friends and we see each other all,
you know, from time to time. I'm and I now
feel closer to you guys just from me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
I feel like I've known you guys and peripheral for
a time, you know. And it's funny how you said
I want to see in the very beginning, you know,
how you guys cover for each other when someone may
not know who's who.

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
It has literally made me avoid.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Both of you. I'm like, oh shit, God, I'm just
gonna walk away because I don't want to be the
asshole who doesn't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
You can see, it's so easy to tell them about
now you can.

Speaker 5 (01:08:32):
Tell Yeah, And it's really not offensive to us when
people do think we're each other. But I think, I
think it's really great to have these conversations because I
think people listening a lot of times, families can be
very passive, aggressive to each other. They don't know how
to share and care. And I think we had to
learn that over time. But it took us, you know,

our own time. But like diibblings should communicate because when
they don't they're missing out on a really great and
valuable resource in their life.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
Uh, to depend on anything you want to do in life,
you're better shot.

Speaker 5 (01:09:10):
You have a better shot at doing it with you
with a partner that you that you you can trust,
that you know, and like you have to set your
sights on something. So like if you want to have
a good relationship with your sibling, just like I think
our biggest dream in the world was to have loving,
peaceful family. So we both wanted to be married. We
both want to have kids, and like we we had

to figure out how to like how that worked, and
so we looked for good models, and we look for
families that like seem to have more you know, like
they have a shot at sticking together.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
Those people seem like they got something figured out.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
And and like if you don't, if you have a sibling,
you actually have to say, I want to be close
to you, like I want to figure out where's that
spot where we get stuck, where's the spot where we argue,
where's the spot where we fight? And and I think
it's a practice. You know, you really got to like,
you know, this podcast is great, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Well that's we started. It was like it's such an
important relationship that is never really discussed or talked about,
but it's it's just such an important one, you know,
and there's too many siblings who just do not talk
to each other, who are completely you know, sort of
living totally separate lives and have no regard for each other.

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
It kills me, it really, it's so sad.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
And I also feel like you, you know, there's a
way to get to know someone, you know, a one
on one, but when you get to know someone through
their siblings' eyes, you get a completely different perspective of
that person. You know, when you sit and you listen
to siblings talk about each other and laugh about stories,
and like you just there's nothing there's nothing more sort

of eye opening about who that they are as people.
You know, you see them who they are.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Yeah, it's a tribe within a tribe in a sense,
you know, because you have your tribe, your big family tribe,
and then the siblings of their own little you know,
sort of offshoot, you know, like me, you Boston and
Wide are sort of sitting around drinking and laughing. It's
if you feel this synergy disconnectedness that is not separate
but just a little sort of just a little arm,

a little branch from that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:15):
True, especially siblings that come from broken homes when the
damage is done when you're young. I feel like, not
enough of us. It took us too long, even us.
I think you've got to salvage what you can. You
do build your new family, and you can choose your family.
You can choose friends that you get close to, but

you can salvage some things from your family and keep
and reimagine what that family doesn't always have to be
broken or feel sad.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
What's of that right now? Literally that I'm working with
my dad and he's with the other other siblings now
to bring it all together.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
I had this moment last year where I was like,
I don't know why I don't talk to my other siblings,
Like I don't care what the history is with my
with our parents, but like that's my and especially me,
who has no sisters, right I don't and I do.
I have two sisters that I don't speak to for
no other reason except that our family separated. And my

sister and I and my brother we've all just started
communicating again. And honestly, I got on the phone with
my sister and we just started bawling our eyes out.
We're like, what else. It was so great, It was
so great, and so you know, and then she even
said it. She's like, it's we start now, just start now. Yeah.

Well cool, thank you guys that I'll see you so
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