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January 25, 2024 61 mins

Former porn star Jenna Jameson is an enigma. Seen by millions, but few know the woman behind the headlines.Find out what attracted her to the world of adult entertainment as a teen, and why she wasn't met with much resistance- not even from her own family.

And, what happened when that freedom led her to the darkest corners of the industry? Plus, how has porn changed through the years and what does she REALLY think about OnlyFans? 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling raivalry.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth. Revelry.
That's good, Pollie, Kate, this is a.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Big day for a lot of people. We are about
to introduce an icon.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, actually yes.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
And this is one of my revel and it's because
I've been reveling.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, well yeah for a long Jenna Jamison, for you
is almost a huge part of your I guess, like manhood.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, I mean my life.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well now I'm I'm really intrigued because I I'm always
sort of intrigued as to how people get into adult
film industry and what sort of motivates them. And Jenna Jamison,
I think didn't she have didn't she like, wasn't she
the first one to kind of produce and she was
a pioneer in videos, right she sort of.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think that she she.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Actually made a real business out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
She's a businesswoman who said all right, well you know
you're not going to take You're not just going to
take control of me. I'm not just for higher like
I know what my worth is and I'm going to
sort of capitalize on.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, I'm excited to just learn pretending from everything.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
And I don't you know, I do respect her.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
She is of the time. Really, you know, it was
was such a big name, like even you know, the
sort of crossover because I I guess at that time
it was VHS, wasn't it. So when she started, it
wasn't like you had the sort of internet, so there
was really a few kind of like households.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
There were real stars. The industry obviously has changed tremendously.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
All Right, Well, I'm excited to bring her on. So
talk to Jenna.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
I met her one time my bachelor party.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yeah she won't remember, she won't remember.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, it was in Vegas and she was there and
I was like I just went up to him, like, oh,
my god, like it's my bachelor party. I just want
to say hello. Yeah, and I probably name dropped you.
I definitely name Droph My god.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I love you.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
We were just I know, I know, we were just
doing our little intro on you and I was saying
I actually met you. I had my bachelor party in Vegas.
And I think you were with your first husband or something,
and I was like, I have to say hi, and
I said hi and all that. But of course I
name dropped Kate because I read in a magazine and
entertainment weekly or something that like, oh, Kate Hudson's one
of my favorites.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Thank you for saying that. I'm so excited to meet
you and talk to you about your life. I'm sure
it's I mean, from on the outside looking in, it
seems like it would be wild. And so I can't.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Wait an all of great adjective.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
We Oliver and I we have this thing for for
our show where we say we revel in it. And
Oliver was like, I really want to bring on Jenna
Jameson and and I'm just excited to get to know
a little bit about you.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, I read your first book. You know, I know
I know a lot. You know what I mean, you
know it was it was it was a lot. Yeah,
it was a lot. And then even more so. And
we'll get into all this, but you know there's you're
an icon in the sense, not that you were just
an adult film actress, but you knew you were worth
in the industry and said fuck off. Basically, you're not

(04:02):
just going to use me for what I can do.
I'm going to monetize and capitalize on my business sense
and I'm going to own my shit right And you were.

Speaker 5 (04:10):
Well, first, weren't used to that sort of thing in
my industry, and I saw an opening for a woman
that had some sort of IQ, and I applied that
and it worked. I was shocked, to be honest. I
didn't think I was going to go very far because
I had so many parameters and rules and regulations to

(04:32):
what I would do on film. And to my surprise,
they agreed to it. They gave me what I demanded.
And I think it's set precedent for a lot of
girls in the industry that were the commodity were the
important ones, and you do what you're comfortable with and

(04:52):
everything falls in line thereafter.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Also, the adult film industry must be so radically different,
oh now than it was twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
I don't even know what it's like anymore, you know.

Speaker 5 (05:04):
I sometimes get girls that message me and they're like, well,
what would you do in this instance? And I'm like,
it's out of my realm of thinking. I don't even
understand everything that they're having to do now.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's just a.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Different day and age because it must have been a
really small community and now sort of globally it's probably just.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Like well, I mean the advent of just the technology,
you know, webcams, you know, now porn is watched in
little bytes, you know what I mean. There's no longer
stories and things, some large productions, you know, which was fun,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Become a star nowadays, like back in my day, back.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
Stone age, you had to have charisma and acting skills
and be competent in interviews. Now there is no place
for that. So I mean there's something to be said
for it, and I love that a lot of girls
are capable of doing it without having to you know,
jump through the hoops. I jumped through, but I missed

(06:12):
the days of they're being polish.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah no, I know, I know. And now you get
an OnlyFans and someone can make a million dollars in
two in a month. Yeah, I mean, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
I mean, just I swear like if that was around
in my day, I don't even know how my career
would have panned out. Yeah, As when I was working,
there was a very small pool of women that were
capable of doing what I was doing. Now it's just

(06:47):
so watered down that it pretty much changed all of
porn all together. So it's it's sad in a way
for me because I, I don't know, I felt like
I'm going to turn this into like more like the movies,
like real movies, and now it's just different, and you know,

(07:11):
it's just the way the world works now.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah, Well, let's can we start it from the beginning,
for for for those who are discovering Jenna Jamison on
our on our podcast, Where Where where were you born?
Where did you grow up?

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Las Vegas?

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Oh so you're Vegas Sin City girl?

Speaker 2 (07:32):
And you're Italian, aren't you?

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yes? I am.

Speaker 5 (07:34):
My real name is Jenna Mozzoli. Yeah, oh you're Mazzole,
you know, like you're Italian. That is very Italian Mazzoli.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Jenna Marial Mazzoli.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
And and did you was your upbringing? Was it like
a traditional upbringing? Was it? Did you have a good
relationship with your family? Your parents were your mom and
dad together.

Speaker 5 (07:58):
And starting from the beginning, I was raised by my father.
My mother passed away when I was two from cancer,
and my dad was a fantastic father. He allowed me
a lot, but also had a lot of rules for me.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
So I grew up like having worth.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
And my father was a police officer, so you know,
I had to act right. So I was really good
in school. I was a cheerleader. I everything that you
would expect from someone that looks like me.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
And then and then, right around.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
My sophomore year in high school, I started turning into
a hot chick.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Like I went from.

Speaker 5 (08:52):
Like nobody ever looked at me to everybody was like, wow,
look at Jenna's she's different now. So I was like, Okay,
how do I capitalize on that? I guess that's how
my mind has always worked. So I thought, wow, I've
got these great boobs and they're brand new.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Let's do this.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
So I started stripping, like so like just like, how
old were you when you started stripping?

Speaker 5 (09:26):
Well, it wasn't legal, I will say that, but I
was always ten years ahead in my brain, so that
never even deterred me at all. I just thought about
the money and how I would compound upon that.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
I was like, this is a good jumping off point.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
Now that that is not a good jumping off point
for everybody out there, Like.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Anymore.

Speaker 5 (09:56):
So I was just able to turn it into something big,
and for a lot of people out there, this is
something that would kind of it could ruin you easily. Nowadays,
I just knew how to catapult myself out of just
being a porn star into being a personality.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
So so you went from stripping and then what was
that when when? Like when were you approached.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Pretty supportive of all this? Well, maybe I got that wrong.
I kind of remember in the book, I kept.

Speaker 5 (10:33):
My father in the dark because I was kind of
the golden child. He was like, you know, my daughter,
she's so smart, she's so pretty and capable.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
And I remember.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
Going and trying out at the Crazy Horse too here
in Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
And not my dad not knowing.

Speaker 5 (10:54):
And I finally once I got the job and I
was like, I was making tens of thousand dollars a
night and I was in high school.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
He started looking at me like, Jenna, what's going on?

Speaker 5 (11:10):
And I finally just sat down and said, Dad, Okay,
this is what I'm doing. And I've always been so
level headed that my dad looked at it like, listen,
if you're going to do this, because he knew he
couldn't stop me if he said, if you're going to
do this, I want you to keep your head on straight.
You know, no drugs, no running around, no all hours

(11:34):
of the night with different men. I just want you
to handle your business and you go to school. So
I was going to school it during the day and
stripping at night.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
So then, okay, so how were you approached, Like, were
you approached by someone for adult film? Was it something
that you got into it?

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Kind of like.

Speaker 5 (11:59):
I remember being on stage and a girl was watching me,
and she wasn't watching me like a normal customer. She
was like, like really looking at me. And after I
got off stage, she approached me and said, Jenna, you
know you're you have something really special. I would love
to photograph you. So I was like, well, what kind

(12:22):
of photographs? Like what are we talking about here? And
she was like, yeah, there's there's a lot of openings
for like adult magazines. And I was like, okay, let's go,
you know, because I knew that that was another stepping
stone towards stardom.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
That's what I thought in my young head.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
And so I just started doing NUDI magazines and I
think my first magazine was.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Penthouse what was your what was your as a kid?
What was your dream?

Speaker 4 (12:53):
Like?

Speaker 2 (12:53):
What did you want to be when you grew up?

Speaker 5 (12:55):
I wanted to be a ballerina, a showgirl like my mother.
My mother was a last biggest show girls. Oh wow, yeah,
but I never got the height.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Do you remember your first sort of now now? Was
there ever? Let me go back a little bit. Was
there ever a moment where you felt like, you know,
as a as a woman. You know, I know that
for me, I'm trying to empathize or put myself in
your shoes of sort of being so outwardly open and
with your body and sexual you know, was there ever

(13:30):
a moment where you were like, I don't I don't
like the way this feels, or am I am I
going too far?

Speaker 5 (13:39):
You know?

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Like if I cross over into this, is that like
does it just get crazier and crazier and crazier?

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Like did you ever.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
Get what you're saying? Yeah? I think that that would
be a normal feeling for most people. But for me,
I had gone through some pretty terrible situations when I
was younger, and I always felt like I needed to
take that power back my sexuality, my body. I didn't

(14:11):
want anybody else to be exploiting it. So I felt
by me being the one saying Okay, I choose to
do this, I choose to it was under my control.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
So you know, through years.

Speaker 5 (14:28):
Of therapy, I realized that I did that in order
to take it back from the people that had taken
it from me when I was younger.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
So it's interesting because sometimes it's kind of dark. It's dark,
but but it's process. Yeah, but it's interesting because sometimes
when people go through the things that you might have
gone through, they spiral into a place and feel, you know,
less empowered where you used it, almost your sexuality to
empower you in a sense, right.

Speaker 5 (15:00):
And also, you know, with writing my book, I was
able to explain because you know, throughout my whole career,
I've had a lot of feminists that are like, you know,
you're adding to this, You're you're feeding the beast. And

(15:23):
I was able to explain that this is a way
of empowering myself. And I think that that put things
into perspective for a lot of women out there that
have gone through the same thing, and they see a
different avenue than just saying Okay, I'm gonna find God

(15:44):
and shut everything down and not be myself. I embraced
who I was and I hit.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
The gas pedal.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, it's funny when when when you talk about when
when people talk about sexuality, and especially the adult film

(16:14):
industry and the sex industry, it can be very complicated
because obviously there's a lot of women in the in
the sex industry that that they're they've either been forced
in there or by circumstance. It's very dark, dark circumstances,
So it does become kind of that that challenging. Now, yeah,

(16:36):
it's it's it's but there are also there is also
room for women who really enjoy the process of being
a part of you know, an adult film or or dancing.
So it's it's I think that's that's why it's always
so polarizing.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
It really is because I think from an outsider's perspective
to you automatically look at women in my industry as victims,
like something had to have happened in order for a
woman to do this, and on some level, everything.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
We do is because of what's happened to us.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
Right, So I knew that I was going to be
hit with you know, you're a victim, you've been traumatized
and this is your coping mechanism. And when I wrote
my book, it was so important to me to show
how I was able to heal by taking it back,

(17:36):
by controlling everything because I am a control free so
I was in control of who was hired, who I
worked with, the producers, the companies I was contracted with,
all that.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I had a hand in absolutely everything.

Speaker 5 (17:54):
So I thought by showing that and you know, talking
about it my book, that it would give kind of
a guide to girls that it's not wrong to do
these things. You just have to stay true to who
you are and what you're comfortable with.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
So when people come to.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
Me and say, oh, you know this is it's so
sad what you went through and what happened, it's so
important for me to let people know that these are
my choices and I'm comfortable with it. And as long
as I'm comfortable with it, that's all that matters.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
What were your parameters, what were your what were what
did it? What was the kind of you know, like
if you were doing a contract, there was a lot.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
I My big thing was that I had a list
of very few people I would work with for a
very huge amount of my career, I only worked with
my partners, and which was about two or three that
I went from relationship to a relationship as a young girl.

(19:09):
So and I would only have a certain amount of
people on set. It would be just the cameraman, the
sound guy and that's it.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
So it felt.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
More intimate unless I don't know. I just I don't.
Contrary to popular belief, I am a very introverted person.
So it took everything I had to do what I did.
So I kept close sets. I okayed all the scripts,

(19:45):
a lot of the scripts I wrote. I just I
wanted everything to feel very personal, and that helped me
to be able to do it and come across like
I was actually an enjoying it because to me, there
was nothing worse than watching a movie.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
And you can just tell that she's somewhere.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Else right and you know, well, I was going to
ask you that, actually, why do you think you became
such a massive star and an icon in this industry?
Why do you think you did? What's the special sauce?
So to speak?

Speaker 5 (20:24):
Yeah, I think well, I think that it was a
lot of timing. The industry was ready for someone like me,
But I also was really myself. I when I worked,
you could tell I was enjoying what I was doing, and.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
There was just a connection.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
You know, I've grown and I've you know, grown into
a woman and changed my mother all those kind of things,
and now I look back at it like it's a
different person. But at that time I really put forth
who I was and people connected to that.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
You know.

Speaker 5 (21:08):
I think that because I had so many rules, you
really got who I was.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
With the movies that I put out.

Speaker 5 (21:18):
It was me for sure, because I okayed the scripts.
I was like, I'm not saying that.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
So yeah, And did you enjoy being like an object
of fantasy for like a random person walking down they
see you and they're like, oh, she is my fantasy.

Speaker 6 (21:36):
Like I'd always like without the person out, without any connection,
because it is sort of like you look at just
to it becomes sort of like the connection obviously is
something that you don't know.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
But but yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
Mean, was that something you actually enjoy the surface level?
I really liked it because I was always such an
ugly duckling growing up. I was very awkward and I
was like the smart girl. So it was nice to
be like wanted like people look at me like wow,

(22:11):
But I always felt very disconnected from that. So for me,
it was I just loved that I was going into
an industry that women were looked at for the surface,
and I was going to change that. I wanted people
to look at this, to look at my movies, read
my literature, all all those things, and I.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Wanted them to be like, Wow, there's so much more
to this girl.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Mm hm.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
So I know a lot of women in the industry obviously,
and they always have so much more to offer, and
they're not given that, you know, any chance to show
that beyond their body.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, what was your So you went, you did the magazines,
but do you remember like when it transitioned into on screen?
I thought, was that what was that moment?

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I remember.

Speaker 5 (23:08):
A few magazines had come out, and I was contacted.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Fairly quickly, like within.

Speaker 5 (23:18):
Days of my magazines coming out by Randy West.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Oh yeah, Up and Comer.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Dating myself here.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
But I remember it was the Up and Comer series. Yeah, yeah,
the Up and Comer series.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
It was great.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
I didn't realize at the time, like how important that
was going to be.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
I love that, you know it.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Of course, that guy was such a weird looking dude
to like Ali very secretly probably knows all of your work.
So the thing about Randy West was he had the
weirdest dick too.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
It was like it was a weird and he was
always so tan. He looked like he lived on Venice
Beach in the eighties.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
It was totally like seventies five. Yeah, it was seventies five. Yeah.
I definitely had to disconnect on some level.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
No, I know, well, I already knew the question when
I asked it because honestly, and this is me being a fan, like,
it's so obvious why you became a star, just even
from that first scene, because it's funny you say that
how disconnected you were, but you were so not as

(24:38):
perception goes of what everyone is watching. You know, you
can't help but look at that seeming to be like
holy shit, like who is that person? You know?

Speaker 5 (24:47):
Yeah, you know a lot of people say that to me,
and I'm still pretty disconnected from that because I don't
fuel my own star quality. I just kind of do
what feels natural, and it worked out for me. It
definitely worked out for me. But I remember going into those.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Scenes him, how was that like just scared?

Speaker 5 (25:15):
Like I was just like, okay, gonna turn it on,
turn it on, and.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
I I, god, I'm so I can't even imagine watch it.
I just can't even imagine what that must feel like, Like.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Well, it's such an iconic scene.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
Talk about jumping off a clip, it's.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
An iconic scene, so like I'm so fascinated, like especially
being your first one with this weird dude. It's all
orange and tan, you know, with a cheesy little mustache.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
And she just said, I got to prove.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Something, right now, I'm going to show people what I'm what.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
I'm saying, and I think that I don't know how
much I can say. But the scene became so iconic
because there were well to pull finishes oh so, and
nobody had really seen that before, right, And I was
pretty shocked, to be honest, I.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Was like, you know, but.

Speaker 5 (26:11):
You know, I knew after those few scenes because I
had done.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
A girl girl what we call girl girl.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
And then did you know, a boy girl with him,
and after that boy girl, I was like, I think
I found my niche like, I think I think I
might be good at this. And because at first it
was the only reason why I did it was obviously
like the money was insane. What he paid me, and

(26:46):
I was like, Okay, this isn't going to be that
big of a deal.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
It's kind of like a one time thing.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
And then I realized, hey, this this could be big.
I could I could like catapult myself through this because
the minute I did that movie, I was approached to
become a contract girl with wicked pictures and vivid videos.
So I was like, oh my gosh, I could become

(27:13):
a really big star in this industry. And then from that,
I could, you know, write it into mainstream because in
my day, everything was dependent on your mainstream merge.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
So I knew that.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
I had it in me to host something or be
in movies. I never thought I was that great of
an actress, but I was like, you.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Know, let me, let me try.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
So from there, I ended up getting scouted by the
E Channel and hosting a show called wild On.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
For that right, and then you were with Stern. Yeah,
private parts.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
That was so much fun. Like Howard was pivotal.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, he's he's like my idol. I fucking love him
so much. I still listened to him every day.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
So many people don't really realize what kind of a
man he is because on camera he's wild. Yeah, but
he really he's just such an angel.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
He's such he's so lovely.

Speaker 5 (28:20):
Remember first meeting him and being on his show and
him taking me aside afterwards and saying, you have that,
you have it, and I'm going to help you. And
I so wasn't used to anybody helping me that. When
he said that, I was just like, you know, wow,
like I am now dedicated to this person.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
And I was on a show I don't even know
how many times.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, after that.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
And then you put me in his movie.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
And then after the scene after the up and comers
like Randy West scene, when that was all done, was
there a feeling of I can fucking do this? Or
was there any like drop in depression of sort of
like holy fuck, what did I just do?

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Oh no, there was no going back.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
You were like just I was like all.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
I could think of was I'm going to dominate this industry.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah. I was just about to ask that, like, did
you have this motivation of like, holy shit, wait a minute,
I'm not just this one scene. Wonder I can fucking
take over this industry.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
I remember the dialogue in my brain.

Speaker 5 (29:27):
I hated the fact that it was so male ruled
it was ruled by men, and I wanted to change that.
I was like, let me at this and I'll start small,
and I will and you know, look at I ended
up owning my own company and having my own contract

(29:50):
girls and changing things for girls. You know, the first
movies I did, in comparison to the movies I produced
with other women as my contract girls, it's.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Night and day.

Speaker 5 (30:03):
So how much felt like I was able to do
what I set out to do, and that was to
you know, give some sort of validity.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
And how much did the patriarchy of this industry sort
of push against you trying to be what you became?

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Big big, big, big big?

Speaker 2 (30:31):
And how did you face that? What did you do?
You just kept punching.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Basically, Listen, I'm a pretty formidable person.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
And I remember having meetings with you know, big time,
big time people and just steamrolling, you.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Know, because I understood the back end.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Of it right nice.

Speaker 5 (30:59):
Yeah, So I just I knew what I had to do.
I held true to my beliefs, and I conquered it.
And then once I had started, like the mainstream started knocking,
then I had all the power. Right then, I was like,
okay for me to do a movie. It's this much

(31:20):
money and it was unheard of in my business.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Then did you Were you the pioneer of sort of
owning your having your own contract girls and you know,
being separate from sort of the bigger conglomerates.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
Well, here's the thing is, there were companies obviously that
had contact girls prior to me coming on the scene,
but it just was a different dynamic. I I made
demands that were unheard of. I remember writing contracts and

(31:51):
putting things in just to test the waters, just to
see will they agree to this? And they did and
that kind of set the stage for all the girls
that came after me.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Was there anyone that you looked up to, like when
you started in the industry that you were like, oh,
I like the way she's handled her career an adult
film or was there no one that had that at
the time.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
No, I mean I really was flying blind. I mean
there were contract girls that were absolutely stunning.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
I remember, you know, seeing.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
People like Janine and a few of the Vivid girls
and just thinking they're just incredible. These women are incredible
and I love their power and how they come across.
But nobody was negotiating contracts the way I knew I
could because I had a business mind, and nobody expected it,

(32:51):
like I took them by surprise. So I realized pretty
early on that I had the books, I was able
to be a contract girl caliber looks wise, but they
just didn't know what was underneath, which was a pretty
shrewd business mind.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
So so when did it start to kind of when
did you start to look at your career and go
it might be time to hang it up, like put
it aside? Was it was it? You know? And and
also as a second part to that question, I mean
obviously looks and physicality and body image and all of
those things, you know, did you feel the pressure to

(33:35):
have to maintain that, keep that up? And you know
what has the aging process been like throughout a longer podcast?

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Okay, for your first question.

Speaker 5 (33:52):
I listen, I just kind of I'm a gut person
where I just kind of knew what I needed to
do and I never second guessed myself. So but when
it came to looks and all of that, there was
there was incredible pressure. Obviously, It's kind of just like

(34:15):
the modeling world, you have to you know, stay in well,
especially as a contract girl, you have to stay in shape,
and I just it always, luckily enough, came pretty natural
to me because I was young and active and all
those kind of things. So and I didn't work often.

(34:36):
I mean in my contracts, I think at the I
would work four times a year, So it wasn't a
huge amount of work, right, Most of my work was
just being on the road promoting all the stuff that
I was doing. So I just I feel that I

(34:57):
was incredibly blessed, Like all the timing was very right
for me, and I don't know if it could ever
be emulated, because it was the right time.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
I was the right girl.

Speaker 5 (35:11):
I made the right decisions and it worked out, thank god,
you know. And I think an interesting part of this
whole thing is that a lot of people ask me, like,
how did you transition out?

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Like you said, I I spent a long time.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
Proving myself to be worth more than just being a
beautiful body.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
I was able.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
To gain traction in the mainstream world when it came to,
you know, being able to use my brain. So thank god,
I saw that in the beginning that I had to
establish that and people could count on me.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
I was smart and I showed up.

Speaker 5 (36:09):
I was never late and I handled business and now
that you know, life has happened, children have happened, relationships
have happened.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Now I'm kind of it's come full circle.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
Now and I'm like back and it feels good. I
don't know, life is just funny.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Well, you had some health stuff. I want to get
into that serious health. So we got I want to
wrap up this this part of your life because I
want to get into that. I'm so fascinated by what
the fuck happened?

Speaker 3 (36:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Crazy. But but first of all, do you once you
left and hung up the cleat, so to speak, was
there anything that you missed? Is there anything that you
sort of you know, longed for in the industry? Yeah?
Or once you hung them up, you're like, I'm done,
this is it?

Speaker 1 (37:03):
No?

Speaker 5 (37:04):
I was so ready, and you know, my dad always
told me, if you get an inkling that's something like
it's just not.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Sitting right, get out. Yeah, don't let it play out.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
And I felt like my career had kind of run
its course and it's important to go out when you're
on top, don't let things wind down. So I think
it's kind of a famous moment when I went up
on the Avan Awards and said, I will never spread
my legs.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
In this industry, and I meant it. I was done.
I was finished.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
And it was so shocking to people that I was
at the pinnacle of my career. And I loved that
idea of like being a superstar and saying I'm done
and moving on.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Did you when you did your last scene? Did you
know it was your last scene? Yes? You did?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
I did.

Speaker 5 (38:11):
Wow, And I mean I it was like it every
day for me. It was like, let me get this done,
let me show them what they're going to miss and uh.
And I just walked off set and I was just.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Like, ah, I'm done.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (38:30):
I love being like the master of my own destiny.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
I just you know, I do what I say and
I say what I do.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
So so one more question. I want to get to
the back half of your life so far the heart
give what's the story of the heartbreaker tattoo? I got? Like,
how did that happen?

Speaker 3 (38:49):
It's like breaker tattoo on a tush.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
It's like the most iconic tattoo and porn.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Oh it's on your tush, right, it's on the button.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, And it's like it's you know, it's again iconic.

Speaker 5 (39:05):
It is it is, And when I got it, I
didn't think it would be iconic. I had no clue
because I was very young when I got it. Shouldn't
have been getting a tattoo. But leave that up to me.
My dad all my life said to me, Jenna, you're
you're going to be a heartbreaker. And I never really

(39:28):
understood what that meant. I was just like, oh, it's
like my little Moniker.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
And I got it.

Speaker 5 (39:37):
When I was in my teens, and it was just
kind of what I was known for was being a
little heartbreaker. And I don't think it was about breaking
boy's hearts. It was more like I just kind of
went against the grain all my life.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
I was like, I I.

Speaker 5 (39:58):
Just did what I want it and it broke hearts.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Amazing.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Well, let's get into what's been happening now in your life.
I mean, you know, when you when you when you
decided to retire from adult films, then would you take
a break? I mean, did you? What did you start
to do?

Speaker 5 (40:22):
It's kind of a hard transition because once you're known
for that, it's it's really hard to like be known
for anything else.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
And I don't think you really can.

Speaker 5 (40:35):
And I realize that now because I'll forever be Jenna Jamison.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
And I I.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
Really just wanted to have a normal life, as normal
as I could. So I decided I was going to
have like, get married and have children and try to
live a very easy mom lifestyle.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
And were you able to accomplish that? I mean, is
that is that?

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yeah? So that's kind of it.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I mean I'm not successful with men.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Well, you don't need to be anymore. You found the
love of your life.

Speaker 5 (41:14):
Right, Yeah, my picker is really broken when it comes
to men. I mean I should have done that from
the beginning.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
But yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
Got married and realized, okay, wait, that's not a good idea.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Divorced. Then got with Tito Ortiz, who I mean, he's
he's special.

Speaker 5 (41:44):
And he's the father of my twins. And my boys
are absolutely amazing. They're just fantastic kids and they're big
boys now. And horribly relationship didn't work out.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Uh, and then you know, my life is like it's
like a book.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
There a couple of them, right, I need to get right.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
For another book, I think.

Speaker 5 (42:17):
But yeah, I just like once that happened, it I
was like, well maybe maybe I am gay because that
That's always been in the back of my.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Mind, like, am I just with men? Because I want children?

Speaker 5 (42:37):
That that was like my main driving force was I
wanted my babies. I wanted to be a mother. It's
I've always been really maternal. So once that fell apart,
I was like, well, I mean I've got to start
looking inside and really am I gay? So I dated

(42:58):
a few girls and I was like, oh, okay, this
is awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I love this.

Speaker 5 (43:02):
And then that maternal thing came knocking again, and I'm like, well,
maybe Tito just wasn't the.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Right guy for me.

Speaker 5 (43:14):
And I ended up, you know, with my daughter's father,
and it was a beautiful experience. I got a taste
of so many different things culture wise.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
He's Israeli, so in order to have a Jewish.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Baby, the mom has to be Jewish, which is beautiful.
So I converted. So that was like a year long
study because I converted Orthodox.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
So if you were a practicing Orthodox asolute, you have.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
To you have to practice for a year before they
will even consider you to convert.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
So I had to live the full lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
It was not easy.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
That's difficult at all.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
But I accomplished it, and.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
My baby was born little Jewish princess, and because I
think really it didn't come down to the religion that
was important to me. For her, it was more citizenship
in Israel because if you're born Jewish, you automatically get
citizenship in Israel. So her, you know, her father, his

(44:42):
whole family lives there, and I wanted her to have
that choice. So that's really where it kind of stemmed,
is I wanted my child to have every opportunity.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
So yeah, it was really amazing though educational, I mean,
whatever happens happens. But even going through that, you've done
something that most people have never done or experienced, you know,
in more ways than one.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
So what happened with your with the health issues? Because
I know I remember seeing something about it on one
of those magazines.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah, I mean I've read I've read it on it too.
Where nine months in the fucking hospital, no one knows
what's going on, You're like, I'm.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Out of here it Well, how did you end up
in the hospital in the first place?

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Okay, So it all started.

Speaker 5 (45:44):
Like I just started collapsing and I had no idea why,
like just lost all mobility and was collapsing in the
shower and finally I was alone and I had to
call an ambulance because I couldn't get up, and went

(46:10):
to the hospital and they ran literally hundreds of tests,
spinal taps, cat scans, MRIs, all the things, and they
couldn't put their finger on it, and they kept diagnosing

(46:30):
me with something different. And I don't know if you,
I'm sure you understand that, Like when they give you
a diagnosis that is kind of a death sentence, it
kind of it messes you up, like it I checked
out when they initially diagnosed me with guillom beret, and

(46:55):
that is a death sentence, and it was incredible, frightening.
And I lived with that diagnosis for about a month
and a half in the hospital and they were giving
me all these treatments ibig, all these different infusions and everything,

(47:15):
and my cell count wasn't getting better. So they were like, well,
maybe that's not the problem. And I'm like, wait, there's
a possibility of me not having it, and thank god
I didn't have that. So they started running another battery
of tests and.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Came to a few conclusions.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
I had very elevated white blood cell counts, a lot
of just odd things in my blood, and so I
just continued with physical therapy in the hospital and just
trying to put my finger on what was happening. Finally,

(48:04):
after months, they said, well, we can't figure out what
is happening.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
What's going on with you?

Speaker 5 (48:12):
So they thought that it could be something called conversion syndrome,
where it's kind of a mental issue where your brain
converts like problematic thinking into physical symptoms. And I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
So.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
How do we cure this? Is there a cure for this?

Speaker 5 (48:39):
And they said, no, this is just the way it is,
and you have to like have therapy and do all
these different things. And that's when I kind of said
to myself, I need to take the reins back.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
I don't tell everybody.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
I don't think people should not listened to their doctors,
but sometimes you just really have to trust your gut.
And I just didn't feel like things were happening correctly.
So I broke myself out of the hospital in a
wheelchair and put myself in a taxi and I went
home and I started at home physical therapy, eating right,

(49:26):
getting my mental health back, and slowly but surely I've
come back to life.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Is this before Jesse. Yes, okay, so who did what
was your support system?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
At the time, I had no support systems.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
You were solo.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
And I came home from the hospital. My ex left,
so I came home to an empty home.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (49:49):
So that wasn't easy mentally, but I'm obviously a pretty
strong girl, and I I just knew that I had
had two choices to live or to die, and I
wanted to live. So I put my mind to it.
And during that journey back to good mental health, I

(50:17):
met Jesse and we just became friends. And I mean,
don't get me wrong, I was like, I want to
bag this chick, right, I just love everything that.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Where did you guys meet?

Speaker 5 (50:34):
Well, she's pretty famous on TikTok, so at the time
I was alone and I was watching a lot of
TikTok and I was just like, I really like her
viewpoint on things like she does she pulls no punches, and.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I'm kind of like that.

Speaker 5 (50:50):
I just say it like it is, and I'm like, wow,
we would be a good team. So I just started
like leaving comments, you know, like hey, and sooner or
later she noticed and was like, who's because my moniker
is Jenna Can't Lose on social media and she was like,

(51:11):
who's this Jenna can't Lose and she went to my
site and was like, that's Jenna Jameson.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
So yeah, So that's how it all started.

Speaker 5 (51:23):
And at the time, I was like headstrong into holistic
treatments because I had kind of sworn off hospitals and doctors.
And my best friend here in Las Vegas owns a
wellness company and he was like, you know what, let's
let's try the holistic approach and see if your body responds.

(51:46):
And I started doing hyperbaric treatments and any D treatments,
which is like an infusion of vitamins and everything.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
It pushes talks out and that's goodnxiety.

Speaker 5 (52:01):
Yeah, it's amazing. And I started seeing myself come back
to life because they were doing these brain scans. And
my first brain scan, my brain was like.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
Black, and I'm like, am I going to do a
brain scan?

Speaker 5 (52:21):
Am I truly dead inside? So after every treatment, you
could see my brain sparking and coming back to life
like reds and greens and blues, and I think being
able to see the process happening, yeah, it gave me.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Yeah, and it makes it real, right, it's like you
see it and you're like, oh, it makes it much more,
much more real. I'm so glad we should start wrapping
this up. But I'm so glad that you were able
to get your especially just your mental health, you know,
in a better place, because it's.

Speaker 5 (53:03):
So important and to people out there that that kind
of push their needs aside and ignore it, it manifests.
It's so important to take care of your brain and
feel comfortable because you'll end up sick.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
So and are you back, I mean, are you fully healthy?

Speaker 1 (53:25):
You know I am.

Speaker 5 (53:26):
I'm on my feet, I'm walking unaided, which I never
thought it was going to happen again. You know, I
was with a walker for a long time and now yeah,
it's so funny. Well not funny, but it's for a
long time I had such numb spots and now I

(53:47):
can feel everything.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
I remember things.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
And that's part of the mental health issue, is that
I'm the kind of person that if I am struggling,
I black out on major.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Instances in my life.

Speaker 5 (54:04):
So everything has come into full color for me again
and I feel like I have it in me and
it's just exciting to be back.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, And what's the plan what's the future.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Well, I have, Yeah, that's I mean, I have. But
what for me? I really want to ask you, like,
you know, what is one saying like in your life
your career And it's again all all of that like
preconceived notion of how people see you and what they
want from you and the kinds of questions that you get,
including the questions we're asking you. But what is the

(54:41):
one thing you wish people would ask you?

Speaker 5 (54:44):
Like?

Speaker 3 (54:45):
Is there anything that you wish you would get more.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Of or that someone would know about you that they don't.

Speaker 5 (54:52):
Well, you know, I've always been such an open book.
I think that's a good thing and a bad thing.
But I for me, it really is the connection, the
female connection that I'm able to kind of make a
difference to other women that are going through so many things.

(55:13):
I like for them to be able to look at
me as you know, a cautionary tale like this is
what could happen, and this is what could happen. So
I am an open book and I just want to
show everybody out there that no matter how hard it gets,
there's always a way back.

Speaker 7 (55:34):
Hey up, Well I've always loved you, but now I
think I'm in love with you.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Don't tell. Don't tell, Jesse, and I won't tell you.
Don't tell. My wife she's in love with you too.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
Well.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
I adore both of you. Thank you so much for
having me.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
This is the kind of thing that that fills me up,
like to know that there are people that care and
I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Well, you're you're such a force and I was so
excited to talk to you, you know, because of just
what you've been through, what you've accomplished. You know, people
might look at the industry that you were in and think, oh,
it's just that, but you were a true pioneer. You know,
you were a business woman and you were able again,
like I said, to know your worth and capitalize on

(56:32):
that in an industry that is just sort of dominated
by men. It's very it's very cool. It's very cool youth.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
Oh Ja Jameson.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
She isn't the greatest.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
I really that was so.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
What a woman? What a woman?

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Well? No, but it's it is, you know, I really
I just think, you know, let's let's just use this.
I mean male, it's just so male.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
No it's not. Yes, but she's so smart and I know, but.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
But what I want to say is I don't want
What I want to say is is like I love
interviewing her because I think people there's so many people
out in the world that just don't even under like
give it a chance, because they just look so down

(57:31):
on the industry, on the sex industry and adult filmmaking,
and but like when I think the most important thing
is to just get to the heart of who somebody is.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Well, you said it, really well, you said, look, obviously,
especially nowadays where pornography the content, there's so much of
it and everyone's looking for new, new, new, that these
girls are definitely exploited. There's absolutely no doubt about it,
you know. I mean it's sad, and it was a
different time back then. Yeah, I think you had much
more of a choice, although I'm sure there was some
dark shit going on a lot as well, a lot,

(58:04):
you know, But you said that. But at the same time,
Jenna sort of knew, you know, what she was doing.
She seemed to be fully in control, you know.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Yeah, this is my choice, right, and as control as
she could be. I mean, clearly she even said, like
you know, the cautionary tale, but then look and then
look what can happen? Like I think that, you know,
I think there's there's owning your choices, but also just
just really getting to understand like what someone went through

(58:32):
in order to end up in that position. You know
that you didn't have to come from the most fucked
up family to be an adult film star. That she
get a cop as a dad, and she was in
you know, a smart student and she just was like,
I'm going to dance like you know. So it didn't
come from a place.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Of her book. You should honestly read it.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
It's kind of really interesting, I really and she's so
kind and sweet, and I want to make a movie Jenna.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I mean, I think it's time her whole upbringing. Yeah,
she started dancing the thing. Her story is fucking incredible.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Yeah, all of the So there's a lot of adult
film star stories who are incredible. I mean, Tracy Lord's
story is unbelievable and also another iconic adult film star,
but a very like more tragic story. And but but.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
I I don't think you get bigger than Jennet Jamison. Now,
you just don't, like we just interviewed, you know, like
the Marlon Brando of porn, or like the Meryl Street
of porn, or what not Ron Jeremy though he's in jail. Oh,
actually they took it out of jail because he's got
complete he was found not fit to stand trial because

(59:48):
he was going to go to that mean he was like,
you know, breaking bathrooms all fucking crazy. She's a picture
of that guy looks, but he's got dementia. He's got
all time, he's got everything, and now he's just gonna
dieing some of the home He's Yeah, whatever, I had
a huge schlang, big beef steak.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
What have I gotten myself into this? Listen, I I
the Randy West because I feel like I'm just I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
I knew it all. I knew what she was going
to say, even want to even I was going to say,
so your first was Randy West, up and comers. I
didn't want to say it, but I knew it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Such Scott, listen, I love you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I'm reveling in it as we should on these revel but.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
I will say all you were really sweet and you
really did like I you know, it was really it
was really amazing to get to know how how strong
she was in the industry and like how I mean
talk about that was fun talk about a challenging thing
to be able to do, and that she's she's just tough,

(01:00:58):
tough as nails, and okay, that was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Beat that next week wringing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
I don't know, probably someone who's like, you know, meditate.
It's like Mikailoff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Next week.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
That's not a bad idea to do, Mika. It should
be one of your I would love to do that.
I would love to do him as.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
A That's a great idea.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
All right, I love you.
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