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June 12, 2024 53 mins

In this episode of 'The Book of Joe' Podcast, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci look at the Mets/Phillies series in London.  Tom made the trip and gives his thoughts on how the game was received overseas.  Which parts of the game confused the new audience? Where should baseball be looking to expand its footprint?  Joe discusses his International experiences over the years.  Plus, who is the most reliable pitcher in baseball?

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hello there and welcome back, or welcome for the first time.
You have found the most interesting podcast on the planet.
It's the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci

and of course Joe Madden.

Speaker 2 (00:27):

Speaker 1 (00:27):
This is the international edition of the Book of Joe Podcast.
Considering I just got off a plane from London over
there for the London series between the Mets and the Phillies,
and there's some international baseball experience I know you've experienced.
I want to get into that into a minute, but
I want to get your take Joe first of all,
on Major League Baseball playing these games outside the continental US.

I'm not sure if he caught any of the London series,
but obviously this is a third time they've been over there.
They played games in Mexico City, Japan, Korea. As a
baseball guy, do you sign up with enthusiasm for these trips.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, I really liked the idea. Actually, you know, you're right.
I've been different countries to do clinics, never with the
team necessarily.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
But I like it.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
It could be painted a butt no question, Like when
they broke camp and they had to go all the
way over there, and you're always concerned about the time
travel and how it's going to affect you for a
couple of days afterwards, and that's part of it. And
then the same thing just flip flopping over to England
and back. However, I mean for me culturally, I just
you know something I really would enjoy and love to

meet the different groups, different people, expanding our footprint, regarding
spreading the gospel of the game, all that kind of
stuff I would like.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
I like that. I like that a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Actually, So, as you alluded to, I've clinically done that
years ago. I've always wanted to be part of the
Barcelona Anythings whatever, you could call them the Barcelona Anything,
So I'll go there. I'd be happy to observe those
plane rights. So I think it's kind of cool. I
don't know how much of a success it's being deemed
to be, but I hope it is because I like
the concept.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, we'll get into future stopping off points on the
tours so to speak, in a minute, but yes, it
has been successful for that very reason you talked about
just exposing the game to other people. Listen, you're not
going to get a foothold in England when it comes
to Major League Baseball. There's one dedicated baseball complex there.
You are not supplanting football as they call it, soccer
or cricket.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's just not happening.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
But you can expose people to the game and maybe
virtually they follow online. Now the world is somewhat smaller,
they become fans to some extent, or the expats that
are over there, I love seeing baseball in their own backyard.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
I could just tell you being over there, there was
a lot of excitement there. You know.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
There was a pep rally, so to speak, on a
Friday night on the eve of the games at Trafalgar
Square and there they are under the huge statue of
Admiral Nelson honoring the Great Naval Battle of eighteen oh five.
And there we are Trafalgar Square and the baseball is
being played and Phillies fans are turning out like it's

downtown Philly.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
It was just an awesome to.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Take over London for a day, actually for a weekend
with the games being played. Fifty five thousand people at
London Stadium. Know they can't play in Wembley. Just the
logistics of it. You just can't really get a baseball
field in there, so they use what was the Olympic
Stadium and it's the home soccer pitch for West Ham
for a baseball field.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
And it's pretty amazing how they do it, Joe. They've
got this down.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Pat Murray Cook is like the Czar of Fields from
Major League Baseball because they set up fields everywhere, you know,
from Fort Bragg to London. And what they have to
do is it takes eighteen days.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
The soccer team did not want their pitch being.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Dug up to have infield dirt place down on their field,
so they actually placed some aggregate over the field and
they placed these astro turf tiles on top of it.
Took eighteen days to convert it to a baseball field. Then, Yeah,
it was bouncy. It was kind of like the old
nineteen seventies and eighties turf. But I look great, played great,
and I think baseball is exposing another market to baseball

and I think it's something that the SHO do on
an annual basis.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Again, I cannot agree more. I did clinics in England,
so I know exactly what you're talking about. There were
more club teams. This was in the mid nineties. I
was up in Cranfield University, Milton Keynes. I think it's
an hour kind of north of London. Great time did
it with Dave Duncan and Herm Snyder. The teams were
there from Cambridge and Oxford and their primary goal was

to play a little baseball and then kind of drink
a lot afterwards. That was their concept of a good
afternoon baseball fun guys, right, guys, But that was it.
So I did like nine one hour lessons from Friday
afternoon to Sunday afternoon and I had a blast.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
So you're right.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
There's not a whole lot of baseball exposure there more
of a on the club level. I don't see it.
I don't see it taking a foothold of any kind.
But I do believe there can be interest created. I
do believe we can create a fan base to follow,
especially with the way games are being able to be
televised wherever. I think that matters. I know when I
was with the Angels, there's a young man over there.

I can't remember exactly where, but he was fanatical about
the Angels and that was on his show and he
came to Anaheim and did his show just all about
angel baseball. He's that much into it, So there's I
don't know how many are being totally absorbed into that.
I mean, there's so many other cultural components of that country,
whereas you know, compared to ours, it's just completely different,

right down to gardening. I mean, these folks love their gardens.
So I don't see it grabbing a foothold other than
grabbing some fans. I believe maybe, I know, ten years
from now, find a couple of baseball players of kids, really,
because you have to nurture these kids on a very
young level, pre little league level, to really get them
to be eventually ready to play in the major leagues

with the body movements, throwing the ball, moving around, swinging
a bat, how the game has played, nuance, all that
stuff takes time. That was my take several years ago,
and I don't think it's really advanced that much. So
I think the primary thing is to possibly and hopefully
create more fans. And if the intend is to really
find some players, it's going to take a little bit

more coaching involvement, more dedication from us to them to
really get this thing moving on a youthful level, otherwise
it won't work.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Let me give you, because it's very interesting. Here a
quick history of baseball in England. Yeah, okay, and wonder
how Major League Baseball has wanted to get a foothole,
but at least expose the game to londoners. And I
want you to imagine, Joe, if you were on one
of these tours as a manager with your players and teams.
The first one was one hundred and fifty years ago,

actually eighteen seventy four. You get twenty two players from
the Boston Braves and the Philadelphia as they crossed the
Atlantic to introduce baseball to England. They wound up being
asked to play more cricket than baseball. Like the fans
were like it, yeah, let's play cricket. So the baseball
players wound up playing against cricket teams in cricket, and

they allowed the Americans to stack their roster with fourteen
players against eleven for the Hometowners. They played fourteen dates
in England, seven of them in London. And I don't know,
would you be okay with your players playing cricket? And
maybe that's the next thing you can do over there.
You'd play at baseball games, and you also played the
local game as an exhibition.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I'd like to see Kyle Schwebber play cricket.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Good low ball hitter, right, Yeah, I was reading about
that today. Actually, I guess these bowlers throw over one
hundred miles an hour. Some of these dudes that are
throwing it up there to the batter they hit or whatever.
They can't remember exactly what they call that guy. You know,
it's fascinating to watch it. A couple of years ago,
I tried to incorporate a cricket ball as a part
of batting practice in baseball. I think it's like fifty

percent heavier than the baseball. I was looking for more
feel against contact. When you swung the bat hit the ball,
that you get this resistance that I thought would then
transfer when you hit a regular baseball the ball would
travel more quickly. At least you felt that way. So
I tried that several years ago. Having said all that,
and I'm reading what I read today, I think my
conclusion is just like I think their conclusion would be.

I don't see, you know, a lot of cricket happening
here within the near future, and I don't see a
lot of baseball playing happening over there within the near future.
They're gonna love their cricket forever and always in their soccer,
We're gonna love our baseball hopefully. It's kind of interesting
to me though, you know, with the influx of different
kind of groups coming into the United States, is kind

of sport like cricket really grab a foothold here based
on immigration and who's coming into our country right now
and the interest that may follow with that. That's the
one thing that my mind did work in that area.
I think it possibly could work this way where cricket
becomes popular here more so than I believe baseball can
become a popular sport to play in England.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
The next tour was in eighteen eighty eight.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Al Spaulding took a group over there, and I think
his whole purpose was to sell some of his baseballs,
so I'm not sure how that worked out. But the
big one, Joe, was one hundred and ten years ago.
This is amazing.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
I think you would like this trip that we're going
to explain it to you.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
After the nineteen thirteen season, you get the White Sox
and the Giants who get together. This is John McGraw's
manager of the Giants Charlie Kamiski, manager of the White Sox.
The middle of October, they gather in Cincinnati and they're
going literally on an around the world trip. They wind
up coming back the following March to New York. October

to March. They played about thirty some odd games in
the US before they deported Seattle for Japan. So they
go from the US to Japan, to Hong Kong, to Manila,
to Australia, to Sri Lanka, to Egypt, to Italy to France,
and they played their last game in England. They played
at Stanford Bridge, which is the fame grounds.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Of the Chelsea Football Club.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
It's been around, believe it or not since eighteen seventy
seventy before Chelsea started in nineteen oh five. Wow, and
they played a baseball game there the Giants in the
White Sox Joe would you sign up? As John mcgrad did,
And they weren't guaranteed any money by the way. They
thought they could break even on this trip, and they
wound up making some money, but it wasn't like they
were getting paid.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
The players who played in.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
London series, they all got seventy thousand dollars to play
in those international games.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Wow, So would you.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Sign up to give up essentially your entire off season
October to March. You're going right to spring training as
soon as you land in New York Harbor to literally
play around the world.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
I love the concept of around the world at that pace.
Probably not if we can go around the world right now,
like in a nice seven seven seven or something like that,
or one of the big air buses and you could
conclude this in a lot shorter period of time, I
think that'd be rather interesting. Yes, But those guys, I
mean that's all by boat right back then, pretty much absolutely.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
You know, they're boating.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Everywhere and ports of call in and out, different kinds
of hotels, Culturally, the food's different, everything's different. So that
would that's kind of been that they did that, especially
that group from back then, because I would say a
lot of the players weren't really culturally involved. A lot
of you know, back then, the baseball players had to

work in their off seasons, and there were a lot
of farm boys from the hinterlands and not necessarily city folk.
So there's there's a lot of cultural stuff going on
there too, that these guys had never even thought of
were scene before. I would imagine, but in today's world, Yeah,
you put me on a nice jet, I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, no jets.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
By the way, they came back home on the Lusitania,
which was sunk for months later by a German U boat.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Wow, it took about a week across the Atlantic in
an ocean liner. But here's the deal.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
They used this soccer field and they built what I
called the first luxury box ever. Because the day before
the game, King George the Fifth decides he's going to
a baseball game. There is nothing you can do to
sell a baseball game in England more than have royalties
show up. So the King of England says, I'm in.

So they had to string up some netting behind home
plate because let's face it, you don't have that for
a soccer pitch, to protect people from foul balls. And
they literally built the luxury box. He had his own
table because he did keep score. By the way, the
King of England kept score at the game. It was
this wooden box trimmed in palm trees, lilies, hyacinths, narcissus.
He had this essentially upholstered silk chair to watch the

game in. I mean, this is the first luxury box
we're talking about. So King George is watching the game
with great interest and he can't understand and you mentioned
the cricket bowling, it's pretty much throwing the ball straight right.
He can't understand how do these guys make the ball
swoop and dive and curve. And they brought over this
pitcher for the Giants Bunny Hearn to show the King
of England how you grip the baseball and release it

to make the ball curve. So from that day on,
Bunny Hearn would always tell people he taught the King
of England how to throw a curveball.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Did the King get up and act attempt to throw
the curveball at all? I'd like to see those pictures
right there.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, I'm not sure there's no record that he did,
but he did stay for all eleven innings. The game
goes to extras and ends on a walk off home run.

Speaker 4 (13:16):

Speaker 2 (13:17):
How about that?

Speaker 4 (13:18):

Speaker 1 (13:18):
And he set a message to the player as they
were staying at the hotel, Savoy, this is the most
fun I've had since my dad's horse won the English Derby,
so of England really enjoyed the game. Now, I've talked
with the MLB people about getting royalty to these games
over there, because then you're really on the map. Now,
the first year they were there, Harriet Meghan did go

to the game, so they did have royalty then. But
ever since then they've had a standing invitation. Well now
in this case King Charles for the King or Queen
to come to these games, and so far they've not done.
With King George the Fifth did one hundred and ten
years ago, which is show up for a baseball game.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
You're right, I mean that would be a difference maker.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
There's no question that's interesting when you talk about that.
My rush with royalty was very similar when and Missus
Autrey flew over to Juneautry Park and in nineteen eighty
four Instructional League. We were doing really well and the
Angels were ascending. At that point, we set up almost
like you're talking about his screen right behind home plate,
two fluffy chairs. His private plane flew him into Falcon Field.

We sent the van over to pick him up, and
here comes mister and Missus Autrey. We walk him out
to the field right before an Instruction League game begins
sitting right behind home played in these comfy chairs with
the backup screen in front of them. So as you're
describing the King of England watching baseball, there, I'm thinking
about the King of the California Angels. Mister Autrey is

doing the same thing with missus Austrey, very similar situation.
And wow, that just evoked that really weren't memory for me,
because that was one of the coolest things that happened
to us as an ascending minor league organization.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Baseball royalty, the Autres.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
So what did the English think of this strange game
of baseball one hundred and ten years ago.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Well, there was a story in the New York Times.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
By the way, on top of the account, this tells
you what technology was. Then they trumpeted the fact that
it was sent by Marconi Transatlantic wireless Telegraph, like it
was amazing. You were getting accounts from across the pond,
as they say in the New York Times the next day.
So they found certain parts of the game that the
English really were kind of amused by. I guess they

couldn't understand why the coaches talk so much. One of
the fans that it wasn't right to confuse the players.
I'm with you, by the way, I'm all for no
mound visits in a game. Keep the coaches and the
manager off the field, let the players figure it out.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
I know you don't like that, Joe, but.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
That's partially partially an Englishman's version of all these coaches
putting their hands on the game.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
That doesn't happen. I mean cricket, there's no coach involvement.
I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
You see soccer coaches on the sideline and there yapping
a lot.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, but it's it's interesting, like when you get a
take from it.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
They don't go on the field. They don't go on
the field the way baseball coaches advantage.

Speaker 4 (16:04):

Speaker 3 (16:05):
No, that's it's interesting that you know, we never even
I never even put that together as being an issue.
But of course if you're seeing it with first time eyes,
you're going to pick up on things that those of
us that do it all the time do not. That's
that's kind of interesting, but it's necessary in our game.
For those that are listening to this podcast in England
right now, and if you want even more information about this,

we'd be glad to give you even more, Tom and
I would, But I don't think that part of the
game is going to change where it's going to be.
It is necessary, I think, isn't it to have the
coach go out there to talk and slow down the
game so the guy could get warmed up or strategically
talk about some things.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
I think that's part of our game.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, personally, I don't think it is.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
But I'm glad at least we have a cap on
how many times that can be done, you know, the
cap on mountain visits.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's been a good thing. All right.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Here's another thing that English people looked at baseball and said, wow,
that's kind of weird. They didn't like the idea that
foul balls didn't count. Don't forget in cricket there's no
foul balls. You know, you have to cover a circular.
And one of the fans said, you know, it wasn't
right that he actually said, it's a shame. And when
the ball goes so far right, you know, long foul ball,

it doesn't count. That that struck them as odd.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
He had a good drive into the trees. You wish
that didn't count. I mean, you know, there's some similarities.
I love that though, but it's it's interesting. I mean,
like I'm saying, first time e is they're going to
bring out different components of what we do and it's
going to be actually silly to them.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
And I kind of like.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
That, Yeah, I want more for you. This is kind
of funny too.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
One of the pictures was Red Faber and back then
the spitball was legal, right, and he had a good
one and one of the English fans.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Says, why does the pitcher kiss the ball all the time?
Oh my god, Yeah, it's it's a good thing. Now,
just to put a bow on this.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
There's no international game next year where the season will
open in Japan. Baseball thought they were going to Paris,
France next year, but they just had a lot of
trouble getting Essentially the cost was too much, the logistics
to get the game, the stadium, set the sponsorship, they
just couldn't get anything done in time.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
So they had left that open.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
But there is no Paris next year, so there's no
across the pond next year at all. So the international
component of next year's schedule will be starting the year
of Japan.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
And are they considering I mean, like there's more baseball
played in Germany or the Netherlands.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
I don't know, but they feel about that.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
But the Netherlands, right outside of Amsterdam in Harlem, they
have their actual Hall of Fame there. We've actually had
some pretty decent Dutch baseball players here in our country
my experience over there, Holland and Italy were probably the
two most advanced baseball countries. Germany was trying to catch up.
Nothing really in Spain, and like I said, it was

just a.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
Nibble in England.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
So there's there's some places I think that you might
actually find a player to. Of course, the Netherlands we've
already seen that. But my impression was that Italy had
a shot at it from some of the kids that
I saw while I was there. The other ones, I said,
Germany trying, Man the Czech Republic trying, but I didn't
really see it happening.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
I'm glad you brought that up, Joe, because after this
quick break on the Book of Joe, we will talk
about what should baseball do next as far as special venues,
especially international venues to help grow the game. We'll dive
into that right after this. Welcome back to the Book

of Joe podcast. We're talking about international baseball and where.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Should baseball go next?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
And it's interesting, Joe, you mentioned places in Europe where
the game is really does have a foothold. And obviously,
and I've been over to Prague and seen games there.
Germany has a really good league over there. Mike Piazza
is really doing amazing things in Italy and I think
they have a real good chance in the coming years.
And my Piazza is really driving this to get baseball,

major League Baseball to play a game over in Italy.
I could see that happening, and I can tell you,
Joe that I will be the first one on the
plane if that thing gets booked.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Dude, I'm there too. I've done clinics in Italy in
Florence and also in near Milan, a city called Roe
r h O. I've still stay in contact with my
pitching coach, Pino, who was out of Rome and bally Reale.
sALS really connected to the entire baseball federation over there.

The fact that there's been so many wonderful great Italian
American baseball players in the past, whether it was the
Majo Riszutto and you go up to piats right now,
So you have that you have that connection there by
the fact that a lot of their relatives in a
sense have been very successful playing the game in the
United States. So when I was there, some of the

kids really had an actions. That's what I was referring
to before. Remember a little left tended kid, pitcher thrower,
not very big, but he was like eight or nine
and really had the body moved right. The body moved
right when he went to throw. The stroke was good.
Things like that, And I conduct like a week's worth
of clinics was during the winter time in a gym
in the city of Row there Florence. Is just you

sit down in a hotel and a bunch of coaches
from over the country show up and you talk to
them about baseball and different It was like a nine
topic nine one hour topics within three and a half
two and a half days kind of anything. So you're
trying to bring the game to them that way, teaching
them how to coach the players. You're coaching the coaches
to coach the players. There was a lot of interest.

So Italy to me had the greatest foothold regarding really
liking the game and wanting to play the game better
and more.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
I thought they were number one with that.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
And then, of course, like I said, the Netherlands, you
know the Dutch people there, that there's such a bright
group of people.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
They I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Interpreter necessary there. You do your clinic, you just talk
English and you speak. It's all I could do. And
they didn't need an interpreter to understand everything you were saying,
whereas in the other countries they did. So I thought
that they had that going on. Like I said, they
have a hall of fame there. Mister Bill Arci was
no longer with us. He was really instrumental in ringing
the game even the China and Asia. Back in right

after post World War Two. He was a Stanford guy,
went athletic director at Claremont Colleges in southern California. He
introduced me to all this stuff and wow, I was
My eyes are open and I loved every second of it.
So in my opinion, I mean, if you really want
to go to places where the game is understood, which
I think matters, isn't it. I mean, just like we

don't understand cricket, soccer is soccer, but baseball has some
kind of background in both the Netherlands and in Italy,
and I understand where I think that the Italians. Italy
might have a stronger draw regarding the overall if you
talk about the footprint with the reaching component of that

playing there is probably greater than the Netherlands. But god,
I would research both of those places because you have
people that really like the game, you have kids wanting
to play the game. And the next one would be Germany.
I did clinics in Regensburg, Germany. They had a nice
baseball field there. It was not, of course, not major
league standards, but they were really starting to get into
it also, So that would be my big pick. I

would And like I said earlier, I would love Gosh.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
I love Spain.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
I don't know to what extent the interest is there,
because I never had a chance to do clinics there.
But Rome Italy number one and for me the Netherlands
number two.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, a lot of those ballparks in Italy popped up,
you know, after the war. The American gi has introduced
the game of baseball and it really took off. I mean,
certainly not to the extent that soccer is there as well,
But I agree that's got potential there. Now, an interesting
idea some of the players and the Mets and Phillies
came up with, and I think Francisco Lindor the Mets,
was one of these guys you brought it up, is

to play more games when they go over to London.
You know, they felt like with two days off before
one day after, they went a long way to play
two games very quickly. And the idea is, let's play
more games. Go over there and maybe what you do, Joe,
is you bring four teams over and you play sort
of a round robin tournament. Now, I know Baseball looked

into the idea of having a week of games over there,
and they were a little bit concerned that they would
not be able to sell out an entire week of games.
The two games did sell out, the hold fifty five
thousand at London Stadium. But the idea that the players think,
when we go over there, let's make it worth our
while and play more games. I think that's a positive sign.

I think that's an indication of how well the players
regard these trips. And I think that's a pretty good
idea to bring four teams over, maybe play a couple
of doubleheaders not bad.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
And if you're going to do that, I would include
having the youth baseball in those countries play prior to
the major league game. You know, somehow you get the
them involved, get the kids involved, or even I don't
even know if there's any like high school or collegiate
kind of leagues. Just get those that want to play
baseball in those countries on the field also before our games,

like an exhibition game prior to just to expose them
to that too. You're gonna get more families out there.
You probably get some exposure with that. You'd probably get
some media exposure with that too. You get some players,
major league players watching these kids play. I think that
would be important also, even to the point even if
the softball is involved, But I would do that. I
would not be opposed to a longer stay, not at all,

because it is taxing to just fly over and back
and to get acclimated or not acclimated to the time
zones and to the exposure.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
I'd be curious. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
I think if you're really involved the entire country somehow
and their youth programs too into this, you might be
able to get the kind of media exposure you're looking
for because you're really trying to administer to the kids also,
which I think that's after all, that's what you want
to do. If you want the game to take a
footthll there, you need to get the kids involved. You

need to get the youth coaches involved, and you need
to get the parents involved. That's how this has a chance.
So I would like it stay longer and get the
youth involved too.

Speaker 2 (26:14):

Speaker 1 (26:15):
I mean, there is research done here in the States
that if you want to get a baseball fan for life,
you need to get the young person literally in the ballpark.
You know, just following the game is not enough. There's
nothing like the tangible experience of being there in a
ballpark and watching the game when you're seven, eight, nine
years old, and you will become The research shows this

generally much more likely to be a fan for life.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
So that's another reason why they go over there.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
That when it's in your own backyard and you're just
not following it on your tablet or computer, that it
seems more personal. There's a connection that develops. So I
agree with that. Here's another idea, and this is another
good one worth considering. Joe that MLB thought about maybe
they'll do it someday. Is you establish one team as
say London's team, Say it's the New York Mets. Okay,

so every time MLB goes to London, the Mets are going,
and their opponent will change, so other teams will get
a chance to go. But you're establishing a legacy, almost
like a sister city, that the New York Mets are
London's team, and maybe you know the Diamondbacks or Mexico
City's team or San Diego, you know, whatever it is
that you have these long term relationships that establish fan

bases in international cities. I thought that was a very
interesting idea.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
Like it. I do like that a lot.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Actually it can't hurt, right, but I do believe there
has to be some kind of visceral connection between wherever
you're trying to get into and the product itself, and
social media really permits all of that. It goes. I'm
just starting to think about we've talked about I've talked
to you about this for years. Started out as the program.

It's now you can do it on Zoom, but a Skype,
I Skype classes, I Skype classes in advance because I've
always felt that if you really want, like you're talking about,
get him into a ballpark, Before you get him in
the ballpark, get them on a screen like this, because
all these kids, everybody loves tech. So I would really
connect the players with the youth of the country they're

going to, with the sister city whatever, well in advance
and often if you want to get that done zoom.
The way we you do this, just like you and
I are doing this right now, permits that kind of connection.
I don't even know what MLB did. I don't even
know what the advance looked like regarding player involvement and
their attempt to connect them with the fan base. I
don't know, but there's ways to do that to zoom kids, kids, groups, whatever,

with different within different countries. Like you said, the Mets
would just really saturate the London market and the kids
there in advance of them getting there via zoom half
hour in your hotel room on the road, piece of cake.
Those are the kind of things that when I first
started doing Skype years ago with different classrooms, the one
kid in eighth grade in New Jersey you asked me,

how are you guys? How is MOLB utilizing technology to
connect with people my age with kids my age, and
I had to stop and say, well, really, actually, I'm
not aware. So that was my attempt to get the
connection going. And then I haven't done it more recently
because obviously I'm not involved in the big leagues right now.
But do you get like you just say, any Lindor

or Alonso whatever from the Mets in advance going to
play in London, I'd get them connected with the kids
via zoom, whatever it takes to get them in that
kid's house.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Now we're going to get really creative, Joe, because you know,
as you've seen over the years, recently, baseball has played
games domestically in non traditional MLB venues. There was the
Ford Bragg game. The Field of Dream Games in Iowa
was just amazing. They've had two of those. They're worried
maybe it was going to start to get old. I
love those games. They look fantastic on television. I would

keep that in a regular rotation. Right now, they're not
scheduled again, but I would bring that back. I don't
think it would ever get old. It looks so beautiful.
And next week even more so than the Field of
Dreams game because that was based on a movie. I
am looking more forward to the game at Rickwood Field
in Birmingham, Alabama. It is America's oldest ballpark. It was

built in nineteen ten for seventy five thousand dollars. It's
the oldest standing ballpark, and of course great Negro League
history there played on that field. The greats have played
their Satchel Page, Jackie Robinson, Josh Gibson. Willie Mays was
seventeen years old making his professional debut for the Birmingham
Black Barons, playing only on weekends because he was still

in high school.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
His parents said, you can only play on weekends.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Just that the history of that place is amazing that
it's going to look incredible on television. I wouldn't mind
seeing that as a part of regular rotation. But I've
been thinking for years even before this, Joe I was
floating the idea that baseball should be promoting what I
called the Great American Game. And I would do this
every year around the fourth of July because to me, yeah,
it's apple Pie, Chevy and baseball right. It is part

of the American fabric. There's no question reinforced that by
playing in Great American venues. I floated the idea of
building a field with the foothills of South Dakota, you
know the Mount Rushmore behind it. On the National Mall
in Washington, there's a way to there's some open space
there at play a game.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
But how about this one.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
I know we're getting super creative here, Joe, and I'll
ask your idea for this as well.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Central Park.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
For you have the Giants, the Dodgers, the Yankees, and
the Mets playing a round robin tournament, a celebration of
old time New York baseball played in Central Park.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
How great would that be?

Speaker 4 (31:51):

Speaker 3 (31:51):
That's that's a hell of an idea. And it doesn't
have to be this massive stands just like these other venues,
whether you go to the Field of Dreams Report Bragg,
they didn't have a typical major league attendance. But if
you could just get a field up the standard, that's
really the biggest thing. You get their lights right, you
get the field right. The players would love to do
something like that. Absolutely, I think one hundred percent correct.

That would go over really well within that city throughout
the United States, I believe. So again, it's don't worry
about the attendants. The attendance is going to come through
other ways, but they feel itself would be the biggest thing.
Having that laid out, having at pristine and having the
lights right. I think that would be easily done and
a great idea. The other thing, we went to the

place Incliff Stadium in your Patterson, New Jersey area. That's
another one of the former Negro League venues. Probably would
need some help on the field a little bit, but again,
the old stands the way they set up, all the
money and they've put into the museum out in right
field there Mayor dre out there, Mayor andre and Patterson
and all the great work he's done there. I still

like that concept too. I think it might take more
work to get something like that done, but then again
i'd have to look at it more closely.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
I'd love that idea too.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
And if you really wanted to make the argument, if
they can't set up Central Park, if you could set
it up in Patterson, which is really close to the
city there, that's not a bad gig either.

Speaker 2 (33:13):

Speaker 1 (33:14):
And again if you can't bring it up to Major
League standards, because I'm with you, you don't need twenty
thousand people. I mean, I actually think the more intimate
it is that the more cool it is. I mean,
they get when they could play in Williamsport. There's only
what three thousand fans that can go to those games
in Williamsport. But you do need the playing fields and
facilities do need to be.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Major League quality. You know, you can't compromise the safety
health of the players. I get that.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
So if you couldn't build a field in Central Park
for whatever reason, I'm okay with playing the games at
Yankee Stadium. Think about it as almost like an American
Legion tournament shoe an old time in New York and
you call it the New York Baseball Tournament. You just
schedule the series when those teams play each other on
the same weekend in New York round robin. You're not
playing any extra games. You're not going to play like

a semi final in a final. But you're just playing
those series there in Yankee Stadium, And it does have
the feel of like an American Legion tournament in the
middle of the summer.

Speaker 4 (34:11):
I've always liked that.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
I mean to expand on the idea, I always want
it in spring training. I thought at the conclusion of
spring training, you'd have a double header at the Trap
with four teams. I've always thought about the NBA double
headers back in the day at Madison Square Garden. You
get four different teams there on a particular day, and
fans would get to watch four teams play in that

same afternoon or evening the Trop being that it was
turf field, I always thought would be a great way
to conclude spring training by having, like you're talking about,
maybe two days of four teams playing at the Trop.
So it's kind of like what you're talking about. It's
the old NBA double header at Madison Square Garden concept,
and I've always I always loved that idea. As a

kid man, if you get a chance to see four teams,
two games and four teams in one day, Wow, that
kind of blows your mind to waste.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
So I'm all about that.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
I think that's a wonderful idea with like you said,
it's about venue creating the excitement. I do like the
Central Park thing a lot, not just a little bit.
I do even more so than Yankee Stadium. But we're
possible to roll out a field there. They could probably
have it there, you know, once they've established the field
that could be set for the people of New York

to use, or leagues within the city itself for years
to come afterwards. There's a lot going on there that
could benefit baseball in the city post just that one.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Game, and assuming the Oakland A's lead for Las Vegas,
which by the way, is not a done deal, but
let's assume they do. You could have a California Cup
in in season tournament. Get the Angels, the Padres, the Dodgers,
the Giants have a California Cup. You know, the NBA
has this in season tournament.

Speaker 2 (35:49):

Speaker 1 (35:50):
You know, the baseball season is so long that these
international events and these ten pole games do give baseball
the kind of event field that it normally doesn't have
other than All Star Game and postseason.

Speaker 4 (36:01):

Speaker 3 (36:02):
I like again, I never thought of this stuff until
you brought it up. It's interesting. I think it's something
that the fans would buy into. And again, we're talking
about you just we're just trying to create a more
interested fan base everywhere. I think kids would really dig
on that.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
I do.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
No, I like that a lot. I don't like that
a little bit. I think it has a lot of
gravitass to it, and I think, like I said, anything
you can do to get kids more involved. And if
I could see more than one game on any particular
day and it involves four different teams, I'm in Joe.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
We're going to take a quick break, and when we
get back as far as the baseball on hand these days,
I want to talk about the guy I call the
most reliable pitcher in all of baseball.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Who is it? We'll tell you right after this. Welcome
back to the Book of Joe podcasts.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
And by the way, Joe one hundred years ago, Oh,
this is going to wrap up our international section. By
the way, one hundred years ago, in the Letters to
the Editor section of the Times of London, there was
a letter postmark from Windelsham, Crowborough and it was about baseball.
Baseball actually started to gain a foothol a little bit

in the twenties and thirties in England. That was at
the time when people in England were fascinated with American culture.
That's when Hollywood started taking off in the halo effect
of the Hollywood film industry got people in England thinking
that this American stuff is pretty cool and what was
more American than baseball? Back then in the twenties and thirties, right,

our national pastime. So baseball did start to gain some popularity,
which would end, by the way, when war started to
break out in the forties. But twenties and thirties it
did start to grow. So there was a letter to
the editor about baseball in the Times of London exactly
one hundred years ago, in nineteen twenty four, and the
writer says, here is a splendid game which calls for

a fine eye activity, bodily fitness and judgment in the
highest degrees. It takes only two or three hours in
the playing. Remember there used to cricket going on for
days and days, right right right. The writer of this
letter to the editor extolling the virtues of the great
game of baseball was none other than Arthur Conan Doyle. Wow,

the famous author of Sherlock Holmes. That's pretty well, by
the way. Arthur Conan Doyle was a huge sportsman. He
was a cricketer, he was a bowler, he was a boxer,
he was an avid golfer.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Well, isn't our game the intellectual game anyway? I mean
I've always felt that way, and I'm not trying to
be like uppitty or anything. But there's so much going
on per pitch between the mountain home plate. There's so
much to think about if you really apply yourself. So
the fact that he recognized that even back then, it's
kind of impressive. And even then, I mean, I hate

to use the word, but I guess the game's gotten
a little bit more sophisticated now. But anyway, I was
talking to Leonard Coleman, how about that yesterday at the
golf tournament Yogi Bear's golf tournament, and he just mentioned
the fact that I became a National leaguer for a while,
and I told him how much more interesting I thought
the National League game was than the American League game,
and that I am sorry. I really wish they had
kept the separation. I know a lot of people won't

agree with me on that, but as a manager and
the dugout the National League game, to me, there was
a lot more to think about in people when you
just say, well, you're just talking about a double switch
and a pitcher hitting and all that could. Believe me,
there's so many things that think about in advance. They
get it right because the game starts happening pretty quickly.
And furthermore, you get to keep your whole team involved.

Guys that may not start that they get to play
that day through defensive switches or whatever in the latter
part of the game. The point is is that it
is an intellectual game. There's a lot to think about
in our game. Everybody at all ages, they want to
talk about the strategy of the game.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
They want to know.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
They brought it to my attention, Richard Schiff. They were
talking to my attention about the safety squeeze that happened
yesterday with the Yankees, and all of a sudden, in
the back of the New York Post today, bunting and
small ball and singles became appropriate today based on the
fact that there were so many big guys on the bench,
so much to think about every day, so much to put.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Together on a daily basis, if you choose to.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
So. Yeah, I've always felt that way, and I've always
always defend the Nation League game. I still wish there
was that. I do believe it was a better game.
And yes, I'm okay with the pitcher hitting, and then yes,
I'm okay with all the strategy involved in that. The
game today just the way it is, That's why you're
not seeing an entire game being played because it's more

of a bludgeony game as opposed to really trying to
do different things. The Yankees do it for one day
yesterday and everybody got excited.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Well, you're one hundred percent right, of course, And this
is not a complaint. It's just evolution that technology basically
equals in our world convenience, and what we do is
things that take time, things that take diligence are replaced
with things that are quick. And you know that's the
home run ball. And you know, again, it's not a complaint.
Things evolve.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I get it. So baseball did have to adapt, and
I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
I love the National League game, but I understand why
it's dead and buried and it's not coming back. And
it's interesting you brought that up, just to bring this
full circle again, Joe, in terms of you know, it's
sort of the mental component of baseball.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Obviously it's a very physical game.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Fitness does matter, but as our buddy, Sir Arthur Conan
Doyle pointed out, it takes some brains to play the
game too. And back in nineteen fourteen, John McGraw, as
I mentioned, he was the manager of the Giants spearheading
that trip.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
He was quoted in a New York newspaper while they were.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
In England saying the American soldiers were better prepared than
the British soldiers because of the game of baseball, that
it prepared them both bodily and mentally, that they were
sharper than British. Well you can imagine how that went
over in England, right, It caused a huge kerfluffel. And
I know you won't believe this, Joe, but John McGrath
said he was misquoted in the New York newspaper. He

said he never said that, and obviously he was forgiven
because the King of England would not have shown up
the next day if he thought that. John McRock actually
did say the American soldiers were better prepared than the
British soldiers. But the idea that baseball is a game
of intellect as well as physical physical skill has always
been there and always will be.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
I like your point again, talking to mister Coleman yesterday,
I relate to him. I was never so tired after
every game as I was after a nationally game. Mentally,
I've always challenged my players that the games concluded you
go back into the locker room. Of course, hopefully we won.
But the biggest thing is if you're mentally drained, you've
had a great day because you've really applied your focus

to every pitch. Is almost impossible for most guys to go,
like if there's two hundred some pitches, to apply every pitch,
but get as close to that as possible. And when
you do that, you're mentally drained when the game's over.
So I would get back after some really wonderful games,
and sometimes you did lose them, obviously, but all the
different things you had to think about within the course

of that nine innings and stay in advance of those
things and alter those thoughts, and in a in a
split second, you had to just choose something else. And
also the decision to not do something is a decision.
All these things occur and you get mentally exhausted after
the game a nine any game of National League baseball,
and that's that's what I there's one thing I miss,
it's that. And believe me, man, you get through some

points and you really that's where a good bench coach
comes in Handy. You're you're you're really flipping so many
balls up in the air simultaneously mentally that you can't
get confused or you lose track of things. So with
Davey or Brandon Hyde, I mean, these guys were outstanding
at filling into blanks for me when I when things
really got kind of nuts and hot because you're trying
to flip too many things up in the air because

you had to. So anyway, it is the National League
game of baseball, still the best game of baseball. Defend that,
and uh it would it would exhaust you mentally when
when the game was over.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, this may have nothing to do with International baseball,
but I did ask the question who is the most
reliable pitcher in baseball? And for me, Joe, it's Corbyn
Burns at the Baltimore Orioles. I say that not because
he's had a good month or a good season or
a good couple of years. For four years now, this
guy has taken the ball every fourth or fifth day
this year. He's taken the ball into the sixth inning

every single time, has not allowed more than three earned
runs every single time.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Did it again this week.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
In Tampa Bay on Monday night, seven innings, no earned runs.
I mean, you know, Joe as a manager, and this
is Brandon Hyde who's got this luxury if you will,
knowing this guy is going to go out there and
he can save bullpen arms for you every time he
takes the ball. And the best thing of all, and
this gets back to the mental component, Joe, is what
he has done for the rest of that staff, whether

it's Grayson Rodriguez or Kyle Bradish, some of the other
pitchers on the staff who are learning how to be
Corbyn Burns, are watching the way he works. This guy
puts so much work in between starts, the study that
he does, the physical work that he does, the preparation.
I think he's a better pitcher than he's ever been
because he used to be just a cutter machine.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Now he's got.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Multiple ways to get you out, throwing more breaking pitches
than ever, command is off the charts, He's a strike
one thrower. All these things, a young pitcher is just
hanging around like a puppy dog following him around. They're
picking these things up, and now that pitching staff is
coming around.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
It reminds me Joe.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Back in the day Greg Mannix had all these right
handed pitchers who never pitched as well anywhere else except
when they were his teammate, whether it was Steve Traxel
or Pete Smith, and just being around these guys, you
want them on their team because they're good, don't get
me wrong, but also because they affect younger pitchers. And
I gotta believe you saw that with Johnny Lester and
the staff in Chicago. So there are some pictures, and

I'm not saying every ace can do this, but there
are some pitchers who give you so much residual value
that it shows up over the course of the season
besides their stats.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Contagious, man, you're talking about James Shields with me with
the Angels. Shields he was that guy, relentless, work ethic, relentless,
and I guess bulldog is the appropriate adjective to describe
his demeanor on the mound, And yeah, it does impact
everybody else. Chields he was the guy that I think
was He was the first one to do it. But
it became a tradition with the Rays that all the

starting pitchers would greet the picture in the game at
the top step of the dugout after every inning. So
you know, maybe sometimes they got to go up for
some treatment or a little bit of work whatever. They
might not make it that any but for the most part,
they would greet the starting pitcher nightly. And don't think
that did not rub off the time I spent there
and to this day. I mean, it's pretty much a

pitching tradition, rich organization, and James had probably the biggest
impact on it. We had some really you know, David Scotty,
Casmro was pretty good too. All the guys that we
had there were very good pitchers. I love Alex Cobb.
Alex Cobb, to me, that's another guy that with good health,
this guy would have really turned in some kind of

numbers in his career. But all of these guys impact
that the younger guys coming up so once, like Corbin,
he's establishing that tradition and all the young guys that
are around him, you watch that that doesn't rub off in
the future, not only the near future but yours to come.
It will just uphold a strong pitching tradition that Baltimore's

always had back to the Palmer days, et cetera. McNally,
all those dudes. So yeah, it matters when you have
those lead bulls like that, it matters. They back it
up The fact that he doesn't misstarts is so huge,
and the fact that he doesn't worry about the third
time through because he knows how to pitch through that
moment matters, and I promise you one guy can do it.

The resk On Shields used to get upset with me
when I take him out sometimes what he thought was
a little bit too early, until I thought he earned
the right to go deeper because he stopped making the
dumb mistakes.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
When I've talked about this before, one hundred and eight pitches.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
That was my waterloo for him, my landmark number friend,
because I thought I noticed that that number things went
poorly and that's a lot of pitches. I understand that.
So but there was he got to the point, he
got he surpassed that. He got a bunch of complete
games because you know what to do after he got
to that point, because he had the opportunity to do that.
All this stuff matters. All it matters. It's contagious, it

drips off on other guys, and I like what he's
doing that. You're absolutely right, and I think it's gonna
benefit that team for years to come.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Well, Joe, I'm not sure if you've got an English
person to give us the final word on today's episode
of the Book of Joe, whether you've got Willie Shakespeare
lined up or Ardie Conan Doyle and great baseball writers
that they were. I'll give you my quick impressions of London,
by the way, because that was my first time in London. Okay,
and yeah, my goodness, beautiful city, civilized people do not

hank their horns.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
I mean, I'm used to New York. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
As much traffic and foot traffic as goes around that city,
people are very patient. It was very impressive, very impressed
by the cleanliness of it. You know, they used to
say this might be true or a legend.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I don't know that. Washington, d C.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
The streets were laid out so that if the city
were ever invaded, the invaders would get lost.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
They couldn't find their way around. I believe it.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
You've ever been to DC, Well, London makes no sense
at all. I mean, I don't know what people did
before GPS walking around. There's probably still people walking around
from Charles Dickens' days who can't find their way around
the city.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I mean, that is amaze.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
It is a beautiful walkable city, but you can get
lost very easy.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
There's no grid, there's no straight lines.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Everything crosses over, there's all kinds of junctions, and the
parks are beautiful. But just so impressed by this civility,
the cleanliness, the friendliness of the people, A very very
livable city. And I got back here in the States
and realized right away, man, we are in such a
hurry here in America. Oh my goodness, leaning on the

car horn, changing lanes as soon as we get off
the plane. The New Yorkers just bolting it like it's
a race, the great race to customs to try to
get first in line. They don't do that in Europe
in general, at least what I've seen over there. So
very impressed by the civility, politeness that hasn't changed over
all these years, as much as that that city has

so much to offer.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
They do it at the right pace. That's my take
on London, Joe.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
Right on.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
I mean, I've been there a couple times and I
cannot agree with you more. There's a I like the
word civility. There's a courtesy about it. Everybody, like you said,
is not in a hurry. The only thing they do
wrong they did. They drive on the wrong side of
the street, which I'll never understand.

Speaker 2 (50:33):

Speaker 3 (50:34):
I would never I love to drive. I'm a car guy,
as you know obviously, but I don't want to do that.
I really don't want to because I will create an accident.
There's no question that part of the using the other
side of your brain to figure this thing out. I
could not do that. So outside of driving on the
wrong side of the road, I loved everything about I'm
looking forward to my next trip back.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Well said, and to put a cap on things, Joe,
I'm not sure if you got an international philosopher on
tap right here, but you always close it out for us,
and this is your time to do it well.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
I think he is, even though he's American. I think
he does apply it almost any country is so well
read throughout the world for years and always appeal to
that rebel in all of us. I was going with
trends today. I wanted to and you know, we're talking
about trends. Something somebody mentioned to me about, you know,

the third time through the batting order thing. Today we're
talking I'm railing on the National League game right now.
You're talking about the difference between cricket and baseball, and
a gentleman being quoted back in nineteen twenty four that
recognized the intellectual component of our game trends. So I
want Jack Kirouak. I went with Jack Kirouac today. And

great things are not accomplished by those who yield to
trends in fads and popular opinion. Great things are not
accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and
popular opinion. And I guess you know that's me. You know,
it's just a matter of being able to stick to
your grounds, hold your opinions. Of course, Listen, if somebody
comes up with a better idea better thought, you have

to you agree with it, you move on, and yeah,
give the person credit.

Speaker 4 (52:12):

Speaker 3 (52:13):
But I think too many times we are faced with
when trends become popular, everybody abandons what they think or
what they feel might be a better way to do
things and attempt to follow the trend and the crowd whatever.
And that's the most unattractive way to do business as
a human being.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
For me.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
If something's been done that way before, people say it's
been done that way a thousand times before, and to me,
that's the best reason to not do it that way again.
So when I read that today, talking about trends and
talking about our game and all the different things that
people naturally follow just because it becomes popular, to me,
that's not necessarily the right way to conduct your business.

So I thought, I Krawak put it together perfectly today,
and I wanted to go with that.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
Stay away from popular opinion. It's seldom right.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
That's perfect, perfect way to end this international edition of
the Book of Joe on the Road.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Well done, Joe, well time, buddy.

Speaker 4 (53:07):

Speaker 1 (53:20):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
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