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October 4, 2023 51 mins

The Flores twins arrive in the US after turning themselves in to authorities and end up in the Special Housing Unit - the SHU. They are faced with a choice: continue cooperating against all of their customers in America or spend the rest of their lives in prison. 

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's fifty cent and I'm Charlie Webster, host of
Surviving l Chapo, the Twins who brought down a drug lord.
Make sure you listen to the catch up so you're
up to date with what happened in season one.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
If you haven't listened to season one with you been,
go back and listen.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
The story is chronological and follows on from season two.
I can't wait to take you on the second part
of this ride. We're going to jump straight in where
we left off.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
And when I saw the cards and like all the
agents in marshals.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
Just like staring at us.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I think it was the first time I ever felt like,
holy shit, I'm.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Not just a drug dealer right.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
My whole time, even though like you might hear me
say it now, like oh, that was the biggest drug deer.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
I had no idea that I was. To me, I
was just telling.

Speaker 5 (00:56):
Drugs when you look at it from on the outskirts,
because just in perspective, you can't even fathom what that's.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
That's like I was just doing what they did. Why
are they here?

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Like you know what I mean, Like it's just us
like but it was like reality. It was hard to
like take all that in it and not having a
chance to deal with your emotional it was really difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
This is Surviving our chapter It's Twins who Brought Down
a Trouble Old season two.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
It's fifteen, Charlie with you again.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
Welcome back to Surviving ol chop or The Twins who
brought Down the Drug Law Season two. After a twenty
year long career in the drug trade, the Flores twins
Peter and Jay decided it was time to turn their
lives around.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
But it wasn't going to come easy.

Speaker 5 (02:14):
This is real. They were deep into the cartel. Old
Chopol was like family today. They were caught between the
cartel on one side and the actual family or another.
Getting out of the life meant that huge betrayal to
everything they'd ever known and turning against the man who
was the only reason they were both still alive in

(02:35):
the first place. It was Chopo that stopped peace execution
and who kept the entire family safe.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
It took eight months of secret recordings working with the
US government to bring Chapeo down by recording him on
a wire tap. Pete and Jay turned over the recording
to the government and handed themselves in ready to take
the next step in turning their life around.

Speaker 5 (03:02):
We left you in season one with Pete and j
shackle and landing in the US to a load the
police and federal agents.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
While the brothers were on their way out of Mexico
on a US government private jet, their wives and the
rest of the family had to make their own way
out of the country. Viv, Val, Pete and J's brother Armando,
the twins, mother and father, and all the children were
left to drive eight hours through enemy territory, across the
US border and into relative safety. Just a reminder that

(03:37):
we're not going to identify which brother is speaking each time,
but I'm sure by now you've got to know them.

Speaker 6 (03:44):
Jay is a little lighter and happy go lucky.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Heat tends to be serious and more of a realist.
Jay is married to Val and at this point they
have two boys, one just a newborn baby. Heat is
married to Viv. They also have a newborn baby, a girl.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
It was a big deal when we came back, like
they had all kinds of marshals and swat team.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
To bombard as questions.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
There's a couple of people talking and a lot of faces,
and I seen his man. He's kind of tall. He
has a briefcase and I automatically ain't know, like, oh,
that's the use of attorney. And we went into the
They have a business lobby, so they have a big
conference room, and we went in there and a few

(04:48):
of the agents, including the agent, the DA agent Marsh
I think he was from our original cas is there
and we get on the call with our attorney and
the US Attorney's office from Chicago, and basically they're like, Okay, guys,

(05:08):
you know your family's across the borders or and now
you guys are here and use guys been cooperating, you know,
for Mexico, but now it's time for you guys to
finish doing your job. And I'm really, huh, you don't
have to finish during your job, and that means it
we need you incorporating against all your customers based in

(05:30):
the United States. I was like, oh, absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
Hell no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that.
Everyone looked like what.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
And I remember my turning with like, hold on, hold on,
I need to speak to my clients. I need to
fink my clients in private, Like nah, that's the post
you like, because I felt like we just cooperated for nothing,
like we have nothing, like where's our end?

Speaker 4 (06:08):
Just reis my life?

Speaker 3 (06:09):
I'm here by the bras of God, like, but now
where's like you're asking me corporated with Where's like? What
was my benefit?

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Like?

Speaker 3 (06:15):
What am I getting? You're asking me to now turn
on my customers.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
As far as the twins were concerned, the deal was
to get El Chapo on tape, serve a few years
in prison, and be free to start a completely new life.
All their conversations with the government so far have been
purely focused on El Chapo, but the government had other ideas.
J and P would now have to turn in everybody

(06:41):
they've ever dealt with, workers, customers, and even their friends
if they were ever going to have any chance at freedom.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
The prosecutor gets on the phone and the other prosecutors
just looking at something basically says, guys, to work.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
It's gonna be all or nothing. You don't get to
the side.

Speaker 7 (07:07):
How did that make you feel?

Speaker 4 (07:09):
I felt like that hurt, that felt trapped.

Speaker 8 (07:16):
Like I felt stupid for sure, And at that moment,
that's how I felt like what I was angry?

Speaker 9 (07:28):
I just.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean, I just said it was that moment it
was those like those initial moments where I felt like
I was angry to use a turn off. I felt
like it was a trap to me and I felt
like I hadn't got nothing in return and.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
To them, and they're like, oh, you're a diructed what
you respect. You're getting a chance.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
And to me, I'm like, I'm risking my life every
day forgiving you what you asked me for.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
You didn't ask for that.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
You said that you wanted this, We offered, We put
everything on the table, and that's what you wanted. And
that's not just trait works. So basically he said, listen,
it's all or nothing. If you guys want to decided,
you would change your mind and you want to spend
the rest of your life in prison for all your

(08:18):
customers are gonna end up cooperating against you anyway, like
they are. Now that's up to you, you guys think
about it. And when he said that, was like, kind
I had a point there, you know.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Like.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
I do remember asking could we do anything about this?
And he's like, you don't get to pick and choose.
Chase doesn't work that way. Now you go do the
right thing. Remember what got your hair?

Speaker 4 (08:50):
You don't put no one in front of your family,
and he was right.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
I didn't want to be the responsible person for that,
like I guess, you know, like I didn't wanna be
responsible for everyone's life changing.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
I just wanna be responsible for my life changing, right like.
And I think that it's just it was a lot,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (09:18):
That night they wanted to do uh what you call
control deliveries, so you'd call, you know, a call a
customer and tell ma'mas and go kill 'em drugs and
they're arrest 'em. But there was too much to do
in them a few hours, like to be sitting there

(09:43):
and it was getting lad to finding they they we
made a couple of calls and that was her fault
for them to be sitting in front of you, like here,
make the call, call this person and they're sitting in
front of you. And we had to lie, and we
had to call customers that we had for many years
and be like and basically settlement.

Speaker 7 (10:09):
So it could be arrested.

Speaker 9 (10:11):
M H.

Speaker 7 (10:12):
How did that feel?

Speaker 4 (10:15):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's gonna be one of those define moments a team
in my life where you know, there was really high
highs and really low loads we made up eat a
few of those calls, and it was getting late in
the night and they decided that we were.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
Gonna end there. The team remember Belt, like, I just
can't believe just what we did.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
The first off was Kenosha County Jail in Wisconsin and
a change in identity for protection, they could no longer
use or be referred to by their real names.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
It took us to a county jail, to Kenosha County Jail,
and that's when reality was and start standing in a
little bit. Took us and uh, they changed their name,
they changed their name, and they gave us the last

(11:37):
name for Maris. My name was gonna be Mark Ramers
and Peter was Quant Rumors. And in Kenosha there's a
federally like a federal holdover, and uh, this is a
county jail. They made us change and you know the
thirty years, they give you orange socks with wholes in

(11:59):
them and slippers, shower shows, and they put us in
a in this one unit, it's like down twenty three
hours a day. And uh, I remember walking seeing the
phone like, am I gonna be able to use phone? Yeah,
when it's your turn. So basically that one person out

(12:20):
an hour a day just in that little unit.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
So they go down the l down the line.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
So I remember just observing, like I'm asking questions.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
People were like, oh, where are you from? You know,
asking those questions.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
I'm gonna guess that some of them are cooperator as well,
cause they're they're there, and it looks like they've been
there for a long time too, cause they're settled in in.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
This ugly place.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
The doors steel wire crisscross kind of a through their
seat through so and like you get privacy. They can
see right through your and it's just old. Everything's old.

Speaker 7 (12:59):
And yes, the door on the shut it's so wired.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
It's like a you know, it has a like almost
like a gate on it stealav.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
And they it's separated. So they put my brother in one.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
It's one bad one bunk and they put my brother
in one. They put me in the other. I remember
me and brother's like like Jay, like don't go to sleep.
So we uh the doors like here, and I basically
just sat down on the door and.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
He sat down in the door. So you lean against
it against the door and we're just talking. We don't
have to talk a lot because you know, it's.

Speaker 7 (13:44):
Open, you're right next to each of them, and just.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
I remember it.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Just I was like, what did we do? And she's like,
you know, wondering about our family. That's gonna be like
the beginning of the stress of wondering.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
Are they okay? I have the kids, okay, I wonder
what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
I want you know, I think anybody in prison always
thinks about those things at this very moment, you know.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
And we didn't sleep. They bring breakfast like a fight
during in the morning. It was terrible. It was like
rits and who knows what we we didn't need.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
I don't think me and my brother didn't eat, probably
for the next five days, and.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
We would drink like water something or juice.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
And I probably lost those first two weeks, probably lost
thirty pounds.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
After a brief stay in Kenosha, Pete and Jay, now
under a different alias, were moved to the Metropolitan Correctional
Center in Chicago, sixty two miles away.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
The team came first, and you know, they took us
to Chicago. It was a caravan, like a big caravan
of Marshalls. That's gonna be the normal from that point.
And they take me to together what you just.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
It's me and my brother.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, together, we're like a a special hold where we
have a three men hold. So it said one lieutenant
and two officers every time we get moved, so that
mean that there's me and my brother. So at first
it was hard because they needed two lieutenants, you know,
four officers, and we're talking on a place that doesn't

(15:30):
have that many guards. So it didn't take long before
we couldn't start being o paining their asses. They take
us to use the training's office, put us in a
conference room, and that's why. Actually first for the first time,
I meet Thomas Shaksha, I meet Michael Ferar, who are
gonna be the lead. It was a training in the case.

(15:53):
I meet the agents that we've been speaking to. That's
Eric Doronte, who was the agent in charge of the case.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
We meet Tim Janelli.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
The twins were now face to face with the government
team behind the l Chapo case, the people who would
ultimately decide the twins' future. Sam Janelle was the first
agent Pete and Jay ever spoke to. If you remember,
it was back in that sixteen person shower that they
had in Mexico. Janelle worked alongside Eric Durante, the DA's

(16:27):
special agent assigned to the case, who had also been
working on it from the beginning. With them were the
assistant US attorneys, Michael Ferrara and Thomas Shakeshaft.

Speaker 6 (16:38):
Shake Shaft was the lead prosecutor.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
He first met Pete in that secret hotel room meeting
back in Mexico.

Speaker 6 (16:44):
That started everything.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
They're my attorneys there, they need us, probably talked for
twenty minutes and then they're like, we need you to
continue on with this corporation.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
We started working.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
And going into a grand jury to in day chapel that.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Day, and me and my brother got it.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
That's what they want from us, Like, that was our
bargaining to us, and that's.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
The first thing that they want. Can they basically.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
You know when they took our phones from us, what happened,
whether people were calling their phone and the ages are
there sending back messages pretending to be yeah, like basically
like oh listen, so and so been calling.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
He said he needs twenty five keys.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Cooperating isn't what you might expect. It doesn't stop happening
just because you go to prison. At this point, the
twins had no idea that this would carry on for years,
and so the US government could put El Chapo behind bars.

Speaker 6 (18:00):
For the first eight months, it.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Was all day, every single day, calling and setting up
their customers and friends.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
I do feel responsible for like making decisions for a
lot of people, like not just my family, I made
a decision for a lot of people that went to jail.

Speaker 7 (18:21):
How many people went to jail because of what you did,
Like how many roughly.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
I want to sit in totally over one hundred people
for sure.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
When they were finished for the day, they would head
back in a big convoy to mcc Chicago. MCC Chicago
is not what you might think a normal prison looks like.
It's a skyscraper in the middle of the city. It's
one big triangle designed that way to be easier to
keep an eye on everyone. The roof of the giant

(18:54):
triangle is used as the recreation yard. While you're shooting hoops,
you can kind of look out on the amazing views
of downtown Chicago. It's used as a holding prison for
those that have not yet been sentenced. Because of the
danger of what the twins were doing. They couldn't simply
be held with.

Speaker 6 (19:12):
All the other prisoners.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
They were a part of the WITSEC program, basically in
prison witness protection, which meant they had to be kept
in the SHU special housing unit known as the Shoe.

Speaker 6 (19:27):
The shoe is a bit like solitary confinement.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Because they were helping the government, Pete and j were
given a few special privileges. They were allowed to be
together in the shoe.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Walking to the shore, I was like, oh, of shit,
like this is this is prison?

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Like what.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
There's like a little gay indigal bunch of self nor
where it's like just hardway inter is a bunch of cells,
these weird it's like a triangle and they have two
sides and they take us to a back cell. It's
two bucks and like it's ugly dirty, you know, paint chripping.

(20:14):
It's so fucking cold.

Speaker 8 (20:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
It was the first time. I think I really like
took it in, like all the other things. So much
going on. I remember they close chuckhold and we remember
stands the orange.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
We just like look at each other. They're in shit
in there, like yo, what the fuck do we do now?

Speaker 3 (20:37):
We're getting anxious, like no communication. We haven't talked to
our family. I think our Lord told they're okay. They've
been calling or something like that, but that wasn't good
enough for us, Like, okay, what it was this I
wanna tell you, like this torture in us, like we
f say, if we draws of bones or withdraws of

(21:00):
all are what we were used to for others. You're
just now we're sitting in a fucking town. They were
nothing in there.

Speaker 6 (21:07):
The life of a drug dealer is twenty four to seven.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
And if you remember, Pete and j had fifty phones
each constantly ringing. They were heavily involved in the day
to day running of the business and made sure they
never missed a phone call.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
You know, it's scary to hear phones ringing when they're
not ringing, could you hear? Yeah, I think, And you
know how messed up your brain.

Speaker 6 (21:35):
Getting in the quiet of a prison cell.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Pete was still hearing phones ringing inside his head.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
The first night was like terrible, and it was a
while before we even saw a guard, I think, and
they'll come just looking and we're just like sitting there
like like this fucking place is nasty. It was hard
that first nights, talking about it is freezing. We have

(22:31):
no blanket, we have nothing, you know, we have like
a T shirt on, like a small T shirt and
just a jump shore and we're freezing. I'm talking about
like shaky. It has to be like forty degrees and
we're shaky. Night there's icicles on the wall. They shut

(22:52):
the lights off at ten o'clock and I remember you
could see the roaches come out, just shining.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Roaches or where they came early for us.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
The next day turned six, there's the marshals come for us,
and they.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Put it like you know, we go through the process.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
It will be like quite a few marshals and they'll
they'll pick us up in like a bult of cud,
take us down the back to the federal building.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
And that was kind of became a routine.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
So you basically we're in the shoe and then they
transported you down the road to the federal building to.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
The federal building where we'd go and they start off
like at a conference room or you know, an office
and then they take you back to.

Speaker 10 (23:43):
Yeah, it will bring the laptop for us to like
review whatever document, whatever the case is, and you have
the battup.

Speaker 11 (23:58):
Then they end up starting to stop something. I was
like doing something else to use to try allegiance I
have a look. I've seen that they had windows open
in the computer and I hit the window.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
You don't want me to say that story? What's woman?

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Don't forget Pete and j haven't seen each other much
since they were in prison together, so there's occasionally some
brotherly tension in the room. Some of this stuff is
being spoken about between them for the very first time.
It's Jay's wife file that you can hear in the background.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
I mean, you could story what I was saying. You
went to the funding agents fucking for pure and hit window. Legion.

Speaker 12 (24:37):
You don't want to go be like, oh, you're manipulating
the age you said in this fucking interview.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
Don't say that, but.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Say a word.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
Computer I did.

Speaker 12 (24:47):
It's not for you to go through that's the crime.
Come on, man, Yeah, it's part of the story. Is
that seeing that parts not important? Okay, I'm just saying that.
You don't want to open a cain of words over it.

Speaker 11 (24:58):
So yeah, you really were saying here talking about tons
of drugs and that's gonna be all that's the issue.

Speaker 10 (25:05):
Oh yeah, hold on, let's go viborated that on.

Speaker 7 (25:09):
Tell us what you saw.

Speaker 13 (25:11):
You can open up issue part issue just one day
you're going to a federal government ages for Windows computerity
that you're staking around it.

Speaker 12 (25:19):
You could have changed information about something not but before
it doesn't sit well, like I don't know you understand,
I just chilling, just said, did.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
You basically see all the all the it's just information
where it would tasty.

Speaker 7 (25:34):
It sounds like when you've been no it was your.

Speaker 13 (25:38):
Personal Please, they no right to a personal feeling, saying
now you they had personal themes that they will be
writing messages to each other email emails and saying he's
fucking insulting.

Speaker 11 (25:49):
Yeah, if he's saying the agent and they're prosecute.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
The brothers didn't want to go into any more detail
on the record, so I stopped the tape and we
took a short break. We picked up the story with
the twins back in the conference room cooperating with the
agents in Chicago.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
It was the second day when when we had like
a break.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
I remember the use attorney he said, so, I know, guys,
like you know, up to this point, you know, you
guys seemed like you guys are all right guys, and
you know, over the time we've been talking a lot
and being familiar with each other like you could.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Feel it, but not everyone in this office feels that way.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
And I was like, huh, you're gonna, you know, we're
gonna introduce you to some agents that I don't really like.
You guys, so you know, just be patient and just
like you know, they might be a little bit hard.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
And I remember that's when I first started.

Speaker 14 (26:51):
Just like.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
Hard what.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Basically giving me a warning like they might not be nice.
I'm get a ship, it's already bothered me.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
Here comes six.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Seven ages walking in there, and I could see that
they're they don't seem cool, they don't seem nice, I
could see. And I guess they were mad at the
case because they were people that were, you know, the
time when I was cooperating, they're you know, they're doing investigation.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
They felt like it should have been their case.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
And you know, different ages got the case.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
I understand.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
I said, you guys have been like after us for
a long time, right, kind of made a joke out
of there, and now we're here, right, so I know
you guys have like you guys could be upset, but
you guys, you know, for a.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Long time, you know, we were winning, but now you
got us.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
You won we're here, We're here, We're gonna help you
in you know, however we could help you. We're going
to help you and just leave any personal shites to
the side or whatever. They kind of just nodded their
head in and then that's when I think we spoke
up by said I'm going to help you guys.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
And now that we are just well, am I going
to ask for one deep?

Speaker 9 (28:21):
Like?

Speaker 4 (28:21):
What's that? I said? Saoul Rodriguez?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yes, that Saul, remember the one that kidnapped Pete in Chicago,
Pete's first kidnapping. Saoul Rodriguez pretended to be a cop
and took Pete into a basement where the floor was
covered with plastic and there was that random parrot.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
When they just smiled, So roduis kidnapped? You kidnapped my brother.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
At the time, the brothers didn't retaliate against Seoul for
kidnapping Pete, but they were finally able to get their revenge.
Saul was one person they were more than happy to
turn into the government.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
And he has a file on his hand and he
just started freaking up pictures and my brother was able
to identify everyone in the pictures, and that kind of
just like I think can change their views a little bit.
But it's gonna be like, this is gonna be a routine,

(29:31):
you know, it's gonna go on for the next seven months.

Speaker 7 (29:36):
So for seven months you did that. What was it like?

Speaker 4 (29:42):
It wasn't easy.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
We had up and downs, you know, you know, and
every day it was like it was just a reminder
of like we're doing this, Like why are we doing this?
How did we get here? And there was a lot
of questions about our future every day probably and everything
going on with our families. Don't forget they're picked up

(30:05):
and you had to start all over and all these
things going on.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
The tearful goodbye back in Mexico was the last time
Pete and j had seen their families. All they knew
was that they'd crossed the border into the US safely.
While Pete and j were sat in a conference room
in Chicago, Val and Pete's wife viv were stranded at
the border with the rest of the family.

Speaker 6 (30:37):
They didn't know where their husbands were being held.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
The responsibility of what to do next and where to
go fell on VAL's shoulders.

Speaker 9 (30:47):
We stood there hours at the border. Hours.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
It was already morning time.

Speaker 7 (30:55):
It's like, where are we going?

Speaker 9 (30:58):
Were going to Chicago, and I'm like, we're just gonna
keep going. So she just looked like and it was
just like emotionally drained. She looked exhausted, she looked tired.
And I was like, we're just we're not gonna stop
work and keep going. And then we kept driving, and

(31:26):
I remember we hit I think it was San Antonio
and San Antonio in Texas. Yeah, we hit San Antonio.
Now our phones don't work because all of our phones

(31:47):
are from Mexico and there's no phone service. And I
remember we went to a hotel. We check in, and
I remember I said my nephews to go with the phones.

(32:09):
They come back. I start calling the attorneys. I start calling,
like we're here, We're in the US.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
Where's J M P.

Speaker 9 (32:23):
They're like, we don't know. I'm like, where are they
take Where are they taking it? I'm assuming they're gonna
come either to Milwaukee or to Chicago. And I'm like,
so what do I do if I go to Chicago?

(32:49):
And he's like, I don't think it's a good idea
that you guys come. And I'm like, if that's where
they're taking a husband, that's where we're going. He's like,
I don't think you guys should be nowhere near Chicago.
But I'm like, I'm sorry, but that's exactly where we're going.

Speaker 7 (33:11):
That's why you knew as well, right.

Speaker 9 (33:13):
Yeah, it's I mean, we didn't have a plan. We
didn't know what where to go, or we didn't even
think about, like what do we do when we need
back to go? We weren't ready to go, so I
got in the cars and we'd throw straight there.

Speaker 7 (33:30):
We don't stop.

Speaker 15 (33:40):
When we were in Chicago, we went straight to a
hotel called the Attorney, and then a few agents from
Witness Protection came out to speak to me and Fez
and basically told us that they wanted our family to
go into the program and that we wouldn't be able

(34:03):
to speak to our husbands until their release.

Speaker 9 (34:08):
Whenever that was released from prison.

Speaker 7 (34:11):
Yeah, so we could have been talking at that point.
You've got no idea exactly.

Speaker 6 (34:19):
When the twins turned themselves into the US authorities.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
No one had any idea how long they would ultimately
spend in prison. It would end up being years before
they'd be sentenced, and despite their cooperation, the possibility of
spending decades behind bars was still on the table.

Speaker 6 (34:37):
Entering the witness protection program.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
That was offered to them by the government meant the
family would be split up. Val and Viv wouldn't be
able to speak to or visit their husbands until the
day they were released from prison.

Speaker 15 (34:52):
They even said that me and Viv couldn't even be together,
our kids couldn't be together.

Speaker 9 (34:57):
She had got at one part of the country. I
had got another part.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Of the country, no communication, no.

Speaker 15 (35:01):
Communication with us, with our families, with their husbands, with anyone,
with no one, no one, our parents, no one.

Speaker 9 (35:11):
I said, I'm gonna speak for me and Viv, and
I said, we'd just absolutely not. We will not be
going into the program. She put fear in us.

Speaker 15 (35:21):
I know that she told us that they were there
to help us, and that there's no way we could be,
you know, on our own, especially with their husbands cooperating
with their cooperation, and we weren't safe in Chicago.

Speaker 9 (35:37):
That if we weren't.

Speaker 15 (35:39):
Gonna go into the program, that we should leave the state.
You shouldn't even be in Illinois. And we're like, where
do we go. She's like, the only way we can
help you is if you enter a witness protection if not,
we can't assist you in any way. And we're like, okay,

(36:00):
I just kind of went started going by the attorneys
what they were telling me to do, and the attorneys
they hired twenty four hour security for our men. Two
SUV's blacked out and they start in front of the

(36:22):
house twenty four to seven.

Speaker 7 (36:26):
In Chicago. Yeah, to that point, you got a house.

Speaker 15 (36:30):
Yeah, we went there, and then that they slept there.
They were there twenty four to seven.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
The decision not to enter the government's witness protection program
so they could stay together meant.

Speaker 6 (36:46):
The family were completely on their own.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Val Viv and the kids moved into one big house
in Chicago where they could have the protection of around
the clock private security team.

Speaker 6 (36:58):
Across town.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
J and P were also under around the clock protection,
but they weren't in a big house. They were in
a tiny cell in the shoe, no bigger than a cupboard,
under twenty four hour lockdown.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
For the first few months, it was straight locked. I
couldn't even get a shower. I don't think we took
a shower for three weeks. They just they didn't have
the manpower. We didn't take a shower for three weeks.
It got to a point something where like we would
be so embarrassed where we stunk. So that was our

(37:31):
first real los sting of the shoe, just wondering where
I was living. I was she okay with my rest
of my family. I think we didn't have not one word.
We didn't hear nothing from them, Like I couldn't even
tell her where I was at. I can't tell you
how miserable that was. Oh, I had my first major

(37:56):
panic attacke. I was like para life I couldn't bring
and I felt like I wanted to cry and scream
and weird at the same time where I couldn't Just
you know, remember the first day night in prison and
tell my brother, please on fall asleep, man, talk to me,
like take please, don't fall asleep, bro, like stay up,
talk to me because I'm not like I'm going crazy.

Speaker 7 (38:21):
Did you get quite a lot with panic attacks in prison?

Speaker 4 (38:25):
I had my share, but nothing like those, Nothing like those.
I could tell you.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
Yeah, the first one the first time, and for.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Some reason, it was weird because it made me think
that your body, the beautiful thing about your mind and body,
that a panic attack usually followed some peace. I don't
know it felt like afterwards, you know, I cried, got
back to know and then I kind of felt like okay,

(38:59):
and it felt like like almost like a release of
emotions and that, and there was like a soothing little
face set like a self soothing for a little while.
And all these things are like, well, how are you
supposed to feel.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
When you're going through that?

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Like, I don't care if you If I am guilty
of those crimes, that doesn't mean I don't feel these things.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
They're normal, real human emotions.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
If someone doesn't feel sad to be going through something
like that, there's something wrong with them. If you don't,
you know, if it doesn't hurt you to be apart
from your family, see your babies crying for you, see
your mother cry for you, do something wrong with you.
You know, you're not scared to spend the rest of

(39:49):
your life in prison. You haven't done any real time
in prison. If you're in prison for two years or
a year three months, that's nothing compared to the reality
of fighting for your life. It literally felt like I
had a life sentence. I was trying to fight off,

(40:10):
you know, which I was.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
I couldn't see my family.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
I would get like a phone call here and there,
and my brother and I were like pissed off, like, look,
man nowhere proffering or debriefing whatever. But I wanted to say,
right as every other person, I want to be able to.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
See my family.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
And it was like a humongous headache for them because
of the security issues.

Speaker 9 (40:56):
Finally we're able to see our husband after three weeks.

Speaker 15 (41:00):
We had to go like under a like an underground
tunnel into the US Attorneys into the federal building, and
then they took us up the back elevators to the
offices and that's where we saw Jay and Peter for
the first time.

Speaker 9 (41:17):
We had the kids with us.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Do you remember that day we were in that office. Yeah.
I didn't expect to see them.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
I remember the door open, like the office door opened,
and I was able to plans down the.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
Hallway and I seen her like standing right there.

Speaker 9 (41:35):
Yeah, and we walked in and I remember my son
just ran Patty. He's just like honey, crying.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Like everything.

Speaker 9 (41:48):
We were all crying again.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
Of course.

Speaker 9 (41:52):
It was just so emotional and just looking at j
and p and they were like just small, they were skinny,
they were.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
I'm sorry you got to smell. I'm sorry.

Speaker 9 (42:04):
Smile. I took a shower for three weeks, like it's okay,
you don't smile, you keep.

Speaker 7 (42:09):
Your head up.

Speaker 9 (42:10):
I kept lifting his chin up like you're look handsome.
I'm like, don't do that, keep your head up. And
he's like, okay, mess you. We love. It's just west
like so many things like we're fine, we're safe, we're okay,
we're okay.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
It was like I wanted to ask questions, but it
was more like we didn't.

Speaker 9 (42:35):
In that moment, we didn't talk about what he went through.
We didn't talk about what I went through he went through.
It was just about our kids, you know, if we're
okay and we were safe, and that was it.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
It was I was like vocals, like the biggest he
was okay if.

Speaker 9 (42:57):
If he was eating, He's like, now that we're here
in the offices, when they bring us, they bring us
food or whatever they're eating, we eat and we're like,
why can't you take a shower? It was just like
it's so weird, like how do you get here? Like
aren't you like across the street because they have like
the MCC, the Metropolitan Correctional Center. He's like they move

(43:18):
us and like these like bulletproof suburbans, and like with
all these marshals and not much change, right, And it
was when Obama.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Was Obama and had just won the election and he
had I guess they had his office was in the
Federal Building, right, they have an office there. And what
happened was that I guess they had the Secret Service.
The Secret Service would sometimes be there and you know,
the marshals, and it would be those like they're protecting us,

(43:55):
and it would be like elevators like hold on, hold on,
Like it.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
Was like always a problem.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
At the same time, Lukovich, the Illinois governor, had just
been indicted, so it was like always on media frenzy
out there and we'd be in these you know, I
guess you know Obama's security detour or us.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
It kind of was like they couldn't tell what was what.

Speaker 15 (44:17):
Right to them, media was obviously saying that J and
P was like that was Obama. They were taking him
and moving him around the city, and it was.

Speaker 9 (44:25):
You two, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (44:31):
So how long were you there for?

Speaker 4 (44:32):
Then?

Speaker 7 (44:33):
Seven months?

Speaker 4 (44:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
If you were in Chicago in late two thousand and
eight and thought you saw Obama's motorcade, chances are it
was probably the Flores twins cooperating meant so much more
than the one phone called Pete recorded on the phone
to l Chapo. The daily motorcade continued every single day
for another seven months. The twins were finally allowed to

(45:03):
see their family, but there was one person who wouldn't
visit them, their father. Pete and Jay were able to
get the government to give him a visa to live
in the United States for his own protection. The government
felt it would be too dangerous for him to live
in Mexico because of what the twins had done, but their.

Speaker 6 (45:21):
Father felt otherwise. He wanted his life in his homeland
of Mexico.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
He headed to the bus station to get on a
bus to cross the Mexican border.

Speaker 6 (45:32):
Val tried to stop him getting on the bus. It
didn't work.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
In the midst of their daily cooperation, the twins received
some awful news. Within days of their father, Margarito Floris Senior,
arriving in Mexico, he was kidnapped and was never seen again.
All that was left was his burnt out car and
a note that said, tell those fuckers to shut.

Speaker 6 (45:59):
Up, or will send you his head.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
The last time Pete and j had seen their father
was back in Mexico when they told him they've been
cooperating with the US government, the very thing he'd always
told them never to do. He called them cowards and
told them they weren't his sons.

Speaker 7 (46:21):
How did you feel when you found out that he'd.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Died there.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
I don't think that, even to this day, that I've
been able to like really like take it on you
put in the back of my mind at turns, because.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
I guess just not.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Facials were continue to face those feelings of guilt.

Speaker 14 (46:54):
You know, when I see my mom, I can see
her loaning as I feel even worse, but like moving forward, like.

Speaker 4 (47:09):
Like all those things he felt like.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
I wish I had, like the story, I feel like
to be able to tunnel like that I did the
right thing, you know.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
But he told me, like.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
His eyes were like, don't trust the government. Don't they're
gonna usual throw you away.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
And he said, and these people are never gonna forget
what you did.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
And I had the idea to think that, you know,
like that you're wrong, you know, and the situation I'm
in today doesn't feel like he was wrong. You know,
he's taking someone outside ranch. They found his vehicle and.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
Yeah, mm hmm.

Speaker 8 (48:07):
That was it. That was a threat. And to me
it was like a threat, you know, but a threat,
asked me, you know, it wasn't It was more of a.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Statement right for him. Mm hmmm.

Speaker 8 (48:34):
I don't think it's ten from what it was. But
I guess we understand. I knew one person it was
a cartle.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Chapel m. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 8 (48:54):
I don't recall it the exact words, but I know
it was something about us talking.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
I was called prayer.

Speaker 7 (49:04):
So you're angry, You're angry that what they did.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
No, I'm not angry. I think I blame myself.

Speaker 8 (49:28):
I blame myself like or I take responsibility for it
as I have, you know, incoing present for my actions.
And I think that was a consequence of my actions.
I think that we like try to like just put
on this face. And I think it was the situation

(49:50):
where in the and I try to remember, I remember
sitting there thinking.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
If this is what happened because of this, then I
wouldn't make this work there like I'm not gonna like
come here and just start, you know, second guessing.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
We're gonna stand for something that's meaningful to hours in
the stuff from Pintro. I Still here, We're still going.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Surviving El Chapo, The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord.
Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and
me Charlie Webster, produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant
producer and research support by Katie Hurtz. Edit and sound
designed by Nico Polella. Theme music and original score by

(50:49):
Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty.

Speaker 6 (50:54):
Cent Jackson and Me Charlie Webster.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a lions It Sound, a
G unit audio production exclusively for IHET Podcasts.

Speaker 8 (51:06):
H
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Hosts And Creators

Curtis ‘50 Cent’ Jackson

Curtis ‘50 Cent’ Jackson

Charlie Webster

Charlie Webster

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