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May 8, 2024 55 mins

In this episode of 'The Book of Joe Podcast', Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci discuss the dominating pitching through the first quarter of the season.  Tom explains the hitting crisis while Joe looks at the mental and mechanical ways to approach the plate.  Joe has a surprise thought for fixing the bat woes of Javy Baez.  Plus, what does another injury mean for Mike Trout?  Tom asks 'what are your pet peeves in baseball?' and the guys have a few to discuss!

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aron, welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcasts
with Me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden. Joe,
I'm going to start off by issuing a decree.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Does that sound okay?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Do you know what a decree is? I do.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah, It's actually.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
From a Latin word back in the fourteenth century. Something decided.
So I feel like, you know, I should unroll a
parchment paper before I announce this.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
But here's my decree, Joe. You can no longer say.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
It's early in the twenty twenty four baseball season, right,
We're coming up to basically the quarter pole of the season,
almost twenty five percent of the season being played. And
I know it's something that a lot of managers and
coaches and players lean on when things aren't going right.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's early, there's a long way to go, it's a marathon,
blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
And what I'm seeing Joe around baseball is complete domination
by pitching. I mean, it is such a tough hitting environment.
And I understand as the weather warms up, as the
year goes on, hitting will pick up, but I'm telling you, Joe,
from what I'm seeing on a nightly basis, here, hitting

is really really challenged. The major league batting average is
two thirty nine. Will it get better yes, Will it
get much better no. I think we're looking at a year, Joe,
where pitching is going to continue to dominate. So that's
my decree, is that if you're waiting for your team
to start busting out, it ain't happening. This is the

game that we have right now. I mean, you're watching
these games, Joe, you see what is happening to hitting here.
It is tough to find real good hitting. I know
you've got teams like the Phillies, the Braves, the Dodgers,
but overall hitting is down this year, and like way down.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
I guess there's a variety of factors that have to
be involved in something like that. For years, I've been
professing claiming that when it comes to data and analytics,
it really does sway to the picture's favor whether it's
how pictures should pitch a certain hitters, the shape of
his pitches, et ceter or what this guy is good
or bad at. Then on top of that, you place
your defense in the right spots because that's where the

large sample size is and almost infallible. So I think
that starts with that right there, there's no question about that.
Beyond that, we've talked about the velocity, and now you're
talking about teams like Boston did only throw breaking balls.
Hitters are constantly in a state of adjusting right now,
and again they're in a reactive moment. They're not proactive.
Defense is proactive. Pictures are proactive. Hitters are reacting to stuff,

and the stuff seems to be getting better constantly. What's
the answer. I'm not one hundred percent sure what the
answer may be. Again, if you could just somehow relegate
your power to something that just happens and not attempt
to manifest power, because that's what it's all about. Everybody
talks about you win only by the home run, but
if you want to hit the ball, you definitely have
to make different adaptations in terms only mentally in order

to me more make more contact more consistently. So again,
it's part of it. I think it's philosophical, But a
big part of it is that pitching and defense have
enormous I think advantages based on the data analytical game.
That's being played today, and listen, I've tried for years
with that too. For me, as a hitting coach, you

just need to be able to teach your hitter to
be able to react to different situations. The two strike approach,
I'm still a big believer in that. I don't think
it's preached all that much. I think the opposite field
is large. I like base hits when it's necessary. We
all like the three an homer who doesn't ear. We
were talked about it years ago and he was right.
But the pitcher ain't throwing three ren homers. You up

there trying to hit it, it's not happening. Brother. Putting
the ball in the game make the other team execute.
You know, the stolen base is becoming more prolific, but
it still doesn't necessarily ensure runs. So again it comes
down to for me, pitchers and defense have all the advantages.
Hitters have to concede and attempt to do something else
in order to become at least maybe two fifty average,

and again, putting the ball in play, base hits opposite field,
opposite field line. Thanks to that nature. Otherwise it's going
to stay the same.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, there's no way we're getting the two fifty I'd
love to see that, but that ain't happening.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
And I'm going to give you credit, Joe.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
You were on this early as the information started pouring
into the game, and probably now almost a decade. I
want to go back to at least twenty fifteen. And
you're absolutely right. Pitching dictates in baseball. Hitting is reactionary.
So you know that the advantage of information is to
me so much on the run prevention side. And just

since twenty fifteen, just the information that pitchers have at
their disposal has really really exploded, and we're seeing pictures
one after another after another. And this is obviously we've
talked a lot about the injury rates in Major League Baseball.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
This is what.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Pictures going down and they're just so the supply of
pitch with great stuff. Let me just start with throw
some numbers at you here just to define what I
think is a hitting crisis going on right now. As
I mentioned, the batting average this year is two thirty nine. Now,
there's only been in the history of this game, going
back to the nineteenth century, there's only been one year

where the batting average has been lower. That was nineteen
sixty eight. And of course that was the year. You know,
they had to change the rules. They changed the strike zone,
they lowered the mound. They say, we got to do
something to get more offense back in this game. Hits
per game, if you go to a baseball game this year,
the average number of hits for a team in a game,
it's seven point ninety nine. It's it's slipped under eight

per game. The only three years in baseball history where
you would see a few were hits in a game
nineteen oh eight, nineteen oh nine smacking the dead ball era,
and again nineteen sixty eight. Doubles the lowest rate of
doubles since nineteen eighty nine. Slugging percentage lowest rate since

nineteen ninety two. Uh, this goes on and on and on, Joe,
where you know, there's just I just don't see it
happening here. And you're absolutely right. I think we've talked
a lot about velocity. The number of the percentage of
fastballs actually is going down, and velocity this year is
actually a little bit down, and you go back to
twenty fifteen, it's only up one mile per hour. It's

not really velocity, it's really the shape of pitches and
breaking pitches now velocity, Yes, you can't really separate and
isolate pitching. You have to look at things used in tandem.
You know this, Joe, sequencing is super important. But just
to give you example, in twenty fifteen, pitchers through twenty
percent breaking balls, that average spin rate of twenty one

ninety three. This year they're throwing thirty one percent breaking
balls and the spin rate is three hundred RPMs higher.
To me, again, I don't want to just isolate breaking pitches,
but when the breaking pitches are being thrown more often
and with more spin, then that to me is a
big factor in what's going on and why are they

throwing more? Because of these pitching labs, they can teach
guys how to position their hand on the ball and
reshape the pitch. You can even shape a pitch based
on the better swing in the box and where you
want to get it. It's so technical. Now, what's happening
with breaking pitches that? Man, I feel sorry for young
kids coming up from the minor leagues and what they're
seeing at the major league level.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah. Again, be all that as it may, and it's
all true. So what do you do? You just concede,
and again it's the definition of insanity, right, keep doing
the same stuff expecting a different result. It's a philosophical
adaptation for me. Offensively, we've talked about this too, and
everybody has homers win games. That's because nobody knows how

to hit anymore and they can't strain together base hits. Yeah,
I think it's a philosophical change needs to be had.
Contact has to be more sought after, ball has to
be moved. Action on the basis on me in but
just to sit around and wait for the ball to
go over the wall. That's That's part of the big
reason to me with all the swing and miss strike
out is the fact that you are trying to hit

the ball far every swing that you take. Remember a
couple of years ago, my first year with the Angels,
in a meeting in the in the big conference room
there talking about just I was talking about the two
strike approach and whatever, and one of the young guns
there when I brought it up. Now, I don't want
my guys. I don't want our guys to change their
swing with two strikes. I want them to continue to

attempt to hit the ball far. A cky Bobby they're
all Ricky Bobby's, you know, they want to go fast,
and to me, that's that's the problem. That is the problem.
In a nutshell, I would really I'd love to be
around the group that actually really gets into teaching hitting
as it had been taught in the past. Yeah, you're
gonna have some guys that could power the ball, yes,

and I want them to continue to power the ball, yes,
But even if they're power hitters, I do like the
idea that they know what to do when they get
the two strikes, something different, just a little concession, please
here or there, move the baseball, and I'd be right
back to Timmy Salmon. I mean, you know, Timothy would
strike out, but Timothy also knew how to down shift,
you knew how to accept the walk, you knew how

to but always chase. But then, of course you'd get
to the point I'm not gonna let that happen again,
and you stop chasing again. I don't know what the
overall philosophy is among each team, of course I don't,
but it just appears to be that again once again,
everybody's drinking from the same till the same well, where
we're just going to try to power the ball, and

with that you're gonna chase. You're gonna chase elevator veloss.
You're gonna chase strike ball, sliders and curveballs and changeups,
and with that you're still gonna get these same kind
of the numbers that are just not going to get
better unless it's a mental adjustment on a physical adjustment.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
For me, I think there has to be a more
balanced approach. You can't have everybody swinging for home runs.
I look at a guy like Steven Kwan who's on
the il right now with the Guardians, but love watching
him play. He has swung and missed at one fastball
in the zone the entire year. He's going to put
the ball in play. You know, I want a team
of I need balance in my lineup. I can't have

everybody swinging hit the ball out of the park with
two strikes. I need a combination of guys who can
do that. But I also want guys who can move
the baseball and get people in. And I do think
there's too much of you know, that big swing. I've
got three swings. They're all going to be big. But
I will say this too, I think the biggest problem
if you will in this hitting crisis. Is the quality

of stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
On the mound.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
I really believe that. I think it's never been better,
and I've been saying that for years. Think about this.
I just looked at this today. The percentage of pitches
in the strike zone is higher than it's ever been
since we started tracking it in twenty fifteen, and the
batting average on those pitches in the strike zone is

lower than it's ever been. So pitchers have the stuff
now to get you out in the st strike zone.
Did they get you to chase? Yes, that's happening too.
Highest rate of pitches in the zone since we started
tracking this in twenty fifteen, and the lowest batting average.
That's to me an indication of the quality of absolute
nastiness that we're seeing a night in and night out basis,

including from guys coming out of the bullpen in the
fifth inning.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Right. Well, that's what with the rays. Our big thing
as we ascended in the two thousand and six on
up ranges, that we needed pictures that can get hitters
out in the strike zone. That was the Yankees and
the Red Sox at that time, because they wouldn't chase.
They were really they had finite strike zones, they weren't
going to go out of it. And if we could
not get hitters out within the strike zone, we were
not going to beat those teams. So that was something

that Andrew and the guys really sought. Was that kind
of a picture. And now you're telling me everybody is
that kind of picture, And again, does that speak to
their stuff just being overwhelmingly great, which it is. I'm
not listen. I'm on board with that number two. Though again,
if Kwan could do it, why can't other people do it?
Why can't the downsh if Why can't more emphasis be

placed on, you know, the top half of the ball,
inner half of the ball, middle, middle, off field approach mentally,
and then you permit the speed of the ball dictate
where you're going to hit it. Something soft in the zone,
you're going to pull a little bit more, something hard.
It should be middle, opposite field, and just work off
maybe just a simple philosophy like that in order to
get to better contact. Most of the swings and missus

velocity wise, are normally going to be under the ball
on a pitching within the strike zone, and normally the
breaking ball is going to be over the ball when
when you're swinging this within the strike zone. So it's
it's a re education, I think. And again it's not
going to happen overnight on a major league level. If
in fact this appears to be an issue, this is
what's got to start in the minor league's teaching wise,

and beyond that in the collegiate ranks, because after all,
the minor leagues have been shrunk so badly that there's
not nearly the number pull of players that we've had
in the past in the minor league system. So philosophically speaking,
it's got to go vacuum into the collegiate level and
high school level because honestly, when you it's hard to change.
It's hard to change what you're doing as you get

older if you've been doing it for the like five, six, seven,
ten years. So all this stuff has to be addressed
early on, and it has to be rewarded. I've always
believed in that whatever you want, if you want more
contact on the major league level, reward it rewarded, and
that whenever you're going to reward it, that's going to
be something financial. So whatever you want to bring to

bear reward it rewarded financially, talk about it, make it important,
and then if you do, you're going to see an improvement.
You're going to see it by coming out of your mouth.
Does somebody in charge superior to an inferior conversation? It's
going to get better if you make that attempt. But
it has to be a sincere attempt. Everybody's got to
believe it's the right thing to do, and everybody's going

to jump on board, and then you will see some results.
I do believe that.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
I'm glad you brought up the minor leagues, Joe, because
to me, I think the gap between the minor leagues.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
And the major leagues as a hitter is greater than
it's ever been. And I'll tell you why.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Minor league hitters when they're promoted to the major leagues,
they're all hitting. I mean, you look at the PCL numbers,
and I know the PCL has always been a hitters league.
Era is probably over five by now. These guys all
have ops is around one thousand that ain't happened in
the big leagues.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Why is that it used to be?

Speaker 1 (14:24):
And you know this, Joe Man two three four decades ago,
you know you didn't see big time velocity until you
got to the big leagues. Now everybody's got velocity. They
see velocity, they hit velocity in the minor leagues. To me,
the biggest thing is swing decisions, and just the command
of breaking pitches in the major leagues to me, is
so much better than it is in the minor leagues.
These guys are overwhelmed in terms of recognizing what the

swing decisions are. I think the biggest jump is swing decisions,
and I think right now it's so hard for these
young players.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
And part of this is the hype.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Machine that's become, you know, the prospect coverage, everybody coming
up as the next Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle. There's
so much attention on them, the next so high. We're
seeing a ton of young players get to the big
leagues now and failing, I mean badly.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
And I really.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Do believe it's swing decisions. It's so hard to get
to the big leagues knowing you're going to see a
ton of breaking pitches in the zone and sometimes out
of the zone, and deciding what to swing at, what
not to swing at.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
It's so hard for young player.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
I think right now, for a young hitter and especially
for hitting coaches. Man, the climate has never been harder.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
I'm waiting for and maybe it's already happening. You probably
probably have seen this, as I haven't had a chance
to bringing the raking ball machine out for batting practice.
I mean, for years, all we've ever done is have
a coach Dan a little bit shorter on the mount
on the bottom of the slope, and all he jumps
to do is throw a nice little cookie down the middle,
probably sixty to sixty five miles an hour, and hitters

always talking about timing, which is important. But with all
the machines that are available to us now, and they're portable,
they get out there very quickly and easily. They can
be transported while you're on the road, or maybe in
each team supplies for the team coming in, something to
that effect. But I'm waiting to see more of that
happening on the field more consistently, because, after all, if

I'm placed playing the Red Sox right now, based on
what we talked about last week, I would really make
a big push to get the breaking ball machine out
there for batting practice and just get it in your
head watching the spin and always I set it up
two ways. I would set up the ball strike pitch,
and I would try to set up the strike ball pitch.
I remember JR. Phillips, really good left handed, young, left

handed hitter I had with the Angels, susceptible to chasing
underneath him left handed from the right handed breaking ball.
I set the machine up to throw a ball, and
I wanted to track a ball. I want him to
not swing at this pitch. I want you to track
the ball, see the spin, see what starts, and know
when not to swing. Sometimes your better decisions to be made,
our decisions to not do something. So I'm curious if

that's part of the landscape now or not. If it's not,
I'm playing the Red Sox, brother, I'm bringing out a
breaking ball machine.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting, Joe.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I've seen it occasionally, and generally it's been maybe just
a couple of players, not a whole group where they
bring that machine out on the actual field. So much
that goes on now happens in the cages, because every
team now is just tremendous facilities underneath, and they actually
have these pitching machines now, and they cost about a
half a million dollars, if not more, where you can

actually dial up the exact spin and shape of that
breaking ball that you're seeing that night. If you want
to see Cutter Crawford's sweeper, you can just dial it up.
There's actually in the most advanced machine now there's a
video image of Cutter Crawford or whoever started you're pitching
that night that's actually on the screen and the release

point his particular release point, that's where the ball's going
to come out of. And if he has a lower
release point on the sweeper, it'll change to mimic that.
It's amazing the way that they can actually with technology
pretty much copy clone, if you will, the actual pitch
shape that you're going to see that night. There's a
lot of guys who will go in there or in

some do it with the virtual reality to put the
headset on and see that pitch over and over and
over again. It ain't helping these pitchers still have the
advantage the technology, and you said this to start out, Joe,
it's helping run prevention a whole lot more than it
is run production.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Last point on that, when I am a big proponent
of you know, staying off your feet I like the
idea of guys using the cage during the season to
not be standing out there the whole time, especially on
a hot day, especially on a day game after a
night game. I'm okay with them hitting inside. I've never
been against that and it's been very successful. However, I
do believe the breaking ball. I would hit that on

the field. I think it's different. I think it's different
on the field when you get out there actually in
space and time, you know, with the turtle there the
batting cage itself, but otherwise you got all this huge
backdrop background, which is different. It's like shooting about when
you play basketball in high school whatever, and you have
this small gym and all of a sudden you go
to an arena, and where do I shoot this ball?

It's like a pe and the ocean. Where does this go?
I like the idea of hitting breaking ball on the field.
That would be the difference for me as opposed to inside.
I just think it sets up differently mentally, and you
could actually see your ability. I'm just going to shoot
the ball between first and second. I'm right hand and hitter.
You stay on this sucker, I'm gonna let it travel

I'm going right there, and I do believe this is
my opinion that under these circumstances, if I want to
teach a guy to hit a breaking ball better, I'm
going to do it the breaking ball machine on the
field often because what happens is they do it. They
do it sporadically every once in a while. I'm good.
It's like when you practice something in spring training, different plays,

and all of a sudden, you don't use the play
at all until like June, and then you put it
on and you screw it up and everybody's going, WHOA,
we did that in spring training. That was like months ago. Brother,
So this is one thing based on everything you're telling me,
and I don't I haven't been there in a bit,
but that would be the one thing I would push
my early work assignment, especially Brank a ball machine on

the field, different guys coming out on a daily basis,
and really, let's work on this where we can see
it and feel it in real time, real distances. I
think I'd like to see how that would work out.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Hey, we're going to take a quick break right here
on the Book of Joe podcast and we get back.
I want to continue our deep dive into the state
of hitting, the sad state of hitting in the big leagues.
And I also want to ask Joe about two of
his former hitters, Hobby Baiez and Mike Trout.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
We'll do that right after this. Welcome back to the
Book of Joe podcast.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
You've been talking about the state of hitting in Major
League Baseball and we're getting to a crisis point here
a pitching dominated game. There are nine teams ninet teams,
almost the third of major league teams are hitting no
better than two twenty seven so far the twenty twenty
fourth season. The White Sox, the Reds, which is surprising,

the Cardinals, who are absolutely terrible, the Oakland A's, the
Seattle Mariners who are actually in first place, Detroit Tigers,
Pittsburgh Pirates, Toronto Blue Jays.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
And Miami Marlins.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Now, the number of players who are hitting under two
hundred qualified. That means they have at least with at
three point one plate appearances per game played. So qualified
hitters hitting under two hundred is eighteen. That's tied for
the most and I realized it probably won't end this way,
But just to give you a perspective on how unusual

that number is it's tied for the most in the
season since eighteen eighty four. The most since eighteen eighty
five has been nine players hitting under two hundred, and
that happened during the war in nineteen forty four, So
you had a lot of guys just filling in because
a lot of the better players were doing service for
their country. And just to give you an idea of

some of the players hitting under two hundred this deep
into a season again, almost a quarter the way through
the season, Randy Rosarina, Boba Shit, Andrew Benin, Tendi, Nick Castiganos,
Matt Olson. These are really good players. Will they finish
under two hundred? No, But the point is this is
very common now. If you see a hitter now in
the big leagues who's hitting two thirty nine, you're like,

that guy's got to pick it up, right, that's actually
pretty good in today's game, you have to readjust your
site to people and stop getting on guys are it
in two thirty nine, because that's keeping your head above water.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
It's just crazy. And that brings me to hobby by
as Joe.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
And you know he's still the same hitter where you
can just flip the slider on the outside part of
the plate. Off the plate, he's going to chase it.
Nobody sees more pitches out of the strikes home because
he's going to keep swinging at it.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
And here's my theory, Joe, and you know him really well.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think the changes of the game have really hurt
Hobby Bayez because when he was young, he got by
on almost pure athleticism, incredible batspeed. He was as good
of an opposite field hitter as anybody I saw, especially
on fastballs. That's all gone now, and I think the
way the game has changed with all this spin here,
they're just carving him up.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
If you've got a flaw in today's game, first of.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
All, they know it on the day you get to
the big leagues because they have the data from the
minor leagues, and they're getting him out the same way
time and time again. And I think just the way
the game is now, it's really conspired against hitters like
Hobby Bayez who just don't have a really good specific
plan at the plate.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Joe, you know him well.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
We've talked about his baseball IQ such a smart player.
He's still one of the best defenders and taggers that
you can actually see anywhere in the middle infield. But offensively, man,
it's tough watching this guy get out the same way
night in night out.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah. Well, we went Spurs and Chicago, and my way
with Hobby was I would call him in the office.
We'd have a discussion and I was just and I'm
sure they've done that there, but I would sit there
and recap what's going on and then give him my thoughts.
And you've already touched on it, and it's true. I mean,
he has to think right center first, is a perfect

example of what the speed of the ball dictate where
you're going to hit it. And furthermore, with him, he's
got it and for as much as it's antithetical to him,
he's got to take power out of his head. And
he's just really he's one of those guys that has
to think single up the middle or the right center
field gap or even down the right field line first,
and then work it off that. I don't know to
what extent they've done it, but he's got this. I

used to say, he's got the John Daily swing. He
had this big old wrap it around the back of
his head swing and when he would time it up
it would, you know, be a beautiful thing. Hits the
ball really far and batting practice. He's fun to watch
because again, think about it as a golfer, if you
really take that big swing and rap it behind your
head like that, in golf, you want to be a
little bit more accurate. But him, he doesn't matter where

he hits it. He's ass hats h it it as
hard and far as he can, and he would so
I at some point, he's got to have to make
a mechanical adjustment. He's got to cut it down. He's
got to shorten that up. He's got to have a
completely different thought process. But that's not easy to do
for him right now and where he's at in his career.
But that I believe that it's got to be middle
to feel like you've suggested, it's got to be. And

again a perfect example, breaking ball pitched for a ball
set it up. Watch this because he sees it in
the game, and I know he knows, but this would
be a one on one thing too. It would not
be the bunch of people watching this. This kind of
situation for me with the hitter, a player that's really struggling.
I used to like to get him out early, early,
when nobody else was around, and we'd go over stuff

because sometimes guys are actually embarrassed by that. They'll never
admit it, but they are. So when you want to
make a deep dive of adjustment, get him out with
nobody else around. And it could be almost every day,
like what is it twenty we said twenty one consecutive days.
In order to bring a habit or create a new
one by doing something differently, this something requires like that

kind of an approach, and we require, you know, a
total bund from the player. So that's that's my thought.
With that, I'll say another thing smites on nuts and
it might be a little bit too late, but I
think Mary Wells did it. Scout could hit left handed.
He could really hit left handed. He's he's that good
of an athlete, or at least take more batting practice

left handed. I'm a big believer in that just do
things differently. In order to see differently, to feel differently,
to visualize differently. It requires a unique kind of a
strategy to get him out of where he's at right
now and into something differently. All those things, I would
just make it wide open, but to work with him

would be if it's a seven o'clock game and it's
at home, it probably probably it would be about two
o'clock on the field.

Speaker 2 (26:58):

Speaker 1 (26:59):
By the way, I like the idea. I've seen him
swing left handed. You know, even if it's a batting price.
The situation, you know, you almost want to shock the
mind and do something completely different to get out of
this rut that you're in. And also I should point
out he's had a bulky lower back issue too. I
mean a lot of times he won't play the day
game after a night game. He's lost explosiveness and he's

not the same athlete. It's still a really good one,
but that explosiveness still isn't there. And by the way,
I look at this Detroit Tigers team, and they're a
good example to me of what's happening in the game.
They're pitching is really really good and it's being wasted
because their offense is just it's awful. Baiez has been,
you know, pushed way down to the order. Hitting eighth,

he's pretty much almost an automatic out because you don't
need to throw them strikes. And they have a lot
of young players Joe that just on the major league level.
They're just getting overwhelmed. Colt Keith and Parker Meadows and
Carry Carpenter. And then there's Spencer Torkelsen. He was the
number one overall pick in the draft. He had a
really good year last year. He started slow and came on,

hit some home runs late, looked like, Okay, this is
the guy that you saw when you drafted him. Won
to one and I see the guy now, Joe, and
he's lost as well. And what I don't like is
he creates absolutely no rhythm with his hands. He is
hitting under two hundred on fastballs, getting beat consistently on fastballs,
late on fastballs, out front, on breaking pitches. His pull

rate actually is sky high, as over fifty percent because
he's pulling off speed pitches. And you know, Joe, that's
the worst place to be it as a hitter, where
your timing is so messed up. You're late on fastballs
and you're early on off speed. And that's where he is.
And it reminds me of Cody Billinger when he first
came up. He moved nothing in his hands until the
ball was actually released by the pitcher. Good enough athlete,

great bat speed to get away with that for a while.
Eventually caught up with him and he's made some changes.
I think that's where Spencer Torkoson is at. I see
this guy hitting with this upright posture. He's really big
on mechanics and trying to be as balance and as
quiet as possible, but there's nothing happening with rhythm in
terms of his hands and getting that bat started before

the ball's out of the pitcher's hand. And again he's
doing that from an upright position, so there's nothing engaged.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Chili Davis once told me, and he's a great hitting coach,
you always need to be gaining on velocity. You know,
you can't wait on velocity. You've got to get yourself sick,
get some rhythm going in it. And I think Spencer
torkal Sai with no home runs, just getting overwhelmed on velocity.
He's a guy, and I know he's big on process,
and a lot of these hitters rely a lot on process, process, process,

But the Big League is about results, man, and he's
another guy. I would get him back in the lab
and try something different, create some rhythm in the batter's box.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Wow, there's a lot to unpack there. You know when
you just a couple of quick notes from me. Number one,
he's definitely in the maybe mode. Sounds to me like
he's guessing. Ersty Darren Urstatt Ersty would get like that sometimes,
And I said, EARSTI you're in mode where it's maybe
a fastball, maybe it's a breaking ball. To me, when
you get into maybe mode, it's you've got a narrow

dyne to make it always one thing and for me
always preferred fastball. If your mind is not set mentally
to whatever that velocity could be, there's no way you're
going to catch up to it. You can't. You can't.
And if the breaking ball gets so embedded you're worried
about chasing that, and then you have to like split
your concentration before the balls thrown on the breaking ball. Also,

no chance the guy chooses to throw a fastball, there
is zero chance you hit that ball like you would
like to with any kind of authority. So it sounds
like he's absolutely in the in the maybe mode. And
number two, you did mention he's really into his mechanics,
and that's that's that's our fault. I mean that really
the advent of mechanics really teaching mechanics. I tell you
exactly when it happens. In the eighties became a more

of a mechanical game when it came to hitting, as
opposed to more of a mental game. Because even as
a young player in the seventies, I remember going out
for early work and all it was was hit the
ball part of the part of the other early work
was hit the second basement in the foot with the
line drive. And then from that thought, all your mechanics
are set up off of that thought. The ball is
going to get deeper, you gonna stay above the ball,

you hit, drive the ball the other way. No fly balls,
line drive, hard ground ball. Everything's going to be set
up by that one thought. But now in the early eighties,
I'm not blaming anybody, but like when Benny Heinz came on,
or Rick Down came on, and that particular group Jimmy
Lefever came on where they were really good at explaining mechanics,
then then it really became more in vogue to discuss
mechanics more than the feel of the game necessarily. And

I just think, and again here comes where technologies both
could be both good and bad. If you're just so
absorbed into the tech of the game and the mechanics
of the game, you forget to compete. I remember with KB,
Chris Bryant KB being on deck in the hole getting
ready for his set bat and I used to like
BS with but before he went up there, just try
to help him out a little bit. But my advice

almost one hundred percent of the time to KB was listen, man,
go up there and compete. Go up there and beat
that guy. Don't let him eat you. He's trying to
keep food off your table. Beat that picture, period. Compete
with him. So I think we don't teach compete. We
teach everything but compete. We rely so much on the
mechanics of the game in order to get us by

that sometimes you just you forget to just go out
there and play West Tasleton and you want to beat
West Tasleton. You know why because they had a different
uniform on and you hated them, even though you didn't
know why. I mean, it really comes down to that
sometimes too, And I don't know that players rely on
that enough. I'm gonna beat you. You're on the other team,
I don't like you, I'm gonna beat you. And I
still believe that there's some power in that thought. Also,

So these are the kind of things to me as
a coach if a guy is struggling that badly, and
even say for Hobby as an example, I would try
to get him out of the maybe mode. Let's set
on one thing right here, and let's get more into
the mental approach. Like you want to talk process routine.
How do you walk up to the plate? Todd Green,
Jackie Snow, I'd have him the bat as they went

up to the plate, squeeze it, squeeze it, squeeze it squeeze.
At the moment the head of the bat touchtone plate, relax.
You don't know what relaxes until you know what tight is.
As an example, the breadth. Another thing with Todd Green
to have him look at Jackie was Jackie, look at
the label on the bat, the louisbo Slugger label, whatever
it was at that time. And when you looked at

that before you got in the box, that meant middle
of the field. That meant middle. That's all. I wanted
them to focus on his middle. So you would do
little things like that to get them off of the mechanics,
and then you could react because brother, But the way
the ball's being thrown right now, if you have any
mechanical noise going on, you're not going to be able
to react. And any kind of teaching or I guess

learning you have to do before the game. If you
want to work off a t soft toss whatever, fine,
But once you get into that game, brother, it's got
to be c ball, hit ball, and you got to
train yourself to do that. Also, long answer, but I
don't even know to what extent some of these guys
you're really paying attention to that. Are they so absorbed
in their physical mechanics.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
It's a great point.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
I mean, as you know, the batter's box in a
game situation is not the place to be thinking at
all about mechanics. That's the time to be an athlete,
and as you said, to compete. I just think today's hitter,
based on the way pitching and stuff, is so good
to me.

Speaker 3 (34:23):

Speaker 1 (34:23):
You have to pick out one approach. You've got guys
in the batter's box. If you think you're trying to
cover everything, you are going to get buried by the
game today, and generally it's going to be fastballs. You
get a fastball to hit. You can't miss it in
today's game, so you better be ready for it.

Speaker 3 (34:39):

Speaker 2 (34:39):
There are times with some guys.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
And especially relief pitchers, are going to throw their slider
seventy five percent of the time.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
You've got to look for that, but for a hit
or at a step of the box.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
To think about mechanics or to think about covering every
single pitch, No, you're done.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I mentioned Mike Trout. Mike Trout's the guy. His batting
average is suffered and you know.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
He's become a slugger. There's more swing and missing his
game as well. But now he's not able to play.
Mike Trout just had surgery to repair a torn meniscus,
and that's a tricky injury, and those things vary depending
on how much of the meniscus was torn. But this
is going to be months more so than weeks for

Mike Trout. You probably will see him by the end
of the year. But it's a tricky rehab process because
that you think about the the meniscus is pretty much
like a gasket in your knee, and seventy five percent
of it does not get any blood flow into it.
So when they talk about repairing it, Most of the times,
all they're doing is clipping off part of it. It
does not repair itself. He's going to be fine, but

the rehab process is really long. It's actually if you
actually take the whole thing out, the rehab process is shorter.
But anyway, this is another year for Mike Trout when
we're not seeing him play every day. He has not
had five hundred played appearances in the season since twenty nineteen.
We're talking about five years, and I know the first
year that was pandemic related, but five years we're not

getting to see Mike Trout play on an everyday basis
and get five hundred played appearances. It's a shame if
you're an Angels fan, a Mike Trout fan, and a
lot of people are obviously it's a shame, But even
if you're a baseball fan, it's a true shame because
I'm thinking we're missing a big part of, you know,
a Hall of famer's prime of his career. My question
for you, Joe, is Mike Trout at this stage when

he does come back to the Angels, you know what
is he? And can you still play Mike Trout in
center field at thirty three years old, which he will
turn in August, and with this injury history.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, I mean those are things that you know, I
was trying to address while I was there too. I
think it would be wise to get him out of
center field. We talked about that. It was met with
some resistance, but whatever takes to keep him on the
fields what you do, and that would include days off
on occasion, just to make sure that he stays rested.
And possibly I don't know why. I mean, he's had

this propensity to break down and like I really freaky,
Like the time he bought his cap. He's handing Butterfield
his helmet and all of a sudden his cap blew out.
And from what I understand, the meniscus problem was kind
of the same kind of a thing. It was us
in occuus and all of a sudden that was an
issue too. So again I guess I'm contradicting myself because
these situations where he's gotten hurt have not been apparently

like an overuse or or a difficult moment or awkward situation.
It's just happened. It's just unfortunate. I mean, he is
all of that. He is that good. He's a great guy.
Probably one of the best bodied baseball players I've ever
been around. The guy could have played any sport. Well,
it's a shame. It is a shame, and I don't
know when it comes back. I would guard it a

little bit. You know, you still want to treat him
like trot and let him play as often as possible,
but he still want to guard it a bit. Whatever
it takes, put him in a corner, just take some
of the emphasis off of it. We all at some
point have to bury, you know what, a portion of
our egos in order to make adjust and I it
wouldn't be a bad idea at all, just to again,

just to take care of him. The big thing with
Mike Trout. If I'm the Angels, I want him on
the field. Whatever it takes to keep him on the field,
I would do that. And so you describe the meniscous
component of it. Hopefully that turns out well, But yes,
I would, I would do something differently.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, you brought up the idea. I think it was
spring training one year. Yeah, yeah, taking them out of center, yeah,
kick the hornets nest with that.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Right, yeah, Oh my god, I mean everybody got involved
in it. Just seemed like the right thing to do.
And it's not positionally. I mean, like Pete Rose moved
all over the place, So you could go around a
lot of different guys that were pretty good athletes or
position players. They moved, They moved at some point in
their career. It's no big deal. It's for you. It's
for you, and it's for us, whether it's for when,

it's for you and for us simultaneously, and then that's
kind of a win win. So that's all. That's all
that was all about. It's nothing else to do. You know,
at that time, Brandon marsh was available. You know, Joe
Odell was as sending a bit, but there are other options.
The point is Mike Trout on the field as often
as possible. How do we do that? What are the
concessions we both have to make to do that? And

you do it pretty simple for me.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, and he'll be back and he'll still be a
great player. You know, I mentioned the batting average, but
Mike has become just a pure slugger these days. Sits
the ball a lot to the poll side, gets the
ball in the air. He's going to come back and
be dynamic. But as you mentioned, the keys making sure
he's out there as much as you can.

Speaker 2 (39:34):

Speaker 1 (39:34):
We're gonna take a quick break when we get back.
I've got some pet peeves I.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Wanted to bring up. You got any pet peeves.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
I want you to think about them, and I'm going
to ask you if you've got something baseball related pet peeve,
it'll be your opportunity to get it off your chest
right after this.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
All right, I started this.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Podcast talking about decrees, and I said, you can no
longer say it's early the baseball season. It's time to
start worrying, time to get yourself in gear. If you're
one of the many, one of the eighteen players and
hitting under two hundred, or one of the nine teams
hitting under to twenty seven, this season starts running out,
not quickly, but slowly, and surely it will. I'm gonna

end it with some pet peeves. And it sounds like,
you know, pet peeves are trivial. So I'm not saying
these are world issues, Joe. But when announcers talk about
a Grand Slam home run, bothers me. A Grand Slam
is a home run that's redundant. You don't need to
say grand Slam home run. Okay, I mean, get it right.

You're in the business of getting the things right in
terms of wordsmithing. Just say grand slam another one. Revert back,
you know he reverted.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Back to his twenty nineteen form. Sorry, revert means you're
going back.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
It's redundant. Don't say revert back. What else I got here? Oh,
this is a big one for me. Joe and announcer
say this all the time. I'd love to know the
first person who brought this up. Lefties liked the ball
down and in. When a guy hits a home run
on a pitch down and in, inevitably, the announcer's gonna
say he threw it right where lefties like it.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
First of all, it's not true, people, It is not true.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Just as an example, and I've checked this year after year,
lefties on the ball down and in are hitting two
fifty nine. Right he's on the ball down and in
are hitting two eighty nine. And you've got to tell
me why it would even be plausible that a left
hander and not a right hander would like the ball
down and in. It doesn't make any sense just because
he's left handed. He's a good down and in hitter.

That makes no sense. And it's repeated all the time.
I'd love to find the first person who said that,
because man, it has spread like wildfire.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
That's all I was.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Joe, that was That was an oldie, but goodie back
in the day. Was a right handed pitcher throwing the ball,
a breaking ball down and interfastball down. And because at
that time, lefties were taught to pull the baseball period.
All the former managers coaches I've been around back in
the seventies and eighties, they wanted their lefties to hit
the hole. If there's somebody on first base and your

left ten hitter, obviously they want you to pull the ball.
They want the ball in the hole. Because at that
time it was not as much sophisticated positioning of the
second basement. He was more in double played depths. He
was up and in over towards the bag, so that
hole was gargaguan. So I think part of it is
that number two you hit on it first of all.
Redundancies my number one issue in life. People that repeat themselves.

My God, it drives me insane. Me and Uncle Etty,
my uncle Eddy, my dad's brother sat with him one time,
Avid reader. Uncle Letty and he reminded me, Joey. You
know what Brisally bothers me when Redundancy he was a
radio announce You had this great voice, and I said, God,
uncle Etty, that's me. So yes, Redundancy, I heard you
the first time. I don't need it being repeat it

to me. If I do, I'll say, pardon me and
missed that something like that. But to be done a
component that's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. So,
whether it's an announcer or conversational, somebody thought that they
said something funny, I didn't get it. They'll say it
again because I want to make sure I got that
funny thing. No, I heard it. It wasn't that funny.
Number two, the phrases I know and you know, I know,

I know, you know. I had a painting with the
Spy versus Spy and David Dave Mason only you know
and I know, yeah, from back in the day, and
so I wrote on I know and you know, and
it came un I put with apologies to Dave Mason.
Guys that are always saying I know. And then in

tenth grade World History, mister Sabolski, if you said you
know in any part of your sentence if you started
or included the phrase you know, he'd stop you, you
know what. So I really try to eradicate that from
my method of speech when I'm speaking to people. Those
that always say I know, I know, I don't like that,

and those that say you know, I always try to
eradicate that. So those maybe I'm not talking in a
baseball sense, but that's those are my pet piece. And
number three apathy. Apathy. You see, like we're talking about
things that need to be changed, and a lot of times,
you know, it takes there's a shift, a paradigm shift.
There's another kind of shift, a tectonic You have to

move some continents in order to get something done or moved.
You can't be apathetic, and I think that happens to
us way too often. You choose status quo over a
course of action. Because the course of action requires a lot,
requires a thought, a method. You have to put it
in a method of operation. How are we going to
get this done? You got to put it in play,

You got to follow up, You got to include so
many people. Apathy, so redundancy absolutely fries me. People that
say I know, and then they follow it up with
you know, and then eventually apathy drives me crazy.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
That's a great call and that you knows, by the way,
great call. And how about the guy who tells you
the story that he has told you fifteen times already
and you just you just you feel your body tends
up like, oh my goodness, we're going there again. And
it's typically a long story. And how do you basically

tell the guy, Dude, you've told me this before.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
I know where we're going here. Let's move on. It's awkward,
well almost, how many have many times.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Somebody says, hey, listen, I got a great story for you,
and you immediately you know I don't want to hear it.
I mean, you want to be Larry David in that moment. No,
it's okay, I you know, keep your story. But that
happens often too, where you people always think that what
they have to say is interesting for me. Here's my thing.
If I'm really having a good conversation with somebody and

we're engaged, and I really feel like this person's engaged
with me, I will give them everything. I will give
them everything I got. I mean, I'll I'll unload the
vault everything I think on a particular subject, I'll go, go, go,
because I think we have a connection or it's interesting.
And then there's the others that will ask a question,
pretend to be listening, and you know very well that

they're not. They're always distracted. They just can't stay in
tune with you. I will absolutely truncate that conversation. I'm out,
so I'm going to cut it off as quickly as
I possibly can. That's a read we all make. So
if we're engaged, I'm in, I'll give you all I got.
If I know that you're not engaged, I'm going to eject.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Two more for you. The word notoriety.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
You know, the original meaning of that word was you
were noticed because you did something of infamy. It was
not a good thing. Okay, and we've lost well, we're
so in love now with celebrity and being known that
it doesn't matter whether you're known for something good or bad.
People say, oh, he gained notoriety like it's a compliment. No,

let's use the word properly and want more for you.
In a baseball sense, Joe, when when people praise a
guy for running hard down the line, you'll actually go
to a replay and say, look at that hustle.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
He busted it out of the box.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Isn't that what you're supposed to do?

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Do you need to be patted on the back for
actually running hard?

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I think not, No, agreed. I mean those those are
the things to me that that's that's one on one,
that's the first meeting of spring training. Absolutely respect ninety.
That said, respect ninety, and if I have a team
that respects ninety, I'll take it. We're gonna make mistakes,
we're gonna stink, we're gonna lose games. We're gonna win games.
But if you play the game properly and hard. I mean,

I hate the jump sports on you. But I've been
watching the Knicks. I'm a Nick guy. I'm an Atlanta
Hawk fan. Proclaimed for I was a Saint Louis Hawks fan.
He eventually became Atlanta Hawks fan. But my backup team
has always been the Knicks in the seventies with Frasier
and Debuscher and reading that whole group. So I got
this thing, but I'm really enjoying it. I'm watching a

kind of a renaissance regarding physicality or caring for four
quarters as opposed to just the fourth quarter. I'm enjoying
the games I am. I'm that are started. There's times
that you know, the three pointer gets in the way
of execution and stuff. However, like if Jerry West had
an opportunity to shoot more three pointers or a three pointer,

he probably would have done it back in the day,
would have taken advantage of it. But I love I
love the effort. Man. Man, I'm I'm digging the effort.
It's it's wall to wall effort and that's all you
could ever possibly want. That is respect in ninety that
is running hard the first base, and I my teams
if I get that, I believe my team is going
to be competitive. Last point, when you're talking about an announcer,

I've seen some of the most routine plays just glorified
to the point like you got to be kidding me.
I think that we have to We've taught today's announcer
to go over the top somehow and become so emphatic
about a routine play being made that it kind of
annoys me a little bit. It's not unlike running hard

the first base, so it just report the game. I'd
like to just see more effort being put into explaining
the game. Better in different situations. The other day I
saw a good outfielder deals with the Yankees, the guy
they used to be Grisham. Grisham went to the I
think it was him in Baltimore, went to the outfield wall,
jumped and it was in Baltimore, believe so, yeah, you

could reach over the defense and grab it. But he
jumped up with his back to the wall. And when
you jump with your back to the wall, you can't jump.
The wall stops you. To me, that's a perfect opportunity
to describe something like that as a teaching, teachable moment
for a kid watching the game. So those are the
kind of things that I think get left unchecked when
a infielder throws on the run constantly. And I know

that some guys are really good at it these days,
and Longo was outstanding at it. But there's different things
I would like to see pointed out. If we want
kids to be involved in the game, I want the
kids to play the game right and when it comes
to mechanics, So pay more attention to stuff like that
as opposed to screaming because a guy doba at the
ball that he could have caught standing up.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
You know, Joe, I'm glad I got you wound up
with Pet Peeves.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
You know you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
You know, I do, I got you, I got you.
I'm feeling you.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Well, well you got something to take us home here, Joe, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
I do. And I don't know. I don't even know
if this applies or not. This always applies, and it does.
I saw this the other day. I was reading something
and it's from Steve Jobs, and I wow. I mean
we're talking about leadership being the empowerment as opposed to control.
You know, I would think I'm not knowing him. I
would have thought he would be more of a control

kind of a guy. Maybe he was, but this phrase
does not indicate that this is from him. It doesn't
make sense to hire smart people and then tell them
what to do. We hire smart people so they can
tell us what to do. Steve Jobs, that is wow,
that's it. That's perfect to me. That's how you do it.
But I think the chain of command breaks sometimes. I

mean the person at the top being hiring a smart person.
The smart person that he hires has to be smart
enough to know that the people that he's working with
then permit them to do their jobs. At some point
with the chain of command breaks somehow, where at some
point people forget that even though I've been permitted this
ability to have a kind of like this potential to

make impact her by being myself, I have to afford
that to the next guy and the next guy, whatever
that chain may be. So that I thought was brilliant
and I loved it.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
I love that too, and it reminds me of the
conversation I had yesterday with Steven Vote, who's doing a
great job by the way, as a good first time
manager with the Cleveland Guardians. Not a surprise anybody who
knows Voter, and you do I know, well, Joe saw
this coming and one of those players.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
You say, that guy is going to be a good manager.
And I hadn't noticed.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Watching the Guardians play and watching Voter in the dugout,
Joe that he was devoid of any kind of binders
or cards or information. And I asked him about that,
and he literally uses nothing in the course of a game.
You know, obviously a ton of prep work going in.
He's paying attention to the game. It's exactly what he
told me, he says, watching the game, I'm paying attention.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
And I also and this gets back to your.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Steve Jobs quote, he said, I trust my coaches there
on top of things, I'm trusting them to me with
such a mature, advanced approach for a guy who's still
a first time manager, he had never managed before. Just
the confidence I heard in his voice, the trust that
he knows the game and trust himself and trust his
coaches jumped out at me.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
In a day and age where guys are.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Looking at the charts on the dugout wall, you know
every two seconds, thick binders in the dugout, looking at tablets,
you name it.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
It's an old school approach.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
And I was just so impressed by listening to Voter
talk about that.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
But that also tells me that he has the support
of the front office because they're they're not trying to
force a bunch of stuff on him, because that would
normally happen a first year manager like that, he's going
to get normally inundated. Now, I wouldn't doubt that he
gets stuff before the game, that he studies. A Voter's
a really smart dude. But I love the idea that
you rely on your other people. Of course you do,

and that's the only way to do this. But it's
interesting that the front office there is permitting that method
to be employed. Now, i hate to be the fly
in the ointment, but I'm curious as to if they
don't do so well, if there's going to be a
shift from the methods incorporated from top to bottom. I'm
certain Voter is not going to want to change. But

those are the things I'm suspect about. So I love
it and I hope they stay there because Voter is sharp.
He's really sharp, he's funny, and yeah, he's got a
good coaching staff there. Use these guys. His job is
to manage the game and if he's comfortable presenting whatever
that is is moments to change a pitcher, how much
he's relying on his pitching coach, the win or two

may be slots for pinch hitting. The conversations he's gonna
have with players, that's managing. So he's not there to coach,
he's there to manage.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Well said, and I'm not surprised he's doing well.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
And obviously he's getting a lot of goodwill in the
vault with his players.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
By the way they've started.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Nothing like having the results pay off quickly as a
first time manager. So they're in a good place, good team,
and I like watching them play. Joe, we started talking
about hitting. They're a team that does not strike out.
They put the ball in play. They don't have a
ton of power.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
They have enough.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
But if you want to see good fundamental baseball played
on the basis on defense in the batter's box, Cleveland
will give that to you every night.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
So but everybody can do that time. Everybody can do that.
If I'm telling you that has to be or organizational philosophically,
he's got to start in the minor leagues. You got
a pound pound pound, you can't turn your head. You
got to stay with it. And you have to have teachers, man.
I mean, you have to have coaches that I'd always
go back to a Larry boll boas not going to
tolerate and you know sometimes he might rub you the

wrong way, but I love him for that. You can't.
You have to have coaches that know what they're talking about.
They don't tolerate the fact that no, they don't accept
you know, the the the consistently not doing something correct
or right. That's what you need in order to get
more contact better base running. You gotta you gotta rub it,
a little gotta a little edgy, little edgie is not

a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
I think every staff should have one or two guys
like that. And that's well said. As usual, there's a
lot of fun Joe. We'll do this again next time.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Nice job.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Thanks for staring me, brother, he got it.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.
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