Westbrook's L.A. Role & Shaquille O'Neal

Mannix and Beck discuss how Russell Westbrook will fit into the Lakers offensive scheme, what the expectations are for the Utah Jazz this season, and Joel Embiid's comments on Ben Simmons from training camp before Mannix talks to Shaquille O'Neal about Simmons, the Lakers offseason moves and his work refurbishing public basketball courts

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Crossover and NBA show hosted by Sports Illustrated.
It's Chris Mannox and Howard Back. It's a whole new
level for you and me. Chris, this relationship, I can
subscribe for the best weekly NBA content. These two are
capable of. What does that mean? Could be the best
duo ever. I'll see how you can beat that. Here
they are, Chris Mannix and Howard Back. All Right, Crossover

(00:27):
NBA Podcast Chris Mannix and Howard Back, Week two of
the NBA season. Can you feel that excitement? Back? Oh,
I can feel it. I can I can feel something.
I feel guys getting more shots in their arms. We've
got fewer holdouts suddenly. That's probably a positive sign as

(00:48):
we inch closer to the season. Yea more than of
the NBA is vaccinated. Andrew Wiggins has been vaccinated. We're
gonna get into that a little bit later in the
show when we talk about one guy that is still uncertain,
that being uh Kyrie Irvan. We've got a great show,
uh today Back. Not only are you and I going
to get into a lot of different topics, but your

(01:10):
old friend Shaquille O'Neill is going to join the show
a little bit later. Ron already taped the interview with Shack.
But I can tell you Shaq did ask for you.
He did ask where is Howard? So the relationship you
guys forged over however many years in Los Angeles. Uh,
it's still uh, it still is. There was my Beck,

(01:32):
him kind of talking like what you're talking about? Willis there?
That I should have probably done that a little slower.
Shack's pace is a little bit more methodical. Gotta get it.
But I hope you've got at least one good however, Yeah,
I got a couple. Um he Jack was great. We
talked about the the evolution of the big man in

(01:52):
today's game. We talked a lot about Ben Simmons. He
had some strong opinions about the Simmons situation, which is
still evolving in Philadelphy're gonna get to that here as well.
But I want to begin this week Howard with the Lakers.
Last week we covered everything that happened on the Monday
media day. We taped our episode before the Lakers had

(02:13):
their media day. Uh, and it was interesting for a
couple of different reasons. One you had, uh, you know, Lebron, James,
Anthony Davis Russell Westbrook talking about the fit, and I
want to jump right in with one of the key
quotes that I took away from Lebron's media availability. Someone

(02:35):
in the in the Lakers press corps asked Lebron what
he expects from Russell Westbrook. Here's what he had to say. Um,
as far as Russ, um, we need Russe to be Russ.
We need Russ to change for anybody. That's why we
got him, um, you know, and that's our job to
ah help him feel comfortable in our system. Um, you know.

(02:56):
And he's going to be as dynamic as he's always been,
you know. So I look forward to that. So Lebron
seems to think that the Westbrook we've seen over the
last few years post Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Westbrook, Houston Westbrook,
Washington Westbrook is the Westbrook that this team is expecting

(03:18):
and this team needs that. Immediately raised some red flags
for me, Howard, because I just don't see how a
player who is consistently one of the top two or
three players in the NBA in usage rating can coexist
with two other players who are in the top twenty
five in usage rating without making a substantial change to

(03:43):
his game. So give me your takeaway from the Lakers
media day and kinda some of the things they said
about playing with Russell Westbrook. Let Russ by Russ has
been the theme of Russ's career for both good and bad. Right,
Letting rush by rush means he's gonna put up astronomical numbers.
It means he's gonna be exciting as hell. It means

(04:04):
he's going to be relentlessly attacking the basket. It means
he's gonna get your team, even if it's just him,
is the only star. He's gonna get your team in
the playoffs pretty much every year on sheer force of
will and and his tenacity. So let rust be rush
to that extent is great, but it has a limit,
and we've seen that limit. It usually is a first

(04:24):
round playoff exit. It's low efficiency scoring on high usage,
and it's kind of playing one way away That caters
to Russ's game each time he's moved playing with Bradley
Beale before that, playing with James Harden, you think, well,
what's he going to do to adjust his game to
make it either more efficient a little maybe you just

(04:47):
a little bit less a few fewer three point attempts,
especially fourth quarters per game, he'd be more efficient. So
maybe just ratchet down your usage and it might benefit
your team because you're still gonna create all kinds of
space around you because teams are gonna collapse to try
to stop you from getting to the rack. But he's
not ever really made that adjustment, all right, So this

(05:08):
is the true test, though, Chris. This is it because
Russell Westbrook is playing with one of the greatest of
not the greatest players of all time and a guy
who is a phenomenal playmaker himself, and Lebron. He's playing
with a second elite talent, a top five level talent,
in Anthony Davis. If he's not going to reel back now,
if Westbrook is not going to make some kind of

(05:28):
concession now, then he never is. And if he's not
going to make that concession, I'll go one step further,
then the Lakers are maybe not gonna get where they
need to go because the version of Russ that we've
seen the last few years can't work with the Lakers
because those are gonna be possessions taken away from Anthony Davis,
who's a much higher efficiency score and away from Lebron,
who's a much higher efficiency score and a better playmaker.

(05:52):
So I'm not saying it can't work, But like most
people around the league that you and I have spoken to,
I'm skeptical. I'm skeptical because it's going to require a
more constrained version of Russell Westbrook. And I'm not saying
he's incapable of that. We saw James Harden do it
in Brooklyn last season after a lot of skepticism there.
Everybody can make an adjustment, but until you do, we

(06:15):
have a right to be skeptical that you're going to.
My question is, Howard, what kind of change could we
possibly expect. I mean, Westbrook is a career thirty three
point shooter. Last year he shot from three. The year
before that in Houston he shot from three. He's not

(06:36):
going to evolve into a three point shooter. Is not
gonna happen at this stage of his career. So I mean,
let Russ be. Russ might be the only option the
Lakers have. I mean, yes, he will kick start their
transition offense, which was not what they hoped for last season.
He will be very good at that, But when the

(06:56):
game gets into half court, He's got to have the
ball in his hands, because if he doesn't have the
ball in his hands, I'm not sure what you see
is to that team Offensively, Defenses are going to naturally
drag off him. You know, whoever's defending Westbrook is going
to be kind of in the paint, daring Westbrook to
shoot from three point range. I'm not sure what adjustment
is there? Are you because he's just not going to

(07:20):
become something more than he is right now. And I
agree with you. You put Russell Westbrook on a team
of on a team that without him would be like
bottom five in the league. He can wield them into
the playoffs. He's that good and he's that capable of
carrying a team. But the flip side of that coin
is you put him on this type of team where

(07:41):
he's got to be more of an off the ball player,
where he's got to be a better perimeter shooter. They're
going to be times when Russell Westbrook is a liability.
Yes to all of that, but I'm not gonna say
that it's impossible for him to adapt in ways that
could benefit the Lakers. Right uh. The one most obvious
one claims much as possible without Lebron on the court, right,

(08:03):
get some Westbrook, Anthony Davis stuff going, get some Westbrook
and just bench crew going maximize his playmaking potential and
his ability to break down a defense and get to
the rack and and and create open shots for their guys.
Do that as much as possible when that's on that
second unit. So now you solve one of the Lakers
problems over the last couple of years since they've gotten Lebron,
which is when Lebron goes to the bench, offense falls

(08:23):
off a cliff. There's nobody to make plays. Um, now
you've got Westbrook. You also Rondo's back, obviously, but they
should be able to sustain a much higher level of
offense without Lebron on the court. And if and if
let's say Lebron gets hurt again, because he's gonna be
thirty seven in December and he's he's taking longer to
come back from injuries, he misses any time at all, Chris,
they have a phenomenal backup plan in having Westbrook there.

(08:46):
It's more I get that. I get that that's great
in the regular season, and you know, that's great for
three and a half quarters. But what happens in the
final six minutes. Who is out there on the floor,
and how do you make it work without having somebody's
ego massively bruised, that person most likely being Russell Westbrook.
Which're gonna have Lebron on the floor, you gonna have
a d on the floor. Um. You can certainly adjust

(09:07):
for that by doing what I think the Lakers are
going to do, which is play Anthony Davis at center
a lot more. I mean, Davis was asked about playing
center media day. He kind of had this word salad
type of answer where he understand he's gonna have to
play more center, but they're gonna be a lot of
times he's not playing center. Um, it's sort of a
weird thing. It's something I'm gonna be I'm looking forward

(09:27):
to watch in the early stages of the season because
Rob Polenka has said that the reason they went out
and brought Dwight Howard back and got DeAndre Jordan's is
that a year ago when they won a championship. Um,
this was a team that succeeded with two kind of
bruising big men in the middle that that could bang

(09:48):
a little bit. Um, that's fine, But with this team.
If DeAndre or Dwight is out on the floor with
Anthony Davis, that means Lebron is the small forward and
then you basically have one shooter from the Wayne Ellington,
Kent bays Moore, Trevor Reesa. You know, pick your player
from that group, and that defense is going to figure

(10:10):
that out. They're gonna figure it out. Good teams are
not going to get beat by that type of lineup.
I just I just don't know. I'm just very curious
to see what kind of rotations Frank Vogel comes up
with in the first few weeks of the season. Yeah,
and to that point, um, and to my earlier point
about bench units, I don't really want a bench unit
with Westbrook and DeAndre Jordan's or Westbrook and Dwight Howard,

(10:34):
because that's that's two non shooters and you're gonna make
life a lot more difficult for everybody around them. So
you know, the is this great shooter either, so like fine,
but you're gonna respect him away from the basket and
even out to three point range in a way that
you don't even have to think about with Dwight or DeAndre.
So yeah, the other piece of This is a lot

(10:55):
of Westbrook's inefficiency, and especially as fourth quarter inefficiency, the
time when he has sometimes his teams or at least
handicapped him, is because he's jacking up you know, shots
and transition, he's jacking up threes. He's just taking shots
that are that are low percentage shots for Russell Westbrook.
All he has to do, Chris, in my mind, is
eliminate a few of those, and especially in fourth quarters,

(11:17):
because he's gonna still be a threat to get to
the basket. I mean, the problem to me is more
of this in the in the critical minutes of a
close game. You want the ball in Lebron James hands
more than you want to in Russ's hands. But Russ
does not really do much off the ball, and his
defender is going to sink and that's gonna clog things
up for for Lebron and a D. So like that's

(11:37):
a part you gotta figure out. You're right, I'm not
expecting Russell Westbrook to suddenly transform into a thirty percent
three point shooter in year whatever. This is just because
he's with the Lakers. I'm not expecting much to change
about him at all. Maybe he'll amp up his defensive
intensity a little bit being around Lebron and a D
and like that's that's possible. He's not gonna turn into
a shooter overnight, but he can eliminate bad shots. No

(11:59):
one's forcing him to take those shots. No one was
forcing to take them before. Cut out a few of
those and the rest of his game that is so
valuable in terms of playmaking and rebounding and attacking the basket,
you can still get the most out of that. I
don't doubt Russell Westbrook's desire to win at the highest level.
I don't doubt even Westbrook's willingness to change because it

(12:24):
may have been subtle. But you look at that year
in Houston, excuse me, he did make some adjustments playing
alongside James Harden. You look at last year in Washington,
he did make some adjustments playing alongside Bradley Beald. Now
none of those adjustments are even close the kind of
adjustment is gonna have to make playing alongside Lebron, James

(12:45):
and Anthony Davion. So I think Westbrook is going to try.
But if he continues to be a low thirty or
below three point shooter, I don't know how you're going
to be able to keep him on the floor with
this group in the fourth quarter of games. I think
you're more likely to want Lebron to be the de
facto point guard and surround him by those other shooters

(13:09):
that are out there, keep Davis at that five spot.
That is probably the lakers most efficient fourth quarter lineup
as we look at it on paper. Now, maybe things
shake out differently when the season starts, but this is
going to be a challenge for Frank Vogel trying to
figure out the spots to put Russ, and I think
he could be a huge asset to your point second

(13:29):
and third quarters. Lebron comes off the floor, give him
needed rest. Uh, let Russ be Russ during those stretches.
But if that game is close in the fourth and
you're deciding on a rotation, I just don't see it yet.
I don't see how Lebron, Russ and a d Are
are the Lakers best offensive lineup in the fourth quarter.
And I hate to say, Chris, but I mean I

(13:50):
really do think that to the extent of the Lakers
made a choice here on Westbrook instead of Buddy Healed
Um he was obviously they did. They did make a choice.
I mean that's the reality field was the cleaner fit,
not you know, lower ceiling than Westbrook, but the cleaner
fit the more logical fit, especially when you're talking about
closing games and wanting the ball in west In in
Lebron's hands, and what shooter? What shooter has not thrived

(14:14):
off of Lebron James. Yeah, how we talked about this
a few podcasts ago. But how many years did Kyle
Corver's career get extended by playing off Lebron? I mean, buddy,
Buddy Heeld, I think would have been excellent in the
l A. I'm not gonna say that this is the
only reason that they did it, but I will just
you know, allude to this because I think it keeps
getting forgotten. Lebron's first year in l A, he only

(14:34):
played fifty five out of eighty two games because of
the groin injury. Um, he played sixties seven out of
seventy two in the pandemic short and season right over
the year they win the championship. But think about what
had to happen there. He would he plays all but
five games there were three months off. I mean, Lebron
might have benefited more than anybody from the downtime from

(14:56):
when the NBA had to stop play to when they
picked up in the bubble. So I'm not aster risking
anything there. I'm just saying we have to consider that
he got a three month break in the middle of
a season at this late stage in his career. That matters.
We go back to a normal ish season last year,
seventy two games, and he played forty five because of
the high ankle sprain and was not healthy in the playoffs.

(15:18):
So eight two, sixty seven, seventy two in a season
that was interrupted, and then for seventy two. I'm not
saying it's the only reason you go out and get Westbrook.
But there's a good chance that that Lebron, who turns
again thirty seven in December year nineteen, if he's not
gonna get through the season, if you think that there's
a decent chance that you've got to either cut down
his minutes or that there's gonna be some nagging injury

(15:40):
here or there that you just don't want to I
don't want to push through when you're trying to play
for June. Westbrook's a really nice insurance policy, and he's
a that's a very expensive one at forty two four million,
whatever it is. But having a luxury of a playmaker
and initiator at that level, offensive force at that level,

(16:01):
it's not a small thing. You do got to get
through through the season. But you're right, Ultimately in May
and June, the discussion we're gonna be having is how
are they using him in the fourth quarter? Is it working? Yeah?
I think in a way, you you basically a limited
back to back for Lebron because if you're playing like Detroit,
or Orlando or Minnesota in the second end of a

(16:23):
back to back or first end of a back to back,
you can feel pretty confident you can win that regular
season game by resting Lebron and playing Russell Westbrook. That's
a that's a big thing for them. And I'll just
throw in one more point just to kind of put
a cap on this from my end. You know, when
we talk about, you know, like expectations for the Lakers, right,
it's championship or bust. Every year's championship or bust. Even
in their bad years they were championship or bust. That's
just how l A is with the Lakers and Lebron

(16:44):
is championship or bust for his entire career too. That's
just the way it goes. The good news for the
Lakers is whatever flaws you and I and anybody else
in the league might see about Westbrook and his fit
and you know, talking about the age of the rotation
all that stuff, the field is not that intimidating in
the West right now. It's a lot of good but
not overpowering. And so Phoenix really really good team. But

(17:05):
I don't are the Lakers gonna fear Phoenix or the
star power there? No Utah, good but not overpowering Denver?
Are they gonna get Jamal Murray back? And at that
point you might start to worry the Clippers. Are they
gonna get Kahi Leonard back? Dallas Portland? I mean, who
in this field are the Lakers really fearing? If the
Lakers are at full strength in the playoffs, um, that's

(17:27):
that's the bottom line there, Like there's there. They're not
going to face the kind of resistance that you might
have been a different year. They may not face, you know,
a truly star latent team until the finals in Brooklyn,
assuming that Brooklyn makes it. How dare you disrespect the
Jazz like that show notes Howard Beck hates the jazz.
We're gonna get into the jazz would have been later

(17:48):
in this podcast. I do want to touch though, on
the seventies Sixers. The Sixers did everything they could two
uh try to entice Bend Simmons back on media, said
all the right things. Dwell Embad said he wanted to
play with them, Doc Rivers and Darryl Mourray said they
wanted him back. Teammates lined up to say how much

(18:09):
they wanted to play with Ben Simmons, that those good vibrations,
Howard were short lived. In Philadelphia. There was a report
in The Athletic during the week that indicated that Ben
Simmons felt that the partnership with Joel Embiid had effectively plateaued.
That was brought to Embiad's attention during one of his

(18:29):
media availabilities, and Embiid said, this got ballways been built
to law the knees. So he was kind of surprising
to see you know all was saying that, even going
back to Uh, I mean the reason we sign out is,
you know, we got wind of Jimmy, which I seen
he wasn't this thing. Uh, you know, we wanted he

(18:54):
needed the ball in his hands, and you know that's
a decision that made. So I'll put it through this way. Howard,
did things get better or worse for a reconciliation between
the Sixers and Ben Simmons this week, I'm gonna say neither.
I'm going with options see none of the above. Well,
because of this, I mean, yes, they were trying to

(19:17):
make some kind of appeal to him on you know,
the start of the week and a lot of media
day last week. Doc is trying to tell us all
that we didn't hear what we actually heard, and everybody's
trying to make nice say we still would welcome Ben back.
Ben Simmons already made the decision. He's not coming back.
I'm not sure anything else they said the rest of
the week or or EMBEDI saying things that were obviously

(19:38):
um in some form a critique of Ben Simmons or
dismissive in some ways of Simmons. Like, nothing else that
they say matters. He like every bit of reporting we
have seen is that he ain't coming back. He ain't
playing for them again, He's not showing up. Nothing is
going to change that. So I'm not sure it matters
what they say at this point, Chris like, it's it's
it's immaterial. Um. But also by the way, Joel embiid

(20:02):
and that whatever is four and a half minute answer.
Though he said some things that could be taken as
slights against Simmons, he also said we're many times we're
better with him then without him, So you know he
he's not trying to just completely dismiss him. But I
don't think it matters what the Sixers say or what
they feel or what they're attempting. Ben Simmons has made

(20:22):
up his mind. He's not coming back, so get better
or worse. It's it's it's it's a draw to me. Um,
things just are what they are at this stage. It's
a stale. I I do think it got worse though,
and you can say it doesn't matter, but MB basically
coming out and said we've spent the years building around
the talents of Ben Simmons. Uh doesn't make things better,

(20:47):
that's for sure. And I do love that he basically
put the departure of Jimmy Butler at the feet of
Ben Simmons. I think we both know it's not that simple.
Butler had issues with Brett Brown. Um, there was no
guarantee he was gonna come back anyway, but you know,
and be kind of putting it out there that he
wanted Dream Butler back and indicating at least that Ben
Simmons didn't want to play with that kind of player. Um.

(21:11):
You know, when I talked to different team executives, I
pretty consistently here that they are hoping the Sixers hold
their ground here and look, maybe Ben Simmons will never
come back to Philadelphia. That seems to be the most
likely way this plays out. But there were executives that
I talked to that were happy that the Sixers put

(21:34):
that eight million plus lump payment into escrow and effectively
are using it to doc Ben Simmons um his pay
while he's out, which will really start to get going
as we get into preseason games and of course into
the regular season. Um, they are most teams I've talked to,
even ones that aren't kind of thrilled with the way

(21:55):
Darryl Moray does business, and there are a few of them.
There are exacts that get exasperate and sometimes by some
of the deals Darrel proposes. Um, even those people, they're
hoping Philadelphia stands their ground here. They don't want to
see a precedent set where a guy can hold out,
he can get what he wants and still get all
his money and still get every nickel that he's owed

(22:19):
on his contract. Now, if Ben Simmons gets traded in
three months, certainly if his representatives go to the team
and say, look, why don't pay bennets who salary, maybe
they will as a gesture of goodwill towards Ben Simmons.
But this, what the Sixers have done has is the
first step in doing all they can to ensure that
Ben Simmons doesn't get paid his full salary this season.

(22:43):
I there are teams out there cheering Philadelphia on on
this because they don't want to see a precedent set
where Simmons, you know Simmons can do this, and then
maybe it opens the door for other players to do
this with multiple years left in their contract and creates
the kind of headache that that teams don't want to have. No,
you don't want this to become the new normal, um

(23:05):
and you you don't want a guy to be able
to do it without any consequence, and a financial consequence.
You can't just not show up, not fulfill your contract
and for no good reason, by the way, I mean,
I think I've already said this maybe twice in the
last week on on the Friday Show, when I had
on your own Whitesman and Jake Fisher to talk about
the Sixers. Might have even talked about it when you
and I last spoke. It's hard to remember what I

(23:27):
said when, but I'll say it again. There's no good
reason for Ben Simmons to be gone. I don't care
how much his feelings are hurt. I don't care how
much he doesn't like the fact that EMBIID is more
the number one option and he thinks he'd be better off.
So I don't care that that you can't just not
fulfill your contract and not show up because you don't
feel like you're being properly appreciated or catered to. That's preposterous.

(23:50):
And if that were the standard, then yeah, we'd have
holdouts all over the league, and you can't have that. Um.
I'm not even sure, by the way, as a logical
matter here with regard to the c b A and contracts,
this idea that Ben Simmons, once he gets traded, he'll
get all the back pay that the Sixers are withholding
That's never been the case in any trade ever. The
team that that you are employed by at the time

(24:12):
of those paychecks are due is responsible for those paychecks,
and then after you get traded, the new team is
responsible for the paychecks every day thereafter. I don't see
how the Minnesota Timberwolves or something, whoever acquire him in
January can give him his back pay for October when
he wasn't showing. Let me ask you this, then, let
me ask do you think there's a breaking point for

(24:33):
Ben Simmons, Because you know, we can sit here and say, guys,
Rich made hundred million dollars whatever he's made in his career.
I mean, he's, oh, thirty three million dollars this season. Like,
I wonder if at some point he says, I gotta
get back and now maybe there's a plan B where
Simmons comes back and says he's injured. You know, I

(24:55):
don't know, maybe there's another level to all this, But
I gotta imagine as resolute as Ben Simmons and his
representatives are at this point, there's got to be a
point where they're like, maybe we bluffed and they called.
Maybe they just don't they don't have the hand here, Howard,
Like they don't think so I don't. I don't see

(25:15):
how they do, because I mean, this isn't like even
if he's willing to sit out an entire year, which
I don't believe. Uh, it's got three more years after
that left on the contract. So what are you gonna do?
Sit out four years? And I don't even know what
the I was asking around and I don't think anybody's
I haven't got a definitive answer. But like, it's not
like if he sits out the season he gets credit
for the contract, like I think he would roll over again.

(25:37):
But that's another that's again we're in kind of unprecedented
territory here. Um, I just wonder where that line is, Like,
at what point does Ben Simmons said, Okay, I've lost
the eight million that I was supposed to get paid
this season. The Sixers are gonna dock me even more
at the next big paid a point. I wonder if

(25:58):
he has a breaking point when it comes to because
that's a lot. I don't care who you are, how
much you make, that is a lot of money that
he is now losing in real time. So we haven't
heard from Ben Simmons obviously, and we haven't heard directly
from his representation, but when things get leaked out about
what Ben Simmons's intentions are, you can bet it came
from his camp and people very close to this situation

(26:20):
or calling these shots. Maybe it's a bluff, but they
have put out there that he's willing to to sit
out the whole season. It's got to be a bluff.
I'm with you. I don't buy that either, um, And
we we know how much the money matters because in
another case, Andrew Wiggins just got the COVID vaccine because

(26:42):
he was going to have to give up whatever it
was million a year for the season if he didn't
play in any home games for the Warriors. Right. I
hate to say that it's just about the money, but like,
what else was motivating Andrew Wiggins who clearly clearly clearly
did not want to do this Otherwise, Maybe it was
some sense of duty to his team and his teammates.
It could have been some other factors. But at the
end of the day, it's hard to just delete eighteen

(27:04):
million that you were owed, and in Simmons's case, thirty
three million. I don't see it either, And for what, Like,
what exactly are you what what the principle you're standing
on here? What is Ben Simmons accomplishing or what? What? Um?
What position is he really defending that he's willing to

(27:25):
sacrifice three million four It doesn't make any sense. So yeah,
I think if they don't find a trade sooner than later,
he's back because and and even in that scenario, to Chris,
you can't show up and say well, I'm hurting, I
can't play. No, they have a right to put you
through medical tests and say well, what's hurting? And then
the league is going to back you up on that,

(27:45):
and then the union can can file a grievance or something.
I mean, it's hard to force a guy to play.
But if he's with again, if it's withholding his services,
he's not fulfilling his contract, he still should be giving
up the millions that he signed for because it's he's
not filling his contract and the NBA cannot let that stand.
I don't know what the trade is at this point
that would entice Philadelphia to pull the trigger right now.

(28:08):
I mean, do you really want like a Colin Sexton
headlined package from Cleveland? Um, now that Wiggins is vacineer
that takes something off the table. You've gotta deal with
Golden State. While Joe lake Up already said and cost
himself fifty dollars saying it that they weren't prospect for
Ben Simmons. We know Portland's off the table, at least
for right now. I mean, you know, I don't see

(28:30):
Philadelphia blinking anytime soon. I don't. And the question then
becomes will Simmons blank? Well, but I don't know. It
leads back to the two pieces of conventional wisdom that
I disagree with. And I've talked to some people around
the league who support my position on this, or we
say that they agree. I think two things have kind
of become a little overstated here. One is that Simmons's

(28:51):
value is so depressed now, No, not really. Nothing that
happened in the playoffs was new. It was it was
underscored and in and and amplified by some of the
situations and especially the past past up dunk and all that.
But like we already knew, Ben Simmons doesn't want to shoot,
isn't isn't a shooter, isn't a big score, doesn't want

(29:12):
to get foul like, there's nothing that we learned new
about him except that it was slightly at a higher level.
The fact is, this is a guy who in the
recent past has been All NBA and has been part
of one of the top teams in the NBA. And
if you're All NBA, you're top fifteen for that season.
Right now, I think there are you know, the rankings
that you know I guess I did, or that anybody

(29:32):
else did. I think he's down a little maybe the
twenties or thirties. He's got top fifteen caliber talents, top
twenty talent for sure. Everybody around the league knows that
they know, and they already know what his deficiencies were too.
So the value is still there. You may not feel
you have to pay as much because of of the
bad impression he left a few months ago, but he's

(29:53):
still really incredibly a valuable player who defense five positions,
is gonna be an annual Defensive Player of the Year candidate,
and it's a great passer and a six ten. Like,
the value still there. The other piece of conventional wisdom
I would slap back at is just well, the Sixers
overplayed their hand. The Sixers are doing what you're supposed
to do, wait for the best possible deal. Have they
tried to to um juice the offers and maybe held

(30:17):
out for too much. Yeah, that's possible, But that for
decades in Boston and and at some point some team
will be needy enough or maybe even desperate enough to
pull the trigger and give the Sixers what they want.
So I don't think either of those two pieces of
conventional wisdom are all that valuable. The market is going

(30:38):
to dictate what Simmons's value is and what the what
the Sixers get, and it's going to be based on
the fact that Ben Simmons is still an incredibly unique
and incredibly talented player who in a different environment I
think it was probably going to reach even even greater heights.
And the Sixers know that the team that's gonna acquire
him knows that those teams, as much as Darryl Moray
maybe asking for too much, those teams are obviously offering

(30:59):
too little. Somewhere along the way here, you know they're
they're all gonna beet in the middle, and there's gonna
be good offers, especially once we start seeing games played
and we start seeing teams that expected to do well
the seasons struggle because that's always gonna happen. Someone's going
to fall in their face in November and a couple
of teams are gonna say, you know what, time to
pull the trigger on a deal for Simmons. I had

(31:20):
a couple of executives this week. Compares Simmons to a
better version of Draymond Green, which is the kind of
comp that's been out there for a while. And even
if that is what you believe Simmons to be, that's
a pretty bleep and good player like that Straightmond Green
was a key key player in multiple championship teams in
Golden State, one of the best defensive players at his position.

(31:41):
So I'd want that kind of player on my roster,
no question about it. Um, let's talk about the team
that you hate, the Utah Jazz. You are down on
the Jazz as not down? Yeah, I say that kind
of jokingly, but I'm a little after last season. I'm
own ish on the Jazz like I had been and

(32:04):
continue to be a staunch defender of Donovan Mitchell. Um.
We all remember the shock interview with Shack Basically, Sad,
I don't think you're the guy one of My consistent
retorts to that was that Donovan Mitchell never really had
a team around him that you expected to be championship level.

(32:24):
The Bubble year, Conley was out for parts of it,
weird year whatever, bog Donovic was out, but that was
out for the entirety of the Bubble um. But this
past season they had the pieces. And yes, Connley had
injury issues early in that Clipper series, but oh, by
the way, so didn't the Clippers, you know, being down

(32:45):
Kawhi Leonard. Uh. Ah. This is a big year for
the Jazz. Like, they bring back most of their roster. Uh,
they make some additions. Rudy Gay is now with them,
Usan Whiteside is now with them. Uh. Mike Conley comes
back on a new contract. Donovan Mitchell is a year older,
Rudy Gobert is still there. But Danovich, all those guys,

(33:08):
the key guys are still in Utah. This is the
year they got to get to the finals. To me,
like anything short of the finals for the Utah Jazz
would be a disappointment. They are a on the surface,
a complete team. Jordan Clarkson ranning sixth man, Joe Angles
right behind him, Um Gobert whatever you think of him,
most dominant defensive player in this game. Mitchell another year

(33:29):
to prove he is at the highest level. But I
just every time I start thinking about the Jazz as
a title contender, I kind of flashed back to the
end of last season when a Clippers team down Kawhi
Leonard beat them, and that just doesn't sit well with me.
What about you, so one, I think you've you've put
the bar a little too high for them. I think

(33:50):
a trip to the conference finals would be a pretty
big achievement for them because they haven't been there in
a thousand years. Um, I don't think it's finals or bust.
And I also think that when your best player is,
you know, as young as Donovan Mitchell is, it's it's
too soon to start talking about this is a this
is a failure, or they they've or they're a disappointment,
especially when you're in a conference that's pretty tough. And

(34:13):
I think as as at the top has a lot
of parody right now, as we were talking about earlier,
I'm not gonna asterisk the Jazz is postseason last year,
but I will just say Donovan Mitchell was playing on
that bad ankle Mike Conley had the hamstring. Neither them
were healthy in the playoffs. We didn't really get the
fairest look and granted that pales in comparison to the
Clippers losing Kawai. Letard correct, I I give you that

(34:39):
for sure. That's a but Howard, that's like other than that,
Mrs Lincoln, how was the play like? That's the top
five NBA player that was down. I'm just saying, if
we're going to talk about them being disappointment, I want
to see them at full strength and fall on their
face and then say, oh, okay, they fell short at
full strength, they were not themselves. And the thing it

(35:00):
is like, yes, Kauai is a bigger loss than than
to the Clippers than the injuries of to Mitchell and Connie.
But the Jazz are more of an ensemble cast. They're not.
They don't have a Kawhi Leonard, Paul George once to punch,
or a Lebron and a d want to punch. They've
got Donov Mitchell, who's really really good but not a
perennial MVP candidate. They got Mike Conley, who is really

(35:21):
really good but is towards the twilight of his career,
and they got Rudy Gobert, who is a phenomenal defender,
but he's not the guy who you build a team
around offensively. He's not an offensive superstar, which is what
we usually see on championship level teams. They're an ensemble cast.
They're really great at what they do. They don't have
the star power that typically lead you deep in the
playoffs in this league. So I'm not ready in a

(35:42):
season where they were missing their backcourt or didn't have
their backcourt fully healthy to lay judgment. Let me just
say this too, because you were very high on the
Chess last season, Chris and and and and and rightfully so,
so to remind people they had uh there were number
one and wins. They had the number three defense and

(36:03):
defensive the efficiency number four an offensive efficiency, so top
four in both offense and defensive efficiency. They were number
four in true shooting percentage, number four and three point percentage,
and number one and three pointers made. They're a great
defensive team that gets the most out of their offense
despite not having superstar level talent outside of Donovan Mitchell.

(36:23):
From an offensive standpoint, they shoot a ton of threes.
They make a ton of threes. There's the outline of
a really really good team here. But they have to
have everybody at full strength, I think, to get all
the way and to beat teams with bigger star power.
So if they're not healthy, no, they're not gonna knock
off a Lebron team or the Clippers. Um, and they

(36:44):
just they need things to go exactly right for them.
They don't have much room for error because Donovan Mitchell
doesn't have a true costar. He doesn't And look, Mitchell
did about as much as you can in the final
two games of that series. Games was at six when
they lost it, Um, that was what do you have?

(37:05):
Thirty nine points in that game? He was great in
that one. Mike Conley was remarkably bad in that last
gagle in one for eight from the floor, so a
lot of the spotlight goes on him. I think the
Jazz is still missing wing defenders. I think that's critical
um for any team, but especially in the Western Conference.
You don't have Kauai with the Clippers this year, but
Paul George is still there. Lebron of course on the

(37:27):
wing in l A. Royce O'Neil is pretty good, but
you need something more than that, and the Jazz didn't
go out and get that. Ruby Gays fine, but he's
not that guy for that team. That that that worries
me a little bit. Um. They gave up a lot
of points in those final two games of that series.
Is a team that was a top defensive team for
most of the year and what was it, like a
hundred nineteen in Game five, hundred and thirty nine something

(37:50):
like that in Game six, Like a lot of points there. Uh,
gotta do bad in that in the playoffs, that's for sure.
So those defensively is where I have most of my
concerns with the Jazz team. I I do think Connley
still got another really good year left in him, and
as you pointed out last last postseason, he was impacted
by the hamstring issues. But they've got to get better defensively.

(38:12):
If they're not tight in the playoffs, they're not gonna
have a chance against those top tier teams. I will
just say this though, too. Let's say the Lakers stumble somehow,
whatever happens. If it's not the Lakers coming out of
the West, are the Jazz really any less likely than
the next tier Phoenix, Denver Clippers, Dallas Portland, I guess

(38:33):
if you want to throw them into the conversation, like
if you took the Lakers out of the equation that
the Lakers of something bad happens to them, someone gets hurt,
the Westbrook thing blows up in their face, something whatever,
whatever their worst case scenarios are the Are the Jazz
any less likely to emerge than the rest of that group?
Uh No, I think they've got the talent and they
have now gotten to that precipice of the summit where

(38:54):
you know, you think the next step is to get
there to the Conference Wilds or to the NBA Models.
I just I'm just looking that, like last year was
a disappointment. The previous years you can kind of excuse
a lot of it away, But that was a two
two series. When Kawuhi Leonard went down, they lost the
next two, including one that one at home Game five,
which you know was was pretty brutal. So I'm I

(39:19):
have I have some back in my head concerns about
the Utah Jazz going into this season. Lastly, Howard, I
guess we should touch on Kyrie Brooklyn. We mentioned Andrew Wiggins.
He got decided to get vaccinated. I'm sure money played
a role in that. His teammates. I don't know if
they pressed him. Draymond Green said he wouldn't, but you've
got other guys on that team that are very pro vaccination,

(39:39):
led by Steph Curry for that matter. Whatever the reason was,
he decided to get vaccinated. So the Warriors are whole
at this point going into the season. As we record
this late afternoon on Monday, we have no idea what
Kyrie's situation is, and the Nets are I think they're
back in Brooklyn now. Um, they have an exhibition game

(40:00):
over the weekend at the Barclays Center, and it's still
up in the air. I mean, I know Steve Nash
kind of gets asked about it at every media availability.
He's not answering. So I don't know if Kyrie got
back to there, but you would think, Howard, that if
he did, the Nets would want that out there. They'd
be quick to point put that out. I'm just gonna
operate now under the assumption that Kyrie is not vaccinated,

(40:23):
and that as we record this again a month afternoon,
it looks like a huge problem for Brooklyn. Every day
that he's not there is a problem. And you know,
let's not forget that. Last season, of course, they're big
three barely played together, and we can talk about their
talents all we want, and we talked about how overwhelming
it is and how they might be one of the
greatest offensive teams we've ever seen put together. But Kyrie Irving,

(40:48):
James Harden, Kevin Durant still need to play together and
established some sort of chemistry. There were times they look
spectacular together, but they just weren't together that much last season.
And now he can't even practice every day with them
when they're in Brooklyn. He can't play in home games,
like you know, I mean the practice thing I think

(41:09):
is a little bit vague because I'm not sure like
it's the same are the same rules and the law
that New York past I'm not sure either. It's the
Barclays Center is Center New York right that is under
the maybe not the practice facility. The practice facility is
is I guess different, but still, um, if you can't
play in home exhibition games, if he you know, couldn't

(41:29):
be a media day, every day that he is not
around his team is a day that they're feeling this
this awkwardness, this strain, and they need time together, they
need practice together, need games together. Let's just assume that
he is he is able to practice. That's probably the case. Um,
but it you're a piece, is a piece of your
your team is missing any really important piece. So I

(41:51):
do think that has an impact on chemistry. It's certainly
gonna have an impact I would think on wins at
some point during the season. If he's not playing in
those games, it's got to be a little bit of
a strain when everybody else on the team, to our knowledge,
is vaccinated and they're saying, come on, man, get with
the program, like what are you doing? And I think

(42:11):
that you know on some level. You know, Look, we
heard a lot of players say a lot of I
think really silly things, frankly last week, and silly is
being charitable? Um in support of Andrew Wigans last week,
or in support of what Draymond Green said about Andrew
Wiggins about how he didn't want to pressure, I didn't
really get that either. I mean, like, you're watching you
have a pregnancy analogy that didn't make a lot of sense. No,
it made no it made no sense at all. This

(42:33):
is about public health. This is about not putting each
other at risk. This is not about putting each other's
families at risks. All this stuff. Whatever players might feel
about not wanting to pressure each other, and there's some
truth to that. You're you're in the locker room together. UM,
you don't want to. Um. You want to respect the
the the feelings of privacy, the beliefs whatever of your teammates. Fine,
but at a some point it's impacting you. It's impacting

(42:54):
the ability for you to win games. It's impacting the
chemistry of your team that they can't feel that tolerant
of it. At some point this has got to be
bothering them because it's it's handcapping, handicapping all of them
in terms of their ability to to be as successful
as possible this season. So one thing, you know, one
thing that struck me, Howard. You know, there's a lot

(43:15):
of chatter about the contract extensions of James Harden and
Kyrie Irving. Of course, if you're the Nets, you know
you want James Harden locked up for the foreseeable future.
It might not make as much financial sense for Harden
to do it now for CBA reasons, But if you're
the Nets, full max, whatever you want, I'm kind of
struggling wondering why the Nets are offering Kyrie Irving a
contract extension right now, Like, it's not It's not like

(43:40):
the Nets gave up a bunch of assets for Kyrie Irving.
They're not in the same position. That's say the Clippers
were last summer with Kawhi Letter, where they could not
afford to let him go regardless of the state of
his knee. They had to give Kawhi Letter whatever contract
he wanted. Uh, if you're Brooklyn, why wouldn't you just

(44:06):
play out this season with Kyrie? I mean, worst case scenario,
Kyrie opts out at the end of next season and
he leaves, goes somewhere else not guaranteed either he that's
you know, the Nets, he chose them, They're in his back.
He already wants to play there. He wants to play
with Kevin Durant. But let's say opts out and walks
away a Kevin Durant, James Harden, Joe Harris, whatever filler

(44:30):
around them type. Team is still the favorite to win
the East. You're talking about two top five guys to
m v PS, two guys who this year. It's not
only possible, but probable that they could be battling it
out for M v P and and you take the
Kyrie stuff away? I mean, is that not should that
not enter the equation? Like if Kyrie has a successful

(44:53):
year in Brooklyn? Okay, if if if this all goes away,
gets vaccinated, um, he leads them to a championship, plays
well in finals, all that stuff, he's capable of great
pay him, But paying him right now seems like kind
of a risk, doesn't it? Am I missing something like,
isn't it a bit risky to kind of hand this
guy an extra three years on his contract when you

(45:13):
at this point, I have no idea if he's gonna
want to play in half the games this season? Yeah? Yeah,
I mean I I I'd like to to push back
and have a vigorous debate with you and say no,
you've got to invest when you can and kyr iring.
But the combination of the vaccine hold out and that
jeopardizing his ability to play in all A two this season,

(45:36):
to say nothing of what it might imply for the
following season. We don't know where the world will be then, right,
we don't know where where the state of the state
of the pandemic will be. We don't know what the
state of these laws that are on the books in
New York and San Francisco will be. We don't know
if those laws might extend to other cities too, and
if they might start imposing it on visiting players as
well as as UH players for the for the teams

(45:56):
that are based based there um. Who knows where any
of that's going. But it just does a matter of
team building and deciding who is the the core of
our team for the next three to five years. It's
a risk, and it's on top of the risk that
already existed. Where Kyrie has always been a guy who
gets injured a lot. Kyrie is, you know, obviously a

(46:18):
bit uh of a of a different personality sometimes just
bails out for a little while. He's obviously had some
burn bridges in previous places, Like there's all these other
things you already have to worry about with him. And
so if you're Shawn Marks, if you're the Nets, if
you're deciding how to invest your millions, your tens of
millions for of cap room for the next few years,
certainly there's a risk built in. I would guess, or

(46:39):
I would just say this like no, they didn't trade
a bunch to get him. They signed him with cap room.
But I guess you could still fall back on the
principle of in the NBA you always protect a valuable asset.
He's still not even thirty yet. He's an incredible talent,
and maybe you lock him up if you can do
it at a reasonable enough number. But but I mean, look,
he's gonna he's not gonna take reasonable number. It's max.

(47:03):
It's max or nothing. But you if you lock him up,
you're preserving some ability to say, if it doesn't work
out here long term, we can flip him for something else.
But the problem is, yeah, because he's automatically gonna be
a MAX guy and was never going to sign anything
less than that, you might put yourself in a position
that the Wizards were in with with John Wall or

(47:24):
with Westbrook or other situations where you've you've got a
guy who's really, really good. But it's just hard to
move a four guy making million, especially if there are
some asterisks by his name. So look, I'm just saying
like there's no I mean, yes, Kyrie could walk. That's
the downside in not extending him right now. But if
he plays great. The Nets will still be in position

(47:46):
to offer him the most money and the maximum number
of years, so you're still in an advantageous true position. Look,
if it was just Kevin Durant, you do everything you
can to sign Kyrie Irving, Damn the consequences, you know, whatever,
whatever risk you may be taking. But the fact that
it's Kevin Rent and James Harden, Kevin Durant still in
his prime, James Harden still in his prime. Both these
guys still great players who are better than any twosome

(48:08):
right now in the NBA. With apologies to Lebron and
A d and and whoever else is out there, Like
these these guys are great. Uh, I think I'd be
more cautious before I go all in on Kyrie Irvan.
That's just me, But look, absolutely and I will. It
just reminded me of this that when they at the

(48:29):
moment that the Nets acquired hardened and I was wondering
if it was if this was just too much Harden
and Durant and Kyrie. A lot of guys need the
bah bah blah blah blah, the usual stuff. Did they
really need to make that one more move when they
had to really elite offensive players. And I asked Sean
Marks on that zoom presser that day, was there at
least some pieceless because I remember this is right after

(48:50):
Kyrie had ducked out for whatever couple of weeks. I said,
was there any piece of this word? It was like
a little bit of a hedge against whether you know
Kyrie is gonna be around. Sean Marks said, no, no no,
of course not. We just wanted James Harden. We want
all three of them. Okay, fine, but long term and
where they're sitting right now with the vaccine hold out
and everything else, you're seeing just how valuable that other
piece of it is. Like, Okay, if you lose one,

(49:13):
you still have to And Kyrie was the one that
you always had to be the most concerned about because
he's just a volatile individual. And so yeah, they can
afford to let him walk as long as they've got
Hardened and Durant, and as long as Durant stays healthy.
And you've got the NBA's best three point shooter, like
they're like Joe Harris, Yeah, is great to the last

(49:34):
three years led the NBA and three point shooting. So
I think you you got some You're in a favorable position.
If you're Brokelyn Howard good stuff man, look forward to
your next episode on Friday. You just have to stay
subscribed to this feed for that and when we come back, Shack, right,

(50:00):
Shaquille O'Neil is here. Basketball Hall of Famer t NT
Analysts Foundation is working with Icy Hot on comeback courts
and initiative that will refurbish basketball courts in underserved communities,
and Shack joins me on the show Shock. I was
looking doing our preview issue this week. Nicole Yoki three
inning m v P Joel Embiid maybe a front runner

(50:22):
for m v P Rudy Gobert Defensive Player of the Year.
It's the league man that got smaller kind of after
you retired or trend in that direction. Are big men
making a comeback? Big men definitely are making a comeback. Uh,
you know, especially on the offensive end. You know for
a couple of years that just pick pop run screen,

(50:44):
a role, rebound outlet, and that nobody really had a
guy that they can go to. You know. The good
thing about your kitch is that even though he's seven foot,
you can still play out on the wing, uh point guard.
So that they're coming back, but they're not the traditional
back to the besket being man. You know the game,

(51:06):
you know the game has changed. I see it all
the time. I think it's something Charles and I have
to learn how to adapt it because we hate watching it.
I hate seeing a guy seven ft with a guy
six nine on them and you want to pick and pop.
But you know, I goes. Did you hear Joel and
Beat at media Day said he's gonna shoot more threes

(51:27):
this season? Good for him? Good for him? H I
hope it works for him, But you know, when you're
telling it as a great player, it's only two lists
you can be on them, so good luck with that.
And especially when you play against the teams that are
more time to you, like Brooklyn and Milwaukee. You know,

(51:48):
if you're hot, it works, But if you're not hot,
what's your go to plan? MH. And he's such a
dominant guy too on the low post, at least in
this generation. I wouldn't use I wouldn't use the D word.
He's pretty good, really good, pretty good, but I would not,
but I would not use the D word. Should be

(52:11):
reserved for a select few, right exactly. Um, And we've
got a lot of questions, as you would figure about
Ben Simmons. Dr River has got a lot of questions
about Ben Simmons. What's been your kind of takeaway from
watching that situation unfold. I don't know why he's upset.
You know, of course, you know there's there's bashing, there's facts.

(52:36):
Everything everybody's been saying has been facts. Especially with the
amount of money that you're making two hundred millions. You're
a superstar in playoffs. You have to step up. That's
the name of the game. They you step up in Philly.
They you know, the way they're used to Ivanson, Dr J. Berkley,
They expect you to step up. The whole world scene.

(52:59):
The man terrified to play in the fourth quarter in
crunch time, he's going to the whole. He has Trey
Young on him. All you gotta do is you go
up and dunk it or laid out the glass. But no,
what does he do? He dribbles under the basket and
pass it to somebody else. The process has run his course.
So again, I don't know why he's upset. I think

(53:20):
he has bad advice in his corner. Like I always
had a couple of people saying, hey, yeah, you average eight,
but you're you stink. You're you're shooting forty percent from
the fifth that I get to the playoffs. You don't
hit the shot you need it. You know, you don't
make the right right place. You stink. You're walking around
with rap albums and commercials, but you stink. If you

(53:41):
ever want to win championships, you have to turn it up.
I had people to tell me that, so obviously you
don't have nobody telling him. You know what's really going on.
And I said this, and understand by what I say.
You want to be a good player, you want to
be a great player, or you want to be the
best ever. Got your two hundred million, you got your
ack his girlfriend, and if you know this is what

(54:02):
you want, cool with me. I understand. But you know
us other people, Iverson's and Dr James and Baraka, we
wanted to go to the next level and we did
whatever it takes. Work on your game, don't don't show
us tweets of you hitting jumpers and on the Instagram.
And then when you get to the four quarter, don't shoot.
So me personally, I don't know why he's mad. And

(54:24):
then the second question, I have is okay, you want
to be traded. Who's gonna take you. Who's gonna take it?
Nobody's nobody's giving up good pieces for a guy that
don't want to shoot in the fourth quarter. I'm not
I'm not taking that two hundred million dollars salary. I'm
not taking it. So you know, no, you're not coming
to camp and you want to be traded. But you know,

(54:46):
a good team Philadelphia, they're gonna want to get good
pieces for you. And I'm not giving up a a
piece that's that can shoot better than you and it's
that's more aggressive to you on the fourth quarter. So
he's probably gonna have to go back to Philly or
just sit out of here. That fear that you see
in him and so many others seeing him as a player,

(55:10):
do you see that as being fixable? Yeah, something, it's something.
It's something you have to go through. Like phil always
used to say, I'm not building you out. I'm not
bailing you out. I know you're two for the fourteen
right now, but guess what, you don't make them, we
don't win. That's all he said. He said, We're coming
to you every time. I know that Hacken shock and

(55:32):
I'm not bailing you up, not bailing out putting in
John Sally, you know, or if he did bail me out,
he would shoot me. Ut, come on, man, just say
what we talked about. Drinks with water, go back out there.
I need you to knock him down. So yeah, you
just have to You just have to go through it,
and you have to develop your own confidence or you

(55:52):
have to not care. I didn't care that I didn't
miss and what I and and you know, don't you
know take that the wrong way? I shot him, I
missing the household. I'm pissed. Now I gotta go get
this next one right. So you know I can't go
oh miss uh here you should? You should like luckily
I had another great weapon to you know, pull me

(56:15):
out what I did miss. But you still gotta be aggressive,
your honest. It's a perfect example. He's not a great
freak there. Shoot, what do you do? Stayed aggressive every
time he shot air balls in the playoffs? What do
you do? Came back to the next play and and
and just so it's something you gotta go through. But
you must have rolled your eyes a little bit watching
Doc Rivers kind of try to explain that he wasn't

(56:36):
criticizing Ben Simmons last year when he said, you know,
I mean like, can you imagine Phil Jackson, you know,
kind of saying trying to soften that up. Well, you
know there's there's criticist. Like my mother told me one
time before you get mad Son, honeybody see if there
is in the truth in the criticism. Right. Oh, shots

(56:59):
a great play it, but it missed a lot of
free though. I can't get mad at that. I can't
right that. That's that's the truth. So can you win
with Ben Simmons? No, you can't. So you know, Ben's
a little upset. If I'm upset, I'm working on my
game on something or I'm coming in me Perry Rodgers

(57:20):
meet Danny McLaughlan professionally. Okay, you don't think you can
win with me? I understand. I don't want to be
here that let's not make this a whole media thing
that's handled the business right now, I would like to
be traded. I'm not gonna disrespect you all. I hope
you don't disrespect me, you know, because you still have
to maintain some sort of professionalism. So, um, one question

(57:46):
for you on your former team the Lakers. You know,
you can probably make an argument Shack that last season
a D doesn't get hurt, they get to the finals,
and who knows what happens. There kind of three options
they had. One bring the band back to go get
Buddy Yield, which seemed like it was on the table,
and three do the Westbrook stuff and shape things up
that way. What do you make of the direction they

(58:09):
chose with Russell Westbrook? I like it because you've got
another guy that's really a great prayer, doesn't get the
crazy deserve, and he's hungry. Now. This is his opportunity
to get the monkey off his back, the opportunity. So
they're gonna have two problems, not really problems. They're gonna
have to manage their egos and they're gonna have to

(58:30):
stay healthy. They do that, no team's gonna beat them.
And I said, playing the simple age. Age doesn't matter
in this era. Let me tell you why. In the
old era it was a physical game. Game is not
physical game? Is every teams running the same play come
down picking pop Lebrown will pay three more years in

(58:51):
these eighteen points the next two years to pass up
Karema Dojibar. He will do that you don't get tired
from running and jumping. You get tired from banging, running
and jumping, plus the flagrant foul. That's what gets you tired.
But so you know, if everybody stastes healthy, they could
manage their egos and just focus on the the the
task at hand. Only team I see them messing around

(59:16):
with them is Brooklyn. But with all the unrest going
on in Brooklyn, I don't I don't know what's gonna
happen with them. Yeah too, the story altogether. You are
working with Icy Hot on comeback courts. You're refurbishing basketball
courts in select communities. Tell me what you're you're doing
and why you decided to do it. Because when I

(59:37):
was young, always had the opportunity to go outside and play.
I think a lot of kids need to go outside
and play. I don't want the next Westbrook Durant Kobe
to be in the car and go to a court
and be like, now, I'm not gonna play to that,
right Because when I live on a military basis, by course,
we're immaculate lines, paved nets like at the chain and

(01:00:02):
nets to mix up, they send somebody from engineering to
come fix it. I want these kids that you know
have had the same thing. I'm doing it in northern
New Jersey because that's where I'm from. That's where I
started playing basketball in Las Vegas. I live here in
Las Vegas. A pet peeple mine is riding by a court.
It's so simple to fix up paint lines, backboard and net.

(01:00:23):
That's anybody can do it. But if they don't do it,
I'll do it. It Just it saddens me to rune
by and also get jealous because you look at all
these soccer fields and softball fields. They got the lights,
they got the bleachers, but my courts, my courts, they
really look at the gus. So you know, I see
I and I were gonna team up and uh, like

(01:00:45):
I said, um doing something on Twitch October eighteenth to
five pm, I ce I NBA two Caves. Canna be
a charity game awareness, you know, and you know we
just want to you know, ask for people's helps and
it's event that you don't want to miss. We'll have
a lot of E sports celebrities and you know we're
gonna be playing for a great cause, no doubt, great cause,

(01:01:07):
great work by you appreciate your time and always Uh.
I've always told one of my favorite ball boys stories
for my days back in the Celtics. Shock is the
day you and I think it was your security man
gave me a wedgie in uh, in the Celtics visiting
locker room. I have an idea what you're talking about
that is accurate. Somebody told you that I was talking
ship about you, which I wasn't, and uh, you cornered

(01:01:29):
me and I got lifted up. I'm going to plead
the fifth because I have that this is not this
is the first person account. First person account, you know
what I'm just saying. I'm just saying I got to
look at my documents to see if the statue of
limitation based on these documents and statue, I'm not allowed

(01:01:49):
to talk about the incident that question, sir shot. Great
to talk to you, man, I hope to see you soon.
The candle Well d nd ptom