June 7, 2024 • 51 mins
Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down the Celtics blow out win in game 1 over the Mavericks
They start with the massive game for Kristaps Porzingis, why he was the difference maker, and why “small ball” only worked for the Warriors. (3:30) They agree that this was a massive win for Celtics coach Joe Mazzula (8:30) and Colin predicts Jaylen Brown will win MVP of the series (12:30).
They dissect the difference between the two teams and why Dallas was reacting, while Boston was setting the tempo for the game (19:00). Colin breaks down why the Mavs are limited when Kyrie is off whereas Boston has five guys that could be a #2 on any team (26:00).
They credit Brad Stevens for taking a big swing and finding the right fit for Porzigis (31:30) and make their predictions for game 2 (39:00).
Finally, they give their thoughts on the Lakers targeting Danny Hurley as their next head coach (43:00) and why the Lakers need to take a big swing as they transition into their next phase as LeBron heads into his final years in the league (53:00)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. All right, we are really really close to
crowning an NBA champ. I like the Celtics, by the way,
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(00:23):
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(00:45):
Celtics in six baby.
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Speaker 1 (01:31):
I picked Boston in six. I thought they would win.
That was my draft Kings pick. I thought Jalen Brown
would play well and the Boston Celtics would win, although
Kyrie didn't offer much of anything, and I thought he'd
have a decent assist night. You know, my takeaway is
the small ball revolution in the NBA was really a
bunch of nonsense. It was Steph Curry and Draymond Green
(01:54):
who could play big. Everybody tried to duplicate it for
about four years, and then everybody's like Houston got kind
of close. Size matters, and Porzingis on both ends, altering shots.
On the defensive end, he was the initial Unicorn seven
to four dribble shoot. There's nothing you can do. It's
why Wemby will take over the league next year at
(02:16):
the All Star break. Is that this is a big
man's game. You know, in the NFL, you know Bill
parce Sells and the late great George Young was a
general manager for the Giants, and his whole theory was
went in doubt, just draft big guys like big beat small,
and in the NBA, length and size is so important.
(02:36):
And my takeaway, if that's the poor Zingis I get
in the series, Dallas is in trouble. You know. One
of the things I said, they have such a mature
offensive team, and they're all a little different. I mean,
Tatum tonight was more assist guy than he was score guy.
And I said, you know, Tatum can have a bad
(02:57):
night in this series and they could win by fifteen.
Kyriees an off tonight they get shelled, and that to
me is the difference in the series. And I said
that before I knew what I was getting with Porzingis,
but I thought, you know, the size of Porzingis the
matchup problem. You know, Dallas came into this thing, let's
feel it out, and very quickly it's like, yeah, we've
(03:19):
got We're gonna have to go back to the drawing
board on this, and then Porzingis sits for a while.
But I would start with that is that, you know,
if I got six guys who could all drop twenty man,
that's in a with the Apron. Now it's hard to
get a third star. The league doesn't want it anymore.
(03:39):
They want you to draft and develop. That's what the
whole thing. Legal pay a lot of money. They don't
want you going to cherry picking stars. Boston. This is
an absurdly deep offensive roster. I mean, you go look
at Porzingis last year. He was the guy for Washington.
You're like that for a terrible team. That's an All
Star level player. Derek k Wwhite's a five, Derek White's
(04:01):
a two on probably thirty percent of the teams in
the league. So I thought tonight was a little bit
of what I thought is that Dallas cannot withstand a
bad luker Kyrie Knight Boston, Boston. If you told me
a Tatum and Derek White didn't play well, Boston could
still win. And so I just start with that, is
(04:21):
that Porzingis' size, He was the initial unicorn. It's it's
a problem. There's not a lot you can do. It's
a big problem.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I thought this game was a brilliant showcase of what
makes chrisps Porzingis awesome and how he elevates the ceiling
of this Boston team. First of all, he's their only
legitimate rim protector. Like Al Horford's a really interesting player
and does a lot to help this team on both
ends of the floor. But chrisops Porzingis is just a
mountain of a man that is really difficult to finish
(04:50):
over at the rim. In addition to that, he brings
this there. There are a lot of guys that can
shoot in the NBA at the center position. There are
very very few guys at the center position that are
like lasers, like you just can't leave them open. And
one of my biggest reasons why I picked Boston is
Dallas's defense is very much geared up at the rim
(05:12):
as like a rim protection team with Gafford and Lively.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
That's why they were good against Minnesota.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Exactly you know they're big exactly, and they have some
good perimeter defenders, but they don't have a bunch of
good perimeter defenders, and so when you can really spread
them out and Lively and Gafford can't solve problems at
the rim as rim protectors. It just challenges the weak
points of Dallas's offense. And then the second piece of
it with porzingis that goes beyond the three point shooting.
(05:38):
One of the easiest ways to counter a ball screen
is to switch it, because the whole point of the
ball screen is you can get downhill because the guy
has to chase over the top of a screen. But
if you switch it, it shuts it down. But what
makes Porzingis such a valuable weapon is if you switch it,
you're putting your smaller player onto Porzingis and he can
just walk them down to fifteen feet from the basket
(05:58):
and they can toss it back to him and he
can go to work. He showed it all in that
game one. He was protecting the rim. He was hitting
trailing threes. In transition, he was hitting spot up threes
and helped defense situations. He was hitting picking pop threes,
he was beating switches, by posting up around the elbow.
It was everything that makes Porzingis great. And I'm glad
you pointed this out because everyone just accounted for Porzingis
(06:21):
as like available and healthy. But like, it's really hard
to go thirty something days without playing NBA basketball and
then to walk in the NBA Finals, Like, I don't think,
I don't think, we're like. It just was so impressive
the way he immediately looked comfortable and immediately started thriving.
(06:41):
But a big part of that is he is the guy.
He's the key that solves all of the issues that
Boston could have had against this Dallas defense. He unlocks
it all. Was I was just completely blown away by him.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah. The other thing that jumped out the big winner
tonight too is Joe Mizzoula. So last year he looked
a little over his skis, a little bit over his skis.
You know, the Spolstra matchup, You're like, oh boy, this
is a mismatch. So they strengthen his staff, Brad Stevens,
you know, enhances the staff. Not only did he really
(07:15):
target Dallas's liabilities defensively, like he went right after him.
That's that's game prep. But when Dallas made a surge
in the third quarter, he calls a time out and
Boston goes on like a fourteen to nothing run. That's coaching,
that's Steve Kerr stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
The Warriors come out of halftime and there was going
these crazy runs. That's that's where coaching matters. Spolstra late
curer out side of halftime, and so I thought from
the opening game plan to that time out, re energizing
his team, making a couple of changes, and just putting
it away because you start watching Luca hit a couple
Boston had several really ugly, sloppy possessions. What you do
(07:52):
when you get ahead by twenty five, you just mail
in stuff. You know, you just don't. You can't stay
engaged for two hours and forty five minut You just
naturally get sloppy. Boston did. Luca gets them back in it,
and then all of a sudden, the timeout, and I thought, okay,
that's the difference this year. I don't think Missoula calls
a timeout. Last year they go on a fourteen to
nothing run. First of all, that did n Ab Porzingis
(08:15):
and Drew Holly. They're a better offensive team. Everybody feels
just Jalen Brown just gets a little better every year.
But that's a thing like that was one of the
things I worried about this with Boston. I said, I
don't know if Missoula is a good coach. I think
he's confident in the East. Is he a good coach tonight?
I was like, that's good coaching. That's noticeably good coaching
because Jason Kid's a much better coach than four years ago.
(08:38):
So that jumped out to me. You can respond to
that if you want.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, So I thought the time out, like, that's an
important part of coaching that doesn't really get talked about much.
We talked so much about personality management and tactical approach
and all these different things, but like, actually managing basketball
games is one of the most important parts of the
coach's responsibility. You have to feel when things are teetering
and time when you're going to kind of step in
(09:03):
and try to right the ship, so to speak. And
Boston just had a really ugly offensive stretch there that
looked very similar to a lot of the nasty offensive
stretches we've seen from Boston over the course of the season.
They were settling for quick shots, quick threes, isolation threes.
Immediately out of that time out, it was abundantly clear
that Missoula was harping on the fact that they needed
(09:23):
to get back to driving and kicking, because when they
beat someone off the dribble and they passed two or
three times and it's a wide open catch and shoot three,
it's a really good shot with really high value. When
they run up the floor in transition, and now Horford
just throws a transition wing three off the side of
the rim, like without running any sort of offense, that's
when they can get carried away. And then I'm glad
(09:44):
you mentioned the game plan because I thought Missoula's game
plan was brilliant to start this game. One of the
specific things he did was instead of putting Horford and
Porzingis on to Gafford and Lively their centers, he put
him on to PJ. Washington and Derek Jones Junior. So
what that does, which is really fascinating it. By the way,
this is a shout out to Jason Tatum, because Tatum's
defensive versatility is what gives him the ability to guard centers.
(10:07):
He's big enough to guard a center underneath the basket.
But because of that, Derek Jones Junior and PJ Washington
when they're setting screens for Luca and rolling to the basket,
they're not the same type of vertical spacers that can
catch lobs like Daniel Gafford and Derek Lively when they
pop to the three point line. They aren't very good
above the break three point shooters, and so I thought
(10:28):
it really threw Dallas for a loop offensively that they
didn't know how to attack, and then to add another
layer to it, the spacing gets all janky because even
when Luca and PJ are when Pj's rolling or Derek
Jones is rolling or popping when Luca's getting downhill, now
Tatum and Lively and Gafford and all those guys, they're
just like congregated around the basket, just messing up the spacing.
(10:48):
I thought it was a really smart defensive game plan
from Mizula. I thought he managed the game really well.
I thought that was a really good call out. What'd
you think of Jalen Brown tonight? I thought he did
an amazing job.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I picked him to be m VP of the series.
So I feel like Jalen Brown more than any Celtic.
I know exactly what I get. I get tremendous athleticism,
defensive pressure. He's always engaged, plays with a little chip
like like he finished at the rim. He gives you
about one of those a game, and I feel like
every year his offensive game gets a little more refined.
(11:22):
I don't think he's you know, maybe aesthetically as naturally
as fluid as a Tatum uh, maybe not as dynamic
as aunt uh doesn't have just the offensive uh skill
level of a Luca. But what he is is he's
just a really high IQ, intense, increasingly refined, energized player.
(11:45):
He's strong, He's got like a d Wade body. He's strong,
He'll he'll lean on you on the defensive end. I
think Jalen's a classic sort of kind of quiet you know,
he doesn't get he doesn't get chatty. He'll always be
underappreciated because he doesn't. He doesn't ask to be stared at.
(12:07):
He does a lot of little stuff. He's really good
with his body, really good at constantly like he knows
he's in great shape. He knows he can wear you down,
like Jalen in a seven game series is the kind
of player that could get stronger. He like d Wade
was like that. D Wade liked it. D Wade would
be on the floor constantly and You're like, just didn't
affect him. It's almost like a football player in basketball,
(12:29):
like he liked the physicality a pitcher that's better sixth
thenning on. And when I watch Jalen Brown, I just
feel like I get the exact same guy, maybe in
the best shape of the top three percent of the
league in shape, physicality, and you know something, that's what
I didn't get from because I want to pivot it
to this. So I write notes during games, a handful
(12:50):
of notes, and one of the notes I put in
the first half is where are the assists? So when
Kyrie's not hitting, okay, I need assists. Who gotta give.
I felt like tonight was like Lucas Turn Kyrie's turn
Lucas Turn. I thought there were I thought the crowd
affected Kyrie. He got a little into his head. I
(13:10):
didn't feel if he wasn't hitting his shots, he wasn't
doing anything else Whereas when Jalen Brown's not hitting his shots,
I still feel like get a complete player, a completely engaged,
energized player. When you're a great offensive player and you're
not hitting shots. I helped us feel like offensive players
can get a little moody, you know, they can just
kind of get out into their feels. I never feel
(13:32):
that with Jalen, so I thought Kyrie and I just
didn't get forget the shooting he was off. I didn't
feel like got enough energy from Kyrie. That was my take.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
No, one hundred percent agree. I thought in the second
half he was missing shots, but in the first half,
like he was taking bad shots, like he was kind
of forcing the issue. He had some bad misses in
that first half. He shot one off the side of
the backboard, like he got blocked, Like, yeah, he got
blocked in at ball screen, Like it was just he
was just kind of forcing the issue. I agree with you.
I think some of the situation with the booze and
(14:01):
just the intensity of the moment got to him a
little bit. Yeah, And you're right, like that's the thing,
like one of the to bring it back to Jalen
Brown like that, to me is what's fascinating about Boston's
roster build. You don't have Derek White, but before the
halfway point of twenty twenty two, you don't have Drew
Holliday before this year, you don't have Porzingis. Suddenly you
need him to be like an offensive engine next to Tatum,
(14:23):
and that'll shine a light on some of his shortcomings
as as an offensive initiator. But because there's so much
offensive talent on this team, he can be kind of
like pointed and shot in a very specific area where
he's great, and like I thought, he he ripped Luca
in the back court twice at in the first half
just with ball pressure. I thought in general, just him
(14:44):
being a pest on Luca was just a huge pain.
He was in help side, making blocks at the rim. Defensively,
he's just he's the one guy on the roster that's
actually like a true top tier athlete, like Tatum's really big, yes,
and he's also like a good athlete, but like Jylen
Brown is like an actual top tier NBA athlete. So
(15:04):
when he's allowed to focus on just being a wrecking ball,
it allows him to kind of channel his strengths in
his best areas and he can have success. Whereas with Kyrie,
they desperately need him to be great offensively in order
for him to bring the level of impact that they
need from him. And as far as the Assisco that
you brought up, I do think a big part of
that was Boston's defensive game plan. You could tell the
(15:28):
fact that they were not allowed to they were not
able to bring Lively and Gafford into ball screens as easily.
You can tell that kind of through them for a loop.
And I'm gonna dig into the film and try to
find some answers, but I'm really curious to see how
Dallas tries to counter that over the course of the series,
because You're right, it did turn into kind of your turn,
my turn type of basketball with Luca and Kyrie, and
(15:49):
they're gonna have to find a way to loosen that up.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah. I remember seeing Jalen Brown at Cal when the
PAC twelve was a conference, and my takeaway was cut
he you know PAC twelve, he's like an athlete. You're like,
this guy is he playing the football team? Like this
guy is just cut?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
And he was.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It was he felt a little stiff, and then Brad Stevens,
you know, the college coach, gets him and he just
gets more fluid and more fluid, And same thing with Missoula.
I just feel like there's certain guys in the NBA
that have made themselves into great players. I don't think
coming out of col I would have thought he would
(16:27):
be this good offensively. He just makes himself like I
don't know the numbers in front of me. I feel
like the first several years he was just like two
and a half three points better every year, and he
just you can see the work he put into it.
You can see it from his you know, his cardio,
his his build. Yeah, and you know a little bit
like d Wade. He's not a naturally brilliant shooter, but
(16:49):
he ends up with twenty five a lot and he's
playing on you know what I mean. Some guys just
they just end up they the points, like Jalen's points
are memorable. If he has twenty seven, you remember the points.
They're big points, they're points at the rim, they're steals
and dunks. Something else that jumped out to me that
I wrote down is that, you know, over the course
of a series, obviously Dallas will come out and have
(17:14):
huge energy in the first quarter of Game two. They're
going to come out with their hair on fire, and
Dallas is going to have to match that. But there
are some things like where does Lively fit in this series? Like,
I think Boston players will all take turns fitting wonderfully
in this series. They'll all get their shots. Tatum will
score more points in Game two. But there are a
(17:34):
couple of Dallas players that I think. You don't want
to play a series and you're reacting to Boston. You
want to make Boston try to react to you. And
I watched a couple of times to night. I scribbled
down like Dallas is just reacting, but Boston's setting the tempo,
Boston's doing what they want. Boston is dictating all the terms.
(17:56):
Dallas is just kind of reacting counter punching. And if
Kyrie's not hitting shots when you're counterpunching, you're gonna get
blown out. So there are some matchups in this series.
I'm like, Okay, Luca and Kyrie both have to play well.
I don't know what is Lively gonna be an offensive player? Like,
you know Lively can be a great rim defender. Well,
(18:16):
if Porzingis is gonna go to the perimeter and Horford's
on the bench much of the series, what is Lively's role, Like,
what is he gonna do? So I in my notes,
I just kept feeling like Dallas just reacted all night.
Only in that brief third quarter run when the when
the Salticus got sloppy, did I feel like Dallas sees
control and it was just sort of Luca.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Well, to put it simply, the reason why they're in
that reacting position is because Boston's like core set game
plan is clearly better than Dallas's kind of core set
game plan. Like they're the natural way they wanted to
come into this series playing heavily favors Boston, and so
Dallas is gonna have to figure out a way to
adjust now. I actually think Lively is a super valuable
(19:02):
piece for them on the defensive end because of his
ability to switch out onto the perimeter and guard a
little bit. He picked up some fouls in the second
half where he's just basic fundamental stuff. He didn't keep
his hands vertical, he kept like kind of coming down
on the player that was attacking him. But on the
offensive end, you're right, one of the things that gets
tricky is if he can come set a ball screen
and then roll hard to the rim and catch lobs,
(19:24):
then he's a real threat. But if you can't bring
him into a ball screen, because he's got Tatum on
him and they're switching, then suddenly he's just standing in
the dunker spot, and they're gonna have to find some
ways to counter that. I think an easy one is
to just incorporate him in the action. There's a way,
There are ways to run ball screens with three players,
So I would have Lively set the screen, and then
as soon as they switch, I would just backscreen for
(19:46):
Lively and try to see if you can get him
cutting downhill. That way, they're gonna have to find ways
to get those bigs moving towards the rim, because if
they're just standing there in the dunker spot, they're not
getting enough offensive rebounds, they're not cleaning up enough lobs
underneath the basket, they're not getting enough offensively out of
that position. You saw a little bit in this game too,
where they just went to Kliba because Kleiba can shoot,
(20:08):
and so they go to kleebet the five, so at
least they can space the floor a little bit. Maybe
that's the direction this goes. If they can't figure out,
if they can't figure out how to use Lively in Gafford,
then they go to and they have to lean into
Cleba and play small. That would be a really big
issue because now you're taking one of the foundational parts
of Dallas's offense, which is their rim running bigs and
their lob game, and you're just sidelining it, right, So
(20:29):
it's tricky, But again, this is what Boston does to you.
This is why it's such a tough matchup, and like
it it's super fascinating to me because this has been
kind of the theme of this playoff run, is like
how different teams match up with each other, and Boston
is uniquely equipped because of Tatum to neutralize the lob game,
and then on the other end of the floor, they're
uniquely equipped to attack the weak points in Dallas's offense.
(20:52):
How many a defense? How many times tonight did you
see Tata or like Luca end up on a switch
on one of the guys and then the boss player
would just drive right around Luca and then bring another
guy in and pass pass wide open three. Like, yeah,
that's an issue. Like in the last round, when Luca
would get switched on to Anthony Edwards, he'd have an
easy job, like just play up on him because if
(21:13):
he beats you off the dribble. No one's scared to
go bear, so Lively and Gafford are just waiting underneath
the basket to help you on the backside. That's not
how it's gonna be in this series. Luca's gonna have
to contain the basketball. It's gonna be a challenge for him.
And so I'm really really fascinated to see how the
matchups kind of shake out. I will say this and
I want to kick it to you just kind of
moving forward in the series. I there were a lot
(21:36):
of things that went Boston's way tonight. They came out
hair on fire and shot extremely well. A Dallas shot
very poortally. Luca and Kyrie both really struggled for the
most part. I thought Luca put up his points, but
he always does, but like he I thought, in the
key portions of the game, he struggled. And so there
is a very good chance that in Game two Boston
(21:58):
doesn't shoot as well and that Dallas shoots better. Kyrie
Luca played better. So I think Game two is gonna
be a really close game, and I think it's gonna
come down to crunch time, and I think it's gonna
be one of the first pivot points of this series.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
M I think this is gonna be an offensive series.
I just you know, again, the NBA would prefer you
don't have four or five veteran offensive pieces. Like think
(22:30):
about this, Tatum's a one, Porzingis on bad teams is
a one or a one. A Jalen Brown on lesser
teams is a one or one. A Derek White's a
two on lesser teams. And if you look at Drew
Holliday when Chris Middleton was hurt, he was a two
last year for Milwaukee. Okay, that's like five guys that
(22:52):
could be a two or a one. We may not
see a lot of that, even even if on a
Denver Gordon's really any defensive guy who can score, but
you don't view him in that role. I like KCP,
He's not a two on any team in the league,
even the bad teams. So you get to a point
with Boston where I'm like the league is trying to
avoid that. They like the OKC model, get draft picks,
(23:15):
bill develop, you know, just that's what the NBA wants.
They want. They don't want you to go and cherry
pick people. I think the NBA loves the Knicks. You know,
if you have to move a Randall to get a
Paul George whatever, that's fine, but they don't want this
accumulation of like five guys. Like I watched tonight and
I thought, you know, Dallas played old Clippers, figured it
(23:38):
out quickly young OKC. I didn't pick them to win
good series. But Oklahoma City's got a little Boston in it.
They can spread you out. You know. They're difficult young,
not as refined Boston. And I start watching this tonight
and I'm like, you gotta kind of pick your poison
with Boston. You're really like, you know, I kept saying
(24:02):
Indiana is so terrible defensively, Yeah, but Boston's really good offensively,
and you're just like, come on, you got five guys
that could be a two. I mean, I don't think
most if you're a casual people don't understand how good
Derek White is. He's like all NBA defense. He's long,
he's smart, he can shoot, you know, his plus minus
(24:23):
his net rating. It's like I think Boston, I think
Dallas is gonna have their hands full. I just think
you gotta just a little bit when you play Boston,
you gotta cross your fingers a little. I mean tonight
Tatum wasn't scoring a lot, Porzingis was unstoppable. I just
I don't want to overreact, but god, when's the last
(24:45):
I mean, Boston has just rolled through the league since October?
I mean, at some point, how many times have I
seen them win by like twenty two this year? I
just I don't overreact, but it's like when they're Poorzingis
is hitting, Okay, I'm kind of screwed a little bit.
There's matchup issues everywhere.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
No, You're you're absolutely hanging on and hoping that one
they miss shots and two they play stupid basketball, Like
you're you're actively hoping that they do that, because I
think we always they.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Did for about three minutes in the third court they did.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
To start the third quarter, and then we got to
the time out, and like to that point, like that's
what's what's what's kind of fascinating, Like I don't think
anybody disagrees that Boston's ceiling is higher than everybody's. It
was always just about their kind of like maturity and
their ability to consistently reach that ceiling. What you brought up,
I think is really fascinating and I've been thinking about
this a lot over the course of the last week.
(25:43):
Anybody could have traded for Porzingis anybody could have traded
for Drew Holliday, Boston Kyrie or Kyrie. Boston already had
the most talented roster in the league last year. That
was something I said consistently. Now they didn't live up
to that potential, but like they were all well, Derek White,
Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Al Horford and Marcus Smart that
(26:04):
was already, in my opinion, an incredible top five. And
Brad Stevens looked at this and was like, Nope, not enough.
And what's crazy here is like if they end up
hoisting the trophy, which you and I both believe they will,
like I think a good portion of the credit has
to go to Brad Stevens for basically being like, I've
got a couple of flawed stars. These guys need a
ton of support. Obviously, we're about to head into the CBA,
(26:28):
We're gonna have all these new restrictions. Let's put it
all in this year and let's see if we can
make a little bit of a run and like that,
like that's the thing, Like Boston outbid everybody for Christops.
They outbid everybody for Drew Holliday. And I can't help
but think about your kind of overarching philosophy, which is
like teams that take risks, you know, they're the ones
that usually end up at the end of the day
(26:49):
with the trophy.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah. I mean, if you can go to the trade deadline,
the Kyrie move, those are big swings. Those are big
swings by Dallas. And you know poor zing Is. You know,
basketball is really interesting because it's are the players come
into the league much younger and generally much less mature,
(27:14):
and so if you get into the wrong team or
the wrong spot, you can get kind of a bad reputation.
Porzingiss reputation. I mean, his game's different now, he's much
more perimeter than early when he would pound the ball,
and so Porzingi's got a reputation like bad guy, bad
locker room guy.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
All right.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Then he goes to Washington and he gets a fresh start.
He moves outside, shoots more or less pounding the ball.
The league becomes more analytic. People can show him real
data and you're like, oh, okay, that's a little bit.
That's a little bit of the unicorn and then Boston
Brad Stevens seizes on it and says, you know what,
with our really good room, he didn't have to be
(27:54):
a one or two here he can on nights. And
so I think sometimes in the NFL, if if you
come into the league at twenty three and by twenty
six you're kind of an idiot, like you just can't
figure stuff out, I'm kind of done with you. You
gotta be careful. In the NBA, basketball is a very
individual culture AAU. It's sort of about getting yours, showing off,
(28:20):
letting the world see how much talent you have. If
you get a bad opening locker room Washington for twenty years,
you get labeled. You know, bad guy doesn't compete, you know,
because an NBA locker room is so small, a really
talented guy that's distracted can really ruin a locker room. Hell,
(28:43):
in baseball, if you're a schmuck and you go to
the bullpen, you don't even said that dugout Like in football,
you splinter off at halftime or at practice with your unit.
So I think, like Kyrie's reputation earned Dallas took a
shot ad when he was in New Orleans. It was
like Dad bod Lazy doesn't want to play hurt. I
(29:05):
thought he was sensational the last year and a half.
So these NBA guys, if you just make a judgment
based on their first like three years, you can leave
a lot of stuff on the editing room floor. Like
you can't watch Porzingis tonight. It's almost a revelation. It's like, Oh,
this is exactly what he was. This is what people
(29:26):
thought he would be. He was the pre wemb pre
home groun. This is what people said. You can't stop him.
So you know, and I guess back to your initial
point is that these two gms took big swings on guys,
and Porzingis was thought of as a bad locker room
guy that was his rep four years in the league. Well,
he has an effected this locker room at all. I mean,
(29:48):
you can see the way the players, the Celtic players
treat him. They like him, you know what I mean,
And it's just part of their kind of unified effort.
So basketball football cultures are very different. There's a a
lot of things about the football culture I like, but
you have to be very you can't be as judgmental
in basketball. You're getting nineteen year old kids. Jesus. The
difference between nineteen and twenty four is a human being.
(30:11):
You know, once you get into your forty one to
forty seven, is the same guy nineteen to twenty three.
I got a lot of kids. It's a different human
And Porzingis now is like team guy, I mean, engaged
defensively guy cheering on teammate guy. So I you know,
Brad Stevens saw that, and Brad knows it because he
(30:32):
was a college coach. He sees these guys mature. He
knows they change my take.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, there's quite literally been zero complaint about Porzingis and
the entire exerience in Boston. You know, it's funny. I
went out with Grant and Paulsen in DC on radio
earlier today and he asked me just some questions about
the Wizards going into the offseason, and one of the
big things I kind of feel passionately about is this
specific thing you're bringing up, which is I feel like
(30:58):
a lot of people are out on Jordan Pool right
now and it's like he's young, and then he won
a championship when he was really young, so of course
it went to his head. He got a little bit
off the rails over the following couple of seasons, I
have a feeling that Jordan Poole when he's twenty seven
is going to be a really good basketball player, you
know what I mean? And to your point, like it's
(31:18):
like it's like before I did this for a living,
I worked in real estate and I was on the
investment side, and you just completely change the way you
look at homes more towards what they could be rather
than what they are. And I think that's a really
interesting kind of like approach for gms, especially in these
big market teams that are typically operating above the cap,
(31:40):
because from there you're not going to get a top
seven draft pick, right, So, like how do you find
talent beyond that? And like a big one is look
for guys who were in the lottery that failed at
previous destinations because they were in the lottery because they
were viewed to have exceptional base line talent, right, but
(32:01):
they failed in those original destinations because of any number
of factors, immaturity, circumstance, leadership, you know, anything, right, even
an injury potentially right. And that's the thing is like
those are the guys that you can that you can
kind of find real opportunity. I feel like Ruy Hachamurro
is that for the Lakers. A guy kind of in
a bad organization in Washington, and then they find a
(32:22):
role for him in LA and suddenly it works. Like
these PJ Washington playing for a terrible Charlotte Hornets team.
It's like, let's bring you into this winning circumstance and
give you a job that is more suited to your talents,
and let's see what you can do. And so in general,
I think it's really fascinating how these above the cap
teams have to kind of look for the investment type
(32:45):
of NBA players that kind of more fit within their
specific scheme.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Well, think about a lot of the guys that come
in and they're mature. A lot of them have stayed
in Villanova guys okay, because they're three star guys, so
they stay in college there, hard coached. They come in
more mature. But a lot of the AAU stars and
the G League guys that their NBA coach is their
first real grown up Like, so like the kid that
Houston got, is it Jalen Green? Like when you first
(33:13):
watched him, you're like, he got a lot of talent,
but he's all over the place. He didn't want to
play basketball. And then in year two you're like, oh
he's being coached. Yeah, like he may he's off ball,
he can actually help the team. Well, what would he know?
You know, It's like you just you don't know what
you don't know. So I think a lot of when
you watch these teams that do the little things, well,
(33:36):
the Knicks, they have a lot of guys that played
a lot of college basketball, so they're just like they're
twenty seven going on thirty four. And then you get
these guys that are super talented, lottery picks one and
done at twenty seven, they're twenty three, Like they just
they just haven't been coached. They haven't had an Izzo,
they haven't had a Jay Wright. And that I always
said that's the value of college coaching is, and now
(33:58):
there's nil. There's value in saying I want to stay
for a sophomore year of college in a really good program.
Somebody is really on my ass and I can make
decent money here. I can make it at the G
League and you're part of something. If you're part of
Villanova or Kansas, you're really part of a community, You're
part of a campus, and that's that's a real that's
(34:18):
I mean, that's different people, different races, religions, different classes.
It's it's it's hard, it's challenging, and so I think
I just think the NBA is different. You have to
be careful about labeling and judging. Now there are players
like D'Angelo Russell. This is what he is, right like
it's been established. Okay, I'm done trying to figure out
the Rubik's cube, like this is what he is. But
(34:41):
I think porzingis is God. You know, it was almost
tonight watching him play like he had that kind of
that devilish Grinnich smile. You guys aren't stopping me. I'm good. Yeah,
and it's uh, you know, that's basketball. You could do it.
There are times when when when you get at hot
and you just and you have size advantages and matchup advantages.
(35:04):
I think Game two will be really close and really
really competitive. I think it will be uh. I think
Dallas will come out and play much better. I mean,
if I'm Dallas, my takeaway is we got to get physical.
We got to put bodies on people. We have got
to and I think the officials tend to I don't
think they favor teams. I think they they favor even
They're gonna give Dallas some physicality in Game two. They're
(35:27):
going to allow Dallas to be physical. The officials will
do that. Now, by the way, Boston will be allowed
to be physical too, will they take advantage of it,
But I think Boston. I think my take is if
I was a coach of Dallas, I'd be like, guys,
we've got to win possessions on the defensive end. We
may not match up offensively. We have to win the
defensive end. We have to we have to move the
(35:48):
ball better. We had very few assists early. We've got
to win the defensive end. I think Game two will
be a different It looks like a different basketball game.
That's my guess.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
No, I one hundred percent agree that. And you bring
that physicality, you take an early lead, You add fresh
sure to Boston, which changes the free feeling that you
have when you shoot the basketball. Maybe they have a
lesser shooting night, and you give yourself a chance to win.
(36:15):
Before we get out of here, I wanted to ask
you about Dan Hurly, so I obviously, as someone who
roots for the Lakers. I actually was very excited about
this today. But what was your kind of takeaway from
that that big reveal this morning?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Well, I saw it like four thirty five, a Woje
palm starting my day. And my take was, I said,
you know, because I founded the volume, so I tend
to look at things from a managerial position. And so
I said, if I was Rob Polinka and Genie Buss,
and Minnesota's got Ant and Okac's got Chet and Sga,
(36:51):
and then there's Lucas twenty five, and you start looking
up and down, and you know, Jokic is still nice prime,
Boston's two guys in their prime, and you start looking
around and San Antonio and Houston this year I think
will pop, like it'll be different teams, and you start
looking around and thinking, listen, man, we got to start
drafting and developing here, like this is what the league.
(37:13):
If you start looking at the second apron, what the
CBA is in the NBA, We're not going to get
a third huge star here with Lebron and Ad. We're
just this is not gonna work. So we have got
to draft and develop. And so you can't watch these
playoffs and not come to this conclusion the NBA has
pivoted to young stars Katie Lebron's staff. It's over like that.
(37:36):
They're not running the league anymore. Like Tatum now is
one of the veterans. And I think my takeaway is, Okay,
who does that, Who drafts, who builds culture, who's tough?
It wasn't a pivot away from Lebron. It was a
pivot toward the league. The league now is a draft
and developed league. That's these players are going to get rich.
(37:57):
But the league watched what Golden State did with KD
and they didn't like it, and the owners didn't like it,
and the league didn't like it. I can remember talking
to fans of the NBA being like, I hate this.
This is just not fair. And I think the league
heard that Adam Silver did not like that move at all.
And so I think the Lakers, Rob and Jeanie look
at this and think there's a change. We don't want
(38:20):
to be the Clippers old, dysfunctional. You know one guy,
Terrence Man that feels like he's young. You know, it's
a lot of names and great on the marque. It's
a great movie poster. It's not really a championship team.
And I think the Lakers don't feel like it, and
you know, I just I that's my takeaways. They are
(38:43):
looking at this and stepping back and going we like
JJ Reddick, but he has no history in drafting and developing.
This is not what he does. By the way, there's
Connecticut players in this draft, you know, there's just and
also early the last three years he's recruited almost probably
every good domestic player in the first round he's recruited
or seen them. So I think they're gonna be active.
(39:04):
And that was my take is that you can't watch
these playoffs and not see this gigantic pivot. You know,
It's like when Manning, Brady and big Ben got old
and you're watching Mahomes and Lamar and Allen. It's like,
oh shit, we got ourselves a new league. As soon
as soon as Tom leaves, we got a new league.
It's a brand new league. And that that was my
(39:25):
take on it.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yours, Yeah, So I I there were three reasons that
I was excited about it. The first one is exactly
what you said, the draft and development piece. I think
a big part of it too, like you mentioned, with
the cat rules changing, it's gonna be really difficult to
have more than two stars.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And it's almost impossible, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Exactly, And I think he specifically is gonna excel at
finding role players that are great connective pieces next to stars,
because the Laker brand is gonna continue to bring in
star talent in one way or another, whether it's to
the trademarket, whether it's through free agency. They're gonna get stars,
but because of the new rules, you're not going to
get three of them, so you're probably gonna have to
and it's going to be about working on the margins
(40:05):
and finding discounted valuable players, which I think is something
that he's going to excel with the second two piece.
Two pieces of it. One, he's an offensive genius, like
literally an offensive genius. And specifically, what I find fascinating
is he was capable of generating space for his offense
(40:25):
with multiple non shooters on the floor, which I think
is super fascinating on a Laker team that has an
Anthony Davis that can struggle to shoot the basketball, that
is going to probably play a Jared Vanderbilt that struggles
to shoot the basketball. And he's he has all these
interesting concepts, like he's really good at disguising his sets.
He's a big believer in weak side action, which basically
(40:47):
occupies help defenders by making them think about what they're
doing on the weak side while your stars are running
ball screens on the other side. He's super creative as
a tactician, especially on the offense the end of the floor,
which I think is going to be work wonders for
a Laker offense that can get stagnant sometimes. And then
the third piece of it is he's just a psycho.
(41:09):
He's a psycho, he's competitive, and then I think he's
gonna bring enough cachet because that's the fear, right, Like,
if you're gonna play Devil's advocate, you're like David Blatt
comes over championship coach from Europe, Lebron scoffs at him
and says, I want the assistant instead, right, So like
that's what you're scared of. But I actually think Lebron
(41:29):
has a lot more respect for Dan Hurley. I mean,
especially seeing as he's been kind of like watching as
a fan as he's had his success over the last
couple of years. I think he'll have some success there.
And then I complained that you NonStop this season about
Darvin Ham not holding players accountable and then becoming and
then becoming a team that was really sloppy for stretches
(41:51):
because they didn't value individual possessions. They weren't good at
attention to detail. That will not fly under Dan Hurley.
He will be on those guys and I think it'll
help a lot well.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I try to defend Darvin Ham, but he is a
defensive minded coach. And you see this in the NFL.
Offense comes easier. The attention to detail from offensive coaches
is better. So like when you watch offensive like Steve Kerr,
like his he if you ever when they Mike Steve Kerr,
he picks on stuff, stuff up so quickly, like like
(42:25):
I'm not seeing it, I'm watching the game. He is
a possession to possession coach. Steve Kerr, he watches every
little mistake. Mark Jackson defensive coach. I always viewed him
as more of a defensive coach. The offense could never
quite get in sync. Now, Mark did a good job
on the defensive end, but I thought with Darvin Ham
is he could get players. I thought Anthony Davis was
(42:46):
absolutely sensational defensively this year. I thought he was the
defensive player of the Year, but his offense was inconsistent.
Darvin's not going to help you a lot there. Darvin
was a very limited offensive player. And so I think,
just like in football, I think coaches have a vote
goals good with Bigs, Dan Tony's doesn't like Biggs. Coaches
all have strengths and weaknesses, and Darvin, I thought, was
(43:07):
not as detailed. Offensively allowed sloppy possessions. What didn't hold
players offensively accountable. They'll make it up on the defensive end.
That's not the league. That's just not the league. You
you're gonna you're gonna shoot your way. I mean, you
start looking at teams. Dallas was a better offensive team
than Minnesota. They won the series. You know it's it's
(43:29):
you know, it is as as hard as New York played.
You start look Indiana. It was more consistently a higher tempo, healthier,
better offensive team with them offense is winning these series.
Like effort's great, but like that's that's why Boston's favored
in this series. They got five six guys that can
score twenty. And so I think Darvin doesn't necessarily fit
(43:49):
what's happening to the league, which is increasingly skilled, increasingly
unstoppable for players of size, And I think Hurley's good
with that. He understands what the what the sport is becoming.
That you play hard, play with urgency, get the details
down offensively, don't give up sloppy possessions. Lakers would have
(44:11):
bad quarters offensively, like just I mean, there are times
if you didn't have Lebron on the floor and Austin
Reeves was in foul trouble, you were done. They just
were a bad offensive unit. So yeah, I think to
your point is I tried to defend Darvin Ham, but
I'm seeing some of the same stuff in the NFL
where the skill now in the NBA is just too
(44:31):
damn good. It's just too good. There's just if you're
not equipped offensively, possession after possession, you'll just get run
out of this sport really quickly.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Oh for sure. Like look at this particular matchup here
for Dallas versus Boston, Like a big part you mentioned
it at the start of the show, like the stagnation,
the lack of the ball in player movement, the Luca
Kyrie kind of your turn, my turns bad. That is,
it works for Dallas because Lucas so damn good, and
(45:01):
he might be the best player in the world. But
like I do believe there's a reason why the league
has shifted towards more ball in player movement. That's why
we're seeing teams like Denver succeed in Golden State succeed
Golden State kind of really revolutionized five out offense and
brought it to where it is today. And like, I
just think, I think Dan Hurley is in touch with
what works in modern basketball, which I think is going
(45:22):
to help a ton. I think he's I think he
understands the complications of the transition to the NBA, which
I think will be his probably his biggest challenge. But
he knows he's gonna have to talk differently to professional
athletes than to college players. He knows that there's going
to be more, you know, media pressure with that LA
job on a day to day basis. Like we talked
(45:43):
about Darvin Ham all the time this season because it's
like that's if you were ranking high like high high
pressure coaching jobs in America, Lakers head coach is pretty
high up on that list, especially when Lebron James is
on the roster. And so I think he's up for it.
I think he can do it. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah. One of the things I've talked about today kind
of ad nauseum on my show, as I said, the
Lakers had twenty years in the second biggest city in
the country with no NFL teams in the NFL eventually
gobbles up every city. And now you've got Harbaugh, Herbert
and McVeigh and Stafford and the second richest owner in
Stan Cronk, and the Dodgers look like they're one hundred
and ten win team. Here comes usc to the big ten.
(46:19):
Balmer's got a new arena. The key in this is
are you okay now? Being the third biggest story in
La fourth on some weekends like because this city has
got star coaches and star teams and star players, and
it could be a you know, Wagner Rhode Island, Yukon.
He had a losing record each year. He's a culture guy.
(46:41):
He's an oven guy. He's not a microwave guy. It's
none of this fake bullshit like this is a this
is gonna be a slow roast, okay, and Lebron and
Anthony Davis if he signs a five year, sixty million
dollar deal, the Laker Genie Buss doesn't have the financial wherewithal,
she's not Balmer. That's not a rounding air for her.
(47:02):
So this is a real commitment. So I think everybody's
just got to take a deep breath. The Lakers had
this la. They were winning titles with no NFL team.
The Dodgers were good but not winning World Series. They
owned this city for twenty years, and they got real
use to leaking stuff to the media on a slop
and just stealing thunder. Well, if you're thirty eight and
(47:22):
forty four in this city next year and Herbert and
Harbaugh and here come the Clippers in their new arena,
you're going to be the fourth story really quickly. So
I think that's the key to me. It's not Hurley,
it's is the organization ready to take a deep breath,
make tough decisions, get a little younger, give up some players,
get some draft picks. I think they'll be I think
(47:44):
they'll be fine. Dan Dan's intents, you know, Spolster's way more.
I mean, Steve Kerrz intense, Tyleruson, but goods are I
mean Dan, Tony's not, you know, right Malone in Denver,
He's like a fistfight waiting to happen. I'm I'm okay
(48:06):
with intense. I think players respect it. I think you
can get run over very quickly in this league. I
think this is a moment in time where Lebron's probably
got two years left, maybe three. Lebron knows, like this
is no longer like running through him. I think he
knows it. I think he understands his value merchandising, tickets, production,
(48:28):
He sees his value. But Lebron knows, you know, this
is this is. This isn't Mahomes and his prime. This
is not what this is anymore. This is not this
is not the bubble year. This is not Cleveland or Miami.
This is a different time. So I'm excited for it.
Plus it just let's be honest, it's interesting. That's a
bigger one.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
That's interesting to your point, if they have another stretch
like they did post the late Jerry Buss passing away
where they suck for a decade, like that could cost
them their they.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Had no they didn't have a direction, then exactly, Curly
will guarantee you a direction exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
That's my point is like I like that type of
aggression because He's the kind of guy that can establish
a culture that lasts. And you know, one of the
other things too, as far as like the money goes,
I think it's crazy all the hand ringing about the
amount of money these coaches are making. Like if you
had to pay Dan fifteen million a year, Like, what
(49:25):
is that in the grand scheme of the salary cap?
What is that in the grand scheme of this new
media rights deal? What is that in the grand scheme of.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
All the league's making seven and a half billion a year? Like?
Who cares? Another thing is you have to empower a coach.
You can't pay your coach five and your seventh guy
is making twenty eight million a year. You just can't.
You can't do that. You have to empower these guys.
So I've said it. I would pay him twelve million
(49:53):
a year, twelve twelve and a half. His wife's a
Jersey girl, He runs the best program in college. You
just you know it's I like the new NBA. I
like the European players. I like the mobility is one
of those like small ball. Small ball is a lot
of nonsense. It was the Warriors mobility. It worked with
(50:14):
Lebron and KD for three years. Like the truth is
most of this league, most of the stories. You know,
Boston figured it out with KG, but Pierce was a
Celtic and by and large mobility. It hasn't worked for Kdie.
It worked for three years. It Lebron made it work everywhere.
So this is the league. Embrace it. Go get the
(50:35):
guy who does it better than anybody in college. And
by the way, he does it with big personalities. It's
the Northeast. He takes five star guys, he takes three
star guys like Yukon's a big program, high expectations, you know,
they get they get high profile players, high profile transfers.
They're going to be favored to win another national championship.
(50:57):
So it's not like he's dealing with a bunch of
two star guys the runs over. These are great players.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
These are guys with egos. Yeah, we we just need
to get you on the on a zoom call with
the Hurley family so you can sell them on how
great Los Angeles is and then then we can get
you to close the deal. All right, Colin, this was fun.
I'm looking forward to Game two this NBA Finals. Game
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All right, guys, that is all we have for tonight.
I will have a film session at some point up
on the YouTube channel tomorrow. As always, I appreciate you guys,
and we will see you again live after Game two
on Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed
the podcast, take a moment rate and review
The volume. All right, we are really really close to
crowning an NBA champ. I like the Celtics, by the way,
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(00:45):
Celtics in six baby.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
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Speaker 1 (01:31):
I picked Boston in six. I thought they would win.
That was my draft Kings pick. I thought Jalen Brown
would play well and the Boston Celtics would win, although
Kyrie didn't offer much of anything, and I thought he'd
have a decent assist night. You know, my takeaway is
the small ball revolution in the NBA was really a
bunch of nonsense. It was Steph Curry and Draymond Green
(01:54):
who could play big. Everybody tried to duplicate it for
about four years, and then everybody's like Houston got kind
of close. Size matters, and Porzingis on both ends, altering shots.
On the defensive end, he was the initial Unicorn seven
to four dribble shoot. There's nothing you can do. It's
why Wemby will take over the league next year at
(02:16):
the All Star break. Is that this is a big
man's game. You know, in the NFL, you know Bill
parce Sells and the late great George Young was a
general manager for the Giants, and his whole theory was
went in doubt, just draft big guys like big beat small,
and in the NBA, length and size is so important.
(02:36):
And my takeaway, if that's the poor Zingis I get
in the series, Dallas is in trouble. You know. One
of the things I said, they have such a mature
offensive team, and they're all a little different. I mean,
Tatum tonight was more assist guy than he was score guy.
And I said, you know, Tatum can have a bad
(02:57):
night in this series and they could win by fifteen.
Kyriees an off tonight they get shelled, and that to
me is the difference in the series. And I said
that before I knew what I was getting with Porzingis,
but I thought, you know, the size of Porzingis the
matchup problem. You know, Dallas came into this thing, let's
feel it out, and very quickly it's like, yeah, we've
(03:19):
got We're gonna have to go back to the drawing
board on this, and then Porzingis sits for a while.
But I would start with that is that, you know,
if I got six guys who could all drop twenty man,
that's in a with the Apron. Now it's hard to
get a third star. The league doesn't want it anymore.
(03:39):
They want you to draft and develop. That's what the
whole thing. Legal pay a lot of money. They don't
want you going to cherry picking stars. Boston. This is
an absurdly deep offensive roster. I mean, you go look
at Porzingis last year. He was the guy for Washington.
You're like that for a terrible team. That's an All
Star level player. Derek k Wwhite's a five, Derek White's
(04:01):
a two on probably thirty percent of the teams in
the league. So I thought tonight was a little bit
of what I thought is that Dallas cannot withstand a
bad luker Kyrie Knight Boston, Boston. If you told me
a Tatum and Derek White didn't play well, Boston could
still win. And so I just start with that, is
(04:21):
that Porzingis' size, He was the initial unicorn. It's it's
a problem. There's not a lot you can do. It's
a big problem.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I thought this game was a brilliant showcase of what
makes chrisps Porzingis awesome and how he elevates the ceiling
of this Boston team. First of all, he's their only
legitimate rim protector. Like Al Horford's a really interesting player
and does a lot to help this team on both
ends of the floor. But chrisops Porzingis is just a
mountain of a man that is really difficult to finish
(04:50):
over at the rim. In addition to that, he brings
this there. There are a lot of guys that can
shoot in the NBA at the center position. There are
very very few guys at the center position that are
like lasers, like you just can't leave them open. And
one of my biggest reasons why I picked Boston is
Dallas's defense is very much geared up at the rim
(05:12):
as like a rim protection team with Gafford and Lively.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
That's why they were good against Minnesota.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Exactly you know they're big exactly, and they have some
good perimeter defenders, but they don't have a bunch of
good perimeter defenders, and so when you can really spread
them out and Lively and Gafford can't solve problems at
the rim as rim protectors. It just challenges the weak
points of Dallas's offense. And then the second piece of
it with porzingis that goes beyond the three point shooting.
(05:38):
One of the easiest ways to counter a ball screen
is to switch it, because the whole point of the
ball screen is you can get downhill because the guy
has to chase over the top of a screen. But
if you switch it, it shuts it down. But what
makes Porzingis such a valuable weapon is if you switch it,
you're putting your smaller player onto Porzingis and he can
just walk them down to fifteen feet from the basket
(05:58):
and they can toss it back to him and he
can go to work. He showed it all in that
game one. He was protecting the rim. He was hitting
trailing threes. In transition, he was hitting spot up threes
and helped defense situations. He was hitting picking pop threes,
he was beating switches, by posting up around the elbow.
It was everything that makes Porzingis great. And I'm glad
you pointed this out because everyone just accounted for Porzingis
(06:21):
as like available and healthy. But like, it's really hard
to go thirty something days without playing NBA basketball and
then to walk in the NBA Finals, Like, I don't think,
I don't think, we're like. It just was so impressive
the way he immediately looked comfortable and immediately started thriving.
(06:41):
But a big part of that is he is the guy.
He's the key that solves all of the issues that
Boston could have had against this Dallas defense. He unlocks
it all. Was I was just completely blown away by him.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah. The other thing that jumped out the big winner
tonight too is Joe Mizzoula. So last year he looked
a little over his skis, a little bit over his skis.
You know, the Spolstra matchup, You're like, oh boy, this
is a mismatch. So they strengthen his staff, Brad Stevens,
you know, enhances the staff. Not only did he really
(07:15):
target Dallas's liabilities defensively, like he went right after him.
That's that's game prep. But when Dallas made a surge
in the third quarter, he calls a time out and
Boston goes on like a fourteen to nothing run. That's coaching,
that's Steve Kerr stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
The Warriors come out of halftime and there was going
these crazy runs. That's that's where coaching matters. Spolstra late
curer out side of halftime, and so I thought from
the opening game plan to that time out, re energizing
his team, making a couple of changes, and just putting
it away because you start watching Luca hit a couple
Boston had several really ugly, sloppy possessions. What you do
(07:52):
when you get ahead by twenty five, you just mail
in stuff. You know, you just don't. You can't stay
engaged for two hours and forty five minut You just
naturally get sloppy. Boston did. Luca gets them back in it,
and then all of a sudden, the timeout, and I thought, okay,
that's the difference this year. I don't think Missoula calls
a timeout. Last year they go on a fourteen to
nothing run. First of all, that did n Ab Porzingis
(08:15):
and Drew Holly. They're a better offensive team. Everybody feels
just Jalen Brown just gets a little better every year.
But that's a thing like that was one of the
things I worried about this with Boston. I said, I
don't know if Missoula is a good coach. I think
he's confident in the East. Is he a good coach tonight?
I was like, that's good coaching. That's noticeably good coaching
because Jason Kid's a much better coach than four years ago.
(08:38):
So that jumped out to me. You can respond to
that if you want.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, So I thought the time out, like, that's an
important part of coaching that doesn't really get talked about much.
We talked so much about personality management and tactical approach
and all these different things, but like, actually managing basketball
games is one of the most important parts of the
coach's responsibility. You have to feel when things are teetering
and time when you're going to kind of step in
(09:03):
and try to right the ship, so to speak. And
Boston just had a really ugly offensive stretch there that
looked very similar to a lot of the nasty offensive
stretches we've seen from Boston over the course of the season.
They were settling for quick shots, quick threes, isolation threes.
Immediately out of that time out, it was abundantly clear
that Missoula was harping on the fact that they needed
(09:23):
to get back to driving and kicking, because when they
beat someone off the dribble and they passed two or
three times and it's a wide open catch and shoot three,
it's a really good shot with really high value. When
they run up the floor in transition, and now Horford
just throws a transition wing three off the side of
the rim, like without running any sort of offense, that's
when they can get carried away. And then I'm glad
(09:44):
you mentioned the game plan because I thought Missoula's game
plan was brilliant to start this game. One of the
specific things he did was instead of putting Horford and
Porzingis on to Gafford and Lively their centers, he put
him on to PJ. Washington and Derek Jones Junior. So
what that does, which is really fascinating it. By the way,
this is a shout out to Jason Tatum, because Tatum's
defensive versatility is what gives him the ability to guard centers.
(10:07):
He's big enough to guard a center underneath the basket.
But because of that, Derek Jones Junior and PJ Washington
when they're setting screens for Luca and rolling to the basket,
they're not the same type of vertical spacers that can
catch lobs like Daniel Gafford and Derek Lively when they
pop to the three point line. They aren't very good
above the break three point shooters, and so I thought
(10:28):
it really threw Dallas for a loop offensively that they
didn't know how to attack, and then to add another
layer to it, the spacing gets all janky because even
when Luca and PJ are when Pj's rolling or Derek
Jones is rolling or popping when Luca's getting downhill, now
Tatum and Lively and Gafford and all those guys, they're
just like congregated around the basket, just messing up the spacing.
(10:48):
I thought it was a really smart defensive game plan
from Mizula. I thought he managed the game really well.
I thought that was a really good call out. What'd
you think of Jalen Brown tonight? I thought he did
an amazing job.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I picked him to be m VP of the series.
So I feel like Jalen Brown more than any Celtic.
I know exactly what I get. I get tremendous athleticism,
defensive pressure. He's always engaged, plays with a little chip
like like he finished at the rim. He gives you
about one of those a game, and I feel like
every year his offensive game gets a little more refined.
(11:22):
I don't think he's you know, maybe aesthetically as naturally
as fluid as a Tatum uh, maybe not as dynamic
as aunt uh doesn't have just the offensive uh skill
level of a Luca. But what he is is he's
just a really high IQ, intense, increasingly refined, energized player.
(11:45):
He's strong, He's got like a d Wade body. He's strong,
He'll he'll lean on you on the defensive end. I
think Jalen's a classic sort of kind of quiet you know,
he doesn't get he doesn't get chatty. He'll always be
underappreciated because he doesn't. He doesn't ask to be stared at.
(12:07):
He does a lot of little stuff. He's really good
with his body, really good at constantly like he knows
he's in great shape. He knows he can wear you down,
like Jalen in a seven game series is the kind
of player that could get stronger. He like d Wade
was like that. D Wade liked it. D Wade would
be on the floor constantly and You're like, just didn't
affect him. It's almost like a football player in basketball,
(12:29):
like he liked the physicality a pitcher that's better sixth
thenning on. And when I watch Jalen Brown, I just
feel like I get the exact same guy, maybe in
the best shape of the top three percent of the
league in shape, physicality, and you know something, that's what
I didn't get from because I want to pivot it
to this. So I write notes during games, a handful
(12:50):
of notes, and one of the notes I put in
the first half is where are the assists? So when
Kyrie's not hitting, okay, I need assists. Who gotta give.
I felt like tonight was like Lucas Turn Kyrie's turn
Lucas Turn. I thought there were I thought the crowd
affected Kyrie. He got a little into his head. I
(13:10):
didn't feel if he wasn't hitting his shots, he wasn't
doing anything else Whereas when Jalen Brown's not hitting his shots,
I still feel like get a complete player, a completely engaged,
energized player. When you're a great offensive player and you're
not hitting shots. I helped us feel like offensive players
can get a little moody, you know, they can just
kind of get out into their feels. I never feel
(13:32):
that with Jalen, so I thought Kyrie and I just
didn't get forget the shooting he was off. I didn't
feel like got enough energy from Kyrie. That was my take.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
No, one hundred percent agree. I thought in the second
half he was missing shots, but in the first half,
like he was taking bad shots, like he was kind
of forcing the issue. He had some bad misses in
that first half. He shot one off the side of
the backboard, like he got blocked, Like, yeah, he got
blocked in at ball screen, Like it was just he
was just kind of forcing the issue. I agree with you.
I think some of the situation with the booze and
(14:01):
just the intensity of the moment got to him a
little bit. Yeah, And you're right, like that's the thing,
like one of the to bring it back to Jalen
Brown like that, to me is what's fascinating about Boston's
roster build. You don't have Derek White, but before the
halfway point of twenty twenty two, you don't have Drew
Holliday before this year, you don't have Porzingis. Suddenly you
need him to be like an offensive engine next to Tatum,
(14:23):
and that'll shine a light on some of his shortcomings
as as an offensive initiator. But because there's so much
offensive talent on this team, he can be kind of
like pointed and shot in a very specific area where
he's great, and like I thought, he he ripped Luca
in the back court twice at in the first half
just with ball pressure. I thought in general, just him
(14:44):
being a pest on Luca was just a huge pain.
He was in help side, making blocks at the rim. Defensively,
he's just he's the one guy on the roster that's
actually like a true top tier athlete, like Tatum's really big, yes,
and he's also like a good athlete, but like Jylen
Brown is like an actual top tier NBA athlete. So
(15:04):
when he's allowed to focus on just being a wrecking ball,
it allows him to kind of channel his strengths in
his best areas and he can have success. Whereas with Kyrie,
they desperately need him to be great offensively in order
for him to bring the level of impact that they
need from him. And as far as the Assisco that
you brought up, I do think a big part of
that was Boston's defensive game plan. You could tell the
(15:28):
fact that they were not allowed to they were not
able to bring Lively and Gafford into ball screens as easily.
You can tell that kind of through them for a loop.
And I'm gonna dig into the film and try to
find some answers, but I'm really curious to see how
Dallas tries to counter that over the course of the series,
because You're right, it did turn into kind of your turn,
my turn type of basketball with Luca and Kyrie, and
(15:49):
they're gonna have to find a way to loosen that up.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah. I remember seeing Jalen Brown at Cal when the
PAC twelve was a conference, and my takeaway was cut
he you know PAC twelve, he's like an athlete. You're like,
this guy is he playing the football team? Like this
guy is just cut?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
And he was.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It was he felt a little stiff, and then Brad Stevens,
you know, the college coach, gets him and he just
gets more fluid and more fluid, And same thing with Missoula.
I just feel like there's certain guys in the NBA
that have made themselves into great players. I don't think
coming out of col I would have thought he would
(16:27):
be this good offensively. He just makes himself like I
don't know the numbers in front of me. I feel
like the first several years he was just like two
and a half three points better every year, and he
just you can see the work he put into it.
You can see it from his you know, his cardio,
his his build. Yeah, and you know a little bit
like d Wade. He's not a naturally brilliant shooter, but
(16:49):
he ends up with twenty five a lot and he's
playing on you know what I mean. Some guys just
they just end up they the points, like Jalen's points
are memorable. If he has twenty seven, you remember the points.
They're big points, they're points at the rim, they're steals
and dunks. Something else that jumped out to me that
I wrote down is that, you know, over the course
of a series, obviously Dallas will come out and have
(17:14):
huge energy in the first quarter of Game two. They're
going to come out with their hair on fire, and
Dallas is going to have to match that. But there
are some things like where does Lively fit in this series? Like,
I think Boston players will all take turns fitting wonderfully
in this series. They'll all get their shots. Tatum will
score more points in Game two. But there are a
(17:34):
couple of Dallas players that I think. You don't want
to play a series and you're reacting to Boston. You
want to make Boston try to react to you. And
I watched a couple of times to night. I scribbled
down like Dallas is just reacting, but Boston's setting the tempo,
Boston's doing what they want. Boston is dictating all the terms.
(17:56):
Dallas is just kind of reacting counter punching. And if
Kyrie's not hitting shots when you're counterpunching, you're gonna get
blown out. So there are some matchups in this series.
I'm like, Okay, Luca and Kyrie both have to play well.
I don't know what is Lively gonna be an offensive player? Like,
you know Lively can be a great rim defender. Well,
(18:16):
if Porzingis is gonna go to the perimeter and Horford's
on the bench much of the series, what is Lively's role, Like,
what is he gonna do? So I in my notes,
I just kept feeling like Dallas just reacted all night.
Only in that brief third quarter run when the when
the Salticus got sloppy, did I feel like Dallas sees
control and it was just sort of Luca.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Well, to put it simply, the reason why they're in
that reacting position is because Boston's like core set game
plan is clearly better than Dallas's kind of core set
game plan. Like they're the natural way they wanted to
come into this series playing heavily favors Boston, and so
Dallas is gonna have to figure out a way to
adjust now. I actually think Lively is a super valuable
(19:02):
piece for them on the defensive end because of his
ability to switch out onto the perimeter and guard a
little bit. He picked up some fouls in the second
half where he's just basic fundamental stuff. He didn't keep
his hands vertical, he kept like kind of coming down
on the player that was attacking him. But on the
offensive end, you're right, one of the things that gets
tricky is if he can come set a ball screen
and then roll hard to the rim and catch lobs,
(19:24):
then he's a real threat. But if you can't bring
him into a ball screen, because he's got Tatum on
him and they're switching, then suddenly he's just standing in
the dunker spot, and they're gonna have to find some
ways to counter that. I think an easy one is
to just incorporate him in the action. There's a way,
There are ways to run ball screens with three players,
So I would have Lively set the screen, and then
as soon as they switch, I would just backscreen for
(19:46):
Lively and try to see if you can get him
cutting downhill. That way, they're gonna have to find ways
to get those bigs moving towards the rim, because if
they're just standing there in the dunker spot, they're not
getting enough offensive rebounds, they're not cleaning up enough lobs
underneath the basket, they're not getting enough offensively out of
that position. You saw a little bit in this game too,
where they just went to Kliba because Kleiba can shoot,
(20:08):
and so they go to kleebet the five, so at
least they can space the floor a little bit. Maybe
that's the direction this goes. If they can't figure out,
if they can't figure out how to use Lively in Gafford,
then they go to and they have to lean into
Cleba and play small. That would be a really big
issue because now you're taking one of the foundational parts
of Dallas's offense, which is their rim running bigs and
their lob game, and you're just sidelining it, right, So
(20:29):
it's tricky, But again, this is what Boston does to you.
This is why it's such a tough matchup, and like
it it's super fascinating to me because this has been
kind of the theme of this playoff run, is like
how different teams match up with each other, and Boston
is uniquely equipped because of Tatum to neutralize the lob game,
and then on the other end of the floor, they're
uniquely equipped to attack the weak points in Dallas's offense.
(20:52):
How many a defense? How many times tonight did you
see Tata or like Luca end up on a switch
on one of the guys and then the boss player
would just drive right around Luca and then bring another
guy in and pass pass wide open three. Like, yeah,
that's an issue. Like in the last round, when Luca
would get switched on to Anthony Edwards, he'd have an
easy job, like just play up on him because if
(21:13):
he beats you off the dribble. No one's scared to
go bear, so Lively and Gafford are just waiting underneath
the basket to help you on the backside. That's not
how it's gonna be in this series. Luca's gonna have
to contain the basketball. It's gonna be a challenge for him.
And so I'm really really fascinated to see how the
matchups kind of shake out. I will say this and
I want to kick it to you just kind of
moving forward in the series. I there were a lot
(21:36):
of things that went Boston's way tonight. They came out
hair on fire and shot extremely well. A Dallas shot
very poortally. Luca and Kyrie both really struggled for the
most part. I thought Luca put up his points, but
he always does, but like he I thought, in the
key portions of the game, he struggled. And so there
is a very good chance that in Game two Boston
(21:58):
doesn't shoot as well and that Dallas shoots better. Kyrie
Luca played better. So I think Game two is gonna
be a really close game, and I think it's gonna
come down to crunch time, and I think it's gonna
be one of the first pivot points of this series.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
M I think this is gonna be an offensive series.
I just you know, again, the NBA would prefer you
don't have four or five veteran offensive pieces. Like think
(22:30):
about this, Tatum's a one, Porzingis on bad teams is
a one or a one. A Jalen Brown on lesser
teams is a one or one. A Derek White's a
two on lesser teams. And if you look at Drew
Holliday when Chris Middleton was hurt, he was a two
last year for Milwaukee. Okay, that's like five guys that
(22:52):
could be a two or a one. We may not
see a lot of that, even even if on a
Denver Gordon's really any defensive guy who can score, but
you don't view him in that role. I like KCP,
He's not a two on any team in the league,
even the bad teams. So you get to a point
with Boston where I'm like the league is trying to
avoid that. They like the OKC model, get draft picks,
(23:15):
bill develop, you know, just that's what the NBA wants.
They want. They don't want you to go and cherry
pick people. I think the NBA loves the Knicks. You know,
if you have to move a Randall to get a
Paul George whatever, that's fine, but they don't want this
accumulation of like five guys. Like I watched tonight and
I thought, you know, Dallas played old Clippers, figured it
(23:38):
out quickly young OKC. I didn't pick them to win
good series. But Oklahoma City's got a little Boston in it.
They can spread you out. You know. They're difficult young,
not as refined Boston. And I start watching this tonight
and I'm like, you gotta kind of pick your poison
with Boston. You're really like, you know, I kept saying
(24:02):
Indiana is so terrible defensively, Yeah, but Boston's really good offensively,
and you're just like, come on, you got five guys
that could be a two. I mean, I don't think
most if you're a casual people don't understand how good
Derek White is. He's like all NBA defense. He's long,
he's smart, he can shoot, you know, his plus minus
(24:23):
his net rating. It's like I think Boston, I think
Dallas is gonna have their hands full. I just think
you gotta just a little bit when you play Boston,
you gotta cross your fingers a little. I mean tonight
Tatum wasn't scoring a lot, Porzingis was unstoppable. I just
I don't want to overreact, but god, when's the last
(24:45):
I mean, Boston has just rolled through the league since October?
I mean, at some point, how many times have I
seen them win by like twenty two this year? I
just I don't overreact, but it's like when they're Poorzingis
is hitting, Okay, I'm kind of screwed a little bit.
There's matchup issues everywhere.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
No, You're you're absolutely hanging on and hoping that one
they miss shots and two they play stupid basketball, Like
you're you're actively hoping that they do that, because I
think we always they.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Did for about three minutes in the third court they did.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
To start the third quarter, and then we got to
the time out, and like to that point, like that's
what's what's what's kind of fascinating, Like I don't think
anybody disagrees that Boston's ceiling is higher than everybody's. It
was always just about their kind of like maturity and
their ability to consistently reach that ceiling. What you brought up,
I think is really fascinating and I've been thinking about
this a lot over the course of the last week.
(25:43):
Anybody could have traded for Porzingis anybody could have traded
for Drew Holliday, Boston Kyrie or Kyrie. Boston already had
the most talented roster in the league last year. That
was something I said consistently. Now they didn't live up
to that potential, but like they were all well, Derek White,
Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Al Horford and Marcus Smart that
(26:04):
was already, in my opinion, an incredible top five. And
Brad Stevens looked at this and was like, Nope, not enough.
And what's crazy here is like if they end up
hoisting the trophy, which you and I both believe they will,
like I think a good portion of the credit has
to go to Brad Stevens for basically being like, I've
got a couple of flawed stars. These guys need a
ton of support. Obviously, we're about to head into the CBA,
(26:28):
We're gonna have all these new restrictions. Let's put it
all in this year and let's see if we can
make a little bit of a run and like that,
like that's the thing, Like Boston outbid everybody for Christops.
They outbid everybody for Drew Holliday. And I can't help
but think about your kind of overarching philosophy, which is
like teams that take risks, you know, they're the ones
that usually end up at the end of the day
(26:49):
with the trophy.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah. I mean, if you can go to the trade deadline,
the Kyrie move, those are big swings. Those are big
swings by Dallas. And you know poor zing Is. You know,
basketball is really interesting because it's are the players come
into the league much younger and generally much less mature,
(27:14):
and so if you get into the wrong team or
the wrong spot, you can get kind of a bad reputation.
Porzingiss reputation. I mean, his game's different now, he's much
more perimeter than early when he would pound the ball,
and so Porzingi's got a reputation like bad guy, bad
locker room guy.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
All right.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Then he goes to Washington and he gets a fresh start.
He moves outside, shoots more or less pounding the ball.
The league becomes more analytic. People can show him real
data and you're like, oh, okay, that's a little bit.
That's a little bit of the unicorn and then Boston
Brad Stevens seizes on it and says, you know what,
with our really good room, he didn't have to be
(27:54):
a one or two here he can on nights. And
so I think sometimes in the NFL, if if you
come into the league at twenty three and by twenty
six you're kind of an idiot, like you just can't
figure stuff out, I'm kind of done with you. You
gotta be careful. In the NBA, basketball is a very
individual culture AAU. It's sort of about getting yours, showing off,
(28:20):
letting the world see how much talent you have. If
you get a bad opening locker room Washington for twenty years,
you get labeled. You know, bad guy doesn't compete, you know,
because an NBA locker room is so small, a really
talented guy that's distracted can really ruin a locker room. Hell,
(28:43):
in baseball, if you're a schmuck and you go to
the bullpen, you don't even said that dugout Like in football,
you splinter off at halftime or at practice with your unit.
So I think, like Kyrie's reputation earned Dallas took a
shot ad when he was in New Orleans. It was
like Dad bod Lazy doesn't want to play hurt. I
(29:05):
thought he was sensational the last year and a half.
So these NBA guys, if you just make a judgment
based on their first like three years, you can leave
a lot of stuff on the editing room floor. Like
you can't watch Porzingis tonight. It's almost a revelation. It's like, Oh,
this is exactly what he was. This is what people
(29:26):
thought he would be. He was the pre wemb pre
home groun. This is what people said. You can't stop him.
So you know, and I guess back to your initial
point is that these two gms took big swings on guys,
and Porzingis was thought of as a bad locker room
guy that was his rep four years in the league. Well,
he has an effected this locker room at all. I mean,
(29:48):
you can see the way the players, the Celtic players
treat him. They like him, you know what I mean,
And it's just part of their kind of unified effort.
So basketball football cultures are very different. There's a a
lot of things about the football culture I like, but
you have to be very you can't be as judgmental
in basketball. You're getting nineteen year old kids. Jesus. The
difference between nineteen and twenty four is a human being.
(30:11):
You know, once you get into your forty one to
forty seven, is the same guy nineteen to twenty three.
I got a lot of kids. It's a different human
And Porzingis now is like team guy, I mean, engaged
defensively guy cheering on teammate guy. So I you know,
Brad Stevens saw that, and Brad knows it because he
(30:32):
was a college coach. He sees these guys mature. He
knows they change my take.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, there's quite literally been zero complaint about Porzingis and
the entire exerience in Boston. You know, it's funny. I
went out with Grant and Paulsen in DC on radio
earlier today and he asked me just some questions about
the Wizards going into the offseason, and one of the
big things I kind of feel passionately about is this
specific thing you're bringing up, which is I feel like
(30:58):
a lot of people are out on Jordan Pool right
now and it's like he's young, and then he won
a championship when he was really young, so of course
it went to his head. He got a little bit
off the rails over the following couple of seasons, I
have a feeling that Jordan Poole when he's twenty seven
is going to be a really good basketball player, you
know what I mean? And to your point, like it's
(31:18):
like it's like before I did this for a living,
I worked in real estate and I was on the
investment side, and you just completely change the way you
look at homes more towards what they could be rather
than what they are. And I think that's a really
interesting kind of like approach for gms, especially in these
big market teams that are typically operating above the cap,
(31:40):
because from there you're not going to get a top
seven draft pick, right, So, like how do you find
talent beyond that? And like a big one is look
for guys who were in the lottery that failed at
previous destinations because they were in the lottery because they
were viewed to have exceptional base line talent, right, but
(32:01):
they failed in those original destinations because of any number
of factors, immaturity, circumstance, leadership, you know, anything, right, even
an injury potentially right. And that's the thing is like
those are the guys that you can that you can
kind of find real opportunity. I feel like Ruy Hachamurro
is that for the Lakers. A guy kind of in
a bad organization in Washington, and then they find a
(32:22):
role for him in LA and suddenly it works. Like
these PJ Washington playing for a terrible Charlotte Hornets team.
It's like, let's bring you into this winning circumstance and
give you a job that is more suited to your talents,
and let's see what you can do. And so in general,
I think it's really fascinating how these above the cap
teams have to kind of look for the investment type
(32:45):
of NBA players that kind of more fit within their
specific scheme.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Well, think about a lot of the guys that come
in and they're mature. A lot of them have stayed
in Villanova guys okay, because they're three star guys, so
they stay in college there, hard coached. They come in
more mature. But a lot of the AAU stars and
the G League guys that their NBA coach is their
first real grown up Like, so like the kid that
Houston got, is it Jalen Green? Like when you first
(33:13):
watched him, you're like, he got a lot of talent,
but he's all over the place. He didn't want to
play basketball. And then in year two you're like, oh
he's being coached. Yeah, like he may he's off ball,
he can actually help the team. Well, what would he know?
You know, It's like you just you don't know what
you don't know. So I think a lot of when
you watch these teams that do the little things, well,
(33:36):
the Knicks, they have a lot of guys that played
a lot of college basketball, so they're just like they're
twenty seven going on thirty four. And then you get
these guys that are super talented, lottery picks one and
done at twenty seven, they're twenty three, Like they just
they just haven't been coached. They haven't had an Izzo,
they haven't had a Jay Wright. And that I always
said that's the value of college coaching is, and now
(33:58):
there's nil. There's value in saying I want to stay
for a sophomore year of college in a really good program.
Somebody is really on my ass and I can make
decent money here. I can make it at the G
League and you're part of something. If you're part of
Villanova or Kansas, you're really part of a community, You're
part of a campus, and that's that's a real that's
(34:18):
I mean, that's different people, different races, religions, different classes.
It's it's it's hard, it's challenging, and so I think
I just think the NBA is different. You have to
be careful about labeling and judging. Now there are players
like D'Angelo Russell. This is what he is, right like
it's been established. Okay, I'm done trying to figure out
the Rubik's cube, like this is what he is. But
(34:41):
I think porzingis is God. You know, it was almost
tonight watching him play like he had that kind of
that devilish Grinnich smile. You guys aren't stopping me. I'm good. Yeah,
and it's uh, you know, that's basketball. You could do it.
There are times when when when you get at hot
and you just and you have size advantages and matchup advantages.
(35:04):
I think Game two will be really close and really
really competitive. I think it will be uh. I think
Dallas will come out and play much better. I mean,
if I'm Dallas, my takeaway is we got to get physical.
We got to put bodies on people. We have got
to and I think the officials tend to I don't
think they favor teams. I think they they favor even
They're gonna give Dallas some physicality in Game two. They're
(35:27):
going to allow Dallas to be physical. The officials will
do that. Now, by the way, Boston will be allowed
to be physical too, will they take advantage of it,
But I think Boston. I think my take is if
I was a coach of Dallas, I'd be like, guys,
we've got to win possessions on the defensive end. We
may not match up offensively. We have to win the
defensive end. We have to we have to move the
(35:48):
ball better. We had very few assists early. We've got
to win the defensive end. I think Game two will
be a different It looks like a different basketball game.
That's my guess.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
No, I one hundred percent agree that. And you bring
that physicality, you take an early lead, You add fresh
sure to Boston, which changes the free feeling that you
have when you shoot the basketball. Maybe they have a
lesser shooting night, and you give yourself a chance to win.
(36:15):
Before we get out of here, I wanted to ask
you about Dan Hurly, so I obviously, as someone who
roots for the Lakers. I actually was very excited about
this today. But what was your kind of takeaway from
that that big reveal this morning?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Well, I saw it like four thirty five, a Woje
palm starting my day. And my take was, I said,
you know, because I founded the volume, so I tend
to look at things from a managerial position. And so
I said, if I was Rob Polinka and Genie Buss,
and Minnesota's got Ant and Okac's got Chet and Sga,
(36:51):
and then there's Lucas twenty five, and you start looking
up and down, and you know, Jokic is still nice prime,
Boston's two guys in their prime, and you start looking
around and San Antonio and Houston this year I think
will pop, like it'll be different teams, and you start
looking around and thinking, listen, man, we got to start
drafting and developing here, like this is what the league.
(37:13):
If you start looking at the second apron, what the
CBA is in the NBA, We're not going to get
a third huge star here with Lebron and Ad. We're
just this is not gonna work. So we have got
to draft and develop. And so you can't watch these
playoffs and not come to this conclusion the NBA has
pivoted to young stars Katie Lebron's staff. It's over like that.
(37:36):
They're not running the league anymore. Like Tatum now is
one of the veterans. And I think my takeaway is, Okay,
who does that, Who drafts, who builds culture, who's tough?
It wasn't a pivot away from Lebron. It was a
pivot toward the league. The league now is a draft
and developed league. That's these players are going to get rich.
(37:57):
But the league watched what Golden State did with KD
and they didn't like it, and the owners didn't like it,
and the league didn't like it. I can remember talking
to fans of the NBA being like, I hate this.
This is just not fair. And I think the league
heard that Adam Silver did not like that move at all.
And so I think the Lakers, Rob and Jeanie look
at this and think there's a change. We don't want
(38:20):
to be the Clippers old, dysfunctional. You know one guy,
Terrence Man that feels like he's young. You know, it's
a lot of names and great on the marque. It's
a great movie poster. It's not really a championship team.
And I think the Lakers don't feel like it, and
you know, I just I that's my takeaways. They are
(38:43):
looking at this and stepping back and going we like
JJ Reddick, but he has no history in drafting and developing.
This is not what he does. By the way, there's
Connecticut players in this draft, you know, there's just and
also early the last three years he's recruited almost probably
every good domestic player in the first round he's recruited
or seen them. So I think they're gonna be active.
(39:04):
And that was my take is that you can't watch
these playoffs and not see this gigantic pivot. You know,
It's like when Manning, Brady and big Ben got old
and you're watching Mahomes and Lamar and Allen. It's like,
oh shit, we got ourselves a new league. As soon
as soon as Tom leaves, we got a new league.
It's a brand new league. And that that was my
(39:25):
take on it.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yours, Yeah, So I I there were three reasons that
I was excited about it. The first one is exactly
what you said, the draft and development piece. I think
a big part of it too, like you mentioned, with
the cat rules changing, it's gonna be really difficult to
have more than two stars.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And it's almost impossible, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Exactly, And I think he specifically is gonna excel at
finding role players that are great connective pieces next to stars,
because the Laker brand is gonna continue to bring in
star talent in one way or another, whether it's to
the trademarket, whether it's through free agency. They're gonna get stars,
but because of the new rules, you're not going to
get three of them, so you're probably gonna have to
and it's going to be about working on the margins
(40:05):
and finding discounted valuable players, which I think is something
that he's going to excel with the second two piece.
Two pieces of it. One, he's an offensive genius, like
literally an offensive genius. And specifically, what I find fascinating
is he was capable of generating space for his offense
(40:25):
with multiple non shooters on the floor, which I think
is super fascinating on a Laker team that has an
Anthony Davis that can struggle to shoot the basketball, that
is going to probably play a Jared Vanderbilt that struggles
to shoot the basketball. And he's he has all these
interesting concepts, like he's really good at disguising his sets.
He's a big believer in weak side action, which basically
(40:47):
occupies help defenders by making them think about what they're
doing on the weak side while your stars are running
ball screens on the other side. He's super creative as
a tactician, especially on the offense the end of the floor,
which I think is going to be work wonders for
a Laker offense that can get stagnant sometimes. And then
the third piece of it is he's just a psycho.
(41:09):
He's a psycho, he's competitive, and then I think he's
gonna bring enough cachet because that's the fear, right, Like,
if you're gonna play Devil's advocate, you're like David Blatt
comes over championship coach from Europe, Lebron scoffs at him
and says, I want the assistant instead, right, So like
that's what you're scared of. But I actually think Lebron
(41:29):
has a lot more respect for Dan Hurley. I mean,
especially seeing as he's been kind of like watching as
a fan as he's had his success over the last
couple of years. I think he'll have some success there.
And then I complained that you NonStop this season about
Darvin Ham not holding players accountable and then becoming and
then becoming a team that was really sloppy for stretches
(41:51):
because they didn't value individual possessions. They weren't good at
attention to detail. That will not fly under Dan Hurley.
He will be on those guys and I think it'll
help a lot well.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I try to defend Darvin Ham, but he is a
defensive minded coach. And you see this in the NFL.
Offense comes easier. The attention to detail from offensive coaches
is better. So like when you watch offensive like Steve Kerr,
like his he if you ever when they Mike Steve Kerr,
he picks on stuff, stuff up so quickly, like like
(42:25):
I'm not seeing it, I'm watching the game. He is
a possession to possession coach. Steve Kerr, he watches every
little mistake. Mark Jackson defensive coach. I always viewed him
as more of a defensive coach. The offense could never
quite get in sync. Now, Mark did a good job
on the defensive end, but I thought with Darvin Ham
is he could get players. I thought Anthony Davis was
(42:46):
absolutely sensational defensively this year. I thought he was the
defensive player of the Year, but his offense was inconsistent.
Darvin's not going to help you a lot there. Darvin
was a very limited offensive player. And so I think,
just like in football, I think coaches have a vote
goals good with Bigs, Dan Tony's doesn't like Biggs. Coaches
all have strengths and weaknesses, and Darvin, I thought, was
(43:07):
not as detailed. Offensively allowed sloppy possessions. What didn't hold
players offensively accountable. They'll make it up on the defensive end.
That's not the league. That's just not the league. You
you're gonna you're gonna shoot your way. I mean, you
start looking at teams. Dallas was a better offensive team
than Minnesota. They won the series. You know it's it's
(43:29):
you know, it is as as hard as New York played.
You start look Indiana. It was more consistently a higher tempo, healthier,
better offensive team with them offense is winning these series.
Like effort's great, but like that's that's why Boston's favored
in this series. They got five six guys that can
score twenty. And so I think Darvin doesn't necessarily fit
(43:49):
what's happening to the league, which is increasingly skilled, increasingly
unstoppable for players of size, And I think Hurley's good
with that. He understands what the what the sport is becoming.
That you play hard, play with urgency, get the details
down offensively, don't give up sloppy possessions. Lakers would have
(44:11):
bad quarters offensively, like just I mean, there are times
if you didn't have Lebron on the floor and Austin
Reeves was in foul trouble, you were done. They just
were a bad offensive unit. So yeah, I think to
your point is I tried to defend Darvin Ham, but
I'm seeing some of the same stuff in the NFL
where the skill now in the NBA is just too
(44:31):
damn good. It's just too good. There's just if you're
not equipped offensively, possession after possession, you'll just get run
out of this sport really quickly.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Oh for sure. Like look at this particular matchup here
for Dallas versus Boston, Like a big part you mentioned
it at the start of the show, like the stagnation,
the lack of the ball in player movement, the Luca
Kyrie kind of your turn, my turns bad. That is,
it works for Dallas because Lucas so damn good, and
(45:01):
he might be the best player in the world. But
like I do believe there's a reason why the league
has shifted towards more ball in player movement. That's why
we're seeing teams like Denver succeed in Golden State succeed
Golden State kind of really revolutionized five out offense and
brought it to where it is today. And like, I
just think, I think Dan Hurley is in touch with
what works in modern basketball, which I think is going
(45:22):
to help a ton. I think he's I think he
understands the complications of the transition to the NBA, which
I think will be his probably his biggest challenge. But
he knows he's gonna have to talk differently to professional
athletes than to college players. He knows that there's going
to be more, you know, media pressure with that LA
job on a day to day basis. Like we talked
(45:43):
about Darvin Ham all the time this season because it's
like that's if you were ranking high like high high
pressure coaching jobs in America, Lakers head coach is pretty
high up on that list, especially when Lebron James is
on the roster. And so I think he's up for it.
I think he can do it. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah. One of the things I've talked about today kind
of ad nauseum on my show, as I said, the
Lakers had twenty years in the second biggest city in
the country with no NFL teams in the NFL eventually
gobbles up every city. And now you've got Harbaugh, Herbert
and McVeigh and Stafford and the second richest owner in
Stan Cronk, and the Dodgers look like they're one hundred
and ten win team. Here comes usc to the big ten.
(46:19):
Balmer's got a new arena. The key in this is
are you okay now? Being the third biggest story in
La fourth on some weekends like because this city has
got star coaches and star teams and star players, and
it could be a you know, Wagner Rhode Island, Yukon.
He had a losing record each year. He's a culture guy.
(46:41):
He's an oven guy. He's not a microwave guy. It's
none of this fake bullshit like this is a this
is gonna be a slow roast, okay, and Lebron and
Anthony Davis if he signs a five year, sixty million
dollar deal, the Laker Genie Buss doesn't have the financial wherewithal,
she's not Balmer. That's not a rounding air for her.
(47:02):
So this is a real commitment. So I think everybody's
just got to take a deep breath. The Lakers had
this la. They were winning titles with no NFL team.
The Dodgers were good but not winning World Series. They
owned this city for twenty years, and they got real
use to leaking stuff to the media on a slop
and just stealing thunder. Well, if you're thirty eight and
(47:22):
forty four in this city next year and Herbert and
Harbaugh and here come the Clippers in their new arena,
you're going to be the fourth story really quickly. So
I think that's the key to me. It's not Hurley,
it's is the organization ready to take a deep breath,
make tough decisions, get a little younger, give up some players,
get some draft picks. I think they'll be I think
(47:44):
they'll be fine. Dan Dan's intents, you know, Spolster's way more.
I mean, Steve Kerrz intense, Tyleruson, but goods are I
mean Dan, Tony's not, you know, right Malone in Denver,
He's like a fistfight waiting to happen. I'm I'm okay
(48:06):
with intense. I think players respect it. I think you
can get run over very quickly in this league. I
think this is a moment in time where Lebron's probably
got two years left, maybe three. Lebron knows, like this
is no longer like running through him. I think he
knows it. I think he understands his value merchandising, tickets, production,
(48:28):
He sees his value. But Lebron knows, you know, this
is this is. This isn't Mahomes and his prime. This
is not what this is anymore. This is not this
is not the bubble year. This is not Cleveland or Miami.
This is a different time. So I'm excited for it.
Plus it just let's be honest, it's interesting. That's a
bigger one.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
That's interesting to your point, if they have another stretch
like they did post the late Jerry Buss passing away
where they suck for a decade, like that could cost
them their they.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Had no they didn't have a direction, then exactly, Curly
will guarantee you a direction exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
That's my point is like I like that type of
aggression because He's the kind of guy that can establish
a culture that lasts. And you know, one of the
other things too, as far as like the money goes,
I think it's crazy all the hand ringing about the
amount of money these coaches are making. Like if you
had to pay Dan fifteen million a year, Like, what
(49:25):
is that in the grand scheme of the salary cap?
What is that in the grand scheme of this new
media rights deal? What is that in the grand scheme of.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
All the league's making seven and a half billion a year? Like?
Who cares? Another thing is you have to empower a coach.
You can't pay your coach five and your seventh guy
is making twenty eight million a year. You just can't.
You can't do that. You have to empower these guys.
So I've said it. I would pay him twelve million
(49:53):
a year, twelve twelve and a half. His wife's a
Jersey girl, He runs the best program in college. You
just you know it's I like the new NBA. I
like the European players. I like the mobility is one
of those like small ball. Small ball is a lot
of nonsense. It was the Warriors mobility. It worked with
(50:14):
Lebron and KD for three years. Like the truth is
most of this league, most of the stories. You know,
Boston figured it out with KG, but Pierce was a
Celtic and by and large mobility. It hasn't worked for Kdie.
It worked for three years. It Lebron made it work everywhere.
So this is the league. Embrace it. Go get the
(50:35):
guy who does it better than anybody in college. And
by the way, he does it with big personalities. It's
the Northeast. He takes five star guys, he takes three
star guys like Yukon's a big program, high expectations, you know,
they get they get high profile players, high profile transfers.
They're going to be favored to win another national championship.
(50:57):
So it's not like he's dealing with a bunch of
two star guys the runs over. These are great players.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
These are guys with egos. Yeah, we we just need
to get you on the on a zoom call with
the Hurley family so you can sell them on how
great Los Angeles is and then then we can get
you to close the deal. All right, Colin, this was fun.
I'm looking forward to Game two this NBA Finals. Game
one instant reaction was brought to you by Chase Freedom Unlimited.
Unlimited one point five percent cash back is just the beginning.
Cash back three percent on dining including takeout, three percent
(51:25):
at drug stores, five percent on Chase Travel, and one
point five percent on everything else. How do you cash back?
All right, guys, that is all we have for tonight.
I will have a film session at some point up
on the YouTube channel tomorrow. As always, I appreciate you guys,
and we will see you again live after Game two
on Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed
the podcast, take a moment rate and review
Host
Colin Cowherd
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